Melbourne, June 29, 1974
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Prabhupada: ...in the beautiful tomb.
Then how do you go? Either hell or heaven, that doesn't matter. So how do you go
there?Madhudvisa: They say that the material body and the soul join back
together again at the end.
Prabhupada: That is dehantara-prapti, another body.
Madhudvisa: No, they say same body.
Prabhupada: Same body means same material body. The form may be different. The form is actually different, because this form is lying in your tomb. It is not going. Where that... If it has gone, then why the body is here? That is dehantara, another body. How you can say the same body? The same body is lying here. After death, if the same body is going, then why the same body is not going? Why it is lying here? They must be reasonable, not dogmatic. How it is same body?
Satsvarupa: I don't understand their philosophy.
Prabhupada: Pure nonsense. Same body, how can you? The body is here.
Madhudvisa: The body is rotting in the tomb, and then they say that the body at the end of the creation is reconstructed and reunited with the soul.
Prabhupada: That's all right, but not this body. Reconstruct.
Madhudvisa: That they say, this body.
Prabhupada: That is their foolishness. This body, you can say, this is material body; that is also material body. But not this body. Just like you change your cloth. The other cloth also made of cotton, and this is also made of cotton. In the same way, you can say, "the same body," cotton body or dress. But you cannot say that this cloth or this dhoti is going with you. How they can say? This body is lying here. This body means this material body.
Madhudvisa: They will say, "Some things you cannot understand. You must simply accept on faith."
Prabhupada: "You cannot understand" -- that is also good. Suppose a child cannot understand. But there must be some explanation. Otherwise, how in advanced stages one can accept. They will say, "dogmatic." This body means this material body, and this material body has got so many shapes, 8,400,000. So hell means... This is also hellish. A tree is standing for five thousand years or five hundred years. Is it not hellish? If I ask you, "Stand here for five days," you will die. (laughing) If there is such order from the government, "You stand here for so many days..."
Satsvarupa: Naked. Naked too.
Prabhupada: Naked. This is hellish. (dog barking) Now this, another hellish life. His only business is to bark. The master may like to keep a dog, but if he is said that "You also become a dog," he will not agree. Will he agree?
Madhudvisa: But whether he agrees or not, he will become one, if he is too much attached. [break] ...the chief engineer of building the chariots, and all of these people are his assistants.
Prabhupada: Jagannatha will be very much pleased upon you. Yes. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Little service to God is taken as great service. Krsna is so kind. So we should try always to give the best service, best energy, and you become liberated. Actually we cannot give any service to Krsna. He is unlimited. What is the value of our service? But He takes it seriously: "Oh, he is trying to give me some service." Otherwise what service He needs from us? Suppose He has created these big universes, what service we can give? By His will, He can create millions of universes. What service we can give? We... No. These are the chances of service, this Ratha-yatra. God is so great, so big, how we can pack up in the ratha. But this is a chance, that you get Him sit on the ratha and prepare it, manufacture it. Because your energy is engaged for His service, that is accepted. So this example... Just like a small child eating lozenges, and out of that, if he offers father, "Father, take it," and father takes it very serious..., "Ah, very nice." And what is that lozenges to the father? It is nothing. But because the child offers to the father in love, father takes it very seriously: "Oh, you are so nice. Yes, yes, give me." That is stated in Bhagavad-gita. Patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati: [Bg. 9.26] "A leaf, a fruit, a little water." What is the value of these? But yo me bhaktya prayacchati: "Because he is giving Me in faith and devotion, I accept it." And what is this one piece of leaf and a fruit for God? It is nothing. He is being served by many thousands of goddess of fortune. Laksmi-sahasra-sata-sambrahma-
Madhudvisa: Sometimes a question is arisen that devotees are working hard to serve Krsna, but sometimes they don't feel that they are working in love and devotion. They are doing the work, but sometimes...
Prabhupada: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. [break] Therefore it has been warned, arcye visnau sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir vaisnave jati-buddhih. The Deity of Visnu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye visnau sila-dhir gurusu nara-matih. Gurusu means the spiritual master. Nara-matih, a ordinary human being. And vaisnave jati-buddhih. And Vaisnava, a devotee -- "Oh, he is brahmana Vaisnava. He is European Vaisnava. He is this Vaisnava, that..." No. These are forbidden. Vaisnava is Vaisnava. Spiritual master... They are all transcendental. In... of course, in this country you are introducing new, but in India... Just like we had been at Tirupati, Tirumala. Many thousands of people were coming, and their daily collection is not less than 100,000 rupees. And do you think these people are coming to offer these 100,000 rupees daily to a stone? And the acaryas established this temple for bluffing these people? Does it mean, their collecting? They do not know the science, rascals. And therefore simply... Sinful life cannot help. Vina pasughnat [SB 10.1.4]. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science." Vina pasughnat [SB 10.1.4]. This is the statement. Pasughna means the animal killer. Therefore the first prohibition is stop this animal killing. Otherwise, this dull brain will not be able to understand. They are not fit for understanding. Mudha, mudha. Na mam duskrtino mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. Duskrtina means always engaged in sinful activities. They have got brain but their brain is being utilized only for sinful activities, they are called duskrtina. Krti, krti means good brain, and duskrti means brain is being utilized for sinful act. Therefore they are mudha. In spite of good brain, they are rascals, because brain is being utilized for sinful activities, how to set up up-to-date machinery for killing animals. Brain is being used for this purpose. Any animal can be killed with ordinary knife, but they're manufacturing latest machinery. Their brain, rascal brain is being used for that purpose. And what they will understand? They are preparing their road for going to hell. What they will understand about spiritual matters? Nature will not excuse. That is not possible. [break] That is sufficient for your being killed. Yes, sir. Wherefrom these laws come unless there is God's laws? Everyone will be killed. They are thinking that "We are not going to slaughterhouse to kill. They kill; we purchase." The Buddhist says like that. Everyone says like that. Therefore, according to Vedic scripture, those animal-eaters, they should kill them personally so that they can see how much suffering is there, so he will stop. But now the things are being done in the slaughterhouse. They do not see. They purchase very nicely packed. They do not know. And they are becoming implicated. Therefore, according to Vedic injunction, if you want to eat meat, you kill yourself in your front, in the front of goddess Kali. So that the animal will get next life as human being. He is promoted immediately. He hasn't got to go to the evolutionary process. He gets immediately. And it is given right that "After you get human form of (life), you can kill this person." You see? This is the process of bali-dana, mantra and everything. [Break] ...regulation that... that is not cow. An insignificant animal, goat... (end)
Prabhupada: That is dehantara-prapti, another body.
Madhudvisa: No, they say same body.
Prabhupada: Same body means same material body. The form may be different. The form is actually different, because this form is lying in your tomb. It is not going. Where that... If it has gone, then why the body is here? That is dehantara, another body. How you can say the same body? The same body is lying here. After death, if the same body is going, then why the same body is not going? Why it is lying here? They must be reasonable, not dogmatic. How it is same body?
Satsvarupa: I don't understand their philosophy.
Prabhupada: Pure nonsense. Same body, how can you? The body is here.
Madhudvisa: The body is rotting in the tomb, and then they say that the body at the end of the creation is reconstructed and reunited with the soul.
Prabhupada: That's all right, but not this body. Reconstruct.
Madhudvisa: That they say, this body.
Prabhupada: That is their foolishness. This body, you can say, this is material body; that is also material body. But not this body. Just like you change your cloth. The other cloth also made of cotton, and this is also made of cotton. In the same way, you can say, "the same body," cotton body or dress. But you cannot say that this cloth or this dhoti is going with you. How they can say? This body is lying here. This body means this material body.
Madhudvisa: They will say, "Some things you cannot understand. You must simply accept on faith."
Prabhupada: "You cannot understand" -- that is also good. Suppose a child cannot understand. But there must be some explanation. Otherwise, how in advanced stages one can accept. They will say, "dogmatic." This body means this material body, and this material body has got so many shapes, 8,400,000. So hell means... This is also hellish. A tree is standing for five thousand years or five hundred years. Is it not hellish? If I ask you, "Stand here for five days," you will die. (laughing) If there is such order from the government, "You stand here for so many days..."
Satsvarupa: Naked. Naked too.
Prabhupada: Naked. This is hellish. (dog barking) Now this, another hellish life. His only business is to bark. The master may like to keep a dog, but if he is said that "You also become a dog," he will not agree. Will he agree?
Madhudvisa: But whether he agrees or not, he will become one, if he is too much attached. [break] ...the chief engineer of building the chariots, and all of these people are his assistants.
Prabhupada: Jagannatha will be very much pleased upon you. Yes. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Little service to God is taken as great service. Krsna is so kind. So we should try always to give the best service, best energy, and you become liberated. Actually we cannot give any service to Krsna. He is unlimited. What is the value of our service? But He takes it seriously: "Oh, he is trying to give me some service." Otherwise what service He needs from us? Suppose He has created these big universes, what service we can give? By His will, He can create millions of universes. What service we can give? We... No. These are the chances of service, this Ratha-yatra. God is so great, so big, how we can pack up in the ratha. But this is a chance, that you get Him sit on the ratha and prepare it, manufacture it. Because your energy is engaged for His service, that is accepted. So this example... Just like a small child eating lozenges, and out of that, if he offers father, "Father, take it," and father takes it very serious..., "Ah, very nice." And what is that lozenges to the father? It is nothing. But because the child offers to the father in love, father takes it very seriously: "Oh, you are so nice. Yes, yes, give me." That is stated in Bhagavad-gita. Patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati: [Bg. 9.26] "A leaf, a fruit, a little water." What is the value of these? But yo me bhaktya prayacchati: "Because he is giving Me in faith and devotion, I accept it." And what is this one piece of leaf and a fruit for God? It is nothing. He is being served by many thousands of goddess of fortune. Laksmi-sahasra-sata-sambrahma-
Madhudvisa: Sometimes a question is arisen that devotees are working hard to serve Krsna, but sometimes they don't feel that they are working in love and devotion. They are doing the work, but sometimes...
Prabhupada: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. [break] Therefore it has been warned, arcye visnau sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir vaisnave jati-buddhih. The Deity of Visnu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye visnau sila-dhir gurusu nara-matih. Gurusu means the spiritual master. Nara-matih, a ordinary human being. And vaisnave jati-buddhih. And Vaisnava, a devotee -- "Oh, he is brahmana Vaisnava. He is European Vaisnava. He is this Vaisnava, that..." No. These are forbidden. Vaisnava is Vaisnava. Spiritual master... They are all transcendental. In... of course, in this country you are introducing new, but in India... Just like we had been at Tirupati, Tirumala. Many thousands of people were coming, and their daily collection is not less than 100,000 rupees. And do you think these people are coming to offer these 100,000 rupees daily to a stone? And the acaryas established this temple for bluffing these people? Does it mean, their collecting? They do not know the science, rascals. And therefore simply... Sinful life cannot help. Vina pasughnat [SB 10.1.4]. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science." Vina pasughnat [SB 10.1.4]. This is the statement. Pasughna means the animal killer. Therefore the first prohibition is stop this animal killing. Otherwise, this dull brain will not be able to understand. They are not fit for understanding. Mudha, mudha. Na mam duskrtino mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. Duskrtina means always engaged in sinful activities. They have got brain but their brain is being utilized only for sinful activities, they are called duskrtina. Krti, krti means good brain, and duskrti means brain is being utilized for sinful act. Therefore they are mudha. In spite of good brain, they are rascals, because brain is being utilized for sinful activities, how to set up up-to-date machinery for killing animals. Brain is being used for this purpose. Any animal can be killed with ordinary knife, but they're manufacturing latest machinery. Their brain, rascal brain is being used for that purpose. And what they will understand? They are preparing their road for going to hell. What they will understand about spiritual matters? Nature will not excuse. That is not possible. [break] That is sufficient for your being killed. Yes, sir. Wherefrom these laws come unless there is God's laws? Everyone will be killed. They are thinking that "We are not going to slaughterhouse to kill. They kill; we purchase." The Buddhist says like that. Everyone says like that. Therefore, according to Vedic scripture, those animal-eaters, they should kill them personally so that they can see how much suffering is there, so he will stop. But now the things are being done in the slaughterhouse. They do not see. They purchase very nicely packed. They do not know. And they are becoming implicated. Therefore, according to Vedic injunction, if you want to eat meat, you kill yourself in your front, in the front of goddess Kali. So that the animal will get next life as human being. He is promoted immediately. He hasn't got to go to the evolutionary process. He gets immediately. And it is given right that "After you get human form of (life), you can kill this person." You see? This is the process of bali-dana, mantra and everything. [Break] ...regulation that... that is not cow. An insignificant animal, goat... (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Walk -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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