"Not One Became Devotee"
72/11/19 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 2.13
Prabhupada: ...tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. We began this verse yesterday. This is the criterion of understanding spiritual life. People generally do not understand that there is another element beyond this body. Generally, people, they are under the impression that "I am this body. I am Indian." Why I am Indian? Because this body's born in India. Therefore, I'm Indian. "I am American." Why? "Because body is born in America; therefore I am American." Similarly, this dehatma-buddhih, bodily concept of life, is going on all over the world. This is ignorance, ajnana. This is called ajnana. Jnana and ajnana. Jnana means one who knows that he is not this body. He's spirit soul. Aham brahmasmi. (aside:) (about microphone) It is... Little strong make it, yes. So when one is freed from the bodily concept of life, he called jnani. Otherwise, ajnani. They are so much proud of jnana. In our India, there are so-called Mayavadis. They think of themselves as jnani-sampradaya. What is that jnani? "I am Hindu. I am Indian. I am sannyasi." This is their jnana. But actually it is ajnana. If you think yourself that you are Indian, if you think yourself as Hindu, if you think yourself as brahmana, if you think yourself as a sudra, then you are ajnani. You are not jnani. Because you are giving your identification... (aside, about microphone:) Why it is stopped? If you are giving your identification on the ground of your body, then you are ajnani. Jnani means pandita. Panditah sama-darsinah.
vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
[Bg. 5.18]
Actually, who is jnani, who is pandita, he will not see: "Here is an Indian. Here is an American. Here is an Hindu. Here is a Muslim," or "Here is a cat. Here is a dog." No Because he will see not the outward bodily identification. Just like while I am talking with you, because your dress is white, and because my dress is saffron colored, it does not mean that we are different. Simply on the ground of dress, if we think we are different, then that is ajnana. Nobody does so. When a gentleman talks with another gentleman, none of them consider that "I am this dress." Similarly, if I consider about, about my identification on the ground of this dress, then am I not ajnani? Yes, I am ajnani. I do not know my identification.
Therefore sastra says, yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who is identifying himself with this body, which is made of tri-dhatu... Tri-dhatu means kapha-pitta-vayu. According to Ayur Veda system, this body is a combination of kapha-pitta-vayu, mucus, bile, and air. So sastra says, yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. If anyone identifies himself with this bag of kapha-pitta-vayu, a bunch of bones and flesh and blood and stool, sva-dhih kalatradisu, and his own kinsmen, his wife and children, sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih, and worship, worshipable is the land, bhauma, yat-tirtha-buddhih salile, one who goes to the place of pilgrimage and takes the water as all in all, yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij janesu abhijnesu, but does not go to the actual learned saintly persons, sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13], such person is no better than cow and ass. This is the injunction of the sastra, that our identification with the body is animal life. The animal, a dog, it knows that he is body. A cat knows that he is body. A tiger knows that he is body. A human being, also, if he knows like that, that he is body, then why, how he's advanced? He's no better than the cats and dogs. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih [SB 10.84.13]. The whole world is going on on this misimpression, misidentification with the body. Therefore, there is fight between one nation to another, one man to another, and so many...
So jnani means one must be above this bodily concept of life. He's jnani. Therefore to become jnani, the first instruction, as Krsna is giving to Arjuna, He's pointing out that "You are not this body. My dear Arjuna. You are decline, declining to fight, because you are bodily infected. You are thinking that your bodily, blood relation with the other party, namely your brother, nephews and others, that is wrong conception. You are not this body." Because Arjuna surrendered to Krsna: sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. When he was puzzled in the battlefield of Kuruksetra, he thought it wise to accept Krsna not as his friend, his friend, but at the same time, he accepted Him as his spiritual master. Sisyas te' ham sadhi mam prapannam. And the duty of the disciple is to fully surrender unto the spiritual master. Unless you can surrender, (you) do not accept anyone as spiritual master. If you want the spiritual master to abide by your order, then that acceptance of spiritual master is a farce. It is not acceptance. Acceptance of spiritual master means that one should surrender unto the spiritual master. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34]. If you want to learn that transcendental science, tad viddhi, you try to understand. How? Pranipatena. Prakrsta-rupena nipata. Fully surrendering, falling flat. "Sir, I surrender unto you." Pranipatena pariprasnena. And then inquire question.
According to our Vedic principle, nobody has got the right to question anyone unless that person is accepted as spiritual master. Otherwise, it is waste of time. Spiritual... If you want to question somebody, you must accept his answer. You cannot argue. That is acceptance of authority. Just like in Vedas, whatever injunctions are there, we accept it without any argument. That is Vedic instruction. People sometimes say: "Is it Vedic instruction, that I have to accept it without argument?" Actually, that is Vedic instruction. Just like, for example, the Vedas says cow dung is pure. Now actually we are accepting, those who are following the Vedic principles, they accept cow dung as pure. Actually, it is pure. But if we argue: "How is that, that animal stool is impure, even human stool is impure. How cow dung, which is stool of another animal, is pure?" It is contrary. But actually, we accept. Actually we accept. Similarly, conchshell, conchshell is nothing but bone of an animal. According to our Vedic version, if you touch the bone of an animal, you become immediately impure. You have to take bath. But this bone of animal, conchshell, is taken to the Deity room. It is so pure. So from our human consciousness we find contradiction in the Vedic instruction, that in the Vedas, in one place, it says that the bone of an animal is impure; in another place says the bone of a particular animal is pure. The Vedas says the stool of an animal is impure, but in another place it says that the stool of the cow animal is pure. So apparently we find contradiction. But still, because we accept the authority of the Vedas, therefore we accept the statement also. We accept the bone of the conchshell, and we accept the stool of cow as pure. That is acceptance of authority. You cannot argue. Even though it appears it is contradictory, you cannot argue.
Similarly, acceptance of spiritual master means representative of God. Of course, he, he must be representative of God. If unfortunately I accept a bogus man as representative of..., that is my misfortune. But actually, acceptance of spiritual master means he's a bona fide representative of God. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, you'll find. That parampara system, disciplic succession, acarya. Acaryavan puruso veda. Just like we accept our philosophy, Vaisnava philosophy, or any Indian philosophy, they accept this parampara, guru-parampara. They accept it. Sampradaya. Just like we have got samprada..., Ramanuja-sampradaya, Madhva-sampradaya. So we have to accept the sampradaya, disciplic succession, to receive real knowledge. So that sampradaya begins from Krsna. Krsna is the original spiritual master of Lord Brahma, of Lord Siva, Narada, so many other authorities. There are twelve authorities, svayambhur naradah sambhuh [SB 6.3.20]. Svayambhu means Lord Brahma; Narada; and Sambhu, Lord Siva; Kumara; Kapila; Manu. They are all authorities. So that is the indication of the sastra, that if you want to understand the transcendental science, the science of God, then tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is the injunction of the Vedas, that if you really interested to learn the transcendental science, you must approach. Abhigacchet. This is vidhilin. Vidhilin. This form of verb is used in Sanskrit grammar when it meant "You must." You cannot say "I may accept or may not accept." That will not do. You must accept. Tad, tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet, samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham [MU 1.2.12]. These are the injunctions of the Vedas.
So Arjuna accepted Krsna as spiritual master. In the beginning, he was talking like friend. Friend to friend, talking, sometimes it comes to nil, no conclusion, simply waste of time. It is called vitanda. That sort of argument has no value. Because it will never come into conclusion. But when we talk with authority, the spiritual master, representative of Krsna, then we cannot argue. We have to accept. Guru-vakya. Guru-vakya, you cannot deny it. It may not be agreeable to you in the beginning, but you cannot deny it. That is it: system of Vedic system. Here Arjuna has accepted Krsna as the spiritual master. Sisyas te aham. "I become Your disciple. Because we were talking till now as friends, but this will not decide the case. My case is very serious. My duty is to fight, but I do not like to fight. Some affection, some family relationship, is deterring me to fight, making me coward. So therefore it is a very complex position. And I find that You can make a solution of this complex position. I therefore accept You as my spiritual master. And I fall down under Your lotus feet as Your disciple." Sadhi mam prapannam. "I am surrendered. Now You kindly protect the surrendered soul."
So here Krsna is instructing. First of all, He chastised Arjuna: asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg. 2.11]. "My dear Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned man, but I find that you do not know in which case you have to lament and in which case you have to joyful. That you do not know." Gatasun agatasums ca nanusocanti panditah. Indirectly, He said that "You are not pandita; you are a fool. Because you are arguing in this way that ‘If I kill my brothers, their wives will be widow, and they will become prostitute and there will be varna-sankara.' " These questions are very nice. If women become prostitute, then the population is varna-sankara. And varna-sankara means unwanted children. They become practically nuisance in the society. Narakayate. If varna-sankara population is increased, then the whole society becomes a hell. That's a fact. Actually, that is the position at the present moment. Therefore, according to the Vedic system, marriage is there. Without marriage, the population, increase of population, means varna-sankara.
So these things were discussed, but that was not the main case. The main case was whether Arjuna was to fight and to kill the other party. He was thinking very seriously. So Krsna in the beginning said that: "You are lamenting on the point that your brothers, your grandfather, they will die." That is the general impression of the people, that "I die, you die." But Bhagavad-gita says, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Nobody dies, even after the destruction of this body. This is the beginning of that instruction. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire. We are eternal. Nityah sasvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Now where is the knowledge? We are traveling all over the world. We have never seen any university or any department of knowledge where this technique is instructed, na hanyate hanyamane sarire. There is no such instruction. So just try to understand, in the name of education, how people are placed in ignorance. They are thinking that hanyamane sarire, hanyate. After killing the body, the body's finished, the man is finished. I was talking with a big professor in Moscow, Professor Kotovsky. He said: "Swamiji, after destruction of this body, there is nothing more. Everything is finished." So just see, a big professor, a responsible person, he has no knowledge about the soul, what is soul, what is body. He's superficially, he is studying that after this body is finished, everything's finished. But that is not the fact. And persons who do not know this fact, they are becoming leaders, they are becoming educators, they are becoming spiritual master, and so on. So how these people will be in knowledge? Because those who are teaching them, they are in ignorance. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah. One blind man is leading so many blind men. So where is the education?
Here is the beginning of education, real education. What Krsna says. I have already explained that... (aside:) Why they are talking? I have already explained that our process of accepting knowledge is the parampara system. Avaroha-pantha. There are two ways of acquiring knowledge, aroha-pantha and avaroha-pantha. Knowledge coming from the authorities, that is perfect knowledge. And knowledge acquired by experimental knowledge, that is not perfect. Because we are imperfect. Suppose a big professor, just like that Russian Professor Kotovsky, they are trying to understand things by so-called inductive process, or aroha-pantha, going up by one's speculation, by speculative method. But our process of knowledge, Vedic process of knowledge: tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Their knowledge should be taken from the authority. Do not manufacture knowledge. Because how you can manufacture perfect knowledge? You are imperfect. Your senses are imperfect. You are defective in four ways. You are... To err is human. You must commit mistake. You must be illusioned. Your senses are imperfect, and you have got a cheating propensity. These four defects are there. Those who are not liberated, mukta-purusa, they have got four defects. What is that? He must commit mistake. Just like we can give you instance: Our Mahatma Gandhi, he was so great personality, but he also committed so many mistakes. Even on the day of his death, it is heard that he was forbidden not to go the meeting. The other persons, they scented some danger, but he forcibly went there and he was killed. So mistake, committing mistake. To err is human. That is not fault. That is our habit. We commit mistake. And we also, we are illusioned. Illusioned. Just like I am not this body. I am spirit soul. Aham brahmasmi. But we are giving identification with this body. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brahmana," "I am sudra." So this is illusion. So to commit mistake and to become illusioned and cheating propensity. Actually, I do not know things as they are, still, I am writing books. To educate people. Big, big scholars, they have no clear thought, clear understanding; still they write books. Even Darwin's theory. He's proposing, "Perhaps; it may be," and he's writing a big book, anthropology. And people are taking knowledge from that book. So if his knowledge based on "Perhaps; maybe," what is the value of that knowledge? So things are going on like that. The senses are imperfect. He has got a cheating propensity. Cheating propensity means he has no perfect knowledge; still, he wants to give knowledge, to become famous in the world, famous in the community. So what is the value of your writing books if you have no perfect knowledge? But because we have got a cheating propensity, we do like that. So Vedic knowledge is not like that. There is no cheating. There is no imperfection. There is no illusion. There is no error. That is Vedic knowledge.
So there... The author of Vedic knowledge... Who is the author of the Vedic knowledge? Not Lord Brahma. The author of Vedic knowledge is Krsna. As it is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye muhyanti yat surayah. He imparted the knowledge, brahma, sabda-brahma knowledge, into the heart of Lord Brahma. So Brahma is not self-sufficient. Factually, we are supposed to get knowledge, Vedic knowledge, from Brahma, beginning from Brahma. But actually it is not the, from Brahma. Brahma got the knowledge from Krsna. Tene brahma. Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya. Janmady asya yatah anvayat itaratas ca arthesu abhijnah svarat tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye muhyanti yat surayah [SB 1.1.1]. So actually knowledge is coming from Krsna. So our proposal is, we are receiving knowledge, this Bhagavad-gita, Krsna is directly giving you the knowledge. So we have to accept it as it is. We cannot interpret Bhagavad-gita in my own way. That is not Bhagavad-gita. That is something else. They take advantage of the Bhagavad-gita and put their own conclusion. That is not Bhagavad-gita. If you want to study Bhagavad-gita, then you have to study as it is. Then it is nice.
In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Aham adir hi devanam [Bg. 10.2]. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8], mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te, nanyat parataram [Bg. 7.14]. So these are the statements in the Bhagavad-gita. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If we do not accept Bhagavad-gita in terms of the statements given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then it is useless. It is simply waste of time. You cannot make any commentary of your poor knowledge. There is nothing very difficult to understand in the Bhagavad-gita. It is written in very simple Sanskrit word, and things are very clear. As clear as the sunlight. Where is the question of showing the sunlight or the sun-god with your lamp? Suppose now here is sunlight, sufficient light. We can see the sun and everything very clearly. If somebody brings some lamp and says, "Now I shall show you what is sun," it is useless. Bhagavad-gita is clear itself. Just like the sunlight. It does not require any lamp-bearer to show the Bhagavad-gita or Krsna. It does not require. You try to see Bhagavad-gita as it is. Then you will be benefited. Otherwise, you'll be misled.
Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gita it is said, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre samaveta yuyutsavah, mamakah pandavas caiva kim akurvata sanjaya [Bg. 1.1]. It is very clear. Dharma-ksetre. Kuruksetra is dharma-ksetra. Still. There is Kuruksetra. All of you know. And it is dharma-ksetra. People go for pilgrimage. And in the Vedas also it is stated that kuru-ksetre dharmam acaret. One should go to Kuruksetra and perform religious rituals there. So it is dharma-ksetra by Vedic version, by practical example. Dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg. 1.1]. But somebody's interpreting Kuruksetra as this body. From which dictionary he can get this meaning, that Kuruksetra means this body? This kind of interpretation is going on. But our proposition is that if you want to be benefited by reading Bhagavad-gita, don't read such malinterpretation. Read Bhagavad-gita as it is. Then you will be benefited. Kuru-ksetre dharma-ksetre. It is a fact. Kuruksetra is dharma-ksetra. Samaveta yuyutsavah: [Bg. 1.1] And the persons assembled there, namely, the Pandavas and the Kauravas, they wanted to fight. Yuyutsavah. That's all right. Where is the interpretation? They wanted to fight. They selected a nice place, dharma-ksetra, Kuruksetra, and there they fought. So it is, meaning is clear. Why there should be interpretation that "The Pandava means the five senses and the Kuruksetra means this body"? Why? Why? Where is the necessity of such interpretation? Interpretation is required where things are not clear. Actually, we do interpret. Just like in the law court, if some clause is not very clear, the lawyers interpret: "It may be like this, it may be like that." But when the things are clear, there is no question of interpretation. That is the system. Amongst the scholars, if things are clear, there should be no interpretation.
So Bhagavad-gita, in each and every verse, the things are very, very clear, as clear as the sunshine. So there is no question of interpretation. Our, this publication of Bhagavad-gita, we have therefore mentioned: Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Because there are six hundred and forty different editions of Bhagavad-gita, and almost every one of them has got a different interpretation. That is the system going on now. Therefore, before me, many persons, many swamis, went to Western countries and they presented Bhagavad-gita in their own way, but not a single person became a devotee of Krsna. Throughout the whole history. Now Bhagavad-gita is being presented as it is, and thousands of them are becoming devotee of Krsna. Practical. Thousands of them. The simple thing. I presented Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and they accepted it, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and by following the principles, within the four years, so many devotees of Krsna have come out. Because there was no adulteration. So our request is try to understand Bhagavad-gita without adulteration. Try to understand Bhagavad-gita as it is presented. Then you will get knowledge. Otherwise, you will remain in the same ignorance, before reading Bhagavad-gita and after reading Bhagavad-gita. This is our proposal.
Here Krsna says that dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Dehi, deha. Deha means this body, and dehi means the owner of the body. There is the owner of the body. Now, modern scientists, modern philosophers, hardly they do know that there is a proprietor, owner of this body. This body is not the person. The person is within. Asmin dehe. Within this body, there is the proprietor of the body, soul. Asmin dehe. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Now kaumaram yauvanam jara. The changes that are taking place, it is not of the owner of the body, but it is of the outward, external body. Just like if you live in a house. The house becoming older, it does not become, does not mean you are becoming older. The owner of the house does not become deteriorated. It is a crude example. Similarly, the changes, difference, the different types of body, the soul is migrating, transmigrating through different types of body.
Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. There are 8,400,000 forms of body, and the living entity is transmigrating from one body to another, one body to another, one body to another. This is the evolution. Darwin's evolution theory is misplaced. Here is real... As it is stated in the Padma Purana: asatims caturams caiva laksams tan jiva-jatisu. The evolutionary theory is there in the Padma Purana. Asatims caturams caiva laksams tan jiva-jatisu. Jiva-jati. There are different forms of living entities, and they are 8,400,000. That is clearly stated. So one has to pass through from the beginning. Jalaja nava-laksani. Nine hundred thousand species of aquatics. So in this way, when we come to the human form of body, it is very rarely obtained. Manusam durlabham janma. It is very rarely obtained. Therefore, it should be very properly utilized. In the human form of life one should try to understand that he's not this body. He must know that "I am Brahman. I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God." That is the beginning of teaching of Bhagavad-gita.
Krsna says, dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. As the soul, dehi, is passing through different types of body, even in this life... First of all, he gets a small body within the womb of the mother. Just like a pea. And that pea changes into another form, another form, another form. Then when the form is complete with hands and legs, it comes out. Then again changes from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. In this way, the living entity is changing the body. Not that the living entity itself is changing. It is changing simply body, according to the necessity. That is explained here. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. The point was to convince Arjuna that "Do not be bereaved because your grandfather will change the body. Your grandfather has got now old body." So He was giving the logic: "Now, if your grandfather is killed, why you are lamenting? He'll get a fresh, new body, another childhood body. Then he'll grow. You should, rather, become joyful that ‘My old grandfather is going to have a new body of childhood, boyhood, youthhood.' So..." That was the argument. But the actual education is that we should not identify ourself with this body. That is ignorance. Unless we understand "I am Brahman. I am spirit soul," there is no advancement of education.
Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gita you'll find, when one realizes that he's not this body, he's Brahman, spirit soul, at that time: brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. When one becomes brahma-bhuta [SB 4.30.20], self-realized, that "I am not this body," at that time, one becomes jubilant, prasannatma. Actually, we are suffering, being identified with this body. Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14]. All our trouble.... Actually, it is so. The whole world is complete, but because we have identified with this body, we are thinking, "We are American," "We are Indian," "We are Englishman," "We Are German," "Russian," and we have demarcated: "This is my country," "This is my country," "This is my country." Therefore, there is so much fight. For example, just like Pakistan; twenty years before, there was no Pakistan. Now it is demarcated: "This is Pakistan," and there is fight. So if you want actually peace and prosperity in the world, then you must come to the Krsna consciousness movement. Otherwise, there is no possibility. Without coming to Krsna consciousness... Now, we, in the bodily consciousness, or national consciousness or community consciousness, you cannot become happy. At any time. You have to become brahma-bhuta [SB 4.30.20]. That is Krsna consciousness. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. You'll be happy. Others will be happy. Without coming to that stage, you cannot be happy.
So this Krsna consciousness movement is very important movement. We are trying to educate people to feel, or to understand clearly that he's not this body; he's spirit soul. And at the present moment, all our activities are going on on the bodily concept of life. That is called ignorance. Mudha. Na mam prapadyante mudhah duskrtino naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. Krsna says. Because one is under the bodily concept of life, his interest has become on the ground of this body. In other places also it is said, na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. Because they are in..., under the bodily concept of life, they do not know what is their self-interest. One does not know actually what is his self-interest. His self-interest is to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is his self-interest. But he does not know. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. Durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninah. He's trying to adjust things on the external bodily concept of life. And the so-called leaders are leading in that way. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah. They remain in the same condition. The actual fact is that. We are trying to be happy by political adjustment, but our mistaken point is that "I am this body." Therefore, the leaders are changing, but the improvement is not there. The same fight, the same antagonism, same barking like dogs and cats, going on. Because everything is built up on the bodily concept of life. They're... Not to speak of others, the first-class men, of all nations, they assemble in the United Nations, in New York. We see, generally. There was simply flag increasing. There are hundreds and thousand of flags. This nation, that nation, that nation. Where is unity? The unity means increasing flags. That's all. There was no Pakistani flag. Now there is Pakistani flag. There is Sikhastani flag. This flag, that flag. But we cannot see that we are one. That can be possible only by advancement of Krsna consciousness. Not on the bodily consciousness. Here you'll find there are boys from America, from England, from Canada, from Africa, from Australia, but they're not thinking in terms of that "He's Indian, American, Australian, this and that." They are thinking in terms of Krsna consciousness. Every one of us, we are thinking we are servant of Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness movement.
Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- Hyderabad, November 19, 1972
Showing posts with label Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- Hyderabad. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- Hyderabad. Show all posts
Thursday, December 2, 2010
Wednesday, December 1, 2010
"We Are All Servants"
"We Are All Servants"
72/11/18 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 2.13
Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.)
Prabhupada:
dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]
The Second Chapter is the summary study of the Bhagavad-gita. The First Chapter is the preparatory study of Bhagavad-gita, and the Second Chapter is the summary study of the contents of Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita means the song sung by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Bhagavata. From the word bhagavata, we speak Bhagavan. Bhagavan, here, in the Bhagavad-gita you'll find everywhere: sri bhagavan uvaca. So it is the science of understanding God. Yad vijnana-samanvitam. Jnanam te pravaksyami yad vijnana-samanvitam. It is a vijnana. Vijnana means science. As everything is understood thoroughly through a scientific process, similarly, if you want to know the science of God, then you have to adopt the process by which one can understand God. That process is described in the Bhagavad-gita: bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He says, "If anyone wants to understand Me, then he has to take the process of devotional service," not by the speculative process or by fruitive activities, or by yogic process, mystic yogic process. It is clearly stated. Not only in Bhagavad-gita. In all other Vedic scripture.
athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-
prasada-lesanugrhita eva hi
janati tattvam bhagavan-mahimno
na canya eko 'pi ciram vicinvan
One can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead by His mercy only. Athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-prasada-lesanugrhita eva hi. Anyone who has received a small particle of the prasadam, mercy of the Lord, he can understand the Lord. Nobody can understand the Lord perfectly. It is not possible because the Lord is unlimited. We have got our senses very limited. Our senses are not only limited, but also imperfect. We commit illusion. We try to cheat. So many defects are there. Therefore simply by exercising our senses it is not possible to understand God.
So to know God, "God is very good, God is great," that is another thing. The science of God... Just like Bhagavad-gita, by studying Bhagavad-gita, we know not only "God is great," but we see what kind of God He is, what is His form. Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah. We have heard in the sastras that
isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
[Bs. 5.1]
Now that isvara, sac-cid-ananda-vigraha, how He appears sac-ci d-ananda-vigraha? Those who are present, of course, they saw the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha, but because not all of them were devotees, they could not understand Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam [Bg. 9.11]. Because He appeared just like a human being, so mudhas... Mudhas means less intelligent, or, in plain word, asses. Mudha means ass. So this class of men could not understand Krsna, that He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the defect of the mudhas. They may be very great scholars, academic scholar, but in the matter of understanding God, they're mudhas, asses. Why? Mayaya apahrta-jnana asuram bhavam asritah [Bg. 7.15]. At the present moment, people are mostly asuram bhavam asritah. Asuri, asuri bhava means to defy God: "There is no God. God is dead. I am God. You are God. So many Gods are loitering in the street. Why you are finding out God?" These are so many statements. So God has become so cheap. There are so many incarnations of God, especially in India. It is a breeding ground of Gods, so many. So that is, means they do not know what is God. Mudha. They think God is so cheap thing. But from the sastra we understand, from Bhagavad-gita we understand... When Krsna was asked by Arjuna, "How You are controlling the whole cosmology, Your vibhuti, Your power, energies?" So Krsna explained, and the, at last, He concluded,
athava bahunaitena
kim jnatena tavarjuna
vistabhyaham idam krtsnam
ekamsena sthito jagat
[Bg. 10.42]
"The whole cosmology, material world, is just sustained by My partial manifestation of energies." Ekamsena. This material cosmology, material manifestation, is one fourth demonstration of God's energy. The three-fourths manifestation of His energy is the spiritual world. Paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah [Bg. 8.20]. There is another nature which is spiritual nature, para, superior. The spiritual nature is described as para. Para means beyond this apara. There are two energies working, material nature and spiritual nature. Material nature, it is described in the Bhagavad-gita: bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva bhinna me prakrtir astadha [Bg. 7.4]. These eight types of material nature -- earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and ego -- these are material nature. Bhinna prakrtir astadha. They are separated energies. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param. Beyond this. These are inferior, apara. And beyond this apara-prakrti, there is another, superior prakrti. What is that? Jiva-bhutam maha-baho yayedam dharyate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. That is the living entity.
So living entity, living being, is energy of the Supreme Lord. Energy. Just like the sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of the sun globe. Similarly, we living entities, we are also energies of the Supreme Lord. What is this sunshine? It is a combination of a very small shining particles, molecular. That is sunshine. It looks like one homogeneous thing, but they are small particles. That is scientific understanding. Similarly, we are also a small particle of the Supreme Lord. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. We are a small particle. How much small? What is the magnitude? That is also described in the sastra. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca, jiva-bhago sa vijneyah sa anantyaya kalpate [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. There is dimension of the living entity -- one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So it is very difficult with our, these material eyes. We are very much proud of our eyes. But here is the indication from the sastra, the length and breadth of the living soul. Now, you find out, with your eyes, your microscope. That is not possible. Because they cannot find out, they say, nirakara. Nirakara. In one sense, it can be supported that we cannot ascertain the forms of the soul. And what, how we can ascertain the form of the Lord? Anor aniyan mahato mahiyan.
So spiritual education means, spiritual enlightenment means, first of all, we must try to understand the jiva. Because jiva is the small particle of the Lord. So that we can understand the quality of the Lord. Just like if you test a small particle of gold, then you can understand the composition of gold. If you test a little drop of water from the ocean, you can analyze the chemical composition of the sea. Similarly, if you can analyze the characteristics of the living entity, then you can at least understand what is God, what is the characteristics of God. Therefore the beginning of spiritual education is to understand one's self, this self-realization. How to realize self? We have to take knowledge from others. Knowledge means..., to acquire knowledge, to learn from the teacher. So here is the supreme teacher, Krsna. Krsna is accepted as the supreme teacher by everyone, by all the great sages formerly, like Vyasadeva, Narada, Devala, Asita. All other great sages. And recently, in the modern age, by our acaryas, Sri Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Ramanuja, yes, Sankaracarya, Visnusvami. All these great sages, great acaryas, they came from your South India. So you are fortunate in that sense. So we have to follow the acaryas. All these acaryas accept Krsna, the Supreme Lord. All these acaryas. And later, lately, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, five hundred years ago, He also accepted that Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. That is the acceptance in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Similarly, Lord Brahma also accepted Krsna:
isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
[Bs. 5.1]
So we have got so many evidences. So we have to accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no doubt about it. But why people do not accept? Why are so many big, big scholars and big, big scientists, why they do not accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead? That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, how these people do not accept. The statement is there:
na mam duskrtino mudhah
prapadyante naradhamah
mayayapahrta-jnana
asuram bhavam asritah
[Bg. 7.15]
Those who are duskrtina, sinful, duskrtina... Krti means meritorious, and dus means..., means miscreants, meritorious for mischief-making. We, everyone has got merit. The mischief-maker, he has also got merit, but one who uses his merit for mischief-making... Just like a great rogue, a thief. When he steals, he requires brain. So he's applying his brain, how to steal tactfully, how to become a great rogue tactfully. How to become a smuggler... They require also brain. So the brain is being misused for mischievous activities. They are called miscreants, duskrtina. So those who are duskrtina... Na mam prapadyante, na mam duskrtino mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. One class is duskrtina and the other class is mudha. Mudha means less intelligence, or no intelligence. na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah. And naradhama means the lowest of the mankind. And mayaya apahrta-jnanah, those whose knowledge have been taken by maya, asuram bhavam asritah. These classes of men do not surrender unto Krsna. We are not manufacturing these words. These words are in the Bhagavad-gita. If we study Bhagavad-gita, we have to accept the statements, Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita means the speeches which is delivered, or the song which is sung by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
So our Krsna consciousness movement is to preach all over the world that krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. You are searching after God. You are taxing your brain so much. But in spite of taxing your brain, you say sometimes that "There is no God," or "God is dead," or "Everyone is God," and so on, so on. But our proposition is that why you are taxing your brain? Here is God. Here is God, Krsna. By authorities, by Vedic version, by His activities. If we read life of Krsna, we can see that He's Krsna, God, from the very beginning of His birth. God is not manufactured by some mystic power. God is God, and dog is dog. A dog cannot become God; God cannot become dog. That is the difference.
So Krsna was God from the very beginning. As soon as Krsna took birth, He appeared in four-handed Visnu-murti. But when He was prayed by His mother to become an ordinary child, He became an ordinary child with two hands. So that is God, from the very beginning. Not that, by attaining some mystic power, one can become God. You can have some power, godly... You have already power. Because we are, every one of us is a part and parcel of God. Therefore godly qualities are there. But you cannot become cent percent God. That is not possible. That is not possible. There, they..., they have been analyzed. All the demigods and living entities, they have been analyzed by great stalwart people, and it has been found that Krsna is cent percent God. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. Ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. All others... There are many other gods. Then gods means not the Supreme God. Isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1]. We are speaking of the paramah isvarah, or Paramesvara. There are two words: isvara, paramesvara; atma, paramatma. That param is God. We are Brahman; Parabrahman. So Parabrahman, Paramatma, Paramesvara, all these are applicable to Krsna. Just like Arjuna, after hearing Bhagavad-gita, he admitted, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan, purusam sasvatam adyam [Bg. 10.12]. That is the position of Krsna. Adi-purusam. Govindam adi-purusam. Krsna also says, in the Bhagavad-gita, aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]. Devanam, Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara... Then, after Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara, there are other demigods, Indra, Candra, Varuna, so many. So Krsna says, aham adir hi devanam. Aham sarvasya prabhavah. He's the origin of everything. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. "Everything emanates from Me." In the Vedanta-sutra also the Absolute Truth is described as janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates.
So here is Krsna. From sastric evidences, by His opulences, by His power... Because Bhagavan means full of six opulences. Aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasah sriyah (Visnu Purana 6.5.47). He must be the richest. He must be the strongest. He must be the most famous. He must be the most beautiful. He must be the great renouncer. In this way, that is the definition of God. So that definition is confirmed by Lord Brahma: isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1]. Isvara means controller. Unless one is powerful, how he can control? So every one of us is little, a small controller. Somebody controls in his office. Somebody controls in his family life. Somebody controls a few factories. There are controllers. But nobody can say that "I am the supreme controller." That is not possible. The supreme controller is Krsna.
So this Krsna consciousness movement means we are trying link up our connection with the supreme controller. We do not wish to become the controller. We want to be controlled -- but by the supreme controller, not by others. That is our proposition. Just like generally, one who is in service, he hankers after government service. Because it is natural conclusion that "If I have to serve somebody, why a petty merchant? Why not take government service?" So that is our proposition, that we have to serve. The... We cannot do but serve. Any one of us. That is our constitutional position. Any one of us, we are sitting here, we are servant. Every one of us is servant. So our proposition is that you are servant in any case. Why not become servant of God? That is our proposition. That is Krsna consciousness movement.
So kamadinam kati na katidha palita durnidesah. We are servant of our senses, kama-krodha-moha-matsarya, all these. By, dictated by our lusty desires, we do anything which is abominable. Tesam kati na katidha palita durnidesah. So we are servant, everyone. Therefore, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Our real constitutional position is that we are eternal servant of God, Krsna. That is our position. But in this material condition of life, every one of us is trying to become the master. That is the struggle for existence. Everyone is trying: "I shall become the master. I shall become the Supreme." But our position is servant. So this is called illusion. I am not master. I am servant. But I am trying to become master artificially. That is struggle for existence. And mukti means, liberation means, when you give up this wrong idea that "I am master," and try to become the servant of the Supreme. That is called liberation. Liberation does not mean that after liberation we'll have a big, gigantic form or so many hands, so many legs. Liberation means to become liberated from the wrong consciousness. That is liberation. The wrong consciousness is that "I am master." So we have to change this consciousness. That is Krsna consciousness movement. One has to understand thoroughly that he's not master. He's servant. He's completely dependent on the supreme will. If we do not surrender unto the supreme will, then we have to surrender unto the will of maya. We have to remain a servant. If we don't..., reject service, or servitude of the Supreme Lord, then we have to become the servant of the senses. That is maya. Actually, that is going on. The whole world is serving different types of senses. Senses are one, the same, but they have got different desires. So they are servant of different desires.
Now the Krsna consciousness movement is... It is not manufactured by us. We get it from Bhagavad-gita: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Krsna says that "You give up all these nonsense desires. You surrender unto Me." That is the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gita. We are dictated by different types of desires, which is dictated by maya, and we want to become master falsely. This is called illusion. This is called maya. Actually, you are not master. How we can become master? Because we may be very scientifically advanced. We may manufacture very wonderful machine and weapon, but after all, we are subjected to the rules of maya: janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. You cannot get out of these four principles of maya's machinery janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi. Therefore the sane man, who is actually learned, he surrenders to Krsna. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Actually when one becomes wise, he surrenders to Krsna. Jnanavan mam prapadyate. Otherwise, who is Krsna? "I am as good as Krsna. I am God." That is maya. That is not actually knowledge. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said, ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah. They are thinking that they have become liberated, become Narayana, or God. Maninah, they are thinking like that. Actually, they are not, because they're subjected to the rules of the material nature. They cannot get out of these clutches. Who can get out of these clutches? Mam eva ye prapadyante. Krsna says, "Anyone who surrenders unto Me..."
daivi hy esa gunamayi
mama maya duratyaya
mam eva ye prapadyante
mayam etam taranti te
[Bg. 7.14]
So therefore this Krsna consciousness movement is very pious movement, the most, the most glorious welfare activities. And we are preaching this movement all over the world. Just to place Krsna... Our only ambition is that to place Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is our proposition. We don't want to become Krsna, but we want to become the most obedient servant of Krsna. That is our proposition. So we invite everyone, from all parts of the world, and they are coming, they are joining. So in India Krsna appeared. India has got a special advantage to understand Krsna, and the Indians neglect it. That's a great misfortune, but we request everyone to join this movement, study the philosophy and become happy. That is our proposition. Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. [break]
Indian: ...gavad-gita that the atma and jivatma is the same vision, and Brahman or Parabrahman is the same. And in knowledge of soul truth, the atma is the part and parcel of the Paramatma, that is the Supreme Lord, and this contradiction in this, I think, that how the atma and Paramatma is both one? Containing both, if the atma is part and parcel of the Paramatma, and when they, the atma and the great and Paramatma, is different. Because is contradiction in the understanding may accept what the Vedas say and what Bhagavad-gita say? Is there any difference between the Vedas and Bhagavad-gita? Are we following Vedas, or are we following Bhagavad-gita? Because the Bhagavad-gita is only song of Lord Krsna; the Vedas are the pure knowledge of Parabrahman.
Prabhupada: So why you are going away? You hear. You hear. Vedas... The... In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah: [Bg. 15.15] "All the Vedas and Vedantas, they are meant for understanding Krsna." If by studying Vedas and Vedanta you cannot understand Krsna, then it is srama eva hi kevalam. It is simply labor. That is the adjustment of Bhagavad-gita and all other Vedic literature. Vedas means... Veda means knowledge, and anta means ultimate. That is called Vedanta. So ultimate knowledge is to know God. You may not accept Krsna. Although all the acaryas... I have already mentioned. Even Sankaracarya, he also accept Krsna: sa bhagavan svayam krsna. So the Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, they have all accepted Krsna: the ultimate knowledge of Vedic understanding. Many acaryas, they have written notes on Vedanta, targeting Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have to follow the footprints of the great stalwart acaryas. Acaryopasanam. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If we follow the footprints of the acaryas, then we find there is no distinction between Vedanta and Bhagavad-gita. Vedanta, you might be referring to the Vedanta-sutra of Sankaracarya, but all the acaryas, the have written notes on Vedanta. Srimad-Bhagavatam is the original comment on Vedanta. Srimad-Bhagavatam begins with the Vedanta-sutra: janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. So Vedanta does not mean godlessness. Vedanta means to know God. That is real study of Vedanta.
Syamasundara: He wanted to know what is the difference between Paramatma and atma.
Prabhupada: Paramatma and atma, it is not very difficult to know. Just like you are father and you have got many children at home. So they, because they are children, they are, I mean to say, as ingredients, you and your children are the same, but still, you are superior, and the children are dependent. Your children are not different from you, but still, you are superior and they are inferior or junior. So qualitatively one, but quantitatively different. So quantitatively different -- atma, Paramatma; and qualitatively one -- atma is spirit, Paramatma is spirit. It is called acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different. One in quality, different in quantity. You can create. You are also qualitatively one with God. You have got creative power. Just like we are creating this flying machine, sputniks. That is also flying in the sky, and the Paramatma has created the millions of planets floating in the sky. So you have got the creative power, but you cannot create like that, Paramatma. That is the difference. Can you?
Indian: My question was very simple.
Prabhupada: Yes. The answer is also very simple. Paramatma is great. You are small. That's all.
Indian: But whether the, our atma is the part and parcel of the atma, Paramatma.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian: Paramatma is entirely different from the atma and...
Prabhupada: That I will explain. In quality, you are one. Because a particle of gold is also gold. But the gold mine is not equal to the gold earring. That is mistake.
Indian: They say atma is the Paramatma.
Various Indians: Not, not, the... Not the whole.
Prabhupada: Not the... One is great. Another is small. That is the difference. Quality is the same.
Indian: That means Paramatma and the atma...
Prabhupada: Quality same.
Indian: Quality same
Prabhupada: Quantity different.
Indian: But the atma, it is functioning in the body.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian: Is, according to the Paramatma, it is entirely different from the Paramatma.
Prabhupada: According to the Paramatma.
Indian: Every, our action is according to the Paramatma.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian: So why do you abuse one person to other person?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Indian: Why a person,...
Prabhupada: Yes?
Indian: ...to abuse other person, he says many things...
Prabhupada: But you should remember that you are in quality Paramatma. So Paramatma has got supreme independence. You have got little independence also. You, when you misuse that little independence, you create havoc.
Indian: Who is responsible for the creation of this...?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Indian: Who is responsible for the creation of this material...?
Prabhupada: Well, responsible... Just like father creates children. But if he becomes a thief, does it, does it mean the father is responsible? What is your idea?
Indian: The children. (?)
Prabhupada: Eh?
Indian: The children... But He's the big father. (?)
Prabhupada: Father creates children, but a child becomes a rogue. Does it mean the father creates a rogue?
Indian: No, the thievery is on account of bad...
Prabhupada: That is, that is the... Karanam guna-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu [Bg. 13.22]. You are independent. You can associate with different qualities of nature, and then your character is spoiled. That is your independence. Here God's instruction is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. You do not abide by that. You create your own independence. Therefore you suffer. Father says, "My dear boy, do like this. You'll be happy." But he does in a different way. Who is responsible, the father or the son?
Indian: Supposing... If independence is equal in...
Prabhupada: If you, if you work according to the instruction of God, then you'll be happy. That is our proposition.
Indian: No, my question is..., difference between the service to the human being and the service to...
Prabhupada: Just like if you water on the leaf, and if you water on the root, which is better?
Indian: The root.
Prabhupada: That's it. But if you water the leaf, means you waste your time. Because by watering the leaf, you cannot make the tree living. Similarly, the sastra says that water on the root. Yatha taror mula-nisecanena trpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopasakhah [SB 4.31.14]. If you water the root, automatically the branches, the twigs, the leaves, they become invigorated. But if you water the leaf, you simply you think that you are doing service, but you are doing nothing. Chant Hare Krsna. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- Hyderabad, November 18, 1972
72/11/18 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 2.13
Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.)
Prabhupada:
dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]
The Second Chapter is the summary study of the Bhagavad-gita. The First Chapter is the preparatory study of Bhagavad-gita, and the Second Chapter is the summary study of the contents of Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita means the song sung by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Bhagavata. From the word bhagavata, we speak Bhagavan. Bhagavan, here, in the Bhagavad-gita you'll find everywhere: sri bhagavan uvaca. So it is the science of understanding God. Yad vijnana-samanvitam. Jnanam te pravaksyami yad vijnana-samanvitam. It is a vijnana. Vijnana means science. As everything is understood thoroughly through a scientific process, similarly, if you want to know the science of God, then you have to adopt the process by which one can understand God. That process is described in the Bhagavad-gita: bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He says, "If anyone wants to understand Me, then he has to take the process of devotional service," not by the speculative process or by fruitive activities, or by yogic process, mystic yogic process. It is clearly stated. Not only in Bhagavad-gita. In all other Vedic scripture.
athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-
prasada-lesanugrhita eva hi
janati tattvam bhagavan-mahimno
na canya eko 'pi ciram vicinvan
One can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead by His mercy only. Athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-prasada-lesanugrhita eva hi. Anyone who has received a small particle of the prasadam, mercy of the Lord, he can understand the Lord. Nobody can understand the Lord perfectly. It is not possible because the Lord is unlimited. We have got our senses very limited. Our senses are not only limited, but also imperfect. We commit illusion. We try to cheat. So many defects are there. Therefore simply by exercising our senses it is not possible to understand God.
So to know God, "God is very good, God is great," that is another thing. The science of God... Just like Bhagavad-gita, by studying Bhagavad-gita, we know not only "God is great," but we see what kind of God He is, what is His form. Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah. We have heard in the sastras that
isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
[Bs. 5.1]
Now that isvara, sac-cid-ananda-vigraha, how He appears sac-ci d-ananda-vigraha? Those who are present, of course, they saw the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha, but because not all of them were devotees, they could not understand Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam [Bg. 9.11]. Because He appeared just like a human being, so mudhas... Mudhas means less intelligent, or, in plain word, asses. Mudha means ass. So this class of men could not understand Krsna, that He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the defect of the mudhas. They may be very great scholars, academic scholar, but in the matter of understanding God, they're mudhas, asses. Why? Mayaya apahrta-jnana asuram bhavam asritah [Bg. 7.15]. At the present moment, people are mostly asuram bhavam asritah. Asuri, asuri bhava means to defy God: "There is no God. God is dead. I am God. You are God. So many Gods are loitering in the street. Why you are finding out God?" These are so many statements. So God has become so cheap. There are so many incarnations of God, especially in India. It is a breeding ground of Gods, so many. So that is, means they do not know what is God. Mudha. They think God is so cheap thing. But from the sastra we understand, from Bhagavad-gita we understand... When Krsna was asked by Arjuna, "How You are controlling the whole cosmology, Your vibhuti, Your power, energies?" So Krsna explained, and the, at last, He concluded,
athava bahunaitena
kim jnatena tavarjuna
vistabhyaham idam krtsnam
ekamsena sthito jagat
[Bg. 10.42]
"The whole cosmology, material world, is just sustained by My partial manifestation of energies." Ekamsena. This material cosmology, material manifestation, is one fourth demonstration of God's energy. The three-fourths manifestation of His energy is the spiritual world. Paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah [Bg. 8.20]. There is another nature which is spiritual nature, para, superior. The spiritual nature is described as para. Para means beyond this apara. There are two energies working, material nature and spiritual nature. Material nature, it is described in the Bhagavad-gita: bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva bhinna me prakrtir astadha [Bg. 7.4]. These eight types of material nature -- earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and ego -- these are material nature. Bhinna prakrtir astadha. They are separated energies. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param. Beyond this. These are inferior, apara. And beyond this apara-prakrti, there is another, superior prakrti. What is that? Jiva-bhutam maha-baho yayedam dharyate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. That is the living entity.
So living entity, living being, is energy of the Supreme Lord. Energy. Just like the sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of the sun globe. Similarly, we living entities, we are also energies of the Supreme Lord. What is this sunshine? It is a combination of a very small shining particles, molecular. That is sunshine. It looks like one homogeneous thing, but they are small particles. That is scientific understanding. Similarly, we are also a small particle of the Supreme Lord. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. We are a small particle. How much small? What is the magnitude? That is also described in the sastra. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca, jiva-bhago sa vijneyah sa anantyaya kalpate [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. There is dimension of the living entity -- one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So it is very difficult with our, these material eyes. We are very much proud of our eyes. But here is the indication from the sastra, the length and breadth of the living soul. Now, you find out, with your eyes, your microscope. That is not possible. Because they cannot find out, they say, nirakara. Nirakara. In one sense, it can be supported that we cannot ascertain the forms of the soul. And what, how we can ascertain the form of the Lord? Anor aniyan mahato mahiyan.
So spiritual education means, spiritual enlightenment means, first of all, we must try to understand the jiva. Because jiva is the small particle of the Lord. So that we can understand the quality of the Lord. Just like if you test a small particle of gold, then you can understand the composition of gold. If you test a little drop of water from the ocean, you can analyze the chemical composition of the sea. Similarly, if you can analyze the characteristics of the living entity, then you can at least understand what is God, what is the characteristics of God. Therefore the beginning of spiritual education is to understand one's self, this self-realization. How to realize self? We have to take knowledge from others. Knowledge means..., to acquire knowledge, to learn from the teacher. So here is the supreme teacher, Krsna. Krsna is accepted as the supreme teacher by everyone, by all the great sages formerly, like Vyasadeva, Narada, Devala, Asita. All other great sages. And recently, in the modern age, by our acaryas, Sri Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Ramanuja, yes, Sankaracarya, Visnusvami. All these great sages, great acaryas, they came from your South India. So you are fortunate in that sense. So we have to follow the acaryas. All these acaryas accept Krsna, the Supreme Lord. All these acaryas. And later, lately, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, five hundred years ago, He also accepted that Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. That is the acceptance in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Similarly, Lord Brahma also accepted Krsna:
isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
[Bs. 5.1]
So we have got so many evidences. So we have to accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no doubt about it. But why people do not accept? Why are so many big, big scholars and big, big scientists, why they do not accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead? That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, how these people do not accept. The statement is there:
na mam duskrtino mudhah
prapadyante naradhamah
mayayapahrta-jnana
asuram bhavam asritah
[Bg. 7.15]
Those who are duskrtina, sinful, duskrtina... Krti means meritorious, and dus means..., means miscreants, meritorious for mischief-making. We, everyone has got merit. The mischief-maker, he has also got merit, but one who uses his merit for mischief-making... Just like a great rogue, a thief. When he steals, he requires brain. So he's applying his brain, how to steal tactfully, how to become a great rogue tactfully. How to become a smuggler... They require also brain. So the brain is being misused for mischievous activities. They are called miscreants, duskrtina. So those who are duskrtina... Na mam prapadyante, na mam duskrtino mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. One class is duskrtina and the other class is mudha. Mudha means less intelligence, or no intelligence. na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah. And naradhama means the lowest of the mankind. And mayaya apahrta-jnanah, those whose knowledge have been taken by maya, asuram bhavam asritah. These classes of men do not surrender unto Krsna. We are not manufacturing these words. These words are in the Bhagavad-gita. If we study Bhagavad-gita, we have to accept the statements, Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita means the speeches which is delivered, or the song which is sung by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
So our Krsna consciousness movement is to preach all over the world that krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. You are searching after God. You are taxing your brain so much. But in spite of taxing your brain, you say sometimes that "There is no God," or "God is dead," or "Everyone is God," and so on, so on. But our proposition is that why you are taxing your brain? Here is God. Here is God, Krsna. By authorities, by Vedic version, by His activities. If we read life of Krsna, we can see that He's Krsna, God, from the very beginning of His birth. God is not manufactured by some mystic power. God is God, and dog is dog. A dog cannot become God; God cannot become dog. That is the difference.
So Krsna was God from the very beginning. As soon as Krsna took birth, He appeared in four-handed Visnu-murti. But when He was prayed by His mother to become an ordinary child, He became an ordinary child with two hands. So that is God, from the very beginning. Not that, by attaining some mystic power, one can become God. You can have some power, godly... You have already power. Because we are, every one of us is a part and parcel of God. Therefore godly qualities are there. But you cannot become cent percent God. That is not possible. That is not possible. There, they..., they have been analyzed. All the demigods and living entities, they have been analyzed by great stalwart people, and it has been found that Krsna is cent percent God. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. Ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. All others... There are many other gods. Then gods means not the Supreme God. Isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1]. We are speaking of the paramah isvarah, or Paramesvara. There are two words: isvara, paramesvara; atma, paramatma. That param is God. We are Brahman; Parabrahman. So Parabrahman, Paramatma, Paramesvara, all these are applicable to Krsna. Just like Arjuna, after hearing Bhagavad-gita, he admitted, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan, purusam sasvatam adyam [Bg. 10.12]. That is the position of Krsna. Adi-purusam. Govindam adi-purusam. Krsna also says, in the Bhagavad-gita, aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]. Devanam, Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara... Then, after Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara, there are other demigods, Indra, Candra, Varuna, so many. So Krsna says, aham adir hi devanam. Aham sarvasya prabhavah. He's the origin of everything. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. "Everything emanates from Me." In the Vedanta-sutra also the Absolute Truth is described as janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates.
So here is Krsna. From sastric evidences, by His opulences, by His power... Because Bhagavan means full of six opulences. Aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasah sriyah (Visnu Purana 6.5.47). He must be the richest. He must be the strongest. He must be the most famous. He must be the most beautiful. He must be the great renouncer. In this way, that is the definition of God. So that definition is confirmed by Lord Brahma: isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1]. Isvara means controller. Unless one is powerful, how he can control? So every one of us is little, a small controller. Somebody controls in his office. Somebody controls in his family life. Somebody controls a few factories. There are controllers. But nobody can say that "I am the supreme controller." That is not possible. The supreme controller is Krsna.
So this Krsna consciousness movement means we are trying link up our connection with the supreme controller. We do not wish to become the controller. We want to be controlled -- but by the supreme controller, not by others. That is our proposition. Just like generally, one who is in service, he hankers after government service. Because it is natural conclusion that "If I have to serve somebody, why a petty merchant? Why not take government service?" So that is our proposition, that we have to serve. The... We cannot do but serve. Any one of us. That is our constitutional position. Any one of us, we are sitting here, we are servant. Every one of us is servant. So our proposition is that you are servant in any case. Why not become servant of God? That is our proposition. That is Krsna consciousness movement.
So kamadinam kati na katidha palita durnidesah. We are servant of our senses, kama-krodha-moha-matsarya, all these. By, dictated by our lusty desires, we do anything which is abominable. Tesam kati na katidha palita durnidesah. So we are servant, everyone. Therefore, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Our real constitutional position is that we are eternal servant of God, Krsna. That is our position. But in this material condition of life, every one of us is trying to become the master. That is the struggle for existence. Everyone is trying: "I shall become the master. I shall become the Supreme." But our position is servant. So this is called illusion. I am not master. I am servant. But I am trying to become master artificially. That is struggle for existence. And mukti means, liberation means, when you give up this wrong idea that "I am master," and try to become the servant of the Supreme. That is called liberation. Liberation does not mean that after liberation we'll have a big, gigantic form or so many hands, so many legs. Liberation means to become liberated from the wrong consciousness. That is liberation. The wrong consciousness is that "I am master." So we have to change this consciousness. That is Krsna consciousness movement. One has to understand thoroughly that he's not master. He's servant. He's completely dependent on the supreme will. If we do not surrender unto the supreme will, then we have to surrender unto the will of maya. We have to remain a servant. If we don't..., reject service, or servitude of the Supreme Lord, then we have to become the servant of the senses. That is maya. Actually, that is going on. The whole world is serving different types of senses. Senses are one, the same, but they have got different desires. So they are servant of different desires.
Now the Krsna consciousness movement is... It is not manufactured by us. We get it from Bhagavad-gita: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Krsna says that "You give up all these nonsense desires. You surrender unto Me." That is the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gita. We are dictated by different types of desires, which is dictated by maya, and we want to become master falsely. This is called illusion. This is called maya. Actually, you are not master. How we can become master? Because we may be very scientifically advanced. We may manufacture very wonderful machine and weapon, but after all, we are subjected to the rules of maya: janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. You cannot get out of these four principles of maya's machinery janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi. Therefore the sane man, who is actually learned, he surrenders to Krsna. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Actually when one becomes wise, he surrenders to Krsna. Jnanavan mam prapadyate. Otherwise, who is Krsna? "I am as good as Krsna. I am God." That is maya. That is not actually knowledge. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said, ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah. They are thinking that they have become liberated, become Narayana, or God. Maninah, they are thinking like that. Actually, they are not, because they're subjected to the rules of the material nature. They cannot get out of these clutches. Who can get out of these clutches? Mam eva ye prapadyante. Krsna says, "Anyone who surrenders unto Me..."
daivi hy esa gunamayi
mama maya duratyaya
mam eva ye prapadyante
mayam etam taranti te
[Bg. 7.14]
So therefore this Krsna consciousness movement is very pious movement, the most, the most glorious welfare activities. And we are preaching this movement all over the world. Just to place Krsna... Our only ambition is that to place Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is our proposition. We don't want to become Krsna, but we want to become the most obedient servant of Krsna. That is our proposition. So we invite everyone, from all parts of the world, and they are coming, they are joining. So in India Krsna appeared. India has got a special advantage to understand Krsna, and the Indians neglect it. That's a great misfortune, but we request everyone to join this movement, study the philosophy and become happy. That is our proposition. Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. [break]
Indian: ...gavad-gita that the atma and jivatma is the same vision, and Brahman or Parabrahman is the same. And in knowledge of soul truth, the atma is the part and parcel of the Paramatma, that is the Supreme Lord, and this contradiction in this, I think, that how the atma and Paramatma is both one? Containing both, if the atma is part and parcel of the Paramatma, and when they, the atma and the great and Paramatma, is different. Because is contradiction in the understanding may accept what the Vedas say and what Bhagavad-gita say? Is there any difference between the Vedas and Bhagavad-gita? Are we following Vedas, or are we following Bhagavad-gita? Because the Bhagavad-gita is only song of Lord Krsna; the Vedas are the pure knowledge of Parabrahman.
Prabhupada: So why you are going away? You hear. You hear. Vedas... The... In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah: [Bg. 15.15] "All the Vedas and Vedantas, they are meant for understanding Krsna." If by studying Vedas and Vedanta you cannot understand Krsna, then it is srama eva hi kevalam. It is simply labor. That is the adjustment of Bhagavad-gita and all other Vedic literature. Vedas means... Veda means knowledge, and anta means ultimate. That is called Vedanta. So ultimate knowledge is to know God. You may not accept Krsna. Although all the acaryas... I have already mentioned. Even Sankaracarya, he also accept Krsna: sa bhagavan svayam krsna. So the Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, they have all accepted Krsna: the ultimate knowledge of Vedic understanding. Many acaryas, they have written notes on Vedanta, targeting Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have to follow the footprints of the great stalwart acaryas. Acaryopasanam. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If we follow the footprints of the acaryas, then we find there is no distinction between Vedanta and Bhagavad-gita. Vedanta, you might be referring to the Vedanta-sutra of Sankaracarya, but all the acaryas, the have written notes on Vedanta. Srimad-Bhagavatam is the original comment on Vedanta. Srimad-Bhagavatam begins with the Vedanta-sutra: janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. So Vedanta does not mean godlessness. Vedanta means to know God. That is real study of Vedanta.
Syamasundara: He wanted to know what is the difference between Paramatma and atma.
Prabhupada: Paramatma and atma, it is not very difficult to know. Just like you are father and you have got many children at home. So they, because they are children, they are, I mean to say, as ingredients, you and your children are the same, but still, you are superior, and the children are dependent. Your children are not different from you, but still, you are superior and they are inferior or junior. So qualitatively one, but quantitatively different. So quantitatively different -- atma, Paramatma; and qualitatively one -- atma is spirit, Paramatma is spirit. It is called acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different. One in quality, different in quantity. You can create. You are also qualitatively one with God. You have got creative power. Just like we are creating this flying machine, sputniks. That is also flying in the sky, and the Paramatma has created the millions of planets floating in the sky. So you have got the creative power, but you cannot create like that, Paramatma. That is the difference. Can you?
Indian: My question was very simple.
Prabhupada: Yes. The answer is also very simple. Paramatma is great. You are small. That's all.
Indian: But whether the, our atma is the part and parcel of the atma, Paramatma.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian: Paramatma is entirely different from the atma and...
Prabhupada: That I will explain. In quality, you are one. Because a particle of gold is also gold. But the gold mine is not equal to the gold earring. That is mistake.
Indian: They say atma is the Paramatma.
Various Indians: Not, not, the... Not the whole.
Prabhupada: Not the... One is great. Another is small. That is the difference. Quality is the same.
Indian: That means Paramatma and the atma...
Prabhupada: Quality same.
Indian: Quality same
Prabhupada: Quantity different.
Indian: But the atma, it is functioning in the body.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian: Is, according to the Paramatma, it is entirely different from the Paramatma.
Prabhupada: According to the Paramatma.
Indian: Every, our action is according to the Paramatma.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian: So why do you abuse one person to other person?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Indian: Why a person,...
Prabhupada: Yes?
Indian: ...to abuse other person, he says many things...
Prabhupada: But you should remember that you are in quality Paramatma. So Paramatma has got supreme independence. You have got little independence also. You, when you misuse that little independence, you create havoc.
Indian: Who is responsible for the creation of this...?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Indian: Who is responsible for the creation of this material...?
Prabhupada: Well, responsible... Just like father creates children. But if he becomes a thief, does it, does it mean the father is responsible? What is your idea?
Indian: The children. (?)
Prabhupada: Eh?
Indian: The children... But He's the big father. (?)
Prabhupada: Father creates children, but a child becomes a rogue. Does it mean the father creates a rogue?
Indian: No, the thievery is on account of bad...
Prabhupada: That is, that is the... Karanam guna-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu [Bg. 13.22]. You are independent. You can associate with different qualities of nature, and then your character is spoiled. That is your independence. Here God's instruction is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. You do not abide by that. You create your own independence. Therefore you suffer. Father says, "My dear boy, do like this. You'll be happy." But he does in a different way. Who is responsible, the father or the son?
Indian: Supposing... If independence is equal in...
Prabhupada: If you, if you work according to the instruction of God, then you'll be happy. That is our proposition.
Indian: No, my question is..., difference between the service to the human being and the service to...
Prabhupada: Just like if you water on the leaf, and if you water on the root, which is better?
Indian: The root.
Prabhupada: That's it. But if you water the leaf, means you waste your time. Because by watering the leaf, you cannot make the tree living. Similarly, the sastra says that water on the root. Yatha taror mula-nisecanena trpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopasakhah [SB 4.31.14]. If you water the root, automatically the branches, the twigs, the leaves, they become invigorated. But if you water the leaf, you simply you think that you are doing service, but you are doing nothing. Chant Hare Krsna. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- Hyderabad, November 18, 1972
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