Chicago, July 9, 1975
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Prabhupada: ...that requires complete
overhauling. This religion, that religion will not help. They have no idea what
is spiritual knowledge. Everyone is hovering on the mental plane. [break] ...the
principle of Ba'hai religion?Jayatirtha: It was founded in Persia. It's a
hodge-podge principle. (Prabhupada laughs)
Jagadisa: They think that everyone is evolving, that after taking this human life, you have to go to heaven. That's the next stage, even if you're the most sinful of all sinners.
Prabhupada: Oh. Even one is sinful, he will also go?
Jagadisa: Yes. Because they say that God is all-merciful, therefore...
Prabhupada: You can do whatever you like.
Brahmananda: God becomes the order-supplier.
Jayatirtha: They have a big temple.
Prabhupada: This is Ba'hai temple?
Jagadisa: No, no, it's back the other way.
Jayatirtha: It's much bigger than this building?
Jagadisa: Yes, it's quite a..., very nice. [break] (walking:)
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] ...buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. So long one is in the bodily concept of life, he is animal. Will these people accept this? Hm?
Jayatirtha: They won't like to.
Prabhupada: Then?
Tamala Krsna: By our preaching we have to make them accept it.
Prabhupada: Yes. Actually that's a fact.
Sudama: We have to set an example for them to see.
Prabhupada: What is the example?
Sudama: That this Krsna consciousness, actually it does work, it does make us purified.
Prabhupada: "No. It works with you. It doesn't work with me," he will say. You have to prove that they are animals. How you will prove it?
Tamala Krsna: By showing the activities of the animals and their activities to be the same.
Prabhupada: Yes. They have to judge that "What is the difference between animal's activities and our so-called civilized man's activities?"
Sudama: When you compare them to the animals, then they become insulted.
Prabhupada: But he is animal. That is, if you call a thief a thief, he will feel insulted. But does it mean that I shall say that "You are very honest?" A thief shall be called thief. That is natural. If you call a Negro, "You black," he will be angry. But he is black. So... So that is another thing. When the activities are similar to the animal activities, then he is animal. Why a reasonable man will not accept that, hm? In that case also, he is animal. Because they say, "Man is rational animal." So if you are devoid of rationality then again you are animal. So how he will avoid, that he is not animal?
Satsvarupa: Many people today are willing to accept that. They say, "Yes, we're animals. We should enjoy our animal nature."
Prabhupada: Yes, so go on enjoying. Then don't talk of this "How, what to do, criminal?" Go on, animal. Then why you are anxious to avoid criminality? Hmm? The dogs, hogs, they are not anxious to avoid criminality. Why you are trying to avoid criminality? Remain animal. When the dog goes left to the right, it is not criminality, but why do you prosecute a man when he drives from the left to the right? You remain dog. "Why you charge me criminality? I am dog, sir." Tell him. (laughter) Go to the court and say, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me, I am dog." Why don't you say that? Do you say like that? When you are arrested and charged in the court, you can plead, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me." Why it is not excused? He is punished, why?
Satsvarupa: The human body means you have responsibility.
Prabhupada: Yes. And they say, "Whatever you do, it is all right." In the human body you cannot do like that. If in the ordinary court it is so strict, so what will be in the court of the God?
Sudama: Just like they have laws, so similarly, Krsna has.
Prabhupada: Well, laws come... Wherefrom the laws come? It comes from Krsna. Janmadyasya yatah. Everything, whatever you see, it has come from God. Otherwise where you get the idea? That is the definition in the Vedanta. Whatever you have experienced, that is coming from God, original idea from God. Janmadyasya yatah. In the Bhagavad-gita the same thing is said, aham sarvasya prabhavah [Bg. 10.8]. Whatever you see, you perceive, you experience, the original is from Krsna. (pause) So we shall go? [break] ...them directly that "You are animal." And let him go to the court and we shall prove that he is animal. [break] ...them he is in bodily concept of life, charge him that "You are animal. If you think it is defamation, let us go to the court." [break] ...these isms, nationalism, Communism, socialism, this ism, these are all animalism, nothing but animalism. [break] ...big fish within the water, they are also eating the small fish, and these persons are engaged, the same business.
Tamala Krsna: Like a big fish, bigger fish.
Prabhupada: Big fish is expert. He can go within the water and eat. He has to make some tackle. He is less than fish. (laughter)
Tamala Krsna: After catching, he eats it.
Prabhupada: No, the fish immediately. He has to cook, he has to..., another thing. That means it is not his food. Artificially, he is eating. [break] ...has taken this photograph?
Brahmananda: Yes, she did yesterday. [break]
Devotee (1): ...why do some of them carry these sticks.
Prabhupada: Sticks?
Tripurari: Danda.
Prabhupada: To drive away dogs. (laughter) [break]
Jayatirtha: The 400,000 different species of human life? There's one place in which you mention that different persons like carpenter or different tradesmen are different species. Is that...?
Prabhupada: No, no.
Jayatirtha: What's the...
Prabhupada: That is division. Varna, that is called varna.
Jayatirtha: So that has nothing to do with species. Species is like Negro or...
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
Jayatirtha: ...gods are also included in this human species.
Prabhupada: Different types of... Kinnara, 400,000.
Brahmananda: Also different planets?
Prabhupada: Yes. But everyone can become devotee. There is no harm. It is not that because one is in the lower species, he cannot become a devotee. Everyone can become a devotee. [break] ...yoni, they can also become perfect devotee. [break] This is the power of God. He can deliver anyone without any consideration. Therefore pandita is sama-darsinah, he does not make these divisions. He sees that "He is spirit soul. So let him be delivered." That's all. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. Materially there is division. He is black, he is white, he is this, he is that. This is material. Spiritually, there is no division. One. [break] They make, what is called, spiritual division also. That is their foolishness. Spiritually there is no division. Samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param [Bg. 18.54]. Samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param. Hare Krsna. Jaya. (end)
Jagadisa: They think that everyone is evolving, that after taking this human life, you have to go to heaven. That's the next stage, even if you're the most sinful of all sinners.
Prabhupada: Oh. Even one is sinful, he will also go?
Jagadisa: Yes. Because they say that God is all-merciful, therefore...
Prabhupada: You can do whatever you like.
Brahmananda: God becomes the order-supplier.
Jayatirtha: They have a big temple.
Prabhupada: This is Ba'hai temple?
Jagadisa: No, no, it's back the other way.
Jayatirtha: It's much bigger than this building?
Jagadisa: Yes, it's quite a..., very nice. [break] (walking:)
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] ...buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. So long one is in the bodily concept of life, he is animal. Will these people accept this? Hm?
Jayatirtha: They won't like to.
Prabhupada: Then?
Tamala Krsna: By our preaching we have to make them accept it.
Prabhupada: Yes. Actually that's a fact.
Sudama: We have to set an example for them to see.
Prabhupada: What is the example?
Sudama: That this Krsna consciousness, actually it does work, it does make us purified.
Prabhupada: "No. It works with you. It doesn't work with me," he will say. You have to prove that they are animals. How you will prove it?
Tamala Krsna: By showing the activities of the animals and their activities to be the same.
Prabhupada: Yes. They have to judge that "What is the difference between animal's activities and our so-called civilized man's activities?"
Sudama: When you compare them to the animals, then they become insulted.
Prabhupada: But he is animal. That is, if you call a thief a thief, he will feel insulted. But does it mean that I shall say that "You are very honest?" A thief shall be called thief. That is natural. If you call a Negro, "You black," he will be angry. But he is black. So... So that is another thing. When the activities are similar to the animal activities, then he is animal. Why a reasonable man will not accept that, hm? In that case also, he is animal. Because they say, "Man is rational animal." So if you are devoid of rationality then again you are animal. So how he will avoid, that he is not animal?
Satsvarupa: Many people today are willing to accept that. They say, "Yes, we're animals. We should enjoy our animal nature."
Prabhupada: Yes, so go on enjoying. Then don't talk of this "How, what to do, criminal?" Go on, animal. Then why you are anxious to avoid criminality? Hmm? The dogs, hogs, they are not anxious to avoid criminality. Why you are trying to avoid criminality? Remain animal. When the dog goes left to the right, it is not criminality, but why do you prosecute a man when he drives from the left to the right? You remain dog. "Why you charge me criminality? I am dog, sir." Tell him. (laughter) Go to the court and say, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me, I am dog." Why don't you say that? Do you say like that? When you are arrested and charged in the court, you can plead, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me." Why it is not excused? He is punished, why?
Satsvarupa: The human body means you have responsibility.
Prabhupada: Yes. And they say, "Whatever you do, it is all right." In the human body you cannot do like that. If in the ordinary court it is so strict, so what will be in the court of the God?
Sudama: Just like they have laws, so similarly, Krsna has.
Prabhupada: Well, laws come... Wherefrom the laws come? It comes from Krsna. Janmadyasya yatah. Everything, whatever you see, it has come from God. Otherwise where you get the idea? That is the definition in the Vedanta. Whatever you have experienced, that is coming from God, original idea from God. Janmadyasya yatah. In the Bhagavad-gita the same thing is said, aham sarvasya prabhavah [Bg. 10.8]. Whatever you see, you perceive, you experience, the original is from Krsna. (pause) So we shall go? [break] ...them directly that "You are animal." And let him go to the court and we shall prove that he is animal. [break] ...them he is in bodily concept of life, charge him that "You are animal. If you think it is defamation, let us go to the court." [break] ...these isms, nationalism, Communism, socialism, this ism, these are all animalism, nothing but animalism. [break] ...big fish within the water, they are also eating the small fish, and these persons are engaged, the same business.
Tamala Krsna: Like a big fish, bigger fish.
Prabhupada: Big fish is expert. He can go within the water and eat. He has to make some tackle. He is less than fish. (laughter)
Tamala Krsna: After catching, he eats it.
Prabhupada: No, the fish immediately. He has to cook, he has to..., another thing. That means it is not his food. Artificially, he is eating. [break] ...has taken this photograph?
Brahmananda: Yes, she did yesterday. [break]
Devotee (1): ...why do some of them carry these sticks.
Prabhupada: Sticks?
Tripurari: Danda.
Prabhupada: To drive away dogs. (laughter) [break]
Jayatirtha: The 400,000 different species of human life? There's one place in which you mention that different persons like carpenter or different tradesmen are different species. Is that...?
Prabhupada: No, no.
Jayatirtha: What's the...
Prabhupada: That is division. Varna, that is called varna.
Jayatirtha: So that has nothing to do with species. Species is like Negro or...
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
Jayatirtha: ...gods are also included in this human species.
Prabhupada: Different types of... Kinnara, 400,000.
Brahmananda: Also different planets?
Prabhupada: Yes. But everyone can become devotee. There is no harm. It is not that because one is in the lower species, he cannot become a devotee. Everyone can become a devotee. [break] ...yoni, they can also become perfect devotee. [break] This is the power of God. He can deliver anyone without any consideration. Therefore pandita is sama-darsinah, he does not make these divisions. He sees that "He is spirit soul. So let him be delivered." That's all. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. Materially there is division. He is black, he is white, he is this, he is that. This is material. Spiritually, there is no division. One. [break] They make, what is called, spiritual division also. That is their foolishness. Spiritually there is no division. Samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param [Bg. 18.54]. Samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param. Hare Krsna. Jaya. (end)
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Morning Walk -- July 9, 1975, Chicago
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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