Revatinandana: This is the Sixth
Chapter Bhagavad-gita? Is that what you're quoting?Prabhupada: No, this is
in Bhagavata.
Revatinandana: I see. But that seeing...
Prabhupada: That seeing is not ananda. Seeing is ananda, undoubtedly, but seeing and talking and becoming friend, that is higher. Friend or conjugal lover, father, mother. That kind of seeing is different.
Revatinandana: If that yogi quits his body in that condition, does he attain a Vaikuntha planet?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Revatinandana: [break] Is it possible that if he was... This is a question that sometimes a devotee has asked me. If a yogi does attain a Vaikuntha planet, but by his constitutional nature he is meant to be associated with Krsna in Goloka...
Prabhupada: No, why not with Visnu. Vaikuntha is Visnu, Narayana. That is also... But there Narayana is worshiped with awe and veneration. He is God. No friendship as in Vrndavana. That is not possible. Vipralambha-sakhya. Aisvarya, aisvarya, opulence. There the Supreme Lord is taken in aisvarya, opulences. Not aisvarya-sthiti. In Vrndavana the devotees, they practically do not know that Krsna is God. "He is our very beloved friend." That's all. They doesn't care to know whether He is God or not. Here the conception of God. Vaikuntha, "Oh, here is God," with awe and veneration, respect.
Revatinandana: That I understand. The question is suppose this yogi, he has not got full knowledge, he does not know of Krsna, and therefore he is meditating on Paramatma, and he attains Vaikuntha. Is it possible that because he hadn't got full knowledge...
Prabhupada: No, he has to go, simply by Paramatma conception, he cannot go to Vaikuntha.
Revatinandana: Can he later go on from Vaikuntha to Goloka? Can that happen also?
Prabhupada: Yes, there is such instances, can go.
Revatinandana: But if a devotee knows Krsna, if he knows of Krsna, then wherever he is destined, he will go perfectly to his perfect position. Just like Bhisma knew Krsna...
Prabhupada: Mad-yajino yanti mam. Krsna devotees, they go directly, especially those who are worshiping Krsna through Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They directly go to Krsnaloka.
Revatinandana: What about like the case of Bhismadeva where he knew about Krsna in Goloka, and he went to Krsna as Partha-sarathi.
Prabhupada: No, Krsna... He understood Krsna as Narayana. He will go to Vaikuntha, Bhismadeva.
Revatinandana: But he had full knowledge of everything as a mahajana. He knew also...
Prabhupada: But he loved Narayana, Catur-bhuja.
Revatinandana: Yes, that was his constitutional position. That's all right.
Prabhupada: Just like sometimes madhurya-rasa is the greatest humor...
Revatinandana: Who?
Prabhupada: Madhurya-rasa, conjugal love. But still, there are devotees who prefer parental love, friendly love. That is liking. Everyone has got his own liking. But they are all the same, all the same. There is no difference between Krsna devotee and Narayana devotee. They are all the... But it is their liking, varieties of liking.
Revatinandana: Another related question that also arose... These come in Bhagavata class with the devotees because they think about the questions and sometimes they come up with nice ones. When Krsna is incarnating in His plenary incarnations like Varaha, Nrsimha, like that...
Prabhupada: That is in this material world.
Revatinandana: Yes. And sometimes devotees become devoted to those forms. Are there corresponding planets in Vaikuntha for those forms of incarnation? Is there a planet of Nrsimha or Nrsimha-loka in the Vaikuntha sphere?
Prabhupada: So far (I) know, those planets are here within this material world.
Revatinandana: Wherever He is appearing.
Prabhupada: Hm. Even Ramacandra's. So far I have...
Revatinandana: On all the Vaikunthas, Krsna is in His catur-bhuja, four-armed form?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Revatinandana: But those devotees will eventually go there. Those kind of devotees like devotees of Sita-Rama, they will also attain the spiritual sky in their various positions.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Revatinandana: All right. Thank you very much. (offers obeisances)
Prabhupada: What is this?
Janaki: One is rice and the other bada.
Prabhupada: What are there?
Janaki: Milk, hot.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Janaki: I think that other thing was not a good idea.
Prabhupada: No, it was too cold.
Janaki: Yes, it reduces heat. I will bring some hot pepper.
Prabhupada: [break] ...is taking place. The rascal Darwin says that it is coming from monkey. Why the monkey does not produce a human being? All rascals. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-gunah. Simply rascals. His name is Neiman?
Pradyumna: Couldn't get his last, Ruby something.
Prabhupada: Ruby, that...
Pradyumna: He is a very nice gentleman. He appreciated Bhagavad-gita. He said right away, very...
Prabhupada: Yes...
Pradyumna: My wife's typing up all your lectures. She has finished L.A. lectures. Now she is typing Mayapura lectures, this lecture, that lecture. She has permanent machine and typewriter and apartment. So she types all during the day and she minds the child. And then it is in the same apartment.
Prabhupada: Attending class also?
Pradyumna: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Pradyumna: They live now across the street, in the temple apartments.
Prabhupada: In our house?
Pradyumna: Yes.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Pradyumna: Typing.
Prabhupada: Now this house will facilitate our business. Just opposite the temple. So round about. Therefore I asked him, "Purchase these houses, purchase." Never mind. So that is not lost. They were paying rent elsewhere. They can pay here. We get our permanent tenants.
Pradyumna: Yes. All children live there too. It is very nice.
Prabhupada: So these houses. Now we have got four or five houses. Two houses of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust and three houses of M.V. Trust.
Pradyumna: It will be a city. It's so nice, all the children live there together. Next door there is Baladeva, that little boy with red hair. Aniruddha, he is blond hair and another boy with red hair, he is next door. He is best friend. They always play, all boys.
Prabhupada: Hm. And in the front house, there is ample space back there for children's play. This will facilitate... Very nice. And then one house after, there is another house.
Pradyumna: Yes, up on the street, on our side of street.
Prabhupada: Hm. Watseka. And that is Venice. On Venice we have got two house. The real estate men, they think of us -- very, very rich. (laughs) After purchasing these houses. Here also, we can have very nice colony, in this village. There are so many land, houses are for sale. If we can organize. Now you utilize these lands for growing fruit, flower, anything, whatever you can grow. But utilize this land. It doesn't matter what you would grow, anything. Who will be in charge?
Devotee: Bhaja Hari. (?)
Prabhupada: Bhaja Hari. Where is he?
Devotee: He is in his office downstairs.
Prabhupada: Call him.
Devotee: Now? Right away?
Prabhupada: He has come, Syamasundara?
Pradyumna: Syamasundara is here.
Prabhupada: Get him also.
Pradyumna: The lady left her coat. Maybe she is still here. (end)
Revatinandana: I see. But that seeing...
Prabhupada: That seeing is not ananda. Seeing is ananda, undoubtedly, but seeing and talking and becoming friend, that is higher. Friend or conjugal lover, father, mother. That kind of seeing is different.
Revatinandana: If that yogi quits his body in that condition, does he attain a Vaikuntha planet?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Revatinandana: [break] Is it possible that if he was... This is a question that sometimes a devotee has asked me. If a yogi does attain a Vaikuntha planet, but by his constitutional nature he is meant to be associated with Krsna in Goloka...
Prabhupada: No, why not with Visnu. Vaikuntha is Visnu, Narayana. That is also... But there Narayana is worshiped with awe and veneration. He is God. No friendship as in Vrndavana. That is not possible. Vipralambha-sakhya. Aisvarya, aisvarya, opulence. There the Supreme Lord is taken in aisvarya, opulences. Not aisvarya-sthiti. In Vrndavana the devotees, they practically do not know that Krsna is God. "He is our very beloved friend." That's all. They doesn't care to know whether He is God or not. Here the conception of God. Vaikuntha, "Oh, here is God," with awe and veneration, respect.
Revatinandana: That I understand. The question is suppose this yogi, he has not got full knowledge, he does not know of Krsna, and therefore he is meditating on Paramatma, and he attains Vaikuntha. Is it possible that because he hadn't got full knowledge...
Prabhupada: No, he has to go, simply by Paramatma conception, he cannot go to Vaikuntha.
Revatinandana: Can he later go on from Vaikuntha to Goloka? Can that happen also?
Prabhupada: Yes, there is such instances, can go.
Revatinandana: But if a devotee knows Krsna, if he knows of Krsna, then wherever he is destined, he will go perfectly to his perfect position. Just like Bhisma knew Krsna...
Prabhupada: Mad-yajino yanti mam. Krsna devotees, they go directly, especially those who are worshiping Krsna through Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They directly go to Krsnaloka.
Revatinandana: What about like the case of Bhismadeva where he knew about Krsna in Goloka, and he went to Krsna as Partha-sarathi.
Prabhupada: No, Krsna... He understood Krsna as Narayana. He will go to Vaikuntha, Bhismadeva.
Revatinandana: But he had full knowledge of everything as a mahajana. He knew also...
Prabhupada: But he loved Narayana, Catur-bhuja.
Revatinandana: Yes, that was his constitutional position. That's all right.
Prabhupada: Just like sometimes madhurya-rasa is the greatest humor...
Revatinandana: Who?
Prabhupada: Madhurya-rasa, conjugal love. But still, there are devotees who prefer parental love, friendly love. That is liking. Everyone has got his own liking. But they are all the same, all the same. There is no difference between Krsna devotee and Narayana devotee. They are all the... But it is their liking, varieties of liking.
Revatinandana: Another related question that also arose... These come in Bhagavata class with the devotees because they think about the questions and sometimes they come up with nice ones. When Krsna is incarnating in His plenary incarnations like Varaha, Nrsimha, like that...
Prabhupada: That is in this material world.
Revatinandana: Yes. And sometimes devotees become devoted to those forms. Are there corresponding planets in Vaikuntha for those forms of incarnation? Is there a planet of Nrsimha or Nrsimha-loka in the Vaikuntha sphere?
Prabhupada: So far (I) know, those planets are here within this material world.
Revatinandana: Wherever He is appearing.
Prabhupada: Hm. Even Ramacandra's. So far I have...
Revatinandana: On all the Vaikunthas, Krsna is in His catur-bhuja, four-armed form?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Revatinandana: But those devotees will eventually go there. Those kind of devotees like devotees of Sita-Rama, they will also attain the spiritual sky in their various positions.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Revatinandana: All right. Thank you very much. (offers obeisances)
Prabhupada: What is this?
Janaki: One is rice and the other bada.
Prabhupada: What are there?
Janaki: Milk, hot.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Janaki: I think that other thing was not a good idea.
Prabhupada: No, it was too cold.
Janaki: Yes, it reduces heat. I will bring some hot pepper.
Prabhupada: [break] ...is taking place. The rascal Darwin says that it is coming from monkey. Why the monkey does not produce a human being? All rascals. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-gunah. Simply rascals. His name is Neiman?
Pradyumna: Couldn't get his last, Ruby something.
Prabhupada: Ruby, that...
Pradyumna: He is a very nice gentleman. He appreciated Bhagavad-gita. He said right away, very...
Prabhupada: Yes...
Pradyumna: My wife's typing up all your lectures. She has finished L.A. lectures. Now she is typing Mayapura lectures, this lecture, that lecture. She has permanent machine and typewriter and apartment. So she types all during the day and she minds the child. And then it is in the same apartment.
Prabhupada: Attending class also?
Pradyumna: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Pradyumna: They live now across the street, in the temple apartments.
Prabhupada: In our house?
Pradyumna: Yes.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Pradyumna: Typing.
Prabhupada: Now this house will facilitate our business. Just opposite the temple. So round about. Therefore I asked him, "Purchase these houses, purchase." Never mind. So that is not lost. They were paying rent elsewhere. They can pay here. We get our permanent tenants.
Pradyumna: Yes. All children live there too. It is very nice.
Prabhupada: So these houses. Now we have got four or five houses. Two houses of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust and three houses of M.V. Trust.
Pradyumna: It will be a city. It's so nice, all the children live there together. Next door there is Baladeva, that little boy with red hair. Aniruddha, he is blond hair and another boy with red hair, he is next door. He is best friend. They always play, all boys.
Prabhupada: Hm. And in the front house, there is ample space back there for children's play. This will facilitate... Very nice. And then one house after, there is another house.
Pradyumna: Yes, up on the street, on our side of street.
Prabhupada: Hm. Watseka. And that is Venice. On Venice we have got two house. The real estate men, they think of us -- very, very rich. (laughs) After purchasing these houses. Here also, we can have very nice colony, in this village. There are so many land, houses are for sale. If we can organize. Now you utilize these lands for growing fruit, flower, anything, whatever you can grow. But utilize this land. It doesn't matter what you would grow, anything. Who will be in charge?
Devotee: Bhaja Hari. (?)
Prabhupada: Bhaja Hari. Where is he?
Devotee: He is in his office downstairs.
Prabhupada: Call him.
Devotee: Now? Right away?
Prabhupada: He has come, Syamasundara?
Pradyumna: Syamasundara is here.
Prabhupada: Get him also.
Pradyumna: The lady left her coat. Maybe she is still here. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Room Conversation -- July 19, 1973, London
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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