Chicago, July 4, 1975
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Tamala Krsna: We've been reading in
the Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, that, there's a statement that when
Caitanya Mahaprabhu took prasadam at the house of Advaita Acarya, there's a
verse quoted from the Srimad-Bhagavatam that a sannyasi should not leave
anything, no... When he's taking his meals he should not leave anything on the
plate. But sometimes we have heard in the past that a sannyasi should leave
something on the plate.Prabhupada: No. Sometimes the guru leaves some
remnant to be taken by the disciple. That is meant for the disciple. Ordinarily
they should not. [break] ...from the other side of the lakes?
Brahmananda: It's Canada.
Prabhupada: Canada, oh.
Sri Govinda: Actually, I think it is Michigan. It is another state in the United States. Then to the north is Canada. [break]
Satsvarupa: One temple, St. Louis temple, has come to this festival, and they brought with them their installed Deities which are Gaura-Nitai. I wasn't sure that was right of them to do that. And They're now on the altar of the Chicago temple, but the Deities are not in the St. Louis temple. Gaura...
Prabhupada: That is closed?
Satsvarupa: They left one man there. Better to keep the temple open with the Deities there or can the...?
Prabhupada: No, no. When there is Deity, it must be taken care of.
Satsvarupa: They should not be transported to another temple?
Prabhupada: No, no harm.
Satsvarupa: May the temple be only one man left?
Prabhupada: Why, if there is no Deity, what is the use of keeping one man? [break] ...is meant for Deity, not for man. [break]
Visnujana: ...Damodara here for the festival. Is it all right for Them to go on Lord Jagannatha's altar while He is gone?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Visnujana: Is it all right to put the Deities on the altar in the temple, on Lord Jagannatha's altar while He's gone?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...private houses or...?
Bhavananda: Some of them are university and some are private. [break]
Prabhupada: ...the news we have got the "no objection" certificate.
Tamala Krsna: Really? For the temple or the...
Prabhupada: Bombay.
Tamala Krsna: That's for a skyscraper building or for the temple?
Prabhupada: Temple. The chief minister has sanctioned. He is very nice man.
Tamala Krsna: Nayika(?)?
Prabhupada: No, no, Nayika was a rogue.
Tamala Krsna: A new one.
Prabhupada: Yes, he is Chyavan?
Tamala Krsna: So now we can build two towers and a temple.
Prabhupada: Now bring money.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, what is the plan? To send money or books?
Prabhupada: No, money. [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...He says a devotee is never vanquished, Prabhupada. Just see. [break]
Prabhupada: ...we get so much description of the sky and planets, but they had no observatory. How it was possible? [break] ...they can see with the observatory? (laughs) [break]
Visnujana: ...see it themselves, Prabhupada. They don't want to just read it in books, they say.
Prabhupada: No, what they will see? That is my question. With these limited eyes?
Satsvarupa: But they say that even what they can't see, it's more of the same.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Satsvarupa: They've made some conclusion by their mathematics as to what they can see. Whatever they can't see, it's still more of the same, material sky and planets. There's nothing beyond it.
Prabhupada: Then seeing and not seeing, the same thing? That is, means you see or not see... Is that mean, that seeing or not seeing? This is contradictory. Either you see or you don't see. These are two things. (laughter) But what is this "I see, I don't see"?
Visnujana: For that, they spend millions of dollars on a telescope.
Prabhupada: And just see. That which is impossible, they are trying for that. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30], chewing the chewed, that's all. When your senses are imperfect, then what you will see? Whatever you see, that is imperfect. So what is the meaning of seeing? Therefore our seeing is sastra-caksusat: "We should see through the authorized scriptures." That is our... You will see in the description of Sukadeva Gosvami of the whole universe, conclusion, Sukadeva Gosvami, "So far I have described as I have heard." He never says, "As I have seen." This is required. [break] ...that we believe in the creation. And others also, just like Christians, they also believe God created. But who has seen God is creating? Who has seen? Simply hear from God. He says, "I have created." That's all. But if you challenge, "I have not seen that You have created; neither I have seen You," then how can you believe? God says, "I have created," so those who are God believers, they will accept that. So what is the use of seeing again, observatory? We trust in God, but don't trust in His word. This is going on. You write in America, "We trust in God," but don't trust in His word. (laughs) Just see. If God you trust, then whatever God says, you believe. "No, that we cannot do." This is the (indistinct). [break]
Visnujana: Krsna is so opulent, why did He appear in the form of Lord Caitanya in such a poor village atmosphere?
Prabhupada: That is His opulence. Here the material man, if he is rich man, he cannot become a poor man. That means he is lacking that opulence. [break] ...opulence. Anor aniyan mahato mahiyan. He can become the bigger than the biggest and the smaller than the smallest. That is opulence. You cannot manufacture a mosquito. You can manufacture a 747, but manufacture a mosquito, then we shall know your science. (laughter) ...the same machine. Otherwise how it is flying? [break] ...seen, so imperfect you are, that what are the machine there? And you are proud of seeing, nonsense. See the machine, where it is there, how the mosquito is flying.
Tamala Krsna: And one mosquito can produce many mosquitos.
Prabhupada: Yes. Everything is there complete.
Brahmananda: It doesn't crash either.
Prabhupada: No. (laughter) And still, these rascals, believing their eyes. What is the meaning of your eyes? You see, study mosquito. Not only mosquito, you will find at night I see a small insect, less than the magnitude of full stop. (Makes insect sound:) "Gu, gu, gu, gu." The same machine is there. Now see what is the machine there if you have such eyes. What is their answer? "In future." Just see. In future they will be able. Yes. [break]
Brahmananda: ...will say that nature has created such a...
Prabhupada: Then nature is greater than you. Then you are rascal. He knows, You have to accept, somebody is greater than you. He knows, you do not know. Learn from him.
Brahmananda: Well, they say that they can control nature.
Prabhupada: Again foolishness. That irritates me. When they speak like that, rascal, that irritates me. (laughter) Therefore I simply call them rascal. [break] Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-gunah. They are claiming very, very, big man, but as soon as we see that he is not a devotee of Krsna, we reject, "He is a foolish." [break] There is... That is a fact, one case was going on, and the judge was dozing, like that. So his clerk warned, "You are dozing. Big, big lawyers, they are talking." "So let these rascals go on talking. I have already concluded my..., (laughter) what judgment I shall give. Let them..." (laughs) So our is like that. We don't hear these rascals. Our judgment is already there. They are rascals. That's all. Let them talk whole day and night. The judge said to the clerk that "I have already made my judgment, so let these foolish men go on talking." [break] ...minister of Orissa, he has promised a land in Jagannatha Puri. So if we get that land, is it not possible to construct another Jagannatha temple? You'll earn the American money here.
Tamala Krsna: If they won't let us into that Jagannatha Puri, we have to make another one.
Prabhupada: Yes. Jagannatha will come to our temple. Yes. [break] ...selling prasadam, we shall distribute free. [break] ...comes, take prasadam. (end)
Brahmananda: It's Canada.
Prabhupada: Canada, oh.
Sri Govinda: Actually, I think it is Michigan. It is another state in the United States. Then to the north is Canada. [break]
Satsvarupa: One temple, St. Louis temple, has come to this festival, and they brought with them their installed Deities which are Gaura-Nitai. I wasn't sure that was right of them to do that. And They're now on the altar of the Chicago temple, but the Deities are not in the St. Louis temple. Gaura...
Prabhupada: That is closed?
Satsvarupa: They left one man there. Better to keep the temple open with the Deities there or can the...?
Prabhupada: No, no. When there is Deity, it must be taken care of.
Satsvarupa: They should not be transported to another temple?
Prabhupada: No, no harm.
Satsvarupa: May the temple be only one man left?
Prabhupada: Why, if there is no Deity, what is the use of keeping one man? [break] ...is meant for Deity, not for man. [break]
Visnujana: ...Damodara here for the festival. Is it all right for Them to go on Lord Jagannatha's altar while He is gone?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Visnujana: Is it all right to put the Deities on the altar in the temple, on Lord Jagannatha's altar while He's gone?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...private houses or...?
Bhavananda: Some of them are university and some are private. [break]
Prabhupada: ...the news we have got the "no objection" certificate.
Tamala Krsna: Really? For the temple or the...
Prabhupada: Bombay.
Tamala Krsna: That's for a skyscraper building or for the temple?
Prabhupada: Temple. The chief minister has sanctioned. He is very nice man.
Tamala Krsna: Nayika(?)?
Prabhupada: No, no, Nayika was a rogue.
Tamala Krsna: A new one.
Prabhupada: Yes, he is Chyavan?
Tamala Krsna: So now we can build two towers and a temple.
Prabhupada: Now bring money.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, what is the plan? To send money or books?
Prabhupada: No, money. [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...He says a devotee is never vanquished, Prabhupada. Just see. [break]
Prabhupada: ...we get so much description of the sky and planets, but they had no observatory. How it was possible? [break] ...they can see with the observatory? (laughs) [break]
Visnujana: ...see it themselves, Prabhupada. They don't want to just read it in books, they say.
Prabhupada: No, what they will see? That is my question. With these limited eyes?
Satsvarupa: But they say that even what they can't see, it's more of the same.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Satsvarupa: They've made some conclusion by their mathematics as to what they can see. Whatever they can't see, it's still more of the same, material sky and planets. There's nothing beyond it.
Prabhupada: Then seeing and not seeing, the same thing? That is, means you see or not see... Is that mean, that seeing or not seeing? This is contradictory. Either you see or you don't see. These are two things. (laughter) But what is this "I see, I don't see"?
Visnujana: For that, they spend millions of dollars on a telescope.
Prabhupada: And just see. That which is impossible, they are trying for that. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30], chewing the chewed, that's all. When your senses are imperfect, then what you will see? Whatever you see, that is imperfect. So what is the meaning of seeing? Therefore our seeing is sastra-caksusat: "We should see through the authorized scriptures." That is our... You will see in the description of Sukadeva Gosvami of the whole universe, conclusion, Sukadeva Gosvami, "So far I have described as I have heard." He never says, "As I have seen." This is required. [break] ...that we believe in the creation. And others also, just like Christians, they also believe God created. But who has seen God is creating? Who has seen? Simply hear from God. He says, "I have created." That's all. But if you challenge, "I have not seen that You have created; neither I have seen You," then how can you believe? God says, "I have created," so those who are God believers, they will accept that. So what is the use of seeing again, observatory? We trust in God, but don't trust in His word. This is going on. You write in America, "We trust in God," but don't trust in His word. (laughs) Just see. If God you trust, then whatever God says, you believe. "No, that we cannot do." This is the (indistinct). [break]
Visnujana: Krsna is so opulent, why did He appear in the form of Lord Caitanya in such a poor village atmosphere?
Prabhupada: That is His opulence. Here the material man, if he is rich man, he cannot become a poor man. That means he is lacking that opulence. [break] ...opulence. Anor aniyan mahato mahiyan. He can become the bigger than the biggest and the smaller than the smallest. That is opulence. You cannot manufacture a mosquito. You can manufacture a 747, but manufacture a mosquito, then we shall know your science. (laughter) ...the same machine. Otherwise how it is flying? [break] ...seen, so imperfect you are, that what are the machine there? And you are proud of seeing, nonsense. See the machine, where it is there, how the mosquito is flying.
Tamala Krsna: And one mosquito can produce many mosquitos.
Prabhupada: Yes. Everything is there complete.
Brahmananda: It doesn't crash either.
Prabhupada: No. (laughter) And still, these rascals, believing their eyes. What is the meaning of your eyes? You see, study mosquito. Not only mosquito, you will find at night I see a small insect, less than the magnitude of full stop. (Makes insect sound:) "Gu, gu, gu, gu." The same machine is there. Now see what is the machine there if you have such eyes. What is their answer? "In future." Just see. In future they will be able. Yes. [break]
Brahmananda: ...will say that nature has created such a...
Prabhupada: Then nature is greater than you. Then you are rascal. He knows, You have to accept, somebody is greater than you. He knows, you do not know. Learn from him.
Brahmananda: Well, they say that they can control nature.
Prabhupada: Again foolishness. That irritates me. When they speak like that, rascal, that irritates me. (laughter) Therefore I simply call them rascal. [break] Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-gunah. They are claiming very, very, big man, but as soon as we see that he is not a devotee of Krsna, we reject, "He is a foolish." [break] There is... That is a fact, one case was going on, and the judge was dozing, like that. So his clerk warned, "You are dozing. Big, big lawyers, they are talking." "So let these rascals go on talking. I have already concluded my..., (laughter) what judgment I shall give. Let them..." (laughs) So our is like that. We don't hear these rascals. Our judgment is already there. They are rascals. That's all. Let them talk whole day and night. The judge said to the clerk that "I have already made my judgment, so let these foolish men go on talking." [break] ...minister of Orissa, he has promised a land in Jagannatha Puri. So if we get that land, is it not possible to construct another Jagannatha temple? You'll earn the American money here.
Tamala Krsna: If they won't let us into that Jagannatha Puri, we have to make another one.
Prabhupada: Yes. Jagannatha will come to our temple. Yes. [break] ...selling prasadam, we shall distribute free. [break] ...comes, take prasadam. (end)
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Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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