First you understand the soul, then discriminate what is sin

Germany, June 17, 1975
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Prabhupada: What is there? He is digging? [break] Just see the fun.Devotee: Of all the four pillars of sinful activity, is meat-eating the worst?
Prabhupada: Everything is worst. Sinful is sinful. Disease is disease. This body, either it is living or it is dead, it is not very important thing. Now see. And the whole world is after this body. Krsna says, "The body, either dead or alive, it is not a subject matter for serious consideration." Now see. And what the world is going on? Simply for bodily... Body means senses. It is very difficult to the, for the western people to understand that body is not important thing; the soul is important thing. First of all, they do not know what is soul and then consideration of importance. This is their position. And if one cannot understand what is soul, what he will understand about God? Soul is a minute particle of God. If one cannot understand about this minute particle, then what he'll understand of the Supreme? In the laboratory, if you can test a little sample, just like take a little sea water, analyze, you chemically test, then you can understand what is the composition of the sea water. But if you have no knowledge even a small drop of sea water, how you'll understand the sea, what... That is their position. They do not understand even the sample of spirit soul, as we are. Simply they are trying to cover it. "There is no soul. There is no soul. Life is generated from matter." Although they cannot prove it. A fool's paradise. The fools, rascals, they are explaining the living force in some way, and other fools are accepting. This is the position of western countries, Europe and America. It is a fool's paradise. It is paradise, certainly. Very, very, big, big building and advancement, but all rascals and fools. Fool's paradise. (pause) And if you call a fool a fool, he'll be angry. Murkhayopadeso hi prakopayati na samyati (?). (pause) [break] ...so many, so much production, but if nature's law can stop this production, then the question of over-population. If the nature likes, it can produce three times, four times this production. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani [Bg. 3.27]. After all, nature is producing. We do not know how to deal with nature. Therefore there is scarcity, and we say, "over-population." There is no question of over-population. There are so many hundreds and thousands of birds within this forest, other animals. They have no problems of over-population. Eh? (pause) All these men, who are living in these villages, so what is their means of livelihood? Agriculture or industry? Or service?
Hamsaduta: I think mostly they work at some... Well, some service, yes.
Prabhupada: Factory.
Hamsaduta: Employed at some factory. But very few people actually work on the land. And we can see so much land. No one is working. 'Cause by machine, they can work so quick on the land. [break]
Prabhupada: This should be exemplary, that our community shall live in this way and save time for spiritual advancement of life. This example should be shown to the whole world, that "Here is a community. They have no problem, and they are simply interested in Krsna consciousness." This will be the idea. Is it possible?
Hamsaduta: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. "They do not do any industry. They do not kill cows. They do not go to cinema. They do not have illicit sex. They don't drink. No problems. Simply they're eating very nicely and chanting Hare Krsna." Show this example. At least, in this fool's paradise. They are thinking it is paradise. And the paradise is lost every ten years or fifteen years by the bombing. German bombs the France, and France bombs the... This is their paradise. So let them understand that "You are all fools. You are fool's paradise. This is life, what we are doing." Teach them so that the fools will understand what is life. They are manufacturing atom bomb. Russia is hiding himself.
Devotee: Now they've found out, Srila Prabhupada, that India has been, over the past few years, spending crores of rupees to develop the...
Prabhupada: Hm. And people are starving for want of. There was a cartoon that some public came to some minister: "Sir, we are starving. Give us our food." So the reply was: "Of course, that's a problem, food problem. But I can assure you that from next week you'll have television." (laughter) These rascals are like that. "Next, from next week, you'll have television, atom bomb. Never mind. Starve." (laughter) So that is also becoming fool's paradise. Jada-vidya jato mayara vaibhava. In this way, the more we increase sense, sense gratification by advancement of material..., the more we forget Krsna. And more we forget Krsna, we are more fools. (aside:) Don't come so near.
Devotee: In England and America now, more and more there is a big movement for birth control and contraceptives...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee: ...as their means to conquer over the so-called over-population problem.
Prabhupada: No, it is not over-population. They don't want to take care of children. This is their problem. It is not the question of over-population. They want to remain free and enjoy life, that's all. No responsibility. That is the hippies. That is the hippy movement.
Devotee: I have seen in all the big colleges and universities in England that I have been to, that this, amongst the students, the boys and girls, it is becoming so free. It is just like a hippy commune, the universities and colleges.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are indebted in so many ways. Therefore human being should be responsible. But the modern civilization is teaching to become irresponsible.
Hamsaduta: [break] ...there, on the sun.
Prabhupada: So suppose if your heat increases, what happens to you?
Hamsaduta: I get sick.
Prabhupada: That's all. [break] ...samudvigna, always full of anxiety. Sada samudvigna-dhiyam. Intelligence is always absorbed: "Enemy may not come. Let me discover this, discover this atom bomb. This will save me. This will save me." This is their position. Sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat [SB 7.5.5]. Why this anxiety? Because they have accepted something false as truth. Asad-grahat. They have accepted sense gratification is the truth. Indriyani parany ahuh. Indriyani means senses. Para, supreme. This is supreme. And then, if somebody is little advanced, indriyebhyah param manah. Then the mental speculators, psychologists, philosophers, another, better class of rascals... This is the third-class rascal, and they are second-class rascal. Indriyani parany ahur indriyebhyah param manah, manasas tu para buddhih [Bg. 3.42]. Then the intelligent class. They consider, "What is this nonsense? They are all suffering here." In this way, one who becomes actually intelligent, wise, then he understands, "Krsna is everything." Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. So that highest position we are giving by Krsna consciousness. We are not training them to be first-class fools, second-class fools, third-class... No. First-class intelligent. Krsna yei bhaje sei bada catura. Without being first-class, intelligent man, nobody can take to Krsna consciousness [break] ...drink everything. And why they fight? What is the cause? Suppose father gives all necessities of life to the children. Why they should fight? Simply ignorance and foolishness. That's all. Where is the cause of fighting? Just like Pandavas, to settle up their misunderstanding, Krsna said, "All right, they are ksatriyas, They cannot take up the occupation of vaisya or sudra. Give them five villages so that they'll be happy. They'll rule over, each one on the village." "No, Sir. Not a piece of land holding the tip of the needle can be spared without fighting." This is the world. The German, German war, First World War, what was the cause? The cause was that the Britishers will not allow the Germans to trade all over the world. They captured everything. And they'll purchase from Germany goods and cheat people...,
Hamsaduta: And sell...
Prabhupada: ..."Made in London," and sell it fifteen times higher than the Germans. This was their business. And that was the cause of... Is it not? Those who have studied history... This is the cause. So all this nonsense thing can be solved if we take it: "This is Krsna's property." And if you know something, you are manufac..., that's all right. You do it. I do something else. Or even if I do it, where is the cause of fighting? Because they do not know what is Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany

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Different Bodies

Germany, June 20, 1974 download  Players

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Prabhupada: ...scientists can change it? Nature. Nature. Nature should be one kind. Why there are two kinds, varieties? [break] ...migration of the soul is clearly understood or not? Explain how the transmigration takes place.Madhavananda: Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram... [Bg. 2.13].
Prabhupada: That is sloka, but you explain how it takes place.
Satsvarupa: We get a body according to our desires, and then the body only lasts so long, and when it wears out, we have to take another body, and that is determined by our actions in this body.
Prabhupada: That's all right. But how you transmigrate?
Hamsaduta: According to the mental condition at the time of leaving this body.
Prabhupada: But what is the process?
Satsvarupa: The subtle body carries the soul.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the main point. The subtle body carries the soul. Just like in dream, we are carried by the subtle body and placed in different condition. But so long this body is capable of working, I come to this body. My dream is over, and I come back to this body. And death means that this body, being useless, instead of coming to this body, I go to another body. This is transmigration. Just like when you vacate an apartment, then you do not come back in that apartment, but you enter another apartment. Is it clear?
Hamsaduta: Yes.
Prabhupada: Anybody can understand. I am coming, going, but when it is a question of vacating, I go out of the apartment, but I never come back again. I will enter another apartment. "The soul enters another body" means enters the womb of another mother. And there the suitable body is created and again mother delivers the child. Again new chapter of life begins. Where is the difficulty to understand? But they are so rascal and dull-headed, the simple thing they cannot understand. And still, they are big, big scientists, philosophers, and cheating others. They are unable to understand, themselves, and the same rascal knowledge they are distributing to others and taking Nobel Prize. This is the mudhas, the society of the cheaters and the cheated. Where is the difficulty to understand the simple thing, how the soul is transmigrating? They sometimes say that "We do not see how it is going." No, how...? Can you see the mind? But can you deny, "There is no mind?" Mind is there. Everyone knows I have got mind, you have got mind, but do I see your mind? Therefore I shall deny the existence of mind? Mind, intelligence and ego -- these three things are there, but we cannot see. How my mind is working, can you see? Or how your mind is working, can I see? And because I cannot see, therefore shall I conclude that you have no mind, I have no mind? How foolish they are. Just see. What is their explanation, Satsvarupa?
Satsvarupa: I was just thinking of a different argument of theirs.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Satsvarupa: That is that sometimes people say, "I don't mind this transmigration if I become a cat or a dog because if I forget so completely, it doesn't matter. I won't even suffer."
Prabhupada: But it doesn't matter, but if I say that "I will turn you immediately into a dog," will you agree to become?
Satsvarupa: No.
Prabhupada: Why? You'll forget.
Satsvarupa: Fearful.
Prabhupada: If I say that "I can turn you immediately to become a dog..." That is possible, but will you agree to become a dog?
Madhavananda: No.
Prabhupada: Why? You will forget. That is foolishness. "Because I shall forget, therefore I don't care for it" -- this is childish, foolish proposal. If I say, "I will turn you immediately to this grass, and you will stay here for one hundred years," will you agree to stand like that for hundred years? Hare Krsna. In the western countries actually there is no philosophy.
Madhavananda: When this is explained to them, they usually, if they are a little intelligent, can understand, but they don't want to understand.
Prabhupada: That is the difference. And therefore they are rascals. No intelligence. Intelligence is there, but it is so covered that it is almost like trees. Trees are also intelligent because it is life. There is intelligence. You will see one tree is growing. If there is wall, it will grow like this. Have you seen it?
Hamsaduta: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is intelligence. And it is proved by science. Dr. Jagadisha Candra Bose, in Calcutta, he has got institute. A machine records how a tree feeling. You cut one tree. How it is feeling pain, that is recorded in the machine.
Hamsaduta: They also hear sound. They made some experiment that when they grow plants with music, they grow more.
Prabhupada: Oh, just see.
Hamsaduta: In greenhouses. They play music. Then they become more healthy.
Prabhupada: Just see. Their sensation is very covered. Just like you cut the nails. There is no sensation. And does it mean there is no sensation-therefore there is no life? Unless there is life, how it is growing? It is growing; therefore you cut. But when you cut, there is no sensation. But there is life. Otherwise, how it is growing? The same nail, when you cut, you throw it on the ground. It will not grow. These are practical example. Just like little child. Their sensation is less. I know. My eldest daughter, when she was six months old, there was some boil. So the doctor operated. She simply, "Uh, uh," no cried. I have seen it. She was not crying. But the same boil, when a fully developed man, he will feel more sensation. So according to the body, the sensations are different. The same things, means mind, intelligence and ego, according to the body, they act differently. But the mind, intelligence and ego are there. The dog is coming, and if I say, "Hut!", unless it has got intelligence, how it goes away the other way? There is intelligence. There is no language, but because he has got intelligence, he can immediately understand I don't want him to come here. So how you can say there is no intelligence? The rascals say "The animals have no intelligence; therefore they have no soul." If one has no intelligence, there is no soul. That is admitted. But here is intelligence. How can you deny, "There is no soul"? The animals, the cows, when they are taken to the slaughterhouse, why they cry? Because he has intelligence that "Now I am going to be killed." And these rascals say there is no soul. And still, they are religious priests. Such fools and rascals are made religious fools, priests. No common sense. And they also get degree, Doctor of Divinity, DD. [break] ...Greek scholar, here in this Germany or in nearby?
Hamsaduta: I don't know Prabhupada. We have been here for too short a time to find out who is exactly here, and all the people we contacted, their program was already fixed. They could not come, but they said they would be happy to meet you if you came again.
Prabhupada: That's all right. I wanted to know the philology of the Greek word "Kristo." Or is there any dictionary? Find out the word "Kristo."
Hamsaduta: Yeah, we can see today.
Prabhupada: Greek dictionary. [break] ...France.
Hamsaduta: Germany is bordered by many countries -- Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, France, Switzerland. So we are right in the center of Germany. So Germany is in the center of Europe.
Prabhupada: [break] ...even a single stick like this in the laboratory. What do you think? You can?
Satsvarupa: No.
Prabhupada: What is scientist? Simply talking. Vikathyante. Vikathyante. This word is used in Bhagavata. When one is covered by maya, he talks so many nonsense things, vikathayante. [break]
Madhavananda: ...different living entities in different material bodies suffering.
Prabhupada: Yes. So long you have a material body, you must suffer. Just like in prisonhouse. When the criminals are put there, they are punished different way according to the criminal offense, similarly, you are, we are all criminals, and for different types of suffering we have got different types of body. Different types of body means different types of suffering. Just like this tree is punished, "Stand here for three hundred years." This is punishment. Just like we do, "Stand up on the bench!" Children. So any kind of material body, even Lord Brahma, that is suffering, different types of suffering. That's all. And if you want to be free from the suffering, then get out of this material body. This is... Krsna says that this is a place for suffering. Where does He say?
Satsvarupa: A-brahma-bhuvanal lokah: [Bg. 8.16] "From the highest planet down to the lowest, all are places of suffering where birth and death take place."
Prabhupada: Yes. (aside:) Just from distance, not so near. Duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Duhkha. Duhkha means suffering. Alayam. Alayam means place. So the creator of this universe, the Supreme Lord, He is saying, "This is a place for suffering." And it is called Mrtyu-loka, "For death, the planets for dying." That means death is unnatural to the eternal soul. But anywhere you live within this material world, you will die. That is material world. Either you live as a Brahma or live as a small insect, ant, you must die. Bhutva bhutva praliyate: [Bg. 8.19] death and again take birth, death and again take birth. But these rascals, they do not know: "This is natural, that's all." That one can stop this death and birth, they have no knowledge. And still, they are big, big scholars. They do not know that this movement is for stopping birth and death. Do they understand this?
Hamsaduta: No.
Prabhupada: They cannot believe it. They have no so brain.
Satsvarupa: They say, "Well, that's the way you think in the East. It is very interesting."
Prabhupada: And why don't you think? That means you are fool. You cannot think, just like dog cannot think. So you are equal to dog. Tell them like that. It is not the question of East and West. It is the question of understanding. In the East also there are many rascals, and in the West there are many intelligent. If it is the East and West question, how the Western boys and girls taking this philosophy? It is not the East and West. It is the question of the rascal and intelligent. One who is intelligent, either he is East and West, he can understand. And one is a rascal, either he is East and West, he cannot understand. This is the real problem. Just like this cemetery. What is the use of keeping this cemetery, occupying unnecessarily so much land? And they are worshiping. They will not go to worship Radha-Krsna, but they will worship stone, bhutejya, offer flower, kneel down. And where the man has gone, he does not know. Bhutejya. And we saw in the Geneva. A big plot of land is occupied.
Hamsaduta: Every city has two or three at least, very big, because everyone has to get such a plot.
Prabhupada: And there are many ghosts also. Yes. Especially at night, if you go, you will see. There was a ghost in the house of John Lennon. John Lennon. I was guest there. There was a ghost. [ ...binding to the maya, to just remain a slave of maya and drink this beer. [break]
Hamsaduta: They introduced this.
Prabhupada: So before that, there was no Christian?
Hamsaduta: No, before that, there was no Christian.
Prabhupada: What they were? No religion?
Hamsaduta: They were like you said. They were just tribes people.
Prabhupada: Oh. So these Germans were tribe people, uncivilized?
Hamsaduta: Yes, before Christianity, Europe was completely uncivilized.
Prabhupada: Oh. Therefore the order is "Thou shalt not kill." Simply their business was killing. Uncivilized persons, they kill animals and eat. So due to past habit they could not forget this killing business. This is the proof that this system of religion was preached among the crude people, not civilized. So why they introduced this beer?
Hamsaduta: It was a kind of refreshment.
Prabhupada: But before that, they were not drinking.
Hamsaduta: There may have been something like wine. The monks also used to make wine.
Prabhupada: Yes, they make wine. Uncivilized men, they know how to make wine. In India they do so by rice boiling and keep it for some days. It becomes wine, fermented. Hare Krsna. [break] ...used to say that "I was drinking beer in barrels." He said. Forty years ago he said me like that. Here I don't see them, but Hamburg I have seen, yes, passing urine on the roadside. There are so many urine coming from the wall. 'Cause the more you drink beer, you will pass urine more. The German language is trinken, trinking. Drinking means trinking. Yes, I have seen it. Trinking or trinken?
Hamsaduta: Trinken.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...students, they are advancing for the unflinching faith on guru and Krsna. This is the secret. [break] ...these devotees, how nice they are. They do not appreciate?
Hamsaduta: I think most of them cannot understand it, but they sympathize, I think, because the principles are (indistinct).
Prabhupada: That is appreciation.
Hamsaduta: Yes, for the principles. At least in Germany we find that although people don't understand it, they appreciate that we are following the four principles.
Prabhupada: [break] ...understood that this group is another edition of hippies. Gradually they are learning that they are not hippies. They are serious. [break] ...paper it was published that "Swami Bhaktivedanta has come in the right time." And what is that?
Satsvarupa: Yes, in a number of articles, the writer notes that Prabhupada came at a perfect time in history, and went to the right place, the lower East Side of New York, and then again in Haight Ashbury, just when the hippie movement was big but they were looking for spiritual life. That is a historical expert move that you made.
Prabhupada: No, that is very good remark, appreciated. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He is known as patita-pavana, the deliverer of the most fallen. Patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara: "My Lord, Your incarnation is for the reason to deliver all the fallen souls." So He gave one example by delivering Jagai and Madhai, but by His grace, now thousands of Jagai-Madhais are being delivered. He gave the example that here is the typical patita, fallen. So this movement will deliver this kind of people. That is His prediction. Or it... factually by this movement, so many Jagai-Madhais are being delivered. Jagai... What was their fault? The fault was they were number one woman hunter and all other good qualifications: (laughing) drunkard, meat-eaters and thieves, rogues. That is their qualification. And immediately Caitanya Mahaprabhu turned them to become Vaisnava. "Simply promise that... You say that you shall not commit anymore these sinful activities." "Yes, Sir, I will not." So that process we are going on. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany

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Theologians--Who Needs Them

Germany, June 21, 1974
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Prabhupada:  So if we are chanting the name of God, what is your objection to accept the name of the Lord?Professor Durckheim: What's the objection to?
Prabhupada: Objection to accept the name which we are chanting?
Professor Durckheim: I don't know.
Prabhupada: Was not that? What did he say?
Hamsaduta: Yes, that God had no name.
Prabhupada: God had no name, then Jesus Christ.
Hamsaduta: His point was actually that God had no name, otherwise He would be a person. But I think you missed that point.
Prabhupada: No, no, no, I stressed that if God has no name, then why Christ said that "Hallowed be Thy name"?
Professor Durckheim: Well, he explained from his theologian point of view, when Moses was asking God, "Who is Thy name?" God didn't give a name but said only, "I am who I am." And then He explained if in the prayer one says, "Blessed be thy name," they use this in order to avoid a direct name. So just only say, "The name." But I don't understand the whole thing because the word God already is... What do you want more? And I believe that in the Christian religion, everybody just says God. They think the word God is the name and nothing more needed.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. That is not very good sense, that president, president of America. People say " 'President' is sufficient." Then why "Mr. Nixon"? They are all fools? No, they say, "Mr. Nixon," sometimes they say, and sometimes, "the President." Rather, they say more "Mr. Nixon" than "the President." Why?
Professor Durckheim: Sure. But I only can say...
Prabhupada: So this argument, this argument is not very sensible argument.
Professor Durckheim: No, but that is the answer they would give. I don't believe the special name of God is for me the name, the word God. We are praying to God.
Prabhupada: No, no. No, no. Then name... When Christ says, "Hallowed by Thy name," there is name. The name is Krsna, already there. Therefore he did not require to say again. But the name is there, Krsna is there, Visnu is there, Madhava is there, Govinda is there. There are thousands and thousands of names. So you pick up any one of them. And chant it. Why do you say there is no name? Then we are chanting the name. Then what we are? We are all rascals and fools? If he says, "No, there is no name," Christ confirms there is name, and we are chanting the name. How you can say there is no name?
Professor Durckheim: Yes, quite. Well, I understand exactly what you mean very well.
Prabhupada: There is name. It is confirmed. "Hallowed be Thy name." Now, we are chanting the name. What is your objection? You chant this name.
Professor Durckheim: I have no objection.
Prabhupada: No, you... I mean to say anyone.
Professor Durckheim: Yes, quite, quite.
Prabhupada: And "Hallowed be Thy..." Those who are chanting the name of God, Krsna, just see the result, whether they are improving or not than those who have no name. Come to the practical field. These boys and girls, before my coming in the western countries, they were all so many, I do not wish to... (laughing) Now by simply chanting the name, how much improvement they have done? So why there should be any objection to chant this name? And what is the loss there? Suppose anyone chants Hare Krsna mantra. There is no loss, but the gain is practical. Why do they not, these theosophists, do not agree to chant this name, simple thing?
Professor Durckheim: I think they don't know it, and then...
Prabhupada: That is the fact. They don't know it. And still, they are theologicians. They are philosophers.
Professor Durckheim: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: They do not know anything; still, they are teachers. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that one is not qualified man, and he is teacher. He has become a teacher.
Professor Durckheim: Yes, the theology is very much a collection of hardened, petrified interpretation of original experiences. And just because they are petrified very often, today theology has nothing to say to our generation.
Prabhupada: No. I have got many disciples. They were formerly theologicians. What is the name, that boy in America?
Satsvarupa: In Arabia?
Prabhupada: No, no. There was a boy. He was theologician. Prajapati, Prajapati. Do you remember? He was theologician. Our only request is that Bible confirms there is name. Now, even though they do not know the name, here is the name, Krsna. So why people will not take this name to chant? And if by chanting the name there is practical benefit, why they should object? Why they should be so sectarian? Theologician, at least, must not be sectarian. So let the whole world chant Hare Krsna mantra. So there is no loss. If there is any gain, why not take it? And because you are writing books, therefore I am requesting you to write this, that some of the Christians, they say there is no name, but Christ says there is name, and here is the name. They are chanting, and they are getting profit. We don't want anything. We don't want any price, that I have researched the name.
Professor Durckheim: They chant the name...
Prabhupada: Krsna, Hare Krsna.
Professor Durckheim: ...in orthodox church and also very... They chant the name of Jesus. Again and again, the whole day, they say the word "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, have pity of us. Jesus, Jesus have pity of us."
Prabhupada: But Jesus said, "God, hallowed by Thy name." Jesus never said that "You chant my name." No gentleman says like that. He said, "Hallowed be God. Hallowed by Thy name." And why they are sectarian? If there is name already, why do they not chant it? And what is the harm?
Hamsaduta: There are so many places. At one point he says, "I have kept them in your name. Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain." So many references to the name.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor Durckheim: The Jews have the Jehova, Jehova name, Jehova, but they don't chant.
Prabhupada: No? They are not following.
Professor Durckheim: Jehova. How beautiful it is here.
Prabhupada: Yes, very nice. (pause) Bhagavata, Srimad-Bhagavatam is presented in such a nice way that go on reading, reading there are eighteen thousand verses, and in each verse you will find new knowledge about God, Srimad-Bhagavatam. And if you study one verse, it will take at least one month.
Professor Durckheim: Yes, I suppose so.
Prabhupada: Yes. So eighteen thousand months you have to live.
Professor Durckheim: Very good.
Prabhupada: How many years, eighteen thousand months?
Hamsaduta: About 1,300.
Prabhupada: Eighteen thousand months, divide by twelve.
Professor Durckheim: Twelve thousand months would be thousand years.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. So...
Hamsaduta: 1,500 years.
Prabhupada: What these theologicians think about God? It is already 1,500 months' substance to read. What they will discover? Teeny discovery? We have already stock for 1,500 years' understanding. So what we have to understand from them? [break] ...anadir ananta-rupam. This is only for Krsna. But Krsna has got expansions -- unlimited. Advaita, acyuta, ananta. Ananta means unlimited. God, His one feature is Krsna, and He has unlimited features. If a gentleman simply reads the Srimad-Bhagavatam quietly at home, he will be fully conversant, fully aware of what is God. Just like a scholar. He is not limited in one university or in one book. He reads various books to understand the subject matter of his research. Similarly, those who are actually serious about understanding God, they should not stick only to a particular scripture. They should read all others where the information of God is there. Just like we sometimes quote from Bible, but the Christians, they cannot quote from Bhagavad-gita or Bhagavata. They cannot do that. But they do not read. Even they do not read fully their Bible.
Professor Durckheim: No, they don't.
Prabhupada: Just see. And still, they want to be masters of understanding God. I have seen many scholars in the western countries. They are well known as Sanskrit scholar. But they cannot quote even a verse.
Professor Durckheim: I see. Well, it's a pity. Sanskrit scholars...
Prabhupada: Yes. But I understand in Germany there are many Sanskrit scholars.
Professor Durckheim: It seems so.
Prabhupada: In Germany there are many learned Sanskrit scholars. But till now I have not met any one of them.
Professor Durckheim: Well, to be a scholar in the usual sense of the word and to really go into the meaning, they are two different things. There are sometimes people who seeks to be a scholar, but in their actual knowledge, they have no insight. And that's also the case in the, with the theologian and the Bible. They know the Bible sometimes...
Prabhupada: No, that is required.
Professor Durckheim: ...but they don't enter into the meaning. They interpret it just along their small brains because they haven't got the experience.
Hamsaduta: Do you want to go this way around, Prabhupada, or just walk straight on?
Prabhupada: No, straight. Car is there?
Hamsaduta: Yeah, car is there, following us. [break]
Prabhupada: Artificially they live in the city.
Professor Durckheim: Yes, there are now millions and millions of children who never have seen a cow, never seen a horse.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor Durckheim: They go and stand at the zoo to see an animal. Yes, It's true. And I have just now in my center the visit of six Americans from Chicago who have their psychological center, and they wanted to know what we do, and they told me. They have a special little area where children are taken to see one cow, you see, or one horse just to know what it is because they never see it, never see an animal.
Prabhupada: Most unnatural life. City life, most unnatural.
Professor Durckheim: Oh, there are many children, they have never seen a tree. [break] ...sleeping only very few hours.
Prabhupada: Not very few hours. Say, four, five hours altogether. Altogether. Maximum five, minimum four.
Professor Durckheim: All the night or do you at the day sometimes?
Prabhupada: No. At night I get up at one, at half past one, sometimes half past twelve. But I take a little rest, one or two hour in the daytime. So two hours at night, two hours at day, or three hours at night, two hours in day. In this way, altogether five hours, not more than that. Our predecessor gurus, Gosvamis, they were taking rest not more than two hours or 2-1/2 hours. So we should come to that standard, yes. Nidrahara-viharakadi-vijitau **. About them this description is: they reduced their sleeping, nidra. Nidra means sleeping. And ahara. Ahara means eating and collection. Collection is also ahara. Yes. So they were mendicant. They had no collection. And they had no preaching mission. They were simply writing books. Nana-sastra-vicaranaika-nipunau, very expert to study different scriptures just to get the essence of scripture and give to the people. Lokanam hita-karinau. So their life was engaged for the benefit of the whole human society. What these people are talking philanthropy and humanitarian? They dedicated their life for... Just like we are doing. It is not for any sect or any person. For the whole human society. So that should be the mission. Lokanam hita-karinau tri-bhuvane manyau. Therefore their literature is honored all over the world, all over the universe. Just like our books. We are selling all over the world, all universities, all school, all colleges, all gentlemen. It is not sectarian. Lokanam hita-karinau tri-bhuvane manyau saranyakarau. This was their hard labor, and radha-krsna-bhajananandena mattalikau, and they were very much pleased in worshiping Radha-Krsna Deity. All the Gosvamis established a Radha-Krsna temple. In Vrndavana each and every Gosvami established one temple in the beginning. Then others followed. Rupa Gosvami established Govindaji's temple. And Jiva Gosvami established Radha-Damodara temple.
Professor Durckheim: The Radha-Krsna center in Geneva, for instance, has there any connection with you, the Swami Nityabowa-badananda? (?)
Hamsaduta: No.
Professor Durckheim: No, no connection.
Prabhupada: They are all impersonalists. The whole world is impersonalist. Perhaps we are only the personalists.
Professor Durckheim: You know that the Christian theologian, they think the main difference between them and Eastern religions altogether is that the Christian are personalists and Eastern tradition is not personalist. This is the whole...
Prabhupada: Misconception, yes. The majority of Indian population, they are personalists. Yes, majority. Either they worship God or demigod, but they are personalists. Recently the Mayavadi philosophers, they have poisoned, the impersonalism, calamity. God is person. It is... In the Veda it is said, nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). There are millions of persons. We are all persons. And God is the chief person. Just like in modern democracy, there is no monarch. But ultimately they have to select one president. Without person, there cannot be government. Why they do not remain without a president? Let it... Government, everything is government, impersonal. Why they select a president?
Professor Durckheim: Yes. One who takes lead, yes, sure.
Prabhupada: Yes. So if for a small government, three bighas of land, you require a personal governor, and such a huge government, millions and millions of universes, how the governor, the Supreme Person, supreme executive, shall not be a person? What is the reason? Actually, at the present moment, people have given up to understand the science of God. That is the defect. They are thinking everything here. Here is advertisement, "Everything here. Come on. Here is a bottle. Here is the pack (peg?). Come on." Everything here. That is the defect. And we are preaching, "Everything is not there." "Everything is lost there," we are preaching. No intoxication. And the material world is preaching, "Everything is there." This is the difference. We are preaching, "Everything is here in Krsna, in God." We have... There is a tendency here. Just see. They want to worship Deity. Even on the street side there is such thing. The tendency is to worship Deity, person. I have seen in Rome. In many small lanes, they have got this, yes. Personal worship. So the village men, they are all sleeping now?
Professor Durckheim: Yes. Most of them are sleeping.
Prabhupada: They are enjoying. Sleeping is enjoying.
Professor Durckheim: This is a very ugly village here.
Prabhupada: Why? It is very clean.
Professor Durckheim: Nothing but stone. No gardens, no flowers. Usually it is different.
Prabhupada: In other words, you mean to say that "the village for the stone-hearted."
Professor Durckheim: Yes.
Hamsaduta: The village is for the stone-hearted. Nothing but stones.
Professor Durckheim: Once when I was in Paris and walking the streets and nothing but stone and stone and iron and nothing alive, I suddenly heard a voice, coming from beneath, as if there were a big, big one. I heard the voice, if you like, of God and saying, "Well, isn't there not a little spot there where I could manifest myself?" The sadness of God. I heard the voice, "This is the sadness of God." Was very impressive to me. Really a real voice in myself. Because a town like this has no place, no channel, for His voice to come through.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor Durckheim: That was the feeling at that moment. [break] ...smell of the baked bread.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Professor Durckheim: Is it very agreeable?
Prabhupada: What can be done? We have to be accustomed because we have to go all the western countries, the boiling meat. So let us go out now.
Hamsaduta: You want to go in here, the car. (end)

 

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People Want To Banish God

Paris, June 19, 1974
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Prabhupada: At present Christian religion is made easy. Christian religion made easy. What is that? Now, first of all Christ has taken out contract that "You go on committing all sinful life. I am guaranteeing you will be saved." Is it not?Hamsaduta: Yes.
Prabhupada: Or...? What is that?
Satsvarupa: Yes.
Prabhupada: So poor Christ has taken all concern. He will be crucified, and they will enjoy life. This is very easy religion. "I have nothing to do, and besides that, if Christ says something to do, that also we can neglect because he has taken guarantee. So although Christ says, 'Thou shalt not kill,' I can neglect that." And then, if still he is captured, he will say, "Bible is very old."
Hamsaduta: How can we accept it?
Prabhupada: (laughing) How they have made easy life, that see. They are... There is a story that a boy went for examination. So when he came back, his father asked, "My dear boy, how you have written your question paper?" "Yes, very nice." "How?" "No, those questions which were very difficult, I could not answer. And the easier questions, what is to write? I know everything. (laughter) Easier questions, there is no need of writing. I know everything." Both ways he has not written anything. So these rascals, both ways they will not follow anything. And still, they will credit... Not only Christians, everywhere these people want to banish God. Simply we are canvassing "God, God, God." Otherwise nobody cares. Say about 1945, so in front of my house there was an old man. So as neighbor, we had very good talks always. So as soon as I say, "Bhagavan," he will be angry. "God." So one day he said, "Why you always say Bhagavan, God?" Just see, an old man and still he is such a rascal. He did not like. That is called demonism. Even the father of Prahlada Maharaja, that five years old boy, he was doing nothing harm, simply chanting Hare Krsna -- he became angry: "No, no." So big enemy that he wanted to kill him. This is demoniac. Some bad smell?
Hamsaduta: I don't know. [break]
Prabhupada: There was a movement, Moral Rearmament Movement, started from America.
Hamsaduta: What was the name of it?
Prabhupada: MRA, MRA, Moral Rearmament Movement. Do you know, anyone of you?
Hamsaduta: No. Do you, Satsvarupa? No.
Prabhupada: So it was going on for some years, then collapsed. The movement was started by some priest or gentleman, and it was supported by President Eisenhower. It was patronized by him. So their principle was that, Christian principle, that "You do whatever you... Simply confess. Simply confess." So that man came to India also with his party, just like I travel. [break] ...substance, no movement will stay. It may go on for some time, bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. Now, what about our movement? It will stay or it will also go like that?
Satsvarupa: It will stay. We already have another generation coming up in Gurukula. The big danger, you say, is faction.
Prabhupada: We shall go straight or right?
Hamsaduta: Right. [break] He has taken safety place, and from safety place he is killing other poor animals. That is not shooting. The ksatriyas, they will shoot tiger face to face. Previously Jaipur Maharaja, he used to go to the forest, and so he would simply fight with the tiger with a sword.
Hamsaduta: That doesn't happen anymore today.
Prabhupada: See the tiger has got its nails and teeth and jaw. So there was no firearm. He will challenge the tiger with a..., and he will take a sword and kill him. And then the tiger would be brought in procession, giving all honor, military honor.
Hamsaduta: To the tiger.
Prabhupada: That was the ksatriya's practice, how to combat his enemies. Fighting should be on the equal level, not that "I take all shelter, and you are open to be killed by enemy." [break] ...understood the process of transmigration.
Hamsaduta: Yes. [break]
Madhavananda: Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. Could it be said, then, that we are transmigrating even while in this life?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhavananda: From boyhood to youth.
Prabhupada: Yes. What is transmigration? Transmigration means the first body you lose; you enter a second body, a third body, fourth. So your childhood body is not existing. Therefore you are in different body.
Madhavananda: So that way anyone can understand.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the way of understanding. And Krsna says, the authority, that "This is the way." It is not that I have manufactured some philosophy. No. The most powerful authority, He says. So where is the position to deny it? Who can deny it, Krsna's statement? If somebody denies, then he is a rascal. That's all. Therefore we say that we have no difficulty to find out a rascal. As soon as one denies this, Krsna's statement, he is a rascal. That's it. Anyone who does not accept the transmigration of the soul, he is a rascal, that's all, immediately. So easily understood, and still they will not understand. What is the possible objection?
Satsvarupa: Well, that example can be understood, but for the materialist, he doesn't see how it applies to afterlife, one takes another body.
Prabhupada: Why, why he does not?
Satsvarupa: Because he can't perceive. He can perceive that he has changed from child to old man, but he can't perceive what is going to happen after death. So who knows?
Prabhupada: But he cannot perceive that we, at night we change this body and go to another body when we dream? He cannot perceive? Your body, this body, is laid down on the bed, and you go away, and you are thinking that you are in Europe and America or in the sky or so many things. So what is that?
Satsvarupa: Yes, while its happening he can't perceive it.
Prabhupada: But that is happening. He is seeing. He is a man. He is seeing. Why he cannot perceive? What is the difficulty? What is the answer, anyone?
Madhavananda: He is in illusion.
Prabhupada: Illusion. You are seeing an illusion? Some tiger is coming. You are crying, "Save me, save me." It is illusion. This body is also illusion. But you are affected. That means you are experiencing. How you can say that you are not perceiving? And when in dream you see your beloved or woman and man, there is no, nothing such thing, but still, there is discharge. Why? Why you are not perceiving? How you can say that you are not perceiving. It is perceiving. What is the answer? You are perceiving every night...
Satsvarupa: Yes, in dreams.
Prabhupada: ...that you leave this body, you accept another body and do something else which you see. If that is illusion, then this is also illusion. Because in daytime you forget that night activities, and at night you forget the day activities. So this is also illusion. So therefore you are in illusion. That's a fact, day and night, day and night. That is called maya. This is also maya. But they have accepted this as fact. The gross illusion they have taken as fact. This is also illusion. You are thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "German." What is that? By one kick of nature you are out, the cat and dog. This is also illusion. What is not illusion?
Hamsaduta: So there are also living beings, they accept the subtle material as illusion just as we are accepting this gross.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is going on. Therefore the problem is where is my real life? That is Krsna consciousness. When one understands, the rascal, that "This is also illusion. This is also illusion. Then where is my actual life?" that is Krsna consciousness.
Hamsaduta: I was hearing some statement about, from mediumship, of people who had died and they are living on a subtle platform, and they don't actually know that they have died. They are so absorbed that they mentally...
Prabhupada: That is all... They may think like that, but this is practical thing. Try to understand that in daytime you are illusioned by this gross body, and at night you are illusioned by the subtle body. So both of them are illusion. Therefore if you are intelligent, your inquiry should be "What is my real life?" That is intelligence, "What I am?" That is... Sanatana Gosvami placed before... "What I am?" Ke ami. That "I am simply hovering in illusion, gross and subtle. Then what is my real position? What I am?" That is real philosophy. Athato brahma jijnasa. This is called Brahman. When I am Brahman", so that is the beginning: "What I am? What is my position?" That illusion is going on. So the material life means he is in illusion for millions and millions of years. Ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kona bhagya... So out of many such millions and millions living entities, one becomes conscious, that "What is my real life?" That is awakening. Guru-krsna-prasade paya [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Then he begins his devotional life: "My real life is this."
Madhavananda: Then as soon as one begins to understand who he is, the transmigration stops.
Prabhupada: Yes. What is that understanding? His understanding is that "I am eternal servant of Krsna. So let me surrender to Krsna as He wants and serve Him." This is life. As soon as he is on this platform, then he is out of illusion. And if he is perfect, then just after giving up this body he goes to Krsna. This is the process. If he does not fall from this transcendental service of Krsna, then immediately after death he is transferred. Just like we are transferred from this gross body to subtle body, similarly, after death a devotee is transferred immediately to the Krsna, where Krsna is there, either within this material world or... They are first of all given chance to go to Krsna. In any brahmanda there is Krsna. Nitya-lila is going on. So he is born there. Then actually plays with Krsna, dance with Krsna, talks with Krsna. Apprenticeship. This is also apprenticeship here. So is there any difficulty of perception?
Satsvarupa: No.
Prabhupada: Why you said that "I have no perception?" There is perception, every day, every night. How you can say there is no perception? The perception is so strong, sometimes one dreaming some horrible position, he cannot more sleep. The sleep breaks. So why there is no perception? He is so much troubled that breaks. He immediately comes to the safe side of this gross body.
Devotee (1): Yes, takes shelter.
Prabhupada: So how do you say there is no perception? So this transmigration of soul takes place that... Just like in daytime we are in this body, nighttime we leave this body and work with the subtle body, so transmigration soul takes place -- with that subtle body he enters the womb of suitable mother, and this body is left. And there he grows again this gross body and then comes out. Is it difficult to understand? That is not illusion. That's fact. And death means that you left this gross body and the period you do not come out in another gross body, that period is called death. That period is called death.
Satsvarupa: So you are dead for about seven months.
Prabhupada: Yes, that may be, according to the body you are getting. There are 8,400,000 species of body. So according to your work you will be allowed to enter into the womb of mother. How can you check it? Where is your scientist? That is nature's law, automatically. Just like if you are infected, you get this disease. That's all. There is no need of mother nature will take personal... No, the rules are so fine that you will get automatically. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate sva-bhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. The Krsna's energies are so powerful and subtle that it takes everything takes automatically. One set up, then after that, after that, after that, after that -- everything is there. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani [Bg. 3.27]. Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gita. You have no control. You are simply under the grip of material nature. Everything, whatever you are doing, immediately it is being recorded automatically. Just like automatic printing press. You simply push the paper, and magazine comes. If you can manufacture some machine, you rascal, then how subtle machine can work on under the supervision of the Supreme?
Madhavananda: Srila Prabhupada, once you said that if we could remember our past life, we would go crazy because it is so frustrating to continue transmigrating.
Prabhupada: Even in this life we experience so much frustration. Even if we remember now, we become horrible: "Oh, I was in this state of life, I was in this state of life." Immediately shudder. "Oh, Krsna has saved me." You should be obliged that Krsna has given you shelter. You should... "Do not go again to that other platform." That is intelligence. The other day who was telling me that in Northern Pole, because there is no day, so many people commit suicide. Is it not?
Madhavananda: Sweden has the highest suicide rate.
Prabhupada: Because that is horrible condition for any intelligent man. There is no day. Why they commit suicide in Sweden?
Madhavananda: Because it is horrible condition.
Prabhupada: On account of that?
Madhavananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: Oh, just see.
Madhavananda: So I hear.
Prabhupada: So just see how Krsna's management, nature's management, there is day and night, day and night, day and night. Otherwise it is horrible. If it is all simply day, it is horrible also. And if it is simply night, that is also horrible. So He is so kind He has given day and night, day and night. So do not be misled by this illusion as others are being. Stick to Krsna to save. That is the only... Is Stockholm also like that?
Madhavananda: Yes. Who is from Stockholm? This is what I heard.
Prabhupada: Stockholm also like that?
Hamsaduta: In the winter months there is only a few hours, a few hours' sunlight. Then it goes down.
Prabhupada: Three hours.
Hamsaduta: Yeah, in the winter, it is very, very, long winter.
Devotee (2): The same thing in the summer. Some days the sun is shining all day and night.
Prabhupada: In Sweden?
Devotee (2): Yes. Midsummer night.
Prabhupada: There is no night, only day?
Madhavananda: Right.
Prabhupada: I have seen in Moscow. Practically, the night begins at half past eleven, and again morning, half past three or four. That I have seen in the month of June. Night begins at half past eleven. I have seen when the night... That is also not full night. It is not full night. So in this way, after few hours... So half past eleven to half past three, how many hours? Three hours.
Hamsaduta: Three hours, four hours.
Prabhupada: Three hours, I think. No?
Madhavananda: Four hours.
Prabhupada: Four hours. Again daytime. That I have seen.
Hamsaduta: And in the winter it is just the opposite, always dark and a few hours day.
Prabhupada: It is winter, at the same time dark. How happy life, just see. Advanced civilization. No light and winter. And still, they are happy. (laughs)
Madhavananda: Srila Prabhupada, once you said that to stop this transmigration, one has to become completely disgusted with this material world.
Prabhupada: Yes, unless..., how he can take to Krsna consciousness? If he takes as a fashion, that is another thing. Just like the man who cannot tolerate commits suicide. Therefore you told me. Yes. One who is completely disgusted with this material life, he becomes fixed up in Krsna consciousness.
Satsvarupa: What about Lord Caitanya who prayed that "I don't mind coming back again and again"?
Prabhupada: That is devotee's sincerity, that he does not go to Krsna for some material profit. Any condition, he is Krsna conscious. That is his humbleness. And a devotee, actual devotee, he doesn't want. But it happens. Otherwise how Krsna says, janma karma me divyam yo janati [Bg. 4.9]. It will take automatically. But he is not, I mean to say, very serious, that "I must go to Krsna and be saved from these material miseries." A devotee never says like that. He wants that "Never mind miseries. Let me chant Hare Krsna." That is his position.
Satsvarupa: For us, is the perfection to be absorbed in preaching to others?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: Rather than thinking "I want to go and play with Krsna"?
Prabhupada: No. Your... Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That is Caitanya. Yes.
Satsvarupa: To everyone, tell them about Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: Not thinking, "Oh, when will I go to Krsnaloka?"
Prabhupada: No, it doesn't matter. You give him good advice. Just like a canvasser. He canvasses for selling some books or some... If does not sell, he is not a culprit. He has done his job. That is recognized by Krsna. Devotee does not make any bargain with Krsna that "Krsna will give me this benefit; therefore I have become pure devotee." That is not devotee. Prahlada Maha... He is a merchant, "You give me this price. I will deliver this clothing." That is not devotion. Aslisya va pada-ratam pinastu mam marma-hatam karotu va: [Cc. Antya 20.47] "Any condition, I am your slave. Whatever You like, you can do with me." That is the sign, not that "If it is favorable to my idea, then I accept You." That is not devotion. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11], no desire. Only desire: "Please accept me as Your eternal servant again." Bhaktivinoda Thakura sings, marobi rakhobi jo iccha tohara: "Now, if You like, You can kill me; if You like, You can keep me. Whatever You like, I am prepared." Marobi rakhobi jo iccha tohara. That is surrender. [break] Similarly, if we live on the nature's way, there is no problem. The extra brain and intelligence which we have from the lower animals, we are utilizing for the same purpose, the animal life. That lady was saying, "Now we are advanced, so..." (car comes by) It is our car?
Hamsaduta: No.
Prabhupada: There is a camp. [break] We can return now. (end)

 

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Take The Name Of God From Me

June 19, 1974

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Satsvarupa:kamasya nendriya-pritir
labho jiveta yavata
jivasya tattva-jijnasa
nartho yas ceha karmabhih
 [SB 1.2.10]
"Translation: Life's desires should never be aimed at gratifying the senses. One should desire to live only because human life enables one to inquire about the Absolute Truth. This should be the goal of all works." (German)
Prabhupada: Te, what is that? Jivasya tattva-jijnasa, inquiring about the Absolute Truth, that is the only business of human being.
Professor Durckheim: Now may I put a question? Just I think there is one way to reconcile. This was given just now as a Christian view or of the other side, as far as the body is concerned, because I think there are three consciousness, conscience of body. The one looks only at health, the second one only of beauty, but the third one we are never talking about has to look to transparence of our body consciousness, to become transparent in a way that in our body and through our body we might look for the Absolute Truth.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Professor Durckheim: That this goes together. (German)
Prabhupada: Yes. So the thing is that if my life is based on false conception that "I am this body," so the bodily appreciation of beauty or any other thing, that is also false. That is also false. If I am not this body, then anything conceived in relation with this body, that is false. (German)
Vedavyasa: He says that usually we see the body in connection with beauty or health. But there is another possibility, to use the body as a transparent medium to conceive the Absolute Truth.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is explained here. Jivasya tattva-jijnasa. That means with this body you should not waste your time like the birds and beasts but utilize it for inquiring about the Absolute Truth. That is reality. (German)
Dr. P. J. Saher: Not only to the Absolute Truth, but to communicate together. Think of the smiling of a child, its first communication between man. It's not only the body as instrument for the eternal truth but under, among us.
Prabhupada: So that you have to learn, how with this body you can utilize your energy to understand the Absolute Truth and reestablish your relationship with the Absolute Truth. (German)
Vedavyasa: He says it's a waste of our energy if we try to do good for others, if we smile and be kind...
Prabhupada: But you cannot do good to others because you do not know what is good. (German)
Prabhupada: You are thinking of good in terms of your body, but body is false. Therefore the conception of goodness is also false. (German)
Dr. P. J. Saher: I cannot accept that the body is false.
Prabhupada: No, no. I withdraw that word false. But it is not you. It is false in this sense, that you are accepting this body yourself, but that you are not. (German) Just like...
Dr. P. J. Saher: But I live my identity with the body.
Prabhupada: With the body. But the body is false, false in this sense, that you are not this body. You are simply... Just like I am occupying this apartment, but I am not this apartment. I am different from this apartment. This is understanding. So if you take interest of the apartment and you forget yourself, that is false. (German) If I simply decorate this body, apartment, and I don't eat myself, then what is the... This is false attempt, that we are trying... This is called. In the Bhagavata it is said that apranasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-ranjanam. Now, this body, just you or I, everyone, we are nicely dressed. But if the life is gone from the body, if you dress the body, is that very good intelligence? You have understood? That I am dressing, so long my life is there, I am dressing very nicely this body, but when the body is dead, if you dress the body or somebody or your relative dresses nicely, it is very good intelligence? (German) [break]
Vedavyasa: ...example of this comparison with a room and the body is not very good because he says...
Prabhupada: But because he does not know that he is not this body.
Vedavyasa: Yes, but he says because if we go out of the room, the room remains as it is, but if we go out of the body, the body doesn't remain. So he says there must be an intimate connection between the soul and the body.
Prabhupada: No, remains means in the same way. Just like if I leave this room and it remains here, in a few years time it will be destroyed. Similarly, if you leave this body, in a few hours... It is a question of hours and years. (German) [break]
Vedavyasa: ...saying that this body is, the soul is eminent.
Prabhupada: The soul is different from the body.
Vedavyasa: Yes, but at the same time, he says there must be a very intimate connection of, actually a oneness of body and soul. That is what is now.
Prabhupada: No, no.
Dr. P. J. Saher: As long as we are alive.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is not oneness. Just like this room is important so long I am living. Otherwise it has no importance. (German) [break] ...soul is gone from the body, even the body is very dear, I throw it away. (German)
Vedavyasa: He doesn't want to separate.
Prabhupada: But you must separate. (laughter) As soon as your death comes, your body will be kicked out by your relatives.
Professor Durckheim: I think the difference is now just one, that Sir Fox (?) spoke about our lifetime, that during our lifetime there is an intimate unity between life and soul, as we experience it, and he now has no doubt that the soul is something different of the body, and when soul goes out, there is no life anymore.
Prof. Pater Porsch (Indian man): May I please add one thing. Perhaps it makes a difference if the person thinks "I am the spirit. I have a body." or he thinks, "I am a body, and I possess a soul." That is an important point.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. That is his mistake, that he is body and he possesses soul. But not that. He is soul; he is covered by this body. Another example. Just like your coat. So long you use it, it is important. And if you don't use it, it has no importance. But if he takes coat is very important... Important, it is important, so long you use it. But if you don't use it -- it is torn -- you throw it away. You take another coat. (German)
Prof. Pater Porsch: Can we not also say that self and not self must separate, either in death involuntarily, or through destiny.
Prabhupada: Must separate, must separate.
Prof. Pater Porsch: Either through death or destiny.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is called death. You separate from this body; you accept another body. This period is called death. (German) So the body which you occupied previously, that is false now. Now the body which you have occupied now, that is important now. So you are giving stress on the body which I am changing after few years. That is the problem, misunderstanding.
Professor Durckheim: I think it would be important for us all to know what you would say to the question, "How to realize the last truth, and what do you mean by realize the eternal truth?"
Dr. P. J. Saher: (German) [break]
Vedavyasa: He said that in the Bible it is said that our aim should be to know the father.
Dr. P. J. Saher: Not only the aim but the life consists in this, to know the father, God, by this... (indistinct)
Professor Durckheim: That is exactly what you say, that real life, real eternal life, means nothing but to recognize the father in the son.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is real business. And we have created so many unnecessary, superfluous business. We have set aside the real business, to know the father. And that is the mistake of this civilization. (German) [break]
Hamsaduta: Professor Durckheim's question was: "Very simply, what is our way or what is our method to realize the highest truth, the absolute truth?" What is our process?
Prabhupada: The simplest method is to associate with the Father, or the Absolute Truth. By association. This association can be possible. God, His name, His form, His pastimes, His abode, His paraphernalia, everything is God, because absolute. First of all you should understand this Absolute Truth. Just like here in the relative world the name of a person is different from the person. But in the absolute world the name and the person the same. So we are teaching or preaching this, that you chant the holy name of God, you associate immediately with God. And if you associate immediately with God then gradually you become Godly. The example is, just like you put one iron rod in the fire it becomes warm, warmer, warmer and, at last, red-hot. When it is red-hot, it is no longer iron rod, it is fire. Similarly, if you simply associate with God then gradually you become Godly or or all the qualities of God. Then you understand God and your life becomes perfect. (German) [break]
Professor Durckheim: ...holy name of Krsna.
Prabhupada: Holy name of God.
Professor Durckheim: Of God.
Prabhupada: If you don't like to chant Krsna you chant in your own way. Chant the name of God. If you know the name of God chant it. If you do not know then take it from me. (laughter) We are recommending to chant the holy name of God. If you know, you chant that name and if you don't know then take it from me. (German) [break] ...explained by Caitanya Mahaprabhu that God has many thousands of names or God has no name. No name means He has, He has got so many thousands of millions of names that you cannot say, "This is only God's name." This is one sense. But how God names are understood? The God names are understood by His action. Just like we say Krsna. Krsna means all-attractive. God is all-attractive. God is attractive for the Hindus, for the Muslim, for the Christians, for everyone. Therefore, being all-attractive, there's a Sanskrit word of all-attraction, Krsna. This is the explanation of the attribute of God. Similarly, if you've got similar name which explains the attributes of God, that is also God's name. (German) I think Lord Jesus Christ said "God, hallowed be Thy name."
Satsvarupa: The Lord's Prayer: "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be They name."
Prabhupada: So He has name. You find out what is His name and chant it. And if you do not know, then take it from us. That is all. He has name. He has name. He's not without name. (German) [break]
Vedavyasa: He says from the Old Testament that Jesus said, "Hallowed be Thy name," so he didn't say a particular name because, he says, God has actually no name because if we...
Prabhupada: So how He can be no name? He says, "Hallowed be Thy name." He has name. Therefore he says like that.
Vedavyasa: But there's no name in the Bible...
Prabhupada: That doesn't mean... He might not have mentioned or you have not noted. But when he says, "Hallowed be Thy name," there must be the name. Therefore I said if you don't know the name, you take it from us. That is intelligence. Why should you say that there is no name. He says the "Hallowed be Thy name." There must be name but you do not know. (German) [break]
Vedavyasa: He thinks that it's purposely done not to say the name of God, to...
Prabhupada: Because there is name, you find out.
Vedavyasa: He said that when it says, "Hallowed be Thy name," it's meant in this way: that there's no mention of a particular name to be respected...
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. So that we say that God has no particular name. But according to His action His name is there. Just like Krsna. Krsna is not the name. Krsna means all-attractiveness.
Professor Durckheim: Just as Buddha is not a name.
Prabhupada: Hm. Because He's man of knowledge, therefore He's called Buddha.
Dr. P. J. Saher: The one who has reached...
Prabhupada: Buddha. Buddha means one who has perfect knowledge.
Professor Durckheim: Buddha is not a name of somebody, yes.
Prabhupada: Just like you say, "Hallowed be Thy name." President. President. Now the president has a name but you do not know. But the president must have a name. (German)
Dr. P. J. Saher: Has the name a special esoteric meaning? And is the technique of chanting the name, has this a special hidden purpose that the unenlightened...
Prabhupada: No, not hidden but open because Absolute is not different from His name. Therefore when you chant the name of the Absolute that means you associate with the Absolute. And as soon as you associate with the Absolute you become purified.
Dr. P. J. Saher: Like iron in fire.
Prabhupada: Yes, that's right. (German) [break] ...Vedic injunction:
harer nama harer nama harer nama eva kevalam
kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha
 [Cc. Adi 17.21]
For your perfection you simply chant the name of the Lord harer nama, harer. Harer means of the Lord and nama means name. Thrice. Just like we give stress three times, "You do it. You do it. You do it." This is a good stress. Similarly, the sastra says harer nama harer nama harer nama, nama eva kevalam, simply chant the Lord's name. Kalau, in this age of Kali. Nasty eva, nasty eva, nasty eva gatir anyatha. There is no other alternative for self-realization, no other alternative for self-realization, therefore stress should be given for everyone to chant the holy name of the Lord. (German) Kali means the age of quarrel, the age of quarrel. This age is simply for fighting and quarrel. They're not interested to understand the Absolute Truth. But they're interested in fighting and quarreling. Therefore this age called Kali. Kali means fighting. (German)
Dr. P. J. Saher: Will you please be so kind as to further elucidate your technique of that one chants the name of God and will you please be so kind as to elucidate further in some particular way or what comes (German) what should be done in relation to that or how it is, how it is formulated in that, in that total, in that complete system of your reverent teachings?
Prabhupada: Yes. This is the bhakti-marga, means, the first thing is sravanam, hearing. Just like these books are being written to give chance people to hear. That is first business. If we don't hear about God we simply imagine something. No. We must hear about God. We are publishing eighty books like this, simply to hear about God. Then when you hear perfectly then you can describe to others. That is called kirtanam. Sravanam, kirtanam. And when the process goes on hearing and chanting or describing, kirtanam means describing. Just like our, this whole society is hearing from these books and they're going out to describe. This is called kirtana. Then by these two process, hearing and chanting, you remember, smaranam. That means remembering, you always associate with God.
Dr. P. J. Saher: So at all times, "Remember Me."
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. Then worshiping the Deity, to offer flowers to the lotus feet of the Lord, to garland, to dress, pada-sevanam, arcanam vandanam, offer prayer, dasyam, serve. In this way, there are nine different processes.
Dr. P. J. Saher: We have a similar thing in the Christian (German).
Prabhupada: Yes. Christian method, the offering prayer. That is bhakti, that is bhakti. (German) [break] Kali-yuga means fight. Nobody is interested to understand the truth but they'll simply fight, "In my opinion, this." I say, "My opinion, this." You say, "His opinion." So many foolish opinions and fight within themselves. This is the age. No standard opinion. Everyone has got his own opinion. Therefore there must be fighting. Everyone says, "I think like this." So what is your value, your thinking like that? That is Kali-yuga. Because you have no standard knowledge. If a child says the father, "In my opinion, you should do like this." Is that opinion to be taken? If he does not know the thing, how he can give his opinion? But here, in this age, everyone is prepared with his own opinion. Therefore it is fight, quarrel. Just like the United Nation, all the big men go there to become united, but they're increasing flags. That's all. Fighting, it is a society of fighting only. The Pakistan, the Hindustan, the American, the Vietnam. It was meant for unity but it is rendered into fighting association. That's all. Everything. Because everyone is imperfect, anyone should give his perfect knowledge.
Dr. P. J. Saher: Do you mean the Kali-yuga exists all the time?
Prabhupada: No. This is the period when foolish men have developed so many. Instead of making solution the fighting increasing. Because they have no standard knowledge. Therefore this Brahma-sutra says that you should be eager to inquire about the Absolute Truth. Athato brahma jijnasa. Now the answer, next quote, is that Brahman, or the Absolute Truth is that from which, or from Whom, everything has come. Athato brahma jijnasa, janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. Now you find out where is the... Everyone is trying to find out what is the ultimate cause. That should be the aim. That if you follow these philosophical quotes then your fighting will stop. You'll be sober. This verse also athato jijnasa. Athato jijnasa means to inquire about the Absolute Truth. Sit down, because there should be a class of men, very intelligent class of men in the society who are discussing about the Absolute Truth and they will inform others, "This is Absolute Truth, my dear friends, my dear..." Should do it like this. That is one thing. But here everyone is absolute truth. That is fighting. (German) [break]
Vedavyasa: ...was the always the desire of mankind to find (indistinct) he says the kings should be wise and the wise men should be kings.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Vedavyasa: So he said that this was always the desire but...
Prabhupada: But thing is that this desire is there everywhere. But whose desire is standard? That should be understood. Everyone is desiring. But whose desire is to be followed? What is the actual, factual desire? That is to be understood. Unless you do not know what is the standard of desire, then this fighting will go on. You desire, I desire... (German) [break]
Vedavyasa: ...saying that knowledge is important also...
Prabhupada: No, no.
Knowledge, that is described. Knowledge is according to the quality of the person. If the man is a debauch, what is the value of his knowledge? We cannot take up the knowledge that's given by a debauch. The perfect human being is described. Samo damas titiksa, arjava. Find out.
Satsvarupa: Yes. (German)
Vedavyasa: She says that we cannot have heaven on earth.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Vedavyasa: We cannot have heaven on earth simply by our desiring it.
Prabhupada: No. Just like there are intelligent class of men, they sit together. They do not fight. Still you can men... because the example is there. But that requires qualification. Therefore what is that qualification?
Satsvarupa:
samo damas tapah saucam
ksantir arjavam eva ca
jnanam vijnanam astikyam
brahma-karma svabhava-jam
 [Bg. 18.42]
"Translation: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, calmness, honesty, wisdom, knowledge and religiousness. These are the qualities by which the brahmanas work."
Prabhupada: That is the qualities of the highest intelligent class of men. So if you do not find such qualities, how his knowledge should be perfect? These are the qualities. (German)
Vedavyasa: He doubts that everyone is convinced about that.
Prabhupada: Eh? Eh?
Vedavyasa: He's doubting if we should convince them of that.
Prabhupada: Well, who is not self-controlled, he'll not be convinced because he'll think that he's rebellious, "I can do anything what I like. I can eat whatever I like." Now how he will like this idea of self-control?
Professor Durckheim: But one question, you see. These virtues have been always asked for by Christian churches also, exactly the same. But then today we realize that the virtues are on one level with the vices. But there's something different. If you pass through the (indistinct) step you get somewhere, you see where we can understand, for instance, if Christ says "Let the dead bury their dead." A phrase like this appeals to a different level. So I think as long as you...
Prabhupada: No. It is not different level. The advice is given according to the time, person. So if people follow Lord Christ and, I mean to say, instruction that is also perfect. But they do not follow.
Professor Durckheim: They do not...
Prabhupada: They do not follow.
Professor Durckheim: Sure...
Prabhupada: That's it. Otherwise either you follow Bhagavad-gita or Bible as they are, then you become gradually perfect. The difficulty is they do not follow. And still they're claiming "I am Christian." "I am Hindu." "I am this." "I am that." Rubber stamp. No qualification but rubber stamp. This is the defect. (German) [break]
Vedavyasa: ...qualifications on the material platform.
Prabhupada: First of all acquire this material qualification. Then talk of spiritual. (German) Just like I think in the university if one wants to learn about law he must be graduate first of all.
Dr. P. J. Saher: In India. Yes.
Prabhupada: So you, first of all become graduate then talk of law books. Similarly, you first of all become a brahmana. Then you understand about Brahman, Absolute Truth. Without becoming brahmana how you can understand? (German) [break]
Satsvarupa: (reading from Bhagavad-gita) "...three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me, and although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer, being unchangeable." (German) [break]
Professor Durckheim: Your message, I think, will be very much appreciated by the youth of today in the western part of the world who says to the adults, "You have educated us to go to maintain our position in the world, to do something useful for the community and to behave nicely. But you never, but you never asked us who we are and who we should become (indistinct)." This is the problem.
Prabhupada: That is the beginning of our talk, that you are spirit soul.
Professor Durckheim: I beg your pardon.
Prabhupada: You are spirit soul, not this body. That is the beginning of our talk. (German)
Vedavyasa: He said that your answer that we are not this body, that we are spirit soul, it is not our real answer to our actual problem.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Vedavyasa: He said that if you said that we are fleeing, fleeing from the actual problems which we have now...
Prabhupada: Actual program, the actual program is there. (German) [break]
Vedavyasa: :He's speaking of the gradual process of self-realization. First of all...
Prabhupada: Hm?
Vedavyasa: We are speaking of the gradual process of self-realization, first adopting these brahminical qualities and going further and further. So he asks if he's missing, if it's not possible to become illuminated at once by God's grace, to become converted without undergoing these...
Prabhupada: Chant Hare Krsna. That will do. Yes, you haven't got to undergo this or that. Simply chant and it will..., you'll become perfect. So easiest. But still they will not accept. That is the difficulty. When you give the easiest way they won't accept. Easiest way is we are recommending the chant the holy name of God. Do it. (German) Not that you chant the name of Krsna. You have got your name of God, you chant that. Begin that. (German) [break] Then how can I help you? There is (indistinct). You do not know. So our recommendation is, not my recommendation, from the Vedic literature, authoritative recommendation and the Bhagavad-gita, satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drdha-vratah [Bg. 9.14]. Everything is there. You begin. Therefore I said in this age so many things is impossible to be done. But you begin chanting the holy name of God. Where is the difficulty?
Dr. P. J. Saher: To know the name, because I...
Prabhupada: To know. Why you are doubtful? There is name. If you do not know take it from us. (chuckling) Why you deny that?
Dr. P. J. Saher: There's thousands and millions of...
Prabhupada: That's all right. Here is one name. Why don't you take it?
Dr. P. J. Saher: No. I say millions of names. I'm looking for the name and...
Prabhupada: :Yes. But if I've given you the name why don't you take it?
Dr. P. J. Saher: Because I'm not convinced that is the right name.
Prabhupada: That is your misfortune. (everyone laughs) That is your misfortune. Yes. (German) How can I help? (German) You do not know the name, if somebody is informing you, "Here is the name," he still will not take. That is your misfortune. What can be done? A misfortunate man cannot be helped. That's right. So here is the authority. Satatam kirtayanto mam.
Satsvarupa:
satatam kirtayanto mam
yatantas ca drdha-vratah
namasyantas ca mam bhaktya
nitya-yukta upasate
 [Bg. 9.14]
"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship me with devotion." (German) [break]
Dr. P. J. Saher: ...and when I was in Africa I saw the people are looking for the name and chanting like you chant. But they have a complete different idea of thought. My question is how can I know what is the right thing? From where do you know this?
Prabhupada: But, as a human being you can study what you have seen in Africa and where you are seeing here. There's much difference.
Dr. P. J. Saher: I mean, my question only I saw singing the people...
Prabhupada: No, just like these boys and girls, they are coming from Jewish group or Christian group. They have not come from India. Now how they're chanting and enjoying you can see.
Dr. P. J. Saher: No, I mean the intention was the same. They're looking for (indistinct)
Prabhupada: (indistinct) ...you have to see the resultant study.
Dr. P. J. Saher: I was quite surprised.
Prabhupada: Yes. And ask them to induce to chant any other name. They'll not do that. Phalena pariciyate, you have to study by the result of the activity, not theoretical. (German)
Dr. P. J. Saher: Yes. That would be the criterion for me.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. P. J. Saher: Yes, that's the same what the Christian criterion when St. Paul speaks. They had the same...
Prabhupada: No. We say that you follow Christian principle, you become perfect. But the difficulty is nobody follows anything. He follows his own opinion. That's all. "In my opinion." What you are, your opinion? That is the difficulty. Yes you can take.
Vedavyasa: Srila Prabhupada, in the Bible there are a lot of statements regarding chanting, instructions that people should chant the holy name of God. Like in the Old Testament it says from the morning to evening you should chant the holy name of God.
Prabhupada;: Yes. That is the business in this age. Chant the holy name of God.
Professor Durckheim: Whatever you do, do in the name of Jesus Christ, the Bible...
Prabhupada: That's all right. You take this in the name of Jesus Christ.
Hamsaduta: Prabhupada, would you like to take your prasadam now?
Prabhupada: Not now. Later. The simplest method-chant the holy name of the Lord. That's all.
Prof. Pater Porsch: Should this chanting be loud? Or can it also be half loud, whisper or silently, mentally? Does it play any difference? Does it make any difference?
Prabhupada: If you chant loudly then others can hear. They also take benefit.
Vedavyasa: Should we translate?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Vedavyasa: Should we translate?
Prabhupada: Yes. (German) Even the birds and beasts they will hear and be benefited. (German) Therefore loud chanting is recommended. So that even the birds, beasts, trees, plants, they can hear. (German)
Prof. Pater Porsch: I seldom saw so many happy faces as today, this evening, below.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the case. In America also the ladies and gentlemen ask them, "Are you Americans?" Because they do not see Americans with such nice face. One Christian priest -- I was going from Los Angeles to Hawaii -- so he came to talk with me. He inquired "Swamiji, how is that your disciples look so bright?" He inquired. Yes.
Prof. Pater Porsch: Without drugs.
Prabhupada: Yes. And one Christian priest he showed one pamphlet that these boys, they're our boys but before this they're not coming to the church. They do not want to ask anything about God. Now they're mad after God. How is it? He admitted, "They're our men." And I give you another example. In our Los Angeles temple -- this was a church, big church -- but it was not going on. It was being closed. And it was sold to us. And now you go and see there is daily thousands of... the same men, the same place. The crowd is so... Why? I have not brought all these men from India. Judge. Unless it is something sublime, how they're accepting it? And they're all young boys. Not that they have become old, therefore they're seeking after God. (everyone laughs) And young men have got so many aspirations, they go to the restaurant to smoke, to enjoy girlfriend, boyfriend, these... They have given up everything.
Professor Durckheim: And they are working in the society, they are working...
Prabhupada: We are working, we are writing these books and selling them. That's all. This is our work.
Professor Durckheim: I see.
Prabhupada: We have no other... Even in the Indian Parliament, the question was raised that "How is that this international society is spending lavishly? What is their income?" There is a rumor that Americans are sending these CIA, what is this? (everyone laughs) Rascal people, they think the CIA has come to dance and chant Hare Krsna. (everyone laughs) So, of course the reply was given that we have no information that these people are CIA but we know that they are maintaining themselves by selling their literature and public contribution. That's all. And we have got 102 centers like this. This is not very... If you go to our Los Angeles center, New York center and other, Vrndavana center and Navadvipa center, not less than 200 men are there always. And we are providing with their food, shelter. We give education to their children. We are getting them married. We don't allow these boys to live as friends. No. "You get yourself married." Yes. (German) Here is a girl, Kausalya. I picked her from Hawaii. Now you can ask what she was and what she is now. Now she's married. She's happy. She has everything here. Life is there. (pause) Hare Krsna. So I think you are all learned gentlemen, you should give us support and cooperate with this movement. It is very nice movement. That is my request to you. (German)
Satsvarupa: May we take your leave, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: No. You sit down. I do not... I can talk all night. (devotees laugh) Because it is Krsna's talk that is your (indistinct) already. Satatam kirtayanto mam [Bg. 9.14]. Why do you stop? Satatam. Go on. Continuous. What is that? Satatam means?
Satsvarupa: Always?
Prabhupada: Satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drdha-vratah, namasyantas ca mam... [Bg. 9.14].
Prof. Pater Porsch: In what way can he support, or cooperate with your movement? In what way can he offer optimal benefit to your movement?
Prabhupada: That is a simple thing. You chant Hare Krsna. That's all.
Prof. Pater Porsch: No. I mean in a further, in an extended way. For example...
Hamsaduta: Yes. We have got a life membership program which can be (indistinct) can participate in that way.
Prabhupada: You can become a life member and read all these books and chant Hare Krsna. There is no loss. Suppose you chant Hare Krsna there is no material loss on your part, but if there is any gain, why don't you take it?
Prof. Pater Porsch: No, my question was perhaps a little, not quite clear. Many of us here, myself felt, represent not only our personal selves but are here on behalf of certain institutions and we are active in some form or other of public service, these gentlemen probably also. And in what way, for example, would we serve your movement by giving a clear explanation about the aims of your activity, for example, removing prejudices and supporting Sanskrit studies and the better distribution of the Bhagavad-gita in this form, in such ways, perhaps?
Prabhupada: Yes. We are writing these books for distribution.
Prof. Pater Porsch: Yes. Yes. Yes, I've already suggested that one.
Prabhupada: Yes. And they are not manufactured knowledge. They are standard knowledge, Vedic knowledge, I am explaining for understanding of the people in general. Each word is being explained. Here is my dictaphone. I am sitting here. So as soon as I stop talking, I shall write immediately. At night also, I get up at two o'clock, one o'clock, and write these books.
Hamsaduta: Prabhupada came to United States in 1965, and this movement was started in 1966, '67, and since that time, he has published about twenty books like this, including Bhagavad-gita, Caitanya-caritamrta.
Prabhupada: And what is the number of books sold last year?
Satsvarupa: Four million.
Prabhupada: Four million copies.
Prof. Pater Porsch: May I please put a question before I forget. I heard from our, or I read in the invitation that this center is not only a center as such but something more. It should also be an asrama and also a forest university in the tradition of the ancient times.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prof. Pater Porsch: A kind of a university also.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Yes.
Prof. Pater Porsch: Like Indian and allied sciences, Vedic sciences.
Prabhupada: My idea is that all our centers should be self-supported. We do not like that idea that for your support you have to go 100 miles to get your bread. That is a very dangerous drawback. You produce your food locally and then support yourself. The main problem is what to eat, where to sleep. So we get some place and support ourself by producing our own food. We have already begun in New Vrindaban, New..., West Virginia, Virginia, and similarly in other centers, we are producing our food, grains, vegetables, fruits and milk. That is sufficient. But we don't kill any animals. That we don't do.
Prof. Pater Porsch: But will this center also be a place of learning for Sanskrit studies and allied topics?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. We are educating our children in Dallas. We have got very good institution, Sanskrit and English, and they are reading these books. That is sufficient. If they read these books, all different department of knowledge will be acquired. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijnate sarvam idam vijnatam bhavati. Yes. You can play a little record. Last night...
Hamsaduta: This morning's recording?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prof. Pater Porsch: May I please ask, are there is also room for physical yoga exercises while chanting of the God's names?
Prabhupada: Yes, but we are exercising by dancing.
Prof. Pater Porsch: Yes, of course. (tape of Prabhupada singing is played)
Prabhupada: Make little louder. (tape plays for about five minutes of Prabhupada singing prayers to the six Gosvamis) What are these pictures?
Hamsaduta: These are pictures of our society's activities in the temples.
Prof. Pater Porsch: Very constructive and very... So much success in a relative very short time, if you began in 1966.
Prabhupada: '67.
Prof. Pater Porsch: And during the Bangladesh crisis you also...
Prabhupada: Yes, anyone came; we feed. That much... There were many refugees, so we fed them.
Prof. Pater Porsch: But that automatically answers the question of this gentlemen also, the body in the service of other people, you see...
Prabhupada: No, we give food. Anyone come and take food. Here also. There is no question of Bangladesh. Let anyone come and take food. In our Mayapura center we especially give food distribution on Saturday and Sunday. At least five thousand people come. So all humanitarian work is included.
Lady: Thank you very much.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Thank you. (some guests leave) So now we have come to Germany. You cooperate and make it a great success for the general benefit of the whole humanity. We have got arts, music, literature, culture, food, everything.
Prof. Pater Porsch: I think it will also help to quite a considerable extent for the removing of prejudices and for a better understanding of...
Prabhupada: No, this is the only platform where all people, all religion, all culture, can unite. This is the only place, Krsna consciousness. We practically see how they are becoming successful. In Africa also, within the villages they are responding. [break] ...distinction.
Devotee: (showing Srila Prabhupada's books) This is Spanish, Chinese.
Prof. Pater Porsch: (indistinct) Chinese.
Prabhupada: Japanese also. And Hindi.
Devotee: Italian, French. Hindi also we have. Bengali, Gujarati.
Prof. Pater Porsch: But I also noticed on the faces of the devotees downstairs that many or several faces were, we would say in the West, sublimated, that the facial features showed that a certain form of sublimation had taken place. (German)
Prabhupada: Even children are learning how to dance, how to offer obeisances, how to chant, how to clap. They are also learning, small children.
Prof. Pater Porsch: And I think that it comes at the right time so that people may not be misled into juvenile delinquency, all of those "easy riders" and motorcycles and adolescent criminality. They find creative outlets for their energies also as a by-product.
Prabhupada: No. We are teaching... Of course, we do not defy this modern advance of material civil... We don't say that. But this is our main business, that is, jivasya tattva-jijnasa, to inquire about the Absolute Truth.
Prof. Pater Porsch: So can you not say that this knowledge is an atma-vidya, that we are trying to come to the knowledge of the atman.
Prabhupada: Atmine?
Prof. Pater Porsch: Atma, self.
Prabhupada: Oh, atma, yes. Tattva-jijnasa means atma-jijnasa.
Prof. Pater Porsch: That is why it is also correct to translate the term krsna-arjuna-samvara (?) as a kind of metaphysical knowledge, philosophical knowledge.
Prabhupada: (aside:) No, not now. No, not now. No, whole knowledge. Metaphysical, physical, everything is there.
Prof. Pater Porsch: In the Gita it also, a verse, that "Four kinds of persons seek Me..."
Prabhupada: Ah, yes. Catur-vidha bhajante mam.
Prof. Pater Porsch: "The man who seeks knowledge."
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, catur-vidha. And similarly, there are four kinds of rascals. Catur-vidha. No. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. Everything is there.
Prof. Pater Porsch: But, perhaps, that could be also a question, that Graf Durckheim has in mind, I think, perhaps, when he asked the question about belief, etc. Perhaps he also thinks that we are living in a period of, where, because of the technological construction of society, rational knowledge is appreciated and, for example, ten years ago non-rational knowledge in Germany, actually, or in Europe was highly suspected. We had lived through a period of positivism, and people in our universities even wanted to abolish the word consciousness. They even wanted to abolish the word psychology on the basis, on the presumption that there is no such thing as a (German).
Professor Durckheim: But this time is over.
Prof. Pater Porsch: Yes.
Professor Durckheim: The modern times are not modern anymore.
Professor Durckheim: I agree with you but just think how the world was only a few years ago.
Professor Durckheim: Yes. And especially if you talk about the rational (German), the really German tradition is the irrational. So now this is coming back now, rediscovering their own past slowly.
Prabhupada: So long they do not come to the standard platform, they will accept this sometimes and that sometimes. This will go on, changing.
Prof. Pater Porsch: No, but I meant it differently. Can it not be that average man in the street... I don't mean... Yes, it was, of course, in Germany. Man in the street now is infected from the...
Professor Durckheim: Absolutely, yes.
Prof. Pater Porsch: And he thinks that in order to give a rational presentment, (German) [break]
Professor Durckheim: ...I realize that the closer members engaged, really, in this work of distributing books and chanting, wearing the white robes and shaving the heads, they are the closer participants I suppose. And then have you also members of your movement which are simply in their work, in the community, in the world? Or is...
Prabhupada: No, we invite everyone.
Professor Durckheim: You invite. But as far as members are concerned, to become a member of your movement...
Hamsaduta: Yes, we have people in all walks of life. For example, we have the (German). He is a life member. And all people...
Professor Durckheim: He's simply a member?
Hamsaduta: Yes. He is a member, he supports the movement, he follows the principles himself, he appreciates the philosophy, but he has his responsibility in the society. He acts as a member of the society and he is a member. But his lifestyle is Krsna consciousness. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany

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