Death And Dreams

Los Angeles, June 3, 1976

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Ramesvara: Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Krsna has unlimited energies. Yesterday you were explaining in your garden to that priest that Krsna, He says, Krsna says, "I am the father of all living entities." And you were saying, "Who can challenge this or deny it?" Now someone can say that there is contradiction, if there is some contradiction in Krsna's statement, therefore...Prabhupada: Who can deny? Who can contradict this? That is my challenge. The contradiction is not valid. Who can contradict it? That is my challenge.
Ramesvara: Well, say in some philosophy...
Prabhupada: Just like a father, a real father can say, "I am the father." Who can challenge? Father is one. Who can? Nobody can say "No, you are not father, he's father." No. The real father is father. Father cannot be replaced.
Ramesvara: No.
Prabhupada: Yes. Suppose real father says, "I am the father of this boy." Who will challenge it?
Ramesvara: Someone who does not believe my father.
Prabhupada: That means he's a rascal. But father cannot be changed. He does not know; he challenges, that's all. How the father can be changed? Father is one.
Ramesvara: We say that Krsna is all good.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: And then the materialist says, "If Krsna is all good, then how is there any evil?"
Prabhupada: Evil is you.
Ramesvara: But everything comes from Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. Everything comes from.... Yes. If.... You have created a situation. So for your satisfaction, Krsna has given you the chance, but that is evil, what you have created.
Ramesvara: But I have this propensity because I am part of Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. When you come under maya, you have got so many propensities. So as soon as you disobey Krsna, the maya is there. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare (Prema-vivarta), immediately. Just like darkness and light. As soon as you give up light, you come to darkness. There is no second alternative.
Ramesvara: Krsna is the friend of everyone.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: So why does He allow me to have this independence?
Prabhupada: No, that is His.... Why not?
Ramesvara: Because it is not good for me.
Prabhupada: Then you are not perfectly Krsna's amsa. Krsna has got independence. You see one son is born, even a father has got a black spot here, sometimes the son has got black spot.
Ramesvara: But if it's not good for me, if I will misuse it, why would Krsna give it to me anyway?
Prabhupada: Yes, therefore the demand is "You surrender, rascal. You are suffering, you surrender. That is your good..." Therefore He comes, He loves His sons, "You rascals, why you are creating plans? You come here. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. I shall give you all comforts."
Ramesvara: Krsna knows everything in the past, and everything in the future.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: So when Krsna.... Krsna knows that I will misuse my independence, but still He gives me independence.
Prabhupada: That is Krsna's mercy.
Ramesvara: Even though it is bad for me.
Pusta Krsna: You say Krsna knows you are going to misuse your independence.
Ramesvara: Because He knows everything in the past and everything in the future. So He must.... Krsna is all-knowing.
Prabhupada: This present, future, means, just like a father knows the..., how the child is. Now if the child changes, and touches the fire, Krsna knows it will burn. He knew when the child did not touch the fire, his future. And when he touched the fire, Krsna knew the result. So He always knows. His position is to know the future. He's always.... Now you are changing, what is the future due to your little independence?
Pusta Krsna: So can you actually say that Krsna knows you'll misuse your independence? He knows if you misuse your independence what will happen, but can it be actually said that...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: ...he knows you will definitely misuse...
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Pusta Krsna: ...you can use your independence properly, it's up to you.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: But then that limits Krsna. If you say that Krsna did not know when I will misuse my indep.... or if I will...
Prabhupada: No, no. That means you do not know what is the independence. You can, you can change your position at any time. That is your independence.
Ramesvara: But doesn't Krsna know if I will do it?
Prabhupada: Yes, because you are independent. That is the meaning.
Ramesvara: Marginal.
Prabhupada: What will the.... That will depend on.... And the result He knows. Just as a lawyer knows that he has done this, criminal, he'll be punished like this. So His position to know the future is always there. Either in this condition or other condition.
Ramesvara: But the lawyer doesn't...
Prabhupada: Why Krsna? Everyone knows. Suppose you have got this body; next body he's a dog. I can say you'll bark.
Ramesvara: Yes.
Prabhupada: What you'll do? That's all. What to speak of Krsna; I can say.
Pusta Krsna: That was Satsvarupa's question, Satsvarupa Maharaja's question.
Prabhupada: No, this is the answer. Krsna's position is always the same. He knows past, present and future.
Ramesvara: This is Karandhara's problem, this point of philosophy. He cannot understand it. His argument is that he is having so much trouble due to his sense attraction. And Krsna gave him the sense attraction, or Krsna gave him senses; now he is having trouble controlling his senses. But he argues that Krsna knows everything, so Krsna knew that he would have trouble controlling his senses; therefore why did Krsna give him senses?
Prabhupada: That is nonsense.
Ramesvara: He says Krsna is playing games.
Prabhupada: I have given you charge of this BBT, millions of dollars you are dealing, but it is not for your misuse. As soon as you misuse, that is your responsibility.
Ramesvara: Yes, but he says but still, you'll know that I'm going to misuse it.
Prabhupada: No. That Krsna knows, when something charge is given. But because you are independent, I know that "Ramesvara is very good boy; let him be in charge." But you can misuse at any moment, because you have got independence. You can misuse at any moment. At that time your position is different. That is this Karandhara's, he was in this position, but as soon as he misused it, immediately, Krsna changed his position.
Ramesvara: He's so foolish, he blames...
Prabhupada: That is our foolishness, that we cannot understand. That is our foolishness. How you can understand Krsna's activities?
Ramesvara: That's the only answer.
Prabhupada: What Krsna is doing.... You are little independent, but He is fully independent. He knows everything. His independence is not under condition; your independence is under condition. If you misuse your independence, you'll suffer.
Ramesvara: His argument is that "I should never be allowed to misuse my independence."
Hari-sauri: There's no question of independence then.
Ramesvara: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is not independence. Independence means you can use properly or improperly.
Ramesvara: He cannot understand that.
Prabhupada: He wants to become a machine.
Ramesvara: Yes, he'd rather be a machine and be in Krsna's service.
Prabhupada: No, no, machine we are, but still there is independence. That means you are not absolutely independently, relatively. The state, you say we are American-independent. But that does not mean you can do whatever you like. As soon as you misuse, you are arrested, punished. Even the president is not independent. As soon as he misused his power, drag him, "Come out." What to speak of you.
Hari-sauri: That's like an impersonalist. He doesn't want any individual existence.
Prabhupada: And he does not agree to be guided by the supreme controller. He does not agree that He is supreme controller. "I am everything." Therefore they are called mudhas, mayayapahrta-jnanah [Bg. 7.15]. Mudha. He's being controlled. As soon as there is some toothache, he goes to the doctor. And he says "I am God." He's becoming old, and he says that "I am God." Why you are becoming old? God is always young.
Ramesvara: He has another argument. He says that he's in the grip of maya.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: So even though he wants to go back to Godhead, he cannot be freed from the influence of maya. Maya is keeping him.
Prabhupada: Unless you are fully surrender, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66], you cannot do it. Maya will not leave you.
Ramesvara: But in order to fully surrender, you have to be free from maya.
Prabhupada: Yes. Maya will keep you freed when you fully surrender. If you surrender to your wife and many women, maya will not give you.
Pusta Krsna: He's thinking freedom without Krsna.
Ramesvara: He says that maya keeps making him full of material desires.
Prabhupada: Yes, maya must keep you, must keep you, must keep you because you are not surrendering fully.
Ramesvara: Then he says that "As long as I have all these material urges, I cannot control them. The maya is insurmountable."
Prabhupada: No. Maya is not.... What maya is? Punishing, that's all.
Hari-sauri: The desire is ours; it's simply either Krsna or maya.
Prabhupada: Therefore you have to rectify your desires. That is bhakti.
Ramesvara: By chanting.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: How do you.... But then he says, "How do you develop the strength to keep chanting even when maya is making you so attracted?"
Prabhupada: That means your chanting is not pure. That is called aparadha. You are thinking that "I am chanting, I am purified," and finding out another woman, illicit sex. Then how you can be purified?
Hari-sauri: One argument a lot of them use is that, er,...
Prabhupada: No. It is prohibited, aparadha. If you chant with aparadha, offenses, then how you can be pure?
Hari-sauri: The process is to follow some rules and regulations, but they say, "How do you get the strength to follow the rules and regulations?"
Prabhupada: That is not your business, that is Krsna's business. You follow Krsna. If you cheat Krsna, then you'll be cheated. That's all. Krsna does not cheat you, but you create a situation to cheat yourself, and maya will make an arrangement so that you are cheated. This is maya's business.
Hari-sauri: So it's a question of honesty.
Prabhupada: Yes. You promise no illicit sex, no, before God, before spiritual master, before fire, and you play hypocrisy. So maya is not seeing that? How you can avoid? maya is always there. Yac caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam. You cannot escape the eyes of God in so many different agencies. And still He is personally sitting within your hearts. How you can escape? You may pretend to be a very great devotee, but the Person, Supreme, He is within yourself, He's seeing everything. No cheating with Him. Namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. "Oh, I am chanting Hare Krsna, so even I do something wrong, it will be adjusted." Adjusted, when you are sincere, by chance you have done something. That can be adjusted. But not intentionally. As soon as there is intentional cheating, that you'll have to suffer the effect.
Pusta Krsna: So someone who is in knowledge and commits sinful activity...
Prabhupada: Then he's...
Pusta Krsna: ...his position is very bad...
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, yes.
Pusta Krsna: ...compared to the innocent person, ignorant person.
Prabhupada: Yes. Daivi hy esa guna-mayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14].
Ramesvara: But then again he argues like this, he says, "The living entity cannot do anything without the sanction of God. So I am desiring certain sinful activities, but why is Krsna sanctioning it?"
Prabhupada: Krsna does not sanction.
Ramesvara: Then how is it going on?
Prabhupada: But you insist, so Krsna, in disgust, says, "All right, do at your own risk. You rascal. You will not hear Me." That's all. I have given this example many times, that my son wanted to touch the table fan. Did I say it?
Ramesvara: I never heard it.
Prabhupada: Oh, so, when he was only two years old, so the table fan was running, and the child, he wants to touch it. So I am: "No, don't touch." So, and he was.... So there was another friend, he was a doctor. He said that "Slow the speed and let him touch." So I did it. So he touched, "Tung." (sound imitation) Then I said, "Touch again?" "No!" (laughter) So it is like that.
Ramesvara: Oh. It is actually Krsna's mercy...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: ...that He allows Him to feel the pain.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: Purifies his desires.
Pusta Krsna: But he doesn't have to feel the pain if he's obedient.
Ramesvara: If he insists.
Prabhupada: He gives instruction. Just like I said, "Don't touch. It will hurt your finger. It is not good." "No, no." "So all right, touch."
Pusta Krsna: You mentioned that the more intelligent person can become obedient by hearing. The less intelligent person has to see, suffer.
Prabhupada: By practical experience. Dekhe sekhe thekhe sekhese. Tekhe sekhese(?) means he's a fool. Unless he comes to the actual position, he does not learn. And therefore sastra-caksus -- one who follows the sastra's instruction, he is safe. That is experienced already. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles

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Dealing With The Envious

Toronto, June 18, 1976

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Satsvarupa: ...professor who's going to see you tonight, Professor O'Connell, he wrote a book review of Dr. Judah's book about our movement. And he said it was a very sympathetic book, Dr. Judah's, he said, and a little bit too sympathetic on one point. He made his statement. He thinks that our movement, the way we deny the flesh, he said, he called, "denying the flesh," it tends to make us a little cold in our relations to each other, and people in the Hare Krsna movement are denying the natural affection that is somehow connected with the flesh.Prabhupada: No, we want to, what is called, reject that society. We cannot become sympathetic with everyone. That is not our policy. Asat-sanga-tyaga vaisnava acara. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, when He was asked what is the general behavior of a Vaisnava, He said that the first thing is that you should give up bad company. So these are bad company. We cannot have any sympathy. We cannot make any compromise with everyone. That is not possible. The modern scientists, they have made quarantine? Quarantine? What is that?
Hari-sauri: Separation.
Prabhupada: Hah.
Hari-sauri: If someone has a disease, they separate.
Prabhupada: Those who are infected, they should be separated. You cannot make any compromise.
Satsvarupa: His point was that even amongst ourselves, even amongst the devotees, he says, there is not enough expression of love, because we don't allow...
Prabhupada: Well, then.... Trying to be perfect.
Satsvarupa: Flesh, skin disease.
Prabhupada: Perfect does not mean that they should eat meat and drink wine. That does not mean. What is his objection?
Satsvarupa: I think what it comes down to is that he objects that we are against illicit sex.
Prabhupada: Oh. (laughter) That means he is accustomed.
Jagadisa: These professors sit around, discuss topics of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and drink wine.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Satsvarupa: And their discussion is very blasphemous. This Dr. Dimmock, he's made much investigation on the Six Gosvamis, and he's read all manuscripts, and he's always going to India and studying Rupa Gosvami and Lord Caitanya, but everything is extremely blasphemous that he writes. So in both ways, in their habits and whatever they write. The Library Party men, they become friendly to these professors, but only to use them more or less, that they'll accept our books, despite themselves.
Prabhupada: Yes, that we must do. [break] ...policy is when we go to a, what is called, a bad character, we don't go to associate with him, but to give him our association. Therefore we must be strong and very pure, so that your association, they will be benefited. For the preachers, isvare tad-adhinesu balisesu dvisatsu, the four behavior. Isvara, tad-adhinesu, devotees, balisesu, innocent, and dvisatsu, those who are envious. So a devotee, those who are preachers, they, prema, loving God, making friendship with devotee, and those who are innocent, to deliver. And those who are envious, reject. [break]
Jagadisa: ...professor, Srila Prabhupada, named Motilal, is a Bengali Vaisnava. But now he drinks and eats meat. [break]
Prabhupada: ...objection of Professor O'Connell?
Satsvarupa: He said that we don't, we deny expression of love through the body. Just like the grhasthas are not allowed, except to have children, to have sex, and brahmacaris, not at all. So by denying, these are natural ways to express love, he says, and by denying them, the people in this movement become somewhat cold and don't have the experience of love.
Prabhupada: Love? This is love or lust?
Satsvarupa: He says there's a definite connection between the flesh and love, and you can't deny it, he said. I argued with him, but that was his viewpoint, that love is expressed through the flesh.
Prabhupada: Then how he has become a doctor in Vaisnava philosophy?
Devotee: He's a sick doctor.
Pusta Krsna: That would mean that the dog is a great lover.
Prabhupada: No, in the Caitanya-caritamrta there is explanation, what is the difference between lust and love.
Satsvarupa: I told him if you observe the devotees, you'll see they have very affectionate loving dealings with one another, but it's not based on the flesh. We don't have to...
Prabhupada: That is lust. Sahajiya. Lust is going on as love. [break] ...reviewed Dr. Judah's book?
Satsvarupa: Yes. Basically, he said it was a good book and that our movement is an important movement. But he made that one objection.
Devotee: Then how does he explain how so many devotees can live together peacefully and happily if there's no reciprocation of love? Materialists can't even live together with their wife for very long.
Pusta Krsna: [break] Srila Prabhupada, they're simply interested in human flesh. They're not concerned about all the animal slaughter that's going on. They don't take objection to the animal slaughter, the animal flesh. But when it comes to the human flesh, because they think they can enjoy, then they take some concern.
Prabhupada: They are taking human flesh also. Gradually they will be accustomed to take human flesh. Carnivore also. [break] ...Mahaprabhu said, asat eka stri-sangi, stri-sangi, those who are attached to woman, he's asat.
Pusta Krsna: [break] The question might arise that a jnani is someone who is aware of his spiritual nature, that he's not this body, aham brahmasmi. Then the karmi is one who is, dehatma-buddhi, in the bodily concept of life, and he's desiring so many materialistic things. So how can it be that the karmi, who is after some material benefit, if he approaches Krsna, he can be better off than the jnani?
Prabhupada: Because he has approached Krsna.
Pusta Krsna: Even he may be in the bodily concept?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. That will be rectified. Ksipram bhavati dharmatma. Huh? What is that? Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati [Bg. 9.31]. Api cet suduracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak [Bg. 9.30]. When one has come to the fire, some way or other, he'll be warm, gradually. That is the.... He has come to the right path. [break] ...kamad bhayat, krodhat. Either.... Anyone who comes to Krsna.... Just like gopis, they were captivated. They were village girls. They did not know what is God, what is Brahman, nothing. But they were captivated: "Krsna is very beautiful boy." That's all. Even they forgot their own husbands. [break] ...or other, we have to develop our intense love of Krsna. Then life is perfect. [break] (in car) One who is accepting this body as self, sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. They are making paper?
Devotee: Tar.
Prabhupada: From tar, you find paper?
Visvakarma: Yes. All different types of packaging have (indistinct) as well.
Pusta Krsna: They keep salt in here for...
Prabhupada: Salt?
Pusta Krsna: When it snows on the highways, trucks come and they pour salt so it keeps the snow melting. More friction on the road for the tires.
Prabhupada: Wine and cigarettes, just like here you can purchase by slot. What is called?
Hari-sauri: Machine.
Prabhupada: Machine. Yes. You pay and get cigarette and tin can. There are many boxes like that on the street, public street. And they pass urine on the road. There is no restriction, standing apart.
Hari-sauri: Like dogs and cats.
Prabhupada: Every few steps, there is a shop, young girls, wine, and a man is sitting.
Hari-sauri: Germany is very famous for its beer festivals. Germany. It's very famous for it's beer festivals.
Prabhupada: Beer. Yes. Sadananda told me. He was drinking beer in barrels. (laughs) He told me.
Hari-sauri: They even have a mug so big that it takes one gallon of beer at a time.
Prabhupada: And they drink.
Hari-sauri: Yes. It's possible in the summer season, one of the big tourist attraction is to go to these big beer festivals. And you can go, they last about a fortnight, one week or a fortnight, and you can travel down the Rhine Valley and move every week to a new beer festival, like that, all through the summer. It's a big tourist thing. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto

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Continue Without Stopping

Paris, August 2, 1976

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Prabhupada: ...apratihata yenatma samprasidati. Yena-atma samprasidati. If you want to please yourself... Everyone is trying to please himself, but here is the formula: yenatma samprasidati. Atma means soul, the Supersoul, the mind and the body also. According to the different position, the atma is accepted in different angles of vision. But on the whole we are searching after bodily comforts, mental peace, and satisfaction of the soul and satisfaction of the Supersoul. So this is the only process. Yato bhaktir adhoksaje. If you engage yourself in devotional service, bhakti, sa vai pumsam paro dharmo... [SB 1.2.6]. And that is the topmost system of religion. There are different religious systems, different parts of the world, of the universe. But the real purpose of religion is yato bhaktir adhoksaje, how to become engaged in the service of the Lord, that is religion. And this service of the Lord cannot be checked. Ahaituky apratihata. It is not that for certain reason one has to engage himself in devotional service. It is spontaneous. And apratihata, without any check. Just like we are sitting down here, there is no check. Anywhere we can sit down. Of course, sometimes the climatic condition different, but there are different climates also. In India we have got almost all the year climate like this, except in the rainy season -- that is also not constantly. Therefore India is supposed to be the best place for developing Krsna consciousness, because the climate is very suitable. So here also, now this climate. It is not conditional, but you can perform service, kirtana, without any check. Not that we have to live in that palace, then we can chant. No. We can live, we can sit down underneath a tree and chant. There is no limit. We can go on. So we have to adjust things in such a way that without any condition, without any check, we can go on with our devotional service. Just like we can sit down here or anywhere. Here is the opportunity. This land is very good. You can sit down anywhere and chant this Hare Krsna maha-mantra. There is no need of chair or cushion or nothing else. Ahaituky apratihata. Any condition. And yenatma samprasidati, that will please your everything -- your heart, your mind, your body, your soul, everything. Yenatma samprasidati. This is the easiest method for achieving the highest perfection of life. So go on with this process without any check and be happy.Thank you very much.
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupada! (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Lecture Excerpt -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm)

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Caitanya Left The West For Me

Nellore, January 4, 1976

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Prabhupada: Indian man: [ ...my weekly visits, that Jyoti Swami showed me that incident at Japan(?), and he asked me, "Have you seen...?"Prabhupada: Dosam icchanti pamarah. Dosam icchanti pamarah. Maksika bhramara icchanti...(?) Maksika, these ordinary flies, they find out where is sore, and the bhramara, he finds out where is honey. Similarly, dosam icchanti pamarah. And the Bhaktivedanta Swami is doing preaching all over the world -- that has not come to his eyes. He has come to the Japanese incident. He has come.
Indian man: Yes, I told him there might be some, in a big organization, such a...
Prabhupada: No, why did you not say, "You are such a pamara that this thing has come to your notice and not other thing"?
Indian man: That I told him. For that he began to say, "No, no, you read my literature. You'll be.... We don't have any envy." I took that also with me, and he gave me.... Next time, when I went, after reading, I said, "How many mistakes are there? Not even a single dot is mistake in other literature, and still you say this literature? And what is new therein? Nothing new."
Prabhupada: Just try to understand that whatever it may be, what is the mentality of these rascals, that "The good things do not come to your notice." If something is bad, "Oh, here is..." You see. Pamarah dosam icchanti gunam icchanti panditah. Saj-jana gunam icchanti dosam icchanti pamarah. That means they are not even a Vaisnava. You see? Vaisnava means paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. Even one has got some fault, a Vaisnava does not see that. He takes the good qualities. But they are not even Vaisnava. Yes. Dosam icchanti pamarah. The mission of Gau..., Caitanya Mahaprabhu, is being preaching all over the.... That does not come to their.... Some Japanese paper has written something -- it has come immediately. Dosam icchanti pamarah. That fool, that he's a.... Here is a pamara, and he's a lowest of the mankind. You can say that "Why this thing has come prominent to your eyes and not the other thing?"
Indian man: No, I did say in my own way, though I did not quote this, that "You are a pamara." I said, "Why..."
Prabhupada: Yes, you can say now, that "That day I forgot to say that you are a pamara. So I have come to say that you are a pamara." (laughter) "I forgot it. Excuse me, I forgot it. So you are pamara."
Indian man: And it is so. As a matter of fact, it is so. And for that, the apology is, "No, no, I do realize that lot of work is being done about that."
Prabhupada: "But because I am pamara, I am finding out this fault." But you have now completed the sentence. "You know lot of things, but because you are pamara, therefore this thing has come prominent."
Indian man: That is the proviso.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the proof that you are a pamara.
Indian man: In my own way, if they challenge us and they are convincing, because to the audience it has to be said. One gosvami, when I said, "Well, this is a movement which I very much like, and like also to join," then he said that -- because I am conducting Gita Bhavan(?) founded by him -- he said, "No, no, no, no. We as a matter of fact champion that cause. But afterwards, when we realized that it is not sampradayic, we have given it up. Therefore..." Then his conduct.... The next day itself, he was not liking me. I have been doing this propaganda, this Gita pravacanam, for the past four years in the organization founded by him. But the very next day, that gosvami, Purusottama Gosvami of Vrndavana...
Yasodanandana: The envious one.
Prabhupada: He has got a camp here?
Yasodanandana: No, in Madras.
Indian man: When he was here it happened. And that devotee's grace.... Then I said, "What is the reason why you say?" "No, no. After all, we are qualified. Those mlecchas..."
Prabhupada: Nobody cares for you. You are so qualified that nobody cares for you.
Tamala Krsna: What did he say?
Yasodanandana: What did he say about mlecchas?
Indian man: Yes, "Why mlecchas, how can they have, after all?" I said, "You yourself were a married person, and..."
Prabhupada: And you did not know that they are not.... If they are mlecchas, then you are naraki. It is said, vaisnave jati-buddhih naraki. Yes. Arcye visnau sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir vaisnave jati-buddhih naraki. Anyone who considers in terms of caste a Vaisnava, he's a naraki. Naraki. Now, just like we go to the temple to see the Deities. Many millions of people are coming, but everyone knows that this is made of stone. But they are going to see the stone?
Indian man: There is God in it.
Prabhupada: Huh? They are going to see the stone? So arcye visnau sila-dhih. Anyone who thinks like that.... Similarly, everyone knows that he is European, he is American, but because he is Vaisnava, one should not see like that, "mleccha." If he sees, then he's naraki.
Yasodanandana: It also proves that they have no faith in the holy name, because the hari-nama purifies everything.
Dhrstadyumna: (aside:) Did that swami show that article to Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yaj-jihvagre nama tubhyam (sic). Aho bata svapa.
Harisauri: (aside:) Did he?
Dhrstadyumna: Maharaja, did you show that article to...?
Prabhupada: Why do you speak in the middle? You should hear. Yaj-jihvagre nama tubham, yan-nama sruti-matrena puman bhavati nirmalah. And this rascals says the nama has no.... See. We have to meet simply rascals all over. The so-called religionists, so-called swamis, so-called yogis, so-called politicians. You see? Simply we have to meet with all rascals.
Indian man: No, he was reminding me of this Jyoti Maharaja showing that article on Krsna Jayanti day to the reading out to the entire audience. That was a rubbish.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, read to the whole audience.
Prabhupada: He was reading?
Indian man: Ah, that is what he reminds me, because I said the incident which I had with him.... On Krsna Jayanti day I did not go there. But on that day it was being read out. That was the silly part of it.
Yasodanandana: So Prabhupada, these same people that...
Prabhupada: So what is the wrong there? What was the wrong?
Indian man: No, he said that "This movement has got these black sheep, and they have been banned in Japan. Everywhere they will be banned."
Prabhupada: But there is something in Japan which is banned. But what you have got in Japan?
Indian man: Nothing.
Yasodanandana: First of all, we are not even banned in Japan. The center is still there.
Prabhupada: No, no, that's all right. Banned means we had something. But what proof you have got that you have done something in Japan?
Indian man: There is something; there is nothing.
Prabhupada: So it is better. Just like one man said that "I have lost fifty thousand this year." His friend said, "You are still fortunate, because you had fifty thousand. But I have no fifty paisa even."
Indian man: So there is something. Here nothing.
Prabhupada: "So you are so fortunate that you could suffer the loss of fifty thousand, but I have nothing to lose."
Indian man: But that is for a discriminating man. Here it is an ignorance, asuya, envy. When Acyutananda Swami was addressing one man (he) said, "Why always have Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna? We can have Hare Christ also." Same answer as Your Holiness gave, he said, "Yes, yes, you can have it. Whoever says.... We don't say no. It is also possible, but degree, matter of degree," as Your Holiness the other day put it. And some chapters and words were read out to the people. They were convinced that same sankirtana is also sanctioned in the Bible.
Prabhupada: We have to follow Caitanya Mahaprabhu or you? Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. So we have to follow Caitanya Mahaprabhu. What is this building?
Tamala Krsna: This is a tuberculosis hospital.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Devotee (2): Prabhupada, they said that if Caitanya Mahaprabhu wanted Krsna consciousness in the Western countries, why didn't He go there Himself? That's what they told us.
Prabhupada: So He left the credit for me. (laughter)
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Prabhupada: He loves His devotee more than Himself.
Harikesa: Why didn't Krsna kill everybody at the Battle of Kuruksetra?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yasodanandana: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Krsna, by His simple desire He could kill. (laughter) He said therefore, bhavisyatvam, prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama, sarvatra pracara haibe. He is leaving the task for somebody else.
Indian man: [break] ...Caitanya-caritamrta, all these things, Swamiji has brought out very vividly. I have read only introduction and some portion only. But what Caitanya Mahaprabhu had ordered, ordained, is taking place. It is very vividly brought out. [break] ...behind using the machinery, cars, airplanes, other things also, I think very convincing, Swamiji, when you say that they are meant only for Krsna's service, and if it is dedicated for that, it is used. Otherwise it is misused, abused.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. That is bhakti. Just like you are walking, some money falls down from your pocket. Then you forgot. And somebody, "Oh, here is some money"; he takes it. And somebody takes it but offers to you. Who is the better man?
Indian man: The person offering.
Prabhupada: Yes. That who takes it and puts in the pocket, he is a thief. And who takes it and offers to you, he is sincere friend. So we can use everything only for Krsna. And therefore we are friend to Krsna. And you are thief. Krsna's property you are using unauthorizedly. Therefore you are a thief.
Devotee (3): [break] The Christians say that God has given us certain things to enjoy. Just like I was talking to one Christian about eating meat, and he said, "Well, I enjoy eating meat."
Prabhupada: So, the tiger will say he will enjoy you. Why do you protest against the tiger?
Acyutananda: In the Bible it says that everything was for the enjoyment of man. Man is sovereign over the animals.
Prabhupada: Enjoyment does not mean that you kill him.
Tamala Krsna: Enjoy means protection. It means protecting, not eating.
Prabhupada: Go-raksya. You protect the cows and take the best food in the world, milk. That is enjoyment. Not foolishly to eat the cow.
Indian man: I am reminded, Swamiji, of one day, the tussle between two Muslims. One happened to be a high-court judge and another Fossil(?), he was always propagating that there should not be animal killed for human purposes and all those things. So on one platform I was the organizer. This high-court judge had been invited, and he began to say animal kingdom is meant for exploitation by human being. And this man flared up: "Where do you get in Koran? You are talking some nonsense, though you are high-court judge." It was a problem for me how to manage this high-court judge, presiding high-court judge, and this man who was a public man. Then he convinced that "Don't say all these things. Where are the passages? In Arabia this eating of goat was a necessity then. That is how it was. Otherwise human beings cannot exploit. You withdraw. Otherwise I will make this meeting a pandemonium." That is how he did it, and he succeeded. (laughter) He succeeded, very same. That Fossil, he succeeded. And this idiot who was appointed by Rajajiv, high-court judge, he could not convince. I said, "Why do you talk about controversial subjects when you do not know?" But he was a presiding judge. He thought, "Whatever I talk is sense." That chief justice asked me, "How have I spoken?" So he wanted certificate from me afterwards. I said that "If that incarnation of (indistinct), if you should have left, that would have been better. You did very well with regard to your experiences about this movement and the..., at Chicago and all those, but you dabbled with thinking that this is something original."
Yasodanandana: All of those speakers are very eager to give credit to Vivekananda, but he has not done anything. Prabhupada has done the most. They cannot see properly, all these speakers.
Tamala Krsna: No one knows Vivekananda in America.
Indian man: Accha?
Tamala Krsna: No one has ever heard his name.
Prabhupada: No, it is not that no one has heard, but they are working for the last eighty-five years. What they have done?
Tamala Krsna: They only have about four or five temples, centers in America. There is no Deity established in the temples, only some big...
Prabhupada: Now recently they have established one temple of Ramakrishna in Vrndavana. Nobody goes there. Nobody goes there.
Yasodanandana: It is simply a hospital.
Tamala Krsna: What is the Deity?
Indian man: They have taken up social work, isn't it? Everybody. Swamiji, I am now reminded. A few weeks back I was invited to Raj Bhavan. I went as an invitee of an invitee. And that Madhuben Shah(?) began to wax eloquent because he happened to be the president of the world union. And they said, "Oh, we want to integrate the entire world, and the emotion and gradation, all those things." And they invited the views of Aryans, of twenty-five persons. All spoke. I did not speak. I kept quiet. Somebody said, "Here is a person who really knows." I said, "I am sick of this talk.... [ And why should we have another organization for the same purpose?" Then I said, "But anyhow, I don't know. If Krsna..." Nowadays I use that...
Prabhupada: [break] There is Theosophical Society?
Yasodanandana: Yes, all over the world, international.
Prabhupada: [break] ...started from here?
Indian man: It was started. Madras center and there in America.
Prabhupada: [ ...come from the other side. [break] ...registering this association, some friend suggested, "Why don't you make it 'God consciousness'?" And "No, 'Krsna conscious.' If I bring God consciousness, they will bring so many gods."
Indian man: And another question reply was also very convin..., that all other are gods, but He is Godhead. That is very clinching expla.... Some of these things are really direct replies.
Prabhupada: And actually that is fact.
Indian man: This was.... Even Acyutananda said the other day. Somebody asked us that question, "Why not 'God conscious'? Why do you want 'Krsna'?" He also said the same thing. [break] "What is the difference between thieving the butter and other things by Lord Krsna and thieving by us?" I said "The thieving is thieving." I said, "How can there be theft of..." [break]
Prabhupada: And if you steal, you will be beaten with shoes.
Indian man: We are beaten with shoes, but He is allowed.
Prabhupada: Not only allowed, but He is worshiped: "Sir, it is very kind of You that You have stolen."
Indian man: That is what.... In forensic language it is called abet, abetted. The very owner abets, "It is kind of you to have committed theft of this." (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore

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Brain Is Already Created

Mayapura, March 17, 1976

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Prabhupada: [break] ...just decorate green leaves and yellow flower. By chance? Rascals say, "By chance." It is coming by chance? Just see. Show me anything within your experience which has come by chance. Anything, whatever you like, show me, come by chance, which has come by chance.Hrdayananda: I can say.... "Yes, I was, became sick by chance."
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hrdayananda: "I became sick by chance."
Prabhupada: No, no. Then again you are rascal. You infected some disease. Then you became sick. There is no chance.
Guru-krpa: The other day, Srila Prabhupada, I went in the shower, and I turned on the shower, and the thing broke and hit me on the head. It was chance.
Prabhupada: Yes, because you are rascal, therefore it hit you.... (laughter)
Guru-krpa: So it was chance.
Prabhupada: It was not chance. You are a rascal, and you were hit on the head.... (laughs) That is not chance. The cause is your rascalism. So you cannot find out anything by chance. Madhudvisa Maharaja, you can find out anything by chance? This is simply rascaldom, chance theory.
Panca-dravida: What about...? What about gambling, Prabhupada? Somebody wins; somebody loses. That's by chance.
Prabhupada: That is not chance.
Madhudvisa: They would say, "Everything is by chance." You say green, yellow flower with green leaf. So.... But through evolution there has been so many other combinations. Now we're just...
Prabhupada: But then evolution is the cause. Then evolution is the cause. How you can say "chance"?
Madhudvisa: No, it's just many, many different combinations. Now you are seeing the yellow and green...
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Madhudvisa: ...so you are appreciating.
Prabhupada: There is a process in the evolution. Therefore you find. You cannot say it's chance.
Panca-dravida: Well the evolution happens by chance.
Prabhupada: No.
Trivikrama: Just like he said. All the trees are growing up, not one going this way, not by chance one is...
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Nothing by chance. It is a wrong theory.
Satsvarupa: If you throw dice, they may come up in one...
Prabhupada: Then dice becomes cause? Chance?
Satsvarupa: Well, what causes it to be seven or eleven or another number?
Panca-dravida: Chance.
Prabhupada: Not chance. You do not know. Therefore you say.
Hrdayananda: Ah! Because they don't know, they say "chance."
Trivikrama: That's right, because I don't know, ignorant.
Prabhupada: Yes. They want to cover their ignorance by this theory, "chance." They want to become very intelligent by chance. That is their.... That is not the fact. For intelligence you have to learn from a superior person. It cannot be done by chance. Who has become learned scholar by chance? There is none.
Pusta Krsna: Because that is sudra philosophy, this chance philosophy.
Prabhupada: Yes. Everyone has to work very hard, pass examination, and then he becomes an educated man. Where is by chance one has become learned?
Panca-dravida: What about two people born in the same circumstance? Each has equal education and equal background, but one becomes rich and one remains poor. That's chance.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the fate. Fate is the cause, destiny. Otherwise, so many people are working hard. Why not everyone is becoming rich by chance? Kalena sarvatra gabhira-ramhasa. This is the instruction in the Bhagavatam. Tal labhyate duhkhavad anyatah sukham. There are two things -- happiness and distress -- and they are being controlled by the time. You have infected some disease. In time, it will come out, manifested, and the doctor say, "Oh, you infected this disease. Take this injection." The time factor. It.... You have to wait to see the result. It is not chance. As soon as you do something, immediately the reaction begins. But you do not see the result immediately, but wait and you'll find. Yes.
Madhudvisa: So we say that everything has a cause.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: But then we have causeless mercy. So would that be chance?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Madhudvisa: We have also causeless mercy, meeting the pure devotee. Is that a chance?
Prabhupada: No. I.... We don't accept that chance. The causeless is a mercy. Causeless mercy is the cause.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. The mercy is the cause.
Prabhupada: The mercy may be causeless, but the mercy is the cause.
Madhudvisa: But the which is the cause?
Pusta Krsna: The mercy is the cause.
Tamala Krsna: That's a cause.
Pusta Krsna: You did nothing to deserve it, but it's caused your good fortune.
Trivikrama: Jaya.
Satsvarupa: That poet from Ireland asked you, Srila Prabhupada, when you were in Rome. He said, "I want to know who told God all that He knows, because..."
Prabhupada: What is that?
Satsvarupa: He asked, "Who.... Who has informed God of all knowledge? Everyone has to learn from someone." So he said, "Who informed God?"
Trivikrama: Then Prabhupada said, "First you have to know what God means."
Satsvarupa: Yes, that He's svarat.
Prabhupada: I think that poet was convinced.
Trivikrama: Yes. He admitted that he was confused.
Pusta Krsna: This philosophy pervades all of modern science.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Pusta Krsna: This chance theory.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: They say that "By chance, after some time..."
Prabhupada: Because they have finished their science. They have researched and done so many years now, their scientific knowledge is liquidated. Now they are giving this chance theory, therefore, because they cannot explain anything. That's all. Their vidya buddhi is finished. That is the problem now. For the scientists, it is a problem now. Now, so far their limited knowledge is concerned, they have done everything, discovered everything. Now there is no scope of working and discovering. That is the position of the scientists.
Panca-dravida: So they should come to you.
Prabhupada: Well, that is another thing. Rut this is their actual position. Now their position is how to bluff and get money, because talk is finished. Now bluffing stock is now finished. Now they have to give theories like this "chance" and make big, big words, jugglery.
Tamala Krsna: Why don't they make research into consciousness?
Prabhupada: What they'll be finished? Whatever their limited knowledge they possess, that is finished now. They have no scope.
Tamala Krsna: They should look to the field of consciousness.
Dharmadhyaksa: They are doing it now, but they are studying the brain. They think the brain is the source of consciousness. So they study people...
Prabhupada: So wherefrom the brain came? What they'll answer?
Dharmadhyaksa: Well, it has evolved.
Prabhupada: Again by chance. "Brain became by chance." That means failure of their stock.
Dharmadhyaksa: I heard one professor in Berkeley...
Prabhupada: You, you prepare brain, or keep something that by chance there will be a brain.
Tamala Krsna: Make a monkey's brain by chance.
Yasodanandana: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, in one of your purports, you mention that great scientists like Einstein, Newton and Chandra Bose had such great brains, but who has created their brain?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yasodanandana: This is a very clever argument of Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Yasodanandana: That they will not research.
Prabhupada: We are appreciating the brain of big, big scientist. But who has created that brain? No appreciation. Just see how fool they are. You cannot create that brain. You create another contemporary brain like that big, big man. Even that big man cannot. The big men, before dying, he should have considered, "Now I'll die now. Let me create another brain like me, and that will work." That they cannot do.
Panca-dravida: So they think chance.
Prabhupada: So there must be third man, third brain who has created. You cannot do it.
Yasodanandana: There is actual proof, Prabhupada, that when these scientists and great, so-called poets, when they die, refusing to admit the authority of God, they die a very terrible death. Just like in France there used to be a great philosopher named Voltaire, and at the end of his life, because his whole writings and existence he tried to disprove the existence of God, he went insane, and he was eating his own stool and urine. And a priest came to him and said, "Why don't you accept the existence of God? You have become such great poet." He said, "I will never accept the existence of God." But he became to the point where he was eating his own stool and urine.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Yasodanandana: This has been recorded...
Prabhupada: This is the punishment, yes. Punishment there is always. But they are so stubborn fools still.
Dharmadhyaksa: Prabhupada, the one great brain researcher, he spent nineteen years searching for the memory in the brain.
Prabhupada: There is a story that two friends talking that, on the point that "How this was cut, separated?" So one friend said, "It is by knife." And the other friend said, "No, it was by scissor." So they went on.... One said, "No! It is knife." He said, "No! It is scissor." So the knife man was very strong. So he took him to the water, that "You say it is knife. Otherwise I shall drown you." (laughter) So he said, "I'll never say." Then he said.... When he was drowning, he was doing like this, (Prabhupada gesticulates) (laughter) "Scissor, scissor." When he was actually drowned and he had no other means to say, then he was doing like this: "It is scissor. It is scissor." This is their argument. However punished they may be, they'll do this. (laughter)
Madhudvisa: [break] ...that you are too impatient.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Madhudvisa: They will say that you are too impatient. We see that in all science there's been a natural progression. Now they have.... In the test tube they have made some tissues, and the tissues are sustaining themselves and are living. So in due course, they'll be able to create some functioning brain.
Prabhupada: Then what is the use of your creation? It is already created. Why you are, rascal, working? Why?
Madhudvisa: We can create a better brain.
Prabhupada: No.
Madhudvisa: By our scientific endeavor.
Prabhupada: You cannot do even a lesser. How you can expect to do...?
Trivikrama: Post-dated check again.
Prabhupada: Again the same.
Madhudvisa: But you must give us some time because we are working hard...
Prabhupada: I shall. I shall give you kick. (laughter) I shall give you kick. And no time. I shall give you kick.
Madhudvisa: Well that's not very scientific.
Prabhupada: No. It is scientific. You are a stubborn.... "Scissor philosophy."
Dharmadhyaksa: Most brain researchers admit they could never create a brain.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dharmadhyaksa: Most brain scientists will admit they could never make a brain. Too difficult.
Hrdayananda: Scissor philosophy.
Tamala Krsna: Scissor philosophy.
Hrdayananda: Scissor philosophy and the frog philosophy.
Dharmadhyaksa: [break] ...something else.
Prabhupada: Just see. They.... At last, they'll accept: "Yes, I foolish. Yes."
Hamsaduta: Then they get a prize.
Prabhupada: So if I say from the beginning that "You are foolish," I am helping him because he has to admit at the end that he's a foolish.
Dharmadhyaksa: He was one of the biggest brain researchers. He had to admit there was a mind, there was something else other than the brain.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: When I was in America, I got one report. One person was telling me they had read of this person. It shows the limit..., how unlimited one can eat anything. This one man, he has, he has been for twenty years eating an automobile. He takes the different parts of the automobile, grinding it down, and daily eats different parts of it.
Prabhupada: Accha? Just see. Madman. There is iron, metal. He was eating?
Tamala Krsna: He's eating by grinding it very finely into powder. He's.... His program is to consume one entire automobile-tires, windshield, everything.
Dharmadhyaksa: Just so he'll become famous.
Prabhupada: And how he'll live?
Tamala Krsna: Apparently he takes a little enough quantity that it doesn't disturb. And it's ground down very finely into powder.
Trivikrama: He eats other stuff too.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, he eats other things also, meat.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Guru-krpa: I talked to one lady. She was daily eating one glass of dirt.
Prabhupada: Who?
Guru-krpa: Soil. One lady was eating soil, one glass, saying it was good for health.
Tamala Krsna: I think the goat, the animal, the goat, they eat cans. They can eat metal.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. The pigeons, they can eat stone.
Pusta Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, you once explained how the cow eats grass, and it produces such a rich vitamin food like milk.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: So you asked me the question, "Is there vitamins in the grass?" And obviously there's not such vitamins in grass that it produces milk. So the vitamins are coming from Krsna? Yes?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because if you eat grass, considering that there is vitamins -- "There is indeed" -- then you'll die.
Tamala Krsna: Of course, Karttikeya Mahadeviya...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Tamala Krsna: Mr. Mahadeviya, he might talk upon this point-wheat grass.
Panca-dravida: But cows aren't all eating wheat grass.
Prabhupada: Cows are eating grass, dry grass, and giving you nice milk. Now, if you eat it -- "There is vitamins. Let me eat" -- you'll die. So who made this arrangement?
Guru-krpa: They may argue, though, that even women give milk after there's baby, and they eat all sorts of things.
Prabhupada: They eat grass?
Guru-krpa: They eat meat. They eat fish. They are making milk also.
Prabhupada: Milk is there, but it is not that it is due to eating such and such.
Panca-dravida: Yeah, that doesn't prove anything.
Prabhupada: Yes. Milk is there.
Balavanta: If a woman doesn't drink cow's milk, she can't make other milk.
Madhudvisa: No, they will say that if the cow is fed, given good feed, then the milk is better.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Madhudvisa: If the cow is given good feed, then the milk is much better.
Prabhupada: No, that I.... That I admit. But one thing is that you practically see the cow is eating dry grass and giving you full of vitamins milk. So that does not mean that dry grass is the cause of vitamins? Otherwise you could eat also the dry grass instead of purchasing vitamin pills. Your country is very much fond of vitamin pills. You eat grass. Why you are after vitamin pills? Hm? Saurabha Prabhu? You can take vitamin pills with grass?
Dharmadhyaksa: Srila Prabhupada, we saw a science film in Stanford, and one process of protein synthesis they called "The Magic Factor."
Prabhupada: Again, that cau...
Dharmadhyaksa: They didn't...
Prabhupada: Chance. Magic is also a chance.
Dharmadhyaksa: So that must have been the Krsna factor.
Guru-krpa: Everything else but Krsna. Magic.
Prabhupada: [break] You see the tree, coconut tree, the hard nut and the water. Now, according to scientific idea, there must be pipe, there must be pumping and there must be water. Then you can raise the water. But where is such, such things? How the water is coming?
Panca-dravida: To the tree?
Prabhupada: Yes, on the top, so high. There is no pipe. There is no pump, nothing. You do it. Instead of calling a plumber, you do something that the water will come in this tank.
Devotee (2): Well, they will say that the roots of the tree is bringing the water up.
Prabhupada: That is a nonsense. You make such root and bring water here. Then your scientific knowledge will be proved. But you cannot do it. Can you do it? We are spending so much money for bringing water. Bring that root and bring water.
Madhudvisa: We have done better. We can do it faster. Within, within a few minutes we can bring so much water here. You must...
Prabhupada: But if I don't pay you, you'll starve. You'll never be able to do it if I don't pay you.
Madhudvisa: Well, we have money. So we have become more...
Prabhupada: No, you have no money. You have not money. Therefore you are working on my order. You have no money. You have no money.
Madhudvisa: I know.
Prabhupada: I know it.
Radhavallabha: Srila Prabhupada, there was one story in the magazine National Geographic of a valuable diamond, the Hope Diamond, the most valuable in the world, that was stolen from a deity of Sita-devi. So every single person that has ever gotten the diamond has been killed.
Prabhupada: Sita-devi?
Radhavallabha: Yes, a deity of Sita-devi. They stole the diamond from this deity in India.
Prabhupada: When?
Radhavallabha: Many years ago.
Guru-krpa: This diamond is in the Washington...
Radhavallabha: Yes. Smithsonian.
Guru-krpa: ...Institute. Washington, D.C. The biggest diamond in the world.
Radhavallabha: Anyone that's ever stole it's been killed. Everyone is very much afraid now. They can't understand why everyone is dying that has taken the diamond.
Tamala Krsna: Stolen?
Trivikrama: Stolen from India?
Prabhupada: No.... Oh.
Gurudasa(?): Ravana's. Who stole it?
Madhudvisa: The largest diamond in the world?
Prabhupada: Well, the Britishers, they stolen so many diamonds from India.
Trivikrama: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Trivikrama: The whole British Museum.
Prabhupada: Yes. Whole British Museum means stolen properties from many countries, that's all, especially in India.
Yasodanandana: Prabhupada, I have heard that previously in India, some pandita says, that when they used to put the jewels on the Deities they used to put some mantra that, when they install the Deity, that "Whoever takes this mantra will never be able to have peace or will die," some curse mantras.
Yasodanandana: Whoever steals the jewels.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is possible.
Radhavallabha: Even just recently they were laughing at this curse, and they took the jewel from Sita-devi in their car to go to the museum, and their car crashed on the way.
Panca-dravida: Did they die?
Radhavallabha: No, they didn't die. A severe crash, though.
Prabhupada: Don't you think the whole British nation is now ruined?
Tamala Krsna: That has crashed.
Prabhupada: What do you want more? "But he has not suffered. He has simply died." This is the argument. He has suffered. But "No, no, there was no suffering. He has simply died." What is the more suffering than death? [break]
Panca-dravida: When somebody is dying and his external consciousness is completely absorbed in all kinds of terrible bodily symptoms, how is it that a devotee remembers Krsna? What is actually happening that he's able to remember Krsna?
Prabhupada: Devotee generally remembers Krsna. But even if he cannot, Krsna will help him.
Devotees: Oh.
Prabhupada: That is guarantee. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati [Bg. 9.31]. Because he is devotee, for material condition he could not remember, but Krsna remembers, "Yes," that "he has done so much for Me."
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, otherwise...
Pusta Krsna: Otherwise, it's just mechanical.
Tamala Krsna: Mechanical
Prabhupada: No. That is.... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that.... He was giving the condition. Then, when Arjuna was little disturbed, so He said immediately, "Arjuna, you have no fear." Did you not read this portion?
Panca-dravida: Then.... Then that verse, yam yam vapi smaran bhavam [Bg. 8.6], is for...
Prabhupada: Yes, that is general. But a devotee, because Krsna has taken charge of him, even he does not remember Krsna, still, Krsna is there.
Trivikrama: "I carry what you lack..."
Jayapataka: Krsna said, "I am the cause of remembrance and forgetfulness."
Prabhupada: Yes. Generally devotee dies remembering Krsna, generally. But even if for material condition he cannot, then Krsna is taken charge.
Panca-dravida: What was the arrangement with Bharata Maharaja?
Prabhupada: And there is no question of hopelessness, no. We have to do our duty very seriously. Then everything is all right.
Panca-dravida: So with Bharata Maharaja, that was special arrangement?
Prabhupada: No. It was.... It was punishment. He became so much, I mean, attached with the animal that he forgot his duty in devotional service. That is stated. Forgot. He neglected. Therefore he was punished, but he remembered that "I did it." You cannot neglect your duty. Then Krsna is always with you. [break] ...way, a soldier is dying in duty, immediately the government takes charge of the whole family. So that is.... Why not Krsna? [break] ...krsna visvasa palana. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said. You know this song? Avasya raksibe krsna visvasa palana.
Jayapataka: "If one maintains his faith, then Krsna..."
Prabhupada: Ah! Yes. One should maintain his faith that "Krsna will give me protection. And my duty is to serve Him." That's it.
Panca-dravida: When it says in the sastra that a hundred generations past and future of a devotee, they're liberated, what kind of liberation do they get?
Devotees: Fourteen.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Panca-dravida: What kind of liberation does the family get of a pure devotee?
Pusta Krsna: One who becomes a devotee, the statement is that fourteen generations of his family, past, present and future, become liberated. So what kind of liberation does the family members of a pure Vaisnava get?
Prabhupada: Liberation means -- that is explained by Caitanya Mahaprabhu -- to become devotee. That is liberation. To become.... To become a devotee is itself liberation. [break] ...will come. Prasadam? Is there any such arrangement or not? They are coming. They should be offered some...
Pusta Krsna: You mentioned the pots of halava.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta Krsna: The pots of halava. I inquired about it, and they said that semolina is very difficult to get now, that the government has only allotted some eighty pounds of semolina to be purchased.
Prabhupada: No, it doesn't matter, but give him prasadam, other prasadam. (aside:) Hare Krsna. [break] ...halava with powdered dahl or...
Panca-dravida: Powdered dahl. They could use whole wheat flour?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Panca-dravida: Whole wheat flour, they could use in?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Devotee (3): ...in right proportions. (boys shout)
Prabhupada: What they say? What is the quarrel? [break] ...nice, South Indian. Oh, very nice. How many seats are there?
Devotee (4): Say about four(?) seats. Prabhupada, four devotees went from Hyderabad, going through Orissa and coming to Mayapura for the festival.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Devotee (4): Going about five, six months, they have traveled all over.
Prabhupada: Many people assembled on the way?
Devotee (4): Yes, because they were stopping in every village and distributing literature, giving away prasadam.
Prabhupada: Hm. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. (pause) Hm. It is dirty.
Tamala Krsna: Very much dust.
Radhavallabha: Thousands of people went through last night.
Madhudvisa: I don't think we can prevent that, Srila Prabhupada. So much traffic.
Tamala Krsna: Foot traffic. I think it should be dusted off.
Radhavallabha: The whole display will be cleaned this morning.
Pusta Krsna: [break] Tokyo, Japan, and Philadelphia.
Balavanta: That's Philadelphia.
Radhavallabha: That was when you were there, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Oh. Oh, yes. (pause) Therefore our mission is to bring Mayapura everywhere.
Devotee (5): Jaya.
Prabhupada: This is the greatest peace movement, to bring peace to the suffering humanity.
Hamsaduta: If a devotee thinks that he likes, for example, Vrndavana more than he likes Mayapura, is that a wrong thinking, or is that his personal...?
Prabhupada: There is no difference. Gauda-mandala-bhumi, yeba jane cintamani.
Hamsaduta: Just like some devotees, they worship Rama, and some worship Krsna. It is like that?
Prabhupada: They know there is no difference from Vrndavana. They are not so fool...
Hamsaduta: Not so...
Prabhupada: (Bengali) (end)

 

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Bodily Spirituality Exposed

Mayapura, January 2, 1976

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Prabhupada: [break] ...fire, explain.Harikesa: Oh, because people can't see life in fire, they think there's no life in it, so therefore there's no life in the sun. But it's just like the Tata factory. When you see it from a distance there's many planes and fires, but inside there's many people who are working. Therefore just because you can't see life in fire doesn't mean it's not there. We see life in the earth, we see life in the water, we see life in the air, so why not in the fire? Is that all right?
Prabhupada: Now question, answer.
Tamala Krsna: Well, one question is that the people in the Tata factory are not actually in the fire.
Prabhupada: So they are also not in the fire. I say even if it is in the fire, there is no harm because the living soul is not burned to fire. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Adahyo 'yam. Dahya. Dahya means burned. It is not burned. These are wrong conception. Because they have no conception of the soul, they think bhasmi bhutasya dehasya: "When the body is burned, then the soul is also burned." If the soul is burned, then where is the question of tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]? How? In the Hindu system they burn the body. So if the soul is also burned, then where is punar janma? You?
Tamala Krsna: We can accept that the soul is not burned, but what about the body?
Prabhupada: Body is burned.
Tamala Krsna: So how can any body live in the sun?
Prabhupada: So they are.... No, if.... They have got fiery body. As your body is made of earth, the fish body is made of water, and the so many others, different elements, so similarly, there the body is made of earth..., er, fire, fiery body. The so-called scientist, educationist, they.... Everything they conclude according to his own position. Therefore avajananti mam mudhah [Bg. 9.11]. They think Krsna also "like me."
Acyutananda: The fish is in the water, but the fish is not water.
Prabhupada: No, fish is not water, but he has got a body suitable for the water.
Acyutananda: So the people on the sun have earthly bodies...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Acyutananda: ...who can tolerate heat.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is no heat. They live.... Just like.... They are not suffocated. They don't feel any inconvenience. They enjoy. Against the waves they enjoy. You cannot go against the waves. They can go, even small fish. You'll find within this there are so many animals, so many. How they are living?
Acyutananda: Also science cannot explain how it is burning. Where is the fuel supply?
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes.
Acyutananda: And there is no smoke, no waste.
Prabhupada: Nothing. They are all.... Therefore we say simply "rascals." We have given this title to them everlastingly. All rascals, mudha. Mudho nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam. How Krsna is working, they do not know. This is Bay of Bengal. Other side is Burma. [break] ...are so strong, it will never be drowned. Eh? (Hindi) The scientist says there is no life. Just disagree with them.
Acyutananda: No life?
Prabhupada: Scientists, yes, they say there is no life in the sun.
Acyutananda: In the sun.
Prabhupada: No, they say in every planet there is no life.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, only the earth planet.
Acyutananda: Well, they have to qualify. They say, "life as we know it."
Prabhupada: Hm?
Acyutananda: They say, "There is no life as we know it," but there's some forms of life that they don't know.
Prabhupada: So, but no, no. "As we know," but what do you know? You are rascal.
Devotee: They are trying by radio waves to reach people.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Sarva-ga, this word is. Sarva-ga. Jivatma (Hindi)...
Devotee: [break] ...sending radio signals to faraway galaxies.
Prabhupada: What is the meaning of their radios? Do you think that their radios are perfect? Do you think so? What, Acyutananda Maharaja? Radio perfect? It is not perfect.
Acyutananda: And I think the demigods and higher beings, they can disturb all their radio attempts.
Prabhupada: No, apart from that...
Acyutananda: Because they don't want trespassers.
Prabhupada: ...how you can accept their radio machine are perfect? Because it is made by imperfect person, so how it can be perfect? If the manufacturer is imperfect, how he can make perfect machine? Nothing is perfect.
Acyutananda: Actually the United States government has a whole agency for unidentified flying objects that people have seen that they keep secret so as not to frighten the whole America thinking that visitors from other planets will come. But there are many incidents of pilots who fly around in airplanes, who see other strange-looking objects coming at them, flying at them, or people from the ground have seen many.
Devotee: One guy testified that he was picked up and taken away for four days.
Acyutananda: Well, that was...
Prabhupada: What they are? They are police? No. Mounted police?
Acyutananda: Yes, mounted police.
Prabhupada: A mounted police here?
Acyutananda: Saber. Sword.
Devotee: Oh, it's a stick.
Acyutananda: Oh, yes, lathi, made like a stick. Yes.
Prabhupada: [break] Why they are guarding here?
Acyutananda: I think for the horses.
Tamala Krsna: They're exercising the horse.
Acyutananda: [break] ...house in Bengali. Is this where Swami Vivekananda...
Prabhupada: Yes. After coming back from foreign countries, he made his position here in Madras.
Tamala Krsna: Beautiful building.
Acyutananda: In Calcutta we have a life member, Veni Sankara Sharma? You stayed at his house?
Prabhupada: Hm, yes.
Acyutananda: So he wrote a book called An Unknown Chapter of the Life of Swami Vivekananda. And in there he openly says that he smoked a hookah and ate meat.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is known to everyone.
Tamala Krsna: Was he praising that?
Acyutananda: It was.... You know...
Yasodanandana: In Hyderabad there is a cook who used to cook for the Ramakrishna Mission, and he said they used to cook any kind of meat.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Acyutananda: I said, "Did you ever cook human meat?" He said, "If they told me, I would have done that also." There was nothing beyond their diet. "Anything they told me to cook..."
Prabhupada: This building belongs to Vivekananda's society, no? Vivekananda house.
Tamala Krsna: What is that?
Acyutananda: That's Bengali. "The house of Vivekananda."
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Acyutananda: They say Swami Vivekananda walked barefoot all over India at some stage of his...
Prabhupada: Hm?
Acyutananda: That.... This statue here is his life as a wandering sadhu.
Prabhupada: Who is a sadhu? Then question is, who is a sadhu? Who is a sadhu? You cannot say?
Acyutananda: One who is Krsna conscious.
Prabhupada: Api cet sudaracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak, sadhur eva sa mantavyah [Bg. 9.30]. Unless one is cent percent Krsna conscious, he is not a sadhu. Sadhu-bhusana.
titiksavah karunikah
suhrdah sarva-bhutanam
ajata-satravah santah
sadhavah sadhu-bhusanah
 [SB 3.25.21]
This is sadhu.
Yasodanandana: This is the vehicle in which we travel.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Yasodanandana: This vehicle is the vehicle in which we travel to all the different cities for making the life members and arranging all the programs in South India, this vehicle.
Prabhupada: This is your own?
Yasodanandana: We are renting.
Prabhupada: When I was in South Africa...
Indian man (1): South Africa.
Prabhupada: Yes, Johannesburg. This beach reminds me of that beach. You were with me?
Harikesa: Yes.
Prabhupada: All statues are crying here.
Acyutananda: This is Annie Besant.
Prabhupada: [break] ...avatara here, and she also came from Ireland to become avatara here.
Acyutananda: I heard how she became interested in the Gita. She was Christian, and her infant died. So she asked priests, "Where will this soul go, to heaven or hell? And why? Because he hasn't done anything." So she was never satisfied with their answers. So then she heard that there is transmigration of the soul. Then she became interested in the Gita, India.
Prabhupada: So did she understand?
Acyutananda: Well, only up to transmigration of the soul.
Prabhupada: She admits.
Acyutananda: Yes. [break]
Prabhupada: It was open? If there are any doubt. [break]
Indian man (2): ...all practical things...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian man (2): ...political things. Two and two will always be four. But we people don't agree so far.
Prabhupada: Yes. You want five.
Indian man (2): (laughter) We want five, correct. Four to make it five.
Prabhupada: There is a story that a grocer's son was doing business, and when he was given a five-rupees' note, so he was giving four rupees. So the customer said, "Why you are giving me four rupees?" "No, I do not know what is the exchange." "No, it is six rupees." So "No, father will be angry." (laughter) Means he knows perfectly well what is five rupees, but he is innocent when he was giving four rupees. And when the customer wanted six rupees, he, "No, my father will be angry." [break] ...created a havoc by misinterpreting Bhagavad-gita, all people. According to their wish, "Five-rupees note means four rupees," by imagination. They have created havoc all over the world. Otherwise everything is there. Avajananti mam mudhah [Bg. 9.11]. If we take Krsna's instruction, then whole world becomes immediately happy. But they will not take it. They will manufacture their own, two plus two equal to five or three, not exactly the four.
Indian man (3): So all anxiety and duhkha have been created by the man himself.
Prabhupada: Yes. They have created.
Indian man (3): Nobody else is doing for him, but he created himself.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian man (3): And then he said, "I am in misery. I am in trouble." Trouble is created by you. Nobody has created.
Prabhupada: So that is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, that mind is the enemy and mind is the friend. So we created our mind, enemy or friend, and we suffer for that.
Indian man (3): Mind is very, very powerful. How to make use of that? Actually mind is using the man; man is not using his mind.
Prabhupada: In the Bhagavata it is said, yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah. In another line...
Harikesa: Harav abhakta?
Prabhupada: Eh? Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna mano-rathenasato dhavato bahih [SB 5.18.12]. One who is Krsna conscious, he has got all the good qualities. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunaih: "All good qualities can be manifest." And harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-gunah: "And one who is not devotee, he has no good qualities." "Why? He is so educated." No, mano-rathena: "He is hovering over the mind." Asato dhavato bahih: "He will stick to this asat." But the Vedic injunction is asato ma sad gamaya. He cannot go to the real platform of life. Asato bahih. They do not understand that this godless civilization is the root cause of all calamities in the world. (Hindi) Kirtaniyah sada harih. The Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that kirtaniyah sada harih. Twenty-four hours you have to do that. But where is twenty-four hours? You will not twenty-four minutes. (Hindi)
trnad api sunicena
taror api sahisnuna
amanina manadena
kirtaniyah sada harih
 [Cc. Adi 17.31]
(Hindi) ...Nectar of Instruction. I have recently published. (Hindi) There were no book for sale?
Indian man (4): Book was not in sale yesterday.
Mahamsa: That book is not available in India, Prabhupada.
Acyutananda: It's a brand new book.
Prabhupada: No, no, other books, they are not...
Mahamsa: Other books were there. They were on the book table. There was a book table.
Indian man (4): Where it is?
Mahamsa: Many people were purchasing books. (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Prominent place. (Hindi) Keep in prominent place so that others can see. And any book which is not in stock, you can note down his order so that you can send him later on.
Indian man (5): He will come every day.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian man (5): Mostly he approaching every member.
Prabhupada: No, recently we have published very important book, Nectar of Instruction. For common man it is very nice. [ Yesterday's lecture you liked?
Indian men: Yes. (Hindi) [break]
Dhrstadyumna: ...sleep on the streets. They've arranged this housing, it is very minimal. So what many of these slumdwellers do when people are living on the streets is they come here, and they go back and live on the streets, but they rent out the apartment that the government has given them and they keep the money. They go back and live on the streets.
Indian man (1): This houses? This is all rented by the government and given free of charge to the poor to clear the slums.
Prabhupada: Therefore Bhagavata says,
tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido
na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah
tal labhyate duhkhavad anyatah sukham
kalena sarvatra gabhira ramhasa
 [SB 1.5.18]
(Hindi) So three classes of men are there: upper class, middle class. You cannot change it. It is laws of nature.
Indian man (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Just like Vivekananda philosophy, daridra-narayana. (Hindi) How you can change this? (Hindi) First duty is, first of all enlighten them with knowledge. That is required, not by external bodily comforts. (end)

 

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A World Run By Mad Rascals

Teheran, August 9, 1976

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Prabhupada: ...given to the modern scientist one proposal, egg proposal. You explain.Hari-sauri: That if the scientist are so expert then they should be able to back up their claim of life coming from chemicals. Then why can't they produce an egg which will give life? They can take some chemicals and make the white, and take some little coloring to make it yellow inside, and wrap it up in some modern synthetic casing, and then put it in an incubator and let it produce life.
Prabhupada: What is the difficulty? These rascals, it is proposed that life comes from chemicals. So take a small egg and analyze, find out the chemicals, same chemicals combine together, and bring life. Why? What is the answer? He's for the modern scientists. (laughter) He represents them.
Atreya Rsi: And the scientists will sit on the eggs?
Prabhupada: Scientist may not be. They're putting the incubator, producing so many chickens. So why the egg is taken from the chicken? Why not manufacture and produce hundreds and thousands of chickens, chemical? First of all, begin with chicken then with other.
Parivrajakacarya: They say they are working on this.
Prabhupada: Rascal, working, it is already being done, so what is your credit? We are working. You may work also, but what is your credit? Suppose if you become successful. What is your credit? It is already being done by the chicken. Why should you take the laureate title, Dr. such-and-such. Give it to the chicken. What they can do? Can they produce a seed of this, just like one seed produce so many things? Bijaham sarva-bhutanam. Where is your credit? [break] Mines, as soon as it is national, nobody will take. In 1950, twenty-five years, twenty-six years ago, I was in Madras, Gaudiya Matha, and there is a bus stop in front of the temple. So every bus was making some sound, huuuuuung, but when nothing was properly oiled. Machine is going to hell when it is managed by the government. As soon as there is government management, nobody wants. So long there is proprietorship, the proprietor takes care that "My machine will go bad if I don't take care." But who cares for that? That showing that so much oil purchased, who is going to check it? People have become dishonest. On account of godlessness, everyone is dishonest. He's dishonest to himself even. Doesn't take care of the body properly. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-gunah. Therefore you cannot expect good qualities of the human society without injecting God consciousness. [break] ...in the mass of people amongst themselves. Do they fight very much amongst themselves?
Atreya Rsi: Not so much. They are not as peaceful as Indians. They are not as pious as Indians.
Prabhupada: They cannot be. In India still you'll find hundreds and thousands of men are going to take bath in the Ganges in the morning. They might have only one cloth and one napkin. Still, they will take twice bath with the napkin, they change the cloth and wash it and spread it on the ground. By the time he finishes his bathing, the cloth is dry. That is India's advantage. And he puts some fresh cloth. And the napkin is also dry. And he'll become refreshed. And in his lota he'll take some water of the Ganges and he'll go home. In Vrndavana you'll find many thousands in the morning, with lota they go out, evacuate somewhere, and then wash hands, mouth, with cloth, taking bathing in the Ganges, Yamuna. Now they are polluting the Yamuna water, the government. In Vrndavana government is opening oil refinery, and people are being encouraged, "These are new temples." Everywhere people are being degraded. They have no tendency to become purified, God conscious, honest. Because they do not believe in the next birth. This garden belongs to the palace? No.
Atreya Rsi: It so-called belongs to the people, to the government. But here palace has a lot of influence.
Prabhupada: Yes, the king must have. That is... Clean here.
Hari-sauri: No they're just looking. Probably the amount of cleaners that's been past, this should be the cleanest spot in the whole park by now. (Iranian men talking)
Iranian: Pustu.(?)
Prabhupada: Tustu(?) language, tustu. This language resembles like that. This Irani language. [break] And they are claiming it is ours. Nobody has created anything. God has created for His pleasure. Everything is God's property, and they have made an unfavorable situation, "My property." Now here is a city, it is all right, there is no trouble. If I say it is my property and you say it is your property, then there is trouble. Then there is immigration department, "Why you are coming here?" Then the dogs barking, yow yow yow. This is going on as civilization. First of all, they claim God's property falsely their own, and they create a situation. And for this purpose the whole world is working, how to create a bad situation of proprietorship right on God's property, that's all.
Nava-yauvana: The statement made the other day by the king that all the forests and natural resources were made by God. No man can make these things.
Prabhupada: The king?
Nava-yauvana: The king said that.
Prabhupada: That's a fact.
Nava-yauvana: But his conclusion was not correct. He said therefore these things are owned by the government which represents the people. He didn't understand.
Prabhupada: It belongs to God. This is accepted. And God... And everyone is God's son. Therefore as the son can enjoy the father's property, they can enjoy. But they cannot claim proprietorship. As directed by the father, one can enjoy the father's property, but he cannot claim that it is his property. This is the correct position. And the king is supposed to be representative of God to see that things are rightly going on, that's all. Nobody's unnecessarily claiming proprietorship. He should remind that "It is God's property. You can utilize it as far as you need; you don't take more. Whatever you need you take, but you cannot take more." Like the birds and beasts they are living. They do not make stock. They need to eat something, they'll eat some fruit, then they go away. When they are hungry they will go another tree. They never claim that "This is my tree, this is my fruit." This is natural. If you put a bag of rice here, the birds will come, they will eat some grains and go away. But a man, he'll go and try to stock something, and he will take more.
Hari-sauri: But they say that that's intelligence, to make preparation for the future.
Prabhupada: Yes, to steal God's property is certainly intelligence. Very good intelligence. They must suffer. Must be punished. For this intelligence they must be punished. (men talking in background) So if they want to hear, these men...?
Hari-sauri: Their idea is that God may have made everything, but now it's for us to divide up and enjoy between us.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Hari-sauri: God may have made everything, but now He has no connection with it now.
Prabhupada: Why? He has made and He has no connection? What is this rascal theory? He has made everything and He has no connection.
Hari-sauri: No, He gives up the connection.
Prabhupada: Why He gives up? He has made for His enjoyment. Why should He give up?
Hari-sauri: They say that He's made for our enjoyment and it's for us to divide and enjoy.
Prabhupada: No. Therefore you are rascal. Everything is done by somebody. Suppose if you organize one business. That is for your enjoyment. God has created anything, that is for His enjoyment. But you are sons of God, you can enjoy the property of the father as far as you require. Not more than, you cannot take more than that. Then other sons will claim and there will be fight. You live. You are son of God, you live at the expense of God. God has sufficient supply. But don't try to take more and stock. That is folly. You eat, you live very nicely. There is no prohibition. But you cannot take more than what you require. This is Bhagavata communism. If you take more, you'll be punished. [break] ...our philosophy, Krsna consciousness. Tena tyaktena bhunjitha [Iso mantra 1]. The Indians are trained up like that. He is happy in whatever condition of life he is placed. He doesn't protest. Any Indian villager, he'll say "God has given me this position, that's all right." Therefore the modern man is complaining that in India, this God consciousness has made them lethargic. They do not do... They believe on the destiny. Actually they do. Actually they do. Therefore from the very beginning you'll find so nice philosophy, literature, but you won't find the modernized economic development. Big, big house, big, big road, no. There was no such attempt.
Hari-sauri: They're not interested in increasing the unnecessary items.
Prabhupada: That's it. Why? If there is already sufficient supply of my necessities of life, why shall I waste my time? They knew how to utilize time.
Nava-yauvana: One argument that people sometimes give when we say that the world was created for His pleasure, they say that God...
Prabhupada: How shall we go, we shall sit?. It is very...
Hari-sauri: I think the earth is very damp. If you sit on it, it becomes wet.
Atreya Rsi: You sit on another bench. There's many benches.
Prabhupada: The park belongs to government of the king. So you can come, sit down here, enjoy. Why should we claim proprietorship? Then there is trouble. Otherwise, it is kept very nicely. You come, sit down, enjoy the atmosphere. Everyone has got the right. But why shall we claim proprietorship unnecessarily and create trouble? Because you are allowed to sit down here, if you say, "From henceforward, I am the proprietor," then others will say, "Then I am the proprietor. Then why you are coming here?" Then there is trouble.
Nava-yauvana: They say that God has no need to enjoy.
Prabhupada: Beat him with shoes on his face. Because He has created and He has no need to enjoy. Why He has created? He's your father's servant, that He's created for you? He has created for His enjoyment. That is the tendency everywhere. I create something for my enjoyment. But I can allow others to enjoy also with me, that is another thing. How can you say that God has simply created for your enjoyment? What is his claim? Is there any practical example in the world, that somebody creates something for others? Is there any example? Why do you claim in this way, which is unusual? What is the ground of your this rascal philosophy? Wherefrom you get this idea that I create something for somebody else? I create for myself, for my enjoyment. But I can allow you to enjoy with me. That is another thing. A father creates family for his own enjoyment. Wife, children, he wants enjoyment -- society, family. Therefore he takes the risk of maintaining so many people. He feels some enjoyment, therefore he takes the risk. Otherwise he has no business. Why should he create unnecessary trouble to maintain a family, maintain wife, children and society? The principle is if you create something, it is created for your personal enjoyment. But I can allow my sons, my wife, my family members to enjoy with me. But the basic principle is for my enjoyment. This is natural. Where do you get this philosophy that...? What you said? That God cannot enjoy.
Nava-yauvana: Yes, He doesn't need to enjoy.
Prabhupada: Why?
Nava-yauvana: They say because He's not like human being.
Prabhupada: Because He's not like a human being, therefore He cannot enjoy. There are so many animals, they are not like human beings. Why they enjoy sex? Can you forbid him that "You are not like human being, you cannot enjoy"? This is all nonsense philosophy. Because they do not know what is God, what He is, what is His position, relationship, therefore these nonsense things are said.
Parivrajakacarya: They think that God is their servant.
Prabhupada: Then there is no more God. God cannot be servant of anyone. God is master. As soon as He becomes servant, He's no more God. Then you are God. Then you do not know what is the meaning of God. Therefore you are rascal. You do not know the meaning of God and you are trying to explain God. Therefore you are a rascal. The difficulty is at the present moment, rascals are leading the human society. No sane man, only rascals. Their philosophy, their science, their politics, their sociology, because they are guided by the rascals, everything is bad.
Nava-yauvana: They are the biggest cheaters, so everyone becomes cheater.
Prabhupada: Yes. Difficulty is there is no education. Mudha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duskrtina, sinful, mudha, rascal, lowest of the men, naradhama, and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge, therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.
Dayananda: They judge everything on the basis of what is good for humanity.
Prabhupada: But they do not know what is good because they are uneducated rascals. What do they know what is good for humanity?
Dayananda: Whatever gives pleasure to the greatest number of people.
Prabhupada: Pleasure... So that is child. The child also feels pleasure with something. But it is the duty of the parent to train him to the right point of view. The child takes pleasure playing the whole day. But the father does not allow him. If you leave, let the child seeks his own pleasure, then you are spoiling him. Then there is no need of becoming your father, guardian, let him be spoiled by his whimsical pleasure. There is no need of training, schooling, colleges. There is no need. In my childhood I was not willing to go to the schools. My mother forced, by force she used to... My father was lenient and my mother kept a special man, yamadhara(?), that, "Your duty is to take him by force to the school." Yes. My father, my mother would complain that "Your boy did not go to school." "Oh, he did not go to school?" And I was sure he was very affectionate. "Why?" "No, I shall go tomorrow." Then father, "All right, he will go tomorrow, that's all right." But that tomorrow will never come. This is my practical. My mother forced me. So I thought, "It is pleasure. Why shall I go to school? Let me play whole day." But it is the duty of the guardian to see that this is not pleasure, this is spoiling. A child may think something pleasure, but the guardian should not think that this is pleasure. This is spoiling him. Otherwise why the guardians are required? Why government is needed, why king is needed, why father is needed, why guru is needed? Just to guide. Therefore whatever you think whimsically it is pleasure, the guru, the father, the king, the government, they should guide -- "No, it is not pleasure, it is ruining. You should take like this." If the guru and father and the government, they are themselves rascals and fools, how they will guide? And that is the position. General public, they require guidance, but the guides themselves are rascals and fools, cheaters, bluffers. Therefore the condition, social condition... (passerby says something) He said in English?
Atreya Rsi: No.
Prabhupada: We shall go now?
Atreya Rsi: Whenever you like.
Hari-sauri: It's half past seven.
Prabhupada: No, I have no objection. This is nice place.
Nava-yauvana: Because the leaders, they are thieves, they are taking the most, and then they...
Prabhupada: They have become thieves because their guardians did not care for them. This is going on parampara. The parampara is that God's instructions should be distributed. Evam parampara. But there is no followers of God's instruction. Therefore the fool's, rascal's parampara is there. The father is a rogue and the son is rogue. The grandson is a rogue. What is wrong? The parampara is rogue. And if they follow God's parampara, then everything is all right. In the beginning, imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "I said." That is perfect instruction. God is all perfect, He is speaking. Now you follow that speaking, then you become perfect. And if you follow Satan, then you become a rogue, thief. The difficulty is they are not following the words of God. And religion means the words of God. It doesn't matter what kind of religion it is. If they actually follow the words of God, they become good. Just like in the Ten Commandments, the good instructions are there. So what is the wrong there? You follow, you become a good man. Similarly, in Koran also, there are good instruction. You follow, you become a good man. After all, religion means to try to understand God. So if you sincerely want to understand God and follow His instruction, any religion, it doesn't matter, you become a good man. Comparatively, according to the time, circumstances may be... Just like, who told me? You told me that they cut throat of the lamb. There is a... Suppose that the blood goes to the Mecca side, still there is sense of God. A sense of God. Similarly, if they follow strictly the words of God, so everything is all right.
Dayananda: But, Srila Prabhupada, nowadays when people follow this so-called religion, they...
Prabhupada: No, no, we are talking of religion, not so-called religion. So-called religion is finished. That is not religion.
Dayananda: Then it is very difficult to find out what is real religion.
Prabhupada: Why not? Why the original, any religious scripture you can see.
Dayananda: Then they will interpret.
Prabhupada: No, that is wrong. You cannot interpret, you cannot change by resolution. That is not.
Dayananda: Then they must have someone to tell them. Then they must have an authority.
Prabhupada: It is already there, just like in the Bible.
Dayananda: A spiritual master, I mean. They must have the person.
Prabhupada: Yes, spiritual master, yes, must be there. That is Vedic injunction. Tad vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Spiritual, that I have already explained. Spiritual master, good father, good king, good teachers, they are required. That is defect. There is no guru, there is no spiritual master, there is no nice king, nice father, whole society... [ (in room) If you find out sand and rocks, you must also (indistinct) there was water. And from water, vegetation comes. From vegetation, other life comes. What we speak, we don't speak unscientifically. It is scientific. How this rascal says all of a sudden in the sky there is rocks? Wherefrom the rock came?
Hari-sauri: Well, they say originally from gas.
Prabhupada: Gas?
Hari-sauri: Gas.
Prabhupada: So gas, without water, there cannot be gas.
Hari-sauri: Gas and then it liquifies and then it solidifies.
Prabhupada: Liquid means water. So as soon as there is water, there is vegetation. You'll find everywhere. Water dries up, vegetable comes.
Parivrajakacarya: Today they are exploring Mars, and they are saying that they're finding water on Mars.
Prabhupada: Water's there. Everything must be there. Panca-bhuta, maha-bhuta. Ether, then fire, then water, then land. Everything is described in the Bhagavatam. They cannot speak nonsense. They can speak nonsense through the other literatures, but we cannot speak. Without water, how there is possibility of sand? Sand means it is salt.
Parivrajakacarya: If you go out here, there is big desert.
Prabhupada: That means there was water.
Parivrajakacarya: Yes, and under the desert always. I took a trip a few weeks ago, all over Iran, to the deserts, to villages, and always just forty feet, forty meters under the desert, lots of water. They would bring the water up and then there would be green, they would grow vegetables. So even here there's water.
Prabhupada: The water, sea, as it becomes solidified, the outer surface, by sunshine, they become, it is called sodium silicate. Salt is sodium chloride. So from sodium chloride, the sodium silicate. So cover(?) of the sea they can solidify by the sodium silicate. But underneath there is water. Just like our, this skin, bone, coming from where? We are eating liquid and or some vegetables or some whatever, they are becoming liquidified. And first transformation is blood. Blood is liquid, and from blood everything is coming. The muscle is coming, the bone is coming. The more the liquid portion becomes solidified by air, gas, then these things coming. The formation of this body beginning the liquid semina, liquid ovum, mix together. From liquid. Then they form pealike solid thing, from that liquid. And then the body forms. Wherefrom the solid body forms? The man injects liquid. Liquid inject, everything is coming. So wherefrom the solid molecules? By chemical composition the body forms, from liquid to solid. So as soon as you see some solid thing, you must know that it has come from liquid.
Parivrajakacarya: It got its form from liquid. The form, it had to come from liquid somehow.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be. Yes, liquid. The discharge of semina is liquid. It is not solid. So how this body comes? You cannot bluff that a solid has come all of a sudden. There was liquid, or there is liquid.
Hari-sauri: Well, they'll accept that there was liquid.
Prabhupada: Yes, then there must have been vegetables. As soon as there is liquid there is vegetation.
Hari-sauri: Their argument is that because there's no atmosphere then there's no vegetation.
Prabhupada: Oh, that is... That is another bogus. The atmosphere is the same everywhere. Little more. Just like... [break]... say in the sun planet there is living entity, there is fire. So what do you mean by atmosphere if even in fire there is life? Dahati pavakah. Bhagavad-gita. Nainam dahati pavakah. Pavakah means fire. Does not burn the soul. So where there is fire only, he develops fiery body. Not that by the fire it is finished. Nainam dahati pavakah. Where there is gas, air, nainam... Find out this verse. Acchedyo' yam adahyo' yam.
Hari-sauri: Gita?
Prabhupada: Bhagavad-gita, yes. You do not read even. You should have reference immediately.
Parivrajakacarya: Even here on the earth, even ice in the South Pole of the earth, they find much life inside the ice.
Prabhupada: Just see. Here inside the ice there are life.
Parivrajakacarya: They are very surprised. They said how is this happening.
Prabhupada: Yes. Life is everywhere. This bogus theory there is no life, the atmosphere is different, it is bogus, simply bogus. Because spirit soul is never affected by any material atmosphere. That is the distinction between matter and spirit. It has nothing to do with this material atmosphere. They don't have knowledge, they are baffled. And those who have no knowledge, they are accepting.
Hari-sauri:
nainam chindanti sastrani
nainam dahati pavakah
na cainam kledayanty apo
na sosayati marutah
 [Bg. 2.23]
"The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind."
Prabhupada: So where is question of atmosphere influence? Suppose there is rock and sand and always hot weather. That does not mean there cannot be any life. The life is never affected by all these things. Make propaganda about this knowledge. People will understand that Krsna consciousness movement is not joking; it is something serious. That boy was saying that these scientist, they know me. What is this boy's name, this boy said about the so-called astronomer, scientist? Who was this boy?
Pradyumna: Who came last night?
Hari-sauri: One of our boys, American boy, that tall boy.
Pradyumna: Here in this temple?
Hari-sauri: Yes. Jnanagamya. He used to do some science research as well.
Parivrajakacarya: The scientists are like all materialists. They think if we have not seen it...
Prabhupada: You have to see from the book. Seeing from the book is real seeing. What you can see with these blunt eyes? I have seen in these navigators. They see in the different plans and books, and they direct their ship or airplane accordingly. How can he see where we are going?
Hari-sauri: Just like they land an airplane.
Prabhupada: Yes. They have got all plans and direction, and altitude, latitude, which direction is going on(?) in front of the pilot. So everything is there. In what position the plane is there, how high it is and how low it will be, where it is, everything. On that direction they can fly. Otherwise, what they can see with the eyes? At most ten miles, and it is running at six hundred miles? What ten miles will do them? So sastra-caksusa. Authoritative literature should be the eyes, not these blunt eyes. What is the value of these eyes? Here is authority: nainam dahati pavakah. You should go to the school, colleges, and from Bhagavad-gita give them rascal knowledge. The whole world is in darkness, and these rascals are guiding them. You have tasted the bada? Nim bada?
Pradyumna: This morning.
Prabhupada: Huh? Did you like it?
Parivrajakacarya: It tasted very healthy.
Prabhupada: Healthy?
Parivrajakacarya: Healthy. It tasted like it was good for me.
Hari-sauri: That means it didn't taste very nice, but we accepted it was good.
Parivrajakacarya: I know by my intelligence that it is good to keep eating, even though my tongue was saying "Stop."
Prabhupada: No, this nim is good. They say that if you eat at least two leaves of nim daily, you'll never lose your appetite, appetite will be continuing.
Hari-sauri: Who can eat two leaves of nim? (laughing)
Prabhupada: No, if you practice, it is not impossible.
Pradyumna: I ate them one time. Remember in Bombay I thought I had worms? You told me to eat nim?
Prabhupada: Effective? What happened?
Pradyumna: Well, I didn't notice anything happened, but it was very, very bitter, so bitter.
Prabhupada: So that worms cured or not?
Pradyumna: I don't know. Sometimes I think I have worms.
Prabhupada: You should not eat sweet.
Parivrajakacarya: You cannot get nim in Iran. I have never seen a nim tree in Iran.
Prabhupada: No tree. In the desert, where is tree? All desert. All this Middle East, desert. So they can be allowed to eat meat. Otherwise, what they'll eat? So everyone must eat something. So if there is no vegetation, if there is no sufficient, they can be allowed.
Parivrajakacarya: I visited some of these small villages in the south of Iran, and the tents of nomads who kept sheep, that was their life. They had a tent and they had hundreds of sheep, and they would move the tent every month. They would take the tent, for one month they would live here, next month they would move.
Prabhupada: Why they're changing?
Parivrajakacarya: Because they're desert people. The sheep eat all the little green, and then they have to move on.
Pradyumna: Same thing as the Bible. When the sheep eat up all the green in that place, then they have to go to another place with their sheep. In the Bible the same thing. All that Abraham, Joseph...
Prabhupada: Bible was produced here, in this desert. Jerusalem is not far away. Mecca, (indistinct), Arabia.
Parivrajakacarya: All they had to eat was the milk of sheep and goats and sometimes when they would camp near a farm they would have vegetables. Sometimes. And then the meat of the sheep.
Prabhupada: And these dates. In the desert the date tree grows. Sometimes they eat camel also. Do they not?
Parivrajakacarya: Yes. But I don't think if they...
Prabhupada: They cannot be strictly vegetarian; it is not possible.
Parivrajakacarya: It is difficult.
Prabhupada: But even they eat meat they can chant Hare Krsna, there is no harm.
Parivrajakacarya: But now they are farming in the desert. The Iranian government has started farms. They are irrigating the land with water, and when they put water on the desert they get all kinds of vegetables and grains very easily. So if they do that then they can become vege... They have no excuse. The excuse of the people is that "We have to eat meat."
Prabhupada: They can have rains from the sky by chanting. The rain will fall from the sky. Who can check it? Krsna gives the water from the sky. Yajnad bhavati parjanyah [Bg. 3.14].
Parivrajakacarya: They say in the books that this area used to be all forest with many, many trees two to three thousand years ago. It was a very thick forest. But since then it has become desert, the rain has stopped since then.
Prabhupada: Because the yajna stopped.
Pradyumna: The Sahara Desert used to be all trees, very fertile. Sahara Desert in Africa, it is the biggest desert in the world. Nothing...
Prabhupada: Sahara, Sahara.
Pradyumna: Sahara Desert. It used to be very rich thousands of years ago, but then became desert.
Hari-sauri: It's supposed to increase its size by ten miles every year.
Pradyumna: Desert growth. Formerly, that city Carthage used to be there. Carthage was fighting Rome. Carthage was very rich, all farms.
Prabhupada: Cartharian civilization was very big civilization. The thing is that the more people become sinful, they'll be disturbed by this natural atmosphere. Therefore I'm surprised that moon planet is inhabited by pious inhabitants, how there can be desert?
Pradyumna: But does moon planet have something to do with Pitrs? Does the Pitr..., Pitrloka is different?
Prabhupada: Pitr?
Pradyumna: Pita, Pitr?
Prabhupada: No, Pitrloka is different. That is downwards.
Hari-sauri: Does that Pitr, does that refer to the original progenitors?
Pradyumna: No, forefathers.
Prabhupada: Latest development they are finding water in Mars?
Parivrajakacarya: It is very difficult for them because they are using their eyes and other instruments. They have found places where there were rivers, and they are finding ice, other things. So, I don't know the latest about it. It is obvious to them there is life, different kinds of life.
Hari-sauri: The way of testing for life...
Prabhupada: Why you are spoiling your nails? It may come to a boil and then you'll understand. It is very dangerous habit. If there is little (indistinct) then it will become a boil.
Pradyumna: Jnanagamya said that on Mars they found something like a crater with a house. Looked like a... Or a bombed-out thing. This Jnanagamya was working with a, he works with some information service, U.S. Information Service. So he was in charge of designing something here for Fourth of July. Some program. So he got this information from this U.S. Information Service which generally..., sometimes it isn't made public. It's just in their U.S. service. They'd seen some kind of a crater with...
Parivrajakacarya: Roads in it as well.
Pradyumna: Yes, something with roads in it or something.
Hari-sauri: The way they test for life is they take some soil and mix certain things with it, and then they wait and see if there is some life development from that.
Prabhupada: That is nonsense.
Hari-sauri: Yes. They mix ammonia and...
Prabhupada: Chemical theory. Why do they not in the end mix something and see if life is coming? They are all rascals, speaking one after another, rascals.
Hari-sauri: That's their whole thing, that if...
Prabhupada: If by mixing something they can bring life, why not in the egg?
Hari-sauri: Yes, they can't even do it here.
Prabhupada: Simply for... But you rascals you cannot understand how they are speaking rascaldom.
Hari-sauri: No, I can see now. I've been with you so long I can understand now.
Parivrajakacarya: They have sent this one ship to Mars at a cost of one billion dollars. They are making these tests.
Hari-sauri: Now there's a second one going around as well. That's Viking 1 that's on there now, and they have another one, Viking 2, that's designed to orbit.
Pradyumna: Vikings were names of pirates. Viking means pirates. Pirate's a thief. Vikings, they used to be thieves. They named their spaceship Viking. (laughs)
Prabhupada: [break]...the idea going to the other planet? Colonization or what?
Pradyumna: One thing, they say, is security, that American and Russia are fighting. So it was a race to get to the moon because they think that from other planets they can control conditions on the earth. From another planet they can control weather or they can control different things.
Prabhupada: Just see how bogus.
Pradyumna: That is one thing they say, we must get to the moon first, for security.
Prabhupada: That is now failure. Now they'll do it from Mars.
Hari-sauri: Not so much from there for security, it's just...
Parivrajakacarya: Their pride, one country, just like children playing, one can say "I can fly higher than you," and so "We can go to the moon before you can." For no reason than just to show they can do it.
Hari-sauri: It's an excuse to spend money. It's for fun.
Prabhupada: They cannot settle up their misunderstanding here. By going to the moon planet, they'll do it.
Hari-sauri: That's one thing that they said they were going to do, actually. They had some Russian astronauts and some American astronauts, and they had them meet in space, and then they joined their spaceships together and then they had a meal together and did some experiments, and then they left again. So that was very much acclaimed as bringing the two nations closer together.
Prabhupada: We are afraid of these two classes of rascals. "Afraid of" means we don't want their association. It is very dangerous.
Pradyumna: You said in the Bhagavatam just that, that we are afraid of the materialistic men.
Prabhupada: Yes. Personally I feel, I have several times told. For a devotee to live with nondevotees is so obnoxious and troublesome, it is sometimes mentioned, better to remain within a cage surrounded by fire, and still, don't remain with nondevotees. You prefer to live within a cage surrounded by fire. That living is preferable than to live with this nondevotee class.
Hari-sauri: A lot of the devotees had that experience living with their parents before they joined the movement. It was so hellish they had to get out. Then they, some way or other, met...
Prabhupada:
tandera carana-sebi-bhakta-sane bas
janame janame hoy ei abhilas
Bhakta-sane bas, that is the essential part of progressing. Dayananda's daughter came today, in my lavatory.
Hari-sauri: When you were in?
Prabhupada: Yes, I was going... [break] Generally, this bada are made with patola(?) leaves, patola leaves mashed and mixed with this dahi.
Hari-sauri: Is that just as healthy as nim leaves? Patola leaves? Just the same.
Prabhupada: It is better. [break] ...the influence of the moon planet, the vegetation grows. Do they accept, the modern botanists, influence of moon planet?
Parivrajakacarya: All the farmers, they...
Prabhupada: They do believe?
Parivrajakacarya: They believe that. They plant certain seeds according to the moon.
Pradyumna: Even in the West they only plant certain things on the waxing moon, not on the waning moon. On sukla-paksa.
Prabhupada: And moon is vacant. By the influence of moon, other vegetation growing, and it cannot grow itself.
Hari-sauri: They admit that the moon rays have some kind of potency. They know that.
Prabhupada: No, it is stated in the Bhagavatam.
Pradyumna: In the Jyotisa it has, it controls liquids. And I think even in hospitals here, near Purnima, where some of the times they don't like to do the operations because there will be more..., the blood will run more. Something, they have some, somebody told me. The tides are also going according to the moon. The rivers are running according to the moon. In the Ganges, one time we went...
Prabhupada: The ebb tide, low tide, according to the moon.
Pradyumna: One day the Ganges was very peaceful, and then we went again and it was rushing. If you went in you would just be carried away. (long pause)
Prabhupada: You can do it here.
Hari-sauri: You don't want to go outside today?
Prabhupada: Outside is bright. (end)

 

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