Prabhupada: That there is no brain
behind this creation. How foolish they are. There is no brain in this artistic
work. And how wonderfully, because it is automatically coming, artist. Anything,
you take flower. So, without brain how this thing can happen? But these rascals
they do not understand. They say nature. What is this nature? Nature is an
instrument, but the brain is God. Just like you paint a flower with the brush.
The brush is not the creator of that painting, you are creating. Similarly, it
appears that it is happening naturally. Nature is only brush, but the brain is
God.Guest: Yet no two are the same, are they?
Prabhupada: Eh.
Guest: They are not the same.
Prabhupada: Yes. Varieties. Everything is variety. Everything is variety, full of varieties. We find the same species of rose. Still, you'll find varieties. In human, twin brothers you will find still varieties.
Guest: And in Goloka Vrndavana, are there still varieties? Are there still varieties in Vrndavana?
Prabhupada: Vrndavana?
Srutakirti: Goloka Vrndavana, are there still varieties he said.
Prabhupada: Oh yes. There are varieties. Ananda, ananda, pleasure means varieties. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. Without varieties, just like we prepare from grains, sugar, ghee, hundreds of varieties. If you simply give grain, ghee and sugar, it will not be enjoyable. But the same thing, you prepare in varieties and give you a plate, oh, you'll say, "Oh, so nice thing." The ingredients are the same. Grains, ghee and sugar, that's all. Similarly, this material world, the ingredients are the same. Namely five gross elements and three subtle elements, finer. Earth, water, air, fire, sky. These are gross elements. And mind, intelligence, ego these are finer elements. Combined together this material world has come. The brain behind is a living entity. Just like we are using these ingredients, these five elements: earth, water, air, fire, sky, making this building, making this table, making this chair, vase, so many things, harmonium, pictures, book. So the ingredients are the same, but my brain is working in different varieties. My brain or your brain. Human brain. Similarly this material cosmic manifestation is full of varieties. The brain behind it is Krsna. That is stated, you have read our Bhagavad-gita?
Guest: I've taken a look.
Prabhupada: There is a verse. Find out:
mayadhyaksena prakrtih
suyate sa-caracaram
hetunanena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
[Bg. 9.10]
Srutakirti:
mayadhyaksena prakrtih
suyate sa-caracaram
hetunanena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
[Bg. 9.10]
"This material nature is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, and it is producing all moving and unmoving beings. By its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again."
Prabhupada: Purport?
Srutakirti: It is clearly stated here that the Supreme Lord, although aloof from all the activities of the material world, remains the supreme director. The Supreme Lord is the supreme will and the background of this material manifestation, but the management is being conducted by material nature. Krsna also states in Bhagavad-gita that of all the living entities in different forms and species, "I am the Father." The father gives seeds to the womb of the mother for the child, and similarly the Supreme Lord by His mere glance injects all the living entities into the womb of material nature, and they come out in their different forms and species, according to their last desires and activities. All these living entities, although born under the glance of the Supreme Lord, still take their different bodies according to their past deeds and desires. So the Lord is not directly attached to this material creation. He simply glances over material nature; material nature is thus activated, and everything is created immediately. Because He glances over material nature, there is undoubtedly activity on the part of the Supreme Lord, but He has nothing to do with the manifestation of the material world directly. This example is given in the smrti: when there is a fragrant flower before someone, the fragrance is touched by the smelling power of the person, yet the smelling and the flower are detached from one another. There is a similar connection between the material world and the Supreme Personality of Godhead; actually He has nothing to do with this material world, but He creates by His glance and ordains. In summary, material nature, without the superintendence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, cannot do anything. Yet the Supreme Personality is detached from all material activities.
Guest: Is modern science materialism, Prabhupada? Is it materialism?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: All, all materialism?
Prabhupada: Just dealing with earth, water, air, fire, sky. That's all.
Guest: And in this time, modern science, you know, physics, chemistry, mathematics; is this all materialism?
Prabhupada: All materialism.
Guest: All materialism.
Prabhupada: They do not know what is spiritual.
Guest: And inside these people doing this work, is it Krsna? Or what is it makes them do the work?
Prabhupada: No. The soul is a living being. So nature is supplying material and he's molding in different forms. Just like earth is not man's creation. Earth is God's creation, or it is product of God's energy. But we are using this earth and molding in different forms, different pots, different dolls. So ingredients are supplied by God. Nature means God's energy. We simply handle them. We cannot produce anything, we transform only. Just like this iron, we cannot produce iron. It is gotten from the mine, iron bar. Now we have transformed into different forms. Because we have got creative energy like God, not very great, in very minute quantity. So as God has created by His intelligence, the whole universe -- we are creating this table, this pillow, this harmonium -- that's all. What you are finding?
Srutakirti: I was just looking at that verse again.
Prabhupada: Which verse?
Srutakirti: Mayadhyaksena...
Prabhupada: Oh.
mayadhyaksena prakrtih
suyate sa-caracaram
hetunanena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
[Bg. 9.10]
The Bhagavad-gita is the perfect information of everything. One has to study carefully, that's all. It is perfect information. And you can accept it with your good logic. Not that blindly you accept. Now just like Krsna says: "The material elements are My energy." Now you can consider, you can argue, you can make argument, you'll come to the conclusion. Just like material elements, water, the vast water. The ocean, Atlantic Ocean, vast water. So it is created by God's energy. How can you explain with your argument? Because it is said there, Krsna says, that "This is My energy." Now, if you accept it, it is all right. But if you have got hesitation, what is your reason?
Guest: Because one man says one thing and one man says another thing. So many people have different things to say.
Prabhupada: No, personally. Suppose I ask you. What is your, you want to ask me?
Hamsaduta: You have, that letter has a return address from Mandalibhadra?
Prabhupada: Yes, it is here. Now the water... Just like from your body, water is produced, is it not?
Guest: Transformed?
Prabhupada: Transformed or whatever, but you see urine is coming, perspiration is coming. So these different waters are produced by your energy within the body. So why not from God's energy the vast water?
Guest: Yes, truly.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: But why should he give us...
Prabhupada: Because God is unlimited, He has got unlimited energy. have got limited energy. I can pass urine, say one pound, I can have perspiration say, one ounce but if God likes He can produce unlimited water. Why this one Atlantic Ocean? Many millions of Atlantic Oceans He can produce. Water produced from His body. So where is the difficulty to understand? When Krsna says that the elements... Other matters are growing. Just like the hair. Now, today, I have shaved. Three days after, again it will grow. So I have got my energy within by which I'm constantly growing. But, hair is a material thing. So anything you take, it grows from the Supreme. It is very easy to understand.
Guest: Hmm. And ah, this inside, it grows because of Krsna does it?
Prabhupada: Everything is growing on account of Krsna. Your body, inside or outside, it is made of these five elements: earth, water, air, fire, like that. It is nothing but combination of these five elements.
Guest: Is the water inside the same as the water in the ocean?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: It's the same water.
Prabhupada: Yes. You... Have you tasted ever perspiration?
Guest: Hmm?
Prabhupada: Perspiration, have you tasted?
Guest: Tasted it, yes, salt.
Prabhupada: Salt, yes.
Guest: Ocean, yes.
Prabhupada: It has got.
Guest: But one ocean is not the same as another eh? My business is mathematics. It's not very transcendental.
Prabhupada: You are teacher?
Guest: No, not anymore. It's not very transcendental.
Srutakirti: He's asking if his business is transcendental.
Prabhupada: No, if it is used for Krsna, then it is transcendental. If it is used for your sense gratification, then it is material. That is the difference.
Guest: Yes. And how do you know whether you're using it for Krsna or not?
Prabhupada: Yes. That requires training from the Krsna's representative, guru. Just like these boys are being trained up in Krsna consciousness. So it requires little training. Just like you are mathematician. To make another student mathematician, you have to train him. You have to teach him how to calculate two plus two equal to four. It will never be five. If somebody says, "No, my calculation is two plus two equal to five." Will it be accepted?
Guest: I'm afraid sometimes it can be true. (laughs)
Prabhupada: How it can be true?
Guest: One plus one can equal three.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Guest: One plus one can equal three sometimes.
Prabhupada: Is there mathematical calculation?
Guest: I know that it's ah... I mean things reproduce. Life is not so fixed, not so rigid. But one does have to be trained, it's true. Training is, some people can understand and some people cannot understand.
Prabhupada: That is difference of understanding.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: The fact is true. But if I cannot understand, that is my misfortune.
Guest: Yes. And if I can't understand what this is the end of the... So yes, it's the same. I think this is right.
Prabhupada: God is fact. But if somebody cannot understand, it is his misfortune.
Guest: Yes. And another time, another place.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: As you say, there are many oceans. The Christians say, "In my father's house are many mansions." A Chair. (indistinct) Good enough?
Prabhupada: No, you can sit down.
Guest: This has come a long way from the Barrier Reef, the Pacific. These shells. The shells.
Prabhupada: Oh yes.
Guest: From the Pacific. From the Barrier Reef, Australia. You know the Barrier Reef?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: Yes, that's where they come from, the Barrier Reef.
Prabhupada: I have seen the reef.
Guest: You have?
Prabhupada: In Australia.
Guest: Oh, yes. I would like to see that. The sea is wonderful, isn't it? You like the sea they tell me.
Prabhupada: Oh yes. Very green, clear.
Guest: Always a different color though. Always a little different isn't it?
Prabhupada: Well, reef I have seen. It is about, not less than two hundred feet.
Guest: Really? They say under the water is beautiful, the light, and the color.
Prabhupada: They go under the water?
Guest: They go, yes, under the water, in skin-diving. The coral, coral? Grows coral doesn't it? They say it's all, very beautiful. Jaya. Well, thank you, Prabhupada, jaya.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Give him prasada. Thank you.
Srutakirti: Take a little sweet.
Prabhupada: What is your name?
Guest: Peter.
Prabhupada: Peter, oh yes.
Guest: Thank you very much.
Prabhupada: Jaya. (end)
Prabhupada: Eh.
Guest: They are not the same.
Prabhupada: Yes. Varieties. Everything is variety. Everything is variety, full of varieties. We find the same species of rose. Still, you'll find varieties. In human, twin brothers you will find still varieties.
Guest: And in Goloka Vrndavana, are there still varieties? Are there still varieties in Vrndavana?
Prabhupada: Vrndavana?
Srutakirti: Goloka Vrndavana, are there still varieties he said.
Prabhupada: Oh yes. There are varieties. Ananda, ananda, pleasure means varieties. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. Without varieties, just like we prepare from grains, sugar, ghee, hundreds of varieties. If you simply give grain, ghee and sugar, it will not be enjoyable. But the same thing, you prepare in varieties and give you a plate, oh, you'll say, "Oh, so nice thing." The ingredients are the same. Grains, ghee and sugar, that's all. Similarly, this material world, the ingredients are the same. Namely five gross elements and three subtle elements, finer. Earth, water, air, fire, sky. These are gross elements. And mind, intelligence, ego these are finer elements. Combined together this material world has come. The brain behind is a living entity. Just like we are using these ingredients, these five elements: earth, water, air, fire, sky, making this building, making this table, making this chair, vase, so many things, harmonium, pictures, book. So the ingredients are the same, but my brain is working in different varieties. My brain or your brain. Human brain. Similarly this material cosmic manifestation is full of varieties. The brain behind it is Krsna. That is stated, you have read our Bhagavad-gita?
Guest: I've taken a look.
Prabhupada: There is a verse. Find out:
mayadhyaksena prakrtih
suyate sa-caracaram
hetunanena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
[Bg. 9.10]
Srutakirti:
mayadhyaksena prakrtih
suyate sa-caracaram
hetunanena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
[Bg. 9.10]
"This material nature is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, and it is producing all moving and unmoving beings. By its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again."
Prabhupada: Purport?
Srutakirti: It is clearly stated here that the Supreme Lord, although aloof from all the activities of the material world, remains the supreme director. The Supreme Lord is the supreme will and the background of this material manifestation, but the management is being conducted by material nature. Krsna also states in Bhagavad-gita that of all the living entities in different forms and species, "I am the Father." The father gives seeds to the womb of the mother for the child, and similarly the Supreme Lord by His mere glance injects all the living entities into the womb of material nature, and they come out in their different forms and species, according to their last desires and activities. All these living entities, although born under the glance of the Supreme Lord, still take their different bodies according to their past deeds and desires. So the Lord is not directly attached to this material creation. He simply glances over material nature; material nature is thus activated, and everything is created immediately. Because He glances over material nature, there is undoubtedly activity on the part of the Supreme Lord, but He has nothing to do with the manifestation of the material world directly. This example is given in the smrti: when there is a fragrant flower before someone, the fragrance is touched by the smelling power of the person, yet the smelling and the flower are detached from one another. There is a similar connection between the material world and the Supreme Personality of Godhead; actually He has nothing to do with this material world, but He creates by His glance and ordains. In summary, material nature, without the superintendence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, cannot do anything. Yet the Supreme Personality is detached from all material activities.
Guest: Is modern science materialism, Prabhupada? Is it materialism?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: All, all materialism?
Prabhupada: Just dealing with earth, water, air, fire, sky. That's all.
Guest: And in this time, modern science, you know, physics, chemistry, mathematics; is this all materialism?
Prabhupada: All materialism.
Guest: All materialism.
Prabhupada: They do not know what is spiritual.
Guest: And inside these people doing this work, is it Krsna? Or what is it makes them do the work?
Prabhupada: No. The soul is a living being. So nature is supplying material and he's molding in different forms. Just like earth is not man's creation. Earth is God's creation, or it is product of God's energy. But we are using this earth and molding in different forms, different pots, different dolls. So ingredients are supplied by God. Nature means God's energy. We simply handle them. We cannot produce anything, we transform only. Just like this iron, we cannot produce iron. It is gotten from the mine, iron bar. Now we have transformed into different forms. Because we have got creative energy like God, not very great, in very minute quantity. So as God has created by His intelligence, the whole universe -- we are creating this table, this pillow, this harmonium -- that's all. What you are finding?
Srutakirti: I was just looking at that verse again.
Prabhupada: Which verse?
Srutakirti: Mayadhyaksena...
Prabhupada: Oh.
mayadhyaksena prakrtih
suyate sa-caracaram
hetunanena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
[Bg. 9.10]
The Bhagavad-gita is the perfect information of everything. One has to study carefully, that's all. It is perfect information. And you can accept it with your good logic. Not that blindly you accept. Now just like Krsna says: "The material elements are My energy." Now you can consider, you can argue, you can make argument, you'll come to the conclusion. Just like material elements, water, the vast water. The ocean, Atlantic Ocean, vast water. So it is created by God's energy. How can you explain with your argument? Because it is said there, Krsna says, that "This is My energy." Now, if you accept it, it is all right. But if you have got hesitation, what is your reason?
Guest: Because one man says one thing and one man says another thing. So many people have different things to say.
Prabhupada: No, personally. Suppose I ask you. What is your, you want to ask me?
Hamsaduta: You have, that letter has a return address from Mandalibhadra?
Prabhupada: Yes, it is here. Now the water... Just like from your body, water is produced, is it not?
Guest: Transformed?
Prabhupada: Transformed or whatever, but you see urine is coming, perspiration is coming. So these different waters are produced by your energy within the body. So why not from God's energy the vast water?
Guest: Yes, truly.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: But why should he give us...
Prabhupada: Because God is unlimited, He has got unlimited energy. have got limited energy. I can pass urine, say one pound, I can have perspiration say, one ounce but if God likes He can produce unlimited water. Why this one Atlantic Ocean? Many millions of Atlantic Oceans He can produce. Water produced from His body. So where is the difficulty to understand? When Krsna says that the elements... Other matters are growing. Just like the hair. Now, today, I have shaved. Three days after, again it will grow. So I have got my energy within by which I'm constantly growing. But, hair is a material thing. So anything you take, it grows from the Supreme. It is very easy to understand.
Guest: Hmm. And ah, this inside, it grows because of Krsna does it?
Prabhupada: Everything is growing on account of Krsna. Your body, inside or outside, it is made of these five elements: earth, water, air, fire, like that. It is nothing but combination of these five elements.
Guest: Is the water inside the same as the water in the ocean?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: It's the same water.
Prabhupada: Yes. You... Have you tasted ever perspiration?
Guest: Hmm?
Prabhupada: Perspiration, have you tasted?
Guest: Tasted it, yes, salt.
Prabhupada: Salt, yes.
Guest: Ocean, yes.
Prabhupada: It has got.
Guest: But one ocean is not the same as another eh? My business is mathematics. It's not very transcendental.
Prabhupada: You are teacher?
Guest: No, not anymore. It's not very transcendental.
Srutakirti: He's asking if his business is transcendental.
Prabhupada: No, if it is used for Krsna, then it is transcendental. If it is used for your sense gratification, then it is material. That is the difference.
Guest: Yes. And how do you know whether you're using it for Krsna or not?
Prabhupada: Yes. That requires training from the Krsna's representative, guru. Just like these boys are being trained up in Krsna consciousness. So it requires little training. Just like you are mathematician. To make another student mathematician, you have to train him. You have to teach him how to calculate two plus two equal to four. It will never be five. If somebody says, "No, my calculation is two plus two equal to five." Will it be accepted?
Guest: I'm afraid sometimes it can be true. (laughs)
Prabhupada: How it can be true?
Guest: One plus one can equal three.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Guest: One plus one can equal three sometimes.
Prabhupada: Is there mathematical calculation?
Guest: I know that it's ah... I mean things reproduce. Life is not so fixed, not so rigid. But one does have to be trained, it's true. Training is, some people can understand and some people cannot understand.
Prabhupada: That is difference of understanding.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: The fact is true. But if I cannot understand, that is my misfortune.
Guest: Yes. And if I can't understand what this is the end of the... So yes, it's the same. I think this is right.
Prabhupada: God is fact. But if somebody cannot understand, it is his misfortune.
Guest: Yes. And another time, another place.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: As you say, there are many oceans. The Christians say, "In my father's house are many mansions." A Chair. (indistinct) Good enough?
Prabhupada: No, you can sit down.
Guest: This has come a long way from the Barrier Reef, the Pacific. These shells. The shells.
Prabhupada: Oh yes.
Guest: From the Pacific. From the Barrier Reef, Australia. You know the Barrier Reef?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: Yes, that's where they come from, the Barrier Reef.
Prabhupada: I have seen the reef.
Guest: You have?
Prabhupada: In Australia.
Guest: Oh, yes. I would like to see that. The sea is wonderful, isn't it? You like the sea they tell me.
Prabhupada: Oh yes. Very green, clear.
Guest: Always a different color though. Always a little different isn't it?
Prabhupada: Well, reef I have seen. It is about, not less than two hundred feet.
Guest: Really? They say under the water is beautiful, the light, and the color.
Prabhupada: They go under the water?
Guest: They go, yes, under the water, in skin-diving. The coral, coral? Grows coral doesn't it? They say it's all, very beautiful. Jaya. Well, thank you, Prabhupada, jaya.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Give him prasada. Thank you.
Srutakirti: Take a little sweet.
Prabhupada: What is your name?
Guest: Peter.
Prabhupada: Peter, oh yes.
Guest: Thank you very much.
Prabhupada: Jaya. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Room Conversation -- September 1, 1973, London
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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