"You Can Chant Even In Moscow"

Hyderabad, April 7, 1975



Prabhupada: Any culture, actually if it is culture, it is meant for the whole human society. Why do you say, "our," "your." We never say, "The Krsna consciousness is meant for Indians," or "for the Europeans." It is meant for everyone. That is our proposition. You have made this "our," "your," and bring another controversy. That is not the fact. Krsna consciousness is meant both for the Indians and the Westerners. That is the fact. When Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13], "You have to change your body," Krsna never meant that it is meant for the Indians. It is meant for everyone. Tatha dehantara-praptih. Dehantara-praptih is not meant that Indians only change and they become vanished, European. Dehantara-praptih is everyone. So try to understand this philosophy.

Jayadvaita: The karmis will say that materialistic culture is also meant for the whole world.

Prabhupada: Yes. That we admit. The materialistic culture, how to eat nicely, that is meant for everyone. Everyone wants to eat nicely, not that only Europeans want, not the Indians. That is material. To sleep nicely in a good apartment, that is wanted by both the Easterners and Westerners. So there is no discrimination. Sex life, that is meant for everyone. So as material life is also meant for everyone, similarly, spiritual life is also meant for everyone.

Jayadvaita: So there are only two cultures.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Jayadvaita: The deva culture and asura culture.

Prabhupada: Yes. So the human form of life, one should take advantage of the spiritual culture because in other forms of life it is not possible. This is the main thing. You become Indian or American, it doesn't matter. You are human being. Take to this culture and you will be happy. This is our mission. We want to make everyone happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu: "Everyone be happy" -- with Krsna. That is our mission.

Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, you said that the children in the West, in the materialistic culture, they become hippies. They'll say that at least they've had the choice, at least they were given...

Prabhupada: Again, again you are bringing the same question, Eastern-Western.

Ramesvara: Materialistic.

Prabhupada: Materialistic means that is the ultimate end of materialistic life. Because they want new pleasure, new pleasure, new pleasure, so sometimes this, sometimes that... Sometimes they think the civilized way is better; sometimes the uncivilized way is better. That's all, this way and that way. That is called punah punas ca... And then you'll take again to civilized way of... I think some of the hippies are taking now. Yes. Because the same example, stool, this side or that side, it is stool. So these materialistic persons, they are trying to change from this side to that side, but it is stool. That is the... That they do not know. They are accepting stool as something very sublime, and therefore they are trying to change the position, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Hitva anyatha rupam. This is anyatha rupam, means a living being. Being spiritual, his business is spiritual, but he has accepted material as the platform of his happiness. That is his fault. So material thing, either this side or that side, it is material. Bhoga-tyaga. So therefore he is not happy. And we are trying to give him spiritual platform for happiness. That is real happiness. But he is so much attached to the material happiness that he cannot believe that there can be any happiness beyond this range. That is his ignorance, mudha. Therefore we call them mudha, rascals. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, "When you become spiritually realized, then prasannatma, happiness." Otherwise it is not possible. Material thing, you take this side or that side -- there is no question of happiness. When you become brahma-bhutah, spiritually realized, then there is happiness, prasannatma, immediately. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu [Bg. 18.54]. That is the...

Satsvarupa: But should this be forced on people if they don't want it?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Satsvarupa: If a large section of the people don't want spiritual life, that's their...

Prabhupada: No, you cannot force. That is not possible, because he has got independence. You cannot force. You can simply give him knowledge. Therefore to distribute knowledge is the best welfare activities, not this material so-called happiness, daridra-narayana-seva and this... They have got that. That will not make them happy. If you give them knowledge, then they will be really benefited. Otherwise not.

Brahmananda: How do we give knowledge to the common masses of people?

Prabhupada: Yes, by sankirtana. By hearing, hearing, hearing -- this is a medicinal process -- the heart will be cleansed and they will take up the knowledge. Now the heart is unclean, so he cannot take up. So this is the medicine. Kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha. Harer nama harer... [Cc. Adi 17.21]. Chant Hare Krsna mantra wherever possible, and whoever will hear, he will gradually become cleansed. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And then bhava-maha-davagni... Then his material pangs will be over. This is the only medicine. Therefore chant Hare Krsna. Some way or other, let them have the chance of hearing, and then it will act as medicine. Even he does not will, you chant, you let him hear by force, and he will be cured.

Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, sometimes you say only a very small percentage can take to Krsna consciousness.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Satsvarupa: But yesterday morning in your lecture you were saying it can expand to ten thousand, million, or ten million.

Prabhupada: Yes, if you take the proper way it can be increased.

Satsvarupa: Is that just up to our preaching?

Prabhupada: Yes. That will depend on your purified preaching activities. If you again become materially victimized, then you cannot do it. If you remain on the spiritual platform, if you try, then it will increase. Anandambudhi-vardhanam. It will increase. As soon as there is any contemplation of sense gratification, then the spirit will be lost. Then instead of Christianity, it will be "Churchianity," officially going to the church, doing nothing, and gradually nobody will go.

Rupanuga: Like the Christians.

Prabhupada: Yes. Everywhere. Christians... Now who are coming here, in so many temples? Nobody is coming. They have made it a business, "Oh, the Caitanya Mahaprabhu's birthday, you come here." And somebody will come, collect some money, and then there is no business -- go away.

Jayadvaita: That requires our personal austerity.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Jayadvaita: That requires our personally being austere.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. And what is austerity? It is very simple thing. Vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitah, janayaty asu. If you continue devotional service to Lord Vasudeva, Krsna, then automatically the effect of these austerities will become, janayaty asu, very soon. Vairagyam. Austerities means detachment to the material world. That is the result of austerity. So sastra says janayaty asu vairagyam. Simply by executing devotional service to Vasudeva, that vairagya, detachment, very soon arises. Come. Chant Hare Krsna. That is very good engagement.

Pusta-krsna: It says in the Bhagavad-gita that persons who at least attempt to become Krsna conscious, they again, at least they get human form of life.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta-krsna: So what is the position of tyagis, persons who are simply trying to renounce material life? Do they... Are they considered on the devotional path, or do they have to fall down into lower species of life?

Prabhupada: No.

Pusta-krsna: Is that considered attempting to become Krsna conscious, simply to give up, say, material sense enjoyment?

Prabhupada: No, these tyagis, Mayavadis, by their process they may attempt param padam, means Brahman effulgence. But Brahman effulgence being simply, what is called, eternity. But a living entity does not want simply eternal life, but he wants ananda. Now, suppose if you are given, if God says that "You live here in this field eternally," would you like that?

Pusta-krsna: No.

Prabhupada: Why?

Jayadvaita: It's boring.

Prabhupada: If you alone live in this field eternally, that is not bliss. That is punishment. You see? So that is nature. We want ananda, blissfulness. Therefore those who are... Aruhya krcchrena param padam [SB 10.2.32]. After severe austerities they rise up to the Brahman effulgence, but on account of his original nature of ananda, he cannot remain there. He again falls down. "Oh, it was better, family life. What is this nonsense? Eternally sit up in this field? What is this? Let me go to the town and work there." You see? That is your nature. Therefore these impersonalists who want to merge, they can merge, but there they cannot remain. They will again come. These so-called sannyasis, they give up everything -- brahma satyam jagan mithya -- Vivekananda or this Karpatri. Again they come to these material activities. Somebody takes social work, somebody takes political work. But if it is mithya, if it is false, why...? [break] But they have... [break] Again come, open hospital, do political work. They cannot stick up. That is not possible.

Pusta-krsna: So they are not saved from the greatest danger of falling down...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta-krsna: ...into the lower species of life.

Prabhupada: Yes. They will fall down. Sastra says. They will fall down. The same example: if I ask you that "You sit down in this vacant land and you live eternally," you will leave this place: "No, no, I don't want this eternity. Let me go to Calcutta." (laughter) [break] ...perpetually. So that is wanted. The spiritual kingdom is Brahman effulgence, and there are Vaikuntha planets. So if you take shelter of the Vaikuntha planet, then you can stay. And if you take simply the impersonal Brahman, sky, you cannot stay there. Aruhya krcchrena patanty adhah. So without varieties, simply impersonal conception of Brahman will not make you happy.

Pusta-krsna: The descriptions of Goloka Vrndavana, that even the dust is personal... So we have experience of personal form. Even Krsna's form is personal. How is the dust of Vrndavana personal? How is it individual living entity?

Prabhupada: If you want something from this dust, you cannot get it. That is material. But in Vrndavana, even from the dust if you want any, he will deliver immediately.

Jayapataka: Would you like to see the land that we have got here, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Jayapataka: Just take one moment. [break]

Ramesvara: ...for enjoying, but if He's our friend...

Prabhupada: For enjoying and getting slaps also, both thing. You see? When the children enjoys, sometimes the father slaps also. Why?

Pusta-krsna: Disobedience. They do something that is harmful to themselves or to others.

Prabhupada: So you can enjoy life, material life, as the father directs. So that is devotional service. Then you will enjoy. Otherwise you will get slapped.

Trivikrama: So-called enjoyment.

Prabhupada: Yes. If you manufacture your program of enjoyment, then you will be slapped. And if you enjoy according to the direction of the father, then you'll enjoy. This is the... Krsna says, "Enjoy life. All right. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji. Live peacefully. Always think of Me. Worship Me." That we have prescribed. Come here and think of Krsna. And so that is enjoyment. So they don't want. They want liquor. They want illicit sex. They want meat. So therefore they must be slapped. Actually all this whole universe is made for your enjoyment, but enjoy it according to His direction. Then you will enjoy. That is the difference between demigod and demon. The demon wants to enjoy, manufacturing his own way of life. And the demigod, they enjoy better than the demons because under the direction of God.

Jagadisa: Why does Krsna provide the living entities with these sinful pleasures?

Prabhupada: Simple pleasures?

Jagadisa: Sinful pleasures, such as becoming intoxicated...

Prabhupada: Krsna does not provide. You create your sinful. Krsna never says that "You eat meat," but you open slaughterhouse, so you suffer.

Brahmananda: But there is a pleasure, a certain pleasure derived from these sinful activities.

Prabhupada: What is that pleasure? (laughter)

Brahmananda: Well, some people like to... They get pleasure from intoxication, they get pleasure from...

Prabhupada: Yes. And therefore they suffer aftereffect. That is ignorance, that immediately you get some sense pleasure, but the result is very bad. And that is sinful.

Ramesvara: You wrote in the Fourth Canto that if we have too much sense pleasure when we are young, then we have corresponding disease when we are older.

Prabhupada: Yes. Here material life means as soon as you violate the rules and regulation, you suffer. Therefore varnasrama-dharma is the beginning of perfection in material life. It is the beginning. Catur-varnyam maya srstam [Bg. 4.13]. God has created this. If you adopt this institution of varnasrama-dharma, then your perfection of life begins. [break]

Jayapataka: Everyone is sending their sons and daughters to the university and colleges, and they are getting degree, but they are not getting any jobs.

Prabhupada: Krsna never says that, that "You send your children to the universities and make them fools and rascals." So one who is depending on job, he's a sudra. That is not education. Education is not meant for the sudra but for the dvijas, twice-born, the brahmana, ksatriya, and vaisya. Sudras are never for education. So their education, so-called education, means creating so many sudras. Unless he gets a job his education is useless. Therefore he's a sudra. And brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya -- they will create their own means of livelihood. That is brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya. Therefore they are unhappy. They don't get job, neither they are able to work independently.

Nalini-kanta: Punishment is not the best means of reformation. Sometimes if someone is sent to jail by the government, he'll simply be thinking, "Oh, when I can get out and depose these rascals?" So if someone is punished by God, he might become more angry towards God.

Prabhupada: But that does not mean God will stop punishing. Just like these animals. The stick is there. He may be angry, but stick is required. Otherwise you cannot work with him. "Hut!" You see? The stick is there in his hand. Otherwise he cannot get work. Hare Krsna. Jaya.

Nalini-kanta: So eventually they will have to surrender.

Prabhupada: Without surrendering there is no other alternative, willingly or unwillingly. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur