Bhagavan: This book is being
published in twelve volumes.Professor La Combe: Yes.
(indistinct)
Bhagavan: Yale University. I think you are familiar with Yale University in the United States. They have already placed advanced order for all these volumes. (French)
Prabhupada: We are translating the Srimad-Bhagavatam and other Vedic literature. You have seen the sample, original verse, word to word meaning, then translation, then giving a purport.
Professor La Combe: You wrote the commentary.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: What is the parampara from Caitanya?
Prabhupada: From Caitanya Mahaprabhu? Yes. The Six Gosvamis: Rupa, Sanatana, Bhatta Raghunatha, Sri Jiva, Gopala Bhatta, Dasa Raghunatha. The Six Gosvamis. Then from the Gosvamis there is Srinivasacarya. Then from him, I think, this Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, and then Narottama dasa Thakura. Then Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, then Jagannatha dasa Babaji, then Bhaktivinoda Thakura, then Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji Maharaja, then my Guru Maharaja. Next we are. I am the tenth or eleventh, eleventh from Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Professor La Combe: And you have come to a round visit to the west now?
Prabhupada: I have come several times.
Professor La Combe: Yes, but this time.
Prabhupada: This time, yes, just to see my centers. I have got many...
Professor La Combe: This is your Paris establishment?
Prabhupada: Yes, Paris establishment, yes.
Professor La Combe: Formerly you were in the south of..., in the banlieu (suburbs).
Jyotirmayi: Yes, before.
French Devotee: At Fontenay-aux-Rose.
Jyotirmayi: One year ago we came here in Paris.
Professor La Combe: It's more noisy and..., but its more easy and more convenient. When was this Paris center started?
Jyotirmayi: It started four years ago.
Professor La Combe: And this is your first visit to this center?
Prabhupada: No, this is the fourth visit.
Professor La Combe: Fourth visit, every year.
Prabhupada: Yes. Last year also, I came. I installed the Deity.
Professor La Combe: You now come right from Vrndavana or...?
Prabhupada: Yes, I am coming from Vrndavana of course, via Delhi. Then Rome, then Geneva, then Paris. Then I shall go to Frankfurt. And from there I shall go to Sydney, Australia.
Professor La Combe: Oh, this is not the direct way.
Bhagavan: We have a Ratha-yatra Festival. You have heard of this festival, from Jagannatha Puri.
Professor La Combe: Yes, of course. I have been there.
Bhagavan: We have this festival in very big, in the same scale, in Australia, London, San Francisco, Chicago.
Prabhupada: Where is that poster? Australia? Yes.
Bhagavan: And in all these cities we are joined... In San Francisco there are ten thousand people who come at least every year to help pull the carts and chant Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: In Chicago also. Philadelphia. There will be Ratha-yatra. this is the...
Satsvarupa: This is for Melbourne, Australia, Ratha-yatra parade, (shows a poster), picture of the parade last year.
Professor La Combe: Last year.
Prabhupada: No, this year they are advertising.
Professor La Combe: Which is to come.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Satsvarupa: This is a poster that Hamsaduta sent for Frankfurt for next week.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. This is German language.
Professor La Combe: And all is in the vicinity of Frankfurt.
Prabhupada: Yes. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu predicted. You understand little Bengali? Do you understand...
Professor La Combe: Bengali not... Sanskrit, but not...
Prabhupada: The Bengali words,
prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama
sarvatra pracara haibe mora nama
Prthivite -- this is Sanskrit -- "all over the world;" ache, "there are;" yata, "as many;" nagaradi grama, nagara, "towns...,"
Professor La Combe: Cities and villages.
Prabhupada: Cities, yes, villages; sarvatra...,
Professor La Combe: Everywhere.
Prabhupada: "everywhere;" pracara, "propaganda" or "publicity," pracara; haibe, "there will be;" mora nama, Caitanya Mahaprabhu's name. So now it is being so. All over the world we have got branches, and they know Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna movement means Caitanya Mahaprabhu's. So that is being now propagated.
prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama
sarvatra pracara haibe mora nama
Professor La Combe: I understand.
Prabhupada: So He predicted and by His great will it is being propagated.
Professor La Combe: How many officials (?) are there?
Prabhupada: We have got about hundred branches, and each branch, there are not less than twenty-five up to 250. So average, if you take one hundred, then it is ten thousand, yes. And all of them are young, within thirty, within thirty. So... And they are trying to understand the philosophy very nicely, even these girls. She knows. In India, even the big, big learned scholars, they are-Indian scholar, I mean -- they were surprised when some of my students, the young students, girls and boys, were speaking in Navadvipa.
Professor La Combe: You have all been to India?
Bhagavan: Not all. Some of us.
Professor La Combe: Not all. Some of you.
Bhagavan: We have a very big center in Mayapura.
Prabhupada: Navadvipa, the birthplace of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Professor La Combe: I have been in Navadvipa.
Prabhupada: I see.
Professor La Combe: Long ago in 1936.
Prabhupada: 1936. Did you see my Guru Maharaja?
Professor La Combe: No.
Prabhupada: No. He passed away in 1936 in December, in December.
Professor La Combe: No, I have not seen him. Probably he was already ill or... He was ill.
Prabhupada: Bhaktisiddhanta Saras... That is the photograph of my guru. His Guru Maharaja and his Guru Maharaja...
Professor La Combe: And so on.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is parampara. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Bhagavad-gita. Find out this.
Professor La Combe: And how do you...? It was one of your pupils who spoke about Ramanuja.
Prabhupada: Yes, Ramanuja. He belongs to the Sri-sampradaya.
Professor La Combe: Yes. But there is a connection.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. All the Vaisnava acaryas, they are connected. Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnu Svami, Nimbarka. So we belong to Madhvacarya. Caitanya Mahaprabhu belonged to Madhvacarya. Madhvacarya was direct disciple of Vyasadeva, and by parampara, Madhavendra Puri. Then from Madhavendra Puri, Isvara Puri. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu accepted Isvara Puri as His spiritual master. So we belong to this Madhvacarya-sampradaya, Madhvacarya-sampradaya or Brahma-sampradaya. The sampradaya, the disciplic succession, is coming from Lord Brahma. Brahma's disciple is Narada. Narada's disciple is Vyasadeva. And Vyasadeva's disciple is Madhvacarya. And from Madhvacarya, Madhavendra Puri, Isvara Puri. Then Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Then we are, Caitan..., like that.
Professor La Combe: One of you mentioned, because I had made a translation of the beginning of the Sri-bhasya, Ramanuja.
Prabhupada: Accha. Sri-bhasya, Bhagavad-gita?
Professor La Combe: No. The Sri-bhasya, the Brahma-sutra bhasya. Unfortunately, it is out of print.
Prabhupada: I see.
Professor La Combe: So one of you, I think...
Devotee: (indistinct)
Professor La Combe: You can read it in the library, but unfortunately, it is out of print. Yes. It is a complete translation of the first part you see. 850 pages with the text and notes.
Prabhupada: Oh. I see. Just like we do text and transliteration?
Professor La Combe: The text is in nagari.
Bhagavan: There are synonyms in your translation? Do you give the synonym for the word?
Prabhupada: Equivalent.
Satsvarupa: His style here. Prabhupada gives the Bengali...
Professor La Combe: Transliteration? No, no, there is no transliteration.
Satsvarupa: Translation, purport or notes.
Professor La Combe: No, there is only translation and notes. But some of the synonyms are in the notes. And the purport also comes in in the notes when necessary.
Bhagavan: You are teaching a course now?
Professor La Combe: I finished. The year is finished.
Bhagavan: Yes. You were teaching a course?
Professor La Combe: Not on this...
Bhagavan: What was the name of that course?
Jyotirmayi: He was teaching the Tenth Canto.
Professor La Combe: Comparative philosophy, the Indian branch.
Jyotirmayi: But this year you were teaching the Tenth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam.
Professor La Combe: Yes. That was one of them actually, with other courses. But I am retiring, finished, you see. I retire to come...
Prabhupada: So comparative philosophy, Mayavada, that Advaita-vada, Dvaita-vada, Visistadvaita. Which of them you like? Or you remain simply student? You remain neutral or you like some philosophy?
Professor La Combe: I try to be objective, but not neutral. I have more personal affinity with Sankara, er, with Ramanuja than with Sankara.
Prabhupada: No, Ramanuja...
Bhagavan: Personal attraction.
Professor La Combe: Yes. Although, of course, I try... I have written another book on Sankara and Ramanuja compared, you see.
Prabhupada: I see.
Professor La Combe: The notions of Brahman and atman both in Sankara and Ramanuja. That one is not of out of print. It is called in French L'Absolute selons les Vedanta.
Prabhupada: But Sankaracarya has accepted Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sa bhagavan svayam krsnah devaki-putrah. He has written like that in his comment on Bhagavad-gita.
Professor La Combe: Bhagavad-gita, yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. So... And all the acaryas, Vaisnava acaryas, they accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So practically, amongst the authorities, Indian acaryas, everyone accepts Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Ramanujacarya has written his bhasya on Bhagavad-gita.
Professor La Combe: I read it. And Sankara's also, both.
Prabhupada: Ramanujacarya has not written. Sankara has written. Sariraka-bhasya, Vedanta-sutra. He has written comment on Bhagavad-gita.
Professor La Combe: Yes, and Ramanuja.
Prabhupada: Ramanujacarya also. Also Sridhara Svami. Sridhara Svami he has written. He belongs to Visnu Svami-sampradaya. And our Gaudiya-Vaisnava, Visvanatha Cakravarti, he has written comments. And Baladeva Vidyabhusana, Bhaktivinoda Thakura.
Professor La Combe: Oh yes, there is long list of commentaries on the Gita.
Prabhupada: Yes. There are ten tikas.
Professor La Combe: This is published?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: Where is it printed?
Bhagavan: It is printed in Japan. And we have our publishing house in New York.
Professor La Combe: This is the second volume of the first..., Adi-lila.
Prabhupada: Yes. Adi-lila, yes.
Bhagavan: You are familiar with Caitanya Mahaprabhu's philosophy?
Professor La Combe: Yes. You see, I started Sanskrit and Indian studies in 1929 when we were abroad.
Prabhupada: You have been in India several times.
Professor La Combe: Many times, yes.
Prabhupada: Where did you stay generally?
Professor La Combe: In several places, but mainly in Calcutta. But in many other places too.
Prabhupada: Calcutta where?
Professor La Combe: Park Mansions, Park St., near Asiatic Society.
Prabhupada: Park St. Asiatic Society. Yes, I know that. It is just on the junction of Park St. and Chowringhee. Calcutta is my birthplace.
Professor La Combe: You were born in Calcutta.
Prabhupada: Yes. All our former relatives, they are in Calcutta.
Professor La Combe: Even now.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: I think the situation is better now in Calcutta, improving.
Prabhupada: Yes, little better.
Professor La Combe: Because my last visit there was in 1970 and it was the worst moment. But I hear that it is improving.
Prabhupada: Improving, yes. Just near that Asiatic Society we held our Hare Krsna Festival in front of, I think, the museum.
Professor La Combe: Yes, on Chowringhee.
Prabhupada: Yes, and it was very successful. Daily, thirty thousand people were assembling.
Professor La Combe: This year?
Prabhupada: No. (break in tape) ...God conscious. So the leaders suppressing. This is the present position. The leaders are more or less communists, and they are suppressing their natural outflow and that is the position now.
Professor La Combe: But I think that nowadays the situation in Calcutta is better. You would not have the same kind of difficulties this year I suppose.
Prabhupada: No, it is easier now. In 1970, '69 there was no security. When you go out, there is no security whether you'll come back. Yes. You were at that time there? No.
Devotee: No, I arrived there just after. I arrived in Bombay when that was happening. The Naxalites...
Prabhupada: Any man walking on the street can be killed. It was the situation.
Devotee: Especially any rich man or politician.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: The Vice Chancellor of Jadavpur University was killed the day before I arrived in Calcutta.
Prabhupada: Old gentleman?
Professor La Combe: Yes. And he was retiring. He was still in activity, but he was soon retiring, and he was walking from the University campus to his home, not far, a short walk. And he was killed by one of these...
Prabhupada: Naxalites.
Professor La Combe: Naxalites or somebody of the same kind. I don't know exactly. And he was not a politician at all. He had no political activities.
Devotee: Still, nowadays, they are having strikes every day, big marches, processions.
Professor La Combe: Oh, strikes, perhaps, yes, but no killings.
Devotee: And just before I left there they had a big strike where some of the younger communist kids, they got out in the street and they stopped all the buses, traffic and told the drivers to leave their cars. They burned a couple of cars and buses. But it is not as bad as it used to be.
Professor La Combe: Now it is better.
Prabhupada: Actually, there was no government.
Professor La Combe: At that time, yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: They lacked authority. In Vrndavana there has never been such kind of trouble.
Prabhupada: Yes. And the airport, these international flights, they are not going. They stop only to take petrol, and no passengers going. That has hampered very much India's tourist department. Because no respectable, respectable or nonrespect..., no airlines, just like BOAC and other big, big, they are not going. The minister of tourist department, he has several times requested that "You also come." There are no tourists coming in India.
Professor La Combe: Where is your matha in Vrndavana? In Vrndavana proper?
Prabhupada: Yes. You have been in Vrndavana?
Professor La Combe: Yes.
Prabhupada: Where did you stay?
Professor La Combe: I did not stay. I just visited, went around.
Prabhupada: I see.
Professor La Combe: And it was long ago.
Prabhupada: There is a place, Ramana-reti. Did you see that Oriental philosophical institution?
Professor La Combe: It was not yet started at that time.
Prabhupada: No, it was there. 1970. No, when you went to Vrndavana?
Professor La Combe: '36 or '37.
Prabhupada: '36? Oh, yes.
Professor La Combe: It was not started.
Prabhupada: :Yes. Ramana-reti, there is a road from Vrndavana to, connecting with the road from Delhi to Agra. That road is called Chattikara, Chattikara Road. So on that road we have got our temple. It is locally known as Ramana-reti.
Professor La Combe: After Mathura.
Prabhupada: After Mathura. It is Vrndavana, Vrndavana. There is a shortcut. Formerly... The road is very old road, from Delhi to Vrndavana, taking a turn at the place known as Chattikara. So on that road we are constructing our temple.
Professor La Combe: Constructing now?
Prabhupada: No, it is finished.
Professor La Combe: It is ancient? But you are...
Bhagavan: Do you have the photographs?
Yogesvara: Some slides somewhere.
Professor La Combe: But that is an old shrine. It is not a new establishment.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, formerly I was staying. I have got my place there also, one of the oldest temples, Radha-Damodara temple. Radha-Damodara. This temple was established by Jiva Gosvami. There are seven important temples: Govindaji's temple, Madana-Mohana, Radha-Damodara, Radha-Ramana, and Radha-Syamasundara.
Devotee: Radha-Giridhari.
Prabhupada: Not Giridhari. That is later.
Devotee: Radha-Gopinatha.
Prabhupada: Gopinatha, yes. So Gopinatha temple, Madana-Mohana temple, Radha-Damodara temple, Syamasundara and Gokulananda, Gokulananda. These are old seven temples. Later on, other big, big temples. Ranganatha temple and Gaekwad (?) temple, like that, Jaipur temple. They came into existence. But there are five thousand temples in Vrndavana's city, municipal area. Practically each house is a temple. In every house there is Radha-Krsna Deity and being worshiped by some devotees. The Arya-samaji movement... You know something about Arya-samaja?
Professor La Combe: Yes.
Prabhupada: Dayananda Sarasvati, he made vigorous propaganda against temple worship. Nobody cared. (laughs) Nobody...
Professor La Combe: Even now, nowadays, now they are...
Prabhupada: No, their influence is gone, Arya-samaja.
Professor La Combe: No, I mean the Arya-samaja is no more very active now.
Prabhupada: They cannot active, because whatever activity they had, they finished. The stock and energy is gone.
Professor La Combe: How long will you stay in Paris?
Prabhupada: I am going on Sunday morning.
Professor La Combe: To Frankfurt.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: And then you stay a little longer.
Prabhupada: I will stay there one week and then, on the 23rd...
Yogesvara: 26th.
Prabhupada: No, 23rd.
Satsvarupa: June 23rd we fly to Sydney. We stop in Bombay one day.
Professor La Combe: It will be very hot now in Bombay.
Prabhupada: Now it might be raining.
Professor La Combe: Yes, it might be raining.
Prabhupada: Because from 10th June monsoon begins. Bombay is not too hot as Vrndavana, as Vrndavana.
Professor La Combe: On account of the seashore.
Prabhupada: Ah. Vrndavana is very hot. Vrndavana is very hot.
Bhagavan: If you go back to India, you can..., you are welcome to stay in our temples.
Professor La Combe: In Vrndavana.
Bhagavan: In Vrndavana. We have Mayapura, near Navadvipa. And we also purchased some very nice land outside of Bombay. Juhu. Hyderabad and Calcutta.
Devotee: In Delhi also, we have a nice center.
Professor La Combe: What part of India?
Devotee: It's in West End. It is very close to the airport.
Professor La Combe: And in Calcutta?
Prabhupada: Yes. Near Park St., Camac St.
Professor La Combe: Camac St. I know.
Devotee: Very nice, old... It was called the Ray Castle. It used to be occupied by some governors. (Someone gives the professor some prasadam.)
Professor La Combe: Thank you very much. Just a little.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, during that time of the Naxalites you had mentioned that after that program, you said due to the effects of our program, it stopped all that Naxalite movement. Because very shortly after we had that pandal in the Maidan, the whole Naxalite movement was finished. You said due to that, because we purified the atmosphere.
Prabhupada: That's a fact.
Devotee: ...with chanting Hare Krsna. The government could do nothing. The police were helpless.
Professor La Combe: And the festival in Sydney will take a long time?
Yogesvara: Sydney festival is for how many days?
Prabhupada: On the 29th.
Yogesvara: One day, 29th of June. Ratha-yatra festival like in Jagannatha Puri.
Professor La Combe: Today it is better here, little warmer. (indistinct) unusually cool for this time.
Yogesvara: How are you feeling? When we went to visit you in your office, it wasn't sure whether you could come because you were not feeling very well.
Professor La Combe: I am not very well.
Prabhupada: What is your age?
Professor La Combe: I got cold.
Prabhupada: No, age.
Professor La Combe: Oh, I shall be seventy after three weeks.
Prabhupada: Oh. I am also seventy-eight. But your health is better than me. You have got your natural teeth?
Professor La Combe: Yes.
Prabhupada: Oh, then very good. (laughter)
Professor La Combe: This is a nice...
Prabhupada: Yes, this place is nice.
Professor La Combe: Nice view. Not too noisy. I wonder how. Because you are on the small street.
Bhagavan: Tonight Srila Prabhupada is giving conference at Salle Pleyal.
Professor La Combe: Yes, I know. Tonight. I have seen. This?
Prabhupada: This is a picture. I do not know wherefrom they have collected. (laughter)
Bhagavan: It is from Yogesvara.
Prabhupada: It is supposed that the gopis are looking to the picture of Krsna, is it not?
Professor La Combe: Yes. Very likely.
Prabhupada: But this picture also appears to be searching out Aniruddha.
Yogesvara: Usa.
Prabhupada: Usa, yes.
Yogesvara: Yes, that's right. She showed her a picture. Because she had never seen Aniruddha.
Prabhupada: She saw only in dream. So her friend Citralekha showed. She showed that "Find out whom you dreamed." Then she pointed out.
Professor La Combe: I remember that.
Prabhupada: Yes, in the Bhagavata.
Professor La Combe: I could not recognize from this...
Prabhupada: So immediately she brought from Dvaraka-dhama palace direct to the palace of Usa. What is called, the asura, what is his name?
Yogesvara: Bhaumasura.
Prabhupada: Bhaumasura, Banasura, Banasura. The picture, where is that picture, find out. Banasura. Banasura was appreciating, "Oh, very nice couple." But he had to challenge, "Why you have entered my palace and talking with my unmarried girl?"
Bhagavan: Yes. This is the Krsna Book that Srila Prabhupada has written. It is a summary of the Tenth Canto. And all these paintings, these are done by our artists in New York.
Professor La Combe: I'm afraid I should go now.
Jyotirmayi: Yes. Monsieur La Combe has a course.
Professor La Combe: Not a course, but a meeting. And as the traffic is rather thick now, it is better not to take a chance. I should not be late.
Prabhupada: All right. Thank you very much.
Professor La Combe: Thank you very much.
Prabhupada: Jaya Hare Krsna. [break]
Yogesvara: ...on a book. It is accepted as being authentic. All the universities use his texts. And he has a big office in the Sorbonne. The Sorbonne is the most famous French University.
Prabhupada: He is a big man.
Bhagavan: Actually, it's not famous. It's infamous.
Prabhupada: No, why infamous. They are famous. Why do you say infamous?
Bhagavan: Well, I thought fame is to be referred to for devotee.
Prabhupada: That is your sentiment, but practical world, he is a scholar, he is a head man of a department, a university. He must be famous.
Devotee: I just saw... Maybe you knew the latest headlines in the newspapers today were "President Nixon is found innocent."
Prabhupada: Oh, accha?
Devotee: They said he was found innocent.
Prabhupada: In the court?
Devotee: Yes. Because, you knew about the Watergate case. He was caught...
Yogesvara: Prabhupada knows the story. He knows the incident. He was found innocent by who? By court?
Devotee: Yes, by the whole government. He had done some cheating and campaign making secret tape recordings against the other party.
Prabhupada: He did? And still he is innocent?
Devotee: Yes. He paid so many millions, thousands and thousands of dollars. His party, the republican party, they put microphones and everything in the convention of the democrats and had spies and everything in order that he could find out their tricks. He had paid all these men and there were all fired.
Prabhupada: So that is not bad because in politics you have to do that. Everyone does so. What is Nixon's fault?
Devotee: But only he got caught. And all of his men quit.
Prabhupada: No, no, suppose you are my rival. So I wanted to know your secrecies. So I make some mechanical arrangement. That is not fault. That is not... Everyone does so. Why do you expect that he will not do that? He must do that. If you are my rival or enemy, to know your secrecy, I must endeavor to do everything. As you are doing, so I am.
Devotee: They were bribing men. They had paid them money and everything to do these things.
Prabhupada: Yes. So bribing men, everywhere it is going on.
Devotee: According to the American government it is illegal to... Each person has his own plans. And it is illegal to find out the other's. But now they said he is innocent.
Prabhupada: Court says.
Devotee: The United States government. They had a big trial and everything. So they found tapes and everything, but there was some missing tapes. They could not directly pin him for the whole thing. He said, "I didn't know anything about it." He says, "My men were just doing it. I never told them to do it. They did it on their own, for me. They liked me so much, they were just doing it. I never paid them."
Yogesvara: Isn't the ksatriya qualities that he is to be trustworthy?
Prabhupada: No. When there is political game, everyone does everything to gain his victory. In politics, these things are allowed. Just like killing, fighting, ksatriya's fighting. That killing is allowed. But killing is not allowed generally. Krsna has killed so many. If you take from moral point of view, He's sometimes immoral. He has killed His maternal uncle, Kamsa, and Sisupala, Sisupala, his cousin brother. And Balarama killed Rukma. Once He saved him, and another time, that Aniruddha's marriage, or something like that... Balarama killed Rukma, the brother of Rukmini. They were family relatives. But there was some misunderstanding in chess playing that other party, Rukma, he was cheating by tricks. The Balarama became so angry, they killed him. So in politics amongst the ksatriyas, these things are not uncommon.
Devotee: But isn't that not good because the politicians nowadays, when they are running their campaign, they say so many lies and everything to the public, that "When I am elected I will do this and I will do that," and they do so many... They pay off so many people in order that they can become elected. So always the good persons are... I guess they also have to cheat in order to get in position, but usually the...
Prabhupada: Therefore we have stopped our political activities. It is not good. It will be hampering to our spiritual understanding.
Devotee: Because we will also have to do that.
Prabhupada: If you want to dance, you cannot be shy. There is a Bengali proverb, nate vase gunthana tana (?). You understand Bengali? No. That, "When you are going to dance... A girl, or a lady is supposed to dance in the platform, in the stage, and when she came, she saw thousands of people. Then she drew her veil, what is called, gunthana, became little ashamed. So you are going to dance. What is the use of veiling yourself?" So similarly, when one takes part in politics, if you don't take all the tactics of politics, then you cannot gain ground.
Devotee: But more and more the people, especially in America, they are seeing how these politicians are cheating. Because every year, in every campaign, the same politician is saying, "I will do this, I will do that," and when he gets into office, he never does anything. But maybe now this time, when our Krsna conscious devotees are running and they are showing the people what rascals... Just like Balavanta on TV, he was saying "How can these people be leader, when they are themselves permitting slaughter, drinking, smoking, having illicit sex life."
Prabhupada: That is a fact. That is a fact. But why the leader? The public also drinks. They also encourage slaughterhouse. So if you say to the public that they cannot be leader, then there is no leader. They cannot find out any leader. The public will understand that "I also eat meat, I also drink, do the same thing. Why the leader should be something, saintly person? After all, he is our leader. So we are of the same character. So why the leader should be something different?" They cannot understand it.
Devotee: Therefore we must cheat.
Prabhupada: Yes. Suppose I am thief and somebody accuses you that "He is a thief." So I don't take it seriously because I know, "I am also thief." Means these appeal, that does not appeal because "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If everyone is thief, if you point out somebody that "He is thief, he cannot be trusted," then he knows that "I am also thief. It is not a big problem. I am also thief." Unless the whole public is sinless, he cannot appreciate a sinless leader. Care care mastado bhai (?). This is natural. If I am thief, so what is the use of accusing you by other, "He is also thief." You'll take that "We all are thieves, all cousin brothers; so why this man should be only accused?"
Pusta-krsna: Is it not a vicious circle, though. Without a pure leader, they cannot be pure themselves.
Prabhupada: But they cannot understand. The vicious circle, they will not be able to understand. Because he is also vicious.
Devotee: Therefore just like Krsna during the battle of Kuruksetra, he told Arjuna to do so many things. He told Yudhisthira to lie. When he said, "Asvatthama has been killed," he said Asvatthama, the elephant, he said the elephant...
Prabhupada: Yes, that was a tactics. So...
Devotee: And also when Karna... Arjuna killed Karna when he was off his chariot.
Prabhupada: The difficulty is, "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." Better you keep yourself ideal character that people can see that "Here is an ideal group of men." Otherwise, in politics... They are feeling the necessity of an honest leader, but they are themself dishonest, they people. So when you point out that "This leader is dishonest," they do not very much appreciate. There is a story in this connection I will tell you, that one man was drunkard. So his friend said, "You are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father also drinks." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "My mother also drinks." "Oh, she will also go to hell." In this way, all the family members, they scrutinizingly studying, that all of them were drunkards. You see? Then the man who was accused of drinking, he said, "If everyone is going to hell, then hell is heaven. (laughter) Because my father is going there, mother is going there, my brother is going there, I shall go there. It is heaven. Where is hell?"
Devotee: Heaven is where all my friends are.
Prabhupada: So this is the position. As soon as you point out, "This man is dishonest," and you scrutinize, everyone is dishonest, then where is dishonesty? It is all honesty. Because if the whole business is dishonesty, so there is no question of honesty? Let it go on. That is the public opinion. Why one should be unnecessarily honest? If the whole world is dishonest, and the dishonest world is going on, then where is the harm? What is the use of becoming... The same thing: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss."
Jyotirmayi: That is exactly what people are saying now. They say "What's the use of being organized and good and sane? Everybody is dishonest now."
Bhagavan: We have to give them a place to go where they can come if they want.
Prabhupada: Just like Pariksit Maharaja gave Kali four places. He could not find out. First of all he gave him four places, that "These four places you can go." But he could not find out such place. So he was embarrassed. So now there is no question of finding out. Everywhere you go, the same four principles. Formerly, it was very difficult to find out a place where these things are going on. Now everywhere you go, these four things are main principles of life. So therefore they cannot very much appreciate these prohibitory principles, that "What is wrong there?"
Devotee: It is just the opposite now. Now there is no place where Maharaja Pariksit can go to find out a spiritual atmosphere.
Prabhupada: Yes. Some of our men, at least one, left our association. He thought that "This is denying the primary necessities of life." Rayarama, Rayarama. He left for this reason, that we do not allow the bare necessities of life. Illicit sex, intoxication... He was first-class criminal on this account, but he could not give it up. Therefore he left.
Devotee: Yes, I spoke with him in San Francisco, and he said, "Swamiji will not be successful because he does not allow free love in his movement." He says, "That is why I had to leave because there was no place for me and my boyfriend." Even he was not attracted to having a girl, but he had a boy. That boy used to be also your typist. He was from Harvard University.
Prabhupada: That Neil.
Devotee: Yeah, Neil.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Devotee: And he told me that "Swamiji will not be successful in his movement because he will not allow free love." I just saw him in San Francisco before I went to India two and a half years ago. We were trying to get him to come back to the temple.
Prabhupada: No, he cannot give up these bad habits.
Pusta-krsna: You said in Geneva that no one has died from giving up cigarettes or illicit sex. So it is not so hard to do.
Prabhupada: No, it is not hard. Now the Christian church is giving liberty, man to man marriage. Most unnatural.
Devotee: Previously they didn't allow divorce. The first principle was there is no question of divorce. Then so many people began leaving the Catholic Church. So then they allowed divorce. And then they did not allow abortion. So again so many people left the religion. Now they allow abortion. And now they are allowing man to man marriage.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Devotee: They compromise just to keep their followers.
Bhagavan: It's a matter of money.
Prabhupada: And that is freedom. So Raya Ramananda left because such freedom is not allowed here. So we have to allow this freedom like the church? (laughs)
Bhargava: There was one survey done by a college, a university, Michigan State, and Rupanuga Maharaja researched it and said 94% of the people in America, they believe there is a God, but only 35% will go to church. They are not very much interested in the churches anymore. They don't trust them. But 94% believe there is God.
Prabhupada: Because the church could not help them in understanding God. The Christian church has no idea what is God. Therefore there is no name of God. Actually, they have no idea about God. Is there?
Devotee: I was raised up a very strict Catholic, going through Catholic school till I was fifteen years old, but I could not... They were trying to teach love of God, but I could not see that they were also loving God. Even the head priest, he was found having illicit sex relationships with one of the young nuns, and she became pregnant by that and he had to leave. They quietly sent him away without anybody knowing, but later on it came out.
Prabhupada: That is going on everywhere.
Devotee: And I saw, "What is the point? They are not even loving God." They were teaching loving God, but I could not see it.
Prabhupada: He said that Vivekananda was doing that. You said? Just tell him.
Nitai: That once I met a little old lady on the streets of Denver when I was distributing books.
Prabhupada: Old lady.
Nitai: Very old. She was walking down the street. She was all bent over. And she asked me what I was doing, and I showed her our magazine and explained that we were teaching Krsna consciousness, and she said, "Oh, is this yoga? I remember way back when Vivekananda came here. Have you ever heard of him?" So we began talking about Vivekananda. She said that she was there when he made his tour. She was in Denver when he made his tour of the United States, and that he stopped there for one week and lectured. And she went there to see that meeting, but she said that all in all she was disgusted with him because he was so much attracted to the women. She said that he was victimized by the women. They were all trying to get him, and she said so when he went back to India he was a broken man.
Prabhupada: Yes, he took with him three women. One of them was Sister Nivedita.
Devotee: Also you told us in India about Aurobindo and Ramakrishna. Aurobindo went also. Aurobindo, when that French woman came, he also fell to her, but just to cover it up he has called her "Mother" because in India, when you call someone "Mother..."
Prabhupada: No, everyone knows he is mother and he is father.
Devotee: Yeah, right. And they don't think... There is no question of sex. When they think of mother and father, they don't think of these things. Also with Ramakrishna. He also had his divine mother. You told us a story in Calcutta that he was very debauched. In a village he used to chase the young women. And his brother actually made him famous.
Prabhupada: It is very difficult to, not to be victimized by woman. It is very difficult.
Yogesvara: Unless you are victimized by Krsna first.
Prabhupada: Yes. One who is, I means, what is called, captivated by the beauty of Krsna, then he is not victimized.
yad-avadhi mama cetah krsna-padaravinde
nava-nava-rasa-dhamany udyatam rantum asit
tad-avadhi bata nari-sangame smaryamane
bhavati mukha-vikarah susthu nisthivanam ca
Madana-mohana. Madana-dahana and Madana-mohana. Unless one is captivated by the beauty of Krsna he will be troubled by the arrows of the Cupid. Madana-dahana. The Cupid is known. He has got arrow. If it pierces, then he becomes victim.
Yogesvara: You didn't find it necessary to enter into any kind of discussion with this French Professor just now. There was no real discussion of philosophy. I was wondering why that didn't happen.
Prabhupada: He did not raise any question. And he is simply translator. He has no philosophy. I asked him "Which philosophy you are...?" "So I make comparative study." I think he did not like to enter into philosophical... Is it not?
Devotee: Most of these gentlemen who come here, when they see you and begin talking with you, like you said, they show their ignorance when they begin to speak. So they prefer not to speak. They always make some excuse that they have an appointment because they know that if they speak, they will be in real trouble.
Prabhupada: Yes. Tavac ca sobhate murkhah yavat kincin na bhasate (?): "A foolish man is very nice as long as he does not speak. As soon as he will speak, his foolishness will be captured." So therefore, sometimes they do not like to talk. Remain as a nice man, (laughs) without being discovered.
Devotee: I think maybe the first gentleman who was here, who said... He was talking about experiencing God... He says, "Actually I experienced God, but actually God is beyond my experience." You gave him such a hard time that I think he must have made phone calls to all these other men, "Be careful of Bhaktivedanta Swami. He is very dangerous." (laughter)
Prabhupada: I told him that you have no experience.
Devotee: He turned so red when you said, "But how were you saying you are having experience, and you just said God is beyond your experience." And then he says, "I never said that. You put those words into my mouth." I whispered in his ear, "We have it on tape. We will play it back for you." (laughter)
Prabhupada: Oh. We have got Krsna. We are not afraid in challenging anyone. I believe on that formula. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. I believe that verse very strongly, that anyone who has not surrendered to Krsna or is not Krsna conscious, he must be within this list: duskrtina, mudha, naradhama, mayayapahrta-jnana, asuram bhavam asritah. That's all. I have explained that verse little elaborately. Read it. It is very interesting. Where is Satsvarupa?
Bhagavan: He is in the other room. Would you like him to come in?
Nitai:
na mam duskrtino mudhah
prapadyante naradhamah
mayayapahrta-jnana
asuram bhavam asritah
[Bg. 7.15]
"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me." It is said in the Bhagavad-gita that simply by surrendering oneself unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality Krsna, one can surmount the stringent laws of material nature. At this point a question rises. How is it that educated philosophers, scientists, businessmen, administrators and all the leaders of ordinary men do not surrender unto the lotus... [break] ...Manu, Vyasa, Devala, Asita, Janaka, Prahlada, Bali, and later on, Madhvacarya, Ramanujacarya, Sri Caitanya and many others who are faithful philosophers, politicians, educators, and scientists etc. surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Person, the all-powerful authority. Those who are not actually philosophers, scientists, educators, administrators, etc., but who pose themselves as such for material gain, do not accept the plan or path of the Supreme Lord. They have no idea of God. They simply manufacture their own worldly plans and consequently complicate the problems of material..."
Prabhupada: Everyone comes, they say, "Why people are suffering?" They are concerned with the people suffering. Actually not. That is a plea only, as if he has taken the task of minimizing the suffering of humanity. He poses himself as very philanthropist. Actually, he cannot do anything.
Nitai: "Because material energy, nature, is so powerful, it can resist the unauthorized plans of the atheists and baffle the knowledge of the planning commissions. The atheistic planmakers are described herein by the word duskrtina, or miscreant. Krtina means one who has performed meritorious work. The atheistic planmaker is sometimes very intelligent and meritorious also because any gigantic plan, good or bad, must take intelligence to execute. But because the atheist brain is improperly utilized in opposing the plan of the Supreme Lord, the atheistic planmaker is called duskrtina, which indicates that his intelligence and efforts are misdirected. In the Gita it is clearly mentioned that material energy works fully under the direction..."
Prabhupada: Just like in Paris, these nice buildings, nice parks, nice everything -- they require brain. There is no doubt about it. But they have been used for woman and wine. That's all. That is their... He have come. People come to see Paris just for that... What is that theater?
Bhagavan: Folies Bergere.
Prabhupada: Yes. And we have heard from our childhood that Paris is a place where people can go and enjoy prostitution. When we were children. I told you last night. So this city is undoubtedly constructed with good merit, but it is used for sinful act... Nobody goes to... Beautiful church, nobody goes there. But beautiful, that theater, because there is naked dance, everyone goes. And therefore duskrtina. Church is vacant. Only the tourists come to see the churches. Not that such a important city, always glorification of Lord is going on. Just like we are trying to do. Take prasadam, worship the Deity, chant Hare Krsna. That would have been the activities of these beautiful churches, but there is no such activity, because people are duskrtina. They have got merit, to construct very nice wonderful buildings, but it is meant for sinful activities: illicit sex, intoxication, gambling and so on. And poor women, they are victimized by these rascals. That's all. Then.
Nitai: (reading) "In the Gita it is clearly mentioned that material energy works fully under the direction of the Supreme Lord. It has no independent authority. It works as the shadow moves in accordance with the movements of the object, but still, material energy is very powerful, and the atheist, due to his godless temperament, cannot know how it works, nor can he know the plan of the Supreme Lord. Under illusion and the modes of passion and ignorance, all his plans are baffled, as in the case of Hiranyakasipu and Ravana, whose plans were smashed to dust although they were both materially learned as scientists, philosophers, administrators and educators. These duskrtinas or miscreants are of four different patterns as outlined below. Number one. The mudhas: those who are grossly foolish like hard working beasts of burden. They want to enjoy the fruits of their labor by themselves and do not want to part with them for the Supreme. The typical example of the beast of burden is the ass. This humble beast is made to work very hard by his master. The ass does not really know for whom he works so hard day and night. He remains satisfied by filling his stomach with a bundle of grass, sleeping for a while under fear of being beaten by the master, and satisfying his sex appetite at the risk of being repeatedly kicked by the opposite party. The ass sings poetry and philosophy sometimes, but this braying only disturbs others. This is the position of the foolish fruitive worker who does not know for whom he should work. He does not know that karma, action, is meant for yajna, sacrifice. Most often, those who work very hard day and night to clear the burden of self-created duties say that they have no time to hear of the immortality of the living being. To such mudhas, material gains, which are destructible, are life's all in all, despite the fact that the mudhas enjoy only a very small fraction of the fruit of labor. Sometimes they spend sleepless days and nights for fruitive gain, and although they may have ulcers or indigestion, they are satisfied with practically no food. They are simply absorbed in working hard day and night for the benefit of illusory masters. Ignorant of their real master, the foolish workers waste their valuable time serving mammon. Unfortunately, they never surrender to the supreme master of all masters, not do they take time to hear of Him from the proper sources."
Prabhupada: Generally, we see now, especially in the western countries, they are working so hard. The master is wine and woman. That's all. Is it not? They have made their master wine and women. In Paris we see everywhere. On the street they are drinking and talking. In Germany also, I have seen. You have been in Germany?
Devotee: Amsterdam is the same way.
Prabhupada: Amsterdam is a place simply for prostitutes.
Devotee: It is the center.
Prabhupada: This is very prominent in the western country, which we are asking, that no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex. These things are only thing enjoyable.
Satsvarupa: They think if you eliminate those, there is nothing left to live for.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is Rayarama's statement. Yes. I am denying the bare necessities of life. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Who will try for becoming perfect in this way? Very disappointing. But still, Krsna is so kind that helping so many. They are doing actually. All right, keep it.
Pusta-krsna: Lord Caitanya's program is so attractive that even...
Prabhupada: That is the astonishment. In India, they give me credit this, that "How it has become possible that these European boys, American boys and girls, they have taken to this path?" That they are surprised.
Yogesvara: We don't have a very good reputation in India?
Prabhupada: Very good reputation that you have become perfectly Vaisnava.
Devotee: No, he means the western people themselves.
Prabhupada: "They must be cynic, crazy, another edition of hippies." Like that, they say like that.
Devotee: They think that... They won't allow even a westerner to marry their daughter, because the westerners have a reputation of marrying for a week and then flying away. So they think like that of the people. Even our own men, sometimes the Indian girls wanted to marry the brahmacaris, the American brahmacaris, but the parents would not allow because they said, "After you are married a week, he will just run away back to his country and leave you here." So they are thinking like that about the westerners, that they, the life is so fast.
Pusta-krsna: Another brahmacari saved.
Prabhupada: One of our man has done so. You know that Ramanuja? The Mexican boy?
Devotee: There's that boy in Bombay he married one Indian girl.
Prabhupada: He is staying.
Devotee: Jagat-purusa.
Prabhupada: He has not left as yet. But he can leave any moment. (laughs) No. He is not American. He is devotee. Therefore he is reliable. (pause)
Bhagavan: We have to arrange a few things.
Prabhupada: What is the next program? Is there any program?
Yogesvara: A big hall meeting.
Prabhupada: Today.
Bhagavan: Tonight.
Prabhupada: What time?
Bhagavan: 8 o'clock. You will be speaking around 8:30.
Prabhupada: All right. (end)
Bhagavan: Yale University. I think you are familiar with Yale University in the United States. They have already placed advanced order for all these volumes. (French)
Prabhupada: We are translating the Srimad-Bhagavatam and other Vedic literature. You have seen the sample, original verse, word to word meaning, then translation, then giving a purport.
Professor La Combe: You wrote the commentary.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: What is the parampara from Caitanya?
Prabhupada: From Caitanya Mahaprabhu? Yes. The Six Gosvamis: Rupa, Sanatana, Bhatta Raghunatha, Sri Jiva, Gopala Bhatta, Dasa Raghunatha. The Six Gosvamis. Then from the Gosvamis there is Srinivasacarya. Then from him, I think, this Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, and then Narottama dasa Thakura. Then Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, then Jagannatha dasa Babaji, then Bhaktivinoda Thakura, then Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji Maharaja, then my Guru Maharaja. Next we are. I am the tenth or eleventh, eleventh from Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Professor La Combe: And you have come to a round visit to the west now?
Prabhupada: I have come several times.
Professor La Combe: Yes, but this time.
Prabhupada: This time, yes, just to see my centers. I have got many...
Professor La Combe: This is your Paris establishment?
Prabhupada: Yes, Paris establishment, yes.
Professor La Combe: Formerly you were in the south of..., in the banlieu (suburbs).
Jyotirmayi: Yes, before.
French Devotee: At Fontenay-aux-Rose.
Jyotirmayi: One year ago we came here in Paris.
Professor La Combe: It's more noisy and..., but its more easy and more convenient. When was this Paris center started?
Jyotirmayi: It started four years ago.
Professor La Combe: And this is your first visit to this center?
Prabhupada: No, this is the fourth visit.
Professor La Combe: Fourth visit, every year.
Prabhupada: Yes. Last year also, I came. I installed the Deity.
Professor La Combe: You now come right from Vrndavana or...?
Prabhupada: Yes, I am coming from Vrndavana of course, via Delhi. Then Rome, then Geneva, then Paris. Then I shall go to Frankfurt. And from there I shall go to Sydney, Australia.
Professor La Combe: Oh, this is not the direct way.
Bhagavan: We have a Ratha-yatra Festival. You have heard of this festival, from Jagannatha Puri.
Professor La Combe: Yes, of course. I have been there.
Bhagavan: We have this festival in very big, in the same scale, in Australia, London, San Francisco, Chicago.
Prabhupada: Where is that poster? Australia? Yes.
Bhagavan: And in all these cities we are joined... In San Francisco there are ten thousand people who come at least every year to help pull the carts and chant Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: In Chicago also. Philadelphia. There will be Ratha-yatra. this is the...
Satsvarupa: This is for Melbourne, Australia, Ratha-yatra parade, (shows a poster), picture of the parade last year.
Professor La Combe: Last year.
Prabhupada: No, this year they are advertising.
Professor La Combe: Which is to come.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Satsvarupa: This is a poster that Hamsaduta sent for Frankfurt for next week.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. This is German language.
Professor La Combe: And all is in the vicinity of Frankfurt.
Prabhupada: Yes. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu predicted. You understand little Bengali? Do you understand...
Professor La Combe: Bengali not... Sanskrit, but not...
Prabhupada: The Bengali words,
prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama
sarvatra pracara haibe mora nama
Prthivite -- this is Sanskrit -- "all over the world;" ache, "there are;" yata, "as many;" nagaradi grama, nagara, "towns...,"
Professor La Combe: Cities and villages.
Prabhupada: Cities, yes, villages; sarvatra...,
Professor La Combe: Everywhere.
Prabhupada: "everywhere;" pracara, "propaganda" or "publicity," pracara; haibe, "there will be;" mora nama, Caitanya Mahaprabhu's name. So now it is being so. All over the world we have got branches, and they know Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna movement means Caitanya Mahaprabhu's. So that is being now propagated.
prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama
sarvatra pracara haibe mora nama
Professor La Combe: I understand.
Prabhupada: So He predicted and by His great will it is being propagated.
Professor La Combe: How many officials (?) are there?
Prabhupada: We have got about hundred branches, and each branch, there are not less than twenty-five up to 250. So average, if you take one hundred, then it is ten thousand, yes. And all of them are young, within thirty, within thirty. So... And they are trying to understand the philosophy very nicely, even these girls. She knows. In India, even the big, big learned scholars, they are-Indian scholar, I mean -- they were surprised when some of my students, the young students, girls and boys, were speaking in Navadvipa.
Professor La Combe: You have all been to India?
Bhagavan: Not all. Some of us.
Professor La Combe: Not all. Some of you.
Bhagavan: We have a very big center in Mayapura.
Prabhupada: Navadvipa, the birthplace of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Professor La Combe: I have been in Navadvipa.
Prabhupada: I see.
Professor La Combe: Long ago in 1936.
Prabhupada: 1936. Did you see my Guru Maharaja?
Professor La Combe: No.
Prabhupada: No. He passed away in 1936 in December, in December.
Professor La Combe: No, I have not seen him. Probably he was already ill or... He was ill.
Prabhupada: Bhaktisiddhanta Saras... That is the photograph of my guru. His Guru Maharaja and his Guru Maharaja...
Professor La Combe: And so on.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is parampara. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Bhagavad-gita. Find out this.
Professor La Combe: And how do you...? It was one of your pupils who spoke about Ramanuja.
Prabhupada: Yes, Ramanuja. He belongs to the Sri-sampradaya.
Professor La Combe: Yes. But there is a connection.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. All the Vaisnava acaryas, they are connected. Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnu Svami, Nimbarka. So we belong to Madhvacarya. Caitanya Mahaprabhu belonged to Madhvacarya. Madhvacarya was direct disciple of Vyasadeva, and by parampara, Madhavendra Puri. Then from Madhavendra Puri, Isvara Puri. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu accepted Isvara Puri as His spiritual master. So we belong to this Madhvacarya-sampradaya, Madhvacarya-sampradaya or Brahma-sampradaya. The sampradaya, the disciplic succession, is coming from Lord Brahma. Brahma's disciple is Narada. Narada's disciple is Vyasadeva. And Vyasadeva's disciple is Madhvacarya. And from Madhvacarya, Madhavendra Puri, Isvara Puri. Then Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Then we are, Caitan..., like that.
Professor La Combe: One of you mentioned, because I had made a translation of the beginning of the Sri-bhasya, Ramanuja.
Prabhupada: Accha. Sri-bhasya, Bhagavad-gita?
Professor La Combe: No. The Sri-bhasya, the Brahma-sutra bhasya. Unfortunately, it is out of print.
Prabhupada: I see.
Professor La Combe: So one of you, I think...
Devotee: (indistinct)
Professor La Combe: You can read it in the library, but unfortunately, it is out of print. Yes. It is a complete translation of the first part you see. 850 pages with the text and notes.
Prabhupada: Oh. I see. Just like we do text and transliteration?
Professor La Combe: The text is in nagari.
Bhagavan: There are synonyms in your translation? Do you give the synonym for the word?
Prabhupada: Equivalent.
Satsvarupa: His style here. Prabhupada gives the Bengali...
Professor La Combe: Transliteration? No, no, there is no transliteration.
Satsvarupa: Translation, purport or notes.
Professor La Combe: No, there is only translation and notes. But some of the synonyms are in the notes. And the purport also comes in in the notes when necessary.
Bhagavan: You are teaching a course now?
Professor La Combe: I finished. The year is finished.
Bhagavan: Yes. You were teaching a course?
Professor La Combe: Not on this...
Bhagavan: What was the name of that course?
Jyotirmayi: He was teaching the Tenth Canto.
Professor La Combe: Comparative philosophy, the Indian branch.
Jyotirmayi: But this year you were teaching the Tenth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam.
Professor La Combe: Yes. That was one of them actually, with other courses. But I am retiring, finished, you see. I retire to come...
Prabhupada: So comparative philosophy, Mayavada, that Advaita-vada, Dvaita-vada, Visistadvaita. Which of them you like? Or you remain simply student? You remain neutral or you like some philosophy?
Professor La Combe: I try to be objective, but not neutral. I have more personal affinity with Sankara, er, with Ramanuja than with Sankara.
Prabhupada: No, Ramanuja...
Bhagavan: Personal attraction.
Professor La Combe: Yes. Although, of course, I try... I have written another book on Sankara and Ramanuja compared, you see.
Prabhupada: I see.
Professor La Combe: The notions of Brahman and atman both in Sankara and Ramanuja. That one is not of out of print. It is called in French L'Absolute selons les Vedanta.
Prabhupada: But Sankaracarya has accepted Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sa bhagavan svayam krsnah devaki-putrah. He has written like that in his comment on Bhagavad-gita.
Professor La Combe: Bhagavad-gita, yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. So... And all the acaryas, Vaisnava acaryas, they accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So practically, amongst the authorities, Indian acaryas, everyone accepts Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Ramanujacarya has written his bhasya on Bhagavad-gita.
Professor La Combe: I read it. And Sankara's also, both.
Prabhupada: Ramanujacarya has not written. Sankara has written. Sariraka-bhasya, Vedanta-sutra. He has written comment on Bhagavad-gita.
Professor La Combe: Yes, and Ramanuja.
Prabhupada: Ramanujacarya also. Also Sridhara Svami. Sridhara Svami he has written. He belongs to Visnu Svami-sampradaya. And our Gaudiya-Vaisnava, Visvanatha Cakravarti, he has written comments. And Baladeva Vidyabhusana, Bhaktivinoda Thakura.
Professor La Combe: Oh yes, there is long list of commentaries on the Gita.
Prabhupada: Yes. There are ten tikas.
Professor La Combe: This is published?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: Where is it printed?
Bhagavan: It is printed in Japan. And we have our publishing house in New York.
Professor La Combe: This is the second volume of the first..., Adi-lila.
Prabhupada: Yes. Adi-lila, yes.
Bhagavan: You are familiar with Caitanya Mahaprabhu's philosophy?
Professor La Combe: Yes. You see, I started Sanskrit and Indian studies in 1929 when we were abroad.
Prabhupada: You have been in India several times.
Professor La Combe: Many times, yes.
Prabhupada: Where did you stay generally?
Professor La Combe: In several places, but mainly in Calcutta. But in many other places too.
Prabhupada: Calcutta where?
Professor La Combe: Park Mansions, Park St., near Asiatic Society.
Prabhupada: Park St. Asiatic Society. Yes, I know that. It is just on the junction of Park St. and Chowringhee. Calcutta is my birthplace.
Professor La Combe: You were born in Calcutta.
Prabhupada: Yes. All our former relatives, they are in Calcutta.
Professor La Combe: Even now.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: I think the situation is better now in Calcutta, improving.
Prabhupada: Yes, little better.
Professor La Combe: Because my last visit there was in 1970 and it was the worst moment. But I hear that it is improving.
Prabhupada: Improving, yes. Just near that Asiatic Society we held our Hare Krsna Festival in front of, I think, the museum.
Professor La Combe: Yes, on Chowringhee.
Prabhupada: Yes, and it was very successful. Daily, thirty thousand people were assembling.
Professor La Combe: This year?
Prabhupada: No. (break in tape) ...God conscious. So the leaders suppressing. This is the present position. The leaders are more or less communists, and they are suppressing their natural outflow and that is the position now.
Professor La Combe: But I think that nowadays the situation in Calcutta is better. You would not have the same kind of difficulties this year I suppose.
Prabhupada: No, it is easier now. In 1970, '69 there was no security. When you go out, there is no security whether you'll come back. Yes. You were at that time there? No.
Devotee: No, I arrived there just after. I arrived in Bombay when that was happening. The Naxalites...
Prabhupada: Any man walking on the street can be killed. It was the situation.
Devotee: Especially any rich man or politician.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: The Vice Chancellor of Jadavpur University was killed the day before I arrived in Calcutta.
Prabhupada: Old gentleman?
Professor La Combe: Yes. And he was retiring. He was still in activity, but he was soon retiring, and he was walking from the University campus to his home, not far, a short walk. And he was killed by one of these...
Prabhupada: Naxalites.
Professor La Combe: Naxalites or somebody of the same kind. I don't know exactly. And he was not a politician at all. He had no political activities.
Devotee: Still, nowadays, they are having strikes every day, big marches, processions.
Professor La Combe: Oh, strikes, perhaps, yes, but no killings.
Devotee: And just before I left there they had a big strike where some of the younger communist kids, they got out in the street and they stopped all the buses, traffic and told the drivers to leave their cars. They burned a couple of cars and buses. But it is not as bad as it used to be.
Professor La Combe: Now it is better.
Prabhupada: Actually, there was no government.
Professor La Combe: At that time, yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: They lacked authority. In Vrndavana there has never been such kind of trouble.
Prabhupada: Yes. And the airport, these international flights, they are not going. They stop only to take petrol, and no passengers going. That has hampered very much India's tourist department. Because no respectable, respectable or nonrespect..., no airlines, just like BOAC and other big, big, they are not going. The minister of tourist department, he has several times requested that "You also come." There are no tourists coming in India.
Professor La Combe: Where is your matha in Vrndavana? In Vrndavana proper?
Prabhupada: Yes. You have been in Vrndavana?
Professor La Combe: Yes.
Prabhupada: Where did you stay?
Professor La Combe: I did not stay. I just visited, went around.
Prabhupada: I see.
Professor La Combe: And it was long ago.
Prabhupada: There is a place, Ramana-reti. Did you see that Oriental philosophical institution?
Professor La Combe: It was not yet started at that time.
Prabhupada: No, it was there. 1970. No, when you went to Vrndavana?
Professor La Combe: '36 or '37.
Prabhupada: '36? Oh, yes.
Professor La Combe: It was not started.
Prabhupada: :Yes. Ramana-reti, there is a road from Vrndavana to, connecting with the road from Delhi to Agra. That road is called Chattikara, Chattikara Road. So on that road we have got our temple. It is locally known as Ramana-reti.
Professor La Combe: After Mathura.
Prabhupada: After Mathura. It is Vrndavana, Vrndavana. There is a shortcut. Formerly... The road is very old road, from Delhi to Vrndavana, taking a turn at the place known as Chattikara. So on that road we are constructing our temple.
Professor La Combe: Constructing now?
Prabhupada: No, it is finished.
Professor La Combe: It is ancient? But you are...
Bhagavan: Do you have the photographs?
Yogesvara: Some slides somewhere.
Professor La Combe: But that is an old shrine. It is not a new establishment.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, formerly I was staying. I have got my place there also, one of the oldest temples, Radha-Damodara temple. Radha-Damodara. This temple was established by Jiva Gosvami. There are seven important temples: Govindaji's temple, Madana-Mohana, Radha-Damodara, Radha-Ramana, and Radha-Syamasundara.
Devotee: Radha-Giridhari.
Prabhupada: Not Giridhari. That is later.
Devotee: Radha-Gopinatha.
Prabhupada: Gopinatha, yes. So Gopinatha temple, Madana-Mohana temple, Radha-Damodara temple, Syamasundara and Gokulananda, Gokulananda. These are old seven temples. Later on, other big, big temples. Ranganatha temple and Gaekwad (?) temple, like that, Jaipur temple. They came into existence. But there are five thousand temples in Vrndavana's city, municipal area. Practically each house is a temple. In every house there is Radha-Krsna Deity and being worshiped by some devotees. The Arya-samaji movement... You know something about Arya-samaja?
Professor La Combe: Yes.
Prabhupada: Dayananda Sarasvati, he made vigorous propaganda against temple worship. Nobody cared. (laughs) Nobody...
Professor La Combe: Even now, nowadays, now they are...
Prabhupada: No, their influence is gone, Arya-samaja.
Professor La Combe: No, I mean the Arya-samaja is no more very active now.
Prabhupada: They cannot active, because whatever activity they had, they finished. The stock and energy is gone.
Professor La Combe: How long will you stay in Paris?
Prabhupada: I am going on Sunday morning.
Professor La Combe: To Frankfurt.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor La Combe: And then you stay a little longer.
Prabhupada: I will stay there one week and then, on the 23rd...
Yogesvara: 26th.
Prabhupada: No, 23rd.
Satsvarupa: June 23rd we fly to Sydney. We stop in Bombay one day.
Professor La Combe: It will be very hot now in Bombay.
Prabhupada: Now it might be raining.
Professor La Combe: Yes, it might be raining.
Prabhupada: Because from 10th June monsoon begins. Bombay is not too hot as Vrndavana, as Vrndavana.
Professor La Combe: On account of the seashore.
Prabhupada: Ah. Vrndavana is very hot. Vrndavana is very hot.
Bhagavan: If you go back to India, you can..., you are welcome to stay in our temples.
Professor La Combe: In Vrndavana.
Bhagavan: In Vrndavana. We have Mayapura, near Navadvipa. And we also purchased some very nice land outside of Bombay. Juhu. Hyderabad and Calcutta.
Devotee: In Delhi also, we have a nice center.
Professor La Combe: What part of India?
Devotee: It's in West End. It is very close to the airport.
Professor La Combe: And in Calcutta?
Prabhupada: Yes. Near Park St., Camac St.
Professor La Combe: Camac St. I know.
Devotee: Very nice, old... It was called the Ray Castle. It used to be occupied by some governors. (Someone gives the professor some prasadam.)
Professor La Combe: Thank you very much. Just a little.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, during that time of the Naxalites you had mentioned that after that program, you said due to the effects of our program, it stopped all that Naxalite movement. Because very shortly after we had that pandal in the Maidan, the whole Naxalite movement was finished. You said due to that, because we purified the atmosphere.
Prabhupada: That's a fact.
Devotee: ...with chanting Hare Krsna. The government could do nothing. The police were helpless.
Professor La Combe: And the festival in Sydney will take a long time?
Yogesvara: Sydney festival is for how many days?
Prabhupada: On the 29th.
Yogesvara: One day, 29th of June. Ratha-yatra festival like in Jagannatha Puri.
Professor La Combe: Today it is better here, little warmer. (indistinct) unusually cool for this time.
Yogesvara: How are you feeling? When we went to visit you in your office, it wasn't sure whether you could come because you were not feeling very well.
Professor La Combe: I am not very well.
Prabhupada: What is your age?
Professor La Combe: I got cold.
Prabhupada: No, age.
Professor La Combe: Oh, I shall be seventy after three weeks.
Prabhupada: Oh. I am also seventy-eight. But your health is better than me. You have got your natural teeth?
Professor La Combe: Yes.
Prabhupada: Oh, then very good. (laughter)
Professor La Combe: This is a nice...
Prabhupada: Yes, this place is nice.
Professor La Combe: Nice view. Not too noisy. I wonder how. Because you are on the small street.
Bhagavan: Tonight Srila Prabhupada is giving conference at Salle Pleyal.
Professor La Combe: Yes, I know. Tonight. I have seen. This?
Prabhupada: This is a picture. I do not know wherefrom they have collected. (laughter)
Bhagavan: It is from Yogesvara.
Prabhupada: It is supposed that the gopis are looking to the picture of Krsna, is it not?
Professor La Combe: Yes. Very likely.
Prabhupada: But this picture also appears to be searching out Aniruddha.
Yogesvara: Usa.
Prabhupada: Usa, yes.
Yogesvara: Yes, that's right. She showed her a picture. Because she had never seen Aniruddha.
Prabhupada: She saw only in dream. So her friend Citralekha showed. She showed that "Find out whom you dreamed." Then she pointed out.
Professor La Combe: I remember that.
Prabhupada: Yes, in the Bhagavata.
Professor La Combe: I could not recognize from this...
Prabhupada: So immediately she brought from Dvaraka-dhama palace direct to the palace of Usa. What is called, the asura, what is his name?
Yogesvara: Bhaumasura.
Prabhupada: Bhaumasura, Banasura, Banasura. The picture, where is that picture, find out. Banasura. Banasura was appreciating, "Oh, very nice couple." But he had to challenge, "Why you have entered my palace and talking with my unmarried girl?"
Bhagavan: Yes. This is the Krsna Book that Srila Prabhupada has written. It is a summary of the Tenth Canto. And all these paintings, these are done by our artists in New York.
Professor La Combe: I'm afraid I should go now.
Jyotirmayi: Yes. Monsieur La Combe has a course.
Professor La Combe: Not a course, but a meeting. And as the traffic is rather thick now, it is better not to take a chance. I should not be late.
Prabhupada: All right. Thank you very much.
Professor La Combe: Thank you very much.
Prabhupada: Jaya Hare Krsna. [break]
Yogesvara: ...on a book. It is accepted as being authentic. All the universities use his texts. And he has a big office in the Sorbonne. The Sorbonne is the most famous French University.
Prabhupada: He is a big man.
Bhagavan: Actually, it's not famous. It's infamous.
Prabhupada: No, why infamous. They are famous. Why do you say infamous?
Bhagavan: Well, I thought fame is to be referred to for devotee.
Prabhupada: That is your sentiment, but practical world, he is a scholar, he is a head man of a department, a university. He must be famous.
Devotee: I just saw... Maybe you knew the latest headlines in the newspapers today were "President Nixon is found innocent."
Prabhupada: Oh, accha?
Devotee: They said he was found innocent.
Prabhupada: In the court?
Devotee: Yes. Because, you knew about the Watergate case. He was caught...
Yogesvara: Prabhupada knows the story. He knows the incident. He was found innocent by who? By court?
Devotee: Yes, by the whole government. He had done some cheating and campaign making secret tape recordings against the other party.
Prabhupada: He did? And still he is innocent?
Devotee: Yes. He paid so many millions, thousands and thousands of dollars. His party, the republican party, they put microphones and everything in the convention of the democrats and had spies and everything in order that he could find out their tricks. He had paid all these men and there were all fired.
Prabhupada: So that is not bad because in politics you have to do that. Everyone does so. What is Nixon's fault?
Devotee: But only he got caught. And all of his men quit.
Prabhupada: No, no, suppose you are my rival. So I wanted to know your secrecies. So I make some mechanical arrangement. That is not fault. That is not... Everyone does so. Why do you expect that he will not do that? He must do that. If you are my rival or enemy, to know your secrecy, I must endeavor to do everything. As you are doing, so I am.
Devotee: They were bribing men. They had paid them money and everything to do these things.
Prabhupada: Yes. So bribing men, everywhere it is going on.
Devotee: According to the American government it is illegal to... Each person has his own plans. And it is illegal to find out the other's. But now they said he is innocent.
Prabhupada: Court says.
Devotee: The United States government. They had a big trial and everything. So they found tapes and everything, but there was some missing tapes. They could not directly pin him for the whole thing. He said, "I didn't know anything about it." He says, "My men were just doing it. I never told them to do it. They did it on their own, for me. They liked me so much, they were just doing it. I never paid them."
Yogesvara: Isn't the ksatriya qualities that he is to be trustworthy?
Prabhupada: No. When there is political game, everyone does everything to gain his victory. In politics, these things are allowed. Just like killing, fighting, ksatriya's fighting. That killing is allowed. But killing is not allowed generally. Krsna has killed so many. If you take from moral point of view, He's sometimes immoral. He has killed His maternal uncle, Kamsa, and Sisupala, Sisupala, his cousin brother. And Balarama killed Rukma. Once He saved him, and another time, that Aniruddha's marriage, or something like that... Balarama killed Rukma, the brother of Rukmini. They were family relatives. But there was some misunderstanding in chess playing that other party, Rukma, he was cheating by tricks. The Balarama became so angry, they killed him. So in politics amongst the ksatriyas, these things are not uncommon.
Devotee: But isn't that not good because the politicians nowadays, when they are running their campaign, they say so many lies and everything to the public, that "When I am elected I will do this and I will do that," and they do so many... They pay off so many people in order that they can become elected. So always the good persons are... I guess they also have to cheat in order to get in position, but usually the...
Prabhupada: Therefore we have stopped our political activities. It is not good. It will be hampering to our spiritual understanding.
Devotee: Because we will also have to do that.
Prabhupada: If you want to dance, you cannot be shy. There is a Bengali proverb, nate vase gunthana tana (?). You understand Bengali? No. That, "When you are going to dance... A girl, or a lady is supposed to dance in the platform, in the stage, and when she came, she saw thousands of people. Then she drew her veil, what is called, gunthana, became little ashamed. So you are going to dance. What is the use of veiling yourself?" So similarly, when one takes part in politics, if you don't take all the tactics of politics, then you cannot gain ground.
Devotee: But more and more the people, especially in America, they are seeing how these politicians are cheating. Because every year, in every campaign, the same politician is saying, "I will do this, I will do that," and when he gets into office, he never does anything. But maybe now this time, when our Krsna conscious devotees are running and they are showing the people what rascals... Just like Balavanta on TV, he was saying "How can these people be leader, when they are themselves permitting slaughter, drinking, smoking, having illicit sex life."
Prabhupada: That is a fact. That is a fact. But why the leader? The public also drinks. They also encourage slaughterhouse. So if you say to the public that they cannot be leader, then there is no leader. They cannot find out any leader. The public will understand that "I also eat meat, I also drink, do the same thing. Why the leader should be something, saintly person? After all, he is our leader. So we are of the same character. So why the leader should be something different?" They cannot understand it.
Devotee: Therefore we must cheat.
Prabhupada: Yes. Suppose I am thief and somebody accuses you that "He is a thief." So I don't take it seriously because I know, "I am also thief." Means these appeal, that does not appeal because "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If everyone is thief, if you point out somebody that "He is thief, he cannot be trusted," then he knows that "I am also thief. It is not a big problem. I am also thief." Unless the whole public is sinless, he cannot appreciate a sinless leader. Care care mastado bhai (?). This is natural. If I am thief, so what is the use of accusing you by other, "He is also thief." You'll take that "We all are thieves, all cousin brothers; so why this man should be only accused?"
Pusta-krsna: Is it not a vicious circle, though. Without a pure leader, they cannot be pure themselves.
Prabhupada: But they cannot understand. The vicious circle, they will not be able to understand. Because he is also vicious.
Devotee: Therefore just like Krsna during the battle of Kuruksetra, he told Arjuna to do so many things. He told Yudhisthira to lie. When he said, "Asvatthama has been killed," he said Asvatthama, the elephant, he said the elephant...
Prabhupada: Yes, that was a tactics. So...
Devotee: And also when Karna... Arjuna killed Karna when he was off his chariot.
Prabhupada: The difficulty is, "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." Better you keep yourself ideal character that people can see that "Here is an ideal group of men." Otherwise, in politics... They are feeling the necessity of an honest leader, but they are themself dishonest, they people. So when you point out that "This leader is dishonest," they do not very much appreciate. There is a story in this connection I will tell you, that one man was drunkard. So his friend said, "You are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father also drinks." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "My mother also drinks." "Oh, she will also go to hell." In this way, all the family members, they scrutinizingly studying, that all of them were drunkards. You see? Then the man who was accused of drinking, he said, "If everyone is going to hell, then hell is heaven. (laughter) Because my father is going there, mother is going there, my brother is going there, I shall go there. It is heaven. Where is hell?"
Devotee: Heaven is where all my friends are.
Prabhupada: So this is the position. As soon as you point out, "This man is dishonest," and you scrutinize, everyone is dishonest, then where is dishonesty? It is all honesty. Because if the whole business is dishonesty, so there is no question of honesty? Let it go on. That is the public opinion. Why one should be unnecessarily honest? If the whole world is dishonest, and the dishonest world is going on, then where is the harm? What is the use of becoming... The same thing: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss."
Jyotirmayi: That is exactly what people are saying now. They say "What's the use of being organized and good and sane? Everybody is dishonest now."
Bhagavan: We have to give them a place to go where they can come if they want.
Prabhupada: Just like Pariksit Maharaja gave Kali four places. He could not find out. First of all he gave him four places, that "These four places you can go." But he could not find out such place. So he was embarrassed. So now there is no question of finding out. Everywhere you go, the same four principles. Formerly, it was very difficult to find out a place where these things are going on. Now everywhere you go, these four things are main principles of life. So therefore they cannot very much appreciate these prohibitory principles, that "What is wrong there?"
Devotee: It is just the opposite now. Now there is no place where Maharaja Pariksit can go to find out a spiritual atmosphere.
Prabhupada: Yes. Some of our men, at least one, left our association. He thought that "This is denying the primary necessities of life." Rayarama, Rayarama. He left for this reason, that we do not allow the bare necessities of life. Illicit sex, intoxication... He was first-class criminal on this account, but he could not give it up. Therefore he left.
Devotee: Yes, I spoke with him in San Francisco, and he said, "Swamiji will not be successful because he does not allow free love in his movement." He says, "That is why I had to leave because there was no place for me and my boyfriend." Even he was not attracted to having a girl, but he had a boy. That boy used to be also your typist. He was from Harvard University.
Prabhupada: That Neil.
Devotee: Yeah, Neil.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Devotee: And he told me that "Swamiji will not be successful in his movement because he will not allow free love." I just saw him in San Francisco before I went to India two and a half years ago. We were trying to get him to come back to the temple.
Prabhupada: No, he cannot give up these bad habits.
Pusta-krsna: You said in Geneva that no one has died from giving up cigarettes or illicit sex. So it is not so hard to do.
Prabhupada: No, it is not hard. Now the Christian church is giving liberty, man to man marriage. Most unnatural.
Devotee: Previously they didn't allow divorce. The first principle was there is no question of divorce. Then so many people began leaving the Catholic Church. So then they allowed divorce. And then they did not allow abortion. So again so many people left the religion. Now they allow abortion. And now they are allowing man to man marriage.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Devotee: They compromise just to keep their followers.
Bhagavan: It's a matter of money.
Prabhupada: And that is freedom. So Raya Ramananda left because such freedom is not allowed here. So we have to allow this freedom like the church? (laughs)
Bhargava: There was one survey done by a college, a university, Michigan State, and Rupanuga Maharaja researched it and said 94% of the people in America, they believe there is a God, but only 35% will go to church. They are not very much interested in the churches anymore. They don't trust them. But 94% believe there is God.
Prabhupada: Because the church could not help them in understanding God. The Christian church has no idea what is God. Therefore there is no name of God. Actually, they have no idea about God. Is there?
Devotee: I was raised up a very strict Catholic, going through Catholic school till I was fifteen years old, but I could not... They were trying to teach love of God, but I could not see that they were also loving God. Even the head priest, he was found having illicit sex relationships with one of the young nuns, and she became pregnant by that and he had to leave. They quietly sent him away without anybody knowing, but later on it came out.
Prabhupada: That is going on everywhere.
Devotee: And I saw, "What is the point? They are not even loving God." They were teaching loving God, but I could not see it.
Prabhupada: He said that Vivekananda was doing that. You said? Just tell him.
Nitai: That once I met a little old lady on the streets of Denver when I was distributing books.
Prabhupada: Old lady.
Nitai: Very old. She was walking down the street. She was all bent over. And she asked me what I was doing, and I showed her our magazine and explained that we were teaching Krsna consciousness, and she said, "Oh, is this yoga? I remember way back when Vivekananda came here. Have you ever heard of him?" So we began talking about Vivekananda. She said that she was there when he made his tour. She was in Denver when he made his tour of the United States, and that he stopped there for one week and lectured. And she went there to see that meeting, but she said that all in all she was disgusted with him because he was so much attracted to the women. She said that he was victimized by the women. They were all trying to get him, and she said so when he went back to India he was a broken man.
Prabhupada: Yes, he took with him three women. One of them was Sister Nivedita.
Devotee: Also you told us in India about Aurobindo and Ramakrishna. Aurobindo went also. Aurobindo, when that French woman came, he also fell to her, but just to cover it up he has called her "Mother" because in India, when you call someone "Mother..."
Prabhupada: No, everyone knows he is mother and he is father.
Devotee: Yeah, right. And they don't think... There is no question of sex. When they think of mother and father, they don't think of these things. Also with Ramakrishna. He also had his divine mother. You told us a story in Calcutta that he was very debauched. In a village he used to chase the young women. And his brother actually made him famous.
Prabhupada: It is very difficult to, not to be victimized by woman. It is very difficult.
Yogesvara: Unless you are victimized by Krsna first.
Prabhupada: Yes. One who is, I means, what is called, captivated by the beauty of Krsna, then he is not victimized.
yad-avadhi mama cetah krsna-padaravinde
nava-nava-rasa-dhamany udyatam rantum asit
tad-avadhi bata nari-sangame smaryamane
bhavati mukha-vikarah susthu nisthivanam ca
Madana-mohana. Madana-dahana and Madana-mohana. Unless one is captivated by the beauty of Krsna he will be troubled by the arrows of the Cupid. Madana-dahana. The Cupid is known. He has got arrow. If it pierces, then he becomes victim.
Yogesvara: You didn't find it necessary to enter into any kind of discussion with this French Professor just now. There was no real discussion of philosophy. I was wondering why that didn't happen.
Prabhupada: He did not raise any question. And he is simply translator. He has no philosophy. I asked him "Which philosophy you are...?" "So I make comparative study." I think he did not like to enter into philosophical... Is it not?
Devotee: Most of these gentlemen who come here, when they see you and begin talking with you, like you said, they show their ignorance when they begin to speak. So they prefer not to speak. They always make some excuse that they have an appointment because they know that if they speak, they will be in real trouble.
Prabhupada: Yes. Tavac ca sobhate murkhah yavat kincin na bhasate (?): "A foolish man is very nice as long as he does not speak. As soon as he will speak, his foolishness will be captured." So therefore, sometimes they do not like to talk. Remain as a nice man, (laughs) without being discovered.
Devotee: I think maybe the first gentleman who was here, who said... He was talking about experiencing God... He says, "Actually I experienced God, but actually God is beyond my experience." You gave him such a hard time that I think he must have made phone calls to all these other men, "Be careful of Bhaktivedanta Swami. He is very dangerous." (laughter)
Prabhupada: I told him that you have no experience.
Devotee: He turned so red when you said, "But how were you saying you are having experience, and you just said God is beyond your experience." And then he says, "I never said that. You put those words into my mouth." I whispered in his ear, "We have it on tape. We will play it back for you." (laughter)
Prabhupada: Oh. We have got Krsna. We are not afraid in challenging anyone. I believe on that formula. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. I believe that verse very strongly, that anyone who has not surrendered to Krsna or is not Krsna conscious, he must be within this list: duskrtina, mudha, naradhama, mayayapahrta-jnana, asuram bhavam asritah. That's all. I have explained that verse little elaborately. Read it. It is very interesting. Where is Satsvarupa?
Bhagavan: He is in the other room. Would you like him to come in?
Nitai:
na mam duskrtino mudhah
prapadyante naradhamah
mayayapahrta-jnana
asuram bhavam asritah
[Bg. 7.15]
"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me." It is said in the Bhagavad-gita that simply by surrendering oneself unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality Krsna, one can surmount the stringent laws of material nature. At this point a question rises. How is it that educated philosophers, scientists, businessmen, administrators and all the leaders of ordinary men do not surrender unto the lotus... [break] ...Manu, Vyasa, Devala, Asita, Janaka, Prahlada, Bali, and later on, Madhvacarya, Ramanujacarya, Sri Caitanya and many others who are faithful philosophers, politicians, educators, and scientists etc. surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Person, the all-powerful authority. Those who are not actually philosophers, scientists, educators, administrators, etc., but who pose themselves as such for material gain, do not accept the plan or path of the Supreme Lord. They have no idea of God. They simply manufacture their own worldly plans and consequently complicate the problems of material..."
Prabhupada: Everyone comes, they say, "Why people are suffering?" They are concerned with the people suffering. Actually not. That is a plea only, as if he has taken the task of minimizing the suffering of humanity. He poses himself as very philanthropist. Actually, he cannot do anything.
Nitai: "Because material energy, nature, is so powerful, it can resist the unauthorized plans of the atheists and baffle the knowledge of the planning commissions. The atheistic planmakers are described herein by the word duskrtina, or miscreant. Krtina means one who has performed meritorious work. The atheistic planmaker is sometimes very intelligent and meritorious also because any gigantic plan, good or bad, must take intelligence to execute. But because the atheist brain is improperly utilized in opposing the plan of the Supreme Lord, the atheistic planmaker is called duskrtina, which indicates that his intelligence and efforts are misdirected. In the Gita it is clearly mentioned that material energy works fully under the direction..."
Prabhupada: Just like in Paris, these nice buildings, nice parks, nice everything -- they require brain. There is no doubt about it. But they have been used for woman and wine. That's all. That is their... He have come. People come to see Paris just for that... What is that theater?
Bhagavan: Folies Bergere.
Prabhupada: Yes. And we have heard from our childhood that Paris is a place where people can go and enjoy prostitution. When we were children. I told you last night. So this city is undoubtedly constructed with good merit, but it is used for sinful act... Nobody goes to... Beautiful church, nobody goes there. But beautiful, that theater, because there is naked dance, everyone goes. And therefore duskrtina. Church is vacant. Only the tourists come to see the churches. Not that such a important city, always glorification of Lord is going on. Just like we are trying to do. Take prasadam, worship the Deity, chant Hare Krsna. That would have been the activities of these beautiful churches, but there is no such activity, because people are duskrtina. They have got merit, to construct very nice wonderful buildings, but it is meant for sinful activities: illicit sex, intoxication, gambling and so on. And poor women, they are victimized by these rascals. That's all. Then.
Nitai: (reading) "In the Gita it is clearly mentioned that material energy works fully under the direction of the Supreme Lord. It has no independent authority. It works as the shadow moves in accordance with the movements of the object, but still, material energy is very powerful, and the atheist, due to his godless temperament, cannot know how it works, nor can he know the plan of the Supreme Lord. Under illusion and the modes of passion and ignorance, all his plans are baffled, as in the case of Hiranyakasipu and Ravana, whose plans were smashed to dust although they were both materially learned as scientists, philosophers, administrators and educators. These duskrtinas or miscreants are of four different patterns as outlined below. Number one. The mudhas: those who are grossly foolish like hard working beasts of burden. They want to enjoy the fruits of their labor by themselves and do not want to part with them for the Supreme. The typical example of the beast of burden is the ass. This humble beast is made to work very hard by his master. The ass does not really know for whom he works so hard day and night. He remains satisfied by filling his stomach with a bundle of grass, sleeping for a while under fear of being beaten by the master, and satisfying his sex appetite at the risk of being repeatedly kicked by the opposite party. The ass sings poetry and philosophy sometimes, but this braying only disturbs others. This is the position of the foolish fruitive worker who does not know for whom he should work. He does not know that karma, action, is meant for yajna, sacrifice. Most often, those who work very hard day and night to clear the burden of self-created duties say that they have no time to hear of the immortality of the living being. To such mudhas, material gains, which are destructible, are life's all in all, despite the fact that the mudhas enjoy only a very small fraction of the fruit of labor. Sometimes they spend sleepless days and nights for fruitive gain, and although they may have ulcers or indigestion, they are satisfied with practically no food. They are simply absorbed in working hard day and night for the benefit of illusory masters. Ignorant of their real master, the foolish workers waste their valuable time serving mammon. Unfortunately, they never surrender to the supreme master of all masters, not do they take time to hear of Him from the proper sources."
Prabhupada: Generally, we see now, especially in the western countries, they are working so hard. The master is wine and woman. That's all. Is it not? They have made their master wine and women. In Paris we see everywhere. On the street they are drinking and talking. In Germany also, I have seen. You have been in Germany?
Devotee: Amsterdam is the same way.
Prabhupada: Amsterdam is a place simply for prostitutes.
Devotee: It is the center.
Prabhupada: This is very prominent in the western country, which we are asking, that no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex. These things are only thing enjoyable.
Satsvarupa: They think if you eliminate those, there is nothing left to live for.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is Rayarama's statement. Yes. I am denying the bare necessities of life. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Who will try for becoming perfect in this way? Very disappointing. But still, Krsna is so kind that helping so many. They are doing actually. All right, keep it.
Pusta-krsna: Lord Caitanya's program is so attractive that even...
Prabhupada: That is the astonishment. In India, they give me credit this, that "How it has become possible that these European boys, American boys and girls, they have taken to this path?" That they are surprised.
Yogesvara: We don't have a very good reputation in India?
Prabhupada: Very good reputation that you have become perfectly Vaisnava.
Devotee: No, he means the western people themselves.
Prabhupada: "They must be cynic, crazy, another edition of hippies." Like that, they say like that.
Devotee: They think that... They won't allow even a westerner to marry their daughter, because the westerners have a reputation of marrying for a week and then flying away. So they think like that of the people. Even our own men, sometimes the Indian girls wanted to marry the brahmacaris, the American brahmacaris, but the parents would not allow because they said, "After you are married a week, he will just run away back to his country and leave you here." So they are thinking like that about the westerners, that they, the life is so fast.
Pusta-krsna: Another brahmacari saved.
Prabhupada: One of our man has done so. You know that Ramanuja? The Mexican boy?
Devotee: There's that boy in Bombay he married one Indian girl.
Prabhupada: He is staying.
Devotee: Jagat-purusa.
Prabhupada: He has not left as yet. But he can leave any moment. (laughs) No. He is not American. He is devotee. Therefore he is reliable. (pause)
Bhagavan: We have to arrange a few things.
Prabhupada: What is the next program? Is there any program?
Yogesvara: A big hall meeting.
Prabhupada: Today.
Bhagavan: Tonight.
Prabhupada: What time?
Bhagavan: 8 o'clock. You will be speaking around 8:30.
Prabhupada: All right. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne
University -- June 14, 1974, Paris
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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