Bhagavata: ... explaining to them
the glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in pure devotional service so
that they may go back to home, back to Godhead and become liberated from the
realms of birth and death in this material world.Prabhupada: Is that
alright? What he's saying. So, how to help them?Devotee: First we give them
the chanting, Srila Prabhupada.Prabhupada: Hm?Devotee: First we give
them the mah-mantra.Prabhupada: Mah-mantra, one may not
accept.Bhagavata: We have to find the ways and the means by which we can
make pure devotional service attractive to each living entity according to
his...Prabhupada: Unless one feels necessity, why they will accept your
proposal to chant Hare Krsna? How you'll make them think "Yes, it is necessity."
That is wanted. Otherwise anyone will say, some proposition, "You do this." Then
why they will accept it?Bhagavata: Hm. We have to make...Prabhupada:
Unless he feels that... That requires philosophy. If you say something dogmatic,
why they'll accept? You say that, "You chant Hare Krsna." He'll say, "I have no
interest. I have no interest, why shall I chant Hare Krsna?"Devotee: Tell
them that they are eternal spirit soul.Prabhupada: Hm?Devotee: You tell
them that you are eternal spirit soul. Tell them about the eternal spiritual
world.Prabhupada: That you have to convince. That you are eternal, but you
are falsely engaged in temporary business. That you have to tell
them.Bhagavata: We have to give them knowledge. Knowledge consists of
telling them what is the field, who is the knower of the field, and the
super-knower of the field. Once they get knowledge, knowledge is the preliminary
step to executing devotional service. Once they have knowledge then they will be
able to execute devotional service. And Rupa Goswami says that one who executes
devotional service in knowledge, increases his knowledge. Therefore the first
thing is that we should give them knowledge and knowledge means to understand
this body, the owner of the body, and the supreme owner of the body, Krsna./
Purusa prakrti caiva,/ ksetra ksetrajnam eva ca./ etad veditum icchami/ jnana
jneya ca kesava. "What is the field; what is the purusa; the enjoyer; what is
prakrti, nature; what is the ksetra the field; what is the ksetrajnor; the
knower of the field; what is knowledge and what is the end of knowledge. These
things I wish to know.Prabhupada: Very good.Bhagavata: And Krsna answers
him. He says that, ida sarira kaunteya -- "My dear Kunti, sariram, this
body, ksetrajna.. ksetrajnam...Prabhupada: Not my dear Kunti.Bhagavata:
My dear son of Kunti.Prabhupada: Yes.Bhagavata: Ksetram ity abhidhiyate;
that this body is known as the field. Etad yo vetti ta prahu ksetrajna iti
tad-vidah; that this body is known as the field and one who knows this field, he
is the knower of the field, he is the knower of the body.Prabhupada: Hm. So
how to explain, everyone is acting. How he is acting, on the field, that is
stated next verse. Field of activities. In English it is called field of
activity. That field of activity is this body. According to the body one begins
his... Just like one born in the dog's body so the dog care... They, from the
very beginning they are searching after a master. You have seen the
small?Hari-sauri: Pup.Prabhupada: Yes. They follow, some gentleman. And
because at that time it is good living, somebody takes charge, "Alright let me
take this pup." And the children also like, so he gets some shelter. So
similarly, according to different body the activities begins. Therefore body is
the field of activities. A snake, because he has got the field of activity of a
snake's body, from the very beginning he is very, very envious. The same, trying
to bite others. In this way our activities begin according to the body. And this
change of bodies take place in the lower animal life automatically, by nature's
law. Prakrte kriyamanani gunai karmani sarvasah. But when comes to the form of a
human being, on account of developed consciousness, he has got responsibility.
He has to make his choice. He is suffering in this material world changing
different types of bodies, one after another, and the propensity to lord it over
the material world is going on. Now he has to change the consciousness, whether
he wants to continue this propensity for lording over the material world, or he
wants to surrender to Krsna. This choice has to be made by the human being. If
he makes his choice after getting good education from the right source, that "I
am going on in the wrong way, by the desire to lord it over the material nature
but I am eternal servant of Krsna therefore I must surrender now. Bahuna
janmanam ante jnanavan mam... This is wisdom. And if we do not get this wisdom,
simply like animals we continue to lord it over the material nature, by
acquiring money. Dharma, artha, kama. Then we are spoiling our life. Separate
times we become religious for being promoted to higher standard of life,
economic development, big, big scheme, plans, how to make gorgeous city,
buildings, roads, cars, slaughter house, scientific, how to cut throat very
scientifically. These plans are going on. Some of them are trying to be
religious to go to the heaven because he has heard, and that's a fact also, that
heavenly planets the standard of living is more opulent, hundreds and thousands
times, the sex enjoyment, is hundred and thousand times better. So by so-called
religious functions and sacrifices, they are engaged the same, how to satisfy
the senses. The dog is also anxious to satisfy his senses. As soon as he finds a
female dog, he wants to make friendship with her and have sex. On the street,
never mind. And similarly the demigods they are also engaged in the same
business. In a different standard only. The business is the same.
Ahara-nidr-bhayam etam. So if one wants to continue this business then he'll
continue this material body and if he wants to stop this business, come to his
original position, then he makes real progress. But nobody is interested in
advancement of spiritual life. Generally they take to religion, religiosity, for
material happiness. Artho 'rhati. I am distressed, I have no money, or I am
suffering from some disease; you'll find all these. So all of them go to the
sadhus only for this purpose. Sir, I am suffering from some disease, so without
going to the doctor, and saving so much money, let me pay hundred rupees to the
sadhu and he'll give me his blessings. So I will save thousands of rupees, for
curing the disease. For this purpose they go to sadhu. Nobody goes to sadhu for
going back to home back to godhead. It is only (material) proposition. Otherwise
the so-called yogis, sadhus, swamis, they are making good luck business simply
by promising that you'll get this material power. This Mahesh Yogi he says that,
what is his philosophy?Harikesa: He says that if you renounce now, you can
enjoy later. That if you take some austerity now, like meditation, abstaining
from certain things, that later on you can enjoy sex life unlimitedly, have
clear intelligence unlimtedly, and ultimately become the...Prabhupada: The
Mahesh Yogi, TM. Transcendental meditation. But I don't think they say that if
you undergo austerities you...Harikesa: No, that was in the beginning they
were saying...Prabhupada: Oh now he has changed!Harikesa: Now he has
changed, because it was too unpopular.Prabhupada: It is
business.Bhagavata: Rajneesh is also like that.Prabhupada:
Hm?Bhagavata: Rajneesh, same philosophy.Prabhupada: Hm. But they do not
know; na te vidu svartha-gati hi visnum; these rascals they do not know what is
the actual aim of life. They are, in the groups of ordinary men, they are doing
some business opened this transcendental TM shop, that's all. Cheating.
Cheating. All of them are are going on, cheating. Nobody knows the real interest
is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Nobody knows. Ask any so-called sadhu,
yogi, swami -- they do not know. They read Bhagavad-gita but they do not
understand. (sic:) Yad jnatv na nivartante tad dhama parama mama, so what do
they understand, these... tyaktv deha punar janma naiti mam eti so'rjuna. They
do not believe all these things, therefore they say.. Swami Chinmayananda says
that whatever is necessary we shall accept; other slokas we shall reject. This
is his, this rascal's philosophy. As if Krsna says something superfluous. They
say like that. And the other day some gentleman came, "It is ficticious
writing... You were present?Hamsaduta: Hm.Prabhupada: "Why he is not
silent?" Krsna is not silent. Krsna is speaking. Why you should be silent when I
challenge you like this. He said, he could not answer. This is going on. So many
things they are doing, if they are challenged, they cannot answer. You were
present? I told him, "Why silent? Krsna is not silent. He says continually,
Bhagavan uvaca; page after page, and he's saying "Why he should silent?" He gave
me the information that Brahman was silent and anyone who would go to him, he
would remain silent and the message would be transferred.Bhagavata: Rajneesh
says the same thing. He says that Krsna and Arjuna did not speak, Krsna simply
looked at Arjuna and Arjuna understood. But in order for Dhrtarastra to
understand, because he was blind, Sanjaya is speaking and he is explaining
everything and Vyasa has written down what Sanjaya has explained. This is, that
is what Rajneesh says like that. So why does Sanjaya say Bhagavan
uvaca?Prabhupada: No, no. Sanjaya heard, then he said?Bhagavata:
Yes.Prabhupada: So, then Krsna is speaking, otherwise how he heard? Hm? This
nonsense is going on. Everywhere, it is very difficult position. So many
rascals. And we have to push on our movement through so many obstacles, but
still we are going on, that is Krsna's mercy. Otherwise we are simply meeting
with obstacles. What can be done? We have to go, forward. I, I met in... same
idea! Impersonalism, bogus thought and no clear idea.Bhagavata: One man came
to Calcutta temple, and he insisted that Krsna was impersonal, that He has no
form. That He was, ultimately there is just the Brahman. I said that Krsna says
in the Gita, brahmano hi pratisthaham; He says, "that aham means the Brahman." I
said that if that aham means the Brahman, then why is Krsna being redundant in
saying that the Brahman is subordinate to the Brahman? Brahmano hi pratisthaham,
He just said Brahman is subordinate to aham, Me. So if aham means Brahman then
why is Krsna saying the Brahman is subordinate to the Brahman? And they are
swamis, yogis and avataras. It is very dangerous position, very dangerous. We
have to deal with all rascals and fools. And they have made some position, of
course that position is nothing, hm? A big big, I mean to say, Mr. Nanda is also
big thing, of this idea, nirvesesa-sunyavadi; still we cannot change our
position. We must go on with our conviction and that is real. Reality. So, begin
kirtana. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New
Delhi
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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