Prabhupada: What is called?
Lunatic, compact in thought. (chuckles) So Krsna lover is also another kind of
lunatic effect.Allen Ginsberg: Except that it would mean concentrating all
my consciousness on the one single image of Krsna.Prabhupada: Not
image.Allen Ginsberg: Or the one single thought or name or feeling or
awareness.Prabhupada: That we have got varieties of duties. Just like we
are. You have seen all these boys. They are always engaged. Always engaged.
Similarly, everywhere they are always engaged in Krsna. We want extra time to
work for Krsna. The twenty-four hours is not sufficient for us. Yes. Then we
shall see that we are sleeping, wasting time. Gosvamis, they used to sleep for
one half-hour only. That also sometimes forgot.Allen Ginsberg: To
dream?Prabhupada: No. They were always engaged. Volumes of books they have
written. When there is no writing, chanting, dancing, talking, and like that --
engaged in Krsna always. That we have been taught by our Guru Maharaja,
twenty-four hours engagement with Krsna. So maya has no scope to enter in our
mind. She always remains aloof: "Oh, here is fire. I cannot touch." Bhakti
mukulitan... Bhaktis tvayi sthiratara yadi bhagavan syad daivena phalati
divya-kisora-murtih, muktir mukulitanjalih sevate 'sman. Bilvamangala Thakura, a
great devotee, he executed devotional service for seven hundred years. He lived
for seven hundred years in Vrndavana. That picture you have seen, Suradasa?
Yes.Allen Ginsberg: Suradasa, the poet.Prabhupada: Yes. He is known as
Suradasa.Allen Ginsberg: Teacher of Tulasi Dasa, or student of Tulasi
Dasa.Prabhupada: He may be different, but Bilvamangala Thakura, he was also
blind. He made himself blind. You know the story of Bilvamangala?Allen
Ginsberg: No.Prabhupada: Bilvamangala Thakura, in his previous life, he
elevated himself to the loving stage of Krsna. Not exactly, just previous,
bhava. It is called bhava, ecstasy. But some way or other, he could not finish,
so according to the instruction of Bhagavad-gita, he was given birth to a nice
brahmana family. (aside:) You can call that Bengali lady. She can hear. So very
rich. Sucinam srimatam gehe [Bg. 6.41], in that way. Rich family, at the same
time, brahmana family. But richness, generally, sometimes glide down to wine,
women, and intoxication. So by bad company he became woman-hunter,
prostitute-hunter. So he was too much addicted to one woman, Cintamani. So his
father died, and he was... He did not marry. In your country it is called
girlfriend, and in our country it is called prostitute. So he was that about
that prostitute, Cintamani. So he was performing the rituals, but he was
thinking of his girlfriend, that Cintamani, "When I shall go there?"
Bilvamangala Thakura? Yes. So he asked his servants, "Give me some food. I shall
go to Cintamani." So anyway, he performed... Did not perform. His mind was
there. He took some nice foodstuff, and when he went, there was a big river, and
it was raining heavily, and the river was flooded. So he thought, "How shall I
go the other side?" So one dead body was floating. So he thought, "It is a log,"
and he took the help of the log and went the other side. And it was heavy
raining. And then, when he reached that Cintamani's home, he saw the door is
locked already. Blocked. So he jumped over the wall, taking the tail of a
serpent, and when he reached inside, he knocked the door, and Cintamani was
astonished. "How did you come? So heavy rain. You had to cross the river." He
said everything, that "Oh, I cannot stay without you." So she was much
inquisitive: "How did you come? How did you jump over this wall?" And so he
showed everything, that there was a big snake, and so he thought it as rope and
jumped it. And then, when he went to the riverside, he saw that was a dead body.
So at that time Cintamani thought, "Oh, this man is so much addicted to me." So
she told, "Oh, this much attraction if you would have with Krsna, oh, how nice
your life would have been." So immediately he came to his senses because he was
lifted to that position in his previous life. So immediately he left and was
going alone to Vrndavana. And on the way he saw another beautiful woman. So his
business was to be attracted by woman. So he again became attracted. So he was
following. So this woman, after entering, she told her husband, "Just see, this
man is following from a distant place." So he asked him, "Oh, come on." He saw
he is nice gentleman. He was a rich man, brahmana. "What is this?" He said
plainly, "Oh, I have been attracted by your wife, by the beauty of your wife."
"All right, come on. What is that?" You enjoy my wife. You are brahmana. You
are..." So he was received well. And at night, when he was given place, then he
asked that woman, "Mother, will you give me your hair pin?" He took the hair pin
and pushed in the eyes: "Oh, these eyes are my enemy." Since then he became
blind. And in that blindness he was worshiping Krsna, and Krsna was coming to
him. And he would not touch. He'll sing, dance, and He'll supply milk and go
away. So this Bilvamangala Thakura wrote one book, Krsna-karnamrta. It is very
valuable book. That is very highly estimated, Lord Caitanya.Allen Ginsberg:
What century is that?Prabhupada: It is since seven hundred years...Guest
(1) (Indian Woman): Fourteenth...Prabhupada: Yes, fourteenth
century.Allen Ginsberg: Bilda... How do you pronounce his
name?Prabhupada: No. Fourteenth century, not Bilvamangala. Bilvamangala
Thakura, some time before(?).Guest (1): Bilvamangala.Allen Ginsberg:
Bilvamangala. Bilvamangala. No, I didn't know the name.Prabhupada: Yes.
There are many poets. He was great poet. If you read this Krsna-karnamrta
poetry, ah, you'll find...Guest (1): Vaisnava, (Bengali) ...Vidyapati,
Candidasa.Prabhupada: Vidyapati, Candidasa, Jayadeva.Allen Ginsberg:
Jayadeva, I know.Guest (1): Jayadeva is a great Vaisnava.Prabhupada:
There are many nice poets.Allen Ginsberg: I know some of the Baul poetry in
English.Prabhupada: You just try to read this Narottama dasa Thakura
especially.Allen Ginsberg: Who?Prabhupada: Narottama dasa
Thakura.Allen Ginsberg: Nartham.Prabhupada: There are many...Guest
(1): Narottama.Prabhupada: That song you were reading last night, Nitai pada
kamala? That is Narottama dasa Thakura's song. For the Vaisnava, to become poet
is another qualification. Vaisnava has twenty-six qualifications. I think it is
written there.Allen Ginsberg: And one of them is to become poet
also.Prabhupada: Poet. He must be poet. All the Vaisnavas, they are
poet.Guest (1): Because they are so deep in love with God.Prabhupada:
Yes. Poetry comes out in deep love with something.Allen Ginsberg: Is that
published somewhere?Prabhupada: Yes.Kirtanananda: Arjuna just typed it
up, and...Prabhupada: Yes.Kirtanananda: You want to see?Allen
Ginsberg: No, don't take it down. I'll look. On my way out I'll
read.Prabhupada: Hrsikesa, you can read loudly. We'll hear.Hrsikesa:
"Qualifications of devotee: 1) kind to everyone, 2) does not quarrel with
anyone, 3) fixed in the Absolute Truth, 4) equal to everyone, 5) faultless, 6)
charitable, 7) mild, 8) clean, 9) simple, 10) benevolent, 11) peaceful, 12)
completely attached to Krsna, 13) no material hankering, 14) meek, 15) steady,
16) self-controlled, 17) does not eat more than required, 18) sane, 19)
respectful..." (laughter)Prabhupada: Not insane.Hrsikesa: "...20)
humble, 21) grave, 22) compassionate, 23) friendly, 24) poetic, 25)
expert..."Prabhupada: Poetic.Hrsikesa: "...25) expert, and 26)
silent."Prabhupada: These are the qualities.Allen Ginsberg: Whose list
is that? Is that an old list or have you made that up for young
Americans?"Prabhupada: Yes. No, these are taken from authoritative sastras.
Yes. This is the test, whether you are becoming Krsna conscious or not. You have
to test yourself, whether you are developing these qualities. This is for
testing.Allen Ginsberg: I'm slowly developing all qualities except sanity.
(laughter)Prabhupada: Insanity for seeking Krsna, that is required. Yes.
Unless you become insane after Krsna just like Lord Caitanya became... Yes. His
worship is to become insane after Krsna.Allen Ginsberg: Is Kabir in the
Vaisnava tradition?Guest (1): He is mystic.Allen Ginsberg: So what
tradition is he in, actually?Prabhupada: He is impersonalist on the whole.
He is impersonalist, whole, and he has got some Vaisnava thought. That's all,
perverted thoughts. Perverted thoughts.Allen Ginsberg: So who is the most
perfect of the Vaisnava poets? That would be Mira?Guest (1): Mira was a
devotee. She was a Vaisnava.Prabhupada: Yes. Devotee means...Guest (1):
Vaisnava. She was, Mira, Krsna devotee. Oh, her songs has called me.Allen
Ginsberg: Have you used her songs here at all?Prabhupada: Yes, in India it
is very popular, Mira's song. Mostly they are written in Hindi, and some of them
have been interpolated. But Mira was a devotee. She saw Rupa Gosvami, a
contemporary. She has written many poetry about Lord Caitanya.Allen
Ginsberg: Oh, she was a contemporary of Caitanya?Prabhupada: Yes.Allen
Ginsberg: Did they meet?Prabhupada: No. She appreciated that Lord Caitanya
is Krsna, and she has written one poetry, song, that "Now You have left aside
Your flute, and You have taken the sannyasi rod." In that way she has written
nice poetry. "And where is Your hair and peacock feather? Now You are
bald-headed." In this way. So Mira appreciated. Her life is also very excellent.
Her father gave her a small Krsna doll to play, and she developed love for Krsna
as husband. So when she was married... She was princess, daughter of king, and
she was married with another prince.Allen Ginsberg: What position does
Anandamayi Ma have now?Prabhupada: She is also impersonalist.Allen
Ginsberg: She is impersonalistPrabhupada: She is not a devotee. There are
many impersonalists. They take advantage of... They say, "Caitanya's patha,
Sankara's matha," that "Follow the principle of Caitanya but ultimately take the
conclusion of Sankara." That means...Allen Ginsberg: Siva.Prabhupada:
No. Sankaracarya.Allen Ginsberg: Aha. What was the conclusion of
Sankaracarya?Prabhupada: Sankaracarya's conclusion was to defeat Buddhism.
They do not know it, but actually, when there was too much animal-killing and
people became almost atheist under the shadow of Vedic rituals, Lord Buddha
appeared. He wanted to stop men from the sinful activities of killing
unnecessarily under the plea of Vedas. So he invented that ahimsa, nonviolence.
And... Because people will give evidence, "Oh, in the Vedas there is..." They
are not following, actually, the Vedic rituals, but just like crooked lawyers
take advantage of law books, similarly... Therefore, Lord Buddha said that "I do
not follow Vedic rituals. I have nothing to do with Vedas. It is my own
formula." So Jayadeva has written one prayer because the Vaisnavas can
understand how God is playing. So he writes, nindasi yajna-vidher ahaha
sruti-jatam: "My dear Lord, now You have appeared as Lord Buddha. You are
decrying the Vedic rituals." Sruti-jatam. Sruti-jatam means Vedic. Why?
Sadaya-hrdaya-darsita-pasu-
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus,
Ohio
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
No comments:
Post a Comment