December 13, 1973
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Prabhupada: ...is contamination. Just
like when a person is diseased, you find so many extra chemicals in his body. So
a diseased person produces such chemicals, not that chemicals are the agents for
his life. Try to understand. When a living entity is pure, when he becomes
impure, these chemicals are produced out of... Exactly the same thing, just like
when a man becomes contaminated, infected with some disease, you will find so
many extra things, germs and chemicals in his body. So these extra chemicals,
germs, are not responsible for his living condition. Because he is living and
because in an awkward condition, therefore these things have been produced by
him.Svarupa Damodara: But how about the normal chemicals which
are...
Prabhupada: Normal chemicals must be. Then of the whole world... The
material world is made of chemicals. So wherever you go and see, the chemicals
in different, what is called, element, they are present. You cannot see but
chemicals because you have no eyes to see the soul. So you simply see the
chemicals which is produced by the soul. Just like anything you keep for some
time, when it is decomposed, you find so many chemicals, extra. So now they are
mistaking. The chemicals are not... They are effects, they are not cause. When a
thing is decomposed, you'll find so many extra chemicals. Our point is that
because a thing is decomposed, so many chemicals come out, not that on account
of these chemicals it has given... A dead body. A dead body -- not that because
the chemicals have come, therefore he is dead, no. Because the body is dead,
therefore so many chemicals have been produced. Try to convince this rascal like
that, that "You are seeing the extra chemicals. They are not cause, they are
effect." Sometimes when a rascal cannot understand two things, which is cause
and which is effect, they misunderstand effect as cause or cause and effect.
That is imperfect knowledge, illusion, taking the effect as cause. That is their
mistake. Whole basic principle of their knowledge is mistake, illusion, on
account of imperfect senses, and they are cheating. On account of imperfect
senses, they cannot understand what is cause and what is effect. And without
knowledge, they have become teacher. Therefore they are not teacher but cheater.
This is the conclusion.
Svarupa Damodara: Even if these chemicals are made,
Srila Prabhupada, if the environment is not favorable to enter the soul, then
the chemicals...
Prabhupada: Therefore I say on account of the environment,
these chemicals are produced. Therefore I say. When a man is diseased -- the
environment has changed-other extra chemicals comes out. It is the environment.
I am also pointing out that. The environment is the cause. Chemicals produced in
the body of a dead body, you cannot produce in the laboratory because the
environment is different. Unless you find out a dead body, that chemicals you
cannot manufacture. How can you find out the chemicals of dead body in a living
body? Get up. Yes. (laughing) So pay; then the chemical is produced. Without
payment, then there is no chemical. Cause is the payment. These rascals, they do
not understand this. [break] ...goes to fight in Vietnam, what is the
philosophy? Who will answer?
Svarupa Damodara: They want to stop spread of
communism.
Prabhupada: Yes. Similarly, now America has to do the same thing
to stop demonism. Then your nation will be leader. You understand; you have
trust in God. Now it is your business to trust in real God and work for Him. You
cannot... I have explained already. You cannot stop communism. You have to stop
demonism. That is your real business. Communism is another type of demonism. So
if you remain a demon, so what is the use of stopping another demonism? The same
example: stool, the upside is dried up. You cannot say, "Because it is upside of
stool, it is better side." Stool is stool. Guer ei pita en opita. (?) (dog
barking loudly) Come on. That's all right. He cannot make the condition of the
world better by... Just like Professor Kotofsky. He was saying that there must
be revolution. I was talking of authority. So the authority you must have to
accept. So he said that authority is accepted upon revolution.
Svarupa
Damodara: After revolution?
Prabhupada: Ah. Because I said about authority...
So this is fact. Now, in Russia the authority was the Czar. Now, after this
Bolshevik revolution, Lenin became authority. That was his point. I said that
you have to accept one authority. That you cannot change. That he said, that
"Yes, that I accept, but authority has to be changed by revolution." And yes, we
accept that. But the ult... When you come to Krsna consciousness authority, then
there is no more necessity of change." Yam labdhva caparam labham manyate
nadhikam tatah. Everyone is trying to achieve the greatest profit. So when he
gets Krsna, he is satisfied. No more profit. Final profit. Yam labdhva caparam
labham manyate nadhikam tatah. So there is no more necessity of revolution
because that is the ultimate peaceful condition. So if you do not come to the
ultimate condition of peace, then this revolutionary method will go on,
continue. There will be no cessation of revolution, one after, one... That is
maya, illusion. I am thinking by going a few steps, mirage, I will get the
water. But there is no water at all. It is simply illusion. And as soon as you
go a few steps forward, you see that the water has gone away, again, few steps
forward. You go again. Again you see. This is going on. So animal, they go
forward after the mirage. But a sensible man, he knows that "This is not water.
It appears like water, but it is not water." Therefore we are making revolution,
changing one authority from another, but we do not know they are not
authorities. Real authority is Krsna. That is their... Therefore it is called
illusion or maya. We are thinking that "From this ism to that ism." Just like
there was French Revolution. So the French people are not happy. Still there is
unhappiness. Similarly, Bolshevism. We have seen practically in Moscow. Nobody
is happy. There cannot be happiness. This is going on. So real happiness is
Krsna. That, people should know. The chemical evolution also, it is also maya.
They are thinking by further improvement, just like you were speaking, almost
come to the point... That "almost coming to the point," that will continue. You
will never come to the point. This is the position. You'll never come to the
right point.
Svarupa Damodara: When the concept of chemical evolution, when
this fails, then they have to accept that there is a Supreme Being. This will
also fail.
Prabhupada: No, this will fail. It is already failed. But because
they are...
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, but they are still hoping.
Prabhupada:
...they are fools and rascals, they are still hoping against hope. That's it. It
is already failed.
Svarupa Damodara: They are not fully convinced
yet.
Prabhupada: Because they are not intelligent. There is a Bengali word,
dekhe sekhe teke seke. (?) Mean when one who is intelligent, he is seeing the
things, he is understanding, "Oh, the consequence of such action is this." So...
And another man is so fool. Unless he is actually in that position, he will not
learn. One is learning by seeing only and another is learning by actually being
in that position. So who is intelligent?
Yasomatinandana: One who is learning
by seeing.
Prabhupada: Yes. One who knows that these material things, it has
got a beginning and it has got an end... In every day we see that. Even with our
body we see that it has a beginning and it has an end. I have seen my father was
born and he died. So I am also born; I'll also die. My son is also born; my son
will die. This is real experience. But if somebody says that "I shall not die.
We are trying to become immortal," so that is foolishness. That is foolishness.
By experience from time immemorial, historical reference, there is no such thing
as immortality. But if somebody says, "By chemical evolution we shall become
immortal..." Our Krsna consciousness proposition is that human life is meant for
factual knowledge or ultimate knowledge. But these rascals are checking that
progress. That means the prerogative of human life is being denied to the human
society. So this kind of hindrances should be stopped, either by soliciting or
even by force, because the human society is being ruined. These things have to
be stopped. Therefore I was inquiring that "Why American went to Vietnam?" To
stop communism, but that sort of stopping will not make any solution. We have to
stop demoniac civilization. Then the human society will be happy and in normal
condition. [break]
Prajapati: As soon as we define what demoniac civilization
is, then no one will support us because they'll see that they themselves are
demons.
Prabhupada: Yes, because they are demons they cannot understand. Just
like one Christian priest went to some quarters, mine, gold mine. So he was
describing that "If you do not worship Lord Jesus Christ, you will go to hell."
So they asked, "What is hell?" So when he began to describe -- "It is always
wet. It is dark. There is no sufficient air, so on, so on" -- they could not
understand what is hell because they are already in the hell, in the mine. They
could not make any distinction that darkness is a very horrible thing.
Similarly, these demons they cannot understand what is demonism. Asuram bhavam
asritah [Bg. 7.15]. What is that asura-bhava? Not to accept God. This is
asura-bhava. This is demonism. This is the basic principle of... Everyone is
trying to deny God. Therefore they are demons. Who was telling that the medical
man is considered to be first-class authority?
Devotee: That was
Prajapati.
Prajapati: That's what the people believe. They have more trust in
medical men than they do in anything else.
Prabhupada: Yes. But medical man
also does not understand what is that thing missing which makes this body dead.
And still, he is placing himself as authority, as scientific man, and people are
accepting. That is demonism. He cannot explain. A man is dying. He is applying
his scientific processes, what is called that gas, oxygen gas, and other
injection, and in spite of doing all these things, he finds at a moment that the
man is dead. And when you ask him that "In spite of your all scientific
appliances, why the man is dead?" And still, he has become authority, such
foolish man that this man cannot explain that in spite of all his efforts,
scientifically, a man is dead. Now what he will answer? He has seen his all
kinds of scientific appliances and applied but the man is dead. Now let him
explain why the man is dead. Can he explain?
Prajapati: Not to our
satisfaction.
Prabhupada: No, no, satisfaction or not satisfaction, what he
will answer possibly? Now, you are scientist. You can... What he will
say?
Svarupa Damodara: He will say that it is above his means.
Prabhupada:
Therefore you are a fool. Why you are becoming authority?
Svarupa Damodara:
He will say that "I have tried my best, but I cannot do it."
Prabhupada:
That's all right. That means you do not know. A child also tries his best, but
he cannot do. That does not mean he becomes authority.
Prajapati: He will say
that there needs to be certain conditions...
Prabhupada: What is that
condition?
Prajapati: ...for the sustenance of life.
Prabhupada: No, no,
certain conditions, that is not... That is vague. You say what is that
condition. Then you are authority.
Prajapati: Electrical charge in the
heart.
Prabhupada: Then do it, do it. Electricity is there.
Prajapati:
Well, they are able to take some people. Their heart has stopped, they seem to
be dead, they inject electrical nodes in the heart and they bring them back to
life.
Prabhupada: Back to life how long?
Prajapati: Life can
continue.
Prabhupada: Continue forever?
Prajapati: No.
Prabhupada:
Then? He'll die. That is another thing. He'll die. Why he'll die? What is that
condition? If you say, "chemical condition," now, as chemist, if you say, "The
chemical condition has changed," we'll reply, "No chemical condition has
changed." So produce life. No chemical condition has changed because life will
come out immediately. So many germs and worms, they will come out. So where is
the chemical condition of producing life is changed? How can you say? But that
life is not coming. That Mr. John, his life is not coming. Therefore he is an
individual soul. Otherwise the chemical condition is there. Otherwise how these
germs and worms are coming out? But Mr. John is not coming. Therefore it is
conclusion that "This is individual soul. He has gone, but he is not coming."
But other living beings are coming out.
Svarupa Damodara: What is the
condition of the soul, innumerable souls, within the body? Like the cells. All
are living cells. These all contain individual souls.
Prabhupada:
Yes.
Svarupa Damodara: So what these individual souls are doing to support
the bigger soul?
Prabhupada: No, they are living individually. Just like
there are many germs in your stool. Because the stool is there, they are living.
That is their perfect condition of living. That's all. But that germs has
nothing to do with this individual soul, Mr. John. Just like I am living, you
are living, but we are all independent different souls. They are living in their
own condition, you are living in your own condition. But when you go to office
to work, you find so many others are also working. But that does not mean they
are dependent on your working or you are dependent on their work. But the
condition is like that.
Svarupa Damodara: But it looks like I am the
proprietor of these souls.
Prabhupada: No, no, you are not proprietor, nobody
is proprietor. You are put into that condition by God. Real proprietor is God.
You are simply placed in that condition, that's all. That is your dependence on
the condition offered by God.
Svarupa Damodara: But just like in a office,
the boss is working and there are different clerks. There are secretaries
helping him.
Prabhupada: Yes, therefore the boss is the chief man who is
giving work: "You like this. You work like this. You work like this. You work
like this."
Svarupa Damodara: So I am the boss.
Prabhupada: No, you are
not boss. You are also one of the workers.
Prajapati: Are you telling how the
stomach to digest and how the hair to grow and how the...
Prabhupada: No, you
are not...
Svarupa Damodara: No, I am talking about the relationship between
my, so many individual souls, the cells, and my spirit soul.
Prabhupada:
Relationship... Wherever you go, there is some relationship. That is... That
inter-relationship is already there. I am walking on this sand. I have got some
relationship. If the sand would have been soft, I could not walk. So the
relationship is there already, intermingled. But what is the central
relationship? That is wanted, to know. That is God.
Svarupa Damodara: But
when the cells, my cells in the body, they are not working, my soul goes away.
As so long as I am here...
Prabhupada: That is your theory that because the
cells were working, the man was living. That is your theory. But our theory is
that because he was there, the cells were working. That is our theory. Because
the soul was there, therefore the cells were working. But you take... That I
have already explained. You take the cause as effect, and effect as... Because
you have no sufficient knowledge. Therefore in illusion, you take the cause as
effect or effect as cause. You do not know what is the cause and what is the
effect.
Prajapati: But the doctors, they can say, "Oh, this man has disease
of the blood. He will die in six months."
Prabhupada: That is experience.
Suppose if I can say that "If you go hundred feet, then you'll fall in the
water," is that very good scientific knowledge? It is a question of experience.
Why do you take it as wonderful? "Oh, he said that if you go a hundred yards,
you'll fall in the water. Now I have fallen in the water." That is your
foolishness. Any fool can say like that. He must have little experience, that's
all. That is not very wonderful thing. Neither it is creation by him.
Experience.
Prajapati: Then they can say, "Well if we can cure this blood
disease, he will live."
Prabhupada: There was one physician in Dacca. He
was... Morning, he was washing his face. So one man was going, and he was
coughing. So he asked that man, "Come here. Where you are going?" So he was a
cultivator -- "I am going to the field." So he said, "Better go home. Don't go
to the field." So he was a respectable physician, so he went back. So his
students asked that, "How is that, you asked him to go home?" So he chastised
his stu..., "You do not know that he is coughing and the sound is like this? He
will die after eight hours." It is experience. The students did not know but he
could understand, "Coughing under such and such sound, it means death after such
and such time." Yes. That, kaviraja can tell. When my father died, the kaviraja
said, "Now you can do the rituals because he will die before next morning." He
said. And actually it so happened. He said me this about ten, eleven o'clock,
and he said exactly, "Before next morning he'll die." So that is experience. If
you say, "After twenty days the month of January is coming," the child cannot
understand, "How father said that twenty days after, January is coming?" But it
is better experience only that one can say, "Today is 10th, and after twenty
days, 1st January, will come." Everything is experience but supreme experience
is Krsna. Therefore if we receive experience from Him, then our experience
becomes perfect. This is our proposal.
Svarupa Damodara: If I am the boss of
my body...
Prabhupada: You are boss of your body in the sense that you can
utilize your body in any manner you like, so much. But there are other condition
which is beyond your... Suppose... so long you are living, you can utilize your
body, your senses, to understand the ultimate goal of life. But you cannot
utilize your life in such a way that you will never die. That is not
possible.
Svarupa Damodara: So I am controlled also.
Prabhupada: Yes. Why
don't you understand that? You are controlled always. [break] You are walking.
This is also controlled. At any moment you can be paralyzed, at any
moment.
Svarupa Damodara: So even I am not the boss of my body,
then?
Prabhupada: No, no. That is said. Why don't you read
Bhagavad-gita?
prakrteh kriyamanani
gunaih karmani
sarvasah
ahankara-vimudhatma
kartaham iti manyate
[Bg.
3.27]
He is being pulled by the ear, by material nature, but he is, rascal,
thinking that "I am the boss." This is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Prakrteh
kriyamanani. Did you not read this? Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah
ahankara-vimudhatma. Puffed up in false egotism, he is thinking that he is boss.
That is illusion. He is not boss. But he is thinking he is boss.
Ahankara-vimudhatma. One who is thinking that "I am boss," he is
ahankara-vimudha. By false egotism and being a rascal, he is thinking like that.
And because everyone is under that impression, therefore we say generally,
"Rascal. Rascal." People may be amazed, "Why this gentleman says everyone
rascal?" But prakrteh kriyamanani, vimudhatma. Bhagavad-gita it is said, "Anyone
who is thinking that he is boss, he's a rascal." [break] ...Scientists struggle
is that he wants to stop the action of prakrti, nature. That is his foolishness.
That is not possible. You cannot become boss of the prakrti. You are under
prakrti. The boss of prakrti is Krsna. mayadhisa. [break] ...guna-sango 'sya
sad-asad-janma-yonisu. You are getting different types of body on account of
your association with the different modes of material nature. Why one soul has
got this body, dog's body, and why one soul has got a human body? Everything is
being done by prakrti, by nature. Now in this human form of body, you get that
discrimination, "What should I do?" If you act like cats and dogs in this life,
then you are missing the chance. You do not take advantage of the power of
discrimination. Bhagavad-gita says, dehantaram: "Another body one gets." So
another body... And next body I can get this dog's body. But you have... In
human form of life you have got the discriminating power not to get the dog's
body, but you can get the body of a god. That you can do. Now it is our
discrimination, "Whether I am going to get a dog's body or god's body." That you
can do. This is human form of body. A dog cannot not do. He has no such
discrimination power. But you can do. So if you do not do that, then you are
missing the opportunity. Yanti deva-vrata devan pitrn yanti pitr-vratah [Bg.
9.25]. This is the verse. Anywhere you like, you can go if you utilize your,
this human form of body properly.
Prajapati: Should also this be the
responsibility of the government to protect people from having to take dog
body?
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the government's duty, that the citizens may
not degrade. That is government's duty. Now, just like a father thinks, "Now,
these children have come under my protection. I must see they get proper
education and make advancement of life." It is the father's duty. And if the
father thinks, "Let him go to hell." That's all. Nowadays fathers are doing like
that. That is not father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that the
citizen must make progress. But they do not know what is means by progress, what
is the aim of life. They do not know. They are demonic. How they will guide?
They think, like cats and dogs, "If you get fatty and you can eat more, then
your life is successful." Their thinking is very poor. Simply physical strength,
they think that is success. But he does not think that physical, the elephant
has physical strength so much, the tiger has physical strength so much, but what
is the use of their life? After all, it is an animal. But they are thinking like
that, "If you get strength like an elephant or like tiger, then your life is
successful." They're thinking like that. But because they do not know what is
the aim of life, what is the goal of life. A dog does not know what is the aim
of life. But even if I say that "This is the aim of life," it will not
understand because the body is different. But a human being can understand.
Therefore there are so many books of knowledge. So if they do not get proper
knowledge, that means they are missing the point. [break] ...tavad abodha-jato
yavan na jijnasata atma-tattvam: "So long one does not come to the point of
understanding the spirit soul, whatever he is doing he is being defeated because
the main point is missing." Like cats and dogs he is accepting this material
body as self, and he is working on that platform. Therefore his life is being
spoiled. [break] Our mission is to save human being from being spoiled like
animals. That is our mission. The greatest humanitarian work.
[break]
Prajapati: Krsna has given us free will to choose or reject the godly
life. Should the government take away that free will of whether they choose
to...
Prabhupada: No, that free will is not to be given. It is already there.
Rather, Krsna says He has given free will, but His personal advice is: "I am now
talking to you the most confidential words." Sarva-guhyatamam. "You stop your
so-called free will. Just surrender to Me." This is the most confidential. "If
you surrender to Me, that is good for you. But if you go on keeping your free
will you'll not be happy." There is also free will. When you come to the Krsna
platform you serve Krsna with free will, not that you become a stone. There is
free will. Just like our devotees they are dressing Krsna nicely, is there no
free will? They are cooking for Krsna. Is there no free will? The free will is
there. The Mayavadi philosopher says, the Buddha philosopher says, that "Stop
this free will, and then you become happy." But our proposition is not to stop
free will but purify free will. Purify. Not stop these eyes. Just if it is
suffering from cataract, cure that cataract. Keep the eyes. And their
proposition, "Get out these eyes and throw it. Then there will be no more seeing
what is right and wrong." That is their proposition. Nirvisesa-vadi. Nirvisesa
means no speciality, no varieties. That is nirvisesa. And sunya, zero. When it
is zero, then there is no question of right and wrong. So our philosophy is not
that. There is no zero, and there is no varieties. We don't say. There is, but
it's purified varieties. Tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nirmalam
means purified. So our process is to purify everything. We don't want to stop.
That is not our proposition. They cannot find out any solution. Therefore they
want to make stop: "Stop this business." Suppose a business is not going very
nicely. It is going at loss. Somebody says, "Close it." But one experienced man
comes: "Why should you close? All right, I shall do it properly. You'll get
profit." So who is better? One, by disappointment, he says, "Close this
business. There is no profit." And another man says, "No, don't close it. We
shall make you profit. We shall show you profit. Just manage it properly." This
is our proposition. We don't say that "Stop all these material activities." No.
Just do it properly so that you get real profit and real benefit. That is our
program. We don't want to make it zero, no. Why shall I make it zero? [break]
...can be taken just like there is business, but the workers, the assistants,
they have no idea who is the proprietor. So everyone is doing something, taking
pocket, something this, take pocket, his pocket, so how the business will go on
nicely? That is being done. Everyone, these rascals, they have no idea who is
the proprietor of this world. So they are doing in their nonsensical way.
Therefore there is confusion. The business is not profitable. But if they
accept, "No, the real proprietor is such and such gentleman, so he wants to do
us like this," then the business will be profitable. Everyone is thinking that
he is proprietor, so how this business will profit? This is the position.
Everyone is thinking that he is the proprietor. He forgets that he is worker. He
is not proprietor. That is the mistake. Therefore the business is mismanaged,
and there is no profit, simply chaos. That is the position. [break] ...says in
the Bhagavad-gita,
bhoktaram
yajna-tapasam
sarva-loka-mahesvaram
suhrdam sarva-bhutanam
jnatva mam
santim rcchati
[Bg. 5.29]
"If you want to stop this chaotic
condition, then accept Me that I am the enjoyer and proprietor of this whole
world, and I am your real friend. Let the business be done on My account, you
take your right salaries, you be happy, and there will be no chaotic condition."
But here the position is that everyone is thinking proprietor, and as far as
possible, he is taking all the money, and other is starving. He is not getting
his salary even. So he also, because he is weak, he cannot steal. The stronger,
he is stealing. There is fight. Just like this chaotic condition of the petrol.
The Arabians thinking that "I am the proprietor. Why shall I give to the
Americans?" Thing is there, but it is chaotic only because they do not accept
the proprietor is God. That is the defect. How you can give freedom for
stealing? Stealing freedom means punishment awaiting you. If I give you freedom
-- "Yes, whatever you like, you can go on stealing" -- that means next stage is
your punishment. That is going on.
Svarupa Damodara: They will say that
proprietor stage is relative.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is relative. Relative means
you are servant. You must satisfy by your service to the proprietor and get your
nice salary and be happy. Tena tyaktena bhunjitha. Whatever He gives, you accept
and be happy. That is Isopanisad. You don't try to encroach upon others. You
receive from the proprietor your emolution (emolument?) or your reward and be
happy. That is Isopanisad. Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. Everything is
God's property. You take your share. You have got right. Just like a father and
the son. There are ten sons. Everyone has got the right to share the property of
the father, but as the father gives, not that I take away the whole property and
others, brothers, may starve. That is not allowed. That is criminal. Here in the
material world everyone has come to get the best profit, without considering
profit for others. Others may go to hell. "Others, let them go to the
slaughterhouse. I must satisfy my tongue." That is material world. "No, why you
are slaughtering other living entities?" "I don't care. I want to eat. That's
all." So you have to pay for that. You cannot put others into difficulty because
God is equally merciful to everyone. But you don't care for God. Therefore you
do whimsically whatever you like. So you are putting yourself in difficulty.
This is the position. [break] ...mahad-gunah. Therefore without God
consciousness, nobody is qualified. Nobody is qualified. Everyone is damned,
condemned. [break] ...asato dhavato bahih. By mental speculation he will simply
prolong his material existence, that's all. And that is troublesome. Material
existence means just this. The dog is material existence. It is a standard of
suffering. But he does not know. Under illusion he is thinking that "I am very
happy." So everyone is thinking that "I am very happy," but he's in condemned
condition. The pig. He is eating stool, living in a filthy place, but he is
getting fat because he is thinking he is very happy. This is called illusion.
You are thinking, "Oh, what a nasty condition. This animal is eating stool and
living in a filthy place." But he is thinking that he is very happy. Unless he
thinks like that, he cannot live in that condition. That is called illusion. He
does not know what is the actual high standard of happiness.
Prajapati:
Highest standard of happiness, Srila Prabhupada, is simply to be in your
association.
Prabhupada: Back to home, back to Godhead, that's all. This is
highest standard of happiness. We are trying to take everyone to that place. Yad
gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama [Bg. 15.6].
Devotees: Thank you.
Jaya Srila Prabhupada. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Jaya. (in
the car) They are, the so-called scientists, they are taking the effects as
cause. That is illusion. Actually the soul has nothing to do with this,
anything, material world, but according to the environment he is creating
certain material condition. [break] I don't require liquor, but if I want to be
intoxicated, then liquor is present.
Svarupa Damodara: Since I am conditioned
in this material body...
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, as soon as I condition, I
create an environment which is material. Therefore these so-called scientists,
they have no eyes to see the spirit. They take this material condition as the
cause of the spirit. And then again, when they find that in spite of presence of
these chemicals, the life is not there, they are bewildered. They say, "Yes, we
are trying to improve." Therefore they do not find the cells in the dead
body.
Svarupa Damodara: They say the cells are also dead in a dead
body.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, they do not find it. Cells may be dead
or they do not find the cells, whatever it may be, but it was dependent on the
life. [break] ...with my so many servants. When I die, the servants also go
away. So you cannot say that "He was living because the servants were there."
You cannot say.
Svarupa Damodara: Because we are individual
persons.
Prabhupada: Yes. The master has gone away. Therefore servants do not
require to serve. They have dispersed. But you say that "Because the servants
were there, the master was existing. Now the servants have left him, he is
dead." You cannot say like that. [break] ...ever car, we are under control. Why
the red light? Red light is control.
Svarupa Damodara: Actually we are
controlled every step.
Prabhupada: Every step.
Karandhara: Any one of
these cars could crash into us. We would not be able to...
Prabhupada: Yes.
As soon as you transgress the law of control, you'll be crashed. So there is
nature's control, and as soon as one goes against nature, he is finished.
[break]
Svarupa Damodara: ...Prabhupada told about the
scientific...
Prabhupada: He was talking of all these materialistic persons
as boka or fools. So I repeat his word. Boka.
Svarupa Damodara:
Insects.
Prabhupada: Boka means fool. You don't say this boka?
Svarupa
Damodara: Boka, insects, is that?
Prabhupada: Insane, yes. So they are all
insane. Anyone who has no clear knowledge what is the aim of life, what is God,
"what is my relationship," one who does not know all these things, he is a boka,
illusioned. He is hovering in darkness. Therefore, whatever he is doing, it is
defeat. That we see practically. So many scientists, so many philosophers,
politicians, are engaged to bring in a better condition in the world, but they
are failure. In the darkness they are working. They do not know. One boka is
trying to excel another boka. This is going on. [break] ...great personality,
Rabindranath Tagore, he used to say, a boka. Actually he is so. What he has
done? He has given some imaginary songs, that's all. What benefit the people
will derive out of it? Simply waste of time, that's all. [break]
Svarupa
Damodara: ...could have written a lot of Vaisnava songs, if he were a
Vaisnava.
Prabhupada: Yes. But he borrowed the idea from Vaisnava. His guru,
not exactly guru... In his zamindari, Golpur, he was going to a Vaisnava, Baul.
But Baul is sahajiya. So he got the idea of Vaisnavism, but because he was not
Vaisnava, he presented his idea in a different way. That is his Gitanjali.
Gitanjali is the depiction of the idea he got from that Baul.
Svarupa
Damodara: His songs are so popular in Bengal.
Prabhupada: No, all over the
world, more or less.
Svarupa Damodara: Even I sang some of his songs when I
was in Calcutta.
Prabhupada: There is idea, some Vaisnava idea.
(end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles
