Bombay, November 19, 1975
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Dr. Patel: Yes, Sunday, the sun is
the center, and I mean, that is, I recall, first sun, and then Monday is next
day, then Tuesday, which is next to the earth, and Wednesday next to the
sun.Prabhupada: Then sun is first, then moon. But they say moon is first,
then sun.
Dr. Patel: Who says?
Prabhupada: The scientists.
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupada: Yes. They say the moon is...
Dr. Patel: So far the distance is concerned, moon may be nearest.
Prabhupada: How it is, that?
Dr. Patel: It is so, sir.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Dr. Patel: Our science says so. Your science may not. And we don't want to clash the sciences here. Let us talk about philosophy.
Prabhupada: You science... (laughs) Jump over.
Dr. Patel: Chandra is the upagraha, isn't it? As guru has got many such grahas.
Prabhupada: It is one of the celestial planets. And they say there is no life.
Dr. Patel: It is not self-luminous. All grahas are not self-luminous. When we observe in the sky, those stars are bleeping like this. The grahas are straight as that, the Sukra behind us, just steady light.
Prabhupada: [break] ...philosophy is also incorrect, there is no life after death.
Dr. Patel: Who says so?
Prabhupada: Oh, so many, all Westerners.
Dr. Patel: The Easterns... That does not mean... The Eastern philosophy is only with the jagrati stage. But the jiva has got three stages, and the fourth stage, the turiya stage, is the real stage that we understand. They don't have idea of it, unfortunately. So that philosophy is not the real philosophy of life. Life as a whole should have its own philosophy. They don't understand that there is anything beyond the jagrati stage. But then there is a svapna stage, there is a sleep stage and the turiya stage. In that if I am wrong you may correct me, sir.
Prabhupada: You cannot be corrected.
Dr. Patel: I cannot be wrong, say that.
Prabhupada: No, I cannot correct you.
Dr. Patel: You? You cannot be correct...? Why I should not be corrected? Because the philosophy must encompass the whole life, not a part of it. All Western philosophers, only except Schopenhauer and Eckhart, they only thought about the waking stage. They have never thought about the dream and the deep sleep stage and the stage beyond the three. None of them, excepting Eckhart of Germany. So the Western philosophers are all wrong or partially true. [break] The Western philosophers have never thought about the three other stages, none of them.
Prabhupada: [break] ...philosophy rejects any philosophy based on thinking.
Dr. Patel: But you see thinking is an apparatus which takes you beyond thinking.
Prabhupada: That is another.
Dr. Patel: That takes you beyond thinking. You cannot go beyond thinking without thinking to be taken as a fact.
Prabhupada: But thinking must be intelligent thinking.
Dr. Patel: But thinking is always...
Prabhupada: Foolish thinking has no value. Indriyani parany ahur indriyebhya para mana manasas tu para buddhir [Bg. 3.42]. So thinking should be under the direction of intelligence.
Dr. Patel: Buddhi, buddhiman, and ahankara, all are the internal apparatus, what you call antah-karana. They work together in reason. One thing does not act separately from the other, as we know.
Prabhupada: There are separate arrangement, although they are one.
Dr. Patel: They are the different facets of the same internal organ as a whole.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. [break] ...set is there, but beyond that mental stage there is intellect. Beyond intellect there is soul.
Dr. Patel: To go beyond intellect for a body conscious ego, the ego must dissolve and find itself to be a jiva, and then he travels further up to find his own identity and his own relation with God. Before, I mean, mind is one, you cannot go beyond it. That is what my conjecture. I may be wrong for all that.
Prabhupada: No, no. One has to go beyond the mind, but one, those who are stuck up with the mind, they are useless. So the Western philosophers, they are stuck up with the mind. That is the defect. [break] ...bhaktasya kuto mahad-guna mano-rathenasati dhavato bahih. Manorathena, mental concoction, asatah. Western philosophers, they take the mind as the soul. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. Hm?
Dr. Patel: Yes. And the Communists think even the matter is more important than the mind. What do you call? Dialectical materialism, that the matter produces consciousness. It is not the consciousness which, I mean, collects matter around it. That is their philosophy. That is this dialectical materialism. They are absolutely wrong. They are even further down than the Western philosophers, mental philosophers.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. [break] ...is already mentioned in Bhagavad-gita.
indriyani parany ahur
indriyebhyah param manah
manasas tu para buddhir...
[Bg. 3.42]
Dr. Patel: Buddhi tu... Param buddhva? What is called, that...? Samsthabhyam atmana? That mind has to... I mean, isn't it out for itself that it is false? That comes to that.
Prabhupada: Not false.
Dr. Patel: I mean false so far as higher category is concerned, the jiva.
Prabhupada: Nothing is false, but there are different steps. One step is important than the other, but they are not false. Just like the water, the sand, then earth, then the building. You cannot construct a building here. So these are different stages of reality. Jaya. So how many places you have arranged?
Devotee (2): Program? Well, I have arranged two so far. At least, tentatively, Mr. Patel and Mr. Tarachand Gupta.
Prabhupada: Tarachand Gupta is also member?
Devotee (2): Yes, he has taken a room.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Devotee (2): He has a big, a giant bungalow on Altamount Road on Malabar Hill.
Prabhupada: He knows me.
Devotee (2): I think so. [break]
Prabhupada: ...going to the West, and I was collecting some money, this gentleman gave me five hundred rupees.
Devotee (2): Tarachand Gupta. Really? He makes trains, train cars.
Prabhupada: Accha? He has got factory?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupada: A good business.
Devotee (2): Yes.
Brahmananda: Where is the factory?
Devotee (2): It's outside of Bombay.
Prabhupada: [break] ...at his home, Deity.
Devotee (2): I don't think so. I haven't seen it, anyway.
Prabhupada: No, I went to his house. He worships Radha-Krsna Deity.
Harikesa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Huh? You know it?
Harikesa: Yes, very well. The grandfather there does the worship, the old man.
Prabhupada: Oh. He is Tarachand Gupta, the old man.
Harikesa: No. There is one older man, or there was.
Prabhupada: So what is the old man's name?
Devotee (2): I don't know. I haven't seen either the old man or the Deity.
Prabhupada: Who is Tarachand Gupta? He is young man?
Devotee (2): A middle-aged man, about fifty-five, sixty.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Sridhara is the only one who's ever gotten money out of Tarachand Gupta.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: No one else has ever been able to get money out of Tarachand Gupta but Sridhara.
Prabhupada: Accha? And before him, I got some money. He gave me five hundred rupees long ago, means before going to United States.
Devotee (2): Giriraja made him a life member.
Prabhupada: No, he appears to be good man. Yes. One day he met me at Hanging Garden, and he requested me that "One day you have to come to my house."
Giriraja: I remember. When we were at Akash Ganga, it was almost fixed up with Madhudvisa Swami, but something...
Prabhupada: So when you go to the bank, I have got some money you can take. [break] What is called?
Gopala Krsna: Wagons.
Prabhupada: Wagons he makes?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupada: Wagons or bogies?
Harikesa: Freight cars.
Devotee (2): He makes the freight cars.
Prabhupada: Freight cars. That means wagon. [break] The bogies are made by railway company by themselves. It is called bogies?
Giriraja: Yes, passenger car.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Man: Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: Jaya.
Brahmananda: [break] He makes railway cars in Bharatpur.
Prabhupada: Huh? Where? Bharatpur?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is in Calcutta.
Brahmananda: Isn't there a Bharatpur near Agra?
Giriraja: Bharatpur.
Prabhupada: Bharatpur. Oh, yes. [break]
Gopala Krsna: India exports to Africa and Middle East countries.
Brahmananda: The bogies.
Prabhupada: How they dispatch? By ship?
Brahmananda: Yes, I think so. I remember reading once, in Tanzania they received twelve bogies.
Prabhupada: Twelve bogies at a time?
Brahmananda: This one shipment.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Jaya. [break] ...has good trade with Africa in so many things.
Brahmananda: Telephones are also made in India. [break]
Prabhupada: ...is taken from the earth. There is no doubt about it. Why the scientists cannot take? This is a fact, that there is aroma, and the flower has taken the aroma from the earth. But why the scientists cannot take?
Brahmananda: They can make chemicals, the flavors. They can make flavors, aromas, from chemicals.
Prabhupada: As good?
Brahmananda: No. (laughter)
Yasomati-nandana: They make a flavor and then say it's a rose flavor.
Prabhupada: That is also not all kinds of flavors.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Yasomati-nandana: I think if they want to produce rose flavor they must use the roses somehow or other. I don't think they can just produce.
Gopala Krsna: They use a little bit.
Yasomati-nandana: Yes. They must use.
Prabhupada: They are taking chemicals, making flavor, and the flower is coming out without any chemical. So who is more artist, better artist?
Brahmananda: [break] ...because they will wilt and die.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Brahmananda: These flowers, they will wilt and die, but they can make flowers that will not die, will not wilt. (laughter) Of course, they have no smell.
Prabhupada: Therefore they make without smell. [break] ...earth is this side and moon is this side, then which is first? Both of them are both sides.
Brahmananda: Yes. The sun is larger in the sky, so that means it is nearer to the earth?
Prabhupada: Yes. Should be. Because you calculate about the stars, very, very far away. Is it not?
Brahmananda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: Then which is smaller is far away. [break]
Yasomat-nandana: ...systems are bigger than the smaller ones?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Yasomati-nandana: The upper planetary systems, are they bigger than the lower ones? In other words, sun is bigger than the earth, the moon is bigger...
Prabhupada: Yes, there is measurement. [break]
Jayapataka: Some people say that "You are coming to India for preaching, but we Indians, we already know all the, about Krsna and Rama. Why don't... You should be preaching in the West, where the people don't know."
Prabhupada: But you know from the Western people. They are not... They are imitating Western people. You know from the Western people; therefore you have to learn from this Western people this also.
Brahmananda: They are learning everything else from the Western people, so why not...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Sridhara: Everyone in India knows the lila of Krsna, but the science of Krsna, that they have forgotten.
Prabhupada: They know lila of Krsna but they do not know Krsna. Huh? Who was...? You were telling that Mr. Bajaj, he wants to take the instruction of Krsna without Krsna.
Giriraja: Yes.
Prabhupada: Then how you will take this instruction when Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]? If they do not take Krsna, then how this instruction will be taken?
Giriraja: It can't be.
Brahmananda: Well, rasa-lila is more important than those instructions. (Prabhupada laughs)
Yasomati-nandana: Actually, the real scholars of Bhagavad-gita, they admit that later on this Bhagavad-gita came out, which was stressing more on bhakti.
Prabhupada: Later on.
Yasomati-nandana: Later on. These scholars, these mundane scholars, those who have studied Bhagavad-gita, they accept that Bhagavad-gita is based around bhakti principle.
Prabhupada: So how it came later on?
Yasomati-nandana: That they are rascal. That they don't.
Prabhupada: And what was the beginning?
Yasomati-nandana: All these Vedas and everything.
Prabhupada: No, Bhagavad-gita? They say, "later on."
Brahmananda: Who was the first...
Yasomati-nandana: He says that it was the Vaisnavites who introduced Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Then why Sankaracarya has accepted Bhagavad-gita? He is not a Vaisnava.
Yasomati-nandana: That they cannot answer.
Prabhupada: Then they're foolish.
Yasomati-nandana: That they cannot answer.
Prabhupada: Sankaracarya has accepted Bhagavad-gita. Sankaracarya accepted Krsna the Supreme Lord. Sa bhagavan svaya krsnah. He has written...
Yasomati-nandana: It is like that. They think that Sankaracarya also liked Bhagavad-gita, but the personal Krsna was not very important.
Prabhupada: No.
Yasomati-nandana: According to his bhasya, they think like that.
Prabhupada: No, he has written many prayers on Krsna. Bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam mudha-mate. That means those who are not worshiping Govinda, they are mudha-mati. He is addressing mudha-mati: "You rascal..."
Yasomati-nandana: This verse, Srila Prabhupada, vasudeva sata devam, is also written by him?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Yasomati-nandana:
vasudevam-sutam devam
kamsa-canura-mardanam
devaki paramanandam
krsnam vande jagat-gurum
Prabhupada: Maybe, but I do not know.
Yasomati-nandana: Because they say, these mundane scholars, that Bhagavata was after Sankaracarya because he did not write a commentary on Bhagavata. Because there's a mention of Kamsa and Canura and Vasudeva and Devaki, that means that Sankaracarya did believe in the personal of Krsna.
Prabhupada: But Vedavyasa is after Sankaracarya?
Yasomati-nandana: They don't accept it is written by Vedavyasa.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Yasomati-nandana: They don't... They are such atheistic people, they do not accept that it is written by Vedavyasa.
Prabhupada: That's all right, but others accept it.
Yasomati-nandana: Yes, the vast people do accept.
Prabhupada: Vedavyasa is accepted by Sankaracarya. Vyasadeva. Vyasa-guru.
Yasomati-nandana: They think that some Vaisnava wrote it and put the name of Vedavyasa. They are so demoniac.
Prabhupada: Yes, they say like that. Then other acaryas, they are also fools?
Yasomati-nandana: I think they place all the other acaryas after Sankaracarya.
Prabhupada: Acaryas... But their parampara system is very old. (aside:) Hare Krsna. [break] ...Bhagavad-gita? No.
Yasomati-nandana: They don't accept it as... They do not accept Gita as spoken by some person Krsna five thousand years ago.
Prabhupada: Anyway, do they accept the authority of Bhagavad-gita or not?
Yasomati-nandana: They say it's a very nice book of knowledge. They don't want to pursue spiritual life.
Prabhupada: Then why they become authority?
Yasomati-nandana: Yes, that is their rascaldom.
Prabhupada: If they do not accept authority, why they become authority? Who will accept them? If everything is depending on mental speculation, then why they should be accepted as authority?
Yasomati-nandana: That they cannot answer. Only insincere people, foolish people, they are misled by them. Otherwise I don't think anybody even knows their philosophy. Everyone knows your philosophy because they see your disciples, and no one goes to read their books. Mostly I see in their books, "First edition, copies, two thousand," "three thousand," something like that. And you never see a second edition.
Prabhupada: [ Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu for the last twelve years he was lying idle, and this time he went, and people appreciated so much he was giving delete.(?) He is advertising like that. (end)
Dr. Patel: Who says?
Prabhupada: The scientists.
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupada: Yes. They say the moon is...
Dr. Patel: So far the distance is concerned, moon may be nearest.
Prabhupada: How it is, that?
Dr. Patel: It is so, sir.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Dr. Patel: Our science says so. Your science may not. And we don't want to clash the sciences here. Let us talk about philosophy.
Prabhupada: You science... (laughs) Jump over.
Dr. Patel: Chandra is the upagraha, isn't it? As guru has got many such grahas.
Prabhupada: It is one of the celestial planets. And they say there is no life.
Dr. Patel: It is not self-luminous. All grahas are not self-luminous. When we observe in the sky, those stars are bleeping like this. The grahas are straight as that, the Sukra behind us, just steady light.
Prabhupada: [break] ...philosophy is also incorrect, there is no life after death.
Dr. Patel: Who says so?
Prabhupada: Oh, so many, all Westerners.
Dr. Patel: The Easterns... That does not mean... The Eastern philosophy is only with the jagrati stage. But the jiva has got three stages, and the fourth stage, the turiya stage, is the real stage that we understand. They don't have idea of it, unfortunately. So that philosophy is not the real philosophy of life. Life as a whole should have its own philosophy. They don't understand that there is anything beyond the jagrati stage. But then there is a svapna stage, there is a sleep stage and the turiya stage. In that if I am wrong you may correct me, sir.
Prabhupada: You cannot be corrected.
Dr. Patel: I cannot be wrong, say that.
Prabhupada: No, I cannot correct you.
Dr. Patel: You? You cannot be correct...? Why I should not be corrected? Because the philosophy must encompass the whole life, not a part of it. All Western philosophers, only except Schopenhauer and Eckhart, they only thought about the waking stage. They have never thought about the dream and the deep sleep stage and the stage beyond the three. None of them, excepting Eckhart of Germany. So the Western philosophers are all wrong or partially true. [break] The Western philosophers have never thought about the three other stages, none of them.
Prabhupada: [break] ...philosophy rejects any philosophy based on thinking.
Dr. Patel: But you see thinking is an apparatus which takes you beyond thinking.
Prabhupada: That is another.
Dr. Patel: That takes you beyond thinking. You cannot go beyond thinking without thinking to be taken as a fact.
Prabhupada: But thinking must be intelligent thinking.
Dr. Patel: But thinking is always...
Prabhupada: Foolish thinking has no value. Indriyani parany ahur indriyebhya para mana manasas tu para buddhir [Bg. 3.42]. So thinking should be under the direction of intelligence.
Dr. Patel: Buddhi, buddhiman, and ahankara, all are the internal apparatus, what you call antah-karana. They work together in reason. One thing does not act separately from the other, as we know.
Prabhupada: There are separate arrangement, although they are one.
Dr. Patel: They are the different facets of the same internal organ as a whole.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. [break] ...set is there, but beyond that mental stage there is intellect. Beyond intellect there is soul.
Dr. Patel: To go beyond intellect for a body conscious ego, the ego must dissolve and find itself to be a jiva, and then he travels further up to find his own identity and his own relation with God. Before, I mean, mind is one, you cannot go beyond it. That is what my conjecture. I may be wrong for all that.
Prabhupada: No, no. One has to go beyond the mind, but one, those who are stuck up with the mind, they are useless. So the Western philosophers, they are stuck up with the mind. That is the defect. [break] ...bhaktasya kuto mahad-guna mano-rathenasati dhavato bahih. Manorathena, mental concoction, asatah. Western philosophers, they take the mind as the soul. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. Hm?
Dr. Patel: Yes. And the Communists think even the matter is more important than the mind. What do you call? Dialectical materialism, that the matter produces consciousness. It is not the consciousness which, I mean, collects matter around it. That is their philosophy. That is this dialectical materialism. They are absolutely wrong. They are even further down than the Western philosophers, mental philosophers.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. [break] ...is already mentioned in Bhagavad-gita.
indriyani parany ahur
indriyebhyah param manah
manasas tu para buddhir...
[Bg. 3.42]
Dr. Patel: Buddhi tu... Param buddhva? What is called, that...? Samsthabhyam atmana? That mind has to... I mean, isn't it out for itself that it is false? That comes to that.
Prabhupada: Not false.
Dr. Patel: I mean false so far as higher category is concerned, the jiva.
Prabhupada: Nothing is false, but there are different steps. One step is important than the other, but they are not false. Just like the water, the sand, then earth, then the building. You cannot construct a building here. So these are different stages of reality. Jaya. So how many places you have arranged?
Devotee (2): Program? Well, I have arranged two so far. At least, tentatively, Mr. Patel and Mr. Tarachand Gupta.
Prabhupada: Tarachand Gupta is also member?
Devotee (2): Yes, he has taken a room.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Devotee (2): He has a big, a giant bungalow on Altamount Road on Malabar Hill.
Prabhupada: He knows me.
Devotee (2): I think so. [break]
Prabhupada: ...going to the West, and I was collecting some money, this gentleman gave me five hundred rupees.
Devotee (2): Tarachand Gupta. Really? He makes trains, train cars.
Prabhupada: Accha? He has got factory?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupada: A good business.
Devotee (2): Yes.
Brahmananda: Where is the factory?
Devotee (2): It's outside of Bombay.
Prabhupada: [break] ...at his home, Deity.
Devotee (2): I don't think so. I haven't seen it, anyway.
Prabhupada: No, I went to his house. He worships Radha-Krsna Deity.
Harikesa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Huh? You know it?
Harikesa: Yes, very well. The grandfather there does the worship, the old man.
Prabhupada: Oh. He is Tarachand Gupta, the old man.
Harikesa: No. There is one older man, or there was.
Prabhupada: So what is the old man's name?
Devotee (2): I don't know. I haven't seen either the old man or the Deity.
Prabhupada: Who is Tarachand Gupta? He is young man?
Devotee (2): A middle-aged man, about fifty-five, sixty.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Sridhara is the only one who's ever gotten money out of Tarachand Gupta.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: No one else has ever been able to get money out of Tarachand Gupta but Sridhara.
Prabhupada: Accha? And before him, I got some money. He gave me five hundred rupees long ago, means before going to United States.
Devotee (2): Giriraja made him a life member.
Prabhupada: No, he appears to be good man. Yes. One day he met me at Hanging Garden, and he requested me that "One day you have to come to my house."
Giriraja: I remember. When we were at Akash Ganga, it was almost fixed up with Madhudvisa Swami, but something...
Prabhupada: So when you go to the bank, I have got some money you can take. [break] What is called?
Gopala Krsna: Wagons.
Prabhupada: Wagons he makes?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupada: Wagons or bogies?
Harikesa: Freight cars.
Devotee (2): He makes the freight cars.
Prabhupada: Freight cars. That means wagon. [break] The bogies are made by railway company by themselves. It is called bogies?
Giriraja: Yes, passenger car.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Man: Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: Jaya.
Brahmananda: [break] He makes railway cars in Bharatpur.
Prabhupada: Huh? Where? Bharatpur?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is in Calcutta.
Brahmananda: Isn't there a Bharatpur near Agra?
Giriraja: Bharatpur.
Prabhupada: Bharatpur. Oh, yes. [break]
Gopala Krsna: India exports to Africa and Middle East countries.
Brahmananda: The bogies.
Prabhupada: How they dispatch? By ship?
Brahmananda: Yes, I think so. I remember reading once, in Tanzania they received twelve bogies.
Prabhupada: Twelve bogies at a time?
Brahmananda: This one shipment.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Jaya. [break] ...has good trade with Africa in so many things.
Brahmananda: Telephones are also made in India. [break]
Prabhupada: ...is taken from the earth. There is no doubt about it. Why the scientists cannot take? This is a fact, that there is aroma, and the flower has taken the aroma from the earth. But why the scientists cannot take?
Brahmananda: They can make chemicals, the flavors. They can make flavors, aromas, from chemicals.
Prabhupada: As good?
Brahmananda: No. (laughter)
Yasomati-nandana: They make a flavor and then say it's a rose flavor.
Prabhupada: That is also not all kinds of flavors.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Yasomati-nandana: I think if they want to produce rose flavor they must use the roses somehow or other. I don't think they can just produce.
Gopala Krsna: They use a little bit.
Yasomati-nandana: Yes. They must use.
Prabhupada: They are taking chemicals, making flavor, and the flower is coming out without any chemical. So who is more artist, better artist?
Brahmananda: [break] ...because they will wilt and die.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Brahmananda: These flowers, they will wilt and die, but they can make flowers that will not die, will not wilt. (laughter) Of course, they have no smell.
Prabhupada: Therefore they make without smell. [break] ...earth is this side and moon is this side, then which is first? Both of them are both sides.
Brahmananda: Yes. The sun is larger in the sky, so that means it is nearer to the earth?
Prabhupada: Yes. Should be. Because you calculate about the stars, very, very far away. Is it not?
Brahmananda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: Then which is smaller is far away. [break]
Yasomat-nandana: ...systems are bigger than the smaller ones?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Yasomati-nandana: The upper planetary systems, are they bigger than the lower ones? In other words, sun is bigger than the earth, the moon is bigger...
Prabhupada: Yes, there is measurement. [break]
Jayapataka: Some people say that "You are coming to India for preaching, but we Indians, we already know all the, about Krsna and Rama. Why don't... You should be preaching in the West, where the people don't know."
Prabhupada: But you know from the Western people. They are not... They are imitating Western people. You know from the Western people; therefore you have to learn from this Western people this also.
Brahmananda: They are learning everything else from the Western people, so why not...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Sridhara: Everyone in India knows the lila of Krsna, but the science of Krsna, that they have forgotten.
Prabhupada: They know lila of Krsna but they do not know Krsna. Huh? Who was...? You were telling that Mr. Bajaj, he wants to take the instruction of Krsna without Krsna.
Giriraja: Yes.
Prabhupada: Then how you will take this instruction when Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]? If they do not take Krsna, then how this instruction will be taken?
Giriraja: It can't be.
Brahmananda: Well, rasa-lila is more important than those instructions. (Prabhupada laughs)
Yasomati-nandana: Actually, the real scholars of Bhagavad-gita, they admit that later on this Bhagavad-gita came out, which was stressing more on bhakti.
Prabhupada: Later on.
Yasomati-nandana: Later on. These scholars, these mundane scholars, those who have studied Bhagavad-gita, they accept that Bhagavad-gita is based around bhakti principle.
Prabhupada: So how it came later on?
Yasomati-nandana: That they are rascal. That they don't.
Prabhupada: And what was the beginning?
Yasomati-nandana: All these Vedas and everything.
Prabhupada: No, Bhagavad-gita? They say, "later on."
Brahmananda: Who was the first...
Yasomati-nandana: He says that it was the Vaisnavites who introduced Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Then why Sankaracarya has accepted Bhagavad-gita? He is not a Vaisnava.
Yasomati-nandana: That they cannot answer.
Prabhupada: Then they're foolish.
Yasomati-nandana: That they cannot answer.
Prabhupada: Sankaracarya has accepted Bhagavad-gita. Sankaracarya accepted Krsna the Supreme Lord. Sa bhagavan svaya krsnah. He has written...
Yasomati-nandana: It is like that. They think that Sankaracarya also liked Bhagavad-gita, but the personal Krsna was not very important.
Prabhupada: No.
Yasomati-nandana: According to his bhasya, they think like that.
Prabhupada: No, he has written many prayers on Krsna. Bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam mudha-mate. That means those who are not worshiping Govinda, they are mudha-mati. He is addressing mudha-mati: "You rascal..."
Yasomati-nandana: This verse, Srila Prabhupada, vasudeva sata devam, is also written by him?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Yasomati-nandana:
vasudevam-sutam devam
kamsa-canura-mardanam
devaki paramanandam
krsnam vande jagat-gurum
Prabhupada: Maybe, but I do not know.
Yasomati-nandana: Because they say, these mundane scholars, that Bhagavata was after Sankaracarya because he did not write a commentary on Bhagavata. Because there's a mention of Kamsa and Canura and Vasudeva and Devaki, that means that Sankaracarya did believe in the personal of Krsna.
Prabhupada: But Vedavyasa is after Sankaracarya?
Yasomati-nandana: They don't accept it is written by Vedavyasa.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Yasomati-nandana: They don't... They are such atheistic people, they do not accept that it is written by Vedavyasa.
Prabhupada: That's all right, but others accept it.
Yasomati-nandana: Yes, the vast people do accept.
Prabhupada: Vedavyasa is accepted by Sankaracarya. Vyasadeva. Vyasa-guru.
Yasomati-nandana: They think that some Vaisnava wrote it and put the name of Vedavyasa. They are so demoniac.
Prabhupada: Yes, they say like that. Then other acaryas, they are also fools?
Yasomati-nandana: I think they place all the other acaryas after Sankaracarya.
Prabhupada: Acaryas... But their parampara system is very old. (aside:) Hare Krsna. [break] ...Bhagavad-gita? No.
Yasomati-nandana: They don't accept it as... They do not accept Gita as spoken by some person Krsna five thousand years ago.
Prabhupada: Anyway, do they accept the authority of Bhagavad-gita or not?
Yasomati-nandana: They say it's a very nice book of knowledge. They don't want to pursue spiritual life.
Prabhupada: Then why they become authority?
Yasomati-nandana: Yes, that is their rascaldom.
Prabhupada: If they do not accept authority, why they become authority? Who will accept them? If everything is depending on mental speculation, then why they should be accepted as authority?
Yasomati-nandana: That they cannot answer. Only insincere people, foolish people, they are misled by them. Otherwise I don't think anybody even knows their philosophy. Everyone knows your philosophy because they see your disciples, and no one goes to read their books. Mostly I see in their books, "First edition, copies, two thousand," "three thousand," something like that. And you never see a second edition.
Prabhupada: [ Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu for the last twelve years he was lying idle, and this time he went, and people appreciated so much he was giving delete.(?) He is advertising like that. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Walk -- November 19, 1975, Bombay
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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