These Boys Were Jagai & Madhai

20 Apr 75 , Vrndavana

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Prabhupada: Thank you. (chuckles) Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is addressed by Rupa Gosvami as maha-vadanyaya.

namo maha-vadanyaya
krsna-prema-pradaya te
krsnaya krsna-caitanya-
namine gaura-tvise namah
 [Cc. Madhya 19.53]

So Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself. Krsnaya krsna-caitanya-namine. He has assumed the name of Krsna Caitanya. Actually He is Krsna. That is confirmed in many literature. Especially in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said,

krsna-varnam tvisa akrsnam
sangopangastra-parsadam
yajnaih sankirtanaih prayair
yajanti hi su-medhasah
 [SB 11.5.32]

So Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, after taking His sannyasa order, His name was Krsna Caitanya. So Rupa Gosvami said that "You are Krsna. You have now come as Krsna Caitanya." Why? Krsna-prema-pradaya te: [Cc. Madhya 19.53] "Just to distribute love of Krsna." And Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission was prema pum-artho mahan. Generally people understand dharma artha kama moksa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Adi 1.90], but Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that above moksa, above liberation, there is love of God. That is wanted. Prema pum-artho mahan. And this is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsaranam satam, vastavya-vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. And Sridhara Swami says that kaitava-dharma... In simple word, cheating. Kaitava means cheating, or false. So when there are false dealings, that is cheating. So according to Vyasadeva, dharma artha kama moksa, that is not very essential thing. Real thing is how to advance in the science of loving God, Krsna, Krsna-prema. And the Srimad-Bhagavatam says,

sa vai pumsam paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhoksaje
ahaituky apratihata
yena atma samprasidati
 [SB 1.2.6]

If you want really peace, then you should stand on the platform of paro dharma. Paro dharma. Just like Krsna has described, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim parah. Para and para. Para is applicable to the purusa, and para is applicable to the prakrti. So we are prakrti, we are not purusa. Purusa is Krsna, as described by Arjuna in the Bhagavad-gita, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan, purusam sasvatam adyam [Bg. 10.12]. And in the Brahma-samhita also it is: adi-purusam. Krsna is described, adi-purusam. Isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah, anadih adih govindam tam aham bhajami. [Bs. 5.1]

So this Krsna-bhakti, Krsna personally came to teach Krsna-bhakti. He came here in this district Mathura. And the Krsna birthplace is still there. So Krsna personally came to teach the science of Krsna-bhakti. And although He proposed that dharma-samsthapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge, but at the end He says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And this is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that dharma-projjhita kaitavo atra. Except surrendering to the lotus feet of Krsna, anything which is going on in the name of dharma, that is not dharma. Therefore Krsna says sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. When Krsna came, He did not come to reestablish Hindu religion or Christian religion or Muslim religion. No. Religion is religion. Gold is gold. You cannot say "Hindu gold," "Muslim gold," "Christian gold." That is not possible. That is not possible. That is called kaitava-dharma, cheating dharma. Gold is gold, pure gold. Therefore Bhagavata says, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam: [SB 6.3.19] "Dharma means the order or the law given by God." That is dharma. This is the simple explanation of dharma. If you want to know what do we mean by dharma, then dharma means dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like law. Law means which is given, sanctioned by the governor. You cannot make your law at home. You cannot say, "The law given by the government or by the governor, I don't care for it. I shall make my own law." That is not possible. That will never be accepted as law. You can make your law. Similarly, if you manufacture dharma without any reference to the authority, that is not dharma. That is cheating religion. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavah.

So therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, what He is speaking, mam ekam saranam vraja, that is dharma. All other things are cheating. And when Krsna says, mam ekam saranam vraja, He does not say it to any particular community or any country or any nation. He speaks to everyone.

sarva-yonisu kaunteya
sambhavanti murtayo yah
tasam mahad yonir brahma
aham bija-pradah pita
 [Bg. 14.4]

He says, "I am the seed-giving father of all forms of life." Krsna does not say that "I am speaking to Indian or the Hindus." No. Krsna is speaking to everyone, to His every son. It doesn't matter whether he is white or black or blue or... It doesn't matter. These are skin disease. Krsna says that we don't take this body as yourself. Asmin dehe. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam... [Bg. 2.13]. This transformation of the body, that is natural. But within the body, the part and parcel of Krsna is there. That you have to understand, that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gita. We have to understand what is there within the body. That is the beginning of spiritual education. Unfortunately, the whole world is going on under the impression that "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am European..." That is condemned in the sastra.

yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke
sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih
yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij
janesu abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah
 [SB 10.84.13]

Go, go means cow, and kharah means ass. So yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. This bag of three dhatus-kapha, pitta, vayu -- if one takes it that "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am American," so sastra says, "He is not even human being." Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. So this Krsna consciousness movement is very, very important from this angle of vision, that everyone is thinking this body as he is. Nobody understands that he is within this body. Just like we are within this dress. I am not this dress. This is the primary education of spiritual life. Unfortunately, it is very much lacking. And now you can see practically that these European and American boys, they are all young men, but they have forgotten the bodily relationship. We have got in our institution Africans, Canadians, Australians, Europeans, Indians, but they do not consider with reference to this bodily concept of life. They live as eternal servant of Krsna. That is the instruction given by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, jivera svarupa haya nitya krsna dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109].

So actually, if we want to be happy, then we have to accept the principle of Srimad-Bhagavatam, yato bhaktir adhoksaje. Bhakti comes out of love. You cannot make one forced to love you. It comes automatically. That automatic love is there in everyone's heart for Krsna. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta:

nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya
sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

Udaya means it is awakened. Everyone has got love for Krsna within the heart. That is natural. But that love is distributed in different ways. How? Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma idya-dhih [SB 10.84.13]. This love has been distributed familywise, communitywise, nationwise, countrywise, like that. So this love has to be concentrated, converted to be love of Krsna. That is required. Then everything is perfect. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teaching, and He practically... Krsna-prema-prdaya. To develop love for somebody, that requires very elaborate process. It is not... Because we are in the darkness. Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita,

manusyanam sahasresu
kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam
kascid vetti mam tattvatah
 [Bg. 7.3]

So we cannot understand even Krsna, what is Krsna. Actually, there are so many malinterpretation about Krsna. I do not wish to discuss because they have been made mistaken by big, big leaders. So people cannot understand even Krsna, what is Krsna, and what to speak of loving Krsna. That is very difficult job. But Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He distributed this love of Krsna. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Lord Nityananda is standing before you, and He delivered many, many sinful persons to the transcendental position of love of Krsna. Srila Narottama dasa Thakura has sung, vrajendra-nandana yei, saci-suta hoilo sei, balarama hoilo nitai. This Balarama, He became Nitai, and Krsna, He became Caitanya Mahaprabhu. These two brothers, the same two brothers, Rama-Laksman, Krsna-Balarama, again as Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu. So what was Their business? The papi-tapi jata chilo, hari-name uddharilo. This is Their business. All the papis and all the persons suffering from material anxieties, They delivered, "Yes." How? Tara saksi jagai madhai. There were two brothers, Jagai and Madhai. They are very debauchees. That debauchees means what was their fault? The fault was that they took their birth in brahmana family, but they became woman-hunter and drunkards and cheaters, like that. So Nityanand a Prabhu delivered them to become first-class Vaisnava. Papi-tapi jata chilo, hari-name uddharilo, tara saksi jagai and madhai. So five hundred years ago, to become a drunkard was most abominable, especially in the higher section of the Hindu society. But now it has become a fashion. So if you want to develop the position of the society, position of the country, which is now full with papi-tapi, you have to accept the process of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and that is practically being manifested. These European, American boys, they are also the same type, Jagai and Madhai. That is a fact. They were at least. Now they are not. So how they have become delivered? The same process. Papi-tapi jata chilo, hari-name uddharilo.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is so important, and there is practical result, that you introduce this chanting of Hare Krsna maha-mantra offenselessly, not with offense, then the world situation will improve very much. That's a fact. And it is being actually enacted in the present position. We are sending our men from village to village in Europe and America. We have introduced. We are taking advantage of the modern facilities. We are using this microphone for chanting Hare Krsna mantra, we are using nice buses, cars and wagons to go to village to village and distribute book and chant Hare Krsna. One of the leaders is present here, Sriman Tamala Krsna Gosvami. He is going. He is controlling about one dozen buses. And here is Hamsaduta also. He is doing the same in Germany. So we have introduced this as Caitanya Mahaprabhu ordered, prthivite ache yata nagaradi-grama. Throughout the whole world, as many villages and towns are there, this sankirtana movement should be introduced. And especially in India, because if in India the people are generally Krsna conscious. By artificial means they are trying to forget. This is the position. This should be stopped. They have got natural tendency for becoming Krsna conscious. Therefore in these days, still so many hundreds and thousands of people coming to Vrndavana to relish the transcendental mellow of Krsna consciousness. And now the foreigners are also attracted to Krsna consciousness. And I am trying to place them in our temple. This temple is one of them. We have got four, five temples in India. We are constructing one big temple in Hyderabad, and we are getting good response. So it is our request to the leaders of the society and to the people of India that they may take this Krsna conscious movement, Hare Krsna movement, very seriously. It will be good for everyone and the whole world will become peaceful. We do not expect that throughout the whole world everyone will take to Krsna consciousness. But even five percent, two percent, three percent people takes to Krsna consciousness, there will be great example. Yad yad acarati sresthah lokas tad anuvartate [Bg. 3.21].

So our only request is that this simple thing,

harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam
kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha
 [Cc. Adi 17.21]

this formula of the Vedic sastra. And you will be surprised. I invite you to come to our different centers in Europe and America, how they are chanting, dancing before the Deity, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Nityananda or Radha-Krsna. Recently I had been to Atlanta for the first time. But the boys and the girls there, they have taken three big, big houses. The middle house has been transformed into temple. How nicely they are chanting and dancing. You will be surprised if you go. So this movement is undoubtedly increasing in the foreign countries, and why not in our country? So the government, the leaders and the guardians, they should deeply contemplate on the serious nature of this movement and help us. Now we are bringing men from the foreign countries to preach. How long I shall bring? If we want to spread this movement all over India very seriously, then we invite educated, intellectual young men to come forward to study this movement. It is not blind; we have got books. We have already published about fifty books on this movement. So for the Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement is meant for both kind of men. The ordinary men without any education, illiterate, he can also take to it, and the most advanced scientists, philosopher, philanthropist, politician, they also can take to it. So we are helping both ways. Those who are educated scientist, philosopher, for them we have got volumes of books. And those who are not educated, they can simply chant Hare Krsna. That will help them, both ways. Therefore this movement has become important and interesting. Our books are being purchased by the topmost class of man. Big, big professors in the universities, they are giving standing order. The books which are not published, they are putting standing order. Here our one sannyasi is present, Satsvarupa. He is visiting the libraries, universities, professors, and we are getting very good response. So don't take it as a sectarian movement. Don't misunderstand this movement as a CIA movement. These are all foolishness. Do you think that the Americans are so fools that for propagating their CIA movement they will become Vaisnava and chant and dance? The Americans have become so fools? No. They have taken it very seriously. They are not CIA, not American nor European. They are Vaisnavas; they are servant of Krsna. Don't misunderstand them. And try to cooperate and help this movement for the benefit of the whole human society.

Thank you very much. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Speech -- Vrndavana, April 20, 1975

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

How have we fallen in this material world?

How have we fallen in this material world?

Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.1
Tokyo, April 20, 1972

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Pradyumna: (chanting verse) Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Devotees: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: It is sandhi? Na ghateta artha. It has been lost? Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Again, recite the whole sloka.

Pradyumna: (devotees repeating)

sri suka uvaca
atma-mayam rte rajan
parasyanubhavatmanah
na ghatetartha-sambandhah
svapna-drastur ivanjasa
 [SB 2.9.1]

Svapna. Drastur. Svapna-drastur. Iva. Anjasa. Ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa.

Pradyumna: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Now read again.

Pradyumna: Whole thing?

Prabhupada: No, this same verse. Practice it. In this way you practice one mantra daily. Each mantra will purify you hundred yards daily. Go forward. These mantras are very powerful, given by Vyasadeva Gosvami, vibrated. And spoken by... Suka-mukhad drava-samyutamrtam. That is explained in the beginning. Just like a ripened fruit in the tree is already very sweet, and if it is touched by the beak of the parrot, it becomes sweeter. These are natural course. If the parrot touches the fruit, he cuts little by his beak, beak. Beak, you call beak? Then it becomes still sweeter. Suka-mukhad drava-samyutam. Similarly, Srimad-Bhagavatam is already sublime, transcendental. And when it is spoken through the mouth of Sukadeva Gosvami, it becomes still sweet, just like the fruit. The parrot is also called suka. It is called suka-paksi, suka bird. So this comparison is given. As the fruit becomes still sweeter by the touch of the beak of the parrot, similarly, Sukadeva Gosvami, because it is already spoken by Vyasadeva, ripened fruit, the experienced contribution of Vyasadeva, all the Vedic literatures, but when it is spoken through the parampara system of Sukadeva Gosvami, it becomes still sweeter.

Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended to study Srimad-Bhagavatam from bhagavatam. Bhagavata para giya bhagavata sthane. Bhagavata means the grantha-bhagavata, book bhagavata... Bhagavata means about Krsna. Bhagavan is Krsna. And anything in relationship with Krsna is called Bhagavata. So the devotee is also in relationship with Krsna. He is also called bhagavata. Maha-bhagavata. Those who are highly advanced, or first-class devotees, they are called maha-bhagavata. So this Bhagavatam, it is the essence of the Vedic knowledge and when it is received through the parampara system of pure devotee, then it becomes still more sweet than before. That is the purport.

So we should try to learn, get it by heart, at least one sloka, two slokas in a week. And if we chant that... Just like you are chanting so many songs, similarly, if we chant one or two verses of Srimad-Bhagavatam, that will make you very quickly advanced for spiritual realization. We are therefore taking so much trouble to get this transliteration, the meaning, so that the reader may take advanced step, full advantage of the mantra. It is not that to show some scholarship, that "I know so much Sanskrit." No. It is just offered with humility to learn the mantra because one who will chant the mantra... They are all transcendental vibration. Just Hare Krsna mantra... This is maha-mantra, but they are also mantras, all the verses from Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, spoken by Krsna, spoken by... Bhagavata also, spoken by Krsna. Vyasadeva is incarnation of Krsna. They're also mantras, infallible instructions. So try to get it by heart, chanting. Either you chant by seeing the book or get it by heart, it is all the same. But try to chant one, two slokas daily. Chant.

Pradyumna: (chants with devotees responding)

sri suka uvaca
atma-mayam rte rajan
parasyanubhavatmanah
na ghatetartha-sambandhah...
 [SB 2.9.1]

Prabhupada: (correcting) Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Like that. It is written like that?

Pradyumna: Ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: artha, artha separated?

Pradyumna: No. Together. Ghatetartha.

Prabhupada: No. Ghatetartha-sambandhah. It should, should not be. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Like that. Ta should be long. Ta. Ghateta artha-sambandhah. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Is that all right?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupada: So pronounce like that.

Pradyumna: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: Loud. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Pradyumna: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: Yes. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Devotees: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Pradyumna: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Oh. Again pronounce.

Pradyumna: Sri suka uvaca (repeats verse)

Prabhupada: Very important verse. Now we shall go to the words and meaning. Again recite. Sri suka uvaca.

Devotees: (repeat verse)

Prabhupada: Once again. Do it again.

Pradyumna: (repeats verse)

Prabhupada: Again. (devotees repeat verse again) Anyone can recite? All right. See the book and recite.

Syamasundara: Sri-suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah.

Prabhupada: Parasya. The transliteration is the long a. You have seen? You just try to follow the transliteration. That will be easier.

Syamasundara: Parasyanu...

Prabhupada: Parasyanubhava, bhavatmanah. Atma.

Syamasundara: Yes. Long a over a. Atmanah.

Prabhupada: Yes. Now, beginning.

Syamasundara: Parasyanu...

Prabhupada: No. First line. (devotees repeating)

Syamasundara: Sri suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah.

Prabhupada: Read it again.

Syamasundara: Sri suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah na ghatetartha...

Prabhupada: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. Next. Next. You read. Go on. One after another. (continues devotee reciting, Prabhupada correcting) You read the transliteration. The thing is hearing the meter and repeat. That's all. The writing is already there, transliteration. Simply you have to hear the written. Just like you have chanted so many verses, songs, by hearing. The hearing is very important. A child learns another language simply by hearing, pronunciation, hearing. That is natural. If we hear one thing repeatedly, you will learn. You will learn. So one has to hear little attentively. Then it will be easy. There is no difficulty. Just like you are singing our song in tune, (sings) samsara-davanala-lidha-loka **. This is by hearing. So simply you have to hear. Therefore whole Vedic sastra is called sruti. It is a process of hearing. (coughing) This is a disease of old age. These are the warnings that the body is getting rotten. Go on. (recitation continues) Next. Each one of you. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah svapna-drastur ivanjasa. What is the anjasa spelling?

Devotee: I-v-a-n-j-a-s-a. Ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Long a or short a?

Devotee: Long a.

Prabhupada: Yes. Ivanjasa. Anjasa. Anjasa means wholesale. Go on. (recitation and corrections continue) Na ghateta artha sambandhah, combined together it becomes na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Tartha. What is the spelling? Tartha?

Devotee: T, long a, r-t-h-a.

Prabhupada: Of tha? What is the...?

Devotee: T-a-r-t-h-a. Na ghata...

Prabhupada: T-h-a. There must be r.

Pradyumna: Yes. Ghatetartha. G-h-a-t-e-t-a-r...

Prabhupada: T-a-r. Yes. T-a, artha. So you were missing that r. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. All right. Next. (recitation continues) Get it next. Come here. So you have to study like that. So many slokas, I am taking so much labor. If you do not read it carefully... It is not for that I am making business, for selling only, and not for my students. You must all read like this, practice. Why so much trouble is being taken, word to word meaning and then transliteration? If you chant this mantra, that vibration will cleanse the atmosphere. And wherever you go, in any part of the world, if you can chant this mantra, oh, you'll be received like God. It is so nice. And in India he'll actually receive like Gods if you chant this mantra. They will so offer their respects, so many. Veda-mantra. Next chant. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. Next, next. Bhanu prabhu (Bhanu recites) Thank you very much. He has pronounced very nicely. So he will teach you. Yes. Next. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. Yes. In this way, each one of you, you chant and others will follow. Then one or two days, you get the sloka by heart. You can chant. It is not difficult. Now read the word meanings and translation.

Karandhara: "Sri-sukah uvaca -- Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said; atma --  the Supreme Personality of Godhead; mayam -- the energy; rte --  without; rajan -- O King..."

Prabhupada: Rajan.

Karandhara: Rajan -- O King.

Prabhupada: It is address, addressing. Nominative is raja and addressive is rajan. Go on.

Karandhara: Parasyasya...

Prabhupada: Parasya.

Karandhara: Parasya.

Prabhupada: Parasya. Yes.

Karandhara: "Parasya -- of the pure soul; anubhava-atmanah --  of the purely conscious; na -- never; ghateta -- it can so happen; artha -- meaning; sambandhah -- relation with the material body; svapna -- dream; drastuh -- of the seer; iva -- like it; anjasa -- completely."

Prabhupada: Anjasa.

Karandhara: "Anjasa -- completely. Translation: Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O King, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no meaning to the relationship of the pure soul in pure consciousness with the material body. It is just like the dreamer seeing his own body working."

Prabhupada: So, purport?

Karandhara: "Purport. The question of Maharaja Pariksit is perfectly answered as to how a living entity began his material life, although he is apart from the material body and the mind."

Prabhupada: It is a very important question. Pariksit Maharaja inquired... Many people inquired that "How the living entity was with Krsna, he became fallen in this material world?" Is not done? This question is raised? So this question is answered here, that "How the living entity who was with Krsna became fallen down in contact with this material qualities?" So this is the answer. Read the translation.

Karandhara: "Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O king, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead..."

Prabhupada: It is simply the influence of the material energy, nothing. Actually he has not fallen. Another example given is given. Just like the moon is covered with scattered cloud, the passing cloud. You have seen. Everyone has experience. The cloud passes, and it appears that the moon is moving. Have you seen this?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupada: Actually the moon is not moving. It is a maya, illusion. It appears that the moon is moving. But similarly, the living entity, because he is spiritual spark of the Supreme, it has not fallen. It has not fallen. But he is thinking, "I am fallen. I am material." That is the reason. He is thinking, "I am this body." Actually the body has no connection with me. That is experienced, that the body has no connection with the soul. The body is changing, dying. But I am the same. The same example, the moon: The cloud is passing over in different way. The moon is far away from the cloud, and it has nothing to do with the cloud, but it appears the moon is moving. [break] Try to understand. Have questions and answer. It is very important thing. Atma-mayam rte rajan. Except atma-maya, the illusory energy... It is the maneuver or handling of the illusory energy of Krsna. This illusory energy develops when we forget Krsna. That's all. It is... In other words, this illusory identification of me with the body is simply due to my forgetfulness. We wanted to forget, we wanted to give up Krsna and wanted to enjoy this material world. Therefore Krsna is giving us...

Just like when you play some part in a drama, if you feel that "I am king," then you can talk very nicely. And if you feel that "I am Karandhara," then you cannot play nicely king. Is it not? Feeling must be there. If you are playing the part of a king, then you must have the same courage and belief that "I am king." You have to forget that you are Karandhara. Then your part will be very nicely played. It will be appreciated. But if you think simultaneously that "I am Karandhara. I am taking, playing the part of the king," then you cannot play. So because we wanted to play the part of Krsna, enjoyer, Krsna is giving us chance that "You feel like Me." -- "I am king. I am Krsna. I am God." (laughter) All these rascals, those who are feeling like that, "I am master. I am king. I am Krsna. I am God," they are all simply in that feeling only. That's all. And this feeling is created by Krsna: "All right. You want to play the part of a king. I shall train you in such a way." Just like director means, dramatic director means, he creates a feeling. His direction is nothing but how to feel.

Sometimes we played in our younger age Caitanya-lila. I introduced. And one big director, Amrtalal Chosa, he was just like grandfather. He was one of the, just like in England Shakespeare and others, big, big dramatic, well-known persons. This Amrtalal Chosa and Girish Chandra Chosa, they introduced in India theatric... So we called him to give us direction. He was giving us direction, and repeatedly he was telling that "You feel like that," especially to me. "You feel like that." So actually, when we played according to his direction, the audience were all crying. And we could not understand how they cried. We could not understand. On the stage when we played, it was so perfect that all audience were crying. Actually we saw they were smearing over their eyes with... But the whole thing is artificial, but the effect to the audience became so nice. So similarly, we are... Actually we have nothing to do with this material world, But we have been trained by the illusory energy in such a way that we are thinking, "I am Indian. I am American. I am this. I am that. I am brahmana. I am sudra. I have to do this. I have got so much duty," all these illusions, simply thinking. We have nothing to do with all this nonsense, but still, we are taking it very serious. "I have to do like that. I have to do like that. I am this. I am that." That's all. That is explained. Atma-mayam rte rajan: "Except the influence of that atma-maya, the illusory energy of Krsna..." Atma-maya. Read. Atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanu. Read it?

Karandhara: Parasyanubhavatmanah.

Prabhupada: Parasyanubhavatmanah. Na ghateta artha-sambandha. There cannot be any relation at all. Na ghateta. Cannot be. Artha sambandhah. Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. The very exact example is given, svapna-drastuh. Just like a man seeing dream: "Oh, there is tiger, tiger, tiger, tiger! Save me!" He is crying. Another man is, "Where is tiger? Why you are crying? Where is tiger?" But he, in the dream, he is actually feeling: "The tiger has attacked me." Therefore this example is given, na ghatetartha-sambandhah. There cannot be any meaning of this relationship except like a man dreaming and he is creating a situation. He is dreaming there is a tiger and he is creating a situation, fearful situation. Actually there is no cause of fear. There is no tiger. That situation is created by dream. Actually there is no tiger. Similarly we have created this material world and activity. People are running, "Oh..., sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh," identifying that "Oh, I am the manager. I am the factory owner. I am this, I am that. We have got his politics. We have to defeat such competitors." All these things are created exactly like that, svapna-drastur ivanjasa, just like a man is creating his particular situation simply by dream. That's all.

So the answer is, when somebody asks you that "When one has become in contact with this material nature?" He has not become in contact. He is thinking by the influence of the external energy. Just like the same example: A man is dreaming; there is no contact with tiger. Actually he has no contact with that. Similarly, actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are, become... Try to understand understand. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Krsna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krsna, so Krsna has given an opportunity: "All right. Imitate. You want to be imitation king in the stage. So feel like this. Play like this. Do like this. People will applaud. 'Oh, a very nice king, very nice.' " That is the... So everyone in this material world, they are playing some part. They wanted, "I want to be prime minister." "All right." "I want to become very big business magnate." "I want to be leader." "I want to be a philosopher." "I want to be a scientist." So all this nonsense, they are trying to play -- Krsna is giving him the opportunity: "All right." But it is a nonsense, all nonsense. Simple dreaming. Just like you are dreaming. Next moment when the dream is gone, everything is finished. No more tiger, no more jungle, no more... Everything is finished. Similarly, so long this body is continuing, I am thinking, "I am a responsible leader, I am this, I am that." But as soon as this body is finished, oh, these are (indistinct) gone.

Sarva-haras caham. The death means... Krsna says, "I am death. I take it away, all, everything. Gone." Now just think of our past life. Suppose I was a king or something like that. From Bhrgu-samhita it was ascertained. They said -- I do not know -- that I was a big physician in my last life, very spotless character, no sins, like that. He explained me. So it may be. But actually I have no remembrance that I was a physician. So what do we know? I might have been a very big physician, influential physician, having a good practice, but where is all...? All gone. So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krsna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krsna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all," immediately he becomes liberated. Exactly like that: as soon as you... Sometimes we do that. When the fearful dreaming becomes too much intolerable, we break the dream. We break the dream when it becomes intolerable. Similarly, we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the point of Krsna conscious. "Oh, Krsna is my eternal master. I am His servant." That's all. This is the way. Actually we are not fallen. There cannot be any fallen. The same example: Actually there is no tiger; it is dreaming. Similarly, our fallen condition is also dreaming. We are not fallen. We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At any moment. So if you study all these verses very nicely, you get all this knowledge quickly. Now what is the purport? Come on.

Karandhara: "The spirit soul is distinct from the material conception of his life."

Prabhupada: Yes. Distinct. Always distinct. Next?

Karandhara: "But he is absorbed in such a material conception because of being influenced by the external energy of the Lord, called atma-maya. This is already explained in the First Canto in connection with Vyasadeva's realization of the Supreme Lord and His external energy. The external energy is controlled by the Lord and the living entities are controlled by the external energy."

Prabhupada: Krsna says, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te: [Bg. 7.14] "As soon as one surrenders unto Me, he has no more illusion." Mayam etam taranti. Immediately. So people are conditioned, encaged. So many big, big words The Mayavadis, they are undergoing austerities or penances just to become liberated. Yogis, they are also trying to become one. So many endeavors are going on. But the simple process is, as soon as you surrender, that you are not fallen, "It was illusion. I was dreaming. I am Krsna's," finished. All gone. "I am Krsna's. I am Krsna's eternal servant. These are all nonsense" -- he immediately becomes liberated. Just try to understand. Immediately, within a second. Liberation can be attained within a second, provided we abide by the order of Krsna. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen. So we have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated. There is no Is there any difficulty to understand? Just see how important this verse. It is already there, but you are not reading. Each verse, read every day carefully. Try to assimilate, understand, and you will get more profit, every day, hundred yards forward, hundred yards forward, yes. They are so important verses. How nicely composed by Vyasadeva. In two lines the whole thing is explained. This is called sastra. In two lines. Then read the purport.

Karandhara: "The external energy is controlled by the Lord and the living entities are controlled by the external energy by the will of the Lord. Therefore, although the living entity is purely conscious in his pure state, he is subordinate to the will of the Lord, being influenced by the external energy of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gita also the same thing is confirmed, that the Lord is present within the heart of every living entity and all consciousness and forgetfulness of the living entity are influenced by the Lord."

Prabhupada: Yes. Because... Now, people may say that, "Why Krsna within the heart gives one type of consciousness to one, and another type of consciousness...?" Because I wanted. I wanted to forget Krsna, so Krsna is giving consciousness: "All right, you can forget Me in this way." That is His kindness. Just like the Mayavadis, the so-called yogis and karmis, they wanted to forget. Krsna is giving him intelligence. "All right. You forget Me like this." That's all. Go on. And if you want to again revive your relationship, Krsna will give you intelligence. Buddhi-yogam dadami tam yena mam upayanti te: "I shall give intelligence." So Krsna is... Ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. As you want, Krsna gives you facility. Go on.

Karandhara: "Now the next question will automatically be made as to why the Lord influences the living entity to such consciousness and forgetfulness. The answer is that the Lord clearly wishes that every living entity be engaged in his pure consciousness as the part and parcel of the Lord, and thus be engaged in loving service of the Lord as he is constitutionally made. But because the living entity is partially independent also, he may not be willing to serve the Lord, but may try to become independent as the Lord is. The whole nondevotee class of living entities are all desirous of becoming equally as powerful as the Lord, although they are not fit to become so. The living entities are..."

Prabhupada: They will never be God, but we see so many persons. By the influence of the illusory energy they think, "I am God. I am God. I shall become God by pressing my nose like this, doing this." So this is going on. They will never be able. That is not possible. Otherwise, there is no meaning of God. If everyone can become God, then there is no meaning of God. But by influence of... Just like karmis are saying "I shall become millionaire. I shall become trillionaire. I shall become head of the state. I shall become prime minister." This struggle, this is another struggle: "I shall become God." This is another struggle. But it is illusion. It is illusion. So Krsna gives them opportunity, some yogic success. Just like in India there is a rascal. He makes like that, and there is immediately some gold. And people become after him: "Oh, he is God. He is God." By producing a little gold, he becomes God. Another yogi, he gives immediately two rasagulla. So by producing two rasagulla, four annas' worth, he becomes God. You see? This is illusion. These rascals, they do not know that, "What is this rasagulla, two rasagulla? I can purchase from the market for four annas. So he is becoming God by four annas?" But they have no sense. "Oh, he is God. He can produce rasagulla." Rasagulla I can produce in our kitchen. But they are so rascal. "Oh, wonderful." So the yogic siddhis... So Krsna gives him some power of yogic siddhi and he thinks that "I have become God," and some flatterers, they also think, "Oh, you are God." The same dream. And as soon as death comes, everything finished, your Godhood and everything finished. Now becomes doghood, come to the stage of doghood. Again, another dream: "I am dog." First of all "I am God," then next stage, "I am dog." This is going on. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Thakura said, keno mayar bose jaccho bhese': "Why you are being washed away by the waves of maya? Just fix up. Stand up." Jiv krsna-das ei viswas korle to ar duhkho nai. You simply remain fixed up on this standpoint, that, "I am eternal servant of Krsna." Then there is no more dream. And if you allow yourself to be washed away, Krsna gives you facility, "All right, come on. Be washed away." Then?

Karandhara: "The living entities are illusioned by the will of the Lord because they wanted to become like Him."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Karandhara: "As a person thinks of becoming a king without possessing the necessary qualifications, similarly, when the living entity desires to become the Lord Himself, he is put in a condition of dreaming that he is a king. Therefore the first sinful will of the living entity is to become the Lord, and the consequent will of the Lord is that the living entity forgets his actual life and thus dreams of the land of utopia where he may become one like the Lord. The child cries to have the moon from the mother and the mother gives the child a mirror to satisfy the crying and disturbing child with the shadow of the moon. Similarly the crying child of the Lord is given over to the shadow of the material world to lord it over as a karmi and to give this up in frustration to become one with the Lord. Both these stages are dreaming illusions only. There is no necessity of tracing out the history when the living entity desired this, but the fact is that as soon as he desired such, he was put under the control of atma-maya by the direction of the Lord. Therefore the living entity in his material condition is dreaming falsely that this is 'mine' and this is 'I.' The dream is that the conditioned soul thinks of his material body as 'I' or falsely thinks that he is the lord and that everything in connection with the material body is 'mine.' Thus in dream only the misconception of 'I and mine' persist life after life. This continues life after life as long as the living entity is not purely conscious of his identity as the subordinate part and parcel of the Lord. In his pure consciousness, however, there is no such misconceived dream. And in that pure conscious state the living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental love."

Prabhupada: That's all.

Devotees: All glories to you Srila Prabhupada. (offer obeisances)

Trivikrama: Srila Prabhupada? You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I read...

Prabhupada: The same example. In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am thinking, "Oh, tiger is there." It is simply dreaming condition.

Trivikrama: But so many Vaisnavas are praying...

Prabhupada: So as soon as you understand that "This is not... I am not in contact with tiger. It is all a dream," then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand, "All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna," then you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious. If you keep in Krsna consciousness, that "I am eternal servant of Krsna," then you are liberated. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaa kalpate [Bg. 14.26], Krsna says. Immediately brahma-bhutah. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. He has no more lamentation, no more hankering. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. He can see everyone on equal vision. Because he knows, "Here is also another living entity." He is not a Chinaman. He is a part and parcel of God. He is not a Christian. He is not a Hindu. He is simply thinking like that. So give him Krsna consciousness. That is real benefit, to bring him to the original position. Yes?

Cintamani: If, when we realize Krsna, then we have no more desire, then how can we desire...

Prabhupada: You create desire. If you simply keep this contact with Krsna, then there is no more any other desire than to serve Krsna. That's all.

Trivikrama: This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...

Prabhupada: That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Krsna's service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of maya. You see?

Devotee: Even at that state, still the body is affected by the modes of nature. We are experiencing desires.

Prabhupada: You are not experiencing. Your body is experiencing. You are feeling cold due to this body. You are not feeling cold. You are not feeling cold.

Devotee: But I think I am feeling cold.

Prabhupada: You are thinking. That is illusion. That is illusion.

Devotee: So rise above that.

Prabhupada: Yes. But not artificially, but this is the fact. You have to gradually rise to that platform. The fact is this. Just like when you are feverish, actually you are healthy, but it has come. So in the feverish condition you are thinking, "I am now feverish." But this feverish will not, condition, will not stay. You will come to the healthy stage. Therefore don't be disturbed with the feverish condition. Go on with your duty. Don't misidentify, "Now I have become feverish. Everything is finished." No. That is external. It has come; it will go. That is given in the Bhagavad-gita. Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14]. Just like seasonal changes. Sometimes it is very hot, sometimes very cold, sometimes warm. So these are coming and going. So if there is some feeling of pain and pleasure, simply just tolerate it, but don't be absorbed in that thought. That's all. Therefore titiksava. The first symptoms of a saintly person is titiksava, tolerant. Tolerant. So go on reading, go on understanding. Everything will be clear. So next? There is kirtana, or finished? (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.1 -- Tokyo, April 20, 1972

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

"Krsna Is Equal To Everyone"

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.8.28
Los Angeles, April 20, 1973

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Devotee:

manye tvam kalam isanam
anadi-nidhanam vibhum
samam carantam sarvatra
bhutanam yan mithah kalih

"My Lord, I consider Your Lordship to be eternal time, the Supreme Controller, without beginning and end, the all-pervasive one. In distributing Your mercy, You are equal to everyone. The dissensions between living beings are due to social intercourse."

Prabhupada: In the Bhagavad-gita Krsna says exactly the same thing. This is explained by Kunti, a devotee. The same thing is spoken by the Lord Himself. Samo 'ham sarva-bhutesu na me dvesyo 'sti na priyah, ye tu bhajanti mam bhaktya tesu te mayi. God cannot be partial. That is not possible. Everyone is God's son. So how God can be partial to one son and, better than the other son? That is not possible. That is our mistake. We write: "We trust in God," but we make discrimination. If you trust in God, then you must be equally kind and merciful to all living entities. That is God consciousness. So Krsna says: "I have no enemies, neither I have got friends." Na me dvesyo 'sti na priyah.

Dvesya means enemy. We, we are envious of our enemy and we are friendly to our friends. So Krsna is absolute. Even He appears to be inimical to some demon, actually He's friend. When a demon is killed, that means his demonic activities are killed. He becomes a saint immediately. Otherwise how he's promoted immediately to the brahmajyoti? All these demons who were killed by Krsna, they immediately merge into the brahmajyoti-nirvisesa. The only difference is, of course, the brahmajyoti, Paramatma and Bhagavan. They are one. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam [SB 1.2.11]. That is one truth, Absolute Truth, in different features only. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate. Originally Bhagavan, His plenary representation is Paramatma who is situated in everyone's heart. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. The plenary portion Ksirodakasayi Visnu, He is in everyone's heart. That is Paramatma. And Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan. The ultimate issue is Bhagavan. So ye yatha mam prapadyante. Now He's equal to everyone. It is up to the devotees or persons who are trying to understand the Supreme Absolute Truth. According to their capacity of understanding, the Absolute Truth, God, is revealed, either as impersonal Brahman or localized Paramatma or Bhagavan. It is up to me.

The same example as I have repeated many times. Just like we see sometimes the hills from our room. Here there are many hills in Los Angeles. But they are not distinct. When you are seeing the hills from a distant place, it looks like something cloudy. But if you go still further towards the hill, you'll distinctly find that there is something, hill. And if you come to the hill, then you'll find so many persons are working there, so many houses are there. There are streets, motorcars, everything, all varieties. So similarly, when one wants to know the Absolute Truth by his teeny brain, "I shall make research to find out the Absolute Truth," then you'll have vague idea, impersonal idea. And if you become a meditator, then you will find that God is situated within your heart. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah [SB 12.13.1]. The yogis, the real yogis, they, by meditation, they see visnu-murti within the heart. And those who are devotees, they meet the Supreme Person face to face just like we are meeting face to face, talk face to face, serve directly. The Supreme Personality of Godhead orders that: "You supply me this," and he supplies. That is the difference.

So samo 'ham sarva-bhutesu. He's equal to everyone. Now it is up to you to understand Him according to your capacity. So Kunti also says the same thing in this verse: samam carantam sarvatra. Samam carantam. Carantam means moving. He is moving everywhere, outside, inside, simply we have to make our eyes clear to see Him. That is devotional service, to make our senses purified to perceive the presence of God. God is present everywhere. Antar bahih. Antah means within and bahih means without. "Those who are less intelligent, they simply try to find out God within, and those who are advanced in intelligence, they can see You within and without." That is the difference.

Meditation is meant for the less intelligent class of men. Meditation means you have to control the senses. Yoga practice means yoga indriya-samyama. Our senses are very restless. By yoga practice, by, I mean to say, practicing different asanas, so mind is controlled, the senses are controlled. Then we can concentrate upon the form of Visnu with our heart. That is yoga system. Or those who are too much in bodily concept of life, for them the yoga system is recommended, practicing the bodily exercise, and find out the Supreme Lord within the heart. But bhaktas, those who are devotees, who are still more advanced, they don't require to control their senses separately, because to be engaged in devotional service means controlling the senses.

Suppose you are engaged in worshiping the Deity, in cleansing the room, in decorating the Deity, in making foodstuff for Deity, everything nicely... So your senses are already engaged. Where is the chance of your senses being diverted? The senses are already controlled. Because my senses, hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti means simply to engage the senses in the service of the master of the senses. Hrsikesa means master of the senses, and hrsika means senses. So now our senses are engaged for sense gratification. Sarvopadhi, upadhi yuktah. So I am this body. So I must satisfy my senses. This is the contaminated stage of life. But when one comes to the understanding that I am not this body, I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God, so my senses, spiritual senses, should be engaged in the service of the Supreme Spiritual Being. That is wanted.

That is mukti. Mukti means: hitva anyatha-rupam. When we are conditioned, we give up our original constitutional position. Our original constitutional position is, as Caitanya Mahaprabhu says: jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Our original constitutional position is that we are eternal servant of Krsna. So as soon as we employ ourself in the service of the Lord, immediately we become liberated. Immediately. there is no question of passing through some process. This very process, to engage oneself, engage one's senses in the service of the Lord, means he is liberated.

So this liberation is open for everyone. Samam carantam. Krsna does not say that: "You come to Me. You become liberated." No. He's open for everyone. He says: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. He speaks to everyone. Not that He's speaking to Arjuna only. He's speaking to everyone. Bhagavad-gita is spoken not only for Arjuna. Arjuna is the, just like the target. But it is spoken for everyone, for all human beings. So one has to take advantage. Samam carantam. He's not partial that: "You become..." Just like the sunshine. The sunshine is not partial that: "Here is a poor man, here is a low-class man, here is a hog. I shall not distribute my shining there." No. Sun is equal. One has to take advantage of it. The sunshine is there open, but if you close your door, if you want to keep yourself in airtight darkness, that is your business.

Similarly Krsna is everywhere. Krsna is for everyone. Krsna is ready to accept you as soon as you surrender. Samam carantam. There is no restriction. Krsna says: mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg. 9.32]. They make distinction that this is lower class, this is higher class. So Krsna says, "Even lower class, so-called lower class, it doesn't matter, if he takes to Me, then he's also eligible to go, come back to home, back to Godhead." Samam carantam.

And He's the eternal time. Everything is going on within the time. The time... Our time calculation is past present, and future. This is relative. The other day we were discussing. This past, present, future is relative term. The, for a small insect, the past, present and future is different from my past, present and future. Relative term. Similarly Brahma's past, present and future is different from my past, present and future. But Krsna has no past, present and future. Therefore He's eternal. We have got past, present and future because we change this body. Now we have got this body... It has got a date. In such and such date I was born by my father and mother. Now this body will stay for some time. It will grow. It will produce some by-product. Then it will become old. Then dwindle. Then vanish, finish. No more this body. You accept another body. this body's finished. The history of this body, past, present, and future, finished. You accept another body. Again your past, present and future begins. But Krsna has no past, present, futures because He does not change His body. That is the difference between ourself and Krsna.

Just like Krsna spoke to Arjuna that: "In the past, I spoke to the Sun-god about this philosophy, Bhagavad-gita." So Arjuna could not believe it. Arjuna knew everything, but for our, our education, he put this question that: "Krsna, we are contemporary, we are born practically in the same period. How can I believe that You spoke this philosophy to the Sun-god?" And the reply was that: "My dear Arjuna, you were also present there, but you have forgotten. I have not forgotten. That is the difference." Past, present, future, for persons who forget. But who does not forget, who remains eternally, there is no past, present, future.

Therefore, Kunti is addressing Krsna as eternal. Manye tvam kalam. And because He is eternal, isanam, He is full controller. Kunti says: manye, "I think..." By the behavior of Krsna, she could understand that Krsna is eternal, Krsna is the Supreme Controller. Anadi-nidhanam. Anadi-nidhana... There is no beginning, there is no end. Therefore vibhum. Vibhu means the Supreme, the greatest. Vibhu. We are anu, we are smallest, and Krsna is the biggest. Krsna is also, because we are part and parcel of Krsna. Therefore Krsna is both the smallest and the biggest. We are simply smallest. But Krsna is both. Krsna, vibhu, greatest means all-inclusive. In the great, if you have got a big bag, you can hold so many things. In small bag you cannot do that.

So Krsna is vibhu. He includes the time, past, present and future. He includes everything and He's everywhere. That is vibhu. Vibhu, all-pervading. Krsna is everywhere. Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham. In the Brahma-samhita it is said that Krsna... Because without Krsna, the matter cannot develop. The scientists, the atheist scientists, they say that life comes out of matter. That is nonsense. No. Matter is one energy of Krsna, and spirit is another energy. The spirit is superior energy, and the matter is inferior energy. The matter develops when there is superior energy.

Just like this country, America. The same America was two hundred years ago, three hundred years ago, the land, but it was not developed. But because some superior living entities from Europe came here, now America is so much developed. Therefore the cause of development is the superior energy. The inferior energy, there are so many vacant land lying still. Just like in Africa, Australia. They're called "undeveloped." Why undeveloped? Because the superior energy, living entity, has not touched it. As soon as the superior energy, living entity, will touch it, the same land will develop so many factories, houses, cities, roads, cars, everything, as we can develop.

Therefore the conclusion is that matter cannot develop out of itself. No. That is not possible. The superior energy must touch it. Then it will be, will, active. There are so many machines. That is matter. Inferior energy. Unless a operator comes to touch the machine, it will not act. First-class motor car, very costly motor car machine, but unless a driver comes, it will stand for millions of years there. There is no use. This common sense is lacking. The matter cannot work independently unless the superior energy, living entity, touches it. This is common sense. So how these rascal scientists say that life develops from matter? No. How it can be concluded? There is no such instances. They falsely say that... They do not have sufficient knowledge.

So these universes, they have also developed on account of Krsna's presence. Therefore Brahma-samhita says: andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-s... They are studying now atoms. So many things are going on, electrons, protons, Why? Because the Krsna is there. This is really science. So Krsna has no past, present and future. He is eternal time. He has no beginning. He has no end. And He is equal to everyone. Samam carantam. Simply we have to prepare ourself to see Krsna, to understand Krsna. That is the business of Krsna consciousness.

Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.8.28 -- Los Angeles, April 20, 1973

"These Boys Were Jagai & Madhai"

"These Boys Were Jagai & Madhai"

20 Apr 75 , Vrndavana


Prabhupada: Thank you. (chuckles) Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is addressed by Rupa Gosvami as maha-vadanyaya.

namo maha-vadanyaya
krsna-prema-pradaya te
krsnaya krsna-caitanya-
namine gaura-tvise namah
[Cc. Madhya 19.53]

So Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself. Krsnaya krsna-caitanya-namine. He has assumed the name of Krsna Caitanya. Actually He is Krsna. That is confirmed in many literature. Especially in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said,

krsna-varnam tvisa akrsnam
sangopangastra-parsadam
yajnaih sankirtanaih prayair
yajanti hi su-medhasah
[SB 11.5.32]

So Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, after taking His sannyasa order, His name was Krsna Caitanya. So Rupa Gosvami said that "You are Krsna. You have now come as Krsna Caitanya." Why? Krsna-prema-pradaya te: [Cc. Madhya 19.53] "Just to distribute love of Krsna." And Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission was prema pum-artho mahan. Generally people understand dharma artha kama moksa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Adi 1.90], but Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that above moksa, above liberation, there is love of God. That is wanted. Prema pum-artho mahan. And this is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsaranam satam, vastavya-vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. And Sridhara Swami says that kaitava-dharma... In simple word, cheating. Kaitava means cheating, or false. So when there are false dealings, that is cheating. So according to Vyasadeva, dharma artha kama moksa, that is not very essential thing. Real thing is how to advance in the science of loving God, Krsna, Krsna-prema. And the Srimad-Bhagavatam says,

sa vai pumsam paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhoksaje
ahaituky apratihata
yena atma samprasidati
[SB 1.2.6]

If you want really peace, then you should stand on the platform of paro dharma. Paro dharma. Just like Krsna has described, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim parah. Para and para. Para is applicable to the purusa, and para is applicable to the prakrti. So we are prakrti, we are not purusa. Purusa is Krsna, as described by Arjuna in the Bhagavad-gita, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan, purusam sasvatam adyam [Bg. 10.12]. And in the Brahma-samhita also it is: adi-purusam. Krsna is described, adi-purusam. Isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah, anadih adih govindam tam aham bhajami. [Bs. 5.1]

So this Krsna-bhakti, Krsna personally came to teach Krsna-bhakti. He came here in this district Mathura. And the Krsna birthplace is still there. So Krsna personally came to teach the science of Krsna-bhakti. And although He proposed that dharma-samsthapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge, but at the end He says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And this is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that dharma-projjhita kaitavo atra. Except surrendering to the lotus feet of Krsna, anything which is going on in the name of dharma, that is not dharma. Therefore Krsna says sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. When Krsna came, He did not come to reestablish Hindu religion or Christian religion or Muslim religion. No. Religion is religion. Gold is gold. You cannot say "Hindu gold," "Muslim gold," "Christian gold." That is not possible. That is not possible. That is called kaitava-dharma, cheating dharma. Gold is gold, pure gold. Therefore Bhagavata says, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam: [SB 6.3.19] "Dharma means the order or the law given by God." That is dharma. This is the simple explanation of dharma. If you want to know what do we mean by dharma, then dharma means dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like law. Law means which is given, sanctioned by the governor. You cannot make your law at home. You cannot say, "The law given by the government or by the governor, I don't care for it. I shall make my own law." That is not possible. That will never be accepted as law. You can make your law. Similarly, if you manufacture dharma without any reference to the authority, that is not dharma. That is cheating religion. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavah.

So therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, what He is speaking, mam ekam saranam vraja, that is dharma. All other things are cheating. And when Krsna says, mam ekam saranam vraja, He does not say it to any particular community or any country or any nation. He speaks to everyone.

sarva-yonisu kaunteya
sambhavanti murtayo yah
tasam mahad yonir brahma
aham bija-pradah pita
[Bg. 14.4]

He says, "I am the seed-giving father of all forms of life." Krsna does not say that "I am speaking to Indian or the Hindus." No. Krsna is speaking to everyone, to His every son. It doesn't matter whether he is white or black or blue or... It doesn't matter. These are skin disease. Krsna says that we don't take this body as yourself. Asmin dehe. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam... [Bg. 2.13]. This transformation of the body, that is natural. But within the body, the part and parcel of Krsna is there. That you have to understand, that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gita. We have to understand what is there within the body. That is the beginning of spiritual education. Unfortunately, the whole world is going on under the impression that "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am European..." That is condemned in the sastra.

yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke
sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih
yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij
janesu abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah
[SB 10.84.13]

Go, go means cow, and kharah means ass. So yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. This bag of three dhatus-kapha, pitta, vayu -- if one takes it that "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am American," so sastra says, "He is not even human being." Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. So this Krsna consciousness movement is very, very important from this angle of vision, that everyone is thinking this body as he is. Nobody understands that he is within this body. Just like we are within this dress. I am not this dress. This is the primary education of spiritual life. Unfortunately, it is very much lacking. And now you can see practically that these European and American boys, they are all young men, but they have forgotten the bodily relationship. We have got in our institution Africans, Canadians, Australians, Europeans, Indians, but they do not consider with reference to this bodily concept of life. They live as eternal servant of Krsna. That is the instruction given by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, jivera svarupa haya nitya krsna dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109].

So actually, if we want to be happy, then we have to accept the principle of Srimad-Bhagavatam, yato bhaktir adhoksaje. Bhakti comes out of love. You cannot make one forced to love you. It comes automatically. That automatic love is there in everyone's heart for Krsna. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta:

nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya
sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

Udaya means it is awakened. Everyone has got love for Krsna within the heart. That is natural. But that love is distributed in different ways. How? Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma idya-dhih [SB 10.84.13]. This love has been distributed familywise, communitywise, nationwise, countrywise, like that. So this love has to be concentrated, converted to be love of Krsna. That is required. Then everything is perfect. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teaching, and He practically... Krsna-prema-prdaya. To develop love for somebody, that requires very elaborate process. It is not... Because we are in the darkness. Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita,

manusyanam sahasresu
kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam
kascid vetti mam tattvatah
[Bg. 7.3]

So we cannot understand even Krsna, what is Krsna. Actually, there are so many malinterpretation about Krsna. I do not wish to discuss because they have been made mistaken by big, big leaders. So people cannot understand even Krsna, what is Krsna, and what to speak of loving Krsna. That is very difficult job. But Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He distributed this love of Krsna. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Lord Nityananda is standing before you, and He delivered many, many sinful persons to the transcendental position of love of Krsna. Srila Narottama dasa Thakura has sung, vrajendra-nandana yei, saci-suta hoilo sei, balarama hoilo nitai. This Balarama, He became Nitai, and Krsna, He became Caitanya Mahaprabhu. These two brothers, the same two brothers, Rama-Laksman, Krsna-Balarama, again as Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu. So what was Their business? The papi-tapi jata chilo, hari-name uddharilo. This is Their business. All the papis and all the persons suffering from material anxieties, They delivered, "Yes." How? Tara saksi jagai madhai. There were two brothers, Jagai and Madhai. They are very debauchees. That debauchees means what was their fault? The fault was that they took their birth in brahmana family, but they became woman-hunter and drunkards and cheaters, like that. So Nityanand a Prabhu delivered them to become first-class Vaisnava. Papi-tapi jata chilo, hari-name uddharilo, tara saksi jagai and madhai. So five hundred years ago, to become a drunkard was most abominable, especially in the higher section of the Hindu society. But now it has become a fashion. So if you want to develop the position of the society, position of the country, which is now full with papi-tapi, you have to accept the process of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and that is practically being manifested. These European, American boys, they are also the same type, Jagai and Madhai. That is a fact. They were at least. Now they are not. So how they have become delivered? The same process. Papi-tapi jata chilo, hari-name uddharilo.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is so important, and there is practical result, that you introduce this chanting of Hare Krsna maha-mantra offenselessly, not with offense, then the world situation will improve very much. That's a fact. And it is being actually enacted in the present position. We are sending our men from village to village in Europe and America. We have introduced. We are taking advantage of the modern facilities. We are using this microphone for chanting Hare Krsna mantra, we are using nice buses, cars and wagons to go to village to village and distribute book and chant Hare Krsna. One of the leaders is present here, Sriman Tamala Krsna Gosvami. He is going. He is controlling about one dozen buses. And here is Hamsaduta also. He is doing the same in Germany. So we have introduced this as Caitanya Mahaprabhu ordered, prthivite ache yata nagaradi-grama. Throughout the whole world, as many villages and towns are there, this sankirtana movement should be introduced. And especially in India, because if in India the people are generally Krsna conscious. By artificial means they are trying to forget. This is the position. This should be stopped. They have got natural tendency for becoming Krsna conscious. Therefore in these days, still so many hundreds and thousands of people coming to Vrndavana to relish the transcendental mellow of Krsna consciousness. And now the foreigners are also attracted to Krsna consciousness. And I am trying to place them in our temple. This temple is one of them. We have got four, five temples in India. We are constructing one big temple in Hyderabad, and we are getting good response. So it is our request to the leaders of the society and to the people of India that they may take this Krsna conscious movement, Hare Krsna movement, very seriously. It will be good for everyone and the whole world will become peaceful. We do not expect that throughout the whole world everyone will take to Krsna consciousness. But even five percent, two percent, three percent people takes to Krsna consciousness, there will be great example. Yad yad acarati sresthah lokas tad anuvartate [Bg. 3.21].

So our only request is that this simple thing,

harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam
kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha
[Cc. Adi 17.21]

this formula of the Vedic sastra. And you will be surprised. I invite you to come to our different centers in Europe and America, how they are chanting, dancing before the Deity, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Nityananda or Radha-Krsna. Recently I had been to Atlanta for the first time. But the boys and the girls there, they have taken three big, big houses. The middle house has been transformed into temple. How nicely they are chanting and dancing. You will be surprised if you go. So this movement is undoubtedly increasing in the foreign countries, and why not in our country? So the government, the leaders and the guardians, they should deeply contemplate on the serious nature of this movement and help us. Now we are bringing men from the foreign countries to preach. How long I shall bring? If we want to spread this movement all over India very seriously, then we invite educated, intellectual young men to come forward to study this movement. It is not blind; we have got books. We have already published about fifty books on this movement. So for the Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement is meant for both kind of men. The ordinary men without any education, illiterate, he can also take to it, and the most advanced scientists, philosopher, philanthropist, politician, they also can take to it. So we are helping both ways. Those who are educated scientist, philosopher, for them we have got volumes of books. And those who are not educated, they can simply chant Hare Krsna. That will help them, both ways. Therefore this movement has become important and interesting. Our books are being purchased by the topmost class of man. Big, big professors in the universities, they are giving standing order. The books which are not published, they are putting standing order. Here our one sannyasi is present, Satsvarupa. He is visiting the libraries, universities, professors, and we are getting very good response. So don't take it as a sectarian movement. Don't misunderstand this movement as a CIA movement. These are all foolishness. Do you think that the Americans are so fools that for propagating their CIA movement they will become Vaisnava and chant and dance? The Americans have become so fools? No. They have taken it very seriously. They are not CIA, not American nor European. They are Vaisnavas; they are servant of Krsna. Don't misunderstand them. And try to cooperate and help this movement for the benefit of the whole human society.

Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Speech -- Vrndavana, April 20, 1975