Bombay, April 1, 1974
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Prabhupada: Aksara? First of all try
to understand. Aksara... Aksara means, "that does not fall down." That is
aksara. Aksara and ksara. The spiritual world is aksara, and this material world
is ksara. So the living entities or God in the spiritual world, they are all
aksara. And in the material world we are all ksara. Therefore aksaram paramam
brahma. The Supreme...Chandobhai: Svabhavo 'dhyatmam.
Prabhupada: Svabhavam.
Dr. Patel: Sva means "own."
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Bhava means...? Bhava (Gujarati)? Essence, essence.
Prabhupada: Sva-bhavah means nature.
Dr. Patel: Nature. Sva-bhavah...
Chandobhai: Adhyatmam.
Dr. Patel: Adhi-atma. That is the...
Chandobhai: That is real bhava.
Prabhupada: Adhyatma. Adhyatma means bodily and mentally.
Chandobhai: Ah, bodily and mentally, yes.
Dr. Patel: Adhyatma? Bodily and mentally?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Mentally. Spiritually... Inner existence.
Prabhupada: No. Adhyatmam. Adhyatma. Atma means body, mind and the soul, but here adhyatma means the body and the mind. That is material nature. The body and mind is made of material nature. [break] ...creation.
Chandobhai: Creation, yes.
Prabhupada: So by working with the body, we create another creation.
Dr. Patel: Bhuta-bhavodbhava...
Prabhupada: Just like now I am a human being. Next life I may be a demigod, I may be a dog. That I create. That is sarga.
Dr. Patel: That is karma.
Chandobhai: That is his karma. That is his karma.
Dr. Patel: What is karma?
Prabhupada: Karma, anyone can understand. As you... Fruitive activities. You do something and enjoy the good or bad result. That is karma. You do something, either good or bad. So the result you'll have to suffer or enjoy.
Dr. Patel: But here is a very big question. I'm very sorry to... Who does the karma? Unless and until we have got ahankara in that, then...
Prabhupada: The ahankara is there, false ahankara. You are thinking that "I am ksatriya." That is false ahankara.
Dr. Patel: That is what I said. So doer is that, ahankara is the doer.
Prabhupada: That ahankara...
Dr. Patel: Then it is karma. Not otherwise.
Prabhupada: As soon as you come to the material world, the ahankara is there, that "I... I belong to India." "I belong to America." "I belong to brahmana community, ksatriya..." The ahankara is there. Ahankara-vimudhatma. So long this ahankara is there, "I am this, I am that," all bodily concept...
Chandobhai: Ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27].
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: But this karma. Here is the question of karma.
Prabhupada: The karma... Karma means he is doing, but every, everyone is doing in his own way. Nobody, nobody cares to understand the instruction of Krsna. Everyone is doing in his own way. That is karma.
Dr. Patel: Kim karma kim akarmeti kavayo...
Prabhupada: Ah, that will be explained. Karma, akarma, yes. [break] ...the same, material. Ksara. Ksara bhavah. That is perishable.
Chandobhai: Perishable.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Purusas cadhidaivatam.
Prabhupada: Purusa. Purusa means the soul.
Chandobhai: Soul. Jiva.
Prabhupada: Yes, the jiva. Purusa adhidaivatam. Then?
Chandobhai: Adhiyajno 'ham evatra.
Prabhupada: Adhiyajnah means Paramatma.
Dr. Patel: Adhidaiva means jiva.
Prabhupada: No.
Chandobhai: No, no. Adhidaiva, purusa.
Prabhupada: Adhidaiva, jiva. Adhiyajna, Paramatma.
Dr. Patel: That is what I said.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Adhiyajna is... [break]
Prabhupada: Karma means which produces result. And akarma means which does not produce result. So that they do not know.
Chandobhai: And the vikarma.
Prabhupada: Just like these activities, devotional service, it does not produce any result. And the ordinary man... Suppose they are also selling books. An ordinary man also selling books. It appears to be the same. But they are not creating any result. But ordinary bookseller, he's creating his result, papa-punya. That is karma and akarma. And vikarma. Vikarma means against the...
Chandobhai: Vikrta karma.
Prabhupada: Yes, vikrta.
Chandobhai: Vikrta, against sastra.
Dr. Patel: Although the actions which are prohibitory...
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Dr. Patel: ...and if we do it, it is vikarma.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Adhiyajno 'ham evatra dehe deha-bhrtam vara. Isvara, isvara.
Prabhupada: Isvara.
Dr. Patel: That means isvarah sarva-bhutanam... [Bg. 18.61]. [break]
Prabhupada: ...important thing, mam, Krsna. They practice it, always remembering Krsna. Then at the end of life, ante narayana-smrti. That is perfection of life. But how one will remember, ante, then? There is a verse of... Just wait.
Chandobhai: Yam yam vapi smaran... [Bg. 8.6].
Prabhupada: No. Just wait. There is a verse by Kulasekhara. Kulasekhara. Adyaiva visatu me manasa-raja-hamsah. He says. He says, "My Lord..." The idea is that "Now I am in quite fit order. So let me remember You and die. Because at the end of... At the end of... Kapha-pitta-vayu, there will be disorder. Smaranam kutas te [MM 33]. At that time, it is..."
Dr. Patel: How can there be the smaran?
Prabhupada: Yes. "Therefore, my Lord, I pray that adyaiva, immediately, because now I am fit."
Dr. Patel: Right now.
Prabhupada: Right now. "Now I am fit. So let me remember You and die." So one must be fit. You see, even in daily, in dream, while sleeping, we forget so many things. Everything we forget.
Chandobhai: Yes.
Prabhupada: So at the time of death, when everything is disordered, nothing is in order, unless one is very strongly practiced, how he can remember?
Dr. Patel: My father spoke, "Om," and he stopped breathing and...
Prabhupada: That's nice. Om, om ity eka... That is...
Dr. Patel: Then he stopped breathing.
Prabhupada: That means he practiced. Therefore, either you practice Om or Hare Krsna, that is all right.
Dr. Patel: Whatever we do of our whole, all our whole, all day of life, it comes at the end. That is why you must continue to do for the life.
Prabhupada: Twenty-four hours. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. Always Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Hare Krsna... In this way practicing, if somebody is fortunate enough, he can remember.
Dr. Patel: Esa brahmi sthitih partha na... Sthitva samanta-kale 'pi brahma-nirvanam rcchati.
Prabhupada: So...
Dr. Patel: Therefore at the last moment you... But you can't get that last moment in this position because you have, whole life, you have...
Prabhupada: Yes, you have spoiled your life simply in material activities. How you can remember?
Dr. Patel: But even if you are doing material activities by your body, and by your mental activities you are bhaja krsna...
Prabhupada: But you are under the body... Prakrteh kriyamanani [Bg. 3.27]. Body and mind is working... Unless you practice to be above body and mind... That is bhakti-yoga. Mam cavyabhicarini-bhakti-yoga..., sa gunan samatitya. You cannot expect that you go on doing all these material activities and at the time of death you'll remember Krsna. That is not possible.
Dr. Patel: That can't be done.
Prabhupada: That is not possible.
Chandobhai: Should be a real concentrated difference
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: When you do the work, you should be a real concentration.
Prabhupada: That is not possible.
Chandobhai: Therefore there is no... Because your attachment is more to the...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: ...reserves of that...
Prabhupada: Vita-raga-bhaya-krodha man-maya... [Bg. 4.10].
Chandobhai: Mad-bhaktah.
Prabhupada: Man-maya mad-asritah. Unless he takes shelter of Krsna, these things are not possible. Simply by talking it is not possible. There must be practice.
Chandobhai: Acaropanam.(?)
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit)
Chandobhai: Yam yam vapi smaram bhavam tyajanty ante... [break]
Prabhupada: There is a risk. Yam yam vapi. If you are thinking of dog, then you become a dog.
Dr. Patel: Just as Bharata did it.
Prabhupada: Yes. yes, that is example. Even Bharata Maharaja, such a great personality, simply due to little affection to a cub of deer, he became a deer. So these people are attached to so many things. So how much risk is there at the time of death they do not understand. Therefore Krsna says, mam ekam.
Chandobhai: Tasmat sarvesu kalesu mam eva... [Bg. 8.7].
Prabhupada: Mam ekam: Then you...
Dr. Patel: Therefore every time, every moment...
Prabhupada: That is... This is stressed. If you...
Dr. Patel: Mam smarata yudhya ca.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yudhya means "do your activity."
Prabhupada: Yes. But always think. Just like these people are, these, they are doing that. They are doing their duty. Somebody's going to there, somebody's going there, somebody's there... But their chanting is there. That is not avoided. That is not avoided. Sada tad bhava-bhavitah [Bg. 8.6]. Then Krsna favors, "Yes, he has done his best."
Chandobhai: Tasmat sarvesu kalesu... [Bg. 8.7].
Prabhupada: Ah!
Dr. Patel: Yudhya ca. Yudhya ca.
Chandobhai: Mayy arpita-mano buddhir mam evaisyasy asamsayah [Bg. 8.7].
Prabhupada: Ah! Asamsayah. Because his mind is in Krsna, it doesn't matter he's fighting. Fighting is superfluous. Real thing is mind is in Krsna.
Dr. Patel: That is bhramara-nyaya.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Bhramara-nyaya. Because the small ant... [break]
Chandobhai: ...nanya-gamina.
Dr. Patel: Abhyasa-yoga, by... We explained that...
Prabhupada: One... Abhyasa-yoga... You practice this. Therefore we say, "You must chant at least sixteen rounds." This is abhyasa-yoga. When one becomes attached to chanting, he doesn't require to be under discipline. But so long he's not practiced, he must be under... Just like a boy. He's instructed by the teacher, "You must give me at least four pages handwriting." So four pages handwriting means writing, writing, he'll be practiced. So therefore these are the practice. You must...
Chandobhai: Nanya-gamina.
Prabhupada: Nanya-gamina. Because cetah, mind is very flickering. So unless you fix up your mind under some regulative principles, then it is not possible. (indistinct) Everyone becomes paramahamsa: "Oh, I am now advanced. I do not require all these regulative principles."
Dr. Patel: What is paramahamsa?
Prabhupada: Paramahamsa means he's above. Paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. That is paramahamsa.
Chandobhai: Paramam purusam divyam yati parthanucintayan.
Prabhupada: Yes. Paramam purusam divyam yati.
Dr. Patel: Parthanucintayan. By thinking about... [break]
Prabhupada: Smartavyah satato visnuh. Therefore one has to think of Visnu always, twenty-four hours, in so many ways.
Chandobhai: Kavim puranam anusasitaram.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Anor aniyan anusmared yah, sarvasya dhataram acintya-rupam...
Prabhupada: This is the description of the param.
Chandobhai: Aditya-varnam tamasah parastat. Prayana-kale manasacalena...
Prabhupada: [break] ...varna. That is... Aditya-varna means self-effulgent. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. That is aditya-varna. Aditya is never in darkness.
Chandobhai: Prayana-kale manasacalena...
Dr. Patel: Prayana-kale manasacalena. Acalena.
Prabhupada: Again... Acalena. Acalena means he has been practiced to fix his mind to Krsna. Then, if he's successful, the prayana-kale, he must remember.
Chandobhai: Yes, yes. Here. Bhaktya yukto yoga-balena caiva.
Prabhupada: Yoga. Bhaktya. That is the bhakti-yoga. Not otherwise.
Chandobhai: Bhruvor madhye pranam avesya samyak.
Prabhupada: Ah. Hare Krsna. [break] ...they meditate all the life, the so-called yogis. Something impersonal... Some light, like this, like that. Light may be also, if that Brahman light. But here it is specifically mentioned...
Dr. Patel: Especially spontaneously you feel some light...
Prabhupada: That's all right, Brahma-light. But the Brahma-light, according to Bhagavata philosophy, even one enters in the Brahman effulgence, still he falls down. Still he falls down. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah anadhrta-yusmad-anghrayah [SB 10.2.32]. Unless one is fixed up in the personal form of the Lord, there is chance of falling down. They fall down actually. We have seen so many sannyasis. Just like at the present moment, Korpatali(?). He's now busy in politics.
Dr. Patel: One man married in America, some sannyasi.
Chandobhai: Citrabhanu, Citrabhanu.
Dr. Patel: Citrabhanu, or... [break]
Prabhupada: ...one is God.
Bhagavata: Citrabhanu.
Chandobhai: Citrabhanu, yes.
Bhagavata: Brahmananda Swami met him in Mombassa, Srila Prabhupada, and he was speaking all this nonsense. Then he went to America... [break]
Chandobhai: ...icchanto brahmacaryam caranti.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Tat te padam sangrahena pravaksye. Now He will tell us in sangraha...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: ...that padam.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: That is Goloka dhama.
Prabhupada: That is Krsna. Yes. Yad aksaram veda-vido vadanti. That means impersonal. Veda-vido. One who knows Vedas.
Chandobhai: Visanti yad yatayo vita-ragah.
Prabhupada: Then?
Chandobhai: You see, now He tells all the practice of the yoga.
sarva-dvarani samyamya
mano hrdi-nirudhya ca
murdhny adhayatmanah pranam
asthito yoga-dharanam
Prabhupada: Yes, that's... Artificially you cannot samyama. If your mind is not fixed-up, artificially you cannot make. Therefore Krsna says, yoginam api sarvesam mad gata... [Bg. 6.47]. One who is thinking of Krsna, he is perfect yogi.
Chandobhai: But he has to be yogi at that time, isn't it?
Prabhupada: Yes. Sarva-dvarani samyamya. Just like these boys, they do not go to see cinema, they do not go to restaurant. This is sarva-dvarani samyamya. You see? They do not go to anywhere except in the temple. They do not talk anything nonsense, except Krsna. This is sarva-dvarani samyamya.
Dr. Patel: They should not talk anything else except Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. Vacamsi vaikuntha-gunanuvarnane. So this is sam... Unless you give engagement to the senses, proper, how you can control it? Your eyes want to see beautiful of man or woman. (aside:) Hare Krsna. But when you are captivated by seeing the Deity of Krsna and Radha, then that eyes being engaged otherwise is stopped. That has been explained by Prabhodananda Sarasvati. Durdantendriya-kala-sarpa-
Dr. Patel: What do you call?
Prabhupada: Kala, kala-sarpa means the dead(ly) poisonous snake, kala-sarpa-patali. Everyone knows. As soon as you use some indriya, there is some dangerous result. Trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duhkha-bhajah [SB 7.9.45]. Take for... [break]
Dr. Patel: Om is God.
Prabhupada: Om, yes. Krsna says, pranavah sarva-vedesu. Pranavah sarva-vedesu.
Chandobhai: That is om in that way.
Prabhupada: Because om means Krsna. That is mam.
Dr. Patel: I told you.
Prabhupada: When one chanting om, if he remembers just the om is Krsna, then he's successful. Mam. Om ity ekaksaram...
Chandobhai: Om ity ekaksaram brahma.
Dr. Patel: It is ekaksara Brahman.
Chandobhai: Vyaharan mam.
Prabhupada: Vyaharan mam. If he knows...
Dr. Patel: Vyaharan mam anusmara [Bg. 8.7].
Prabhupada: Anusmara. If he knows that omkara is Krsna, then he's successful. If he thinks that omkara is something else than Krsna, then he's not successful.
Chandobhai:
ananya-cetah satatam
yo mam smarati nityasah
tasyaham sulabhah partha
nitya-yuktasya yoginah
[Bg. 8.14]
Prabhupada: So there is no need of doing this or that. Simply always remember Krsna. That is the conclusion.
Chandobhai:
mam upetya punar janma
duhkhalayam asasvatam
napnuvanti mahatmanah
samsiddhim paramam gatah
[Bg. 8.15]
Prabhupada: That is samsiddhi. They are mahatmas, those who are always remembering Krsna. They are mahatmas. Not by the red dress. No, that is not mahatma. Even in white dress you can become. If you always chant and remember Krsna, you become mahatma.
Chandobhai: Now there is a higher philosophy: a-brahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16], mam upetya punar janma... [Bg. 8.15]. No?
Dr. Patel: Mam eti janardana.
Prabhupada: No.
Chandobhai: Mam evaiti kaunteya punar janma na vidyate.
Prabhupada: A-brahma-bhuvanal lokah... Within this material world, these persons who are doing pious activities, they are promoted to the higher planetary systems. But even if you go to the Brahmaloka -- that is the highest -- where you can get millions of years, your life duration, but still, ksine punye martya-lokam visanti [Bg. 9.21], you have to come back.
Chandobhai: Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmano viduh [Bg. 8.17], ratrim...
Prabhupada: Now He explaining what is Brahmaloka. That one day of Brahma, you cannot calculate. And still, you have to die.
Dr. Patel: Twelve hundred yugas is called one Brahma.
Chandobhai: So our hundred years is nothing for...
Prabhupada: It is nothing.
Chandobhai: It is a moment only.
Dr. Patel: Twelve hundred yugas.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Not twelve hundred yugas. One thousand yugas. One thousand. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmano viduh [Bg. 8.17].
Dr. Patel: Sahasra-yuga means four yugas, (Hindi) like that...
Prabhupada: That... Four yugas multiplied by one thousand.
Dr. Patel: By one thousand.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Four thousand.
Prabhupada: So four yuga means forty-three lakhs of years. Now, add three zeroes. Forty-three lakhs of years, add three zeroes. Then how many?
Dr. Patel: About four, about... Car...
Prabhupada: Eh? Forty-three lakhs, as...
Dr. Patel: Car ardha...
Prabhupada: Forty-three, eight zeroes.
Dr. Patel: Car... (Gujarati)
Prabhupada: This is Brahma's twelve days, uh, twelve hours.
Dr. Patel: Ratri, (Gujarati)
Chandobhai: Why not... There's a little question to ask: What are the Pitrloka, Martyaloka and this...?
Prabhupada: They are planets.
Chandobhai: And the Brahmaloka and all the...?
Prabhupada: Yes. They are different... Just like Candraloka, Suryaloka, Vayuloka.
Chandobhai: What is that Pitrloka actually?
Prabhupada: Pitrloka means the... There is a, called a Pitrloka.
Chandobhai: But then in the Pitrloka is it may be that, there may be remembrances of the charity, activities, and all these things or...
Prabhupada: No, these are all material.
Dr. Patel: Pitrloka (Gujarati) They are all your past pitrs.
Chandobhai: No, let us hear from him.
Prabhupada: Pitrn yanti... Devan yanti... What is that? Deva... Pitrn yanti pitr-vratah. So those who are just like fond of performing sraddhas, karma-kanda, they go to the Pitrloka.
Dr. Patel: These are all, I mean, ordained to perform sraddha, all Vaisnavas.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, Vaisnavas do not do so.
Dr. Patel: We are... We, all are, all of us, are we not doing...
Prabhupada: No.
Dr. Patel: Sraddha ceremony...
Prabhupada: The Vaisnava, Vaisnava has no duty except serving Krsna. That's all.
Dr. Patel: That's right. But a Vaisnava family...
Prabhupada: No.
Chandobhai: Grhasthas, grhasthas.
Dr. Patel: Grhasthas.
Prabhupada: He, whatever he may be. That is stated, that is stated that...
Dr. Patel: Only Jains can do.
Prabhupada: That is stated that pitrnam. No, what is that verse? Devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam-pitrnam [SB 11.5.41]. We are... Just like we are indebted to our forefathers, family, similarly we are indebted to devas, the demigods. Just like the sun is supplying light. So we are indebted. Deva, rsi, to the great, big, big, saintly rsis. They have given us the sastras. Devarsi, devarsi bhuta... Bhuta, ordinary living entities. Just like you are taking milk from the cows. And another, horse, is giving me service. So devarsi-bhuta apta, relatives. We take so much help from relatives. Devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam, ordinary human beings. Pitrnam. And the pitrs. So we are debted to so many. If you want to clear up the debts, it will take millions of births. (laughter) So devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam-pitrnam nayam kinkara na rni ca rajan [SB 11.5.41]. This man is neither servant nor indebted. Who? Sarvatmana yah saranam mukundam. One who has taken... That Krsna says, that "You just surrender unto Me. I will protect you." So if he does not do anything else... One may think that he is being entangled in sinful activities because he does not do other duties. But Krsna says, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami [Bg. 18.66]. So one who has taken shelter, full shelter unto Krsna, he doesn't require to do any so-called social, political and other duties. He doesn't require.
Dr. Patel: And here He means... He's about those pralaya. Bhuta-gramah sa evayam bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19].
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Ratry-agame avasah partha prabhavaty ahar-agame.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. When we...
Dr. Patel: Paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah.. [Bg. 8.20].,
Prabhupada: That is the spiritual world. That is the spiritual...
Dr. Patel: Yah sa sarvesu bhutesu nasyatsu na vinasyati. That is purna brahma.
Prabhupada: That is spiritual world. That is spiritual world, beyond this material world. So they have no information what is that spiritual world. Therefore it is said that... Here it is going on, pralaya, anya pralaya. During Brahma's night, there is dissolution. Again creation. And when Brahma dies, there is another dissolution. That is going on. But paras tasmat, above this creation and dissolution, there is another nature. That is sanatana. That is eternal.
Dr. Patel: Yah sa sarvesu bhutesu nasyatsu na vinasyati.
Prabhupada: Ah, so why the...
Dr. Patel: Avyakto 'ksara ity uktas tam ahuh paramam gatim [Bg. 8.21].
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yam prapya na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama.
Prabhupada: Paramam mama. Now, again, He's come to mama. "That dhama is mama, Mine."
Dr. Patel: Purusah sa parah partha...
Prabhupada: And that mama...
Dr. Patel: ...bhaktya labhyas tv ananyaya.
Prabhupada: Yes. Bhaktya labhya ananyaya. Not ordinarily.
Dr. Patel: Purusa...
Prabhupada: Ananya bhaktya.
Dr. Patel: Sir, I am repeating. Purusah sa parah partha bhaktya labhyas tv anyaya.
Prabhupada: That, the predominating Deity in that sanatana world, spiritual world, is purusa, a person. Purusa, a person. And He is achieved-bhaktya ananya. Not by mix. Mixing this, mixing that. "This is also good. This is also good." No. He cannot. Bhaktya ananyaya.
Dr. Patel: Yasyantah-sthani bhutani
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yena sarvam idam tatam.
Prabhupada: Tatam. That Purusa is spread all over.
Chandobhai: But He's not Krsna. He is Krsna also.
Prabhupada: Yes, He is Krsna.
Chandobhai: Yasyantah-sthani bhutani.
Prabhupada: All Vaikuntha-pati, Narayana, Narayana.
Dr. Patel: Just as (indistinct) saw a whole world within the mouth of Bala Mukunda.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Within the body of Bala Mukunda.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yasyantah-sthani bhutani yena sarvam idam tatam.
yatra kale tv anavrttim
avrttim caiva yoginah
prayata yanti tam kalam
vaksyami bharatarsabha
That is the...
Prabhupada: This is material calculation.
Dr. Patel: Agnir jyotir ahah suklah san-masa uttarayanam...
Prabhupada: Then he assures, assures Arjuna that "You are assured. Your coming to Me is assured."
Dr. Patel: (Gujarati)
dhumo ratris tatha krsnah
san-masa daksinayanam
tatra candramasam jyotir
yogi prapya nivartate
Prabhupada: This is material calculation.
Dr. Patel:
sukla-krsne gati hy ete
jagatah sasvate mate
ekaya yaty anavrttim
anyayavartate punah
naite srti partha janan
yogi muhyati kascana
That is... Now you come.
naite srti partha janan
yogi muhyati kascana
tasmat sarvesu kalesu
yoga-yukto bhavarjuna
[Bg. 8.7]
Prabhupada: Yes. This is the position. Sarvesu kalesu. Not that sometimes here and sometimes there. That will take long time, but unless one comes to sarvesu kalesu, always thinking of Krsna...
Dr. Patel: Vedesu yajnesu tapahsu caiva danesu yat-punya-phalam pradistam...
Prabhupada: Satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drdha-vratah [Bg. 9.14]. That is required.
Dr. Patel: Yajnesu.
vedesu yajnesu tapahsu caiva
danesu yat-punya-phalam pradistam
atyeti tat sarvam idam viditva
yogi param sthanam upaiti cadyam
Prabhupada: Yes. So if one understands that all these pious activities, charity, performance of sacrifices, and so many other things, only by Krsna bhakti can be achieved, then he's assured.
Dr. Patel: This is the last verse.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...yuktena. Now just this woman is carrying a load on her head, how she's keeping balance. He cannot do that.
Dr. Patel: That is Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said. No, no, that is not Indira Gandhi. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said the same thing as you say...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...that she should remain...
Prabhupada: It is not Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. This is sastric.
Dr. Patel: While we're talking about all these things, but the mind is in the load there. Their mind is on the load.
Prabhupada: So... [break] ...by abhyasa yoga-yuktena [Bg. 8.8], everything can be done.
Bhagavata: Prabhupada, can you tell us maybe something about Lord Ramacandra's activities, today being Rama-naumi.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now, you can, some of you can speak about Lord Ramacandra. No? Dr. Patel, you can speak something about...
Dr. Patel: About what?
Bhagavata: Lord Ramacandra's activities.
Prabhupada: [break] ...taran niyamena tisthan. [break] God is not obliged to accept your direction. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: He'll not oblige the brahmanas unfortunately. He'll oblige only the ksatriyas. I don't know why.
Prabhupada: Because he comes: paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. That is ksatriya's business. Sadhu protection (Hindi). This is ksatriya's business. God has got two business. Paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam. If you want to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gita, it is difficult. (laughs) It is not possible. He says that "I have got two business: paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam, dharma-samsthapanarthaya..." Unless these two things are there, there cannot be establishment of real law and order. [break] ...everywhere, law and order. In spiritual also. Unless there is law and order, it is chaos. Law and order must be there.
Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the civilization.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the proper civilization. Before, when... [break]
Prabhupada: ...right civilization begins when the society is organized. Otherwise, it's cats' and dogs' civilization. That is not civilization. Unless... Varnasramacaravata purusena parah puman [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. The society becomes perfect when the members of the society can understand that this human body is meant for satisfying Visnu. That is the beginning of organized society. So long they do not know that, that is animal society. Because the animals, they do not know that.
Dr. Patel: Shall we go back?
Prabhupada: Yes. The animals, they do not know. [break] They do not know it, that "We have to satisfy the Supreme Visnu." So unless the society comes to this consciousness that "We have to satisfy the Supreme," that is not human society. Now, how they will understand? Therefore four divisions.
Dr. Patel: Guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13].
Prabhupada: Guna... Yes. So if the four divisions work nicely, then it is healthy society. Otherwise it is not. If different parts of your body work nicely, then you are healthy.
Dr. Patel: Each section of the society has to, I mean, work as a...
Prabhupada: For the maintenance.
Dr. Patel: ...part of the whole.
Prabhupada: Whole, yes. That doesn't matter whether you are sudra or brahmana. Your aim should be how to develop Krsna consciousness. Then it is perfect.
ya imam purusam saksad
atma-prabhavam isvaram
na bhajanty abhijananti
sthanad bhrastah patanty adhah
Dr. Patel: They fall down from their own position.
Prabhupada: Yes. It doesn't matter whether a brahmana, ksatriya, or vaisya, sudra. If you are conscious that "I have to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to my capacity of work," then he'll not fall down. He'll not fall down. [break] ...fall down from the position, then it is dead society. It is not living society. At the present moment. Yes. If you don't find actual brahmana, don't find actual ksatriya, don't find actual vaisya, so all sudras. And there is no guide. Therefore chaotic condition. [break] ...ship without rudder? What is called? Yes. They do not know what is the aim of life. Ask any leader. The leader, he says, "No, this aim of life is to drink and enjoy. That's all." This is going on. After diplomacy, politics, when they are tired, they go to the hotel or club and enjoy and drink. That's all. This is their aim of life. [break] ...countries there are even shops, they indulge all these things, topless, bottomless, like that. Because that is the only solace to this materialistic life. There is no other. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. That is their... They have no other pleasure except that sex life. They have no information that there is another pleasure. That, they, they are not educated. So they must come to the sex life only.
Dr. Patel: I think this has become very wild after the Second World War.
Prabhupada: No, no. It is always there. It is always there. That is material world. Material world means that, sex life. That's all. And if you increase it, then you increase your material life more and more. Therefore the process is tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. The brahmacarya is so much stressed. Tapasa brahmacaryena. Samena damena va, tyagena saucena yamena niyamena va. This is the process of human life. Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]. This human body is not meant for working hard like pigs for sense gratification. So they have been taught to become pigs. No discrimination of sex. The pig has no discrimination. So they have been taught. Not... When it is in sastra, that means it is from the very beginning. A class of men are like pigs and hogs there are, always. So therefore Rsabhadeva is forbidding his sons that "This human form of life is not to waste like the pigs and hogs." Then what? Tapasa. Tapo divyam putrakah...
Dr. Patel: Rsabhadeva's hundred sons.
Prabhupada: Eh? Yes. Tapo divyam putrakah [SB 5.5.1].
Dr. Patel: Eighty-one sons. Eighty-one sons.
Prabhupada: Jaya. It is... Human life is meant for tapasya, but where is tapasya? They are simply teaching, "Yes, here is contraceptive method. Take." No,... Wine shop...
Dr. Patel: They give it free of charge in the...
Prabhupada: Yes. So there is no question of tapasya now. Therefore the whole population is pigs, hogs and dogs. How you can expect peace and prosperity in this society? That is not possible. It is a society of pigs and hogs. Sva-vid... Sva-vid-varaha ustra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh. If somebody says, "If the..., it is a society of pigs and hogs, then what about these leaders?"
Dr. Patel: They are bigger hogs and pigs.
Prabhupada: Yes. That's all. That is stated: sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh [SB 2.3.19]. He's also a big pasuh. That's all. Otherwise how he can dare to see that "Bhajan is nuisance"? Because it is pasuh. He's not even a human being. Otherwise how he dares say like that? [break] ...reply that dacoit. If I reply, then I have to call him, "You are a pasuh."
Dr. Patel: And he told me...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...Giriraja, that he wants to reply separately.
Prabhupada: [break] ...why...
Dr. Patel: His confidence.(?)
Prabhupada: No. Their reply is murkhasya latosadhih.
Dr. Patel: [break] ...margam?
Prabhupada: Murkhasya latosadhih. It is very... [break] ...from this movement.
Dr. Patel: I have not read that letter.
Prabhupada: No.
Dr. Patel: Which way it has come?
Prabhupada: [break] ...barking, what is the use of arguing with him?
Dr. Patel: No, we have not read. I don't know how it came to our...
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...talking of this letter of commissioner.
Dr. Patel: Oh, commissioner. [break]
Prabhupada: They, because today's Rama Naumi, they're taking bath?
Dr. Patel: Yes, they are taking bath. [break]
Prabhupada: ...says that "Why don't you go to the forest?"
Dr. Patel: But that somebody must have told you.
Prabhupada: No, no. One of the important men. What is the name of that...?
Giriraja: Yogendrabhai.
Prabhupada: Yogendra. Yes. He's Yogendra. Yogi.
Dr. Patel: Yogendra Patel.
Prabhupada: Yes. Here is the sample of yogi. Krsna says, imam rajarsayo viduh. Imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. And a yogi says that "Go to the forest." Eh? The rajarsis are in the forest?
Dr. Patel: This is a mudha. [break]
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] ...garland, this girl. Garland just like beads.
Satsvarupa: Make a garland out of stone?
Prabhupada: Yes. Not stone.
Satsvarupa: Shells.
Prabhupada: They are conch shells, small conchshells. They are called gunja, gunja. They are called gunja? [break]
Guest (4) (Indian man): ...aham yogi nikita.(?) So what is that? Can you give me some light on that?
Prabhupada: Karma-yogi means one who does everything for Krsna. He's karma-yogi.
Guest (1): One who does everything for...?
Prabhupada: For Krsna.
Guest (1): For Krsna.
Prabhupada: Just like you are doing, doing some work. For whom you are doing?
Guest (1): For my own benefit.
Prabhupada: That's all. So that is karma. But when you do the same thing for Krsna, that is karma-yoga.
Guest (1): But (Hindi), if you do it for others, for Krsna, for Krsna's...
Prabhupada: Others... Others means... That is also a humbug. You cannot do anything for others. You do everything for yourself. That is a false propaganda. You see? That is humbugism. So either you can do for yourself or for Krsna. That's all.
Guest (1): I see. (Gujarati)
Prabhupada: [break] ...become a slogan nowadays. Nobody does for others. "For others," "For the poor," these are all humbug.
Guest (1): You think people are doing something hospitals, that is for others?
Prabhupada: Yes. That is also punya-karma.
Guest (1): (Hindi) Helping these temples, hospitals...?
Prabhupada: Yes. Temple construction is different from hospital construction. That is for Krsna.
Guest (1): But suppose somebody's doing hospitals. Is it not for others?
Prabhupada: Yes. But how many you can give shelter? A few. There are so many suffering people. You cannot provide hospitals for all of them. The hospitals are increasing, and the disease also increasing.
Guest (1): No, as you say that doing for others is humbug.
Prabhupada: No, no. Humbug means he cannot do it.
Guest (1): Accha.
Prabhupada: He cannot do it. He can do to his satisfaction only. That is... That is also for his satisfaction.
Guest (1): I see.
Prabhupada: Because by opening hospital, you cannot stop disease. That is not possible. Then what you are doing for the others? That is for your satisfaction. Try to understand. Because you cannot do anything, but still, you are wasting your time. That is for your satisfaction.
Guest (1): Naturally for myself.
Prabhupada: Yes. Hare Krsna. You cannot do anything. The hospitals are increasing, beds are increasing, and the diseases are increasing. Then what can you do?
Guest (1): We can do our own satisfaction.
Prabhupada: That's all. [break] ...done not meant for Krsna, that is for his own satisfaction. Just like Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent: "No, no, Krsna. I cannot kill my kinsmen." That is a good proposal. But that was his satisfaction.
Guest (1): That is very correct.
Prabhupada: Yes. That was his satisfaction. But Krsna wanted that "You must fight." And when he agreed to that, that is his perfection. Before that, he was trying to satisfy he.
Guest (1): Yes. When he surrendered to Krsna, that was his...
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the only purpose of life. Anything that is done, that is useless waste of time. Therefore Krsna particularly said, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vra... [Bg. 18.66]. That is ekam. You try to satisfy Krsna only. That will give you perfection. Otherwise your own satisfaction, that's all.
Guest (1): Yes, very correct, very correct.
Prabhupada: Whatever you do, that is your satisfaction. That is karma.
Guest (1): But not yogi.
Prabhupada: No, karma. [break] ...for your own sense satisfaction, that is karma. And if you do it for Krsna's satisfaction, that is karma-yoga.
Makhanlal: Pure bhakti and karma-yoga considered to be exactly the same?
Prabhupada: Exactly the same.
Prabhupada: Pure bhakti is above karma-yoga. Pure bhakti is above karma-yoga.
Bhagavata: That is the difference between the Chapter Karma-yoga and Karma-yoga in Krsna Consciousness.
Prabhupada: Yes. Pure, pure devotion means Sravanam kirtanam.
Guest (1): I read fifteen percent power cut from today in the state. They have not able to do the service in electric. [break]
Prabhupada: ...cut, cent percent. [break]
Makhanlal: ...you're performing, is the vaidhi-bhakti stage of...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Makhanlal: ...of the sadhana-bhakti, the regulative principles.
Prabhupada: Yes, vaidhi-bhakti means regulative principles, and when you are accustomed, automatically you perform, that is raga-bhakti.
Makhanlal: So vaidhi-bhakti is considered superior to karma-yoga then.
Prabhupada: No. Karma-yoga is better.
Makhanlal: Karma-yoga is better?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian man: Pure bhakti is superior.
Prabhupada: Pure bhakti is sravanam kirtanam. Sravanam kirtanam visnu-smaranam pada-sevanam, that is pure bhakti. [break]
Yasomatinandana: ...formed by anybody.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Karma-yoga.
Prabhupada: Unless one is inclined to take to devotion, it is not possible to take to karma-yoga. Who can sacrifice the profit?
Yasomatinandana: Does karma-yoga mean to follow exactly the sastras?
Prabhupada: Karma-yoga means yat karosi yaj juhosi kurusva tat mad-arpanam.
Yasomatinandana: Doing only for Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is karma-yoga.
Devotee: Which means?
Prabhupada: "Whatever you do, the result give Me."
Devotee: To Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yasomatinandana: So we are also, those who are on the vaidhi-bhakti (indistinct) on karma-yoga path because we are...
Prabhupada: Yes. They are acting under the order of the spiritual master. That is bhakti-yoga.
Bhagavata: So when one follows the nine activities of devotion purely, that is pure bhakti.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavata: Then when he's following those nine activities, then he's superior.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Bhagavata: Then that's superior to karma-yoga, to follow those nine principles purely.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Makhanlal: Raganuga-bhakti is also superior to karma-yoga then?
Prabhupada: Bhakti is perfect stage. That is not for ordinary man.
Yasomatinandana: What is the difference between karma-yoga and... or bhakti because they also (indistinct) Krsna?
Prabhupada: Now go on doing your duty, you'll understand (indistinct). Don't try to understand in one day.
Bhagavata: It will be revealed to us as we act.
Prabhupada: Yes, the more you become in service attitude, things will be revealed to you. (Sanskrit) prakasante. Becomes, it becomes manifest. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau sam eva sphuraty adhah [Brs. 1.2.234]. [break] ...answers.
Dr. Patel: What I will say now... I will make one man sit between the two, Vaisnavas.
Prabhupada: You know what the paramahamsas do?
Guests: It is mixed up.
Dr. Patel: It is what I give to that man. Mix up, then it is far better.
Prabhupada: So they are all paramahamsas.
Dr. Patel: Then let them miss. We don't mind. But they don't miss that door(?).
Guest (2): (Gujarati)
Dr. Patel: (Gujarati conversation) [break]
Devotee: Till the sun goes down.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Not the sun. Whole day (indistinct) morning. That is how you are passing? If the sun goes down in the night..., day time? [break]
Prabhupada: ...but if one can continue, that's all right. (end)
Prabhupada: Svabhavam.
Dr. Patel: Sva means "own."
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Bhava means...? Bhava (Gujarati)? Essence, essence.
Prabhupada: Sva-bhavah means nature.
Dr. Patel: Nature. Sva-bhavah...
Chandobhai: Adhyatmam.
Dr. Patel: Adhi-atma. That is the...
Chandobhai: That is real bhava.
Prabhupada: Adhyatma. Adhyatma means bodily and mentally.
Chandobhai: Ah, bodily and mentally, yes.
Dr. Patel: Adhyatma? Bodily and mentally?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Mentally. Spiritually... Inner existence.
Prabhupada: No. Adhyatmam. Adhyatma. Atma means body, mind and the soul, but here adhyatma means the body and the mind. That is material nature. The body and mind is made of material nature. [break] ...creation.
Chandobhai: Creation, yes.
Prabhupada: So by working with the body, we create another creation.
Dr. Patel: Bhuta-bhavodbhava...
Prabhupada: Just like now I am a human being. Next life I may be a demigod, I may be a dog. That I create. That is sarga.
Dr. Patel: That is karma.
Chandobhai: That is his karma. That is his karma.
Dr. Patel: What is karma?
Prabhupada: Karma, anyone can understand. As you... Fruitive activities. You do something and enjoy the good or bad result. That is karma. You do something, either good or bad. So the result you'll have to suffer or enjoy.
Dr. Patel: But here is a very big question. I'm very sorry to... Who does the karma? Unless and until we have got ahankara in that, then...
Prabhupada: The ahankara is there, false ahankara. You are thinking that "I am ksatriya." That is false ahankara.
Dr. Patel: That is what I said. So doer is that, ahankara is the doer.
Prabhupada: That ahankara...
Dr. Patel: Then it is karma. Not otherwise.
Prabhupada: As soon as you come to the material world, the ahankara is there, that "I... I belong to India." "I belong to America." "I belong to brahmana community, ksatriya..." The ahankara is there. Ahankara-vimudhatma. So long this ahankara is there, "I am this, I am that," all bodily concept...
Chandobhai: Ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27].
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: But this karma. Here is the question of karma.
Prabhupada: The karma... Karma means he is doing, but every, everyone is doing in his own way. Nobody, nobody cares to understand the instruction of Krsna. Everyone is doing in his own way. That is karma.
Dr. Patel: Kim karma kim akarmeti kavayo...
Prabhupada: Ah, that will be explained. Karma, akarma, yes. [break] ...the same, material. Ksara. Ksara bhavah. That is perishable.
Chandobhai: Perishable.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Purusas cadhidaivatam.
Prabhupada: Purusa. Purusa means the soul.
Chandobhai: Soul. Jiva.
Prabhupada: Yes, the jiva. Purusa adhidaivatam. Then?
Chandobhai: Adhiyajno 'ham evatra.
Prabhupada: Adhiyajnah means Paramatma.
Dr. Patel: Adhidaiva means jiva.
Prabhupada: No.
Chandobhai: No, no. Adhidaiva, purusa.
Prabhupada: Adhidaiva, jiva. Adhiyajna, Paramatma.
Dr. Patel: That is what I said.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Adhiyajna is... [break]
Prabhupada: Karma means which produces result. And akarma means which does not produce result. So that they do not know.
Chandobhai: And the vikarma.
Prabhupada: Just like these activities, devotional service, it does not produce any result. And the ordinary man... Suppose they are also selling books. An ordinary man also selling books. It appears to be the same. But they are not creating any result. But ordinary bookseller, he's creating his result, papa-punya. That is karma and akarma. And vikarma. Vikarma means against the...
Chandobhai: Vikrta karma.
Prabhupada: Yes, vikrta.
Chandobhai: Vikrta, against sastra.
Dr. Patel: Although the actions which are prohibitory...
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Dr. Patel: ...and if we do it, it is vikarma.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Adhiyajno 'ham evatra dehe deha-bhrtam vara. Isvara, isvara.
Prabhupada: Isvara.
Dr. Patel: That means isvarah sarva-bhutanam... [Bg. 18.61]. [break]
Prabhupada: ...important thing, mam, Krsna. They practice it, always remembering Krsna. Then at the end of life, ante narayana-smrti. That is perfection of life. But how one will remember, ante, then? There is a verse of... Just wait.
Chandobhai: Yam yam vapi smaran... [Bg. 8.6].
Prabhupada: No. Just wait. There is a verse by Kulasekhara. Kulasekhara. Adyaiva visatu me manasa-raja-hamsah. He says. He says, "My Lord..." The idea is that "Now I am in quite fit order. So let me remember You and die. Because at the end of... At the end of... Kapha-pitta-vayu, there will be disorder. Smaranam kutas te [MM 33]. At that time, it is..."
Dr. Patel: How can there be the smaran?
Prabhupada: Yes. "Therefore, my Lord, I pray that adyaiva, immediately, because now I am fit."
Dr. Patel: Right now.
Prabhupada: Right now. "Now I am fit. So let me remember You and die." So one must be fit. You see, even in daily, in dream, while sleeping, we forget so many things. Everything we forget.
Chandobhai: Yes.
Prabhupada: So at the time of death, when everything is disordered, nothing is in order, unless one is very strongly practiced, how he can remember?
Dr. Patel: My father spoke, "Om," and he stopped breathing and...
Prabhupada: That's nice. Om, om ity eka... That is...
Dr. Patel: Then he stopped breathing.
Prabhupada: That means he practiced. Therefore, either you practice Om or Hare Krsna, that is all right.
Dr. Patel: Whatever we do of our whole, all our whole, all day of life, it comes at the end. That is why you must continue to do for the life.
Prabhupada: Twenty-four hours. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. Always Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Hare Krsna... In this way practicing, if somebody is fortunate enough, he can remember.
Dr. Patel: Esa brahmi sthitih partha na... Sthitva samanta-kale 'pi brahma-nirvanam rcchati.
Prabhupada: So...
Dr. Patel: Therefore at the last moment you... But you can't get that last moment in this position because you have, whole life, you have...
Prabhupada: Yes, you have spoiled your life simply in material activities. How you can remember?
Dr. Patel: But even if you are doing material activities by your body, and by your mental activities you are bhaja krsna...
Prabhupada: But you are under the body... Prakrteh kriyamanani [Bg. 3.27]. Body and mind is working... Unless you practice to be above body and mind... That is bhakti-yoga. Mam cavyabhicarini-bhakti-yoga..., sa gunan samatitya. You cannot expect that you go on doing all these material activities and at the time of death you'll remember Krsna. That is not possible.
Dr. Patel: That can't be done.
Prabhupada: That is not possible.
Chandobhai: Should be a real concentrated difference
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: When you do the work, you should be a real concentration.
Prabhupada: That is not possible.
Chandobhai: Therefore there is no... Because your attachment is more to the...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: ...reserves of that...
Prabhupada: Vita-raga-bhaya-krodha man-maya... [Bg. 4.10].
Chandobhai: Mad-bhaktah.
Prabhupada: Man-maya mad-asritah. Unless he takes shelter of Krsna, these things are not possible. Simply by talking it is not possible. There must be practice.
Chandobhai: Acaropanam.(?)
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit)
Chandobhai: Yam yam vapi smaram bhavam tyajanty ante... [break]
Prabhupada: There is a risk. Yam yam vapi. If you are thinking of dog, then you become a dog.
Dr. Patel: Just as Bharata did it.
Prabhupada: Yes. yes, that is example. Even Bharata Maharaja, such a great personality, simply due to little affection to a cub of deer, he became a deer. So these people are attached to so many things. So how much risk is there at the time of death they do not understand. Therefore Krsna says, mam ekam.
Chandobhai: Tasmat sarvesu kalesu mam eva... [Bg. 8.7].
Prabhupada: Mam ekam: Then you...
Dr. Patel: Therefore every time, every moment...
Prabhupada: That is... This is stressed. If you...
Dr. Patel: Mam smarata yudhya ca.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yudhya means "do your activity."
Prabhupada: Yes. But always think. Just like these people are, these, they are doing that. They are doing their duty. Somebody's going to there, somebody's going there, somebody's there... But their chanting is there. That is not avoided. That is not avoided. Sada tad bhava-bhavitah [Bg. 8.6]. Then Krsna favors, "Yes, he has done his best."
Chandobhai: Tasmat sarvesu kalesu... [Bg. 8.7].
Prabhupada: Ah!
Dr. Patel: Yudhya ca. Yudhya ca.
Chandobhai: Mayy arpita-mano buddhir mam evaisyasy asamsayah [Bg. 8.7].
Prabhupada: Ah! Asamsayah. Because his mind is in Krsna, it doesn't matter he's fighting. Fighting is superfluous. Real thing is mind is in Krsna.
Dr. Patel: That is bhramara-nyaya.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Bhramara-nyaya. Because the small ant... [break]
Chandobhai: ...nanya-gamina.
Dr. Patel: Abhyasa-yoga, by... We explained that...
Prabhupada: One... Abhyasa-yoga... You practice this. Therefore we say, "You must chant at least sixteen rounds." This is abhyasa-yoga. When one becomes attached to chanting, he doesn't require to be under discipline. But so long he's not practiced, he must be under... Just like a boy. He's instructed by the teacher, "You must give me at least four pages handwriting." So four pages handwriting means writing, writing, he'll be practiced. So therefore these are the practice. You must...
Chandobhai: Nanya-gamina.
Prabhupada: Nanya-gamina. Because cetah, mind is very flickering. So unless you fix up your mind under some regulative principles, then it is not possible. (indistinct) Everyone becomes paramahamsa: "Oh, I am now advanced. I do not require all these regulative principles."
Dr. Patel: What is paramahamsa?
Prabhupada: Paramahamsa means he's above. Paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. That is paramahamsa.
Chandobhai: Paramam purusam divyam yati parthanucintayan.
Prabhupada: Yes. Paramam purusam divyam yati.
Dr. Patel: Parthanucintayan. By thinking about... [break]
Prabhupada: Smartavyah satato visnuh. Therefore one has to think of Visnu always, twenty-four hours, in so many ways.
Chandobhai: Kavim puranam anusasitaram.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Anor aniyan anusmared yah, sarvasya dhataram acintya-rupam...
Prabhupada: This is the description of the param.
Chandobhai: Aditya-varnam tamasah parastat. Prayana-kale manasacalena...
Prabhupada: [break] ...varna. That is... Aditya-varna means self-effulgent. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. That is aditya-varna. Aditya is never in darkness.
Chandobhai: Prayana-kale manasacalena...
Dr. Patel: Prayana-kale manasacalena. Acalena.
Prabhupada: Again... Acalena. Acalena means he has been practiced to fix his mind to Krsna. Then, if he's successful, the prayana-kale, he must remember.
Chandobhai: Yes, yes. Here. Bhaktya yukto yoga-balena caiva.
Prabhupada: Yoga. Bhaktya. That is the bhakti-yoga. Not otherwise.
Chandobhai: Bhruvor madhye pranam avesya samyak.
Prabhupada: Ah. Hare Krsna. [break] ...they meditate all the life, the so-called yogis. Something impersonal... Some light, like this, like that. Light may be also, if that Brahman light. But here it is specifically mentioned...
Dr. Patel: Especially spontaneously you feel some light...
Prabhupada: That's all right, Brahma-light. But the Brahma-light, according to Bhagavata philosophy, even one enters in the Brahman effulgence, still he falls down. Still he falls down. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah anadhrta-yusmad-anghrayah [SB 10.2.32]. Unless one is fixed up in the personal form of the Lord, there is chance of falling down. They fall down actually. We have seen so many sannyasis. Just like at the present moment, Korpatali(?). He's now busy in politics.
Dr. Patel: One man married in America, some sannyasi.
Chandobhai: Citrabhanu, Citrabhanu.
Dr. Patel: Citrabhanu, or... [break]
Prabhupada: ...one is God.
Bhagavata: Citrabhanu.
Chandobhai: Citrabhanu, yes.
Bhagavata: Brahmananda Swami met him in Mombassa, Srila Prabhupada, and he was speaking all this nonsense. Then he went to America... [break]
Chandobhai: ...icchanto brahmacaryam caranti.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Tat te padam sangrahena pravaksye. Now He will tell us in sangraha...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: ...that padam.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: That is Goloka dhama.
Prabhupada: That is Krsna. Yes. Yad aksaram veda-vido vadanti. That means impersonal. Veda-vido. One who knows Vedas.
Chandobhai: Visanti yad yatayo vita-ragah.
Prabhupada: Then?
Chandobhai: You see, now He tells all the practice of the yoga.
sarva-dvarani samyamya
mano hrdi-nirudhya ca
murdhny adhayatmanah pranam
asthito yoga-dharanam
Prabhupada: Yes, that's... Artificially you cannot samyama. If your mind is not fixed-up, artificially you cannot make. Therefore Krsna says, yoginam api sarvesam mad gata... [Bg. 6.47]. One who is thinking of Krsna, he is perfect yogi.
Chandobhai: But he has to be yogi at that time, isn't it?
Prabhupada: Yes. Sarva-dvarani samyamya. Just like these boys, they do not go to see cinema, they do not go to restaurant. This is sarva-dvarani samyamya. You see? They do not go to anywhere except in the temple. They do not talk anything nonsense, except Krsna. This is sarva-dvarani samyamya.
Dr. Patel: They should not talk anything else except Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. Vacamsi vaikuntha-gunanuvarnane. So this is sam... Unless you give engagement to the senses, proper, how you can control it? Your eyes want to see beautiful of man or woman. (aside:) Hare Krsna. But when you are captivated by seeing the Deity of Krsna and Radha, then that eyes being engaged otherwise is stopped. That has been explained by Prabhodananda Sarasvati. Durdantendriya-kala-sarpa-
Dr. Patel: What do you call?
Prabhupada: Kala, kala-sarpa means the dead(ly) poisonous snake, kala-sarpa-patali. Everyone knows. As soon as you use some indriya, there is some dangerous result. Trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duhkha-bhajah [SB 7.9.45]. Take for... [break]
Dr. Patel: Om is God.
Prabhupada: Om, yes. Krsna says, pranavah sarva-vedesu. Pranavah sarva-vedesu.
Chandobhai: That is om in that way.
Prabhupada: Because om means Krsna. That is mam.
Dr. Patel: I told you.
Prabhupada: When one chanting om, if he remembers just the om is Krsna, then he's successful. Mam. Om ity ekaksaram...
Chandobhai: Om ity ekaksaram brahma.
Dr. Patel: It is ekaksara Brahman.
Chandobhai: Vyaharan mam.
Prabhupada: Vyaharan mam. If he knows...
Dr. Patel: Vyaharan mam anusmara [Bg. 8.7].
Prabhupada: Anusmara. If he knows that omkara is Krsna, then he's successful. If he thinks that omkara is something else than Krsna, then he's not successful.
Chandobhai:
ananya-cetah satatam
yo mam smarati nityasah
tasyaham sulabhah partha
nitya-yuktasya yoginah
[Bg. 8.14]
Prabhupada: So there is no need of doing this or that. Simply always remember Krsna. That is the conclusion.
Chandobhai:
mam upetya punar janma
duhkhalayam asasvatam
napnuvanti mahatmanah
samsiddhim paramam gatah
[Bg. 8.15]
Prabhupada: That is samsiddhi. They are mahatmas, those who are always remembering Krsna. They are mahatmas. Not by the red dress. No, that is not mahatma. Even in white dress you can become. If you always chant and remember Krsna, you become mahatma.
Chandobhai: Now there is a higher philosophy: a-brahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16], mam upetya punar janma... [Bg. 8.15]. No?
Dr. Patel: Mam eti janardana.
Prabhupada: No.
Chandobhai: Mam evaiti kaunteya punar janma na vidyate.
Prabhupada: A-brahma-bhuvanal lokah... Within this material world, these persons who are doing pious activities, they are promoted to the higher planetary systems. But even if you go to the Brahmaloka -- that is the highest -- where you can get millions of years, your life duration, but still, ksine punye martya-lokam visanti [Bg. 9.21], you have to come back.
Chandobhai: Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmano viduh [Bg. 8.17], ratrim...
Prabhupada: Now He explaining what is Brahmaloka. That one day of Brahma, you cannot calculate. And still, you have to die.
Dr. Patel: Twelve hundred yugas is called one Brahma.
Chandobhai: So our hundred years is nothing for...
Prabhupada: It is nothing.
Chandobhai: It is a moment only.
Dr. Patel: Twelve hundred yugas.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Not twelve hundred yugas. One thousand yugas. One thousand. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmano viduh [Bg. 8.17].
Dr. Patel: Sahasra-yuga means four yugas, (Hindi) like that...
Prabhupada: That... Four yugas multiplied by one thousand.
Dr. Patel: By one thousand.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Four thousand.
Prabhupada: So four yuga means forty-three lakhs of years. Now, add three zeroes. Forty-three lakhs of years, add three zeroes. Then how many?
Dr. Patel: About four, about... Car...
Prabhupada: Eh? Forty-three lakhs, as...
Dr. Patel: Car ardha...
Prabhupada: Forty-three, eight zeroes.
Dr. Patel: Car... (Gujarati)
Prabhupada: This is Brahma's twelve days, uh, twelve hours.
Dr. Patel: Ratri, (Gujarati)
Chandobhai: Why not... There's a little question to ask: What are the Pitrloka, Martyaloka and this...?
Prabhupada: They are planets.
Chandobhai: And the Brahmaloka and all the...?
Prabhupada: Yes. They are different... Just like Candraloka, Suryaloka, Vayuloka.
Chandobhai: What is that Pitrloka actually?
Prabhupada: Pitrloka means the... There is a, called a Pitrloka.
Chandobhai: But then in the Pitrloka is it may be that, there may be remembrances of the charity, activities, and all these things or...
Prabhupada: No, these are all material.
Dr. Patel: Pitrloka (Gujarati) They are all your past pitrs.
Chandobhai: No, let us hear from him.
Prabhupada: Pitrn yanti... Devan yanti... What is that? Deva... Pitrn yanti pitr-vratah. So those who are just like fond of performing sraddhas, karma-kanda, they go to the Pitrloka.
Dr. Patel: These are all, I mean, ordained to perform sraddha, all Vaisnavas.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, Vaisnavas do not do so.
Dr. Patel: We are... We, all are, all of us, are we not doing...
Prabhupada: No.
Dr. Patel: Sraddha ceremony...
Prabhupada: The Vaisnava, Vaisnava has no duty except serving Krsna. That's all.
Dr. Patel: That's right. But a Vaisnava family...
Prabhupada: No.
Chandobhai: Grhasthas, grhasthas.
Dr. Patel: Grhasthas.
Prabhupada: He, whatever he may be. That is stated, that is stated that...
Dr. Patel: Only Jains can do.
Prabhupada: That is stated that pitrnam. No, what is that verse? Devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam-pitrnam [SB 11.5.41]. We are... Just like we are indebted to our forefathers, family, similarly we are indebted to devas, the demigods. Just like the sun is supplying light. So we are indebted. Deva, rsi, to the great, big, big, saintly rsis. They have given us the sastras. Devarsi, devarsi bhuta... Bhuta, ordinary living entities. Just like you are taking milk from the cows. And another, horse, is giving me service. So devarsi-bhuta apta, relatives. We take so much help from relatives. Devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam, ordinary human beings. Pitrnam. And the pitrs. So we are debted to so many. If you want to clear up the debts, it will take millions of births. (laughter) So devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam-pitrnam nayam kinkara na rni ca rajan [SB 11.5.41]. This man is neither servant nor indebted. Who? Sarvatmana yah saranam mukundam. One who has taken... That Krsna says, that "You just surrender unto Me. I will protect you." So if he does not do anything else... One may think that he is being entangled in sinful activities because he does not do other duties. But Krsna says, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami [Bg. 18.66]. So one who has taken shelter, full shelter unto Krsna, he doesn't require to do any so-called social, political and other duties. He doesn't require.
Dr. Patel: And here He means... He's about those pralaya. Bhuta-gramah sa evayam bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19].
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Ratry-agame avasah partha prabhavaty ahar-agame.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. When we...
Dr. Patel: Paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah.. [Bg. 8.20].,
Prabhupada: That is the spiritual world. That is the spiritual...
Dr. Patel: Yah sa sarvesu bhutesu nasyatsu na vinasyati. That is purna brahma.
Prabhupada: That is spiritual world. That is spiritual world, beyond this material world. So they have no information what is that spiritual world. Therefore it is said that... Here it is going on, pralaya, anya pralaya. During Brahma's night, there is dissolution. Again creation. And when Brahma dies, there is another dissolution. That is going on. But paras tasmat, above this creation and dissolution, there is another nature. That is sanatana. That is eternal.
Dr. Patel: Yah sa sarvesu bhutesu nasyatsu na vinasyati.
Prabhupada: Ah, so why the...
Dr. Patel: Avyakto 'ksara ity uktas tam ahuh paramam gatim [Bg. 8.21].
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yam prapya na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama.
Prabhupada: Paramam mama. Now, again, He's come to mama. "That dhama is mama, Mine."
Dr. Patel: Purusah sa parah partha...
Prabhupada: And that mama...
Dr. Patel: ...bhaktya labhyas tv ananyaya.
Prabhupada: Yes. Bhaktya labhya ananyaya. Not ordinarily.
Dr. Patel: Purusa...
Prabhupada: Ananya bhaktya.
Dr. Patel: Sir, I am repeating. Purusah sa parah partha bhaktya labhyas tv anyaya.
Prabhupada: That, the predominating Deity in that sanatana world, spiritual world, is purusa, a person. Purusa, a person. And He is achieved-bhaktya ananya. Not by mix. Mixing this, mixing that. "This is also good. This is also good." No. He cannot. Bhaktya ananyaya.
Dr. Patel: Yasyantah-sthani bhutani
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yena sarvam idam tatam.
Prabhupada: Tatam. That Purusa is spread all over.
Chandobhai: But He's not Krsna. He is Krsna also.
Prabhupada: Yes, He is Krsna.
Chandobhai: Yasyantah-sthani bhutani.
Prabhupada: All Vaikuntha-pati, Narayana, Narayana.
Dr. Patel: Just as (indistinct) saw a whole world within the mouth of Bala Mukunda.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Within the body of Bala Mukunda.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yasyantah-sthani bhutani yena sarvam idam tatam.
yatra kale tv anavrttim
avrttim caiva yoginah
prayata yanti tam kalam
vaksyami bharatarsabha
That is the...
Prabhupada: This is material calculation.
Dr. Patel: Agnir jyotir ahah suklah san-masa uttarayanam...
Prabhupada: Then he assures, assures Arjuna that "You are assured. Your coming to Me is assured."
Dr. Patel: (Gujarati)
dhumo ratris tatha krsnah
san-masa daksinayanam
tatra candramasam jyotir
yogi prapya nivartate
Prabhupada: This is material calculation.
Dr. Patel:
sukla-krsne gati hy ete
jagatah sasvate mate
ekaya yaty anavrttim
anyayavartate punah
naite srti partha janan
yogi muhyati kascana
That is... Now you come.
naite srti partha janan
yogi muhyati kascana
tasmat sarvesu kalesu
yoga-yukto bhavarjuna
[Bg. 8.7]
Prabhupada: Yes. This is the position. Sarvesu kalesu. Not that sometimes here and sometimes there. That will take long time, but unless one comes to sarvesu kalesu, always thinking of Krsna...
Dr. Patel: Vedesu yajnesu tapahsu caiva danesu yat-punya-phalam pradistam...
Prabhupada: Satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drdha-vratah [Bg. 9.14]. That is required.
Dr. Patel: Yajnesu.
vedesu yajnesu tapahsu caiva
danesu yat-punya-phalam pradistam
atyeti tat sarvam idam viditva
yogi param sthanam upaiti cadyam
Prabhupada: Yes. So if one understands that all these pious activities, charity, performance of sacrifices, and so many other things, only by Krsna bhakti can be achieved, then he's assured.
Dr. Patel: This is the last verse.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...yuktena. Now just this woman is carrying a load on her head, how she's keeping balance. He cannot do that.
Dr. Patel: That is Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said. No, no, that is not Indira Gandhi. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said the same thing as you say...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...that she should remain...
Prabhupada: It is not Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. This is sastric.
Dr. Patel: While we're talking about all these things, but the mind is in the load there. Their mind is on the load.
Prabhupada: So... [break] ...by abhyasa yoga-yuktena [Bg. 8.8], everything can be done.
Bhagavata: Prabhupada, can you tell us maybe something about Lord Ramacandra's activities, today being Rama-naumi.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now, you can, some of you can speak about Lord Ramacandra. No? Dr. Patel, you can speak something about...
Dr. Patel: About what?
Bhagavata: Lord Ramacandra's activities.
Prabhupada: [break] ...taran niyamena tisthan. [break] God is not obliged to accept your direction. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: He'll not oblige the brahmanas unfortunately. He'll oblige only the ksatriyas. I don't know why.
Prabhupada: Because he comes: paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. That is ksatriya's business. Sadhu protection (Hindi). This is ksatriya's business. God has got two business. Paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam. If you want to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gita, it is difficult. (laughs) It is not possible. He says that "I have got two business: paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam, dharma-samsthapanarthaya..." Unless these two things are there, there cannot be establishment of real law and order. [break] ...everywhere, law and order. In spiritual also. Unless there is law and order, it is chaos. Law and order must be there.
Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the civilization.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the proper civilization. Before, when... [break]
Prabhupada: ...right civilization begins when the society is organized. Otherwise, it's cats' and dogs' civilization. That is not civilization. Unless... Varnasramacaravata purusena parah puman [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. The society becomes perfect when the members of the society can understand that this human body is meant for satisfying Visnu. That is the beginning of organized society. So long they do not know that, that is animal society. Because the animals, they do not know that.
Dr. Patel: Shall we go back?
Prabhupada: Yes. The animals, they do not know. [break] They do not know it, that "We have to satisfy the Supreme Visnu." So unless the society comes to this consciousness that "We have to satisfy the Supreme," that is not human society. Now, how they will understand? Therefore four divisions.
Dr. Patel: Guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13].
Prabhupada: Guna... Yes. So if the four divisions work nicely, then it is healthy society. Otherwise it is not. If different parts of your body work nicely, then you are healthy.
Dr. Patel: Each section of the society has to, I mean, work as a...
Prabhupada: For the maintenance.
Dr. Patel: ...part of the whole.
Prabhupada: Whole, yes. That doesn't matter whether you are sudra or brahmana. Your aim should be how to develop Krsna consciousness. Then it is perfect.
ya imam purusam saksad
atma-prabhavam isvaram
na bhajanty abhijananti
sthanad bhrastah patanty adhah
Dr. Patel: They fall down from their own position.
Prabhupada: Yes. It doesn't matter whether a brahmana, ksatriya, or vaisya, sudra. If you are conscious that "I have to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to my capacity of work," then he'll not fall down. He'll not fall down. [break] ...fall down from the position, then it is dead society. It is not living society. At the present moment. Yes. If you don't find actual brahmana, don't find actual ksatriya, don't find actual vaisya, so all sudras. And there is no guide. Therefore chaotic condition. [break] ...ship without rudder? What is called? Yes. They do not know what is the aim of life. Ask any leader. The leader, he says, "No, this aim of life is to drink and enjoy. That's all." This is going on. After diplomacy, politics, when they are tired, they go to the hotel or club and enjoy and drink. That's all. This is their aim of life. [break] ...countries there are even shops, they indulge all these things, topless, bottomless, like that. Because that is the only solace to this materialistic life. There is no other. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. That is their... They have no other pleasure except that sex life. They have no information that there is another pleasure. That, they, they are not educated. So they must come to the sex life only.
Dr. Patel: I think this has become very wild after the Second World War.
Prabhupada: No, no. It is always there. It is always there. That is material world. Material world means that, sex life. That's all. And if you increase it, then you increase your material life more and more. Therefore the process is tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. The brahmacarya is so much stressed. Tapasa brahmacaryena. Samena damena va, tyagena saucena yamena niyamena va. This is the process of human life. Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]. This human body is not meant for working hard like pigs for sense gratification. So they have been taught to become pigs. No discrimination of sex. The pig has no discrimination. So they have been taught. Not... When it is in sastra, that means it is from the very beginning. A class of men are like pigs and hogs there are, always. So therefore Rsabhadeva is forbidding his sons that "This human form of life is not to waste like the pigs and hogs." Then what? Tapasa. Tapo divyam putrakah...
Dr. Patel: Rsabhadeva's hundred sons.
Prabhupada: Eh? Yes. Tapo divyam putrakah [SB 5.5.1].
Dr. Patel: Eighty-one sons. Eighty-one sons.
Prabhupada: Jaya. It is... Human life is meant for tapasya, but where is tapasya? They are simply teaching, "Yes, here is contraceptive method. Take." No,... Wine shop...
Dr. Patel: They give it free of charge in the...
Prabhupada: Yes. So there is no question of tapasya now. Therefore the whole population is pigs, hogs and dogs. How you can expect peace and prosperity in this society? That is not possible. It is a society of pigs and hogs. Sva-vid... Sva-vid-varaha ustra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh. If somebody says, "If the..., it is a society of pigs and hogs, then what about these leaders?"
Dr. Patel: They are bigger hogs and pigs.
Prabhupada: Yes. That's all. That is stated: sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh [SB 2.3.19]. He's also a big pasuh. That's all. Otherwise how he can dare to see that "Bhajan is nuisance"? Because it is pasuh. He's not even a human being. Otherwise how he dares say like that? [break] ...reply that dacoit. If I reply, then I have to call him, "You are a pasuh."
Dr. Patel: And he told me...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...Giriraja, that he wants to reply separately.
Prabhupada: [break] ...why...
Dr. Patel: His confidence.(?)
Prabhupada: No. Their reply is murkhasya latosadhih.
Dr. Patel: [break] ...margam?
Prabhupada: Murkhasya latosadhih. It is very... [break] ...from this movement.
Dr. Patel: I have not read that letter.
Prabhupada: No.
Dr. Patel: Which way it has come?
Prabhupada: [break] ...barking, what is the use of arguing with him?
Dr. Patel: No, we have not read. I don't know how it came to our...
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...talking of this letter of commissioner.
Dr. Patel: Oh, commissioner. [break]
Prabhupada: They, because today's Rama Naumi, they're taking bath?
Dr. Patel: Yes, they are taking bath. [break]
Prabhupada: ...says that "Why don't you go to the forest?"
Dr. Patel: But that somebody must have told you.
Prabhupada: No, no. One of the important men. What is the name of that...?
Giriraja: Yogendrabhai.
Prabhupada: Yogendra. Yes. He's Yogendra. Yogi.
Dr. Patel: Yogendra Patel.
Prabhupada: Yes. Here is the sample of yogi. Krsna says, imam rajarsayo viduh. Imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. And a yogi says that "Go to the forest." Eh? The rajarsis are in the forest?
Dr. Patel: This is a mudha. [break]
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] ...garland, this girl. Garland just like beads.
Satsvarupa: Make a garland out of stone?
Prabhupada: Yes. Not stone.
Satsvarupa: Shells.
Prabhupada: They are conch shells, small conchshells. They are called gunja, gunja. They are called gunja? [break]
Guest (4) (Indian man): ...aham yogi nikita.(?) So what is that? Can you give me some light on that?
Prabhupada: Karma-yogi means one who does everything for Krsna. He's karma-yogi.
Guest (1): One who does everything for...?
Prabhupada: For Krsna.
Guest (1): For Krsna.
Prabhupada: Just like you are doing, doing some work. For whom you are doing?
Guest (1): For my own benefit.
Prabhupada: That's all. So that is karma. But when you do the same thing for Krsna, that is karma-yoga.
Guest (1): But (Hindi), if you do it for others, for Krsna, for Krsna's...
Prabhupada: Others... Others means... That is also a humbug. You cannot do anything for others. You do everything for yourself. That is a false propaganda. You see? That is humbugism. So either you can do for yourself or for Krsna. That's all.
Guest (1): I see. (Gujarati)
Prabhupada: [break] ...become a slogan nowadays. Nobody does for others. "For others," "For the poor," these are all humbug.
Guest (1): You think people are doing something hospitals, that is for others?
Prabhupada: Yes. That is also punya-karma.
Guest (1): (Hindi) Helping these temples, hospitals...?
Prabhupada: Yes. Temple construction is different from hospital construction. That is for Krsna.
Guest (1): But suppose somebody's doing hospitals. Is it not for others?
Prabhupada: Yes. But how many you can give shelter? A few. There are so many suffering people. You cannot provide hospitals for all of them. The hospitals are increasing, and the disease also increasing.
Guest (1): No, as you say that doing for others is humbug.
Prabhupada: No, no. Humbug means he cannot do it.
Guest (1): Accha.
Prabhupada: He cannot do it. He can do to his satisfaction only. That is... That is also for his satisfaction.
Guest (1): I see.
Prabhupada: Because by opening hospital, you cannot stop disease. That is not possible. Then what you are doing for the others? That is for your satisfaction. Try to understand. Because you cannot do anything, but still, you are wasting your time. That is for your satisfaction.
Guest (1): Naturally for myself.
Prabhupada: Yes. Hare Krsna. You cannot do anything. The hospitals are increasing, beds are increasing, and the diseases are increasing. Then what can you do?
Guest (1): We can do our own satisfaction.
Prabhupada: That's all. [break] ...done not meant for Krsna, that is for his own satisfaction. Just like Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent: "No, no, Krsna. I cannot kill my kinsmen." That is a good proposal. But that was his satisfaction.
Guest (1): That is very correct.
Prabhupada: Yes. That was his satisfaction. But Krsna wanted that "You must fight." And when he agreed to that, that is his perfection. Before that, he was trying to satisfy he.
Guest (1): Yes. When he surrendered to Krsna, that was his...
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the only purpose of life. Anything that is done, that is useless waste of time. Therefore Krsna particularly said, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vra... [Bg. 18.66]. That is ekam. You try to satisfy Krsna only. That will give you perfection. Otherwise your own satisfaction, that's all.
Guest (1): Yes, very correct, very correct.
Prabhupada: Whatever you do, that is your satisfaction. That is karma.
Guest (1): But not yogi.
Prabhupada: No, karma. [break] ...for your own sense satisfaction, that is karma. And if you do it for Krsna's satisfaction, that is karma-yoga.
Makhanlal: Pure bhakti and karma-yoga considered to be exactly the same?
Prabhupada: Exactly the same.
Prabhupada: Pure bhakti is above karma-yoga. Pure bhakti is above karma-yoga.
Bhagavata: That is the difference between the Chapter Karma-yoga and Karma-yoga in Krsna Consciousness.
Prabhupada: Yes. Pure, pure devotion means Sravanam kirtanam.
Guest (1): I read fifteen percent power cut from today in the state. They have not able to do the service in electric. [break]
Prabhupada: ...cut, cent percent. [break]
Makhanlal: ...you're performing, is the vaidhi-bhakti stage of...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Makhanlal: ...of the sadhana-bhakti, the regulative principles.
Prabhupada: Yes, vaidhi-bhakti means regulative principles, and when you are accustomed, automatically you perform, that is raga-bhakti.
Makhanlal: So vaidhi-bhakti is considered superior to karma-yoga then.
Prabhupada: No. Karma-yoga is better.
Makhanlal: Karma-yoga is better?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian man: Pure bhakti is superior.
Prabhupada: Pure bhakti is sravanam kirtanam. Sravanam kirtanam visnu-smaranam pada-sevanam, that is pure bhakti. [break]
Yasomatinandana: ...formed by anybody.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Karma-yoga.
Prabhupada: Unless one is inclined to take to devotion, it is not possible to take to karma-yoga. Who can sacrifice the profit?
Yasomatinandana: Does karma-yoga mean to follow exactly the sastras?
Prabhupada: Karma-yoga means yat karosi yaj juhosi kurusva tat mad-arpanam.
Yasomatinandana: Doing only for Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is karma-yoga.
Devotee: Which means?
Prabhupada: "Whatever you do, the result give Me."
Devotee: To Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yasomatinandana: So we are also, those who are on the vaidhi-bhakti (indistinct) on karma-yoga path because we are...
Prabhupada: Yes. They are acting under the order of the spiritual master. That is bhakti-yoga.
Bhagavata: So when one follows the nine activities of devotion purely, that is pure bhakti.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavata: Then when he's following those nine activities, then he's superior.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Bhagavata: Then that's superior to karma-yoga, to follow those nine principles purely.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Makhanlal: Raganuga-bhakti is also superior to karma-yoga then?
Prabhupada: Bhakti is perfect stage. That is not for ordinary man.
Yasomatinandana: What is the difference between karma-yoga and... or bhakti because they also (indistinct) Krsna?
Prabhupada: Now go on doing your duty, you'll understand (indistinct). Don't try to understand in one day.
Bhagavata: It will be revealed to us as we act.
Prabhupada: Yes, the more you become in service attitude, things will be revealed to you. (Sanskrit) prakasante. Becomes, it becomes manifest. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau sam eva sphuraty adhah [Brs. 1.2.234]. [break] ...answers.
Dr. Patel: What I will say now... I will make one man sit between the two, Vaisnavas.
Prabhupada: You know what the paramahamsas do?
Guests: It is mixed up.
Dr. Patel: It is what I give to that man. Mix up, then it is far better.
Prabhupada: So they are all paramahamsas.
Dr. Patel: Then let them miss. We don't mind. But they don't miss that door(?).
Guest (2): (Gujarati)
Dr. Patel: (Gujarati conversation) [break]
Devotee: Till the sun goes down.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Not the sun. Whole day (indistinct) morning. That is how you are passing? If the sun goes down in the night..., day time? [break]
Prabhupada: ...but if one can continue, that's all right. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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