Brain Is Already Created

Mayapura, March 17, 1976

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Prabhupada: [break] ...just decorate green leaves and yellow flower. By chance? Rascals say, "By chance." It is coming by chance? Just see. Show me anything within your experience which has come by chance. Anything, whatever you like, show me, come by chance, which has come by chance.Hrdayananda: I can say.... "Yes, I was, became sick by chance."
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hrdayananda: "I became sick by chance."
Prabhupada: No, no. Then again you are rascal. You infected some disease. Then you became sick. There is no chance.
Guru-krpa: The other day, Srila Prabhupada, I went in the shower, and I turned on the shower, and the thing broke and hit me on the head. It was chance.
Prabhupada: Yes, because you are rascal, therefore it hit you.... (laughter)
Guru-krpa: So it was chance.
Prabhupada: It was not chance. You are a rascal, and you were hit on the head.... (laughs) That is not chance. The cause is your rascalism. So you cannot find out anything by chance. Madhudvisa Maharaja, you can find out anything by chance? This is simply rascaldom, chance theory.
Panca-dravida: What about...? What about gambling, Prabhupada? Somebody wins; somebody loses. That's by chance.
Prabhupada: That is not chance.
Madhudvisa: They would say, "Everything is by chance." You say green, yellow flower with green leaf. So.... But through evolution there has been so many other combinations. Now we're just...
Prabhupada: But then evolution is the cause. Then evolution is the cause. How you can say "chance"?
Madhudvisa: No, it's just many, many different combinations. Now you are seeing the yellow and green...
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Madhudvisa: ...so you are appreciating.
Prabhupada: There is a process in the evolution. Therefore you find. You cannot say it's chance.
Panca-dravida: Well the evolution happens by chance.
Prabhupada: No.
Trivikrama: Just like he said. All the trees are growing up, not one going this way, not by chance one is...
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Nothing by chance. It is a wrong theory.
Satsvarupa: If you throw dice, they may come up in one...
Prabhupada: Then dice becomes cause? Chance?
Satsvarupa: Well, what causes it to be seven or eleven or another number?
Panca-dravida: Chance.
Prabhupada: Not chance. You do not know. Therefore you say.
Hrdayananda: Ah! Because they don't know, they say "chance."
Trivikrama: That's right, because I don't know, ignorant.
Prabhupada: Yes. They want to cover their ignorance by this theory, "chance." They want to become very intelligent by chance. That is their.... That is not the fact. For intelligence you have to learn from a superior person. It cannot be done by chance. Who has become learned scholar by chance? There is none.
Pusta Krsna: Because that is sudra philosophy, this chance philosophy.
Prabhupada: Yes. Everyone has to work very hard, pass examination, and then he becomes an educated man. Where is by chance one has become learned?
Panca-dravida: What about two people born in the same circumstance? Each has equal education and equal background, but one becomes rich and one remains poor. That's chance.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the fate. Fate is the cause, destiny. Otherwise, so many people are working hard. Why not everyone is becoming rich by chance? Kalena sarvatra gabhira-ramhasa. This is the instruction in the Bhagavatam. Tal labhyate duhkhavad anyatah sukham. There are two things -- happiness and distress -- and they are being controlled by the time. You have infected some disease. In time, it will come out, manifested, and the doctor say, "Oh, you infected this disease. Take this injection." The time factor. It.... You have to wait to see the result. It is not chance. As soon as you do something, immediately the reaction begins. But you do not see the result immediately, but wait and you'll find. Yes.
Madhudvisa: So we say that everything has a cause.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: But then we have causeless mercy. So would that be chance?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Madhudvisa: We have also causeless mercy, meeting the pure devotee. Is that a chance?
Prabhupada: No. I.... We don't accept that chance. The causeless is a mercy. Causeless mercy is the cause.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. The mercy is the cause.
Prabhupada: The mercy may be causeless, but the mercy is the cause.
Madhudvisa: But the which is the cause?
Pusta Krsna: The mercy is the cause.
Tamala Krsna: That's a cause.
Pusta Krsna: You did nothing to deserve it, but it's caused your good fortune.
Trivikrama: Jaya.
Satsvarupa: That poet from Ireland asked you, Srila Prabhupada, when you were in Rome. He said, "I want to know who told God all that He knows, because..."
Prabhupada: What is that?
Satsvarupa: He asked, "Who.... Who has informed God of all knowledge? Everyone has to learn from someone." So he said, "Who informed God?"
Trivikrama: Then Prabhupada said, "First you have to know what God means."
Satsvarupa: Yes, that He's svarat.
Prabhupada: I think that poet was convinced.
Trivikrama: Yes. He admitted that he was confused.
Pusta Krsna: This philosophy pervades all of modern science.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Pusta Krsna: This chance theory.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: They say that "By chance, after some time..."
Prabhupada: Because they have finished their science. They have researched and done so many years now, their scientific knowledge is liquidated. Now they are giving this chance theory, therefore, because they cannot explain anything. That's all. Their vidya buddhi is finished. That is the problem now. For the scientists, it is a problem now. Now, so far their limited knowledge is concerned, they have done everything, discovered everything. Now there is no scope of working and discovering. That is the position of the scientists.
Panca-dravida: So they should come to you.
Prabhupada: Well, that is another thing. Rut this is their actual position. Now their position is how to bluff and get money, because talk is finished. Now bluffing stock is now finished. Now they have to give theories like this "chance" and make big, big words, jugglery.
Tamala Krsna: Why don't they make research into consciousness?
Prabhupada: What they'll be finished? Whatever their limited knowledge they possess, that is finished now. They have no scope.
Tamala Krsna: They should look to the field of consciousness.
Dharmadhyaksa: They are doing it now, but they are studying the brain. They think the brain is the source of consciousness. So they study people...
Prabhupada: So wherefrom the brain came? What they'll answer?
Dharmadhyaksa: Well, it has evolved.
Prabhupada: Again by chance. "Brain became by chance." That means failure of their stock.
Dharmadhyaksa: I heard one professor in Berkeley...
Prabhupada: You, you prepare brain, or keep something that by chance there will be a brain.
Tamala Krsna: Make a monkey's brain by chance.
Yasodanandana: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, in one of your purports, you mention that great scientists like Einstein, Newton and Chandra Bose had such great brains, but who has created their brain?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yasodanandana: This is a very clever argument of Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Yasodanandana: That they will not research.
Prabhupada: We are appreciating the brain of big, big scientist. But who has created that brain? No appreciation. Just see how fool they are. You cannot create that brain. You create another contemporary brain like that big, big man. Even that big man cannot. The big men, before dying, he should have considered, "Now I'll die now. Let me create another brain like me, and that will work." That they cannot do.
Panca-dravida: So they think chance.
Prabhupada: So there must be third man, third brain who has created. You cannot do it.
Yasodanandana: There is actual proof, Prabhupada, that when these scientists and great, so-called poets, when they die, refusing to admit the authority of God, they die a very terrible death. Just like in France there used to be a great philosopher named Voltaire, and at the end of his life, because his whole writings and existence he tried to disprove the existence of God, he went insane, and he was eating his own stool and urine. And a priest came to him and said, "Why don't you accept the existence of God? You have become such great poet." He said, "I will never accept the existence of God." But he became to the point where he was eating his own stool and urine.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Yasodanandana: This has been recorded...
Prabhupada: This is the punishment, yes. Punishment there is always. But they are so stubborn fools still.
Dharmadhyaksa: Prabhupada, the one great brain researcher, he spent nineteen years searching for the memory in the brain.
Prabhupada: There is a story that two friends talking that, on the point that "How this was cut, separated?" So one friend said, "It is by knife." And the other friend said, "No, it was by scissor." So they went on.... One said, "No! It is knife." He said, "No! It is scissor." So the knife man was very strong. So he took him to the water, that "You say it is knife. Otherwise I shall drown you." (laughter) So he said, "I'll never say." Then he said.... When he was drowning, he was doing like this, (Prabhupada gesticulates) (laughter) "Scissor, scissor." When he was actually drowned and he had no other means to say, then he was doing like this: "It is scissor. It is scissor." This is their argument. However punished they may be, they'll do this. (laughter)
Madhudvisa: [break] ...that you are too impatient.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Madhudvisa: They will say that you are too impatient. We see that in all science there's been a natural progression. Now they have.... In the test tube they have made some tissues, and the tissues are sustaining themselves and are living. So in due course, they'll be able to create some functioning brain.
Prabhupada: Then what is the use of your creation? It is already created. Why you are, rascal, working? Why?
Madhudvisa: We can create a better brain.
Prabhupada: No.
Madhudvisa: By our scientific endeavor.
Prabhupada: You cannot do even a lesser. How you can expect to do...?
Trivikrama: Post-dated check again.
Prabhupada: Again the same.
Madhudvisa: But you must give us some time because we are working hard...
Prabhupada: I shall. I shall give you kick. (laughter) I shall give you kick. And no time. I shall give you kick.
Madhudvisa: Well that's not very scientific.
Prabhupada: No. It is scientific. You are a stubborn.... "Scissor philosophy."
Dharmadhyaksa: Most brain researchers admit they could never create a brain.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dharmadhyaksa: Most brain scientists will admit they could never make a brain. Too difficult.
Hrdayananda: Scissor philosophy.
Tamala Krsna: Scissor philosophy.
Hrdayananda: Scissor philosophy and the frog philosophy.
Dharmadhyaksa: [break] ...something else.
Prabhupada: Just see. They.... At last, they'll accept: "Yes, I foolish. Yes."
Hamsaduta: Then they get a prize.
Prabhupada: So if I say from the beginning that "You are foolish," I am helping him because he has to admit at the end that he's a foolish.
Dharmadhyaksa: He was one of the biggest brain researchers. He had to admit there was a mind, there was something else other than the brain.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: When I was in America, I got one report. One person was telling me they had read of this person. It shows the limit..., how unlimited one can eat anything. This one man, he has, he has been for twenty years eating an automobile. He takes the different parts of the automobile, grinding it down, and daily eats different parts of it.
Prabhupada: Accha? Just see. Madman. There is iron, metal. He was eating?
Tamala Krsna: He's eating by grinding it very finely into powder. He's.... His program is to consume one entire automobile-tires, windshield, everything.
Dharmadhyaksa: Just so he'll become famous.
Prabhupada: And how he'll live?
Tamala Krsna: Apparently he takes a little enough quantity that it doesn't disturb. And it's ground down very finely into powder.
Trivikrama: He eats other stuff too.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, he eats other things also, meat.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Guru-krpa: I talked to one lady. She was daily eating one glass of dirt.
Prabhupada: Who?
Guru-krpa: Soil. One lady was eating soil, one glass, saying it was good for health.
Tamala Krsna: I think the goat, the animal, the goat, they eat cans. They can eat metal.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. The pigeons, they can eat stone.
Pusta Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, you once explained how the cow eats grass, and it produces such a rich vitamin food like milk.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: So you asked me the question, "Is there vitamins in the grass?" And obviously there's not such vitamins in grass that it produces milk. So the vitamins are coming from Krsna? Yes?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because if you eat grass, considering that there is vitamins -- "There is indeed" -- then you'll die.
Tamala Krsna: Of course, Karttikeya Mahadeviya...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Tamala Krsna: Mr. Mahadeviya, he might talk upon this point-wheat grass.
Panca-dravida: But cows aren't all eating wheat grass.
Prabhupada: Cows are eating grass, dry grass, and giving you nice milk. Now, if you eat it -- "There is vitamins. Let me eat" -- you'll die. So who made this arrangement?
Guru-krpa: They may argue, though, that even women give milk after there's baby, and they eat all sorts of things.
Prabhupada: They eat grass?
Guru-krpa: They eat meat. They eat fish. They are making milk also.
Prabhupada: Milk is there, but it is not that it is due to eating such and such.
Panca-dravida: Yeah, that doesn't prove anything.
Prabhupada: Yes. Milk is there.
Balavanta: If a woman doesn't drink cow's milk, she can't make other milk.
Madhudvisa: No, they will say that if the cow is fed, given good feed, then the milk is better.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Madhudvisa: If the cow is given good feed, then the milk is much better.
Prabhupada: No, that I.... That I admit. But one thing is that you practically see the cow is eating dry grass and giving you full of vitamins milk. So that does not mean that dry grass is the cause of vitamins? Otherwise you could eat also the dry grass instead of purchasing vitamin pills. Your country is very much fond of vitamin pills. You eat grass. Why you are after vitamin pills? Hm? Saurabha Prabhu? You can take vitamin pills with grass?
Dharmadhyaksa: Srila Prabhupada, we saw a science film in Stanford, and one process of protein synthesis they called "The Magic Factor."
Prabhupada: Again, that cau...
Dharmadhyaksa: They didn't...
Prabhupada: Chance. Magic is also a chance.
Dharmadhyaksa: So that must have been the Krsna factor.
Guru-krpa: Everything else but Krsna. Magic.
Prabhupada: [break] You see the tree, coconut tree, the hard nut and the water. Now, according to scientific idea, there must be pipe, there must be pumping and there must be water. Then you can raise the water. But where is such, such things? How the water is coming?
Panca-dravida: To the tree?
Prabhupada: Yes, on the top, so high. There is no pipe. There is no pump, nothing. You do it. Instead of calling a plumber, you do something that the water will come in this tank.
Devotee (2): Well, they will say that the roots of the tree is bringing the water up.
Prabhupada: That is a nonsense. You make such root and bring water here. Then your scientific knowledge will be proved. But you cannot do it. Can you do it? We are spending so much money for bringing water. Bring that root and bring water.
Madhudvisa: We have done better. We can do it faster. Within, within a few minutes we can bring so much water here. You must...
Prabhupada: But if I don't pay you, you'll starve. You'll never be able to do it if I don't pay you.
Madhudvisa: Well, we have money. So we have become more...
Prabhupada: No, you have no money. You have not money. Therefore you are working on my order. You have no money. You have no money.
Madhudvisa: I know.
Prabhupada: I know it.
Radhavallabha: Srila Prabhupada, there was one story in the magazine National Geographic of a valuable diamond, the Hope Diamond, the most valuable in the world, that was stolen from a deity of Sita-devi. So every single person that has ever gotten the diamond has been killed.
Prabhupada: Sita-devi?
Radhavallabha: Yes, a deity of Sita-devi. They stole the diamond from this deity in India.
Prabhupada: When?
Radhavallabha: Many years ago.
Guru-krpa: This diamond is in the Washington...
Radhavallabha: Yes. Smithsonian.
Guru-krpa: ...Institute. Washington, D.C. The biggest diamond in the world.
Radhavallabha: Anyone that's ever stole it's been killed. Everyone is very much afraid now. They can't understand why everyone is dying that has taken the diamond.
Tamala Krsna: Stolen?
Trivikrama: Stolen from India?
Prabhupada: No.... Oh.
Gurudasa(?): Ravana's. Who stole it?
Madhudvisa: The largest diamond in the world?
Prabhupada: Well, the Britishers, they stolen so many diamonds from India.
Trivikrama: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Trivikrama: The whole British Museum.
Prabhupada: Yes. Whole British Museum means stolen properties from many countries, that's all, especially in India.
Yasodanandana: Prabhupada, I have heard that previously in India, some pandita says, that when they used to put the jewels on the Deities they used to put some mantra that, when they install the Deity, that "Whoever takes this mantra will never be able to have peace or will die," some curse mantras.
Yasodanandana: Whoever steals the jewels.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is possible.
Radhavallabha: Even just recently they were laughing at this curse, and they took the jewel from Sita-devi in their car to go to the museum, and their car crashed on the way.
Panca-dravida: Did they die?
Radhavallabha: No, they didn't die. A severe crash, though.
Prabhupada: Don't you think the whole British nation is now ruined?
Tamala Krsna: That has crashed.
Prabhupada: What do you want more? "But he has not suffered. He has simply died." This is the argument. He has suffered. But "No, no, there was no suffering. He has simply died." What is the more suffering than death? [break]
Panca-dravida: When somebody is dying and his external consciousness is completely absorbed in all kinds of terrible bodily symptoms, how is it that a devotee remembers Krsna? What is actually happening that he's able to remember Krsna?
Prabhupada: Devotee generally remembers Krsna. But even if he cannot, Krsna will help him.
Devotees: Oh.
Prabhupada: That is guarantee. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati [Bg. 9.31]. Because he is devotee, for material condition he could not remember, but Krsna remembers, "Yes," that "he has done so much for Me."
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, otherwise...
Pusta Krsna: Otherwise, it's just mechanical.
Tamala Krsna: Mechanical
Prabhupada: No. That is.... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that.... He was giving the condition. Then, when Arjuna was little disturbed, so He said immediately, "Arjuna, you have no fear." Did you not read this portion?
Panca-dravida: Then.... Then that verse, yam yam vapi smaran bhavam [Bg. 8.6], is for...
Prabhupada: Yes, that is general. But a devotee, because Krsna has taken charge of him, even he does not remember Krsna, still, Krsna is there.
Trivikrama: "I carry what you lack..."
Jayapataka: Krsna said, "I am the cause of remembrance and forgetfulness."
Prabhupada: Yes. Generally devotee dies remembering Krsna, generally. But even if for material condition he cannot, then Krsna is taken charge.
Panca-dravida: What was the arrangement with Bharata Maharaja?
Prabhupada: And there is no question of hopelessness, no. We have to do our duty very seriously. Then everything is all right.
Panca-dravida: So with Bharata Maharaja, that was special arrangement?
Prabhupada: No. It was.... It was punishment. He became so much, I mean, attached with the animal that he forgot his duty in devotional service. That is stated. Forgot. He neglected. Therefore he was punished, but he remembered that "I did it." You cannot neglect your duty. Then Krsna is always with you. [break] ...way, a soldier is dying in duty, immediately the government takes charge of the whole family. So that is.... Why not Krsna? [break] ...krsna visvasa palana. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said. You know this song? Avasya raksibe krsna visvasa palana.
Jayapataka: "If one maintains his faith, then Krsna..."
Prabhupada: Ah! Yes. One should maintain his faith that "Krsna will give me protection. And my duty is to serve Him." That's it.
Panca-dravida: When it says in the sastra that a hundred generations past and future of a devotee, they're liberated, what kind of liberation do they get?
Devotees: Fourteen.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Panca-dravida: What kind of liberation does the family get of a pure devotee?
Pusta Krsna: One who becomes a devotee, the statement is that fourteen generations of his family, past, present and future, become liberated. So what kind of liberation does the family members of a pure Vaisnava get?
Prabhupada: Liberation means -- that is explained by Caitanya Mahaprabhu -- to become devotee. That is liberation. To become.... To become a devotee is itself liberation. [break] ...will come. Prasadam? Is there any such arrangement or not? They are coming. They should be offered some...
Pusta Krsna: You mentioned the pots of halava.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta Krsna: The pots of halava. I inquired about it, and they said that semolina is very difficult to get now, that the government has only allotted some eighty pounds of semolina to be purchased.
Prabhupada: No, it doesn't matter, but give him prasadam, other prasadam. (aside:) Hare Krsna. [break] ...halava with powdered dahl or...
Panca-dravida: Powdered dahl. They could use whole wheat flour?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Panca-dravida: Whole wheat flour, they could use in?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Devotee (3): ...in right proportions. (boys shout)
Prabhupada: What they say? What is the quarrel? [break] ...nice, South Indian. Oh, very nice. How many seats are there?
Devotee (4): Say about four(?) seats. Prabhupada, four devotees went from Hyderabad, going through Orissa and coming to Mayapura for the festival.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Devotee (4): Going about five, six months, they have traveled all over.
Prabhupada: Many people assembled on the way?
Devotee (4): Yes, because they were stopping in every village and distributing literature, giving away prasadam.
Prabhupada: Hm. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. (pause) Hm. It is dirty.
Tamala Krsna: Very much dust.
Radhavallabha: Thousands of people went through last night.
Madhudvisa: I don't think we can prevent that, Srila Prabhupada. So much traffic.
Tamala Krsna: Foot traffic. I think it should be dusted off.
Radhavallabha: The whole display will be cleaned this morning.
Pusta Krsna: [break] Tokyo, Japan, and Philadelphia.
Balavanta: That's Philadelphia.
Radhavallabha: That was when you were there, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Oh. Oh, yes. (pause) Therefore our mission is to bring Mayapura everywhere.
Devotee (5): Jaya.
Prabhupada: This is the greatest peace movement, to bring peace to the suffering humanity.
Hamsaduta: If a devotee thinks that he likes, for example, Vrndavana more than he likes Mayapura, is that a wrong thinking, or is that his personal...?
Prabhupada: There is no difference. Gauda-mandala-bhumi, yeba jane cintamani.
Hamsaduta: Just like some devotees, they worship Rama, and some worship Krsna. It is like that?
Prabhupada: They know there is no difference from Vrndavana. They are not so fool...
Hamsaduta: Not so...
Prabhupada: (Bengali) (end)

 

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Mayapura, February 3, 1976

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Prabhupada: ...in so-called transcendental meditation, go to the Himalaya and go to the forest. We are not interested in all this nonsense. Our only business is to spread Bhagavad-gita As It Is, door to door, town to town, city to city. We are not going to seclusion. Prahlada Maharaja said, "This is professional bluff: 'I am going to the Himalaya. I am going to the forest.' " Prahlada Maharaja condemns that "These are professional bluffs." Or they may be sincere, but still, they are trying for their own salvation. Prahlada Maharaja said, "I am not interested in that sal... I am interested for everyone's salvation. Everyone must go back to home, back to..." That is Vaisnava, not that "For my own salvation I go to Himalaya or in the forest and transcendental meditation, nonsense..." We are not interested in those things. (laughs) And our men... Just like that Gaurasundara. He is doing all nonsense, transcendental meditation. Is it not?Sudama: Yes.
Prabhupada: Rascal. He is doing transcendental meditation. He got so much opportunity to spread Krsna consciousness. He did it in the beginning very nicely. A rascal, he became victim. These things are for ajitendriyanam. Those who are not able to control the senses, they make this business, transcendental meditation, and secretly doing all nonsense. The whole thing, this transcendental meditation, that, what is that, Maharishi Yogi, they are doing all nonsense and advertising, "We are transcendental meditation."
Hari-sauri: They openly advertise that "If you do transcendental meditation, then you can do your business better, you can have better sex life."
Prabhupada: And that's all. So you can do your sense gratification process, yan maithunadi-grhamedhi tuccham, what is condemned by Prahlada Maharaja, that "This kind of happiness is most abominable and insignificant." Tuccham. Tuccham means very insignificant. Kanduyanena karayor iva duhkha-duhkham. It is just like itching between the two hand, and after-result is misery. That's all. Iva duhkha-duhkham. Trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duhkha-bhajah [SB 7.9.45]. They know it, that after this enjoyment of itching sensation there will be so much trouble. But neha trpyanti: they are not satisfied. Again and again. Bahu-duhkha-bhajah. Begetting one child... Just see. It is going on. (children in background) No shame. That is animal. No shame. In Western countries they are learning... I have seen. In Los Angeles beach they are having sex open. Just like these birds or beasts. Trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duhkha-bhajah. They are trying to make birth control. Why? Bahu-duhkha-bhajah. That illicit or legal sex, the after-result is very miserable.
Jayapataka: It seems that as a country, India's got the best chances for becoming fully Krsna conscious again.
Prabhupada: Yes. Everywhere chance. Krsna does not say for India.
Jayapataka: But first.
Prabhupada: No. That is not... You are making better progress, Western countries. Krsna is not limited anywhere. But in India they have got the facilities. But they are becoming rascals, so they are not taking the facility. The facility is there. That is everywhere, especially in India. You see everywhere, every day, the sunrise, so beautiful. In Western country, some places, sometimes. But here you'll find every day. That is the facility. This is Gayatri mantra. Om bhur bhuvah svah tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi. This facility is in here. You get sufficient sunlight, and in sunlight you keep very healthy and happy. That facility is here.
Bhavananda: Also, Srila Prabhupada, last night you were saying, "The sun is moving." We can see the sun has just come up and is moving across the sky. So what do they base their statement that the sun is stationary? They have no basis in fact.
Prabhupada: Therefore rascals. They see one thing and speak another. That is rascal. Yac-caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam raja samasta... Huh? Yac-caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam raja samasta-sura-murtir asesa-tejah. Asesa-tejah. The... asesa-tejah, unlimited temperature and light. They are studied. This is asesa-tejah. If they have studied the quality of the sun, how they can say something wrong about the movements? That is also right. Yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakro govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami. This is statement. Bhramati. It is never discussed, sthira. Fixed up means sthira. Bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakrah. And that is also... That movement is also within the time limit fixed up by Krsna: "Morning, half past six, you get up." "Yes." You cannot stop it. Krsna's ajna. It is order of Krsna. You stop it, you scientists. You make it conveniently. Not half past six, make it eight. Can you do this? You rascal, you are claiming scientist. Yasyajnaya. It is only by His order you can... You ask him to rise from this side. Why from this side? Is there any scientist can change? Then why they are claiming that there is no God? Huh? What is the answer? Hm? Yasyajnaya. There is some arrangement. What is their answer? Hm? Jagadisa Prabhu? What is the answer?
Jagadisa: There is no... We don't see how God is working. We don't see...
Prabhupada: Are you blind? God is working. Yasyajnaya bhramati. Yasya, by His order he is rising. Why don't you see God? It is not your order or your scientist order. Somebody's order. That is God.
Jagadisa: But there doesn't seem to be any meaning. There doesn't seem to be any meaning.
Prabhupada: What is the meaning?
Jagadisa: There is no meaning.
Prabhupada: What is the meaning?
Jagadisa: It's just evolution. There's no meaning. What's the meaning?
Prabhupada: I do not follow what is the meaning. The sun is rising half past six, exactly at the time. So there is no meaning?
Jagadisa: We can't tell what the meaning is.
Prabhupada: That is... Because you are rascal, you do not know. You learn it. One who knows the meaning. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You are fool, rascal. How can you know the meaning? You must have to go to the real person.
Jagadisa: Who knows?
Prabhupada: Guru. Therefore we go to guru. Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. One who is actually serious about inquiring, he must go. Gurum prapadyeta. Must surrender to guru.
Sastriji: Sabde pare ca nisnatam.
Prabhupada: Ah. That is... Therefore there is guru. Adau gurvasrayam. If you know, want to know, first of all take shelter of guru. That is the injunction.
Bhavananda: Then we will ask, how do we know who is really guru?
Prabhupada: That is another rascaldom. You see how others are taking guru, parampara system. You are rascal. You will place so many questions. But the answers are already there. Evam parampara-praptam [Bg. 4.2]. Guru is he who knows Krsna, who explains Krsna. That is guru. Otherwise he's not guru.
Dayananda: Samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham [MU 1.2.12].
Prabhupada: Ah. Anyone who is Krsna conscious, who knows Krsna, he is guru. Otherwise all rascals. Why should you go to a rascal? Immediately you can understand he is guru who has fully surrendered to Krsna. He is guru. Others? They are all rascals. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. Who has not surrendered to Krsna, he is under these four groups: duskrtina, mudha, naradhama, mayayapahrta-jnana. They may talk of so much knowledge, but they are rascal fools because they have not surrendered to Krsna. All the Mayavadis, they are all rascals. They have not surrendered. This is the test. Why don't you take lesson from Bhagavad-gita? He is guru. One who has surrendered to Krsna, one is servant of Krsna, he is guru. That is the test. If you want to select a guru, you have to see "Whether this person is fully surrendered to Krsna?" Then he is guru. Huh? What is the definition of guru given by...? Why don't you read all these things? Why you remain fools and rascals? Why...? We are following Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, amara ajnaya guru hana. You become a guru. How? Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That's a guru. Why don't you see all these instructions? And you are presenting yourself as following Caitanya Mahaprabhu? Why? Answer. Why you remain fool and rascal? If you want to remain fool and rascal and question, that is not very good. You must know who is guru. And you say, "I do not know who is guru." Why? Hm? What is the answer? Guru is defined by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. We are chanting daily, sri krsna caitanya prabhu nityananda sri advaita gadadhara sri... Take their lesson. Otherwise why you are praying, sri krsna caitanya prabhu nityananda? You, rather, glorify Hitler or Mussolini. Make them guru. Everything is there. You cannot say that "I do not understand." Do not understand means you do not take. What is the...? All right? (laughter)
Bhavananda: You are giving one version of Bhagavad-gita, but there are so many versions of Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Bhavananda: You are giving one version of Bhagavad-gita, but there are so many versions.
Prabhupada: If you can learn one, then your life will be successful for many thousand years. Hm? Kasmin tu bhagavo vijnate sarvam idam vijnatam bhavati. You simply understand one verse of Bhagavad-gita; then you understand everything. This is the meaning. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijnate sarvam idam vijnatam bhavati. (Bengali)
Sudama: I remember once you said, Srila Prabhupada, that it took Arjuna less than forty-five minutes. He understood. But for us it is taking, for materialistic men...
Prabhupada: Forty-five thousand years. (laughter) Who is therefore mudhas? Intelligent men can answer, understand everything, in a minute. And if he's a fool, rascal, even forty-five thousand years he cannot understand. We are giving the best service to the whole world, trying to make them educated in Krsna consciousness.
Sudama: [break] ...very curious: "What is the power and mystery of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, how he is doing so many things but yet he does not appear like these others yogis who are..., like Satya Sai Baba who is making magic and..."
Prabhupada: But why? Because they have no eyes. Has Satya Sai Baba so many properties all over the world? He is creating gold but has he got so many properties? One property like this? Huh? I started this business with forty rupees; now it is forty crores. Has this rascal has any property like this? (laughter)
Jayapataka: He is producing ashes. (laughter)
Bhavananda: Just like Yogi Bhajan came, remember Srila Prabhupada, in Berkeley, and he said, "I am simply here to try and understand how you are doing so greatly, how you are opening so many temples." He said, "I have simply come to try and understand that point, to learn your secret."
Tamala Krsna: But his idea is that he will then sit and enjoy all of those things.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Nowadays all these yogis and swamis are going. Even that blind saintly person...
Hari-sauri: Gange...
Prabhupada: Gangesvarananda. He also went. But coming back, he is disappointed. Nobody took care of him. Although in India he is known as a great saintly person. They have no asset. They have no Krsna; therefore they are beggars. Yam labdhva caparam labham manyate nadhikam tatah. If one gets Krsna, then he gets everything.
Sudama: Therefore we pray, "visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale, srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine."
Prabhupada: Not visnu-padaya. Visnu-padaya. (pronounces with long "a") The Prabhupada and Visnupada, the same thing. Visnu is prabhu. Prabhavisnave namah. They say like that? Who says that?
Sudama: Oh, that, how they are trying to understand your powers? Oh, yes, in one college I was lecturing in Kansas. Some students came to me, and they said, "We are amazed." They were disciples of this one bogus yogi. I cannot remember his name. And they were asking me, "How your swami, how your guru has got some power, we are trying to understand."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Sudama: I told them, "Yes, even we may be unwilling, still, we are forced to serve Krsna by his grace and mercy."
Prabhupada: And even the students are asking. That means it has become widespread, if the small boys are asking. They are also studying. So why did you not say, "You are asking why he has become so famous, and still, you do not say more than other yogis? You are asking this question, 'How he has become?' That means he has already become more than. So why you are asking this question?"
Bhavananda: Srila Prabhupada, I think you are the only real resident of Bharatavarsa.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Bhavananda: You are the only real resident of Bharatavarsa. No one else has fulfilled that...
Prabhupada: At least historically it be proved. [break] ...cause of envy of my Godbrothers. I was known. Although they knew that Prabhupada liked me very much, because I am grhastha, I was known as paca-grhastha. Paca-grhastha means a rotten grhastha. And now they say, "This grhastha has come out more than us? What is this?" [break] Sridhara Maharaja's chief disciple...?
Bhavananda: Gaura.
Prabhupada: He always used to say to Sridhara Maharaja that "You are seeing Abhay Babu as grhastha, but he is more than many yogis." He was telling.
Tamala Krsna: Even before.
Prabhupada: When I was grhastha they were my tenant. So, and he used to say. And then...
Tamala Krsna: He knew. He saw you in your activities.
Prabhupada: Yes, he said that "Maharaja, you are seeing he is grhastha. He is more than many yogis." He used to say, that boy.
Tamala Krsna: He has good sentiment, then.
Prabhupada: And Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, kiba vipra kiba sudra nyasi kene naya, yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. It doesn't matter whether one is grhastha or a sannyasi. (Bengali) [break]...all big, big men, he was present. [break]
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, another twenty thousand dollars was transferred. [break]
Prabhupada: He cannot complain. There is money; there is men; now you have to complete. You cannot say, "For this purpose, it..." No. [break] ...Madhava Maharaja, you can say that "Have you seen ever twenty thousand at a time?" And I am bringing daily twenty thousand. Twenty thousand dollars. Not money..., rupees, but dollars. "Have you seen twenty thousand dollars at a time?" [break] Detroit temple, you know? Jagadisa? Are you going to negotiate.
Jagadisa: Where is this?
Prabhupada: Detroit, the temple.
Jagadisa: Oh, yes, Detroit temple, yes.
Prabhupada: And he was asking 350,000. So I told, "All right, you take cash, 300,000," and he immediately accepted, though I had not three paisa even in the bank. So immediately... The girl has paid?
Jagadisa: Yes.
Prabhupada: She agreed to pay half and our Ambarisa agreed to pay half. It was purchased immediately.
Tamala Krsna: Cash. And you only had three paisa. That means one who is servant of the richest, he also becomes rich. You always said, "Serving the greatest, you become great."
Prabhupada: Yes. A big man's son squanders money and the father pays. Similarly, if you become a pure devotee of Krsna, the father will spend for you. Why do you care wherefrom money comes?
Bhavananda: Just like, Srila Prabhupada, you had Dai Nippon print fifty thousand dollars in books in the beginning.
Prabhupada: (chuckles) Yes. Yes. I gave him five thousand and I ordered him fifty-two thousand. And I told him, "The money will come." And he said that "Five thousand he is giving advance. Money will come." So they immediately published Krsna book, forty thousand dollar worth.
Sudama: And they told me, Srila Prabhupada, later, that that was the first time in the history of their company that they would ever make any such concession.
Prabhupada: They told?
Sudama: Yes. Mr. Ogata and Mr. Kugimoto said, "Somehow by his... He is such a great man, His Divine Grace, somehow we accepted." They were surprised. Remember when he went?
Tamala Krsna: They were mystified by you, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: When I was coming back from America at that time, I came via Japan for this purpose. At that time you were in charge.
Tamala Krsna: Your dealings with them were very memorable.
Prabhupada: They said, "How we agreed?" (laughs) They were surprised.
Sudama: And whenever I would see the president... That one meeting you had with him... Whenever I would see the president after that, he would always ask me, "How is His Divine Grace? How is he feeling and where is he?"
Prabhupada: I challenged him, "You are Buddhist." "Yes." "You are eating meat?" "Yes." "What is this?" (laughs) That was my first talking with him.
Sudama: They were wanting to talk business for a long time. You were simply preaching to them.
Prabhupada: Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu went to the Kazi. His first question was that "What kind of religion you are following? You are killing your father and mother?" This was His beginning of the talk. "What kind of religion it is?" "How is that? I am killing my father, mother?" "Yes, cow is your mother and bull is your father. You are killing them. The bull is giving you grains by working in the field, and the mother is giving you milk, and you are killing them." This was his first question. So this is a civilization of killing father and mother. All over the world they are killing bulls and cows. In England there is law that you can maintain a cow but you cannot maintain a bull. It must be killed. Yes. When I was a guest in John Lennon's house the manager in charge, he was telling me. "You cannot keep bull. This is our law." I learned from him.
Hari-sauri: Only for breeding purposes. Only for breeding. All the rest are killed.
Prabhupada: This is law in England? So you cannot keep even bull privately. Must be killed. This is the law.
Tamala Krsna: What is the reason for that law?
Prabhupada: Bull will not supply milk, so there is no use. It must be killed. Otherwise they are ferocious animal. You have made this law. The cows may be given some time to be killed, but the bulls should be killed immediately. This is their law.
Hari-sauri: Nor do the farmers actually want to keep them anyway.
Prabhupada: No.
Hari-sauri: They are useless animals.
Prabhupada: Simply expensive. But here in India they know how to utilize bulls -- for transportation, for plowing and so many other things.
Tamala Krsna: Such a shortage of fuel, but there is no shortage of fuel with a bull.
Prabhupada: No, rather, it will supply you gobar, fuel. Whatever he will eat, he will give you fuel.
Tamala Krsna: In return.
Prabhupada: In return.
Jayapataka: But now the government is trying to teach the people that they should buy tractors and kill the calves.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Jayapataka: They want to have..., make tractors popular and then...
Prabhupada: Kill the bulls. They were criticizing us because in our gosala we maintain the male calves.
Prabhupada: No, when our Harikesa was struck by a bull and he was taken in the hospital, the doctor was criticizing, "If you have killed the bulls, then this condition would not have come to you."
Tamala Krsna: Wow. Karma.
Prabhupada: No. There will be no accident because this..., the acci...You know that?
Tamala Krsna: I heard about the accident.
Prabhupada: There was some accident, and he was taken to hospital. So he was advised, "Because you do not kill the bulls, therefore this is the accident." As if without killing..., by killing the bulls there is no accident. And they do not cite the accident by motorcar, greater bulls. Accident will be there.
Jayapataka: Yesterday we planted paddy, paddy field.
Prabhupada: Oh. That's nice. But this is going to be a lawn?
Jayapataka: Yes. It will have flower bushes and tulasi around after the construction. The botanical director suggested that on the one end we make a little arbor type covering of vine that Your Divine Grace could sit there and give lecture from there.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayapataka: And the devotees could sit on the lawn.
Prabhupada: Yes, very nice. Mr. Agarwal said?
Jayapataka: Not Mr. Agarwal. Mr. Mitra, the deputy director of the botanical gardens.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Jayapataka: He came out here and gave one design. From Howrah Botanical Garden?
Prabhupada: Oh. He is the in-charge? Superintendent.
Jayapataka: Yes. He came with his wife and family. They were very pleased. He stayed for a day or so and then made a whole plan for us.
Prabhupada: [break] Sun is moving -- that uttarayanam and daksinayanam. This ayanam means gamanam. Is it not?
Jayapataka: Northern and southern course.
Devotee (1): In Bhagavad-gita there is mention, when yogis...
Prabhupada: Everywhere it is ment...
Sastriji: Agnir jyotir ahah suklah san-masa uttarayanam.
Prabhupada: That is in the Bhagavad-gita. [break] ...line there will be pillars? No.
Tamala Krsna: Arches. Just like on your veranda.
Prabhupada: Oh, arches.
Tamala Krsna: Exact same pattern. It will keep the same pattern.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Sudama: But on this one time should we bathe directly?
Prabhupada: No, you can bathe salagrama.
Sudama: Bathe salagrama.
Prabhupada: Bathe the salagrama-sila.
Sudama: Place Him... Place the Deity there and salagrama in front of Them and then bathe salagrama.
Prabhupada: [break] ...made so gigantic and so opulent. And we make Bhaktivinoda Thakura on the gate? How foolish they are. The doorkeeper?
Jayapataka: I challenged them that "Why you are putting Bhaktivinoda Thakura on the gateway?" So they say, "Well, this was in memory because when..." They say when Bhaktivinoda Thakura was a magistrate that he used to go there and he used to watch the local people do their..., do some sports and horse-racing and things, and so as memory they are making there.
Prabhupada: So you are so intelligent, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura was not so intelligent that he could place him. But you are so very intelligent, you are surpassing Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. So you are intelligent or fool? You should answer like this.
Tamala Krsna: Jumping over guru.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Monkey's business.
Prabhupada: He could not understand where Bhaktivinoda Thakura should be placed. You have understood. You are so intelligent, overintelligent. That means rascals. Overintelligent means rascal. Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura, he remained so many years and he could not understand. You have understood to make Bhaktivinoda Thakura a gatekeeper. You tell him next time when you..., that "You are overintelligent." [break] ...statue of..., picture, I think, of Bhakti... That Sakhi Babu.
Tamala Krsna: Which babu?
Prabhupada: Sakhi Babu.
Jayapataka: Yes, Sakhi Babu, he is there.
Bhavananda: Opposite.
Prabhupada: So that means he is on the same level. [break] ...Bhaktivinoda Thakura on the gate is the proof how fool he is. He has not shown respect to Bhaktivinoda Thakura; he has disgraced.
Jayapataka: Now the government is saying that they have to knock down those temples because of the encroaching on the roadside.
Prabhupada: Now where Bhaktivinoda Thakura...?
Tamala Krsna: Will go now? What was... What was your guru maharaja's plan for where he...? I don't understand. I mean, did your guru maharaja want a...
Prabhupada: Bhaktivinoda Thakura's statue was there.
Tamala Krsna: So why was...
Prabhupada: Bhaktivinoda... Because it was their... My guru maharaja never tried to bring him here.
Tamala Krsna: So what happened?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Tamala Krsna: So they did it?
Prabhupada: No. Bhaktivinoda Thakura's picture was there, not that on the gateway.
Bhavananda: In the back.
Prabhupada: They should have taken away that building which was constructed, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and placed him there as separate temple. You see? That red... That was constructed by Bhaktivinoda Thakura.
Tamala Krsna: You mean that school building?
Bhavananda: No, no, in the back.
Prabhupada: Just on the side of the temple.
Tamala Krsna: Old building.
Prabhupada: Yes. If they wanted to show some respect they should have installed him there.
Tamala Krsna: Just next to the temple. Your guru maharaja did not build because there was something already in Svarupa Ganja.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: So why don't they be satisfied...?
Prabhupada: No, they are bigger than Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati.
Tamala Krsna: It's not their position.
Prabhupada: Overintelligent.
Tamala Krsna: I remember one time Karttikeya Maharaja was chanting to a picture of Bhaktisiddhanta. You chastised him and said, "What is your connection with Bhaktisiddhanta? Your connection is with me."
Prabhupada: Who said?
Tamala Krsna: You did.
Sudama: You did. I remember.
Tamala Krsna: When Karttikeya Maharaja was chanting to your guru maharaja's picture, you said, "How you can connect with him? Your connection is with me." (end)

 

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Chance...None, But One

Mayapura, March 18, 1976

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Prabhupada: So why the moon is, particularly rises from the eastern side? The moon, according to the...Pusta Krsna: Scientists.
Prabhupada: The moon is going round like this. So why the moon is rising from the eastern side? It is going around. Why it appears from the eastern side?
Devotee: They say because the earth is spinning on an axis.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Panca-dravida: 'Cause the earth is turning.
Pusta Krsna: That's a very good question. (laughter)
Gurudasa: What's the answer, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: So you answer. He has understood.
Pusta Krsna: According to Bhagavatam, the moon is not going around the earth. It is revolving around Mount Sumeru. Isn't it?
Prabhupada: Yes. According Bhagavata, that is a different thing. But this...
Pusta Krsna: But why the moon should simply follow that same pattern...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: ...going east to west, east to west? Why not...?
Bhavananda: Random.
Pusta Krsna: At random. Sometimes rising from the south.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Sometimes, perhaps, from the north.
Hamsaduta: Well, they say it has a fixed orbit around the earth.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hamsaduta: It has a fixed orbit around the earth.
Tamala Krsna: Who fixed the orbit?
Jayatirtha: Krsna.
Tamala Krsna: Chance.
Pusta Krsna: Chance.
Prabhupada: And the sun is also rising from the east. But sun is fixed up, and the moon is moving. So why they are coming from the same side?
Pusta Krsna: Wonderful question. These are wonderful things.
Hari-sauri: Well, they say that the moon, the moon is actually moving around the earth.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Hari-sauri: And the earth is rotating, and the sun is, only appears to move around the earth.
Prabhupada: Is that question answered?
Panca-dravida: Well, they both appear that way because of the turning of the earth.
Prabhupada: The sun is fixed up.
Panca-dravida: But the earth is turning.
Prabhupada: Earth is turning, and moon is turning. But why the sun and moon rises from the same side?
Panca-dravida: 'Cause the earth turns in that direction.
Prabhupada: Just talk if it is proper answer.
Pusta Krsna: Why doesn't the moon sometimes rise in the south? Or the north?
Panca-dravida: Because the sun.... Because the earth is not turning in the opposite direction.
Prabhupada: What he is doing on the roof?
Tamala Krsna: Oh, no.
Hari-sauri: He's taking photographs.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, no. This boy joined us.... [break]
Gurudasa: ...rather than the chaos.
Panca-dravida: What is the Vedic explanation, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Vedic explanation is that moon is not going round the earthly planet. [break]
Pusta Krsna: This is very revolutionary thought.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Pusta Krsna: Because children all over the world in schools, they're taught simply that the moon is going around the earth. They shouldn't question it.
Prabhupada: Oh, they say, "You should not question"?
Pusta Krsna: No, should not question it. It's taken as fact.
Prabhupada: My point is: if the moon is going round the earth, beginning from here to there, similarly, the sun is also going around earth, because we see the similar way, it is rising and going that way. So how you can say one is fixed, one is standing? The process, we find the same. How you can say that this is fixed and this is going around? Why is...? If the process is the same, then the result will be the same.
Hari-sauri: [break] .... accepted the sun was moving, then they wouldn't be able to prove that...
Prabhupada: And the.... And the moon is not seen also for fifteen days in the morning (month?). As a layman, we should say that, as the moon is rising from this side and going to this side, the sun is also rising from this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is moving.
Panca-dravida: If that's true, then how does.... What about the changes in the moon's face? Sometimes...
Prabhupada: True or nontrue, I am layman. I am saying that if the moon is rising from this side and going to this side, so sun is also rising from this side and going to this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is moving.
Tamala Krsna: Common sense.
Prabhupada: Huh? Yes, I am a layman. Actually sun is moving, but they say fixed up.
Panca-dravida: [break] ...moving the same, though, the moon would always appear full, and it goes through changes, or phases.
Prabhupada: Yes. Why it, the moon is...?
Jayapataka: [break] They say that everything is moving. Both the earth is moving, sun is moving and the moon is moving, but everything has got its own time. Moon is moving once around in twenty-eight days, and our earth is moving around in 365 days, and sun is also moving in its own time.
Prabhupada: But they say sun, fixed up.
Jayapataka: No, they don't say fixed up.
Panca-dravida: They say there's a point called the galactic center of the universe, and everything is moving around that point.
Trivikrama: They say like that.
Prabhupada: So what is that center?
Jayapataka: That they can't find out.
Balavanta: Somewhere near the sun. They've just imagined it. It's close to the sun, but not exactly the sun. It's the center, they say.
Prabhupada: So our Bhagavata says the whole planetary system is moving like this.
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: Centering the polestar.
Jayapataka: They admit that there's some center of the universe. Everything is going around that, including the sun. But they don't know exactly where it is.
Prabhupada: That is polestar.
Pusta Krsna: No, that's admitted, that the polestar, the stars are revolving around, everything. They take photographs.
Panca-dravida: What?
Pusta Krsna: Of the.... Everything revolving around the polestar, the constellations.
Gurudasa: Are the moon's phases due to the planet Rahu, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Gurudasa: Are the moon's phases due to the planet Rahu?
Prabhupada: Space?
Pusta Krsna: The phases of the moon-quarter moon, half moon, full moon.
Gurudasa: Waxing and the waning of the moon.
Prabhupada: No.
Panca-dravida: What's it due to, then?
Prabhupada: That I should not exactly immediately say.
Gurudasa: We don't accept.
Pusta Krsna: No. Prabhupada just said, "Not right now."
Prabhupada: But moon is far away from the sun. That is from Bhagavatam.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, there's another question I have. I remember on a walk.... I have read in your books that the moon's glowing is due to reflecting the sun. Then I remember on a walk in Vrndavana you said that the moon is fiery just like the sun, but there's a cooling atmosphere around it. So is it actually fiery glow, or is it simply a reflecting glow?
Prabhupada: That is stated in Bhagavatam.
Gurudasa: It says reflection in the Bhagavata.
Prabhupada: No, it is also a fiery place. But it is because it is far away from the sun, it is not so glowing.
Tamala Krsna: So it's not a question of reflection only.
Prabhupada: The reflection theory is the modern theory.
Tamala Krsna: Because sometimes in the books it's stated...
Prabhupada: Yes. Sometimes I have said or taken this modern theory.
Tamala Krsna: Just so that people will understand an example. I see.
Pusta Krsna: Another question is "How do the different seasons come about-winter, summer, spring?"
Prabhupada: That is due to the movement of the sun.
Pusta Krsna: The...?
Prabhupada: Movement of the sun.
Pusta Krsna: Movement of the sun.
Prabhupada: But they say sun if fixed up.
Pusta Krsna: Yes, they say the earth is tilting back and forth like this.
Prabhupada: That is always doing, but it takes little time. But the movement of the sun, uttara and daksina, what is their explanation?
Pusta Krsna: They say that the earth is tilting like this. The sun is fixed. When the earth tilts like this in the northern hemisphere there is summer, and when it tilts like this, the southern hemisphere, there's summer. It's tilting back and forth as it revolves around the sun.
Prabhupada: Tilting?
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: But they say it is...
Panca-dravida: Well, they say the earth is on a tilted axis.
Trivikrama: Twenty-three degrees from the north pole.
Panca-dravida: So, as it revolves around the sun...
Pusta Krsna: That's another theory too.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta Krsna: There's two different theories.
Hamsaduta: It's simultaneously going around the sun, and also, in itself, it is turning. And then it's sometimes tilting on a particular axis. It's simultaneously moving around the so-called central sun...
Prabhupada: But for six months that, it tilts?
Hamsaduta: And then it also spins, the globe spins, and then it also...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hamsaduta: It has different tilts. It takes different degrees.
Tamala Krsna: The tilt is always the same.
Hamsaduta: And when the sun's rays hit the earth at a particular angle, it becomes cooler or hotter. This is their sum and substance.
Tamala Krsna: While it's spinning, it's not just spinning straight up and down. It's on an axis. So it's spinning like this, not like this. Like this.
Panca-dravida: It's on an angle.
Hamsaduta: Yeah. And then it is tilting.
Pusta Krsna: But how does that explain summer and winter?
Tamala Krsna: Because it's close to the sun in...
Panca-dravida: Because it's close to the sun and.... No, it's not closer.
Pusta Krsna: It spins. Every twenty-four hours it's turning. Why should that matter?
Panca-dravida: No, but the orbit around the sun is...
Pusta Krsna: Elliptical.
Panca-dravida: Yes. Elliptical.
Hamsaduta: Yeah, for instance, in Sweden, they have a certain part of the year when it is always dark. So they say this is because the earth's axis has shifted so that.... Yeah.
Prabhupada: So your work is going to begin today? No?
Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka Maharaja?
Jayapataka: Pardon?
Tamala Krsna: The work? When will it begin? Begin?
Jayapataka: Mahesvara told me the work is going on.
Tamala Krsna: It's going on?
Devotee (1): He said some men are coming today.
Jayapataka: Yes. More are coming today.
Prabhupada: So they are having no difficulty?
Tamala Krsna: Seems to be they are enjoying themselves.
Hamsaduta: On the whole, the devotees don't appear to be falling sick as they have in previous years.
Tamala Krsna: No.
Hamsaduta: They seem to be well and happy.
Tamala Krsna: Arrangements are getting better every year.
Trivikrama: The devotees are getting better every year.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah.
Panca-dravida: The devotees aren't eating so much and sleeping so much this year.
Tamala Krsna: No, they don't sleep at all. They get up at one-thirty.
Panca-dravida: Yeah, they're very good. [break]
Jayapataka: ...make a suggestion before they leave, have a little meeting, things that could be improved. Then next year we could even make it better.
Prabhupada: Very good. Yes. Make that suggestion.
Pusta Krsna: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Pusta Krsna: Is the earth also spinning?
Prabhupada: No.
Pusta Krsna: Or is it simply the sun's movements that causes the day and night, everything?
Prabhupada: No planet is fixed except the sun. All are fixed up. But the whole thing is moving. That is Bhagavatam. And that you can see at night.
Gurudasa: What'd he say?
Panca-dravida: No planet is fixed. The earth and sun, they're all moving.
Gurudasa: The sun is fixed.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, but they're all moving.
Hari-sauri: But they're all moving.
Prabhupada: It is like a tree, just like this. This is moving, and the sun is moving, and all other planets, they are fixed.
Hari-sauri: How is it we see the moon coming in every day, then?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hari-sauri: How is it that we see the moon moving?
Prabhupada: Moon, that is..., of course, I do not remember, but (laughs) the whole planetary system is moving.
Tamala Krsna: And the sun is fixed, but the whole, it's also moving.
Prabhupada: Yes. Sun is also moving.
Pusta Krsna: Everything is revolving around that polestar?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: Yes.
Jayapataka: Everything is moving around the sun, and the sun is moving around the polestar.
Pusta Krsna: No. Everything is not moving around the sun.
Hari-sauri: Like that tree, if the tree revolves by itself, like that, then the sun(?) is going around the whole thing.
Prabhupada: This is also another intelligent.
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Hari-sauri: The tree is just moving like that, and the different branches, they remain in the same position in relationship to the center of the tree.
Pusta Krsna: But the sun has it's own...
Hari-sauri: But the sun has an orbit around the whole thing...
Pusta Krsna: It's own course.
Hari-sauri: So the whole universe moves around. Every twenty-four hours it does one rotation. And then the sun is also round all that.
Pusta Krsna: Every twenty-four hours?
Prabhupada: The moon.
Gurudasa: Acintya-bhedabheda-tattva.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Gurudasa: It seems to be one and different simultaneously.
Prabhupada: No, no, not like that point. (laughs)
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, are the planets shaped liked balls or more like plates? Because it's, it's hard to understand, 'cause they're called dvipas, "islands." Their roundness is the roundness of a plate or like a ball?
Prabhupada: Which one?
Satsvarupa: The earth planet?
Prabhupada: If it is like a tree, then these things can be as dvipa, island.
Tamala Krsna: Wow. You know...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Tamala Krsna: The scientists are getting smashed to bits by your statements, Srila Prabhupada. This destroys their whole theory. Orbs, round spheres. I think that this Mayapura building, we must build a big planetarium in it.
Prabhupada: Yes. That, that I am going to do, Vedic planetarium.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, boy. You're going to bring a lot of.... A lot of scientists will come here just to dispute this.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Wonderful attraction.
Prabhupada: World people will come to see the way the planetary systems...
Tamala Krsna: We should advertise it very widely that this is the actual, factual explanation of the universe.
Prabhupada: This will be automatically advertised. As soon as the temple is finished, people will come like anything.
Hari-sauri: They're going to need somebody to...
Prabhupada: The thing is, on principle, we shall only go against them.
Hamsaduta: Contrary.
Prabhupada: On principle. Whatever they say "Yes," we say "No." (laughter)
Panca-dravida: What is the explanation of an eclipse?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Panca-dravida: Eclipse.
Prabhupada: Eclipse are.... So that Rahu planet comes to attack the sun and the moon. And when it comes, it becomes dark.
Panca-dravida: How does it attack?
Prabhupada: How do I attack you?
Panca-dravida: When we see part of the moon disappear, what is actually happening?
Prabhupada: Happening, that attack.... Suppose if I come to attack you and if I am in front, then you cannot see.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Like now I can't see.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Just like Prabhupada's.... I'm standing behind him, and when he attacks you, I can't see you.
Nanda-kumara: By the scientist's calculation of what's happening with the revolving, they can predict an eclipse.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Nanda-kumara: They can say in advance when an eclipse will come.
Prabhupada: Well we can also predict.
Panca-dravida: :Yeah. They predicted Lord Caitanya's appearance.
Balavanta: And five thousand years ago, in Kuruksetra, they predicted when Krsna went...
Panca-dravida: So apparently they can predict Rahu's attack also.
Tamala Krsna: That's all right.
Gurudasa: Actually, even the scientists say there is astrological reasons behind Rahu the planet.
Panca-dravida: So they're predicting five thousand years before the scientists. This is the explanation.
Prabhupada: No, when there was no civilization.
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: Eh? They...
Tamala Krsna: There is no civilization five thousand years ago.
Prabhupada: Yes. Three thousand years...
Tamala Krsna: All cavemen.
Prabhupada: ...before, there was no civilization.
Tamala Krsna: I just.... I read that recently in an anthropology book, that 3000 B.C. means five thousand years ago, everyone was living in.... Especially in this part of the world, people were simply living in caves.
Pusta Krsna: English propaganda.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Pusta Krsna: English propaganda.
Tamala Krsna: They had very crude tools for making their things. Practically they were all like animals.
Prabhupada: So how this literature came?
Hari-sauri: Well, they say that it's not older than 1,000, 1,500 years old.
Prabhupada: One thousand.... But where are other literatures like that, 1,500 years, in Europe and other places?
Pusta Krsna: No such thing.
Prabhupada: So only the literatures were here in India?
Panca-dravida: No, they have them. They also have mythology in Greece, and Roman mythology too.
Prabhupada: Mythology maybe, but so purposeful verses, where is in other country?
Panca-dravida: Nowhere.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Balavanta: Bhagavad-gita's philosophy...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Panca-dravida: That they can't match anywhere.
Prabhupada: Then?
Tamala Krsna: How can a caveman make it, then?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Trivikrama: Each verse, so...
Prabhupada: Each rich.... Is it impossible to compose verses by the cavemen? How foolish they are. Not only that, in Mahabharata there are 100,000 verses. In Bhagavata, there are 18,000 verses. In the Puranas... Where is such rich literature? If they were cavemen, wherefrom this literature came?
Satsvarupa: They also said Krsna was a tribal chief. But how could He speak such philosophy?
Prabhupada: How rascal they are.
Panca-dravida: There are a few flaws in the theory.
Prabhupada: The best class of men, the Aryans, and they were worshiping a tribal chief! And what was Arjuna? He was also a tribal chief? Arjuna said that "I become Your disciple." So what was he, that he is submitting to a tribal chief? Sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam tvam prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. And He's teaching Bhagavad-gita?
Lokanatha: Which is being read after five thousand years.
Prabhupada: And still, they cannot assimilate it, so much, so-called civilized men, they cannot understand even the beginning of Bhagavad-gita, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13], that there is transmigration of the soul, these rascals. And who is tribal chief?
Hamsaduta: Just to master the language takes twelve years.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: What to speak of understanding the content.
Jayapataka: [break] ...exhibit the farce of modern science.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Jayapataka: Farce of modern science, and every philosophy and science group, where they are just cheating the public. Then exhibit how Krsna consciousness is showing the real way.
Prabhupada: Yes. So do that in this planetarium.
Panca-dravida: That will be very nice.
Prabhupada: That is...
Gurudasa: Srila Prabhupada, a few years ago I presented an exposition, and in that was a planetarium, and also there was an exhibit called "Man's Relationship with God," which was the alternative to modern anthropology, showing how anthropology is not valid and man's relationship with God is the valid thing, and then regulation is the preventative of the disease, is the alternative to psychology or behaviorism, like that. All these exhibitors can be there, showing how science is false and Krsna consciousness...
Prabhupada: So whatever thoughts are coming, you note it. Keep it. We shall utilize it with reference, with reference to the sastra.
Gurudasa: Jaya. [break]
Jayapataka: This special exhibition building?
Prabhupada: Bhagavata. Take every page of Bhagavata. And I think every year there should be change.
Hamsaduta: New exhibit.
Prabhupada: New exhibit.
Hamsaduta: Otherwise it will become stale.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: 'Cause we have so much material.
Gurudasa: It should be done very easily.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gurudasa: By conveyor belts and...
Prabhupada: No, here, the doll-makers, they can make dolls within fifteen days. Finished. They can do, so expert.
Gurudasa: That should be life-size.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Gurudasa: It should be life-size, like walking into the forest of Naimisaranya.
Prabhupada: Life-size or not life-size. Three feet, four feet, that will be...
Hamsaduta: The old exhibits can be sold to the visiting temples. They can take them back to their...
Prabhupada: No, that is not possible.
Jayapataka: BBT.... BBT did such nice packing with this modern styrofoam that they could easily move even fragile dolls.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] What is that?
Jayapataka: They brought the glass light thing, and they didn't break it, with this plastic foam.
Prabhupada: Oh, oh. That plastic bullet is now in motorcar. Even if you fire, it will not enter, the bullet. Is it not?
Gurudasa: Windows? Plastic in the motorcar?
Pusta Krsna: Bullet-proof glass.
Panca-dravida: Yeah, they have bullet-proof glass.
Gurudasa: They have something in regular cars that if it hits, it won't break.
Hari-sauri: It shatters.
Gurudasa: And in the cars of big men they have bullet-proof glass. [break]
Pusta Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, the devotees.... Satadhanya was asking if there could be a group photograph on the grass this morning after class? For five minutes?
Prabhupada: [break] .... that we are killing vegetables, but actually we are not killing. They are already dead. Hm?
Gurudasa: Also there's a verse in the Bhagavatam that says there may be a fire on the ground, but the seed underneath the ground is still living. The tops may be cut, but the seed is still living. [break]
Prabhupada: ...painting he has made?
Pusta Krsna: He said he would complete it today.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Pusta Krsna: And he'd like to show it to you tomorrow.
Prabhupada: Jaya.
Radhavallabha: [break] They keep putting their pictures there. I keep taking them off.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Radhavallabha: ISKCON Amsterdam keeps putting their pictures up in front of the books. I keep taking them down. They keep putting them up again.
Prabhupada: Hm? Why you are taking?
Radhavallabha: They can't see the books.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Radhavallabha: It's not possible to see the books with the pictures up. They can put them down at the end where there is some room. [break]
Tamala Krsna: [break] Krsna-Balarama.
Pusta Krsna: They're dressed in peacock feathers?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Pusta Krsna: They're dressed in peacock feathers?
Prabhupada: The dress, (indistinct).
Gurudasa: Jaya, Krsna Balarama ki jaya.
Prabhupada: Jaya. Where is that babaji gone? He's not.... [break] (Bengali)
Babaji(?): (Bengali)
Prabhupada: (Bengali conversation) What is this? (Bengali) (end)

 

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Ten-handed Krishna

Mayapura, February 10, 1976

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Prabhupada: Everything is theory. No practical. [break] ...ten direction. Eight direction, corner, and northeast, east-west, and up and down. So everywhere He is present. So Krsna has got ten hands. So my father used to say, "When Krsna takes your money or possession in ten hands, how you can protect it with two hands? And when He give you in ten hands, how much you can take in two hands?" (laughs) So in my case it has become practical. Everything He has taken in ten hands, and now He is giving in ten hands. (laughter) I am practically experiencing. My Guru Maharaja ordered me, "You do this." I was trying to save my business, my family, with two hands, and Krsna took it in ten hands. And now, after making me beggar, He is giving me, ten hands: "You take as much as you like." Now I am thinking of my father's instruction. [break] ...ambition was that I become a great de... bhagavata. That was his... He used to invite so many saintly persons, and he would pray, "Please bless my son" -- I was very pet son -- "that he may become a devotee of Radharani. Radharani may bless him." That was his only prayer.Tamala Krsna: Fulfilled.
Prabhupada: Yes. He was inviting so many saintly persons. That is the old system, to receive saintly person.
Hrdayananda: Srila Prabhupada, you said that you were not so much impressed by the saintly persons that were coming.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hrdayananda: Why was that?
Prabhupada: Not all of them were real Vaisnava. That was my discrimination from the beginning of my life. I never liked these bogus swamis and yogis. I never liked. But my father had no discrimination. "Never mind whatever he is. He is a saintly person. Receive him." He was giving fortnightly... There was one Mayavadi sannyasi in Kalighata. So first of all the father was sannyasi. Then his son was sannyasi. So we had very good relationship with him. I also used to... Because father was going... So he would carry ganja for him -- in those days ganja was very cheap -- so much ganja and so much butter. Whenever he would visit, he'd give some red cloth, ganja, and butter.
Tamala Krsna: Your father would give him ganja?
Prabhupada: That, to sannyasi.
Tamala Krsna: Why?
Prabhupada: Well, he was smoking ganja.
Tamala Krsna: But why did he supply him?
Prabhupada: He did not discriminate that this is bad. He smokes, and he had some regard for him. "All right, take ganja." (laughter)
Hrdayananda: So Krsna is also like that if we...
Prabhupada: He was offering him something, "Whatever he likes." That was his theory.
Tamala Krsna: Friendly.
Prabhupada: Yes. "It doesn't matter." He did not know the ganja smoking was bad for sadhu. That is impression in India. We criticize, but in India, in every sadhu samaj they smoke ganja.
Tamala Krsna: Still?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Not high class. These bogus swamis and yogis. They...
Tamala Krsna: Yes, that Mr. Das, the lawyer who came here?
Prabhupada: Ah.
Tamala Krsna: I used to visit him, and he had one sadhu who used to come who was his guru, and he would also smoke ganja.
Prabhupada: Yes. Ganja smoking is not taken as bad in India, by the sadhus, not ordinary men.
Tamala Krsna: Right. He told me, Mr. Das, that it increased his meditation and ecstasy.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, ganja smoking by the sadhus, sannyasis, is not taken very bad serious. The hippies learned from them. Allen Ginsberg introduced... "Yes. Ganja smoking is very good by the saintly person."
Tamala Krsna: I think your Guru Maharaja spoke strongly against such persons.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. And from him we learned that intoxication, any kind of intoxication, is bad.
Tamala Krsna: Bhaktivinoda Thakura also was...
Prabhupada: He was also not very serious, but Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura was very serious, and we learned from him. No, it is sastriya. No intoxication is good.
Tamala Krsna: How is it that Bhaktivinoda Thakura was not so strict in that regard, yet his son, who learned from him, became very strict, like a rod?
Prabhupada: (chuckles) Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura was so strict (laughs) that because he married twice, he used to say, "stri-sangi, attached to woman," even his father. (laughter) He was very strict. Sometimes when he would be angry, he'd, "You stri-sangi." And don't discuss this thing. (laughs) He was very strict. No excuse, no compromise.
Tamala Krsna: That's where you got all of that from.
Prabhupada: My is imitation, but his was real. (laughs) All these Navadvipa people were afraid of him.
Tamala Krsna: Afraid.
Prabhupada: Strong-hearted. They made a, what is called, conspiracy to kill him.
Hrdayananda: Who did this?
Prabhupada: Oh, the Navadvipa gosvamis. They raised 25,000 rupees and wanted to bribe this police officer that "You take this money. We shall finish him. Don't take any action."
Tamala Krsna: But the policeman said?
Prabhupada: Refused. "Yes, we take bribe, but not in such cases."
Tamala Krsna: Why?
Prabhupada: "He's a saintly person. We cannot agree to that." Everyone knows police takes bribe. They admit, "Yes, we take bribe, but not in such cases." This was told by Guru Maharaja, Bhaktisi..., to me. He was talking many things confidential.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, what is that story that one time Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati was invited to... He wanted to get invitation or he was invited to speak and they put so many conditions on his speaking. It was some place.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: They said, "Now you cannot speak on such and such subject." He agreed, "All right."
Prabhupada: I think there was a Vaisnava meeting inaugurated by Maharaja Manindranandi. You are referring to that. [break] When I was visiting, I used to sit on his couch. Yes, like... Guru Maharaja was sitting on the couch, so I took him as ordinary gentleman. So then nobody asked me that, that "You are sitting? Get down." No. Nobody asked me. Then I was seeing that all other big, big disciples, they are sitting down. So then I began to sit down. Neither Guru Maharaja told me, neither anybody told me.
Tamala Krsna: What kind of a... It was a regular couch...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: ...or a cauki?
Prabhupada: Yes. Not cauki, couch. That padded couch, bench.
Hrdayananda: Sofa.
Prabhupada: Sofa, sofa, yes.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, boy. You were a young man at that time.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: But no one said anything.
Prabhupada: Not very young. It was in 19... Yes.
Tamala Krsna: 1923?
Prabhupada: No. '23, of course, when I first met him, he was sitting ground. I was also. At Mathura there was party, parikrama party, in 1933. So I went to see that party, what they are doing, Gaudiya Matha, out of inquisitiveness.
Tamala Krsna: It was at that time.
Prabhupada: Hm hm.
Tamala Krsna: You mentioned once that most of the parikrama devotees, they wanted to go on parikrama but he was speaking?
Prabhupada: Yes. So I did not go to parikrama, so he very much appreciated. There was announcement that "Now parikrama will start in the evening at five, and Prabhupada also will speak. So anyone who wants to hear Prabhupada, he can stay. Otherwise be ready for going." So about a dozen men remained, and all went to parikrama. So I was at that time new man -- not exactly new man, but not recognized disciple. I did not go. So he saw that I am sitting, I did not go to parikrama. He very much appreciated. I preferred to hear him than go to parikrama. That he appreciated.
Hari-sauri: That was the same time that you took initiation?
Prabhupada: Yes. After that, I took initiation.
Tamala Krsna: Where was the initiation ceremony?
Prabhupada: That Allahabad.
Tamala Krsna: In Allahabad.
Prabhupada: 1933.
Tamala Krsna: So from Mathura everyone went to Allahabad?
Prabhupada: Yes, or they went to somewhere. But I came back. From Allahabad I went to Mathura, and I came back to Allahabad at my own place.
Tamala Krsna: Initiation was held at that Gaudiya Matha in Allahabad?
Prabhupada: Hah. At that time that Gaudiya Matha also not there. That is at a rented house.
Tamala Krsna: Did you help to build that one?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Tamala Krsna: Did you help to establish that Gaudiya Matha?
Prabhupada: No, majority was paid by one of my Godbrothers, that three thousand, purchasing land. Then gradually developed. We used to pay something. [break] ...before to here?
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah. He has come many times, Tarun Babu.
Prabhupada: He came many times? (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura

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The Fighting Philosophy

Mayapura, February 6, 1976

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Hrdayananda: ...absorbed in thinking that, for example, in this material world a sunset is very nice or something is very nice. But if, for example, in Mayapura is a devotee free to, for example, enjoy the, all the scenery without...Prabhupada: Do you think Mayapura is material world?
Hrdayananda: No.
Prabhupada: Then? Why you are asking?
Hrdayananda: That is what I was thinking, that this is...
Prabhupada: Dhama. Therefore it is called dhama. Dhama means not material world. Goloka-dhama, Vrndavana-dhama. So dhama is not material world. (aside:) Not to go away. [break] ...visible with these eyes, similarly, dhama also is not visible with these eyes. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. That is dhama. Premanjana.
Jagadisa: [break] In Toronto, Srila Prabhupada... When we purchased the new church in Toronto we sold all the church pews. And Billy Graham... Do you know who Billy Graham is? He's an Evangelist preacher in the United States. He sometimes went to that church to preach. So when we sold the pews we would tell people that "Billy Graham sat in this pew," and they would become excited to purchase.
Prabhupada: So it was sold in good price?
Jagadisa: Yes.
Prabhupada: (laughs) That's nice.
Hrdayananda: As you are always saying, Prabhupada, these people are not becoming purified. This one man who Jagadisa mentioned, he's the most famous Christian preacher practically in the Western world. Now he's becoming older, about sixty. Recently they asked him that "If you could live your life again, would you live the same life or a different life?" So he said, "I am very sorry because I spent too much of my time preaching. I should have spent more time with my family."
Tamala Krsna: Oh, he actually said that?
Hrdayananda: Yes. At the end of life this is his...
Tamala Krsna: He's the foremost Christian preacher in the world right now, Prabhupada.
Hrdayananda: He said, "I accepted too many invitations to go preach. I should have spent time with my family."
Tamala Krsna: That will make him more popular, and they'll say he's more religious.
Hrdayananda: [break] ...already left to preach.
Prabhupada: Oh, that's nice. [break] Eh? Dhunvanti, agham dhunvanti kartsnyena niharam iva bhaskarah.(?) This is Krsna. In one second He can make it purified. Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah [Bg. 18.66]. Simply surrender.
Tamala Krsna: It seems like our desire not to surrender is very powerful because Krsna is so...
Prabhupada: Not powerful. Yes, powerful.
Tamala Krsna: Krsna is so powerful and yet our nonsense is so strong that we can resist such a powerful force as Krsna's love.
Prabhupada: Now the whole sky clear, hundreds of miles. [break] ...all right? Where is in-charge? [break] ...and clan spirit. Aborigines, they fight amongst their clans.
Hrdayananda: Aborigines?
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like Africa.
Hrdayananda: Prabhupada? You wrote in a letter to Bhagavan... You said that originally the Europeans had Aryan-type culture but they have become degraded.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. They are still Aryan. Europeans are Aryan, Indo-Aryan. That is admitted in history.
Hrdayananda: You said that they became degraded by associating, by bad...
Prabhupada: Yes, by association with these aborigines.
Hrdayananda: Who were the aborigines they associated with?
Prabhupada: Everywhere there were aborigines. In India there are still aborigines, adivasi.
Tamala Krsna: You were saying, Prabhupada, the Huns.
Prabhupada: Huns.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Huns. They were considered like that?
Prabhupada: Yes. Huns are also lower than the sudras, candalas, dog-eaters, animal-eaters. And these Europeans historians, they take the aborigines, their original father.
Tamala Krsna: Their what, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Original father.
Tamala Krsna: You said, "Yes, they are your original father."
Prabhupada: No, no. "The aborigines, the naked jangalis, they were original person." Do they not?
Tamala Krsna: Before that, there was the caveman.
Prabhupada: Ah, caveman. That's... Caveman. That is aborigine.
Tamala Krsna: And before the caveman was the missing link.
Prabhupada: And he has known missing link.
Tamala Krsna: They don't know who they're missing, 'cause he's missing.
Prabhupada: Just see the imagination, fanatic imagination. He is creating...
Tamala Krsna: Species.
Prabhupada: ...a theory, a species.
Tamala Krsna: Missing link species. And they have... They have models of this missing link.
Prabhupada: They know it; still "missing."
Tamala Krsna: Although it's missing...
Prabhupada: "Missing" means they know only, "Oh, he knows."
Hrdayananda: When I was preaching in California, one very famous anthropologist came to speak there, and he gave a new theory about the origin of the species. So he said... Before the audience he said that "Actually we have very little evidence of this theory."
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hrdayananda: He said that "We have very little evidence for this theory," but he said that "All of you should not be disturbed because our previous theory, we had no evidence whatsoever. [laughter] So this is an improvement."
Prabhupada: He admitted. "Previous theory, that was nonsense," and still the nonsense going on.
Tamala Krsna: "So don't be disturbed."
Prabhupada: Yes. "So you are dealing with all nonsense. Don't be disappointed."
Hrdayananda: Another professor, he was very, a world famous geneticist, professor of genetics. I remember, when I was a student there, he was always trying to prove that there was no God. That was his mission. So he was in so much anxiety-he's an older man -- that he would simply stand up every day and shake. During the whole class he was actually shaking with anxiety. He could hardly speak. He was famous scientist.
Prabhupada: Why he was shaking?
Hrdayananda: He was in so much anxiety. He was very, very nervous. He would just shake, always trying to prove there is no God.
Prabhupada: [break] ...their society, and they are advocating, "No temple or Deity worship." So one boy, so he was a member of this society. So there is Sitala-mata, the goddess of smallpox. So he had some trouble in the house, smallpox. So he thought of going to the Sitala-mata's temple. So he's entering the temple and seeing in this way, "Mother, I am your devotee but they will tax me. Therefore I am going out." (laughter) Hare Krsna. So this man, he is afraid of God, but he has to preach there is no God. So he was feeble.
Hrdayananda: In every class he would smoke at least four or five cigarettes. He was so nervous. [break]
Prabhupada: The living entity is victimized, and in this life you can adventure to conquer over it. This is human life. The cats and dogs, they cannot fight with maya, but a human being, he can fight. So if we don't fight, we don't take that adventure, then we remain cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they fight amongst themselves but not with the maya. So aborigines, although they have got features of human being, they are no more than the cats and dogs. So they also fight amongst themselves. They do not know that the fighting spirit should be utilized to declare war against maya. That is possible in human life. Athato brahma jijnasa. This fighting is philosophy. "What is the ultimate cause? What is Brahman? What I am?" Fighting against darkness, sleeping. Kota nidra jao maya-pisacira kole. Everyone is sleeping on the lap of maya. Now, this human form of life is not for sleeping but for awakening and fight with maya. That is human life. [break] You were reading the other day why the sun changes color after rising?
Jagadisa: The refraction of the light rays.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hrdayananda: He said that the light rays pass through the clouds, and this diverts the light rays in different ways.
Prabhupada: So where is the cloud?
Jagadisa: Not necessarily a cloud.
Dayananda: Through the atmosphere, the air.
Indian man (1): Atmosphere density is different, so it changes.
Prabhupada: Density?
Jagadisa: When it is directly overhead...
Prabhupada: Oh, it is fixed up. Why it should change?
Jagadisa: When it's directly overhead, there is...
Prabhupada: No, no, overhead means it has gone. If it is fixed, why it should change color?
Tamala Krsna: We have gone; it has not.
Jagadisa: It changes color to us. It doesn't change color. To our eyes...
Prabhupada: Why?
Jagadisa: ...the color changes.
Prabhupada: Why?
Jagadisa: Because our eyes are not so..., are blunt.
Hrdayananda: They say because the light rays...
Prabhupada: No, no. If the sun is fixed, so why our eyes will change? If we see in the beginning, as you see, it is red, and it is fixed, it should remain red.
Hrdayananda: They say the atmosphere changes.
Jagadisa: The light of the sun filters through the...
Prabhupada: Atmosphere changes? Where is atmosphere changes? It is the same atmosphere. We saw in red and the atmosphere same.
Jagadisa: Angle.
Hari-sauri: According to your angle of vision.
Indian man (1): Medium. Medium. Prabhupada, there is...
Prabhupada: Yes, you are all scientists I know. Please talk with one body. What is that?
Jagadisa: There's an angle...
Prabhupada: (laughter) All rascals. Scientists means all rascals. That I know. You haven't got to explain. I am trying to understand that if the sun is... Suppose a red light is fixed. So red light is always red light. Why it should be white? What is the cause?
Jagadisa: They say there's a spec...
Prabhupada: "They say." What you say? What you have understood?
Jagadisa: There's a spectrum of different colors which, combined together, is white light, but when the light bends, the different colors of light bend at different angles so that the...
Prabhupada: Why the light bends? I am a crude man; I am not scientist. I say I see one red light there. So it is always red. Why it should be white?
Jagadisa: But the sunlight...
Prabhupada: Again "sunlight." Please explain this. The light is fixed, and it is reddish. So why it should change?
Jagadisa: Only part of the light reaches us, the red part, not all the...
Prabhupada: Anyway, the color changes.
Jagadisa: Because in the beginning, when the sun is red, only the red part of the light spectrum reaches our eyes.
Prabhupada: Oh. That means it is moving. Red part is gone. Then white part comes.
Jagadisa: Then, when the rest of the light reaches our eyes it becomes white.
Tamala Krsna: They say we are moving. It is not moving; we are moving.
Prabhupada: I am moving.
Tamala Krsna: The earth is turning. The sun is...
Hrdayananda: They also say the sun is moving.
Tamala Krsna: But very slowly. They say the earth is turning, so you see the sun as moving, but actually you are moving. Just like if you are in a car and you are moving, it may appear that just as... Sometimes you can see another object...
Prabhupada: But that's all... But why the color should change? That is point. You may move...
Tamala Krsna: Because, he's explaining, that light is seen when it bends... White light when it bends at different angles...
Prabhupada: That is only applicable when you accept that the sun is moving. Therefore atmosphere is going...
Tamala Krsna: No, the earth is moving.
Jagadisa: They say the earth is turning. Therefore at a certain point the sun is actually below the horizon, but part of the sun's light, the red spectral, the red light of the sun, comes over the horizon and so the sun appears...
Tamala Krsna: Red, but actually it's not reddish; it's white or yellow, whatever.
Prabhupada: Actually it is white, that's all right, but if you see one fixed thing, a color, practical experience is the color does not change if it is fixed up.
Tamala Krsna: Supposing you are... Supposing there's a white light, and you are situated here, and in front of you is a screen with many colors, and you are moving different ways along this screen. Sometimes you are looking through a green, sometimes... in that way although the light is fixed up, because you are moving behind different colors...
Prabhupada: So where is that screen?
Jagadisa: That's called the spectrum.
Prabhupada: Spectrum. So where is that? That is also finished?
Hrdayananda: The atmosphere is.
Dayananda: The atmosphere is the screen.
Jagadisa: As the spectrum hits the atmosphere, it bends.
Dayananda: Just like a prism, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Then the speed of the earth changes. Eh? In the morning you see the sun is very slowly rising, either sun's speed or your speed. But now you see it is rising very quickly.
Jagadisa: That's explained that because the sun... Actually you can see it before it appears over the horizon because the light rays reach our eyes before the sun actually comes up.
Hrdayananda: But that's only eight minutes' difference. That won't explain it, because the light rays reach in eight minutes. That won't explain it. That would only cause an eight-minute difference.
Jagadisa: No, no, no. No, it's not because of the time it takes. It's because of... The light rays bend. So they bend towards us before the sun comes up.
Tamala Krsna: You can't actually see the sun. You're seeing only a...
Hrdayananda: Prabhupada said, "But it rises so quickly."
Jagadisa: Huh? Then, once it comes up over the horizon, we see it rise at its normal pace.
Hrdayananda: Doesn't explain. Word jugglery. [break]
Prabhupada: ...fixed. [break]
Indian man (1): Fixed?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian man (1): Is not moving around the earth?
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: It's further away from us than the sun and twice as big as the sun. Ask Prabhupada how big is the moon.
Indian man (1): Prabhupada, how big is this moon? Is much more bigger than this?
Prabhupada: You can see in the Fifth Canto. There is.
Hrdayananda: That means that maya is just like a magician.
Prabhupada: Yes, certainly. Therefore it is called maya. Maya means magician. Maya means... maya means affection, maya means illusion, magician, so many things -- strength, potency.
Jagadisa: Srila Prabhupada, what is your explanation why the sun changes colors?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Jagadisa: What is your explanation as to why the sun changes colors?
Prabhupada: Sun is moving. You are seeing through some color. Then it is color.
Jagadisa: Seeing through some color.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like there are... In your window there is glass, red. So sun is passing; you say sun red. And again it has come; it is white. That is our...
Tamala Krsna: So the scientists say the same thing except they say that the earth is moving, not the sun. Same explanation you have given for the colors, they give, except that they say that the earth that is moving, not the sun. They wouldn't accept that point as a proof that the sun is moving.
Prabhupada: No, sun is moving because the earth and the sun... The distance is the same, but you can calculate the distance from the rising up to the... It is millions, millions of miles. So unless the sun is moving, the earth cannot move so swiftly.
Jagadisa: They are always the same distance apart?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Jagadisa: The earth and the sun are always the same distance apart?
Prabhupada: Same distance is to be supposed according to your theory, because sun is fixed.
Jagadisa: According to our theory.
Prabhupada: Yes. The same distance. But you calculate that how quickly it comes. You calculate the distance.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, how can the earth move so quickly?
Jagadisa: The earth is just spinning around.
Hrdayananda: Yes, they would say that that is not from the..., that is not from the earth moving around the sun. That is from the earth rotating.
Tamala Krsna: Rotating on its axis.
Hrdayananda: And turning different sides, different faces to the sun.
Tamala Krsna: And that's possible. That speed the earth could do.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: That much speed the earth could do, simply to turn around on its own...
Prabhupada: No, no.
Hrdayananda: That's rotation.
Tamala Krsna: That's rotation, it's not an orbit.
Jagadisa: Like a top, spinning.
Indian man (1): From its axis.
Hrdayananda: So they say the earth is spinning around so fast.
Tamala Krsna: Why doesn't it fall off? That's another point, Prabhupada. The earth is spinning, they say, but it's tilted on one side. So why it doesn't fall over?
Prabhupada: This earth?
Tamala Krsna: Scientists say the earth is like this.
Indian man (1): Yes. Making an angle, Prabhupada, spinning around its axis.
Tamala Krsna: My question is how something doesn't fall, just fall over? Like a top. If you spin a top, when it starts spinning on its side it falls over.
Jagadisa: But so far space is concerned, they don't see that there's a top or a bottom where it can fall.
Tamala Krsna: Then why do they say axis? Axis means there's a top and a bottom.
Prabhupada: [ ...by mental platform, on the mental plane.
Jagadisa: When I was in the university I took a course...
Prabhupada: [break] Yes. The same example. This was spoken by one scientist in Delhi, that if a man has learned how to imitate the dog barking, people will go to see him by purchasing ticket. But he won't hear the dog, real dog, barking. So we are like that. We are trying to imitate dog.
Tamala Krsna: Is it here, Jayapataka? Yes, here.
Prabhupada: [break] ...fective, what you can see from the observatory?
Tamala Krsna: That's why they use a telescope, to make their eyes perfect.
Prabhupada: Everything is imperfect.
Hrdayananda: Telescope also imperfect.
Tamala Krsna: With the help of the telescope, then their eyes become perfect to an extent.
Prabhupada: To ext... That is not perfect. As soon as you say, "to extent," that means imperfect. Perfect to the point, that is perfect.
Tamala Krsna: Limitedly perfect.
Prabhupada: That is not perfect.
Tamala Krsna: Your philosophy will be very unpopular with the general masses, Prabhupada, because you are condemning everyone.
Prabhupada: Yes, because they are fools and rascals.
Hrdayananda: No, but Prabhupada presents it so nicely that people will like it.
Indian man (1): Especially...
Tamala Krsna: That's true, Prabhupada. Sometimes you call them "rascal" to their face, and they like it.
Jagadisa: That's what happened to us.
Indian man (1): Especially Indians. Lot of people like strong words. This rascal means...
Tamala Krsna: In America it's not such a strong word. In America that word "rascal" is not so strong as in India. In India when you use that word, they become very offended.
Indian man (1): Yes. Very strong.
Dayananda: In America they like to be rascal.
Hrdayananda: In America if the father chastises the child, he calls him "rascal."
Tamala Krsna: It has a nice connotation.
Prabhupada: [break] mayara adhikara. Now the ruling of this, what is called, fog is finished.
Tamala Krsna: Night also.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Tamala Krsna: Night also?
Prabhupada: Yes. Everything darkness finished. The sky is clear.
Hrdayananda: The fog was just on the ground. It wasn't up...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hrdayananda: I saw in the morning the fog was low but it was not high up.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, it is finished, high or low. Explain that there is such-and-such things in the sun, eh? They say?
Hrdayananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: Then why do they not manufacture another imitation sun? If they know what is the composition.
Hrdayananda: They're so puffed up that they think that actually the credit is to them for discovering. Just like they...
Prabhupada: Where is discovering? It is covering.
Hrdayananda: They give the example that if a tree falls in the forest and there is no man there to hear it, then actually it has not fallen.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hrdayananda: This is a philosophical example which is... This is the most common example they give, that if a tree falls in the forest but there is no man there, there is no one there to hear it, then actually it has never happened. Unless someone perceives it, then it does not exist. So they feel that when they discover something, at that time it begins to exist by their becoming conscious of it.
Prabhupada: What is that explanation?
Tamala Krsna: So if you're sleeping and I kill you and you weren't conscious that I was killing you, then you're still alive?
Prabhupada: You are not killed. Then it comes as a... You can go to the court: "It is not killed."
Hrdayananda: They will say that... No, I will say. I will take the part of the rascal.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hrdayananda: I'll be the rascal. "No, actually I am killed, because even though I may not be conscious of it, someone is conscious of it. As long as someone must be... Just when something... It is necessary that someone be conscious of it."
Tamala Krsna: No, supposing in the woods. You're in the woods and I kill you during your sleep. There is no other human being there.
Hrdayananda: "But you were conscious of it. You were conscious of my death, so therefore my death is a fact."
Prabhupada: Then in the forest there are no animals?
Hrdayananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: They cannot... They are not conscious?
Hrdayananda: Well, if an animal hears, that's all right also. As long as someone is conscious.
Prabhupada: In the forest there are many animals, hundreds and thousands. They are conscious that tree has fallen. Then?
Hrdayananda: Then it would also be acceptable. As long as some living being has...
Prabhupada: Then what is this? Everywhere someone is conscious. There is no vacancy. So this is useless talking, fool's talk.
Hrdayananda: In the outer space there is no consciousness.
Prabhupada: Who says? The fools say. There are consciousness. There are so many birds flying from one planet...
Hrdayananda: Higher up.
Prabhupada: Higher means it is higher for you because you are so dwarf. You are so dwarfed, you'll find that this tree is very big tree. You see? A small dwarf man, a pigmy, he'll say, "Oh, it is a big tree." So it is all relative. What is called? Relative world? Higher and lower, this is all relativity. You are so low that you see a tiny thing very high. It is due to your lowerness. Where there is no tree, these trees will be considered: "Oh, very high tree." So your scientists and your appreciator, all, they are like tiny dwarfs. What do they know about the universal affair? That is their fault. They are so small... That, the same example, Dr. Frog, calculating Atlantic Ocean. This is the fault. They do not consider their position. Just like there are thousands of ants. We can immediately kill them. And they are thinking they are very big, the ants, that "We are very busy. We are very big." So these rascals' position is like that. If the devatas in higher planets like, all the population of this material, this earth, they can kill like this-finish. Just like we can kill the ants.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, in the Sixth Canto, second part, I haven't read it yet, but I saw a picture of a big demon who was fighting, and everyone else was just like little ants.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. That was described in some English book, the man?
Hari-sauri: Gulliver's Travels.
Bhavananda: Gulliver's Travels.
Prabhupada: Ha, ha, yes. These rascals, they do not know there is Gulliver. They are thinking very big.
Bhavananda: Also, Srila Prabhupada, when there is some natural calamity... Like I read in the newspaper, four thousand people were killed immediately in Guatemala.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhavananda: That is also the demigods?
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, greater than you, you admit it, demigods or God or anything. But why you are thinking yourself so big? That is your fault. That is foolishness. I am a big man amongst a small, tiny living entities. But why you are thinking you are biggest of all, you can understand everything? That is your fault. This is the folly of the conditioned soul. He is nothing. He has no value. Still, he is thinking he is very great. Everything is big and small relatively. Just like here if one man has got 100,000 rupees, he's a big man. But what is 100,000 rupees in America? Nothing.
Tamala Krsna: One year's salary for an average man.
Hrdayananda: A worker.
Prabhupada: Yes. Lakhpati. Here they call, lakhpati. Lakhpati means owner of 100,000 rupees.
Tamala Krsna: Lakhpati.
Prabhupada: So what is this lakhpati there?
Tamala Krsna: This fog appears just like an ocean, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Yes. Oh, yes.
Tamala Krsna: It looks just like the ocean.
Prabhupada: Frozen. Frozen ocean. Means they are defeated; they are coming down. By the sun they are defeated. They were high. "Now go down." Now it will be finished.
Tamala Krsna: Burnt off. [break] What is the way to draw the line between the following three things: blasphemy, fault-finding, and calling a spade a spade?
Prabhupada: A spade a spade... Just like I am saying that "What you are? You are small fig only." That is reality. And what is the other?
Tamala Krsna: The other is fault-finding and...
Prabhupada: Fault-finding, that is another fault, that... vranam icchanti, maksika vranam icchanti, madhum icchanti(?) Just like the flies, they are finding out where is sore, and the bees, they are finding out where there is honey. So two animals, they have got two business: fault-finding and collecting the good things. These are two... Just like creature. They are two classes. Similarly, there are many rascals who are simply fault-finding.
Tamala Krsna: And blasphemy?
Prabhupada: Blasphemy means you have good qualities, but still, I am defaming you.
Tamala Krsna: So the saintly person tends to overlook the bad qualities and see the good ones.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Like Krsna's dealing with Putana.
Prabhupada: Yes. Hundreds and thousands of miles, this fog, simply by two minutes' light of the sun -- finished. [break] ...working. If there was no sun, then so many ships are standing on the ocean. The cars, they are "bong, bong, bong, bong," so many disturbances. You see? You cannot do anything. Daivi hy esa gunamayi [Bg. 7.14]. What you can do? Immediately He can kill you all. Thousands of planets immediately finished. Bring your science to protect them. No, not possible. Mare krsna rakhe ke. When Krsna desires to vanquish, nobody can save you. Finished. Still, these rascals say, "There is no God." Simply rascals. At least expose these rascals. We have no power to kill them, but at least we can expose them. That is also great service.
Hrdayananda: Sometimes, Prabhupada, when we expose them, their argument is, "Oh, you are a saintly person. Why are you criticizing me?"
Prabhupada: No, it is not criticizing. It is opening your eyes. You are blind, you are thinking yourself as very big, so we are opening eyes. You are not big. You are not even pig or fig. That is... ajnana-timirandhasya jnananjana-salakaya. You are blind with ignorance, so we are trying to open your eyes. See things as they are. It is favoring you. It is not criticizing you. [break]...words, vibhu, the great, and anu, the small. So these rascals, they do not understand these two important words, "God is great; I am small." They think, "I am as good as God." This is the folly. [break] ...English proverb? "Where angels dare not, the fools rush in." Eh?
Hrdayananda: "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."
Prabhupada: So the angels, Lord Brahma, Lord Siva, they are offering their obeisances, and these rascals are claiming, "I am God." How great rascals they are. Siva-virinci-nutam [SB 11.5.33]. Siva-virinci-nutam. Lord Siva, Lord Brahma, they are offering their respects, and these things are: "I am equal with God." This Mayavada philosophy. Mudhas.
Dayananda: Srila Prabhupada, that tendency to be puffed up seems to be so strong, as soon as they get just a little bit of so-called qualification, then they... Everyone is becoming puffed up, even great personalities like Lord Indra and Lord Brahma.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dayananda: What to speak of all the...
Prabhupada: Lord Brahma is also one of the living entities.
Dayananda: So how is it possible that... We're so insignificant, but at the same time we become so puffed up? How is it possible for us...?
Prabhupada: That is material consciousness, that you are nothing you are thinking very big. That is material consciousness. And as soon as you become Krsna conscious, you'll simply think, "Krsna is great; we are nothing, insignificant." That is Krsna consciousness. And so long you think that you are independent of Krsna -- you are also another Krsna -- then you are fool, rascal. Mudho 'yam nabhijanati loko mam ajam avyayam [Bg. 7.25].
Hrdayananda: That's our madness.
Prabhupada: Madness. The whole world is going on on this foolish understanding. Therefore they have been described, mudha, all rascals. Anyone who is thinking, "There is no God, there is no Krsna, it may be He is impersonal, there is no personality, and I am equal to Him" -- these are all rascals, fools.
Dayananda: So actually there is no way to become detached.
Prabhupada: The only way is that you become Krsna conscious.
Dayananda: Except through Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. Mam eva ye prapadyante. You surrender to Krsna and everything will be clear, just like as soon as the sun rises, everything is clear, no covering. That is our propaganda, that you become Krsna conscious; then you become fully aware of everything. Otherwise you remain rascal, fools, gadha, asses. If you prefer to remain asses, you can do so, but we are servant of Krsna. We must preach real, reality.
Dayananda: Even the jnanis and yogis become...
Prabhupada: What is these jnanis? They are also another rascal, another edition of rascals. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Therefore so-called jnanis, after many, many births' practical realization, they surrender to Krsna. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma [Bg. 7.19]. Then he understands that Krsna is everything. But such great person is very, very rare. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah, very, very rare.
Dayananda: But what about the persons who may be a little bit devoted but who have not achieved that unalloyed devotion?
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari. They are not devotees, but they are called bhaktabhasa. There is some signs of bhakti. Actually they are not bhakta. Bhaktabhasa. Abhasa. Abhasa means a simple, a little light.
Hrdayananda: So devotee really means one who has love for Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes, unalloyed, without any condition. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11], zero, all other, that "I am this, I am that, I am jnani, I am yogi, I am karmi, I am minister, I am king" -- all these are thinking like that, they're all nonsense. "I am servant of Krsna" -- that is greatness. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is self-realization, atma-tattvam.
Dayananda: So because that person is very rare, then, I guess, the only way we can possibly know how to become like that is to find one pure devotee and exactly follow that way of Krsna

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura

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