Prabhupada: Param Brahman. We are
all Brahmans. Aham brahmasmi. Every one of us, living entity, Brahman. But He is
the chief Brahman. Just like you are all Americans, but your president is the
chief American. Do you understand? So similarly, Krsna is the chief Brahman. You
are all Brahman, but He is the chief Brahman. Is it clear? That's all right.
[Break] ...that "This boy hears very nicely. He does not go away," the first
impression he gave to other godbrothers. "So I shall make him disciple." These
very words he said. Actually I did not follow him in the beginning. High
philosophical speaking and I was a new boy. I could not follow him, but actually
I was so much glad to hear him. That's all. So that was my qualification,
whatever you may say. I was simply asking, "When Guru Maharaja will speak? When
he will speak? When?" And I will sit down and go on hearing, and I will
understand or not understand-others will disperse -- I will not disperse. That
he marked. Yes. First. There was first one instance. At that time I was not
initiated. There was a circumambulation of whole Vrndavana. So although I was
not initiated, I was one of the important members of the... So I thought, "Let
me go. What these people are doing, circumambulating all over Vrndavana?" So I
went to Mathura. Then I went to the Vrndavana interior, which place was known as
Kosi. So in that Kosi one of my godbrothers declared that "Prabhupada is going
tomorrow back to Mathura. So he will speak this evening. So anyone who wants to
hear him, they can stay. And others may prepare to..." Sit down.Pradyumna:
Two people just came.
Prabhupada: Oh. All right.
Pradyumna: Can the boys downstairs bring them?
Prabhupada: Yes. So they were to go to see some other temple which is called Sesayi Temple. So although I was new man, I did not like to go to see the Sesayi Temple. I decided that "I shall hear." So at that time I was new, so all other, some of my important godbrothers, they were sitting like this, and I was sitting. At last, you see. But he knew that "This boy is new." Everyone has gone, all others except a few selected godbrothers. So he marked it that "This boy is interested to hear me." So hearing is very important. Hearing. Just like Arjuna heard from Krsna. Come on. (People entering) [Break] ...because I was serious for hearing, and therefore now I am serious about kirtanam, means speaking, or preaching. Do you follow what I say? Yes. So one who is serious about hearing, he can become a future nice preacher. Sravanam kirtanam. Next stage is developed. That is development. If one has actually heard nicely, then he will speak nicely. Sravanam kirtanam smaranam. Then consciousness will automatically develop because when you speak or you hear, unless your mind is concentrated, your consciousness is right, you cannot rightly hear or speak. Sravanam kirtanam smaranam pada-sevanam. And then the development, "How I shall serve Krsna? Krsna is so loving. Krsna is so great," that automatically comes. Not silent, but activity. Pada-sevanam means that activity begins immediately. In this way last item is sarvatma-snapanam. Sarvatma, atma-samarpanam, sarvatma-samarpanam. Bali Maharaja just like. Giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. Then, when Vamanadeva asked, "Now, Bali Maharaja, you have lost everything. Still I have got another leg, another foot, to place." "Yes. There is one thing. It is my head. Come on." So everything is there, and Lord Vamanadeva: "Yes. You have now purchased Me. You have now purchased Me. So I shall remain your doorman here, standing always to give you protection." So Krsna became purchased by him, and He remained his doorman. Just see His mercy. Dvara. Dvari. Dvari means doorman. So by serving Krsna, nobody is loser; he is gainer. He is gainer permanently, eternally. We do not know what is the value of that gain now. Because we are materially covered, we think service means just like service in this world. This service is maya. Nobody will be satisfied, nobody. You cannot satisfy, neither you will be satisfied. The best example is in your country, that your president, Mr. Kennedy, he gave you the best service, and the result was that you killed him. You or some of your member killed him. That means his service was not appreciated, although he gave his best service. So similarly, in the material world, whatever service you render, that is spoiling time. But you render service to Krsna -- you will be satisfied, Krsna will be satisfied, and as Krsna will be satisfied, everyone will be satisfied. So take to this Krsna consciousness service by hearing, by speaking, by remembering, by giving actually service, by worshiping, by making friendship, and after all, everything for Krsna. That is perfection. Now these new boys have come. Let them question and I shall answer. That will be nice. You have heard something about Krsna consciousness? So wherefrom these men ...? (indistinct)
Pradyumna: Bhurijana sent them. Bhurijana sent money for tickets to go to Columbus.
Prabhupada: He has sent the tickets?
Pradyumna: Money.
Prabhupada: Hm. So engage all yourselves in the service of Krsna. It is very pleasing, and what is called encouraging, enlivening. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is frustration. That stage is coming to your country. Therefore the boys are becoming hippies. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is -- that is natural-frustration. There is a good example in our country, one Mr. C.R. Das. He was a great leader, next to Gandhi, important political leader. So he was on the topmost of... He was lawyer, barrister. He was earning fifty thousand dollars monthly, very rich man. And he was making charity, and he was spending like thing (anything). He was drunkard number one, woman-hunter number one, and everything. Because he had money he could enjoy everything. But he was not happy. So one day he was sitting with his wife. Just like in the street, he was looking over. So his wife asked him -- his name was Chittaranjan -- "Chittaranjan, you are earning so much. You are spending. People are very much fond of you. You are a great leader. Why you always remain morose? What do you want to be? You have got now everything." So at that time one mendicant, a sannyasi was passing. So Chittaranjan said, "I want to be like him. Then I will be happy. I don't want to enjoy. I want to beggar, to be beggar-like." You see? So that time is coming to your country. So these hippies, they are frustrating. They have given up everything. We can study their psychic movement. They are not satisfied. That is the main principle. That is natural, to accept adversity voluntarily, adversity. So this is frustration. But before reaching to that point of frustration, if you take to Krsna consciousness, then you reach the real standard of happiness because everything belongs to Krsna. I shall give you another example. Suppose you have stolen something from somebody's house or some friends. You will not be happy, even possessing that thing, stolen property. But if someday you come to return that thing to that friend, you will be happy. What do you think, Hayagriva?
Hayagriva: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. Then you will feel relieved. So therefore the real thing is that everything belongs to Krsna. We are artificially enjoying the stolen property. Therefore if you go on enjoying like that, then this frustration will come. But before coming to that frustration, if we return this property to Krsna, then we become happy. So best thing is to return everything to Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness. And you will not be a loser. You will be gainer, just like Bali Maharaja. Actually, if you think, everything belongs to Krsna. Nothing belongs to you. This is maya. Krsna's property you are thinking, "mine." Is this land of American belongs to you actually? It is stolen property. You have stolen from the Red Indians or from Krsna. Everyone is, not you, everyone. Somebody is claiming, "This much my property," somebody is claiming, "This much my property," but this much or that much, everything belongs to Krsna. It is stolen property. There is another example in Indian words, that hira cauri kiya abhicaurya, khira cauri kiya abhicaura. Hira means diamond, and khira means... What is that called? Cucumber, a small? So if somebody has stolen a cucumber from other's tree, so he is captured. And another man has stolen some diamond. He is also arrested. So from the police, both are thieves. If the man says, "Oh, what I have stolen? I have stolen a little cucumber. It is nothing, worth not even two cent or one cent. Why you are arresting me? He is thief. He has stolen a big diamond," no, in the eyes of law, he is also thief; he is also thief. Everyone is thief. Anyone who is not in Krsna consciousness, he is thief. He'll not be happy. The best thing is to return whatever he has possessed: "Krsna, it is Yours. Take." Finish business. Manasa deha geha, yo kichu mora. Bhaktivinoda Thakura's song... Now, everything we possess in mind. Actually we don't possess. Suppose I am possessing all this. As soon as I go from this body, all possession will remain here. I'll not take anything. So I don't possess. But in mind I am thinking, "Oh, this is mine. This is mine. Where is another box? Why it is not coming?" And possessing in mind. If I leave this body, either the box here or in the Chicago or anywhere else, what is the difference? There is no difference. But because I am possessing in the mind, "Oh, that box is mine," so I am asking, "Whether it is Chicago or it is here, it is there? Why it is not coming?" So possession in the mind. Actually you don't possess. Manasa deha geha. So by that supposingly possessing, we have got our mind, we have got our body, then expansion of body, wife, children, family, society, country. In this way we possess so many things. Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, manasa deha geha, yo kichu mora: "Now whatever I possess, either in the mind or in the family or in the society or in the body -- whatever I have got, I surrender unto You, my dear Krsna." Manasa deha geha, yo kichu..., arpilun tua pade nanda kisora: "Nanda-kisora, O the son of Nanda, I give unto You." Marobi rakhobi, yo iccha tohara: "Now whatever You like, You can do, either you kill me or You protect me, as You like. You are the proprietor. You have right to do everything." This is surrender. This is full Krsna consciousness. That is not possible immediately. Therefore we have to practice. Sada tad-bhava-bhavitah [Bg. 8.6]. And if we die in that Krsna consciousness, yam yam vapi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram... In the particular type of consciousness, when one gives up this body, then he is transferred into that position next life. So in this way, Krsna consciousness, if we are able, sada tad-bhava-bhavitah, by practicing always, constantly, that situation of consciousness, then next life, after giving up... Why next life? This life also. One person who is in always Krsna's service this life or that life, he is with Krsna. He is with Krsna. Any person who is in Krsna consciousness is always with Krsna. Krsna is everywhere. I may not understand, but Krsna is everywhere. So you American boys and girls, you should take to this Krsna consciousness. You'll be happy. Your position is to take up because you are on the top of the material happiness. Now you take it. You be saved. Otherwise this frustration is coming. That will come. Just like C.R. Das. He, out of that frustration, he gave up everything. He sacrificed his life for political. And what is the value of that sacrifice? You may become a great man of your country in the estimation of your people, but not in the estimation of Krsna. You may become a great man in the estimation of your country, but in others' estimation, your enemy, "Oh, this man is dead. Now our enemy is finished. That's nice." So another side there is imperfection. Not everybody is satisfied by your service. But if you serve Krsna, everybody is satisfied. If you chant Hare Krsna and dance, nobody will be dissatisfied. At least they will say, "Ah..." Just like in the paper, "The boys are very nice." You see? You have seen. Instead of not very sympathetic, they have remarked this, "Oh, these boys are very nice." At least, people will appreciate, "Oh, these boys are... These Krsna conscious men are very nice. They do not smoke. They do not drink. They have no illicit sex life. They do not kill for satisfy the tongue. They are satisfied with natural food. And their behavior is very good." Who will deny it? And the other asset they cannot estimate, that how much he is in contact with Krsna, the Supreme. That, they have no estimating power, but at least they will appreciate these external features. One clergyman, when I was going to Hawaii, he was talking with me. He said, "Swamiji, I have seen your disciples have a very nice face, glowing face." And "Yes, certainly. They must be. They are making spiritual progress." So it is not difficult. It is very easy. If you take to this, you have everything sublime and your life becomes sublime. You haven't got to give up anything. The material needs are there, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is not disallowed, but adjusted for Krsna consciousness. We cannot allow eating, mating, like animals, cats and dogs. No. That is not possible. You'll eat, you'll mate, but just like human being, civilized man. Then what is the distinction between animal and man if we behave like animals? Krsna, God, is pure. So if you keep yourself in impure condition of life, then how you can make progress towards purity, highest perfection, purity? Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan [Bg. 10.12]. In the Tenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita Arjuna is accepting Krsna that "You are the purest of all." If you are going to reach the purest of all, how you can remain impure? This tapasya... This voluntary restraint means tapasya. Tapasya, there is a Sanskrit word, tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily restraining or accepting some suffering condition. That is not actually suffering condition. Just like a patient. A doctor says, "You cannot take it." So he has the desire to take it, but doctor says that "you cannot take it." Therefore he mentally thinks that "Doctor has restricted this. I am suffering." Actually he is curing, but he thinks that "I am suffering." And when he's cured, he sees, "Oh, doctor is good friend. He told me not to indulge in this. Now I have done it. I am now cured." So tapasya means voluntarily one has to accept some so-called suffering. That is required to make advancement in Krsna consciousness, voluntarily acceptance, some so-called suffering. Tapah divyam. That suffering is for transcendental realization. That is good. Tapo divyam yena sattvam suddhyet [SB 5.5.1]. Suddhyet means your existence will be purified. And existence purified means you advance to realize unlimited happiness. What is the disease? Disease means there is limitation of eating, limitation of sleeping. Everything is limited. Limitation of mating. A diseased man cannot have sex life unlimitedly or whatever. There is restriction. A tuberculosis person is completely restricted, "You cannot have sex life." That restriction is for curing him. And the cure means he enjoys -- whatever he thinks enjoyment, that is unlimited. Yasmad brahma-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1]. Brahma-saukhyam, eternal happiness, unending happiness. So for acquiring unending, eternal happiness, if you have to accept some voluntary suffering in this life, everyone should do that. So if you ask... You can ask some questions. Adau gurvasrayam sad-dharma-prcchat. If you go to a person, superior, or spiritual master, then you should ask. You should be inquisitive for better understanding. Sad-dharma-prcchat. Jijnasu. Jijnasu means inquisitive, jijnasuh sreya uttamam, inquisitive for higher, happy life. Inquisitiveness. So what is your inquisitiveness?
Guest (1): Would you say something about Christ and his relation to Krsna consciousness? Christ? Jesus Christ?
Prabhupada: Christ is Krsna conscious. That's all. You become like Christ, Krsna conscious. Don't you understand Christ, that he is fully Krsna conscious? You don't understand it? Then you become like Christ, fully Krsna conscious.
Madhumangala: What does Madhumangala mean?
Prabhupada: That is not very good question.
Madhumangala: (indistinct)...told me to ask.
Prabhupada: Madhumangala, you have explained when I initiated. Madhumangala was one of the friend of Krsna. That's all.
Guest (2): What was Arjuna's relation to Krsna, I mean, as concise as you can put it?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Kirtanananda: What was Arjuna's relationship to Krsna?
Prabhupada: Friendship. That is also... There are five kinds of relationship. Just like "God is great." That is simply feeling the greatness of God. Then, when he feels exactly how God is great, then naturally there will be an inclination to serve God. That is called servitude. First neutrality estimation... That is called santa-rasa, neutral, no activity but simply appreciating, "God is great," simply appreciation. And then servitude. When the appreciation is complete, "Oh, why not serve God? He is so great. He is giving us so many things. Let me return something. Let me do some service of Him." Servitude. That is further development of the appreciation of the greatness of God. And then further development is friendship. Friendship means... Service means I ask you, "Please give me a glass of water." You give me. And friendship means you are thinking, "How my friend will be... Now he may be wanting a glass of water." So before asking me, if you give me, "I think you may require a glass of water," that is friendship. Friendship means feeling friend's welfare always. Suhrt. Friendship is not simply chatting. Friendship means thinking, "How my friend will be happy?" This is friendship. Then that friendship, when further developed, that is parenthood. Just like parents, they have no other consideration. They want to see, "How my child will be happy always?" And further development is conjugal love, just like man and woman, male and female, that love. That love includes everything -- that appreciation of greatness, that servitude of service, the friendship, then maternal love, and further, offering everything for the lover. That is most perfectional stage of love. So in this way we have got five kinds of direct relationship, and there are seven kinds of indirect relationship. That is not on the platform of love. That is on the platform of enmity. Just like Kamsa. Kamsa was thinking of Krsna as enemy, so he was also Krsna conscious. He was thinking of how to kill Krsna. So that is also Krsna consciousness, but indirectly. So there are, indirect, seven rasas: ghastly, inimical, and sometimes seeing Krsna, one laughs, derided... In so many ways there are many indirect... Without relationship nobody can remain. The seven kinds of relationship are indirect. And five kinds of relationship is direct. So we want to be situated in the direct relationship.
Kirtanananda: All of the conditioned souls are in an indirect relationship.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: Everyone is in a relationship.
Prabhupada: Yes. There must be some relation. Without relationship one cannot exist because he is part and parcel. Just like persons in the prison house. They are not out of government. There is relationship with the government, but that is indirect. The criminals, they do not appreciate the service of the government. Government is bothered about his existence. Some extra... Instead of receiving some service from him to the state, the state has got to spend unnecessarily for him. That is a botheration. So those who are in indirect relationship with Krsna, they are botheration. They are simply giving trouble to Krsna, but there is relationship.
Hayagriva: Is the humorous direct or indirect? One in humor?
Prabhupada: Humor, humor is practically in every direct relationship. And indirect also, there is humor. "I am thinking of you as enemy" -- that is also another type of humor. (Chuckles) Yes.
Pradyumna: Do the five direct rasas take place between jiva souls also when they are...
Prabhupada: Everything for jiva souls, all relationship. Krsna is one, the Supreme, and all the jiva souls are part and parcel of Krsna. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly. Jiva soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called maya, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God," "There is no God." This is maya. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Krsna consciousness treatment, and the maya will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Krsna." Then he comes to the direct relationship. Anyone, so-called spiritualist or transcendentalist, if he is claiming that "There is no God," "I am God," "There is voidness," these are all disturbing positions, different symptoms of this disease of maya. It is disease. How one can think of, that he is God? That means he does not know what is God. If I say here that "I am President Nixon," would you accept it? Would you accept? Any one of you, if I say that "I am President Nixon," will you accept? Why? Why? Why? Why you do not accept me? I say, "I am President Nixon." Why do you not accept? Why?
Woman: I would say you are if you say you are.
Kirtanananda: You don't have the characteristics.
Prabhupada: No. That means you are not rascal. You are sane, that you do not accept me as President... That is one thing. At least you are not insane. So if I say, "God," and you accept, then how much insane you are. Just try to understand. How much insanity is there, one who is claiming that "I am God" and one who is accepting that he is God. This is insanity.
Woman: Are we not all one?
Prabhupada: One is... That is different thing. You are not one with President Nixon?
Woman: Yes.
Prabhupada: Then are you President Nixon?
Woman: He's a human being. He's part of me.
Prabhupada: That's all right. He is American. He is human being. In so many qualities you are one. But you cannot claim for that, you are President Nixon. You should understand in that way. In so many respect, qualities, you are one with God, but that does not mean you are God. God is one. That means you have no complete understanding. Just like in spite of your becoming American or human being, you deny to identify yourself with President Nixon because you have full knowledge of President Nixon and yourself. And as soon as you say, "I am God," that means you have no full knowledge of God. You are insane. You do not know what is God. That very thing immediately asserts that you are unknown factor about God. God is said, "Great," but you are claiming that greatness. That means you do not know how great He is. A tiny factor, you are claiming that "I am God," without having that greatness. That means insane, insanity. The same way: if you claim that "I am President Nixon," that is insanity. Similarly, God is, how great He is, how much greater than President Nixon. You deny to become one with President Nixon, and you accept to be one with God? How much insane you are. Just try to understand. Yes?
Child: How many arms does Lord Nrsimhadeva have?
Prabhupada: That you shall know later on. Not now.
Janardana: I've read in Bhagavad-gita that he who knows the self does not do action nor causes action to be done. So what is the soul's, the spirit soul's, relationship to actions performed both in material consciousness and in spiritual, in Krsna consciousness?
Prabhupada: Material consciousness means forgetting God. When one forgets God, that is material consciousness. Material consciousness is called maya. Actually one should not forget. But if he forgets somehow or other, that is material consciousness. Naturally nobody forgets his father and mother. But if, somehow or other, he forgets, that is a special circumstances and that is called maya, illusion. Just like any one of you who are existing, you must have a father and mother. That is a fact. Without father and mother, your existence cannot be. Now, if you cannot say who is your father and mother, if you do not know, this forgetfulness, this is called maya. Actually it should not happen, but somehow or other, if you are asked, "Who is your parents?" You cannot say. This is called maya. But there must be some father and mother. Without father and mother, there cannot be an existence. You cannot deny that. You cannot say, "Oh, I have no father and mother." That is not possible. You may not know who is your father, mother. That is a different thing. But you cannot say, "Oh, I have no father, mother." So this denial, that "I don't believe in God," is a existence like that, one who has forgotten his father and mother. That is maya, and that is material consciousness. Denying God in different way, "There is no God," that is also denial. "I don't believe in God" -- that is also denial. "God is impersonal, void," anyway, whatever you say in that way, that is all insanity, maya. Maya means insanity. Another meaning of maya means insanity. Just like when a man becomes insane, that is false. It is expected that he should not be insane. By treatment he is brought again to his original consciousness. Similarly, maya means insanity, forgetfulness of God. And by Krsna consciousness treatment he comes to the original consciousness. He becomes a cured man. Actually maya means which has no existence. Maya has no existence. But sometimes it is there. Just like the sky's cover. This covering is not reality. The reality is this sky, clear sky, but somehow it is now covered. You cannot see the clear sky. So there is temporary, temporary illusion. Now, if I see the cloud only and if I say, "Oh, there is no sun. There is no illumination," or "There is no clear sky," that is insanity. Because I cannot see-under certain circumstances, I deny it -- that is my insanity. Therefore you have to approach to a man who knows that there is sunlight, there is sun, there is clear sky... If you go there... You require all this education, knowledge. By knowledge one transcends maya, or material existence. What is the difference between ordinary man and Krsna conscious man? They are also living in this world, in this apartment. Everything is being utilized like others. We are also eating, sleeping also. But what is the difference? Our difference -- that we accept that everything belongs to Krsna; others do not. That's all. That is maya. Everything actually belongs to Krsna. He does not know. He thinks, "It belongs to me," or "This, my nation, this, my country, this, that," so many things. He is manufacturing. And we know the simple truth, that everything belongs to Krsna. So let everything be offered to Krsna. That's all. Yes.
Kirtanananda: So we understand that in the material consciousness the living entity is being forced to act.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: His actions are quite automatic under the laws of material nature.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, action is there. Because you are living entity, you are active.
Kirtanananda: Yes, but they are being dictated.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like a man in fever talking nonsense. So that is due to fever.
Kirtanananda: In Krsna consciousness, are the actions of the jiva similarly controlled by Krsna's superior energy?
Prabhupada: Yes, certainly.
Kirtanananda: But everything is being controlled ultimately by Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: Either by inferior energy or superior energy.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Kirtanananda: So his activities are never independent, either in Krsna or...
Prabhupada: Never, never, never. That is his insanity, another. As soon as he thinks that "I am independent," that is another insanity. He is under control. Just like the same man. He is thinking, "I don't care for state laws." He is insane. He will be forced to accept state laws in the prison house by the police. But he thinks, "Oh, I am free man." Still... He is slapped by the police. He says, "Oh, I am independent. Go on slapping." This is insanity. Is it not insanity? The police slaps him, and he says, "I am independent." Do you think independence? So that sort of independence we are having. We are kicked by maya always, and we are thinking, "independent." This is insanity. He does not think, "Why I am independent? I am servant of my senses. I cannot remain, enjoying senses, for an hour, and I am thinking I am independent." That means insane. He cannot think properly. Where is his independence? Cannot be independent. He is born dependent because part and parcel of God. His constitutional position is dependent. Just like child. A child declares independence. What is the meaning of that independence? Danger. That's all. Simply inviting dangers. A child wants: "Oh, I don't care for my parents. I shall cross the road. I shall go everywhere." So if he is allowed to do that, that means he is simply inviting dangers. And if he remains under the protection of the parents, he is always safe. So this living entity's declaring independence means he is insane, different kinds of insanity. He cannot be independent. Let him think very deeply that it cannot be independent. He is thinking independent of God, but he is dependent on his sense pleasure. That's all. And some intoxication, a voluntarily accept dependence of something maya. That's all. Who is independent. Is there anyone independent? Nobody is independent. To think of independence is maya. Best thing is that "I am dependent, and let me remain dependent in properly. Then I am protected." That is Krsna consciousness. So your question is answered? Material consciousness means thinking falsely independent. That is material consciousness. Falsely. He is not independent, but he is thinking falsely, "I am independent." This is maya. Just like in dream he is falsely thinking there is a tiger. There is no tiger, but he is actuated by this false impression, "Oh, tiger is eating me. It has attacked me. Save me." So this material existence means because he is insane, he is thinking there are so many problems, "The tiger is there. He is attacking me. This, that, so many enemies, friends...," creating so many things. But they are all false. But he is attacked by that false hallucination. That's all. This is maya. Everyone is thinking, "Oh, there are so many problems I have to solve. I have to make this, that, this, so many." But he has no problem. He has no problem. His only problem is how to accept Krsna. That's all. And Krsna is so kind. He says, "Yes, you accept Me. Simply chant Krsna. I am yours. That's all." But my, I am so misfortunate that I cannot chant even. All problems solved simply by chanting Krsna. Etadrsi tava krpa bhagavan. Caitanya Mahaprabhu teaches that "O Krsna, You are so kind that You have come to Me in the sound vibration, word, 'Krsna.' I can very easily chant, and You remain with Me. But I am so misfortunate that I have no attraction even for this." You say people, "You chant Krsna; you get everything." They will not believe it. If you say, "You press your nose. You pay me fifty dollars. I'll give you some nice mantra and this, that. You make your head like this, leg like this," "Oh," he'll say, "here is something." Something. "And this Swamiji says, 'Simply chant Krsna.' Oh, what is this?" Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, etadrsi tava krpa bhagavan mamapi durdaiva: "But I am so unfortunate that You have become so easily available in this age, but I am so unfortunate, I cannot accept it." So the Krsna consciousness so easily being distributed, but they are so unfortunate, they cannot accept. Just see. And you give them bluff, you cheat them -- they will, "Ah, yes, welcome. Yes." They'll welcome it. And cheaters are always ready: "Oh, there are so many customers for being cheated. Let me take advantage of it." So my Guru Maharaja used to say, "This world is the society of cheaters and cheated." The members are somebody are cheating, and somebody are cheated. The association of cheaters and cheated. So we want to save them from this society of cheaters and cheated.
Janardana: Prabhupada, often when we'll be performing, doing some activity during our day, and so many things will go wrong, and we become frustrated...
Prabhupada: Well, when one is a professional, there may be something wrong. That doesn't matter. But you try to discharge your duties, rightly, whatever you are prescribed to do. Then everything will come to the right point. Your only business is to follow the four principles of regulative life and chant Hare Krsna sixteen rounds. So there may be sometimes mistake. That will be corrected automatically. Because we are coming from a different platform, so it may be. And that is also said in the Bha... Api cet su-duracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak, sadhur eva sa mantavyah: [Bg. 9.30] "If one is found doing mistake or doing something wrong, but because he is sticking to this principle of Krsna consciousness, he is sadhu." Sadhu means a holy man. He is holy. He is not doing any wrong consciously. But due to habit... Suppose just like most of you were, in your former life, you were smoking or taking intoxication. But by some influence, if you sometimes take to it, yes, if you are conscious, "Oh, I have done wrong," but that is excused if you have done unconscious. But if you think that "Now I am Krsna conscious. Whatever I do, it is right," then it is great sin. But accidentally it happens -- that is excused. Never mind. So accidental mistake is not dangerous. Willful mistake is dangerous. That we should be careful. We should be very careful always so that accidental mistakes also may not take place. But if it takes place, it is excused.
Devotee: Can hatha-yoga hinder or help Krsna consciousness, or is it...?
Prabhupada: Hinder. Yes. Because it is useless, simply wasting time. You cannot perform hatha-yoga in this age. You do not follow the rules and regulations. You are simply bluffed. Do you know what is the rules and regulations of hatha-yoga factually?
Devotee: Not actually.
Prabhupada: Yes. You have to select a secluded place. Hatha-yoga is not practiced in assembly of so many men. Just you go to a hatha-yoga class. There are hundreds of members practicing, and he is collecting money, five dollars per seat. And you are thinking, "I am practicing." That is useless waste of time and money. Hatha-yoga is not practiced in that way. You have to practice in a secluded place, alone. Do you do that?
Devotee: Yes. Not... No. I guess I don't.
Prabhupada: It is very difficult in this age. Then you have to restrain yourself in so many things. Complete free from sex life. You have to eat under certain direction, you have to... So many things there are. These rules are not followed. Simply they have got some bodily gymnastic sitting posture. They are thinking, "I am practicing." No. That is one of the items. So all the items cannot be observed in this age. Therefore it is wasting. [ "...yogis, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all." This is the goal of yoga practice. So that is possible very easily by this movement, Krsna consciousness, not by any other process. And the ultimate goal is here. One should be always abiding with God, worshiping Him, transcendental loving service, and intimately united with Him, intimately. This intimate unity means that five kinds of relationship. That is the perfection of yoga. When Krsna has advised yoga practice, sankhya-yoga... You have Bhagavad-gita? There is sankhya-yoga. You'll find in the forty-seventh verse. This is the version.
Devotee: There's no value in keeping the body fit through exercise?
Prabhupada: Yes, you can become very healthy. But does it mean that health is the perfection of life? Do you mean to say healthy life will not die, will not change his body? So health is required, but health is not the ultimate goal of life. Ultimate goal of life is here.
Guest (3): Buddha taught very similar things to what the Gita taught also, didn't he? Are there agreeances there, agreement in certain places what Buddha taught and what the Gita teaches?
Prabhupada: Do you follow this Buddha?
Guest (3): Uh, no.
Prabhupada: You simply talk of him? You practice Buddha if you appreciate him. You give up everything like Buddha and meditate. But that you will not do. Then what is the talking of, useless talking about this? Do something. Either you believe Buddha or Jesus Christ or Krsna. Do something. Don't talk simply. Lord Buddha is very nice. He gave up his kingdom in youthful life. He was prince. He thought, "It is all nonsense. Let me meditate." Do like that. That is the disease. We won't do anything. We talk much of this, that, this, that. Do anything, but do it perfectly. "Jack of all trade, master of none." That is not good. Be master of something. It doesn't differ. Either you follow Lord Jesus Christ or Lord Buddha or Krsna, it doesn't matter much. But do it perfectly. That is our request. (end)
Prabhupada: Oh. All right.
Pradyumna: Can the boys downstairs bring them?
Prabhupada: Yes. So they were to go to see some other temple which is called Sesayi Temple. So although I was new man, I did not like to go to see the Sesayi Temple. I decided that "I shall hear." So at that time I was new, so all other, some of my important godbrothers, they were sitting like this, and I was sitting. At last, you see. But he knew that "This boy is new." Everyone has gone, all others except a few selected godbrothers. So he marked it that "This boy is interested to hear me." So hearing is very important. Hearing. Just like Arjuna heard from Krsna. Come on. (People entering) [Break] ...because I was serious for hearing, and therefore now I am serious about kirtanam, means speaking, or preaching. Do you follow what I say? Yes. So one who is serious about hearing, he can become a future nice preacher. Sravanam kirtanam. Next stage is developed. That is development. If one has actually heard nicely, then he will speak nicely. Sravanam kirtanam smaranam. Then consciousness will automatically develop because when you speak or you hear, unless your mind is concentrated, your consciousness is right, you cannot rightly hear or speak. Sravanam kirtanam smaranam pada-sevanam. And then the development, "How I shall serve Krsna? Krsna is so loving. Krsna is so great," that automatically comes. Not silent, but activity. Pada-sevanam means that activity begins immediately. In this way last item is sarvatma-snapanam. Sarvatma, atma-samarpanam, sarvatma-samarpanam. Bali Maharaja just like. Giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. Then, when Vamanadeva asked, "Now, Bali Maharaja, you have lost everything. Still I have got another leg, another foot, to place." "Yes. There is one thing. It is my head. Come on." So everything is there, and Lord Vamanadeva: "Yes. You have now purchased Me. You have now purchased Me. So I shall remain your doorman here, standing always to give you protection." So Krsna became purchased by him, and He remained his doorman. Just see His mercy. Dvara. Dvari. Dvari means doorman. So by serving Krsna, nobody is loser; he is gainer. He is gainer permanently, eternally. We do not know what is the value of that gain now. Because we are materially covered, we think service means just like service in this world. This service is maya. Nobody will be satisfied, nobody. You cannot satisfy, neither you will be satisfied. The best example is in your country, that your president, Mr. Kennedy, he gave you the best service, and the result was that you killed him. You or some of your member killed him. That means his service was not appreciated, although he gave his best service. So similarly, in the material world, whatever service you render, that is spoiling time. But you render service to Krsna -- you will be satisfied, Krsna will be satisfied, and as Krsna will be satisfied, everyone will be satisfied. So take to this Krsna consciousness service by hearing, by speaking, by remembering, by giving actually service, by worshiping, by making friendship, and after all, everything for Krsna. That is perfection. Now these new boys have come. Let them question and I shall answer. That will be nice. You have heard something about Krsna consciousness? So wherefrom these men ...? (indistinct)
Pradyumna: Bhurijana sent them. Bhurijana sent money for tickets to go to Columbus.
Prabhupada: He has sent the tickets?
Pradyumna: Money.
Prabhupada: Hm. So engage all yourselves in the service of Krsna. It is very pleasing, and what is called encouraging, enlivening. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is frustration. That stage is coming to your country. Therefore the boys are becoming hippies. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is -- that is natural-frustration. There is a good example in our country, one Mr. C.R. Das. He was a great leader, next to Gandhi, important political leader. So he was on the topmost of... He was lawyer, barrister. He was earning fifty thousand dollars monthly, very rich man. And he was making charity, and he was spending like thing (anything). He was drunkard number one, woman-hunter number one, and everything. Because he had money he could enjoy everything. But he was not happy. So one day he was sitting with his wife. Just like in the street, he was looking over. So his wife asked him -- his name was Chittaranjan -- "Chittaranjan, you are earning so much. You are spending. People are very much fond of you. You are a great leader. Why you always remain morose? What do you want to be? You have got now everything." So at that time one mendicant, a sannyasi was passing. So Chittaranjan said, "I want to be like him. Then I will be happy. I don't want to enjoy. I want to beggar, to be beggar-like." You see? So that time is coming to your country. So these hippies, they are frustrating. They have given up everything. We can study their psychic movement. They are not satisfied. That is the main principle. That is natural, to accept adversity voluntarily, adversity. So this is frustration. But before reaching to that point of frustration, if you take to Krsna consciousness, then you reach the real standard of happiness because everything belongs to Krsna. I shall give you another example. Suppose you have stolen something from somebody's house or some friends. You will not be happy, even possessing that thing, stolen property. But if someday you come to return that thing to that friend, you will be happy. What do you think, Hayagriva?
Hayagriva: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. Then you will feel relieved. So therefore the real thing is that everything belongs to Krsna. We are artificially enjoying the stolen property. Therefore if you go on enjoying like that, then this frustration will come. But before coming to that frustration, if we return this property to Krsna, then we become happy. So best thing is to return everything to Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness. And you will not be a loser. You will be gainer, just like Bali Maharaja. Actually, if you think, everything belongs to Krsna. Nothing belongs to you. This is maya. Krsna's property you are thinking, "mine." Is this land of American belongs to you actually? It is stolen property. You have stolen from the Red Indians or from Krsna. Everyone is, not you, everyone. Somebody is claiming, "This much my property," somebody is claiming, "This much my property," but this much or that much, everything belongs to Krsna. It is stolen property. There is another example in Indian words, that hira cauri kiya abhicaurya, khira cauri kiya abhicaura. Hira means diamond, and khira means... What is that called? Cucumber, a small? So if somebody has stolen a cucumber from other's tree, so he is captured. And another man has stolen some diamond. He is also arrested. So from the police, both are thieves. If the man says, "Oh, what I have stolen? I have stolen a little cucumber. It is nothing, worth not even two cent or one cent. Why you are arresting me? He is thief. He has stolen a big diamond," no, in the eyes of law, he is also thief; he is also thief. Everyone is thief. Anyone who is not in Krsna consciousness, he is thief. He'll not be happy. The best thing is to return whatever he has possessed: "Krsna, it is Yours. Take." Finish business. Manasa deha geha, yo kichu mora. Bhaktivinoda Thakura's song... Now, everything we possess in mind. Actually we don't possess. Suppose I am possessing all this. As soon as I go from this body, all possession will remain here. I'll not take anything. So I don't possess. But in mind I am thinking, "Oh, this is mine. This is mine. Where is another box? Why it is not coming?" And possessing in mind. If I leave this body, either the box here or in the Chicago or anywhere else, what is the difference? There is no difference. But because I am possessing in the mind, "Oh, that box is mine," so I am asking, "Whether it is Chicago or it is here, it is there? Why it is not coming?" So possession in the mind. Actually you don't possess. Manasa deha geha. So by that supposingly possessing, we have got our mind, we have got our body, then expansion of body, wife, children, family, society, country. In this way we possess so many things. Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, manasa deha geha, yo kichu mora: "Now whatever I possess, either in the mind or in the family or in the society or in the body -- whatever I have got, I surrender unto You, my dear Krsna." Manasa deha geha, yo kichu..., arpilun tua pade nanda kisora: "Nanda-kisora, O the son of Nanda, I give unto You." Marobi rakhobi, yo iccha tohara: "Now whatever You like, You can do, either you kill me or You protect me, as You like. You are the proprietor. You have right to do everything." This is surrender. This is full Krsna consciousness. That is not possible immediately. Therefore we have to practice. Sada tad-bhava-bhavitah [Bg. 8.6]. And if we die in that Krsna consciousness, yam yam vapi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram... In the particular type of consciousness, when one gives up this body, then he is transferred into that position next life. So in this way, Krsna consciousness, if we are able, sada tad-bhava-bhavitah, by practicing always, constantly, that situation of consciousness, then next life, after giving up... Why next life? This life also. One person who is in always Krsna's service this life or that life, he is with Krsna. He is with Krsna. Any person who is in Krsna consciousness is always with Krsna. Krsna is everywhere. I may not understand, but Krsna is everywhere. So you American boys and girls, you should take to this Krsna consciousness. You'll be happy. Your position is to take up because you are on the top of the material happiness. Now you take it. You be saved. Otherwise this frustration is coming. That will come. Just like C.R. Das. He, out of that frustration, he gave up everything. He sacrificed his life for political. And what is the value of that sacrifice? You may become a great man of your country in the estimation of your people, but not in the estimation of Krsna. You may become a great man in the estimation of your country, but in others' estimation, your enemy, "Oh, this man is dead. Now our enemy is finished. That's nice." So another side there is imperfection. Not everybody is satisfied by your service. But if you serve Krsna, everybody is satisfied. If you chant Hare Krsna and dance, nobody will be dissatisfied. At least they will say, "Ah..." Just like in the paper, "The boys are very nice." You see? You have seen. Instead of not very sympathetic, they have remarked this, "Oh, these boys are very nice." At least, people will appreciate, "Oh, these boys are... These Krsna conscious men are very nice. They do not smoke. They do not drink. They have no illicit sex life. They do not kill for satisfy the tongue. They are satisfied with natural food. And their behavior is very good." Who will deny it? And the other asset they cannot estimate, that how much he is in contact with Krsna, the Supreme. That, they have no estimating power, but at least they will appreciate these external features. One clergyman, when I was going to Hawaii, he was talking with me. He said, "Swamiji, I have seen your disciples have a very nice face, glowing face." And "Yes, certainly. They must be. They are making spiritual progress." So it is not difficult. It is very easy. If you take to this, you have everything sublime and your life becomes sublime. You haven't got to give up anything. The material needs are there, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is not disallowed, but adjusted for Krsna consciousness. We cannot allow eating, mating, like animals, cats and dogs. No. That is not possible. You'll eat, you'll mate, but just like human being, civilized man. Then what is the distinction between animal and man if we behave like animals? Krsna, God, is pure. So if you keep yourself in impure condition of life, then how you can make progress towards purity, highest perfection, purity? Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan [Bg. 10.12]. In the Tenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita Arjuna is accepting Krsna that "You are the purest of all." If you are going to reach the purest of all, how you can remain impure? This tapasya... This voluntary restraint means tapasya. Tapasya, there is a Sanskrit word, tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily restraining or accepting some suffering condition. That is not actually suffering condition. Just like a patient. A doctor says, "You cannot take it." So he has the desire to take it, but doctor says that "you cannot take it." Therefore he mentally thinks that "Doctor has restricted this. I am suffering." Actually he is curing, but he thinks that "I am suffering." And when he's cured, he sees, "Oh, doctor is good friend. He told me not to indulge in this. Now I have done it. I am now cured." So tapasya means voluntarily one has to accept some so-called suffering. That is required to make advancement in Krsna consciousness, voluntarily acceptance, some so-called suffering. Tapah divyam. That suffering is for transcendental realization. That is good. Tapo divyam yena sattvam suddhyet [SB 5.5.1]. Suddhyet means your existence will be purified. And existence purified means you advance to realize unlimited happiness. What is the disease? Disease means there is limitation of eating, limitation of sleeping. Everything is limited. Limitation of mating. A diseased man cannot have sex life unlimitedly or whatever. There is restriction. A tuberculosis person is completely restricted, "You cannot have sex life." That restriction is for curing him. And the cure means he enjoys -- whatever he thinks enjoyment, that is unlimited. Yasmad brahma-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1]. Brahma-saukhyam, eternal happiness, unending happiness. So for acquiring unending, eternal happiness, if you have to accept some voluntary suffering in this life, everyone should do that. So if you ask... You can ask some questions. Adau gurvasrayam sad-dharma-prcchat. If you go to a person, superior, or spiritual master, then you should ask. You should be inquisitive for better understanding. Sad-dharma-prcchat. Jijnasu. Jijnasu means inquisitive, jijnasuh sreya uttamam, inquisitive for higher, happy life. Inquisitiveness. So what is your inquisitiveness?
Guest (1): Would you say something about Christ and his relation to Krsna consciousness? Christ? Jesus Christ?
Prabhupada: Christ is Krsna conscious. That's all. You become like Christ, Krsna conscious. Don't you understand Christ, that he is fully Krsna conscious? You don't understand it? Then you become like Christ, fully Krsna conscious.
Madhumangala: What does Madhumangala mean?
Prabhupada: That is not very good question.
Madhumangala: (indistinct)...told me to ask.
Prabhupada: Madhumangala, you have explained when I initiated. Madhumangala was one of the friend of Krsna. That's all.
Guest (2): What was Arjuna's relation to Krsna, I mean, as concise as you can put it?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Kirtanananda: What was Arjuna's relationship to Krsna?
Prabhupada: Friendship. That is also... There are five kinds of relationship. Just like "God is great." That is simply feeling the greatness of God. Then, when he feels exactly how God is great, then naturally there will be an inclination to serve God. That is called servitude. First neutrality estimation... That is called santa-rasa, neutral, no activity but simply appreciating, "God is great," simply appreciation. And then servitude. When the appreciation is complete, "Oh, why not serve God? He is so great. He is giving us so many things. Let me return something. Let me do some service of Him." Servitude. That is further development of the appreciation of the greatness of God. And then further development is friendship. Friendship means... Service means I ask you, "Please give me a glass of water." You give me. And friendship means you are thinking, "How my friend will be... Now he may be wanting a glass of water." So before asking me, if you give me, "I think you may require a glass of water," that is friendship. Friendship means feeling friend's welfare always. Suhrt. Friendship is not simply chatting. Friendship means thinking, "How my friend will be happy?" This is friendship. Then that friendship, when further developed, that is parenthood. Just like parents, they have no other consideration. They want to see, "How my child will be happy always?" And further development is conjugal love, just like man and woman, male and female, that love. That love includes everything -- that appreciation of greatness, that servitude of service, the friendship, then maternal love, and further, offering everything for the lover. That is most perfectional stage of love. So in this way we have got five kinds of direct relationship, and there are seven kinds of indirect relationship. That is not on the platform of love. That is on the platform of enmity. Just like Kamsa. Kamsa was thinking of Krsna as enemy, so he was also Krsna conscious. He was thinking of how to kill Krsna. So that is also Krsna consciousness, but indirectly. So there are, indirect, seven rasas: ghastly, inimical, and sometimes seeing Krsna, one laughs, derided... In so many ways there are many indirect... Without relationship nobody can remain. The seven kinds of relationship are indirect. And five kinds of relationship is direct. So we want to be situated in the direct relationship.
Kirtanananda: All of the conditioned souls are in an indirect relationship.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: Everyone is in a relationship.
Prabhupada: Yes. There must be some relation. Without relationship one cannot exist because he is part and parcel. Just like persons in the prison house. They are not out of government. There is relationship with the government, but that is indirect. The criminals, they do not appreciate the service of the government. Government is bothered about his existence. Some extra... Instead of receiving some service from him to the state, the state has got to spend unnecessarily for him. That is a botheration. So those who are in indirect relationship with Krsna, they are botheration. They are simply giving trouble to Krsna, but there is relationship.
Hayagriva: Is the humorous direct or indirect? One in humor?
Prabhupada: Humor, humor is practically in every direct relationship. And indirect also, there is humor. "I am thinking of you as enemy" -- that is also another type of humor. (Chuckles) Yes.
Pradyumna: Do the five direct rasas take place between jiva souls also when they are...
Prabhupada: Everything for jiva souls, all relationship. Krsna is one, the Supreme, and all the jiva souls are part and parcel of Krsna. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly. Jiva soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called maya, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God," "There is no God." This is maya. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Krsna consciousness treatment, and the maya will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Krsna." Then he comes to the direct relationship. Anyone, so-called spiritualist or transcendentalist, if he is claiming that "There is no God," "I am God," "There is voidness," these are all disturbing positions, different symptoms of this disease of maya. It is disease. How one can think of, that he is God? That means he does not know what is God. If I say here that "I am President Nixon," would you accept it? Would you accept? Any one of you, if I say that "I am President Nixon," will you accept? Why? Why? Why? Why you do not accept me? I say, "I am President Nixon." Why do you not accept? Why?
Woman: I would say you are if you say you are.
Kirtanananda: You don't have the characteristics.
Prabhupada: No. That means you are not rascal. You are sane, that you do not accept me as President... That is one thing. At least you are not insane. So if I say, "God," and you accept, then how much insane you are. Just try to understand. How much insanity is there, one who is claiming that "I am God" and one who is accepting that he is God. This is insanity.
Woman: Are we not all one?
Prabhupada: One is... That is different thing. You are not one with President Nixon?
Woman: Yes.
Prabhupada: Then are you President Nixon?
Woman: He's a human being. He's part of me.
Prabhupada: That's all right. He is American. He is human being. In so many qualities you are one. But you cannot claim for that, you are President Nixon. You should understand in that way. In so many respect, qualities, you are one with God, but that does not mean you are God. God is one. That means you have no complete understanding. Just like in spite of your becoming American or human being, you deny to identify yourself with President Nixon because you have full knowledge of President Nixon and yourself. And as soon as you say, "I am God," that means you have no full knowledge of God. You are insane. You do not know what is God. That very thing immediately asserts that you are unknown factor about God. God is said, "Great," but you are claiming that greatness. That means you do not know how great He is. A tiny factor, you are claiming that "I am God," without having that greatness. That means insane, insanity. The same way: if you claim that "I am President Nixon," that is insanity. Similarly, God is, how great He is, how much greater than President Nixon. You deny to become one with President Nixon, and you accept to be one with God? How much insane you are. Just try to understand. Yes?
Child: How many arms does Lord Nrsimhadeva have?
Prabhupada: That you shall know later on. Not now.
Janardana: I've read in Bhagavad-gita that he who knows the self does not do action nor causes action to be done. So what is the soul's, the spirit soul's, relationship to actions performed both in material consciousness and in spiritual, in Krsna consciousness?
Prabhupada: Material consciousness means forgetting God. When one forgets God, that is material consciousness. Material consciousness is called maya. Actually one should not forget. But if he forgets somehow or other, that is material consciousness. Naturally nobody forgets his father and mother. But if, somehow or other, he forgets, that is a special circumstances and that is called maya, illusion. Just like any one of you who are existing, you must have a father and mother. That is a fact. Without father and mother, your existence cannot be. Now, if you cannot say who is your father and mother, if you do not know, this forgetfulness, this is called maya. Actually it should not happen, but somehow or other, if you are asked, "Who is your parents?" You cannot say. This is called maya. But there must be some father and mother. Without father and mother, there cannot be an existence. You cannot deny that. You cannot say, "Oh, I have no father and mother." That is not possible. You may not know who is your father, mother. That is a different thing. But you cannot say, "Oh, I have no father, mother." So this denial, that "I don't believe in God," is a existence like that, one who has forgotten his father and mother. That is maya, and that is material consciousness. Denying God in different way, "There is no God," that is also denial. "I don't believe in God" -- that is also denial. "God is impersonal, void," anyway, whatever you say in that way, that is all insanity, maya. Maya means insanity. Another meaning of maya means insanity. Just like when a man becomes insane, that is false. It is expected that he should not be insane. By treatment he is brought again to his original consciousness. Similarly, maya means insanity, forgetfulness of God. And by Krsna consciousness treatment he comes to the original consciousness. He becomes a cured man. Actually maya means which has no existence. Maya has no existence. But sometimes it is there. Just like the sky's cover. This covering is not reality. The reality is this sky, clear sky, but somehow it is now covered. You cannot see the clear sky. So there is temporary, temporary illusion. Now, if I see the cloud only and if I say, "Oh, there is no sun. There is no illumination," or "There is no clear sky," that is insanity. Because I cannot see-under certain circumstances, I deny it -- that is my insanity. Therefore you have to approach to a man who knows that there is sunlight, there is sun, there is clear sky... If you go there... You require all this education, knowledge. By knowledge one transcends maya, or material existence. What is the difference between ordinary man and Krsna conscious man? They are also living in this world, in this apartment. Everything is being utilized like others. We are also eating, sleeping also. But what is the difference? Our difference -- that we accept that everything belongs to Krsna; others do not. That's all. That is maya. Everything actually belongs to Krsna. He does not know. He thinks, "It belongs to me," or "This, my nation, this, my country, this, that," so many things. He is manufacturing. And we know the simple truth, that everything belongs to Krsna. So let everything be offered to Krsna. That's all. Yes.
Kirtanananda: So we understand that in the material consciousness the living entity is being forced to act.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: His actions are quite automatic under the laws of material nature.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, action is there. Because you are living entity, you are active.
Kirtanananda: Yes, but they are being dictated.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like a man in fever talking nonsense. So that is due to fever.
Kirtanananda: In Krsna consciousness, are the actions of the jiva similarly controlled by Krsna's superior energy?
Prabhupada: Yes, certainly.
Kirtanananda: But everything is being controlled ultimately by Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: Either by inferior energy or superior energy.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Kirtanananda: So his activities are never independent, either in Krsna or...
Prabhupada: Never, never, never. That is his insanity, another. As soon as he thinks that "I am independent," that is another insanity. He is under control. Just like the same man. He is thinking, "I don't care for state laws." He is insane. He will be forced to accept state laws in the prison house by the police. But he thinks, "Oh, I am free man." Still... He is slapped by the police. He says, "Oh, I am independent. Go on slapping." This is insanity. Is it not insanity? The police slaps him, and he says, "I am independent." Do you think independence? So that sort of independence we are having. We are kicked by maya always, and we are thinking, "independent." This is insanity. He does not think, "Why I am independent? I am servant of my senses. I cannot remain, enjoying senses, for an hour, and I am thinking I am independent." That means insane. He cannot think properly. Where is his independence? Cannot be independent. He is born dependent because part and parcel of God. His constitutional position is dependent. Just like child. A child declares independence. What is the meaning of that independence? Danger. That's all. Simply inviting dangers. A child wants: "Oh, I don't care for my parents. I shall cross the road. I shall go everywhere." So if he is allowed to do that, that means he is simply inviting dangers. And if he remains under the protection of the parents, he is always safe. So this living entity's declaring independence means he is insane, different kinds of insanity. He cannot be independent. Let him think very deeply that it cannot be independent. He is thinking independent of God, but he is dependent on his sense pleasure. That's all. And some intoxication, a voluntarily accept dependence of something maya. That's all. Who is independent. Is there anyone independent? Nobody is independent. To think of independence is maya. Best thing is that "I am dependent, and let me remain dependent in properly. Then I am protected." That is Krsna consciousness. So your question is answered? Material consciousness means thinking falsely independent. That is material consciousness. Falsely. He is not independent, but he is thinking falsely, "I am independent." This is maya. Just like in dream he is falsely thinking there is a tiger. There is no tiger, but he is actuated by this false impression, "Oh, tiger is eating me. It has attacked me. Save me." So this material existence means because he is insane, he is thinking there are so many problems, "The tiger is there. He is attacking me. This, that, so many enemies, friends...," creating so many things. But they are all false. But he is attacked by that false hallucination. That's all. This is maya. Everyone is thinking, "Oh, there are so many problems I have to solve. I have to make this, that, this, so many." But he has no problem. He has no problem. His only problem is how to accept Krsna. That's all. And Krsna is so kind. He says, "Yes, you accept Me. Simply chant Krsna. I am yours. That's all." But my, I am so misfortunate that I cannot chant even. All problems solved simply by chanting Krsna. Etadrsi tava krpa bhagavan. Caitanya Mahaprabhu teaches that "O Krsna, You are so kind that You have come to Me in the sound vibration, word, 'Krsna.' I can very easily chant, and You remain with Me. But I am so misfortunate that I have no attraction even for this." You say people, "You chant Krsna; you get everything." They will not believe it. If you say, "You press your nose. You pay me fifty dollars. I'll give you some nice mantra and this, that. You make your head like this, leg like this," "Oh," he'll say, "here is something." Something. "And this Swamiji says, 'Simply chant Krsna.' Oh, what is this?" Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, etadrsi tava krpa bhagavan mamapi durdaiva: "But I am so unfortunate that You have become so easily available in this age, but I am so unfortunate, I cannot accept it." So the Krsna consciousness so easily being distributed, but they are so unfortunate, they cannot accept. Just see. And you give them bluff, you cheat them -- they will, "Ah, yes, welcome. Yes." They'll welcome it. And cheaters are always ready: "Oh, there are so many customers for being cheated. Let me take advantage of it." So my Guru Maharaja used to say, "This world is the society of cheaters and cheated." The members are somebody are cheating, and somebody are cheated. The association of cheaters and cheated. So we want to save them from this society of cheaters and cheated.
Janardana: Prabhupada, often when we'll be performing, doing some activity during our day, and so many things will go wrong, and we become frustrated...
Prabhupada: Well, when one is a professional, there may be something wrong. That doesn't matter. But you try to discharge your duties, rightly, whatever you are prescribed to do. Then everything will come to the right point. Your only business is to follow the four principles of regulative life and chant Hare Krsna sixteen rounds. So there may be sometimes mistake. That will be corrected automatically. Because we are coming from a different platform, so it may be. And that is also said in the Bha... Api cet su-duracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak, sadhur eva sa mantavyah: [Bg. 9.30] "If one is found doing mistake or doing something wrong, but because he is sticking to this principle of Krsna consciousness, he is sadhu." Sadhu means a holy man. He is holy. He is not doing any wrong consciously. But due to habit... Suppose just like most of you were, in your former life, you were smoking or taking intoxication. But by some influence, if you sometimes take to it, yes, if you are conscious, "Oh, I have done wrong," but that is excused if you have done unconscious. But if you think that "Now I am Krsna conscious. Whatever I do, it is right," then it is great sin. But accidentally it happens -- that is excused. Never mind. So accidental mistake is not dangerous. Willful mistake is dangerous. That we should be careful. We should be very careful always so that accidental mistakes also may not take place. But if it takes place, it is excused.
Devotee: Can hatha-yoga hinder or help Krsna consciousness, or is it...?
Prabhupada: Hinder. Yes. Because it is useless, simply wasting time. You cannot perform hatha-yoga in this age. You do not follow the rules and regulations. You are simply bluffed. Do you know what is the rules and regulations of hatha-yoga factually?
Devotee: Not actually.
Prabhupada: Yes. You have to select a secluded place. Hatha-yoga is not practiced in assembly of so many men. Just you go to a hatha-yoga class. There are hundreds of members practicing, and he is collecting money, five dollars per seat. And you are thinking, "I am practicing." That is useless waste of time and money. Hatha-yoga is not practiced in that way. You have to practice in a secluded place, alone. Do you do that?
Devotee: Yes. Not... No. I guess I don't.
Prabhupada: It is very difficult in this age. Then you have to restrain yourself in so many things. Complete free from sex life. You have to eat under certain direction, you have to... So many things there are. These rules are not followed. Simply they have got some bodily gymnastic sitting posture. They are thinking, "I am practicing." No. That is one of the items. So all the items cannot be observed in this age. Therefore it is wasting. [ "...yogis, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all." This is the goal of yoga practice. So that is possible very easily by this movement, Krsna consciousness, not by any other process. And the ultimate goal is here. One should be always abiding with God, worshiping Him, transcendental loving service, and intimately united with Him, intimately. This intimate unity means that five kinds of relationship. That is the perfection of yoga. When Krsna has advised yoga practice, sankhya-yoga... You have Bhagavad-gita? There is sankhya-yoga. You'll find in the forty-seventh verse. This is the version.
Devotee: There's no value in keeping the body fit through exercise?
Prabhupada: Yes, you can become very healthy. But does it mean that health is the perfection of life? Do you mean to say healthy life will not die, will not change his body? So health is required, but health is not the ultimate goal of life. Ultimate goal of life is here.
Guest (3): Buddha taught very similar things to what the Gita taught also, didn't he? Are there agreeances there, agreement in certain places what Buddha taught and what the Gita teaches?
Prabhupada: Do you follow this Buddha?
Guest (3): Uh, no.
Prabhupada: You simply talk of him? You practice Buddha if you appreciate him. You give up everything like Buddha and meditate. But that you will not do. Then what is the talking of, useless talking about this? Do something. Either you believe Buddha or Jesus Christ or Krsna. Do something. Don't talk simply. Lord Buddha is very nice. He gave up his kingdom in youthful life. He was prince. He thought, "It is all nonsense. Let me meditate." Do like that. That is the disease. We won't do anything. We talk much of this, that, this, that. Do anything, but do it perfectly. "Jack of all trade, master of none." That is not good. Be master of something. It doesn't differ. Either you follow Lord Jesus Christ or Lord Buddha or Krsna, it doesn't matter much. But do it perfectly. That is our request. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
