Prabhupada: And Dr. Judah has
written one very nice book. I have read it.Brahmananda: Dr. Judah's
book.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, I have read it. Did you like that book?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Jayatirtha: He's coming here in four days to see you.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is very scholarly written, and he has appreciated our...
Tamala Krsna: I've met him many times. Every day we are performing the festival, kirtana, he is very favorable.
Prabhupada: He's a good man. He has studied the movement very fairly. He is only surprised, "How these drug-addicted hippies have become devotee?" That is his surprise. He has mentioned that, that "We appreciate your movement, that you have turned so many drug-addicted hippies into devotee of Krsna and in the service of humanity." That they are appreciating. And that is the fact. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah. If one is turned into devotee, then all the good qualities automatically become manifest. That is the verdict of Bhagavata. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12]. Anyone who is not a devotee, his material qualification has no value. Mano-rathenasati dhavato bahih. He is hovering over the mental plane. Therefore in your country, Western country, the so-called big, big philosophers, scientists, they could not do anything tangible, because they are hovering on the mental plane. Hare Krsna. Manorathena. Mana means mind and ratha means car. They are driving on the mental car. So mind is material. Tamala Krsna Maharaja-selling more books?
Jayatirtha: Tamala Krsna Maharaja is selling the most books.
Prabhupada: He is collecting $30,000?
Jayatirtha: How much you are collecting, Tamala, last month?
Tamala Krsna: Well, we collected a lot.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Tamala Krsna: The collection is very good. The books are selling.
Prabhupada: Selling amongst public or educational institution?
Tamala Krsna: We are selling to all classes of people, big books and small books.
Prabhupada: You have got now proper engagement.
Tamala Krsna: I started by doing this.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes. No. You are feeling happy in this engagement.
Tamala Krsna: Well, I'm happy to serve you, Prabhupada. Whatever pleases you makes me happy. We are getting many new men. Now we have about 115 men.
Prabhupada: So, another bus?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, more and more buses.
Prabhupada: Yes. Your country is full of buses. Yasmin dese yad acarah. Your country is of motorcar, so take advantage of motorcar and utilize it for Krsna. That is the tactics. Not that "Oh, we have become Vaisnava. We don't touch motorcar. It is material." This is not our philosophy. Nirbandhe krsna sambandhe yukta-vairagyam ucyate. We can utilize everything in relationship with Krsna because we see everything Krsna's. If the motorcar is there, it is for Krsna. That is our mission. Karandhara came there.
Jayatirtha: Karandhara came. Yes.
Prabhupada: So he said, "I am again surrendered." (laughs)
Jayatirtha: I hope so.
Prabhupada: So he has gone to Tehran?
Jayatirtha: Yes. A letter just came from him recently saying that he was very enthusiastic in his service there.
Prabhupada: He is business-minded. Let him do business for Krsna.
Jayatirtha: Yes. He says there is so much money there they don't know how to spend it. In Iran people have so much money they don't what to do with it.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are getting money for nothing. (laughs)
Jayatirtha: Yes. Right. It's coming out of the ground.
Prabhupada: And the Bengali saying, dhula mati bhatta kare mata (?): "They are catching dust and it is turning into coin." This proverb is there, dhula mati bhatta kare mato. He is thinking that I am taking some dust, but when it is in hand, it is coin. That is good time. And when it is bad time, if you catch coin and when it is in your hand, it is dust. We should think that time may also come. Yes. Because after all, it is Krsna's desire, turn dust into coin, to turn coin into dust. So we should be always careful. If we remain Krsna conscious, then the coin will never turn into dust. Otherwise it can be turned. So you American, you are now full of coins. Before turning into dust, catch Krsna with the coin. It will never turn into dust. It will remain coin. Hmm? I am very hopeful of the Americans. Because you are so nice devotees, you can keep your country coinful, no dustful. India is giving up Krsna, and therefore they are turning into dust.
Jayatirtha: So much dust.
Tamala Krsna: The whole thing is being done by the mercy of your books, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Well, it is not my book; it is Krsna's book. I am trying my best to present it as it is. That's all. That much you can say my, but there is nothing mine.
Tamala Krsna: The effect of these books is hard to perceive immediately because we can't imagine how... So many millions of books have gone out. In the future they will all fructify as devotees, the people who have read them.
Prabhupada: Yes. When they will read, then they will get. Nowadays in the Sixth Canto, Fourth Chapter, the soul and how the soul is covered, that is being described wonderfully. Srimad-Bhagavatam amalam puranam. Vidvams cakre satvata-samhitam. It is written by the most learned Vyasadeva, vidvams, and satvata-samhitam. How merciful he was. He is still living, Vyasadeva. He is still existing.
anarthopasamam saksad
bhakti-yogam adhoksaje
lokasya ajanatah vidvams
cakre satvata...
[SB 1.7.6]
Do you remember this verse? It is in the First Canto. Anartha. The soul has been embarrassed, the unnecessary things. Just like a man is within the huge garbage. What is his position? If... You have got your garbage car, so within that, (chuckles) if a man is pushed...
Tamala Krsna: Abominable.
Prabhupada: It is like that. Twenty-four elements. Five material elements, three subtle elements, then five working senses and five all knowledge gathering senses -- how many?
Jayatirtha: Eighteen.
Prabhupada: Eighteen? No.
Jayatirtha: So far.
Prabhupada: Twenty-three, I think. Five gross elements, five senses..., five knowledge gathering senses, and five working senses, fifteen,...
Tamala Krsna: Then the objects...
Jayatirtha: Three subtle...
Prabhupada: The mind, ego, and mahat-tattva, eighteen, yes. And then five sense objects, the rupa, rasa, form, taste, like that. Then twenty-three.
Jayatirtha: The aggregate, pradhana.
Prabhupada: Pradhana, and then the soul, twenty-five. Twenty-four and three gunas. Three gunas: sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. Twenty-seven. So twenty-seven layers of garbage. Underneath, the soul is. What he will do? He is a small particle, soul, and he is covered with so many material elements. To come out of it is very very difficult. But if one is engaged in devotional service he can come out immediately. Just like when one is spiritually perfect, he goes immediately to Krsna, penetrating these material coverings of the universe. Immediately. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9], immediately. That is spiritual force.
mam ca vyabhicarini
bhakti-yogena yah sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]
So can you give me a list how much money you have to realize from our devotees who have taken money, loan?
Jayatirtha: Who have taken money in loan? You mean unauthorized loan?
Prabhupada: Not unauthorized, authorized.
Jayatirtha: Oh, how much Book Trust has loaned...
Prabhupada: Unauthorized also? There are?
Jayatirtha: How much Book Trust loans there are. You want to see the list of Book Trust loans?
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Jayatirtha: Yes, we can give you that list.
Prabhupada: There is unauthorized loan also?
Jayatirtha: I thought you were... Sometimes in the past from time to time these things have gone on.
Prabhupada: Past is all right. Have you received any news from Bombay?
Brahmananda: Yes, there's two letter from Gopala Krsna. Palika brought them. Palika has come.
Prabhupada: Oh. So what is the position there?
Brahmananda: Well, I haven't read the letters yet, but she was saying that on the whole Mr. Matri now is diminishing. They have met with his superior in the party, and the superior is very much, he's not happy with Mr. Matri's activities and his reputation, and he says that in the forthcoming election he may not even put him on the election ballot.
Prabhupada: That will be right punishment for him. Then he will understand. That will be more than death. Yes. Politicians, if they are refused political seat, that is more than death. Just like Krsna was advising Arjuna that "You are known as a great hero, and if you don't fight then they will blaspheme you like anything. So that will be more than death. Better die. When they will say nindanti, 'Oh, the Arjuna has become a coward. He could not fight. He will die.' So that blaspheme will be more than death." So by the grace of Krsna it has come to the notice of the...
Brahmananda: The other party members, the party superiors, they are... His reputation is damaging their party.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: His activities are so unscrupulous.
Prabhupada: And what about the N.O.C.? No-Objection Certificate?
Brahmananda: I don't know the details, but Palika said that they are..., the holes have been dug and they're expecting to put the foundation in before the monsoon. And that there was some attempt to stop the some digging. but that has been defeated. When I was there there was question about getting the No-Objection Certificate for the already-existing temple.
Prabhupada: Existing temple?
Brahmananda: Well, the little temple we have there now.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Tamala Krsna: Every year it has to be renewed.
Brahmananda: Yeah. So this year they have by some trick they have made it that the police must give their No-Objection Certificate. Usually that is not required each year.
Prabhupada: They are harassing us in so many ways. Only in Bombay.
Tamala Krsna: That means if we become successful finally, it will be a tremendous success, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Something very big will happen there.
Brahmananda: They've concluded that the opposition is not from the central government but from the local. Because the projects are going on without being hampered in other places in India. It is only in Bombay that we are getting this difficulty.
Prabhupada: In central government that Indira Gandhi is now...
Brahmananda: Her position is now jeopardized.
Tamala Krsna: Really?
Prabhupada: She is convicted. That election was not properly...
Tamala Krsna: Who has convicted her?
Brahmananda: High-court.
Tamala Krsna: How was... I am surprised they could do that. She's practically like a dictator.
Prabhupada: And she has been done in his (her) own city, Allahabad.
Brahmananda: They have lost the election, Congress Party.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, this is a recent new election.
Brahmananda: Yes, in Gujarat.
Prabhupada: Now our next attempt will be Kuruksetra, where Krsna personally spoke Bhagavad-gita. Recently I have been in Kuruksetra. You were... Yes. So I have decided to do something there. Yes. Because Krsna personally spoke there. Our two movements -- we are preaching Krsna consciousness on the basis of Bhagavad-gita and we are holding Ratha-yatra -- all these two incidences took place at Kuruksetra. Kuruksetra is so important. Krsna, Balarama, and His sister, on some occasion of lunar eclipse, they came from Dvaraka in a chariot, ratha, two brothers and sister, and that is the occasion of Ratha-yatra. And the Vrndavana inhabitants, especially Radharani, they came from Vrndavana to see Krsna after long time. And she pleaded that "Krsna, You are the same Krsna, I am the same Radharani..." (Prabhupada is coughing) Is there any water? No. "But this place is not the proper place. Let Us go to Vrndavana." That is Mahaprabhu's feeling.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. You've expressed that in Madhya-lila.
Prabhupada: That Mahaprabhu's feeling of Krsna is like that. Therefore He took part in the Ratha-yatra and invited Krsna, "Come to Vrndavana." So these two important things took place in the Kuruksetra. So we must have a very big temple there, and a varnasrama college. This is my desire. Krsna's direct instruction, Bhagavad-gita. It should be a historical... It is historical. People should come here as the most important historical place. And Gita is well known all over the world. And Gita begins with the word dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg. 1.1]. So Kuruksetra, in that sense very important.
Brahmananda: That was one of the first things you told us when you came, that Kuruksetra is an actual place. There's a railway station. People can go there.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: We had never known that. We thought it was something mythological or...
Jayatirtha: Allegorical.
Prabhupada: That is not. These political leaders, they have made it. (reading sign:) Carpeteria. They manufacture carpet? We are already on the Venice road? No?
Jayatirtha: Yes. This is Venice Boulevard.
Prabhupada: You have got my passbook?
Jayatirtha: From the Liberty Bank?
Prabhupada: Not Liberty. Bank of America?
Jayatirtha: Passbook.
Prabhupada: Investment passbook?
Jayatirtha: Oh, from that savings account.
Prabhupada: I sent it to be made..., for making it up to date.
Jayatirtha: You mailed it?
Prabhupada: No, I gave to Gurukrpa and he sent through somebody.
Jayatirtha: He did not give it to me. Maybe he gave it to Ramesvara. I'll check with him. I think he must have forgotten.
Prabhupada: So the engineering block is now occupied?
Jayatirtha: Oh, yes. As we go by it, you can see the big sign is there, "Bhaktivedanta Book Trust." It's over here to the left.
Prabhupada: Oh. (laughs) So that Bhaktivedanta go-down has come here? No.
Jayatirtha: No, go-down is still there. This building is not large enough for that.
Tamala Krsna: You have not seen this building yet, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Oh, here is for lease. (Tamala Krsna and Jayatirtha discuss in background about leasing one of the buildings for a restaurant) [break]
(in Prabhupada's room:)
Prabhupada: But when they live, the tendency is there. Naturally I want to love somebody. It is not unnatural. When that love is reposed to Krsna, that is perfect. The Mayavadis, they are frustrated; therefore they want to make this love into zero. They cannot understand Krsna's love with gopis. They think it is another edition of this material... Oh, how are you, Hayagriva prabhu? How are you? You look better. You are looking better, brighter than when I saw you in New Vrindaban last. You have got so much talents for serving Krsna. Everyone has got. That I am speaking. We have to utilize it. From the very beginning I met you, I instructed to edit. That was the starting of our Back to Godhead. He is good typist also. You know that? (laughter) I think he is the best of all of our men. He can type very swiftly and correctly. I think in our group Hayagriva prabhu and Satsvarupa Maharaja are very good typist. And Jayadvaita I think you are also, no?
Jayadvaita: Yes.
Prabhupada: You are good typist? (laughter) So why you have not published Bali-mardana's article?
Jayadvaita: Bali-mardana's article.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayadvaita: We were waiting. We weren't sure if it was appropriate to publish it.
Prabhupada: He thought disappointed. He has published. He has written very nicely.
Jayadvaita: He has written nicely?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayadvaita: We can publish it?
Prabhupada: So we should... Yes, here is the... What is that?
Brahmananda: "Illusion and reality," two essays...
Prabhupada: He has presented very nicely. So we should encourage our men.
Jayadvaita: Publish it.
Prabhupada: Yes. And our men, all our men should write. Otherwise how we shall know that he has understood the philosophy? Writing means sravanam kirtanam. Sravanam means hearing from the authority and again repeat it. This is our business, sravanam kirtanam visnoh [SB 7.5.23], about Visnu, not for any politician or any other man. Sravanam kirtanam visnoh, about Krsna or Visnu. So that is success. Hear and repeat, hear and repeat. You haven't got to manufacture. Any one of us, simply if you reproduce the purport which I have given in the Bhagavata, you become a good speaker. What I am doing? I am the same thing, writing the same thing so that modern man can understand. Otherwise we are repeating the same thing. They are repeating also same thing, sense gratification. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. But because that is material, they are not getting happiness. But the spiritual thing, we are chanting the same Hare Krsna, simply repeating, but we are getting transcendental bliss. What we are doing? Same "Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna." So process is the same, the subject matter is different. So why you are behind publication? Now all the big men are here. Why our books are behind? Why? Here the editors are there. I don't think there is any scarcity.
Ramesvara: Now there is no scarcity.
Prabhupada: Huh? You have formerly... [break]
Ramesvara: If we want to have the books printed very quickly, they have to be printed in America, the new books.
Prabhupada: And the reprint there.
Ramesvara: Yes, we can do that.
Prabhupada: So why not give them some book also for ordinary?
Ramesvara: We are giving them a lot of business this year in Japan.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. We must deal with them very nicely. They have helped in the beginning. Yes. I gave them only $5,000 start, and I gave the order for 52,000, but they supplied. They got money. They were confident that we shall not cheat them. So our relation is very nice. So utilize it. [break] ...girl was, that the Japanese, they like our publication.
Ramesvara: Girl. Mula-prakrti.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Ramesvara: That girl that was seeing you in Hawaii, Mula-prakrti.
Prabhupada: Yes. She was very enthusiastic. Mula-prakrti? Where is Yadubara prabhu? Where is?
Jayatirtha: He's right here.
Prabhupada: Oh. You are feeling now nice?
Yadubara: Yes. I'm much improved.
Prabhupada: That's nice. So everyone feeling nice?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupada: You are also feeling nice?
Visakha: Now I am all right.
Ramesvara: The devotees at the Press will not feel nice until all your books are published.
Prabhupada: Hm. That's nice.
Jayatirtha: They are working now night shifts also.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Ramesvara: Twenty-four hours.
Jayatirtha: Twenty-four hours on the composers so that we can take full advantage of the machines.
Prabhupada: And Hayagriva prabhu, how many papers you are finishing? You can finish fifty papers at least.
Hayagriva: I am trying. One hour a tape.
Radha-vallabha: Hayagriva finished editing Volume Six of Madhya-lila today.
Prabhupada: Oh, Volume Six, Caitanya-caritamrta?
Radha-vallabha: Yes. Out of nine volumes, Hayagriva has finished six of Madhya-lila.
Prabhupada: Altogether there will be nine volumes?
Ramesvara: Of Madhya-lila.
Jayatirtha: Madhya-lila, all nine volumes.
Radha-vallabha: And four volumes Antya-lila.
Jayatirtha: Altogether sixteen volumes.
Prabhupada: Where is our Gargamuni?
Bhavananda: He is in the east. Buffalo.
Prabhupada: Preaching?
Bhavananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: So, you are with him, Sudama?
Sudama: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Preaching is going on nice?
Sudama: Yes.
Jayatirtha: Hayagriva told me that the whole Caitanya-caritamrta, the editing, will be finished by the end of August.
Prabhupada: They are coming also, Nitai...?
Jayatirtha: Nitai and Jagannatha are going to be coming...
Ramesvara: In about three days.
Jayatirtha: By the end of July they'll be... So it is going very fast now.
Prabhupada: Very good. Turnam yateta. We should try very fast before the next death comes. And death will come. So we shall prepare in such a way that before the next death comes, our, we finish our Krsna consciousness business and go back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. This is perfection. Because if we wait for another birth, maybe we may not get. Even Bharata Maharaja, he also slipped. He became a deer. So we should always be vigilant that "We have got this opportunity, human form of life. Let us utilize it to the fullest extent and be fit for going back to home, back to Godhead." That is intelligence. Not that "All right, I shall get again chance next birth." That is not very good policy. Turnam. Turnam means very hastily finish. Turnam yateta anumrtyum pated yavat. (sound of men practicing karate outside has pervaded background of entire room conversation) These people are wasting time, as if they will live forever. (chuckles) What is the use of this kar...?
Jayatirtha: Karate.
Prabhupada: Karate. It is very popular in Mexico.
Jayatirtha: Everywhere.
Prabhupada: But will that method save from death? When the death will come, will the sound "Go!" (laughter) will save them? This is foolishness. Instead of chanting Hare Krsna, they are resounding some sound, thinking that the sound will save him. This is called foolishness, mudha. (karate men begin shouting very loudly) Pisaci paile jane mati-cchanna haya. And if you ask them that "Why you are sounding so loudly? Chant Hare Krsna," they will laugh. (chuckles)
Visnujana: Srila Prabhupada, what did Bhaktivinoda Thakura mean when he said, "I am going, my work unfinished"?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Visnujana: When Bhaktivinoda Thakura stated that he was leaving this planet with his work unfinished.
Prabhupada: Then let us finish. We are descendant of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. So he kept unfinished so that we shall get the chance to finish it. That is his mercy. He could have finished immediately. He is Vaisnava, he is all-powerful. But he gave us chance that "You foolish people, you all also work." That is his mercy. So we should pray to Bhaktivinoda Thakura that "We are your grandchildren, great-grandchildren, so we have got some right to beg some mercy from you. The grandchildren get some indulgence from the grandfather. So I pray like that." It is Bhaktivinoda Thakura's mercy. A Vaisnava can... Krsna doesn't require anyone's help. Still, He is asking, "Surrender to Me." He doesn't require anyone's surrender. But it is for him good, one who surrenders. Not Krsna is in need of anyone's service. He is complete. But He comes as if He is in helpless condition and asking for us to surrender. So that is for his good. One who is surrendered, he'll get the result. Krsna is self-sufficient. Similarly, Bhaktivinoda Thakura is self-sufficient. But if he said that "I (am) keeping unfinished," that means he gave us the chance, the opportunity. So we should always pray to Bhaktivinoda Thakura to be merciful upon us so that we can execute his unfinished task. That should be our... And never we should think that "What Bhaktivinoda Thakura could not finish, I have finished." Don't think like that. It is not like that. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says in the Caitanya-caritamrta, eka ki amara nahi paya. (pause) You have not given index. That I have instructed. You should now prepare index.
Jayadvaita: That is being done for all the volumes.
Prabhupada: All the volumes must have index.
Radha-vallabha: All the Caitanya-caritamrta volumes have indexes.
Jayadvaita: Bengali index.
Prabhupada: This is the last one.
Ramesvara: Bengali and Sanskrit verses, and then general index.
Prabhupada: Is there any ekaki amara nahi paya mora? Eka ki?
Visnujana: Eke eke milila prabhu saba bhakta-gana.
Prabhupada: No, no, not that. [break] ...observing ekadasi today?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupada: So... (end)
Tamala Krsna: Yes, I have read it. Did you like that book?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Jayatirtha: He's coming here in four days to see you.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is very scholarly written, and he has appreciated our...
Tamala Krsna: I've met him many times. Every day we are performing the festival, kirtana, he is very favorable.
Prabhupada: He's a good man. He has studied the movement very fairly. He is only surprised, "How these drug-addicted hippies have become devotee?" That is his surprise. He has mentioned that, that "We appreciate your movement, that you have turned so many drug-addicted hippies into devotee of Krsna and in the service of humanity." That they are appreciating. And that is the fact. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah. If one is turned into devotee, then all the good qualities automatically become manifest. That is the verdict of Bhagavata. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12]. Anyone who is not a devotee, his material qualification has no value. Mano-rathenasati dhavato bahih. He is hovering over the mental plane. Therefore in your country, Western country, the so-called big, big philosophers, scientists, they could not do anything tangible, because they are hovering on the mental plane. Hare Krsna. Manorathena. Mana means mind and ratha means car. They are driving on the mental car. So mind is material. Tamala Krsna Maharaja-selling more books?
Jayatirtha: Tamala Krsna Maharaja is selling the most books.
Prabhupada: He is collecting $30,000?
Jayatirtha: How much you are collecting, Tamala, last month?
Tamala Krsna: Well, we collected a lot.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Tamala Krsna: The collection is very good. The books are selling.
Prabhupada: Selling amongst public or educational institution?
Tamala Krsna: We are selling to all classes of people, big books and small books.
Prabhupada: You have got now proper engagement.
Tamala Krsna: I started by doing this.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes. No. You are feeling happy in this engagement.
Tamala Krsna: Well, I'm happy to serve you, Prabhupada. Whatever pleases you makes me happy. We are getting many new men. Now we have about 115 men.
Prabhupada: So, another bus?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, more and more buses.
Prabhupada: Yes. Your country is full of buses. Yasmin dese yad acarah. Your country is of motorcar, so take advantage of motorcar and utilize it for Krsna. That is the tactics. Not that "Oh, we have become Vaisnava. We don't touch motorcar. It is material." This is not our philosophy. Nirbandhe krsna sambandhe yukta-vairagyam ucyate. We can utilize everything in relationship with Krsna because we see everything Krsna's. If the motorcar is there, it is for Krsna. That is our mission. Karandhara came there.
Jayatirtha: Karandhara came. Yes.
Prabhupada: So he said, "I am again surrendered." (laughs)
Jayatirtha: I hope so.
Prabhupada: So he has gone to Tehran?
Jayatirtha: Yes. A letter just came from him recently saying that he was very enthusiastic in his service there.
Prabhupada: He is business-minded. Let him do business for Krsna.
Jayatirtha: Yes. He says there is so much money there they don't know how to spend it. In Iran people have so much money they don't what to do with it.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are getting money for nothing. (laughs)
Jayatirtha: Yes. Right. It's coming out of the ground.
Prabhupada: And the Bengali saying, dhula mati bhatta kare mata (?): "They are catching dust and it is turning into coin." This proverb is there, dhula mati bhatta kare mato. He is thinking that I am taking some dust, but when it is in hand, it is coin. That is good time. And when it is bad time, if you catch coin and when it is in your hand, it is dust. We should think that time may also come. Yes. Because after all, it is Krsna's desire, turn dust into coin, to turn coin into dust. So we should be always careful. If we remain Krsna conscious, then the coin will never turn into dust. Otherwise it can be turned. So you American, you are now full of coins. Before turning into dust, catch Krsna with the coin. It will never turn into dust. It will remain coin. Hmm? I am very hopeful of the Americans. Because you are so nice devotees, you can keep your country coinful, no dustful. India is giving up Krsna, and therefore they are turning into dust.
Jayatirtha: So much dust.
Tamala Krsna: The whole thing is being done by the mercy of your books, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Well, it is not my book; it is Krsna's book. I am trying my best to present it as it is. That's all. That much you can say my, but there is nothing mine.
Tamala Krsna: The effect of these books is hard to perceive immediately because we can't imagine how... So many millions of books have gone out. In the future they will all fructify as devotees, the people who have read them.
Prabhupada: Yes. When they will read, then they will get. Nowadays in the Sixth Canto, Fourth Chapter, the soul and how the soul is covered, that is being described wonderfully. Srimad-Bhagavatam amalam puranam. Vidvams cakre satvata-samhitam. It is written by the most learned Vyasadeva, vidvams, and satvata-samhitam. How merciful he was. He is still living, Vyasadeva. He is still existing.
anarthopasamam saksad
bhakti-yogam adhoksaje
lokasya ajanatah vidvams
cakre satvata...
[SB 1.7.6]
Do you remember this verse? It is in the First Canto. Anartha. The soul has been embarrassed, the unnecessary things. Just like a man is within the huge garbage. What is his position? If... You have got your garbage car, so within that, (chuckles) if a man is pushed...
Tamala Krsna: Abominable.
Prabhupada: It is like that. Twenty-four elements. Five material elements, three subtle elements, then five working senses and five all knowledge gathering senses -- how many?
Jayatirtha: Eighteen.
Prabhupada: Eighteen? No.
Jayatirtha: So far.
Prabhupada: Twenty-three, I think. Five gross elements, five senses..., five knowledge gathering senses, and five working senses, fifteen,...
Tamala Krsna: Then the objects...
Jayatirtha: Three subtle...
Prabhupada: The mind, ego, and mahat-tattva, eighteen, yes. And then five sense objects, the rupa, rasa, form, taste, like that. Then twenty-three.
Jayatirtha: The aggregate, pradhana.
Prabhupada: Pradhana, and then the soul, twenty-five. Twenty-four and three gunas. Three gunas: sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. Twenty-seven. So twenty-seven layers of garbage. Underneath, the soul is. What he will do? He is a small particle, soul, and he is covered with so many material elements. To come out of it is very very difficult. But if one is engaged in devotional service he can come out immediately. Just like when one is spiritually perfect, he goes immediately to Krsna, penetrating these material coverings of the universe. Immediately. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9], immediately. That is spiritual force.
mam ca vyabhicarini
bhakti-yogena yah sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]
So can you give me a list how much money you have to realize from our devotees who have taken money, loan?
Jayatirtha: Who have taken money in loan? You mean unauthorized loan?
Prabhupada: Not unauthorized, authorized.
Jayatirtha: Oh, how much Book Trust has loaned...
Prabhupada: Unauthorized also? There are?
Jayatirtha: How much Book Trust loans there are. You want to see the list of Book Trust loans?
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Jayatirtha: Yes, we can give you that list.
Prabhupada: There is unauthorized loan also?
Jayatirtha: I thought you were... Sometimes in the past from time to time these things have gone on.
Prabhupada: Past is all right. Have you received any news from Bombay?
Brahmananda: Yes, there's two letter from Gopala Krsna. Palika brought them. Palika has come.
Prabhupada: Oh. So what is the position there?
Brahmananda: Well, I haven't read the letters yet, but she was saying that on the whole Mr. Matri now is diminishing. They have met with his superior in the party, and the superior is very much, he's not happy with Mr. Matri's activities and his reputation, and he says that in the forthcoming election he may not even put him on the election ballot.
Prabhupada: That will be right punishment for him. Then he will understand. That will be more than death. Yes. Politicians, if they are refused political seat, that is more than death. Just like Krsna was advising Arjuna that "You are known as a great hero, and if you don't fight then they will blaspheme you like anything. So that will be more than death. Better die. When they will say nindanti, 'Oh, the Arjuna has become a coward. He could not fight. He will die.' So that blaspheme will be more than death." So by the grace of Krsna it has come to the notice of the...
Brahmananda: The other party members, the party superiors, they are... His reputation is damaging their party.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: His activities are so unscrupulous.
Prabhupada: And what about the N.O.C.? No-Objection Certificate?
Brahmananda: I don't know the details, but Palika said that they are..., the holes have been dug and they're expecting to put the foundation in before the monsoon. And that there was some attempt to stop the some digging. but that has been defeated. When I was there there was question about getting the No-Objection Certificate for the already-existing temple.
Prabhupada: Existing temple?
Brahmananda: Well, the little temple we have there now.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Tamala Krsna: Every year it has to be renewed.
Brahmananda: Yeah. So this year they have by some trick they have made it that the police must give their No-Objection Certificate. Usually that is not required each year.
Prabhupada: They are harassing us in so many ways. Only in Bombay.
Tamala Krsna: That means if we become successful finally, it will be a tremendous success, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Something very big will happen there.
Brahmananda: They've concluded that the opposition is not from the central government but from the local. Because the projects are going on without being hampered in other places in India. It is only in Bombay that we are getting this difficulty.
Prabhupada: In central government that Indira Gandhi is now...
Brahmananda: Her position is now jeopardized.
Tamala Krsna: Really?
Prabhupada: She is convicted. That election was not properly...
Tamala Krsna: Who has convicted her?
Brahmananda: High-court.
Tamala Krsna: How was... I am surprised they could do that. She's practically like a dictator.
Prabhupada: And she has been done in his (her) own city, Allahabad.
Brahmananda: They have lost the election, Congress Party.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, this is a recent new election.
Brahmananda: Yes, in Gujarat.
Prabhupada: Now our next attempt will be Kuruksetra, where Krsna personally spoke Bhagavad-gita. Recently I have been in Kuruksetra. You were... Yes. So I have decided to do something there. Yes. Because Krsna personally spoke there. Our two movements -- we are preaching Krsna consciousness on the basis of Bhagavad-gita and we are holding Ratha-yatra -- all these two incidences took place at Kuruksetra. Kuruksetra is so important. Krsna, Balarama, and His sister, on some occasion of lunar eclipse, they came from Dvaraka in a chariot, ratha, two brothers and sister, and that is the occasion of Ratha-yatra. And the Vrndavana inhabitants, especially Radharani, they came from Vrndavana to see Krsna after long time. And she pleaded that "Krsna, You are the same Krsna, I am the same Radharani..." (Prabhupada is coughing) Is there any water? No. "But this place is not the proper place. Let Us go to Vrndavana." That is Mahaprabhu's feeling.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. You've expressed that in Madhya-lila.
Prabhupada: That Mahaprabhu's feeling of Krsna is like that. Therefore He took part in the Ratha-yatra and invited Krsna, "Come to Vrndavana." So these two important things took place in the Kuruksetra. So we must have a very big temple there, and a varnasrama college. This is my desire. Krsna's direct instruction, Bhagavad-gita. It should be a historical... It is historical. People should come here as the most important historical place. And Gita is well known all over the world. And Gita begins with the word dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg. 1.1]. So Kuruksetra, in that sense very important.
Brahmananda: That was one of the first things you told us when you came, that Kuruksetra is an actual place. There's a railway station. People can go there.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: We had never known that. We thought it was something mythological or...
Jayatirtha: Allegorical.
Prabhupada: That is not. These political leaders, they have made it. (reading sign:) Carpeteria. They manufacture carpet? We are already on the Venice road? No?
Jayatirtha: Yes. This is Venice Boulevard.
Prabhupada: You have got my passbook?
Jayatirtha: From the Liberty Bank?
Prabhupada: Not Liberty. Bank of America?
Jayatirtha: Passbook.
Prabhupada: Investment passbook?
Jayatirtha: Oh, from that savings account.
Prabhupada: I sent it to be made..., for making it up to date.
Jayatirtha: You mailed it?
Prabhupada: No, I gave to Gurukrpa and he sent through somebody.
Jayatirtha: He did not give it to me. Maybe he gave it to Ramesvara. I'll check with him. I think he must have forgotten.
Prabhupada: So the engineering block is now occupied?
Jayatirtha: Oh, yes. As we go by it, you can see the big sign is there, "Bhaktivedanta Book Trust." It's over here to the left.
Prabhupada: Oh. (laughs) So that Bhaktivedanta go-down has come here? No.
Jayatirtha: No, go-down is still there. This building is not large enough for that.
Tamala Krsna: You have not seen this building yet, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Oh, here is for lease. (Tamala Krsna and Jayatirtha discuss in background about leasing one of the buildings for a restaurant) [break]
(in Prabhupada's room:)
Prabhupada: But when they live, the tendency is there. Naturally I want to love somebody. It is not unnatural. When that love is reposed to Krsna, that is perfect. The Mayavadis, they are frustrated; therefore they want to make this love into zero. They cannot understand Krsna's love with gopis. They think it is another edition of this material... Oh, how are you, Hayagriva prabhu? How are you? You look better. You are looking better, brighter than when I saw you in New Vrindaban last. You have got so much talents for serving Krsna. Everyone has got. That I am speaking. We have to utilize it. From the very beginning I met you, I instructed to edit. That was the starting of our Back to Godhead. He is good typist also. You know that? (laughter) I think he is the best of all of our men. He can type very swiftly and correctly. I think in our group Hayagriva prabhu and Satsvarupa Maharaja are very good typist. And Jayadvaita I think you are also, no?
Jayadvaita: Yes.
Prabhupada: You are good typist? (laughter) So why you have not published Bali-mardana's article?
Jayadvaita: Bali-mardana's article.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayadvaita: We were waiting. We weren't sure if it was appropriate to publish it.
Prabhupada: He thought disappointed. He has published. He has written very nicely.
Jayadvaita: He has written nicely?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayadvaita: We can publish it?
Prabhupada: So we should... Yes, here is the... What is that?
Brahmananda: "Illusion and reality," two essays...
Prabhupada: He has presented very nicely. So we should encourage our men.
Jayadvaita: Publish it.
Prabhupada: Yes. And our men, all our men should write. Otherwise how we shall know that he has understood the philosophy? Writing means sravanam kirtanam. Sravanam means hearing from the authority and again repeat it. This is our business, sravanam kirtanam visnoh [SB 7.5.23], about Visnu, not for any politician or any other man. Sravanam kirtanam visnoh, about Krsna or Visnu. So that is success. Hear and repeat, hear and repeat. You haven't got to manufacture. Any one of us, simply if you reproduce the purport which I have given in the Bhagavata, you become a good speaker. What I am doing? I am the same thing, writing the same thing so that modern man can understand. Otherwise we are repeating the same thing. They are repeating also same thing, sense gratification. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. But because that is material, they are not getting happiness. But the spiritual thing, we are chanting the same Hare Krsna, simply repeating, but we are getting transcendental bliss. What we are doing? Same "Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna." So process is the same, the subject matter is different. So why you are behind publication? Now all the big men are here. Why our books are behind? Why? Here the editors are there. I don't think there is any scarcity.
Ramesvara: Now there is no scarcity.
Prabhupada: Huh? You have formerly... [break]
Ramesvara: If we want to have the books printed very quickly, they have to be printed in America, the new books.
Prabhupada: And the reprint there.
Ramesvara: Yes, we can do that.
Prabhupada: So why not give them some book also for ordinary?
Ramesvara: We are giving them a lot of business this year in Japan.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. We must deal with them very nicely. They have helped in the beginning. Yes. I gave them only $5,000 start, and I gave the order for 52,000, but they supplied. They got money. They were confident that we shall not cheat them. So our relation is very nice. So utilize it. [break] ...girl was, that the Japanese, they like our publication.
Ramesvara: Girl. Mula-prakrti.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Ramesvara: That girl that was seeing you in Hawaii, Mula-prakrti.
Prabhupada: Yes. She was very enthusiastic. Mula-prakrti? Where is Yadubara prabhu? Where is?
Jayatirtha: He's right here.
Prabhupada: Oh. You are feeling now nice?
Yadubara: Yes. I'm much improved.
Prabhupada: That's nice. So everyone feeling nice?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupada: You are also feeling nice?
Visakha: Now I am all right.
Ramesvara: The devotees at the Press will not feel nice until all your books are published.
Prabhupada: Hm. That's nice.
Jayatirtha: They are working now night shifts also.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Ramesvara: Twenty-four hours.
Jayatirtha: Twenty-four hours on the composers so that we can take full advantage of the machines.
Prabhupada: And Hayagriva prabhu, how many papers you are finishing? You can finish fifty papers at least.
Hayagriva: I am trying. One hour a tape.
Radha-vallabha: Hayagriva finished editing Volume Six of Madhya-lila today.
Prabhupada: Oh, Volume Six, Caitanya-caritamrta?
Radha-vallabha: Yes. Out of nine volumes, Hayagriva has finished six of Madhya-lila.
Prabhupada: Altogether there will be nine volumes?
Ramesvara: Of Madhya-lila.
Jayatirtha: Madhya-lila, all nine volumes.
Radha-vallabha: And four volumes Antya-lila.
Jayatirtha: Altogether sixteen volumes.
Prabhupada: Where is our Gargamuni?
Bhavananda: He is in the east. Buffalo.
Prabhupada: Preaching?
Bhavananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: So, you are with him, Sudama?
Sudama: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Preaching is going on nice?
Sudama: Yes.
Jayatirtha: Hayagriva told me that the whole Caitanya-caritamrta, the editing, will be finished by the end of August.
Prabhupada: They are coming also, Nitai...?
Jayatirtha: Nitai and Jagannatha are going to be coming...
Ramesvara: In about three days.
Jayatirtha: By the end of July they'll be... So it is going very fast now.
Prabhupada: Very good. Turnam yateta. We should try very fast before the next death comes. And death will come. So we shall prepare in such a way that before the next death comes, our, we finish our Krsna consciousness business and go back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. This is perfection. Because if we wait for another birth, maybe we may not get. Even Bharata Maharaja, he also slipped. He became a deer. So we should always be vigilant that "We have got this opportunity, human form of life. Let us utilize it to the fullest extent and be fit for going back to home, back to Godhead." That is intelligence. Not that "All right, I shall get again chance next birth." That is not very good policy. Turnam. Turnam means very hastily finish. Turnam yateta anumrtyum pated yavat. (sound of men practicing karate outside has pervaded background of entire room conversation) These people are wasting time, as if they will live forever. (chuckles) What is the use of this kar...?
Jayatirtha: Karate.
Prabhupada: Karate. It is very popular in Mexico.
Jayatirtha: Everywhere.
Prabhupada: But will that method save from death? When the death will come, will the sound "Go!" (laughter) will save them? This is foolishness. Instead of chanting Hare Krsna, they are resounding some sound, thinking that the sound will save him. This is called foolishness, mudha. (karate men begin shouting very loudly) Pisaci paile jane mati-cchanna haya. And if you ask them that "Why you are sounding so loudly? Chant Hare Krsna," they will laugh. (chuckles)
Visnujana: Srila Prabhupada, what did Bhaktivinoda Thakura mean when he said, "I am going, my work unfinished"?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Visnujana: When Bhaktivinoda Thakura stated that he was leaving this planet with his work unfinished.
Prabhupada: Then let us finish. We are descendant of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. So he kept unfinished so that we shall get the chance to finish it. That is his mercy. He could have finished immediately. He is Vaisnava, he is all-powerful. But he gave us chance that "You foolish people, you all also work." That is his mercy. So we should pray to Bhaktivinoda Thakura that "We are your grandchildren, great-grandchildren, so we have got some right to beg some mercy from you. The grandchildren get some indulgence from the grandfather. So I pray like that." It is Bhaktivinoda Thakura's mercy. A Vaisnava can... Krsna doesn't require anyone's help. Still, He is asking, "Surrender to Me." He doesn't require anyone's surrender. But it is for him good, one who surrenders. Not Krsna is in need of anyone's service. He is complete. But He comes as if He is in helpless condition and asking for us to surrender. So that is for his good. One who is surrendered, he'll get the result. Krsna is self-sufficient. Similarly, Bhaktivinoda Thakura is self-sufficient. But if he said that "I (am) keeping unfinished," that means he gave us the chance, the opportunity. So we should always pray to Bhaktivinoda Thakura to be merciful upon us so that we can execute his unfinished task. That should be our... And never we should think that "What Bhaktivinoda Thakura could not finish, I have finished." Don't think like that. It is not like that. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says in the Caitanya-caritamrta, eka ki amara nahi paya. (pause) You have not given index. That I have instructed. You should now prepare index.
Jayadvaita: That is being done for all the volumes.
Prabhupada: All the volumes must have index.
Radha-vallabha: All the Caitanya-caritamrta volumes have indexes.
Jayadvaita: Bengali index.
Prabhupada: This is the last one.
Ramesvara: Bengali and Sanskrit verses, and then general index.
Prabhupada: Is there any ekaki amara nahi paya mora? Eka ki?
Visnujana: Eke eke milila prabhu saba bhakta-gana.
Prabhupada: No, no, not that. [break] ...observing ekadasi today?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupada: So... (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Arrival Conversation -- Los Angeles, June 20, 1975
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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