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Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: "He further prays..."
Prabhupada: Our... Srila Rupa Gosvami wanted to please Sanatana Gosvami. Our duty is to please the superior, not the public. We are giving service to the public according to the direction of the superior authority. We do not manufacture any program of service. That is not our business. Whatever is ordered by the... Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He's Krsna Himself. Still, He was following the authorities. Sri Krsna, Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality, He was also referring to the Brahma-sutra: brahma-sutra-padais caiva viniscitam. So this is the way, that any bona fide spiritual propaganda must be following the footsteps of previous authority.
At the present moment, it has become a fashion to manufacture some idea. But that is not the Vedic way. Vedic way is to receive the message through parampara system. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayoh viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Not to deviate the parampara. So Sanatana Gosvami was taught by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu continually for two months personally in Benares, Varanasi. Therefore he's our authority. The Hari-bhakti-vilasa, the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya, they follow the principles of Hari-bhakti-vilasa. In that Hari-bhakti-vilasa Sanatana Gosvami recommends, tatha diksa-vidhanena dvijatvam jayate nrnam. Diksa-vidhana, by the process of diksa, a, any human being can be elevated to the position of a bona fide brahmana. Vidhanena. Vidhana. The very word is used, vidhana. Vidhana means bona fide process. Tatha diksa-vidhanena. There is another good suggestion: yatha kancanatam yati kamsa-rasa-vidhanena. Rasa. Rasa means ... Another meaning of rasa means... What is that? What is called? I forget. The metal...?
Devotee: Bell metal.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pradyumna: Bell metal?
Prabhupada: No, not bell... That liquid metal.
Devotees: Mercury.
Prabhupada: Mercury. Mercury. Hydrox... What is called? Hydroid?
Devotee: Quicksilver?
Prabhupada: No. Another name is hydrogeroid. That is the chemical name of mercury. You know it. Hydrogeroid? Yes. Unguentum hydrogeroid. Yes. That is another name of the mercury. Hydrogeroid. So in Sanskrit it is called rasa. Rasayana. From mercury, rasa, the chemistry is called rasayana-sastra. Actually, rasayana-sastra, chemical composition, begins from mercury and sulphur. That is the beginning of chemical composition. So rasa-vidhanena, by chemical interaction of sulphur and mercury, if you can add tin and copper, then it becomes gold. You can manufacture gold, provided you know the process, how to mix up copper, tin and mercury. With via media of sulphuric acid. Sulphuric acid is the mother of chemicals. Without sulphur, you cannot make any chemical composition. Therefore all chemical composition are called sulphate, sulphite, like that. So Sanatana Gosvami gives this idea of chemical composition. It appears that he knew how to work with chemicals.
yatha kancanatam yati
kamsa-rasa-vidhanatah
tatha diksa-vidhanena
dvijatvam jayate nrnam
So we are trying to follow Sanatana Gosvami. By diksa-vidhanena, by initiating persons any, from anywhere. It does not matter. Because in this age, Kali-yuga, the diksa-vidhana is performed according, according to Pancaratrika-vidhi. Not Vaidika-vidhi. Vaidika-vidhi is very strict. Unless one is bona fide son of a dvija, the initiation was not given. To the sudras, there was no initiation. A brahmana ksatriya, vaisya. So these are the Vedic process. So in the Kali-yuga, because it is to be understood that everyone is a sudra, therefore Vaidika-vidhana cannot be applied. Vaidika-vidhana requires that one must be born by a brahmana, ksatriya. Then he's eligible for being initiated. But in the Kali-yuga, that is not possible. Therefore the Pancaratriki-vidhi is accepted. Narada-Pancaratra. Tatha diksa-vidhanena. This diksa-vidhana, recommended by Sanatana Gosvami, means Pancaratriki-vidhi. Now Rupa Gosvami says in his Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu,
sruti-smrti-puranadi-
pancaratriki-vidhim vina
aikantiki harer bhaktir
utpatayaiva kalpate
[Brs. 1.2.101]
Without undergoing the process of sruti -- means Vedas -- smrti, the Puranas, and other corollary literatures, Bhagavad-gita, Mahabharata, Smrti, Manu-smrti, the laws given by Manu, Parasara... So Hari-bhakti, devotional service to the Lord, must be approved by Vedas, Puranas. Pancaratriki-vidhi. Otherwise, any show of devotional service is simply disturbance. Anyone can manufacture. And it is being supported by some very big missionary activities: yata mata tata pata. You can manufacture your way of religious principles. But that is not Vedic way. Vedic way is evam parampara-praptam [Bg. 4.2]. Although we are initiating people from low-grade society, still, following the principles of Pancaratriki-vidhi, injunction of the Gosvamis. Therefore it is bona fide. Bhagavata-vidhi, Pancaratriki-vidhi, they are bona fide vidhi. So Sanatana Gosvami... Rupa Gosvami, first offers his respectful obeisances to his elder brother, Sanatana Gosvami, because Rupa Gosvami accepted him as spiritual master. And he was initiated by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sanatana Gosvami. Rupa Gosvami also. So he offers his respectful obeisances to Sanatana Gosvami. Go on.
Pradyumna: "He further prays that by residing in that ocean of nectar he may always feel transcendental pleasure in the service of Radha and Krsna."
Prabhupada: Yes. "Ocean of nectar." The Mayavadi philosophers, generally they give this example that the, all the rivers, they flow down to the ocean. This example is generally given that when the river mixes with the ocean, it doesn't matter which course it is following. After all, it is coming to the ocean, merging into the ocean. So that is ultimate liberation. But this analogy... Analogy, if you give some analogy, you must consider all the similar points. That is the way of analogy. The more you have got similar points, then the analogy is perfect. So the rivers merging into the ocean. Then you must take further consideration that the superficial water mixing with the ocean is again evaporated. The water is evaporated by scorching heat of the sun. Just like now we see cloud in the sky. This is nothing but evaporated water from the sea. So the water which merged into the water and into the ocean of the, water of the ocean, now it is evaporated in the sky. And again it will fall down. And then again glide to the ocean. So this is called avagamana, coming and going, coming and going. But our Vaisnava philosophy is not to merge into the water, but keep your identity and go deep into the water. So that you may not be evaporated. The fish and the aquatic animals within the water, they are not evaporated. They are not going to become cloud and again fall down. Therefore Sanatana, Rupa Gosvami says, "He further prays that by residing in the ocean of nectar he may always feel transcendental pleasure..."
Our philosophy is go back to home, back to Godhead. Not in the spiritual sky. Paravyoma. Spiritual sky, there is chance of falling down. Why chance? It is sure. Those who are merging into the Brahman effulgence, the sastra says that they again fall down. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32]. Aruhya krcchrena. They, jnanis, they undergo severe austerities, penances to merge into the existence of impersonal Brahman. But they fall down again. They fall down again because they have no shelter. Anadhrta-yusmad-anghrayah. As, as in this sky, there are many planets. You can go with high speed to the Moon planet or Venus planet. But if you have no shelter to stay there, you come back again on this earthly planet, that is practically experienced, similarly you may merge into the Brahman effulgence. Just like our plane goes very high and, at a certain point, we see it is invisible, merged. Actually, it is not merged. Our eyes cannot see any more. They take it as merge.
Therefore Jiva Gosvami, this merging principle, he has explained: just like a green bird enters into a green tree, it, it appears that the bird is no more existing. To the imperfect eyes. But the bird is existing. We cannot see. Both the tree and the bird being green, we see it has merged. Because the spiritual sky and the spiritual living being, a small, it merges it does not merge. It is there. The individuality is there. And because this individuality, fragment of the Supreme Brahman, is eternal, is eternal, sanatana... It is not that spirit can be cut into pieces. That is not possible. So we are fragmental parts. That means eternally we are so, individual. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). We are one of the nityas. There are innumerable nityas and cetanas, the living entities, part and parcel of the supreme living entity, Krsna. They're all individual.
Krsna also says in the Bhagavad-gita, "My dear Arjuna, do not think that I, you, or all these soldiers and kings who have assembled in this battlefield, they were not existing in the past. They were. And they are existing at present. And similarly they will exist in the future." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. So where is the question of merging? And loss of individuality? The individuality remains. It remained in the past. It is, at the present moment, it is continuing. And in the future also, they will remain, the same way. This is clearly explained in the second chapter of Bhagavad-gita. So merging does not mean, always, that losing one's individuality. The individuality's there. Therefore the theory of merging into the existence of impersonal Brahman is to stay there for some time, again fall down. Just like the same example that the water of the rivers, they merge into the ocean, but again it is evaporated, in the sky, and it falls. Again goes through the river, merges. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. This is going on. One mani..., once manifested, and again merging. This is going on.
So our philosophy is that once going into the ocean, no more coming back. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. That is our philosophy. If we once go in the spiritual world, we do not like to come back. We stay with Krsna and dance with Him, or play with Him, or serve with, serve Him as tree, as plant, as water, as cows, as land, as cowherd boys, as father, mother, or as gopis. This is our philosophy. Once we go to Krsna, we live forever with Him in either of these capacities. Let me live at Vrndavana in any capacity. It doesn't matter. But live there. Therefore he says that "He further prays that by residing in that ocean of nectar he may always feel eternally continually, without any cessation..." Anandamayo 'bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). To remain anadamaya. That is the principle of Vaisnava philosophy. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Let us offer our respectful obeisances to all the great devotees and acaryas or holy teachers, who are compared with sharks in the great ocean of nectar and who do not care for the various rivers of liberation. Impersonalists are very fond of merging into the supreme, like rivers that come down and merge into the ocean. The ocean can be compared with liberation and the rivers with all the different paths of liberation. The impersonalists are dwelling in the river water, which eventually comes to mix with the ocean. They have no information, however, that within the ocean, as within the rivers, there are innumerable aquatic living entities. The sharks who dwell in the ocean do not care for the rivers which are gliding down into it."
Prabhupada: Yes. The shark, big fish, shark, big body, they have no place to come into the river, come back. There is no place. Big crocodile, big sharks, they do not come to the river. They constantly remain in the ocean. Go on. Yes.
Pradyumna: "The devotees eternally live in the ocean of devotional service, and they do not care for the rivers. In other words, those who are pure devotees always remain in the ocean of transcendental loving service to the Lord and have no business with the other processes which are compared to the rivers that only gradually come to the ocean. Srila Rupa Gosvami prays to his spiritual master Srila Sanatana Gosvami for the protection of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, the ocean of the pure nectar of devotional service, from the argumentative logicians who unnecessarily meddle in the science of service to the Lord. He compares their arguments and logic to volcanic eruptions in the midst of the ocean."
Prabhupada: Yes. Na tams tarkena yojayet. Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet. Simply by arguments, logic, you cannot understand Krsna. That is the Vedic injunction. Tarko apratistho. You cannot establish the truth by simple logic and arguments. You may be very great logician, but somebody may come who is greater logician than you, and he defeats you. That is going on. Tarko apratistha srutayo vibhinnam. Now, if you read the Vedas, you'll find some contradiction. Not contradiction. But to the neophyte, it appears to be contradiction. Just like we have cited the example that animal stool is impure, but cow dung is pure. So by logic you can say that "Cow dung is also the stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" But in Vedas you'll find such things. Therefore by simple studying, without surrendering yourself to the spiritual master, you'll find all these contradictions and you'll be bewildered. Srutayo vibhinna. They are not vibhinna. But to our limited knowledge, sometimes they appear as vibhinnam, different. Srutayo vibhinnam nasau munir yasya matam na bhinnam. And you won't find a philosopher who does not agree, who does not disagree with our philosophers.
Therefore dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the footsteps of great acaryas. That is the way. These mahajanas are described in the sastra like Lord Brahma, Lord Siva, svayambhur naradah sambhuh kapilah kumaro manuh [SB 6.3.20]. They are all mentioned. So you follow any one of these great personalities, Brahma... Brahma is the greatest personality within this universe, and he has got his sampradaya which is known as Brahma-sampradaya. Similarly Lord Siva has also a sampradaya which is called Rudra-sampradaya. Similarly, Narada-Pancaratra, Kumara-sampradaya. So follow the sampradaya. Sampradaya vihina te mantras te viphalam matah. If you do not follow any bona fide sampradaya, then your path of spiritual advancement will be baffled. You will simply waste your time. Viphalam matah. So we should follow the footsteps of great acaryas. Then our progress is positive. There is no fear.
So to take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Just like Rupa Gosvami's described, describing herewith that he wants to take shelter of the ocean, deep into the ocean, and he doesn't care for the rivers. And the, what is called? Bharavagni (?)? There is some whirling pool in the water. That is compared with the arguments. Sometimes these logicians, they create argumental calamity in the process of devotional service. But Rupa Gosvami recommends that we should not be deviated by the arguments, karmis, jnanis and yogis. Let them do their own business. We do not care for them. We give them respect as far as possible, but we don't, don't accept the path of karma-jnana-yoga. Jnana-karmady-anavrtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Jnana-karmady-anavrtam. Anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. We should not be deviated by the process of karma-jnana-yoga. That is pure devotional service, suddha-bhakti. Suddha-bhakti. We should stay. We should fix up in suddha-bhakti path. That is the recommendation of Srila Rupa Gosvami. Go on.
Pradyumna: "In the midst of the ocean such volcanic eruptions can do very little harm. Similarly, those who are against devotional service to the Lord and who put forward many philosophical theses about the ultimate transcendental realization cannot disturb this great ocean of devotional service."
Prabhupada: Go on.
Pradyumna: "The author of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami, very humbly submits that he is just trying to spread Krsna consciousness all over the world, although he humbly thinks himself unfit for this work. That should be the attitude of all preachers of the Krsna consciousness movement, following in the footsteps of Srila Rupa Gosvami. We should never think of ourselves as great preachers, but should always consider that we are simply instrumental to the previous acaryas, and simply by following in their footsteps, we may be able to do something for the benefit of suffering humanity."
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like Narottama dasa Thakura says, tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa. Tandera carana-sevi. Our main business is..., (uproar in background, sounds like monkey attacked audience) (pause) Hut! Hut! (laughter, applause) So our main business is to serve the acaryas. This Krsna consciousness movement means why..., we are trying to serve the acaryas. Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His direct disciples, the Sad-gosvamis, and their disciples. Rupa-raghunatha-pade haibe akuti. That is required.
tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa
janame janame mora ei abhilasa
So this society is attempting to create a society of devotees all over the world, without any discrimination of caste, creed, color. One must be a devotee of Krsna. Yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. One must know the science of Krsna. Then he can preach to others. Sei guru haya. That is our purpose.
People may not misunderstand our propagation that we are proselytizing some persons to Hinduism. Yesterday one so-called jnani came to me, and he challenged me that "Swamiji, formerly the Christians used to convert the Hindus and the Muhammadans used to convert the Hindus into Muhammadanism or Christianism. Now you are converting the Christians into Hinduism. Then where is the difference between their activities and your activities?" So this fool does not know this is not making a person from Christian to Hindu. This is not the process. We are not interested. I never said in any meeting in the Western countries that "Hindu religion is better than your Christian religion. You give up your Christian religion and come to Hindu religion." No, that was not my propaganda. There are many old students here present. They may remember. I never made propaganda. Rather when they inquired one can attain perfection by following Christian principles, I said yes. So our propaganda is not to proselytize people from Christian to Hinduism. Our propaganda is to make everyone know this fact, that everyone is eternally servant of Krsna. That is our propaganda. Jivera svarupa haya nitya krsna dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is our propaganda. We are trying to convince people that "Your original position is servant of Krsna. You have now forgotten that. You revive your Krsna consciousness, and you'll become happy." That is our propaganda.
Do not misunderstand that we are trying to spread Hinduism. Hinduism is a fictitious term. Because there is no fixed-up conclusion. Somebody's accepting this, somebody... Even the Jains and the Sikhs and many other sub-religions, they are also ruled by the Hindu rules, Hindu law. So actually this word Hindu is given by the Muhammadans. We don't find this word in the Vedic literature, Hindu. It is later, I mean to say, prakrta. Or in Bhagavad-gita you won't find the word Hindu. Or in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Or any other Vedic literature. This is the convention of latest age. Actually, we, the followers or Vedic principles, our system is varnasrama-dharma, four varnas and four asramas. This is, this can be applicable. But varnasrama-dharma is applicable in any, in anywhere. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. The creation of God... Just like sun. Sun is creation of God. Sun is visible everywhere. Not that something American sun and something Indian sun. No. The sun is the same. Similarly, catur-varnyam, the four principles of division, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, and sudra, they are everywhere. It is not the monopoly of India.
Anywhere there are intelligent class of men, God conscious men, they are called brahmanas. Anywhere who are prepared for the right cause, administrator, ksatriyas. Anywhere who are interested in business, trade, agriculture, they are called vaisyas. And anywhere who are simply satisfied by serving others, he's called sudra. So our principle is not to proselytize from Christian to Hindu or Muhammadan to Hindu. We are teaching simply how to revive his own constitutional position to become servant of Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness movement. So it is applicable anywhere and everywhere. It is not that it is monopoly of India or for the Hindus. No. And actually it is being accepted, practically. In all countries. Even from all religious sect. In our Society there are boys and girls, they are coming from Christian group, Jews group, Muhammadan group, but when they come here, all of them become the servant of Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness movement.
Thank you very much. (end)
Pradyumna: (reading) "Let me offer my respectful
obeisances unto the lotus feet of Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada and of Srila
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada by whose inspiration I have been
engaged in the matter of compiling this summary study of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu.
This is the sublime science of devotional service as propounded by Sri Caitanya
Mahaprabhu, who appeared 500 years ago in West Bengal, India, to propagate the
movement of Krsna consciousness. Srila Rupa Gosvami begins his great book by
offering his respectful obeisances unto Sri Sanatana Gosvami who is his elder
brother and spiritual master, and he prays that Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu may be
very pleasing to him."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: "He further prays..."
Prabhupada: Our... Srila Rupa Gosvami wanted to please Sanatana Gosvami. Our duty is to please the superior, not the public. We are giving service to the public according to the direction of the superior authority. We do not manufacture any program of service. That is not our business. Whatever is ordered by the... Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He's Krsna Himself. Still, He was following the authorities. Sri Krsna, Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality, He was also referring to the Brahma-sutra: brahma-sutra-padais caiva viniscitam. So this is the way, that any bona fide spiritual propaganda must be following the footsteps of previous authority.
At the present moment, it has become a fashion to manufacture some idea. But that is not the Vedic way. Vedic way is to receive the message through parampara system. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayoh viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Not to deviate the parampara. So Sanatana Gosvami was taught by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu continually for two months personally in Benares, Varanasi. Therefore he's our authority. The Hari-bhakti-vilasa, the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya, they follow the principles of Hari-bhakti-vilasa. In that Hari-bhakti-vilasa Sanatana Gosvami recommends, tatha diksa-vidhanena dvijatvam jayate nrnam. Diksa-vidhana, by the process of diksa, a, any human being can be elevated to the position of a bona fide brahmana. Vidhanena. Vidhana. The very word is used, vidhana. Vidhana means bona fide process. Tatha diksa-vidhanena. There is another good suggestion: yatha kancanatam yati kamsa-rasa-vidhanena. Rasa. Rasa means ... Another meaning of rasa means... What is that? What is called? I forget. The metal...?
Devotee: Bell metal.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pradyumna: Bell metal?
Prabhupada: No, not bell... That liquid metal.
Devotees: Mercury.
Prabhupada: Mercury. Mercury. Hydrox... What is called? Hydroid?
Devotee: Quicksilver?
Prabhupada: No. Another name is hydrogeroid. That is the chemical name of mercury. You know it. Hydrogeroid? Yes. Unguentum hydrogeroid. Yes. That is another name of the mercury. Hydrogeroid. So in Sanskrit it is called rasa. Rasayana. From mercury, rasa, the chemistry is called rasayana-sastra. Actually, rasayana-sastra, chemical composition, begins from mercury and sulphur. That is the beginning of chemical composition. So rasa-vidhanena, by chemical interaction of sulphur and mercury, if you can add tin and copper, then it becomes gold. You can manufacture gold, provided you know the process, how to mix up copper, tin and mercury. With via media of sulphuric acid. Sulphuric acid is the mother of chemicals. Without sulphur, you cannot make any chemical composition. Therefore all chemical composition are called sulphate, sulphite, like that. So Sanatana Gosvami gives this idea of chemical composition. It appears that he knew how to work with chemicals.
yatha kancanatam yati
kamsa-rasa-vidhanatah
tatha diksa-vidhanena
dvijatvam jayate nrnam
So we are trying to follow Sanatana Gosvami. By diksa-vidhanena, by initiating persons any, from anywhere. It does not matter. Because in this age, Kali-yuga, the diksa-vidhana is performed according, according to Pancaratrika-vidhi. Not Vaidika-vidhi. Vaidika-vidhi is very strict. Unless one is bona fide son of a dvija, the initiation was not given. To the sudras, there was no initiation. A brahmana ksatriya, vaisya. So these are the Vedic process. So in the Kali-yuga, because it is to be understood that everyone is a sudra, therefore Vaidika-vidhana cannot be applied. Vaidika-vidhana requires that one must be born by a brahmana, ksatriya. Then he's eligible for being initiated. But in the Kali-yuga, that is not possible. Therefore the Pancaratriki-vidhi is accepted. Narada-Pancaratra. Tatha diksa-vidhanena. This diksa-vidhana, recommended by Sanatana Gosvami, means Pancaratriki-vidhi. Now Rupa Gosvami says in his Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu,
sruti-smrti-puranadi-
pancaratriki-vidhim vina
aikantiki harer bhaktir
utpatayaiva kalpate
[Brs. 1.2.101]
Without undergoing the process of sruti -- means Vedas -- smrti, the Puranas, and other corollary literatures, Bhagavad-gita, Mahabharata, Smrti, Manu-smrti, the laws given by Manu, Parasara... So Hari-bhakti, devotional service to the Lord, must be approved by Vedas, Puranas. Pancaratriki-vidhi. Otherwise, any show of devotional service is simply disturbance. Anyone can manufacture. And it is being supported by some very big missionary activities: yata mata tata pata. You can manufacture your way of religious principles. But that is not Vedic way. Vedic way is evam parampara-praptam [Bg. 4.2]. Although we are initiating people from low-grade society, still, following the principles of Pancaratriki-vidhi, injunction of the Gosvamis. Therefore it is bona fide. Bhagavata-vidhi, Pancaratriki-vidhi, they are bona fide vidhi. So Sanatana Gosvami... Rupa Gosvami, first offers his respectful obeisances to his elder brother, Sanatana Gosvami, because Rupa Gosvami accepted him as spiritual master. And he was initiated by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sanatana Gosvami. Rupa Gosvami also. So he offers his respectful obeisances to Sanatana Gosvami. Go on.
Pradyumna: "He further prays that by residing in that ocean of nectar he may always feel transcendental pleasure in the service of Radha and Krsna."
Prabhupada: Yes. "Ocean of nectar." The Mayavadi philosophers, generally they give this example that the, all the rivers, they flow down to the ocean. This example is generally given that when the river mixes with the ocean, it doesn't matter which course it is following. After all, it is coming to the ocean, merging into the ocean. So that is ultimate liberation. But this analogy... Analogy, if you give some analogy, you must consider all the similar points. That is the way of analogy. The more you have got similar points, then the analogy is perfect. So the rivers merging into the ocean. Then you must take further consideration that the superficial water mixing with the ocean is again evaporated. The water is evaporated by scorching heat of the sun. Just like now we see cloud in the sky. This is nothing but evaporated water from the sea. So the water which merged into the water and into the ocean of the, water of the ocean, now it is evaporated in the sky. And again it will fall down. And then again glide to the ocean. So this is called avagamana, coming and going, coming and going. But our Vaisnava philosophy is not to merge into the water, but keep your identity and go deep into the water. So that you may not be evaporated. The fish and the aquatic animals within the water, they are not evaporated. They are not going to become cloud and again fall down. Therefore Sanatana, Rupa Gosvami says, "He further prays that by residing in the ocean of nectar he may always feel transcendental pleasure..."
Our philosophy is go back to home, back to Godhead. Not in the spiritual sky. Paravyoma. Spiritual sky, there is chance of falling down. Why chance? It is sure. Those who are merging into the Brahman effulgence, the sastra says that they again fall down. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32]. Aruhya krcchrena. They, jnanis, they undergo severe austerities, penances to merge into the existence of impersonal Brahman. But they fall down again. They fall down again because they have no shelter. Anadhrta-yusmad-anghrayah. As, as in this sky, there are many planets. You can go with high speed to the Moon planet or Venus planet. But if you have no shelter to stay there, you come back again on this earthly planet, that is practically experienced, similarly you may merge into the Brahman effulgence. Just like our plane goes very high and, at a certain point, we see it is invisible, merged. Actually, it is not merged. Our eyes cannot see any more. They take it as merge.
Therefore Jiva Gosvami, this merging principle, he has explained: just like a green bird enters into a green tree, it, it appears that the bird is no more existing. To the imperfect eyes. But the bird is existing. We cannot see. Both the tree and the bird being green, we see it has merged. Because the spiritual sky and the spiritual living being, a small, it merges it does not merge. It is there. The individuality is there. And because this individuality, fragment of the Supreme Brahman, is eternal, is eternal, sanatana... It is not that spirit can be cut into pieces. That is not possible. So we are fragmental parts. That means eternally we are so, individual. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). We are one of the nityas. There are innumerable nityas and cetanas, the living entities, part and parcel of the supreme living entity, Krsna. They're all individual.
Krsna also says in the Bhagavad-gita, "My dear Arjuna, do not think that I, you, or all these soldiers and kings who have assembled in this battlefield, they were not existing in the past. They were. And they are existing at present. And similarly they will exist in the future." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. So where is the question of merging? And loss of individuality? The individuality remains. It remained in the past. It is, at the present moment, it is continuing. And in the future also, they will remain, the same way. This is clearly explained in the second chapter of Bhagavad-gita. So merging does not mean, always, that losing one's individuality. The individuality's there. Therefore the theory of merging into the existence of impersonal Brahman is to stay there for some time, again fall down. Just like the same example that the water of the rivers, they merge into the ocean, but again it is evaporated, in the sky, and it falls. Again goes through the river, merges. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. This is going on. One mani..., once manifested, and again merging. This is going on.
So our philosophy is that once going into the ocean, no more coming back. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. That is our philosophy. If we once go in the spiritual world, we do not like to come back. We stay with Krsna and dance with Him, or play with Him, or serve with, serve Him as tree, as plant, as water, as cows, as land, as cowherd boys, as father, mother, or as gopis. This is our philosophy. Once we go to Krsna, we live forever with Him in either of these capacities. Let me live at Vrndavana in any capacity. It doesn't matter. But live there. Therefore he says that "He further prays that by residing in that ocean of nectar he may always feel eternally continually, without any cessation..." Anandamayo 'bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). To remain anadamaya. That is the principle of Vaisnava philosophy. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Let us offer our respectful obeisances to all the great devotees and acaryas or holy teachers, who are compared with sharks in the great ocean of nectar and who do not care for the various rivers of liberation. Impersonalists are very fond of merging into the supreme, like rivers that come down and merge into the ocean. The ocean can be compared with liberation and the rivers with all the different paths of liberation. The impersonalists are dwelling in the river water, which eventually comes to mix with the ocean. They have no information, however, that within the ocean, as within the rivers, there are innumerable aquatic living entities. The sharks who dwell in the ocean do not care for the rivers which are gliding down into it."
Prabhupada: Yes. The shark, big fish, shark, big body, they have no place to come into the river, come back. There is no place. Big crocodile, big sharks, they do not come to the river. They constantly remain in the ocean. Go on. Yes.
Pradyumna: "The devotees eternally live in the ocean of devotional service, and they do not care for the rivers. In other words, those who are pure devotees always remain in the ocean of transcendental loving service to the Lord and have no business with the other processes which are compared to the rivers that only gradually come to the ocean. Srila Rupa Gosvami prays to his spiritual master Srila Sanatana Gosvami for the protection of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, the ocean of the pure nectar of devotional service, from the argumentative logicians who unnecessarily meddle in the science of service to the Lord. He compares their arguments and logic to volcanic eruptions in the midst of the ocean."
Prabhupada: Yes. Na tams tarkena yojayet. Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet. Simply by arguments, logic, you cannot understand Krsna. That is the Vedic injunction. Tarko apratistho. You cannot establish the truth by simple logic and arguments. You may be very great logician, but somebody may come who is greater logician than you, and he defeats you. That is going on. Tarko apratistha srutayo vibhinnam. Now, if you read the Vedas, you'll find some contradiction. Not contradiction. But to the neophyte, it appears to be contradiction. Just like we have cited the example that animal stool is impure, but cow dung is pure. So by logic you can say that "Cow dung is also the stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" But in Vedas you'll find such things. Therefore by simple studying, without surrendering yourself to the spiritual master, you'll find all these contradictions and you'll be bewildered. Srutayo vibhinna. They are not vibhinna. But to our limited knowledge, sometimes they appear as vibhinnam, different. Srutayo vibhinnam nasau munir yasya matam na bhinnam. And you won't find a philosopher who does not agree, who does not disagree with our philosophers.
Therefore dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the footsteps of great acaryas. That is the way. These mahajanas are described in the sastra like Lord Brahma, Lord Siva, svayambhur naradah sambhuh kapilah kumaro manuh [SB 6.3.20]. They are all mentioned. So you follow any one of these great personalities, Brahma... Brahma is the greatest personality within this universe, and he has got his sampradaya which is known as Brahma-sampradaya. Similarly Lord Siva has also a sampradaya which is called Rudra-sampradaya. Similarly, Narada-Pancaratra, Kumara-sampradaya. So follow the sampradaya. Sampradaya vihina te mantras te viphalam matah. If you do not follow any bona fide sampradaya, then your path of spiritual advancement will be baffled. You will simply waste your time. Viphalam matah. So we should follow the footsteps of great acaryas. Then our progress is positive. There is no fear.
So to take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Just like Rupa Gosvami's described, describing herewith that he wants to take shelter of the ocean, deep into the ocean, and he doesn't care for the rivers. And the, what is called? Bharavagni (?)? There is some whirling pool in the water. That is compared with the arguments. Sometimes these logicians, they create argumental calamity in the process of devotional service. But Rupa Gosvami recommends that we should not be deviated by the arguments, karmis, jnanis and yogis. Let them do their own business. We do not care for them. We give them respect as far as possible, but we don't, don't accept the path of karma-jnana-yoga. Jnana-karmady-anavrtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Jnana-karmady-anavrtam. Anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. We should not be deviated by the process of karma-jnana-yoga. That is pure devotional service, suddha-bhakti. Suddha-bhakti. We should stay. We should fix up in suddha-bhakti path. That is the recommendation of Srila Rupa Gosvami. Go on.
Pradyumna: "In the midst of the ocean such volcanic eruptions can do very little harm. Similarly, those who are against devotional service to the Lord and who put forward many philosophical theses about the ultimate transcendental realization cannot disturb this great ocean of devotional service."
Prabhupada: Go on.
Pradyumna: "The author of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami, very humbly submits that he is just trying to spread Krsna consciousness all over the world, although he humbly thinks himself unfit for this work. That should be the attitude of all preachers of the Krsna consciousness movement, following in the footsteps of Srila Rupa Gosvami. We should never think of ourselves as great preachers, but should always consider that we are simply instrumental to the previous acaryas, and simply by following in their footsteps, we may be able to do something for the benefit of suffering humanity."
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like Narottama dasa Thakura says, tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa. Tandera carana-sevi. Our main business is..., (uproar in background, sounds like monkey attacked audience) (pause) Hut! Hut! (laughter, applause) So our main business is to serve the acaryas. This Krsna consciousness movement means why..., we are trying to serve the acaryas. Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His direct disciples, the Sad-gosvamis, and their disciples. Rupa-raghunatha-pade haibe akuti. That is required.
tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa
janame janame mora ei abhilasa
So this society is attempting to create a society of devotees all over the world, without any discrimination of caste, creed, color. One must be a devotee of Krsna. Yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. One must know the science of Krsna. Then he can preach to others. Sei guru haya. That is our purpose.
People may not misunderstand our propagation that we are proselytizing some persons to Hinduism. Yesterday one so-called jnani came to me, and he challenged me that "Swamiji, formerly the Christians used to convert the Hindus and the Muhammadans used to convert the Hindus into Muhammadanism or Christianism. Now you are converting the Christians into Hinduism. Then where is the difference between their activities and your activities?" So this fool does not know this is not making a person from Christian to Hindu. This is not the process. We are not interested. I never said in any meeting in the Western countries that "Hindu religion is better than your Christian religion. You give up your Christian religion and come to Hindu religion." No, that was not my propaganda. There are many old students here present. They may remember. I never made propaganda. Rather when they inquired one can attain perfection by following Christian principles, I said yes. So our propaganda is not to proselytize people from Christian to Hinduism. Our propaganda is to make everyone know this fact, that everyone is eternally servant of Krsna. That is our propaganda. Jivera svarupa haya nitya krsna dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is our propaganda. We are trying to convince people that "Your original position is servant of Krsna. You have now forgotten that. You revive your Krsna consciousness, and you'll become happy." That is our propaganda.
Do not misunderstand that we are trying to spread Hinduism. Hinduism is a fictitious term. Because there is no fixed-up conclusion. Somebody's accepting this, somebody... Even the Jains and the Sikhs and many other sub-religions, they are also ruled by the Hindu rules, Hindu law. So actually this word Hindu is given by the Muhammadans. We don't find this word in the Vedic literature, Hindu. It is later, I mean to say, prakrta. Or in Bhagavad-gita you won't find the word Hindu. Or in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Or any other Vedic literature. This is the convention of latest age. Actually, we, the followers or Vedic principles, our system is varnasrama-dharma, four varnas and four asramas. This is, this can be applicable. But varnasrama-dharma is applicable in any, in anywhere. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. The creation of God... Just like sun. Sun is creation of God. Sun is visible everywhere. Not that something American sun and something Indian sun. No. The sun is the same. Similarly, catur-varnyam, the four principles of division, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, and sudra, they are everywhere. It is not the monopoly of India.
Anywhere there are intelligent class of men, God conscious men, they are called brahmanas. Anywhere who are prepared for the right cause, administrator, ksatriyas. Anywhere who are interested in business, trade, agriculture, they are called vaisyas. And anywhere who are simply satisfied by serving others, he's called sudra. So our principle is not to proselytize from Christian to Hindu or Muhammadan to Hindu. We are teaching simply how to revive his own constitutional position to become servant of Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness movement. So it is applicable anywhere and everywhere. It is not that it is monopoly of India or for the Hindus. No. And actually it is being accepted, practically. In all countries. Even from all religious sect. In our Society there are boys and girls, they are coming from Christian group, Jews group, Muhammadan group, but when they come here, all of them become the servant of Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness movement.
Thank you very much. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => The Nectar of Devotion --
Vrndavana, October 27, 1972
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
