Hari-sauri: Yes. You said
preaching is a thankless task.Prabhupada: Just see Jesus Christ-crucified.
What was his fault? He was crucified. Of course, he was not crucified. Nobody
can crucify him. But the people are so thankless...
Hari-sauri: That they wanted to do that.
Prabhupada: Such a great personality, son of God. He wanted to deliver God consciousness. And return, he was crucified. We don't take Jesus Christ very insignificantly. We give him all honor. He's representative of God. He tried to preach according to the time, place, circumstances, country, people. Otherwise he is representative of God.
Hari-sauri: Yeah. He only preached for three years too.
Prabhupada: He could not preach even but still, in three years what he did is wonderful.
Hari-sauri: Yes, He's world famous for the last two thousand years.
Prabhupada: Yes, not joke. Unless he's God representative, how he can be so famous? That we know. I told in Melbourne, "What is your idea of Jesus Christ?" And "He's our guru," I told. You remember that?
Hari-sauri: I don't... That was at one of those...
Prabhupada: The priest meeting.
Hari-sauri: Yes. I didn't attend that. I wasn't there.
Prabhupada: They asked me. And, "He's our guru." They very much appreciated. He is preaching God's consciousness, so he is our guru, spiritual master. That's a fact. Don't take him otherwise. He's guru.
Hari-sauri: It's just his nonsense followers.
Prabhupada: Gurusu nara-matih. Such person, great personality, why shall think of him as ordinary human being? That is naraki-buddhi.
Hari-sauri: Yes.
Prabhupada: Anyone who is preaching God's glories, he is guru. So how can I decry him? He is guru. Tad vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Unless one is guru how he can preach about God?
Hari-sauri: Yes. Actually we have a much better appreciation of Jesus than anyone.
Prabhupada: More yes. Oh, yes.
Hari-sauri: Because we actually understand the value of the guru.
Prabhupada: We are the greatest Christian. We follow his instruction; we accept him as guru.
Hari-sauri: Yeah. Without following the guru's instructions, there's no question of appreciating who he is or his work.
Prabhupada: And this word, Jesus, the Christ, it is not?
Hari-sauri: Well, originally they say it was "Jesus of the Christ."
Prabhupada: (indistinct) Christ means...
Hari-sauri: God.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: So they... Originally it was "Jesus of the Christ," meaning he was son of God.
Prabhupada: Yes. That Christ is Krsna.
Hari-sauri: Yeah. Same word.
Prabhupada: Hm. Krisht, Krisht. Christ means Krisht, Krisht. Krishta is vulgar expression of Krsna. No, from his teaching, we can understand he is representative of God.
Hari-sauri: Oh, yes. What he was teaching is exactly in accord with what we're doing.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: I was reading some of his instructions, what he was giving to his original disciples. And he gave them examples, that "The birds, they are not worrying about their food. God is supplying. So you should not worry for your food. You should simply go out and preach."
Prabhupada: He said like that?
Hari-sauri: Yes. He said, "So what should you worry if you go out and preach? Do you think that God will not give to you?"
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: "He is giving to the birds."
Prabhupada: Yes. That is, our mission.
Hari-sauri: Yes. And he told them, "You should not worry for your food, for your clothing, for somewhere to stay. If you preach then God will look after all those things."
Prabhupada: Yes. That's a fact.
Hari-sauri: And he had them give up everything. They had a common pool. Anyone that came to join him, they would pool all their resources and share it among them. Anybody who was with nothing, he would get something. They would get food and clothing, like that.
Prabhupada: We are planning like that. "Come, take your food. Reside comfortably. Chant Hare Krsna."
Hari-sauri: Yes. We have no objection for...
Prabhupada: No.
Hari-sauri: ...feeding. He was an actual Vaisnava.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Hari-sauri: Teaching Vaisnava principles.
Prabhupada: If he has taken sometimes fish, there was no way. What can be done? Not for his sense gratification.
Hari-sauri: Even that's not certain, that he took fish anyway.
Prabhupada: Sometimes it is said.
Hari-sauri: Well, it mentions that they distributed foodstuffs to a lot of people, fish and bread, 'cause that's all that was available.
Prabhupada: Yes, what can be done?
Hari-sauri: And because it wasn't always easy to get good water, there's a very cheap kind of wine. It's not actually very alcoholic. It's very, very cheap. Then they used to drink that because there's no good water.
Prabhupada: That is not plea that we shall drink bottle after bottle.
Hari-sauri: Yes. (laughs) Catholic priests, they have a big stock in their cabinets, so much wine.
Prabhupada: If they want to be reformed, we can reform them. On the basis of Bible, we can reform them. There is no difficulty.
Hari-sauri: Yes.
Prabhupada: Most of my disciples they are coming from the Christian group. They can reform. Chanting is also recommended in the Bible, the glories of the Lord. I do not know why these rascals, Protestant... That means... The Protestant means last class. Why they should protest against Jesus law? Protestant means that. They protested. Is it not?
Hari-sauri: I'm not sure about... I don't know much about the history of Protestants.
Prabhupada: Yes. That King John, who started this Protestant movement? Some king in England.
Hari-sauri: Yes, it was started like that.
Prabhupada: Yes. He was forbidden not to divorce his wife.
Hari-sauri: That was the Church of England, Henry the VIII.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, Henry the VIII. He started this Protestant.
Hari-sauri: He was excommunicated from the Catholic Church.
Prabhupada: But this...
Hari-sauri: So he started the Church of England.
Prabhupada: ...Protestant group was started by him.
Hari-sauri: I don't know anything about their history.
Prabhupada: That is the history.
Hari-sauri: There's always been fighting between the Protestants and the Catholics though.
Prabhupada: Well, fighting must be there. They protested.
Hari-sauri: There's so many Christian sects.
Prabhupada: There are many. Means they don't want anything genuine. Something imitation. What is the cause of fighting, this Ireland? Unnecessarily. It is going on in Europe since long time. In France it was very terrible fight. I have seen that Church. They would bell, and they'll come and fight Protestant. You have been there? No. Concord. It is... That place is called Concord. So history there is a building, church. The Catholics would come and kill the Protestants. The Joan of Arc.
Hari-sauri: She was burnt.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: Europe has a big history of...
Prabhupada: Fighting.
Hari-sauri: Religious fighting.
Prabhupada: Crusade? Crusade?
Hari-sauri: Yes. The Crusades were against the Arabs, though.
Prabhupada: That was a religious fight.
Hari-sauri: Yes. Christians against the Mohammedans. That article of Gurudasa's was very nice.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Hari-sauri: They asked him, "Do you think that another religion will help Ireland?" criticizing that "We've already got two religions and they're fighting. What do you think you're going to do?" So then he said, "Well, actually, it's another way of life, and Ireland could certainly use another way of life." It was a good point. We get a good reception there too, our devotees. People are very pious there because Ireland is still very simple.
Prabhupada: Everywhere people are simple. That is my opinion. Mass people, they are simple. The leaders spoil them.
Hari-sauri: Yes. That's a fact. Most people are just... They're in ignorance.
Prabhupada: Yes. The human psychology is the same for man, woman. That's all. Amongst the lower animals you see. The pigeons, they are the same. The sparrow, they are the same everywhere. The squirrels, the same, the same. So why men should be different?
Hari-sauri: It's artificial, the differences they've created themselves.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: On national basis.
Prabhupada: In Russia I have seen. The people are the same.
Hari-sauri: Yes. Common mass of people are always...
Prabhupada: Simple.
Hari-sauri: I think I'll see what's happening with the van.
Prabhupada: Hm. (end)
Hari-sauri: That they wanted to do that.
Prabhupada: Such a great personality, son of God. He wanted to deliver God consciousness. And return, he was crucified. We don't take Jesus Christ very insignificantly. We give him all honor. He's representative of God. He tried to preach according to the time, place, circumstances, country, people. Otherwise he is representative of God.
Hari-sauri: Yeah. He only preached for three years too.
Prabhupada: He could not preach even but still, in three years what he did is wonderful.
Hari-sauri: Yes, He's world famous for the last two thousand years.
Prabhupada: Yes, not joke. Unless he's God representative, how he can be so famous? That we know. I told in Melbourne, "What is your idea of Jesus Christ?" And "He's our guru," I told. You remember that?
Hari-sauri: I don't... That was at one of those...
Prabhupada: The priest meeting.
Hari-sauri: Yes. I didn't attend that. I wasn't there.
Prabhupada: They asked me. And, "He's our guru." They very much appreciated. He is preaching God's consciousness, so he is our guru, spiritual master. That's a fact. Don't take him otherwise. He's guru.
Hari-sauri: It's just his nonsense followers.
Prabhupada: Gurusu nara-matih. Such person, great personality, why shall think of him as ordinary human being? That is naraki-buddhi.
Hari-sauri: Yes.
Prabhupada: Anyone who is preaching God's glories, he is guru. So how can I decry him? He is guru. Tad vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Unless one is guru how he can preach about God?
Hari-sauri: Yes. Actually we have a much better appreciation of Jesus than anyone.
Prabhupada: More yes. Oh, yes.
Hari-sauri: Because we actually understand the value of the guru.
Prabhupada: We are the greatest Christian. We follow his instruction; we accept him as guru.
Hari-sauri: Yeah. Without following the guru's instructions, there's no question of appreciating who he is or his work.
Prabhupada: And this word, Jesus, the Christ, it is not?
Hari-sauri: Well, originally they say it was "Jesus of the Christ."
Prabhupada: (indistinct) Christ means...
Hari-sauri: God.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: So they... Originally it was "Jesus of the Christ," meaning he was son of God.
Prabhupada: Yes. That Christ is Krsna.
Hari-sauri: Yeah. Same word.
Prabhupada: Hm. Krisht, Krisht. Christ means Krisht, Krisht. Krishta is vulgar expression of Krsna. No, from his teaching, we can understand he is representative of God.
Hari-sauri: Oh, yes. What he was teaching is exactly in accord with what we're doing.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: I was reading some of his instructions, what he was giving to his original disciples. And he gave them examples, that "The birds, they are not worrying about their food. God is supplying. So you should not worry for your food. You should simply go out and preach."
Prabhupada: He said like that?
Hari-sauri: Yes. He said, "So what should you worry if you go out and preach? Do you think that God will not give to you?"
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: "He is giving to the birds."
Prabhupada: Yes. That is, our mission.
Hari-sauri: Yes. And he told them, "You should not worry for your food, for your clothing, for somewhere to stay. If you preach then God will look after all those things."
Prabhupada: Yes. That's a fact.
Hari-sauri: And he had them give up everything. They had a common pool. Anyone that came to join him, they would pool all their resources and share it among them. Anybody who was with nothing, he would get something. They would get food and clothing, like that.
Prabhupada: We are planning like that. "Come, take your food. Reside comfortably. Chant Hare Krsna."
Hari-sauri: Yes. We have no objection for...
Prabhupada: No.
Hari-sauri: ...feeding. He was an actual Vaisnava.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Hari-sauri: Teaching Vaisnava principles.
Prabhupada: If he has taken sometimes fish, there was no way. What can be done? Not for his sense gratification.
Hari-sauri: Even that's not certain, that he took fish anyway.
Prabhupada: Sometimes it is said.
Hari-sauri: Well, it mentions that they distributed foodstuffs to a lot of people, fish and bread, 'cause that's all that was available.
Prabhupada: Yes, what can be done?
Hari-sauri: And because it wasn't always easy to get good water, there's a very cheap kind of wine. It's not actually very alcoholic. It's very, very cheap. Then they used to drink that because there's no good water.
Prabhupada: That is not plea that we shall drink bottle after bottle.
Hari-sauri: Yes. (laughs) Catholic priests, they have a big stock in their cabinets, so much wine.
Prabhupada: If they want to be reformed, we can reform them. On the basis of Bible, we can reform them. There is no difficulty.
Hari-sauri: Yes.
Prabhupada: Most of my disciples they are coming from the Christian group. They can reform. Chanting is also recommended in the Bible, the glories of the Lord. I do not know why these rascals, Protestant... That means... The Protestant means last class. Why they should protest against Jesus law? Protestant means that. They protested. Is it not?
Hari-sauri: I'm not sure about... I don't know much about the history of Protestants.
Prabhupada: Yes. That King John, who started this Protestant movement? Some king in England.
Hari-sauri: Yes, it was started like that.
Prabhupada: Yes. He was forbidden not to divorce his wife.
Hari-sauri: That was the Church of England, Henry the VIII.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, Henry the VIII. He started this Protestant.
Hari-sauri: He was excommunicated from the Catholic Church.
Prabhupada: But this...
Hari-sauri: So he started the Church of England.
Prabhupada: ...Protestant group was started by him.
Hari-sauri: I don't know anything about their history.
Prabhupada: That is the history.
Hari-sauri: There's always been fighting between the Protestants and the Catholics though.
Prabhupada: Well, fighting must be there. They protested.
Hari-sauri: There's so many Christian sects.
Prabhupada: There are many. Means they don't want anything genuine. Something imitation. What is the cause of fighting, this Ireland? Unnecessarily. It is going on in Europe since long time. In France it was very terrible fight. I have seen that Church. They would bell, and they'll come and fight Protestant. You have been there? No. Concord. It is... That place is called Concord. So history there is a building, church. The Catholics would come and kill the Protestants. The Joan of Arc.
Hari-sauri: She was burnt.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: Europe has a big history of...
Prabhupada: Fighting.
Hari-sauri: Religious fighting.
Prabhupada: Crusade? Crusade?
Hari-sauri: Yes. The Crusades were against the Arabs, though.
Prabhupada: That was a religious fight.
Hari-sauri: Yes. Christians against the Mohammedans. That article of Gurudasa's was very nice.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Hari-sauri: They asked him, "Do you think that another religion will help Ireland?" criticizing that "We've already got two religions and they're fighting. What do you think you're going to do?" So then he said, "Well, actually, it's another way of life, and Ireland could certainly use another way of life." It was a good point. We get a good reception there too, our devotees. People are very pious there because Ireland is still very simple.
Prabhupada: Everywhere people are simple. That is my opinion. Mass people, they are simple. The leaders spoil them.
Hari-sauri: Yes. That's a fact. Most people are just... They're in ignorance.
Prabhupada: Yes. The human psychology is the same for man, woman. That's all. Amongst the lower animals you see. The pigeons, they are the same. The sparrow, they are the same everywhere. The squirrels, the same, the same. So why men should be different?
Hari-sauri: It's artificial, the differences they've created themselves.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: On national basis.
Prabhupada: In Russia I have seen. The people are the same.
Hari-sauri: Yes. Common mass of people are always...
Prabhupada: Simple.
Hari-sauri: I think I'll see what's happening with the van.
Prabhupada: Hm. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977,
Bhuvanesvara
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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