Indian man (7): Swamiji, how could
you convince these Christian people that Christ was the son of God, or Krsna was
the...Prabhupada: Christ says himself that "I am the son of God."
(laughter)
Indian man (7): Many Christians, they do not...
Prabhupada: Many Christians also... There are so many Christian editions. That is another thing.
Bali-mardana: We have accepted.
Prabhupada: But all these Christians, they all my students, they are coming from Christian. How they accept Krsna as the father?
Guest (1): Prabhupada, did Christ return to the spiritual planets then, when he left the earth, to be with Krsna?
Prabhupada: He is coming from spiritual planets. He is authorized representative of Krsna, we accept him as saktyavesa-avatara. So I was invited in some priestly meeting in Melbourne, they asked me the question, "What is your opinion of Christ?" So I said "He's our guru." (laughter) Actually, we accept him as our guru. He's preaching God's message; he's Vaisnava. Anyone who accepts God, he's Vaisnava. He was explaining kingdom of God, God. So according to time, circumstances, audience... Now we can just imagine what kind of people he had to deal with, that his commandment is "Thou shall not kill." Then understand how much they were accustomed to killing. So what kind of men they were? And not only that, in spite of hearing his instruction "Thou shall not kill," they killed him first. So what kind of men they were, just imagine. He said, "Thou shall not kill," and they decided, "We shall kill you first." So this class of men he had to deal with.
Guest (1): What would happen to the people that killed Christ on the cross? Very bad, it seems.
Prabhupada: :Christ cannot be killed, but they killed themselves.
Devotee (3): So we read that Christ said "I and my father are one," so they say therefore Christ is Krsna, so therefore Krsna can't be God.
Prabhupada: "One" means in quality. And in the Vedic literature we say aham brahmasmi. That means we are one in quality. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. So now we are material-bhutah, jiva-bhutah. When we realize that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul, I am part and parcel of God," that is brahma-bhutah. Then bhakti begins.
brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param
[Bg. 18.54]
Then he enters into Vaikuntha, after Brahman realization. So Lord Buddha's finished?
Dhrstadyumna: No.
Prabhupada: Go on, finish it.
Dhrstadyumna: "The animal sacrifice as stated in the Vedas is different from the unrestricted animal killing in the slaughterhouse. Because the asuras or the so-called scholars of Vedic literatures put forward the evidence of animal killing in the Vedas, Lord Buddha superficially denied the authority of the Vedas. This rejection of the Vedas by Lord Buddha was adopted..."
Prabhupada: Just like, you said that in the Vedas there is animal killing, therefore... [break] That was not killing. So, instead of wasting his time he said "I don't care for your Vedas. It is my order that you stop if you love me." You cannot open slaughterhouse giving reference to the Vedas, or any sacrifice either. The Jews, and everyone, the Muhammadans, they also make sacrifice. One day in the year they sacrifice. It's not that they recommend open a slaughterhouse. This is all nonsense, raksasa. That sacrifice also recommended in this sense, that you cannot stop animal killing, there will be a class of men who will eat meat -- to give them some concession. So this is recommended, "All right, if you want to eat meat, you sacrifice." Amongst the Hindus, just like Kali-puja, Durga-puja, the animal eaters, they are given this concession, that "If you want to eat meat, you just worship Goddess Kali," and this goddess Kali-worshiping is recommended on the amavasya, the dark moon night, one day in a month, at the dead of night. So if one goes on eating meat in this way, one day in a month and dead of night, then he'll automatically give it up. "So much botheration, better give it up." Actually deny. "Yes, you can eat once in a month at the dead of night, when everyone will sleep, nobody can hear the screaming of the animal..." These are the recommendations. That is indirectly denying. If one is intelligent, he'll accept it, "Why so much botheration for eating meat? Better give it up."
Indian man (4): Srila Prabhupada, there are so many gurus...
Prabhupada: We are not talking of so many gurus, we are talking of real guru, that's all, real guru. Real guru is he who talks in disciplic succession of Krsna. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. That is guru. The bumifor(?) guru is no guru. Avaisnavo gurur na syat. Anyone who is not Vaisnava, he's not guru. First, He says in the Bhagavad-gita, Bhagavan, ya idam paramam guhyam mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati [Bg 18.68]. Find out this. He is guru, who is preaching what Krsna has taught, he's guru. Not that anyone and everyone becomes a guru. If you want to be cheated by such rascal guru, that is your business, but who is guru, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Anyone who preaches the teachings of Krsna, he is guru. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also says amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. "You become a guru on My order." "How shall I become guru? I have no knowledge." Oh, you don't require any knowledge to manufacture. Yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. "Simply repeat the instruction of Krsna, you become guru." Everyone can become. The instruction is there. Krsna says sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. We say the same thing. Not that "I have become Krsna, not..." We say "Surrender to Krsna." Then you become guru. Krsna's instruction, not to become Krsna. If you want to become Krsna, then you are not guru, you are cheater. Suppose you are working for master. If you say "My master has fixed up this price; you cannot change it," then you are honest salesman. And if you place yourself that "I am the master," then you are cheater. The cheater cannot be teacher. Teacher is he who simply teaches what Krsna has said, that's all. He is teacher. That is not difficult. Anyone can do it. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Whomever you meet, you simply speak to him the instruction of Krsna. Then you become guru. And if you don't say that, if you manufacture your own words, then you are cheater, you are not teacher. The so-called gurus, they're cheaters. They want to become Krsna. Therefore they are cheater. And it is very easy thing if you cheat people, that "You take this mantra and you become God." Is it so easy thing to become God? But they want to be cheated. "Purchasing mantra, I shall become God." They want to be cheated. They do not think that "Whether I can actually become God." They do not take the weight of His existence. Hare Krsna. Time? So what is the time now?
Pusta Krsna: Eight o'clock, Srila Prabhupada.
Devotees: (Offer obeisances)
Prabhupada: Prasadam. (Hindi for a few seconds) (end)
Indian man (7): Many Christians, they do not...
Prabhupada: Many Christians also... There are so many Christian editions. That is another thing.
Bali-mardana: We have accepted.
Prabhupada: But all these Christians, they all my students, they are coming from Christian. How they accept Krsna as the father?
Guest (1): Prabhupada, did Christ return to the spiritual planets then, when he left the earth, to be with Krsna?
Prabhupada: He is coming from spiritual planets. He is authorized representative of Krsna, we accept him as saktyavesa-avatara. So I was invited in some priestly meeting in Melbourne, they asked me the question, "What is your opinion of Christ?" So I said "He's our guru." (laughter) Actually, we accept him as our guru. He's preaching God's message; he's Vaisnava. Anyone who accepts God, he's Vaisnava. He was explaining kingdom of God, God. So according to time, circumstances, audience... Now we can just imagine what kind of people he had to deal with, that his commandment is "Thou shall not kill." Then understand how much they were accustomed to killing. So what kind of men they were? And not only that, in spite of hearing his instruction "Thou shall not kill," they killed him first. So what kind of men they were, just imagine. He said, "Thou shall not kill," and they decided, "We shall kill you first." So this class of men he had to deal with.
Guest (1): What would happen to the people that killed Christ on the cross? Very bad, it seems.
Prabhupada: :Christ cannot be killed, but they killed themselves.
Devotee (3): So we read that Christ said "I and my father are one," so they say therefore Christ is Krsna, so therefore Krsna can't be God.
Prabhupada: "One" means in quality. And in the Vedic literature we say aham brahmasmi. That means we are one in quality. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. So now we are material-bhutah, jiva-bhutah. When we realize that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul, I am part and parcel of God," that is brahma-bhutah. Then bhakti begins.
brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param
[Bg. 18.54]
Then he enters into Vaikuntha, after Brahman realization. So Lord Buddha's finished?
Dhrstadyumna: No.
Prabhupada: Go on, finish it.
Dhrstadyumna: "The animal sacrifice as stated in the Vedas is different from the unrestricted animal killing in the slaughterhouse. Because the asuras or the so-called scholars of Vedic literatures put forward the evidence of animal killing in the Vedas, Lord Buddha superficially denied the authority of the Vedas. This rejection of the Vedas by Lord Buddha was adopted..."
Prabhupada: Just like, you said that in the Vedas there is animal killing, therefore... [break] That was not killing. So, instead of wasting his time he said "I don't care for your Vedas. It is my order that you stop if you love me." You cannot open slaughterhouse giving reference to the Vedas, or any sacrifice either. The Jews, and everyone, the Muhammadans, they also make sacrifice. One day in the year they sacrifice. It's not that they recommend open a slaughterhouse. This is all nonsense, raksasa. That sacrifice also recommended in this sense, that you cannot stop animal killing, there will be a class of men who will eat meat -- to give them some concession. So this is recommended, "All right, if you want to eat meat, you sacrifice." Amongst the Hindus, just like Kali-puja, Durga-puja, the animal eaters, they are given this concession, that "If you want to eat meat, you just worship Goddess Kali," and this goddess Kali-worshiping is recommended on the amavasya, the dark moon night, one day in a month, at the dead of night. So if one goes on eating meat in this way, one day in a month and dead of night, then he'll automatically give it up. "So much botheration, better give it up." Actually deny. "Yes, you can eat once in a month at the dead of night, when everyone will sleep, nobody can hear the screaming of the animal..." These are the recommendations. That is indirectly denying. If one is intelligent, he'll accept it, "Why so much botheration for eating meat? Better give it up."
Indian man (4): Srila Prabhupada, there are so many gurus...
Prabhupada: We are not talking of so many gurus, we are talking of real guru, that's all, real guru. Real guru is he who talks in disciplic succession of Krsna. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. That is guru. The bumifor(?) guru is no guru. Avaisnavo gurur na syat. Anyone who is not Vaisnava, he's not guru. First, He says in the Bhagavad-gita, Bhagavan, ya idam paramam guhyam mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati [Bg 18.68]. Find out this. He is guru, who is preaching what Krsna has taught, he's guru. Not that anyone and everyone becomes a guru. If you want to be cheated by such rascal guru, that is your business, but who is guru, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Anyone who preaches the teachings of Krsna, he is guru. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also says amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. "You become a guru on My order." "How shall I become guru? I have no knowledge." Oh, you don't require any knowledge to manufacture. Yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. "Simply repeat the instruction of Krsna, you become guru." Everyone can become. The instruction is there. Krsna says sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. We say the same thing. Not that "I have become Krsna, not..." We say "Surrender to Krsna." Then you become guru. Krsna's instruction, not to become Krsna. If you want to become Krsna, then you are not guru, you are cheater. Suppose you are working for master. If you say "My master has fixed up this price; you cannot change it," then you are honest salesman. And if you place yourself that "I am the master," then you are cheater. The cheater cannot be teacher. Teacher is he who simply teaches what Krsna has said, that's all. He is teacher. That is not difficult. Anyone can do it. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Whomever you meet, you simply speak to him the instruction of Krsna. Then you become guru. And if you don't say that, if you manufacture your own words, then you are cheater, you are not teacher. The so-called gurus, they're cheaters. They want to become Krsna. Therefore they are cheater. And it is very easy thing if you cheat people, that "You take this mantra and you become God." Is it so easy thing to become God? But they want to be cheated. "Purchasing mantra, I shall become God." They want to be cheated. They do not think that "Whether I can actually become God." They do not take the weight of His existence. Hare Krsna. Time? So what is the time now?
Pusta Krsna: Eight o'clock, Srila Prabhupada.
Devotees: (Offer obeisances)
Prabhupada: Prasadam. (Hindi for a few seconds) (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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