"Become Brahmana -- Twice-Born"

66/07/29 New York, Bhagavad-gita 4.12-13


Prabhupada:

kanksantah karmanam siddhim
yajanta iha devatah
ksipram hi manuse loke
siddhir bhavati karma-ja

People, they are naturally following leadership, but they do not want to follow the leadership of Sri Krsna. Because they want immediate relief from the miseries of this world. They do not want a permanent solution of all miseries. Krsna, if we accept the leadership of Krsna, then in this very life we can make a solution of all the miseries of material existence.

But instead of following the leadership of Krsna, we accept leadership which is also indirectly the leadership of Krsna, but it is misrepresented because on account of contamination of this material nature. Material nature is inferior or lower nature. Constitutionally, we are following the leadership, but we want immediate, temporary relief for our miseries. We do not want permanent solution of all miseries. That is the defect of our life. But here is a chance. If we follow the leadership of Krsna, then we make a solution of the whole miseries. Kanksantah,

kanksantah karmanam siddhim
yajanta iha devatah
ksipram hi manuse loke
siddhir bhavati karma-ja

Karma-ja means those who are acting here on the line of fruitive activities. Suppose... You have experienced that there are so many political leaders. They follow some particular leader, and they capture the governmental machinery, but after some time they are taken away from the scene. Just like in our country, recently, within one year, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, he's also shifted away, Shastri is also shifted away. In your country, the President Kennedy is also shifted away. We do not take into account that after shifting this position, again we are going to enter into the miserable life of material existence. If we do not make a solution in present life, then we are again going to enter.

Suppose in this life I am elected to be the president of this great state, United States of America, and if my next life I become an ordinary citizen or even an animal... There is no guarantee what I shall become in my next life. That depends on my work because the whole body is given by the material nature. It is not made according to my order supply. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. You are given a chance to act here, but according to your act, it will be judged, what you are going to have in your next life. That is your problem. No, don't make this life of fifty years, sixty years, or seventy years, or hundred years, as all in all. You have got a continuous life of transmigration from one body to another. It is going on. You must know that.

Now here is a chance to stop this nonsense of transmigrating from one body to another and suffer the material miseries. Here is a chance. And how that chance you are going to utilize? That we have already discussed. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. If somebody simply studies critically the transcendental nature of Krsna, the transcendental nature of His activities, simply by knowing this, the benefit will be that tyaktva deham, after quitting this body, you are not again going to have such a material body, but tyaktva deham punar janma... [Bg. 4.9]. Punar janma means you are not going to take your birth again in the womb of a mother of this material nature.

So just believe it. It is standard. It is accepted by all the great stalwart scholars and acaryas of repute. Just like Sankaracarya, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, great scholars and acaryas. They have accepted it. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the footprints of great saints and sages, those who have achieved success by this indication of Bhagavad-gita. Don't follow your whims. Take the standard advice. Just try to become Krsna conscious. Just try to understand Krsna, what is Krsna. And the result is that after leaving this body, you are no more going to accept any material body, but you enter into the spiritual kingdom and you have your spiritual body which is eternal, full of knowledge and blissful. This is the chance.

So Krsna says... Although the chance is there, people, out of foolishness... Exactly this very word has been used in the Seventh Chapter.

na mam duskrtino mudhah
prapadyante naradhamah
mayayapahrta-jnana
asuram bhavam asritah
[Bg. 7.15]

He has used very strong words, that persons who are miscreants, do not care for vice or virtue, never mind -- they don't care which is vice and which is virtue -- such persons, duskrtina, those who are always engaged in vicious work, and those who are foolish... Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah. Naradhama means lowest of the mankind. And mayayapahrta-jnanah, and one whose knowledge is deluded by the external energy. These people, they do not take the shelter of Krsna. They do not like, although the opportunity is open for everyone. But we may not be like the miscreants, foolish, and lowest of the mankind. Let us become intelligent.

Krsna consciousness is not very difficult job. It is the easiest and the highest, topmost type of yoga system. In the Twelfth Chapter, you'll find it explicitly stated that one who [is] always in devotional service of Krsna, he is the first-class yogi. One who is always constantly in Krsna consciousness, he is the first-class yogi. And that is also stated in the last verse of the Sixth Chapter also, and it is accepted by great scholars and acaryas. So here is an opportunity. It is very simple, very simple -- simply thinking of Krsna. Satatam cintayantam visnum. Smartavyah satatam visnur vismartavyo na jatucit. Always, simply if you think that Hare Krsna, if you think simply Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, that is sufficient, even if you do not go into the Bhagavad-gita, if you do not go in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, simply as you are chanting. Krsna has given us the ear, and Krsna has given us the tongue. No expense, no difficulty. You haven't got to go to college and take degrees to become Krsna conscious. It is easy for the rich, for the poor, for the learned, for the fool, for the black, for the white, for the rich, for the poor, everyone. There is no distinction because[?] Krsna is for everyone.

Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg. 9.32]. In the lower nature, everyone thinks, "Oh, I am greater than you." The Hindus think, "Oh, we are greater than Muslim." The Muslim thinks, "We are greater than the Hindus." The Christian thinks that "We are greater than the Jews." The Jews thinks, "We are greater than..." This is material conception. But for Krsna there is no lower or higher. Every living being -- His part and parcel. He comes here to claim every one of you, "Come on. Come on, My dear sir. Why you are suffering here? It is not for you. Take this chance." Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg. 4.7].

So Krsna consciousness is so nice, but one who does not care for it, they are satisfied by some temporary relief, and they take to other courses. They do not take the leadership of Krsna. Kanksantah karmanam siddhim yajanta iha devatah. Iha devatah means these material gods. Material gods means their existence is so long this material world.

Just like here we have got the president, the governor and so many big, big officers. But suppose, somehow or other this whole planet or the whole thing is gone, destroyed -- because we can expect destruction every moment, bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19] -- then the whole thing, I mean to say, the president and the governor, everything is gone. Iha devatah. So we are taking shelter of this material world, something big, but that will not exist with the annihilation, with the dissolution of this material world. Everything will be dissolved. Everything will be... So we have to take the leadership of the Supreme. Then it will be the largest perfection, the greatest perfection of life.

Now, Lord Krsna says, karmanam, karmanam siddhim. How in the material world people are working? He is analyzing the process of different occupation. What is that?

catur-varnyam maya srstam
guna-karma-vibhagasah
tasya kartaram api mam
viddhy akartaram avyayam
[Bg. 4.13]

The Lord says that catur-varnyam, four castes or four divisions of human society. You have heard that there is caste system in India. There is caste system in India. There is caste system in India. Sometimes Indians are criticized by the outsiders that they have caste system. But here the Lord says the catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah: "This caste system is created by Me. This caste system is created by Me, how?" Guna-karma-vibhagasah: "According to quality and according to work." That division in the human society, according to quality and according to work, is there in everywhere, everywhere in the world, not only everywhere in the world, but everywhere in the universe. God's creation cannot be stopped.

God's creation cannot be stopped. Just like in God's creation there is sun, there is moon, there is seasonal changes, nobody can stop this, similarly the catur-varnyam, according to quality and karma, that division prevails all over the universe, not only in India but also in your country also. In your country also.

And what are the divisions? Now, what are the guna and karma? The guna, the quality. There are three qualities. In the material world, there are three qualities: the quality of goodness, the quality of passion, and the quality of ignorance. And either human being or animal or demigods or American or Indian, everywhere these qualities are working. So some of them are in the modes or quality of goodness, and some of them are in the quality of passion, and some of them are in the quality of ignorance. Those who are in the quality of goodness, they are called brahmanas, or the intelligent class of men. In Sanskrit language, because intelligence, intelligence does not mean to know, to have some knowledge of the material things. Intelligence means to know about the spiritual world also. That is intelligence.

Because as you know that I am combination of matter and spirit... I am spirit, and I am now entangled in this material body. I am spirit, consciousness. As soon as I am out of this body, I can distinguish or... I cannot distinguish because I will go away. You can distinguish that "Now this real Swamiji's spirit is gone; the Swamiji's material body is here." So it is very plain thing. Therefore we should not only have perfect knowledge of this matter, but we should have perfect knowledge of the spirit also, if we are actually intelligent. Therefore the brahmanas... Why they are called brahmanas? Brahma janati iti brahmanah. Brahmin, it is English transcription. But real word is brahmana, brahmana. And wherefrom this brahmana word comes? Brahma janati iti brahmanah. That means one who knows the spirit, the spiritual. One who has got complete knowledge of the spiritual world, he is called brahmana.

How one becomes brahmana? Now you will find distinctly that catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah: [Bg. 4.13] "The four divisions of qualitative divisions is set by Me according to quality and karma." Never says, "according to birth," you will find. "According to birth," it is not said here. Although in India it is now misrepresentated that a brahmana's son is trying to designate himself as brahmana, but according to Bhagavad-gita, that is not sanctioned. Bhagavad-gita says, "according to quality."

Now, just like here is a qualified lawyer, Mr. Goldsmith. He is lawyer. Now, because he is lawyer, his son cannot claim that "Because my father is lawyer, then I am also lawyer." How he can become? The son also must be qualified lawyer. He must pass the bachelor of law degree, examination. Then he can be lawyer. So similarly, here Krsna says... Don't misunderstand the Indian caste system as hereditary. No. It is, according to Vedic literature, it is according to the quality.

And what is that quality? Janmana jayate sudrah. Janmana jayate sudrah: "Anyone who takes his birth, by his birth he's a sudra." Sudra means the lowest, in the lowest order. Everyone. Even if he is born in the family of a brahmana, he is to be considered as a sudra, janmana, by birth. And perhaps some of you know that the brahmanas, the ksatriyas and the vaisyas, they are called dvija. Dvi means twice, and ja means birth. Twice-born. Twice-born.

The bird is also called twice-born. Why? The bird birth is first of all in the egg. The egg is fermented. Then the real bird comes out. Therefore bird is called in Sanskrit language also dvija, twice-born. Similarly, a man, unless he is twice-born, he is a sudra. Twice-born. How is that twice-born? Because by birth anyone, everyone has got some father and mother because without father and mother, there is no question of birth. So the beast has also got father and mother, and the bird has also father and mother. Similarly, a human being has also got father and mother. So this birth, by father and mother, is not sufficient for becoming a dvija. He has to take his birth again.

So janmana jayate sudrah samskarad bhaved dvijah. Birth. Birth is not all, everything. The culture, samskara. Samskara means culture. One has to take his birth, rebirth, by culture, by education, by knowledge. That is called cultural birth. So unless one is in the cultural birth, he is to be considered the lower grade person, or the sudra.

So therefore the system in the, according to varnasrama-dharma, that not only by birth, before birth, when the father and mother is going to be combined to beget a child, there are cultural samskaras or reformatory measures. How much carefully these things are. They wanted first-class son, not sons like cats and dogs, first-class son. So there is some samskara. There is some purificatory measures, which is called garbhadhana-samskara. Garbhadhana means pregnancy, the cultural ceremony before making the mother pregnant. And it is enjoined, you will find in the Bhagavata, that any family, the brahmanas, the ksatriyas and vaisyas, if they give up this garbhadhana-samskara, birth-giving ceremony, then that family turns immediately to the classification of the sudras.

So nowadays, at the present moment, this cultural program... I am speaking of India and everywhere. There is no such cultural program. That cultural program, that program to beget nice children, the whole program is, we must know, the whole Vedic system is to give the human life the greatest chance of self-realization and get free from these material miseries. That is the whole program. It is not... The Vedic culture does not mean that we shall be like cats and dogs, simply eating, sleeping, mating and defending. No. The human society is a systematic program to give everyone the chance of getting free from this material miseries.

Just like every state is supposed to be welfare state. Every citizen of that state should be happy, should be prosperous. There should be no anxiety. I do not know if every state is taking care of the citizens in that way. People are always full of anxieties. They are creating situation that everyone is full of anxiety. This material world is made so that it is full of anxiety. Whoever is in the material world... Even the bird, you will see, when it is taking some grains, he is also full of anxiety. He is looking like this and that, "Oh, somebody is coming or killing me." So this is the nature.

So human society, human society is so arranged that the people, the members of the human society, should be free from all anxiety. Therefore we require good citizens, good father and mother, good system of government, and pious, virtuous, cooperation between God and nature. Everything will be helpful for my spiritual realization, for my self-realization. If I am full of anxiety, how can I make progress in spiritual realization? It is not possible. Therefore it is the duty of the state, duty of the father, duty of the teacher, duty of the spiritual master to give chance to the small children to develop in such a way that he becomes fully realized spiritual soul at the end and so that his miserable life in the material existence is over. That is the responsibility.

In Bhagavata you will see that Rsabhadeva says that "One should not become the spiritual master, one should not become the father, one should not become the mother, one should not become the husband, who cannot give relief from these miseries of material existence. It is the husband's duty also. Because the wife is under the protection of the husband, he has got so much responsibility.

Woman class and children class, they are taken in the same category. They require protection. They require protection. That is the Manu-samhita. Na striyam svatantratam arhati. Women should be under the protection. They should be given all protection. So the system of taking... Just like the Hindu system is... Just like a girl. Before attaining the age of puberty, she is handed over to a suitable boy to take charge before she gets youthful energy.

So this is the system of varnasrama-dharma. This is the system. The whole idea is that everyone should be given the chance of being liberated in this very life. No more waiting for again for further, another life. Who knows that I am going to be human being again? It may be by freaks of nature I become a cat, a dog, a cow, an animal.

Now we are very much enthusiastic to become good nationals. Suppose I am American, a very good national. Now, after death, suppose that if I become a cow. Then even I am national of this country, oh, I am destined to be sent to the slaughterhouse. You see? So we should not take the risk of next birth. In this life, in this birth, we should make a permanent solution of all miseries. That is Krsna consciousness. Let us become Krsna conscious in this very life and make a solution.

Now, this catur-varnyam, this plan of catur-varnyam, Lord says... You should always remember that this material creation, whole material creation... There are unlimited number of universes and, I mean to say, planets in each universe. In the Brahma-samhita it is stated, yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti. Jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. Jagad-anda means this universe, and koti means hundred millions. Hundred millions. Not exactly one hundred millions, but numberless.

yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti-
kotisv asesa-vasudhadi-vibhuti-bhinnam
tad brahma niskalam anantam asesa-bhutam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.40]

So this material world is created. It is created for temporary existence. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19], you will find in the Bhagavad-gita, "This material manifestation is temporary." May be for millions of years, but it is temporary.

And why this temporary material world is created? Just to give the rebelled, I mean to say, living entities who are averse to God consciousness, Krsna consciousness, to give another chance for developing, for developing. So if we miss this chance, then again, when this material world will be dissolved, oh, we do not know how many millions of years we have to become unconscious. We shall remain in the unconscious, sleeping stage. Then again there will be creation. Then again our body will be created, and... So these are very subtle laws. We should not miss. We should be very much serious about this life.

So the whole program is made: catur-varnyam maya srstam [Bg. 4.13]. So by birth one is supposed to be the lowborn. Janmana jayate sudrah. Sudra means without any culture. The man who has no cultural life, he is called a sudra. And those who are cultured, they are called dvija. Dvija means twice-born. So one has to take his birth twice. He should not be satisfied simply by taking birth by the father and mother. One should be anxious to take his twice-born, to become twice-born, brahmana. But that chance is... Don't think that you cannot become a brahmana. You can become a qualified brahmana provided you abide by the qualification of a qualified brahmana. Just like to become a lawyer it is not, I mean to say, limited to a certain section or to a certain person. Anyone who takes the qualification of a lawyer, he becomes a lawyer.

Similarly, here Lord says, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah: [Bg. 4.13] "According to quality and karma, these catur-varnya, four classes or four castes or four classes of division of the human society, is created by Me." So brahma janati iti brahmanah. If you want to know Brahman... Because that is the prerogative of your life, human life. Vedanta-sutra says, athato brahma jijnasa. Athato brahma-jijnasa: "Oh, here is the chance for inquiring about Brahman." Athato brahma jijnasa. Now we should take the chance to become a brahmana. As soon as we begin to inquire about Brahman or the Supreme Brahman, Krsna, then my process of becoming the brahmana begins.

You know that the brahmanas, the ksatriyas, and the vaisyas, they have got the sacred thread. You have seen. I have got the sacred thread. This is, of course, not very valuable. It is... (chuckles) It is made of cotton. But this is a badge. This badge is given to a person who is twice-born, who is twice-born.

So anyone can become twice-born. There is no hindrance. You will find in the Bhagavad-gita,

mam hi partha vyapasritya
ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah
striyo vaisyas tatha sudras
te 'pi yanti param gatim
[Bg. 9.32]

kim punar brahmanah punya
bhakta rajarsayas tatha
[Bg. 9.33]

kaunteya pratijanihi
na me bhaktah pranasyati
[Bg. 9.31]

So it is a chance we should not miss. You can become brahmana. There is chance. We should not be satisfied that "I am born in America, so I am great. I am born of a great nation." That's all right. You are born of a great nation, that's all right. But next cultural birth, to become a dvija, twice-born, is awaiting. Lord Krsna says, "Yes. I give chance to everyone to become dvija." Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg. 9.32]. Never mind wherever he is born.

Now the human society, everyone thinks that "He is low; I am big." Everyone thinks. In his own consideration he thinks, "I am the biggest. I am the big; he is lower." That is everywhere. But Lord Krsna is not considering who is bigger. He says, "Even who is considering that ‘I am lowborn.' " Because if everyone says that I am lowborn, it is propaganda that "You are lowborn. You are lowborn," so I think, "Yes, I am lowborn." Dasa cakre bhagavan bhuta.(?)

Just like there was a clique. There was a brahmana. His name was Bhagavan. So he had some enemies. So the enemies, ten enemies, they sat down in ten places, and wherever he was passing, "Oh, you have become ghost! You have become ghost!" "Oh, how I have become? I am living. How I have become ghost?" Next post he goes, he also says, "Oh, you have become ghost! You have become ghost!" In this way, when he passes ten posts, he thinks, "I might be, I have become ghost. Otherwise everyone says I have become ghost." So dasa cakre bhagavan bhuta.

So if everyone says I am lowborn, I am lowborn, so I also think I am lowborn. But I am not lowborn. Aham brahmasmi. I am brahmasmi. I am spirit soul. I am born of Krsna. Krsna is my father. Take like that. Think like that. That is twice-born. That is twice-born. So Krsna says, mam hi partha vyapasritya: [Bg. 9.32] "Anyone who takes shelter of Me, never mind what he is... Never mind he is. He may be lowborn, he may be a sudra, he may be woman, he may be whatever he may be." Te 'pi yanti param gatim: "He can also go to My kingdom."

So our duty is to become twice-born. Just by culture, by Krsna consciousness, let us take another birth. Let us take another birth. Then you will be recognized brahmanas. Brahma janati. As soon as we know Krsna, you are brahmana. Never mind whether you are born in America or Czechoslovakia or any other place. Doesn't matter. So try to become a brahmana. Here is a chance.
But how to become a brahmana? Simply by purchasing two cent worth this thread and getting on the body? No. There are qualities, karma. You have to act like a brahmana, and you have to acquire the qualification of a brahmana. Then you can become a brahmana. There is no impediment. Never mind wherever you were born. That doesn't matter.

So here is... Bhagavad-gita is giving a chance to everyone to become brahmana or be qualified person who knows Brahman and who is preparing himself for the next birth in the spiritual kingdom. He is called brahmana. Catur-varnyam maya srstam [Bg. 4.13]. Now, the Lord says, tasya kartaram api mam viddhy akartaram avyayam: "Although I have created this system, still, I am not there. I am not there." Why? Because Krsna is neither brahmana nor sudra nor ksatriya or anything, anything of the material world. He is transcendental. When we go to Krsna with spiritual body, we also become like Krsna in transcendental body. That chance is given here. So just it is our duty, everyone.

Lord Caitanya, He is Krsna Himself. He appeared as a devotee of Krsna, but He never said that "I am Krsna." But from Vedic references we understand that He is Krsna. But the same mission. The Krsna's mission and Lord Caitanya's mission is the same. How it is same? Krsna, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He said that "You surrender unto Me," and Lord Caitanya said, "You surrender unto Krsna." The same thing. Lord Caitanya said...

What is the philosophy of Lord Caitanya? Lord Caitanya says, aradhyo bhagavan vrajesa-tanayas tad-dhama vrndavanam ramya kascid upasana vraja-vadhu-varga-virya kalpita, srimad-bhagavatam amalam puranam prema pum-artho mahan sri-caitanya mahaprabhor matam idam tatradarah na parah. The philosophy of Lord Caitanya is that Krsna is the only object of worship. And as Krsna is object of worship, similarly, His place, Vrndavana, Vrndavana-dhama. Those who have visited India. Vrndavana-dhama, still, if you go to Vrndavana without knowing about Krsna, you will at once feel Krsna consciousness. It is such a nice place. So that Vrndavana-dhama is also worshipable.

And ramya kascid upasana vraja-vadhu-varga-virya kalpita. Now, Krsna was worshiped by the damsels of Vrajadhama. Lord Caitanya recommends, "That is the highest, topmost grade of worship because that was pure love." The damsels of Vraja loved Krsna so much, without any return. That's a sublime thing. So He recommended, "That is the highest form of worship."

Ramya kascid upasana vraja-vadhu-varga-virya kalpita, srimad-bhagavatam amalam puranam: "And Srimad-Bhagavata is the spotless Vedic literature." Because Srimad-Bhagavatam is full of Krsna consciousness only. That's all. Just like this Bhagavad-gita is full of Krsna consciousness. It is the preliminary study of Srimad-Bhagavatam. The last word of the Srimad-Bhagavad-gita is that sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up everything. You just surrender unto Me," Krsna said. One who accepts this philosophy -- "I accept Krsna as vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah" [Bg. 7.19] -- then for him Srimad-Bhagavatam is the postgraduate study.

And srimad-bhagavatam amalam puranam prema pum-artho mahan. Now we are searching. We are searching our self-interest. Everyone is busy of his own interest, but they do not know what is real interest. They do not know what is real interest. The real interest is to invoke the dormant love of Krsna. That is my real interest. That dormant love for Krsna is there in every one of you.

Don't think that because I am born in India, therefore I have got love of Krsna within my heart dormant or manifested. No. That dormant love of Krsna is within you also. Krsna is neither foreign to you or foreign to me. He is for everyone. Therefore love of Krsna is there permanently, but it is covered. Simply it has to be invoked.

And what is this process of invoking? This is the process. Just like we are discussing, we are chanting, and we are reading Bhagavad-gita, we are reading Srimad-Bhagavatam. This association will help us. This association will help us to invoke that dormant Krsna consciousness. So if we at all want...

You will be interested in hearing a story. Not story. It is actual fact. One of my Godbrother who is no longer in this world... His name was Bhaktisaranga Goswami. He went to London. Just as I have come to your New York, he went to London and he formed a society also there in which Lord Rolandcey[?], the Marquis of Zetland... He was formerly governor of Bengal during British period, and in our childhood, when we were college student, in boyhood, I saw him. He is very interest in India philosophy. He's a Scotsman but very interested. Lord Rolandcey. So that Lord Rolandcey, he was very kind enough to become the president of that society my Godbrother organized in London. So Lord Rolandcey and that, my Godbrother, is talking. So Lord Rolandcey asked him, "Well, Swamiji, can you make me a brahmana?" "Yes, why not? Yes, why not? You can become a brahmana." "So what are the conditions?" My Godbrother said, "The preliminary four conditions." "What are these conditions?" "Now, striya-suna-pana-dyuta yatra papas catur-vidhah: You cannot have any illicit connection with woman, you cannot have any intoxication habit, you cannot indulge in gambling or unnecessary sporting, and you cannot live on animal food." Lord Rolandcey replied, "It is impossible. It is impossible." (laughs)

So these things, these four principles, preliminary, if we actually want to be a brahmana, then we have to take care of these four principles of life just to become a brahmana. Yes. Then everyone can become a brahmana. There is no bar. And whoever becomes a brahmana, he knows what is Brahman. And Krsna is Parambrahman. Parambrahman. You'll find in the Tenth Chapter. He is addressed by Arjuna, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan: [Bg. 10.12] "By studying Bhagavad-gita I now understand that Krsna, You are Parambrahman." Param dhama: "You are the shelter of everyone." So He is Parambrahman. So anyone who becomes a brahmana, he first of all knows what is Brahman -- brahma-jijnasa -- the Supreme, the Absolute Truth. And the Absolute... One who knows Absolute Truth and enters into further, postgraduate study, he understands Krsna. And as soon as he understands Krsna, then his next life in the spiritual world is guaranteed.

So this is the process of Krsna consciousness. This is the simple process introduced by Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya also supported this philosophy of Krsna, that anyone is eligible for going back to the kingdom of Krsna. This simple process. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita. We have discussed that simply by knowing the transcendental nature of Krsna, we become eligible for entering into His kingdom, simply by knowing. So try to know. Try to study what is Krsna.

And do you know what is the recommendation of Caitanya Mahaprabhu? Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He said that

kiba sudra kiba vipra nyasi kene naya
yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya
[Cc. Madhya 8.128]

That means "It doesn't matter whether he is a householder or a swami, renounced order, or a brahmana or a sudra or a lowborn, whatever he is. That doesn't matter. If he knows the science of Krsna, he is a bona fide spiritual master, if he simply knows the science of Krsna." This is catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma [Bg. 4.13]. It is the quality.

Just like if I go to a medical man or a lawyer, we go there for his qualification. We don't ask him, "Well, sir, are you Christian? Are you Jew or Indian or American or a brahmana?" No. We are concerned with the qualification. It doesn't matter what he is. He may be an American, he may be an Indian, he may be Christian, he may be Jew, he may be Hindu or Mohammedan. Doesn't matter. He's a practiced medical practitioner, so he's a qualified man. I have gone there for my treatment.

Similarly, Lord Caitanya also says the same thing, and Krsna also says the same thing. Never it is, He is stressing on birth. Birth is no consideration. Nobody is responsible for his birth. He may be lowborn but what is that? Or he may be highborn. That doesn't matter. But when he comes out from the womb of the mother, he has got his own responsibility. He has to advance his cultural life in Krsna consciousness. That is his responsibility. That is his responsibility. Of course, father, mother, state, teacher, friend, they can help us, but ultimately, the responsibility lies with me.

If I want to enter into the kingdom of God, or Krsna, if we want to be Krsna consciousness, there is no impediment. There is no impediment. Ahaituky apratihata. In the Bhagavata says that if one wants to cultivate the Krsna consciousness, it is without any cause and without any impediment. Because it is transcendental subject matter, it does not depend on any material condition, on any material condition. There is no consideration of material impediment. So it is open for everyone. Catur-varnyam maya srstam [Bg. 4.13]. That is a chance given, that you can become a brahmana, you can become a great devotee of Lord Krsna, and you can become the spiritual master of the world. That is the... And I think you should take seriously.

I am old man. If you, some of you at least understand this science and take up this science, you become future hope of the, this country or the world. That is my request to you, that you should take this chance and become a spiritual master for all the people.

Thank you very much. Now let us have some questions if you want. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.12-13 -- New York, July 29, 1966

"Hear, Talk, Chant, Eat, Work, Sleep, Walk About Krsna"

74/04/01 Bombay, Bhagavad-gita 4.12



Prabhupada:

kanksantah karmanam siddhim
yajanta iha devatah
ksipram hi manuse loke
siddhir bhavati karma-ja

So last night we were discussing,

ye yatha mam prapadyante
tams tathaiva bhajamy aham
mama vartmanuvartante
manusyah partha sarvasah
[Bg. 4.11]

Everyone is seeking the Absolute Truth in different way. So the worship of the demigods, that is also, in one way, searching after the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore in the Vedas, the demigod worship is also recommended. Upasana-kanda.

The Vedas are divided into three kandas, or division: karma-kanda, jnana-kanda, upasana-kanda. Therefore the other name of Veda is trayi. Trayi na sruti-gocara. Stri-sudra-dvijabandhunam trayi na sruti-gocara [SB 1.4.25]. That is stated in the Vedic literature. Stri, sudra and dvija-bandhu.... Dvija-bandhu means born in brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya family, especially brahmana family, but he is not possessing the qualities of brahmana or ksatriya, as now it is going on. Everyone is presenting himself as a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, but he hasn't got the necessary qualification. A brahmana's qualification is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, satyam saucam samo damas titiksa arjavam jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Similarly, ksatriya. Sauryam viryam tejo yuddhe capy apalayanam, isvara-bhavas ca. In this way there are ksatriya's qualification.

Similarly, krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam vaisya-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.44]. The vaisyas are described to be engaged in agricultural work, giving protection to the cows, and excess grains to trade, where there is necessity to carry there and take something in exchange.

Similarly, sudra: paricaryatmakam karma sudra-karma svabhava-jam. Sudra means he is satisfied by serving somebody. Just like a dog. He is satisfied having a nice master, that's all. Sometimes it is compared, the sudras, like the dogs. So kanksantah karmanam siddhim. This guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13] -- brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya that will be explained in the next verse.

So karma, to get success in one's particular type of occupational duties sometimes they worship the demigods. That is described here. Demigods, they are also living entities, and all living entities are part and parcel of Krsna. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah jiva-loke sanatanah [Bg. 15.7]. So demigods, they are also part and parcel. We are also part and parcel. There is no difference. But they are more fortunate to get the post of Candra, Surya, Indra, Brahma. Brahma is also a living entity. Therefore, to get success in our material welfare activities, sometimes, not sometimes, always, we worship demigods.

So that is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, that demigod worship is also My worship, but that is avidhi-purvakam. That is not the vidhi. Vidhi is to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But sometimes, just like we give some reward to the doorman to enter into the room of a great officer, similarly, demigod worship means to get the result very quickly. And we may ask any type of benefits and reward from the demigods. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam. That will be explained in the Seventh Chapter.

So demigod worship may be bring quickly the resultant action, desired result, but antavat tu phalam tesam [Bg. 7.23]. The result is antavat; it is limited. But bhakti is not limited. Bhakti is unlimited. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. But people.... Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam. Those who are less intelligent, instead of worshiping the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they worship the demigods. Kanksantah karmanam siddhim yajanta iha devatah. Therefore people are more interested in worshiping demigods than Krsna. The demigods.... In India especially we will find. There are many devotees of the demigods. Not devotees. Devotion is only applied in connection with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The demigod worship, they are not devotee, but they are interested to get the reward from the demigod. Otherwise they are not interested.

But bhakti is not like that. The bhaktas, they are not after any reward from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is difference between bhakti and other demigod worship. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He is teaching us bhakti. He says, na dhanam na janam na sundarim kavitam va jagad-isa kamaye: "My Lord, I do not wish to ask from You opulence, riches, nice wife or many followers." These are material opulences. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, "I do not want all these things."

na dhanam na janam na sundarim
kavitam va jagad-isa kamaye
mama janmani janmanisvare
bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki tvayi
[Cc. Antya 20.29, Siksastaka 4]

That is the desire of devotee. He doesn't want even liberation. Janmani janmani. He wants to serve the lotus feet of the Lord birth after birth. That is his aspiration.

So ksipram hi manuse loke siddhir bhavati karma-ja. So karma-kandiya, those who are on the platform of fruitive activities, generally they are attracted by the demigod worship. But vita-raga-bhaya-krodhah [Bg. 2.56], those who are detached from material happiness, they becomes attached to Krsna. Man-maya mam upasritah. That is already explained. Now we have to make our choice whether for temporary benefit we shall worship demigods or for permanent benefit we shall worship Krsna. That is our choice. But people generally make their choice: ksipram hi manuse loke siddhir bhavati, immediate result. Immediate result. That will be explained that immediate result, it may be very palatable in the beginning, but it is.... It will produce bitter result at the end. But that we do not consider. We want immediate.

The immediate result and remote result is described in Sanskrit word, sreyas and preyas. Preyas means immediate benefit and sreyas means ultimate benefit. So those who are interested in the ultimate benefit go back to home, back to Godhead. For them, worshiping the Supreme Lord is most beneficial. And those who are interested in the matter of temporary benefit, dhanam dehi, rupam dehi, yaso dehi. Just like by worshiping goddess Durga we want all these things. But we forget that whatever we get, material benefit, with the end of this material body, everything is lost. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that "At the end, I, as death, I take away all your material possession." Sarva-haro mrtyuh.

So that is not good. We, because we are eternal -- nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13) -- we should be after eternal happiness, eternal benefit. That should be our business. Therefore we should not be karma-ja, not karmi. Neither we should become jnanis. We should become yogi. And what kind of yogi? Bhakti-yogi. Because there are different types of yoga practices. Out of that, bhakti-yoga is the topmost. Because Krsna says, bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. Without being in the bhakti-yoga, neither you can be happy, nor you can understand what is Krsna and what is your relationship with Krsna. Evam prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah [SB 1.2.20]. If you want to be happy, then bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah, it can be possible. Nityam bhagavata-sevaya. That is stated, nasta-prayesv abhadresu nityam bhagavata-sevaya [SB 1.2.18].

This class is held for the benefit of the human society. And this is the process of nityam bhagavata-sevaya. Srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah [SB 1.2.17]. If you regularly hear about Krsna.... Why regularly? Constantly. If we practice in such a way that we shall hear about Krsna, talk about Krsna, chant about Krsna, eat about Krsna, work about Krsna, sleep about Krsna, walk about Krsna, that is Krsna consciousness movement. Srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah. Anything we do in relationship with Krsna is pious. Punya-sravana-kirtanah. Nirbandhah krsna-sambandhe yuktam vairagyam ucyate. This is the instruction of Srila Rupa Gosvami. Dovetail everything with Krsna activities, Krsna consciousness. That is the recommendation. Then our life will be successful.

And Krsna is sitting within your heart. When He sees you, that you are very serious about Krsna, then He helps you.

srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah
punya-sravana-kirtanah
hrdy antah-stho hy abhadrani
vidhunoti suhrt satam
[SB 1.2.17]

Krsnah abhadrani vidhunoti. We have got many dirty things within our heart, but as soon as we begin to hear about Krsna.... Just like we are hearing about Krsna. Krsna is speaking about Himself. Krsna is speaking about the situation of this material world. He'll speak about the spiritual world. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita. So if you regularly hear, that is the beginning of success of life, hearing.

The Vedas are called hearing, sruti. One has to hear Vedas from the right person. That is the recommendation of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. To achieve success in self-realization or God realization, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommends, sthane sthitah: "You just remain in your present position. You remain as a grhastha or as a brahmana or as a sannyasi, as a businessman, professional man. It doesn't matter." Sthane sthitah: "You remain as a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra. It doesn't matter. But..." Sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih: "Just try to hear about Krsna," sruti-gatam, aural reception. Sruti-gatam means aural reception. Tanu-van-manobhih. "And try to employ your body, words," tanu-vak, and manah, "mind, engaged in Krsna's service." Tanu-van-manobhih. Sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhir ye prayaso 'jita jito 'py asi.

Krsna's another name is Ajita: He is never conquered. But any person who hears about Krsna, jnane prayasam udapasya namanta eva san-mukharitam bhavadiya-vartam, simply mental speculation, giving up this bad habit, jnane prayasam udapasya, leaving aside, namanta eva, very humbly and meekly, if one hears from the realized soul about Krsna, then in any position, sthane sthitah, because he is hearing from the realized soul, then one day it will be possible to conquer the unconquerable. Prayaso 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyam.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is to give chance to everyone to hear about Krsna. This is the first process, sravanam. And when one has heard very nicely about Krsna, they can, then he can speak about Krsna. And he must speak. You cannot remain without speaking. That is the result of sravanam. Sravanam kirtanam. One who has heard nicely, he must speak or preach. And preaching and hearing about whom? Sravanam kirtanam visnoh. Visnu and Krsna, the same thing.

sravanam kirtanam visnoh
smaranam pada-sevanam
arcanam vandanam dasyam
sakhyam atma-nivedanam
[SB 7.5.23]

These nine different process of Krsna consciousness movement is being pushed on by the members of Krsna conscious society all over the world. And we have opened also here in Bombay, the most important city of India. So we request you all to come every day and try to understand this philosophy of Krsna consciousness based on Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Vedanta-sutra, Ramayana, Mahabharata, all authentic scriptures.

There is no concoction, there is no manufacturing, malinterpretation. We are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is, without any deviation. So if we take advantage of this process of understanding, srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah [SB 1.2.17], then gradually we shall be bereft of all sinful activities, resultant action of sinful activities. Hrdy antah-stho hy abhadrani. Abhadrani means inauspicious things accumulated within our heart. By this Krsna kirtana, as recommended by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], the heart is cleansed. It is just like mirror. Ceto-darpana-marjanam. So as soon as our heart is cleansed, then we can understand immediately what is Krsna, what I am, what is my relationship with Krsna and how I should act in relation to Krsna. This is perfection of life. (aside about microphone) What had happened? Thank you very much, Hare Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.12 -- Bombay, April 1, 1974

"This Skin=Suffering,This Happiness=Hankering"

74/08/03 Vrndavana, Bhagavad-gita 4.11



Nitai: "...I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Prtha."

Prabhupada:

ye yatha mam prapadyante
tams tathaiva bhajamy aham
mama vartmanuvartante
manusyah partha sarvasah
[Bg. 4.11]

Now, in the Caitanya-caritamrta, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Actually, our position is eternal servant of Krsna. This is our real position. But artificially, we are trying to become master. This is called maya. Actually, my position is servant.

Just like a woman. Natural position is to remain dependent on man. That is natural position. But if some woman artificially tries to become man or master, that is suffering. That is suffering. We have given this example that in India the women, they voluntarily surrender to the subjugation of the husband, but there are many families, hundreds and thousands even -- they are happy. That's a fact. And in the Western countries they want to remain independent, so they are not happy. This is my study because I have seen the Western world and the Eastern world. Similarly, naturally, a woman is dependent.

Similarly, we are, we are prakrti. Prakrti means one who is controlled. That is called prakrti. And purusa means the controller. So our position in this material world, that we have revolted against Krsna, "Why should we, shall I serve Krsna?" Therefore we are subjugated by the external energy, Krsna's energy, material nature. We are not supposed to be controlled by material nature so that we are now under the jurisdiction of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.

That is described in the Bhagavad-gita that na jayate mriyate va kadacit. For the living entity, there is no death, there is no birth. But this is something fictitious. Every one of us experience birth and death. But the real fact is na jayate mriyate va. But we are so foolish, we do not inquire that "In the sastra it is said that we have no birth and no death. Then why I am dying and why I am taking my birth?" This is our punishment.

We are... Actually, our real constitutional position is to be controlled by Krsna, but because we have revolted against Krsna, therefore we are servant of maya. Servant is my nature. Therefore it is called, ye yatha mam prapadyante. If you surrender to Krsna, then Krsna controls you, He takes care of you. But if you do not surrender to Krsna, but your position is to surrender, you have to surrender to the laws of material nature and you'll be controlled. Therefore ye yatha mam prapadyante. Mam prapadyante.

Krsna and Krsna's energy... Sakti-sakti-mator abhinna. Krsna's energy is also controller, Durga. Srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir eka chayeva yasya bhuvanani vibharti durga [Bs. 5.44]. Durga is the sakti, external energy. She has got also immense power. Srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana. The material nature is very strong, creating, maintaining and destroying. Srsti-sthiti-pralaya-saktih chayeva. But she's acting under the direction of Krsna. Mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10].

Material energy is very strong, very powerful. You can know that. If there is a strong, a strong storm immediately, so many houses, so many trees and plants can be immediately uprooted. Material nature. If there is big storm in the ocean, it can inundate many cities, many towns. Material energy is very, very strong. That is stated, daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. So we are under the control of the material nature.

Here is a scientist. He knows how much we are controlled by the material nature. So material nature is also Krsna. Material nature... Because material nature is the energy of Krsna... Just like this light. This light is distributing illumination. So this illumination is also light. The illumination is coming from the light. Therefore, so far illumination is concerned, there is in the lamp as well as in the illumination. So energy is not different from the energetic.

But if you want to be controlled by the energy, Krsna says, "Yes, you be controlled." And if you want to be controlled by Krsna, Krsna says, "Yes." Therefore He says, ye yatha mam prapadyante. It is up to you. But you'll be controlled. There is no independence, sir. There is no independence. You'll be controlled. That is your nature. You cannot be controller. That is not possible. "Either you be controlled by Me, personally, or you be controlled..."

Just like in government. A person may say, "I don't care for government. I don't like government." That you can say. But you are controlled. If you go against the government, immediately you'll be arrested and put into the jail. You'll be controlled. You can say like a madman that "I don't want to be controlled. I don't care for government." That is not possible. So if... Therefore ye yatha mam... If you want to be controlled by the prison house, then Krsna says, "Yes, you be controlled." And if you want to be controlled by the civic laws, that also you can do. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajami... Mama vartmanuvartante.

But practically, Krsna, so far those who are transcendentalists, they want to be controlled by three phases of Krsna: Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan. Those who are impersonalists, they want to be merged into the Brahman effulgence. That is also acceptance of being controlled.

Just like if you merge into the ocean... They give this example, generally. So they think that by merging, by dipping into the ocean, they become also ocean. That is not possible. You become controlled by the ocean. Suppose you dip, you dive into the ocean. Does it mean that you become ocean? You become controlled by the ocean. They are under the impression that "I am now a small drop. So if I merge into the ocean, the Brahman, then I'll become Brahman." Is that a very reasonable proposal? You are a drop of water. Scientifically, what is said? Suppose a drop of water is mixed in with the sea water, does it mean the drop becomes sea? What is your scientific explanation? It is also... Eh?

Svarupa Damodara: It has become part of the sea.

Prabhupada: Part of, remains part of the sea. The part of the sea it was, and it remains part of the sea. The sea water means composition of so many molecules of water or...? What is that?

Svarupa Damodara: Yes.

Prabhupada: So how the molecules can become the whole sea? Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah [SB 10.2.32]. The Mayavadi philosophers, they are thinking that "Being merged into the, existence of Brahman, I become Brahman." No, this is a wrong. You cannot become Brahman. You remain the same.

The example is given: just like a green bird enters into the green tree. It does not mean that the bird is mixed. No. The bird is keeping its independence as an individual. But it appears to others, those who do not see properly, that it has merged into the tree. It has actually not merged. And because it does not merge, therefore they fall down. They again come out. That is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah... Vimukta-maninah. They are thinking, "Now I have become one with the Supreme." But actually, that is a false impression. Maninah. Maninah means actually it is not fact, but he's thinking like that. Vimukta-maninah.

Why he's thinking like that? Avisuddha-buddhayah. His knowledge is not perfect. Avisuddha. Visuddha means perfect, and avisuddha means not perfect. Unnecessarily he's thinking that "I have become one with the..." I remain the same part and parcel. As Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7].

Just like a big bag of rice, and you put one grain of rice. It remains one grain, but it appears that it has become one with the bag. That is not possible. Therefore Bhagavata says, "They think like that, but actually it is not the fact." And if you question why they are thinking like that -- avisuddha-buddhayah, means intelligence is not very sharp. Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah, aruhya krcchrena... aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32].

These Mayavadis, they undergo severe penances for becoming merged into the supreme effulgence, Brahman effulgence, sayujya-mukti. It is also not easily obtained. It also requires... So therefore, aruhya krcchrena, by undergoing... Aruhya krcchrena, by severe penances and exercises... Just like the yogis, they also exercise. Aruhya krcchrena. Krcchrena means severe practices. So they reach, they realize Brahman, but after realization also, they fall down. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32]. Because there is no shelter.

I have given several times the example. Just like if you go high in the sky, but if you don't get any shelter, then you come back again. Just like the people are going in the moon planet, but because they actually do not get any shelter, they are coming back again. So that is the position. Simply by worshiping impersonal Brahman, after severe penance and austerity, you can enter into it, but you cannot remain there because there is no ananda. It is simply eternity.

But we are actually eternity, bliss and knowledge, very small portion. Simply eternity will not satisfy us. So eternity also part and parcel of Krsna. So you can enter. Krsna has given you freedom. Therefore He says, ye yatha mam prapadyante. "If you want to merge into the Brahman effulgence, that you can do. Or if you simply want to realize the Paramatma, localized, that you can also do. And you can do also, come to Me." Just like Bhagavad-gita says that

yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutani yanti bhutejya
yanti mad-yajino 'pi mam
[Bg. 9.25]

So if you want to go to Krsna and directly serve Him, associate with Him, that also you can do. Everything is open to you. Ye yatha mam prapadyante.

The materialists, they are surrendering to the material nature. That also, Krsna says yes. They are working so hard, day and night, to gain a material profit. Krsna says, "All right, you can get it." That is also possible. But actual instruction of Krsna is that sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. "You just personally unto Me surrender. That will be beneficial to you." Not that...

Everything is Krsna. You can surrender to so many manifestations of Krsna. Because nothing... Anything you experience, that is Krsna's energy. That is not different from Krsna. That is the conception of oneness. Krsna is expanding Himself by His plenary portion. We are also Krsna. We living entities, being part and parcel of Krsna, we are also Krsna. There is nothing but Krsna. Now it is up to you. If you want to surrender yourself to the Krsna's energy, you can do. If you want to surrender to the Krsna's expansion, that also you can do. If you want to surrender to the Brahman effulgence, that is also Krsna. If you want to surrender [to the] Paramatma feature, that is also Krsna. And if you want to surrender to Krsna directly, that is also Krsna.

Now, the Mayavadi says that whatever you do, you reach to the Supreme. But you reach to the Supreme... That is all right. But Supreme is variety. So one variety...

Suppose if somebody comes into this house, if he enters to the lavatory, that is also house, but that lavatory is not the sitting place. This is variety. Simply by thinking that "Now I have entered the house, my business is finished..." You have entered, any position, you have already entered. Because there is nothing but Krsna. But if you be satisfied by entering into the privy that "Now I have entered the house," that is not very good intelligence. That is not very good intelligence. You cannot say that the privy and the Deity room or the sitting room or the kitchen... These are varieties. You cannot say, by entering into the privy, you think that "I have entered the Deity room." This is a common example.

Krsna is variety. Ye yatha mam prapadyante means there are varieties of Krsna's manifestation. Krsna is there. Krsna personally is there. At the same time, Krsna, energy, they are varieties. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Krsna is one, but His energies are multi-different energies. So you can take shelter of different energies or Krsna directly. The best thing is to take shelter of Krsna directly. That is intelligence. Therefore Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66].

But we prefer to take shelter of Krsna's energy. That is also external energy, this material nature. So Krsna has given us chance. You can work hard in this material energy, but that will not help you. Therefore, those who are devotees, they also take shelter of Krsna's energy. That is internal energy, not external energy. Internal. Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah [Bg. 9.13]. Daivim prakrtim means internal energy.

So our business is that we have to take shelter. Instead of taking shelter of the external energy... That is also Krsna. There is no doubt. Krsna, Krsna's energy: nondifferent. But that is not very beneficial to us. We have to take shelter of the internal energy. Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah [Bg. 9.13]. Daivim prakrtim means internal energy.

And Srimati Radharani is the, mean, the symbol of internal energy. Therefore we take shelter of Srimati Radharani in Vrndavana, and that is our perfection of life. Then it will be easier to associate with Krsna very easily. That should be our motto.

Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg. 4.11]. Here it is said, "People who are attached to the bodily conception of life are so absorbed in materialism that it is almost impossible for them to understand that there is a transcendental body which is imperishable, full of knowledge and eternally blissful." So we have now surrendered to the bodily concept of life. We have to understand, therefore, what is our spiritual life. The Bhagavad-gita teaches in the beginning that "You, you have surrendered to the bodily con..., but it is wrong. You'll never be happy. You try to understand your spiritual identification." And surrender to the spiritual energy. That is required. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Otherwise, you cannot avoid Krsna.

Just like you cannot avoid government control. That is not possible. Either you are in jail life or you are in free life, you are always under government control. Similarly, either we remain in the material world or we remain in the spiritual world, we are controlled by Krsna. There is no escape. You cannot do that. But if you remain controlled by the spiritual energy, by directly being controlled by Krsna, not by His energy, or by His internal energy, then you will be happy. That is the ambition of persons who are in Krsna consciousness.

Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.11 -- Vrndavana, August 3, 1974

"Know Krsna -- Get Liberation"

66/07/28 New York, Bhagavad-gita 4.11-12


Prabhupada:

ye yatha mam prapadyante
tams tathaiva bhajamy aham
mama vartmanuvartante
manusyah partha sarvasah
[Bg. 4.11]

This sloka, this verse, we discussed last Friday evening, and I tried to explain the supreme leadership of the Supreme Lord. By nature we are destined to follow a leadership. Nobody is independent. Even in the animal society, the animals, they have also got a group, and there is leader of the group. Perhaps you know it. So in every group... And we are trying to make some group according to the similarly of thought and propensities. There are association, you know, various association, mercantile association, bankers' association, lawyers' association, and there is a leader. That is the nature's way.

Now, the supreme leader is Sri Krsna. That we do not know. Supreme leader, the leadership is accepted, but we do not know that the supreme leader is the Supreme Lord, or Krsna. So that is informed in the Vedic literature, and in the Bhagavad-gita also, the same thing is confirmed, that ye yatha mam prapadyante: "Now, everyone is under My leadership, everyone. There is no exception." Especially He mentions the manusya. Manusya means the human being. The human being especially mentioned here because amongst all the human beings in this lower status of our existence, the human being is considered the highest perfectional stage of living condition. And especially human being has the prerogative to understand the supreme leadership of Sri Krsna. The animals cannot understand it, or the persons who are in the animal nature...

Just like you will find in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gita. The Lord says,

na mam duskrtino mudhah
prapadyante naradhamah
mayayapahrta-jnana
asuram bhavam asritah
[Bg. 7.15]

"Those who are always engaged in mischievous activities, those who are fools, those who are lowest of the mankind, and those whose knowledge has been deluded by the external energy, they do not make their surrender unto the Supreme Lord." But there are other persons who are virtuous. They are considered that arto jijnasur artharthi jnani ca bharatarsabha [Bg. 7.16]. There are other persons who are distressed and in need of some wealth or inquisitive or really research worker in the field of understanding what is the Absolute Truth. And this morning we were discussing in the morning class that the person who are research scholar in the matter of understanding the nature of Krsna, transcendental nature of Krsna, he is called jnani, or philosopher, and he is accepted, with bhakti, with devotional service, he is accepted as special for the attention of the Supreme Lord.

Now, everyone... Therefore everyone is following the leadership or the representative of the leadership. Now you will find in the Bhagavad-gita. When there is some specific qualification of a person, just like political leader or some spiritual leader... Leader there must be. So suppose a political leader or religious leader is there, and thousands of people are following him. So that is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita, that they are invested with certain power of Sri Krsna. Yad yad vibhutimat sattvam mama tejo 'msa-sambhavam. So everyone is following directly or indirectly the supreme leadership of Krsna. And the perfectional stage of accepting that leadership is when we accept Sri Krsna as our direct leader.

We are going to that path gradually, going to that path gradually, but in the middle, we are hampered because there is want of sufficient knowledge. When sufficient knowledge is there... You'll find in the Bhagavad-gita. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births, when one is developed in his real consciousness, he can understand." What? What he understands? Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah: [Bg. 7.19] "That Krsna is the Supreme. He is all in all, so I have to surrender unto Him." That is the perfection of knowledge. This stage one has to reach. Never mind whether he is following a principle of philosophical research, whether he is following the yogic principle, or whether he is following philanthropic work or political leadership or... So many things are going on, but the whole thing is targeted toward Krsna. How it is targeted? That is explained. I shall try to explain.

Now, the whole material world is working under two energies: the lower energy and the higher energy. And the both of the energies, they have got different dimensions. Just like in this atomic age, you know, the material energy ends in the atomic portion, atoms, paramanu. Similarly, this is... Material energy is called lower energy, and there is another energy which is called spiritual energy. So both the energies, they are emanating from the Supreme Lord. In the Vedanta-sutra also, it is confirmed, janmady asya yatah: [SB 1.1.1] "All energies, they are coming, emanating, from the Supreme." In the Bhagavad-gita also, you will find the same thing confirmed. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "I am the fountainhead," Lord Sri Krsna said. "I am the fountainhead of everything." So now to understand how everything is He, so two energies are working in this world in our experience. One is superior energy, or the higher energy, and the other is the inferior energy. The inferior energy is matter, and the superior or the higher energy is the spirit soul.

So as we find... You have got now... We have no experience. Scientific advancement of knowledge, so far we have in this material world, that is bounded within the area of material energy. They have not succeeded in finding out the spiritual energy. Otherwise they would have given life to the dead man. That has not been possible. Suppose a man is dead. What is that death? Death means separation of two energies: the material energy and the spiritual energy. That is death. The supreme spiritual energy and the atomic part of it, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, mamaivamso jiva-bhutah... [Bg. 15.7]. Just you have experience in this atomic age, the minute quantity of atomic material existence, similarly, there is spiritual atomic existence. Now, this spiritual atomic existence...

The other day I explained and several times that atom is also described in the Padma-Purana, Vedic literature. And what is the form of that spiritual energy, I mean to say atom, spiritual atom? It is ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. You have got experience up to the upper portion of the hair. It is just a little point. Now divide it into ten thousand parts, and that one part is yourself, spiritual atom. This is our position. And that spiritual energy is so powerful that we, from that one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair... It is not manufactured.

So far what I am speaking to you, it is from authentic sastras. The original verse is that, kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca, jiva-bhagah sa vijneyah sa anantyaya kalpate [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. The exact verse is in Sanskrit that jivas, the living entities, they are ananta. Ananta means there is no limit, how many there are. Ananta, unlimited. Unlimited. And a small. Just like in the material world also, you will find unlimited atomic existence, similarly, in the spiritual also, there are unlimited spiritual atoms. And one of the atoms is myself and yourself or the ant or the elephant. Everyone is containing that atomic portion of spiritual energy. And from that atomic spiritual energy develops this material body, from that spiritual.

The matter cannot develop. Matter cannot develop. That you have got experience. A dead body does not develop. A living body develops. A child, when it comes out of the mother's womb, if the child is dead, oh, there is no further development, however you can keep the child in a very antiseptic way preserved. No. There is no development. Therefore it is concluded that the supreme spirit, Krsna, from Him everything has come out. Everything has come out. Any stage you take, that is Krsna.
And whenever I surrender... Because my position is to surrender. I am spiritual, that atom, however big body I can develop. I can develop the body like an elephant, but the elephant is conducted under the direction of a man. You know? Such a big animal is controlled by a small boy of human being. So everyone is under control. We cannot deny that. So we have to... We are under control of different dimensions of that spiritual energy covered by material energy. But the real control is from Krsna. That we have to understand. Either we follow this path or that path...

Now, suppose there are impersonalists who believe in the ultimate, I mean to say, merging into the supreme effulgence, brahmajyoti. And what is that brahmajyoti? Brahmajyoti is just the atomic spiritual combination of atomic spiritual portions. That is brahmajyoti. Just like the sun rays. Those who are scientists, those who know what is the sun ray... The sun ray is a small molecular, glazing atom, the sun ray. You have got experience of sun ray, but what is the sun ray? It is not homogeneous. It is heterogeneous. When you can analyze the sun ray, you'll find small particles of molecules. Similarly, brahmajyoti is also spiritual atoms combined together. Just like the sun rays, different material molecules combined together, similarly, brahmajyoti is also like that. Now as in the sun rays there are different planets -- they are also generated from the sun rays -- similarly, from the brahmajyoti there are different planets, but those planets we cannot see here. That is beyond this sky. So in that planets, spiritual planets, there are different forms of God, Krsna. That is described in the Brahma-samhita.

advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam
adyam purana-purusam nava-yauvanam ca
vedesu durlabham adurlabham atma-bhaktau
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.33]

Just like Krsna has expanded Himself with these molecular atomic portions of these living entities, similarly, He has got many other expansions as Visnu. So that is the nice subject matter. (aside:) Raymond, you can get there light.

So in every way this is a subject matter for studying, scrutinizingly studying, Krsna science. Krsna science is a great science. Therefore Krsna has said just in the beginning of this chapter, janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah. Yo vetti tattvatah. Anyone who understands Krsna scientifically, what He is, how He is working, how His energies are acting... These things are to be known. And one who simply knows this science -- what happens? Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Simply by knowing this science he becomes liberated soul. He becomes liberated soul. And what is the position of liberated soul? Liberated soul, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. That person who is liberated simply by knowing the transcendental nature of Krsna, he is liberated, and he at once transferred to the spiritual sky into that planet which I am describing, Vaikuntha planet. There are innumerable Vaikuntha planets, and each and every planet, Krsna is there in different Narayana forms.

So this is the opportunity in the human life to understand this. We are submitting to different energies of Krsna. But if we directly submit ourself to Krsna, what He, Krsna, what He is, that is not very difficult to know because Krsna comes in this material world and displays His real nature. Anugrahaya manusyanam, in Bhagavata. Just to inform the human society that "If you have no knowledge of Krsna, just see. I have incarnated. How I am doing, you can see. You can have."

Just like something extraordinary happening in India, and if there is some photograph, cinematograph, and you see in the picture by a scope, cinema, you see the actually, what is happening. But Krsna's pastimes is not like that. Just like originally, the incidence which is happening in India, you have got a photograph. You see in cinema. This cinema picture is a shadow of that actual picture. But when Krsna comes, because He is absolute, the same picture, which is in the spiritual world, the same picture is represented here. There is no difference. Advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam adyam purana-purusam nava-yauvanam ca [Bs. 5.33].

Krsna is described as nava-yauvana. Some of you must have seen the picture of Krsna. He is always just like a boy of twenty years old, although He is the adi-purusa. Adi-purusa means He is the original person of all emanations. He is the oldest. Advaitam acyutam anadim, adyam purana-pu... Purana-purusam means the oldest. Purana means old. Purana-purusam; still, nava-yauvanam ca, just like a young man of twenty years old, full energy, full youthfulness.

This is the science of Krsna. So simply by knowing this science of Krsna, if we can get liberation from these material miseries of life, why should we not try for this? Let us try for Krsna consciousness. It is a very nice subject matter and very easy. We are just trying to propagate this Krsna consciousness. We don't ask you to have some troublesome or laborsome gymnastic. No. You simply come and hear, and this hearing, it is followed by nice music and singing. And beginning with music, ending with music, everyone will like it. And we have no means... Of course, whatever means I have got, I am distributing little fruit. But the process is -- Lord Caitanya, who introduced this process -- after this termination of this performance of chanting and reciting, distribution of prasadam, nice palatable dishes for eating. So Bhagavad-gita says, su-sukham: "This is a process is very palatable and very pleasurable and very easy." And still, you get Krsna. Although it is the easiest and most pleasurable and happy mood, still you get the Supreme.

And you don't require any qualification. It doesn't require that you have to become a great learned scholar. No. Simply by the gift of Krsna you have got these two ears. If you simply give aural reception to this transcendental word, that is sufficient. It does not require any extraneous education that you have to pass M.A. examination or D.A.C. or Ph.D. or something like that. No. So why should you not take advantage?

Satam prasangan mama virya-samvidah. Krsna says in Bhagavata, satam prasangan mama virya-samvido bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah kathah [SB 3.25.25]. If we actually take advantage of association of realized persons and if we hear from them, then the result is that it becomes very pleasing to the heart and the ear. Satam prasangan. Not to asatam. One must be realized soul in describing the science of Krsna. Then the result will be that the audience will feel that it is very nice to hear, and it is appealing to the heart. Satam prasangan mama virya-samvido bhavanti hrt-karna [SB 3.25.25]. Hrt means heart. Karna means ear. Hrt-karna-rasayanah, very pleasing.

Now, we have received this news, very pleasing. Now next duty? Taj-josanat. Now, if you little try to assimilate it. And what is that assimilation? Smaranam. Simply by thinking, "Oh, this has been spoken." Try to argue whether it is true or not. So you have to think over. Satam prasangan, taj-josanad asv apavarga-vartmani. And if you do that... Suppose you hear something of the Bhagavad-gita, and it appeals to you, or even does not appeal to you. Just try to think over: "What Bhagavad-gita says? How Swamiji has discussed this matter?" Apply your arguments. Apply your logic. Don't take it as a sentiment or as a blind faith. You have got reason; you have got arguments; you have got sense. Apply it and try to understand it. Neither it is bogus. It is scientific. Then you will feel... Taj-josanad asv apavarga-vartmani sraddha ratir bhaktir anukramisyati. You will gradually develop your attachment for hearing it, and devotional service will be invoked in your heart, and then, gradually, you will make progress.

But one thing. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, once you begin, even one percent you can realize, that will never be lost. That will remain a permanent settlement. Now suppose if you are trying for BA examination, or you have passed your B.A. examination. Now, with the end of this body, that, your qualification as graduate of Columbia University or any university, is finished. Now your life begins in another body, and you have to acquire knowledge again to become qualified to graduate. But this knowledge is not like that. Because it is spiritual knowledge, absolute knowledge, it goes with you, your spirit. That you will find, explanation. And another chance is that one who tries to assimilate this knowledge, even if he is not, I mean to, perfect, so there is no harm. Because whatever he has learned, that remains an asset, and you get another chance of human body to begin from where you have ended in this life.

Yoga-bhrastah. Sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrasto 'bhijayate [Bg. 6.41]. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gita. Sucinam and srimatam. Sucinam means purified family. Just like in India we have got the ideal purified family, a brahmana. Of course, nowadays, due to material advance of civilization, everything is polluted, but according to... Still there are some families, very purified. If you go to their house, at once you will feel, "Oh, it is a place, fully purified." So sucinam. Sucinam means in the family of such purified brahmanas. And srimatam. Srimatam means in the family of rich men.

Why these two chances are given? Because in the family of a pure cultural family, you get the chance of regenerating your lost spiritual consciousness which was unfinished in your last life. That you get chance. And in the rich man family you get chance because you haven't got to bother yourself how to maintain your body and soul together. Rich men get the opportunity that they haven't got to think over much about the maintenance of the body and soul together. Ordinary men, they have to seek how to earn the bread. Problem of bread is there. And for a rich man there is no such problem. He can advance in culture. He has the opportunity. But unfortunately, a rich man's sons are misguided. They get some money without earning and they spend like anything for sense gratification. You see? But he should know, "Oh, I have got this opportunity by the grace of Krsna. Now let me peacefully advance myself in the science of Krsna." This opportunity is offered by Krsna, but we misuse.

Still, we should not wait for the chance of another birth. We should take the opportunity in this birth. Just like Krsna prescribes here that simply by knowing the transcendental nature of Krsna and His transcendental activities, one can get liberated. Why don't you do that? Why should you wait for another birth, either in the rich man's family or in the pure family of a brahmana? Because it is not exactly sure that because a person is born in the family of a pure brahmana, he is elevating spiritually. No. Sometimes we see that he is degrading because he is misusing or by bad association or the parents is not training.

So we should not miss this opportunity of human life and follow this instruction that janma karma me divyam yo vetti tattvatah: [Bg. 4.9] anyone who simply understands the transcendental nature of Krsna, he becomes a liberated person. This opportunity we should take.

And ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg. 4.11]. And we are already under the control of some leadership. That is a fact. Why should we not take exactly, directly, the leadership of Krsna? This is the process. If you have got any doubt, that "Why should I take the leadership of Krsna?" the answer is there in the Bhagavad-gita. This is the real study of Bhagavad-gita. In the Bhagavad-gita the Lord says that "Arjuna, you are My dear friend. Therefore, although I have explained all the different branches of, I mean to say, spiritual cultivation, but the most confidential thing just I am telling you because you are My very dear friend." Sarva-dharman parityajya: [Bg. 18.66] "Just give up everything, and just be surrendered unto Me. I shall give you all protection." So instead of accepting so many infidel or imperfect leadership, let us accept the leadership of Krsna and make our life perfect. That is the whole philosophy.

Now, in the next sloka the Lord says,

kanksantah karmanam siddhim
yajanta iha devatah
ksipram hi manuse loke
siddhir bhavati karma-ja

Now, I accept some particular class of leader because I belong to that status of ideas. So therefore you know that in the Vedic literature there are names of many demigods. Sometimes the Hindus are criticized that "Hindus have got many gods." But they are not the Supreme God. If somebody is a serious student of Upanisads, they will find that the demigods described, they are all, I mean to say, servants of the Supreme Lord Krsna. But here it is said, kanksantah karmanam siddhim.

Sometimes we want something immediately by worshiping these demigods. Just like it is mentioned that if one wants to be free from diseases, he has to worship the sun-god. If one has to become very beautiful or he wants a beautiful wife, then he has to worship Uma. Similarly, there are different gods named in the Vedic literatures, and they become successful. That is not unreal. By worshiping those different demigods for particular purpose, they become successful. That is a fact. But in another place you will find in the Bhagavad-gita that it is said, I mean to say, kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah yajanty anya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. Kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah: "Those who are misguided by material desires, they take the shelter of other demigods."

One goes to the worship of demigods because one is persuaded for a particular purpose. Just like one who wants to be very healthy man or to be free from all diseases, he worships the sun-god. Or one who wants to have a beautiful wife or becomes himself a very beautiful human, he worships the devi Uma.

But one who is convinced, one who is convinced that "I am not this body..." This is the thing, "I am not this body." The material wants means bodily demands. Then he does not go to all these demigods. He takes at once shelter of the Supreme Lord. Jnanavan. Jnanavan, who has understood the problems of life. Jnanavan. Jnana means who has understood the spiritual nature of the living being, he is called jnanavan. So jnanavan. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. One who has become really learned, even after many, many births, and knows that "I am not this body; I am spirit. My nature, my advancement, my happiness, is depending on the advancement of my spiritual life," such a person only can take shelter of Krsna and perfectly.

Others, of course, as it is said, that those who are distressed or those who are in need of some wealth, they also go to worship Krsna, but for some temporary relief. But the benefit is that even such persons go to Krsna worship for some temporary relief, but the benefit is that because he has gone to Krsna, therefore, at the ultimate end, he will be devoid of all these material desires and will absolutely take shelter of Krsna. There are many instances of that type, of that type.

Just like Dhruva Maharaja. Dhruva Maharaja, he went to worship Krsna just to have the property of his father. That's a long story. The property of his father... The father has two wives, and Dhruva Maharaja's mother was neglected by the king. So he was going to be bereft of the father's property. So he wanted father's property. He went to in the forest to worship Krsna just to ask Him, "Give me my father's property." There was a desire. But, you will be glad to understand, when Dhruva Maharaja, after finishing his tapasya, or penance, when he saw Krsna, when Krsna appeared before him as Visnu: "My dear boy, now whatever you want you can ask. I shall give you," now, he said, "Oh, my Lord, I don't want anything anymore."

There is a verse, svamin krtartho 'smi varam na yace: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "My dear Lord, I am so satisfied that I have no desire to ask You." Why? Sthanabhilasi tapasi sthito 'ham:(?) "I came to accept this severe type of penance just to acquire the land of my father, or just desiring the possession of a few acres of land or any... But I have seen You. Who are You?" Deva-munindra-guhyam: "Who is never seen even by the great demigods or great sages or great men by many years penances. Therefore my profit is that I came to search out some particles of glass, broken glass, and I have got the diamond. So what I have got to ask You? I am now satisfied."
So result is that even one is in need of money or he is in distress, as we'll find in the Seventh Chapter, that catur-vidha bhajante mam sukrtino 'rjuna, so even if you have got some desire within yourself, so the Bhagavad-gita says, in spite of having that desire, you can worship Krsna and ask so that in future your desires will be desireless. You will not ask anything because that is pure devotion. So we have to wait.

Just like jnani. Jnani, he does not desire anything to take in exchange, but he simply wants to know Krsna, "What is my relation with Krsna?" This is called jnani. He has no other desire. Therefore eko bhaktih visisyate. Jnani has been eulogized. So even I am not jnani, even I am a needy person, if I take to Krsna and ask Him, that process is also recommended because ultimately, when I shall be purified, I shall know my real nature. Then I shall say like Dhruva Maharaja, svamin krtartho 'smi varam na yace: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "My dear Lord, I am fully satisfied. I don't want anything." Because spiritual consciousness, Krsna consciousness, is so bright, so illuminated and so valuable that in the presence of such consciousness, you will directly deny to have any valuable things of this material world.

So we have to attain to that state. That is the real aim of life, and Lord Krsna personally is teaching in the Bhagavad-gita. Why should we not take advantage of this? We should not refuse. If we refuse... We can refuse because we are individual souls with independence. If you like, you can refuse, but we should not refuse. Here Krsna says that "Those who does not come to My leadership, but he goes indirectly to other leaders..." We worship leadership -- why? Because we want something from that leadership. Just like in India during the independence movement, so many people took part in the Congress movement, and later on, they became all ministers and high officers although they had no position in India's past life. So it is possible that if we worship other demigods, we can get some temporary relief from our distress, but if you take to Krsna, then the relief is permanent, and tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9], we can give up this body and go directly to the spiritual kingdom to be associated with Krsna.

Now, here Krsna says, kanksantah karmanam siddhim yajanta iha: "People are deluded for temporary relief, and therefore they go to worship demigods." They get some immediate relief. That is their profit. But ksipram hi manuse loke siddhir bhavati karma-ja. If you want some temporary relief, then you can worship this or that. But if you want really the ultimate relief... And that is the goal of human life, ultimate... Everyone is trying to get out of miseries. The whole struggle, either in the material field or in the spiritual field, the whole struggle is to get out of some misery.

So perfect man or a very intelligent man, he should try to have the highest benefit of this life, and that is surrendering unto Krsna. That is surrendering unto Krsna. If we do that, then we are both materially and spiritually benefited. You will find in the later slokas that tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam [Bg. 10.10]. The exact word, I forget now. It is said that "Those who are engaged in Krsna consciousness," Krsna says, "I supply them all that he needs. He hasn't got to ask anybody." Krsna knows.

Just like the father knows what is the necessity of his child who is depending fully on the father. The father may neglect of the grown-up children who is looking after his own business, but the child who is completely dependent on father and mother, the father-mother takes care.

Similarly, Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says, yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Anyone who is fully in Krsna consciousness without any consideration, then everything is taken care by Krsna. This assurance is given. But if you don't believe in that assurance, if you don't believe in Krsna, that is a different thing. But so far Bhagavad-gita is concerned, if we become fully Krsna consciousness then our ultimate solution of all problems will be solved. That is a fact. Now if you have got any question, you can ask. [break]

Prabhupada: ...atomic, atom consistency of matter, have you got experience?

Guest (1): Not experience.

Prabhupada: No, at least you have heard that there is atom.

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupada: As in the matter there is atom, similarly, spirit there is atom. Simply... Now, both these, beginning from the supreme down to the atom, this is, they are expansions of different energies of Krsna, either this material atom or the spiritual atom. Now, we are spiritual atoms. We living entities, we are spiritual atoms, and by material atomic combination we have developed this body, although this material body is foreign to me. Similarly, we can develop our spiritual body also in the spiritual world. Is it clear? Just like in the material world, in combination with matter we have developed this material body. Do you believe in this, that "I am spiritual atom, and I have developed this material body on the basis of spiritual atom?" It is a fact. It is a fact.

Just like in the mother's womb when the spiritual atom takes place, then it grows, it forms the material body. Without that spiritual atom, there cannot be any growth of body. Simply sex intercourse does not give guarantee of pregnancy. Unless that spiritual atom is there, the body does not grow. That is... We get information from authoritative sastra. So the whole material world is also grown up upon the spiritual existence. And our whole problem is that instead of having this material body, we have to get our spiritual body. That is Krsna conscious... That is the benefit of Krsna consciousness. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9].

Now, one who goes to Krsna, do you mean to say, "One who goes to Krsna vacant"? No. He goes to Krsna with a body. Just like Krsna has got body, so you also go before Him... Just like you come to me with a body. I go to you with a body. You are a spiritual atom; I am also spiritual atom. Now I have developed this body; you have developed this body. Our meeting is between these two bodies. Similarly, when you go to Krsna, mad dhama, or Krsna's dhama, His abode, we go there with spiritual body. Yes.

Devotee: Does the spiritual contain spacial relationships?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Devotee: Are things bounded by space in the spiritual world. In other words...

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. That is only spiritual. As you have got a material space, similarly, there is spiritual space. As you have got material body, similarly, you have got spiritual body.

Janardana: What is the difference between spiritual body and spiritual atoms?

Prabhupada: Yes. Matter is not eternal, and spirit is eternal. Matter is full of ignorance, and spirit is full of knowledge. Matter is full of unpleasantness, and spirit is full of pleasure, sac-cid-ananda. That is the difference between matter and spirit.

Janardana: And what is the difference between spiritual atoms and spiritual bodies? Or are they the same thing?

Prabhupada: No. Spiritual atom... Just like from the spiritual body, you have developed this material body, similarly, from the spiritual atom, you can develop your spiritual body. Tyaktva deham. Tyaktva deham means that giving up this material body, he develops his spiritual body and then goes to the kingdom of God, or Krsna. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. So when he goes to Krsna, he goes in spiritual body. So there is potency of every living being. Just like he has got the potency of developing this material body, similarly, he has got the potency of developing spiritual body. Is it any difficulty to understand?

So our problem is that we are suffering all kinds of miseries on account of this material body. Now, our business should be that we shall be cultured in Krsna consciousness so that in next life will be my spiritual body. Then the solution of all problems solved. And so long we shall get material body repeatedly -- just like we give up this dress and take another dress, similarly, we shall continue -- then the four kinds of miseries, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [Bg. 13.9], or at least these four kinds of miseries -- the miseries of birth, the miseries of death, and the miseries of old age, and miseries of diseases -- we have to suffer. And as soon as you get spiritual body, all these miseries over. Because your body is no more subjected to birth and death, disease and old age. That life is eternal, full of knowledge, and blissful. That you can get simply by studying the nature of Krsna, transcendental nature of Krsna. So we are hankering after so many things. We are taking the leadership of this leader, that leader, that leader just to relieve, get relief from our temporary misery. So our duty should be just to get rid of all misery by developing that spiritual body. That should be the aim of life. And that is possible by Krsna consciousness. Any other questions? Oh. [break]

Guest (2): I mean if it passes on. It's just a dim thought. That's all.

Prabhupada: Your question is whether miseries are eternal or not.

Guest (2): Eternal thoughts [force?].

Prabhupada: No. Miseries are not eternal. You can end your miseries. But if you want to end miseries materially, that is temporary. If you end your miseries spiritually, that is permanent. Just like in this world we are also trying to end our miseries. Suppose I am distressed or I am diseased. I go to hospital to end my misery. But that misery are not permanent, er, that end of misery is not permanent, temporary. I can get again disease. So long I have got this material body, that miseries can be repeated. That disease can be repeated. But if you get your spiritual body, then there is no more question of miseries. Yes?

Devotee: Is human birth superior in terms of self-realization? Is it superior to the demigods?

Prabhupada: Yes. Demigod is also like you. Just like in the human society there are difference of bodies. One body is richer than the other body. One body is happier than the other body in material estimation. Similarly, in the higher planets there are different bodies who are happier than persons who are living in this earthly planet. It is estimated that their standard of living is higher.

Just like in this planet there are different nations and different people and they have got different standard of living also. Your European and American people, your standard of living better than our Indian people so far material consideration is there. You have got very nice toilet room, but the Indians go to the field to evacuate. So in that way this country is advantageous.

So as you find even in this planet there are different species of life, different species of human kind and they have got different standards of living, similarly, in the higher planets there are also living entities just like us. They are also like men, but their position is different. Their bodily constitution is different. Their living standard is different.

But in spite of different being, they are subjected to the material laws, the birth, death, old age and disease. They are not free from that. Nobody is free. Within this universe, anyone, either human being or demigod or animal or anyone, they are subjected to these four principles of miseries: birth, death, and old age and disease. So when you get out of this material world, then you get free from this. Their duration of life may be greater than your duration of life, but death is sure.

You cannot get rid of death in higher planets. Death is there, sure. The duration of life... Just like a man's duration of life than the duration of the life of a dog is greater, but both are subjected to the principle of death. That one cannot avoid. But if you want to avoid the subjugation under death, then you have to develop your spiritual body, and that is possible by Krsna consciousness. Any other questions? Yes?

Woman: Are there individuals in these bodies?

Prabhupada: You are individual spirit. You are individual spirit. Are you not? Don't you feel it? Don't you feel your individuality?

Woman: Yes, but if one feels love for another[?], I want to be eternally one.

Prabhupada: Yes. You become one in the quality of spirit. Do you follow?

Woman: No, I don't understand that I have got a spiritual body really.

Prabhupada: Oh, then... (chuckles) That you take information from Bhagavad-gita. There is spiritual body. And why it is difficult to understand? You can understand it that your material body has developed from that atomic existence of spirit. You can understand that?

Woman: Yes.

Prabhupada: Similarly, from that atomic spiritual existence, you can develop your spiritual body. What is the difficulty? It is the same process. As you have developed your material body, similarly, you can develop your spiritual body. What is the difficulty in understanding it?

Woman: But by merging, we come to be all alone, one spirit.

Prabhupada: You are merged in matter; still, you have got your individual existence. What is your body? This is matter. Is it not? Then are you not merged with matter? Then still you have got your individual existence. Don't you agree? Similarly, I may merge in the spiritual existence, but still, my individuality will be there. You are merged already in this matter. Just like when you leave this body, your body will be transformed into earth. That means it is already merged. Still, you have got separate existence. And what is that separate existence? Due to that spirit. So even in the matter, if the spirit can maintain separate existence, don't you think in spirit it cannot maintain its separate existence?

Merging means just like aeroplane. Aeroplane is flying in the air, in the sky. When it goes too far, it becomes too small, you say, "It has merged into the sky." But it has got, even in that position, it has got its separate existence. Just like a bird, a parrot, enters a tree. The tree is also green, and the bird is also green. When it enters the tree, you see no separate existence of the bird, but it has got a separate existence. Similarly, either you are in material existence or in spiritual existence you are already merged, but you have got your separate existence. Is it clear? Thank you.

Now let us have sankirtana. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.11-12 -- New York, July 28, 1966