Giriraja: This is Mr. Sharma, the
head technician at the airport, radar.Prabhupada: When I went to your MIT, I
challenged that "Where is that technological department where a dead man can be
brought into life?" It was interesting speech. The students gathered. This body
is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita as machine. Do you know that? This body is
mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita as machine. Yantrarudhani mayaya.
isvarah sarva bhutanam
hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati
bhramayan sarva bhutani
yantrarudhani mayaya
[Bg. 18.61]
Just like you make a tour by driving a motorcar, similarly, the jivatma is touring all over the universe riding on this machine. This is machine. So... Aiye aiye. Hare Krsna. (guest enters) (Hindi) Aiye. We have arranged for your prasada. Yantrarudhani mayaya. This is machine. This body is machine made by the material energy, as all other machine are made by the ksitir-ap-tejo marud-vyoma, earth, water, air, fire. These are the ingredients, any machine. Suppose it is made of iron. So iron is another form of earth. So as all other machines are made with these material elements, similarly, this body is also made with the material elements, and it is yantra. It is particularly mentioned. But this yantra is not ordinary yantra. You cannot make it. But it is yantra. It is made by somebody, and the ingredients are the material elements. So where is that technology? It is made of matter, and it is made by somebody as other machines are made with the material... [break] ...and made by somebody. So where is that advancement of technology? A motorcar, when stops, technology department can repair it and again it runs. So where is that advancement of technology that when this machine stops you run on, again repair it? This was my challenge in your institution. Can you answer this? You have got so many advancement, the nuclear energy and everything. But why you cannot give life to the machine stopped? Why?
Guest (1) (Indian man): There's no soul in it.
Prabhupada: That is the fact, we know. We know that is a fact, that... My point is that the modern age, they are very much proud of advanced technology. So where is that knowledge? And why people do not tax their brains to get this knowledge? This is very important subject matter. But where is that knowledge? And why they do not try to do it? We get information from the Supreme Personality of Godhead that this jiva, the driver... Not driver. The passenger. We are passenger, and driver is God, and machine made by material energy, maya... Yantrarudhani mayaya. The similarity is there. Just like motorcar is manufactured by somebody and the passenger is there and the driver is there, similarly, this is a machine made by maya. I am the passenger, and God is driver. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati bhramayan [Bg. 18.61]. Bhramayan, the driver, the passenger of the owner, he is asking, "Mr. Driver, you go this way." So He's driving. Just like the same -- Arjuna is asking Krsna, senayor ubhayor madhye ratham sthapaya me 'cyuta: [Bg. 1.21] "Just between these two parties of soldiers, please keep my chariot." The same thing. The chariot driver, He is the Supersoul. In this body there are two souls. Ksetra-jnam capi mam viddhi sarva-ksetresu bharata. That he's also ksetrajna. Ksetra is this body, and ksetrajna one knows, this body.... Just like I know it is my finger. I never say, "I finger." It is my finger. So similarly, the driver also can say, "It is my car," and the proprietor also can say. So two persons, one driver and one passenger, or the proprietor.... And the body is machine. The subjects are there. Why you do not try to understand the subject matter? Then where is your advancement? That is my challenge. Why you are so much proud of your advancement of knowledge. What is this knowledge? Tell me. You are young man. I am giving you the challenge. Either you admit that you are not advanced or make advancement. Why you set aside this difficult subject matter and become proud by making a small machine that you are advanced? Where is your advancement? (Hindi) He is Mr. Bajaj, the proprietor of the Bajaj Electricity.
Guest (2) (Indian man): Maharaja, in the context of the universe, the technological and scientific advancement is very, very insignificant. But as far as human beings are concerned, they feel that they have achieved great deal.
Prabhupada: Why? You cannot give life.
Guest (2): Because there is a change from the past. So they feel that there is a difference. But that is at a very low level...
Prabhupada: That is my point, that you are becoming so much proud of your technological..., but what you have done?
Guest (2): It is very insignificant.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is my point. Why you become falsely proud that you have done so advancement that you don't care for God, you don't care for the original manufacturer? That is your fault.
Guest (2): The other day there was a doctor who had come from America for transplantation of kidney, and he has given a lecture in the Rotary Club. I was there. Now they give so much importance to the person who is able to transplant kidney from one body to the other, but how about the whole human being or the universe which has been created by God? Now, this is just a very, very insignificant thing which is already there which is just transplanted. But they feel so happy and proud.
Prabhupada: That is my point, falsely proud.
Guest (2): And Maharaja, are they able to increase the life by a single moment?
Prabhupada: They cannot.
Guest (2): They say they have achieved so much. Are they able to increase it by even a single moment?
Prabhupada: No. This breathing is given there, that "You must breathe so many million times. Bas, finished." Just like you wind the watch. It will run or go round so many times. As soon as the finish, then stop.
Guest (3) (Indian man): Unwound, it is finished.
Prabhupada: The energy is limited. So by the yogic process they increase because they stop breathing. Breathing is limited. Just like you have got bank balance, two hundred thousand. If you don't spend, then it remains
Guest (3): But you got to breathe. You can't stop breathing.
Prabhupada: No, no, by yogic process, you can stop breathing.
Guest (3): Stop breathing or lengthen it?
Prabhupada: Stop breathing means you don't spend. You have got a limited breathing period. By yogic process, you stop breathing, but you remain. That is mystic yoga. So similarly, you can simply increase your life by not using the breathing process. That is pranayama. That is pranayama. So... But you cannot exceed the limit. That is not possible. (Hindi) You don't keep hygienic life. (Hindi) You infect. That is your fault. (Hindi) To live ordinarily healthy life, that is... But if you transgress the hygienic principle, if you transgress the law of nature, you must suffer. Similarly, we are suffering in this material world -- the covering is there -- because we wanted to transgress the laws of God. Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare. When we forget our relationship with Krsna, that "Krsna is the original master, and I am the servant," as soon as you forget this relationship, this is contamination, immediately. Everyone is trying to become another Krsna. This is struggle. Here in this material world you'll find everyone is trying to become very, very big-big leader, big politician, big businessman, big, big, big. But he is not big. That is the disease. He is not big, and he's trying to become big.
Guest (3): This Khorana has put out one (gene?), and if it keeps growing, it will really havoc with artificial development.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Giriraja: He says Dr. Khorana, he has made a gene.
Prabhupada: Gene?
Guest (2): Living cell.
Prabhupada: What it is?
Giriraja: Yes, they take it that the hereditary qualities that a person inherits is determined by these genes. So now they're thinking that if they can control the genes, they can create their own type of human being according to their own...
Prabhupada: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future" -- these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came. He has gained the Nobel Prize, Chemical Evolution. They are trying to prove that life is generated by chemical evolution. So in that meeting I had my one student. He's Dr. Svarupa Damodara. He's also big chemist. So he knows. He talks with me. He has got the idea. He has written one book, Scientific Basis of Krsna Consciousness. So he challenged that "Suppose if I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" The answer -- "That I cannot say." Why he talks nonsense? He is theorizing that life is made of chemicals, but if you give the chemicals, why you cannot make life? When I was in South Africa... Where is that? Pretoria or something? There are many factories for chicken killing. Chicken incubator. So one of the students, worker there, I said, "Suppose this is a chicken factory. So take one egg and analyze the chemicals. There is some white substance, yellow substance. It is covered with some cell. You can do it, and put that in the incubator and get a chicken. Why don't you do that?" The rascal could not answer. "Don't talk of big, big life. Make a chicken." And this rascal cannot do that, and still, they'll talk big, big words. What do you think? Are they not rascals? These rascals they are talking big, big words. First of all prove. Make one egg. Then talk of big, big brain. Make one egg. It is... Everyone can see. There is some white chemicals and some yellow chemicals, and it is covered, and it... You analyze and combine the chemical in the same way and put it in the incubator and get one chicken. Why? You are technologist. Say why they cannot do it. And when they cannot do it, why they talk so big, big word, mislead others and mislead himself?
Guest (4) (Indian man): No, they feel so proud because...
Prabhupada: Foolish.
Guest (4): ...God's creation is so huge and vast and unfathomable. If they are able to unravel even a small part of it which was not known to human beings beforehand. So they are so proud. They don't say that they can do what God can do.
Prabhupada: No, it is known. It is known. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva-bhutah: [Bg. 15.7] "This life is my part and parcel." As soon as you study what is this life, you understand Krsna, quality, what is Krsna. So here is the hint, that Krsna said mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. So it is very small particle. That is also mentioned in the sastra:
kesagra-sata-bhagasya
satadha kalpitasya ca
jivo bhagasya vijneyah
sa anantaya kalpate
[Cc. Madhya 19.140]
The measurement of soul is given there in the sastra: one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So everything is there. It is not matter. And that is instructed in the Bhagavad-gita. Nayam sastra... Acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam akledyo 'sosya eva ca. "This spiritual spark cannot be cut into pieces." Acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam: "It cannot be burned into the fire." So... (aside:) Come on. But these rascals, they are seeing that "The body is burnt into ashes, so everything is finished." And Krsna says, adahyo 'yam: "It cannot be burned." So it remains. And that transmigrates. And that small particle you have no eyes to see. You say, therefore, "Why shall I believe transmigration?" How nature's law is working so subtle way? Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. But the ahankara-vimudhatma. I say, rascal, not manufactured by me. Ahankara vimudha. Vimudha means a great rascal. Mudha means rascal, ass, and vi, visesa, particularly, first-class ass, vimudha. Under false pride, he is thinking, "I am everything." Ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti... [Bg. 3.27]. "I can do anything by science, by this technology." That's... Vimudhatma, great rascals. And these great rascals, they are leading the world. Therefore people are in darkness. They have become leaders, the so-called scientists and educationists and political leaders. All set of rascals, and they have become leaders. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. They are blind, and they are leading other blind men, so people are kept in darkness, and the opportunity of this human life is lost. By nature's way, by evolutionary process, we get this human form of life. Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. Manusya, arthadam. Prahlada Maharaja says durlabham manusam janma. Such life, important life, they are wasting like cats and dogs. So this is education; this is advancement. People are not given the opportunity to utilize this valuable life for understanding higher things. This is plight of this civilization. They are growing like cats and dogs and dying like cats and dogs. And yatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13], and according to his work, he has to accept another body. That is nature's law. So in this life I am very big man, but by work, karmana daiva netrena [SB 3.31.1], by superior administration, I have to accept a body of dog. Then what is the value of your being great now? That technology is unknown, although it is stated there in the Bhagavad-gita. Everything is. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. So Krsna never says that "You'll get such and such body." Dehantara. "You'll have to change the body." Now, suppose... There are 8,400,000 types of bodies. Suppose next time I become a tree. Then just see horrible position. Here is a tree. I am within this room, sitting so comfortably, and the tree is standing there. I can get that life also, karmana, by my work. So this technology is unknown. And we are very much proud of advancement of knowledge. Boliye. Am I right or wrong?
Guest (4): I don't know. I've never given very serious thought considering and...
Prabhupada: Well, these are not the subject matter for serious thought? Do you think? You are under the grip of the laws of material nature. Do you admit or not?
Guest (4): Yes.
Prabhupada: Then why you should be under the grip of material nature? And if there is way, why should you not take? Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te.
Guest (2): Our analysis...
Prabhupada: Analysis... (Hindi) Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. So why you are trying to get better position? That should be the endeavor, that we may get better position.
Guest (2): Sat-sanga.
Prabhupada: Sat-sanga, satam prasangat. The sat-sanga... We know that word only, but if we don't take advantage, then what is meaning?
Guest (5) (Indian man): Execution part is more important of the sat-sanga.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, sat-sanga means sat. Sat means which is true and not contaminated. That is sat. Om tat sat. So sat-sanga means to associate with spiritual knowledge. That is sat.
Guest (5): And execution of the discourse.
Prabhupada: Well, sanga means execution. When you associate with medical association or sharebrokers' association, simply go there and sit down is not your business. You have to do something. You have to do something. Sat-sanga means that. Tad-yosanat asu apavarga-vartmani. Sat-sanga means you have to take the knowledge and use it for practical purpose. That is sat-sanga. So our this Krsna consciousness movement is trying to give the sat-sanga, opening centers all over the world. If people take advantage of it they'll be benefited. But if he is ahankara-vimudhatma, then it is very unfortunate. Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah [SB 1.1.10]. This is Kali-yuga. The leaders also do not associate with sat, and they create their own imagination. Sat, om tat sat. Bhagavan is the supreme sat. So they do not care for Bhagavan, so there is no sat-sanga. Asat-sanga.
sat-sanga chadi kainu asate vilasa
te karane lagi more karma bandha phansa
"I given up sat-sanga, and I am trying to enjoy asat." Asato ma sad gamaya. That is Vedic injunction. "But I do not care for sat-sanga." Sat-sanga chadi. You have to take up something after giving up something. So our present position is sat-sanga chadi kainu asate vilasa. "I have given up sat-sanga, and I am trying to enjoy in asat. The result is I am entangled in karma bandha phansa. According to karma, I am changing my body, and today I am human being and tomorrow I am a dog. And again from dog to another body, another body." This is going on.
Guest (6) (Indian man): Asato ma sama grad? You said, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Sad gamaya.
Guest (6): So the translation of it?
Prabhupada: Sad means "Try to come to the transcendental platform, sat, and don't remain in this asat." Asat means which is temporary.
Guest (6): And tamasi ma jyotir gamaya.
Prabhupada: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilasa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilasa. So sat sanga chadi kainu asate vilasa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on. And the real technology, that "I am not this body; I have been put into this condition, and I am transmigrating from one body to another" -- there is no such knowledge. For the temporary.... [break] ...temporary thing, flickering thing, like children. Children is very busy on the beach, making sand palaces, and he's very happy. So our position is like that. But we should be intelligent enough that "There is our real life, permanent life, not this temporary life," that "This life is temporary. There is another life." Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. "This sarira is not..." Avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam tatam. So many things.... The Bhagavad-gita is full of information, but we don't take advantage. We are so unfortunate. And it is our country. This is Indian culture. We have given up this. (Hindi) Gandhiji, he was supposed to be a great student of Bhagavad-gita. And the such a big asrama, Sevagrama. Where is Bhagavad-gita arcana? Boliye.
Guest (7) (Indian man): Bhagavad-gita is a way of life...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest (7): And is what has to be followed by those who believe in it.
Prabhupada: Believe or not believe, that is another thing. But if you want to live worthy, then you have to study Bhagavad-gita. You believe... Just like somebody believes or not believes in dehantara, but nature's course will go on. Young man thinks "I'll remain young. I shall not become old man." He may believe like that, but he has to become old man. That is nature's law. So there is no question of "believe" or "not believe." If you believe, then you are benefited; if you don't believe, you go to hell. It is not the question of belief. I was speaking in South Africa in a university. So one gentleman, Arya-samaji said... When I was explaining tatha dehantara-praptih, so he objected that "Why you bring Hindu belief?" "And, nonsense, it is Hindu belief?" It is said that kaumaram yauvanam jara: one boy is becoming young man. Is this for Hindu? It is not for the Muslim? And he said "Hindu belief." Such a fool he is. He said, "It is Hindu belief." Krsna is giving this example. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam [Bg. 2.13]. Kaumaram yauvanam jara. So does it mean that Hindus only from kaumara become yuvaka, and from yuvaka to old man, and the Muslims, they do not? It is science! You believe or not believe. If you don't take the fact, then your life is missing. What is the question? Two plus two equal to four -- it is not Hindu calculation, Muslim calculation or Christian calculation. You cannot say that "No, according to our Muslim calculation, two plus two equal to five." Two plus two is always four, either for a Hindu or Muslim or Christian. So whatever is spoken in the Bhagavad-gita, that is for understanding of the human society. Why do you take: "It is Hindu belief. It is Indian belief"? It is science. That is our misfortune, that a science we are accepting as a kind of belief, faith. And that we are neglecting. That is our misfortune.
Guest (4): We are the victims of the British Empire who ruled us.
Prabhupada: Huh? No, you are victims of yourself. Why...? British is not here now.
Guest (8) (Indian man): We are indoctrined.
Prabhupada: British is not here now.
Guest (8): No, they have indoctrined such a philosophy.
Guest (2): But what was there before British came? This is human weakness of our own.
Prabhupada: It is... You... You have been taught that Krsna is an ordinary person, maybe little more in knowledge. That you are taking like that. Kupa-manduka-nyaya. Kupa-manda, the toad in the well, he is informed, "Oh, I have seen one Atlantic Ocean." So he is thinking "Atlantic Ocean may be.... This well is three feet. It may be four feet. Or five. Come on, ten." These rascals are thinking like that -- avajananti mam mudha [Bg. 9.11] -- that "Krsna may be more intelligent by one feet or two feet. Let us compromise-ten feet." This is going on. And Krsna says, mattah parataram nanyat: [Bg. 7.7] "I am the Supreme." They won't believe. They'll manufacture their ideas. This is going on. Aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]. They won't believe that. And still, they'll declare, "I am student of Bhagavad-gita." They won't believe a word of Krsna, and they'll say, "I am student of Bhagavad-gita." This is going on. This is our position. In India everyone says, "I have read Bhagavad-gita three hundred times," but he does not know even a word. So this should be stopped. If we want to advance actually, you take every word of Bhagavad-gita and try to apply in life. Then everyone will be happy. That is a fact. The instruction is there. There is no difficulty to understand. There is no question of interpretation. Simply take it as it is and try to apply it in life -- you'll be happy. And your human life will be successful. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Up to this human form of life, we have passed through so many evolutionary process, but if you understand Krsna, then, after leaving this body, no more material body.
janma karma ca divyam
me yo janati tattvatah
tyaktva deham punar janma
naiti mam eti...
[Bg. 4.9]
And that is success. If you simply study Krsna, then your life is successful.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Yes, sahaja, this is sahaja. You are part and parcel of Krsna. Sahaja. Sahaja means you are born along with Krsna. Krsna is neither born, neither you are born. Sahaja, this word, means saha ja, "along with born." So you are part and parcel. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. When I was born the finger was also born. This is saha-ja. The finger was not separately born. When I was born, the finger was born. So similarly, so long God is there, I am also there. So God is eternal; I am also eternal. You understand this? Then why you are changing bodies? And that is knowledge.
Guest (9) (Indian man): No, why do we at all enter into this circle?
Prabhupada: That I have already explained. You want to be a separate Krsna. That is your ambition.
Guest (9): Initial thing is that.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is initial. A servant, big man's servant... That is natural, that "If I would have become the master." So a servant, if he wants to become the master, that is artificial. A servant remains a servant -- he is happy. And as soon as he tries artificially to become the master, that is the beginning of distress. So we are eternal servant of God. As soon as we try to become God, that is the beginning of our suffering.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) The starting is there. Iccha-dvesa-samutthena sarge yanti parantapa [Bg. 7.27]. (Hindi) Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare, pasate maya tare japatiya dhare. As soon as you desire like this, that "I shall become God," so immediately there is maya. That is maya. So when you are entangled in maya, then there is question of mukti. The mukti means muktir hitva 'nyatha rupam svarupena avasthitih. This is mukti. Mukti means when we are acting differently. That is my condition. That is my bondage. And when I act according to my original position, that is mukti. So everyone is acting here to become master. So there is no question of mukti. As soon as you understand that "My real position is I am servant of God, so let me act as serv..." -- then it is mukti. Hitva 'nyatha rupam. At the present moment we are trying to act as master. So you give it down, up. Act as servant. Then you are mukta. Therefore a bhakta is mukta. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate. Mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena-bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. Anyone who is engaged as bhakta, he is mukta. All are conditioned. So if you become bhakta, if you surrender to Krsna, immediately mukti, instantly. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo [Bg. 18.66]. You are conditioned, you are bound up on account of your sinful activities. So Krsna says, "I'll give you relief from all the reaction of sinful activity. You surrender." So mukti means one second. You surrender to Krsna. It takes one second. But that is very difficult. That requires many, many births. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of suffering, when he comes to the knowledge that "I am servant of Krsna. Why I am trying to become master?" that is jnanavan. And then he surrenders to.... Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma [Bg. 7.19]. That is mahatma. It takes one second.
Guest (10) (Indian man): Prabhupada, surrender, sar..., word, if you can give us a full explanation of the word surrender. What's the meaning of surrender and how one should do it? Basis of surrender.
Prabhupada: Surrender, this is surrender, that... First of all, why you surrender? You must know it perfectly well that "Krsna is master; I am servant." Otherwise there is no question of surrender. Then you have to believe that "Krsna says, aham tvam sarva papebhyo moksayisyami. So now I have surrendered. I have no more fear. Krsna will give me protection." To believe firmly... "Krsna is all powerful. Krsna is my master. He is not a fakir, that He's talking nonsense." We have to believe that. This is surrender. If you think, "Krsna is another fakir like me. He's talking nonsense," then that is not surrender. You have to believe that. That is explained in the Caitanya-caritamrta, that sraddha sabde visvasa niscaya. This is sraddha. Sraddha is the beginning. That sraddha means when you firmly believe in Krsna: "Yes, He'll give me protection." That is surrender. Krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. When you come to this stage, firmly believe in the words of Krsna, that is surrender. First of all, you have to check yourself whether you firmly believe in the words of God. If you don't believe, there is no question of surrender. Then you remain where you are. This is firm belief: "Krsna says that He will give me protection. So let me surrender. I have surrendered to maya. I have not become happy. So why not surrender to Krsna?" This is intelligence. You are not free. Then why you are declaring yourself as free? This is your disease. So intelligent means that I have no freedom actually. I am acting under the dictation of my senses. I am servant of my senses. So why not become servant of Krsna? This is intelligent. Everyone is acting under senses, order of the senses. Kamadinam kathidha na kathida palita durni-desah. Even I don't want to do it, something wrong, but my senses are dictating, so "All right, let me do it." So we are... I am servant of the senses. My position is twofold. Either I become the servant of the senses or I become servant of Krsna. My position is the same. Simply I have to change it.
Guest (10): How to run away from the senses? I, being a servant of the senses, how to run away from the senses?
Prabhupada: Yes. You are servant. That is gosvami. That is svami, gosvami. Svami means when he's no longer servant of the senses, a master of the senses. That is svami.
Guest (10): How to come to that position?
Prabhupada: That requires education, training. You have become a lawyer not in one day. You have been trained up. Then you are lawyer. Similarly, everyone has to be trained up how to become perfect servant, but he must agree in the beginning that "Now I shall become servant of Krsna." Then everything is there. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sango 'tha bhajana-kriya tato 'nartha-nivrttih syat tato nistha tato rucih tatah athasaktih tato bhavah [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. These are the different stages. Adau sraddha: "Yes. Now Krsna says, 'You surrender.' I'll surrender. I believe in this, firmly believe." Sraddha-sabde visvasa sudrdha niscaya. This sraddha means when you firmly believe that "Krsna will give me all protection if I surrender." And that is the beginning of sraddha.
Guest (10): Faith. Firm faith.
Prabhupada: Faith. Yes. Faith means firm faith. Faith does not mean... Anyway, adau sraddha. This sraddha, if we increase this sraddha, you have to associate with sadhu.. And who is sadhu? Bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva samantavyah. He is sadhu, who is simply engaged in Krsna's service. He is sadhu. Api cet suduracarah: "Even though you find there is some discrepancies in his character, because he is fully engaged in My service, he is sadhu." Sadhur eva sa mantavyah samyag vyavasito hi sah [Bg. 9.30]. If he has got other engagement, he is not sadhu. Anyabhilasita-sunyam: [Brs. 1.1.11] "Other engagement zero." That is sadhu. The sadhu-sanga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. You have to associate with such sadhus who are cent percent engaged in Krsna's service. Adau sraddha tato sadhu-sangah tato bhajana-kriya. If you mix with the sadhu, then you'll learn the activities. Sadhu-marganugamanam. The sadhus are rising early in the morning; they are attending mangala arati, they are reading Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, then dressing the Deity and having arati and so on, so on, so on. This is called bhajana-kriya. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sango 'tha bhajana [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Then anartha-nivrttih syat: then all these material activities will stop. Because if you are engaged in spiritual act..., where is your time for material activities, for drinking wine and eating meat and going to the restaurant and...? No time. These boys, although they are trained up from childhood how to eat meat, how to drink, but now they have no time. They never ask me, "Swamiji, give me one rupee. I shall go to the cinema." Never. They have no time. Anartha-nivrttih syat, all anarthas finished. These are the stages. Then his life becomes of devotion. Athasaktih nistha: "Yes, I shall stick to Krsna consciousness." Tato nistha rucih. Rucih means taste. Unless they have got taste, why they should remain with me? They are not coming from poor family. His father is a big lawyer. You know? Yes. So why he is living with me? He has got taste, rucis. Tato nistha tato rucih, athasaktih. Asaktih, attachment. Whenever I am there, they are coming. Asaktih. Tato bhavah. "Oh, I am servant of Krsna. I have to do this." These are the different stages. Sadhakanam ayam premnah pradurbhave bhavet kramah. These are the different stages, kramah. Kramah means gradual evolution. So you have to take that gradual evolution. But it will be done if you remain with the associate. Sangat sanjayate kamah. They are giving this opportunity. Come here in our association and learn the art. I have seen in Bombay. The other day I went to a gentleman's apartment. He is.... The gentleman is earning two thousand, and the wife is earning seven hundred. But they are living in an apartment of this size. Within this, there is bedroom, and there is kitchen, and there is toilet, and everything is there. And if we say people, "Please come here. Take a room like this and chant Hare Krsna," they'll not come. They'll prefer to remain in that tiny apartment. Am I right or not? Manda-bhagya. Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah [SB 1.1.10]. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has declared, ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kono bhagyavan jiva. They are rotting or rotating within this universe in different species of life. But if by chance he becomes fortunate, then take to Krsna consciousness.
ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kono bhagyavan jiva
guru-krsna krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija
[Cc. Madhya 19.151]
All living entities are rotting in this way, but if some of them or one of them becomes very fortunate, then by the grace of guru and Krsna he gets this line of devotional service. It is for the most fortunate person, not ordinary.
Guest (10): What's the difference between grace and mercy?
Prabhupada: Grace means he'll willingly give you mercy, and mercy means you ask for mercy. Krpa-siddha. Sadhana-siddha and krpa-siddha. You are trying to earn one lakh of rupees -- that is sadhana. But if somebody is gracious he can give you: "Take one lakh of rupees. Don't work hard." That is grace. That is krpa. You are ambitious for one lakh of rupees or somebody graciously give you: "All right, take." There are many persons. So that is grace. Otherwise, you earn by your hard labor. That is sadhana. Similarly, by association, by sadhana-bhakti, you attain perfection, and by grace also, you can attain perfection. Two ways. So those who are krpa-siddha, they are more fortunate. (Hindi) Preach this Bhagavad-gita as it is. People will be benefited. You'll be benefited. Don't make unnecessary interpretation, misguide others and spoil your own life. That is very unfortunate. What is the difficulty to accept Bhagavad-gita? There is no difficulty. Unfortunately we interpret in different way and take it other way. So our little attempt is to spread Bhagavad-gita as it is, and whatever it may be, it is being accepted in the Western countries. Not by all. But the people in general, now the... Feeling the weight, they have now began opposing.
Indian man: Have seen the new light.
Prabhupada: Yes. They're opposing me very vigorously in America.
Indian man: And that is a good sign.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is our victory, when there is opposition, and that is our victory. In spite of opposition, we are selling our books in large quantity. Yes. Large quantity. What is the one week sale that? Eighteen lakhs or something like...
Giriraja: In one week, the books, total of books, was seven lakhs books in one week.
Indian man: In one week? That would be hundred thousand dollars.
Prabhupada: No, no. More than. Eh? Seven lakhs?
Guest (11) (Indian man): But mostly they are in America. Also in that number in Japan?
Prabhupada: No, America. And opposition is also in America. No, Europe and America, they are taking.
Guest (10): Opposition is natural. Because you are converting their churches into temples.
Prabhupada: No, there are many... First thing is that my students are advised, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication up to the point of smoking cigarette and drinking tea, and no gambling." But this is their life. How they can give up this? That is... It is a shock. Therefore they say, "brainwashing," that "How a gentleman can give up all these things?" Many... No many. A few of my students, they left. They said that "Swamiji is denying the primary necessities of life." They left. They could not tolerate even. So I do not make any compromise. That you want to become my student you have to give up these things. So the responsible parents, they are appreciating that "My son is now purified." But some of them, there are...
Guest (2): They feel that you are kidnapping their children. (laughs)
Prabhupada: And therefore they are kidnapping. His father, mother came in Calcutta. His mother asked, "Swamiji, please return my son." And "Take your son."
Guest (2): He?
Prabhupada: "Return my son." And "Take your son." And then he was asked, and he was silent. So mother began to cry. So I promised that "I shall send your son. He'll go. Don't bother." His father, mother came. And many father, mother come to give me thanks, "Swamiji, it is great fortune of our country that you have come."
Guest (10): Similar instance about a man swami also, Parsee boy who is now in Hyderabad.
Giriraja: Mahamsa.
Prabhupada: Her (His) said, mother in the beginning she opposed. Yes, she is happy now.
Guest (10): She wants to meet you, Prabhupada. Can I bring her tomorrow?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Guest (2): You are going to Kumbha Mela tomorrow?
Prabhupada: Day after. So our movement is genuine. Now it is up to you to help this movement. And there is no concoction. From... Sa evayam maya te 'dya yogah proktah puratanah [Bg. 4.3]. As Krsna said five thousand years ago, yogah proktah puratanah, so we are also presenting that puratanah. This philosophy is not new. Puratanah. So we have nothing to tax our brain to manufacture something new. So people give me credit: "Swamiji, you have done wonderful, wonderful." I do not know magic. But I am presenting puratanah, that's all, no adulteration. If there is any credit, the credit is this-yogah proktah puratanah.
Guest (4): Puratanah and Sasvata,
Prabhupada: Puratanah means sasvata. Yes. Nityah sasvato 'yam puratanah. So the sun is puratanah. The sun is puratanah, but the shining is the same. And similarly if we present the puratanah yoga, then it is effective. Then it is effective.
Guest (3): Swamiji, I wanted to know the importance of Kumbha Mela.
Prabhupada: This is the assembly of great saintly persons. That's all.
Guest (3): No, if we people go there at Kumbha Mela time, is it good?
Prabhupada: Is it not good if so many saintly persons will come? The atmosphere is so nice.
Guest (3): So many people accumulate.
Prabhupada: Yes. Not only... Not people, but saintly persons. Yes. They have actually executed bhajana, sadhana. Brahmeti paramatmeti. Maybe somebody is brahmavadi, somebody paramatmavadi, somebody bhaktas, but they're transcendental. They're not materialistic persons. So you get their association sadhu-sanga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sangah [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. The Sadhu-sanga is essential. And that is our civilization. Sadhu-sanga.
Guest (11): So many people come with one wish and the whole atmosphere is charged...
Prabhupada: Yes, spiritual... Sadhu-sanga, (Hindi).
Guest (2): Sadhu-sanga, of course, is very important. Getting to take a dip in Ganges at that, during this period, has that got any particular significance apart from sadhu-sanga?
Prabhupada: Yes. There is. At least your faith is increased. With faith you take a dip. Faith cure. And Ganges herself is purifying.
Guest (2): No. Is there special significance during this period? That is all the time.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is... The significance is sadhu-sanga, purification. Our Vedic principle is: whatever is enjoined in the Vedas, we should accept it without any argument. That is Vedic injunction. This example we give generally: just like sankha. Sankha is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic system, if you touch the bone of an animal, dead body animal, then you have to take bath immediately. But the sankha is pure. Now, you cannot argue that "It is the bone of an animal. You say one place that 'Bone of animal is impure. You have to take bath; you have touched it,' and this sankha is in their Deity worship? It is contradictory." But because it is stated in the Vedas, you have to accept. This is Vedic injunction. You cannot argue. There is no question of arguing. Just like cow dung is the stool of an animal. Even if we touch my own stool, I take bath. But cow dung, it is said, it is pure. If there is anywhere impure, you smear the cow dung; it will be pure. Now, you can argue that "It is stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" This argument will not... So Vedic knowledge means don't argue. You have to accept it. Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tas tarkena yojayet. Things... There are many things which is beyond your perception, so you have to accept the Vedic injunction. Then you are right. So if the Vedic injunction is: "In such and such moment you take a bath in the Ganges; you become purified," you take it. There is no question of argument. That is faith. Now faith must be there. Vedo-pranihito dharmah. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Everything is there. Can you find out this verse from the Sixth Canto?
Jagadisa: I know the verse.
Prabhupada: Sixth Canto, First Part. Veda-pranihito dhar... Yamaraja's instruction. Er, the Yamadutas explain what is dharma, veda-pranihito dharmah. Where you found the page? (?)
Pradyumna:
yamaduta ucuh
veda-pranihito dharmo
hy adharmas tad-viparyayah
vedo narayanah saksat
svayambhur iti susruma
Prabhupada: What is the translation?
Pradyumna: "The Yamadutas replied: That which is prescribed in the Vedas constitutes dharma, the religious principles, and the opposite of that is irreligion."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: "The Vedas are directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana, and are self-born. This we have heard from Yamaraja."
Prabhupada: "This we have heard." This is authority. If you have heard from the authority, that is knowledge. If you have manufactured, that is nonsense. Iti susruma. You'll find Arjuna also speaking with Krsna-iti susruma. And Sukadeva Gosvami, he is such a learned scholar. He also -- iti sus..., that... This is our knowledge: to hear and receive the knowledge from higher authority. In the ordinary way also, the students go to the college, they hear from the professor. That is knowledge. He does not go to a pan-walla to hear. One who is authorized, professor, we hear from him. Similarly, we have to get knowledge from the authority. So supreme authority is Krsna. So hear from Him. Then it is knowledge. Otherwise tad ajnanam yad anyatha. What is that? Tad anya...?
Pradyumna: Etaj jnanam iti proktam.
Prabhupada: Iti proktam and yad anyatha ajnanam: "Besides this," anyatha, "that is all ajnanam." So we can take perfect knowledge from Krsna. There is no difficulty. But we deny: "Why shall I take?" That is our disease. The same thing: "I am also Krsna. I can also speak like Krsna." This is...
Indian man: Aham.
Prabhupada: Ahankara-vimudhatma. Not only aham. Aham is good. Aham brahmasmi. That is good. But ahankara-vimudhatma, when he becomes rascal by false ahankara, then it is dangerous. It is dangerous. And that is going on, these dangerous leaders, by ahankara, spoiling the whole atmosphere. That is dangerous. Our preaching is... We say that "Here is Krsna speaking. He says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So you simply think of Krsna, and you chant His name and go to the temple, offer your obeisances. And if you can, offer something for His puja." Bas. Our mission is completed. Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. The words are there. [break] (Hindi) Ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27].
Giriraja: About fifteen more minutes.
Prabhupada: Hm? So I can go and take my massage now. (Hindi)
Giriraja: Actually we could show the book movie. I don't think anyone here has seen it.
Prabhupada: Ah. Yes.
Giriraja: (aside:) You didn't see that. Okay I'll get that. It's a very short movie, fifteen minutes. Very inspiring.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) The real purport of Bhagavad-gita is to surrender to Krsna. Then it is successful. (Hindi) If you take Bhagavad-gita, the speaker of Bhagavad-gita says this is the purpose: man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. Duskrtino naradhamah. That... Na mam prapadyante mudha duskrtino naradhamah. "One who does not do that, he is sinful, duskrtino mudhah. And fool, rascal, naradhamah, lowest of the mankind." He is chastising like that. So if you have got other purpose, that means you come to this group. Duskrtino mudha naradhamah.
Guest (7): So about (Hindi) Ramakrishna Mission.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) But why do you take Bhagavad-gita? You are free to do whatever you like. That freedom is given. Krsna has given. Ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. That you have got. But when you speak of Bhagavad-gita, then you speak what Krsna wants.
Guest (7): You should take Bhagavad-gita as it is. You explain it but not interpret it.
Prabhupada: There is no need of interpretation.
Indian man: You can explain it in the language which people can understand.
Prabhupada: Explanation also not very much required because the explanation is already there, and we are not so intelligent that we can explain. But we take it, the words of the Bhagavad-gita, that Krsna says, na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. If we see that one is not surrendered to Krsna, he comes to this group: duskrtina, naradhamah and mudha. That's all. This is our conclusion. We are fools and rascal. We take the words of Krsna. He cannot surrender to Krsna on account of duskrtina. Krti means he's doing something meritorious -- but for bad purpose, duskrtina. He is taxing his brain to do something, but against the will of Bhagavad-gita. That is called duskrtina. The purpose of Bhagavad-gita is to surrender to Krsna, or God. But if you are deviating them to become atheists, naradhamah, then what is Bhagavad-gita preaching? You preach Bhagavad-gita as it is. So they take the Bhagavad-gita for serving their purpose. Somebody was telling me that Dr. Radhakrishnan said that "If you take Bhagavad-gita as..., Krsna as God...," something like that, that they deny that Krsna is God. This is Bhagavad-gita preaching. God is speaking Himself-bhagavan uvaca. Vyasadeva (Hindi). Vyasadeva... Who can be better scholar than Vyasadeva? Vidvan. He is recognized vidvan. Veda-Vyasa. All acaryas accept. Vidvams cakre satvata-samhita. So Vyasadeva.... (Hindi) bhagavan uvaca. (Hindi) Cent percent, they are speaking something which is not the purpose of Bhagavad-gita. (Hindi) You can speak whatever you like. You have got that liberty.
Guest (10): Is it, just to satisfy their own ego that they are doing in this way?
Prabhupada: Some reason anyabhilasita. He has got other purpose, not the purpose of preaching Bhagavad-gita. That is called anyabhilasa. So people are infested with anyabhilasa, everyone. Therefore he is living this material life. But that should be zero. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. That you have to... That is sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. If you have got other purposes within yourself, then you'll never understand Bhagavad-gita. This is bhakti.
anyabhilasita-sunyam
jnana-karmady-anavrtam
anukulyena krsnanu-
silanam bhaktir uttama
[Brs. 1.1.11]
And Krsna says, bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. You cannot understand Krsna without bhakti. And this is bhakti, anyabhilasita-sunyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. So they have got full of anyabhilasa, jnana-karma, so they are not bhaktas; they cannot understand Krsna. They are talking nonsense. This is the position. Because they are not bhaktas-karmi, jnani, yogi -- they have got some purpose. Karmi is flatly that "We want this enjoyment." And jnani, he says superficially that brahma satyam jagan mithya: "The jagat is mithya. So we don't want this jagat, but I want mukti, to become one with the Supreme." So that is also anyabhilasa. He does not know it. He's thinking that "I'm better than these karmis. The karmis have got anyabhilasa. So I have rejected that. Brahma-satya. I have taken to Brahman." But that is also anyabhilasa because he wants to become one with the Brahman. Subtle. And yogis, they also want mystic power to show magic. So he also anyabhilasita-purna. So none of them are fit to understand Bhagavad-gita. So Bhagavad-gita will be understood by him who is anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. But none of these karmis, jnanis, yogis, they are anyabhilasita-sunyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. They're anyabhilasita-purnam. They cannot understand Bhagavad-gita. It is not possible. Therefore Krsna said that "You are My very confidential friend. I am talking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Give up all this nonsense. You simply surrender." Guhyad guhyata -- what is that? Find out. Guhyatamam. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3].
Hari-sauri: Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto?
Prabhupada: No, guhyad guhyataram. Before saying sarva dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66], that "My dear Arjuna, you are My very confidential friend. I have spoken to you so many things." What is that?
Hari-sauri: Sarva-guhyatamam bhuyah.
Prabhupada: Sarva-guhyatamam.
Hari-sauri: Srnu me paramam vacah.
Prabhupada: Paramam vacah.
Hari-sauri: Isto 'si me drdham iti tato vaksyami te hitam.
Prabhupada: "Now I am speaking to you. Hear Me now." Then He says sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. Sarva-guhyatamam. "This is the confidential knowledge. And this is open to you because you are My very intimate friend. It is not to be disclosed." Others will not understand. Others will not understand. Sarva-guhyatamam.
Hari-sauri: Sarva-guhyatamam bhuyah srnu me...
Prabhupada: Paramam vacah. Paramam means supreme instruction. Why? Now...?
Hari-sauri: Isto 'si me drdham iti.
Prabhupada: Isto 'si: "I know you are My very sincere devotee and friend." Then?
Hari-sauri: Tato vaksyami te hitam.
Prabhupada: Tato vaksyami te hitam. This is the confidential knowledge. Anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam, anukulyena krsnanu-silanam [Brs. 1.1.11]. You simply act favorably to Krsna. Then agreed: "Yes, I shall fight." Because he understood that "I have to satisfy Krsna, not my whims. I was thinking of my whims, that 'They are my family members. Why shall I fight? Why you are putting me this proposal? So on, so on, so on...' " That... What is that verse? Find out that karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73]. There. There you'll find. Agreed. "Yes." In the beginning he disagreed. Nasto mohah smrtir labdha tvat prasadan madhusudana, karisye vacanam. Nasto mohah. After so much instruction, if his moha is not dissipated, then what is the use? So he said nasto mohah. You could not find?
Hari-sauri: What's the first line?
Prabhupada: Nasto! Why don't you find? You. Give him. He'll find. Why don't you give to Pradyumna?
Hari-sauri: Nasto mohah smrtir labdha?
Prabhupada: Ha!
Hari-sauri:
nasto mohah smrtir labdha
tvat-prasadan mayacyuta
sthito 'smi gata-sandehah
karisye vacanam tava
[Bg. 18.73]
Prabhupada: That's it. Sthito 'smi gata-sandehah. Karisye vacanam. This is liberation: "Now I am fixed up," sthito 'smi, "All doubts gone." This is real study of Bhagavad-gita. And promises, karisye vacanam: "All right, I shall fight. I shall kill Bhismadeva. Never mind he's my grandfather. No question of nonviolence. I shall commit violence." This is Krsna consciousness. Because nasto mohah... "It was my mohah. I was thinking in that way, that 'He's my grandfather. He's my brother. He's my nephew.' These are all nonsense. I have to satisfy You." Karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73]. That is anukulyena krsnanu-silanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Bhakti means to act to satisfy to Krsna. That is bhakti. Without any argument, what Krsna says, that's all right.
Guest (10): Unconditional.
Prabhupada: Unconditional. That is surrender. If we read Bhagavad-gita in that way, then sthito 'smi, then sthita prajna. And if you make cut short... Arjuna said, sarvam etad rtam manye yan mam vadasi kesava [Bg. 10.14]. "Kesava, whatever You have said, I accept it in total." That is surrender. No cut short.
Guest (12) (Indian man): Fulfills all requirements, mental requirements.
Prabhupada: I'll request Bajaji. You are, yourself, your wife and your sister, and our Sriman Narayanaji, all, you are all very intelligent. You take this Bhagavad-gita preaching seriously. That is my request. Not cut short (Hindi). No cut short. Sarvam etad rtam manye [Bg. 10.14]. What is that verse?
Hari-sauri: Sarvam etad rtam manye yan mam vadasi kesava [Bg. 10.14].
Prabhupada: Ah. "Whatever you are saying," yan mam vadasi kesava, "I accept them." No cut short. No mutilation. Then?
Hari-sauri: Na hi te bhagavan vyaktim vidur deva na danavah.
Prabhupada: "Your personality is not understood even by the demigods, what to speak of ordinary men." Then?
Hari-sauri: Vidur deva na danavah.
Prabhupada: What the deva? The demigods do not, what to speak of the demons, danavah. Then? Next verse?
Hari-sauri:
svayam evatmanatmanam
vettha tvam purusottama
bhuta-bhavana bhutesa
deva-deva jagat-pate
Prabhupada: So, param brahma param dhama pavitram [Bg. 10.12]. So sarvam etad rtam manye [Bg. 10.14]. If we accept sarvam etad rtam, as it is, then we benefited, and if we do not accept in that way, then it is nastah. Sa kaleneha mahata yogo nastah parantapa. Then it is being spoiled. And what benefit you will get with spoiled thing? As soon as you interpret it is spoiled, immediately spoiled. So what benefit will be derived from the spoiled things? And that is being done. Don't believe in Krsna, don't believe in the words of Krsna, and if I am preaching Bhagavad-gita, what is the benefit? It is spoiled? So if you distribute some spoiled food, it will increase food poison. That is going on. Instead of taking benefit from a first-class food, if you distribute a spoiled, then there will be food poisoning. That is being done. In India every home knows Bhagavad-gita. And because it is spoiled now there will be food poisoning. They are denying the existence of God. God is speaking -- Bhagavan uvaca -- and they are now..., don't.... They are not believing in the existence of God. "God? Where is God?" Science. This is going on. If we speak of God, then we are "primitive." And up-to-date? "I am God; you are God." This is up to date. And if we say, "Now, God is Krsna. You worship Him. You become devotee," this is primitive. And these Americans, although they are up to date, they have accepted it, my word. I presented them that Krsna is God. They have accepted. This is their qualification.
Guest (10): Supreme Lord.
Prabhupada: Yes. I have told them that Krsna is the Supreme Lord, and they have accepted. This is my magic, and this is their magic. That's all. You ask them if I did any magic with them.
Guest (10): This is magic itself.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes, it is magic. It is magic undoubtedly. But I never created any gold or some other... And neither I do know it, how to do it, although there is no scarcity of gold in my pocket. I started this business with forty rupees. So I'll go to take massage. Thank you very much. (Hindi) ...prasada. Show. Show the film. You are going to show?
Giriraja: Haridasa took the projector, so I don't know when it's coming.
Prabhupada: Why he has? (end)
isvarah sarva bhutanam
hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati
bhramayan sarva bhutani
yantrarudhani mayaya
[Bg. 18.61]
Just like you make a tour by driving a motorcar, similarly, the jivatma is touring all over the universe riding on this machine. This is machine. So... Aiye aiye. Hare Krsna. (guest enters) (Hindi) Aiye. We have arranged for your prasada. Yantrarudhani mayaya. This is machine. This body is machine made by the material energy, as all other machine are made by the ksitir-ap-tejo marud-vyoma, earth, water, air, fire. These are the ingredients, any machine. Suppose it is made of iron. So iron is another form of earth. So as all other machines are made with these material elements, similarly, this body is also made with the material elements, and it is yantra. It is particularly mentioned. But this yantra is not ordinary yantra. You cannot make it. But it is yantra. It is made by somebody, and the ingredients are the material elements. So where is that technology? It is made of matter, and it is made by somebody as other machines are made with the material... [break] ...and made by somebody. So where is that advancement of technology? A motorcar, when stops, technology department can repair it and again it runs. So where is that advancement of technology that when this machine stops you run on, again repair it? This was my challenge in your institution. Can you answer this? You have got so many advancement, the nuclear energy and everything. But why you cannot give life to the machine stopped? Why?
Guest (1) (Indian man): There's no soul in it.
Prabhupada: That is the fact, we know. We know that is a fact, that... My point is that the modern age, they are very much proud of advanced technology. So where is that knowledge? And why people do not tax their brains to get this knowledge? This is very important subject matter. But where is that knowledge? And why they do not try to do it? We get information from the Supreme Personality of Godhead that this jiva, the driver... Not driver. The passenger. We are passenger, and driver is God, and machine made by material energy, maya... Yantrarudhani mayaya. The similarity is there. Just like motorcar is manufactured by somebody and the passenger is there and the driver is there, similarly, this is a machine made by maya. I am the passenger, and God is driver. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati bhramayan [Bg. 18.61]. Bhramayan, the driver, the passenger of the owner, he is asking, "Mr. Driver, you go this way." So He's driving. Just like the same -- Arjuna is asking Krsna, senayor ubhayor madhye ratham sthapaya me 'cyuta: [Bg. 1.21] "Just between these two parties of soldiers, please keep my chariot." The same thing. The chariot driver, He is the Supersoul. In this body there are two souls. Ksetra-jnam capi mam viddhi sarva-ksetresu bharata. That he's also ksetrajna. Ksetra is this body, and ksetrajna one knows, this body.... Just like I know it is my finger. I never say, "I finger." It is my finger. So similarly, the driver also can say, "It is my car," and the proprietor also can say. So two persons, one driver and one passenger, or the proprietor.... And the body is machine. The subjects are there. Why you do not try to understand the subject matter? Then where is your advancement? That is my challenge. Why you are so much proud of your advancement of knowledge. What is this knowledge? Tell me. You are young man. I am giving you the challenge. Either you admit that you are not advanced or make advancement. Why you set aside this difficult subject matter and become proud by making a small machine that you are advanced? Where is your advancement? (Hindi) He is Mr. Bajaj, the proprietor of the Bajaj Electricity.
Guest (2) (Indian man): Maharaja, in the context of the universe, the technological and scientific advancement is very, very insignificant. But as far as human beings are concerned, they feel that they have achieved great deal.
Prabhupada: Why? You cannot give life.
Guest (2): Because there is a change from the past. So they feel that there is a difference. But that is at a very low level...
Prabhupada: That is my point, that you are becoming so much proud of your technological..., but what you have done?
Guest (2): It is very insignificant.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is my point. Why you become falsely proud that you have done so advancement that you don't care for God, you don't care for the original manufacturer? That is your fault.
Guest (2): The other day there was a doctor who had come from America for transplantation of kidney, and he has given a lecture in the Rotary Club. I was there. Now they give so much importance to the person who is able to transplant kidney from one body to the other, but how about the whole human being or the universe which has been created by God? Now, this is just a very, very insignificant thing which is already there which is just transplanted. But they feel so happy and proud.
Prabhupada: That is my point, falsely proud.
Guest (2): And Maharaja, are they able to increase the life by a single moment?
Prabhupada: They cannot.
Guest (2): They say they have achieved so much. Are they able to increase it by even a single moment?
Prabhupada: No. This breathing is given there, that "You must breathe so many million times. Bas, finished." Just like you wind the watch. It will run or go round so many times. As soon as the finish, then stop.
Guest (3) (Indian man): Unwound, it is finished.
Prabhupada: The energy is limited. So by the yogic process they increase because they stop breathing. Breathing is limited. Just like you have got bank balance, two hundred thousand. If you don't spend, then it remains
Guest (3): But you got to breathe. You can't stop breathing.
Prabhupada: No, no, by yogic process, you can stop breathing.
Guest (3): Stop breathing or lengthen it?
Prabhupada: Stop breathing means you don't spend. You have got a limited breathing period. By yogic process, you stop breathing, but you remain. That is mystic yoga. So similarly, you can simply increase your life by not using the breathing process. That is pranayama. That is pranayama. So... But you cannot exceed the limit. That is not possible. (Hindi) You don't keep hygienic life. (Hindi) You infect. That is your fault. (Hindi) To live ordinarily healthy life, that is... But if you transgress the hygienic principle, if you transgress the law of nature, you must suffer. Similarly, we are suffering in this material world -- the covering is there -- because we wanted to transgress the laws of God. Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare. When we forget our relationship with Krsna, that "Krsna is the original master, and I am the servant," as soon as you forget this relationship, this is contamination, immediately. Everyone is trying to become another Krsna. This is struggle. Here in this material world you'll find everyone is trying to become very, very big-big leader, big politician, big businessman, big, big, big. But he is not big. That is the disease. He is not big, and he's trying to become big.
Guest (3): This Khorana has put out one (gene?), and if it keeps growing, it will really havoc with artificial development.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Giriraja: He says Dr. Khorana, he has made a gene.
Prabhupada: Gene?
Guest (2): Living cell.
Prabhupada: What it is?
Giriraja: Yes, they take it that the hereditary qualities that a person inherits is determined by these genes. So now they're thinking that if they can control the genes, they can create their own type of human being according to their own...
Prabhupada: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future" -- these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came. He has gained the Nobel Prize, Chemical Evolution. They are trying to prove that life is generated by chemical evolution. So in that meeting I had my one student. He's Dr. Svarupa Damodara. He's also big chemist. So he knows. He talks with me. He has got the idea. He has written one book, Scientific Basis of Krsna Consciousness. So he challenged that "Suppose if I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" The answer -- "That I cannot say." Why he talks nonsense? He is theorizing that life is made of chemicals, but if you give the chemicals, why you cannot make life? When I was in South Africa... Where is that? Pretoria or something? There are many factories for chicken killing. Chicken incubator. So one of the students, worker there, I said, "Suppose this is a chicken factory. So take one egg and analyze the chemicals. There is some white substance, yellow substance. It is covered with some cell. You can do it, and put that in the incubator and get a chicken. Why don't you do that?" The rascal could not answer. "Don't talk of big, big life. Make a chicken." And this rascal cannot do that, and still, they'll talk big, big words. What do you think? Are they not rascals? These rascals they are talking big, big words. First of all prove. Make one egg. Then talk of big, big brain. Make one egg. It is... Everyone can see. There is some white chemicals and some yellow chemicals, and it is covered, and it... You analyze and combine the chemical in the same way and put it in the incubator and get one chicken. Why? You are technologist. Say why they cannot do it. And when they cannot do it, why they talk so big, big word, mislead others and mislead himself?
Guest (4) (Indian man): No, they feel so proud because...
Prabhupada: Foolish.
Guest (4): ...God's creation is so huge and vast and unfathomable. If they are able to unravel even a small part of it which was not known to human beings beforehand. So they are so proud. They don't say that they can do what God can do.
Prabhupada: No, it is known. It is known. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva-bhutah: [Bg. 15.7] "This life is my part and parcel." As soon as you study what is this life, you understand Krsna, quality, what is Krsna. So here is the hint, that Krsna said mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. So it is very small particle. That is also mentioned in the sastra:
kesagra-sata-bhagasya
satadha kalpitasya ca
jivo bhagasya vijneyah
sa anantaya kalpate
[Cc. Madhya 19.140]
The measurement of soul is given there in the sastra: one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So everything is there. It is not matter. And that is instructed in the Bhagavad-gita. Nayam sastra... Acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam akledyo 'sosya eva ca. "This spiritual spark cannot be cut into pieces." Acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam: "It cannot be burned into the fire." So... (aside:) Come on. But these rascals, they are seeing that "The body is burnt into ashes, so everything is finished." And Krsna says, adahyo 'yam: "It cannot be burned." So it remains. And that transmigrates. And that small particle you have no eyes to see. You say, therefore, "Why shall I believe transmigration?" How nature's law is working so subtle way? Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. But the ahankara-vimudhatma. I say, rascal, not manufactured by me. Ahankara vimudha. Vimudha means a great rascal. Mudha means rascal, ass, and vi, visesa, particularly, first-class ass, vimudha. Under false pride, he is thinking, "I am everything." Ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti... [Bg. 3.27]. "I can do anything by science, by this technology." That's... Vimudhatma, great rascals. And these great rascals, they are leading the world. Therefore people are in darkness. They have become leaders, the so-called scientists and educationists and political leaders. All set of rascals, and they have become leaders. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. They are blind, and they are leading other blind men, so people are kept in darkness, and the opportunity of this human life is lost. By nature's way, by evolutionary process, we get this human form of life. Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. Manusya, arthadam. Prahlada Maharaja says durlabham manusam janma. Such life, important life, they are wasting like cats and dogs. So this is education; this is advancement. People are not given the opportunity to utilize this valuable life for understanding higher things. This is plight of this civilization. They are growing like cats and dogs and dying like cats and dogs. And yatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13], and according to his work, he has to accept another body. That is nature's law. So in this life I am very big man, but by work, karmana daiva netrena [SB 3.31.1], by superior administration, I have to accept a body of dog. Then what is the value of your being great now? That technology is unknown, although it is stated there in the Bhagavad-gita. Everything is. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. So Krsna never says that "You'll get such and such body." Dehantara. "You'll have to change the body." Now, suppose... There are 8,400,000 types of bodies. Suppose next time I become a tree. Then just see horrible position. Here is a tree. I am within this room, sitting so comfortably, and the tree is standing there. I can get that life also, karmana, by my work. So this technology is unknown. And we are very much proud of advancement of knowledge. Boliye. Am I right or wrong?
Guest (4): I don't know. I've never given very serious thought considering and...
Prabhupada: Well, these are not the subject matter for serious thought? Do you think? You are under the grip of the laws of material nature. Do you admit or not?
Guest (4): Yes.
Prabhupada: Then why you should be under the grip of material nature? And if there is way, why should you not take? Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te.
Guest (2): Our analysis...
Prabhupada: Analysis... (Hindi) Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. So why you are trying to get better position? That should be the endeavor, that we may get better position.
Guest (2): Sat-sanga.
Prabhupada: Sat-sanga, satam prasangat. The sat-sanga... We know that word only, but if we don't take advantage, then what is meaning?
Guest (5) (Indian man): Execution part is more important of the sat-sanga.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, sat-sanga means sat. Sat means which is true and not contaminated. That is sat. Om tat sat. So sat-sanga means to associate with spiritual knowledge. That is sat.
Guest (5): And execution of the discourse.
Prabhupada: Well, sanga means execution. When you associate with medical association or sharebrokers' association, simply go there and sit down is not your business. You have to do something. You have to do something. Sat-sanga means that. Tad-yosanat asu apavarga-vartmani. Sat-sanga means you have to take the knowledge and use it for practical purpose. That is sat-sanga. So our this Krsna consciousness movement is trying to give the sat-sanga, opening centers all over the world. If people take advantage of it they'll be benefited. But if he is ahankara-vimudhatma, then it is very unfortunate. Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah [SB 1.1.10]. This is Kali-yuga. The leaders also do not associate with sat, and they create their own imagination. Sat, om tat sat. Bhagavan is the supreme sat. So they do not care for Bhagavan, so there is no sat-sanga. Asat-sanga.
sat-sanga chadi kainu asate vilasa
te karane lagi more karma bandha phansa
"I given up sat-sanga, and I am trying to enjoy asat." Asato ma sad gamaya. That is Vedic injunction. "But I do not care for sat-sanga." Sat-sanga chadi. You have to take up something after giving up something. So our present position is sat-sanga chadi kainu asate vilasa. "I have given up sat-sanga, and I am trying to enjoy in asat. The result is I am entangled in karma bandha phansa. According to karma, I am changing my body, and today I am human being and tomorrow I am a dog. And again from dog to another body, another body." This is going on.
Guest (6) (Indian man): Asato ma sama grad? You said, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Sad gamaya.
Guest (6): So the translation of it?
Prabhupada: Sad means "Try to come to the transcendental platform, sat, and don't remain in this asat." Asat means which is temporary.
Guest (6): And tamasi ma jyotir gamaya.
Prabhupada: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilasa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilasa. So sat sanga chadi kainu asate vilasa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on. And the real technology, that "I am not this body; I have been put into this condition, and I am transmigrating from one body to another" -- there is no such knowledge. For the temporary.... [break] ...temporary thing, flickering thing, like children. Children is very busy on the beach, making sand palaces, and he's very happy. So our position is like that. But we should be intelligent enough that "There is our real life, permanent life, not this temporary life," that "This life is temporary. There is another life." Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. "This sarira is not..." Avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam tatam. So many things.... The Bhagavad-gita is full of information, but we don't take advantage. We are so unfortunate. And it is our country. This is Indian culture. We have given up this. (Hindi) Gandhiji, he was supposed to be a great student of Bhagavad-gita. And the such a big asrama, Sevagrama. Where is Bhagavad-gita arcana? Boliye.
Guest (7) (Indian man): Bhagavad-gita is a way of life...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest (7): And is what has to be followed by those who believe in it.
Prabhupada: Believe or not believe, that is another thing. But if you want to live worthy, then you have to study Bhagavad-gita. You believe... Just like somebody believes or not believes in dehantara, but nature's course will go on. Young man thinks "I'll remain young. I shall not become old man." He may believe like that, but he has to become old man. That is nature's law. So there is no question of "believe" or "not believe." If you believe, then you are benefited; if you don't believe, you go to hell. It is not the question of belief. I was speaking in South Africa in a university. So one gentleman, Arya-samaji said... When I was explaining tatha dehantara-praptih, so he objected that "Why you bring Hindu belief?" "And, nonsense, it is Hindu belief?" It is said that kaumaram yauvanam jara: one boy is becoming young man. Is this for Hindu? It is not for the Muslim? And he said "Hindu belief." Such a fool he is. He said, "It is Hindu belief." Krsna is giving this example. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam [Bg. 2.13]. Kaumaram yauvanam jara. So does it mean that Hindus only from kaumara become yuvaka, and from yuvaka to old man, and the Muslims, they do not? It is science! You believe or not believe. If you don't take the fact, then your life is missing. What is the question? Two plus two equal to four -- it is not Hindu calculation, Muslim calculation or Christian calculation. You cannot say that "No, according to our Muslim calculation, two plus two equal to five." Two plus two is always four, either for a Hindu or Muslim or Christian. So whatever is spoken in the Bhagavad-gita, that is for understanding of the human society. Why do you take: "It is Hindu belief. It is Indian belief"? It is science. That is our misfortune, that a science we are accepting as a kind of belief, faith. And that we are neglecting. That is our misfortune.
Guest (4): We are the victims of the British Empire who ruled us.
Prabhupada: Huh? No, you are victims of yourself. Why...? British is not here now.
Guest (8) (Indian man): We are indoctrined.
Prabhupada: British is not here now.
Guest (8): No, they have indoctrined such a philosophy.
Guest (2): But what was there before British came? This is human weakness of our own.
Prabhupada: It is... You... You have been taught that Krsna is an ordinary person, maybe little more in knowledge. That you are taking like that. Kupa-manduka-nyaya. Kupa-manda, the toad in the well, he is informed, "Oh, I have seen one Atlantic Ocean." So he is thinking "Atlantic Ocean may be.... This well is three feet. It may be four feet. Or five. Come on, ten." These rascals are thinking like that -- avajananti mam mudha [Bg. 9.11] -- that "Krsna may be more intelligent by one feet or two feet. Let us compromise-ten feet." This is going on. And Krsna says, mattah parataram nanyat: [Bg. 7.7] "I am the Supreme." They won't believe. They'll manufacture their ideas. This is going on. Aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]. They won't believe that. And still, they'll declare, "I am student of Bhagavad-gita." They won't believe a word of Krsna, and they'll say, "I am student of Bhagavad-gita." This is going on. This is our position. In India everyone says, "I have read Bhagavad-gita three hundred times," but he does not know even a word. So this should be stopped. If we want to advance actually, you take every word of Bhagavad-gita and try to apply in life. Then everyone will be happy. That is a fact. The instruction is there. There is no difficulty to understand. There is no question of interpretation. Simply take it as it is and try to apply it in life -- you'll be happy. And your human life will be successful. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Up to this human form of life, we have passed through so many evolutionary process, but if you understand Krsna, then, after leaving this body, no more material body.
janma karma ca divyam
me yo janati tattvatah
tyaktva deham punar janma
naiti mam eti...
[Bg. 4.9]
And that is success. If you simply study Krsna, then your life is successful.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Yes, sahaja, this is sahaja. You are part and parcel of Krsna. Sahaja. Sahaja means you are born along with Krsna. Krsna is neither born, neither you are born. Sahaja, this word, means saha ja, "along with born." So you are part and parcel. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. When I was born the finger was also born. This is saha-ja. The finger was not separately born. When I was born, the finger was born. So similarly, so long God is there, I am also there. So God is eternal; I am also eternal. You understand this? Then why you are changing bodies? And that is knowledge.
Guest (9) (Indian man): No, why do we at all enter into this circle?
Prabhupada: That I have already explained. You want to be a separate Krsna. That is your ambition.
Guest (9): Initial thing is that.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is initial. A servant, big man's servant... That is natural, that "If I would have become the master." So a servant, if he wants to become the master, that is artificial. A servant remains a servant -- he is happy. And as soon as he tries artificially to become the master, that is the beginning of distress. So we are eternal servant of God. As soon as we try to become God, that is the beginning of our suffering.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) The starting is there. Iccha-dvesa-samutthena sarge yanti parantapa [Bg. 7.27]. (Hindi) Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare, pasate maya tare japatiya dhare. As soon as you desire like this, that "I shall become God," so immediately there is maya. That is maya. So when you are entangled in maya, then there is question of mukti. The mukti means muktir hitva 'nyatha rupam svarupena avasthitih. This is mukti. Mukti means when we are acting differently. That is my condition. That is my bondage. And when I act according to my original position, that is mukti. So everyone is acting here to become master. So there is no question of mukti. As soon as you understand that "My real position is I am servant of God, so let me act as serv..." -- then it is mukti. Hitva 'nyatha rupam. At the present moment we are trying to act as master. So you give it down, up. Act as servant. Then you are mukta. Therefore a bhakta is mukta. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate. Mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena-bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. Anyone who is engaged as bhakta, he is mukta. All are conditioned. So if you become bhakta, if you surrender to Krsna, immediately mukti, instantly. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo [Bg. 18.66]. You are conditioned, you are bound up on account of your sinful activities. So Krsna says, "I'll give you relief from all the reaction of sinful activity. You surrender." So mukti means one second. You surrender to Krsna. It takes one second. But that is very difficult. That requires many, many births. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of suffering, when he comes to the knowledge that "I am servant of Krsna. Why I am trying to become master?" that is jnanavan. And then he surrenders to.... Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma [Bg. 7.19]. That is mahatma. It takes one second.
Guest (10) (Indian man): Prabhupada, surrender, sar..., word, if you can give us a full explanation of the word surrender. What's the meaning of surrender and how one should do it? Basis of surrender.
Prabhupada: Surrender, this is surrender, that... First of all, why you surrender? You must know it perfectly well that "Krsna is master; I am servant." Otherwise there is no question of surrender. Then you have to believe that "Krsna says, aham tvam sarva papebhyo moksayisyami. So now I have surrendered. I have no more fear. Krsna will give me protection." To believe firmly... "Krsna is all powerful. Krsna is my master. He is not a fakir, that He's talking nonsense." We have to believe that. This is surrender. If you think, "Krsna is another fakir like me. He's talking nonsense," then that is not surrender. You have to believe that. That is explained in the Caitanya-caritamrta, that sraddha sabde visvasa niscaya. This is sraddha. Sraddha is the beginning. That sraddha means when you firmly believe in Krsna: "Yes, He'll give me protection." That is surrender. Krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. When you come to this stage, firmly believe in the words of Krsna, that is surrender. First of all, you have to check yourself whether you firmly believe in the words of God. If you don't believe, there is no question of surrender. Then you remain where you are. This is firm belief: "Krsna says that He will give me protection. So let me surrender. I have surrendered to maya. I have not become happy. So why not surrender to Krsna?" This is intelligence. You are not free. Then why you are declaring yourself as free? This is your disease. So intelligent means that I have no freedom actually. I am acting under the dictation of my senses. I am servant of my senses. So why not become servant of Krsna? This is intelligent. Everyone is acting under senses, order of the senses. Kamadinam kathidha na kathida palita durni-desah. Even I don't want to do it, something wrong, but my senses are dictating, so "All right, let me do it." So we are... I am servant of the senses. My position is twofold. Either I become the servant of the senses or I become servant of Krsna. My position is the same. Simply I have to change it.
Guest (10): How to run away from the senses? I, being a servant of the senses, how to run away from the senses?
Prabhupada: Yes. You are servant. That is gosvami. That is svami, gosvami. Svami means when he's no longer servant of the senses, a master of the senses. That is svami.
Guest (10): How to come to that position?
Prabhupada: That requires education, training. You have become a lawyer not in one day. You have been trained up. Then you are lawyer. Similarly, everyone has to be trained up how to become perfect servant, but he must agree in the beginning that "Now I shall become servant of Krsna." Then everything is there. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sango 'tha bhajana-kriya tato 'nartha-nivrttih syat tato nistha tato rucih tatah athasaktih tato bhavah [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. These are the different stages. Adau sraddha: "Yes. Now Krsna says, 'You surrender.' I'll surrender. I believe in this, firmly believe." Sraddha-sabde visvasa sudrdha niscaya. This sraddha means when you firmly believe that "Krsna will give me all protection if I surrender." And that is the beginning of sraddha.
Guest (10): Faith. Firm faith.
Prabhupada: Faith. Yes. Faith means firm faith. Faith does not mean... Anyway, adau sraddha. This sraddha, if we increase this sraddha, you have to associate with sadhu.. And who is sadhu? Bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva samantavyah. He is sadhu, who is simply engaged in Krsna's service. He is sadhu. Api cet suduracarah: "Even though you find there is some discrepancies in his character, because he is fully engaged in My service, he is sadhu." Sadhur eva sa mantavyah samyag vyavasito hi sah [Bg. 9.30]. If he has got other engagement, he is not sadhu. Anyabhilasita-sunyam: [Brs. 1.1.11] "Other engagement zero." That is sadhu. The sadhu-sanga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. You have to associate with such sadhus who are cent percent engaged in Krsna's service. Adau sraddha tato sadhu-sangah tato bhajana-kriya. If you mix with the sadhu, then you'll learn the activities. Sadhu-marganugamanam. The sadhus are rising early in the morning; they are attending mangala arati, they are reading Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, then dressing the Deity and having arati and so on, so on, so on. This is called bhajana-kriya. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sango 'tha bhajana [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Then anartha-nivrttih syat: then all these material activities will stop. Because if you are engaged in spiritual act..., where is your time for material activities, for drinking wine and eating meat and going to the restaurant and...? No time. These boys, although they are trained up from childhood how to eat meat, how to drink, but now they have no time. They never ask me, "Swamiji, give me one rupee. I shall go to the cinema." Never. They have no time. Anartha-nivrttih syat, all anarthas finished. These are the stages. Then his life becomes of devotion. Athasaktih nistha: "Yes, I shall stick to Krsna consciousness." Tato nistha rucih. Rucih means taste. Unless they have got taste, why they should remain with me? They are not coming from poor family. His father is a big lawyer. You know? Yes. So why he is living with me? He has got taste, rucis. Tato nistha tato rucih, athasaktih. Asaktih, attachment. Whenever I am there, they are coming. Asaktih. Tato bhavah. "Oh, I am servant of Krsna. I have to do this." These are the different stages. Sadhakanam ayam premnah pradurbhave bhavet kramah. These are the different stages, kramah. Kramah means gradual evolution. So you have to take that gradual evolution. But it will be done if you remain with the associate. Sangat sanjayate kamah. They are giving this opportunity. Come here in our association and learn the art. I have seen in Bombay. The other day I went to a gentleman's apartment. He is.... The gentleman is earning two thousand, and the wife is earning seven hundred. But they are living in an apartment of this size. Within this, there is bedroom, and there is kitchen, and there is toilet, and everything is there. And if we say people, "Please come here. Take a room like this and chant Hare Krsna," they'll not come. They'll prefer to remain in that tiny apartment. Am I right or not? Manda-bhagya. Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah [SB 1.1.10]. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has declared, ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kono bhagyavan jiva. They are rotting or rotating within this universe in different species of life. But if by chance he becomes fortunate, then take to Krsna consciousness.
ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kono bhagyavan jiva
guru-krsna krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija
[Cc. Madhya 19.151]
All living entities are rotting in this way, but if some of them or one of them becomes very fortunate, then by the grace of guru and Krsna he gets this line of devotional service. It is for the most fortunate person, not ordinary.
Guest (10): What's the difference between grace and mercy?
Prabhupada: Grace means he'll willingly give you mercy, and mercy means you ask for mercy. Krpa-siddha. Sadhana-siddha and krpa-siddha. You are trying to earn one lakh of rupees -- that is sadhana. But if somebody is gracious he can give you: "Take one lakh of rupees. Don't work hard." That is grace. That is krpa. You are ambitious for one lakh of rupees or somebody graciously give you: "All right, take." There are many persons. So that is grace. Otherwise, you earn by your hard labor. That is sadhana. Similarly, by association, by sadhana-bhakti, you attain perfection, and by grace also, you can attain perfection. Two ways. So those who are krpa-siddha, they are more fortunate. (Hindi) Preach this Bhagavad-gita as it is. People will be benefited. You'll be benefited. Don't make unnecessary interpretation, misguide others and spoil your own life. That is very unfortunate. What is the difficulty to accept Bhagavad-gita? There is no difficulty. Unfortunately we interpret in different way and take it other way. So our little attempt is to spread Bhagavad-gita as it is, and whatever it may be, it is being accepted in the Western countries. Not by all. But the people in general, now the... Feeling the weight, they have now began opposing.
Indian man: Have seen the new light.
Prabhupada: Yes. They're opposing me very vigorously in America.
Indian man: And that is a good sign.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is our victory, when there is opposition, and that is our victory. In spite of opposition, we are selling our books in large quantity. Yes. Large quantity. What is the one week sale that? Eighteen lakhs or something like...
Giriraja: In one week, the books, total of books, was seven lakhs books in one week.
Indian man: In one week? That would be hundred thousand dollars.
Prabhupada: No, no. More than. Eh? Seven lakhs?
Guest (11) (Indian man): But mostly they are in America. Also in that number in Japan?
Prabhupada: No, America. And opposition is also in America. No, Europe and America, they are taking.
Guest (10): Opposition is natural. Because you are converting their churches into temples.
Prabhupada: No, there are many... First thing is that my students are advised, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication up to the point of smoking cigarette and drinking tea, and no gambling." But this is their life. How they can give up this? That is... It is a shock. Therefore they say, "brainwashing," that "How a gentleman can give up all these things?" Many... No many. A few of my students, they left. They said that "Swamiji is denying the primary necessities of life." They left. They could not tolerate even. So I do not make any compromise. That you want to become my student you have to give up these things. So the responsible parents, they are appreciating that "My son is now purified." But some of them, there are...
Guest (2): They feel that you are kidnapping their children. (laughs)
Prabhupada: And therefore they are kidnapping. His father, mother came in Calcutta. His mother asked, "Swamiji, please return my son." And "Take your son."
Guest (2): He?
Prabhupada: "Return my son." And "Take your son." And then he was asked, and he was silent. So mother began to cry. So I promised that "I shall send your son. He'll go. Don't bother." His father, mother came. And many father, mother come to give me thanks, "Swamiji, it is great fortune of our country that you have come."
Guest (10): Similar instance about a man swami also, Parsee boy who is now in Hyderabad.
Giriraja: Mahamsa.
Prabhupada: Her (His) said, mother in the beginning she opposed. Yes, she is happy now.
Guest (10): She wants to meet you, Prabhupada. Can I bring her tomorrow?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Guest (2): You are going to Kumbha Mela tomorrow?
Prabhupada: Day after. So our movement is genuine. Now it is up to you to help this movement. And there is no concoction. From... Sa evayam maya te 'dya yogah proktah puratanah [Bg. 4.3]. As Krsna said five thousand years ago, yogah proktah puratanah, so we are also presenting that puratanah. This philosophy is not new. Puratanah. So we have nothing to tax our brain to manufacture something new. So people give me credit: "Swamiji, you have done wonderful, wonderful." I do not know magic. But I am presenting puratanah, that's all, no adulteration. If there is any credit, the credit is this-yogah proktah puratanah.
Guest (4): Puratanah and Sasvata,
Prabhupada: Puratanah means sasvata. Yes. Nityah sasvato 'yam puratanah. So the sun is puratanah. The sun is puratanah, but the shining is the same. And similarly if we present the puratanah yoga, then it is effective. Then it is effective.
Guest (3): Swamiji, I wanted to know the importance of Kumbha Mela.
Prabhupada: This is the assembly of great saintly persons. That's all.
Guest (3): No, if we people go there at Kumbha Mela time, is it good?
Prabhupada: Is it not good if so many saintly persons will come? The atmosphere is so nice.
Guest (3): So many people accumulate.
Prabhupada: Yes. Not only... Not people, but saintly persons. Yes. They have actually executed bhajana, sadhana. Brahmeti paramatmeti. Maybe somebody is brahmavadi, somebody paramatmavadi, somebody bhaktas, but they're transcendental. They're not materialistic persons. So you get their association sadhu-sanga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sangah [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. The Sadhu-sanga is essential. And that is our civilization. Sadhu-sanga.
Guest (11): So many people come with one wish and the whole atmosphere is charged...
Prabhupada: Yes, spiritual... Sadhu-sanga, (Hindi).
Guest (2): Sadhu-sanga, of course, is very important. Getting to take a dip in Ganges at that, during this period, has that got any particular significance apart from sadhu-sanga?
Prabhupada: Yes. There is. At least your faith is increased. With faith you take a dip. Faith cure. And Ganges herself is purifying.
Guest (2): No. Is there special significance during this period? That is all the time.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is... The significance is sadhu-sanga, purification. Our Vedic principle is: whatever is enjoined in the Vedas, we should accept it without any argument. That is Vedic injunction. This example we give generally: just like sankha. Sankha is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic system, if you touch the bone of an animal, dead body animal, then you have to take bath immediately. But the sankha is pure. Now, you cannot argue that "It is the bone of an animal. You say one place that 'Bone of animal is impure. You have to take bath; you have touched it,' and this sankha is in their Deity worship? It is contradictory." But because it is stated in the Vedas, you have to accept. This is Vedic injunction. You cannot argue. There is no question of arguing. Just like cow dung is the stool of an animal. Even if we touch my own stool, I take bath. But cow dung, it is said, it is pure. If there is anywhere impure, you smear the cow dung; it will be pure. Now, you can argue that "It is stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" This argument will not... So Vedic knowledge means don't argue. You have to accept it. Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tas tarkena yojayet. Things... There are many things which is beyond your perception, so you have to accept the Vedic injunction. Then you are right. So if the Vedic injunction is: "In such and such moment you take a bath in the Ganges; you become purified," you take it. There is no question of argument. That is faith. Now faith must be there. Vedo-pranihito dharmah. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Everything is there. Can you find out this verse from the Sixth Canto?
Jagadisa: I know the verse.
Prabhupada: Sixth Canto, First Part. Veda-pranihito dhar... Yamaraja's instruction. Er, the Yamadutas explain what is dharma, veda-pranihito dharmah. Where you found the page? (?)
Pradyumna:
yamaduta ucuh
veda-pranihito dharmo
hy adharmas tad-viparyayah
vedo narayanah saksat
svayambhur iti susruma
Prabhupada: What is the translation?
Pradyumna: "The Yamadutas replied: That which is prescribed in the Vedas constitutes dharma, the religious principles, and the opposite of that is irreligion."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: "The Vedas are directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana, and are self-born. This we have heard from Yamaraja."
Prabhupada: "This we have heard." This is authority. If you have heard from the authority, that is knowledge. If you have manufactured, that is nonsense. Iti susruma. You'll find Arjuna also speaking with Krsna-iti susruma. And Sukadeva Gosvami, he is such a learned scholar. He also -- iti sus..., that... This is our knowledge: to hear and receive the knowledge from higher authority. In the ordinary way also, the students go to the college, they hear from the professor. That is knowledge. He does not go to a pan-walla to hear. One who is authorized, professor, we hear from him. Similarly, we have to get knowledge from the authority. So supreme authority is Krsna. So hear from Him. Then it is knowledge. Otherwise tad ajnanam yad anyatha. What is that? Tad anya...?
Pradyumna: Etaj jnanam iti proktam.
Prabhupada: Iti proktam and yad anyatha ajnanam: "Besides this," anyatha, "that is all ajnanam." So we can take perfect knowledge from Krsna. There is no difficulty. But we deny: "Why shall I take?" That is our disease. The same thing: "I am also Krsna. I can also speak like Krsna." This is...
Indian man: Aham.
Prabhupada: Ahankara-vimudhatma. Not only aham. Aham is good. Aham brahmasmi. That is good. But ahankara-vimudhatma, when he becomes rascal by false ahankara, then it is dangerous. It is dangerous. And that is going on, these dangerous leaders, by ahankara, spoiling the whole atmosphere. That is dangerous. Our preaching is... We say that "Here is Krsna speaking. He says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So you simply think of Krsna, and you chant His name and go to the temple, offer your obeisances. And if you can, offer something for His puja." Bas. Our mission is completed. Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. The words are there. [break] (Hindi) Ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27].
Giriraja: About fifteen more minutes.
Prabhupada: Hm? So I can go and take my massage now. (Hindi)
Giriraja: Actually we could show the book movie. I don't think anyone here has seen it.
Prabhupada: Ah. Yes.
Giriraja: (aside:) You didn't see that. Okay I'll get that. It's a very short movie, fifteen minutes. Very inspiring.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) The real purport of Bhagavad-gita is to surrender to Krsna. Then it is successful. (Hindi) If you take Bhagavad-gita, the speaker of Bhagavad-gita says this is the purpose: man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. Duskrtino naradhamah. That... Na mam prapadyante mudha duskrtino naradhamah. "One who does not do that, he is sinful, duskrtino mudhah. And fool, rascal, naradhamah, lowest of the mankind." He is chastising like that. So if you have got other purpose, that means you come to this group. Duskrtino mudha naradhamah.
Guest (7): So about (Hindi) Ramakrishna Mission.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) But why do you take Bhagavad-gita? You are free to do whatever you like. That freedom is given. Krsna has given. Ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. That you have got. But when you speak of Bhagavad-gita, then you speak what Krsna wants.
Guest (7): You should take Bhagavad-gita as it is. You explain it but not interpret it.
Prabhupada: There is no need of interpretation.
Indian man: You can explain it in the language which people can understand.
Prabhupada: Explanation also not very much required because the explanation is already there, and we are not so intelligent that we can explain. But we take it, the words of the Bhagavad-gita, that Krsna says, na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. If we see that one is not surrendered to Krsna, he comes to this group: duskrtina, naradhamah and mudha. That's all. This is our conclusion. We are fools and rascal. We take the words of Krsna. He cannot surrender to Krsna on account of duskrtina. Krti means he's doing something meritorious -- but for bad purpose, duskrtina. He is taxing his brain to do something, but against the will of Bhagavad-gita. That is called duskrtina. The purpose of Bhagavad-gita is to surrender to Krsna, or God. But if you are deviating them to become atheists, naradhamah, then what is Bhagavad-gita preaching? You preach Bhagavad-gita as it is. So they take the Bhagavad-gita for serving their purpose. Somebody was telling me that Dr. Radhakrishnan said that "If you take Bhagavad-gita as..., Krsna as God...," something like that, that they deny that Krsna is God. This is Bhagavad-gita preaching. God is speaking Himself-bhagavan uvaca. Vyasadeva (Hindi). Vyasadeva... Who can be better scholar than Vyasadeva? Vidvan. He is recognized vidvan. Veda-Vyasa. All acaryas accept. Vidvams cakre satvata-samhita. So Vyasadeva.... (Hindi) bhagavan uvaca. (Hindi) Cent percent, they are speaking something which is not the purpose of Bhagavad-gita. (Hindi) You can speak whatever you like. You have got that liberty.
Guest (10): Is it, just to satisfy their own ego that they are doing in this way?
Prabhupada: Some reason anyabhilasita. He has got other purpose, not the purpose of preaching Bhagavad-gita. That is called anyabhilasa. So people are infested with anyabhilasa, everyone. Therefore he is living this material life. But that should be zero. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. That you have to... That is sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. If you have got other purposes within yourself, then you'll never understand Bhagavad-gita. This is bhakti.
anyabhilasita-sunyam
jnana-karmady-anavrtam
anukulyena krsnanu-
silanam bhaktir uttama
[Brs. 1.1.11]
And Krsna says, bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. You cannot understand Krsna without bhakti. And this is bhakti, anyabhilasita-sunyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. So they have got full of anyabhilasa, jnana-karma, so they are not bhaktas; they cannot understand Krsna. They are talking nonsense. This is the position. Because they are not bhaktas-karmi, jnani, yogi -- they have got some purpose. Karmi is flatly that "We want this enjoyment." And jnani, he says superficially that brahma satyam jagan mithya: "The jagat is mithya. So we don't want this jagat, but I want mukti, to become one with the Supreme." So that is also anyabhilasa. He does not know it. He's thinking that "I'm better than these karmis. The karmis have got anyabhilasa. So I have rejected that. Brahma-satya. I have taken to Brahman." But that is also anyabhilasa because he wants to become one with the Brahman. Subtle. And yogis, they also want mystic power to show magic. So he also anyabhilasita-purna. So none of them are fit to understand Bhagavad-gita. So Bhagavad-gita will be understood by him who is anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. But none of these karmis, jnanis, yogis, they are anyabhilasita-sunyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. They're anyabhilasita-purnam. They cannot understand Bhagavad-gita. It is not possible. Therefore Krsna said that "You are My very confidential friend. I am talking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Give up all this nonsense. You simply surrender." Guhyad guhyata -- what is that? Find out. Guhyatamam. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3].
Hari-sauri: Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto?
Prabhupada: No, guhyad guhyataram. Before saying sarva dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66], that "My dear Arjuna, you are My very confidential friend. I have spoken to you so many things." What is that?
Hari-sauri: Sarva-guhyatamam bhuyah.
Prabhupada: Sarva-guhyatamam.
Hari-sauri: Srnu me paramam vacah.
Prabhupada: Paramam vacah.
Hari-sauri: Isto 'si me drdham iti tato vaksyami te hitam.
Prabhupada: "Now I am speaking to you. Hear Me now." Then He says sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. Sarva-guhyatamam. "This is the confidential knowledge. And this is open to you because you are My very intimate friend. It is not to be disclosed." Others will not understand. Others will not understand. Sarva-guhyatamam.
Hari-sauri: Sarva-guhyatamam bhuyah srnu me...
Prabhupada: Paramam vacah. Paramam means supreme instruction. Why? Now...?
Hari-sauri: Isto 'si me drdham iti.
Prabhupada: Isto 'si: "I know you are My very sincere devotee and friend." Then?
Hari-sauri: Tato vaksyami te hitam.
Prabhupada: Tato vaksyami te hitam. This is the confidential knowledge. Anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam, anukulyena krsnanu-silanam [Brs. 1.1.11]. You simply act favorably to Krsna. Then agreed: "Yes, I shall fight." Because he understood that "I have to satisfy Krsna, not my whims. I was thinking of my whims, that 'They are my family members. Why shall I fight? Why you are putting me this proposal? So on, so on, so on...' " That... What is that verse? Find out that karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73]. There. There you'll find. Agreed. "Yes." In the beginning he disagreed. Nasto mohah smrtir labdha tvat prasadan madhusudana, karisye vacanam. Nasto mohah. After so much instruction, if his moha is not dissipated, then what is the use? So he said nasto mohah. You could not find?
Hari-sauri: What's the first line?
Prabhupada: Nasto! Why don't you find? You. Give him. He'll find. Why don't you give to Pradyumna?
Hari-sauri: Nasto mohah smrtir labdha?
Prabhupada: Ha!
Hari-sauri:
nasto mohah smrtir labdha
tvat-prasadan mayacyuta
sthito 'smi gata-sandehah
karisye vacanam tava
[Bg. 18.73]
Prabhupada: That's it. Sthito 'smi gata-sandehah. Karisye vacanam. This is liberation: "Now I am fixed up," sthito 'smi, "All doubts gone." This is real study of Bhagavad-gita. And promises, karisye vacanam: "All right, I shall fight. I shall kill Bhismadeva. Never mind he's my grandfather. No question of nonviolence. I shall commit violence." This is Krsna consciousness. Because nasto mohah... "It was my mohah. I was thinking in that way, that 'He's my grandfather. He's my brother. He's my nephew.' These are all nonsense. I have to satisfy You." Karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73]. That is anukulyena krsnanu-silanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Bhakti means to act to satisfy to Krsna. That is bhakti. Without any argument, what Krsna says, that's all right.
Guest (10): Unconditional.
Prabhupada: Unconditional. That is surrender. If we read Bhagavad-gita in that way, then sthito 'smi, then sthita prajna. And if you make cut short... Arjuna said, sarvam etad rtam manye yan mam vadasi kesava [Bg. 10.14]. "Kesava, whatever You have said, I accept it in total." That is surrender. No cut short.
Guest (12) (Indian man): Fulfills all requirements, mental requirements.
Prabhupada: I'll request Bajaji. You are, yourself, your wife and your sister, and our Sriman Narayanaji, all, you are all very intelligent. You take this Bhagavad-gita preaching seriously. That is my request. Not cut short (Hindi). No cut short. Sarvam etad rtam manye [Bg. 10.14]. What is that verse?
Hari-sauri: Sarvam etad rtam manye yan mam vadasi kesava [Bg. 10.14].
Prabhupada: Ah. "Whatever you are saying," yan mam vadasi kesava, "I accept them." No cut short. No mutilation. Then?
Hari-sauri: Na hi te bhagavan vyaktim vidur deva na danavah.
Prabhupada: "Your personality is not understood even by the demigods, what to speak of ordinary men." Then?
Hari-sauri: Vidur deva na danavah.
Prabhupada: What the deva? The demigods do not, what to speak of the demons, danavah. Then? Next verse?
Hari-sauri:
svayam evatmanatmanam
vettha tvam purusottama
bhuta-bhavana bhutesa
deva-deva jagat-pate
Prabhupada: So, param brahma param dhama pavitram [Bg. 10.12]. So sarvam etad rtam manye [Bg. 10.14]. If we accept sarvam etad rtam, as it is, then we benefited, and if we do not accept in that way, then it is nastah. Sa kaleneha mahata yogo nastah parantapa. Then it is being spoiled. And what benefit you will get with spoiled thing? As soon as you interpret it is spoiled, immediately spoiled. So what benefit will be derived from the spoiled things? And that is being done. Don't believe in Krsna, don't believe in the words of Krsna, and if I am preaching Bhagavad-gita, what is the benefit? It is spoiled? So if you distribute some spoiled food, it will increase food poison. That is going on. Instead of taking benefit from a first-class food, if you distribute a spoiled, then there will be food poisoning. That is being done. In India every home knows Bhagavad-gita. And because it is spoiled now there will be food poisoning. They are denying the existence of God. God is speaking -- Bhagavan uvaca -- and they are now..., don't.... They are not believing in the existence of God. "God? Where is God?" Science. This is going on. If we speak of God, then we are "primitive." And up-to-date? "I am God; you are God." This is up to date. And if we say, "Now, God is Krsna. You worship Him. You become devotee," this is primitive. And these Americans, although they are up to date, they have accepted it, my word. I presented them that Krsna is God. They have accepted. This is their qualification.
Guest (10): Supreme Lord.
Prabhupada: Yes. I have told them that Krsna is the Supreme Lord, and they have accepted. This is my magic, and this is their magic. That's all. You ask them if I did any magic with them.
Guest (10): This is magic itself.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes, it is magic. It is magic undoubtedly. But I never created any gold or some other... And neither I do know it, how to do it, although there is no scarcity of gold in my pocket. I started this business with forty rupees. So I'll go to take massage. Thank you very much. (Hindi) ...prasada. Show. Show the film. You are going to show?
Giriraja: Haridasa took the projector, so I don't know when it's coming.
Prabhupada: Why he has? (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9,
1977, Bombay
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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