Sex Education--Promoting Criminality

November 3, 1976

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Hari-sauri: But how can they take it that what we're doing is a bad thing. If we're training people how to avoid intoxication, how to avoid illicit sex, abortion, contraception.Prabhupada: They say, "Why you should avoid? This is life. Why you are brainwashing?" One boy was there in the beginning. What was his name? Ranchor, his name, I gave him. So his father argued, "Why you are avoiding illicit sex? This is life! Why you are afraid? I'll give you car. I'll give you girls. You enjoy. What is this philosophy, nonsense philosophy." His father was arguing. I think everyone's father argues like that. Lord Roland said, he said, "Why you are prohibiting this thing? This is our life. It is impossible."
Hari-sauri: The thing is in society still, even now, there are people who abstain from it. There are vegetarians.
Prabhupada: There may be very few, one or two. That is insignificant. One million, two person, he is. At least especially in your country.
Hari-sauri: The thing is that they don't claim that they are brainwashed. So we're a society where we're doing all these things, combinedly.
Prabhupada: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If the majority are fools and rascal, if you say something sane, then they'll ask... The man, the sane man, he is insane. He's crazy.
Hari-sauri: Then how to fight them?
Prabhupada: That is the position. The only means is that in spite of all opposition we have to chant Hare Krsna. That will cleanse. Otherwise there is no other way. Argument and logic, they have no brain to understand. It requires this transcendental method, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], by chanting Hare Krsna. That is wanted. You have to chant Hare Krsna and let them give the chance to hear. Then they will be able to catch it, what we are saying, not directly. It is not possible.
Hari-sauri: Then how are we going to fare in this court case? 'Cause in these court cases it's a question of presenting one side against the...
Prabhupada: No, philosophy is there. Court case means there is philosophy, there is logic. So for that we have got so many books. We can... But general mass of people, chanting. When there is court case we are prepared to defend. We have got... We are not fools. We can talk that what is the aim of life. They cannot say anything. The transmigration of the soul, the aim of life which we are discussing in our book, that's fact. How he can deny the transmigration of the soul from one body to another? And if that is accepted, the whole problem is solved. He does not know what kind of life he is going to get. Therefore they do not accept this philosophy. If once accepted, then next question -- "What kind of life we are going to get, either to become a tree or a dog or human being?" What arrangement you have done that you will get next life human being? Then the pious and impious activities comes one after another. The basic principle they are denying. "After this body is finished, everything is finished." Bhasmi bhutasya dehasya punar agama...(?) "The body will be burned into ashes, and where is life? Who is coming? Who is going? That's all." They do not see the soul. Their medical science cannot find out where is soul. How do they say the... The soul means intelligence, they say. Otherwise how do they say the animal has no soul? Why do they say? What is the... "Man has soul," they say. "The animal has no soul."
Jagadisa: That's what the Christians say. The Christians say.
Prabhupada: So what is the symptom?
Hari-sauri: Well, they... 'Cause he, man, has reason and logic.
Prabhupada: That means reason and logic is soul. That is their idea. That is not soul. Intelligence, when I say, "You have got intelligence," it does not mean you are intelligence. "You have got intelligence," we say like that. We never say, "You are intelligence." So intelligence is not soul. The rascals, they do not know. Mistake. Nobody says, "You are intelligence." They say, "You are intelligent."
Hari-sauri: Intelligence is something you possess.
Prabhupada: Yes. Hare Krsna. So? [break]
Hari-sauri: "Brainwashing: clearing the mind of established ideas by persistent suggestion and indoctrination."
Prabhupada: (chuckles) That is... We are doing that. They are under the impression, "Work hard, earn money, and enjoy life." We say, "No. Don't work hard for sense gratification but work hard for self-realization." Indoctrine.
Hari-sauri: Well, any form of education is indoctrination.
Prabhupada: Indoctrinization. Yes. Any kind of education is...
Hari-sauri: Whatever you teach someone, you teach according to whatever you see as the correct value.
Prabhupada: Yes. The child goes to the school. His brain is packed up: "I shall play all day." He likes to play but it is indoctrinization that "No, you should read. You must become graduate."
Hari-sauri: Yes. And whatever country he's born in, he has to learn the culture of that country, he's indoctrinated.
Prabhupada: Apart from that, education is required. The child wants to play but we have to educate him that "No, play is not all. You have to be educated." Similarly, this animal life, eating, sleeping, mating, this is already there. No. We say, "Not only this, you have to realize God." This kind of brainwash is required. If we do not understand God, then what is the difference between you and dog? He knows how to eat, how to sleep. He doesn't require any high education how to eat. Everyone knows how to eat, how to use sex. Nobody requires any university education.
Hari-sauri: Simply ignorance.
Prabhupada: When the animal enjoy sex, they know which part of the body has to be used.
Hari-sauri: They don't have to be taught.
Prabhupada: There is no need of education. He knows it. And these rascals, they are presenting Freud's philosophy, sex. Just see how they are wasting time.
Hari-sauri: They have so many books now on so-called sex education, so many of them.
Prabhupada: Simply wasting time. There is a story about this. One man was canvassing, hawking. Hawker?
Hari-sauri: Yes, hawker.
Prabhupada: So he was, "Here is a book of cow protection, cow protection." He has written one book to take care of the cows. So one old man called him, "What you are selling?" Now, "I am selling this book." "What is that book?" "Maintaining the cow." So, "Why you are selling? First of all give this book to your mother because you are no better than cow, so she will learn how to give you protection." That means he wanted to impress upon him that "Cow protection doesn't require any education. You have written a book? So you are such a rascal, cow intelligence. Better give this book to your mother. She will maintain you. Don't sell it. Everyone knows how to give cow protection." So similarly, this sex literature, there is no need of sex literature. Sex literature is there in Sanskrit also. That is how to restrict sex. For what purpose one should indulge in sex, that is called Kama-sastra. I have seen this Freud philosophy became so prominent that sometimes in the year... 1940's maybe. So one young woman was traveling, and another young man was traveling. So they began to discuss about sex very openly. And both of them unknown. Still, they engaged themselves in discussing the sex literature, without any shame.
Hari-sauri: Pseudo-intellectuals. Shameless.
Prabhupada: Yes. Young boy, young girl, they began to discuss on sex openly as scientific.
Hari-sauri: What is this scientific?
Prabhupada: Scientific means after discussing for some time you propose that "Let us enjoy sex." That's all. It is common thing in your country, unknown girl, unknown boy, and talk for some time, "Let us go to some restaurant," and then talk more intimately, and then sex.
Hari-sauri: That's the whole social system.
Prabhupada: "Would you like to sex?" And who is the young man, young... They'll deny it. I know this. During ball dance they embrace one another, another's wife, another husband, and in ball dance... Or there are side rooms. Naturally they'll feel sex and they go to the side room and discuss. Is it not?
Devotee: Yes.
Hari-sauri: The only reason they go to a dance is to pick up some woman for sex life. That's all.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: Most of my friends used to go out specifically to find some woman to have sex.
Prabhupada: This dancing club means this. (end)

 

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Room Conversation November 3, 1976

November 3, 1976

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(Srila Prabhupada is taking prasadam during first part of the conversation)Prabhupada: ...and we don't smoke even. We don't spend a paisa even for sense gratification.
Jagadisa: They're squandering billions of dollars.
Prabhupada: Yes. And they, you spend money for cigarette, for cinema, for restaurant, unnecessarily. We don't spend a farthing even, for all this purpose. Simply we take little rice, capati, that's all. And still, you are culprit?
Hari-sauri: They, in the papers report that, that we spend very lavishly for the Deities, but for ourselves we eat only very simply.
Prabhupada: So is it not credit? We spend for God. We are servant of God. We want to see God gorgeously situated, and for us we have no comforts, we don't care for any comfort. We simply spend minimum just to keep the body and soul together, that's all. This is our principle. We don't spend a farthing for our sense gratification. This should be noted down if some case is there, this should be presented. We don't go to restaurant, we don't go to cinema, we don't spend lavishly for dress or something else, no. Neither for furniture (laughter). Eh? If you sit down in a, a pad is that faulty?
Hari-sauri: Then when they go to any of our temples, they're amazed because we don't...
Prabhupada: We sit down, don't use any chair, any couches, unnecessarily, carpet. What expenditure? We have no expenditure for personal self. And still you are faulty? What can be done? We don't purchase any cosmetic, this clay tilaka is sufficient. We don't apply any pomade or cosmetic or ointment. Either for our girls or ourselves. We don't do that, we live very simply. After 15 days we shave, there is no use of cutting or decorating. Note down all these things. We have no doctor's bill even.
Hari-sauri: It's because of those...
Prabhupada: At least I save doctors bill, (chuckles) I am always sick, but I never go to the doctor. Give me little nim, give me little this (sounds of hand striking table), that's all. Then what less expenditure we can make? As far as possible we do not go even to the doctor.
Hari-sauri: Well, It's because of these things, that they're wondering well then, what do we do with the money?
Prabhupada: We spend for Krsna. Just like spending it, lakhs of rupees in Bombay for Krsna.
Hari-sauri: Yeah, I agree.
Prabhupada: Every month.
Hari-sauri: We just have to show them how many books we are printing and everything, too.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: It's not that we're letting the money sit and accumulating.
Prabhupada: No. I am daily canvassing Gopala Krsna, "Print book! I don't want to keep the money in the bank, convert into the books and keep it in our..." I am asking.
Hari-sauri: Yeah.
Prabhupada: Whatever little money I've got, I don't want to keep in the bank. I want to convert it and purchase paper, print book. Then these rascals will never be able to take anything from us.
Hari-sauri: No.
Prabhupada: That I am asking every time. Ask Gopala that, "Print books and keep it nicely, otherwise somebody may steal and sell in the market." Our books should be printed and kept very safely. This is our program. And they are speaking from the Vedic literature. We don't manufacture any magic, any jugglery, any mystic power. We have no mystic power. So, which point they will find fault? (laughs) I don't think we have got any loophole.
Hari-sauri: We simply have to...
Prabhupada: Huh?
Hari-sauri: ...present our whole program and...
Prabhupada: Our only business is how to establish Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the only business. Our quarrel with our men: Why this temple is not clean? Why there is no flower in the Deity room? This is our fight. We have no other cause of fight. And why should we show magic? But these inquiries are going on -- it is good -- these rascals will be exposed.
Hari-sauri: Hm. The people are so confused because they don't know...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: What's bona fide and what is not now.
Prabhupada: Neither they want. They are becoming skeptic.
Hari-sauri: Yes.
Prabhupada: Nobody's bona fide, that's all. This is their conclusion. Because they have confronted with some non-bona fide, they have concluded that everyone is non-bona fide.
Hari-sauri: It's very easy just to try to brush it all under the couch and forget about it.
Prabhupada: (Bengali) A man's household utensils was taken by the thief. He promised, "I shall not purchase anymore utensils, I shall eat on the floor. (laughs) Because the thief has stolen my plates, I'm not going to purchase anymore, I shall eat on the floor. (Bengali)
Hari-sauri: They give the example that just because someone may be passing counterfeit money, that doesn't mean that all the money you get...
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes. They conclude that no more take any money, all counterfeit. At least in India, Bhagavad-gita is there, accepted, the God-science literature all over the world.
Hari-sauri: Hm.
Prabhupada: Every country. So why they do not take the Bhagavad-gita as the standard?
Hari-sauri: Eventually they will if we push it on. (pause)
Prabhupada: My mother was very much fond of pickles. After resting in the afternoon, she would take something very sour, pickle. We used to take with her also. (laughs) We were small children, my mother died when I was only 14 years old. (long pause) (aside) What else? All right bring it. (sounds of plates sliding)
Hari-sauri: Potato pakora.
Prabhupada: Oh, hm. [break] ...just in front of our house, attached to our house. That means the house belonged to one of our relatives and her son, stepson, he sold the whole house to a Marwari without the knowledge of this, my, she was in relation grandmother. So when the house was sold in those days, about say about 100 years ago, not 100 years, about 90 years. In Mahatma Gandhi road, most important, that Mullik's house you have seen? That was one of the Mullik's house, for 12,000 rupees. One bigha of land and grand building. So it was unknown to the stepmother, the stepson sold it. Then she appealed to the high-court that, "I belong to a respectable family and this my spoiled stepson has sold the house without my knowledge, then where shall I go?" The high-court considered that, "The drunkard son has sold at a cheap price, and she's belongs to a respectable family, where she'll go?" And the high-court order was, "The half of the house shall be used by this lady. During her lifetime, you cannot take possession," the Marwari who purchased. So under that grandmother, we used to live. Therefore this half portion of the house was a Marwari school. So it is just like our temple and this. So my father first admitted me in that Marwari school. So I learned this devanagari there, for a few days I was going. I was the only Bengali student there. Because I was little, my father thought that instead of going outside the house, within the house there is a school, get him admitted. The school name was Visuddhana(?) Marwari Vijnala(?), something like that, and later on they constructed huge building Visuddhana(?). Then the house was vacated. So in the beginning I was admitted in a Marwari school and I learned a little Hindi there, that's all.
Devotee (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (laughs) That was little chance also, understanding Hindi. And I was maybe 7, 6 or 7 years old, that's all. Then somebody made at Saranpur. That was of course not in the school. Then in our college there were many up-country (?) class friends, Scottish Churches College. One of them was that Grnanatha (?), he came here, (Hindi).
Devotee (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: He was bigger (?) in the police court M.A., B.A... Now, I repeatedly told him that "You stay here and write Hindi."
Devotee (2): He didn't stay here?
Prabhupada: He stayed for one week or 15 days. (Hindi)
Devotee (3): (Hindi)
Devotee (4): L-A-R-Y-N-X. Cavity with enclosing muscles and mucus membrane behind and communicating with nose, mouth and larynx.
Prabhupada: Hm? Here this side, this space some connection, when it is affected that is called laryngitis.
Hari-sauri: Hm.
Prabhupada: I know some of the medical terms.
Devotee (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Now this disease is called laryngitis.
Devotee (1): Yeah.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Sariram vyadhi-mandiram. It is a temple of disease. The temple of di..., temple of miseries. Not only disease, there are so many other things. Huh? Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14], simply giving trouble. Sarira-bandha, asann api klesada asa dehah [SB 5.5.4]. Deha, deha means klesada, klesada troublesome. They do not know this science. And they do not know how to get out of this body, there is no science. This is the only science Krsna consciousness. They do not know this science, they do not know what is the real position, how troubles come, how we are suffering. Nothing of the sort. And our Krsna Consciousness movement is simply dealing with this, how to get out of this entanglement of the body. That is the only problem. And the materialistic person, they do not think it as a problem. Manah sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati [Bg. 15.7]. We are dealing with the real problems, and others they do not know what is the problems, what to speak of dealing with them. Completely in ignorance, how the body is changing, why there are different forms of life, wherefrom they are coming. They do not deal with these things.
Hari-sauri: Everybody thinks their body is for enjoying this. They think it's the source of pleasure.
Prabhupada: That enjoyment that God's children? They also thought it is enjoyment, you see? The hippies are thinking, enjoying. And others little polished way. They are also the same, in a polished way, by dressing nicely. Eh? Everyone is in ignorance, tribhir gunamayair bhavaih. Find out this verse.
Devotee (1): Ebhih sarvam idam jagat.
Prabhupada: Ah.
Devotee (1): Tribhir gunamayair bhavair ebhih sarvam idam jagat.
Prabhupada: Nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam.
Devotee (1): This is from the 7th chapter.
Prabhupada: Seventh, yes. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14].
Devotee (1): See if it's 7, fifteenth or fourteenth. (pause)
Prabhupada: About the gosvamis it is said, nidrahara-viharakadi-vijitau **, sleeping, and eating, and sense enjoyment conquered. So no sleeping, no eating and no sense gratification, that is perfection. Nidrahara-viharakadi-vijitau catyanta-dinau. Hm.
Hari-sauri:
tribhir gunamayair bhavair
ebhih sarvam idam jagat
mohitam nabhijanati
mam ebhyah param avyayam
 [Bg. 7.13]
"Deluded by the three modes (goodness, passion, and ignorance), the whole world does not know Me, who am above the modes and inexhaustible."
Prabhupada: Here is the disease, material disease. They are being carried away by the three modes of material nature. Hm? It is explained further that purusah prakrti-stho hi bhunkte... [Bg. 13.22]. Hm.
Devotee (2): Bhunkte prakrti-jan gunan.
Prabhupada: Ah. Gunan. Karanam guna-sango 'sya.
Devotee (3): Karanam guna-sango 'sya, sad-asad-yoni...
Prabhupada: Sad-asad-janma-yonisu. Hm? Purusah prakrti-stho hi [Bg. 13.22]. So, this is a big purport about this? How big...?
Hari-sauri: About one page. Tribhir gunamayair bhavaih?
Prabhupada: Hm. Read it.
Hari-sauri: The whole world is enchanted by three modes of material nature. Those who are bewildered by these three modes cannot understand that transcendental to this material nature is the Supreme Lord, Krsna. In this material world everyone is under the influence of these three gunas and is thus bewildered.
By nature living entities have particular types of body and particular types of psychic and biological activities accordingly. There are four classes of men functioning in the three material modes of nature. Those who are purely in the mode of goodness are called brahmanas. Those who are purely in the mode of passion are called ksatriyas. Those who are in the modes of both passion and ignorance are called vaisyas. Those who are completely in ignorance are called sudras. And those who are less than that are animals or animal life. However, these designations are not permanent. I may either be a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya or whatever -- in any case, this life is temporary. But although life is temporary and we do not know what we are going to be in the next life, still, by the spell of this illusory energy, we consider ourselves in the light of this bodily conception of life, and we thus think that we are American, Indian, Russian or brahmana, Hindu, Muslim, etc. And if we become entangled with the modes of material nature, then we forget the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is behind all these modes. So Lord Krsna says that men, deluded by these three modes of nature, do not understand that behind the material background is the Supreme Godhead.
There are many different kinds of living entities -- human beings, demigods, animals, etc. -- and each and every one of them is under the influence of material nature, and all of them have forgotten the transcendent Personality of Godhead. Those who are in the modes of passion and ignorance, and even those who are in the mode of goodness, cannot go beyond the impersonal Brahman conception of the Absolute Truth. They are bewildered before the Supreme Lord in His personal feature, which possesses all beauty, opulence, knowledge, strength, fame and renunciation. When even those who are in goodness cannot understand, what hope is there for those in passion and ignorance? Krsna consciousness is transcendental to all these three modes of material nature, and those who are truly established in Krsna consciousness are actually liberated.
Prabhupada: This is explanation of that?
Devotee: Hm.
Prabhupada: I don't think in any other edition such explanation is there. Dr. Radhakrishnan, other this Dada (?) Krishna. Radhakrishnan and Dada Krishna. Tribhir gunamayair bhavair ebhih sarvam. Hm. Nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam. Therefore they cannot understand what is God, especially the communist countries. Completely in ignorance. (Sanskrit) They're thinking that by external adjustment, by following the Marxist theory or Lenin's theory and killing the capitalists, inventing some bogus ways of happiness... (pause) You have been in Moscow?
Hamsaduta: Hm, several times.
Prabhupada: Hm. I think they are poor. Is it not?
Hamsaduta: Very poor.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Hamsaduta: Big country, very poor.
Hari-sauri: Moscow.
Hamsaduta: In that city, one has to wait for years in order to get an apartment.
Prabhupada: Accha?
Hamsaduta: Yes, Anatol was telling me, that boy Ananda-santi. His whole family was living in that..., but you did not see his room. His room is very small, maybe two times the size of your kitchen and whole family was living in that. Mother, grandmother, father, him, and when Mandakini went there she was also living there.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Hamsaduta: Very small.
Prabhupada: Pigeonhole.
Hamsaduta: Pigeonhole, really pigeonhole.
Prabhupada: So why this is?
Hamsaduta: Only one room. Because there is no, economically they're...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: Not making progress. The situation is very bad. And all the buildings if you noticed, they were very old.
Prabhupada: Yes I have already told...
Hamsaduta: Did you notice? They were built in the time of Stalin.
Prabhupada: Hm. Not Stalin.
Hamsaduta: Or in the years before, sorry.
Prabhupada: That is during the Czar. They could not build any.
Hamsaduta: That university, very old, that university and all the big buildings, very old. And like you say there is no taxi.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: No food, the women are working like...
Prabhupada: Sweeper.
Hamsaduta: Sweeper, all fat...
Prabhupada: Why they're fat?
Hamsaduta: Just eating potatoes and and...
Prabhupada: Meat.
Hamsaduta: Meat, pork meat, pig's meat.
Prabhupada: Very miserable condition.
Hamsaduta: Oh yeah.
Prabhupada: And advertising, communists are so rich, so happy.
Hamsaduta: I know, everything, all their literature concerns itself with struggling. Struggling against capitalists, struggling to...
Prabhupada: And mass of people they are very morose, unhappy.
Hamsaduta: Yes.
Prabhupada: In the street you see there is no happiness in their face.
Hamsaduta: Silent.
Prabhupada: Hm. Means terrorism, if they do anything against, then (snaps fingers) finished.
Hari-sauri: Subdued.
Prabhupada: Very miserable.
Hamsaduta: All these communist countries are like that. I was in many of these countries, people are all depressed.
Prabhupada: There is no taxi. You cannot get taxi on call. And the taxi drivers, they want something more.
Hamsaduta: Yes, they...
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hamsaduta: They do that.
Prabhupada: Very bad country, the communist country.
Hamsaduta: I was asking this boy, that was here a few days ago from South India, from Kerala, he was in Russia. I asked him. "What did you eat there?" What did you, you stayed for one year?
Prabhupada: He must be eating meat.
Hamsaduta: No, he said, "I was able to get frozen vegetables from the south of Russia. They freeze it and then they sell it," he said, "but it is very expensive, very costly." He was getting frozen.
Prabhupada: That is also nasty. Frozen means nasty. I never take frozen. In the beginning I thought, "Oh, it is very nice, you can get fresh vegetable." But they are not at all fresh.
Hamsaduta: No.
Prabhupada: All rotten, rather the same vegetable, as we have got in India practice, we dry it and keep it. That is tasteful. In season time -- suppose this season there is huge quantity of vegetable -- so here the system is they cut into pieces during the season and dry it in the sun and keep it. And during out of season it is soaked in water, it revives the old taste, then you can cook. (Hindi or Bengali)
Devotee (1): Tastes as though it is different. The fresh vegetable the taste is very good.
Prabhupada: Fresh vegetable must be, but still there is some taste. But this frozen it has no taste.
Hari-sauri: No.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Even they have, Indians those who are fish eaters, they keep this dry fish.
Hamsaduta: Yeah, dried fish.
Prabhupada: They-fresh fish -- they smear with turmeric and salt and keep it in the sunshine and they dry it. And of course this fish it has no, what is it taste. (laughter) But they keep it. (aside) Bring me little water. (Bengali and Hindi) This I want to introduce, let them be satisfied whatever they can produce themselves locally. What is that, little cloth, little food? Any man can produce these things. There is no difficulty at all. They must agree to this simple life. Otherwise, everywhere you can produce your own food and cloth and cottage. If possible you can construct big buildings. There is no need. And they should be satisfied, happy with Krsna. Then life is successful. This I want to introduce now, anywhere. And it is practical. It is not something bogus. It is... We have already experimented. By God's grace we can produce everything from the lands, sarva-kama-dugha mahi, sarva-kama-dugha mahi? You can get everything. If they are satisfied with this simple life, then they save time for Krsna consciousness and happy life. In India they don't require even cottage. One katiya (?) is sufficient. Keeping in one place and lay down. Eight months, at least six months, it is very nice. At night, even in daytime it is very hot, at night it is cool. So you have got very good sleep, soothing, then you become refreshed in the morning. If you have got good sleep at night, then you become refreshed, your health is regained. Hm? If I (indistinct), take morning snana and capati. During very hot season they don't take even capati. They take some fruits, guava and this... What is called that? (Hindi)
Devotee (2): That? Melon.
Prabhupada: Melon, yes. During hot season you get watermelon, this other melon.
Hari-sauri: Honeydew melon.
Prabhupada: Honeydew melon, oh very nice. In the upcountries still in the village during daytime they don't eat. During daytime they take some fruits and at night when it is cool, the cool ah, refreshing air, they make some capati. One time, is it not?
Devotee (2): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Eh, (Hindi) In that night because in daytime it is so hot, it is embarrassing to cook and to digest also. Better take food, ah, fruit, this melon, and at night they take 3 or 4 capatis according to the... And good sleep. Very happy life it was, all over India. There was no question of poverty. People did not know what is poverty and now it is poverty. They do not get even sufficient food.
Hari-sauri: Industrialization.
Prabhupada: Ugra-karma. I don't like industrialism.
Devotees: Hare Krsna. (end)

 

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Krishna's Special Favor

"Krishna's Special Favor"

November 3, 1973

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Prabhupada: Yes. [break] It is there?Pradyumna: Yes.
sat-sangan mukta-duhsango
hatum notsahate budhah
kirtyamanam yaso yasya
sakrd akarnya rocanam
Prabhupada: Where it is quoted from?
Pradyumna: Quoted from Bhagavatam, Srimad Bhagavatam, 1.10.11.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pradyumna: First Canto, Tenth Chapter, Eleventh Verse.
Prabhupada: Make note there.
Pradyumna: Translation?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed from bad materialistic association can never avoid hearing the glories of the Lord even though they have heard them only once."
Prabhupada: Hm. So this will protect you from the influence of maya. Read that again.
Pradyumna: Sanskrit or translation.
Prabhupada: Translation.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed..."
Prabhupada: "In association with pure devotees." So if you are karmis, then where is the..., What is the value of this association? Sat-sanga. Sat-sanga means assembly, discussion. Bodhayantah parasparam, tusyanti ca ramanti ca. If you are not interested in association, discussion, then you are finished. So... karmis, they are fools and rascals. When you have got this center, it is not that you should be engaged from morning till you go to bed for sense gratification. That is not life. That is karmi's life. You have no time for sat-sanga, for association. You cannot make any progress by this sort of karmi's life. We have to work for organization, but not that whole day and night engaged and no sat-sanga. That is a misguided policy, and it will spoil the whole structure. In Los Angeles, they regularly assemble during arati and class. If this regulative principle is lost, then you are karmis. They must come back by six o'clock, suspending all other duties, and assemble by seven o'clock. Joint mess program is not good. "You bring some money, you bring some money and spend us jointly for eating, sleeping." That is called joint mess. You know the joint mess? This word? What is that, meaning?
Brahmananda: Well, it means... I thought it had something to do with civil servants, where they all live in a dormitory and eat in a large hall.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Brahmananda: And they all contribute...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: ...part of their salary.
Prabhupada: So if you make that association, that will not help you. Joint mess, dormitory. Or joint family. Just like in India. There are five brothers. They're earning. Father and mother is the leader. They're handing over the money, and the father, mother managing. That is Indian system, a joint family. So joint family or joint mess, the same thing. So if you make like that, a center, then it is no good. You must get spiritual strength. Karmi strength will not help you. What they are doing in Babar(?) Road, these girls?
Guru dasa: They're preparing some srngara for Deity.
Prabhupada: Why not here? Why go to Babar Road, spend twenty rupees?
Guru dasa: According to them, that sometimes they have to go in the center of town.
Prabhupada: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay. But all this money have been taken from U.S.A. I asked Bali Mardana, I asked Karandhara. They paid me for this Bombay affair, sixteen, eighteen lakhs. [break] ...and breathing also does not stop. It goes very slow. Therefore he cannot be immortal. And Bhagavad-gita proposes, that is wonderful thing, if you can stop death. And whole spiritual life means how to stop death. That is Bhagavata's instruction, "Don't accept guru, don't accept father, don't accept, or don't be father, don't be mother, don't be, if you cannot stop death." Either you don't accept, or don't become. Just like they want guru. So don't accept a guru who cannot stop your death. And from guru's side, it is advised, "Don't become guru if you cannot stop the death of your disciple." This is Bhagavatam's statement. So our Krsna consciousness movement is to stop death, live eternally with Krsna, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our movement. So our guru gives us this opportunity, no more death. Tyaktva... After leaving this body, you don't accept any more material body. And if you don't accept material body, then there is no death. As soon as your spiritual, you remain in spiritual body, there is no death. There is no birth also. Death is concomitant where birth is there. If the death is stopped, then there is no birth. And if there is no birth, there is no disease, there is no old age. This is the process. So birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped only by Krsna consciousness. So if you don't like to be Krsna conscious then what is the use of becoming your disciple, and if the guru, if he cannot stop your death, birth and death, then what is your becoming guru? So 'mrtatvaya kalpate. Yam hi na vyathayanty ete purusam purusarsabha. Find out this verse. Yam hi na vyathayanty ete.
Srutakirti: Y-a-m?
Prabhupada: Yeah, y-a-m. Yam hi... Get this light on. [break] ...there is birth and death and old age and... That is liberation. That is siddhi. That is perfection. These rascals are making plans, material plans. Jawaharlal Nehru made plan of this New Delhi. But he is kicked out. "Go out!" And now he has become a dog in Switzerland.
Srutakirti: In Sweden.
Prabhupada: In Sweden.
Syamasundara: What?
Srutakirti: He's one of two dogs in Sweden.
Prabhupada: Yes. Sridhara Maharaja told me. Some astrologer has...
Brahmananda: He's taken his birth there.
Syamasundara: Ah.
Prabhupada: So they, these so-called leaders are so fools that they... Therefore they don't believe in next life. Because that is very horrible for them. But the next life is there. Just like we, we, we have our next life. We had our previous life, then now another life, another life. So this simple thing they cannot understand. Nature is controlling this, next life, next life. Otherwise why so many varieties of life? So they have no brain. They are simply making plan for the fifty years duration of life. That's all. And even from practical point of view, suppose you are constructing a very nice house, and if you know that next day you'll be kicked out, you'll die, will you do that? But it is a fact. Next day or two days after, you'll die. That's a fact. So first of all, make arrangement that you'll not die, you'll be able to live here. That is their foolishness.
Syamasundara: Sometimes they take refuge in the idea that: "My family will live on," or "My species..." or "my..."
Prabhupada: That's...
Syamasundara: "...children..."
Prabhupada: ...all right. The family will live on not forever. They'll live also, say, for few days. Just we go sometimes in... Just like in England, the castles are there, very old castle, thousand years, two thousand... Even this Westminster Abbey and palace, but which king has lived for there permanently? And now, if you know more, if the king has, by his work, become something else. Not necessarily he'll become a king in that house. He may become a dog there. This science they do not know. And they are proud of their education, culture. Suppose we are constructing the Vrndavana temple or Bombay temple. It is also certain we shall not live, but our attempt to construct that temple will be recorded in Krsna.
Syamasundara: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. "Because he has spent his energy for My service." That will be our gain. Others, they, whatever they are working... Ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah. Find out this verse. Ko va. Ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah. This is in Bhagavata.
Devotee: Bhagavata.
Prabhupada: Yes.
tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer
bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim
ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah
 [SB 1.5.17]
Tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam hareh. Just like many of our disciples, as a matter of civilized man they should have remained at home, obedient to the parents, get married and live peacefully with father and mother. Of course, European, American boys, they do not do that. But it is expected that should be like that. Just like yourself. You should have lived with your father. He also. But you did not do this. So take it for granted, out of sentiment, you took to Krsna consciousness. Tyaktva sva-dharmam. To live family life, peaceful life, obedient life to the fathers and mothers, this is called sva-dharma. So one gives up this sva-dharma, tyaktva sva-dharmam, and takes to Krsna consciousness gone... Not many, a few. So Bhagavata says, yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim: "What is the wrong there?" Even if he has fallen down, half-way, still there is no wrong. He has gained something. That much service which he has already given to Krsna, that is recorded. That is recorded. That is to his credit: "So this living entity has given service." But other men, he's very honestly living as a good citizen, as a good family member and good brahmana, good ksatriya... So ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah. He's sticking to his own principle of life, but he's not a Krsna conscious devotee. Then what is his gain? He'll simply take the fruits of his material activities and he'll have to accept another body according to that. But here, as it is assured in Bhagavad-gita that sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrasto 'bhijayate [Bg. 6.41], this man, who took by sentiment Krsna consciousness, but could not follow it to the end; by some way or other, he has fallen but he'll be given chance to take birth as a human being, guaranteed, in rich family, or in nice devotee family, yogi family or brahmana family. So he'll be given chance. But that man will take only the reaction of his activities. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. So if he has acted like cats and dogs, he'll get the cats and dogs. But here it is guaranteed, here it is guaranteed that he's going to get another human body and very nice family.
Syamasundara: Does that guarantee that he'll become a devotee again?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because he had already practiced. So if he, if he remembers, if he's intelligent, that "I've got this nice position, according to sastra, because I had some good devotional activities in my past life. Now let me finish. I'll not fall down. I have no economic problem. I have got so much facilities. So let me advance in Krsna consciousness." If he gets this... He'll get that sense.
Syamasundara: He automatically gets that standard.
Prabhupada: Yes. Hm.
Syamasundara: So he must come back to that point again, starting there.
Prabhupada: Just like you have given. Your children are given the good chance.
Syamasundara: Ah yeah.
Prabhupada: The Sarasvati's given chance. Now he's, from very childhood, she's chanting Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare...
Syamasundara: yes.
Prabhupada: He's criticizing: "Malati, this old man is smoking." He's getting the samskara from the childhood, as we got it from good father. Yes. So here is a chance. And that will not... It is not childish, Sarasvati's chanting Hare Krsna. In London, she would finish sixteen rounds?
Syamasundara: Six.
Prabhupada: Six. She was... Just see. She has got determination.
Syamasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupada: And all the children. So that will not go in vain.
Syamasundara: No.
Prabhupada: Never go in vain. This is her... She had executed devotional service in her past life. Therefore from the very beginning of her life, she's in association of Krsna consciousness, very beginning. This is the chance. Now it is the duty of the father and mother, and when she grows up it is her duty to finish this business, go to back to home. This is chance. So where is the loss? Even she failed last life, then where is the loss? She's getting another chance, whereas the ordinary karmis, they'll not get that chance. That is explained. Read it.
Srutakirti: One who has forsaken his material occupation to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything.
Prabhupada: That is the translation. Purport?
Srutakirti: "Purport: As far as the duties of mankind are concerned. There are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound, not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Maharaja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly Citraketu also fell down due to his offense..."
Prabhupada: Therefore we forbid to take to the karmi's life. Because at the time of death, if he remains a karmi, then he'll have to take birth as a karmi. That is the risk. So this regulated life, holding class, chanting, that will not make us fall down. That is essential. It is essential, regulate, to follow the regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds, holding class. You can do anything, but this will keep us alive to the Krsna consciousness platform. If you neglect that, then that is very risky. Even if you get next life birth in a rich man's family, that is not guarantee. Because generally, rich man's sons, they go astray. They get money for nothing and they want to squander it. And material world, if you have got money, so many bad associates will come and help you to squander your money and spoil your life. Because you have got money, then so many friends will come. As soon as you have no money, nobody will come. Even your wife, children will not come. Therefore harisye tad dhanam sanaih. Krsna, first of all, takes away the money, makes him poor so that everyone will neglect him, and because he's Krsna conscious, he'll take Krsna, "Sir, I have no other alternative. Please give me protection." That is also another Krsna's policy, special favor, that "This man wanted Me. Now he's going astray. All right. That's all right. Take everything of his..."
Syamasundara: Like that man Patrick. Three businesses failed.
Prabhupada: Yes. That was my case also. Since my Guru Maharaja ordered me that "You do this." But I thought that "Let me become first of all rich man. Then I shall do," so He... Every business was...
Syamasundara: Maybe that is my case also.
Prabhupada: That is special favor. In the beginning I was thinking, "Now my godbrothers, they have taken sannyasa. They are begging from door to door. Why shall I beg? Let me earn money and start Krsna consciousness." But that never happened. So I had to... I was obliged to take the dress of my godbrothers and preach, instead of earning money. Yes. Some astrologer told me that I should have been a man like a Birla. And I got all those chances in the chemical line, to become... Now I am bigger than Birla. That's all right. But even in business field, there were signs that in money things... I got so many good chances. But everything... Dr. Karttika Candra Bose he appreciated my activities, "Very intelligent boy." He certified to my father-in-law. This is the way of becoming rich man.
Syamasundara: What happened?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Syamasundara: Why didn't...
Prabhupada: Something happened, and everything was finished. That is Krsna's grace. Just like something has happened wonderful. So that is also Krsna's grace.
Syamasundara: People stopped purchasing...?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Syamasundara: People stopped purchasing...?
Prabhupada: No. Just like Dr. Bose's laboratory. So Dr. Bose's laboratory, I was manager. Then I took his agency, very good terms. I was earning money like anything. But the next manager, he became envious. He began to poison Dr. Bose, to cut off our relationship. So it happened. Then, when I was Dr. Bose's agent, I become so much famous that Bengal Chemical, the biggest chemical factory, he, they wanted to give me the agency. If I would have taken that agency, I would have been the richest man in the chemical world. You see. But they made some condition. So I did not accept it. I wanted in my condition. That is the very little... But I was puffed-up, that "I am such a big... And this man is flattering. So I must get my condition fulfilled." So I did not accept it. The Smith Stanstreet gave me agency. Because in my work, in Dr. Bose's laboratory, I did it very creditably. So every other manufacturers, they became attracted to me, how to get me. The Smith Stanstreet Company, Bikepala(?) Company, Bose's, Bengal Chemical Company, they all wanted me. And I thought, "Oh, everyone wants me." So, so I refused. And later on there was a clique between Dr. Bose and me. So I lost everything. Then I started my own laboratory. Somehow or other, there was something, and...
Syamasundara: Oh, I see.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: In Bombay, you were having your own business then?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: Manufacturing?
Prabhupada: Yes. No, that is small manufacturing. So I got very, very good chance. But Krsna did not allow it. He wanted me to come to this point. That is my practical experience. And now I'm seeing that it is Krsna's so much favor. You see? Yasyaham, anugrhnami... It is, it is, actually it is His grace. "What he'll do by becoming Birla, rich man like Birla?" That was Krsna's plan. "Come here. Do this work." You see. My Guru Maharaja ordered. Krsna wanted. I was resisting Him. That's all. I was actually very expert businessman in chemical line. I did it very creditably in Bose's laboratory as manager and my own business. And everyone knows... Even in manufacturing also.
Syamasundara: Yeah, with that same experience now you've organized a world-wide society...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: And that's a big business.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Syamasundara: Difficult work.
Brahmananda: Just like before coming to India, in Japan, with simply five thousand dollars, you took fifty thousand dollars worth of merchandise.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: And you brought it, had it sent...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: And then everything...
Syamasundara: Life members...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: And then you devised the program for distributing them.
Prabhupada: Yes, practically India's, our, whatever we have got, it is starting with that five thousand dollars.
Syamasundara: Five thousand dollars.
Brahmananda: But it's like you were investing, taking goods on credit, and...
Prabhupada: Yes. And this membership became successful.
Brahmananda: Then you devised the method for distribution.
Prabhupada: This membership.
Syamasundara: Even the way you went to America in the beginning. You couldn't take money.
Prabhupada: No.
Syamasundara: So you had some books...
Prabhupada: Some books. Yes.
Syamasundara: Publish...
Prabhupada: That intelligence gives me, Krsna, "You do this." Buddhi-yogam dadami tam. Yes. And in my materialistic life, He was taking away my intelligence. Just like this Bose, Bengal Chemical agency, I should have accepted immediately. Such a big concern. Simply by sitting, I would have brought ten thousand rupees per month in those days. But there was no good intelligence. I thought, "No, I cannot accept your terms. You must accept..." Because I was at that time young man, puffed-up, no brain, no sober brain. They were so attracted with me. They would have given later on all facilities, but I did not accept. Similarly, Smith Stanstreet, they were also very good company.
Syamasundara: Smith's...?
Prabhupada: Smith Stanstreet, an English company. They gave me an agency. So some of my enemy... He was my, he was my employer, but he gave information that I am also manufacturing now, drug and chemical works. So they informed them that "He's pushing his own goods, not your goods." They... He wanted that agency. Yes. In this way, because as soon as you come in the... Even in the spiritual field, my godbrothers are envious. You see? So as soon as you become successful, there will be many enemies. That is natural. That is the sign of success. In your business, if there are many enemies, competitor, that means you are successful. So anyway, Krsna has brought me to the right path. So I may not fall down. That's all. (laughter) When I was reading this verse, that yasyaham anugrhnami harisye tad dhanam sanaih [SB 10.88.8], Krsna said that "When I show somebody My special favor, I take away all his money," I became shuddered, "So Krsna will take my all money? If He's..." And actually that happened. He took my all money, all family, all friends and everything. (laughs) And He asked me, "Go to America. You'll get many money, much money, many friends. You go ahead, Come here." Yes. That was His intention. And I was sticking to limited money, limited friends, limited society. This is special favor.
Brahmananda: So in Bombay you mentioned that Lilavati Munshi... There was one house...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: ...and you were trying to get that house...
Prabhupada: Yes, and she took away.
Brahmananda: ...and you were prevented.
Prabhupada: She took away. Because I was trying to organize a League of Devotees from that house, and Krsna wanted, "What is this nonsense? You are stick here, in Jhansi? You come here, in open field." That was Krsna's intent. But I thought that "Even Krsna took away this?" This Lilavati Munshi...
Syamasundara: Now her institution is...
Prabhupada: But my intention was to start this movement.
Syamasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupada: I was simply planning in different way. Therefore Krsna's favor. I never deviated from this plan. Since I heard it from my Guru Maharaja, I've simply planning how to do it successfully. But I thought at that time, that "I'll be able to do it if I get some money. Let me do some business for the time." That I was thinking. But Krsna said, "Even if you are pauper, you try; you'll get everything." But I thought, "Without money, how this can be done?" That was difference of opinion with Krsna, argument. And I was dreaming also, Guru Maharaja, asking me, "Come on." So I was going. So I was, "Oh, I have to go? I have to take sannyasa?"
Syamasundara: You, you dreaming?
Prabhupada: Yes. Guru Maharaja said, "Come, come with me." I was going. But that... Many things happened before this. Yes. And at last it became, in America.
Syamasundara: Did you tell everyone you were leaving, or you simply disappeared?
Prabhupada: No, I never said. Oh, why shall I? I lost all friends, money, everything.
Guru dasa: I met one gentleman from Allahabad... (Apparently someone comes in)
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Guru dasa: Oh.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Get this light. [break] ...to this point, and you have joined. Do it nicely. It is the greatest movement for making the whole human civilization happy. Take it seriously. Don't...
Tejas: Srila Prabhupada, this is Mister S. Domi(?) Singh, he's a... (end)

 

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