"The Spirit Of The Law"

Mayapura, March 9, 1974



Prabhupada: He's situated as Paramatma, antaryami, everywhere, andantara-stham, within the universe as Garbhodakasayi Visnu, within the heart of everyone, and even within the atom. Then how we can walk? Krsna is within the atom. How we can walk? If somebody says, "How we are walking on the road?" Because in the atom there is God. Within... Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham [Bs. 5.35].

Guest (1): In everywhere...

Prabhupada: So this, this is combination of paramanu, atom. So how we can walk? People may question like that, that "In, within the paramanu, there is Krsna. How we are walking on this road?" So this question you should all understand very... You know that upon the mandira, we do not stay. Just like our Vrndavana mandira is being constructed. There is no residential quarter upon the mandira. Similarly, when the mandira will be constructed, we are not so fool that we'll show, we'll go and stay upon the mandira. But mandira is not constructed yet. So what shall we do?

Guest (1): Worship should go on.

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore we have temporary situated mandira in the same building. We cannot stop our worship. That is not possible. Because one cannot go upon the mandira, because the Lord is now being worshiped within the residence, it does not mean we can stop His worship. Worship must continue in any condition, apratihata, without being impeded by any rules and regulations. This is called raga-marga. Vidhi-marga, and there is raga-marga. Vidhi-marga means under rules and regulations, and raga-marga means out of love. That is another thing. There is another instance. Govinda was personal servant of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So after His dinner, Govinda used to give Him massage on the leg. So one day Caitanya Mahaprabhu fell down on the ground and began to sleep on the door. So Govinda was to give massage to His leg. So he crossed Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and began to...

Guest (1): Walk.

Prabhupada: No, not walk. Giving massage. So He was sleeping. So at two or three o'clock when Caitanya, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu became awake: "Govinda, you are sitting here. You have not taken your dinner?" "No, sir." "Why?" "Now, how could I cross you and take my dinner?" "Then how you came?" "No, that is for Your massaging. (laughter) But I cannot cross You for my dinner."

Guest (1): Yes. "For You I can cross."

Prabhupada: For You, I can do anything.

Guest (1): For You...

Prabhupada: For Your service.

Guest (1): For your service.

Prabhupada: But for my sense gratification, I cannot do that.

Guest (1): Very good answer.

Prabhupada: In a, in the Western countries, I had to sometimes do something which I should not have done. But I've done it to bring so many souls to Krsna.

Brahmananda: The preaching necessitates that.

Prabhupada: Yes. Because if there is no other alternative, what can I do? In the beginning I had no disciples. So I was cooking myself. So one gentleman, he... Later on, he became my disciple. He gave me some place. I was cooking. And in the refrigerator, I saw there was meat. (laughs) So I asked: "What is this?" He said, "It is for cats. I don't take meat." "All right. (laughter) I'll do (?)." So of course, I stayed there for three, four days. And if I cry, "Oh, I have violated my rules and regulations..." Rules and regulations can be violated when there is urgent necessity of service, not whimsically or for one's sense gratification. And that is, of course, in our present..., with the permission of the spiritual master, not one should think, "Oh, I have become so much great devotee, I can violate all the rules and regulations." No, you cannot. If there is need of violating rules and regulations, you must take permission. Now we have no temple. Under the circumstances, we are doing that. So you construct the temple as soon as possible so that people may not criticize you. [break] ...for all grhastha devotees, you should begin preaching amongst the grhasthas. It is not forbidden for the grhasthas to preach. Because preaching is required everywhere. Arjuna was grhastha. So yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. One must know the science of Krsna. Then you can become preacher.

kiba vipra kiba nyasi sudra kene naya

yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]

yare dekha tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa

amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]

This is preaching. It doesn't matter whether one is sannyasi or grhastha, Or a brahmana or a sudra. It doesn't matter. If one knows the science of Krsna then he can become guru. And He said, "By My order, you become guru and deliver your country." Ei desa. Ei desa means "your country." "So what is to be done?" "Now, just whomever you meet, you instruct him about the instruction given by Krsna." [break] ...seeing that "Why our, you are living on the top of the temple?" You inform them that, "You have not seen yet temple. It is not temple."

Guest (1): It is temporary...

Prabhupada: You have yet to see what is temple. "Temple will be constructed. This is not temple." I wanted to stay in the dharmasala of Tirtha Maharaja, to construct the temple. I requested him that "Some of my men will stay in the dharmasala." He refused. Then how can I construct temple? Therefore I have first constructed residential quarters. And unless my men live here, how can I construct temple? So this is residential quarter. This is not the temple. The temple has yet to be done. So suppose we have no regularly constructed temple, do you think we shall give up worship of the Lord?

Guest (1): No.

Prabhupada: Then?

Guest (1): We must continue it.

Prabhupada: That's it. Because there is no temple... Bhavananda, you are understanding?

Bhavananda: Oh yes.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): We can do our worship anywhere else.

Prabhupada: Yes. And it is said...

Guest (1): Anywhere, in the jungle, anywhere else.

Prabhupada: ...bhakti. Bhakti, the definition of bhakti is given in the Bhagavata, apratihata. Pratihata means impediment. I have seen amongst the Mohammedans. It is very good. As soon as their namaz time is there, anywhere they will...

Guest (1): Anywhere, anywhere, they will.

Prabhupada: It is very good.

Guest (1): Even on road, they will...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): On the boat, on everywhere.

Prabhupada: Everywhere.

Guest (1): The four times, three times, namaz.

Prabhupada: They're so regulated, as soon as the time is there, anywhere, they'll worship.

Guest (1): There was big trouble about them...

Prabhupada: Eh?

Guest (1): There was big trouble about them in London for some time.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Guest (1): Because they would leave their work and start praying.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Guest (1): Then the work was stopped, and later on, it was sorted out. They were allowed to do their worship.

Guest (2): [break] ...cultured under, say, very comfortable circumstances. This has a relation to constant inquiries from public, specially young men, at the entrance of our mandira, our, this building, these days. I was sort of doing, helping them for entrance and exit. In that course, many young people specially they asked, "How could people living in so much comfortable circumstances could hear and ask for bhakti."

Prabhupada: Then does it mean that those who are...?

Guest (2): I, knew... Yes... Yes...?

Prabhupada: Those who are in uncomfortable situation, they are big bhaktas? (laughter) Can you show me that because they're in uncomfortable situation, they have become big bhakta? Is that the proof? What is this land?

Bhavananda: This land we were looking at a few days ago? You suggested purchasing it for grazing.

Prabhupada: Yes. It is very nice. So it is possible?

Bhavananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: Oh, so do it. [break] ...bhakti's, as I explained, apratihata. Any condition, bhakti can be executed. The example is given: Just like Rupa Gosvami and Ramananda Raya. Ramananda Raya was grhastha and governor, and he was very comfortably situated. And Rupa Gosvami was living underneath a tree every night. And both of them were equally... Rather, Ramananda Raya was accepted in greater position than Rupa Gosvami. Caitanya Mahaprabhu was in renounced order of life, but He gave even better position to Ramananda Raya than Rupa Gosvami. And Ramananda Raya was a grhastha. He was not even a brahmana. And governor, very opulent. Very comfortable situation. You know this?

Guest (2): Yes.

Prabhupada: So how Caitanya Mahaprabhu treated them equally or gave better position to Ramananda Raya than Rupa Gosvami? This question was raised -- not only now -- when our Guru Maharaja started Gaudiya Matha. So he was allowing the sannyasis to live in palatial building and go in car for preaching work. So many such persons questioned, "How is that, sannyasis are going in car, living in palatial building?" So our Guru Maharaja replied that "A devotee should be offered the best comfort of life. And if he would not have introduced this comfortable life, at the same time, to become pure devotee, then these devotees from Western countries will, would never come. They would never agree to sit down under the tree and, imitating Rupa Gosvami... That is not possible." Do you understand or not?

Guest (2): Yes.

Prabhupada: What is your answer?

Guest (2): I answered that...

Prabhupada: No, no. You answer me. I am talking with you.

Guest (2): Actually, I didn't know...

Prabhupada: Now, in our building we have got the most comfortable situation. There is no such sanitary arrangement in any of the temples. But we are trying to give them. Because we deal, dealing in a different atmosphere.

Guest (1): People of the different countries can...

Prabhupada: Yes. And they are...

Guest (1): They are not habituated...

Prabhupada: They are not habituated...

Guest (1): ...with this...

Prabhupada: ...to go on the field and pass, evacuate.

Guest (1): ...to pass their obnoxious and

Prabhupada: Then it will be a great difficulty for them.

Guest (1): ...great difficulties for them. And to...

Prabhupada: They must be given, as far as possible, their western type of comforts and chant Hare Krsna.

Guest (1): And they're born and brought up in this...

Prabhupada: They have sacrificed so much for me. They are ready to lie down under the tree. But it is my duty to see they are, as far as possible, they're comfortably situated. That is my duty. They can agree to live in any condition.

Guest (2): Gargamuni said me like this one day, and myself and one of the devotees went to draw the ration from the river in the distance, two miles off. And the devotee's saying, "We'll go by the car." And "Let us go by the rickshaw."

Prabhupada: Yes, they do like that.

Guest (2): I like to save the paths(?) of the temple. And that devotee's not... Up till devotee, but he was a worker, his whole time living in the temple. And I asked Gargamuni, "Your devotee is saying, 'We'll go by car. It is expensive. Because we are collecting money from the different peoples and from the public. And we must not use our money in this way.' "

Prabhupada: Jaya. For Krsna bhakti, yes.

Guest (2): Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: (Bengali)

Guest (2): (Bengali) [break]

Dhananjaya: ...who are very much attracted to living in Mayapura, residing in Mayapura, after perfecting their lives, do they sometimes join Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's sankirtana movement in Goloka Vrndavana?

Prabhupada: Let me... [break] Those who are living in Mayapura, they have already joined.

Dhananjaya: Haribol.

Prabhupada:

mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena

bhakti-yogena sevate

sa gunan samatityaitan

brahma-bhuyaya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]

"Anyone who has joined devotional service, avyabhicarena, without any reservation, he is already liberated." There is no question of liberation for him, brahma-bhuyaya kalpate. He's already in the Brahman platform. This is bhakti. For a bhaktin, there is no question of liberation. He's already liberated. A millionaire is already rich. He doesn't require to become rich. It is automatically. [break]

Guest (3): (Hindi)

Prabhupada: It is just to give His personal example that a sannyasi should not be very much intimately mixing with rich men. That is by His personal example. He was a sannyasi. He refused to see a king because a king is supposed to be always busy in material affairs. So if... For the general people aspiring to go back to home, back to Godhead, for them, to mix with the materialistic persons is forbidden. Visayinam sandarsanam atha yositam ca [Cc. Madhya 11.8]. Those who are visayi, simply engaged in sense gratification, and yositam... Yositam means women or enjoyable things.

Guest (1): Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hmmm.

Guest (1): Many religious institutions, they welcome the rich peoples. Those who are coming by cars, and those who are coming gorgeously, and they are donating much to the institutions, they are welcomed by the people, management of these institutions. And this is your version. It is just contradictory. I accept your version. It is quite, quite right. And I hope our institution must do not like that. This ISKCON must not do like that. The well-to-do peoples who come, they'll get more... [break] ...more receptions, more congratulations. I request it must be your direction that our institution ISKCON must not do like this. And it is your... (laughter)

Prabhupada: But one, one thing is that we are not living like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. (laughter)

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He was ideal sannyasi, and He was living apart from any material attachment. But we have to do preaching work. We have to construct temple, comfortable temple. So who will pay for that?

Guest (1): Then your version...

Prabhupada: Therefore we have to sometimes do that. Just like that woman, that chaste woman. She served a prostitute...

Guest (1): To make them correct.

Prabhupada: No. Serve prostitute for serving her husband. That is a big story.

Guest (2): Big story, yes.

Prabhupada: Laksa-hira.

Guest (1): Laksa-hira. Yes.

Prabhupada: You know that, Laksa-hira.

Guest (1): And husband was a...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): And he requested his Laksa-hira that "I want to go one night to the..."

Prabhupada: Yes, to the prostitute and her pay, her fee, was laksa-hira, one hundred thousand pieces of diamond. You see.

Guest (1): Yes. I know that, that story.

Prabhupada: So for the satisfaction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we sometimes do that. But we collect money from them not for our sense gratification, but constructing this temple.

Guest (1): For the general public and...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): ...country and...

Prabhupada: And unless we have got temple like this, nobody would come. If I sit down here, "Bhaktivedanta Swami is sitting here," nobody will come. (laughter)

Guest (1): But people, like poor people, like come to the...

Prabhupada: But Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He is God. He can attract any man. But I am not God. I have to attract people by some opulence.

Guest (2): But Prabhupada, in the beginning, you attracted in the park everyone. When you went to America, you were chanting and attracting people just in the park. Same place. (laughter)

Prabhupada: Now, at that time, only Brahmananda was attracted. (laughter) Not you. Not you.

Guest (2): Only because he was sincere soul.

Prabhupada: This Brahmananda and Acyutananda, they first danced in my chanting in the park. The photograph was published in the Times of New York.

Guest (1): And I heard that your first devotee in America, Kirtaniya.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Guest (1): Kirtaniya Swami.

Prabhupada: Kirtanananda Swami.

Guest (1): Kirtanananda Swami.

Prabhupada: Yes, he is next. He is next.

Guest (1): Oh yes, I met him.

Prabhupada: He came next. Brahmananda came first.

Kirtanananda: No, I came first. (laughter)

Prabhupada: No. You were present in that Thompkinson Square?

Kirtanananda: Before that.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Kirtanananda: Before that.

Prabhupada: Oh before that. Yes, yes. Yes, I...

Guest (1): I asked him. And somebody, some devotee...

Prabhupada: Brahmananda you are defeated. (laughter) So kirtana is glorious than brahma-jnana. (laughter)

Guest (1): And some devotee introduced me with him, that "He is the first devotee of Prabhupada in America, in foreign."

Prabhupada: Yes. He's also a priest's son, coming from very respectable, priestly order family.

Guest (1): Last few days, we were enjoying a good day.

Guest (2): But there are so many disciples of one guru. Are they come all in bona fide disciplic succession?

Prabhupada: Hmmm? Well, everyone is in a bona fide disciplic succession provided he keeps that tradition, keeps that tradition. Apani acari prabhu jive sikhaila. One must behave that "I belong to this disciplic succession. I must keep myself fit for the post." Then it is all right. If he deviates, then he deviates the disciplic succession. Hare Krsna. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says frankly that... This is disciplic succession. Amara ajnaya: "Just carry out My order." Then you are in disciplic succession. If you do not keep yourself in the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, then simply by becoming disciple, you are not in the disciplic succession. This is disciplic succession. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said this clearly, amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei: "Wherever you live, you become a spiritual master." How? Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Whomever you meet, you only speak what Krsna has instructed." Then you are disciplic succession. It doesn't matter what you are and where you are. It doesn't matter. This is disciplic succession. And if you think, "Now I am initiated. I am now liberated. I have no other business," then you are not in the disciplic succession. You must preach. That is disciplic succession.

Guest (1): This is the definition of a disciple.

Prabhupada: Yes. Amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128], yare dekha... You have to... Anywhere, any friend, any businessman, "Are you Krsna conscious? Chant Hare Krsna." That's all. What is the loss in that? "My dear friend, I request you to chant Hare Krsna mantra." Where is the difficulty?

Brahmananda: Even a child like Sarasvati, she does.

Prabhupada: Yes? Ah, yes.

Guest (1): She asks everybody. Every child, she will say: "Jump!" "Jump, Jump, Jump!" And she will...

Prabhupada: And if he does not, she'll say: "Syamasundara, here is a karmi." (laughter) So they're... Our Gosain in Radha-Damodara temple, he was smoking. "Malati, Malati see this old man is smoking."

Guest (2): Take this beedie out. Chant Hare Krsna. She was telling.

Prabhupada: Just see. "He's smoking beedie." This man became little ashamed. "Yes, my girl, I'll give it up by and by." She was surprised that a man is smoking. Hare Krsna Hare Krsna... [break] ...drdha-vrata, vows, very rigidly. Bhajante mam drdha-vratah. So if I'm unable, there is no need of starving. No. Because if you become diseased, then your bhajana will be hampered. So you can do it.

Guest (1): (Bengali)

Prabhupada: (Bengali) Or ability, inability, that depends on the person.

Guest (3): (Bengali)

Prabhupada: (Bengali) [break] Adjust their cash.

Guest (2): Cash is different...

Prabhupada: No, no. I mean to say, account computer. But they must tally with their daily balance.

Guest (2): Well, they put in the suspense. When they find out this mistake, that somebody pointed out, then they adjust it. So many times it has happened. But this computer system is not hundred per cent efficient.

Guest (1): One Indian girl, Sakuntala, went to London and America and stay on (?) these computers. She was able to work out computer, one...

Guest (2): She challenged. She challenged.

Guest (2): Sakuntala?

Guest (2): Sakuntala, yes.

Prabhupada: Some girl came to see me. She's little fatty, that girl?

Guest (2): Yes.

Prabhupada: Oh, I think...

Guest (2): She printed a photo in the London papers also and challenged that "I can beat any computers in the western world." [break]

Guest (1): Under one high-court?

Prabhupada: Under one high-court, yes.

Guest (2): Asrama (?) also.

Guest (1): Asambala. (?)

Prabhupada: Hmmm? Yes.

Guest (3): (Bengali) [break]

Guest (2): During the festival days...,

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (4): ...for the last three or four days, many people, specially young men, were asking for different sort of informatory books or leaflets in their own language. And also asking for how they can became members or more closely associated.

Prabhupada: This is very important.

Guest (4): With more translational or a type of...

Prabhupada: So unfortunately, we haven't got any expert Bengali to do these things.

Guest (4): In my own way, I am ready to prepare a sample of the English translation of the books.

Prabhupada: Welcome. It is a great service.

Guest (4): But that must be very cheap.

Prabhupada: Oh, cheap. We can distribute without price. That is not the question.

Guest (4): And also they were asking to be associated more in the facilities for life membership like that with... They feel it's within their reach.

Prabhupada: No life membership, life membership they're... Just like if somebody joins, he's more than life member. But if he does not join, then he becomes life member by paying the fees.

Guest (4): I also...

Guest (5): I want to be a member, and I wish to resign from my present service. And I wish to dedicate my whole life to...

Prabhupada: What is your present service?

Guest (5): At present, I am serving in the steel plant, Hindustan Steel Industry.

Prabhupada: Oh, steel plant.

Guest (5): And I want to, wish to dedicate my whole life to the lotus feet of Lord Krsna.

Prabhupada: That is very good proposal.

Guest (5): And I am a...

Prabhupada: How far you are educated?

Guest (5):. As long as I will live, I will broom and clean the temple.

Prabhupada: Very good. That's all right. You go on doing that.

Guest (5): OK. And then I will submit my resignation.

Prabhupada: That is up to you. I cannot say.

Guest (5): Yes. And my parents are sufficient enough. They have enough land...

Prabhupada: Sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana-srngara-tan-mandira-marjanadau **. Tan-mandira-marjanadau. That is also great service. If you guide other people, and you do yourself, just to keep the temple very neat and clean, it will be a very, very, great service.

Guest (5): Yes, yes, yes. I am ready to do that.

Prabhupada: Well, then you are welcome immediately.

Guest (5): And that is my desire, all, inner desire.

Prabhupada: Apani acari prabhu jive sikhaila. If you show example how to keep the temple neat and clean, then these foreigners also will learn from you. [break] ...those who are earning money, they should... But we are giving them books. So our books are worth about three thousand rupees. But we are simply collecting eleven hundred.

Guest (4): All that they wanted, I understood from the talk, informatory, informations I mean, in their own dialect.

Prabhupada: Well, one thing is that at least in Bengal they do not require much information because this Caitanya Movement is their movement. It is simply a plea. Everyone know that Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to distribute the Hari-nama-sankirtana. This is the essence, and let them help, pranair arthair dhiya vaca, by life, by money, by words. This is the movement. Why they are anxious to get information more? That is a plea. Everyone knows what is Caitanya Mahaprabhu, at least in Bengal.

Bhavananda: I tell them that when they ask.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bhavananda: I say, "Why you are asking me that? You already know."

Prabhupada: Rather, they are to give information. But this is a plea. Bhagavad-gita is, was not made in London. (laughter) It was spoken in India. Why they are asking? That means they have become so rascal and fool they do not know what is Bhagavad-gita, what is Caitanya Mahaprabhu? Their position is so low-graded now?

Guest (1): They do not like to learn it. They do not like to know it.

Prabhupada: That's it. Is Bhagavad-gita imported from London? Why do they ask like this? How much degraded they have become.

Guest (1): And our answers must be like this.

Prabhupada: Yes. As if you are... They are importing knowledge from Lenin, these rascals, and they do not know what is Bhagavad-gita. How much degraded they have become. Just see.

Guest (2): They even go as far as to say that this Bhagavad-gita is adulterated now, and...

Guest (4): Maybe also they...

Prabhupada: Adulterated?

Guest (2): Yeah, they say so many things have been added to it. Sometimes some rascals come to criticize to that extent.

Prabhupada: What is that addition?

Guest (2): Well, when you come to, when you come to ask a specific answer, they say, "If you bring Bhagavad-gita, we'll show it to you."

Prabhupada: So bring Bhagavad-gita. What is the addition?

Guest (2): This was, this was pointed out by quite a few in the train.

Guest (4): No, you can ask them at that time, "Please place one book like that which is adulterated, and it is somehow or another added in it."

Guest (2): But what is their source of knowledge?

Guest (4): They have no, no source of... They like to

Guest (2): Speculate...

Guest (4): They like to convey...

Prabhupada: They do not know what is Bhagavad-gita, but they can say it is added and subtracted. They're... But they do not know what is Bhagavad-gita. Yes.

Brahmananda: Sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. There is no adulteration there. Very simple.

Prabhupada: So you, all Indians, you have to do this. This is simply a plea to avoid. In Bengal, everyone knows Caitanya Mahaprabhu was for chanting Hare Krsna.

Guest (4): But so far, most of them, perhaps, also wanted informations regarding, full informations regarding ISKCON.

Prabhupada: ISKCON. That is a short-cut of "International Society for Krishna Consciousness."

Guest (4): No, that I know, myself. They wanted to know, in their own language, etc... And for that I meant...

Prabhupada: No, it is, it is...

Guest (4): ...a sort of booklet in local dialect, in the Bengali. To be more propagated.

Prabhupada: So I can give you the hints. You prepare a leaflet immediately, and we publish.

Guest (4): Yes, yes. I, we have already prepared. Already...

Prabhupada: Come. I shall give you more hints. Immediately come. I shall give you. Only need... [break] They should come forward. That is needed. Otherwise, everything is there.

Guest (4): I was having discussions with Pancajanya Prabhu regarding these things. Even to have them locally printed.

Bhavananda: Anyway, we can work that out.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bhavananda: Yes, it's all taken care of. [break]

Prabhupada: "Waves in the ocean. Let it, let it be stopped. Then I shall start my boat." It will never come.

Guest (4): Then this is not my intention.

Prabhupada: It will never come.

Guest (4): It is not my intention.

Prabhupada: Start boat immediately, in whatever condition.

Guest (4): Any circumstance.

Prabhupada: Any circumstance. That is required.

Guest (2): We should take it very seriously.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] "First of all let us become economically fit. Then we shall consider our spiritual." This is nonsense.

Guest (1): That will never come.

Prabhupada: All the big, big leaders, they wanted to keep themselves economically fit, but when death came, they had to surrender. "Yes sir, (Bengali)"

Guest (4): Many leaders are economically...

Prabhupada: They do not... They're not leaders. I say they're rascals.

Guest (4): They do not live here, and they must...

Prabhupada: All these leaders, I must say clearly, they're all rascals, misleaders. Not only in our country, all over the world. Therefore we have started this movement, who is real leader? (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura