Geneva, June 7, 1974
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Pusta-krsna: In the Bhagavatam, you
said that by the age of sixteen, a girl should be married, or twenty-four for a
man. We were just reading that...Prabhupada: That is the
maximum.
Pusta-krsna: We were just reading that.
Prabhupada: The point is that supposing this twenty to thirty-six years is nice age... For women. But before twenty years, she is sacked, and her health is broken. What she'll produce, children? Because this is... The girls, from twelve years, thirteen years, nowadays, they begin sex.
Pusta-krsna: That's true.
Prabhupada: Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: That's true.
Prabhupada: So before she reaches twenty years, twenty times she must have taken contraceptive method. And that means her health is ruined. What she'll produce? They are given in the schools, colleges, contraceptive tablets. And they are prohibiting, "Don't get child before twenty years." What is this nonsense? This is the difficulty. All rascals, they have taken leadership. Women should, should be allowed to beget children as soon as they're able. But as soon as the pregnancy is there, there should not be any sex life. They have got sex life in pregnancy also. So many things, we have... We can guide them all, all these rascals. From sastra, we can guide them. Therefore immediately human society, a class of men who are fully conversant with the Vedic conclusion required to guide these rascals, socially, politically, in every respect.
Guru-gauranga: They say that they have made studies, Srila Prabhupada...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guru-gauranga: They have made studies and that if a woman gives birth at the age less than twenty there are more chances that she die according to their statistics.
Prabhupada: Their statistics in the western world... Inductive knowledge is always imperfect. They have not seen in India. My wife gave birth at the age of fourteen years. She is still living. She is ten years younger than me. So sixty-eight, sixty-nine, she is. She gave birth child at the age of fourteen. In 1918 I was married, and 1921 she gave birth the child, my first son. And she was never unhealthy; neither she had to go to the hospital for maternity hell. Natural delivery of child. Hare Krsna. This illicit sex, even with wife... If sex life is indulged after the period of menstruation, that is also illicit sex. There are so many rules and regulations about sex life in Vedic culture. That is real use of sex life. In the Bhagavad-gita, sex life, He says that dharmaviruddhah kamo 'smi. "Sex life which is under regulative principle of the Vedic knowledge," Krsna says, "I am that sex life. I am that sex life." And beyond that, that is illicit sex life. And yesterday I was reading that dharma... When there is irreligious sex, then it increases varna-sankara, unwanted population. So the modern civilization, they're letting loose the women for prostitution, and they want nice children. That is not possible. Why this park is kept like this?
Guru-gauranga: It's more of a forest, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guru-gauranga: But this is surprising. Generally, they cut.
Nitai: In Los Angeles, you were saying about the system of monogamy, how in this way most of the women are left unmarried.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is prostitution. If a man... First of all, the problem is... That they do not know, that they should produce sufficient food grains. These, all these contraceptive methods, this and that, monogamy, they are trying for checking population. Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: The basic principle is to check population. Now, if they follow the Vedic principles, automatically the population is checked. Just like brahmacari. So if the, both the boys and girls remain brahmacari, then where is the unwanted population? Where is the question of this contraceptive method?
Nitai: No need.
Prabhupada: No need. Then when the brahmacari is allowed to become grhastha, he can keep more than one wife if he's able to provide them nicely. Here they marry today and tomorrow divorce. The... No meaning of marriage. Simply prostitution. Because he does not need a wife. His sex life is satisfied in so many ways. So why he should be affected, attached to wife? And why the wife should be attached to the husband? Therefore divorce. It is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Dam-patye ratim eva hi. In the Kali-yuga, married life means sex life. For sex satisfaction, they'll marry. Otherwise, there is no need of marrying. That is... Svikara eva codvahe. Marriage means that they, both of them agree that "We shall live together for some time." These things are happening, already foretold. By agreement, "Yes, we shall live together." That is marriage. "And then I may divorce." Actually, they do not know what is the meaning of marriage. All dependent on sex. Rati. Rati means... Dam-patye ratim eva hi. Vipratve sutram eva hi: "To become brahmana means just have a thread only."
Pusta-krsna: Even big scientists and politicians, same thing.
Prabhupada: Everywhere. It is a civilization of rascals. That's all. That duskrtina. Duskrtina means they have got merit. As human being, everyone has got merit. That is used for sinful activities. That's all. Duskrtina. Therefore they are godless. Na mam duskrtino mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. All these sinful men, rascals, they don't care for God. They don't care for next life. This is the position. They don't believe in these things. If they believe in these things, they'll have to be systematized. They don't want that. The life is, what is called, extravagancy? No? Now it is a... Systematically they are following. The karmis, they work hard, whole week, and the end of the weekend, they call any beautiful woman, pay her something, don't take responsibility of family life. This has become a system. Is it not?
Guru-gauranga: This is why the women wish to have the same rights as the men because they're not being taken care of at home.
Prabhupada: Animal life. (pause) What are these trees? Oak tree? No.
Nitai: Yeah, oaks.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Nitai: Some of them are oaks. (pause)
Prabhupada: We can get out from this?
Guru-gauranga: Yes. [break]
Pusta-krsna: ...Vedic culture, Srila Prabhupada, if there was illicit sex going on?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta-krsna: In Vedic culture, what would King Pariksit do?
Prabhupada: We don't find any illicit sex. They were having more than one wife. So there was no question of illicit sex. If one wife is pregnant, then the man, he goes to another wife. Man has got that tendency. So as soon as she is pregnant, she is kept separate. Even we have seen. When the girl is pregnant, she goes to her mother's care, does not live with the husband. What is that?
Pusta-krsna: Off in the distance.
Prabhupada: A girl is pregnant, suppose, then, during her pregnancy period, ten months, there is no sex, and unless the child becomes six months old, there is no sex. The thing is that in the modern world, sex life has become the only pleasure. They do not know anything else. Therefore everything is discredited. And another thing is they are afraid of keeping more than one wife for population. But if they produce sufficient food, where is the question of overpopulation? Another thing they have made, especially in the western world, they don't want to produce food because they know, "We shall kill one animal and eat. Why take so much trouble? Let me increase industry, and I shall push my button. Money will come. And the slaughterhouse there. We shall eat." So they are getting money. By money, they are getting women to the choice. They are getting food, meat, and they're enjoying drinking. So money has become the whole thing. "Bring money some way or other and enjoy." This is the purport of civilization. They do not care what is God, that human body is meant for God realization. They have no such ideas. "There is nothing after death. So so long I am living, let me enjoy by the tongue, by the genital and by the belly. Use the tongue for eating anything which is palatable, which I like. Never mind what it is. And then genital also. Bring as many women..." This is civilization, modern. There is no question of sinful life or pious life, next life. (laughs) Another, their theory is that only on this planet there is living entities... [break] If there is sufficient rain in the desert, it will be also hot. [break] ...tells us in the sastras how to live comfortably and advance in spiritual life. And they should give advice to others. That is the business of the Krsna consciousness. Lokanam hita-karinau. Nana-sastra-vicaranaika-
Pusta-krsna: Prabhupada, their philosophy is that this is all there is, this life. After death, it's finished. And so they're trying to enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta-krsna: So if they have information that this is not the only life, then won't they automatically become more austere?
Prabhupada: Yes. (indistinct) consider what kind of life I'm going to get. (indistinct) They have made their own rascal philosophy that there is no life after death. Although they're experiencing that I am changing my body in this duration of life. I know that I have a child's body, child's body. That body's finished. Still I'm existing. So why I shall not exist after this body's finished? Where is the logic? Where is the... The simple logic they cannot understand. So dull brain. And they're advanced in civilization, big, big professor, big, big Indologist, this logic. The simple reason they cannot understand. What did they say? You have talked to many men about this logic?
Guru-gauranga: About life after death?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: They say it doesn't go beyond... They have to agree that the baby's body is gone and the young man's body is gone. They have to agree. But they say that that doesn't mean logically that I have to take another body.
Prabhupada: What is the other logic? If you have changed your body so many times, why not change this body? What is your reason? Natural course it should be that I have changed so many bodies so this body I shall change. This is natural logic. And what is his logic?
Satsvarupa: So he said... They say it may be or it may not be.
Prabhupada: But that is your rascaldom. But this is the real logic.
Guru-gauranga: They also say that it is not... It is the same body, more or less...
Prabhupada: Same body...
Guru-gauranga: But it is just developed, but it is not a different body.
Prabhupada: No. Developed means different body. Development means different body. They cannot say it is not different body. Then if it is not different, then go to childhood again. That means they're not human being. Human being means with logic. According to their definition, man is rational animal. They're not even rational. Like cats and dogs. There is no rationality. Cats and dogs also they have got rationality. Logic plus authority, Krsna says. How you can deny? That means they don't agree with Krsna's instruction. You see? This logic, I am not giving this logic. This logic is given by Krsna. So unless... The difficulty is that unless they accept the authority, it is very difficult. Logic is there. The authority is there.
Pusta-krsna: They feel, Prabhupada, that they've been cheated so much by so many philosophies that when we say that the Vedas are written by a person who's not contaminated by the modes of nature, they say, "Well, how is this possible? My experience is that everyone who's written books, they're all materialistic and therefore the philosophy must be like that."
Prabhupada: But you must be following some philosophy. You're not without philosophy. Even the hippies they're also follow... They've got their own philosophy.
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: So you cannot give up philosophy. Now it is misfortune that you met with the cheaters. So make your fortune now. Believe in Krsna's philosophy. Then you'll be happy.
Pusta-krsna: Jaya.
Prabhupada: That argument that we don't believe... But you're believing in Lenin's philosophy, the communist. And what is this hippies, their philosophy, Allen Ginsberg's philosophy? Ha? Debauch number one. (laughter)
Satsvarupa: Ultimately, they don't follow anyone, although they may like people, they...
Prabhupada: No, they follow.
Devotee: They say our only...
Prabhupada: But they are manufacture their own philosophy. Philosophy there must be. They've become their own authority. That is a chaotic condition. Authority he has made himself. Yes. I am my authority. Authority has to accept. But he does not know that I am fool No. 1, what is the value of my authority? Authority he must accept. But he makes himself his authority. That is the tendency now. "In my opinion." All rascals say like that. "In my opinion." He does not... He's rascal No. 1, what is the value of his opinion? But he'll say, "In my opinion." That is the difficulty. And this is called creative philosophy. Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is going on. All rascals have creative philosophy.
Pusta-krsna: When I hear in the United States there's a saying, a slogan, amongst the young people: "Do your own thing." And also in India now when I go there they say, "So many men, so many minds."
Prabhupada: Yes, that is Vivekananda. Yata mata tata patha. That means everyone can become authority. This is their philosophy.
Satsvarupa: And this they praised as good.
Prabhupada: Ha?
Satsvarupa: And others praise this as...
Pusta-krsna: Very tolerant, liberal.
Prabhupada: :Yes, but our philosophy, Krsna says, "You rascal, give up everything. Just surrender unto Me." This is our philosophy. "You rascal, you give up everything and surrender unto Me." This is our philosophy.
Devotee: Haribol.
Prabhupada: Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. He's decrying this Vivekananda philosophy. Rascal philosophy. There was a suggestion when I (indistinct) international, I was going to register, they suggested, "Why don't you make God conscious? Why you make Krsna conscious?" And if I had made God conscious so many rascals will bring so many Gods. Therefore specifically only Krsna God. That's all. That is authorized. If you like, you take other's God. But this is our philosophy, mam ekam saranam vraja. Was it not wise conclusion?
Guru-gauranga: Yes.
Prabhupada: If I have made a little liberal, God conscious, all rascals would have brought... "Here is my God." To stop this nonsense I made it Krsna conscious. Krsna is God only. Nobody is God. If you like this philosophy, come others' God. I don't want your cooperation. What is the use of cooperation of some rascaldom?
Guru-gauranga: That man yesterday wanted to know if we collaborated with other groups.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is collaboration. We are proposing this collaboration. All religion, they're after... Religion means to accept God. So if you accept God, we accept God. Then where is no cooperation? This is cooperation. But if you don't know what is God, we know. That is the difference. Ask this Christians, Mohammedans, and any other religious group, they have got a conception of God, ask them what is the form of God, what does He do, what is His..., so many things. They do not know. But we know.
Pusta-krsna: They simply say He is spirit.
Prabhupada: Yes. That's all, vague idea. We say, "Here is God." So if you actually believe in God, why don't you take this God and the whole, all different types of religions become one? If you accept God, then we say, "Here is God." So where is the point of difference? How do you differ? Why do you say that you are different religion, my religion? Why do you say, "My religion"? Everyone... This is the only religion: to know God and love Him. What is their objection? To accept God, Krsna? What is their object? What is their reason?
Pusta-krsna: They want to gratify their senses.
Prabhupada: Why do you make a different God? If you actually believe in God, I say, "Here is God." Why don't you accept? Eh?
Satsvarupa: Impersonalism. They don't want...
Prabhupada: That is not God. God is person. That means you do not know God.
Devotee: They say Jesus Christ is God too.
Prabhupada: Yes. Jesus Christ is God. That's right. But Jesus Christ said, "I'm son of God."
Pusta-krsna: Yes. He said, "I'm at the right hand of the Father."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta-krsna: So he's different from the Father.
Prabhupada: Even not different. But he says that he's son of God. We accept it. Why there are so many religions? If religion means acceptance of God, then here is God. Then make one religion. Why so many different religions?
Guru-gauranga: In America there are two new sects, religious sects, that appear every month.
Prabhupada: Every month. Different sect.
Devotee: Two.
Prabhupada: Every month, what do you mean by every month?
Guru-gauranga: Every month there are two new religious sects that appear.
Prabhupada: Oh. And they'll accept God?
Guru-gauranga: Well, they invent their own God their own way. In Europe they laugh at the Americans and their religions because they know this.
Prabhupada: If religion, new religion, that means new God? Or what it is?
Satsvarupa: New way of approaching God.
Prabhupada: But you want to approve God, if we agree to that, then this is the easiest process. You chant God's name and you approach. Why again new? This is the easiest proposition. Eh? Chant God's name and you approach.
Pusta-krsna: In the Bhagavad-gita it says that those who are different modes of nature, they have different types of charity and different types of religion. So does this mean religions that are already established in the Vedas or...
Prabhupada: That is means conditional religion. That is not absolute religion. In order to, what is called, summarize all types of religion... Just like Krsna says, mama vartmanuvartante manusyah partha sarvasah, "Everyone is trying to come to Me." So they are coming by different paths. So that is accepted. Now, when he says that "I am here. You're coming to Me, now you just surrender. Then everything is all right." Why don't you accept that? Why do you insist, "No, I shall come in a different way, different path"? What is this nonsense? God is saying "All right, you have got different paths, but give up that. Now simply surrender to Me." Where I am objection? If I am a really lover of God, God is saying like that, why not accept that? Why shall I pay for different paths? Eh? Suppose in this jungle you are scattered and you are searching "Where is Prabhupada? Where is Prabhupada?" And somebody says, "Come this way. Come this way." And if I say, "Not this way, that way. Come here. Come here." What is your objection? Eh? Either you don't want me... (laughs) Eh? You don't want me. You want to play some whimsical way. You are not serious about me? If you're actually serious about God, God says here, sarva-dharman parityajya mam e... [Bg. 18.66]. "Give up all this nonsense. Just surrender un..." Why they do not accept it. Eh? What is your answer, Satsvarupa?
Satsvarupa: I think your answer's that they want to play a kind of hide and seek. They don't really want to go.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is their foolishness. They don't want to go.
Guru-gauranga: They say they would rather search than find.
Prabhupada: But search. That's all right. Search means you do not know, therefore searching. But if you're searching for something and you get that something then why you should search any more? Searching means you do not know. You're searching. But if I say "Come here. I am here." Just like child is crying. There is no toys, his mother... Mother says, "Child, come here." He comes here. That's all. That is real searching. Or what is this searching? Either you do not know what you are searching or you are making a false play.
Devotee: Right.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Is this one bathroom? Religion means actually relation with God, to know God. They don't think like that. They say religion does not mean search of God. Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: They say that there's one place that you cannot see God.
Prabhupada: That's all right but what do you mean by religion first of all? I cannot see God. That is another thing. But that does not mean there is no God.
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: I cannot see the president. That does not mean there is no president.
Pusta-krsna: Jaya.
Prabhupada: Because I cannot see therefore there's no president. Is that very good logic?
Devotee: No.
Prabhupada: You may not see. You're unfit to see. You're not qualified to see. But why there shall be no God?
Satsvarupa: I was taught that that is God's nature, invisible spirit.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Devotee: I was taught in religion that God... That is His nature, not that I can't see Him, but He is a person. But that I can't see Him because He's invisible spirit.
Prabhupada: Invisible. That means you have no eyes to see. Even if He is spirit. That's all right. But invisible means you have no capacity to see. That is the meaning of invisible. That I cannot see. So you're disqualified, that does not mean He's dis... not visible. He's visible but not to you because you have no eyes to see Him. That we also say. Therefore we have to prepare the eyes to see. That is religion. I cannot see at the present moment that does not mean I shall stop (indistinct). I must prepare myself how to see. That is real intelligence. (end)
Pusta-krsna: We were just reading that.
Prabhupada: The point is that supposing this twenty to thirty-six years is nice age... For women. But before twenty years, she is sacked, and her health is broken. What she'll produce, children? Because this is... The girls, from twelve years, thirteen years, nowadays, they begin sex.
Pusta-krsna: That's true.
Prabhupada: Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: That's true.
Prabhupada: So before she reaches twenty years, twenty times she must have taken contraceptive method. And that means her health is ruined. What she'll produce? They are given in the schools, colleges, contraceptive tablets. And they are prohibiting, "Don't get child before twenty years." What is this nonsense? This is the difficulty. All rascals, they have taken leadership. Women should, should be allowed to beget children as soon as they're able. But as soon as the pregnancy is there, there should not be any sex life. They have got sex life in pregnancy also. So many things, we have... We can guide them all, all these rascals. From sastra, we can guide them. Therefore immediately human society, a class of men who are fully conversant with the Vedic conclusion required to guide these rascals, socially, politically, in every respect.
Guru-gauranga: They say that they have made studies, Srila Prabhupada...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guru-gauranga: They have made studies and that if a woman gives birth at the age less than twenty there are more chances that she die according to their statistics.
Prabhupada: Their statistics in the western world... Inductive knowledge is always imperfect. They have not seen in India. My wife gave birth at the age of fourteen years. She is still living. She is ten years younger than me. So sixty-eight, sixty-nine, she is. She gave birth child at the age of fourteen. In 1918 I was married, and 1921 she gave birth the child, my first son. And she was never unhealthy; neither she had to go to the hospital for maternity hell. Natural delivery of child. Hare Krsna. This illicit sex, even with wife... If sex life is indulged after the period of menstruation, that is also illicit sex. There are so many rules and regulations about sex life in Vedic culture. That is real use of sex life. In the Bhagavad-gita, sex life, He says that dharmaviruddhah kamo 'smi. "Sex life which is under regulative principle of the Vedic knowledge," Krsna says, "I am that sex life. I am that sex life." And beyond that, that is illicit sex life. And yesterday I was reading that dharma... When there is irreligious sex, then it increases varna-sankara, unwanted population. So the modern civilization, they're letting loose the women for prostitution, and they want nice children. That is not possible. Why this park is kept like this?
Guru-gauranga: It's more of a forest, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guru-gauranga: But this is surprising. Generally, they cut.
Nitai: In Los Angeles, you were saying about the system of monogamy, how in this way most of the women are left unmarried.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is prostitution. If a man... First of all, the problem is... That they do not know, that they should produce sufficient food grains. These, all these contraceptive methods, this and that, monogamy, they are trying for checking population. Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: The basic principle is to check population. Now, if they follow the Vedic principles, automatically the population is checked. Just like brahmacari. So if the, both the boys and girls remain brahmacari, then where is the unwanted population? Where is the question of this contraceptive method?
Nitai: No need.
Prabhupada: No need. Then when the brahmacari is allowed to become grhastha, he can keep more than one wife if he's able to provide them nicely. Here they marry today and tomorrow divorce. The... No meaning of marriage. Simply prostitution. Because he does not need a wife. His sex life is satisfied in so many ways. So why he should be affected, attached to wife? And why the wife should be attached to the husband? Therefore divorce. It is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Dam-patye ratim eva hi. In the Kali-yuga, married life means sex life. For sex satisfaction, they'll marry. Otherwise, there is no need of marrying. That is... Svikara eva codvahe. Marriage means that they, both of them agree that "We shall live together for some time." These things are happening, already foretold. By agreement, "Yes, we shall live together." That is marriage. "And then I may divorce." Actually, they do not know what is the meaning of marriage. All dependent on sex. Rati. Rati means... Dam-patye ratim eva hi. Vipratve sutram eva hi: "To become brahmana means just have a thread only."
Pusta-krsna: Even big scientists and politicians, same thing.
Prabhupada: Everywhere. It is a civilization of rascals. That's all. That duskrtina. Duskrtina means they have got merit. As human being, everyone has got merit. That is used for sinful activities. That's all. Duskrtina. Therefore they are godless. Na mam duskrtino mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. All these sinful men, rascals, they don't care for God. They don't care for next life. This is the position. They don't believe in these things. If they believe in these things, they'll have to be systematized. They don't want that. The life is, what is called, extravagancy? No? Now it is a... Systematically they are following. The karmis, they work hard, whole week, and the end of the weekend, they call any beautiful woman, pay her something, don't take responsibility of family life. This has become a system. Is it not?
Guru-gauranga: This is why the women wish to have the same rights as the men because they're not being taken care of at home.
Prabhupada: Animal life. (pause) What are these trees? Oak tree? No.
Nitai: Yeah, oaks.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Nitai: Some of them are oaks. (pause)
Prabhupada: We can get out from this?
Guru-gauranga: Yes. [break]
Pusta-krsna: ...Vedic culture, Srila Prabhupada, if there was illicit sex going on?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta-krsna: In Vedic culture, what would King Pariksit do?
Prabhupada: We don't find any illicit sex. They were having more than one wife. So there was no question of illicit sex. If one wife is pregnant, then the man, he goes to another wife. Man has got that tendency. So as soon as she is pregnant, she is kept separate. Even we have seen. When the girl is pregnant, she goes to her mother's care, does not live with the husband. What is that?
Pusta-krsna: Off in the distance.
Prabhupada: A girl is pregnant, suppose, then, during her pregnancy period, ten months, there is no sex, and unless the child becomes six months old, there is no sex. The thing is that in the modern world, sex life has become the only pleasure. They do not know anything else. Therefore everything is discredited. And another thing is they are afraid of keeping more than one wife for population. But if they produce sufficient food, where is the question of overpopulation? Another thing they have made, especially in the western world, they don't want to produce food because they know, "We shall kill one animal and eat. Why take so much trouble? Let me increase industry, and I shall push my button. Money will come. And the slaughterhouse there. We shall eat." So they are getting money. By money, they are getting women to the choice. They are getting food, meat, and they're enjoying drinking. So money has become the whole thing. "Bring money some way or other and enjoy." This is the purport of civilization. They do not care what is God, that human body is meant for God realization. They have no such ideas. "There is nothing after death. So so long I am living, let me enjoy by the tongue, by the genital and by the belly. Use the tongue for eating anything which is palatable, which I like. Never mind what it is. And then genital also. Bring as many women..." This is civilization, modern. There is no question of sinful life or pious life, next life. (laughs) Another, their theory is that only on this planet there is living entities... [break] If there is sufficient rain in the desert, it will be also hot. [break] ...tells us in the sastras how to live comfortably and advance in spiritual life. And they should give advice to others. That is the business of the Krsna consciousness. Lokanam hita-karinau. Nana-sastra-vicaranaika-
Pusta-krsna: Prabhupada, their philosophy is that this is all there is, this life. After death, it's finished. And so they're trying to enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta-krsna: So if they have information that this is not the only life, then won't they automatically become more austere?
Prabhupada: Yes. (indistinct) consider what kind of life I'm going to get. (indistinct) They have made their own rascal philosophy that there is no life after death. Although they're experiencing that I am changing my body in this duration of life. I know that I have a child's body, child's body. That body's finished. Still I'm existing. So why I shall not exist after this body's finished? Where is the logic? Where is the... The simple logic they cannot understand. So dull brain. And they're advanced in civilization, big, big professor, big, big Indologist, this logic. The simple reason they cannot understand. What did they say? You have talked to many men about this logic?
Guru-gauranga: About life after death?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: They say it doesn't go beyond... They have to agree that the baby's body is gone and the young man's body is gone. They have to agree. But they say that that doesn't mean logically that I have to take another body.
Prabhupada: What is the other logic? If you have changed your body so many times, why not change this body? What is your reason? Natural course it should be that I have changed so many bodies so this body I shall change. This is natural logic. And what is his logic?
Satsvarupa: So he said... They say it may be or it may not be.
Prabhupada: But that is your rascaldom. But this is the real logic.
Guru-gauranga: They also say that it is not... It is the same body, more or less...
Prabhupada: Same body...
Guru-gauranga: But it is just developed, but it is not a different body.
Prabhupada: No. Developed means different body. Development means different body. They cannot say it is not different body. Then if it is not different, then go to childhood again. That means they're not human being. Human being means with logic. According to their definition, man is rational animal. They're not even rational. Like cats and dogs. There is no rationality. Cats and dogs also they have got rationality. Logic plus authority, Krsna says. How you can deny? That means they don't agree with Krsna's instruction. You see? This logic, I am not giving this logic. This logic is given by Krsna. So unless... The difficulty is that unless they accept the authority, it is very difficult. Logic is there. The authority is there.
Pusta-krsna: They feel, Prabhupada, that they've been cheated so much by so many philosophies that when we say that the Vedas are written by a person who's not contaminated by the modes of nature, they say, "Well, how is this possible? My experience is that everyone who's written books, they're all materialistic and therefore the philosophy must be like that."
Prabhupada: But you must be following some philosophy. You're not without philosophy. Even the hippies they're also follow... They've got their own philosophy.
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: So you cannot give up philosophy. Now it is misfortune that you met with the cheaters. So make your fortune now. Believe in Krsna's philosophy. Then you'll be happy.
Pusta-krsna: Jaya.
Prabhupada: That argument that we don't believe... But you're believing in Lenin's philosophy, the communist. And what is this hippies, their philosophy, Allen Ginsberg's philosophy? Ha? Debauch number one. (laughter)
Satsvarupa: Ultimately, they don't follow anyone, although they may like people, they...
Prabhupada: No, they follow.
Devotee: They say our only...
Prabhupada: But they are manufacture their own philosophy. Philosophy there must be. They've become their own authority. That is a chaotic condition. Authority he has made himself. Yes. I am my authority. Authority has to accept. But he does not know that I am fool No. 1, what is the value of my authority? Authority he must accept. But he makes himself his authority. That is the tendency now. "In my opinion." All rascals say like that. "In my opinion." He does not... He's rascal No. 1, what is the value of his opinion? But he'll say, "In my opinion." That is the difficulty. And this is called creative philosophy. Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is going on. All rascals have creative philosophy.
Pusta-krsna: When I hear in the United States there's a saying, a slogan, amongst the young people: "Do your own thing." And also in India now when I go there they say, "So many men, so many minds."
Prabhupada: Yes, that is Vivekananda. Yata mata tata patha. That means everyone can become authority. This is their philosophy.
Satsvarupa: And this they praised as good.
Prabhupada: Ha?
Satsvarupa: And others praise this as...
Pusta-krsna: Very tolerant, liberal.
Prabhupada: :Yes, but our philosophy, Krsna says, "You rascal, give up everything. Just surrender unto Me." This is our philosophy. "You rascal, you give up everything and surrender unto Me." This is our philosophy.
Devotee: Haribol.
Prabhupada: Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. He's decrying this Vivekananda philosophy. Rascal philosophy. There was a suggestion when I (indistinct) international, I was going to register, they suggested, "Why don't you make God conscious? Why you make Krsna conscious?" And if I had made God conscious so many rascals will bring so many Gods. Therefore specifically only Krsna God. That's all. That is authorized. If you like, you take other's God. But this is our philosophy, mam ekam saranam vraja. Was it not wise conclusion?
Guru-gauranga: Yes.
Prabhupada: If I have made a little liberal, God conscious, all rascals would have brought... "Here is my God." To stop this nonsense I made it Krsna conscious. Krsna is God only. Nobody is God. If you like this philosophy, come others' God. I don't want your cooperation. What is the use of cooperation of some rascaldom?
Guru-gauranga: That man yesterday wanted to know if we collaborated with other groups.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is collaboration. We are proposing this collaboration. All religion, they're after... Religion means to accept God. So if you accept God, we accept God. Then where is no cooperation? This is cooperation. But if you don't know what is God, we know. That is the difference. Ask this Christians, Mohammedans, and any other religious group, they have got a conception of God, ask them what is the form of God, what does He do, what is His..., so many things. They do not know. But we know.
Pusta-krsna: They simply say He is spirit.
Prabhupada: Yes. That's all, vague idea. We say, "Here is God." So if you actually believe in God, why don't you take this God and the whole, all different types of religions become one? If you accept God, then we say, "Here is God." So where is the point of difference? How do you differ? Why do you say that you are different religion, my religion? Why do you say, "My religion"? Everyone... This is the only religion: to know God and love Him. What is their objection? To accept God, Krsna? What is their object? What is their reason?
Pusta-krsna: They want to gratify their senses.
Prabhupada: Why do you make a different God? If you actually believe in God, I say, "Here is God." Why don't you accept? Eh?
Satsvarupa: Impersonalism. They don't want...
Prabhupada: That is not God. God is person. That means you do not know God.
Devotee: They say Jesus Christ is God too.
Prabhupada: Yes. Jesus Christ is God. That's right. But Jesus Christ said, "I'm son of God."
Pusta-krsna: Yes. He said, "I'm at the right hand of the Father."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta-krsna: So he's different from the Father.
Prabhupada: Even not different. But he says that he's son of God. We accept it. Why there are so many religions? If religion means acceptance of God, then here is God. Then make one religion. Why so many different religions?
Guru-gauranga: In America there are two new sects, religious sects, that appear every month.
Prabhupada: Every month. Different sect.
Devotee: Two.
Prabhupada: Every month, what do you mean by every month?
Guru-gauranga: Every month there are two new religious sects that appear.
Prabhupada: Oh. And they'll accept God?
Guru-gauranga: Well, they invent their own God their own way. In Europe they laugh at the Americans and their religions because they know this.
Prabhupada: If religion, new religion, that means new God? Or what it is?
Satsvarupa: New way of approaching God.
Prabhupada: But you want to approve God, if we agree to that, then this is the easiest process. You chant God's name and you approach. Why again new? This is the easiest proposition. Eh? Chant God's name and you approach.
Pusta-krsna: In the Bhagavad-gita it says that those who are different modes of nature, they have different types of charity and different types of religion. So does this mean religions that are already established in the Vedas or...
Prabhupada: That is means conditional religion. That is not absolute religion. In order to, what is called, summarize all types of religion... Just like Krsna says, mama vartmanuvartante manusyah partha sarvasah, "Everyone is trying to come to Me." So they are coming by different paths. So that is accepted. Now, when he says that "I am here. You're coming to Me, now you just surrender. Then everything is all right." Why don't you accept that? Why do you insist, "No, I shall come in a different way, different path"? What is this nonsense? God is saying "All right, you have got different paths, but give up that. Now simply surrender to Me." Where I am objection? If I am a really lover of God, God is saying like that, why not accept that? Why shall I pay for different paths? Eh? Suppose in this jungle you are scattered and you are searching "Where is Prabhupada? Where is Prabhupada?" And somebody says, "Come this way. Come this way." And if I say, "Not this way, that way. Come here. Come here." What is your objection? Eh? Either you don't want me... (laughs) Eh? You don't want me. You want to play some whimsical way. You are not serious about me? If you're actually serious about God, God says here, sarva-dharman parityajya mam e... [Bg. 18.66]. "Give up all this nonsense. Just surrender un..." Why they do not accept it. Eh? What is your answer, Satsvarupa?
Satsvarupa: I think your answer's that they want to play a kind of hide and seek. They don't really want to go.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is their foolishness. They don't want to go.
Guru-gauranga: They say they would rather search than find.
Prabhupada: But search. That's all right. Search means you do not know, therefore searching. But if you're searching for something and you get that something then why you should search any more? Searching means you do not know. You're searching. But if I say "Come here. I am here." Just like child is crying. There is no toys, his mother... Mother says, "Child, come here." He comes here. That's all. That is real searching. Or what is this searching? Either you do not know what you are searching or you are making a false play.
Devotee: Right.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Is this one bathroom? Religion means actually relation with God, to know God. They don't think like that. They say religion does not mean search of God. Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: They say that there's one place that you cannot see God.
Prabhupada: That's all right but what do you mean by religion first of all? I cannot see God. That is another thing. But that does not mean there is no God.
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: I cannot see the president. That does not mean there is no president.
Pusta-krsna: Jaya.
Prabhupada: Because I cannot see therefore there's no president. Is that very good logic?
Devotee: No.
Prabhupada: You may not see. You're unfit to see. You're not qualified to see. But why there shall be no God?
Satsvarupa: I was taught that that is God's nature, invisible spirit.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Devotee: I was taught in religion that God... That is His nature, not that I can't see Him, but He is a person. But that I can't see Him because He's invisible spirit.
Prabhupada: Invisible. That means you have no eyes to see. Even if He is spirit. That's all right. But invisible means you have no capacity to see. That is the meaning of invisible. That I cannot see. So you're disqualified, that does not mean He's dis... not visible. He's visible but not to you because you have no eyes to see Him. That we also say. Therefore we have to prepare the eyes to see. That is religion. I cannot see at the present moment that does not mean I shall stop (indistinct). I must prepare myself how to see. That is real intelligence. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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