January 8, 1977
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Prabhupada: So this is
documentary. And the Europeans and..., they are not fools and rascals that they
are interested in purchasing other religious book, not their Bible. You see? So
it has got very great potency. So under the circumstances, we should now make
combined effort that it can be pushed on more organizedly. I am doing now alone
with the help of these... But no Indians are coming. This is the
difficulty.Guest (2): I think, with all due respect, many Indians are trying
to do things in their own religious sect or in their own
districts.
Prabhupada: Nobody is doing.
Guest (2): Well, I mean, if you had been to Bharatpur recently, about 5,200 beds were there for netra-yajna, for the eyes operation.
Prabhupada: I know that. That I know. But I am speaking of this culture.
Guest (2): Culture, yes.
Guest (1): That is a difficulty one is giving.(?)
Guest (2): Because in observing karma-phela, somebody's taking care of. In bhakti...
Prabhupada: But one thing is that we are preaching Bhagavad-gita as it is. In Bhagavad-gita there is no such statement that you take care of the eyes of the people. There is no such statement. That is your manufactured idea. But we are preaching Bhagavad-gita as it is. That is the difference. Our preaching is that instead of giving relief to the eyes, give him relief in such a way he hasn't got to accept any more this body with eyes. You cannot make a solution of the problem. Somebody is taking care of the eyes, somebody's taking of the finger, somebody of the hair, somebody of another, genital, and so on, so on. This will not solve the problem. The problem is, as it is said in the Bhagavad..., janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-
Guest (3) (Indian man): Guruji, just now the problem is of starvation.
Prabhupada: Well, starvation... Suppose you are diseased, and if your father does not give you to eat, that is your blessing. Guest (1): And what about...? He will die or...? Or this will go away?
Prabhupada: Why you are complaining? Suppose your father, he gives you everything. But when you are diseased, if he said, "My dear son you cannot eat everything," is that starvation?
Guest (3): But...
Prabhupada: First of all give me answer this. Is that starvation?
Guest (3): No...
Prabhupada: That is cure. This is cure. In the Vedas it is said, nityo nityanam cetanas cetanam eko yo bahunam vidadhati kaman. God is giving food to the cats and dogs. Nobody is starving. If you are starving, that is your blessing.
Guest (3): But then, Guruji, suppose you see somebody...
Prabhupada: We do not suppose. We get the reference to the sastra. That is our disease. We don't manufacture. We don't manufacture anything. Our point of view is if there is starvation, then we take it: mercy of Krsna. Tat te nukampam su-samiksamano bhunjana evatma-krtam vipakam [SB 10.14.8]. When we are put into starvation, we take it: blessings of God. We don't complain, that "I did something wrong or there is something wrong, so God has put me into this position. It is His blessing." This is our view.
Guest (2): Guruji, my father mentioned about this very beautiful picture just above your head. He was saying it is one of best pictures he has seen of Krsna and Arjuna. And you indicated that there may be a card or something.
Giriraja: Yes, I have that.
Guest (2): Oh. Very good.
Guest (1): You want big picture? I can give you one.
Prabhupada: No, you have got cards printed?
Guest (1): I have got lot of the big ones. I think big ones you don't have.
Giriraja: He's asking for a card.
Guest (2): I have been asked that he wants to keep it on paper.
Prabhupada: I have given that picture in my Bhagavad-gita in so many languages.
Giriraja: Here we have it in all different languages. This is Chinese.
Guest (2): That I wouldn't be able to read. (laughter)
Giriraja: We're just showing that we are placing the Bhagavad-gita in all languages. This is German. Oh, yes, yes. You're German.
Guest (2): I'm a little bit of that.
Prabhupada: So this starvation point, we take it as blessing. People generally question that "How God is unfavorable to somebody and favorable to...?" That is foolishness. God is good, but that we do not know. Because we are less intelligent, we think that "One man is in starvation; therefore God is not good." That is our fault. We are not good. We do not understand God. But a Vaisnava says, "Oh, it is blessing." And if he takes like that, then the result is mukti-pade sa daya-bhak. His mukti is guaranteed. In any circumstances, if somebody takes God as good, then his mukti is guaranteed. And if he blames God -- "Oh, He has put me into starvation" -- then he has to suffer. This is the common argument sometimes we meet, "Oh, why God has made somebody so rich and somebody some poor? He is unjust." That is foolishness. God cannot be... He's just, always just. That is God. So unless we have got that firm conviction, then we cannot become devotee.
Guest (1): That is why Indians are not joining then. Because they are not joining because of that; they cannot understand what is the reality. Because we try to comment upon the God's actions, "Somebody's poor, somebody's rich, somebody's this."
Prabhupada: But actually you don't believe in God. That is the disease, godlessness. If we believe in God...
Guest (2): If we fully believe... But there are a large portion of...
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. They don't believe in Him. They think that "God is my servant, or order-supplier" -- "God, why you have not done this. If you don't do this, I don't want You." This is our position.
Guest (2): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Yes. That means "God is my servant order-supplier." Actually... This is European mentality. One, my Godbrother, German Godbrother, that Sadananda, he told me, in the last war, when the war was going on, generally women were left. All men were in the battlefield, somebody's husband, somebody's father, somebody's son. So they went to the church. They were going church. Even Churchill also recommended "Go to the church. Pray." Duhkha se saba hari bhaje sukha se bhaje kaya. So, but nobody returned. So all of them became atheist: "Oh, it is useless to go to church. I prayed so much for my husband coming back, but he did not come. Useless." So this is the position. "I ordered God that 'My husband has gone to the war. Let him come back unharmed.' And God did not bring him back. He did not carry my order. I don't want this God." This is going on. When the war was declared, there was no consultation with God. (laughter) Rascal. That time there was no consultation. And when the husband is going to die, he goes to God. This is our position.
Guest (2): When war was to be declared...
Prabhupada: Ha. There was no consul...
Guest (2): They had found a final solution to the Jewish problem.
Prabhupada: These politicians, they're everything. And when the war is very acute and the husband is going to die, then God is required. When he does sinful activities, God is never consulted, but when he suffers, then God's consulted. "And if You don't supply my order, then I don't want You." Means he remains: "Don't want You." That's all.
Guest (2): Swamiji, may I ask one question which I had much discussion with your sisya here. Brahman, the sort of, what we in Hindu philosophy consider as the ultimate Godhead...
Prabhupada: No.
Guest (2): Brahman you consider Krsna. But He is, of course... He was incarnate. He was one of the avataras.
Prabhupada: That is your opinion. That is not...
Guest (2): That is our point which I want to clarify.
Prabhupada: You have to take the sastra, authority. Brahmano aham pratistha. Read Bhagavad-gita. You read Bhagavad-gita? Now, did you not read this?
Guest (2): Well, that's what I want to clarify.
Prabhupada: Find out this.
Trivikrama: 14.27.
Prabhupada: Read that.
Guest (2): I am... This, even on the Eighth Chapter you'll find.
Prabhupada: Yes. Brahmano 'ham pratistha. Read. Just here.
Giriraja:
brahmano hi pratisthaham
amrtasyavyayasya ca
sasvatasya ca dharmasya
sukhasyaikantikasya ca
[Bg. 14.27]
Prabhupada: So He is the pratistha. Just like in this room there is illumination. The illumination is spread all over the room. (Hindi -- "Please hear") So the illumination is important or the light is important? What is important?
Guest (2): The original light. Source of the light. Isn't Brahman the source of the light?
Prabhupada: No, first of all try to understand. Just like the sunshine. The sunshine is important or the sun is important?
Guest (2): The original sun.
Prabhupada: Yes. Similarly, this impersonal Brahman illumination or effulgence, that is the bodily rays of Krsna. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. So ultimately Krsna is important, not this impersonal Brahman illumination. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. You see practical example and learn here in the sastra. You'll understand Krsna is the origin. Aham sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8], personally says. Mattah sarvam pravartate. So Brahman also pravartate. But if you don't believe Krsna and sastra, that is different thing. Then you cannot be convinced. Sastra-caksusat. Your eyes should be through the sastra, not by manufacturing ideas. So sastras says this.
yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti-
kotisv asesa-vasudhadi-vibhuti-
tad brahma niskalam anantam asesa-bhutam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.40]
This is sastra, Brahma-samhita, that "This brahmajyoti is the bodily rays of Krsna. Govinda." So the rays of Govinda is not so important as Govinda is important. Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami **. And Govinda personally says, aham sarvasya... Sarvasya means everything, including Brahman.
Guest (2): With all due respect, I was talking of Brahman.
Prabhupada: I am speaking of Brahman. Brahman means this brahmajyoti. You mean that. Yes, I am speaking that. This brahmajyoti...
Guest (2): Isvara is different from Brahman?
Prabhupada: Isvara everyone. But isvara parama is Krsna.
Guest (1): Paramesvara.
Prabhupada: Paramesvara. There is two words. One is isvara; one is paramesvara. You may be isvara. You may be isvara in your business. So many workers are working under you, and you are ordering, you are regulating, but you are not paramesvara. Similarly, you take each and every one, up to Brahma. They may be isvara, but he's not a paramesvara. Paramesvara is one. Mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. That is Krsna.
Guest (2): Then the last question. Rama, how do you relate?
Prabhupada: Rama means Krsna, the same. Ramadi-murtisu kala niyamena tisthan [Bs. 5.39]. Krsna is always existing with His different incarnation, expansions, ramadi-murti-Rama, Nrsimha, Varaha.... There are hundreds and thousands of expansions. Advaita acyuta anadi ananta-rupam. So Rama is expansion of Krsna. He's God. There is no difference between Rama and Krsna. Just like one candle, and if you light another candle, another candle, so one may be the first, second, third, like that, but in candle power they are all the same; similarly, Rama is expansion of Krsna. That does not mean Rama is less than Krsna. Rama, Nrsimha, Varaha. There are many.
Guest (1): That is what Hare Krsna mantra is, Krsna and Rama both.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest (2): But the translation of the word Hare in...
Prabhupada: Hara.
Guest (2): Hara, in English...
Prabhupada: Original hara. Just like lata. The lata, when you address lata, it is late. Similarly, when you address hara, the sambodhana is hare. Hare Krsna.
Guest (2): Sambodhana is to remove the evil, remove the bad part isn't it?
Prabhupada: No, no. Where is bad? There is no bad.
Guest (2): Hare Krsna means what? "Brahman, please remove from me the... " Isn't it?
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Why? It is addressing.
Guest (2): Only addressing.
Prabhupada: Yes. Addressing means with some purpose when I address Mr. such and such. Then if you say, "Yes, what do you want to say?"
Guest (2): It has no relation with the...
Prabhupada: Relation is there. Relation is there. Otherwise, how can I address him? Relation is there. So this form Hare, means Hara, is the potency of Hari. [break] Just like you are a grhastha. You have got your wife, you have got your maidservant. The maidservant is doing something, wife is doing something, but you have many potencies. The managing director is there, but he has got many assistants. Similarly, the Supreme Person has got multi-assistants, potencies. So they are all accepted as Hara, Hari's potencies. So we have to approach Hari through the potency: "O Hare. O the potency of the Lord. O Lord, be merciful." We cannot jump over the Lord without going through the potency. So those who are impersonalists, they cannot understand. But those who are intelligent, they can understand that God is person, He has got multi-potencies, and through the potencies He's working so nicely. This is Vedic injunction. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport].
na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate
na tat samas cabhyadhikas ca drsyate
parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate
svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca
God has nothing to do personally. As we see a very big rich man, he hasn't got to do anything personally, but he has got so many assistants. They're doing everything. Similarly, parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate. But when the things are done, svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya. The knowledge is so perfect and things are done so nicely that it is automatically being done. And the rascals who cannot see behind there is God, they simply see this nature: "The nature is working automatically." It is not the fact. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gita: mayadhyaksena prakrti suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10]. There is adhyaksana. Yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakro. Even the sun planet, such big illuminative, powerful, it is also rotating by the order of God. So similarly, we are addressing the potencies of the Lord. We cannot jump over God, because potencies are so important. They are actually helping hand to God. So if they are pleased, then God will be pleased automatically. Why we address, "Hara"? "Hare Krsna." The Krsna's potency, Radharani; Rama's potency, Sita... Therefore, first of all, Sita-Rama; Hare Krsna; Radha-Krsna; Laksmi-Narayana. We address the first, potency. So if I request your wife, "Mother, give me this help," and if she gives that "This man is very nice," you cannot refuse. You cannot refuse. So this is the process, the appealing to the potency of Krsna, "So now I am so much harassed. Kindly lift me and engage me in Your service. Hare Krsna." This is Hare Krsna. "I have served so many life the dictation of my senses, kamadi." Katidha na katidha palita durni desah: "My lusty desires, my senses, they have dictated me in so many ways which I should not have carried. Still, I have done it." Kamadinam katidha na katidha palita durnidesah. Nidesah. You are my master. You are asking, "Bring me a glass of water." That's very nice. But sometimes you may say, "You go to that person and speak this lie." I don't want to speak lie, but because I am your servant, I have to do that. Otherwise, my service will be cancelled. So similarly, kamadinam katidha na katidha palita durnidesah. Nidesah is all right, but durni desah. So we are doing this life after life, dictated by the senses, which we should not have done. But we have done it. Kamadinam katidha na katidha palita durni desah. So "All right, you have satisfied your master." No, no. That is also not the fact. Tesam karuna na jata na trapa: "They are neither satisfied, neither they are kind upon me that 'This man has done so much. Now don't order him.' " Tesam na karuna jata na trapa. "Then what you do...?" "Now I have rejected him. I have come to Hare Krsna-'Please engage me in Your service.' That is my life. I have done all this nonsense life after life. They are not satisfied. So therefore my business is to serve. 'I have come to You. Please accept me.' " That is Hare Krsna. Because "I have to serve. I have no other business. So I have served these rascals, but they are not satisfied." Na trapa nopasanti. "So why shall I do this business anymore? Yes. You are asking sarva-dharman parityajya mam [Bg. 18.66]. I do that. That's all."
Guest (3) (Indian man): With guru-krpa it can be revealed.
Prabhupada: Yes, you cannot have krsna-krpa directly. Guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. That is Caitanya. You have to go through guru.
Guest (4) (Indian man): And how do we get guru?
Guest (1): Guru finds you.
Prabhupada: Not guru finds you. You have to find out guru. Guru is there. Guru is there. But if you want to be cheated, then you find out. And if you want to be cheated, the cheaters will... Guru-krsna-krpa. If you are actually serious to serve Krsna, Hare Krsna, then Krsna will give you: "Here is guru." Guru is there. Guru is there, but unless you are actually serious, you cannot get real guru. If you want to be cheated or if you are a cheater, then you'll get a cheater guru. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Give prasada. Bring prasada. Now we go to guru for some medical help. We go to guru for some economic development. So you'll get cheater. That's all.
Prabhupada: Nobody is doing.
Guest (2): Well, I mean, if you had been to Bharatpur recently, about 5,200 beds were there for netra-yajna, for the eyes operation.
Prabhupada: I know that. That I know. But I am speaking of this culture.
Guest (2): Culture, yes.
Guest (1): That is a difficulty one is giving.(?)
Guest (2): Because in observing karma-phela, somebody's taking care of. In bhakti...
Prabhupada: But one thing is that we are preaching Bhagavad-gita as it is. In Bhagavad-gita there is no such statement that you take care of the eyes of the people. There is no such statement. That is your manufactured idea. But we are preaching Bhagavad-gita as it is. That is the difference. Our preaching is that instead of giving relief to the eyes, give him relief in such a way he hasn't got to accept any more this body with eyes. You cannot make a solution of the problem. Somebody is taking care of the eyes, somebody's taking of the finger, somebody of the hair, somebody of another, genital, and so on, so on. This will not solve the problem. The problem is, as it is said in the Bhagavad..., janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-
Guest (3) (Indian man): Guruji, just now the problem is of starvation.
Prabhupada: Well, starvation... Suppose you are diseased, and if your father does not give you to eat, that is your blessing. Guest (1): And what about...? He will die or...? Or this will go away?
Prabhupada: Why you are complaining? Suppose your father, he gives you everything. But when you are diseased, if he said, "My dear son you cannot eat everything," is that starvation?
Guest (3): But...
Prabhupada: First of all give me answer this. Is that starvation?
Guest (3): No...
Prabhupada: That is cure. This is cure. In the Vedas it is said, nityo nityanam cetanas cetanam eko yo bahunam vidadhati kaman. God is giving food to the cats and dogs. Nobody is starving. If you are starving, that is your blessing.
Guest (3): But then, Guruji, suppose you see somebody...
Prabhupada: We do not suppose. We get the reference to the sastra. That is our disease. We don't manufacture. We don't manufacture anything. Our point of view is if there is starvation, then we take it: mercy of Krsna. Tat te nukampam su-samiksamano bhunjana evatma-krtam vipakam [SB 10.14.8]. When we are put into starvation, we take it: blessings of God. We don't complain, that "I did something wrong or there is something wrong, so God has put me into this position. It is His blessing." This is our view.
Guest (2): Guruji, my father mentioned about this very beautiful picture just above your head. He was saying it is one of best pictures he has seen of Krsna and Arjuna. And you indicated that there may be a card or something.
Giriraja: Yes, I have that.
Guest (2): Oh. Very good.
Guest (1): You want big picture? I can give you one.
Prabhupada: No, you have got cards printed?
Guest (1): I have got lot of the big ones. I think big ones you don't have.
Giriraja: He's asking for a card.
Guest (2): I have been asked that he wants to keep it on paper.
Prabhupada: I have given that picture in my Bhagavad-gita in so many languages.
Giriraja: Here we have it in all different languages. This is Chinese.
Guest (2): That I wouldn't be able to read. (laughter)
Giriraja: We're just showing that we are placing the Bhagavad-gita in all languages. This is German. Oh, yes, yes. You're German.
Guest (2): I'm a little bit of that.
Prabhupada: So this starvation point, we take it as blessing. People generally question that "How God is unfavorable to somebody and favorable to...?" That is foolishness. God is good, but that we do not know. Because we are less intelligent, we think that "One man is in starvation; therefore God is not good." That is our fault. We are not good. We do not understand God. But a Vaisnava says, "Oh, it is blessing." And if he takes like that, then the result is mukti-pade sa daya-bhak. His mukti is guaranteed. In any circumstances, if somebody takes God as good, then his mukti is guaranteed. And if he blames God -- "Oh, He has put me into starvation" -- then he has to suffer. This is the common argument sometimes we meet, "Oh, why God has made somebody so rich and somebody some poor? He is unjust." That is foolishness. God cannot be... He's just, always just. That is God. So unless we have got that firm conviction, then we cannot become devotee.
Guest (1): That is why Indians are not joining then. Because they are not joining because of that; they cannot understand what is the reality. Because we try to comment upon the God's actions, "Somebody's poor, somebody's rich, somebody's this."
Prabhupada: But actually you don't believe in God. That is the disease, godlessness. If we believe in God...
Guest (2): If we fully believe... But there are a large portion of...
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. They don't believe in Him. They think that "God is my servant, or order-supplier" -- "God, why you have not done this. If you don't do this, I don't want You." This is our position.
Guest (2): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Yes. That means "God is my servant order-supplier." Actually... This is European mentality. One, my Godbrother, German Godbrother, that Sadananda, he told me, in the last war, when the war was going on, generally women were left. All men were in the battlefield, somebody's husband, somebody's father, somebody's son. So they went to the church. They were going church. Even Churchill also recommended "Go to the church. Pray." Duhkha se saba hari bhaje sukha se bhaje kaya. So, but nobody returned. So all of them became atheist: "Oh, it is useless to go to church. I prayed so much for my husband coming back, but he did not come. Useless." So this is the position. "I ordered God that 'My husband has gone to the war. Let him come back unharmed.' And God did not bring him back. He did not carry my order. I don't want this God." This is going on. When the war was declared, there was no consultation with God. (laughter) Rascal. That time there was no consultation. And when the husband is going to die, he goes to God. This is our position.
Guest (2): When war was to be declared...
Prabhupada: Ha. There was no consul...
Guest (2): They had found a final solution to the Jewish problem.
Prabhupada: These politicians, they're everything. And when the war is very acute and the husband is going to die, then God is required. When he does sinful activities, God is never consulted, but when he suffers, then God's consulted. "And if You don't supply my order, then I don't want You." Means he remains: "Don't want You." That's all.
Guest (2): Swamiji, may I ask one question which I had much discussion with your sisya here. Brahman, the sort of, what we in Hindu philosophy consider as the ultimate Godhead...
Prabhupada: No.
Guest (2): Brahman you consider Krsna. But He is, of course... He was incarnate. He was one of the avataras.
Prabhupada: That is your opinion. That is not...
Guest (2): That is our point which I want to clarify.
Prabhupada: You have to take the sastra, authority. Brahmano aham pratistha. Read Bhagavad-gita. You read Bhagavad-gita? Now, did you not read this?
Guest (2): Well, that's what I want to clarify.
Prabhupada: Find out this.
Trivikrama: 14.27.
Prabhupada: Read that.
Guest (2): I am... This, even on the Eighth Chapter you'll find.
Prabhupada: Yes. Brahmano 'ham pratistha. Read. Just here.
Giriraja:
brahmano hi pratisthaham
amrtasyavyayasya ca
sasvatasya ca dharmasya
sukhasyaikantikasya ca
[Bg. 14.27]
Prabhupada: So He is the pratistha. Just like in this room there is illumination. The illumination is spread all over the room. (Hindi -- "Please hear") So the illumination is important or the light is important? What is important?
Guest (2): The original light. Source of the light. Isn't Brahman the source of the light?
Prabhupada: No, first of all try to understand. Just like the sunshine. The sunshine is important or the sun is important?
Guest (2): The original sun.
Prabhupada: Yes. Similarly, this impersonal Brahman illumination or effulgence, that is the bodily rays of Krsna. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. So ultimately Krsna is important, not this impersonal Brahman illumination. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. You see practical example and learn here in the sastra. You'll understand Krsna is the origin. Aham sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8], personally says. Mattah sarvam pravartate. So Brahman also pravartate. But if you don't believe Krsna and sastra, that is different thing. Then you cannot be convinced. Sastra-caksusat. Your eyes should be through the sastra, not by manufacturing ideas. So sastras says this.
yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti-
kotisv asesa-vasudhadi-vibhuti-
tad brahma niskalam anantam asesa-bhutam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.40]
This is sastra, Brahma-samhita, that "This brahmajyoti is the bodily rays of Krsna. Govinda." So the rays of Govinda is not so important as Govinda is important. Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami **. And Govinda personally says, aham sarvasya... Sarvasya means everything, including Brahman.
Guest (2): With all due respect, I was talking of Brahman.
Prabhupada: I am speaking of Brahman. Brahman means this brahmajyoti. You mean that. Yes, I am speaking that. This brahmajyoti...
Guest (2): Isvara is different from Brahman?
Prabhupada: Isvara everyone. But isvara parama is Krsna.
Guest (1): Paramesvara.
Prabhupada: Paramesvara. There is two words. One is isvara; one is paramesvara. You may be isvara. You may be isvara in your business. So many workers are working under you, and you are ordering, you are regulating, but you are not paramesvara. Similarly, you take each and every one, up to Brahma. They may be isvara, but he's not a paramesvara. Paramesvara is one. Mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. That is Krsna.
Guest (2): Then the last question. Rama, how do you relate?
Prabhupada: Rama means Krsna, the same. Ramadi-murtisu kala niyamena tisthan [Bs. 5.39]. Krsna is always existing with His different incarnation, expansions, ramadi-murti-Rama, Nrsimha, Varaha.... There are hundreds and thousands of expansions. Advaita acyuta anadi ananta-rupam. So Rama is expansion of Krsna. He's God. There is no difference between Rama and Krsna. Just like one candle, and if you light another candle, another candle, so one may be the first, second, third, like that, but in candle power they are all the same; similarly, Rama is expansion of Krsna. That does not mean Rama is less than Krsna. Rama, Nrsimha, Varaha. There are many.
Guest (1): That is what Hare Krsna mantra is, Krsna and Rama both.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest (2): But the translation of the word Hare in...
Prabhupada: Hara.
Guest (2): Hara, in English...
Prabhupada: Original hara. Just like lata. The lata, when you address lata, it is late. Similarly, when you address hara, the sambodhana is hare. Hare Krsna.
Guest (2): Sambodhana is to remove the evil, remove the bad part isn't it?
Prabhupada: No, no. Where is bad? There is no bad.
Guest (2): Hare Krsna means what? "Brahman, please remove from me the... " Isn't it?
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Why? It is addressing.
Guest (2): Only addressing.
Prabhupada: Yes. Addressing means with some purpose when I address Mr. such and such. Then if you say, "Yes, what do you want to say?"
Guest (2): It has no relation with the...
Prabhupada: Relation is there. Relation is there. Otherwise, how can I address him? Relation is there. So this form Hare, means Hara, is the potency of Hari. [break] Just like you are a grhastha. You have got your wife, you have got your maidservant. The maidservant is doing something, wife is doing something, but you have many potencies. The managing director is there, but he has got many assistants. Similarly, the Supreme Person has got multi-assistants, potencies. So they are all accepted as Hara, Hari's potencies. So we have to approach Hari through the potency: "O Hare. O the potency of the Lord. O Lord, be merciful." We cannot jump over the Lord without going through the potency. So those who are impersonalists, they cannot understand. But those who are intelligent, they can understand that God is person, He has got multi-potencies, and through the potencies He's working so nicely. This is Vedic injunction. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport].
na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate
na tat samas cabhyadhikas ca drsyate
parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate
svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca
God has nothing to do personally. As we see a very big rich man, he hasn't got to do anything personally, but he has got so many assistants. They're doing everything. Similarly, parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate. But when the things are done, svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya. The knowledge is so perfect and things are done so nicely that it is automatically being done. And the rascals who cannot see behind there is God, they simply see this nature: "The nature is working automatically." It is not the fact. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gita: mayadhyaksena prakrti suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10]. There is adhyaksana. Yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakro. Even the sun planet, such big illuminative, powerful, it is also rotating by the order of God. So similarly, we are addressing the potencies of the Lord. We cannot jump over God, because potencies are so important. They are actually helping hand to God. So if they are pleased, then God will be pleased automatically. Why we address, "Hara"? "Hare Krsna." The Krsna's potency, Radharani; Rama's potency, Sita... Therefore, first of all, Sita-Rama; Hare Krsna; Radha-Krsna; Laksmi-Narayana. We address the first, potency. So if I request your wife, "Mother, give me this help," and if she gives that "This man is very nice," you cannot refuse. You cannot refuse. So this is the process, the appealing to the potency of Krsna, "So now I am so much harassed. Kindly lift me and engage me in Your service. Hare Krsna." This is Hare Krsna. "I have served so many life the dictation of my senses, kamadi." Katidha na katidha palita durni desah: "My lusty desires, my senses, they have dictated me in so many ways which I should not have carried. Still, I have done it." Kamadinam katidha na katidha palita durnidesah. Nidesah. You are my master. You are asking, "Bring me a glass of water." That's very nice. But sometimes you may say, "You go to that person and speak this lie." I don't want to speak lie, but because I am your servant, I have to do that. Otherwise, my service will be cancelled. So similarly, kamadinam katidha na katidha palita durnidesah. Nidesah is all right, but durni desah. So we are doing this life after life, dictated by the senses, which we should not have done. But we have done it. Kamadinam katidha na katidha palita durni desah. So "All right, you have satisfied your master." No, no. That is also not the fact. Tesam karuna na jata na trapa: "They are neither satisfied, neither they are kind upon me that 'This man has done so much. Now don't order him.' " Tesam na karuna jata na trapa. "Then what you do...?" "Now I have rejected him. I have come to Hare Krsna-'Please engage me in Your service.' That is my life. I have done all this nonsense life after life. They are not satisfied. So therefore my business is to serve. 'I have come to You. Please accept me.' " That is Hare Krsna. Because "I have to serve. I have no other business. So I have served these rascals, but they are not satisfied." Na trapa nopasanti. "So why shall I do this business anymore? Yes. You are asking sarva-dharman parityajya mam [Bg. 18.66]. I do that. That's all."
Guest (3) (Indian man): With guru-krpa it can be revealed.
Prabhupada: Yes, you cannot have krsna-krpa directly. Guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. That is Caitanya. You have to go through guru.
Guest (4) (Indian man): And how do we get guru?
Guest (1): Guru finds you.
Prabhupada: Not guru finds you. You have to find out guru. Guru is there. Guru is there. But if you want to be cheated, then you find out. And if you want to be cheated, the cheaters will... Guru-krsna-krpa. If you are actually serious to serve Krsna, Hare Krsna, then Krsna will give you: "Here is guru." Guru is there. Guru is there, but unless you are actually serious, you cannot get real guru. If you want to be cheated or if you are a cheater, then you'll get a cheater guru. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Give prasada. Bring prasada. Now we go to guru for some medical help. We go to guru for some economic development. So you'll get cheater. That's all.
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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