November 1, 1975
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Girl Devotee: ...lotus
flower.Prabhupada: All right. [break] They cannot enjoy. We are enjoying. Is
it not?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: They are sleeping. They are thinking they are enjoying.
Brahmananda: One has to know what is enjoyment.
Prabhupada: No, whatever it may be. We are utilizing it because we are fortunate. [break] ...explaining last night that earth, water, air, fire, they have come from Krsna's energy. Can you explain how it has come? Any one of you. People may say that "You can say like that, but prove that the earth has come from Krsna."
Devotee (1): You said last night... You mentioned a verse from the Bhagavad-gita, aham sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8], that Krsna is the source of everything.
Prabhupada: That's all right. That is... Your scripture says, but I am a third person. Why shall I believe in your scripture? You prove. You are quoting from your own scripture. I don't take your scripture. You give me practical explanation how earth has come from Krsna.
Devotee (1): Well, one has to accept the scriptures.
Prabhupada: So that you may accept.
Devotee (1): This is what Krsna has left here five thousand years ago.
Prabhupada: "That's all right. It doesn't matter. That doesn't matter."
Devotee (1): ...for your benefit, for everyone because you are part of Krsna too.
Prabhupada: That is your saying. You prove that.
Devotee (1): That's not my saying. That's the Supreme Lord's saying.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Indian man or Devotee (2): Like a child has to accept the authority of her mother to know about our father.
Prabhupada: That is all right, but you give some practical explanation that how earth has come from...
Devotee (1): The only practical explanation we can have or any living entity has is that explanation which his father gives him, the Supreme Lord gives him. He has given us...
Prabhupada: That is all right.
Devotee (1): ...explanation in the Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Still, vijnana means jnana and viveka. Viveka means personal conviction. That is called vijnana. Jnana and vijnana. One knowledge you get from me, and then you practically apply your consciousness that "Yes, what Prabhupada has said, it is right." That is called vijnana. One knowledge, accepting blindly from the authority, that is knowledge. But how it is practically made or done, that understanding is called vijnana.
Devotee (2): We have so many examples of...
Prabhupada: Give that example. That I wanted.
Devotee (2): We have so many examples of scientific creations by intelligent brain, personalities on this planet, so many things which we can see, like the clothes we wear and the machines we are using in our everyday lives which require...
Prabhupada: So how Krsna has prepared earth? That I want.
Devotee (2): So we can see by studying the nature of the construction of this earth that it is much more intelligent...
Prabhupada: So how earth is coming from Krsna? Tell me that.
Devotee (3): The scientists say that this earth came from gases, but they cannot explain exactly where those gases have come from. That source, that is Krsna.
Prabhupada: No, they do not know, but we know. How in your belly gas is formed? How? There was no gas, but automatically the gas is formed. And therefore sometimes, if it is much gas, then you go for treatment. So this is the practical. The gas is also generating from my body. So as I am an individual, insignificant body, if there is possibility of generating little gas, so Krsna's gigantic body, why not gigantic volume of gas? This is the explanation.
Jnana: The materialistic scientists, they are saying that matter is energy. So we understand if it's energy there must be an energetic.
Prabhupada: Yes. So how the energetic is producing, this is common. Gas is forming. Just like you perspire, there is water. So one ounce of water may come from your body. So water is coming from your body, so why not from the gigantic body of Krsna, the oceans, millions of oceans, come out? This should be the understanding. We see practically that water is coming out from my body. So it may be one ounce or less than that because my body is very small, but Krsna's body is unlimited, so why not unlimited supply of water? This should be the common sense. And this body, this body, what it is? It is earth. When the body will be dead it will be earth. So I am spirit soul, a small particle, so much earth is coming from me, why not Krsna, the supreme spirit? This is the explanation. God is great, I am small. From me a small quantity of earth is coming, water is coming. Why not from the gigantic body of Krsna, so huge, I mean to say, volume of water, gas, and everything as we see it is coming? So therefore Krsna is correct. He's correct, but for our understanding we can understand like this, chemicals, the chemicals coming from our body. There are so many salt. And you test the blood or the perspiration. You'll find so many chemicals.
Brahmananda: For us to... For our body to produce earth...
Prabhupada: Now, just to understand that I am part and parcel of Krsna, so the chemical and the water and the earth is coming from my body, so why not Krsna's body, gigantic, the greatest, the chemicals, water, earth, water...? When Krsna says, bhumir apo 'nalo, "It is My energy," that's fact. Where is the difficulty to understand? We can... We are little sample of God, a small God. So if we can produce, this body... The spirit soul as I have described yesterday, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, it is very, very minute. From that minute spirit so much earth, water, fire is coming. So why not the supreme spirit, huge quantity of water, earth, will not come? How one can deny it?
Harikesa: Well, but verbal analogies don't prove the scientific a fact.
Prabhupada: Then you are a rascal. Verbal analogy is proof. A small quantity, a small quantity producing; large quantity, large quantity producing. Where is the verbal? This is practical.
Harikesa: But that's assuming that God has a body, or there even is a God.
Prabhupada: Huh? But that is... You are blind rascal, you cannot see. That does not mean that He has no body. You cannot see even the president's body here. That means president has no body? You rascal, you cannot understand. Because you cannot see the president's body, you cannot say, "No, the president is bodyless." That is your defect. You become qualified to see the president. You'll see he has got a body. Those who are not qualified to see him, they can say that he has not body. But why he has no body? sastra says. So if you remain fools and rascals, that is another thing, but He has a body. Isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda, Brahma is saying. Why He has no body? Sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Vigraha means body.
Harikesa: But we don't know, so we're taking the known and speculating on that...
Prabhupada: You do not know; therefore you have to learn. If you want to remain rascal, fool, and still you want to know, that is not possible. You have to know from the real source. Then you'll know. But if you keep yourself in the rascal platform, then how you will know? Just like you have to go to a school to learn things. So how you can learn at home? Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You have to go in order to understand that science. So how do you argue, keeping yourself in darkness? In darkness you cannot see anything. "Oh, I do not see anything; therefore there is nothing." Is that very good reason? You are blind, you cannot see the darkness. That is another thing. But things are there. You make your eyes operated and manifest your vision. Then you'll see. Therefore, ajnana-timirandhasya jnananjana-salakaya caksur-unmilitam yena tasmai sri-gurave namah. Everyone is blind, in darkness. He cannot see anything. So one who opens the eyes, jnananjana-salakaya, by the torch of knowledge, he is guru. This is description of guru. If you are blind and have a blind guru, that is no use. Guru means who is not blind. I may be blind. Then that will be effective. This is no reason, "I cannot see." What you are? You can see? You cannot see even the president, and you want to see God without being qualified? This is laymans', rascal's reason, "I cannot see. I do not see." What you are? What you can see? You do not first of all evaluate what is your position, and you want to see something. The formula is there. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-
Harikesa: So I have to accept all this on faith.
Prabhupada: Not faith, it is practical. You are so foolish, you do not understand. Unless you are qualified, you cannot see anything. So you have to qualify. It is not faith. Disqualified. You are disqualified.
Devotee (1): Like sometimes you make the example you can't see the president unless you are qualified to see the president.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Devotee (1): Likewise, you can't see God unless you are qualified.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is wanted. It is not faith; it is fact. Unless you are fit to see something, you cannot see.
Jnana: Srila Prabhupada, you're making comparison with the water coming from the gigantic body of Krsna. The sweat, that's coming from water we took before. It's already existing.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Jnana: We're not making water or making chemicals out of nothing. The living entity's body, that comes from...
Brahmananda: We drink water, then comes the sweat.
Jnana: It's not produced out of nothing.
Prabhupada: Not without drinking? No. That's not fact.
Brahmananda: Actually they say the body is made out of water.
Prabhupada: "They say. They say." You don't drink water, and when you give me massage why do you perspire? You did not drink water. This is practical.
Brahmananda: But formerly I had drunk water.
Prabhupada: No, formerly, three hundred years, you had some water; therefore the water is coming out. This is all nonsense. Seven generation before my great-grandfather ate some ghee, and still I have got the smell. (laughter) It is that argument. Huh? This kind of argument has no value. Water is... You can create water from your body. What is there? You are a doctor. What is your...? Eh? Medical men they are. No? Water is created. How the blood is created? He did not drink blood. This is nonsense argument. How we create blood? It is becoming. You do not know how it is, but you have got such potency that blood is being created. You even do not know how the blood is being done, but it is being. That is inconceivable energy. There are so many secretions. They are coming within the body. So everything is there. By God's supreme energy they are being automatically. Svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. God has got multi-energies. Na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate. This is the description. He hasn't got to do anything. Just like so many things are being manufactured within my body. I haven't got to directly work for it. So similarly, the God's gigantic... Na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. Na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate. Na tat-samas cabhyadhikas ca drsyate. Nobody is found equal to Him or greater than Him. We are... He is God, and we are subordinate because we have many equals, but He has no equal. He is unlimited; we are limited. Parasya saktir vivdhaiva sruyate. He has got multi-energies. The energies are working. Just like here there are so many instruments within this box, but you just push one button and it works. You just push one button; the whole thing is working. So similarly, the God has made this body so perfect that whatever is required, it is being manufactured. Nobody can explain. Can you explain how your hair is... You shave today, and tomorrow again, how it is growing, can you explain? But it is coming out. The energy is there. Similarly, if in the small body, a sample of God, so many energies are there, automatically working, then, so far God is concerned, that parasya saktir, He has got unlimited number of energies and things are taking place automatically. This material world is also external body of Krsna. Just like our body, external body, and the hair is coming out. Do you endeavor for it? Similarly, the trees, plants, they are coming out.
Jnana: If I eat a lot I become fat. If I stop eating I become thin.
Prabhupada: You stupid, you eat so much, but God is not stupid. He is conscious perfectly. He has nothing to eat. Still, He can grow. That is the difference between me and God. You don't require to eat even. There are many saintly persons they do not eat. How they are working? Raghunatha dasa Gosvami was not eating. He was... Every alternate day he was, little butter, so much. That's all, not daily. Every alternate day. So actually we do not require to eat. Eating, sleeping, sex and defense -- this is bodily necessities. But you are not this body. When you come to the spiritual platform there is no necessity of these four principles. So that is your mistake, that you are thinking, "God has got a body like me. He requires eating for nourishing it." That is your foolishness. Angani yasya sakalendriya-vrttimanti. His body is so made that He can perform any limb's work by another limb. Just like we can see with the eyes. As soon as close the eyes, we cannot see. But Krsna can see by His ear. As soon as you pray to Krsna, immediately He sees you, "Oh, here is My devotee," by hearing the sound of your prayer.
Devotee(4): Srila Prabhupada, you said that our body was made by (indistinct). Why should we (indistinct)? But why should we come back?
Prabhupada: Because you have this material body, you have got so many necessities and God has no material body. He has got spiritual body. He has no necessity. Apta kama. He is fully satisfied. He doesn't require to take anything.
Brahmananda: He doesn't get hungry or thirsty.
Prabhupada: Neither. Neither of these things because He hasn't got material body. You have got this material body; therefore you have got all these defects.
Indian man (5): Sometimes it was seen that the people that don't eat, then their body becomes very weak. Then the soul leaves the body after some time. People when they don't eat, their body becomes very weak, the soul leaves the body. Practically it has been seen.
Brahmananda: Weak? Weak? The body becomes weak when they don't eat?
Indian man (5): Yes.
Prabhupada: So that is all for the material body. Weakness or strength or dwindling or becoming old is sad-avikara. Sad-avikara means birth, then growth, then sustenance, then by-products, then dwindling, then finish. This sad-avikara, six kinds of changes, are meant for the material body, not for the spiritual.
Harikesa: So everything is going on, and those things that are going on and they happen to fit in with the whole scheme, they continue. If there is some strength they survive, and if not, they die off, so everything is happening by chance. But because...
Prabhupada: Chance?
Harikesa: Yes, chance. But because... (laughter) But because...
Prabhupada: Another stupidity. (laughter)
Harikesa: But because some things happen to work, they continue.
Prabhupada: Will the medical man will say that everything happening by chance?
Harikesa: Well, that's because his body is all right. His body fits in with the scheme of things, so it can continue. But let's say the person doesn't eat, he can't get...
Prabhupada: They know that you have violated these rules of health, therefore you are diseased. There is no chance.
Harikesa: But he is fit to live so he can live. But someone other than...
Prabhupada: Nobody is fit. The doctors also become sick as soon as there is violation. The violation is the cause of sickness, so either he may be doctor or no doctor, that does not matter. If you violate, you'll be sick. That is nature's law. Nature's law.
Devotee (1): Speaking of chance, Srila Prabhupada, it was mentioned in the scriptures that, in The Nectar of Devotion, that in order to be involved in devotional service and execute devotional service in this life, we had to have some devotional service last life. So therefore, were you here last life too, to give us this devotional service?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Brahmananda: He's asking that in The Nectar of Devotion it is stated that for one to engage in devotional service means that in his previous life he had some connection with devotional service. So he's...
Prabhupada: So where is the chance? It is the cause and effect. If previous life you had some activities and the result is there. So where is chance?
Harikesa: So that's survival of the fittest. Because he could take to devotional service, he is surviving on in devotional service.
Prabhupada: Surviving... So he is surviving, but the cause and effect is going on.
Jnana: The scientists are saying the evolution of the body is purely by chance.
Prabhupada: That is nonsense. Therefore we call them stupid, rascals. There is no chance. Karanam guna-sango 'sya, Krsna says, karanam [Bg. 13.22]. There is no question of chance. Karanam guna-sango 'sya. Because you do not know how you are infecting... Just like you become all of a sudden attacked with cholera. You are thinking that it is by chance. It is not chance. Eh? What this medical man will... "It is chance." No. You infected somewhere. You do not know. And because you are foolish, you are taking it as chance. There is no question of chance.
Harikesa: But it was by chance I infected.
Prabhupada: No, not chance. Why did you go where there is cholera case? That is your foolishness. Why did you go there? When there is infectious disease a man is forbidden, not to go there. So you went there without any knowledge and you infected. Now you are suffering. That's all. There is no question of chance. That is foolishness. Chance means ignorance. The ignorant people, they do not know. They infect sinful activities, and they say, "by chance." There is no question of chance. Karanam guna-sango 'sya, Krsna says. There is no chance.
Cyavana: If God's energy is so perfect, then how does this ignorance come upon the living entity?
Prabhupada: That we have explained many times. You create your ignorance. Just like you cannot live without serving Krsna, but you create: "Why not independently?" That is your ignorance. By law, by nature's law, you cannot live without being subordinate to Krsna. But why you are thinking, "Why shall I be subordinate to Krsna?" Krsna is asking you, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. Why you are not doing that? Why you are not doing that? Krsna is personally asking, "You do this. I shall save you." Why you are not doing this? So you violate the laws of Krsna. You suffer. That's all.
Cyavana: But if that energy is perfect, how can it violate?
Prabhupada: Then you do not know what is living being. Living being has got the, I mean to say, independence, little independence. He can obey; he can violate. In our society there are so many. Somebody is strictly obeying, somebody is willfully, voluntary..., not voluntarily, willfully violating. They must fall down.
Jnana: If God is perfect, why didn't He make us perfect?
Prabhupada: He is made perfect, but He is not... You are not stone. God is not stone. You are living being. The same thing you are repeatedly asking. You have got little independence because you are part and parcel of God. So by misusing your independence, if you violate the orders of God, then you suffer. You are perfect because you have got independence, but you misuse that perfectness. That is your fault. You perfect. You become imperfect by misusing.
Jnana: Independence?
Prabhupada: Yes. Everything is perfect. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate, purnat purnam udacyate [Iso Invocation]. Because you are part and parcel of God, you are perfect, but willfully you become imperfect. Again you become perfect; then you become imperfect.
Jnana: Where does that will come from?
Prabhupada: Will is given to you. Living being means there is will -- thinking, feeling and willing. Don't question if you do not know. Everything comes from God. What is the use of "Where will comes?" Janmadya asya yatah. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam... [Bg. 10.8]. Everything is coming from Krsna. Krsna has got will; you have got will. Why do you ask? This is foolishness. Krsna has got independence; you have got independence. You are a small Krsna. A particle of gold is also gold. Everything is there. All chemical composition is there. It has come from Krsna. Why you are asking wherefrom it comes?
Jnana: All living beings are independent, but some choose to serve and some choose to disbelieve.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is use of independence. Otherwise what is the meaning of independence? The meaning of independence is: "If I like, I can do. If I do not like, I do not do." That is independence. That means independence. If you are stereotyped, forced to do, that is not independence. Independence means if you like, you can do it, if not -- you don't like-don't do it. That is independence. So misused independence means ignorance. He does not know that "If I infect this virus of this disease I'll suffer." But he does not know, ignorance. So he infects and he suffers.
Devotee (6): Srila Prabhupada, I was noticing your Srimad-Bhagavatams the other day and Caitanya-caritamrta. So I would like to take my time this time and offer my obeisances for such perfected, exalted work from such an exalted personality. All glories to you.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. (devotees offer obeisances) Thank you very much.
Devotee (6): I haven't seen anything so beautiful, so transcendental.
Prabhupada: Try to understand. Make your life successful.
Devotee (6): I will with your mercy, with your grace. I need help.
Prabhupada: That is my endeavor. I am trying to put things how people will understand and they become perfect. That is my endeavor, humble endeavor. That's all.
Jnana: Thank you very much, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Indian woman (7): (Hindi) [break]
Prabhupada: ...say that if he remain forward even in the front of danger, that is his first credit.
Indian woman (7): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: It was a great service. That was a great service, recognized. [break]
Devotee (8): It's a type of poem.
Prabhupada: Anyway, so this, like sword. The tree is just like sword, and the sinful man is pushed through that tree.
Jnana: Prabhupada, I've heard that even in hell the people think they are enjoying. Is that right?
Prabhupada: Where you have heard? (laughter)
Jnana: I thought that that was your own words.
Prabhupada: Don't think like that.
Cyavana: Not to think but to know.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is our position.
Cyavana: As soon as he says, "I think," he's disqualified. As soon as he's speculating.
Devotee (8): Prabhupada? Some of the people I've met... Like in the later volumes of Srimad-Bhagavatam, some of the information is so much against what the living entities are experiencing and being educated in, that I've noticed that some people have turned away from Krsna who already had some attraction when they hear these different topics, like the situation of the universe.
Prabhupada: Hm? What is that?
Brahmananda: That because in Srimad-Bhagavatam the knowledge there contradicts the mundane scientific knowledge, people who had some faith in Krsna become discouraged and turn away from Krsna.
Prabhupada: Let him go away. Don't care for him. Let all the fools go away. There is Bengali proverb, "Instead of maintaining some bad cows, let the cowshed be vacant." We shall prefer the cowshed vacant, no cow, than keeping all bad cows who does not give any milk, create disturbance.
Devotee (8): In our temple...
Prabhupada: We are giving chance, but we don't want bad cows. We haven't got to agree with their views. They must agree with our views, then they can live. Otherwise let them go away. This is position.
Indian man (9): Your Divine Grace, are we all equal in sight of God?
Brahmananda: Are we all equal in the eyes of God?
Prabhupada: But if you become unequal, you must go away. No. His question was they are disturbed. So that means they are unequal. Why they should be disturbed?
Cyavana: Krsna says, "All of them, as they surrender, I reward accordingly." So that means they are surrendering in different...
Prabhupada: Yes. He has not surrendered. He keeps himself separate from Krsna, and he is, artificially he shows surrender. Surrender does not mean that you reserve something for you. That is not surrender. Surrender means without reservation. That is surrender.
Devotee (8): Devotional service must be unconditional, or else it will drive us away.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like a child is surrendered to the parents. The parents say, "Sit down here." He sit down. That's all. No argument. That is surrender.
Indian (10): Srila Prabhupada, when we speak of parts and parcels of God, does it mean that we were there with God before we came to this world?
Prabhupada: You are part and parcel then? What is that?
Brahmananda: If we are part and parcels of God does it mean that we were with God before coming to the...
Prabhupada: You are always with God, even your rebellious condition, you are with God. Just like a prisoner. A prisoner is always with the government, (laughter) but in one department he is kicked, and in one department he is patted. That's all. So if you prefer to be kicked, you remain in maya. But you are always in connection with God.
Indian man (11): Lord Krsna says, "I am in everything."
Prabhupada: Yes. Your, this punishment condition is also God's creation, external energy. You cannot live for a second without God. But one who knows, he is blessed, and who does not know, he is condemned. But you know or not know, you are always with God. That is your position.
Devotee (12): Srila Prabhupada, how best can we present the teachings of...
Prabhupada: Just abide by the orders of God and His representative. Then you be happy. Otherwise not.
Harikesa: This side, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the verse.
Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. Thank you.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. (end)
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: They are sleeping. They are thinking they are enjoying.
Brahmananda: One has to know what is enjoyment.
Prabhupada: No, whatever it may be. We are utilizing it because we are fortunate. [break] ...explaining last night that earth, water, air, fire, they have come from Krsna's energy. Can you explain how it has come? Any one of you. People may say that "You can say like that, but prove that the earth has come from Krsna."
Devotee (1): You said last night... You mentioned a verse from the Bhagavad-gita, aham sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8], that Krsna is the source of everything.
Prabhupada: That's all right. That is... Your scripture says, but I am a third person. Why shall I believe in your scripture? You prove. You are quoting from your own scripture. I don't take your scripture. You give me practical explanation how earth has come from Krsna.
Devotee (1): Well, one has to accept the scriptures.
Prabhupada: So that you may accept.
Devotee (1): This is what Krsna has left here five thousand years ago.
Prabhupada: "That's all right. It doesn't matter. That doesn't matter."
Devotee (1): ...for your benefit, for everyone because you are part of Krsna too.
Prabhupada: That is your saying. You prove that.
Devotee (1): That's not my saying. That's the Supreme Lord's saying.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Indian man or Devotee (2): Like a child has to accept the authority of her mother to know about our father.
Prabhupada: That is all right, but you give some practical explanation that how earth has come from...
Devotee (1): The only practical explanation we can have or any living entity has is that explanation which his father gives him, the Supreme Lord gives him. He has given us...
Prabhupada: That is all right.
Devotee (1): ...explanation in the Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Still, vijnana means jnana and viveka. Viveka means personal conviction. That is called vijnana. Jnana and vijnana. One knowledge you get from me, and then you practically apply your consciousness that "Yes, what Prabhupada has said, it is right." That is called vijnana. One knowledge, accepting blindly from the authority, that is knowledge. But how it is practically made or done, that understanding is called vijnana.
Devotee (2): We have so many examples of...
Prabhupada: Give that example. That I wanted.
Devotee (2): We have so many examples of scientific creations by intelligent brain, personalities on this planet, so many things which we can see, like the clothes we wear and the machines we are using in our everyday lives which require...
Prabhupada: So how Krsna has prepared earth? That I want.
Devotee (2): So we can see by studying the nature of the construction of this earth that it is much more intelligent...
Prabhupada: So how earth is coming from Krsna? Tell me that.
Devotee (3): The scientists say that this earth came from gases, but they cannot explain exactly where those gases have come from. That source, that is Krsna.
Prabhupada: No, they do not know, but we know. How in your belly gas is formed? How? There was no gas, but automatically the gas is formed. And therefore sometimes, if it is much gas, then you go for treatment. So this is the practical. The gas is also generating from my body. So as I am an individual, insignificant body, if there is possibility of generating little gas, so Krsna's gigantic body, why not gigantic volume of gas? This is the explanation.
Jnana: The materialistic scientists, they are saying that matter is energy. So we understand if it's energy there must be an energetic.
Prabhupada: Yes. So how the energetic is producing, this is common. Gas is forming. Just like you perspire, there is water. So one ounce of water may come from your body. So water is coming from your body, so why not from the gigantic body of Krsna, the oceans, millions of oceans, come out? This should be the understanding. We see practically that water is coming out from my body. So it may be one ounce or less than that because my body is very small, but Krsna's body is unlimited, so why not unlimited supply of water? This should be the common sense. And this body, this body, what it is? It is earth. When the body will be dead it will be earth. So I am spirit soul, a small particle, so much earth is coming from me, why not Krsna, the supreme spirit? This is the explanation. God is great, I am small. From me a small quantity of earth is coming, water is coming. Why not from the gigantic body of Krsna, so huge, I mean to say, volume of water, gas, and everything as we see it is coming? So therefore Krsna is correct. He's correct, but for our understanding we can understand like this, chemicals, the chemicals coming from our body. There are so many salt. And you test the blood or the perspiration. You'll find so many chemicals.
Brahmananda: For us to... For our body to produce earth...
Prabhupada: Now, just to understand that I am part and parcel of Krsna, so the chemical and the water and the earth is coming from my body, so why not Krsna's body, gigantic, the greatest, the chemicals, water, earth, water...? When Krsna says, bhumir apo 'nalo, "It is My energy," that's fact. Where is the difficulty to understand? We can... We are little sample of God, a small God. So if we can produce, this body... The spirit soul as I have described yesterday, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, it is very, very minute. From that minute spirit so much earth, water, fire is coming. So why not the supreme spirit, huge quantity of water, earth, will not come? How one can deny it?
Harikesa: Well, but verbal analogies don't prove the scientific a fact.
Prabhupada: Then you are a rascal. Verbal analogy is proof. A small quantity, a small quantity producing; large quantity, large quantity producing. Where is the verbal? This is practical.
Harikesa: But that's assuming that God has a body, or there even is a God.
Prabhupada: Huh? But that is... You are blind rascal, you cannot see. That does not mean that He has no body. You cannot see even the president's body here. That means president has no body? You rascal, you cannot understand. Because you cannot see the president's body, you cannot say, "No, the president is bodyless." That is your defect. You become qualified to see the president. You'll see he has got a body. Those who are not qualified to see him, they can say that he has not body. But why he has no body? sastra says. So if you remain fools and rascals, that is another thing, but He has a body. Isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda, Brahma is saying. Why He has no body? Sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Vigraha means body.
Harikesa: But we don't know, so we're taking the known and speculating on that...
Prabhupada: You do not know; therefore you have to learn. If you want to remain rascal, fool, and still you want to know, that is not possible. You have to know from the real source. Then you'll know. But if you keep yourself in the rascal platform, then how you will know? Just like you have to go to a school to learn things. So how you can learn at home? Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You have to go in order to understand that science. So how do you argue, keeping yourself in darkness? In darkness you cannot see anything. "Oh, I do not see anything; therefore there is nothing." Is that very good reason? You are blind, you cannot see the darkness. That is another thing. But things are there. You make your eyes operated and manifest your vision. Then you'll see. Therefore, ajnana-timirandhasya jnananjana-salakaya caksur-unmilitam yena tasmai sri-gurave namah. Everyone is blind, in darkness. He cannot see anything. So one who opens the eyes, jnananjana-salakaya, by the torch of knowledge, he is guru. This is description of guru. If you are blind and have a blind guru, that is no use. Guru means who is not blind. I may be blind. Then that will be effective. This is no reason, "I cannot see." What you are? You can see? You cannot see even the president, and you want to see God without being qualified? This is laymans', rascal's reason, "I cannot see. I do not see." What you are? What you can see? You do not first of all evaluate what is your position, and you want to see something. The formula is there. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-
Harikesa: So I have to accept all this on faith.
Prabhupada: Not faith, it is practical. You are so foolish, you do not understand. Unless you are qualified, you cannot see anything. So you have to qualify. It is not faith. Disqualified. You are disqualified.
Devotee (1): Like sometimes you make the example you can't see the president unless you are qualified to see the president.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Devotee (1): Likewise, you can't see God unless you are qualified.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is wanted. It is not faith; it is fact. Unless you are fit to see something, you cannot see.
Jnana: Srila Prabhupada, you're making comparison with the water coming from the gigantic body of Krsna. The sweat, that's coming from water we took before. It's already existing.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Jnana: We're not making water or making chemicals out of nothing. The living entity's body, that comes from...
Brahmananda: We drink water, then comes the sweat.
Jnana: It's not produced out of nothing.
Prabhupada: Not without drinking? No. That's not fact.
Brahmananda: Actually they say the body is made out of water.
Prabhupada: "They say. They say." You don't drink water, and when you give me massage why do you perspire? You did not drink water. This is practical.
Brahmananda: But formerly I had drunk water.
Prabhupada: No, formerly, three hundred years, you had some water; therefore the water is coming out. This is all nonsense. Seven generation before my great-grandfather ate some ghee, and still I have got the smell. (laughter) It is that argument. Huh? This kind of argument has no value. Water is... You can create water from your body. What is there? You are a doctor. What is your...? Eh? Medical men they are. No? Water is created. How the blood is created? He did not drink blood. This is nonsense argument. How we create blood? It is becoming. You do not know how it is, but you have got such potency that blood is being created. You even do not know how the blood is being done, but it is being. That is inconceivable energy. There are so many secretions. They are coming within the body. So everything is there. By God's supreme energy they are being automatically. Svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. God has got multi-energies. Na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate. This is the description. He hasn't got to do anything. Just like so many things are being manufactured within my body. I haven't got to directly work for it. So similarly, the God's gigantic... Na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. Na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate. Na tat-samas cabhyadhikas ca drsyate. Nobody is found equal to Him or greater than Him. We are... He is God, and we are subordinate because we have many equals, but He has no equal. He is unlimited; we are limited. Parasya saktir vivdhaiva sruyate. He has got multi-energies. The energies are working. Just like here there are so many instruments within this box, but you just push one button and it works. You just push one button; the whole thing is working. So similarly, the God has made this body so perfect that whatever is required, it is being manufactured. Nobody can explain. Can you explain how your hair is... You shave today, and tomorrow again, how it is growing, can you explain? But it is coming out. The energy is there. Similarly, if in the small body, a sample of God, so many energies are there, automatically working, then, so far God is concerned, that parasya saktir, He has got unlimited number of energies and things are taking place automatically. This material world is also external body of Krsna. Just like our body, external body, and the hair is coming out. Do you endeavor for it? Similarly, the trees, plants, they are coming out.
Jnana: If I eat a lot I become fat. If I stop eating I become thin.
Prabhupada: You stupid, you eat so much, but God is not stupid. He is conscious perfectly. He has nothing to eat. Still, He can grow. That is the difference between me and God. You don't require to eat even. There are many saintly persons they do not eat. How they are working? Raghunatha dasa Gosvami was not eating. He was... Every alternate day he was, little butter, so much. That's all, not daily. Every alternate day. So actually we do not require to eat. Eating, sleeping, sex and defense -- this is bodily necessities. But you are not this body. When you come to the spiritual platform there is no necessity of these four principles. So that is your mistake, that you are thinking, "God has got a body like me. He requires eating for nourishing it." That is your foolishness. Angani yasya sakalendriya-vrttimanti. His body is so made that He can perform any limb's work by another limb. Just like we can see with the eyes. As soon as close the eyes, we cannot see. But Krsna can see by His ear. As soon as you pray to Krsna, immediately He sees you, "Oh, here is My devotee," by hearing the sound of your prayer.
Devotee(4): Srila Prabhupada, you said that our body was made by (indistinct). Why should we (indistinct)? But why should we come back?
Prabhupada: Because you have this material body, you have got so many necessities and God has no material body. He has got spiritual body. He has no necessity. Apta kama. He is fully satisfied. He doesn't require to take anything.
Brahmananda: He doesn't get hungry or thirsty.
Prabhupada: Neither. Neither of these things because He hasn't got material body. You have got this material body; therefore you have got all these defects.
Indian man (5): Sometimes it was seen that the people that don't eat, then their body becomes very weak. Then the soul leaves the body after some time. People when they don't eat, their body becomes very weak, the soul leaves the body. Practically it has been seen.
Brahmananda: Weak? Weak? The body becomes weak when they don't eat?
Indian man (5): Yes.
Prabhupada: So that is all for the material body. Weakness or strength or dwindling or becoming old is sad-avikara. Sad-avikara means birth, then growth, then sustenance, then by-products, then dwindling, then finish. This sad-avikara, six kinds of changes, are meant for the material body, not for the spiritual.
Harikesa: So everything is going on, and those things that are going on and they happen to fit in with the whole scheme, they continue. If there is some strength they survive, and if not, they die off, so everything is happening by chance. But because...
Prabhupada: Chance?
Harikesa: Yes, chance. But because... (laughter) But because...
Prabhupada: Another stupidity. (laughter)
Harikesa: But because some things happen to work, they continue.
Prabhupada: Will the medical man will say that everything happening by chance?
Harikesa: Well, that's because his body is all right. His body fits in with the scheme of things, so it can continue. But let's say the person doesn't eat, he can't get...
Prabhupada: They know that you have violated these rules of health, therefore you are diseased. There is no chance.
Harikesa: But he is fit to live so he can live. But someone other than...
Prabhupada: Nobody is fit. The doctors also become sick as soon as there is violation. The violation is the cause of sickness, so either he may be doctor or no doctor, that does not matter. If you violate, you'll be sick. That is nature's law. Nature's law.
Devotee (1): Speaking of chance, Srila Prabhupada, it was mentioned in the scriptures that, in The Nectar of Devotion, that in order to be involved in devotional service and execute devotional service in this life, we had to have some devotional service last life. So therefore, were you here last life too, to give us this devotional service?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Brahmananda: He's asking that in The Nectar of Devotion it is stated that for one to engage in devotional service means that in his previous life he had some connection with devotional service. So he's...
Prabhupada: So where is the chance? It is the cause and effect. If previous life you had some activities and the result is there. So where is chance?
Harikesa: So that's survival of the fittest. Because he could take to devotional service, he is surviving on in devotional service.
Prabhupada: Surviving... So he is surviving, but the cause and effect is going on.
Jnana: The scientists are saying the evolution of the body is purely by chance.
Prabhupada: That is nonsense. Therefore we call them stupid, rascals. There is no chance. Karanam guna-sango 'sya, Krsna says, karanam [Bg. 13.22]. There is no question of chance. Karanam guna-sango 'sya. Because you do not know how you are infecting... Just like you become all of a sudden attacked with cholera. You are thinking that it is by chance. It is not chance. Eh? What this medical man will... "It is chance." No. You infected somewhere. You do not know. And because you are foolish, you are taking it as chance. There is no question of chance.
Harikesa: But it was by chance I infected.
Prabhupada: No, not chance. Why did you go where there is cholera case? That is your foolishness. Why did you go there? When there is infectious disease a man is forbidden, not to go there. So you went there without any knowledge and you infected. Now you are suffering. That's all. There is no question of chance. That is foolishness. Chance means ignorance. The ignorant people, they do not know. They infect sinful activities, and they say, "by chance." There is no question of chance. Karanam guna-sango 'sya, Krsna says. There is no chance.
Cyavana: If God's energy is so perfect, then how does this ignorance come upon the living entity?
Prabhupada: That we have explained many times. You create your ignorance. Just like you cannot live without serving Krsna, but you create: "Why not independently?" That is your ignorance. By law, by nature's law, you cannot live without being subordinate to Krsna. But why you are thinking, "Why shall I be subordinate to Krsna?" Krsna is asking you, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. Why you are not doing that? Why you are not doing that? Krsna is personally asking, "You do this. I shall save you." Why you are not doing this? So you violate the laws of Krsna. You suffer. That's all.
Cyavana: But if that energy is perfect, how can it violate?
Prabhupada: Then you do not know what is living being. Living being has got the, I mean to say, independence, little independence. He can obey; he can violate. In our society there are so many. Somebody is strictly obeying, somebody is willfully, voluntary..., not voluntarily, willfully violating. They must fall down.
Jnana: If God is perfect, why didn't He make us perfect?
Prabhupada: He is made perfect, but He is not... You are not stone. God is not stone. You are living being. The same thing you are repeatedly asking. You have got little independence because you are part and parcel of God. So by misusing your independence, if you violate the orders of God, then you suffer. You are perfect because you have got independence, but you misuse that perfectness. That is your fault. You perfect. You become imperfect by misusing.
Jnana: Independence?
Prabhupada: Yes. Everything is perfect. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate, purnat purnam udacyate [Iso Invocation]. Because you are part and parcel of God, you are perfect, but willfully you become imperfect. Again you become perfect; then you become imperfect.
Jnana: Where does that will come from?
Prabhupada: Will is given to you. Living being means there is will -- thinking, feeling and willing. Don't question if you do not know. Everything comes from God. What is the use of "Where will comes?" Janmadya asya yatah. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam... [Bg. 10.8]. Everything is coming from Krsna. Krsna has got will; you have got will. Why do you ask? This is foolishness. Krsna has got independence; you have got independence. You are a small Krsna. A particle of gold is also gold. Everything is there. All chemical composition is there. It has come from Krsna. Why you are asking wherefrom it comes?
Jnana: All living beings are independent, but some choose to serve and some choose to disbelieve.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is use of independence. Otherwise what is the meaning of independence? The meaning of independence is: "If I like, I can do. If I do not like, I do not do." That is independence. That means independence. If you are stereotyped, forced to do, that is not independence. Independence means if you like, you can do it, if not -- you don't like-don't do it. That is independence. So misused independence means ignorance. He does not know that "If I infect this virus of this disease I'll suffer." But he does not know, ignorance. So he infects and he suffers.
Devotee (6): Srila Prabhupada, I was noticing your Srimad-Bhagavatams the other day and Caitanya-caritamrta. So I would like to take my time this time and offer my obeisances for such perfected, exalted work from such an exalted personality. All glories to you.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. (devotees offer obeisances) Thank you very much.
Devotee (6): I haven't seen anything so beautiful, so transcendental.
Prabhupada: Try to understand. Make your life successful.
Devotee (6): I will with your mercy, with your grace. I need help.
Prabhupada: That is my endeavor. I am trying to put things how people will understand and they become perfect. That is my endeavor, humble endeavor. That's all.
Jnana: Thank you very much, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Indian woman (7): (Hindi) [break]
Prabhupada: ...say that if he remain forward even in the front of danger, that is his first credit.
Indian woman (7): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: It was a great service. That was a great service, recognized. [break]
Devotee (8): It's a type of poem.
Prabhupada: Anyway, so this, like sword. The tree is just like sword, and the sinful man is pushed through that tree.
Jnana: Prabhupada, I've heard that even in hell the people think they are enjoying. Is that right?
Prabhupada: Where you have heard? (laughter)
Jnana: I thought that that was your own words.
Prabhupada: Don't think like that.
Cyavana: Not to think but to know.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is our position.
Cyavana: As soon as he says, "I think," he's disqualified. As soon as he's speculating.
Devotee (8): Prabhupada? Some of the people I've met... Like in the later volumes of Srimad-Bhagavatam, some of the information is so much against what the living entities are experiencing and being educated in, that I've noticed that some people have turned away from Krsna who already had some attraction when they hear these different topics, like the situation of the universe.
Prabhupada: Hm? What is that?
Brahmananda: That because in Srimad-Bhagavatam the knowledge there contradicts the mundane scientific knowledge, people who had some faith in Krsna become discouraged and turn away from Krsna.
Prabhupada: Let him go away. Don't care for him. Let all the fools go away. There is Bengali proverb, "Instead of maintaining some bad cows, let the cowshed be vacant." We shall prefer the cowshed vacant, no cow, than keeping all bad cows who does not give any milk, create disturbance.
Devotee (8): In our temple...
Prabhupada: We are giving chance, but we don't want bad cows. We haven't got to agree with their views. They must agree with our views, then they can live. Otherwise let them go away. This is position.
Indian man (9): Your Divine Grace, are we all equal in sight of God?
Brahmananda: Are we all equal in the eyes of God?
Prabhupada: But if you become unequal, you must go away. No. His question was they are disturbed. So that means they are unequal. Why they should be disturbed?
Cyavana: Krsna says, "All of them, as they surrender, I reward accordingly." So that means they are surrendering in different...
Prabhupada: Yes. He has not surrendered. He keeps himself separate from Krsna, and he is, artificially he shows surrender. Surrender does not mean that you reserve something for you. That is not surrender. Surrender means without reservation. That is surrender.
Devotee (8): Devotional service must be unconditional, or else it will drive us away.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like a child is surrendered to the parents. The parents say, "Sit down here." He sit down. That's all. No argument. That is surrender.
Indian (10): Srila Prabhupada, when we speak of parts and parcels of God, does it mean that we were there with God before we came to this world?
Prabhupada: You are part and parcel then? What is that?
Brahmananda: If we are part and parcels of God does it mean that we were with God before coming to the...
Prabhupada: You are always with God, even your rebellious condition, you are with God. Just like a prisoner. A prisoner is always with the government, (laughter) but in one department he is kicked, and in one department he is patted. That's all. So if you prefer to be kicked, you remain in maya. But you are always in connection with God.
Indian man (11): Lord Krsna says, "I am in everything."
Prabhupada: Yes. Your, this punishment condition is also God's creation, external energy. You cannot live for a second without God. But one who knows, he is blessed, and who does not know, he is condemned. But you know or not know, you are always with God. That is your position.
Devotee (12): Srila Prabhupada, how best can we present the teachings of...
Prabhupada: Just abide by the orders of God and His representative. Then you be happy. Otherwise not.
Harikesa: This side, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the verse.
Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. Thank you.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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