"The First Lesson--Not This Body"

"The First Lesson--Not This Body"

73/04/11 Los Angeles, Bhagavad-gita 2.13


Prabhupada:

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

So this is a statement by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, bhagavan uvaca, that you are not this body. The first instruction for spiritual understanding is to know that I am not this body. This is the beginning. The so-called yogis, they are exercising the body, studying the psychology of the mind by charts, by so many humbugs. But our philosophy (is) that we are not this body. Then where is the question of exercising the body and spiritual realization? If I am not this body, then how I can realize myself simply by some gymnastic process? So this is the mistake -- the karmis, jnanis and the yogis. The karmis, fruitive workers, materialistic persons, they want bodily comforts. Their only idea is how to get the best comfort of this body. This body means the senses. We have got eyes, ears, nose, mouth, tongue, hands, genital -- so many senses we have got.

So as soon as we are in the bodily concept of life, immediately the necessity is for sense gratification. But Krsna says to Arjuna that "You are not this body." So therefore my self-interest does not depend on my bodily comforts. They do not know this. Everyone, at the present moment, in this age, their only business is how to gratify the senses. The Western countries, they have got little information, but in India, there was cultivation of all kinds of philosophy So atheist philosophy was there. Carvaka Muni is the chief of the atheist class of philosophers. So he said, hedonism. The Western philosophy is hedonism, that eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. This philosophy. So long you have got this body, eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. The Carvaka Muni also said like that. Rnam krtva ghrtam pibet. In India, bodily enjoyment means first, tongue. Tongue's enjoyment. Everywhere. Here also. Tongue's enjoyment. So if we want to control our senses... Therefore Bhaktivinoda Thakura, following the footsteps of previous acarya, he says that "Control your tongue." Control your tongue. And in the Bhagavata also it is said, atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih [Brs. 1.2.234]. With our, these blunt senses, we cannot understand Krsna. It is not possible. The senses are so imperfect that you cannot acquire any perfect knowledge, material or spiritual, by the senses. That is not possible. Atah. Even if you cannot know perfectly the affairs of this material world. Just like they are studying the moon planet, the nearest planet. Besides this moon planet, there are millions and trillions of other planets. They cannot say anything. Because the senses are imperfect. How you can understand? I can see, say up to one mile. But when there is question of millions and trillions of miles, how you can use your senses and have the perfect knowledge? So you cannot have even material knowledge perfectly by using these senses. What to speak of God and spiritual knowledge? That is beyond, manasa-gocara, beyond your conception. Therefore sastra says: atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih [Brs. 1.2.234]. If you want to know God by mental speculation, that is frog philosophy, Dr. Frog, calculating Atlantic Ocean, sitting down in the well. This is called frog philosophy. You cannot understand. Then how it is possible to understand? The next line is sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty. If you employ your tongue in the service of the Lord, He'll reveal Himself to you. He'll reveal, revelation.

So therefore we have to control the tongue. What is the tongue's business? The tongue's business is taste and vibrate. So you vibrate in service of the Lord, Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna means "O Krsna, O the energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service." Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare... This is the meaning of Hare Krsna. It has no other meaning. "O my Lord Krsna and O the energy of Krsna, Radharani, especially, kindly both of You engage me in Your service." As Narottama dasa Thakura says: ha ha prabhu nanda-suta vrsabhanu-suta-juta: "My Lord, Krsna, You are well known as the son of Nanda Maharaja. And Your eternal consort, Radharani, She's also known as the daughter of King Vrsabhanu. So both of You are here." Ha ha prabhu nanda-suta vrsabhanu-suta... koruna karoho ei-bara. "Now I have come to You. Please both of You be merciful upon me." This is Hare Krsna: "Be merciful upon me." Narottama-dasa koy na theliho ranga pay: "Your lotus feet, You have got, don't neglect me or push away with Your lotus feet." I think if Krsna kicks and push away, that is our great fortune. You see. If Krsna kicks with His lotus feet: "You go away," that is also a great fortune. What to speak of accepting? Just like when Krsna was kicking on the hood of the Kaliya. So the Kaliya's wives prayed: "My dear Sir, I do not know, this culprit, Kaliya, how he became so fortunate that his hood is being kicked by You? Your touch of lotus feet, great, great sages, saintly persons are trying to meditate upon millions of years, but this Kaliya... I do not know, what did he do in his past life that he's fortunate that his hood is being kicked by You?"

So this is our position, that we cannot understand Krsna by our mental speculation, limited sense. That is not possible. We have to engage -- sevonmukhe hi jihvadau [Brs. 1.2.234] -- beginning from jihva, tongue. Tongue is the greatest enemy, and it is the greatest friend also. If you allow the tongue to do whatever it likes, smoking, drinking, eating meat, and this and that, then it is your greatest enemy. And if you do not allow the tongue, you can control the tongue, then you can control the, all the senses. Automatically. Ta'ra madhye jihva ati lobhamoy sudurmati, ta'ke jeta kathina samsare, krsna bado doyamoy koribare jihva jay, sva-prasad-anna dilo bhai, sei annamrta pao, radha-krsna-guna gao, preme dako caitanya-nitai. So tongue should be used always for glorifying the Supreme Lord. That is our business with the tongue. And the tongue should not be allowed to eat anything except krsna-prasada. Then you become liberated, simply by controlling the tongue. And if you allow the tongue to do anything, then it very difficult. So the spiritual education, as Krsna says, begins when you understand that I am not this body. And satisfying the senses is not my business, because I am not this body. If I am not this body, why shall I bother myself to satisfy the body only? Body means the senses. This is the first instruction.

So the karmis, jnanis, yogis, they're all trying to satisfy the demands of the body. The karmis are directly doing that. "Eat, drink, be merry, enjoy." That is their philosophy. Jnani also, he's simply trying to understand that "I am not this body." Neti neti neti neti: "This is not, this is not, this is not, this is not, this is no..." The yogis, they are also trying to come to the point of controlling the senses by bodily exercise, hatha-yoga. So their center of activity is body. Center of activity is body. And our philosophy begins that "You are not this body." You see? When they will pass their M.A. examination in studying this body, then they may be able to understand what is their function. But our philosophy begins that "You are not this body."

Postgraduate study. "You are not this body." That is Krsna's instruction. We have seen so many big, big politicians and scholars in India. They write comments on Bhagavad-gita, but they write on this bodily concept of life. We have seen in our country the great leader, Mahatma Gandhi, his photo is with Bhagavad-gita. But what did he do throughout his whole life? The bodily concept: "I am Indian. I am Indian." Nationalism means that bodily concept of life. "I am Indian." "I am American." "I am Canadian." But we are not this body. Then were is the question of "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Canadian"? So they have no, this knowledge, the bodily concept of life, they're absorbed, and still they're authority of Bhagavad-gita. Just see the fun. And Bhagavad-gita teaches in the beginning "You are not this body." And they are in the bodily concept of life. Then just try to understand what is their position. What they can understand Bhagavad-gita? If one is feeling that "I belong to this nation, I belong to this family, I belong to this community, I belong to this cult, I belong to this, I belong to this religion...," everything is bodily concept of life. The yogis, they are also trying to understand by bodily exercise. The jnani is also trying to know, understand fully that "I am not this body." And the karmis, they cannot understand. They are as animals. The animals cannot understand that he's not body.

So factually the karmis, jnanis, yogis, are a little, maybe elevated than the animals. That's all. They are on the animal platform, but it is little elevated. So I give this example -- perhaps you heard it -- that the dry side of the stool. India, they pass stool on the open field. So at the end of day, because there is sunshine, the upper side of the stool becomes dried up. And the lower side, still moist. So somebody says, "This side is very good." He does not know. It is stool after all. This side, or that side. So these rascals, they are on the bodily concept of life, and they are thinking that "I am nationalist," "I am yogi," "I am this, I am that, I am that..." You see. This is the philosophy.

So long you are in the bodily concept of life, we are no better than the animal. That is the Bhagavata philosophy. You are animal. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dha... [SB 10.84.13], sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih, yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. So go-khara means, go means cow, khara means ass. Animals. So who is that? Now yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatu. This bag of tri-dhatu -- kapha pitta vayu -- if one thinks that "I am this body, I am this body, and, in bodily relation,..." Because in bodily relation I have got my family, society, children, wife, country, and therefore they are mine. So yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dha..., sva-dhih. Sva-dhih means thinking: "They are mine. I am theirs." Sva-dhih kalatradisu. Kalatra means wife. Through wife, we get children, we expand. The Sanskrit word is stri. Stri means expansion. I remain one. As soon as I get wife, I get, become two. Then three, then four, then five. Like that. That is called stri. So, our expansion, these expansions, these material expansion, bodily expansion, means illusion. Janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This illusion increases, that "I am this body, and in bodily relation, everything is mine." Aham mama. Aham means "I", and mama means "my."

So, so long one shall remain in the bodily concept of life, his illusion will increase. It will never decrease. Therefore the first instruction of Krsna to Arjuna... Because if Arjuna would not have been in that position of illusion, that "I am this body, and the other side, my brother, my grandfather, my nephews, they're all my relations. How can I kill?" This is the illusion.

Therefore to dissipate this illusion, darkness, Krsna begins the first lesson that "You are not this body." Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. You'll have to change this body as you have already changed. You have already changed. You were a baby. You change your body to child. You change your body to boyhood. You change your body to youthhood. You change your body to old man. Now, after change is ... As you have already changed so many times, similarly, there will be another change. You'll have to accept another body. Very simply logic. You have already changed.

So tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati: [Bg. 2.13] "So don't be afraid that your nephews and grandfather or guru and they will die. They'll not die. Change the body." That's it. So na muhyati dhira. Dhira means sober, whose brain is nice, cool brain. One should not be bewildered when there is change of body. But the point is, Krsna says that tatha dehantara-praptih. Another change of... So the sober, one who is sober, he will think: "Then what kind of body I'm going to get next?" That is the problem. But these rascals, they do not know. Still, they are proud of their intelligence. He does not know for what kind of body he has come to this body, and what he's going to get next body. They have no intelligence. Even they are said that "Suppose if you get next body, dog's body," they say, "What is the harm?" Yes. In, what is called, Hawaii University, one student says like that. He's student. He's being educated. But he doesn't care even if he's going to become a dog next life. This is the education. This is the education. And they're intelligent. Professor Kotovsky said, in Moscow: "Swamiji, after finishing this body, everything is finished." Just see. He's professor. And he's student.

So this is the position of so-called professor, student, university, all rascals. This is our challenge. All rascals. Because they are in the bodily concept of life, "I am this body. And the body has no change." Body's changing. He's seeing actually in this life. Still he'll not believe that "After changing this body, I'll get another body." It is very logical. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. Exactly in the same way, as we have changed so many times this body, I'll have to change. Therefore, one who is intelligent, he should try to understand that "What kind of body I going to get next?" That is intelligence. So that is also explained in the Bhagavad-gita, what kind of body you can get.

yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutani yanti bhutejya
yanti mad-yajino 'pi mam
[Bg. 9.25]

If you want to go to the higher planetary system where demigods live for hundreds and thousands and millions of years... Just like Brahma. Brahma's one day you cannot calculate. So in higher planetary system, you have got thousands and thousands of better facility for sense gratification and duration of life. Everything. Otherwise, why the karmis, they want to go to the heavenly planet? So yanti deva-vrata devan [Bg. 9.25]. So if you try to go the higher planetary system, you can go. Krsna says. There is process. Just like for going to the moon planet, one must be very expert in the karma-kanda, fruitive activities. By karma-kanda, you get, by the resultant action of your pious activities, you can be promoted to the moon planet. That is mentioned in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. But you cannot enter moon planet by your, this process: "By force we shall go with this aeroplane and jets and sputniks. Oh..." That's not possible. Suppose I got a nice motorcar in America. If I want to enter in another country forcibly, is it possible? No. You must get the passport, visa. You must get sanction from the government. Then you can enter. Not that because you have got a very good car, you'll be allowed. So we cannot by force... This is foolish attempt, childish attempt. They cannot go. Therefore nowadays they stopped. They do not speak. They are realizing their failure. In this way, you cannot. So, but there is possibility. You can go if you adopt the real process. You can be promoted. Similarly you can go to the Pitrlokas by offering sraddhas and pinda; you can go to the Pitrloka. Similarly you can remain in this loka. Bhutejya. Similarly you can go back to home, back to Godhead. So who is intelligent? And if you ask: What is the benefit by going to the planet, back to home, back to Godhead? That is assured in the Bhagavad-gita: mam upetya tu kaunteya duhkhalayam asasvatam napnuvanti: [Bg. 8.15] "If you come to Me, then you won't have to accept again this material body, which is full of miserable conditions. You will remain in your spiritual body."

So our Krsna consciousness movement is meant for, I mean to say, allowing, elevating all living entities... Of course, it is not for all. It is very difficult. But anyone who has accepted this Krsna consciousness movement, if he follows the principles, then he's surely going to home, back to home, back to Godhead. That is certain. But if you deviate, if you become attracted by maya, that is your business. But we are giving you information: This is the process, a simple process. Chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra, be purified, be..., remain always liberated from material clutches, and tyaktva deham. Mam upetya. Janma karma me divyam yo janati... If you simply try to understand Krsna, then tyaktva deham, after quitting this body, mam eti, "You'll come to Me."

So this is our philosophy. It is very simple. And everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. You try to realize and preach this cult for the benefit of the whole world. Then everyone will be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- Los Angeles, April 11, 1973

"Staying Undisturbed In Distress"

"Staying Undisturbed In Distress"

68/11/29 Los Angeles, Bhagavad-gita 2.13-17


Madhudvisa: Thirteen. "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youth and then to old age, similarly the soul also passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change." Purport: "Since every living entity is an individual soul, each is changing his body at every moment, manifesting sometimes as a child, sometimes as a youth, and sometimes as an old man, although the same spirit soul is there and does not undergo any change. The individual soul finally changes the body itself in transmigrating from one to another. And since it is sure to have another body in the next birth, either material or spiritual, there was no cause for lamentation by Arjuna on account of death, either over Bhisma or over Drona, for whom he was so concerned."

Prabhupada: Now, this simple fact, as it is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, that dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13], the change of body is taking place every moment. Every moment. Just like this child, the child, if there is some measuring instrument, if you measure this child today, tomorrow you'll find the child has grown or changed the body. That is a medical science also. The body is changing. The body is changing, but the soul is there. Just like I had my childhood body, boyhood body, and now I am in a different body, but I remember all the activities of my childhood. Therefore I am permanent. And body is changing. This simple truth, what is the difficulty for the people to understand this simple truth? The body is changing, but I am not changing. I am eternal. Therefore I am not this body. I am not changing. This simple truth, the first instruction of Bhagavad-gita. Krsna has begun instructing Arjuna... After Arjuna has accepted his discipleship, the first instruction is this, that "You are lamenting on the body of your grandfather and teacher regarding fighting, but your grandfather, or the soul...," which is already explained that, "You are soul, I am the supreme soul, or all these kings and soldiers who has assembled, they are also souls. They existed in the past. Now they have changed their body. Again they will change their body, but they will exist." This is the instruction. The body is changing, and the vivid example? That in this life you are changing body. So what is the difficulty of understanding this simple truth that the soul is different from the body? And so far eternity of the soul, that is also, there is proof. Because in childhood I was present, in boyhood I was present, in youthhood I was present, and in this old age I am still present. (baby fussing) So naturally it is concluded that when I change this body, I exist. When I change this body... This body will be changed. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. As the parents of this child... Now she is, say, one-feet long only. When this child will grow five feet long, the father and mother, will they cry, "Oh, my child! Where is my child, that one-feet long?" He knows. The parents know that my child is there, but changed the body. This is a fact. Similarly, "You are lamenting on the body of your grandfather and teacher, even they change their body, what is the cause of lamentation? They will exist." This is the beginning of instruction of Bhagavad-gita or spiritual instruction. Unless one understands this simple fact, that the soul is different from this body, the soul is eternal, the body is temporary, changing... Because without understanding this, there is no spiritual education. A false education. If one identifies with this body, there is no understanding of spiritual knowledge.

So the yogis, they are trying to come to this point by meditation, "Whether I am this body or not." Meditation means that. First meditation, concentration of the mind, the different kinds of sitting posture, that helps me to concentrate my mind. And if I concentrate my mind, meditation, so am I this body? Then if I am not this body, where I am in this body? Then if he analyzes, he'll find himself within this heart. Within this heart the soul is also there, and the Supersoul is also there. Krsna is also there. So the perfectional stage of yoga is to see the Supersoul and understand oneself that "I am individual soul." So that perfectional stages we are immediately offering, that you try to see Krsna always, Krsna consciousness. The yogis are trying to reach a platform after so much exercise of the body. We are giving that thing immediately, that "Be Krsna conscious." You are eternal part and parcel of Krsna, and Krsna is the Supersoul. Why should you take so much botheration to find Him within? He's without also. He's all-powerful. He can accept your offerings, and you can take prasadam. This is practical yoga. So we are not beginning from the gross stage. The Bhagavad-gita, although it is ABCD of spiritual instruction, it begins from that stage, which stage the jnanis, the philosophers and the yogis, they are trying to reach. But we have no time. In this age by yoga practice, to come to this stage, that "I am not this body"... Ask any student who are practicing yoga, so-called meditation, they are inclined to this body. They are trying to exercise this body and they think that this is the final. No. Simple truth, very simple truth. Krsna, as the supreme authority, presenting very simply, that dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. As in this body there are different changes, similarly the ultimate change is called death. But the spirit soul, as he's existing within this body in spite of all changes, similarly the spirit soul will continue to exist even after the final change of this body. This simple truth. Try to understand this. This is the basic principle of further progress. If one does not understand this point of view, there is no progress. This is ABCD, that "I am not this body." Read on.

Madhudvisa: "Rather he should rejoice at their changing bodies from old to new ones."

Prabhupada: Now here is another argument, that "Why you are going to lament on the body of your grandfather? He's grand old man. If he does not die, if you do not kill him, how long he will live? So you kill him or not kill him, he will die. And you should be rather joyful because your grandfather is going to have again..." This is only for argument. "...again have a new body." The... When Caitanya Mahaprabhu met Chand Kazi... I think I have explained this story many times. Chand Kazi was Mohammedan. So you know the story that Caitanya Mahaprabhu started civil disobedience, disregarded the section, I mean to say, imposed by the magistrate Chand Kazi that "You cannot hold the sankirtana. The people are disturbed." Just like you are being threatened by the police. So this is not new thing. This thing is going on from the very beginning, even Caitanya Mahaprabhu's time. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu disregarded the notice. "Don't care for this Kazi. Go on." And when people... He was very popular, but we are not popular. Caitanya Mahaprabhu (laughs) was Krsna. He had attraction. He was, although a boy of twenty years old, He had many followers. He ordered, "Oh, Kazi has ordered to stop. Now I order that hundreds of thousands of people shall assemble this night, and we shall go to the Kazi's house." This is civil disobedience. So people agreed, and there were hundreds of thousands of mrdangas and hundreds of thousands of people, and they chanted and crossed the whole street, don't care for any police action. And the Kazi saw, "Oh, it is a mass movement." He was afraid. You see? When any movement is taken by the people, then the government becomes afraid. Just like the marijuana movement? Now there is no more legal action. Government cannot because all people are taking to marijuana. You see? What is that? Mariana, marijuana. Marijuana. So you make this marijuana, taken by all people, then police will be afraid. You see? They'll not dare to stop you.

So when there was talk with Kazi... Chand Kazi was learned man. So first of all Caitanya Mahaprabhu challenged, "My dear uncle..." He established the relation to pacify Caitanya. "My Nimai, Nimai..." He called just like boy. He was boy. "Nimai, oh, Your grandfather Nilambara Cakravarti, I call him caca." Caca means uncle. The Muslims they call... In India these Britishers created feelings between Hindus and Muslims, but otherwise the Hindus and Muslims are living since eight centuries. So in the village they lived peacefully, and the Hindus call the Muslims "caca", and the Muslim call the Hindu... In this way they make some friendly relationship. There was no ill feeling. Even they will invite, the Hindus will invite. In our childhood we have seen, in marriage ceremony or in some religious ceremony also, some Muslim friends were invited, and they were received. Similarly Muslims also invite some Hindus. They'll make separate... My father, he used to be guest of a Muslim gentleman. He was his customer. So he used to make separate arrangement my father, a brahmana attendant, supplying all foodstuff. So there was no... And he was coming to our house, so he, accompanied with his servant Muslims, we used to supply foodstuff. They were cooking in their own way. Of course, no meat was allowed, but there were friendship. And while departing, he would give us some money, four rupees, five rupees, in the hands of all our brothers and sisters and offer respect to my mother as "Auntie." These feelings were there. This ill feeling was created by the Britishers. When they saw that Gandhi is improving the Hindu-Muslim situation, they created a, what is called, a split. Anyway, that is political. So this Chand Kazi informed Caitanya Mahaprabhu, "Nimai, I call Your grandfather, Your mother's father, as my caca, as my uncle. So in that way Your mother is my sister according to our village relationship, and You are my nephew. So how is that a nephew is so much angry upon his uncle? Is it not good?" So Caitanya Mahaprabhu could understand that he has come down. He has now become uncle. So He said, "Yes, My dear uncle, I know that. It is not My duty to be angry with you, but how is that, I am your nephew, I have come to your home, and you went upstairs, you did not receive Me? Anyway, what is done is done, forget."

So then they sat down and talked. The first challenge was Caitanya Mahaprabhu's, that "My dear uncle, what is your this religion that you're eating father and mother?" That was His first challenge. And the Kazi said, "What is that? What do You mean by that?" "You are eating a bull and cow. Cow is your mother. You are drinking milk; therefore she is your mother. And the bull is helping you, producing your food, maintaining. As the father maintains you and mother gives you milk. And do you think it is good to kill them?" So Kazi, he was also learned, "Oh, Your Vedic scripture also, there is cow sacrifice." Caitanya Mahaprabhu immediately said, "No, that is not killing. That was giving a new body to show the strength of the Vedic mantras." A cow was sacrificed in the fire and by mantra, by chanting of the mantra, the cow will come out with a new body, young body. That was not killing. So similarly, here also, Krsna is giving the same argument, that "You are lamenting on your grandfather. He has got old body, but if he is killed in this battle, he'll have a new, fresh new body. So you should be joyful. Why are you lamenting?" So this argument was forwarded by Krsna, that... Now, just like this child. This child can hope many things. He has got immense duration of life now beginning, and what hope I have got? I am now this old body, say five years or ten years more. So I cannot expect, hope anything more, than this child. So Krsna is giving that "There is no question of lamentation for your grandfather. Your grandfather is going to have a new lease of life. Why should you be sorry?" So this argument He is forwarding, but nobody will agree to this argument. Yes. Go on.

Madhudvisa: "Such changes of body are meant for varieties of enjoyment or suffering by the living entity according to one's own work in this life. So Bhisma and Drona, being noble souls, were surely going to have either spiritual bodies in the next or at least life in godly bodies."

Prabhupada: Yes. "Now, so far your grandfather is concerned, Bhismadeva, he is one of the greatest devotees. So as soon as he gives up this body, he's going to Vaikuntha." Same example, as I told you the other day, that muni-putra... Ma jiva ma jiva muni-putraka ciram jiva raja-putra. "Oh, the son of saintly person, you don't live. And oh, the son of a king, you live forever." Why? Because the son of a saintly person, he is undergoing austerities, penances, disciplinary activities. So his life is, his future is so bright that he's going to Vaikuntha. And this, the son of king, he's simply indulging in sense gratification. So he's going to hell. So the person who is destined to go to kingdom of God, the sooner he dies is better for him. And this person, one who is going to hell, the later he dies it is good for him because as soon as he dies the hell is prepared for him. So similarly, "Why should you lament for your grandfather and teacher? They are so highly elevated, spiritually elevated. Death will take place so long this body is there. Now they have come to fight as a matter of duty. So there is no lamentation." This is the instruction Krsna is giving. Yes.

Madhudvisa: "In either case there was no cause for lamentation. Any man who has perfect knowledge of the constitution of the individual soul, the Supersoul, and nature, both material and spiritual, is called a dhira or a most sober man."

Prabhupada: Dhira. Dhira means sober, is not disturbed. A person who is not disturbed by paltry causes, he's called dhira. Another example of dhira is given by poet Kalidasa. He was a great poet, mundane poet. So he said that dhira is one who is not disturbed even in the presence of disturbance. When there is no disturbance, one may not be disturbed, but in the presence of disturbance, one who is not disturbed, he is called dhira. The cause of disturbance. Just like a person trained in restriction of sex life, so when he's perfect, even there is cause of sex impetus, he'll not be disturbed. That is the, called dhira. So he is describing that "These persons are highly elevated. You are also My friend. Why you are disturbed in this way? That does not look well." Go on.

Madhudvisa: "Such a man is never deluded by the change of bodies by the living entity."

Prabhupada: Yes. A man is crying, "Oh, my father is dead," or "My friend is dead, my..." so on, so on, crying. But one who is dhira he knows, "What is this death? He has changed his body, so there is no question of lamentation." So how much spiritual education required to come to this point? Yes, go on.

Madhudvisa: "O son of Kunti, the nonpermanent appearance of heat and cold, happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course are like the appearance of winter and summer season. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed."

Prabhupada: Now the question is, "Yes, I understand that my grandfather is spirit soul and this body is material. Still, by nature I'll be unhappy if my grandfather is killed and my teacher is killed. I'll be unhappy." So Krsna is instructing Arjuna that this kind of unhappiness, distress, is this world. You cannot avoid it. These are necessary distresses. The example He's giving that severe cold. In the winter season, in the month of January or some month, the winter is very severe, intolerable. Sometimes somewhere it is below 30 degrees zero. But what is to be done? The people in such part of the world who live... Just like in Canada it goes sometimes 30 degrees below zero. Does it mean that they'll close their offices and work and everything? No. Everything is going on as usual. One has to tolerate. That's all. In India also, in India and other parts of the eastern countries. Just like Arabia, Iraq or... During summertime, the temperature is 135. You cannot imagine 135. In India we have experienced temperature, I have experienced up to 118 degrees. Not always, unusually. But 110 degree is usual during summertime, 110 degree. Usual temperature. So does it mean... The scorching heat, you cannot get out on the street. But still, one has to go to office, one has to go to work. There are some cases of heat stroke. Still, nobody can stop his duty. "Similarly, even if you think that by discharging your duty as a warrior, as a ksatriya, your grandfather will be killed or... Of course, there is no cause of lamentation. He'll get another new body. But even if you think, if your bodily concept is so strong, if you are sorry, so you have to, I mean to say, tolerate. Just one has to tolerate extreme heat and extreme cold." There is no cause of crying, "Oh, there is extreme heat, extreme heat." What you'll do? That is nature's law. Extreme heat -- everyone is cooking. Nobody says, "Oh, today is extreme heat. I cannot cook." No. Everybody is cooking, although there is suffering. Similarly, there is extreme cold, but everyone is taking bath in the Ganges. Nobody says, "Oh, I'll not take bath. So duty has to be done. There may be some suffering, temporary. Even though... Krsna never says, "Oh, my dear Arjuna, you are My friend. All right, you are feeling so much sorry. All right, I shall do it for you. You sit down, silent." No. Krsna never says that. "You have to do it." Although He says that "This battle is arranged by Me. They're already killed. Nobody is going back. Still, you have to do it."

So our duty, persons who are Krsna consciousness, engaged in Krsna consciousness, they should always know that everything is to be done by Krsna. We cannot do anything without Krsna's sanction. But still, we have to do our own duty. Not that, "Oh, Krsna will do everything. Therefore we shall not try for a storefront or we shall not go to see this man or... Krsna..." No! That is lethargy. You have to do your own duty. But result, depend on Krsna. This is Krsna conscious. You don't be sorry if there is failure, you don't be unhappy if there is success, uh, you don't be too much, I mean to say, jubilant if there is success. Everything is done by Krsna. This is the attitude of Krsna consciousness. They have to do their own duty. Never mind whether it is suffering or happiness. It doesn't matter.

Madhudvisa: "O best among men, the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress, and is steady in both, is certainly eligible for liberation."

Prabhupada: Yes. This is the sign, characteristics or symptoms of a person who is going to be liberated in this life. He has to do his duty. So far we are concerned, we have accepted Krsna consciousness duty, so we have to execute our duties faithfully and seriously. Then it is sure Krsna will give us the desired result. A nice example is given. Just like a girl is married to a boy. Generally, girls desire a child. So if she, after the marriage, if she immediately wants a child, that is not possible. But because she is married, and if she serves faithfully her husband, her husband is pleased and there is love, in due course of time, there will be child. Why there is hesitation? There will be child. Similarly, we have taken to Krsna consciousness. If we discharge our duties faithfully, then in due course of time, Krsna will give the desired result. Don't be hesitant. Don't be doubtful. It is sure. Krsna says that tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Anyone who is in Krsna consciousness perfectly, for him, after leaving this body, he's coming to Me. This is His assurance. So we haven't got any doubt, Krsna has assured. So let us do our duty perfectly, as far as possible. We cannot execute anything perfectly in presence of Krsna because He is infinite, we are finite. Our energy, our talent, everything is finite. But if we try our best, then bhava-grahi-janardana. Krsna sees only how much sincere I am, how much sincerely I'm executing the duties entrusted upon me. That's all. Otherwise it is not in our power to serve Krsna perfectly. That is not... Because we are very teeny. But be assured that the desired result will come if we act sincerely to the point. Yes.

Madhudvisa: "Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance and of the eternal there is no cessation. Seers have concluded this by studying the nature of both." Purport: "There is no endurance of the changing body. That the body is changing every moment by the actions and reactions of different cells is admitted by modern medical science, and thus growth and old age are taking place. But the spiritual soul exists permanently, remaining the same in all changing circumstances of the body and mind. That is the difference between matter and spirit. By nature the body is ever-changing and the soul is eternal. This conclusion is established by all classes of seers of the truth, impersonalists and personalists."

Prabhupada: This is... So far the constitution of the spirit is concerned, it is eternal. That is accepted by all philosophers, personalists and impersonalists. The only difference is that the impersonalist says that after liberation, after getting freed from this bodily contamination, the spirit soul mixes with the Supreme Soul, all-pervading, without any individual existence. Just like the same example, that the small sky within the pitcher. When the pitcher is broken, the small sky within the pitcher mixes with the big sky. The Vaisnava philosopher says that the small sky is individual. It mixes with the big sky, but it keeps its individuality. The example is given in this connection: just like a green bird entering a green tree. So when the bird enters the tree, nobody can find out where is the bird because the leaves of the tree are green and the bird is also green. Nobody can trace out. But that does not mean the bird has lost its individuality. The individuality is there. Just like you see one airplane is flying in the air, and when it goes too far, it appears that it has disappeared. It seems to us that there is no more that airplane. It has mixed with the sky. But actually it is not. It is still there, individual existence. It is my ignorance that I see that it is no more separate, it has mixed with the sky. Just like in the daytime we don't find any star in the sky. Due to the dazzling sunshine, we cannot see any stars. At night, we can see millions of stars, there are. Similarly, that is the impersonalism and personalism. One whose knowledge is not perfect, they think imperson, everything homogeneous. And one whose knowledge is perfect... Vedas also confirm it... Just like in the Isopanisad, there is a verse in which it is stated that "Please withdraw Your effulgence so that I can see Your real face." Just like the sun globe. You cannot see it perfectly due to the dazzling sunshine. But the sun globe is there, and in the glow there are living entities, and there is a principal head man, god. They are not man because their body is made of fire. So similarly, the first, impersonal impression, Brahman, then further advanced, Supersoul, and when further advanced, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. First realization, Brahman, impersonal; the second realization is Paramatma, Supersoul; and the last realization is the personal form of God, Krsna. Go on.

Madhudvisa: "In the Visnu Purana also this truth has been established. It is stated there that Visnu and His abodes all have self-illuminated spiritual existence. The words existent and nonexistent refer only to spirit and matter. That is the version of all seers of truth. This is the beginning of the instruction by the Lord to the living entities who are bewildered by the influence of ignorance. Removal of this ignorance means reestablishment of the eternal relationship between the worshiper and the worshipable and the consequent understanding of the difference between part-and-parcel living entities and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One can understand the nature of the Supreme by thorough study of oneself, the difference between oneself and the Supreme being understood as the relationship between the part and the whole. In the Vedanta-sutra as well as in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, the Supreme has been accepted as the origin of all emanations. Such emanations are experienced by superior and inferior natural sequences. The living entity belongs to the superior nature, as will be revealed in the Seventh Chapter. Although there is no difference between the energy and the energetic, the energetic is accepted as supreme and the energy, or nature, is accepted as the subordinate. The relationship of the living entities therefore is always to be subordinate to the Supreme Lord, as with master and the servant or the teacher and the taught. Such clear knowledge is impossible to grasp under the spell of ignorance. To drive away such ignorance, the Lord teaches the Bhagavad-gita for enlightenment of all beings for all time." Seventeen: "That which pervades the body is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul."

Prabhupada: Now, "pervades the body," that is consciousness. The soul is very small, but... Just like you take one grain of, what is called, poison? Snake poison? Arsenic? Poison called? What is called? Yes, venom poison.

Tamala Krsna: Arsenic is poison.

Prabhupada: Yes. You take only one grain and mix with water and just inject within your body. So immediately the action is there that your heart fails and you die. One small half grain of pota (?)cyanide, you take, just touch on the tongue. According to the chemist there is no taste of pota cyanide. Because what is this... Whether it is sour or sweet, because there was no chance of tasting it. As soon as the taste is, the man is finished. He cannot say what is the sour or sweet. So if a material thing, a small particle, has got so much power that immediately it can stop the function of the body, immediately spreads all over the body, so the soul, the spiritual spark, grain, a small grain, just like atom, it is so powerful that so long that spiritual grain, spirit is in the heart, this body is so nice. As soon as it is passed, immediately body begins to decompose. Immediately. So it is so powerful. If a material thing can spread all over the body, why not the spirit? This is consciousness. Because the spirit soul is within the heart, I can pinch any part of my body, I feel that this is consciousness. This is consciousness. Go on reading. So because... Just like the effect of a poisonous grain of material thing is immediately felt all over the body, similarly by the consciousness which is spreading all over the body, you can understand that there is soul.

Madhudvisa: "This verse more clearly explains the real nature of the soul which is spread all over the body. Anyone can understand what is spread all over the body. It is consciousness. Everyone is conscious about the pains and pleasures of the body in part or as a whole. This spreading of consciousness is limited within one's own body."

Prabhupada: Now, this consciousness, the Mayavadi philosopher says, "Yes, I am consciousness. The same theory. This small consciousness, but as soon as I break this body, the small consciousness will mix up with the supreme consciousness." That is their theory. But anyway, whatever that theory may be, at least in my present condition, I, my consciousness, is limited within this body. I cannot say that I am superconscious. Had I been superconscious, then the pains and pleasure going on (in) your body I would have felt. But because I am limited within this body, therefore the pains and pleasure of my body I can understand. Therefore my consciousness is limited. You cannot argue that you are the same... That will be explained. Krsna says in the Thirteenth Chapter that ksetra-jnam capi mam viddhi sarva-ksetresu bharata [Bg. 13.3]. Ksetra-jna, the soul, and, is within this body. Therefore soul is called ksetra-jna. Ksetra-jna means "one who knows about this body." I am conscious about my this body. You are conscious about your body. But Krsna is conscious of your body and my body and everyone's body. Therefore He's also ksetra-jna, but He's ksetra-jna, He's Supersoul. Just the same example. Just like the sun, during meridian, is on your head. At 5,000 miles, you ask your friend "Where is the sun?" He'll also say, "It is on my head." [break]

If a person is actually executing devotional service, then he must be happy. If he's not happy, then he's not doing properly. So first thing is this. He might be doing something in the name of devotional service. If he's actually rendering devotional service, then he must be feeling. Just like if you are eating actually, then you must feel strength and satisfaction of your hunger. You cannot say, "I'm eating, but I'm not satisfied of my hunger." That is impossible. This is not possible. Then you are not eating. Or you are eating, but it is being devoured by the worms within your intestines. Sometimes it happens. If there are many worms within the intestines, you go on voraciously eating, but you don't get strength because the eating substance, the essence, is taken by the worms. Therefore the worm treatment is there to kill the worms. Otherwise they will eat everything. You'll feel hungry, but will not get any strength. This is the worm disease. So if I am actually rendering devotional service and I'm not getting any happiness, that means there is some maya's play. Otherwise there is no such reasoning. He must feel happy. Then he has to rectify the process of his service. Not to change but rectify the process. (aside) What is that? (laughs) It cannot be. If you are actually executing devotional service, you must feel happy. If you don't feel happy, then you are not executing. There is some flaw. Yes.

Nandarani: When householder women raise their children in Krsna consciousness, this seems to be an indirect service for Krsna. Should they try to serve Him more directly by, you know, maybe cooking in the temple or being, you know, something like this, more directly, or is raising children and just having the household function, is that enough service? Is that enough service?

Prabhupada: Yes, the thing is we should be Krsna conscious. Just like electrification. Touching electricity by one wire, another joining another, another wire, if the touch is there factual, then the electricity is everywhere. Similarly if our Krsna consciousness is rightly connected, then there is no question of direct or indirect. Because absolute world there is no difference. As soon as it is touched with the direct connection... That is called disciplic succession. Because the connection is coming down one after another, so if we touch here, the spiritual master who is connected by the same way, then the electric connection is there. There is no question of direct or indirect. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Simply we have to see whether the connection is disconnected. If the connection is there, tight, then the electricity come without fail. So in our conditioned stage there will be so many doubts, so many implication. But the same thing as I gave you example, that don't be very much hasty to receive the result immediately. Simply we have to follow. We have to follow. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanat. This is advised by Rupa Gosvami. The six things we have to take particular care, and six things we have to avoid in order to be perfect in Krsna consciousness.

So utsahad dhairyan niscayat. The first principle is one must be very enthusiastic. He must believe that Krsna has said that, na me bhaktah pranasyati, "My devotee will never be vanquished." So "Let me becomes Krsna's devotee sincerely. I must become Krsna's devotee sincerely." This is called enthusiasm. Then dhairyat. "I have become Krsna's devotee, but still I'm not feeling happy. How is that?" So therefore you have to become patient. The enthusiasm must be there, you must be patient also. And niscayat. Niscayat means you must be confident. "Oh, Krsna has said that His devotee will never be vanquished, so surely I shall not be vanquished, even though I don't feel now. Let me do my duty." Utsahad dhairyan niscayat tat-tat-karma-pravartanat. But you have to do your duties as they are prescribed. Sato vrtteh. You should not... There should be no duplicity. Sato vrtteh means plain dealing, straight dealing. Sato vrtteh, and sadhu-sange, and in the company of devotees. So one must be enthusiastic, one must be patient, one must be confident, one must execute the duties, one must associate with devotees, and one must be very honest in dealing. Six things. If these six things are there, sure success.

Similarly there are six things which should be avoided. What are those? Atyaharah prayasas ca prajalpo niyamagrahah, laulyam jana-sangas ca sadbhir bhaktir vinasyati [NoI 2]. Atyahara, too much eating or too much, I mean to say, keeping bank balance or money, or collecting more than the necessities. Atyahara. Generally, too much eating is prohibited. We have to eat simply just to keep the body and soul nicely to execute Krsna consciousness. Atyaharah prayasas ca. Prayasa means taking some risky work which will require too much endeavor. We should avoid that. Atyaharah prayasah, prajalpa, nonsense talking which has no connection with Krsna consciousness. Atyaharah prayasah prajalpo niyamagrahah. Following the rules, but actually I'm not very much careful in executing the work. So niyamagraha. Niyamagraha means not to accept the rules and regulation, and another meaning is simply to accept the rules and regulation without good effect. Atyaharah prayasas ca prajalpo niyamagrahah laulyam, greediness, and jana-sangas ca, and associating with nondevotees. These things are against execution of devotional service, and the first thing, the patience, enthusiasm, and confidence, these six things are favorable. So we have to take notice of the don'ts and dos. Then it will be all right. Do this, don't do this. There are six kinds of "don't do this," and six kinds of "do this." So that will be nice. Yes?

Madhudvisa: Prabhupada, when you say we must be honest in our dealings... If we have an advantage to, to take advantage of somebody else for Krsna, for Krsna consciousness, is this permissible? If we have a chance to take advantage of somebody to get money from them, not by stealing but by means... (Prabhupada chuckles) Is this permissible?

Prabhupada: Yes, but that is not by your discretion. You have to consult your spiritual master. Just like what Krsna says Yudhisthira Maharaja, "Yudhisthira, My dear brother Yudhisthira, you go and tell," I mean to say, "Dronacarya, that ‘Your son is dead.' " Because this gentleman would not die unless he hears the message of the death of his son. So he was not dying. So Yudhisthira was commissioned to speak this lie, that "You go and say that ‘Your son is dead.' " And he says that "I never spoke lie. I cannot do that." Now here the order is coming from Krsna, therefore he should have executed the order immediately. Although speaking lie for common man is sin, but because it is in relationship with Krsna, it is not sin. So that telling lie should not be taken risk of at one's own discretion. It must be ordered by Krsna or by His representative. Telling lie is always sinful. That's all right. But if Krsna says "Tell lie," it is not sinful. That is the secret. You can violate the laws only on the direct order of Krsna or His representative. That's all. That is common sense. Just like a political person is engaged to kill somebody under superior order. And if he can kill, he is rewarded, he is given high post. But the same man, if he kills by his own discretion, he'll be hanged. So serving greater purpose, supreme purpose, absolute purpose, there is no question of such piety or sinful. But in the ordinary field, there must be "This is pious, this is sinful." So that discretion should not be taken by oneself, but it should be consulted.

Jaya-gopala: If one can engage one who is demonic in service by telling a lie...

Prabhupada: General principle is that if you can engage anyone in Krsna consciousness, that is good. That is good. That is also said in the Bhakti-rasamrta. Yena tena prakarena manah krsne nivesayet. If your aim is to engage him in Krsna consciousness, if you do something which is not very straight, that is allowed. (laughter) Because you are doing very good to him. Suppose a man is drunkard. So suppose if you say, "Oh, all right. I'll give you a very nice bottle of whiskey at cheap price. Give me fifteen dollars." And if you take fifteen dollars and engage it (in) Krsna consciousness, that cheating is allowed. (laughter) Because that fifteen dollars he'll take and drink. So you have by some way taken away that fifteen dollars and engaged in Krsna consciousness. So that you have done good to him. So therefore it requires little intelligence and discretion. But that does not mean you shall cheat fifteen dollars from everywhere. But there is no cheating because anyone who is not Krsna conscious, he is a drunkard. He is drunkard, he is illusioned under material spell. You see? You see? The greatest drunkard, everyone who is not Krsna conscious. Therefore any way, if you can induce him to spend something of his hard earned money in Krsna consciousness, that is very good to him. Yes. This is called ajnata-sukrti. He does not know, but he is advanced one step to Krsna consciousness. Anybody who is contributing even a farthing to you, he is advanced in Krsna consciousness. It is so nice thing. Yes.

Young man: I had something come up once. Is it all right to cheat the government?

Prabhupada: Oh, we don't care for anyone. (laughter) We are on the supreme government. (laughs) But don't take the risk. No, that should be not our policy. But the basic principle is that if some way or other you can engage a materialistic person's money into Krsna consciousness, it is good for him. It is good for him. You may take some tactics, that doesn't matter. But not... We cannot take anything for our personal consideration. Yes?

Young woman: I have a question from Brahma-murti. Why did people in the past ages sacrifice animals, and how did Krsna put a stop to this?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. That I've explained just a few minutes before. The animals were put into the sacrificial fire. By Vedic mantra, he was given new life. But at the present moment such expert priests and brahmanas are not available. Therefore it is stopped. Animal sacrifice is stopped. Because it is Kali-yuga. Nobody is reading, cultivating Vedic mantras. So in this age, this mantra is called maha-mantra, chant Hare Krsna. That's all. All Vedic mantras are now gone to hell. You see? Nobody can properly chant Vedic mantras and take the benefit out of it. But this mantra, any way you chant, neglectfully or properly, chant Hare Krsna and the result is there. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha. There is no other alternative, no other alternative, no other alternative, kalau, in this age. So the Vedic mantra is now gone. This is also Vedic mantra, but this is Vedic maha-mantra, the greatest of all mantras. Yes. So sacrifice everything and chant this mantra and go to Krsna, back to Godhead. That's all. (break -- kirtana)

Prabhupada: You are typing?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: Where is the boy? Virabhadra. Virabhadra. Huh?

Tamala Krsna: Something happened to him. He was in an accident today.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Tamala Krsna: Downtown he was... He is all right, but he was hit by a car. He crossed the street and a car went through the red light and hit him. So they took him to the hospital and he has to remain there overnight for X-rays. But Visnujana is with him, and I think he's all right. It was just his body... He was scraped. The car hit him and he was pushed along the street. He got bounced on the street so his skin was rubbed and burned a little from the burning.

Devotee: At most a fractured rib or two.

Devotee: They can sue the person and get some money.

Tamala Krsna: We're going to sue the man who was driving the car.

Prabhupada: So you have taken the number?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, we have all the details.

Prabhupada: So ask him something to pay. Otherwise sue.

Devotee: Prabhupada? The same thing happened to me and I got about a thousand dollars. So if they can do the same.

Prabhupada: You ask five thousand. (laughter)

Tamala Krsna: Yes, five thousand.

Devotee: A young boy...

Prabhupada: No, he should pay ten thousand because that boy is Krsna conscious. (laughter) Ordinary accident five thousand. (chuckles) All right. He's all right?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, he's all right.

Prabhupada: Not... (kirtana) (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.13-17 -- Los Angeles, November 29, 1968

"Not One Became Devotee"

"Not One Became Devotee"

72/11/19 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 2.13


Prabhupada: ...tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. We began this verse yesterday. This is the criterion of understanding spiritual life. People generally do not understand that there is another element beyond this body. Generally, people, they are under the impression that "I am this body. I am Indian." Why I am Indian? Because this body's born in India. Therefore, I'm Indian. "I am American." Why? "Because body is born in America; therefore I am American." Similarly, this dehatma-buddhih, bodily concept of life, is going on all over the world. This is ignorance, ajnana. This is called ajnana. Jnana and ajnana. Jnana means one who knows that he is not this body. He's spirit soul. Aham brahmasmi. (aside:) (about microphone) It is... Little strong make it, yes. So when one is freed from the bodily concept of life, he called jnani. Otherwise, ajnani. They are so much proud of jnana. In our India, there are so-called Mayavadis. They think of themselves as jnani-sampradaya. What is that jnani? "I am Hindu. I am Indian. I am sannyasi." This is their jnana. But actually it is ajnana. If you think yourself that you are Indian, if you think yourself as Hindu, if you think yourself as brahmana, if you think yourself as a sudra, then you are ajnani. You are not jnani. Because you are giving your identification... (aside, about microphone:) Why it is stopped? If you are giving your identification on the ground of your body, then you are ajnani. Jnani means pandita. Panditah sama-darsinah.

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
[Bg. 5.18]

Actually, who is jnani, who is pandita, he will not see: "Here is an Indian. Here is an American. Here is an Hindu. Here is a Muslim," or "Here is a cat. Here is a dog." No Because he will see not the outward bodily identification. Just like while I am talking with you, because your dress is white, and because my dress is saffron colored, it does not mean that we are different. Simply on the ground of dress, if we think we are different, then that is ajnana. Nobody does so. When a gentleman talks with another gentleman, none of them consider that "I am this dress." Similarly, if I consider about, about my identification on the ground of this dress, then am I not ajnani? Yes, I am ajnani. I do not know my identification.

Therefore sastra says, yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who is identifying himself with this body, which is made of tri-dhatu... Tri-dhatu means kapha-pitta-vayu. According to Ayur Veda system, this body is a combination of kapha-pitta-vayu, mucus, bile, and air. So sastra says, yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. If anyone identifies himself with this bag of kapha-pitta-vayu, a bunch of bones and flesh and blood and stool, sva-dhih kalatradisu, and his own kinsmen, his wife and children, sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih, and worship, worshipable is the land, bhauma, yat-tirtha-buddhih salile, one who goes to the place of pilgrimage and takes the water as all in all, yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij janesu abhijnesu, but does not go to the actual learned saintly persons, sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13], such person is no better than cow and ass. This is the injunction of the sastra, that our identification with the body is animal life. The animal, a dog, it knows that he is body. A cat knows that he is body. A tiger knows that he is body. A human being, also, if he knows like that, that he is body, then why, how he's advanced? He's no better than the cats and dogs. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih [SB 10.84.13]. The whole world is going on on this misimpression, misidentification with the body. Therefore, there is fight between one nation to another, one man to another, and so many...

So jnani means one must be above this bodily concept of life. He's jnani. Therefore to become jnani, the first instruction, as Krsna is giving to Arjuna, He's pointing out that "You are not this body. My dear Arjuna. You are decline, declining to fight, because you are bodily infected. You are thinking that your bodily, blood relation with the other party, namely your brother, nephews and others, that is wrong conception. You are not this body." Because Arjuna surrendered to Krsna: sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. When he was puzzled in the battlefield of Kuruksetra, he thought it wise to accept Krsna not as his friend, his friend, but at the same time, he accepted Him as his spiritual master. Sisyas te' ham sadhi mam prapannam. And the duty of the disciple is to fully surrender unto the spiritual master. Unless you can surrender, (you) do not accept anyone as spiritual master. If you want the spiritual master to abide by your order, then that acceptance of spiritual master is a farce. It is not acceptance. Acceptance of spiritual master means that one should surrender unto the spiritual master. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34]. If you want to learn that transcendental science, tad viddhi, you try to understand. How? Pranipatena. Prakrsta-rupena nipata. Fully surrendering, falling flat. "Sir, I surrender unto you." Pranipatena pariprasnena. And then inquire question.

According to our Vedic principle, nobody has got the right to question anyone unless that person is accepted as spiritual master. Otherwise, it is waste of time. Spiritual... If you want to question somebody, you must accept his answer. You cannot argue. That is acceptance of authority. Just like in Vedas, whatever injunctions are there, we accept it without any argument. That is Vedic instruction. People sometimes say: "Is it Vedic instruction, that I have to accept it without argument?" Actually, that is Vedic instruction. Just like, for example, the Vedas says cow dung is pure. Now actually we are accepting, those who are following the Vedic principles, they accept cow dung as pure. Actually, it is pure. But if we argue: "How is that, that animal stool is impure, even human stool is impure. How cow dung, which is stool of another animal, is pure?" It is contrary. But actually, we accept. Actually we accept. Similarly, conchshell, conchshell is nothing but bone of an animal. According to our Vedic version, if you touch the bone of an animal, you become immediately impure. You have to take bath. But this bone of animal, conchshell, is taken to the Deity room. It is so pure. So from our human consciousness we find contradiction in the Vedic instruction, that in the Vedas, in one place, it says that the bone of an animal is impure; in another place says the bone of a particular animal is pure. The Vedas says the stool of an animal is impure, but in another place it says that the stool of the cow animal is pure. So apparently we find contradiction. But still, because we accept the authority of the Vedas, therefore we accept the statement also. We accept the bone of the conchshell, and we accept the stool of cow as pure. That is acceptance of authority. You cannot argue. Even though it appears it is contradictory, you cannot argue.

Similarly, acceptance of spiritual master means representative of God. Of course, he, he must be representative of God. If unfortunately I accept a bogus man as representative of..., that is my misfortune. But actually, acceptance of spiritual master means he's a bona fide representative of God. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, you'll find. That parampara system, disciplic succession, acarya. Acaryavan puruso veda. Just like we accept our philosophy, Vaisnava philosophy, or any Indian philosophy, they accept this parampara, guru-parampara. They accept it. Sampradaya. Just like we have got samprada..., Ramanuja-sampradaya, Madhva-sampradaya. So we have to accept the sampradaya, disciplic succession, to receive real knowledge. So that sampradaya begins from Krsna. Krsna is the original spiritual master of Lord Brahma, of Lord Siva, Narada, so many other authorities. There are twelve authorities, svayambhur naradah sambhuh [SB 6.3.20]. Svayambhu means Lord Brahma; Narada; and Sambhu, Lord Siva; Kumara; Kapila; Manu. They are all authorities. So that is the indication of the sastra, that if you want to understand the transcendental science, the science of God, then tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is the injunction of the Vedas, that if you really interested to learn the transcendental science, you must approach. Abhigacchet. This is vidhilin. Vidhilin. This form of verb is used in Sanskrit grammar when it meant "You must." You cannot say "I may accept or may not accept." That will not do. You must accept. Tad, tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet, samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham [MU 1.2.12]. These are the injunctions of the Vedas.

So Arjuna accepted Krsna as spiritual master. In the beginning, he was talking like friend. Friend to friend, talking, sometimes it comes to nil, no conclusion, simply waste of time. It is called vitanda. That sort of argument has no value. Because it will never come into conclusion. But when we talk with authority, the spiritual master, representative of Krsna, then we cannot argue. We have to accept. Guru-vakya. Guru-vakya, you cannot deny it. It may not be agreeable to you in the beginning, but you cannot deny it. That is it: system of Vedic system. Here Arjuna has accepted Krsna as the spiritual master. Sisyas te aham. "I become Your disciple. Because we were talking till now as friends, but this will not decide the case. My case is very serious. My duty is to fight, but I do not like to fight. Some affection, some family relationship, is deterring me to fight, making me coward. So therefore it is a very complex position. And I find that You can make a solution of this complex position. I therefore accept You as my spiritual master. And I fall down under Your lotus feet as Your disciple." Sadhi mam prapannam. "I am surrendered. Now You kindly protect the surrendered soul."

So here Krsna is instructing. First of all, He chastised Arjuna: asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg. 2.11]. "My dear Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned man, but I find that you do not know in which case you have to lament and in which case you have to joyful. That you do not know." Gatasun agatasums ca nanusocanti panditah. Indirectly, He said that "You are not pandita; you are a fool. Because you are arguing in this way that ‘If I kill my brothers, their wives will be widow, and they will become prostitute and there will be varna-sankara.' " These questions are very nice. If women become prostitute, then the population is varna-sankara. And varna-sankara means unwanted children. They become practically nuisance in the society. Narakayate. If varna-sankara population is increased, then the whole society becomes a hell. That's a fact. Actually, that is the position at the present moment. Therefore, according to the Vedic system, marriage is there. Without marriage, the population, increase of population, means varna-sankara.

So these things were discussed, but that was not the main case. The main case was whether Arjuna was to fight and to kill the other party. He was thinking very seriously. So Krsna in the beginning said that: "You are lamenting on the point that your brothers, your grandfather, they will die." That is the general impression of the people, that "I die, you die." But Bhagavad-gita says, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Nobody dies, even after the destruction of this body. This is the beginning of that instruction. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire. We are eternal. Nityah sasvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Now where is the knowledge? We are traveling all over the world. We have never seen any university or any department of knowledge where this technique is instructed, na hanyate hanyamane sarire. There is no such instruction. So just try to understand, in the name of education, how people are placed in ignorance. They are thinking that hanyamane sarire, hanyate. After killing the body, the body's finished, the man is finished. I was talking with a big professor in Moscow, Professor Kotovsky. He said: "Swamiji, after destruction of this body, there is nothing more. Everything is finished." So just see, a big professor, a responsible person, he has no knowledge about the soul, what is soul, what is body. He's superficially, he is studying that after this body is finished, everything's finished. But that is not the fact. And persons who do not know this fact, they are becoming leaders, they are becoming educators, they are becoming spiritual master, and so on. So how these people will be in knowledge? Because those who are teaching them, they are in ignorance. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah. One blind man is leading so many blind men. So where is the education?

Here is the beginning of education, real education. What Krsna says. I have already explained that... (aside:) Why they are talking? I have already explained that our process of accepting knowledge is the parampara system. Avaroha-pantha. There are two ways of acquiring knowledge, aroha-pantha and avaroha-pantha. Knowledge coming from the authorities, that is perfect knowledge. And knowledge acquired by experimental knowledge, that is not perfect. Because we are imperfect. Suppose a big professor, just like that Russian Professor Kotovsky, they are trying to understand things by so-called inductive process, or aroha-pantha, going up by one's speculation, by speculative method. But our process of knowledge, Vedic process of knowledge: tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Their knowledge should be taken from the authority. Do not manufacture knowledge. Because how you can manufacture perfect knowledge? You are imperfect. Your senses are imperfect. You are defective in four ways. You are... To err is human. You must commit mistake. You must be illusioned. Your senses are imperfect, and you have got a cheating propensity. These four defects are there. Those who are not liberated, mukta-purusa, they have got four defects. What is that? He must commit mistake. Just like we can give you instance: Our Mahatma Gandhi, he was so great personality, but he also committed so many mistakes. Even on the day of his death, it is heard that he was forbidden not to go the meeting. The other persons, they scented some danger, but he forcibly went there and he was killed. So mistake, committing mistake. To err is human. That is not fault. That is our habit. We commit mistake. And we also, we are illusioned. Illusioned. Just like I am not this body. I am spirit soul. Aham brahmasmi. But we are giving identification with this body. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brahmana," "I am sudra." So this is illusion. So to commit mistake and to become illusioned and cheating propensity. Actually, I do not know things as they are, still, I am writing books. To educate people. Big, big scholars, they have no clear thought, clear understanding; still they write books. Even Darwin's theory. He's proposing, "Perhaps; it may be," and he's writing a big book, anthropology. And people are taking knowledge from that book. So if his knowledge based on "Perhaps; maybe," what is the value of that knowledge? So things are going on like that. The senses are imperfect. He has got a cheating propensity. Cheating propensity means he has no perfect knowledge; still, he wants to give knowledge, to become famous in the world, famous in the community. So what is the value of your writing books if you have no perfect knowledge? But because we have got a cheating propensity, we do like that. So Vedic knowledge is not like that. There is no cheating. There is no imperfection. There is no illusion. There is no error. That is Vedic knowledge.

So there... The author of Vedic knowledge... Who is the author of the Vedic knowledge? Not Lord Brahma. The author of Vedic knowledge is Krsna. As it is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye muhyanti yat surayah. He imparted the knowledge, brahma, sabda-brahma knowledge, into the heart of Lord Brahma. So Brahma is not self-sufficient. Factually, we are supposed to get knowledge, Vedic knowledge, from Brahma, beginning from Brahma. But actually it is not the, from Brahma. Brahma got the knowledge from Krsna. Tene brahma. Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya. Janmady asya yatah anvayat itaratas ca arthesu abhijnah svarat tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye muhyanti yat surayah [SB 1.1.1]. So actually knowledge is coming from Krsna. So our proposal is, we are receiving knowledge, this Bhagavad-gita, Krsna is directly giving you the knowledge. So we have to accept it as it is. We cannot interpret Bhagavad-gita in my own way. That is not Bhagavad-gita. That is something else. They take advantage of the Bhagavad-gita and put their own conclusion. That is not Bhagavad-gita. If you want to study Bhagavad-gita, then you have to study as it is. Then it is nice.

In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Aham adir hi devanam [Bg. 10.2]. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8], mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te, nanyat parataram [Bg. 7.14]. So these are the statements in the Bhagavad-gita. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If we do not accept Bhagavad-gita in terms of the statements given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then it is useless. It is simply waste of time. You cannot make any commentary of your poor knowledge. There is nothing very difficult to understand in the Bhagavad-gita. It is written in very simple Sanskrit word, and things are very clear. As clear as the sunlight. Where is the question of showing the sunlight or the sun-god with your lamp? Suppose now here is sunlight, sufficient light. We can see the sun and everything very clearly. If somebody brings some lamp and says, "Now I shall show you what is sun," it is useless. Bhagavad-gita is clear itself. Just like the sunlight. It does not require any lamp-bearer to show the Bhagavad-gita or Krsna. It does not require. You try to see Bhagavad-gita as it is. Then you will be benefited. Otherwise, you'll be misled.

Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gita it is said, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre samaveta yuyutsavah, mamakah pandavas caiva kim akurvata sanjaya [Bg. 1.1]. It is very clear. Dharma-ksetre. Kuruksetra is dharma-ksetra. Still. There is Kuruksetra. All of you know. And it is dharma-ksetra. People go for pilgrimage. And in the Vedas also it is stated that kuru-ksetre dharmam acaret. One should go to Kuruksetra and perform religious rituals there. So it is dharma-ksetra by Vedic version, by practical example. Dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg. 1.1]. But somebody's interpreting Kuruksetra as this body. From which dictionary he can get this meaning, that Kuruksetra means this body? This kind of interpretation is going on. But our proposition is that if you want to be benefited by reading Bhagavad-gita, don't read such malinterpretation. Read Bhagavad-gita as it is. Then you will be benefited. Kuru-ksetre dharma-ksetre. It is a fact. Kuruksetra is dharma-ksetra. Samaveta yuyutsavah: [Bg. 1.1] And the persons assembled there, namely, the Pandavas and the Kauravas, they wanted to fight. Yuyutsavah. That's all right. Where is the interpretation? They wanted to fight. They selected a nice place, dharma-ksetra, Kuruksetra, and there they fought. So it is, meaning is clear. Why there should be interpretation that "The Pandava means the five senses and the Kuruksetra means this body"? Why? Why? Where is the necessity of such interpretation? Interpretation is required where things are not clear. Actually, we do interpret. Just like in the law court, if some clause is not very clear, the lawyers interpret: "It may be like this, it may be like that." But when the things are clear, there is no question of interpretation. That is the system. Amongst the scholars, if things are clear, there should be no interpretation.

So Bhagavad-gita, in each and every verse, the things are very, very clear, as clear as the sunshine. So there is no question of interpretation. Our, this publication of Bhagavad-gita, we have therefore mentioned: Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Because there are six hundred and forty different editions of Bhagavad-gita, and almost every one of them has got a different interpretation. That is the system going on now. Therefore, before me, many persons, many swamis, went to Western countries and they presented Bhagavad-gita in their own way, but not a single person became a devotee of Krsna. Throughout the whole history. Now Bhagavad-gita is being presented as it is, and thousands of them are becoming devotee of Krsna. Practical. Thousands of them. The simple thing. I presented Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and they accepted it, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and by following the principles, within the four years, so many devotees of Krsna have come out. Because there was no adulteration. So our request is try to understand Bhagavad-gita without adulteration. Try to understand Bhagavad-gita as it is presented. Then you will get knowledge. Otherwise, you will remain in the same ignorance, before reading Bhagavad-gita and after reading Bhagavad-gita. This is our proposal.

Here Krsna says that dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Dehi, deha. Deha means this body, and dehi means the owner of the body. There is the owner of the body. Now, modern scientists, modern philosophers, hardly they do know that there is a proprietor, owner of this body. This body is not the person. The person is within. Asmin dehe. Within this body, there is the proprietor of the body, soul. Asmin dehe. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Now kaumaram yauvanam jara. The changes that are taking place, it is not of the owner of the body, but it is of the outward, external body. Just like if you live in a house. The house becoming older, it does not become, does not mean you are becoming older. The owner of the house does not become deteriorated. It is a crude example. Similarly, the changes, difference, the different types of body, the soul is migrating, transmigrating through different types of body.

Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. There are 8,400,000 forms of body, and the living entity is transmigrating from one body to another, one body to another, one body to another. This is the evolution. Darwin's evolution theory is misplaced. Here is real... As it is stated in the Padma Purana: asatims caturams caiva laksams tan jiva-jatisu. The evolutionary theory is there in the Padma Purana. Asatims caturams caiva laksams tan jiva-jatisu. Jiva-jati. There are different forms of living entities, and they are 8,400,000. That is clearly stated. So one has to pass through from the beginning. Jalaja nava-laksani. Nine hundred thousand species of aquatics. So in this way, when we come to the human form of body, it is very rarely obtained. Manusam durlabham janma. It is very rarely obtained. Therefore, it should be very properly utilized. In the human form of life one should try to understand that he's not this body. He must know that "I am Brahman. I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God." That is the beginning of teaching of Bhagavad-gita.

Krsna says, dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. As the soul, dehi, is passing through different types of body, even in this life... First of all, he gets a small body within the womb of the mother. Just like a pea. And that pea changes into another form, another form, another form. Then when the form is complete with hands and legs, it comes out. Then again changes from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. In this way, the living entity is changing the body. Not that the living entity itself is changing. It is changing simply body, according to the necessity. That is explained here. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. The point was to convince Arjuna that "Do not be bereaved because your grandfather will change the body. Your grandfather has got now old body." So He was giving the logic: "Now, if your grandfather is killed, why you are lamenting? He'll get a fresh, new body, another childhood body. Then he'll grow. You should, rather, become joyful that ‘My old grandfather is going to have a new body of childhood, boyhood, youthhood.' So..." That was the argument. But the actual education is that we should not identify ourself with this body. That is ignorance. Unless we understand "I am Brahman. I am spirit soul," there is no advancement of education.

Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gita you'll find, when one realizes that he's not this body, he's Brahman, spirit soul, at that time: brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. When one becomes brahma-bhuta [SB 4.30.20], self-realized, that "I am not this body," at that time, one becomes jubilant, prasannatma. Actually, we are suffering, being identified with this body. Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14]. All our trouble.... Actually, it is so. The whole world is complete, but because we have identified with this body, we are thinking, "We are American," "We are Indian," "We are Englishman," "We Are German," "Russian," and we have demarcated: "This is my country," "This is my country," "This is my country." Therefore, there is so much fight. For example, just like Pakistan; twenty years before, there was no Pakistan. Now it is demarcated: "This is Pakistan," and there is fight. So if you want actually peace and prosperity in the world, then you must come to the Krsna consciousness movement. Otherwise, there is no possibility. Without coming to Krsna consciousness... Now, we, in the bodily consciousness, or national consciousness or community consciousness, you cannot become happy. At any time. You have to become brahma-bhuta [SB 4.30.20]. That is Krsna consciousness. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. You'll be happy. Others will be happy. Without coming to that stage, you cannot be happy.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is very important movement. We are trying to educate people to feel, or to understand clearly that he's not this body; he's spirit soul. And at the present moment, all our activities are going on on the bodily concept of life. That is called ignorance. Mudha. Na mam prapadyante mudhah duskrtino naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. Krsna says. Because one is under the bodily concept of life, his interest has become on the ground of this body. In other places also it is said, na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. Because they are in..., under the bodily concept of life, they do not know what is their self-interest. One does not know actually what is his self-interest. His self-interest is to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is his self-interest. But he does not know. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. Durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninah. He's trying to adjust things on the external bodily concept of life. And the so-called leaders are leading in that way. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah. They remain in the same condition. The actual fact is that. We are trying to be happy by political adjustment, but our mistaken point is that "I am this body." Therefore, the leaders are changing, but the improvement is not there. The same fight, the same antagonism, same barking like dogs and cats, going on. Because everything is built up on the bodily concept of life. They're... Not to speak of others, the first-class men, of all nations, they assemble in the United Nations, in New York. We see, generally. There was simply flag increasing. There are hundreds and thousand of flags. This nation, that nation, that nation. Where is unity? The unity means increasing flags. That's all. There was no Pakistani flag. Now there is Pakistani flag. There is Sikhastani flag. This flag, that flag. But we cannot see that we are one. That can be possible only by advancement of Krsna consciousness. Not on the bodily consciousness. Here you'll find there are boys from America, from England, from Canada, from Africa, from Australia, but they're not thinking in terms of that "He's Indian, American, Australian, this and that." They are thinking in terms of Krsna consciousness. Every one of us, we are thinking we are servant of Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- Hyderabad, November 19, 1972

"We Are All Servants"

"We Are All Servants"

72/11/18 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 2.13



Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.)

Prabhupada:

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

The Second Chapter is the summary study of the Bhagavad-gita. The First Chapter is the preparatory study of Bhagavad-gita, and the Second Chapter is the summary study of the contents of Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita means the song sung by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Bhagavata. From the word bhagavata, we speak Bhagavan. Bhagavan, here, in the Bhagavad-gita you'll find everywhere: sri bhagavan uvaca. So it is the science of understanding God. Yad vijnana-samanvitam. Jnanam te pravaksyami yad vijnana-samanvitam. It is a vijnana. Vijnana means science. As everything is understood thoroughly through a scientific process, similarly, if you want to know the science of God, then you have to adopt the process by which one can understand God. That process is described in the Bhagavad-gita: bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He says, "If anyone wants to understand Me, then he has to take the process of devotional service," not by the speculative process or by fruitive activities, or by yogic process, mystic yogic process. It is clearly stated. Not only in Bhagavad-gita. In all other Vedic scripture.

athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-
prasada-lesanugrhita eva hi
janati tattvam bhagavan-mahimno
na canya eko 'pi ciram vicinvan

One can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead by His mercy only. Athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-prasada-lesanugrhita eva hi. Anyone who has received a small particle of the prasadam, mercy of the Lord, he can understand the Lord. Nobody can understand the Lord perfectly. It is not possible because the Lord is unlimited. We have got our senses very limited. Our senses are not only limited, but also imperfect. We commit illusion. We try to cheat. So many defects are there. Therefore simply by exercising our senses it is not possible to understand God.

So to know God, "God is very good, God is great," that is another thing. The science of God... Just like Bhagavad-gita, by studying Bhagavad-gita, we know not only "God is great," but we see what kind of God He is, what is His form. Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah. We have heard in the sastras that

isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
[Bs. 5.1]

Now that isvara, sac-cid-ananda-vigraha, how He appears sac-ci d-ananda-vigraha? Those who are present, of course, they saw the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha, but because not all of them were devotees, they could not understand Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam [Bg. 9.11]. Because He appeared just like a human being, so mudhas... Mudhas means less intelligent, or, in plain word, asses. Mudha means ass. So this class of men could not understand Krsna, that He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the defect of the mudhas. They may be very great scholars, academic scholar, but in the matter of understanding God, they're mudhas, asses. Why? Mayaya apahrta-jnana asuram bhavam asritah [Bg. 7.15]. At the present moment, people are mostly asuram bhavam asritah. Asuri, asuri bhava means to defy God: "There is no God. God is dead. I am God. You are God. So many Gods are loitering in the street. Why you are finding out God?" These are so many statements. So God has become so cheap. There are so many incarnations of God, especially in India. It is a breeding ground of Gods, so many. So that is, means they do not know what is God. Mudha. They think God is so cheap thing. But from the sastra we understand, from Bhagavad-gita we understand... When Krsna was asked by Arjuna, "How You are controlling the whole cosmology, Your vibhuti, Your power, energies?" So Krsna explained, and the, at last, He concluded,

athava bahunaitena
kim jnatena tavarjuna
vistabhyaham idam krtsnam
ekamsena sthito jagat
[Bg. 10.42]

"The whole cosmology, material world, is just sustained by My partial manifestation of energies." Ekamsena. This material cosmology, material manifestation, is one fourth demonstration of God's energy. The three-fourths manifestation of His energy is the spiritual world. Paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah [Bg. 8.20]. There is another nature which is spiritual nature, para, superior. The spiritual nature is described as para. Para means beyond this apara. There are two energies working, material nature and spiritual nature. Material nature, it is described in the Bhagavad-gita: bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva bhinna me prakrtir astadha [Bg. 7.4]. These eight types of material nature -- earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and ego -- these are material nature. Bhinna prakrtir astadha. They are separated energies. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param. Beyond this. These are inferior, apara. And beyond this apara-prakrti, there is another, superior prakrti. What is that? Jiva-bhutam maha-baho yayedam dharyate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. That is the living entity.

So living entity, living being, is energy of the Supreme Lord. Energy. Just like the sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of the sun globe. Similarly, we living entities, we are also energies of the Supreme Lord. What is this sunshine? It is a combination of a very small shining particles, molecular. That is sunshine. It looks like one homogeneous thing, but they are small particles. That is scientific understanding. Similarly, we are also a small particle of the Supreme Lord. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. We are a small particle. How much small? What is the magnitude? That is also described in the sastra. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca, jiva-bhago sa vijneyah sa anantyaya kalpate [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. There is dimension of the living entity -- one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So it is very difficult with our, these material eyes. We are very much proud of our eyes. But here is the indication from the sastra, the length and breadth of the living soul. Now, you find out, with your eyes, your microscope. That is not possible. Because they cannot find out, they say, nirakara. Nirakara. In one sense, it can be supported that we cannot ascertain the forms of the soul. And what, how we can ascertain the form of the Lord? Anor aniyan mahato mahiyan.

So spiritual education means, spiritual enlightenment means, first of all, we must try to understand the jiva. Because jiva is the small particle of the Lord. So that we can understand the quality of the Lord. Just like if you test a small particle of gold, then you can understand the composition of gold. If you test a little drop of water from the ocean, you can analyze the chemical composition of the sea. Similarly, if you can analyze the characteristics of the living entity, then you can at least understand what is God, what is the characteristics of God. Therefore the beginning of spiritual education is to understand one's self, this self-realization. How to realize self? We have to take knowledge from others. Knowledge means..., to acquire knowledge, to learn from the teacher. So here is the supreme teacher, Krsna. Krsna is accepted as the supreme teacher by everyone, by all the great sages formerly, like Vyasadeva, Narada, Devala, Asita. All other great sages. And recently, in the modern age, by our acaryas, Sri Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Ramanuja, yes, Sankaracarya, Visnusvami. All these great sages, great acaryas, they came from your South India. So you are fortunate in that sense. So we have to follow the acaryas. All these acaryas accept Krsna, the Supreme Lord. All these acaryas. And later, lately, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, five hundred years ago, He also accepted that Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. That is the acceptance in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Similarly, Lord Brahma also accepted Krsna:

isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
[Bs. 5.1]

So we have got so many evidences. So we have to accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no doubt about it. But why people do not accept? Why are so many big, big scholars and big, big scientists, why they do not accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead? That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, how these people do not accept. The statement is there:

na mam duskrtino mudhah
prapadyante naradhamah
mayayapahrta-jnana
asuram bhavam asritah
[Bg. 7.15]

Those who are duskrtina, sinful, duskrtina... Krti means meritorious, and dus means..., means miscreants, meritorious for mischief-making. We, everyone has got merit. The mischief-maker, he has also got merit, but one who uses his merit for mischief-making... Just like a great rogue, a thief. When he steals, he requires brain. So he's applying his brain, how to steal tactfully, how to become a great rogue tactfully. How to become a smuggler... They require also brain. So the brain is being misused for mischievous activities. They are called miscreants, duskrtina. So those who are duskrtina... Na mam prapadyante, na mam duskrtino mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. One class is duskrtina and the other class is mudha. Mudha means less intelligence, or no intelligence. na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah. And naradhama means the lowest of the mankind. And mayaya apahrta-jnanah, those whose knowledge have been taken by maya, asuram bhavam asritah. These classes of men do not surrender unto Krsna. We are not manufacturing these words. These words are in the Bhagavad-gita. If we study Bhagavad-gita, we have to accept the statements, Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita means the speeches which is delivered, or the song which is sung by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So our Krsna consciousness movement is to preach all over the world that krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. You are searching after God. You are taxing your brain so much. But in spite of taxing your brain, you say sometimes that "There is no God," or "God is dead," or "Everyone is God," and so on, so on. But our proposition is that why you are taxing your brain? Here is God. Here is God, Krsna. By authorities, by Vedic version, by His activities. If we read life of Krsna, we can see that He's Krsna, God, from the very beginning of His birth. God is not manufactured by some mystic power. God is God, and dog is dog. A dog cannot become God; God cannot become dog. That is the difference.

So Krsna was God from the very beginning. As soon as Krsna took birth, He appeared in four-handed Visnu-murti. But when He was prayed by His mother to become an ordinary child, He became an ordinary child with two hands. So that is God, from the very beginning. Not that, by attaining some mystic power, one can become God. You can have some power, godly... You have already power. Because we are, every one of us is a part and parcel of God. Therefore godly qualities are there. But you cannot become cent percent God. That is not possible. That is not possible. There, they..., they have been analyzed. All the demigods and living entities, they have been analyzed by great stalwart people, and it has been found that Krsna is cent percent God. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. Ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. All others... There are many other gods. Then gods means not the Supreme God. Isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1]. We are speaking of the paramah isvarah, or Paramesvara. There are two words: isvara, paramesvara; atma, paramatma. That param is God. We are Brahman; Parabrahman. So Parabrahman, Paramatma, Paramesvara, all these are applicable to Krsna. Just like Arjuna, after hearing Bhagavad-gita, he admitted, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan, purusam sasvatam adyam [Bg. 10.12]. That is the position of Krsna. Adi-purusam. Govindam adi-purusam. Krsna also says, in the Bhagavad-gita, aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]. Devanam, Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara... Then, after Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara, there are other demigods, Indra, Candra, Varuna, so many. So Krsna says, aham adir hi devanam. Aham sarvasya prabhavah. He's the origin of everything. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. "Everything emanates from Me." In the Vedanta-sutra also the Absolute Truth is described as janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates.

So here is Krsna. From sastric evidences, by His opulences, by His power... Because Bhagavan means full of six opulences. Aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasah sriyah (Visnu Purana 6.5.47). He must be the richest. He must be the strongest. He must be the most famous. He must be the most beautiful. He must be the great renouncer. In this way, that is the definition of God. So that definition is confirmed by Lord Brahma: isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1]. Isvara means controller. Unless one is powerful, how he can control? So every one of us is little, a small controller. Somebody controls in his office. Somebody controls in his family life. Somebody controls a few factories. There are controllers. But nobody can say that "I am the supreme controller." That is not possible. The supreme controller is Krsna.

So this Krsna consciousness movement means we are trying link up our connection with the supreme controller. We do not wish to become the controller. We want to be controlled -- but by the supreme controller, not by others. That is our proposition. Just like generally, one who is in service, he hankers after government service. Because it is natural conclusion that "If I have to serve somebody, why a petty merchant? Why not take government service?" So that is our proposition, that we have to serve. The... We cannot do but serve. Any one of us. That is our constitutional position. Any one of us, we are sitting here, we are servant. Every one of us is servant. So our proposition is that you are servant in any case. Why not become servant of God? That is our proposition. That is Krsna consciousness movement.

So kamadinam kati na katidha palita durnidesah. We are servant of our senses, kama-krodha-moha-matsarya, all these. By, dictated by our lusty desires, we do anything which is abominable. Tesam kati na katidha palita durnidesah. So we are servant, everyone. Therefore, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Our real constitutional position is that we are eternal servant of God, Krsna. That is our position. But in this material condition of life, every one of us is trying to become the master. That is the struggle for existence. Everyone is trying: "I shall become the master. I shall become the Supreme." But our position is servant. So this is called illusion. I am not master. I am servant. But I am trying to become master artificially. That is struggle for existence. And mukti means, liberation means, when you give up this wrong idea that "I am master," and try to become the servant of the Supreme. That is called liberation. Liberation does not mean that after liberation we'll have a big, gigantic form or so many hands, so many legs. Liberation means to become liberated from the wrong consciousness. That is liberation. The wrong consciousness is that "I am master." So we have to change this consciousness. That is Krsna consciousness movement. One has to understand thoroughly that he's not master. He's servant. He's completely dependent on the supreme will. If we do not surrender unto the supreme will, then we have to surrender unto the will of maya. We have to remain a servant. If we don't..., reject service, or servitude of the Supreme Lord, then we have to become the servant of the senses. That is maya. Actually, that is going on. The whole world is serving different types of senses. Senses are one, the same, but they have got different desires. So they are servant of different desires.

Now the Krsna consciousness movement is... It is not manufactured by us. We get it from Bhagavad-gita: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Krsna says that "You give up all these nonsense desires. You surrender unto Me." That is the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gita. We are dictated by different types of desires, which is dictated by maya, and we want to become master falsely. This is called illusion. This is called maya. Actually, you are not master. How we can become master? Because we may be very scientifically advanced. We may manufacture very wonderful machine and weapon, but after all, we are subjected to the rules of maya: janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. You cannot get out of these four principles of maya's machinery janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi. Therefore the sane man, who is actually learned, he surrenders to Krsna. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Actually when one becomes wise, he surrenders to Krsna. Jnanavan mam prapadyate. Otherwise, who is Krsna? "I am as good as Krsna. I am God." That is maya. That is not actually knowledge. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said, ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah. They are thinking that they have become liberated, become Narayana, or God. Maninah, they are thinking like that. Actually, they are not, because they're subjected to the rules of the material nature. They cannot get out of these clutches. Who can get out of these clutches? Mam eva ye prapadyante. Krsna says, "Anyone who surrenders unto Me..."

daivi hy esa gunamayi
mama maya duratyaya
mam eva ye prapadyante
mayam etam taranti te
[Bg. 7.14]

So therefore this Krsna consciousness movement is very pious movement, the most, the most glorious welfare activities. And we are preaching this movement all over the world. Just to place Krsna... Our only ambition is that to place Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is our proposition. We don't want to become Krsna, but we want to become the most obedient servant of Krsna. That is our proposition. So we invite everyone, from all parts of the world, and they are coming, they are joining. So in India Krsna appeared. India has got a special advantage to understand Krsna, and the Indians neglect it. That's a great misfortune, but we request everyone to join this movement, study the philosophy and become happy. That is our proposition. Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. [break]

Indian: ...gavad-gita that the atma and jivatma is the same vision, and Brahman or Parabrahman is the same. And in knowledge of soul truth, the atma is the part and parcel of the Paramatma, that is the Supreme Lord, and this contradiction in this, I think, that how the atma and Paramatma is both one? Containing both, if the atma is part and parcel of the Paramatma, and when they, the atma and the great and Paramatma, is different. Because is contradiction in the understanding may accept what the Vedas say and what Bhagavad-gita say? Is there any difference between the Vedas and Bhagavad-gita? Are we following Vedas, or are we following Bhagavad-gita? Because the Bhagavad-gita is only song of Lord Krsna; the Vedas are the pure knowledge of Parabrahman.

Prabhupada: So why you are going away? You hear. You hear. Vedas... The... In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah: [Bg. 15.15] "All the Vedas and Vedantas, they are meant for understanding Krsna." If by studying Vedas and Vedanta you cannot understand Krsna, then it is srama eva hi kevalam. It is simply labor. That is the adjustment of Bhagavad-gita and all other Vedic literature. Vedas means... Veda means knowledge, and anta means ultimate. That is called Vedanta. So ultimate knowledge is to know God. You may not accept Krsna. Although all the acaryas... I have already mentioned. Even Sankaracarya, he also accept Krsna: sa bhagavan svayam krsna. So the Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, they have all accepted Krsna: the ultimate knowledge of Vedic understanding. Many acaryas, they have written notes on Vedanta, targeting Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have to follow the footprints of the great stalwart acaryas. Acaryopasanam. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If we follow the footprints of the acaryas, then we find there is no distinction between Vedanta and Bhagavad-gita. Vedanta, you might be referring to the Vedanta-sutra of Sankaracarya, but all the acaryas, the have written notes on Vedanta. Srimad-Bhagavatam is the original comment on Vedanta. Srimad-Bhagavatam begins with the Vedanta-sutra: janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. So Vedanta does not mean godlessness. Vedanta means to know God. That is real study of Vedanta.

Syamasundara: He wanted to know what is the difference between Paramatma and atma.

Prabhupada: Paramatma and atma, it is not very difficult to know. Just like you are father and you have got many children at home. So they, because they are children, they are, I mean to say, as ingredients, you and your children are the same, but still, you are superior, and the children are dependent. Your children are not different from you, but still, you are superior and they are inferior or junior. So qualitatively one, but quantitatively different. So quantitatively different -- atma, Paramatma; and qualitatively one -- atma is spirit, Paramatma is spirit. It is called acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different. One in quality, different in quantity. You can create. You are also qualitatively one with God. You have got creative power. Just like we are creating this flying machine, sputniks. That is also flying in the sky, and the Paramatma has created the millions of planets floating in the sky. So you have got the creative power, but you cannot create like that, Paramatma. That is the difference. Can you?

Indian: My question was very simple.

Prabhupada: Yes. The answer is also very simple. Paramatma is great. You are small. That's all.

Indian: But whether the, our atma is the part and parcel of the atma, Paramatma.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian: Paramatma is entirely different from the atma and...

Prabhupada: That I will explain. In quality, you are one. Because a particle of gold is also gold. But the gold mine is not equal to the gold earring. That is mistake.

Indian: They say atma is the Paramatma.

Various Indians: Not, not, the... Not the whole.

Prabhupada: Not the... One is great. Another is small. That is the difference. Quality is the same.

Indian: That means Paramatma and the atma...

Prabhupada: Quality same.

Indian: Quality same

Prabhupada: Quantity different.

Indian: But the atma, it is functioning in the body.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian: Is, according to the Paramatma, it is entirely different from the Paramatma.

Prabhupada: According to the Paramatma.

Indian: Every, our action is according to the Paramatma.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian: So why do you abuse one person to other person?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian: Why a person,...

Prabhupada: Yes?

Indian: ...to abuse other person, he says many things...

Prabhupada: But you should remember that you are in quality Paramatma. So Paramatma has got supreme independence. You have got little independence also. You, when you misuse that little independence, you create havoc.

Indian: Who is responsible for the creation of this...?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian: Who is responsible for the creation of this material...?

Prabhupada: Well, responsible... Just like father creates children. But if he becomes a thief, does it, does it mean the father is responsible? What is your idea?

Indian: The children. (?)

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian: The children... But He's the big father. (?)

Prabhupada: Father creates children, but a child becomes a rogue. Does it mean the father creates a rogue?

Indian: No, the thievery is on account of bad...

Prabhupada: That is, that is the... Karanam guna-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu [Bg. 13.22]. You are independent. You can associate with different qualities of nature, and then your character is spoiled. That is your independence. Here God's instruction is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. You do not abide by that. You create your own independence. Therefore you suffer. Father says, "My dear boy, do like this. You'll be happy." But he does in a different way. Who is responsible, the father or the son?

Indian: Supposing... If independence is equal in...

Prabhupada: If you, if you work according to the instruction of God, then you'll be happy. That is our proposition.

Indian: No, my question is..., difference between the service to the human being and the service to...

Prabhupada: Just like if you water on the leaf, and if you water on the root, which is better?

Indian: The root.

Prabhupada: That's it. But if you water the leaf, means you waste your time. Because by watering the leaf, you cannot make the tree living. Similarly, the sastra says that water on the root. Yatha taror mula-nisecanena trpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopasakhah [SB 4.31.14]. If you water the root, automatically the branches, the twigs, the leaves, they become invigorated. But if you water the leaf, you simply you think that you are doing service, but you are doing nothing. Chant Hare Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- Hyderabad, November 18, 1972