Prabhupada: ...magazine?
Mayor: No. I know about the article on the crime and I have
it at home, but I have not read it as yet. But we certainly know that it's a
tremendous problem in the United States, perhaps throughout the world and
certainly here.
Prabhupada: It is not a problem. Just like there is disease,
and there is remedy also. And as much as the disease is chronic, the remedy is
also costly. So in the western countries -- do not mind -- they are not trying
to educate first-class men, and that is the difficulty. This advancement,
technical knowledge, to have nice motor cars or big, big buildings, highways,
this is very good, but this is not the aim of life.
Mayor: No, material things should not be.
Prabhupada: They are missing the aim of life. That is the...
The aim of life is, an..., not according to Vedic, but anyone, the aim of life
is how to realize God. That is aim. In the animal life or in other lives less
important than the human being there is no question of God realization. In the
human life, the civilized human life, there is religion. It doesn't matter
whether one is Christian or a Hindu or a Muslim or a Buddhist. These are the
principle religions of the world. So any civilized man must be inquisitive to
know what is the original source of everything. That philosophy is there. It is
called Brahma-sutra or Vedanta-sutra. Perhaps you have heard the name, Vedanta
philosophy. Veda means knowledge, and anta means end. In the materialistic way
of knowledge they did not find any end, and they accept it "That this is
progress." But one must come to the end of the knowledge, what is the ultimate
knowledge. So generally they are missing what is the ultimate knowledge. We are
searching after knowledge in so many ways but what is the ultimate knowledge?
The ultimate knowledge, Vedanta, means end of knowledge. End of knowledge means
to understand the original source of everything. Athato brahma jijnasa. The
human inquisitiveness should be up to that point, what is the origin of
everything. Because human life is not a spot. That... The western people are
lacking that understanding. We are thinking that this duration of life, say, for
fifty to a hundred years, that is all. No. That is the first instruction in the
Bhagavad-gita, that this body is not everything. We have to accept another body
after death. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. As we are accepting different
bodies in our this span of life from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to
youthhood, from youthhood to old age... So this is the example. And after this
old age, after this body is useless, then I accept another body. And again
another chapter of life begins. And on my next life, next body I am creating,
karanam guna-sangah asya, infection. Just like if I infect some disease, I am
creating that disease. If I infect smallpox disease, then I must develop that
disease. How it is, subtle way, working, that we cannot see. But if somewhere I
have infected some disease, somewhere it will be manifest. It will manifest. You
cannot check it. So in this material world there are three qualities: goodness,
passion, and ignorance. So as we associate, we develop a type of body. So these
crimes means they do not get good association. Naturally they are developing.
And now these boys, they are also Americans and Europeans. They are getting good
association, and they are becoming free from all bad habits. We generally take
bad character on the basis of illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and
gambling.
Mayor: Yes.
Prabhupada: So they were habituated to all... Because that is
a system in the European, American life. But now they are free. That is
Professor Judah's remark in his letter. Have you got that? Yes. He has written
one book, Hare Krsna and Counterculture, about our movement. He has read all our
books. Here are, you have shown all these books? So he appreciates, many
gentlemen appreciate, even the priestly class, they also appreciate. So this is
a movement which is trying to create at least a section to become first-class.
The first-class man does not mean that he is nicely dressed or very rich or very
opulent. Generally, of course, a first-class man means good parentage, good
education, good looking and nicely rich. That is the standard. But... That may
be first-class position, but first-class man is different. First-class man means
he is self-controlled, in the mind he is undisturbed, he is truthful, he is very
clean, inside and outside, he is very simple, tolerant, full of knowledge,
practical application of knowledge, and believe in God. This is first-class man.
There is no mention that he is rich, he is beautiful, bodily, or he is educated.
Educated, this is a result of education. Real education means that he is self
controlled. Controlling the mind, controlling the senses, truthful. He will
speak truth in any circumstances. Even to his enemy he will speak the truth. And
clean, and very simple, tolerant. And any knowledge, he has got some, I mean to
say, strength over it. Ultimate knowledge, Brahman, he believes in that and he
has... Brahma janatiti brahmanah, This is first-class man. So it is not expected
that everyone will become first-class. but there must be a section in the
society, ideal first-class. And they will be advisor to the rest. These
brahmanas, they will not take part in politics, but those who are politicians,
administrators, they should take advice from these first-class men, how to rule,
how to control, what is the ideal. So the ruling class, they are called
ksatriyas. So find out this verse, samah damah...
Tamala Krsna: You want about the ksatriya or the
brahmanas?
Prabhupada: Brahmana, ksatriya.
Tamala Krsna:
samo damas tapah saucam
ksantir arjavam eva ca
jnanam vijnanam astikyam
brahma-karma svabhava-jam
[Bg. 18.42]
"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance,
honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness -- these are the qualities by
which the brahmanas work."
Prabhupada: This is first-class man. And the second-class
man?
Tamala Krsna:
sauryam tejo dhrtir daksyam
yuddhe capy apalayanam
danam isvara-bhavas ca
ksatram karma svabhava-jam
[Bg. 18.43]
"Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in
battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the
ksatriyas."
Prabhupada: That is second-class. And the third-class?
Tamala Krsna:
krsi-goraksya-vanijyam
vaisya-karma svabhava-jam
paricaryatmakam karma
sudrasyapi svabhava-jam
[Bg 18.44]
"Farming, cattle raising and business are the
qualities..."
Prabhupada: They are not cattle raising, that was...
Tamala Krsna: Cow protection.
Prabhupada: Cow protection. It has to be corrected. It is
go-raksya, go. They take it cattle-raising. I think Hayagriva has translated
like this.
Tamala Krsna: Hayagriva.
Prabhupada: No, it is especially mentioned go-raksya.
Krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam vaisya-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.44]. And
then...?
Tamala Krsna: Paricaryatmakam karma sudrasyapi
svabhava-jam.
Prabhupada: And to serve under somebody, that is sudra. So at
the present moment people are being educated to serve under somebody.
Technology, one is very expert in some particular line of technology, say,
computer machine... You know how to operate. It is a big qualification. But
unless he gets a job under some big establishment, he is useless. He cannot live
independently. The first-class man will live independently. The second-class man
also will live independently. And the third-class men, they will also live
independently. And those who cannot live independently, they are fourth-class
men. So at the present moment we are simply creating fourth-class men. So
fourth-class men, they are prone to be degraded. If you don't raise them to
become first-class, they must degrade. So that is the position of the present
civilization. They are creating all fourth-class men, and gradually they are
degrading. So now you should take up very seriously how you can create some
first-class men. First-class, second-class, third-class also. If you simply
remain in the fourth grade, technology... Technology means he has to serve under
somebody. This industry, that is also the same thing. Hundreds and thousands of
men are working. They are fourth-class men. And sudra. Just like formerly in
Indian village... Still there are. They are self-supported. Suppose there is a
blacksmith. If you require some black iron instrument, you go there and he will
prepare immediately. Say, an oil crusher, extracting oil. So weaver,
self-supported. Now these things have been taken in larger scale. That is called
industry. But actually these things are meant for the sudras, fourth-class men.
So the problem is that if we keep men fourth-class or increase only fourth-class
men, so these things are automatic, the resultant action. Therefore, in the
western countries especially, everywhere, all over the world, the attempt should
be how to create first-class, second-class. At least these two classes required:
good politicians, administrators, and good advisors. So this program we are
placing before the world. This is Krsna consciousness movement. So I would
suggest that in your country you are resourceful. You can take up this movement
very seriously. And it is not expected that cent percent of the population will
become first-class, but there must be ideal groups of first-class, second-class,
third-class and the rest, fourth-class. That is required.
Mayor: It takes a great deal of discipline to try to achieve
these ideals, and that's one thing that seems to be difficult these days,
especially in young people, to have any sense of the need for discipline at
all.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Jagadisa: He says young people today have no sense of
discipline. They don't know what it means to be...
Prabhupada: How they can be? They are not trained up. They
are not trained up from the very beginning. For being trained up, there is
another four divisions, brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, sannyasa. These are
the training divisions. So for the first-class, second-class, third-class, all
the students, they are trained up as brahmacari, student life. Brahmacari means
celibacy, live under the direction of the teacher and accept all kinds of
hardship under the teacher's or spiritual master direction. Children, they can
easily take it. If a child, a small child, I ask him, "My dear child, you take
my shoes and keep it there," he will immediately agree. He has no sense, "Oh, he
is asking me to take his shoes." He will immediately agree. Even he is very rich
man's son. So this life is advised that a student live just like a menial
servant of the teacher or the spiritual master. And they agree. We have got good
instances. And he is coming from the first-class family, brahmana family or
ksatriya family or vaisya family, first, second, third. So even sudra family, he
can learn also. So brahmacari. Then he is, if he can remain without wife or
without opposite sex, then he continues to remain as brahmacari. He is
encouraged. This process encourages to remain brahmacari, that "Don't take to
sex life, it is entailed with so many difficulties. Practice to remain a
brahmacari. You'll save so much trouble." But if he is unable -- the teacher
sees-Then he is allowed to marry, marriage. If he is trained up brahmacari, when
he marries, he lives with wife under rules and regulation, not like cats and
dogs. And then, because he had previous training, at a certain age he gives up
family life. That is called vanaprastha. Pancasordhvam vanam vrajet. The
vanaprastha life is accepted, generally, after fiftieth year, not earlier. Then
the husband and wife travels all over, I mean to say, spiritual sanctified
places. In India there are so many places. So in this way, there is no sex in
the vanaprastha. Simply the wife remains as assistant. And she also practices
austerities. And then the husband, when he is fully mature, he sends wife back
to his elderly children to take care of her and he takes sannyasa. So this is
spiritual advancement, and in sannyasa life, one is absolutely dedicated for the
service of God. So in this way his life becomes perfect. And according to his
perfection, he gets next birth in higher planetary system. In the upper planets,
planetary system, there is Svargaloka up to the third-class man. And then, above
that, there are Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapaloka, Satyaloka, Brahmaloka. And beyond
that, there is spiritual world. So in this way life becomes perfect. If you
want, you can go to the spiritual world. Spiritual world means no more accepting
this material body. And so long we are in this material world we repeat one body
after another. And if we degrade ourself to become criminals, then we degrade to
the hellish planets down this universe. So human civilization means by nature's
way, by evolutionary process, he has come to this body of human being. He should
now decide that whether he should remain in this chain of birth and death or he
should get out of it and go to the spiritual world. This training required. So
throughout the whole world there is no such institution to study all this fact.
They are going just like fourth-class men. They have decided out of their own
accord that there is no life after death. Young men say that there is no old
age, but nature will not agree. Your next life is old age. That is natural. You
cannot say, "No, no, I don't believe in it." You believe or not believe, it will
come. Similarly, you believe or not believe, your next life is there. That is
described in the Bhagavad-gita. Find out.
dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]
Tamala Krsna: You want the translation to it?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: "As the embodied soul continually passes, in
this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into
another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a
change."
Prabhupada: So this education is required. America is
resourceful and they are intelligent. And the movement is already there, Hare
Krsna movement, people are appreciating gradually. So if we get little
cooperation from the authorities, we can push on this movement more solidly. So
you are the chief of this city. If you give us some facility, then we can be
useful to counteract this position.
Mayor: Well, we'd like to cooperate and we certainly need a
different approach I think because we're not being successful now in trying
to...
Prabhupada: No, this way will never be successful. It will
degrade more and more. So our process is very simple. That is the Caitanya
Mahaprabhu's contribution, that we chant... Where is that letter? Professor
Judah's? Just read that.
Brahmananda: "I feel certain my book will help people both to
understand the teachings of Krsna the of His descent as Caitanya and to realize
how Krsna consciousness has transformed lives from drug-addicted hippies to
loving servants of Krsna and humanity."
Prabhupada: This is his study. He has written a book. So we
can stop this, provided we are given the facility to work on.
Mayor: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. So I was thinking. Just in front there is a
very nice house, big house. You have knowledge about this house?
Mayor: No, I...
Prabhupada: What is that building?
Sri Govinda: Merrywood.
Mayor: Oh, we are right across the street from Merrywood,
yes, uh huh, which we're going to have as a city hall.
Prabhupada: Oh. You have decided?
Mayor: Yes, uh huh, about, oh, just two weeks ago actually,
the council...
Prabhupada: So is it not possible to use this house at least
for some time for this movement?
Mayor: The, er... I'm not sure what the time schedule is, but
it's my impression that they were going to start remodeling it for city purposes
later this year. It's about a three million dollar project, both for the
purchase of the land from the sisters and the remodeling to make it suitable for
various city needs. And then they're going to... The city is now located at nine
different locations, that is, their facilities. And they're trying to
incorporate them all in this one place so that when people need city services,
they can just go one place and get all the...
Prabhupada: But this is more important. City service is going
on, but criminals are increasing. So why not give us little opportunity?
Mayor: Well, I could certainly discuss this with the city
manager and see what could be worked out.
Sri Govinda: Possibly we could invite the city manager also
to come to discuss with Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: No. So if we get a good place with the
cooperation of the authorities, then our simple program is that, as Professor
Judah has remarked, drug-addicted hippies, they have been turned into devotees.
We shall invite anyone to come and chant this Hare Krsna mantra and take
prasadam and we are... I began this movement in New York alone, and these boys
gradually came to me, but my process was this: chanting and giving them
prasadam. He is one of the original student. He was. So this process, very
simple process, everyone will be able to accept it. Chant, dance, and take
prasadam. Within that process, everything is there. Then he will understand.
They will read these books... They are practical examples. I am poor Indian, I
did not bribe them neither I have money. (laughter) So now they have dedicated
their life for this purpose. So I want to do it in a large scale.
Mayor: Yes.
Prabhupada: But I have no money. So if the authorities give
me a place, and for feeding them necessary foodstuff, then I am sure it will be
successful. These two things I want. I don't want any charges for my mantra, no.
My mantra is open, Hare Krsna, and there is no charge for it. And I have no
necessity. I require a little clothing and two capatis. That's all. Anyone can
bring. I thought Chicago is one of the important cities of your country. And
when I first came, I saw this is vacant. So I thought if this house can be
utilized in the beginning and we invite anyone, especially young men, come here,
live with us at least for one week and associate with this chanting, dancing,
and we give nice prasadam. There is no difficulty. We can attempt. And if the
authorities give us this facility at least for one year then we shall talk of
permanent. They can see the result.
Mayor: Would you use the facility, then, as sort of a center
for all over the United States?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. We invite. As soon as they have got a
leisure hour, let them come and live with us for one week and see the result.
They can remain forever. It doesn't matter. But for experimental sake they can
come, live with us and associate with us. It is not difficult. And we invite
everyone. We have no such discrimination that black, white, Hindu, Muslim,
Christian, no. Anyone. It is universal. Because we consider every living entity
is part and parcel of God. That is a fact. We are teeny gods, part and parcel.
The same quality we have got -- in minute quantity. Quality is the same,
quantity is less. So God is good, so we are also good. But we have become bad
under circumstances. Just like under infection, one becomes diseased. So if we
cure that infection, again he becomes good. So it is the curing process. It is
not an external artificial thing, imposed upon somebody, no. His goodness is
there. Just like generally a man is healthy, but by infecting some disease he
becomes diseased. So this material way of life is a kind of infection. So we
have to cure that. And this is our process. And it has become successful. So
therefore this problem of your country... I was this morning also lecturing that
"You take up this movement very seriously and save your country." And if you
save America, means you save the whole world because others are following
America. So you can do it very easily. That is my appeal to the authorities of
the American administration. But I do not want anything. For your countrymen,
for your misguided youthful generation, you have to do it. That is my request.
Otherwise there is no other way.
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
No comments:
Post a Comment