Where ever you go and whomever you meet tell them about Krishna

June 29, 1972

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Prabhupada: So the Indians who are outside India, they have got a special duty. So far our economic condition is concerned, as I explained yesterday, that one is destined to certain material comforts and discomforts, according to his body -- already he has got. So either you stay in India or you stay in America, the bodily comforts or sense gratification, that will be achieved either in India or America. What you are destined to achieve, you will have it because as soon as your body is manufactured, your standard of comfort and discomfort is also manufactured. In Bengal there is a proverb that yetha deoya bhange, kapala yabe sange(?): "Wherever you go, your fortune will go with you." Fortune and misfortune, that will also go with you. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu said one thing, that "Any Indian, any man who has taken birth on the soil of Bharatavarsa, India, he has got a special duty. And that duty is to spread Krsna consciousness."bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara
janma sarthaka kari kara para-upakara
 [Cc. Adi 9.41]
To do good to others, para-upakara. So those Indians who are here, it is all right you are earning for some economic development, but at the same time, you try to make your life perfect by Krsna consciousness and spread it to the foreigners as far as possible. That's your duty, not that, that you are getting decent salary than India, and enjoy life and forget your culture. That is suicidal. You have got a culture... So this culture is Vedic culture and Vedic culture means Krsna conscious. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gita, vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [Bg. 15.15]. Vedic culture means to understand Krsna. One who has not understood Krsna, he has no Vedic culture. But every Indian is supposed to have Vedic culture. And to have Vedic culture means to understand Krsna. Therefore all Indians, they should cultivate this Krsna consciousness personally, make their life successful, and distribute it to the, our neighbors. Of course, I do not think... If you invite your neighbors, they do not come, you said?
Guest (1) (Indian man): Obviously, they have got some other work, this, that.
Prabhupada: Hm. But anyway, because you are living in this country, you must have some friends. Whenever you talk with your friends, you talk about Krsna. Don't waste your time in other ways. That will be beneficial for you and for your friends. And before talking about Krsna, you should know about Krsna. And you can know about Krsna very easily by understanding Bhagavad-gita. So read Bhagavad-gita thoroughly. Try to understand it and you can distribute it. That is a great service to Krsna, to your personal self, and to the person you are speaking about Krsna. And four principles of impious life, as it is accepted by our Vedic followers, namely, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That will give you strength and over and above that, if you can chant Hare Krsna mantra... You can chant. It is not difficult. There is no loss. You can chant. That will give you spiritual strength. And in this way try to become spiritually powerful and serve Krsna. It doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter. Everywhere is Krsna's kingdom. Sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the proprietor everywhere. So if you be in Krsna consciousness, so wherever you may be, you'll be with Krsna. And as soon as you remain with Krsna, you are not living within this material world. You are living in the spiritual world. So, especially I request Indians, as it is ordered by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara: [Cc. Adi 9.41] "Anyone who has taken birth on the holy land of Bharatavarsa, India," janma sarthaka kari, "just make your life successful by Krsna consciousness, and preach it." This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's order. So if you take it you'll be happy, your neighbors will be happy, the world will be happy. And Krsna-katha means to present Krsna as He is. Don't misinterpret by us..., just like some rascals do. Even a great scholar known all over the world practically in scholarly circle, he has practically vilified Krsna by his so-called scholarship. Now he's suffering. He has lost himself, we have practically seen. So that is a great offense, to vilify saintly persons or God. That's great offense. So read Bhagavad-gita as it is, present it as it is. Then your life is successful. Now, if you have got any question we can discuss.
Guest (2) (Indian man): Swamiji, the four principles you were telling about, are they for purposes of just other-worldliness or is it for material gains in this world or what?
Prabhupada: No. We belong to the other world actually. We spirit soul, we belong to the spiritual world. Just like fish belongs to the water. Fish does not belong to the land. So if the fish is brought from the water to the land, it cannot be comfortable at any stage. It will die. Similarly you are Brahman, part and parcel of Brahman, particle of Brahman. So unless you return to Brahman, you cannot be happy.
Guest (2): But if we look at the world as it is today we'll find that people who are the most powerful in this world are those who...
Prabhupada: Who is powerful? First of all let us see who is powerful.
Guest (2): Like United States, like Soviet Union. There is no other power in this world who can...
Prabhupada: What do you mean by powerful? Then President Nixon is not afraid of anything, do you think?
Guest (2): He personally may not, may be afraid of something, but as a country, yes, it's very powerful. The whole world is afraid of them.
Prabhupada: Well, President Nixon means this country. Why he went to China? Why he went to Russia? He's also afraid. If there is war there will be great calamity. So everyone is afraid. Everyone is under the control of the laws of nature. Everyone is hungry. So actually nobody's powerful in this material world. Even if he's powerful, it is for temporary. So many Hitlers, so many Napoleons, so many Churchills and others came and gone. There was powerful British Empire, powerful Roman Empire. So nobody's powerful. That's a wrong idea. In due course of time everything will be kicked out and finished. That is the law of nature.
Guest (2): Yes, but what I'm trying to get at is that it seems to me that if you carefully look at the world history during the past...
Prabhupada: World history is that history repeats itself. Everything comes into existence and then vanquished.
Guest (2): No, that's not what I mean. What I meant is that during the past two thousand years, whoever was very powerful was who was doing all these four things which we are, which you are suggesting that we should give up, you see.
Prabhupada: But I say that my challenge is nobody's powerful. That is my challenge.
Guest (2): I mean...
Prabhupada: You mean, but that is not the fact.
Guest (2): It's a fact, I mean, when they are powerful they rule the whole earth.
Prabhupada: Where is your Hitler? Where is your Mussolini? Where is Napoleon?
Guest (2): Yes, Hitler is gone, but then we have that U.S., you see. If tomorrow U.S. goes, maybe there will be Soviet Union.
Prabhupada: So that means everyone will come into power for some days; then it will be finished. That's all.
Guest (2): Yeah, but all the people who are getting into the power are people who are having these four vices, you know, and...
Prabhupada: Therefore their power is finished. If you become sinful, then your power will not exist. Just like Ravana became powerful. He was so powerful that he dared to take away Sita. But he also became vanquished. That is the history.
Guest (2): Yes but people say that...
Prabhupada: People say, that is other... You see the fact. Nobody is powerful; nobody can exist here. For the temporary, say for some years, you may be so-called powerful but it is not powerful. We are concerned with eternal life. We are not interested in the so-called power for a few days. That is not our aim.
Guest (2): Yes, but if we say that everything is destined, like the moment your body is manufactured and...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest (2): ...everything is destined, then we are probably as well destined to be Krsna conscious or to be non-Krsna conscious, you know.
Prabhupada: No. That destiny can change. Sastra says... Destined means so far you're... Suppose you are to get, say, one thousand dollars per month. That you'll get. You try for it or don't try for it, you'll get. Therefore we should not waste our time for getting one thousand dollars. We should utilize the time for developing our Krsna consciousness. This is our philosophy.
tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido
na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah
tal labhyate duhkhavad anyatah sukham
kalena sarvatra gabhira-ramhasa
 [SB 1.5.18]
Just like nobody tries for becoming unhappy, but unhappiness comes. Nobody tries, that "Let me become unhappy." But people become unhappy. Why? He does not try for it. Similarly, that happiness also, even if you don't try for it, it will come. So sastra says, "You don't bother yourself for worldly happiness or unhappiness. Whatever you are destined, you'll get it. You try for develop your Krsna consciousness, which in other life, in the animal life, you could not do." In the animal... [break] ...advised... If the animal is advised that, "You become Krsna conscious," he cannot do it. He has no power. But a man can do it. Therefore the man's main business should be how to develop Krsna consciousness, not for so-called economic development. Economic development will come automatically, what you are destined to have. This is our philosophy. We don't try for any economic development. All our members, we have no concern what we shall eat tomorrow, although we haven't got any source of income. We are pushing this movement all over the world. We have got about one hundred branches and similar devotees are there, each branch, not less than twenty-five. What is that?
Devotee (3): Twenty in San Diego.
Prabhupada: Twenty. And about two hundred somewhere. And in America you know the expenditure. We are living in the best part of the city. But we have no source of income. We take some books, some incense, but there is no guarantee that it will be sold. So it is not a book of technology, general demand -- Krsna book. So if somebody's kindly interested in Krsna, he'll purchase. So we are living in this way, depending on Krsna, and Krsna's supplying all necessities. We have got seventy thousand dollar expenditure per month. So this is practical. We don't try for getting any job or any business. Depend on Krsna. But our main business is to preach Krsna consciousness and follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, Hare Krsna mantra. So we are... There is no problem for us. To collect seventy thousand dollars and spend every month, do you think is very easy job? A big government is concerned, or a big company, to collect seventy thousand dollars and distribute it again. It is a big problem. So how... We are increasing our centers. Practically every month, two, one, two. And we have got huge expenditure. But Krsna is supplying. So we should see the example, be confident, depend on Krsna and then everything is all right. Krsna is powerful. He's omnipresent. He knows better than me. Our business is to satisfy Him. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So we are preaching this, that "You take to Krsna. Surrender to Krsna." Krsna said. The same thing we are saying. We are not manufacturing it. Why should we manufacture? The words are already there. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We simply... Just like I have come to your place. What am I speaking? I am speaking that "You become Krsna conscious." We don't talk of any economic problem, political problem. We don't talk.
Guest (2): How can you separate out economics, politics...
Prabhupada: There is no separation. Krsna is the all-inclusive. Economic problem means eating, sleeping, mating or getting some money. So we are getting money. I have already given you account.
Guest (2): Yes, but... No. As far as ISKCON is concerned, maybe that is true. But supposing if you take an individual devotee, see, who is married and has a family and all that... He cannot...
Prabhupada: There are so many married families. So many married families. He is married family, he is married family, he is married family. They have got children, wife, everything. There is no problem. The children are getting nice education, chanting Hare Krsna, dancing, eating nicely. Just now we are purchasing one house in front of our temple, seventy thousand dollars for providing grhasthas. Husband, wife, children will live there. So we have no problem. The grhasthas are there, the brahmacaris are there, sannyasis are there -- everyone is there. We maintain the Vedic culture, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, or brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, sannyasa. The eight orders of social structure we maintain. But they're all engaged in Krsna's service. That is the distinction. Everyone is twenty-four hours engaged in Krsna's service.
Guest (2): What are the ksatriyas of this order supposed to doing now?
Prabhupada: They are taking to politics. Yes.
Guest (2): Whom are they fighting? Whom are they going to fight?
Prabhupada: No, some of our members, they are standing for election in the government. Election. And we hope one day some of our men will become President. That is ksatriya's business, to take part in administration.
Guest (2): No fighter? No fighting? They are not going to fight? They're not going to become warriors, not like the real ksatriyas.
Prabhupada: Well, when you take part in politics you have to fight. (laughter) Yes.
Guest (2): I don't mean that. I mean musti fighting.
Prabhupada: Well, if required, musti fight will be there. Arjuna, Arjuna was fighting. He was Krsna conscious.
Guest (2): Yes. But what I'm basically asking is what are these ksatriyas going to fight with?
Prabhupada: Ksatriya fought... Why don't you take the case of Arjuna? He was a ksatriya. He fought for Krsna.
Guest (2): Yes, but in those days, you see, there is some kind of a clear cut...
Prabhupada: Those days or in these days, the same principles are there. Ksatriyas should fight for Krsna. That is his perfection of life.
Guest (2): Okay. Then the question is whom shall we fight now? Okay, supposing we are all...
Prabhupada: Those who are not Krsna conscious. Yes.
Guest (2): Fight in a real..., sword, fight with swords?
Prabhupada: The demons. Demons. Demons. Just like Lord Ramacandra fought with the demons, so similarly, Krsna conscious person will fight with the demons. That is already there. Demons and demigod always fight. Devasura-yuddha, you know? That is history. We don't say that fighting should be stopped. We don't say that. We don't say that becoming Krsna conscious, nonviolence. That is bogus. In Delhi when there was not..., declaration of war between Pakistan and India, press representative came: "Swamiji, what is your opinion about this fight?" I said, "You must fight." And it was published in the paper. It gave some agitation. They were glad. I said, "You must fight." And that was published in big letters in... So we are not that kind of sadhu and Vaisnava, that we don't take care of practical things. When there is need of fight, we shall fight.
Guest (2): Yes but if that is the case, you see, then the Muslim Mullah, or whatever you may call, says, "Fight all non-Muslims."
Prabhupada: Well, Muslim... It is not the question of Muslims and Hindus. When there is right cause for fighting...
Guest (2): But what I mean is a Muslim Mullah can say all non...
Prabhupada: Well, why you are making...? We are talking of philosophy. That is applicable to the Muslim or to the Hindus or everyone. When there is right cause of fight, one must fight. This is philosophy.
Guest (2): Yes but what is the basis on which you decide whether a cause is right or wrong? There should be a common basis. You see.
Prabhupada: Just like aggressor. Aggressor. Just like you are living in this room. If somebody enters your room and attacks your wife, you must fight. You immediately kill him. That is the law. This is fight. You cannot see your wife being insulted before you. You must fight. You must kill him. That is the law. Aggressor.
Guest (2): Does this apply to the brahmanas?
Prabhupada: You should fight... No, brahmanas will not fight. the ksatriyas will fight. The brahmanas, ksatriyas, they are part and parcel of the same unit. Just like hand. Hand is the part of your body. When there is attack, you first of all spread your hand. So this is ksatriya's business. When somebody is coming to attack you, you don't put your legs, you put your hands. And the hand is raised by the order of the brain. And the hand and the brain is maintained by the belly. Why don't you study your own body? As in your own body there is brahminical department, there is ksatriya department, vaisya department and sudra department... (laughter) But nobody is less important.
Guest (2): How do you define a brahmana?
Prabhupada: The brain.
Guest (2): That is for a man, but...
Prabhupada: That is for everything. The brain of the society should be brahmana.
Guest (2): By brain what do you mean?
Prabhupada: What do you mean, that you learn. You come to our school. Then you learn. You cannot learn everything in one minute.
Guest (2): (laughs) No.
Prabhupada: Then you just hear. Don't make yourself laughing stock.
Guest (2): No, what I mean is brahmana means by birth or by action or...
Prabhupada: No, no. Not by birth. By action.
Guest (2): By action only.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest (2): You don't recognize brahmanas by birth, then.
Prabhupada: No no. Then how they are becoming brahmanas? They are not by birth brahmana? Why don't you see yourself? They are brahmana.
Guest (2): So if there is a brahmana by birth, if he doesn't...
Prabhupada: No, there is no brahmana by birth. That is not sanctioned by the sastra.
Guest (2): Oh, I see. So there is no real brahmana by birth.
Prabhupada: No. There is no... That is not sanctioned by the sastra. That is artificial.
Guest (2): I see. So according to you...
Prabhupada: Brahmanas means by quality. He must have the brahminical quality, then he's brahmana.
Guest (2): So under these principles then, there are no brahmanas in India, really, then.
Prabhupada: Yes. At the... Not only...
Guest (2): Not all the brahmanas who are supposed to be brahmanas.
Prabhupada: Yes. We... Our... This philosophy, Krsna consciousness, according to the Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavata, we don't accept brahmana by birth. We accept brahmana by quality. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. Quality and work.
Guest (2): What are your qualifications for a sudra?
Prabhupada: Sudra is serving others. Get some salary and be satisfied. That's all. He has no more culture. That is sudra. He cannot live independently. Anyone who serves others for his livelihood, he's a sudra. A brahmana never serves anyone, a ksatriya never serves anyone, a vaisya never serves anyone. A sudra... Paricaryatmakam karma sudrasyapi svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.44]. They want some service: "Give me some money, sir. I am helpless." "All right, you work like this." That is sudra.
Guest (2): So in other words, all dependent employees, they're all sudras.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the statement of the sastra. Kalau sudra-sambhavah: "In the Kali-yuga everyone is sudra."
Guest (2): :So only those who have independent means, then, would come in the...
Prabhupada: They can be counted, yes. Because a brahmana is advised not to accept service at any circumstances. That is the injunction of the sastra. He can take the profession of a ksatriya or a vaisya, but not the sudra. That is brahmana.
Guest (2): So whoever cannot stand on his own legs as an independent businessman or landlord or whatever it be, he's a sudra.
Prabhupada: Yes. These are described in the Bhagavad-gita. I have not manufactured these things. These are sastra, that "He's brahmana," -- the qualification. "He's ksatriya," -- qualification. "He's vaisya," -- qualification. "He's sudra -- by qualification." And Narada Muni says, but we have to judge by the qualification. Yasya yal laksanam proktam pumso varnabhivyanjakam, yad anyatrapi drsyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiset: [SB 7.11.35] "These are the qualities of different caste. If it is found in other place, you should designate him according to the quality." Just like a man born of a brahmana family, but if he has got the sudra qualities, then he should be sudra. And a man born of a sudra family, if he has got the qualities of brahmana, then he must be designated as brahmana.
Guest (2): What about intermarriage between all the castes?
Prabhupada: Well, intermarriage, that has introduced according to the social system. But so far we are concerned, we are allowing intermarriage from any country, any... If he's Krsna conscious, we help him marry. There are so many intermarriages in our society. So try to understand this philosophy of Krsna consciousness and spread it so that there will be oneness -- one God, one scripture, one nation, one religion -- according to Vedic injunction. Not that we are manufacturing something. That is the Vedic injunction.
Guest (2): What is the speciality of Vedic injunction compared to Hebrew scriptures?
Prabhupada: Vedic injunction is, the ultimate goal of human life, to go back to home, back to Godhead. That's all. This is not... As... I have already explained that this is not our home, material world. We are spirit soul. Our real home is spiritual world. So in the lives, different species of life, 8,400,000's of species of life, they cannot understand it, that we are spirit soul, our home is in the spiritual world. They cannot understand it. That opportunity is available in this human form of life. Therefore if we don't take advantage of this information and prepare ourself accordingly, then we are losing the opportunity. Tad api aphala-janma. Anasrita govinda-carana-dvayam.(?)
Guest (2): But how does this differ from the Hebrew scriptures? Hebrews also say the same thing, you know, that you have fallen down from the heaven and go back...
Prabhupada: But Hebrew... Hebrew, Indian, there are... The aims is the same -- back to home, back to Godhead. The process may be different. The process may be different. Just like everyone wants some money. Without money he cannot exist. The process may be different, how he's earning money. Similarly, every religion, the aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Now the process may be different according to country, time, climate, men. That is another thing. But the... The same example. Either you are businessman or in service or working, craftsman, the aim is you require some money. Without money you cannot exist. This is crude example. Similarly, the aim is we are part and parcel of God. We... Unless we go back to home, back to Godhead, there cannot be any peace. That understanding is possible to develop in this human form of life, not in the animal form of life. Therefore every human being should take advantage of this human form of life and develop this idea of going back to home, back to Godhead. Either you do it through Hebrew religion or Christian religion or Hindu religion, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If your aim is... Just like at the present moment people want money. If he gets money it doesn't matter in which way he gets the money. Money we must have. Similarly, the aim should be fulfilled. Either you fulfill it through the Hebrew or through Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan, it doesn't matter. But if the aim is missed, then you miss everything. That is the definition in the Srimad-Bhagavata,
dharmah svanusthitah pumsam
visvaksena-kathasu yah
notpadayed yadi ratim
srama eva hi kevalam
 [SB 1.2.8]
Everyone has got his particular type of religion or occupation. That's all right. Dharma. Svanusthitah pumsam. The result will be... By executing your particular type of religion, the result must be there. The result is "How I shall go back to home, back to Godhead." If that desire is not developed, it is simply waste of time. You may profess this religion or that religion or this religion, or that religion. It doesn't matter. You are simply wasting time by following the dogmas and ritualistic this or that. That will not help you. Phalena pariciyate. Whether you have come to this consciousness, "What I am? I am not matter; I am spirit. I have to go back to my spiritual." That... That is wanted. So either you may be Hebrew or may be Hindu or Christian. We want to see whether that consciousness has arisen. If it is not, then you have simply wasted time. Either you be Hindu or brahmana or this or that, it doesn't matter. Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Simply wasting time.
Guest (2): But in order to really get any interest in any of these things, you should really believe that...
Prabhupada: It is not a question of believe. It is question of fact.
Guest (2): ...that there is another world and that you go there or you come back and all. This is a belief, isn't it?
Prabhupada: It is not belief. It is a fact. One who does not know, he thinks it is belief. That is ignorance.
Guest (2): So how do we...
Prabhupada: You have to learn it. You have to become student. How do you expect to learn it for nothing?
Guest (2): Learn what? Learn that there is...
Prabhupada: That is the process, Vedic process. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham [MU 1.2.12]. You have to learn. Just you learn so many things from teacher, similarly, these things also you have to learn.
Guest (2): In other words, this question of there being another world, it could be actually learned. There is no belief in word in that.
Prabhupada: It is a fact.
Guest (2): You could actually find out, experience yourself that there is another world.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, yes. Just like you have come to America. (laughter) Yes, similarly.
Guest (2): So you are saying there is a process by which you can see the other world.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Guest (2): Does this take a whole lifetime to learn?
Prabhupada: It takes only one minute. (laughter) If you are serious. If you are not serious, it will not be understood, even millions of years. That is the fact.
Guest (2): I see. It's so simple, then.
Prabhupada: If you are serious, then it is a one minute's business. And if you are not serious, it is not fulfilled in millions of years. That is the...
Guest (2): I see.
Devotee: What determines, Srila Prabhupada, if one is serious or one is not serious? What makes one...
Prabhupada: Well, this seriousness comes after many, many births. It is also not so easy. Rupa Gosvami says, tatra laulyam api mulyam ekalam janma-koti-sukrtair na labhyate. He wrote a verse, krsna-bhakti-rasa-bhavita matih kriyatam yadi kuto 'pi labhyate: "The krsna-bhakti, Krsna consciousness, this thing, if you can purchase somewhere, just immediately purchase it." Krsna-bhakti-rasa-bhavita matih kriyatam: "Just purchase." Yadi kuto 'pi labhyate. First of all, if you want to purchase, the things must be available. Yadi kuto. Therefore kuto 'pi, "If it is available, immediately purchase." Then next question is, "What is the value? What is the price I have to pay?" Then he said, tatra laulyam ekalam mulyam, "Simply your serious eagerness to have it. That is the price." "Oh, that I can have very easily." "No." Janma-koti-sukrtair na labhyate: "That laulyam, that seriousness, is not obtained after thousands of years' pious activities." It is so difficult. Janma-koti-sukrtair na labhyate. People are acting piously, but that kind of seriousness is not available even after executing pious activities for thousands of lives. So that seriousness is also very difficult, to become very serious that "In this life I shall finish my business and go home, back to home, back to Godhead." Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Krsna says, "After many, many births, when actually one becomes in knowledge, he surrenders unto Me."
Guest (2): Are we all part of Krsna?
Prabhupada: Yes, we are part. Yes, we are part of Krsna.
Guest (2): If we are all part of Krsna, then what does it matter whether we really worry about becoming Krsna conscious or not? We already are part of Krsna, so whether we are conscious or not, we are there, you know, and it really doesn't need any effort at all.
Prabhupada: Then you are part of human society. Then why you are trying to improve your position?
Devotee: Jaya.
Prabhupada: Why you are trying?
Guest (2): To be more powerful.
Prabhupada: Just see. You do not know. You have forgotten the power, part of Krsna. What is the function of part of Krsna. You are thinking you are part of this material world. That is the difficulty.
Guest (2): Yes, but that is what Krsna gave me, though.
Prabhupada: No, Krsna... You have taken it.
Guest (2): The moment my body is manufactured...
Prabhupada: Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Krsna says that.
Guest (2): Yes, that is provided He gives me that...
Prabhupada: Not "provided." There is no "provided." Krsna says this. This is Krsna's order, that "You give up all nonsense. Simply surrender unto Me." That is your business. But you are thinking, "No, I am part of this world. I must work in this world. I must have this. I must have that." That is your thinking. Krsna's order is, "Simply surrender unto Me." That's all. But you are thinking, "How can I surrender?" And that is your business. If you do not surrender, then you go. See to your own business. So whatever you are creating, you are creating by yourself. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So you are creating your fortune and misfortune, both. Krsna is giving you facilities. "All right, you want this? All right, take this."
Guest (2): How does this tie in with the other thing, saying that if you are destined to get something, you will get it. But now you are saying, "If you want it you'll get it." These two seem to be contradictory.
Prabhupada: No, Krsna... Not contradiction. You have created your destiny. You have got a certain type of body. So you must enjoy and suffer. And again, if you want something, you'll be offered another body. What is the difficulty to understand? Now you wanted something; you have got a particular type of body. You finish it. Now you want something more, you'll be... "Give me another type of body." Similarly, if you want Krsna, you'll be given a type of body where you can go to Krsna.
Guest (2): I see. So you are saying that if you ask for something now, you may not immediately get it. You may get it in another birth.
Prabhupada: That is natural. That is natural. Just like these children. If he says, "Give me one boy." Is it possible? He has to wait. (laughter) Suppose a girl is married. If the girl says, "Give me immediately boy," is it possible? When she's married there will be. Wait.
Guest (2): Maybe somebody like Kunti can do that.
Prabhupada: Well, everyone is not Kunti. So let us go. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego

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Devotion Is Action Without Designation

Devotion Is Action Without Designation

72/11/01 Vrndavana

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Pradyumna: (reading:) "...as given by Rupa Gosvami in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, can be summarized thus: his service is favorable and is always in relation to Krsna. In order to keep the purity of such Krsna conscious activities, one must be freed from all material desires and philosophical speculation. Any desire except for the service of the Lord is called material desire. And philosophical speculation refers to the sort of speculation which ultimately arrives at a conclusion of voidism or impersonalism. This conclusion is useless for a Krsna conscious person. Only rarely by philosophical speculation can one reach the conclusion of worshiping Vasudeva, Krsna. This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita itself. The ultimate end of philosophical speculation, then, must be Krsna, with the understanding that Krsna is everything, the cause of all causes, and that one should therefore surrender unto Him. If this ultimate goal is reached, then philosophical advancement is favorable, but if the conclusion of philosophical speculation is voidism or impersonalism, that is not bhakti."

Prabhupada: There is a verse in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: vasudeva-para veda vasudeva-param jnanam vasudeva-param gatim. So unless one is led to the conclusion vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], jnana-vairagya-karma, anything that you are trying to achieve, if it is not targeted to the realization of Vasudeva, then it... Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. That is the conclusion of Bhagavata. Whatever you do, the ultimate goal should be realization of Vasudeva, Krsna. Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. All Vedic conclusions should be ultimately to realize Vasudeva, Krsna. Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. This realization is achieved after many, many births of philosophical speculation, mystic yogic exercise or fruitive activities. Koti-karmi-madhye eka jnani srestha. To become karmi is the third-class stage of life. One has to make progress further, so that one may become self-realized, brahma-bhutah. So out of many, many karmis, one jnani, or one who has realized his identification, he's better. And out of many millions of jnanis who are trying to realize his self by philosophical speculation, brahma-jnana, so one mukta, or liberated soul, is better. And out of many thousands of liberated souls, it is said by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, it is very rare to find out a pure devotee of Krsna.

The conclusion is, a pure devotee of Krsna is picked up out of many, many liberated persons. Mukta-sangasya jayate. Krsna realization, bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam, mukta-sangasya jayate. Bhagavat-tattva, the truth, the Absolute Truth, which is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam. Tattva means truth, and that is Bhagavan. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti [SB 1.2.11]. Brahman realization is not all. One has to go further. Paramatma realization -- one has to go further. When one comes to realization of Bhagavan, sad-aisvarya-purna-bhagavan-Bhagavan means full will six kinds of opulences, person, sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah, sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1] -- that is ultimate goal of life. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah [Bg. 7.19]. Such kind of mahatma is very rare. That is the verdict of all Vedic literature, and confirmed by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu: koti-mukta-madhye durlabha krsna-bhakta. Krsna bhakta, a pure devotee of Krsna, is very rarely to be found out amongst the muktas, amongst the liberated souls. Others are trying to become liberated, but a Krsna-bhakta is above liberation. Pancama-purusartha. People are busy for dharma artha kama moksa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Adi 1.90]. Some of them are busy to become religious. Of course, without religious life, there..., there is no human society. Dharmena hina pasubhih samanah. Unless a society takes to religiosity, it is not human society. Therefore we see any civilized human society, there is a kind of religious system. It doesn't matter whether it is Hinduism, Christianism, or Buddhism, or Muhammadanism, but there must be a religious system. Without this system, that human society is not considered as human society. That is animal society. In the... Even I understand that in America the Red Indians, who are supposed to be not civilized, they had also a religious system. So maybe a perverted form of religious system. Similarly, in India also there are primitive races in the jungles, they have also... Religious system means approving the authority of some Supreme Being. That is religious system. So in the animal society there is no such conception that "There is God. We have got some relationship with God," what is that relationship. This type of discussion cannot be present in the animal society. So dharma artha kama moksa. Generally religious system is taken for improving social and economic condition. Artha. Artha means economy. Artha is required for sense gratification. We require economic development for our sense gratification. And when one is completely satisfied, then he can cultivate about spiritual realization, moksa, apavarga.

So dharmasya apavargyasya arthah na arthaya upakalpate. So dharma is not meant for developing economic condition. That is secondary. But dharma is meant for ultimate goal of liberation. People do not know that. People are not educated that what is the ultimate goal of life. Still, they take to religious life as a compromise between the contending elements, that "We must live peacefully under religious system." The aim is how to live in this material world peacefully. Sometimes religion and God is conceived in that way, that is, "If we have some conception of God, then we shall be moral, we shall be peaceful. Otherwise, there is no need of presenting God in the society." There are so many different opinions, different philosophers, different religious system, according to the modes of nature. But actually every system must be targeted towards realization of Krsna, or God. Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. That is Bhagavata-dharma. Bhagavata-dharma means realization of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Prahlada Maharaja recommended culture of this Bhagavata-dharma from the very beginning of life: kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavatan iha [SB 7.6.1]. That is the success of human form of life, to execute Bhagavata-dharma. The, the process... And dharma, as we have several times explained, dharma means the codes of Bhagavan. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19].

So this Krsna consciousness movement is directly touching the point. Not step by step. There is no time.

 

 In the Kali-yuga there is very little time to go step by step. Otherwise, there are twenty different types of religious scriptures, vimsati-prakasa, dharma-sastra. So who will read, and who will try to understand? There is no time. Prayena alpayusah kalau asmin yuge janah. People who are very short-living and they are not very enthusiastic for self-realization. Manda. Even they, somebody becomes interested in self-realization, they accept some wrong path. Mandah sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. They have got different matah, opinion or path. And the so-called swamis, they also support that "Whatever opinion you have got about religious system, that is all right." Yata mata tata patha. But actually, the fact is different. The fact is that one should take simply to the devotional path, bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. If you are actually serious to know God, or Krsna, then you must take to this process of devotional service. Without this you cannot understand. Not through karma, not through mystic yogic exercises, but through devotional service. Bhaktya mam abhijanati, yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. That is clearly stated in the Bhagavad... But people do not know it. Anartha upasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje. Bhakti-yogam, execution of bhakti-yoga, is the means of anartha upasama, subduing the anarthas. Material life means we have accumulated some unwanted things. Just like this material body -- this is also not wanted. But somehow or other, we have developed this, and as we have got this material body, we have got so many material necessities of life. So it is not that abruptly we have to give it up. But by yukta-vairagya, everything, the material activities, dovetailing with Krsna consciousness, it becomes gradually purified, and we come to the final stage of understanding Krsna. That is our success of life. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Karma, or fruitive activities, are sometimes understood to be ritualistic activities. There are many persons who are very much attracted by the ritualistic activities described in the Vedas. But if one becomes attracted simply to ritualistic activities without understanding Krsna, his activities are unfavorable to Krsna consciousness. Actually, Krsna consciousness can be based simply on hearing, chanting, remembering, etc. Described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam are nine different processes, besides which, everything done is unfavorable to Krsna consciousness. Thus one should always be guarding against falldowns."

Prabhupada: So we should directly take to the nine different processes of devotional service, sravanam kirtanam visnoh [SB 7.5.23]. That we are stressing specifically every time, that hearing about Krsna is very important. Sravanam. As it is described in the Bhagavatam, srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah [SB 1.2.17]. Srnvatam. Simply hearing, srnvatam, those who are hearing... Caitanya Mahaprabhu has also recommended, sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. One may stay in his position as a brahmana, as a ksatriya, as a vaisya, or as a sudra. Everyone can hear about Krsna. This assembly which we are holding, there is no such thing that only the brahmanas will come here, or the ksatriyas will come here. Anyone can come and hear about Krsna. That is the process of Krsna consciousness movement. We try to invite everyone, from every corner of the world, to hear about Krsna. And that is becoming successful also. Simply by hearing about Krsna -- Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare -- and reading Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, simply talking about Krsna, they are becoming successful. So we should take... In the Kali-yuga it is very difficult to go step by step. It is not possible. Therefore by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the easiest path has been recommended:

harer nama harer nama harer nama eva kevalam
kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha
 [Cc. Adi 17.21]

Actually, we cannot accept various paths for self-realization. That is not impossible. Sometimes, because we give stress directly to accept this devotional service, people are not very happy that we do not give any importance to the process of jnana and karma and yoga. We do not condemn, but they're very difficult. The yogic process... Especially in Western countries, they are very much fond of the word yoga. We are therefore publishing this book, Krsna Consciousness Is the Topmost Yoga. Actually it is so. So the yoga system or the jnana system or the karma-kanda system, we do not make them null and void, but it will be very much slow form of progress. It will take long, long time. Neither it is possible to execute yoga system or karma system very properly in this age. Therefore the best contribution to the people of this age is Krsna consciousness. Immediately take to... Directly take to Krsna and your life will be successful. Krsna also says, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. The yoga system, karma system, jnana system, they may be taken as different types of religious path, but Krsna recommends -- not only at the present moment, but eternally He recommends -- five thousand years ago, He said, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "I'll give you protection," aham tvam sarva-papebhyo. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Srila Rupa Gosvami has also mentioned in this definition of bhakti the word jnana-karmadi. This karmadi, or fruitive work, consists of activities which are unable to help one attain to pure devotional service. Many forms of so-called renunciation are also not favorable to Krsna conscious devotional service."

Prabhupada: Yes. Karma... Rupa Gosvami has directly recommended, anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Actually, we find so many yogis, jnanis, karmis, they cannot understand even what is the benefit of this Krsna consciousness movement. Because we say directly, "You take to devotional service," sometimes they are not satisfied. But what can be done? This is the process recommended. And we are preaching through the mercy of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has recommended that this process of Krsna-kirtana..., param vijayate krsna-sankir..., sankirtanam.

ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam
sreyah-kairava-candrika-vitaranam vidya-vadhu-jivanam
anandambudhi-vardhanam prapti-padam purnamrtasvadanam
sarvatma-snapanam param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam
 [Cc. Antya 20.12]

This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's blessings, param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam. So go anywhere and everywhere, chant Hare Krsna mantra, and you'll become victorious. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's blessings. It is not our invention. And practically we are getting result. All over the world, our only means is to chant Hare Krsna mantra. Recently we have become victorious, very recently in Melbourne. You know, our men were being arrested and prosecuted. But one, the chief clergyman, archbishop, he has recommended that "These people are very nice people, God conscious. Don't give them trouble." Yes. And the government has stopped harassing. Now we are free to move on the street and go anywhere. This recent news we have got from Melbourne. Madhudvisa Maharaja has sent this news. Similarly, we were harassed in London also, and other places. In USA also. San Francisco. I do not know whether we were harassed in New York, but more or less... And in Japan also, they are talking that "You become bona fide religious organization. Otherwise you cannot come on the street." So although there is harassment by the governing agents, still we are coming out successful. Param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam. All glories to the Sri-Krsna-Sankirtana! Practically. So you stick to this principle, go on chanting Hare Krsna mantra anywhere it is possible, and you'll be victorious. That is the blessings of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Believe in it and you'll be successful. Yes. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Srila Rupa Gosvami has also quoted a definition from the Narada-pancaratra as follows: 'One should be free from all material designations and must be cleansed of all material contamination by Krsna consciousness. He should be restored to his pure identity, where he engages his senses in the service of the proprietor of the senses.' So when our senses are engaged for the actual proprietor of the senses, that is called devotional service."

Prabhupada: Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti, devotional service, does not mean inertness. Not simply sitting down or meditate. It is activity, engaging all the senses. Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam. Hrsika means these senses -- not these senses, but purified senses. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Just like pranair arthair dhiyah vaca. Prana, life; artha, riches, money; dhiya, intelligence; and vaca, speeches. So everyone using... Just like for national cause people are engaging life, they are sacrificing life. So many, for attainment of independence in India, so many Indians gave up their life. Pranaih. So many people gave up their everything. We know during national movement, Mr. C. R. Das, a great leader of the Congress group, he sacrificed everything. He was a big, very big lawyer, barrister. He sacrificed his profession, he sacrificed his life -- everything. So as we are sacrificing everything for attainment of some so-called national independence, the same thing, if we sacrifice for Krsna, then our life becomes successful. Pranair arthair dhiya vaca sreya-acaranam sada.

So it is not inactivity. Caitanya Mahaprabhu or his followers, they were not inactive. They were acting. This Rupa Gosvami, he was so active that he could not sleep at night even for more than one and one half hour. They retired from the material activities. He was minister. He gave up his job and joined Caitanya Mahaprabhu in old age. He came to Vrndavana not to live a retired life, but a very active life.

nana-sastra-vicaranaika-nipunau sad-dharma-samsthapakau
lokanam hita-karinau tri-bhuvane manyau saranyakarau
radha-krsna-padaravinda-bhajananandena-mattalikau
vande rupa-sanatana raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopalakau

Here is, sitting, Sri Gosvamiji. He's coming from Gopala Bhatta Gosvami. So all these six Gosvamis, they were not inactive. They were always active. As we are active in the karma, karmi life, so bhakti life is also activity. It is not sitting down idly or gossiping. One must find out some job to serve Krsna. That is bhakti life. Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Sevanam means activity. Sevanam does not mean sit down idle, inert. No. As soon as seva... Seva means activity. One has to preach, one has to write, one has to do this, do that, cook, offer the prasadam, everything. Seva, activity.

So that activity and karmis' activity, there is difference. The karmi's activity is on upadhi. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." With this upadhi, we are acting. But bhakti means without upadhi. Sarvopadhi-virnirmuktam. Activity without upadhi. Working not as American. Working not as Indian. Working not as Hindu. Working not as Muslim. That is sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. If we think that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am American," that is with upadhi. When we purely think that "We are...," or "I am servant of Krsna. My only business is to satisfy Krsna," that activity is called bhakti. If I become interested in some party, that is not... Sometimes people criticize these American and European devotees, that they think that "They are American devotee; we are Hindu devotee. There is difference." This is not bhakti-marga. This is upadhi. Why you should think yourself as Hindu? Why you should think of others who have come from America as American? That is less intelligent. Krsna-bhakta... Vaisnave jati-buddhih. If one thinks of Vaisnava as belonging to this class, this nation, he has no vision. Naraki. That is called naraki-buddhih. Vaisnave jati-buddhih arcye siladhir gurusu nara-matir vaisnave jati-buddhih. If we think the Deity as made of stone and made of wood, arcye sila-dhir; gurusu, nara-matih, if we accept spiritual master as ordinary human being; vaisnave jati-buddhih, and if we take a Vaisnava as belonging to America or Europe or India... No. They are transcendental. Neither the Deity in the temple is stone, neither the spiritual master is ordinary human being, nor the Vaisnava belongs to any caste. This vision is perfect vision. When you come to this vision, that is bhakti. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. A bhakta has to become purified. Tat-paratvena, being dovetailed with the service of tat, om tat sat. Tat-param. This is the process of devotional service. One should not be designated "I am this," "I am that," "I am that." No. The world should unite. This Krsna consciousness movement is so nice that one should forget that he's Indian or Hindu or Christian or American or Indian. Everything should unite as servant of Krsna. That is bhakti-marga. Unfortunately, they distinguish between American Vaisnava and Indian Vaisnava: brahmana Vaisnava, sudra Vaisnava. No. A Vaisnava is Vaisnava. Visnur asya devatah iti vaisnava. One who has accepted Visnu as "my Lord," he has no designation. A Vaisnava has no such distinction. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170].

So this is the sutra given by Narada. Tat tenaiva vinirdiset [SB 7.11.35]. So we must follow the path of mahajana, the instruction of the acarya. Then we can become purified. And unless we are purified, there is no question of pure devotional service. Sa bhaktah prakrtah smrta. If one does not want to become advanced, if one does not want to become purified, then he remains a prakrta-bhakta. Prakrta-bhakta means executing devotional service under the instruction of spiritual master and the regulative principles of sastra, but he's still on the platform of material understanding. That is called prakrta-bhakta. A prakrta-bhakta cannot understand how another bhakta is transcendental. A prakrta-bhakta cannot understand that Vrndavana is always transcendental. Therefore Srila Jiva Gosvami has discussed this point in his Tattva-sandarbha, that we cannot accept any manufactured ideas. Because everyone is defective by the four defects of material life, we have to accept the version of Vedas, Puranas. He has tried to establish Puranas as Vedic supplementary. Others, they reject Puranas out of the Vedas. But Jiva Gosvami established. All the Gosvamis. Just like Rupa Gosvami has given, sruti-smrti-puranadi-pancaratriki-vidhim vina, aikantiki harer bhaktir utpatayaiva kalpate [Brs. 1.2.101]. It is utpata, disturbance. If you do not follow the principles of sruti, smrti, purana, pancaratriki-vidhi... Just like we were discussing this point, sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. This is pancaratriki-vidhi. So if we do not follow these principles... Without following these principles, the so-called devotional service, Hari-bhakti, utpata, simply disturbance, simply a disturbance. Therefore we have to follow the principles laid down by the Gosvamis, Sad-gosvamis. Vande rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopalakau. And then our attempt will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)

 

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From Low-Grade Society to the Ocean of Nectar

72/10/27 Vrndavana

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Pradyumna: (reading) "Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada and of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada by whose inspiration I have been engaged in the matter of compiling this summary study of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. This is the sublime science of devotional service as propounded by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who appeared 500 years ago in West Bengal, India, to propagate the movement of Krsna consciousness. Srila Rupa Gosvami begins his great book by offering his respectful obeisances unto Sri Sanatana Gosvami who is his elder brother and spiritual master, and he prays that Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu may be very pleasing to him."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pradyumna: "He further prays..."

Prabhupada: Our... Srila Rupa Gosvami wanted to please Sanatana Gosvami. Our duty is to please the superior, not the public. We are giving service to the public according to the direction of the superior authority. We do not manufacture any program of service. That is not our business. Whatever is ordered by the... Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He's Krsna Himself. Still, He was following the authorities. Sri Krsna, Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality, He was also referring to the Brahma-sutra: brahma-sutra-padais caiva viniscitam. So this is the way, that any bona fide spiritual propaganda must be following the footsteps of previous authority.

At the present moment, it has become a fashion to manufacture some idea. But that is not the Vedic way. Vedic way is to receive the message through parampara system. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayoh viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Not to deviate the parampara. So Sanatana Gosvami was taught by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu continually for two months personally in Benares, Varanasi. Therefore he's our authority. The Hari-bhakti-vilasa, the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya, they follow the principles of Hari-bhakti-vilasa. In that Hari-bhakti-vilasa Sanatana Gosvami recommends, tatha diksa-vidhanena dvijatvam jayate nrnam. Diksa-vidhana, by the process of diksa, a, any human being can be elevated to the position of a bona fide brahmana. Vidhanena. Vidhana. The very word is used, vidhana. Vidhana means bona fide process. Tatha diksa-vidhanena. There is another good suggestion: yatha kancanatam yati kamsa-rasa-vidhanena. Rasa. Rasa means ... Another meaning of rasa means... What is that? What is called? I forget. The metal...?

Devotee: Bell metal.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Pradyumna: Bell metal?

Prabhupada: No, not bell... That liquid metal.

Devotees: Mercury.

Prabhupada: Mercury. Mercury. Hydrox... What is called? Hydroid?

Devotee: Quicksilver?

Prabhupada: No. Another name is hydrogeroid. That is the chemical name of mercury. You know it. Hydrogeroid? Yes. Unguentum hydrogeroid. Yes. That is another name of the mercury. Hydrogeroid. So in Sanskrit it is called rasa. Rasayana. From mercury, rasa, the chemistry is called rasayana-sastra. Actually, rasayana-sastra, chemical composition, begins from mercury and sulphur. That is the beginning of chemical composition. So rasa-vidhanena, by chemical interaction of sulphur and mercury, if you can add tin and copper, then it becomes gold. You can manufacture gold, provided you know the process, how to mix up copper, tin and mercury. With via media of sulphuric acid. Sulphuric acid is the mother of chemicals. Without sulphur, you cannot make any chemical composition. Therefore all chemical composition are called sulphate, sulphite, like that. So Sanatana Gosvami gives this idea of chemical composition. It appears that he knew how to work with chemicals.

yatha kancanatam yati
kamsa-rasa-vidhanatah
tatha diksa-vidhanena
dvijatvam jayate nrnam

So we are trying to follow Sanatana Gosvami. By diksa-vidhanena, by initiating persons any, from anywhere. It does not matter. Because in this age, Kali-yuga, the diksa-vidhana is performed according, according to Pancaratrika-vidhi. Not Vaidika-vidhi. Vaidika-vidhi is very strict. Unless one is bona fide son of a dvija, the initiation was not given. To the sudras, there was no initiation. A brahmana ksatriya, vaisya. So these are the Vedic process. So in the Kali-yuga, because it is to be understood that everyone is a sudra, therefore Vaidika-vidhana cannot be applied. Vaidika-vidhana requires that one must be born by a brahmana, ksatriya. Then he's eligible for being initiated. But in the Kali-yuga, that is not possible. Therefore the Pancaratriki-vidhi is accepted. Narada-Pancaratra. Tatha diksa-vidhanena. This diksa-vidhana, recommended by Sanatana Gosvami, means Pancaratriki-vidhi. Now Rupa Gosvami says in his Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu,

sruti-smrti-puranadi-
pancaratriki-vidhim vina
aikantiki harer bhaktir
utpatayaiva kalpate
 [Brs. 1.2.101]

Without undergoing the process of sruti -- means Vedas -- smrti, the Puranas, and other corollary literatures, Bhagavad-gita, Mahabharata, Smrti, Manu-smrti, the laws given by Manu, Parasara... So Hari-bhakti, devotional service to the Lord, must be approved by Vedas, Puranas. Pancaratriki-vidhi. Otherwise, any show of devotional service is simply disturbance. Anyone can manufacture. And it is being supported by some very big missionary activities: yata mata tata pata. You can manufacture your way of religious principles. But that is not Vedic way. Vedic way is evam parampara-praptam [Bg. 4.2]. Although we are initiating people from low-grade society, still, following the principles of Pancaratriki-vidhi, injunction of the Gosvamis. Therefore it is bona fide. Bhagavata-vidhi, Pancaratriki-vidhi, they are bona fide vidhi. So Sanatana Gosvami... Rupa Gosvami, first offers his respectful obeisances to his elder brother, Sanatana Gosvami, because Rupa Gosvami accepted him as spiritual master. And he was initiated by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sanatana Gosvami. Rupa Gosvami also. So he offers his respectful obeisances to Sanatana Gosvami. Go on.

Pradyumna: "He further prays that by residing in that ocean of nectar he may always feel transcendental pleasure in the service of Radha and Krsna."

Prabhupada: Yes. "Ocean of nectar." The Mayavadi philosophers, generally they give this example that the, all the rivers, they flow down to the ocean. This example is generally given that when the river mixes with the ocean, it doesn't matter which course it is following. After all, it is coming to the ocean, merging into the ocean. So that is ultimate liberation. But this analogy... Analogy, if you give some analogy, you must consider all the similar points. That is the way of analogy. The more you have got similar points, then the analogy is perfect. So the rivers merging into the ocean. Then you must take further consideration that the superficial water mixing with the ocean is again evaporated. The water is evaporated by scorching heat of the sun. Just like now we see cloud in the sky. This is nothing but evaporated water from the sea. So the water which merged into the water and into the ocean of the, water of the ocean, now it is evaporated in the sky. And again it will fall down. And then again glide to the ocean. So this is called avagamana, coming and going, coming and going. But our Vaisnava philosophy is not to merge into the water, but keep your identity and go deep into the water. So that you may not be evaporated. The fish and the aquatic animals within the water, they are not evaporated. They are not going to become cloud and again fall down. Therefore Sanatana, Rupa Gosvami says, "He further prays that by residing in the ocean of nectar he may always feel transcendental pleasure..."

Our philosophy is go back to home, back to Godhead. Not in the spiritual sky. Paravyoma. Spiritual sky, there is chance of falling down. Why chance? It is sure. Those who are merging into the Brahman effulgence, the sastra says that they again fall down. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32]. Aruhya krcchrena. They, jnanis, they undergo severe austerities, penances to merge into the existence of impersonal Brahman. But they fall down again. They fall down again because they have no shelter. Anadhrta-yusmad-anghrayah. As, as in this sky, there are many planets. You can go with high speed to the Moon planet or Venus planet. But if you have no shelter to stay there, you come back again on this earthly planet, that is practically experienced, similarly you may merge into the Brahman effulgence. Just like our plane goes very high and, at a certain point, we see it is invisible, merged. Actually, it is not merged. Our eyes cannot see any more. They take it as merge.

Therefore Jiva Gosvami, this merging principle, he has explained: just like a green bird enters into a green tree, it, it appears that the bird is no more existing. To the imperfect eyes. But the bird is existing. We cannot see. Both the tree and the bird being green, we see it has merged. Because the spiritual sky and the spiritual living being, a small, it merges it does not merge. It is there. The individuality is there. And because this individuality, fragment of the Supreme Brahman, is eternal, is eternal, sanatana... It is not that spirit can be cut into pieces. That is not possible. So we are fragmental parts. That means eternally we are so, individual. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). We are one of the nityas. There are innumerable nityas and cetanas, the living entities, part and parcel of the supreme living entity, Krsna. They're all individual.

Krsna also says in the Bhagavad-gita, "My dear Arjuna, do not think that I, you, or all these soldiers and kings who have assembled in this battlefield, they were not existing in the past. They were. And they are existing at present. And similarly they will exist in the future." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. So where is the question of merging? And loss of individuality? The individuality remains. It remained in the past. It is, at the present moment, it is continuing. And in the future also, they will remain, the same way. This is clearly explained in the second chapter of Bhagavad-gita. So merging does not mean, always, that losing one's individuality. The individuality's there. Therefore the theory of merging into the existence of impersonal Brahman is to stay there for some time, again fall down. Just like the same example that the water of the rivers, they merge into the ocean, but again it is evaporated, in the sky, and it falls. Again goes through the river, merges. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. This is going on. One mani..., once manifested, and again merging. This is going on.

So our philosophy is that once going into the ocean, no more coming back. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. That is our philosophy. If we once go in the spiritual world, we do not like to come back. We stay with Krsna and dance with Him, or play with Him, or serve with, serve Him as tree, as plant, as water, as cows, as land, as cowherd boys, as father, mother, or as gopis. This is our philosophy. Once we go to Krsna, we live forever with Him in either of these capacities. Let me live at Vrndavana in any capacity. It doesn't matter. But live there. Therefore he says that "He further prays that by residing in that ocean of nectar he may always feel eternally continually, without any cessation..." Anandamayo 'bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). To remain anadamaya. That is the principle of Vaisnava philosophy. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Let us offer our respectful obeisances to all the great devotees and acaryas or holy teachers, who are compared with sharks in the great ocean of nectar and who do not care for the various rivers of liberation. Impersonalists are very fond of merging into the supreme, like rivers that come down and merge into the ocean. The ocean can be compared with liberation and the rivers with all the different paths of liberation. The impersonalists are dwelling in the river water, which eventually comes to mix with the ocean. They have no information, however, that within the ocean, as within the rivers, there are innumerable aquatic living entities. The sharks who dwell in the ocean do not care for the rivers which are gliding down into it."

Prabhupada: Yes. The shark, big fish, shark, big body, they have no place to come into the river, come back. There is no place. Big crocodile, big sharks, they do not come to the river. They constantly remain in the ocean. Go on. Yes.

Pradyumna: "The devotees eternally live in the ocean of devotional service, and they do not care for the rivers. In other words, those who are pure devotees always remain in the ocean of transcendental loving service to the Lord and have no business with the other processes which are compared to the rivers that only gradually come to the ocean. Srila Rupa Gosvami prays to his spiritual master Srila Sanatana Gosvami for the protection of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, the ocean of the pure nectar of devotional service, from the argumentative logicians who unnecessarily meddle in the science of service to the Lord. He compares their arguments and logic to volcanic eruptions in the midst of the ocean."

Prabhupada: Yes. Na tams tarkena yojayet. Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet. Simply by arguments, logic, you cannot understand Krsna. That is the Vedic injunction. Tarko apratistho. You cannot establish the truth by simple logic and arguments. You may be very great logician, but somebody may come who is greater logician than you, and he defeats you. That is going on. Tarko apratistha srutayo vibhinnam. Now, if you read the Vedas, you'll find some contradiction. Not contradiction. But to the neophyte, it appears to be contradiction. Just like we have cited the example that animal stool is impure, but cow dung is pure. So by logic you can say that "Cow dung is also the stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" But in Vedas you'll find such things. Therefore by simple studying, without surrendering yourself to the spiritual master, you'll find all these contradictions and you'll be bewildered. Srutayo vibhinna. They are not vibhinna. But to our limited knowledge, sometimes they appear as vibhinnam, different. Srutayo vibhinnam nasau munir yasya matam na bhinnam. And you won't find a philosopher who does not agree, who does not disagree with our philosophers.

Therefore dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the footsteps of great acaryas. That is the way. These mahajanas are described in the sastra like Lord Brahma, Lord Siva, svayambhur naradah sambhuh kapilah kumaro manuh [SB 6.3.20]. They are all mentioned. So you follow any one of these great personalities, Brahma... Brahma is the greatest personality within this universe, and he has got his sampradaya which is known as Brahma-sampradaya. Similarly Lord Siva has also a sampradaya which is called Rudra-sampradaya. Similarly, Narada-Pancaratra, Kumara-sampradaya. So follow the sampradaya. Sampradaya vihina te mantras te viphalam matah. If you do not follow any bona fide sampradaya, then your path of spiritual advancement will be baffled. You will simply waste your time. Viphalam matah. So we should follow the footsteps of great acaryas. Then our progress is positive. There is no fear.

So to take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Just like Rupa Gosvami's described, describing herewith that he wants to take shelter of the ocean, deep into the ocean, and he doesn't care for the rivers. And the, what is called? Bharavagni (?)? There is some whirling pool in the water. That is compared with the arguments. Sometimes these logicians, they create argumental calamity in the process of devotional service. But Rupa Gosvami recommends that we should not be deviated by the arguments, karmis, jnanis and yogis. Let them do their own business. We do not care for them. We give them respect as far as possible, but we don't, don't accept the path of karma-jnana-yoga. Jnana-karmady-anavrtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Jnana-karmady-anavrtam. Anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. We should not be deviated by the process of karma-jnana-yoga. That is pure devotional service, suddha-bhakti. Suddha-bhakti. We should stay. We should fix up in suddha-bhakti path. That is the recommendation of Srila Rupa Gosvami. Go on.

Pradyumna: "In the midst of the ocean such volcanic eruptions can do very little harm. Similarly, those who are against devotional service to the Lord and who put forward many philosophical theses about the ultimate transcendental realization cannot disturb this great ocean of devotional service."

Prabhupada: Go on.

Pradyumna: "The author of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami, very humbly submits that he is just trying to spread Krsna consciousness all over the world, although he humbly thinks himself unfit for this work. That should be the attitude of all preachers of the Krsna consciousness movement, following in the footsteps of Srila Rupa Gosvami. We should never think of ourselves as great preachers, but should always consider that we are simply instrumental to the previous acaryas, and simply by following in their footsteps, we may be able to do something for the benefit of suffering humanity."

Prabhupada: Yes. Just like Narottama dasa Thakura says, tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa. Tandera carana-sevi. Our main business is..., (uproar in background, sounds like monkey attacked audience) (pause) Hut! Hut! (laughter, applause) So our main business is to serve the acaryas. This Krsna consciousness movement means why..., we are trying to serve the acaryas. Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His direct disciples, the Sad-gosvamis, and their disciples. Rupa-raghunatha-pade haibe akuti. That is required.

tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa
janame janame mora ei abhilasa

So this society is attempting to create a society of devotees all over the world, without any discrimination of caste, creed, color. One must be a devotee of Krsna. Yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. One must know the science of Krsna. Then he can preach to others. Sei guru haya. That is our purpose.

People may not misunderstand our propagation that we are proselytizing some persons to Hinduism. Yesterday one so-called jnani came to me, and he challenged me that "Swamiji, formerly the Christians used to convert the Hindus and the Muhammadans used to convert the Hindus into Muhammadanism or Christianism. Now you are converting the Christians into Hinduism. Then where is the difference between their activities and your activities?" So this fool does not know this is not making a person from Christian to Hindu. This is not the process. We are not interested. I never said in any meeting in the Western countries that "Hindu religion is better than your Christian religion. You give up your Christian religion and come to Hindu religion." No, that was not my propaganda. There are many old students here present. They may remember. I never made propaganda. Rather when they inquired one can attain perfection by following Christian principles, I said yes. So our propaganda is not to proselytize people from Christian to Hinduism. Our propaganda is to make everyone know this fact, that everyone is eternally servant of Krsna. That is our propaganda. Jivera svarupa haya nitya krsna dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is our propaganda. We are trying to convince people that "Your original position is servant of Krsna. You have now forgotten that. You revive your Krsna consciousness, and you'll become happy." That is our propaganda.

Do not misunderstand that we are trying to spread Hinduism. Hinduism is a fictitious term. Because there is no fixed-up conclusion. Somebody's accepting this, somebody... Even the Jains and the Sikhs and many other sub-religions, they are also ruled by the Hindu rules, Hindu law. So actually this word Hindu is given by the Muhammadans. We don't find this word in the Vedic literature, Hindu. It is later, I mean to say, prakrta. Or in Bhagavad-gita you won't find the word Hindu. Or in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Or any other Vedic literature. This is the convention of latest age. Actually, we, the followers or Vedic principles, our system is varnasrama-dharma, four varnas and four asramas. This is, this can be applicable. But varnasrama-dharma is applicable in any, in anywhere. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. The creation of God... Just like sun. Sun is creation of God. Sun is visible everywhere. Not that something American sun and something Indian sun. No. The sun is the same. Similarly, catur-varnyam, the four principles of division, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, and sudra, they are everywhere. It is not the monopoly of India.

Anywhere there are intelligent class of men, God conscious men, they are called brahmanas. Anywhere who are prepared for the right cause, administrator, ksatriyas. Anywhere who are interested in business, trade, agriculture, they are called vaisyas. And anywhere who are simply satisfied by serving others, he's called sudra. So our principle is not to proselytize from Christian to Hindu or Muhammadan to Hindu. We are teaching simply how to revive his own constitutional position to become servant of Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness movement. So it is applicable anywhere and everywhere. It is not that it is monopoly of India or for the Hindus. No. And actually it is being accepted, practically. In all countries. Even from all religious sect. In our Society there are boys and girls, they are coming from Christian group, Jews group, Muhammadan group, but when they come here, all of them become the servant of Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => The Nectar of Devotion -- Vrndavana, October 27, 1972

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

How have we fallen in this material world?

How have we fallen in this material world?

Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.1
Tokyo, April 20, 1972

There is no audio file for this lecture

 

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Pradyumna: (chanting verse) Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Devotees: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: It is sandhi? Na ghateta artha. It has been lost? Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Again, recite the whole sloka.

Pradyumna: (devotees repeating)

sri suka uvaca
atma-mayam rte rajan
parasyanubhavatmanah
na ghatetartha-sambandhah
svapna-drastur ivanjasa
 [SB 2.9.1]

Svapna. Drastur. Svapna-drastur. Iva. Anjasa. Ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa.

Pradyumna: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Now read again.

Pradyumna: Whole thing?

Prabhupada: No, this same verse. Practice it. In this way you practice one mantra daily. Each mantra will purify you hundred yards daily. Go forward. These mantras are very powerful, given by Vyasadeva Gosvami, vibrated. And spoken by... Suka-mukhad drava-samyutamrtam. That is explained in the beginning. Just like a ripened fruit in the tree is already very sweet, and if it is touched by the beak of the parrot, it becomes sweeter. These are natural course. If the parrot touches the fruit, he cuts little by his beak, beak. Beak, you call beak? Then it becomes still sweeter. Suka-mukhad drava-samyutam. Similarly, Srimad-Bhagavatam is already sublime, transcendental. And when it is spoken through the mouth of Sukadeva Gosvami, it becomes still sweet, just like the fruit. The parrot is also called suka. It is called suka-paksi, suka bird. So this comparison is given. As the fruit becomes still sweeter by the touch of the beak of the parrot, similarly, Sukadeva Gosvami, because it is already spoken by Vyasadeva, ripened fruit, the experienced contribution of Vyasadeva, all the Vedic literatures, but when it is spoken through the parampara system of Sukadeva Gosvami, it becomes still sweeter.

Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended to study Srimad-Bhagavatam from bhagavatam. Bhagavata para giya bhagavata sthane. Bhagavata means the grantha-bhagavata, book bhagavata... Bhagavata means about Krsna. Bhagavan is Krsna. And anything in relationship with Krsna is called Bhagavata. So the devotee is also in relationship with Krsna. He is also called bhagavata. Maha-bhagavata. Those who are highly advanced, or first-class devotees, they are called maha-bhagavata. So this Bhagavatam, it is the essence of the Vedic knowledge and when it is received through the parampara system of pure devotee, then it becomes still more sweet than before. That is the purport.

So we should try to learn, get it by heart, at least one sloka, two slokas in a week. And if we chant that... Just like you are chanting so many songs, similarly, if we chant one or two verses of Srimad-Bhagavatam, that will make you very quickly advanced for spiritual realization. We are therefore taking so much trouble to get this transliteration, the meaning, so that the reader may take advanced step, full advantage of the mantra. It is not that to show some scholarship, that "I know so much Sanskrit." No. It is just offered with humility to learn the mantra because one who will chant the mantra... They are all transcendental vibration. Just Hare Krsna mantra... This is maha-mantra, but they are also mantras, all the verses from Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, spoken by Krsna, spoken by... Bhagavata also, spoken by Krsna. Vyasadeva is incarnation of Krsna. They're also mantras, infallible instructions. So try to get it by heart, chanting. Either you chant by seeing the book or get it by heart, it is all the same. But try to chant one, two slokas daily. Chant.

Pradyumna: (chants with devotees responding)

sri suka uvaca
atma-mayam rte rajan
parasyanubhavatmanah
na ghatetartha-sambandhah...
 [SB 2.9.1]

Prabhupada: (correcting) Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Like that. It is written like that?

Pradyumna: Ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: artha, artha separated?

Pradyumna: No. Together. Ghatetartha.

Prabhupada: No. Ghatetartha-sambandhah. It should, should not be. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Like that. Ta should be long. Ta. Ghateta artha-sambandhah. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Is that all right?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupada: So pronounce like that.

Pradyumna: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: Loud. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Pradyumna: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: Yes. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Devotees: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Pradyumna: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Oh. Again pronounce.

Pradyumna: Sri suka uvaca (repeats verse)

Prabhupada: Very important verse. Now we shall go to the words and meaning. Again recite. Sri suka uvaca.

Devotees: (repeat verse)

Prabhupada: Once again. Do it again.

Pradyumna: (repeats verse)

Prabhupada: Again. (devotees repeat verse again) Anyone can recite? All right. See the book and recite.

Syamasundara: Sri-suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah.

Prabhupada: Parasya. The transliteration is the long a. You have seen? You just try to follow the transliteration. That will be easier.

Syamasundara: Parasyanu...

Prabhupada: Parasyanubhava, bhavatmanah. Atma.

Syamasundara: Yes. Long a over a. Atmanah.

Prabhupada: Yes. Now, beginning.

Syamasundara: Parasyanu...

Prabhupada: No. First line. (devotees repeating)

Syamasundara: Sri suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah.

Prabhupada: Read it again.

Syamasundara: Sri suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah na ghatetartha...

Prabhupada: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. Next. Next. You read. Go on. One after another. (continues devotee reciting, Prabhupada correcting) You read the transliteration. The thing is hearing the meter and repeat. That's all. The writing is already there, transliteration. Simply you have to hear the written. Just like you have chanted so many verses, songs, by hearing. The hearing is very important. A child learns another language simply by hearing, pronunciation, hearing. That is natural. If we hear one thing repeatedly, you will learn. You will learn. So one has to hear little attentively. Then it will be easy. There is no difficulty. Just like you are singing our song in tune, (sings) samsara-davanala-lidha-loka **. This is by hearing. So simply you have to hear. Therefore whole Vedic sastra is called sruti. It is a process of hearing. (coughing) This is a disease of old age. These are the warnings that the body is getting rotten. Go on. (recitation continues) Next. Each one of you. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah svapna-drastur ivanjasa. What is the anjasa spelling?

Devotee: I-v-a-n-j-a-s-a. Ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Long a or short a?

Devotee: Long a.

Prabhupada: Yes. Ivanjasa. Anjasa. Anjasa means wholesale. Go on. (recitation and corrections continue) Na ghateta artha sambandhah, combined together it becomes na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Tartha. What is the spelling? Tartha?

Devotee: T, long a, r-t-h-a.

Prabhupada: Of tha? What is the...?

Devotee: T-a-r-t-h-a. Na ghata...

Prabhupada: T-h-a. There must be r.

Pradyumna: Yes. Ghatetartha. G-h-a-t-e-t-a-r...

Prabhupada: T-a-r. Yes. T-a, artha. So you were missing that r. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. All right. Next. (recitation continues) Get it next. Come here. So you have to study like that. So many slokas, I am taking so much labor. If you do not read it carefully... It is not for that I am making business, for selling only, and not for my students. You must all read like this, practice. Why so much trouble is being taken, word to word meaning and then transliteration? If you chant this mantra, that vibration will cleanse the atmosphere. And wherever you go, in any part of the world, if you can chant this mantra, oh, you'll be received like God. It is so nice. And in India he'll actually receive like Gods if you chant this mantra. They will so offer their respects, so many. Veda-mantra. Next chant. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. Next, next. Bhanu prabhu (Bhanu recites) Thank you very much. He has pronounced very nicely. So he will teach you. Yes. Next. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. Yes. In this way, each one of you, you chant and others will follow. Then one or two days, you get the sloka by heart. You can chant. It is not difficult. Now read the word meanings and translation.

Karandhara: "Sri-sukah uvaca -- Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said; atma --  the Supreme Personality of Godhead; mayam -- the energy; rte --  without; rajan -- O King..."

Prabhupada: Rajan.

Karandhara: Rajan -- O King.

Prabhupada: It is address, addressing. Nominative is raja and addressive is rajan. Go on.

Karandhara: Parasyasya...

Prabhupada: Parasya.

Karandhara: Parasya.

Prabhupada: Parasya. Yes.

Karandhara: "Parasya -- of the pure soul; anubhava-atmanah --  of the purely conscious; na -- never; ghateta -- it can so happen; artha -- meaning; sambandhah -- relation with the material body; svapna -- dream; drastuh -- of the seer; iva -- like it; anjasa -- completely."

Prabhupada: Anjasa.

Karandhara: "Anjasa -- completely. Translation: Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O King, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no meaning to the relationship of the pure soul in pure consciousness with the material body. It is just like the dreamer seeing his own body working."

Prabhupada: So, purport?

Karandhara: "Purport. The question of Maharaja Pariksit is perfectly answered as to how a living entity began his material life, although he is apart from the material body and the mind."

Prabhupada: It is a very important question. Pariksit Maharaja inquired... Many people inquired that "How the living entity was with Krsna, he became fallen in this material world?" Is not done? This question is raised? So this question is answered here, that "How the living entity who was with Krsna became fallen down in contact with this material qualities?" So this is the answer. Read the translation.

Karandhara: "Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O king, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead..."

Prabhupada: It is simply the influence of the material energy, nothing. Actually he has not fallen. Another example given is given. Just like the moon is covered with scattered cloud, the passing cloud. You have seen. Everyone has experience. The cloud passes, and it appears that the moon is moving. Have you seen this?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupada: Actually the moon is not moving. It is a maya, illusion. It appears that the moon is moving. But similarly, the living entity, because he is spiritual spark of the Supreme, it has not fallen. It has not fallen. But he is thinking, "I am fallen. I am material." That is the reason. He is thinking, "I am this body." Actually the body has no connection with me. That is experienced, that the body has no connection with the soul. The body is changing, dying. But I am the same. The same example, the moon: The cloud is passing over in different way. The moon is far away from the cloud, and it has nothing to do with the cloud, but it appears the moon is moving. [break] Try to understand. Have questions and answer. It is very important thing. Atma-mayam rte rajan. Except atma-maya, the illusory energy... It is the maneuver or handling of the illusory energy of Krsna. This illusory energy develops when we forget Krsna. That's all. It is... In other words, this illusory identification of me with the body is simply due to my forgetfulness. We wanted to forget, we wanted to give up Krsna and wanted to enjoy this material world. Therefore Krsna is giving us...

Just like when you play some part in a drama, if you feel that "I am king," then you can talk very nicely. And if you feel that "I am Karandhara," then you cannot play nicely king. Is it not? Feeling must be there. If you are playing the part of a king, then you must have the same courage and belief that "I am king." You have to forget that you are Karandhara. Then your part will be very nicely played. It will be appreciated. But if you think simultaneously that "I am Karandhara. I am taking, playing the part of the king," then you cannot play. So because we wanted to play the part of Krsna, enjoyer, Krsna is giving us chance that "You feel like Me." -- "I am king. I am Krsna. I am God." (laughter) All these rascals, those who are feeling like that, "I am master. I am king. I am Krsna. I am God," they are all simply in that feeling only. That's all. And this feeling is created by Krsna: "All right. You want to play the part of a king. I shall train you in such a way." Just like director means, dramatic director means, he creates a feeling. His direction is nothing but how to feel.

Sometimes we played in our younger age Caitanya-lila. I introduced. And one big director, Amrtalal Chosa, he was just like grandfather. He was one of the, just like in England Shakespeare and others, big, big dramatic, well-known persons. This Amrtalal Chosa and Girish Chandra Chosa, they introduced in India theatric... So we called him to give us direction. He was giving us direction, and repeatedly he was telling that "You feel like that," especially to me. "You feel like that." So actually, when we played according to his direction, the audience were all crying. And we could not understand how they cried. We could not understand. On the stage when we played, it was so perfect that all audience were crying. Actually we saw they were smearing over their eyes with... But the whole thing is artificial, but the effect to the audience became so nice. So similarly, we are... Actually we have nothing to do with this material world, But we have been trained by the illusory energy in such a way that we are thinking, "I am Indian. I am American. I am this. I am that. I am brahmana. I am sudra. I have to do this. I have got so much duty," all these illusions, simply thinking. We have nothing to do with all this nonsense, but still, we are taking it very serious. "I have to do like that. I have to do like that. I am this. I am that." That's all. That is explained. Atma-mayam rte rajan: "Except the influence of that atma-maya, the illusory energy of Krsna..." Atma-maya. Read. Atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanu. Read it?

Karandhara: Parasyanubhavatmanah.

Prabhupada: Parasyanubhavatmanah. Na ghateta artha-sambandha. There cannot be any relation at all. Na ghateta. Cannot be. Artha sambandhah. Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. The very exact example is given, svapna-drastuh. Just like a man seeing dream: "Oh, there is tiger, tiger, tiger, tiger! Save me!" He is crying. Another man is, "Where is tiger? Why you are crying? Where is tiger?" But he, in the dream, he is actually feeling: "The tiger has attacked me." Therefore this example is given, na ghatetartha-sambandhah. There cannot be any meaning of this relationship except like a man dreaming and he is creating a situation. He is dreaming there is a tiger and he is creating a situation, fearful situation. Actually there is no cause of fear. There is no tiger. That situation is created by dream. Actually there is no tiger. Similarly we have created this material world and activity. People are running, "Oh..., sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh," identifying that "Oh, I am the manager. I am the factory owner. I am this, I am that. We have got his politics. We have to defeat such competitors." All these things are created exactly like that, svapna-drastur ivanjasa, just like a man is creating his particular situation simply by dream. That's all.

So the answer is, when somebody asks you that "When one has become in contact with this material nature?" He has not become in contact. He is thinking by the influence of the external energy. Just like the same example: A man is dreaming; there is no contact with tiger. Actually he has no contact with that. Similarly, actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are, become... Try to understand understand. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Krsna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krsna, so Krsna has given an opportunity: "All right. Imitate. You want to be imitation king in the stage. So feel like this. Play like this. Do like this. People will applaud. 'Oh, a very nice king, very nice.' " That is the... So everyone in this material world, they are playing some part. They wanted, "I want to be prime minister." "All right." "I want to become very big business magnate." "I want to be leader." "I want to be a philosopher." "I want to be a scientist." So all this nonsense, they are trying to play -- Krsna is giving him the opportunity: "All right." But it is a nonsense, all nonsense. Simple dreaming. Just like you are dreaming. Next moment when the dream is gone, everything is finished. No more tiger, no more jungle, no more... Everything is finished. Similarly, so long this body is continuing, I am thinking, "I am a responsible leader, I am this, I am that." But as soon as this body is finished, oh, these are (indistinct) gone.

Sarva-haras caham. The death means... Krsna says, "I am death. I take it away, all, everything. Gone." Now just think of our past life. Suppose I was a king or something like that. From Bhrgu-samhita it was ascertained. They said -- I do not know -- that I was a big physician in my last life, very spotless character, no sins, like that. He explained me. So it may be. But actually I have no remembrance that I was a physician. So what do we know? I might have been a very big physician, influential physician, having a good practice, but where is all...? All gone. So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krsna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krsna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all," immediately he becomes liberated. Exactly like that: as soon as you... Sometimes we do that. When the fearful dreaming becomes too much intolerable, we break the dream. We break the dream when it becomes intolerable. Similarly, we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the point of Krsna conscious. "Oh, Krsna is my eternal master. I am His servant." That's all. This is the way. Actually we are not fallen. There cannot be any fallen. The same example: Actually there is no tiger; it is dreaming. Similarly, our fallen condition is also dreaming. We are not fallen. We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At any moment. So if you study all these verses very nicely, you get all this knowledge quickly. Now what is the purport? Come on.

Karandhara: "The spirit soul is distinct from the material conception of his life."

Prabhupada: Yes. Distinct. Always distinct. Next?

Karandhara: "But he is absorbed in such a material conception because of being influenced by the external energy of the Lord, called atma-maya. This is already explained in the First Canto in connection with Vyasadeva's realization of the Supreme Lord and His external energy. The external energy is controlled by the Lord and the living entities are controlled by the external energy."

Prabhupada: Krsna says, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te: [Bg. 7.14] "As soon as one surrenders unto Me, he has no more illusion." Mayam etam taranti. Immediately. So people are conditioned, encaged. So many big, big words The Mayavadis, they are undergoing austerities or penances just to become liberated. Yogis, they are also trying to become one. So many endeavors are going on. But the simple process is, as soon as you surrender, that you are not fallen, "It was illusion. I was dreaming. I am Krsna's," finished. All gone. "I am Krsna's. I am Krsna's eternal servant. These are all nonsense" -- he immediately becomes liberated. Just try to understand. Immediately, within a second. Liberation can be attained within a second, provided we abide by the order of Krsna. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen. So we have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated. There is no Is there any difficulty to understand? Just see how important this verse. It is already there, but you are not reading. Each verse, read every day carefully. Try to assimilate, understand, and you will get more profit, every day, hundred yards forward, hundred yards forward, yes. They are so important verses. How nicely composed by Vyasadeva. In two lines the whole thing is explained. This is called sastra. In two lines. Then read the purport.

Karandhara: "The external energy is controlled by the Lord and the living entities are controlled by the external energy by the will of the Lord. Therefore, although the living entity is purely conscious in his pure state, he is subordinate to the will of the Lord, being influenced by the external energy of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gita also the same thing is confirmed, that the Lord is present within the heart of every living entity and all consciousness and forgetfulness of the living entity are influenced by the Lord."

Prabhupada: Yes. Because... Now, people may say that, "Why Krsna within the heart gives one type of consciousness to one, and another type of consciousness...?" Because I wanted. I wanted to forget Krsna, so Krsna is giving consciousness: "All right, you can forget Me in this way." That is His kindness. Just like the Mayavadis, the so-called yogis and karmis, they wanted to forget. Krsna is giving him intelligence. "All right. You forget Me like this." That's all. Go on. And if you want to again revive your relationship, Krsna will give you intelligence. Buddhi-yogam dadami tam yena mam upayanti te: "I shall give intelligence." So Krsna is... Ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. As you want, Krsna gives you facility. Go on.

Karandhara: "Now the next question will automatically be made as to why the Lord influences the living entity to such consciousness and forgetfulness. The answer is that the Lord clearly wishes that every living entity be engaged in his pure consciousness as the part and parcel of the Lord, and thus be engaged in loving service of the Lord as he is constitutionally made. But because the living entity is partially independent also, he may not be willing to serve the Lord, but may try to become independent as the Lord is. The whole nondevotee class of living entities are all desirous of becoming equally as powerful as the Lord, although they are not fit to become so. The living entities are..."

Prabhupada: They will never be God, but we see so many persons. By the influence of the illusory energy they think, "I am God. I am God. I shall become God by pressing my nose like this, doing this." So this is going on. They will never be able. That is not possible. Otherwise, there is no meaning of God. If everyone can become God, then there is no meaning of God. But by influence of... Just like karmis are saying "I shall become millionaire. I shall become trillionaire. I shall become head of the state. I shall become prime minister." This struggle, this is another struggle: "I shall become God." This is another struggle. But it is illusion. It is illusion. So Krsna gives them opportunity, some yogic success. Just like in India there is a rascal. He makes like that, and there is immediately some gold. And people become after him: "Oh, he is God. He is God." By producing a little gold, he becomes God. Another yogi, he gives immediately two rasagulla. So by producing two rasagulla, four annas' worth, he becomes God. You see? This is illusion. These rascals, they do not know that, "What is this rasagulla, two rasagulla? I can purchase from the market for four annas. So he is becoming God by four annas?" But they have no sense. "Oh, he is God. He can produce rasagulla." Rasagulla I can produce in our kitchen. But they are so rascal. "Oh, wonderful." So the yogic siddhis... So Krsna gives him some power of yogic siddhi and he thinks that "I have become God," and some flatterers, they also think, "Oh, you are God." The same dream. And as soon as death comes, everything finished, your Godhood and everything finished. Now becomes doghood, come to the stage of doghood. Again, another dream: "I am dog." First of all "I am God," then next stage, "I am dog." This is going on. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Thakura said, keno mayar bose jaccho bhese': "Why you are being washed away by the waves of maya? Just fix up. Stand up." Jiv krsna-das ei viswas korle to ar duhkho nai. You simply remain fixed up on this standpoint, that, "I am eternal servant of Krsna." Then there is no more dream. And if you allow yourself to be washed away, Krsna gives you facility, "All right, come on. Be washed away." Then?

Karandhara: "The living entities are illusioned by the will of the Lord because they wanted to become like Him."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Karandhara: "As a person thinks of becoming a king without possessing the necessary qualifications, similarly, when the living entity desires to become the Lord Himself, he is put in a condition of dreaming that he is a king. Therefore the first sinful will of the living entity is to become the Lord, and the consequent will of the Lord is that the living entity forgets his actual life and thus dreams of the land of utopia where he may become one like the Lord. The child cries to have the moon from the mother and the mother gives the child a mirror to satisfy the crying and disturbing child with the shadow of the moon. Similarly the crying child of the Lord is given over to the shadow of the material world to lord it over as a karmi and to give this up in frustration to become one with the Lord. Both these stages are dreaming illusions only. There is no necessity of tracing out the history when the living entity desired this, but the fact is that as soon as he desired such, he was put under the control of atma-maya by the direction of the Lord. Therefore the living entity in his material condition is dreaming falsely that this is 'mine' and this is 'I.' The dream is that the conditioned soul thinks of his material body as 'I' or falsely thinks that he is the lord and that everything in connection with the material body is 'mine.' Thus in dream only the misconception of 'I and mine' persist life after life. This continues life after life as long as the living entity is not purely conscious of his identity as the subordinate part and parcel of the Lord. In his pure consciousness, however, there is no such misconceived dream. And in that pure conscious state the living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental love."

Prabhupada: That's all.

Devotees: All glories to you Srila Prabhupada. (offer obeisances)

Trivikrama: Srila Prabhupada? You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I read...

Prabhupada: The same example. In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am thinking, "Oh, tiger is there." It is simply dreaming condition.

Trivikrama: But so many Vaisnavas are praying...

Prabhupada: So as soon as you understand that "This is not... I am not in contact with tiger. It is all a dream," then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand, "All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna," then you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious. If you keep in Krsna consciousness, that "I am eternal servant of Krsna," then you are liberated. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaa kalpate [Bg. 14.26], Krsna says. Immediately brahma-bhutah. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. He has no more lamentation, no more hankering. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. He can see everyone on equal vision. Because he knows, "Here is also another living entity." He is not a Chinaman. He is a part and parcel of God. He is not a Christian. He is not a Hindu. He is simply thinking like that. So give him Krsna consciousness. That is real benefit, to bring him to the original position. Yes?

Cintamani: If, when we realize Krsna, then we have no more desire, then how can we desire...

Prabhupada: You create desire. If you simply keep this contact with Krsna, then there is no more any other desire than to serve Krsna. That's all.

Trivikrama: This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...

Prabhupada: That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Krsna's service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of maya. You see?

Devotee: Even at that state, still the body is affected by the modes of nature. We are experiencing desires.

Prabhupada: You are not experiencing. Your body is experiencing. You are feeling cold due to this body. You are not feeling cold. You are not feeling cold.

Devotee: But I think I am feeling cold.

Prabhupada: You are thinking. That is illusion. That is illusion.

Devotee: So rise above that.

Prabhupada: Yes. But not artificially, but this is the fact. You have to gradually rise to that platform. The fact is this. Just like when you are feverish, actually you are healthy, but it has come. So in the feverish condition you are thinking, "I am now feverish." But this feverish will not, condition, will not stay. You will come to the healthy stage. Therefore don't be disturbed with the feverish condition. Go on with your duty. Don't misidentify, "Now I have become feverish. Everything is finished." No. That is external. It has come; it will go. That is given in the Bhagavad-gita. Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14]. Just like seasonal changes. Sometimes it is very hot, sometimes very cold, sometimes warm. So these are coming and going. So if there is some feeling of pain and pleasure, simply just tolerate it, but don't be absorbed in that thought. That's all. Therefore titiksava. The first symptoms of a saintly person is titiksava, tolerant. Tolerant. So go on reading, go on understanding. Everything will be clear. So next? There is kirtana, or finished? (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.1 -- Tokyo, April 20, 1972

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