Your Position? Conditioned!

Geneva, June 5, 1974
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Prabhupada:Prakrteh kriyamanani [Bg. 3.27]. By prakrti, by nature, he is pulled by the ears, "Come here!" "Yes, sir." "Come there!" "Yes, sir." And he is thinking, not controlled. As soon as he eats little more than he requires, "You must starve three days!" And he is not controlled. Just see. How much foolishness. And they are getting Nobel Prize. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. Sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh [SB 2.3.19].Pusta-krsna: No one has ever gotten a Nobel Prize for saying, "Yes, we are all controlled."
Prabhupada: Because the man who is awarding him Nobel Prize, he is also a rascal, (laughs) and he is also rascal. The society of rascals, that's all. My Guru Maharaja used to say, therefore, "This is a society of cheaters and cheated." That's all. Somebody is cheater, and somebody is cheated. And they have made a civilization of cheaters and cheated. That's all. They have got good sense. They have... Just try to utilize it. Just like last night that gentleman, "In my opinion..." He never thinks that what he is, what is the value of his opinion. But he thinks, "In my opinion..." And what is this nonsense? What is your opinion? Then he admits "No, no, I have no objection." That is progress, that he admitted his fault. What is the value of your opinion? I said, "We have no opinion. We take the opinion of Krsna, that's all." We have no opinion.
Guru-gauranga: You caught him in the end, though, when you said, "If Krsna is man, then this is no value." And then he said, "How do you know Krsna really spoke this? How do you know this is really Krsna?" So actually, he just did not accept Krsna from the beginning.
Prabhupada: No. He thinks that "Krsna is a bigger philosopher, that's all. And I am also philosopher. So He has got His opinion, I have got my opinion. That's all." They think that. That is described, avajananti mam mudhah: [Bg. 9.11] "These rascals thinks Me as one of him, one like him." Mudha. Avajananti mam mudhah. Therefore Dr. Radhakrishnan and other rascals like him, they think, "Why Krsna shall say, 'Surrender unto Me?' This is sophistry." What is the meaning of sophistry?
Pusta-krsna: Sophist is half-wise and half-foolish.
Prabhupada: Yes. He thinks that "I am as good philosopher as Krsna. Why shall I surrender to Krsna? I have got my own opinion." He thinks like that. And that rascal is writing commentary on Bhagavad-gita. And it is selling also. Therefore we presented Bhagavad-gita As It Is, not a rascal ism.
Yogesvara: People buy his book because he is the former president of India. They think he's authority.
Prabhupada: That's all. He does not know that he is a fool number one, fully under the con... Now his position. I saw him in Madras.
Pusta-krsna: Paralyzed, paralyzed.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, you cannot recognize. And he gives his opinion. Just see. Nobody thinks that "If I am not controlled, I do not wish to die, why there is death? I do not wish to become old. Why there is old age?" A common sense. "I do not wish to be diseased. Why there is disease? And still, I am thinking that I am not controlled." That means no brain even, common sense. Pisaci paile yena mati-cchanna haya. Just like ghostly haunted, madman. He stands on the st..., "I am the king." He stands on the street. It is like that. He does not know, "At any moment I will be knocked by any car and I shall die." But he thinks like, "I am the king." Madman. They are all madmen.
Yogesvara: I remember when I was living downtown eastside New York, there was one drunkard who was standing on the street directing traffic, trying to stop the cars.
Prabhupada: Yes. They do that. We have seen that. He thinks, "I am the controller. He must do..." (laughter)
Pusta-krsna: Everyone who has read your Bhagavad-gita, Srila Prabhupada, after having read so many Bhagavad-gitas, everyone has understood that "At last Bhagavad-gita is very clear and simple to me. I have not understood before."
Prabhupada: Yes. Because all these so-called Bhagavad-gita commentaries written by rascals, that's all. They are all rascals. They cannot understand what is Bhagavad-gita. The MacMillan Company's trade manager has admitted that while others Bhagavad-gita is selling less, this is increasing. (pause)
Yogesvara: So I prepared one argument this morning.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Yogesvara: There's a theory of the psychologists that -- in some ways it's similar to our idea -- that people are conditioned, that according to their environment, according to their upbringing, according to their parentage and so on, they have a kind of way of acting and thinking. So their argument is that Krsna consciousness is just another kind of conditioning, that you leave one kind of conditioning, a material conditioning, but then you also enter into another kind of conditioning when you live in the temple.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is conditioning, certainly. The position is that you must be under certain condition. That is your position. So if you become conditioned by God, that is your perfection. And if you become conditioned by maya, that is your trouble. You must be conditioned. That is your position. You cannot be independent. And therefore, if you become naturally conditioned, then that is your happy life. Just as child, he must be conditioned. But when he is conditioned by his parents, that is his perfection of life. Your position is that you must be conditioned. Why you are thinking to be independent? That is your rascaldom. You should always know that "I must be conditioned. That is my life." Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah [Bg. 9.13]. Condition. Still conditioned, but daivim prakrtim asritah, under the spiritual nature. That is Mahatma. Mahatma is not independent. He is also conditioned. So first of all, we must understand that our natural position is to be conditioned. Now, why, where I shall be conditioned? Therefore Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. You condition here. "You become conditioned by Me. Then you will be happy." Those who are thinking that "We shall not be conditioned," they are still in maya. You cannot be without condition.
nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam
eko yo bahunam vidadhati kaman
 (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13)
So that one God is supplying the necessities of life. That is His condition. Suppose you are giving me all necessities of life. Then it is, the best part of my valor is to live under your control. That's all. I cannot be independent. It is not possible. That is the wrong philosophy, that these rascals are thinking of complete independence. That means they are becoming more and more conditioned by this material external energy.
Yogesvara: Their program is that if a child's problems come from the wrong kind of conditioning, then he should be given the opportunity in childhood of a good family, good education, and so on, and that way there won't be bad reaction later on in life.
Prabhupada: That means he should be given chance for better conditioning. Conditioning must go on. It cannot be said that "Let the child be given freedom." No.
Yogesvara: Yeah, that's what they say. They say it's freedom when there is a lack of bad conditioning.
Prabhupada: That is... Bad condition is good conditioning. Where is freedom? From bad conditioning you are suggesting good conditioning. That is not freedom. Just like you are in the prison house, you are badly conditioned, but the so-called freedom -- you are still conditioned under the laws of the state. You are not free. But from bad conditioning to good conditioning. And if you obey the state laws, then you are good citizen. But you are conditioned. How you think of freedom? That is your foolishness. Just like a servant. He is in some mercantile firm. He is trying to seek out some government service. But he cannot be free.
Yogesvara: So in other words, they would say your idea is to give them a better conditioning.
Prabhupada: No, no, no, not better conditioning. You must know what is the best condition and take that condition. The best condition is to be under the control of Krsna. That is your best first-class way.
Pusta-krsna: You said that in the Bhagavad-gita when it speaks of being desireless, it means that actually one is desiring for Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that na dhanam na janam na sundarim kavitam va jagad-isa kamaye: [Cc. Antya 20.29, Siksastaka 4] "I don't want this." "Don't want, don't want, don't want" does not mean he becomes negative. "I want Krsna. So many things, 'Don't want,' but actually I want Krsna. And that is my life." And not that "Don't want, don't want, don't want, then become zero." Not that.
Yogesvara: No, they also say we know what we want. We want food for everyone, we want...
Prabhupada: No, no, he does not know. Therefore he is changing from this place to that place. He does not know. If he had known, then he would have surrendered immediately to Krsna. That is the defect. He does not know.
Yogesvara: But the idea is "We can accomplish the same good results even without Krsna."
Prabhupada: That he does not know. He is a fool. He does not know what is a good result. He will change again. He is a rascal. He is putting himself in this condition; again he'll desire another condition. That is the change of body. That is his wanting. Sometimes he's taking the body of a dog, sometimes he is taking the body of a demigod. Bhramatam upary adhah [1.5.18]. Down, just like, what is that? Merry-go-round.
Pusta-krsna: Ferris wheel, ferris wheel goes up and down.
Prabhupada: Sometimes "I am so up," and again come down. This is going on. Ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan. Therefore, in this way, going round, one who is very, very fortunate, he, guru-krsna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151], he comes to the devotional life by the mercy of guru and Krsna. This is the beginning of Caitanya Mahaprabhu's instruction. They are under the myth, under the spell of maya. This is going on.
Yogesvara: Well, they say "You are distributing food, and we are also distributing food. You are opening schools, and we are also opening schools."
Prabhupada: Yes. But we are opening school for Krsna consciousness. Therefore the rascals, they cannot understand what is bhakti and what is karma. Bhakti looks like karma, but it's not karma. It is bhakti. They cannot understand what is bhakti. Bhakti means the same karma, but for Krsna's sake. That is bhakti. Just like the same fight, battlefield, but because it was done for Krsna, Arjuna is accepted, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me: [Bg. 4.3] "You are My devotee. You are My very dear." But what did he do? His business was to fight. He fought, that's all. But fought for Krsna. That is the secret. He did not change his fighting capacity as a warrior. But he changed his mentality. His mentality was that "Why shall I kill my kinsmen?" But Krsna wanted, "Oh, that's all right." So therefore service is for Krsna. That's all. Not for his sense gratification. Karmi means sense gratification, and bhakta means Krsna's sense gratification. That is the difference. Sense gratification is there. When you do it for your personal sense grati..., it is karma. And you do it for Krsna's sense gratification, it is bhakti. So therefore they look similar, but the quality is different. Harer nama [Cc. Adi 17.21]. Dhare prema nama. The gopis, they acted like prostitutes, but the center was Krsna. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommends, ramya kacid upasana vrajavadhu-vargena ya kalpita (?): "Oh there is no more better mode of worship than it was conceived by the gopis." What is their conception? Prostitution, that's all. Simple prostitute. Krsna was a beautiful boy and they were attracted by the beauty of Krsna. They wanted Him as their husband, lover, to dance with them. That is the gopis. And these rascals are taking that "This is very good. Krsna also did like this. So let us do; gather some girls and dance, and we become Krsna." This is Mayavada, Therefore Vyasadeva has devoted nine cantos just to understand Krsna. Then try to understand what is the gopis' behavior with Krsna. But these rascals jump over it. Sahajiyas. Jump over Krsna's dealing with the gopis. And that is Bhagavata. Because rascals, they shall remain rascal.
Pusta-krsna: If the Mayavadi accepts the principle that bhakti is good, but at the end he throws it away, will he have a change of heart?
Prabhupada: That is Mayavada. That is Mayavada. They have no conception of the eternity of bhakti. That is Mayavada.
Pusta-krsna: Will the change in heart come about for such persons because they're somehow associated with Krsna?
Prabhupada: Just like Kamsa associated with Krsna always, their position is like that. That is not bhakti. Bhakti is anukulyena krsnanusilanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], favorable, not to reject Krsna or kill Krsna, and think of Krsna, "How to kill Him? How to kill Him? How to kill Him?" That is also Krsna consciousness, but that is not favorable. Therefore it is not bhakti. But they get the salvation because they have some way or other thought of Krsna. Impersonal salvation. They are not allowed to enter into the pastimes of Krsna.
Satsvarupa: In the beginning of devotional service, the concentration is on the service more than on Krsna the person.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: But then gradually, as we serve and serve and concentrate on the service, then there's realization.
Prabhupada: Yes, realization comes.
Pusta-krsna: Of who we're serving.
Prabhupada: The disciple serves Krsna under the direction of spiritual master. Vidhi-marga, regulative principles. Vidhi-marga, raga-marga. [break] ...gunarna jata nat krta mukha santi (?). So, I think it is mud.
Satsvarupa: Here it's getting more and more moist, dew. [break]
Prabhupada: ...friend, but what is my business? My business is to serve the senses, that's all. Kamadinam, kama, krodha, lobha, moha, matsarya, mada, the six kinds of sense gratification I am doing. This is actual... Just like this man, he is thinking he is very big man, but he's servant of his dog. Is it not? But he is thinking that he is very big man. He does not think that "What is my business? To serve this dog in the morning." He has no sense. Because he has no prescribed duty to serve Krsna... He must serve, and therefore he must serve dog. That is his position. But still, he's thinking, "Why these foolish people are chanting Hare Krsna? I am serving the dog. I am very big man." He has become very big man by serving the dog, and we are trying to serve Krsna. We...
Pusta-krsna: ...even though it is covered by smoke.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta-krsna: That verse.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta-krsna: That even though one's activities in the material world are covered by faults, still one should perform his activities.
Prabhupada: Yes. In India there is a Hindi proverb, bekase begar achar (?)... (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva

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The Meaning Of Marriage

Geneva, June 7, 1974
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Pusta-krsna: In the Bhagavatam, you said that by the age of sixteen, a girl should be married, or twenty-four for a man. We were just reading that...Prabhupada: That is the maximum.
Pusta-krsna: We were just reading that.
Prabhupada: The point is that supposing this twenty to thirty-six years is nice age... For women. But before twenty years, she is sacked, and her health is broken. What she'll produce, children? Because this is... The girls, from twelve years, thirteen years, nowadays, they begin sex.
Pusta-krsna: That's true.
Prabhupada: Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: That's true.
Prabhupada: So before she reaches twenty years, twenty times she must have taken contraceptive method. And that means her health is ruined. What she'll produce? They are given in the schools, colleges, contraceptive tablets. And they are prohibiting, "Don't get child before twenty years." What is this nonsense? This is the difficulty. All rascals, they have taken leadership. Women should, should be allowed to beget children as soon as they're able. But as soon as the pregnancy is there, there should not be any sex life. They have got sex life in pregnancy also. So many things, we have... We can guide them all, all these rascals. From sastra, we can guide them. Therefore immediately human society, a class of men who are fully conversant with the Vedic conclusion required to guide these rascals, socially, politically, in every respect.
Guru-gauranga: They say that they have made studies, Srila Prabhupada...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guru-gauranga: They have made studies and that if a woman gives birth at the age less than twenty there are more chances that she die according to their statistics.
Prabhupada: Their statistics in the western world... Inductive knowledge is always imperfect. They have not seen in India. My wife gave birth at the age of fourteen years. She is still living. She is ten years younger than me. So sixty-eight, sixty-nine, she is. She gave birth child at the age of fourteen. In 1918 I was married, and 1921 she gave birth the child, my first son. And she was never unhealthy; neither she had to go to the hospital for maternity hell. Natural delivery of child. Hare Krsna. This illicit sex, even with wife... If sex life is indulged after the period of menstruation, that is also illicit sex. There are so many rules and regulations about sex life in Vedic culture. That is real use of sex life. In the Bhagavad-gita, sex life, He says that dharmaviruddhah kamo 'smi. "Sex life which is under regulative principle of the Vedic knowledge," Krsna says, "I am that sex life. I am that sex life." And beyond that, that is illicit sex life. And yesterday I was reading that dharma... When there is irreligious sex, then it increases varna-sankara, unwanted population. So the modern civilization, they're letting loose the women for prostitution, and they want nice children. That is not possible. Why this park is kept like this?
Guru-gauranga: It's more of a forest, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guru-gauranga: But this is surprising. Generally, they cut.
Nitai: In Los Angeles, you were saying about the system of monogamy, how in this way most of the women are left unmarried.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is prostitution. If a man... First of all, the problem is... That they do not know, that they should produce sufficient food grains. These, all these contraceptive methods, this and that, monogamy, they are trying for checking population. Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: The basic principle is to check population. Now, if they follow the Vedic principles, automatically the population is checked. Just like brahmacari. So if the, both the boys and girls remain brahmacari, then where is the unwanted population? Where is the question of this contraceptive method?
Nitai: No need.
Prabhupada: No need. Then when the brahmacari is allowed to become grhastha, he can keep more than one wife if he's able to provide them nicely. Here they marry today and tomorrow divorce. The... No meaning of marriage. Simply prostitution. Because he does not need a wife. His sex life is satisfied in so many ways. So why he should be affected, attached to wife? And why the wife should be attached to the husband? Therefore divorce. It is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Dam-patye ratim eva hi. In the Kali-yuga, married life means sex life. For sex satisfaction, they'll marry. Otherwise, there is no need of marrying. That is... Svikara eva codvahe. Marriage means that they, both of them agree that "We shall live together for some time." These things are happening, already foretold. By agreement, "Yes, we shall live together." That is marriage. "And then I may divorce." Actually, they do not know what is the meaning of marriage. All dependent on sex. Rati. Rati means... Dam-patye ratim eva hi. Vipratve sutram eva hi: "To become brahmana means just have a thread only."
Pusta-krsna: Even big scientists and politicians, same thing.
Prabhupada: Everywhere. It is a civilization of rascals. That's all. That duskrtina. Duskrtina means they have got merit. As human being, everyone has got merit. That is used for sinful activities. That's all. Duskrtina. Therefore they are godless. Na mam duskrtino mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. All these sinful men, rascals, they don't care for God. They don't care for next life. This is the position. They don't believe in these things. If they believe in these things, they'll have to be systematized. They don't want that. The life is, what is called, extravagancy? No? Now it is a... Systematically they are following. The karmis, they work hard, whole week, and the end of the weekend, they call any beautiful woman, pay her something, don't take responsibility of family life. This has become a system. Is it not?
Guru-gauranga: This is why the women wish to have the same rights as the men because they're not being taken care of at home.
Prabhupada: Animal life. (pause) What are these trees? Oak tree? No.
Nitai: Yeah, oaks.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Nitai: Some of them are oaks. (pause)
Prabhupada: We can get out from this?
Guru-gauranga: Yes. [break]
Pusta-krsna: ...Vedic culture, Srila Prabhupada, if there was illicit sex going on?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta-krsna: In Vedic culture, what would King Pariksit do?
Prabhupada: We don't find any illicit sex. They were having more than one wife. So there was no question of illicit sex. If one wife is pregnant, then the man, he goes to another wife. Man has got that tendency. So as soon as she is pregnant, she is kept separate. Even we have seen. When the girl is pregnant, she goes to her mother's care, does not live with the husband. What is that?
Pusta-krsna: Off in the distance.
Prabhupada: A girl is pregnant, suppose, then, during her pregnancy period, ten months, there is no sex, and unless the child becomes six months old, there is no sex. The thing is that in the modern world, sex life has become the only pleasure. They do not know anything else. Therefore everything is discredited. And another thing is they are afraid of keeping more than one wife for population. But if they produce sufficient food, where is the question of overpopulation? Another thing they have made, especially in the western world, they don't want to produce food because they know, "We shall kill one animal and eat. Why take so much trouble? Let me increase industry, and I shall push my button. Money will come. And the slaughterhouse there. We shall eat." So they are getting money. By money, they are getting women to the choice. They are getting food, meat, and they're enjoying drinking. So money has become the whole thing. "Bring money some way or other and enjoy." This is the purport of civilization. They do not care what is God, that human body is meant for God realization. They have no such ideas. "There is nothing after death. So so long I am living, let me enjoy by the tongue, by the genital and by the belly. Use the tongue for eating anything which is palatable, which I like. Never mind what it is. And then genital also. Bring as many women..." This is civilization, modern. There is no question of sinful life or pious life, next life. (laughs) Another, their theory is that only on this planet there is living entities... [break] If there is sufficient rain in the desert, it will be also hot. [break] ...tells us in the sastras how to live comfortably and advance in spiritual life. And they should give advice to others. That is the business of the Krsna consciousness. Lokanam hita-karinau. Nana-sastra-vicaranaika-nipunau sad-dharma-samsthapakau. Lokanam hita-karinau tri-bhuvane manyau saranyakarau. This is the description of the Gosvamis. They are well versed in all different types of Vedic scriptures just to establish a peaceful society sad-dharma, very nice gentleman, peaceful society. Lokanam hita-karinau, for the benefit of the whole human society. Therefore they are honored all over the world. This is gosvami business, not to exploit (indistinct) live like irresponsible man, eat, drink, be merry and enjoy.
Pusta-krsna: Prabhupada, their philosophy is that this is all there is, this life. After death, it's finished. And so they're trying to enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta-krsna: So if they have information that this is not the only life, then won't they automatically become more austere?
Prabhupada: Yes. (indistinct) consider what kind of life I'm going to get. (indistinct) They have made their own rascal philosophy that there is no life after death. Although they're experiencing that I am changing my body in this duration of life. I know that I have a child's body, child's body. That body's finished. Still I'm existing. So why I shall not exist after this body's finished? Where is the logic? Where is the... The simple logic they cannot understand. So dull brain. And they're advanced in civilization, big, big professor, big, big Indologist, this logic. The simple reason they cannot understand. What did they say? You have talked to many men about this logic?
Guru-gauranga: About life after death?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: They say it doesn't go beyond... They have to agree that the baby's body is gone and the young man's body is gone. They have to agree. But they say that that doesn't mean logically that I have to take another body.
Prabhupada: What is the other logic? If you have changed your body so many times, why not change this body? What is your reason? Natural course it should be that I have changed so many bodies so this body I shall change. This is natural logic. And what is his logic?
Satsvarupa: So he said... They say it may be or it may not be.
Prabhupada: But that is your rascaldom. But this is the real logic.
Guru-gauranga: They also say that it is not... It is the same body, more or less...
Prabhupada: Same body...
Guru-gauranga: But it is just developed, but it is not a different body.
Prabhupada: No. Developed means different body. Development means different body. They cannot say it is not different body. Then if it is not different, then go to childhood again. That means they're not human being. Human being means with logic. According to their definition, man is rational animal. They're not even rational. Like cats and dogs. There is no rationality. Cats and dogs also they have got rationality. Logic plus authority, Krsna says. How you can deny? That means they don't agree with Krsna's instruction. You see? This logic, I am not giving this logic. This logic is given by Krsna. So unless... The difficulty is that unless they accept the authority, it is very difficult. Logic is there. The authority is there.
Pusta-krsna: They feel, Prabhupada, that they've been cheated so much by so many philosophies that when we say that the Vedas are written by a person who's not contaminated by the modes of nature, they say, "Well, how is this possible? My experience is that everyone who's written books, they're all materialistic and therefore the philosophy must be like that."
Prabhupada: But you must be following some philosophy. You're not without philosophy. Even the hippies they're also follow... They've got their own philosophy.
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: So you cannot give up philosophy. Now it is misfortune that you met with the cheaters. So make your fortune now. Believe in Krsna's philosophy. Then you'll be happy.
Pusta-krsna: Jaya.
Prabhupada: That argument that we don't believe... But you're believing in Lenin's philosophy, the communist. And what is this hippies, their philosophy, Allen Ginsberg's philosophy? Ha? Debauch number one. (laughter)
Satsvarupa: Ultimately, they don't follow anyone, although they may like people, they...
Prabhupada: No, they follow.
Devotee: They say our only...
Prabhupada: But they are manufacture their own philosophy. Philosophy there must be. They've become their own authority. That is a chaotic condition. Authority he has made himself. Yes. I am my authority. Authority has to accept. But he does not know that I am fool No. 1, what is the value of my authority? Authority he must accept. But he makes himself his authority. That is the tendency now. "In my opinion." All rascals say like that. "In my opinion." He does not... He's rascal No. 1, what is the value of his opinion? But he'll say, "In my opinion." That is the difficulty. And this is called creative philosophy. Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is going on. All rascals have creative philosophy.
Pusta-krsna: When I hear in the United States there's a saying, a slogan, amongst the young people: "Do your own thing." And also in India now when I go there they say, "So many men, so many minds."
Prabhupada: Yes, that is Vivekananda. Yata mata tata patha. That means everyone can become authority. This is their philosophy.
Satsvarupa: And this they praised as good.
Prabhupada: Ha?
Satsvarupa: And others praise this as...
Pusta-krsna: Very tolerant, liberal.
Prabhupada: :Yes, but our philosophy, Krsna says, "You rascal, give up everything. Just surrender unto Me." This is our philosophy. "You rascal, you give up everything and surrender unto Me." This is our philosophy.
Devotee: Haribol.
Prabhupada: Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. He's decrying this Vivekananda philosophy. Rascal philosophy. There was a suggestion when I (indistinct) international, I was going to register, they suggested, "Why don't you make God conscious? Why you make Krsna conscious?" And if I had made God conscious so many rascals will bring so many Gods. Therefore specifically only Krsna God. That's all. That is authorized. If you like, you take other's God. But this is our philosophy, mam ekam saranam vraja. Was it not wise conclusion?
Guru-gauranga: Yes.
Prabhupada: If I have made a little liberal, God conscious, all rascals would have brought... "Here is my God." To stop this nonsense I made it Krsna conscious. Krsna is God only. Nobody is God. If you like this philosophy, come others' God. I don't want your cooperation. What is the use of cooperation of some rascaldom?
Guru-gauranga: That man yesterday wanted to know if we collaborated with other groups.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is collaboration. We are proposing this collaboration. All religion, they're after... Religion means to accept God. So if you accept God, we accept God. Then where is no cooperation? This is cooperation. But if you don't know what is God, we know. That is the difference. Ask this Christians, Mohammedans, and any other religious group, they have got a conception of God, ask them what is the form of God, what does He do, what is His..., so many things. They do not know. But we know.
Pusta-krsna: They simply say He is spirit.
Prabhupada: Yes. That's all, vague idea. We say, "Here is God." So if you actually believe in God, why don't you take this God and the whole, all different types of religions become one? If you accept God, then we say, "Here is God." So where is the point of difference? How do you differ? Why do you say that you are different religion, my religion? Why do you say, "My religion"? Everyone... This is the only religion: to know God and love Him. What is their objection? To accept God, Krsna? What is their object? What is their reason?
Pusta-krsna: They want to gratify their senses.
Prabhupada: Why do you make a different God? If you actually believe in God, I say, "Here is God." Why don't you accept? Eh?
Satsvarupa: Impersonalism. They don't want...
Prabhupada: That is not God. God is person. That means you do not know God.
Devotee: They say Jesus Christ is God too.
Prabhupada: Yes. Jesus Christ is God. That's right. But Jesus Christ said, "I'm son of God."
Pusta-krsna: Yes. He said, "I'm at the right hand of the Father."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta-krsna: So he's different from the Father.
Prabhupada: Even not different. But he says that he's son of God. We accept it. Why there are so many religions? If religion means acceptance of God, then here is God. Then make one religion. Why so many different religions?
Guru-gauranga: In America there are two new sects, religious sects, that appear every month.
Prabhupada: Every month. Different sect.
Devotee: Two.
Prabhupada: Every month, what do you mean by every month?
Guru-gauranga: Every month there are two new religious sects that appear.
Prabhupada: Oh. And they'll accept God?
Guru-gauranga: Well, they invent their own God their own way. In Europe they laugh at the Americans and their religions because they know this.
Prabhupada: If religion, new religion, that means new God? Or what it is?
Satsvarupa: New way of approaching God.
Prabhupada: But you want to approve God, if we agree to that, then this is the easiest process. You chant God's name and you approach. Why again new? This is the easiest proposition. Eh? Chant God's name and you approach.
Pusta-krsna: In the Bhagavad-gita it says that those who are different modes of nature, they have different types of charity and different types of religion. So does this mean religions that are already established in the Vedas or...
Prabhupada: That is means conditional religion. That is not absolute religion. In order to, what is called, summarize all types of religion... Just like Krsna says, mama vartmanuvartante manusyah partha sarvasah, "Everyone is trying to come to Me." So they are coming by different paths. So that is accepted. Now, when he says that "I am here. You're coming to Me, now you just surrender. Then everything is all right." Why don't you accept that? Why do you insist, "No, I shall come in a different way, different path"? What is this nonsense? God is saying "All right, you have got different paths, but give up that. Now simply surrender to Me." Where I am objection? If I am a really lover of God, God is saying like that, why not accept that? Why shall I pay for different paths? Eh? Suppose in this jungle you are scattered and you are searching "Where is Prabhupada? Where is Prabhupada?" And somebody says, "Come this way. Come this way." And if I say, "Not this way, that way. Come here. Come here." What is your objection? Eh? Either you don't want me... (laughs) Eh? You don't want me. You want to play some whimsical way. You are not serious about me? If you're actually serious about God, God says here, sarva-dharman parityajya mam e... [Bg. 18.66]. "Give up all this nonsense. Just surrender un..." Why they do not accept it. Eh? What is your answer, Satsvarupa?
Satsvarupa: I think your answer's that they want to play a kind of hide and seek. They don't really want to go.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is their foolishness. They don't want to go.
Guru-gauranga: They say they would rather search than find.
Prabhupada: But search. That's all right. Search means you do not know, therefore searching. But if you're searching for something and you get that something then why you should search any more? Searching means you do not know. You're searching. But if I say "Come here. I am here." Just like child is crying. There is no toys, his mother... Mother says, "Child, come here." He comes here. That's all. That is real searching. Or what is this searching? Either you do not know what you are searching or you are making a false play.
Devotee: Right.
Prabhupada: (aside:) Is this one bathroom? Religion means actually relation with God, to know God. They don't think like that. They say religion does not mean search of God. Is it not?
Pusta-krsna: They say that there's one place that you cannot see God.
Prabhupada: That's all right but what do you mean by religion first of all? I cannot see God. That is another thing. But that does not mean there is no God.
Pusta-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: I cannot see the president. That does not mean there is no president.
Pusta-krsna: Jaya.
Prabhupada: Because I cannot see therefore there's no president. Is that very good logic?
Devotee: No.
Prabhupada: You may not see. You're unfit to see. You're not qualified to see. But why there shall be no God?
Satsvarupa: I was taught that that is God's nature, invisible spirit.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Devotee: I was taught in religion that God... That is His nature, not that I can't see Him, but He is a person. But that I can't see Him because He's invisible spirit.
Prabhupada: Invisible. That means you have no eyes to see. Even if He is spirit. That's all right. But invisible means you have no capacity to see. That is the meaning of invisible. That I cannot see. So you're disqualified, that does not mean He's dis... not visible. He's visible but not to you because you have no eyes to see Him. That we also say. Therefore we have to prepare the eyes to see. That is religion. I cannot see at the present moment that does not mean I shall stop (indistinct). I must prepare myself how to see. That is real intelligence. (end)

 

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Geneva, June 6, 1974
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Prabhupada: this Geneva very many churches.Guru-gauranga: Many churches in Geneva? No.
Prabhupada: No.
Guru-gauranga: Not so many.
Prabhupada: That means godless. Eh?
Guru-gauranga: Yes.
Prabhupada: When I first came to America, Butler, in Pennsylvania, that is small county, but at least one dozen churches I found. I very much appreciated, that the people are not... And they're going regularly, churches. I was invited in many churches. I was...
Yogesvara: To lecture?
Prabhupada: Yes. The, the girl, that, my friend's son's wife... He's Indian. He has married an English girl. So I was guest at his house. So that girl, Sally... Selly or Sally?
Yogesvara: Sally.
Prabhupada: She was arranging so many meetings. She was very intelligent girl. So churches, many churches, she... Some of the churches purchased my books.
Yogesvara: Recently, one of our sankirtana parties went to Butler, Pennsylvania, and one of the devotees met a priest on the street. He said: "Oh, yes, I remember your spiritual master. He was here."
Prabhupada: So I was giving lectures. They have churches. That means God conscious persons there. I never criticized church, mosque, never. Because whatever it may be, at least there is God consciousness. So they're good. In details... But when they disobey... I criticize only these rascals, disobey the commandments. Otherwise, we have no... We don't criticize.
Yogesvara: We're not sectarian.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yogesvara: We're not sectarian.
Prabhupada: Why? God is one. Why we shall be sectarian? According to his circumstances, he is doing. And that prayer is also bhakti, offering prayer. Sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam vandanam [SB 7.5.23]. This vandana is prayer. So that is bhakti, one of the items of bhakti.
Yogesvara: Everyone needs to be encouraged.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yogesvara: Everyone needs to be encouraged in their God consciousness.
Prabhupada: Smaranam pada-sevanam arcanam vandanam dasyam sakhyam atma-nivedanam. Bhaktis cen nava-laksana. Bhakti is demonstrated in nine different symptoms. So vandanam, offering prayers, that is bhakti.
Pusta-krsna: Is it required for them to have a spiritual master to guide them?
Prabhupada: Certainly. These rascals, the priest, they do not guide them. They are also fallen. Otherwise, Christian religion is very nice. If they follow. So many times they asked me. "Yes, if you follow your Christian religion, you'll be perfect." Caitanya Mahaprabhu proved devotional service from Koran. Yes.
Pusta-krsna: The Khan Vaisnavas.
Prabhupada: Yes. So it requires the devotee who can explain from any godly literature about God. How rascal they are! "Jesus Christ ate fish. Therefore we shall maintain big, big slaughterhouse." Just see the argument. Then, in the Bengali, mosa makta kanan (?). There was a mosquito, and one is asking, "Bring a cannon." "Bring a cannon." Mosa makta kanan. Jesus Christ ate somewhere. There was no food available to eat, might have. Accepting he ate, but that, does it mean that you have to maintain slaughterhouse? Just see. And besides that, he might have done anything. He's powerful. He can eat. Therefore the other day I said, "He can eat the whole world." But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction. That is Christianity.
Pusta-krsna: Many of the young people now, they look to the Bible for instruction, but they don't like to go to church at all. They feel that the church is hypocritical.
Prabhupada: Hypocritical, simply hypocritical. All these priests and cardinals and popes, they're all hypocritical. Getting high, highly salaried, high salaries, and drinking wine. And in America there is a hospital, five thousand drunkard priests are admitted there to cure their drinking habit. That was published in a paper. And they're sanctioning man to man marriage. That was published in that, what is that? Watch?
Satsvarupa: Watchtower?
Prabhupada: Watchtower. Yes.
Guru-gauranga: They did a survey among the Catholic priests...
Prabhupada: What is this? They do not fight. Why there is soldier? (laughter) What nonsense. Why there are soldiers? The neutral? 1939. This is Second World War. And First World War, 19...
Yogesvara: (reading) "Dedicated to the soldiers of Geneva who died in the service of their country."
Prabhupada: So that means it was attacked?
Guru-gauranga: Probably defending banks or things like that. Civil.
Prabhupada: Two wars, 1914 to 1918.
Swiss Devotee: They have big military poems. Yes.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Swiss Devotee: Many, many.
Guru-gauranga: We read in the papers, Srila Prabhupada, that they did a survey among the Capucine priests and fifty percent felt that their spiritual life was hampered by the fact that they could not have intimate relations with women. And forty percent felt that they were not allowed enough freedom and that obedience was not good.
Prabhupada: Not allowed in...?
Guru-gauranga: Enough freedom.
Prabhupada: What is that freedom?
Yogesvara: Illicit principles. Sinful principles.
Prabhupada: Oh. [break] ...fig, there are thousands of seeds. And each seed contains a tree like that. And there are thousands of fruits, figs. Where is that chemist who can prepare such figs? One, in Delhi, when our festival was going on, we invited a big chemist. He admitted that "Our chemical advance, scientific advancement is like this." He explained very nicely. You were present?
Yogesvara: Where?
Prabhupada: In Delhi? He said that a man who has learned the art to, what is called, barking like dog, and people will go to see, purchasing ticket, ten rupees, twenty rupees, how the man is barking like a dog. And there are so many dogs barking. They won't see. This is our advancement. If a man has artificially learned how to bark, they'll go to see by paying fees. And the natural barking, they don't care. So these rascals are like that. They're trying to manufacture life. And so many life is coming by nature's process, millions and millions, that is no credit. And he's trying, utopian, he'll create life by chemical combination, he's given all credit, Nobel Prize: "Oh, here is a man." This is rascaldom. So what credit you'll get. Suppose if you can manufacture a man or an animal in the laboratory, where is your credit? There are many millions and millions are coming automatically. We are trying to give credit to Krsna who is making all this creation.
Yogesvara: There is one Englishman named Aldous Huxley...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yogesvara: ...who wrote a book called "Brave New Worlds", and in that book, he predicted something that's coming true now, that there would be a process of biologically screening babies so that men could be breeded like animals, like they breed animals. So they would take one strain of chromosomes and breed a class of men who would make perfect administrators, and then they would breed another class of men that would be perfect sudras, and they would breed another class of men who would be perfect scientists.
Prabhupada: And that is already there. Guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. The, the, in Vedic astrology, jata-karma, they will say that "This child is a sudra, this child is a brahmana, this child is a ksatriya." By the birth, by the constellation of the stars, it will be done. It is already being done. And in the medical laboratory, the blood has been tested, brahmana, sudra, vaisya, there is different blood. Yes. The blood infusion. So if the, a different blood is infused, it does not act. So one doctor, in India, he was permanently keeping different bloods for different persons. So there is some meaning in the caste system. But that is not... In a brahmana family, a sudra may also take birth. Sudra blood. So to keep the blood brahminical, therefore the reformatory system is there, garbhadhana-samskara and all the samskaras. Before birth, they keep, to keep the blood brahminical, there is ceremony.
Satsvarupa: Yesterday you said when one becomes initiated by a bona fide spiritual master, his body changes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: Even if he was mleccha, he can become brahmana.
Yogesvara: Actually, the chemists also say that there are four types of blood, A, AB, O, and something like that. They give it four names.
Prabhupada: And according to Hindu system, the marriage was taking place finding, examining the girl's constitution and the boy's constitution so that there may not be disruption. Everything was there.
Yogesvara: The Vedic system is so scientific.
Prabhupada: Oh yes. That is human civilization. That is Aryan civilization. Vedic civilization means Aryan.
Yogesvara: Hitler also wanted to produce a pure breed of Aryans, but artificially. He just said anyone who is German-born, they are the pure Aryans.
Prabhupada: But so much freedom in sex, how the blood can be pure? [break]
Yogesvara: ...but Krsna-prasadam?
Prabhupada: Then he's neutral always. He's not affected by all these qualities.
Yogesvara: I guess the blood becomes purified like that. [break]
Prabhupada: I said that "You scientists, you are simply wasting time." Did I not say that, last night?
Yogesvara: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. Childish. Just imitating barking of the dog. That's all. And he wants to take credit by imitating barking the dog. And the real dog is barking -- no attention. Actually, that is the position.
Guru-gauranga: They say that if a dog bites a man, Srila Prabhupada, that's nothing special, but if a man bites a dog, that's news.
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughs) Yes. Just like the men ate some human flesh. That became news.
Yogesvara: That airplane crash.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is their business. [break] ...is when the dog barks, that is not science. When the man barks like a dog, that is science. Is that not? The man, how scientifically he has learned how to bark like a dog. This is their aim, how to imitate dog-barking. This is scientific.
Satsvarupa: On a morning walk in Los Angeles, Svarupa Damodara said they are now going to produce babies in a test tube, and you said "But that's already being done in the womb. That's a very nice test tube." He said, "But he'll get a Nobel Prize." So that's the example. Nature's already doing it nicely. [break]
Prabhupada: ...produce even a green grass like this in the laboratory, what to speak of other things.
Yogesvara: If producing life was worthy of a Nobel Prize, then they should give every mother in the world a Nobel Prize.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. (pause)
Yogesvara: Actually, I think they should give you the Nobel Prize.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yogesvara: You've been creating devotees.
Prabhupada: Oh, I, I am natural dog, and they'll not give me prize. (laughs) They'll give prize to the artificial dog.
Yogesvara: Bad imitation.
Satsvarupa: (about statues?) There is that Pan god again, imitating Krsna with a flute and standing like that.
Prabhupada: And what is this?
Yogesvara: He's naked, though.
Satsvarupa: That's some goddess of music with a harp. (pause) [break]
Prabhupada: ...brain, they have created something, but it will be used for sinful activities: drinking wine, meat-eating and sex. Not for chanting Hare Krsna. Duskrtina. They use their brain, but for sinful activities. This is duskrtina.
Pusta-krsna: There's the verse in the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gita that what is night for the materialistic man is the time of awakening for the introspective sage.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guru-gauranga: These scientists, Srila Prabhupada, they say that their research is neutral, and it is not their fault that the use of their discoveries is detrimental. Like that man yesterday, he said, "It is not my bomb."
Prabhupada: Oh, then whose bomb?
Yogesvara: Well, their point is, like, for example, Albert Einstein. His idea wasn't to create the atomic bomb, but with his theories, the government agencies had men produce the bomb. So they're saying: "Why should you blame us for all the chaos and havoc? All we're doing is simply researching nature."
Prabhupada: This is child?
Satsvarupa: He has got animal hoofs, though.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Satsvarupa: From the waist down, he's an animal. He has hoofs instead of feet.
Yogesvara: What are they called?
Satsvarupa: Centaur?
Yogesvara: Centaur, centaur.
Satsvarupa: That's in the Greek... [break]
Pusta-krsna: ...if they give up the four sinful activities, then they might be able to understand the Vedic philosophy. So does this imply...?
Prabhupada: Not Vedic philosophy. They will understand God.
Pusta-krsna: So does this mean that by their activities that they're engaging in now their incentive is that they want to enjoy these four sinful activities...? And that really they're not looking for truth? That's...
Prabhupada: They have no inquiry for truth. Animal life. As soon as there will be inquiry for the truth, that is human life.
Pusta-krsna: They will naturally perform some tapasya?
Prabhupada: Yes, then other things will follow. Athato brahma jijnasa. They do not inquire. That means animal life. As soon as there is inquiry, jijnasu, jnani jijnasu... They're not jijnasu even. Neither jnani. (pause) The path must be very old. The trees are very aged. (pause) [break]
Satsvarupa: ...yesterday said, when you said that one must be pure before he approaches God, they said, "That's spiritual pride." They said, "That is not good to say first we have to be pure. Like egoism," they said.
Prabhupada: They'll tolerate material egoism, "We are doing this humanitarian service." That they... And spiritual egoism he'll not. That I replied, that this is real egoism, aham brahmasmi. And I'm: "Aham dog asmi." (laughter) That is not very good pride. [break] Why not make one world? That I said to to that man. Why do they not do that? Everything belongs to God.
Pusta-krsna: In the Vedic times also, just a few thousand years ago, there was one monarch also, one king.
Prabhupada: Yes. And they were subordinate to him.
Guru-gauranga: But now, countries like Switzerland, they're afraid that if there is one kingdom, they will lose their standard of living.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guru-gauranga: Their nice standard of living will be lost.
Prabhupada: No, why? The standard of living should be one: plain living and God consciousness. That is the disease. Everyone wants to enjoy this material world to his best capacity. Therefore we divide. They don't want to live in Krsna consciousness. Material consciousness. Enjoyment of the senses. And that is the cause of their suffering. Only on account of this sense gratification, they're creating different mentality, and, after death, they're getting different body. That they do not know. Karanam guna-sangah asya sad-asad-janma-yonisu. One is trying to associate with the goodness, brahmana, brahmana qualification, he'll be promoted, and one who is trying to imitate, "I shall be as powerful as the tiger," he'll be degraded. It is nature's law.
Pusta-krsna: Srila Prabhupada, one person asked the other day that "You say that we have a choice, that either we can surrender to Krsna, or we can remain under the control of the external energy."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta-krsna: And his question was that those in the mode of passion and ignorance, do they have any choice?
Prabhupada: Everyone has choice. Everyone has choice. Choice, but under the control. Exactly like that. By your choice, you go to the prison house. By your choice, you go to the university. There is supreme control, government. But it is your choice, whether you want to live in the prison or in the university. that is your choice. Government does not say that "Oh, this man will come to the university, and this man will go to the prison house." No. You make your choice, you work according to that, and government sends you either to the prison or to the university. You cannot say... One man is condemned to be killed for murdering, another man is rewarded some prize, you cannot say government is partial. You have made your choice, and government is giving you the result. (pause) Once you make your choice to steal, then you are under prison house. Immediately.
Pusta-krsna: Choice to...?
Prabhupada: To steal.
Pusta-krsna: Steal.
Prabhupada: Then immediately you are under prison. It will take some time only. Just like if you infect some disease, It will take some time to manifest, but it will be manifested. Karanam guna-sangah. So in the, in the... Ordinarily, you can steal and hide yourself, but in the eyes of God, you cannot steal and hide yourself. That is not possible. You have stolen; you must suffer. (end)

 

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Fighting With This Illusion

Geneva, June 2, 1974
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Prabhupada: ...vayasa-tirtham. And the swan is considered to be the highest of the birds. Therefore it is called paramahamsa. Example is given to the hamsa. Hamsa means swan. Supreme hamsa... French artists are famous all over the world. What is that famous artist's name?Yogesvara: Claude Monet?
Bhagavan: Picasso.
Yogesvara: No, he's Spanish.
Devotee: Leonardo da Vinci.
Yogesvara: He's Italian.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is said that he was very poor man. So he painted in a fruitshop grapes.
Devotees: Cezanne.
Prabhupada: Ah. So the crows came to pick up the grapes, and the king was passing, he picked up, "Oh, who is that artist?" He became rich man in association. No, I have seen in that hall. So first-class picture. I have never seen such nice picture. Exactly life. [break]
Yogesvara: ...the book glorifying the Russian ideals, he is thrown out of the country.
Prabhupada: Just see. It is a country... People are not bad. I have seen. They are very nice. The government, the rascals, a few men, who are controlling the government, they are all rogues and thieves. The same thing in India. Everywhere mass population, they are innocent. These rascals made them..., misleading. In Russia I have seen. The mass people, they are very nice. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. They are innocent. In India also. The Pakistan happened due to these politicians. The Hindus, Muslims, they are innocent. They don't fight. These politicians engaged them to fight artificially for their political ambition. The wars also declared nowadays, on account of the rascal politicians. The people do not want it. [break] ...to the Indian railway strike, have you got any news?
Bhagavan: It ceased the other day.
Karandhara: They made some agreement with the union.
Prabhupada: Government made agreement.
Karandhara: Yeah, they made some compromise with the union.
Pusta-krsna: It seems that the government had arrested all of the union leaders, and this paralyzed the worker's appeal. So the workers finally agreed to go back. They put many thousands of union leaders into jail.
Prabhupada: It was right. [break]
Yogesvara: ...did in such a way that crops can be grown anywhere? Can crops be grown anywhere in the world?
Prabhupada: Yes. If it does not grow, then what is nature's arrangement?
Yogesvara: Well, for example, there are some parts in India that are too dry to cultivate the ground.
Prabhupada: Dry means there is no rain. If natures like, there can be profuse rain. That is nature's arrangement. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Parjanyad anna-sambhavah. Parjanyat. You must have sufficient rain. And for having sufficient rain, you must execute yajna. Yajnad bhavati parjanyah [Bg. 3.14]. So these people are now becoming rascals. They are not performing yajnas. They are opening slaughterhouse. How there will be rain? Instead of performing yajnas, they are opening big, big slaughterhouse.
Bhagavan: I think now in many parts of the world the desert is increasing.
Prabhupada: Yes, desert will increase.
Yogesvara: So under the present conditions, it's necessary to transport food. At least, for the time being, we don't have the possibility of growing food anywhere and everywhere. So some transportation of food is required.
Prabhupada: Where you get for transportation if there is no grain? If you say there is no hope of producing food grain, then where is the chance of transportation?
Yogesvara: Well, in some areas there is.
Prabhupada: In somewhere. If somewhere it is produced, then other place also it can be produced. You perform yajna, sankirtana-yajna. You will get enough food. Yajnad bhavati parjanyah, parjanyad anna-sambhavah, annad bhavanti bhutani [Bg. 3.14]. So in Switzerland there are many slaughterhouses also? Many?
Guru-gauranga: Some time ago I read in the papers that they had so much milk and so much butter that the government proposal was kill the cows.
Prabhupada: Kill all the animals. Oh, just see. They will not give to others.
Bhagavan: The farmers were complaining that their prices weren't competitive cause there was so much milk.
Prabhupada: The price is the standard, not that goods are required. They want money for purchasing wine. This is the difficulty. They are not satisfied simply by eating sufficient. They want money for woman and wine. This is their philosophy.
Bhagavan: In the United States that same problem was there, that the prices were all going up. Everything was having inflation.
Prabhupada: So if they had sense, they should have exported where there is necessity of this milk, butter, grain. Then the world will be happy.
Yogesvara: That was my question. If there is necessity for exporting, then there is necessity for maintaining ships and trains and means of communication, employing workers, electrical dynamos for running...
Prabhupada: No, point is if in one place you can produce food grains, butter and milk, why not other place? That is my point. The land is everywhere the same. If one place... Now here, in Europe and America, there is enough production because the population is less. So the whole America is bigger than India, at least four times. And the population is not even half. What is the population whole America?
Bhagavan: 200,000,000.
Prabhupada: And India?
Bhagavan: About 600,000,000.
Prabhupada: Just see. And the land is four times more than India, at least. Therefore you find excess. You see? Otherwise, India is also producing. No, India is not producing. It is not utilizing all the land.
Guru-gauranga: If the people here are so sinful, how is it that they have so many nice facilities? It will go away soon, very soon.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. As they increase their sinful activities, these facilities will be taken away. Therefore we propose that everything belongs to Krsna, and we are all sons of Krsna. Just cooperate in Krsna consciousness, then the whole world will be happy. This is our proposal. Why do you think it is American, it is Swiss, it is Indian? Everything belongs to Krsna. Let us become obedient to Krsna, and because we are sons of Krsna, let us enjoy the property of Krsna. Immediately there will be happiness. I have several times said that the, still the whole world can produce so much grains and foodstuff, ten times of the population can be fed, ten times. In Africa, in Australia, and even in America, so much, I means, prospect of producing food. But they will not cooperate. They will kill the animal. They will throw the grain to the sea, and claim, "It is my land. It is my property."
Bhagavan: Then they complain about scarcity.
Prabhupada: For money. So rascal civilization is going on. Therefore I challenged that man, "Where is your brain?" There is no brain. You remember that?
Yogesvara: From the International Labor Organization.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is no brain.
Karandhara: Prabhupada, in a recent study by U.S. Agricultural officials, they found that it is really uneconomical to eat meat. It takes so much energy and man hours to raise and transport and slaughter the cows that it makes it very wasteful.
Prabhupada: Wasteful, yes. Therefore I say they have no brain. All, they are rascals. Rascal leaders. A little labor in agriculture will be sufficient to produce the family's food stock for the whole year. You can stock. You work only three months, and you get sufficient food for your whole family. And less nine months, you chant Hare Krsna. But these rascals will not do that. They will work hard like ass simply for eating. Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti [SB 5.5.4]. They will not accept easy life.
Guru-gauranga: In that agricultural report it said that if they were to eat all the grains that they give to the cows and animals, they could get twenty times more calories than by eating meat.
Prabhupada: Yes. Wrong civilization, rascal civilization. And this is due to this rascaldom, nationalism, "This is my land." And at any moment he will be kicked out. Still, he claims, "It is my land." Aham mameti, janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This is the illusion. Nothing belongs to him; still he is fighting, "This is mine. This is mine." "I" and "mine." Identifying himself with this body, "I", and wrongly conceiving that "This is mine." This is the basic principle of wrong civilization. Both things are... Nothing belongs to him. Suppose I have come here in Switzerland. If I remain here for one month and I claim, "Oh, this is mine," what is this? So similarly, I come as guest. Everyone comes as guest in the womb of his mother and lives here for fifty years. He is claiming, "It is mine." When, when, when it became yours? The land was long, long time before your birth. How it became yours? But they have no sense. "It is mine." "Fight." "My land, my nation, my family, my society." In this way, wasting time. These things have been introduced by these western mlecchas. In the Vedic civilization there is no such thing as nationalism. You won't find. Have you seen in the Bhagavad-gita any word, "nationalism?" No such thing. This is the original ideas of the tribes. In the jungle there is... Just like in Africa there are still groups of tribes. This is most crude idea of civilization, nationalism. This is tribalized. It is nothing but development of just tribalism. And eating also the same. They are not advanced in civilization. This nationalism is another form of tribalism, that's all.
Bhagavan: They are actually just cannibals because they maintain themselves on eating the cow.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: They think it's so horrible to eat another person, but...
Prabhupada: Yes. And they are suffering. Therefore you'll find, in the recent history, every twenty-five years there is a big war, slaughter, mass slaughtering of the people. How nature will tolerate? Now India has learned, imitated the western countries. Now there is war between India and Pakistan. Otherwise there was no such thing. During two wars between the Pakistan and Hindustan, unnecessarily, without any profit, millions of people were killed.
Karandhara: Just recently India exploded an atomic bomb, and now Pakistan is hurrying to get an atomic bomb also.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is going on.
Guru-gauranga: The government promised it would be only for peaceful purposes.
Prabhupada: No, what do they know about peaceful conditions. They are all rascals. They do not know what is peaceful condition. Actually peaceful condition is described in the Bhagavad-gita,
bhoktaram yajna-tapasam
sarva-loka-mahesvaram
suhrdam sarva-bhutanam
jnatva mam santim rcchati
 [Bg. 5.29]
This is peace. Unless there is Krsna consciousness, where is the peacefulness? There cannot be. All rascaldom. Mudha. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. These rascals and fools, mayayapahrta-jnanah, lost of all knowledge -- how there can be peace? It is all useless. What is this?
Satsvarupa: Embracing. Men and women and child, too.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Yogesvara(?): Merged.
Prabhupada: Merged into one. (laughter) Brahman realization. Hare Krsna.
Bhagavan: We can turn back now.
Prabhupada: Hm. This way or that way?
Guru-gauranga: This way is all right.
Prabhupada: Very nice park.
Yogesvara: In the ancient tribal system, there was some form of religiosity. There was some form of worship of God. The so-called modern civilization doesn't even maintain that.
Prabhupada: Yes. Their developed consciousness is being used for sense gratification. That's all. They have taken up, sense gratification is the highest aim of life. Hedonism. What is that hedonism?
Karandhara: Hedonism means to eat, sleep and be merry.
Prabhupada: That's all.
Yogesvara: When I was in school, I read that when the British went to Africa to colonize, the first thing they did... In the north there was a tribe called the Ashanti tribe. And the symbol of religion was an axe. Whoever possessed that axe was a leader. So the first thing they did was to import thousands and thousands of axes and they distributed them to everyone. In this way, they destroyed the religious sentiment and then introduced their own system.
Prabhupada: Who first started this colonization? Britishers or the Spaniards?
Yogesvara: It was a Britisher.
Karandhara: Spaniards were, I think Portuguese.
Prabhupada: Portuguese. Because they had very small land.
Karandhara: They were navigators.
Prabhupada: So find out some place.
Bhagavan: The boy didn't realize the potency of your answer last night. He was asking how to fight fascism, and you were saying by chanting and dancing. So factually, by setting the example is the greatest way to fight all these maladies.
Prabhupada: Maya. Maya. Yes, we are fighting with this Mayic civilization.
Bhagavan: Because they can fight with guns, but afterwards neither one of them knows how to set an exemplary life. So they just keep fighting with guns.
Prabhupada: With gun or without, gun, you will die. The fascist will die and the other party also will die. Gun or without gun, he cannot exist. But our fight is to stop death. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. Our fight is for this purpose, no more death. This is real fight. Your, what is your fight? You may save yourself for two years or three years or ten years, but you have to die. You have no such program not to die. But here is a program, no more death.
Yogesvara: They have one program. They are freezing bodies.
Prabhupada: (laughs) That is another nonsense.
Yogesvara: Then they will defrost them in fifty or one hundred years.
Prabhupada: All future programs.
Nitai: They have never done that, have they?
Yogesvara: Well, there are people in the refrigerator now. There are people who have voluntarily put themselves in a big block of ice. They were told before they went inside that they would be defrosted in about fifty years.
Prabhupada: Then what he will do? (laughing)
Bhagavan: They should take a few out now and see if it worked.
Prabhupada: No, that can be done. The yogic process. It is called kumbhaka. Samadhi. You stop your breathing, and you can keep yourself for thousands of years. That is the kumbhaka. But this art is known by the frogs also.
Yogesvara: By the frogs?
Prabhupada: Yes. Automatically... There was news that in the coal mine all of a sudden a frog came out and it was estimated that... Because the coal is formed by the ruins. So when there was ruins, at least ten thousand years ago, during the ruins, the frog was encaged. And it formed coal. Still he was living. That means he lived at least for ten thousand years. So Brahma lives for ten millions of years. So what is the... They are also condemned. A-brahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartinah [Bg. 8.16]. Krsna says, "What is the use of going to Brahma-loka. Even if you live for millions of years, you will have to die." Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama: [Bg. 15.6] "But if you come to Me, you will never have to die." Our struggle is for that purpose. Antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam [Bg. 7.23]. for these things, those who are trying, they are less intelligent.
Bhagavan: (about passerby) He's got one arm, and he's running to keep healthy.
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughs) In the morning they begin fishing, this walking, and golfing, no engagement. These poor fellows, they have been not informed that there is better engagement. They do not know. This is their civilization. And here, Krsna conscious young men, they are chanting Hare Krsna. That is the difference. They appreciate the Krsna conscious boys. "Bright faces," they say. The priests and the common gentlemen, they say, and they inquire, "Are you American?" They see it. Come and see in our Los Angeles temple, in every temple, how these younger boys and girls are sitting so peacefully, look so nice. Is it not? A year ago, all hellish. Hellish. The same boys, the same girls. That's a fact. Just the counterpart of our society is the hippies-frustrated, all disappointed, mad. They should come forward now to cooperate with this movement. The other day one somebody came to solve the problems of the hippies.
Yogesvara: Oh, in Rome? Desmond O'Grady?
Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we suggested chant Hare Krsna, he left.
Yogesvara: The social worker.
Prabhupada: Yes,
Yogesvara: With the long hair.
Prabhupada: Ah ha. So, he did not like the idea?
Yogesvara: He didn't think it was very practical.
Guru-gauranga: He thinks it works but not all the time. He thinks it works for some people, but not for all people.
Prabhupada: And all people... Any good thing, it is meant for some people, not for all people. But if there is an ideal class of men, the others will follow. Jewel. Jewel is always costly. Still everyone aspires, "If I get a jewel." That is wanted. Not that everybody can possess jewel, but still, everybody will appreciate jewel.
Yogesvara: There are a lot of people who don't accept it because they think, "Maybe it is another imitation jewel. Maybe I'll get cheated again."
Prabhupada: So why don't you become once more cheated? You have been cheated so many times. Why not try this also? If that is his argument, that means you have been cheated so many times. So why not once more, and see whether it is cheating or reality? That sense will not come. "Oh, I have been cheated so many times. Therefore I shall not take." So why not become once more cheated and see the value? The example, as I say, sometimes. (Bengali) ...that he lost his utensils several times. The thief stole it. Therefore he promised, "Now I shall take my food on the ground. I shall not purchase any more utensils." What is...? This is bathing place or...?
Yogesvara: This is where they go water skiing.
Prabhupada: Water skiing?
Yogesvara: Yes. They stand on two pieces of wood and they hold on to a rope, and a fast boat pulls them along the water, like that.
Prabhupada: Oh. Like, what you have? Surfer? Surfer?
Karandhara: Surfing. Yeah, similar.
Prabhupada: Surfing. Surfing or suffering? (laughter) Unnecessarily, whole day and night they are... This is also another example of maya. He is actually suffering, but he's thinking, enjoying. It always remains calm and quiet? There is no waves?
Guru-gauranga: Sometimes. In the morning it's very calm.
Prabhupada: But there cannot be any big waves.
Guru-gauranga: No. Not like ocean. [break]
Bhagavan: They are importing dogs in India now, I think.
Prabhupada: Ah.
Bhagavan: European dogs.
Prabhupada: (laughing) First of all, they were importing European masters, and now they are importing dogs. Now they will have to import European brahmanas. Yes. Because in India all the brahmanas are now finished. So for their ritualistic ceremony they will have to import from Europe, America. Long ago... Long ago, not long ago, about four, five years ago, I wrote this fact. [break] ...the communists, as they making, that the state is the proprietor of everything, so what is the harm of accepting God as the proprietor of everything? What is the harm? He is giving up his own right. The state is the proprietor. So why not make "God is the proprietor"? What is the harm? And actually, God is the proprietor. Now, this lake, it is not made by the state. It is made by God. They are claiming this is Swiss lake. What is that?
Yogesvara: Geneva lake.
Prabhupada: Geneva lake. And a few steps forward, a French lake. So either to the French or Geneva, it does not belong. It belongs to God. He's a fool. Why don't you say, "God's lake"?
Yogesvara: We could propose them that they change the name, but I think they might be afraid it would drive away the tourists.
Prabhupada: Yes. Harer nama harer nama harer nama eva kevalam... [Cc. Adi 17.21]. (end)

 

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Fighting With This Illusion

Geneva, June 2, 1974
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Prabhupada: ...vayasa-tirtham. And the swan is considered to be the highest of the birds. Therefore it is called paramahamsa. Example is given to the hamsa. Hamsa means swan. Supreme hamsa... French artists are famous all over the world. What is that famous artist's name?Yogesvara: Claude Monet?
Bhagavan: Picasso.
Yogesvara: No, he's Spanish.
Devotee: Leonardo da Vinci.
Yogesvara: He's Italian.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is said that he was very poor man. So he painted in a fruitshop grapes.
Devotees: Cezanne.
Prabhupada: Ah. So the crows came to pick up the grapes, and the king was passing, he picked up, "Oh, who is that artist?" He became rich man in association. No, I have seen in that hall. So first-class picture. I have never seen such nice picture. Exactly life. [break]
Yogesvara: ...the book glorifying the Russian ideals, he is thrown out of the country.
Prabhupada: Just see. It is a country... People are not bad. I have seen. They are very nice. The government, the rascals, a few men, who are controlling the government, they are all rogues and thieves. The same thing in India. Everywhere mass population, they are innocent. These rascals made them..., misleading. In Russia I have seen. The mass people, they are very nice. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. They are innocent. In India also. The Pakistan happened due to these politicians. The Hindus, Muslims, they are innocent. They don't fight. These politicians engaged them to fight artificially for their political ambition. The wars also declared nowadays, on account of the rascal politicians. The people do not want it. [break] ...to the Indian railway strike, have you got any news?
Bhagavan: It ceased the other day.
Karandhara: They made some agreement with the union.
Prabhupada: Government made agreement.
Karandhara: Yeah, they made some compromise with the union.
Pusta-krsna: It seems that the government had arrested all of the union leaders, and this paralyzed the worker's appeal. So the workers finally agreed to go back. They put many thousands of union leaders into jail.
Prabhupada: It was right. [break]
Yogesvara: ...did in such a way that crops can be grown anywhere? Can crops be grown anywhere in the world?
Prabhupada: Yes. If it does not grow, then what is nature's arrangement?
Yogesvara: Well, for example, there are some parts in India that are too dry to cultivate the ground.
Prabhupada: Dry means there is no rain. If natures like, there can be profuse rain. That is nature's arrangement. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Parjanyad anna-sambhavah. Parjanyat. You must have sufficient rain. And for having sufficient rain, you must execute yajna. Yajnad bhavati parjanyah [Bg. 3.14]. So these people are now becoming rascals. They are not performing yajnas. They are opening slaughterhouse. How there will be rain? Instead of performing yajnas, they are opening big, big slaughterhouse.
Bhagavan: I think now in many parts of the world the desert is increasing.
Prabhupada: Yes, desert will increase.
Yogesvara: So under the present conditions, it's necessary to transport food. At least, for the time being, we don't have the possibility of growing food anywhere and everywhere. So some transportation of food is required.
Prabhupada: Where you get for transportation if there is no grain? If you say there is no hope of producing food grain, then where is the chance of transportation?
Yogesvara: Well, in some areas there is.
Prabhupada: In somewhere. If somewhere it is produced, then other place also it can be produced. You perform yajna, sankirtana-yajna. You will get enough food. Yajnad bhavati parjanyah, parjanyad anna-sambhavah, annad bhavanti bhutani [Bg. 3.14]. So in Switzerland there are many slaughterhouses also? Many?
Guru-gauranga: Some time ago I read in the papers that they had so much milk and so much butter that the government proposal was kill the cows.
Prabhupada: Kill all the animals. Oh, just see. They will not give to others.
Bhagavan: The farmers were complaining that their prices weren't competitive cause there was so much milk.
Prabhupada: The price is the standard, not that goods are required. They want money for purchasing wine. This is the difficulty. They are not satisfied simply by eating sufficient. They want money for woman and wine. This is their philosophy.
Bhagavan: In the United States that same problem was there, that the prices were all going up. Everything was having inflation.
Prabhupada: So if they had sense, they should have exported where there is necessity of this milk, butter, grain. Then the world will be happy.
Yogesvara: That was my question. If there is necessity for exporting, then there is necessity for maintaining ships and trains and means of communication, employing workers, electrical dynamos for running...
Prabhupada: No, point is if in one place you can produce food grains, butter and milk, why not other place? That is my point. The land is everywhere the same. If one place... Now here, in Europe and America, there is enough production because the population is less. So the whole America is bigger than India, at least four times. And the population is not even half. What is the population whole America?
Bhagavan: 200,000,000.
Prabhupada: And India?
Bhagavan: About 600,000,000.
Prabhupada: Just see. And the land is four times more than India, at least. Therefore you find excess. You see? Otherwise, India is also producing. No, India is not producing. It is not utilizing all the land.
Guru-gauranga: If the people here are so sinful, how is it that they have so many nice facilities? It will go away soon, very soon.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. As they increase their sinful activities, these facilities will be taken away. Therefore we propose that everything belongs to Krsna, and we are all sons of Krsna. Just cooperate in Krsna consciousness, then the whole world will be happy. This is our proposal. Why do you think it is American, it is Swiss, it is Indian? Everything belongs to Krsna. Let us become obedient to Krsna, and because we are sons of Krsna, let us enjoy the property of Krsna. Immediately there will be happiness. I have several times said that the, still the whole world can produce so much grains and foodstuff, ten times of the population can be fed, ten times. In Africa, in Australia, and even in America, so much, I means, prospect of producing food. But they will not cooperate. They will kill the animal. They will throw the grain to the sea, and claim, "It is my land. It is my property."
Bhagavan: Then they complain about scarcity.
Prabhupada: For money. So rascal civilization is going on. Therefore I challenged that man, "Where is your brain?" There is no brain. You remember that?
Yogesvara: From the International Labor Organization.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is no brain.
Karandhara: Prabhupada, in a recent study by U.S. Agricultural officials, they found that it is really uneconomical to eat meat. It takes so much energy and man hours to raise and transport and slaughter the cows that it makes it very wasteful.
Prabhupada: Wasteful, yes. Therefore I say they have no brain. All, they are rascals. Rascal leaders. A little labor in agriculture will be sufficient to produce the family's food stock for the whole year. You can stock. You work only three months, and you get sufficient food for your whole family. And less nine months, you chant Hare Krsna. But these rascals will not do that. They will work hard like ass simply for eating. Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti [SB 5.5.4]. They will not accept easy life.
Guru-gauranga: In that agricultural report it said that if they were to eat all the grains that they give to the cows and animals, they could get twenty times more calories than by eating meat.
Prabhupada: Yes. Wrong civilization, rascal civilization. And this is due to this rascaldom, nationalism, "This is my land." And at any moment he will be kicked out. Still, he claims, "It is my land." Aham mameti, janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This is the illusion. Nothing belongs to him; still he is fighting, "This is mine. This is mine." "I" and "mine." Identifying himself with this body, "I", and wrongly conceiving that "This is mine." This is the basic principle of wrong civilization. Both things are... Nothing belongs to him. Suppose I have come here in Switzerland. If I remain here for one month and I claim, "Oh, this is mine," what is this? So similarly, I come as guest. Everyone comes as guest in the womb of his mother and lives here for fifty years. He is claiming, "It is mine." When, when, when it became yours? The land was long, long time before your birth. How it became yours? But they have no sense. "It is mine." "Fight." "My land, my nation, my family, my society." In this way, wasting time. These things have been introduced by these western mlecchas. In the Vedic civilization there is no such thing as nationalism. You won't find. Have you seen in the Bhagavad-gita any word, "nationalism?" No such thing. This is the original ideas of the tribes. In the jungle there is... Just like in Africa there are still groups of tribes. This is most crude idea of civilization, nationalism. This is tribalized. It is nothing but development of just tribalism. And eating also the same. They are not advanced in civilization. This nationalism is another form of tribalism, that's all.
Bhagavan: They are actually just cannibals because they maintain themselves on eating the cow.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: They think it's so horrible to eat another person, but...
Prabhupada: Yes. And they are suffering. Therefore you'll find, in the recent history, every twenty-five years there is a big war, slaughter, mass slaughtering of the people. How nature will tolerate? Now India has learned, imitated the western countries. Now there is war between India and Pakistan. Otherwise there was no such thing. During two wars between the Pakistan and Hindustan, unnecessarily, without any profit, millions of people were killed.
Karandhara: Just recently India exploded an atomic bomb, and now Pakistan is hurrying to get an atomic bomb also.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is going on.
Guru-gauranga: The government promised it would be only for peaceful purposes.
Prabhupada: No, what do they know about peaceful conditions. They are all rascals. They do not know what is peaceful condition. Actually peaceful condition is described in the Bhagavad-gita,
bhoktaram yajna-tapasam
sarva-loka-mahesvaram
suhrdam sarva-bhutanam
jnatva mam santim rcchati
 [Bg. 5.29]
This is peace. Unless there is Krsna consciousness, where is the peacefulness? There cannot be. All rascaldom. Mudha. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. These rascals and fools, mayayapahrta-jnanah, lost of all knowledge -- how there can be peace? It is all useless. What is this?
Satsvarupa: Embracing. Men and women and child, too.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Yogesvara(?): Merged.
Prabhupada: Merged into one. (laughter) Brahman realization. Hare Krsna.
Bhagavan: We can turn back now.
Prabhupada: Hm. This way or that way?
Guru-gauranga: This way is all right.
Prabhupada: Very nice park.
Yogesvara: In the ancient tribal system, there was some form of religiosity. There was some form of worship of God. The so-called modern civilization doesn't even maintain that.
Prabhupada: Yes. Their developed consciousness is being used for sense gratification. That's all. They have taken up, sense gratification is the highest aim of life. Hedonism. What is that hedonism?
Karandhara: Hedonism means to eat, sleep and be merry.
Prabhupada: That's all.
Yogesvara: When I was in school, I read that when the British went to Africa to colonize, the first thing they did... In the north there was a tribe called the Ashanti tribe. And the symbol of religion was an axe. Whoever possessed that axe was a leader. So the first thing they did was to import thousands and thousands of axes and they distributed them to everyone. In this way, they destroyed the religious sentiment and then introduced their own system.
Prabhupada: Who first started this colonization? Britishers or the Spaniards?
Yogesvara: It was a Britisher.
Karandhara: Spaniards were, I think Portuguese.
Prabhupada: Portuguese. Because they had very small land.
Karandhara: They were navigators.
Prabhupada: So find out some place.
Bhagavan: The boy didn't realize the potency of your answer last night. He was asking how to fight fascism, and you were saying by chanting and dancing. So factually, by setting the example is the greatest way to fight all these maladies.
Prabhupada: Maya. Maya. Yes, we are fighting with this Mayic civilization.
Bhagavan: Because they can fight with guns, but afterwards neither one of them knows how to set an exemplary life. So they just keep fighting with guns.
Prabhupada: With gun or without, gun, you will die. The fascist will die and the other party also will die. Gun or without gun, he cannot exist. But our fight is to stop death. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. Our fight is for this purpose, no more death. This is real fight. Your, what is your fight? You may save yourself for two years or three years or ten years, but you have to die. You have no such program not to die. But here is a program, no more death.
Yogesvara: They have one program. They are freezing bodies.
Prabhupada: (laughs) That is another nonsense.
Yogesvara: Then they will defrost them in fifty or one hundred years.
Prabhupada: All future programs.
Nitai: They have never done that, have they?
Yogesvara: Well, there are people in the refrigerator now. There are people who have voluntarily put themselves in a big block of ice. They were told before they went inside that they would be defrosted in about fifty years.
Prabhupada: Then what he will do? (laughing)
Bhagavan: They should take a few out now and see if it worked.
Prabhupada: No, that can be done. The yogic process. It is called kumbhaka. Samadhi. You stop your breathing, and you can keep yourself for thousands of years. That is the kumbhaka. But this art is known by the frogs also.
Yogesvara: By the frogs?
Prabhupada: Yes. Automatically... There was news that in the coal mine all of a sudden a frog came out and it was estimated that... Because the coal is formed by the ruins. So when there was ruins, at least ten thousand years ago, during the ruins, the frog was encaged. And it formed coal. Still he was living. That means he lived at least for ten thousand years. So Brahma lives for ten millions of years. So what is the... They are also condemned. A-brahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartinah [Bg. 8.16]. Krsna says, "What is the use of going to Brahma-loka. Even if you live for millions of years, you will have to die." Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama: [Bg. 15.6] "But if you come to Me, you will never have to die." Our struggle is for that purpose. Antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam [Bg. 7.23]. for these things, those who are trying, they are less intelligent.
Bhagavan: (about passerby) He's got one arm, and he's running to keep healthy.
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughs) In the morning they begin fishing, this walking, and golfing, no engagement. These poor fellows, they have been not informed that there is better engagement. They do not know. This is their civilization. And here, Krsna conscious young men, they are chanting Hare Krsna. That is the difference. They appreciate the Krsna conscious boys. "Bright faces," they say. The priests and the common gentlemen, they say, and they inquire, "Are you American?" They see it. Come and see in our Los Angeles temple, in every temple, how these younger boys and girls are sitting so peacefully, look so nice. Is it not? A year ago, all hellish. Hellish. The same boys, the same girls. That's a fact. Just the counterpart of our society is the hippies-frustrated, all disappointed, mad. They should come forward now to cooperate with this movement. The other day one somebody came to solve the problems of the hippies.
Yogesvara: Oh, in Rome? Desmond O'Grady?
Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we suggested chant Hare Krsna, he left.
Yogesvara: The social worker.
Prabhupada: Yes,
Yogesvara: With the long hair.
Prabhupada: Ah ha. So, he did not like the idea?
Yogesvara: He didn't think it was very practical.
Guru-gauranga: He thinks it works but not all the time. He thinks it works for some people, but not for all people.
Prabhupada: And all people... Any good thing, it is meant for some people, not for all people. But if there is an ideal class of men, the others will follow. Jewel. Jewel is always costly. Still everyone aspires, "If I get a jewel." That is wanted. Not that everybody can possess jewel, but still, everybody will appreciate jewel.
Yogesvara: There are a lot of people who don't accept it because they think, "Maybe it is another imitation jewel. Maybe I'll get cheated again."
Prabhupada: So why don't you become once more cheated? You have been cheated so many times. Why not try this also? If that is his argument, that means you have been cheated so many times. So why not once more, and see whether it is cheating or reality? That sense will not come. "Oh, I have been cheated so many times. Therefore I shall not take." So why not become once more cheated and see the value? The example, as I say, sometimes. (Bengali) ...that he lost his utensils several times. The thief stole it. Therefore he promised, "Now I shall take my food on the ground. I shall not purchase any more utensils." What is...? This is bathing place or...?
Yogesvara: This is where they go water skiing.
Prabhupada: Water skiing?
Yogesvara: Yes. They stand on two pieces of wood and they hold on to a rope, and a fast boat pulls them along the water, like that.
Prabhupada: Oh. Like, what you have? Surfer? Surfer?
Karandhara: Surfing. Yeah, similar.
Prabhupada: Surfing. Surfing or suffering? (laughter) Unnecessarily, whole day and night they are... This is also another example of maya. He is actually suffering, but he's thinking, enjoying. It always remains calm and quiet? There is no waves?
Guru-gauranga: Sometimes. In the morning it's very calm.
Prabhupada: But there cannot be any big waves.
Guru-gauranga: No. Not like ocean. [break]
Bhagavan: They are importing dogs in India now, I think.
Prabhupada: Ah.
Bhagavan: European dogs.
Prabhupada: (laughing) First of all, they were importing European masters, and now they are importing dogs. Now they will have to import European brahmanas. Yes. Because in India all the brahmanas are now finished. So for their ritualistic ceremony they will have to import from Europe, America. Long ago... Long ago, not long ago, about four, five years ago, I wrote this fact. [break] ...the communists, as they making, that the state is the proprietor of everything, so what is the harm of accepting God as the proprietor of everything? What is the harm? He is giving up his own right. The state is the proprietor. So why not make "God is the proprietor"? What is the harm? And actually, God is the proprietor. Now, this lake, it is not made by the state. It is made by God. They are claiming this is Swiss lake. What is that?
Yogesvara: Geneva lake.
Prabhupada: Geneva lake. And a few steps forward, a French lake. So either to the French or Geneva, it does not belong. It belongs to God. He's a fool. Why don't you say, "God's lake"?
Yogesvara: We could propose them that they change the name, but I think they might be afraid it would drive away the tourists.
Prabhupada: Yes. Harer nama harer nama harer nama eva kevalam... [Cc. Adi 17.21]. (end)

 

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