Prabhupada: Yes. [break] It is
there?Pradyumna: Yes.
sat-sangan mukta-duhsango
hatum notsahate budhah
kirtyamanam yaso yasya
sakrd akarnya rocanam
Prabhupada: Where it is quoted from?
Pradyumna: Quoted from Bhagavatam, Srimad Bhagavatam, 1.10.11.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pradyumna: First Canto, Tenth Chapter, Eleventh Verse.
Prabhupada: Make note there.
Pradyumna: Translation?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed from bad materialistic association can never avoid hearing the glories of the Lord even though they have heard them only once."
Prabhupada: Hm. So this will protect you from the influence of maya. Read that again.
Pradyumna: Sanskrit or translation.
Prabhupada: Translation.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed..."
Prabhupada: "In association with pure devotees." So if you are karmis, then where is the..., What is the value of this association? Sat-sanga. Sat-sanga means assembly, discussion. Bodhayantah parasparam, tusyanti ca ramanti ca. If you are not interested in association, discussion, then you are finished. So... karmis, they are fools and rascals. When you have got this center, it is not that you should be engaged from morning till you go to bed for sense gratification. That is not life. That is karmi's life. You have no time for sat-sanga, for association. You cannot make any progress by this sort of karmi's life. We have to work for organization, but not that whole day and night engaged and no sat-sanga. That is a misguided policy, and it will spoil the whole structure. In Los Angeles, they regularly assemble during arati and class. If this regulative principle is lost, then you are karmis. They must come back by six o'clock, suspending all other duties, and assemble by seven o'clock. Joint mess program is not good. "You bring some money, you bring some money and spend us jointly for eating, sleeping." That is called joint mess. You know the joint mess? This word? What is that, meaning?
Brahmananda: Well, it means... I thought it had something to do with civil servants, where they all live in a dormitory and eat in a large hall.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Brahmananda: And they all contribute...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: ...part of their salary.
Prabhupada: So if you make that association, that will not help you. Joint mess, dormitory. Or joint family. Just like in India. There are five brothers. They're earning. Father and mother is the leader. They're handing over the money, and the father, mother managing. That is Indian system, a joint family. So joint family or joint mess, the same thing. So if you make like that, a center, then it is no good. You must get spiritual strength. Karmi strength will not help you. What they are doing in Babar(?) Road, these girls?
Guru dasa: They're preparing some srngara for Deity.
Prabhupada: Why not here? Why go to Babar Road, spend twenty rupees?
Guru dasa: According to them, that sometimes they have to go in the center of town.
Prabhupada: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay. But all this money have been taken from U.S.A. I asked Bali Mardana, I asked Karandhara. They paid me for this Bombay affair, sixteen, eighteen lakhs. [break] ...and breathing also does not stop. It goes very slow. Therefore he cannot be immortal. And Bhagavad-gita proposes, that is wonderful thing, if you can stop death. And whole spiritual life means how to stop death. That is Bhagavata's instruction, "Don't accept guru, don't accept father, don't accept, or don't be father, don't be mother, don't be, if you cannot stop death." Either you don't accept, or don't become. Just like they want guru. So don't accept a guru who cannot stop your death. And from guru's side, it is advised, "Don't become guru if you cannot stop the death of your disciple." This is Bhagavatam's statement. So our Krsna consciousness movement is to stop death, live eternally with Krsna, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our movement. So our guru gives us this opportunity, no more death. Tyaktva... After leaving this body, you don't accept any more material body. And if you don't accept material body, then there is no death. As soon as your spiritual, you remain in spiritual body, there is no death. There is no birth also. Death is concomitant where birth is there. If the death is stopped, then there is no birth. And if there is no birth, there is no disease, there is no old age. This is the process. So birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped only by Krsna consciousness. So if you don't like to be Krsna conscious then what is the use of becoming your disciple, and if the guru, if he cannot stop your death, birth and death, then what is your becoming guru? So 'mrtatvaya kalpate. Yam hi na vyathayanty ete purusam purusarsabha. Find out this verse. Yam hi na vyathayanty ete.
Srutakirti: Y-a-m?
Prabhupada: Yeah, y-a-m. Yam hi... Get this light on. [break] ...there is birth and death and old age and... That is liberation. That is siddhi. That is perfection. These rascals are making plans, material plans. Jawaharlal Nehru made plan of this New Delhi. But he is kicked out. "Go out!" And now he has become a dog in Switzerland.
Srutakirti: In Sweden.
Prabhupada: In Sweden.
Syamasundara: What?
Srutakirti: He's one of two dogs in Sweden.
Prabhupada: Yes. Sridhara Maharaja told me. Some astrologer has...
Brahmananda: He's taken his birth there.
Syamasundara: Ah.
Prabhupada: So they, these so-called leaders are so fools that they... Therefore they don't believe in next life. Because that is very horrible for them. But the next life is there. Just like we, we, we have our next life. We had our previous life, then now another life, another life. So this simple thing they cannot understand. Nature is controlling this, next life, next life. Otherwise why so many varieties of life? So they have no brain. They are simply making plan for the fifty years duration of life. That's all. And even from practical point of view, suppose you are constructing a very nice house, and if you know that next day you'll be kicked out, you'll die, will you do that? But it is a fact. Next day or two days after, you'll die. That's a fact. So first of all, make arrangement that you'll not die, you'll be able to live here. That is their foolishness.
Syamasundara: Sometimes they take refuge in the idea that: "My family will live on," or "My species..." or "my..."
Prabhupada: That's...
Syamasundara: "...children..."
Prabhupada: ...all right. The family will live on not forever. They'll live also, say, for few days. Just we go sometimes in... Just like in England, the castles are there, very old castle, thousand years, two thousand... Even this Westminster Abbey and palace, but which king has lived for there permanently? And now, if you know more, if the king has, by his work, become something else. Not necessarily he'll become a king in that house. He may become a dog there. This science they do not know. And they are proud of their education, culture. Suppose we are constructing the Vrndavana temple or Bombay temple. It is also certain we shall not live, but our attempt to construct that temple will be recorded in Krsna.
Syamasundara: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. "Because he has spent his energy for My service." That will be our gain. Others, they, whatever they are working... Ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah. Find out this verse. Ko va. Ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah. This is in Bhagavata.
Devotee: Bhagavata.
Prabhupada: Yes.
tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer
bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim
ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah
[SB 1.5.17]
Tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam hareh. Just like many of our disciples, as a matter of civilized man they should have remained at home, obedient to the parents, get married and live peacefully with father and mother. Of course, European, American boys, they do not do that. But it is expected that should be like that. Just like yourself. You should have lived with your father. He also. But you did not do this. So take it for granted, out of sentiment, you took to Krsna consciousness. Tyaktva sva-dharmam. To live family life, peaceful life, obedient life to the fathers and mothers, this is called sva-dharma. So one gives up this sva-dharma, tyaktva sva-dharmam, and takes to Krsna consciousness gone... Not many, a few. So Bhagavata says, yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim: "What is the wrong there?" Even if he has fallen down, half-way, still there is no wrong. He has gained something. That much service which he has already given to Krsna, that is recorded. That is recorded. That is to his credit: "So this living entity has given service." But other men, he's very honestly living as a good citizen, as a good family member and good brahmana, good ksatriya... So ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah. He's sticking to his own principle of life, but he's not a Krsna conscious devotee. Then what is his gain? He'll simply take the fruits of his material activities and he'll have to accept another body according to that. But here, as it is assured in Bhagavad-gita that sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrasto 'bhijayate [Bg. 6.41], this man, who took by sentiment Krsna consciousness, but could not follow it to the end; by some way or other, he has fallen but he'll be given chance to take birth as a human being, guaranteed, in rich family, or in nice devotee family, yogi family or brahmana family. So he'll be given chance. But that man will take only the reaction of his activities. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. So if he has acted like cats and dogs, he'll get the cats and dogs. But here it is guaranteed, here it is guaranteed that he's going to get another human body and very nice family.
Syamasundara: Does that guarantee that he'll become a devotee again?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because he had already practiced. So if he, if he remembers, if he's intelligent, that "I've got this nice position, according to sastra, because I had some good devotional activities in my past life. Now let me finish. I'll not fall down. I have no economic problem. I have got so much facilities. So let me advance in Krsna consciousness." If he gets this... He'll get that sense.
Syamasundara: He automatically gets that standard.
Prabhupada: Yes. Hm.
Syamasundara: So he must come back to that point again, starting there.
Prabhupada: Just like you have given. Your children are given the good chance.
Syamasundara: Ah yeah.
Prabhupada: The Sarasvati's given chance. Now he's, from very childhood, she's chanting Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare...
Syamasundara: yes.
Prabhupada: He's criticizing: "Malati, this old man is smoking." He's getting the samskara from the childhood, as we got it from good father. Yes. So here is a chance. And that will not... It is not childish, Sarasvati's chanting Hare Krsna. In London, she would finish sixteen rounds?
Syamasundara: Six.
Prabhupada: Six. She was... Just see. She has got determination.
Syamasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupada: And all the children. So that will not go in vain.
Syamasundara: No.
Prabhupada: Never go in vain. This is her... She had executed devotional service in her past life. Therefore from the very beginning of her life, she's in association of Krsna consciousness, very beginning. This is the chance. Now it is the duty of the father and mother, and when she grows up it is her duty to finish this business, go to back to home. This is chance. So where is the loss? Even she failed last life, then where is the loss? She's getting another chance, whereas the ordinary karmis, they'll not get that chance. That is explained. Read it.
Srutakirti: One who has forsaken his material occupation to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything.
Prabhupada: That is the translation. Purport?
Srutakirti: "Purport: As far as the duties of mankind are concerned. There are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound, not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Maharaja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly Citraketu also fell down due to his offense..."
Prabhupada: Therefore we forbid to take to the karmi's life. Because at the time of death, if he remains a karmi, then he'll have to take birth as a karmi. That is the risk. So this regulated life, holding class, chanting, that will not make us fall down. That is essential. It is essential, regulate, to follow the regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds, holding class. You can do anything, but this will keep us alive to the Krsna consciousness platform. If you neglect that, then that is very risky. Even if you get next life birth in a rich man's family, that is not guarantee. Because generally, rich man's sons, they go astray. They get money for nothing and they want to squander it. And material world, if you have got money, so many bad associates will come and help you to squander your money and spoil your life. Because you have got money, then so many friends will come. As soon as you have no money, nobody will come. Even your wife, children will not come. Therefore harisye tad dhanam sanaih. Krsna, first of all, takes away the money, makes him poor so that everyone will neglect him, and because he's Krsna conscious, he'll take Krsna, "Sir, I have no other alternative. Please give me protection." That is also another Krsna's policy, special favor, that "This man wanted Me. Now he's going astray. All right. That's all right. Take everything of his..."
Syamasundara: Like that man Patrick. Three businesses failed.
Prabhupada: Yes. That was my case also. Since my Guru Maharaja ordered me that "You do this." But I thought that "Let me become first of all rich man. Then I shall do," so He... Every business was...
Syamasundara: Maybe that is my case also.
Prabhupada: That is special favor. In the beginning I was thinking, "Now my godbrothers, they have taken sannyasa. They are begging from door to door. Why shall I beg? Let me earn money and start Krsna consciousness." But that never happened. So I had to... I was obliged to take the dress of my godbrothers and preach, instead of earning money. Yes. Some astrologer told me that I should have been a man like a Birla. And I got all those chances in the chemical line, to become... Now I am bigger than Birla. That's all right. But even in business field, there were signs that in money things... I got so many good chances. But everything... Dr. Karttika Candra Bose he appreciated my activities, "Very intelligent boy." He certified to my father-in-law. This is the way of becoming rich man.
Syamasundara: What happened?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Syamasundara: Why didn't...
Prabhupada: Something happened, and everything was finished. That is Krsna's grace. Just like something has happened wonderful. So that is also Krsna's grace.
Syamasundara: People stopped purchasing...?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Syamasundara: People stopped purchasing...?
Prabhupada: No. Just like Dr. Bose's laboratory. So Dr. Bose's laboratory, I was manager. Then I took his agency, very good terms. I was earning money like anything. But the next manager, he became envious. He began to poison Dr. Bose, to cut off our relationship. So it happened. Then, when I was Dr. Bose's agent, I become so much famous that Bengal Chemical, the biggest chemical factory, he, they wanted to give me the agency. If I would have taken that agency, I would have been the richest man in the chemical world. You see. But they made some condition. So I did not accept it. I wanted in my condition. That is the very little... But I was puffed-up, that "I am such a big... And this man is flattering. So I must get my condition fulfilled." So I did not accept it. The Smith Stanstreet gave me agency. Because in my work, in Dr. Bose's laboratory, I did it very creditably. So every other manufacturers, they became attracted to me, how to get me. The Smith Stanstreet Company, Bikepala(?) Company, Bose's, Bengal Chemical Company, they all wanted me. And I thought, "Oh, everyone wants me." So, so I refused. And later on there was a clique between Dr. Bose and me. So I lost everything. Then I started my own laboratory. Somehow or other, there was something, and...
Syamasundara: Oh, I see.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: In Bombay, you were having your own business then?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: Manufacturing?
Prabhupada: Yes. No, that is small manufacturing. So I got very, very good chance. But Krsna did not allow it. He wanted me to come to this point. That is my practical experience. And now I'm seeing that it is Krsna's so much favor. You see? Yasyaham, anugrhnami... It is, it is, actually it is His grace. "What he'll do by becoming Birla, rich man like Birla?" That was Krsna's plan. "Come here. Do this work." You see. My Guru Maharaja ordered. Krsna wanted. I was resisting Him. That's all. I was actually very expert businessman in chemical line. I did it very creditably in Bose's laboratory as manager and my own business. And everyone knows... Even in manufacturing also.
Syamasundara: Yeah, with that same experience now you've organized a world-wide society...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: And that's a big business.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: Difficult work.
Brahmananda: Just like before coming to India, in Japan, with simply five thousand dollars, you took fifty thousand dollars worth of merchandise.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: And you brought it, had it sent...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: And then everything...
Syamasundara: Life members...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: And then you devised the program for distributing them.
Prabhupada: Yes, practically India's, our, whatever we have got, it is starting with that five thousand dollars.
Syamasundara: Five thousand dollars.
Brahmananda: But it's like you were investing, taking goods on credit, and...
Prabhupada: Yes. And this membership became successful.
Brahmananda: Then you devised the method for distribution.
Prabhupada: This membership.
Syamasundara: Even the way you went to America in the beginning. You couldn't take money.
Prabhupada: No.
Syamasundara: So you had some books...
Prabhupada: Some books. Yes.
Syamasundara: Publish...
Prabhupada: That intelligence gives me, Krsna, "You do this." Buddhi-yogam dadami tam. Yes. And in my materialistic life, He was taking away my intelligence. Just like this Bose, Bengal Chemical agency, I should have accepted immediately. Such a big concern. Simply by sitting, I would have brought ten thousand rupees per month in those days. But there was no good intelligence. I thought, "No, I cannot accept your terms. You must accept..." Because I was at that time young man, puffed-up, no brain, no sober brain. They were so attracted with me. They would have given later on all facilities, but I did not accept. Similarly, Smith Stanstreet, they were also very good company.
Syamasundara: Smith's...?
Prabhupada: Smith Stanstreet, an English company. They gave me an agency. So some of my enemy... He was my, he was my employer, but he gave information that I am also manufacturing now, drug and chemical works. So they informed them that "He's pushing his own goods, not your goods." They... He wanted that agency. Yes. In this way, because as soon as you come in the... Even in the spiritual field, my godbrothers are envious. You see? So as soon as you become successful, there will be many enemies. That is natural. That is the sign of success. In your business, if there are many enemies, competitor, that means you are successful. So anyway, Krsna has brought me to the right path. So I may not fall down. That's all. (laughter) When I was reading this verse, that yasyaham anugrhnami harisye tad dhanam sanaih [SB 10.88.8], Krsna said that "When I show somebody My special favor, I take away all his money," I became shuddered, "So Krsna will take my all money? If He's..." And actually that happened. He took my all money, all family, all friends and everything. (laughs) And He asked me, "Go to America. You'll get many money, much money, many friends. You go ahead, Come here." Yes. That was His intention. And I was sticking to limited money, limited friends, limited society. This is special favor.
Brahmananda: So in Bombay you mentioned that Lilavati Munshi... There was one house...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: ...and you were trying to get that house...
Prabhupada: Yes, and she took away.
Brahmananda: ...and you were prevented.
Prabhupada: She took away. Because I was trying to organize a League of Devotees from that house, and Krsna wanted, "What is this nonsense? You are stick here, in Jhansi? You come here, in open field." That was Krsna's intent. But I thought that "Even Krsna took away this?" This Lilavati Munshi...
Syamasundara: Now her institution is...
Prabhupada: But my intention was to start this movement.
Syamasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupada: I was simply planning in different way. Therefore Krsna's favor. I never deviated from this plan. Since I heard it from my Guru Maharaja, I've simply planning how to do it successfully. But I thought at that time, that "I'll be able to do it if I get some money. Let me do some business for the time." That I was thinking. But Krsna said, "Even if you are pauper, you try; you'll get everything." But I thought, "Without money, how this can be done?" That was difference of opinion with Krsna, argument. And I was dreaming also, Guru Maharaja, asking me, "Come on." So I was going. So I was, "Oh, I have to go? I have to take sannyasa?"
Syamasundara: You, you dreaming?
Prabhupada: Yes. Guru Maharaja said, "Come, come with me." I was going. But that... Many things happened before this. Yes. And at last it became, in America.
Syamasundara: Did you tell everyone you were leaving, or you simply disappeared?
Prabhupada: No, I never said. Oh, why shall I? I lost all friends, money, everything.
Guru dasa: I met one gentleman from Allahabad... (Apparently someone comes in)
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Guru dasa: Oh.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Get this light. [break] ...to this point, and you have joined. Do it nicely. It is the greatest movement for making the whole human civilization happy. Take it seriously. Don't...
Tejas: Srila Prabhupada, this is Mister S. Domi(?) Singh, he's a... (end)
sat-sangan mukta-duhsango
hatum notsahate budhah
kirtyamanam yaso yasya
sakrd akarnya rocanam
Prabhupada: Where it is quoted from?
Pradyumna: Quoted from Bhagavatam, Srimad Bhagavatam, 1.10.11.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pradyumna: First Canto, Tenth Chapter, Eleventh Verse.
Prabhupada: Make note there.
Pradyumna: Translation?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed from bad materialistic association can never avoid hearing the glories of the Lord even though they have heard them only once."
Prabhupada: Hm. So this will protect you from the influence of maya. Read that again.
Pradyumna: Sanskrit or translation.
Prabhupada: Translation.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed..."
Prabhupada: "In association with pure devotees." So if you are karmis, then where is the..., What is the value of this association? Sat-sanga. Sat-sanga means assembly, discussion. Bodhayantah parasparam, tusyanti ca ramanti ca. If you are not interested in association, discussion, then you are finished. So... karmis, they are fools and rascals. When you have got this center, it is not that you should be engaged from morning till you go to bed for sense gratification. That is not life. That is karmi's life. You have no time for sat-sanga, for association. You cannot make any progress by this sort of karmi's life. We have to work for organization, but not that whole day and night engaged and no sat-sanga. That is a misguided policy, and it will spoil the whole structure. In Los Angeles, they regularly assemble during arati and class. If this regulative principle is lost, then you are karmis. They must come back by six o'clock, suspending all other duties, and assemble by seven o'clock. Joint mess program is not good. "You bring some money, you bring some money and spend us jointly for eating, sleeping." That is called joint mess. You know the joint mess? This word? What is that, meaning?
Brahmananda: Well, it means... I thought it had something to do with civil servants, where they all live in a dormitory and eat in a large hall.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Brahmananda: And they all contribute...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: ...part of their salary.
Prabhupada: So if you make that association, that will not help you. Joint mess, dormitory. Or joint family. Just like in India. There are five brothers. They're earning. Father and mother is the leader. They're handing over the money, and the father, mother managing. That is Indian system, a joint family. So joint family or joint mess, the same thing. So if you make like that, a center, then it is no good. You must get spiritual strength. Karmi strength will not help you. What they are doing in Babar(?) Road, these girls?
Guru dasa: They're preparing some srngara for Deity.
Prabhupada: Why not here? Why go to Babar Road, spend twenty rupees?
Guru dasa: According to them, that sometimes they have to go in the center of town.
Prabhupada: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay. But all this money have been taken from U.S.A. I asked Bali Mardana, I asked Karandhara. They paid me for this Bombay affair, sixteen, eighteen lakhs. [break] ...and breathing also does not stop. It goes very slow. Therefore he cannot be immortal. And Bhagavad-gita proposes, that is wonderful thing, if you can stop death. And whole spiritual life means how to stop death. That is Bhagavata's instruction, "Don't accept guru, don't accept father, don't accept, or don't be father, don't be mother, don't be, if you cannot stop death." Either you don't accept, or don't become. Just like they want guru. So don't accept a guru who cannot stop your death. And from guru's side, it is advised, "Don't become guru if you cannot stop the death of your disciple." This is Bhagavatam's statement. So our Krsna consciousness movement is to stop death, live eternally with Krsna, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our movement. So our guru gives us this opportunity, no more death. Tyaktva... After leaving this body, you don't accept any more material body. And if you don't accept material body, then there is no death. As soon as your spiritual, you remain in spiritual body, there is no death. There is no birth also. Death is concomitant where birth is there. If the death is stopped, then there is no birth. And if there is no birth, there is no disease, there is no old age. This is the process. So birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped only by Krsna consciousness. So if you don't like to be Krsna conscious then what is the use of becoming your disciple, and if the guru, if he cannot stop your death, birth and death, then what is your becoming guru? So 'mrtatvaya kalpate. Yam hi na vyathayanty ete purusam purusarsabha. Find out this verse. Yam hi na vyathayanty ete.
Srutakirti: Y-a-m?
Prabhupada: Yeah, y-a-m. Yam hi... Get this light on. [break] ...there is birth and death and old age and... That is liberation. That is siddhi. That is perfection. These rascals are making plans, material plans. Jawaharlal Nehru made plan of this New Delhi. But he is kicked out. "Go out!" And now he has become a dog in Switzerland.
Srutakirti: In Sweden.
Prabhupada: In Sweden.
Syamasundara: What?
Srutakirti: He's one of two dogs in Sweden.
Prabhupada: Yes. Sridhara Maharaja told me. Some astrologer has...
Brahmananda: He's taken his birth there.
Syamasundara: Ah.
Prabhupada: So they, these so-called leaders are so fools that they... Therefore they don't believe in next life. Because that is very horrible for them. But the next life is there. Just like we, we, we have our next life. We had our previous life, then now another life, another life. So this simple thing they cannot understand. Nature is controlling this, next life, next life. Otherwise why so many varieties of life? So they have no brain. They are simply making plan for the fifty years duration of life. That's all. And even from practical point of view, suppose you are constructing a very nice house, and if you know that next day you'll be kicked out, you'll die, will you do that? But it is a fact. Next day or two days after, you'll die. That's a fact. So first of all, make arrangement that you'll not die, you'll be able to live here. That is their foolishness.
Syamasundara: Sometimes they take refuge in the idea that: "My family will live on," or "My species..." or "my..."
Prabhupada: That's...
Syamasundara: "...children..."
Prabhupada: ...all right. The family will live on not forever. They'll live also, say, for few days. Just we go sometimes in... Just like in England, the castles are there, very old castle, thousand years, two thousand... Even this Westminster Abbey and palace, but which king has lived for there permanently? And now, if you know more, if the king has, by his work, become something else. Not necessarily he'll become a king in that house. He may become a dog there. This science they do not know. And they are proud of their education, culture. Suppose we are constructing the Vrndavana temple or Bombay temple. It is also certain we shall not live, but our attempt to construct that temple will be recorded in Krsna.
Syamasundara: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. "Because he has spent his energy for My service." That will be our gain. Others, they, whatever they are working... Ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah. Find out this verse. Ko va. Ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah. This is in Bhagavata.
Devotee: Bhagavata.
Prabhupada: Yes.
tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer
bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim
ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah
[SB 1.5.17]
Tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam hareh. Just like many of our disciples, as a matter of civilized man they should have remained at home, obedient to the parents, get married and live peacefully with father and mother. Of course, European, American boys, they do not do that. But it is expected that should be like that. Just like yourself. You should have lived with your father. He also. But you did not do this. So take it for granted, out of sentiment, you took to Krsna consciousness. Tyaktva sva-dharmam. To live family life, peaceful life, obedient life to the fathers and mothers, this is called sva-dharma. So one gives up this sva-dharma, tyaktva sva-dharmam, and takes to Krsna consciousness gone... Not many, a few. So Bhagavata says, yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim: "What is the wrong there?" Even if he has fallen down, half-way, still there is no wrong. He has gained something. That much service which he has already given to Krsna, that is recorded. That is recorded. That is to his credit: "So this living entity has given service." But other men, he's very honestly living as a good citizen, as a good family member and good brahmana, good ksatriya... So ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah. He's sticking to his own principle of life, but he's not a Krsna conscious devotee. Then what is his gain? He'll simply take the fruits of his material activities and he'll have to accept another body according to that. But here, as it is assured in Bhagavad-gita that sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrasto 'bhijayate [Bg. 6.41], this man, who took by sentiment Krsna consciousness, but could not follow it to the end; by some way or other, he has fallen but he'll be given chance to take birth as a human being, guaranteed, in rich family, or in nice devotee family, yogi family or brahmana family. So he'll be given chance. But that man will take only the reaction of his activities. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. So if he has acted like cats and dogs, he'll get the cats and dogs. But here it is guaranteed, here it is guaranteed that he's going to get another human body and very nice family.
Syamasundara: Does that guarantee that he'll become a devotee again?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because he had already practiced. So if he, if he remembers, if he's intelligent, that "I've got this nice position, according to sastra, because I had some good devotional activities in my past life. Now let me finish. I'll not fall down. I have no economic problem. I have got so much facilities. So let me advance in Krsna consciousness." If he gets this... He'll get that sense.
Syamasundara: He automatically gets that standard.
Prabhupada: Yes. Hm.
Syamasundara: So he must come back to that point again, starting there.
Prabhupada: Just like you have given. Your children are given the good chance.
Syamasundara: Ah yeah.
Prabhupada: The Sarasvati's given chance. Now he's, from very childhood, she's chanting Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare...
Syamasundara: yes.
Prabhupada: He's criticizing: "Malati, this old man is smoking." He's getting the samskara from the childhood, as we got it from good father. Yes. So here is a chance. And that will not... It is not childish, Sarasvati's chanting Hare Krsna. In London, she would finish sixteen rounds?
Syamasundara: Six.
Prabhupada: Six. She was... Just see. She has got determination.
Syamasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupada: And all the children. So that will not go in vain.
Syamasundara: No.
Prabhupada: Never go in vain. This is her... She had executed devotional service in her past life. Therefore from the very beginning of her life, she's in association of Krsna consciousness, very beginning. This is the chance. Now it is the duty of the father and mother, and when she grows up it is her duty to finish this business, go to back to home. This is chance. So where is the loss? Even she failed last life, then where is the loss? She's getting another chance, whereas the ordinary karmis, they'll not get that chance. That is explained. Read it.
Srutakirti: One who has forsaken his material occupation to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything.
Prabhupada: That is the translation. Purport?
Srutakirti: "Purport: As far as the duties of mankind are concerned. There are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound, not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Maharaja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly Citraketu also fell down due to his offense..."
Prabhupada: Therefore we forbid to take to the karmi's life. Because at the time of death, if he remains a karmi, then he'll have to take birth as a karmi. That is the risk. So this regulated life, holding class, chanting, that will not make us fall down. That is essential. It is essential, regulate, to follow the regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds, holding class. You can do anything, but this will keep us alive to the Krsna consciousness platform. If you neglect that, then that is very risky. Even if you get next life birth in a rich man's family, that is not guarantee. Because generally, rich man's sons, they go astray. They get money for nothing and they want to squander it. And material world, if you have got money, so many bad associates will come and help you to squander your money and spoil your life. Because you have got money, then so many friends will come. As soon as you have no money, nobody will come. Even your wife, children will not come. Therefore harisye tad dhanam sanaih. Krsna, first of all, takes away the money, makes him poor so that everyone will neglect him, and because he's Krsna conscious, he'll take Krsna, "Sir, I have no other alternative. Please give me protection." That is also another Krsna's policy, special favor, that "This man wanted Me. Now he's going astray. All right. That's all right. Take everything of his..."
Syamasundara: Like that man Patrick. Three businesses failed.
Prabhupada: Yes. That was my case also. Since my Guru Maharaja ordered me that "You do this." But I thought that "Let me become first of all rich man. Then I shall do," so He... Every business was...
Syamasundara: Maybe that is my case also.
Prabhupada: That is special favor. In the beginning I was thinking, "Now my godbrothers, they have taken sannyasa. They are begging from door to door. Why shall I beg? Let me earn money and start Krsna consciousness." But that never happened. So I had to... I was obliged to take the dress of my godbrothers and preach, instead of earning money. Yes. Some astrologer told me that I should have been a man like a Birla. And I got all those chances in the chemical line, to become... Now I am bigger than Birla. That's all right. But even in business field, there were signs that in money things... I got so many good chances. But everything... Dr. Karttika Candra Bose he appreciated my activities, "Very intelligent boy." He certified to my father-in-law. This is the way of becoming rich man.
Syamasundara: What happened?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Syamasundara: Why didn't...
Prabhupada: Something happened, and everything was finished. That is Krsna's grace. Just like something has happened wonderful. So that is also Krsna's grace.
Syamasundara: People stopped purchasing...?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Syamasundara: People stopped purchasing...?
Prabhupada: No. Just like Dr. Bose's laboratory. So Dr. Bose's laboratory, I was manager. Then I took his agency, very good terms. I was earning money like anything. But the next manager, he became envious. He began to poison Dr. Bose, to cut off our relationship. So it happened. Then, when I was Dr. Bose's agent, I become so much famous that Bengal Chemical, the biggest chemical factory, he, they wanted to give me the agency. If I would have taken that agency, I would have been the richest man in the chemical world. You see. But they made some condition. So I did not accept it. I wanted in my condition. That is the very little... But I was puffed-up, that "I am such a big... And this man is flattering. So I must get my condition fulfilled." So I did not accept it. The Smith Stanstreet gave me agency. Because in my work, in Dr. Bose's laboratory, I did it very creditably. So every other manufacturers, they became attracted to me, how to get me. The Smith Stanstreet Company, Bikepala(?) Company, Bose's, Bengal Chemical Company, they all wanted me. And I thought, "Oh, everyone wants me." So, so I refused. And later on there was a clique between Dr. Bose and me. So I lost everything. Then I started my own laboratory. Somehow or other, there was something, and...
Syamasundara: Oh, I see.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: In Bombay, you were having your own business then?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: Manufacturing?
Prabhupada: Yes. No, that is small manufacturing. So I got very, very good chance. But Krsna did not allow it. He wanted me to come to this point. That is my practical experience. And now I'm seeing that it is Krsna's so much favor. You see? Yasyaham, anugrhnami... It is, it is, actually it is His grace. "What he'll do by becoming Birla, rich man like Birla?" That was Krsna's plan. "Come here. Do this work." You see. My Guru Maharaja ordered. Krsna wanted. I was resisting Him. That's all. I was actually very expert businessman in chemical line. I did it very creditably in Bose's laboratory as manager and my own business. And everyone knows... Even in manufacturing also.
Syamasundara: Yeah, with that same experience now you've organized a world-wide society...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: And that's a big business.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: Difficult work.
Brahmananda: Just like before coming to India, in Japan, with simply five thousand dollars, you took fifty thousand dollars worth of merchandise.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: And you brought it, had it sent...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: And then everything...
Syamasundara: Life members...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: And then you devised the program for distributing them.
Prabhupada: Yes, practically India's, our, whatever we have got, it is starting with that five thousand dollars.
Syamasundara: Five thousand dollars.
Brahmananda: But it's like you were investing, taking goods on credit, and...
Prabhupada: Yes. And this membership became successful.
Brahmananda: Then you devised the method for distribution.
Prabhupada: This membership.
Syamasundara: Even the way you went to America in the beginning. You couldn't take money.
Prabhupada: No.
Syamasundara: So you had some books...
Prabhupada: Some books. Yes.
Syamasundara: Publish...
Prabhupada: That intelligence gives me, Krsna, "You do this." Buddhi-yogam dadami tam. Yes. And in my materialistic life, He was taking away my intelligence. Just like this Bose, Bengal Chemical agency, I should have accepted immediately. Such a big concern. Simply by sitting, I would have brought ten thousand rupees per month in those days. But there was no good intelligence. I thought, "No, I cannot accept your terms. You must accept..." Because I was at that time young man, puffed-up, no brain, no sober brain. They were so attracted with me. They would have given later on all facilities, but I did not accept. Similarly, Smith Stanstreet, they were also very good company.
Syamasundara: Smith's...?
Prabhupada: Smith Stanstreet, an English company. They gave me an agency. So some of my enemy... He was my, he was my employer, but he gave information that I am also manufacturing now, drug and chemical works. So they informed them that "He's pushing his own goods, not your goods." They... He wanted that agency. Yes. In this way, because as soon as you come in the... Even in the spiritual field, my godbrothers are envious. You see? So as soon as you become successful, there will be many enemies. That is natural. That is the sign of success. In your business, if there are many enemies, competitor, that means you are successful. So anyway, Krsna has brought me to the right path. So I may not fall down. That's all. (laughter) When I was reading this verse, that yasyaham anugrhnami harisye tad dhanam sanaih [SB 10.88.8], Krsna said that "When I show somebody My special favor, I take away all his money," I became shuddered, "So Krsna will take my all money? If He's..." And actually that happened. He took my all money, all family, all friends and everything. (laughs) And He asked me, "Go to America. You'll get many money, much money, many friends. You go ahead, Come here." Yes. That was His intention. And I was sticking to limited money, limited friends, limited society. This is special favor.
Brahmananda: So in Bombay you mentioned that Lilavati Munshi... There was one house...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: ...and you were trying to get that house...
Prabhupada: Yes, and she took away.
Brahmananda: ...and you were prevented.
Prabhupada: She took away. Because I was trying to organize a League of Devotees from that house, and Krsna wanted, "What is this nonsense? You are stick here, in Jhansi? You come here, in open field." That was Krsna's intent. But I thought that "Even Krsna took away this?" This Lilavati Munshi...
Syamasundara: Now her institution is...
Prabhupada: But my intention was to start this movement.
Syamasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupada: I was simply planning in different way. Therefore Krsna's favor. I never deviated from this plan. Since I heard it from my Guru Maharaja, I've simply planning how to do it successfully. But I thought at that time, that "I'll be able to do it if I get some money. Let me do some business for the time." That I was thinking. But Krsna said, "Even if you are pauper, you try; you'll get everything." But I thought, "Without money, how this can be done?" That was difference of opinion with Krsna, argument. And I was dreaming also, Guru Maharaja, asking me, "Come on." So I was going. So I was, "Oh, I have to go? I have to take sannyasa?"
Syamasundara: You, you dreaming?
Prabhupada: Yes. Guru Maharaja said, "Come, come with me." I was going. But that... Many things happened before this. Yes. And at last it became, in America.
Syamasundara: Did you tell everyone you were leaving, or you simply disappeared?
Prabhupada: No, I never said. Oh, why shall I? I lost all friends, money, everything.
Guru dasa: I met one gentleman from Allahabad... (Apparently someone comes in)
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Guru dasa: Oh.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Get this light. [break] ...to this point, and you have joined. Do it nicely. It is the greatest movement for making the whole human civilization happy. Take it seriously. Don't...
Tejas: Srila Prabhupada, this is Mister S. Domi(?) Singh, he's a... (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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