Any Sane Man Will Accept Krishna Consciousness

"Any Sane Man Will Accept KC"

August 13, 1973

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Professor: How many levels of initiation do you have?Prabhupada: Two.Professor: Two. The first...Prabhupada: First initiation, experimental...Professor: Yes.Prabhupada: Chanting Hare Krsna maha-mantra. Then, as he practices, becomes more purified, then second initiation. Gayatri. Gayatri-mantra. But the first initiation, according to Jiva Gosvami, that is sufficient. Chanting Hare Krsna mantra, that is sufficient. But still, to purify them more, the second initiation, Gayatri, is given. So we are creating brahmanas in the western countries. Yes.Professor: Yes. I know. Don't you think it's against the dharma-sastra?Prabhupada: No.Professor: No. Tell me why?Prabhupada: Because in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. There is nothing, such thing as janma.Professor: Oh. Very nice.Prabhupada: And another place, Bhagavatam, there is statement of Narada, advising Maharaja Yudhisthira that yasya yal laksanam proktam pumso varnabhivyanjakam. There are symptoms, brahmana system, samo damas tapah saucam ksantir arjavam [Bg. 18.42]. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Yasya yal laksanam proktam pumso varnabhivyanjakam, abhivyanjakam varna. Yad anyatrapi drsyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiset [SB 7.11.35]. This is the injunction of Narada, "The symptoms, brahminical symptoms, if it is found in the person who is born in a sudra family, he should be accepted as brahmana. And if the sudra symptoms are visible in a person born in a brahmana family, he should be accepted as sudra." And in the Jabala Upanisad, the Satyakama Jabala... So Satyakama was born of a maidservant, but he wanted to become brahmana. So he went to Gautama Muni: "Sir, make your disciple." In those days, Vaidic brahminical culture, without becoming brahmana, he cannot be initiated. Initiation means to make one brahmana. So, according to our Gosvami process, Sanatana Gosvami, he has given us the book, Hari-bhakti-vilasa. In that book he has written,

yatha kancanatam yati
kamsyam rasa-vidhanatah
tatha diksa-vidhanena
dvijatvam jayate nrnam

Nrnam: "Of all human beings, by initiation, he becomes a dvija." So we follow that principle. And besides that, Caitanya Mahaprabhu ordered that bharata-bhumite... You understand little Bengali?Professor: No, Bengali, no, I don't. But it doesn't matter.Prabhupada: Bharata-bhumite manusya-janma haila yara [Cc. Adi 9.41]. It is almost Sanskrit. "Anyone who has taken birth as human being in the land of Bharatavarsa," janma sarthaka kari, "making his life successful," kara para-upakara. Para-upakara. Para-upakara means everyone is in slumber and considering himself that he is body, like cats and dogs. Therefore, they should be raised to the spiritual consciousness that "You are not cats and dogs. You are Brahman." Just realize "aham brahmasmi." This is para-upakara. So we are doing that. We are awakening everyone. Uttisthatah jagratah prapta-varam nibodhata: "You have got now human being form of life. Now get up and make your life successful by spiritual realization." This is our message. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. By spiritual realization everyone will become happy. Without spiritual realization, nobody can become happy. This is our mission.Professor: Thank you.Prabhupada: So Indian caste brahmanas, they are against me, against me. They come to fight with me that I am spoiling Hindu religion.Professor: (laughs) Well, you are a brahmana yourself.Prabhupada: Yes. I am now sannyasi.Hamsaduta: This is a statement of account from the Central Bank of India. It just arrived from London.Prabhupada: Oh. (pause, opens letter) Any other letter? No.Hamsaduta: That's all. No.Prabhupada: So just see how we have translated. You are Sanskrit scholar.Professor: You know the Kali-santarana Upanisad?Prabhupada: Kali-santarana Upanisad. Yes.Professor: Yes, I have made a translation of it into French. It's under print now at the present.Prabhupada: Kali-santarana Upanisad? That is Hare Krsna mantra.Professor: Yeah, that the Hare Krsna mantra. That's the...Yogesvara: You mentioned that to Professor Stahl in your correspondences.Prabhupada: Yes.Yogesvara: You mentioned that in the Kali-santarana Upanisad the Hare Krsna mantra is specifically recommended to counteract the contamination.Prabhupada: Now it is translated by you.Professor: Yeah.Yogesvara: In French?Professor: In French, yes. I'll send you a copy when, when it's out of the press. It is not a fact at present. Well, I thank you very much for being kind enough...Yogesvara: If you have questions, you shouldn't feel shy. You can ask whatever you want.Professor: No, why not?Prabhupada: No. He has already questioned once, that I am making brahmana -- whether it is according to sastra?Professor: That's the usual question. That's not the first time this question has been asked to you.Prabhupada: No, it is... We do not do anything which is not in sastra. So this Jabala Upanisad, this Satyakama Jabala, he went to Gautama Muni for initiation. So Gautama Muni asked him, "Who is your father?" He replied that he did not know. "So ask your mother." The mother was asked also. She said, "No, I do not know." He came to Gautama Muni and said that, "My father's name is neither known to my mother nor to me."Professor: Yes, yes. I know this story.Prabhupada: Then he accepted that "You are a brahmana," because he is talking truth.Professor: The truth, satyam.Prabhupada: That is the sign.Professor: The sign. It's a well-known story.Prabhupada: Therefore, by birth, a brahmana is not made. By character.Professor: Yes, I agree with that. And what about girls? Do you initiate girls? Or not?Prabhupada: Eh?Professor: Do you initiate girls?Prabhupada: Oh, yes. So many girls. Striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te 'pi yanti param gatim.Professor: That's...Prabhupada: Find out this verse, mam hi partha vyapasritya. Give him, Pandita Mahasaya.

mam hi partha vyapasritya
ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah
striyo vaisyas tatha sudras
te 'pi yanti param gatim
 [Bg. 9.32]

Professor: Just like Gargi and... Yes.Prabhupada: Yes. Gargi. Etad viditva yah prayati sa brahmanah.Yogesvara: It's rather remarkable if one takes into account the fact that most of us come from backgrounds which had nothing whatsoever to do with the standards of brahminical culture.Professor: That's right. Yes, that's...Yogesvara: We were, we were steeped in all kinds of bad habits.Prabhupada: No, according to Vedic injunction, the Westerners are mlecchas, yavanas. You know better than me.Professor: Yes.Prabhupada: So papa-yoni. And therefore, Krsna says... What does He say?Pradyumna:

mam hi partha vyapasritya
ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah
striyo vaisyas tatha sudras
te 'pi yanti param gatim
 [Bg. 9.32]

"O son of Prtha, those who take shelter in Me, although they be of lower birth, women, vaisyas, merchants, as well as sudras, or workers, can approach the supreme destination."Professor: Yes.Prabhupada: In another place, in Srimad-Bhagavatam, I think Second, Second Canto... Find out this verse: kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah ye 'nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah [SB 2.4.18].Professor: This one?Devotee: Yes.Prabhupada: Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa...Pradyumna: We publish these with nice indices.Professor: Oh, yes, yes. It is so strange to have an index. Yes.Prabhupada: Index, there is.Professor: Sloka-suci. Yes, there is index. Yes.Prabhupada: Yes.Pradyumna: Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah ye 'nye ca papa...Prabhupada: The name, yavana, is there.Pradyumna: ...yad-apasrayasrayah sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah. Translation: "Kirata, Huna, Andhra, Pulinda, Pulkasa, Abhira, Sumbha, Yavana, and the Khasa races, and even others, who are addicted to sinful acts, can be purified by taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord due to His being the Supreme Power. I beg to offer my respectful obeisances unto Him."Prabhupada: What is the purport?Pradyumna: Uh. "Kirata. A province of old Bharatavarsa mentioned in the Bhisma-parva of the Mahabharata. Generally the Kiratas are known as the aboriginal tribes of India. And in modern days the Santal Parganas in Bihar and Chota Nagpur might comprise the old province named Kirata."Prabhupada: They're black.Pradyumna: "Huna. The area of East Germany and part of Russia is known as the province of the Hunas. Accordingly, sometimes a kind of hill tribe is known as the Hunas, the Huns."Prabhupada: Hoons.Pradyumna: "Andhra. A province in Southern India mentioned in the Bhisma-parva of Mahabharata. It is still extant under the same name. Pulinda. It is mentioned in Mahabharata, Adi 174.38, that is the inhabitants of the province of the name, Pulinda. This country was conquered by Bhimasena and Sahadeva. The Greeks are known as Pulindas, and it is mentioned in the Vana-parva of the Mahabharata that the non-Vedic race of this part of the world would rule over the world. This Pulinda province was also one of the provinces of Bharata, and the inhabitants were classified amongst the ksatriya kings. But later on, due to their giving up the brahminical culture, they were mentioned as mlecchas, just as those who are not followers of the Islamic culture are called kafirs, and those who are not followers of the Christian culture are called heathens. Abhira. This name also appears in Mahabharata, both in the Sabha-parva and the Bhisma-parva. It is mentioned that this province was situated on the River Sarasvati in Sind. The modern Sind province formerly extended on the other side of the Arabian Sea. All the inhabitants of that province were known as the Abhiras. They were under the domination of Maharaja Yudhisthira and, according to the statements of Markandeya, the mlecchas of this part of the world would also rule over Bharata. Later on, this proved to be true, as it was proved in the case of the Pulindas. On behalf of the Pulindas, Alexander the Great conquered India, and on behalf of the Abhiras, Muhammad Ghori conquered India. These Abhiras were also formerly ksatriyas within the brahminical culture, but they gave up the connection. But the ksatriyas who were afraid of Parasurama and had hidden themselves in the Caucasian hilly regions later on became known as the Abhiras, and the place they inhabited was known as Abhiradesa. Sumbha, or the..." [break]Prabhupada: One Yavana fought with him, Kalayavana.Professor: Because usually the Yavanas is considered as being Greeks.Prabhupada: Greeks.Professor: Yes.Prabhupada: Yes.Professor: Not Turks.Prabhupada: Turks and Greeks...Professor: Yes.Prabhupada: What is the mention there?Pradyumna: Turkey.Prabhupada: Hm. Then?Pradyumna: Then... "Another ..."Prabhupada: As far as I have searched out from Mahabharata... Yes.Pradyumna: "The western Yavana joined with Duryodhana in the Battle of Kuruksetra under the pressure of Karna. It is also foretold that these Yavanas, that these Yavanas also would conquer India, and it proved to be true. Khasa..." [break]Professor: Now I understand exactly what the purpose of your movement is. I just wonder if you think the Western world is ready for this message?Prabhupada: Yes, why not ready? So many young men are coming.Professor: So many, O.K., yes, but consideration of so many other people outside this temple...Prabhupada: No, any sane man will accept. This cult will not be accepted by the insane. One who is in quite order of the brain, he'll accept it. Only mudhas. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15].Professor: And in India where is your asrama or something like that?Prabhupada: My main asrama is in Vrndavana.Professor: Where?Prabhupada: Vrndavana.Professor: Oh, in Vrndavana, itself.Prabhupada: Yes. Mayapura. Lord Caitanya. And we have got branch in Calcutta, Bombay, Hyderabad. Mayapura and Vrndavana. Five, six... [break] I, I brought with me forty rupees and books. That's all.Professor: Forty rupees! That was not enough to live in Boston or in New York.Prabhupada: Yes. And now we are spending about eighty thousand dollars per month.Professor: Per month.Prabhupada: Throughout the whole world. But we are selling our books very nicely, about... How many, how much dollars?Yogesvara: How many, how many lakhs of rupees of books per month, Pradyumna?Prabhupada: No, no, daily...Professor: Lakhs of...Prabhupada: Daily we are collecting about thirty, eight hundred... In, in, in Los Angeles we collect about eight hundred dollars daily.Yogesvara: More than that.Prabhupada: More than that. Eh?Hamsaduta: I think it must be about two thousand, about twenty thousand dollars a day, through the society.Prabhupada: Yes.Professor: Just by selling books or...?Prabhupada: Yes.Yogesvara: Just by selling books.Professor: You must receive gifts as well.Prabhupada: No gifts. By selling books.Professor: Why not?Prabhupada: There are sometimes gifts.Professor: Yes.Prabhupada: Just like George Harrison has given us a house in London, Letchmore Heath. It is worth 220,000 pounds.Hamsaduta: Over a half million dollars.Professor: Accha.Prabhupada: So you can come sometimes. No you can stay there. It is very nice place. We have 17 acres of land, open, with a lake. It is a royal palace.Professor: Yes.Prabhupada: Yes. We are installing our Deity next 21st. So if you have time, I invite you. It is not far, London.Professor: London is not far. Yes.Prabhupada: Yes.Professor: The 21st of September?Prabhupada: Twenty-first of August.Professor: Oh, I see.Yogesvara: In a few days.Professor: It's a big feast.Prabhupada: So you are Sanskrit scholar. You can join with this movement and help us.Professor: Thank you.Prabhupada: Yes. Because it is worldwide movement.Professor: I cannot help you. That's, that's...Prabhupada: No, you can help us.Professor: That's very strange.Prabhupada: Some of our students are trying to learn Sanskrit. You can help them.Professor: Well, he knows very well Sanskrit. He pronounce it very well.Prabhupada: Yes. He has learned out of his own accord, without taking help from anybody.Professor: Really?Prabhupada: Yes. Whatever little help I give, that's all.Professor: He knows how to chant the Sanskrit...Prabhupada: Oh, yes.Professor: ...verse.Prabhupada: Ah, yes.Professor: So probably this comes from you.Yogesvara: But here in Paris we are also translating these books now into French.Professor: Into French?Yogesvara: Yes.Professor: Many people are able to read it in English.Yogesvara: Oh, but for those who cannot read the English, there's necessity in French.Professor: Quite. Oh, yes.Yogesvara: For example, Bhagavad-gita, we're preparing now in French.Professor: Oh? Yes.Prabhupada: Give him some prasadam.Yogesvara: In France, I believe, the only version of Bhagavad-gita that people know is Aurobindo's translation.Professor: No, there are many others.Yogesvara: Many?Professor: There are many others.Prabhupada: English?Professor: No, no. In French.Prabhupada: In French.Professor: Bhagavad-gita? Yes. I think translated I think something like ten or twelve times.Yogesvara: Ten or twelve times in French?Professor: Oh, yes.Yogesvara: He says there are ten or twelve different French translations of the Gita.Professor: Yes.Prabhupada: In English also there are...Professor: Oh, English, more than that.Prabhupada: Yes.Professor: English, more than that.Yogesvara: So now we wish to present the Bhagavad-gita As It Is.Professor: As It Is.Prabhupada: Without interpretation. And, according to the trades manager of MacMillan Company, our book is topmost selling.Professor: I see.Prabhupada: Yes. Than all other editions. Their report is. They, they print at a time fifty thousand copies. So three or four times they have already printed.Professor: Really?Prabhupada: Yes. Since last August, within one year.Professor: Wow. That's a great success.Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.Professor: That's good.Prabhupada: Now they are out of stock.Professor: Out of stock?Prabhupada: Yes.Professor: So they will print it again, no?Prabhupada: They will print it. They will supply in August or July, they said. They'll supply. So it has come out very successful. Just imagine, 200,000 copies distributed within one year.Professor: In one year. That's very good.Prabhupada: And in America, our people go to sankirtana. Many gentlemen comes down, gets down from the car, inquires, "You have got Bhaktivedanta's Bhagavad-gita As It Is?" They purchase like that. Yes. At least, they have become inquisitive on account of the word "As It Is."Professor: What?Prabhupada: "As It Is."Professor: Oh, As It Is, yes.Yogesvara: Because of the fact that our title is "Bhagavad-gita As It Is."Professor: "As It Is."Yogesvara: "As It Is." Yes.Professor: Yes.Prabhupada: Because they have read different interpretations. Now they want to read as it is.Professor: That's fine. That is fine.Prabhupada: What, what is your opinion about interpretation?Professor: Well, it's much better to have a commentary separated, not an interpretation given mixed with the translation. It is not to be...Prabhupada: It is not good. No. Yes. We cite them...Professor: It has to be different.Prabhupada: No, if you have got your own opinion, you can write your own book. But you cannot interpret on the Bhagavad-gita.Professor: Yes, that's right. You are right.Prabhupada: Then the authority of Bhagavad-gita is gone. But everyone is doing like that, even Dr. Radhakrishnan and others.Professor: Yes. I already know...Prabhupada: Yes. Even Gandhi has done.Professor: Gandhi also?Prabhupada: Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi. He has also interpreted. He has interpreted, "This body... Kuruksetra means this body."Professor: But he didn't write it...Prabhupada: Well, it is not widely read, but this has become a fashion, to give his own interpretation. Yes.Professor: Yeah, that's right, the fashion. That's the word. That's right.Prabhupada: But Krsna was not a so, I mean to say, ignorant, that He left something to be interpreted later on by another rascal. No. That was not Krsna's intention. What Krsna says, that is final. So we accept in that way. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So we appeal to the people that "You think of Krsna. You become a devotee of Krsna." All these disciples, they have been taught like that. "You offer obeisances to Krsna." Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji. "You worship Krsna." That's it. And by doing that, they are advancing. Advancing. And before me, for hundreds of years or more than that, the Bhagavad-gita was known to the European and American countries. As you say, there are so many trans...Professor: Yes.Prabhupada: But not a single soul became a devotee of Krsna. There is no history. Yes. So far we know, that by reading Bhagavad-gita, it is meant for making a person devotee of Krsna. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. But before my coming here, so many swamis came, and they preached on Bhagavad-gita, so many scholars came, but not a single soul became a pure devotee of Krsna.Professor: Yes, because other... So, for instance, you have the Ramakrishna Mission...Prabhupada: What the Ramakrishna mission has done?Professor: Yes.Prabhupada: Ramakrishna mission has done this, that they have learned to drink wine and eat meat, that's all, from the Western countries. That's all.Professor: Yes. This is so.Prabhupada: Yes. That is their contribution. And they have spoiled the Hindu culture.Professor: Oh. Yes?Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Because Vivekananda said, "Oh, what is the harm there, in eating? You can eat whatever you like. It doesn't matter in religion." It was the first. And he himself was eating anything. So all the Ramakrishna mission sannyasis still, they are eating meat, egg and everything, especially in America. Yes. Fish is no consideration. That is daily affair. And the turkey,... Yes. Instead of preaching here, they have taken the Western method. And Vivekananda's preaching is like Western missionaries-open hospitals, school...Professor: You are right, yes.Prabhupada: Yes. He had no spiritual knowledge. So therefore it has not been successful. They are preaching in the Western countries... As far I know, in America they have got ten or twelve branches. I am working for the last six years only. I have got already fifty branches. And each branch, there are devotees like them, not less than twenty-five, up to two hundred, three hundred, all dedicated souls.Professor: And what about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi?Prabhupada: I don't take account of these because they are not standard.Professor: Oh, I see.Prabhupada: They are not standard. We are following Bhagavad-gita As It Is, standard, and they have got their own manufactured way. So we don't recognize them. Our process is evam parampara praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Parampara. What Krsna said, the disciplic succession will say the same thing. But they are speaking differently. So therefore we don't take them as bona fide. They are not bona fide. And from external point of view, we have got so many literatures, so many branches, so many devotees, within six years. But they haven't got such thing. Even Ramakrishna Mission. They are working for the last eighty years. And I have worked only for six years. And my result is eighty times more than them. They also acknowledge.

 

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