Denver, July 1, 1975
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Prabhupada: It is Krsna's book, we
are all servants, engaged. [break] (laughing) Here your parents accusing me, and
in India the caste brahmanas accusing me. My standing... I do not know what is
my standing. Your parents are accusing me, "This rascal, converting our sons to
become mendicant without any material enjoyment." And there, "This rascal is
giving sacred thread to the mlecchas and yavanas." (Still
laughing)Visnujana: Is that why you keep traveling, Prabhupada, so they
won't catch you?
Prabhupada: Narada Muni was accused by Prajapati Daksa that "You are traveling in the dress of a sadhu, but you are the most sinful man. You have turned my sons in the renounced order of life to become beggar, without any advancement, without any enjoyment." So that accusation is always there, beginning from Narada Muni down to us. Some parents came to demonstrate?
Brahmananda: In Los Angeles, yes. I understand they've demonstrated before, someone was saying? They had placards, and they were marching.
Bhavananda: In Laguna Beach they also.
Prabhupada: Therefore Dr. Judah has said...
Brahmananda: He has dedicated his book, "To the parents and to the devotees."
Prabhupada: He has tried to pacify the parents.
Brahmananda: Yes. Another parent is coming to see you today.
Prabhupada: Oh, to accuse me? (laughter)
Brahmananda: No, her son said she is very favorable. She's the mother of Pariksit.
Prabhupada: Your mother was very angry upon us. (laughter) You know that? When she came to see me, I told, "Mrs. Bruce, can you give me some money?" (laughing) (Imitating angry woman's voice:) "I have given you two sons!" (laughter) She was very angry. "Still you want money?" (laughter) "And that's all right."
Tamala Krsna: You asked them to bow down to her?
Prabhupada: No, I asked him to bow down to your mother.
Brahmananda: Yes, at initiation.
Prabhupada: After initiation.
Tamala Krsna: Did she like...
Prabhupada: I gave her proper respect. Mother, after all, she is. She is fortunate mother. She has produced such nice sons. And I offered her respect, yes. Any of your mother and father, they are all very fortunate. And you are doing... giving the best service to your family. Our Nitai's mother came. She looked very nice lady, yes. I think you are the first child.
Nitai: Yes.
Prabhupada: Therefore she looks young, not very old. Within forty?
Nitai: Over forty, I think. Within fifty.
Prabhupada: Oh. But she looks younger. And your grandmother?
Nitai: She is eighty.
Prabhupada: Oh. [break] ...Daksa accused Narada that "My sons were not out of the three kinds of debts." One debt is debtor to the saintly sages. Just like we are reading Srimad-Bhagavatam, we are indebted to Vyasadeva. He has given such literature, and we are taking advantage of it. As such, especially the brahmanas, they have got indebtedness to big sages and saintly person. They receive knowledge from them. And they are indebtor to the demigods. Therefore they have to perform yajnas. And they are indebtor to their father because the father has brought them to this world. So in this way, especially a brahmana is indebted to demigods, the past sages, and the father. So the indebtedness to the sages is performed by becoming brahmacari, and to the demigods by offering sacrifices, and to the father by begetting children, to continue the progeny. So Narada Muni was accused that "You keep them indebted to these principles, so how they can be liberated? Simply by dressing like you, (laughs) a mendicant?" Accusing. But perhaps he did not know. There is another version in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,
devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam pitrnam
nayam rni na ca kinkaro rajan
sarvatmana yah saranam saranyam
gato mukunda parihrtya...
[SB 11.5.41]
Anyone who has fully surrendered to Krsna, he is no more debtor to anyone. And Krsna says that "You surrender to Me, and I shall keep you protected from all kinds of..." Because if you don't repay your debts, then you become sinful. But Krsna says, "I shall protect for all kinds of sin." So if anyone has surrendered to Krsna, he is no more debtor to anyone. He is immune from all obligation. His only obligation is to Krsna. [break] ...has eaten up this?
Brahmananda: This tree? [break]
Tamala Krsna: Sometimes when we're reading Bhagavatam about the prajapatis... They are such exalted persons.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. They are no ordinary person.
Tamala Krsna: Yet sometimes they behave in such a way that is...
Prabhupada: That is... After all, they are living entity, conditioned. They are also conditioned. They are not liberated.
Tamala Krsna: They're not pure devotees.
Prabhupada: No. They want enjoyment, material.
Tamala Krsna: Still, they're entrusted with very big posts.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: But Lord Brahma, he's a prajapati.
Prabhupada: He is the chief prajapati.
Satsvarupa: Isn't he a pure devotee?
Prabhupada: No.
Satsvarupa: And yet he composed the Brahma-samhita.
Prabhupada: Yes, he is devotee, not to the topmost extent.
Tamala Krsna: Sometimes we hear that Lord Brahma incarnated as Thakura Haridasa.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: Sometimes devotees say, "Then how come he's the head of our sampradaya if he's not a pure devotee?"
Prabhupada: It doesn't require. He is a devotee. That's all right. There are grades of devotee, but on the whole, a devotee is very exalted person. Just like gopis. Nobody can be compared with the gopis. There are so many grades of devotees, but they are ultimate. And amongst the gopis, Radharani. So there is no comparison, no more... Even Krsna is defeated there. Krsna became Caitanya Mahaprabhu to understand the devotion of Radharani. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. [break] (About something by the path:) ...queen. Elizabeth? No. Queen or king?
Tamala Krsna: Is there a plaque there?
Brahmananda: It's a symbol for something.
Harikesa: They usually make justice to be like that. [break]
Satsvarupa: Allegorical.
Prabhupada: Allegorical?
Satsvarupa: It's not a historial person. One lady represents learning, another... They represent different things.
Tamala Krsna: All, women. [break]
Prabhupada: ...imperson.
Brahmananda: Cupid is there, and it is marked "love."
Prabhupada: Oh. [break] (To Harikesa, who has been coughing throughout:) ...not taking any medicine?
Harikesa: No.
Prabhupada: This continuing is not good.
Harikesa: I stopped eating anything but fruit, and that's what I did. [break]
Prabhupada: ...examined your chest?
Harikesa: No.
Prabhupada: Oh, you should examine your chest. Some congestion in the lungs. [break]
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, around our society now there are many devotees who are following different kinds of diets. They read some book and they get some idea. They follow...
Prabhupada: This is not good.
Tamala Krsna: And one of the things I see about the unique feature of all the diets that they have in common is that the devotees more or less stop taking the prasadam which is offered to the Deity.
Prabhupada: This is not good. [break]
Tamala Krsna: It seems to me that one of the important aspects of bhakti-yoga is to depend upon Krsna for one's maintenance.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: So whatever is offered to the Deity, one should accept.
Prabhupada: The prasadam is not suitable?
Tamala Krsna: Well it is standard prasadam. Capatis, rice, dahl, subji, fruits.
Prabhupada: So why they do not like?
Tamala Krsna: Well, they are reading these books...
Prabhupada: And becoming influenced.
Tamala Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is nonsense. This should be stopped.
Sudama: A lot of devotees, they take these fasting for twenty days, thirty days, fasting.
Prabhupada: That means they are manufacturing their own way of life. That's not good.
Tamala Krsna: One of our best devotees, Srila Prabhupada, he recently left our association. And one of the... I know the biggest reason is that he was fasting completely from almost all foods for thirty days.
Prabhupada: But fasting is good. If one can fast, that is good. That is tapasya.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. But see, they read these books in addition.
Prabhupada: Fasting is not bad. If one can fast, that is very good.
Tamala Krsna: Total fast, you mean?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yadubara: I remember in Los Angeles...
Prabhupada: That is great austerity.
Yadubara: Srila Prabhupada, you said that we should not fast more than one day.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I wanted to point out to you that the results...
Prabhupada: No, artificial... Just like Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, he was fasting, but he was not weak. That fasting. And he who will fast artificially and become weak, "I cannot work," that is not required. That is called markata-vairagya. If you fast and at the same time you do not become weak, then that is recommended. And after fasting you cannot do a flat, fall flat, then what is the use of fasting? Raghunatha dasa Gosvami was fasting, but he was taking thrice bathing and offering obeisances hundred times. His regular activities was not stopped. And he was taking every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all.
Tamala Krsna: So we cannot imitate his position.
Prabhupada: That is not possible. We have to work.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. One of the important things about taking prasadam is that all the devotees sit together. It is actually a very spiritual activity. Just like in Caitanya-caritamrta, the feasts...
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. That is recommended, that we are following. But now it is not following?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I have to say frankly, I have seen now that in many... I don't want to get into mentioning any names, but some devotees are preaching this.
Prabhupada: Preaching? Who is that nonsense, preaching.
Tamala Krsna: Well, Revatinandana Maharaja.
Prabhupada: He is a rascal.
Tamala Krsna: He is preaching like this.
Prabhupada: He is a rascal. He is becoming rascal, day by day. Stop him doing these things.
Tamala Krsna: And he's influencing other people. The whole temple in Laguna Beach, they were doing this.
Prabhupada: Then, what can I do? You are all GBCs.
Tamala Krsna: Now that we know, we'll take action.
Prabhupada: Yes. Revatinandana is becoming less and less spiritually. He had good potency, but he is losing that.
Devotee (1): You said that if we fast and we can't do our work and we become weak, than this is not so good.
Prabhupada: This is not good, "not so" not, absolutely bad.
Devotee (1): So, our devotional service comes first?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (1): So if there is, let us say there is grain and rice being offered to the Deities, and one finds that if he eats this, his service is impaired. Like so many times I've seen, practically myself if I overeat grains in the summertime, I drive around doing my service and I'm falling asleep.
Prabhupada: Then which foodstuff suits you?
Devotee (1): Fruits are more... they keep me more active.
Prabhupada: So you take fruit. Fruit is also offered to the Deity. There are varieties of prasadam. So whichever suits, you can take. Anything artificial is bad.
Yadubara: Srila Prabhupada, in Los Angeles they are charging money for the prasadam, and we find that it's cheaper to buy our own prasadam and offer it ourself.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Yadubara: They are charging money in Los Angeles for the prasadam each meal, so we find it is cheaper to...
Prabhupada: Prepare your own?
Yadubara: Yes.
Prabhupada: So you do that.
Harikesa: Yes. They will not let a householder take unless they pay money first.
Yadubara: 75c for noon prasadam and 50c for breakfast.
Prabhupada: So if you can prepare cheaper, you can do that.
Yadubara: All right. [break]
Brahmananda: It's a type of cannon. [break]
Yadubara: You mentioned before that it is better that we not do so much cooking. If everyone is separately cooking, then that is such a time-consuming thing for everyone.
Prabhupada: But you said that "If we cook, it is cheaper." Then? If it is cheaper, convenient, then you cook. I said that "You save time. Don't cook."
Tamala Krsna: The cheapest thing is to cook one thing for... cook for everyone. That is the cheapest and quickest.
Bhavananda: During Mayapur festival, Srila Prabhupada, nicest thing was when we all sat down together and took prasadam.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhavananda: Five hundred devotees, it was nice, spiritual activity. And everyone took what was given.
Prabhupada: So what is the difficulty? I do not find. [break]
Bhavananda: ...the tongue, I think, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: Capati, rice is innocent food. What is the difficulty?
Bhavananda: It's nice.
Prabhupada: Over and above, there is fruit.
Harikesa: A lot of devotees are quoting you that... they say that there is no need to eat grains, that you said grains were for the animals.
Prabhupada: I am...
Tamala Krsna: But Prabhupada is eating grains. (laughter)
Harikesa: I tell them that.
Prabhupada: Rascal, they say, "Prabhupada says." And you believe that. [break]
Bhavananda: ...I think the people are spoiled. If they go to India, they see that here they're turning down rice; there the people are dying for lack of rice.
Prabhupada: Where?
Bhavananda: In India. And here they're saying, "Oh, I don't want this and don't want that. I don't want this grain, that grain." But in India people are dying for want of food. Here they're so spoiled. [break]
Prabhupada: ...Krsna's position. If He does not supply grains, then He is accused. And He supplies grains, then He is accused. (laughter)
Bhavananda: Everyone is accused. [break]
Satsvarupa: ...those scientists came to you, Srila Prabhupada, and even said milk was no good.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yadubara: That is what they say in these books on health, these health books. They say that cow milk is no good.
Prabhupada: Accha?
Harikesa: But meat is all right.
Yadubara: No, some of them, most of them don't say that. It's very contaminating to read those and to follow.
Prabhupada: Therefore follow taking prasadam. Let whatever may happen.
Tamala Krsna: That's the best thing. Let us die eating prasadam.
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughter) That is devotee.
Sudama: Because in the beginning, Srila Prabhupada, you encouraged us, all of us, to take much prasadam, to our full satisfaction.
Prabhupada: Yes. I say still.
Sudama: You said that that is one of our greatest weapons against maya, is Krsna-prasada. [break]
Yadubara: I'm a good example that these diets are not very good. (laughter) I can testify.
Brahmananda: Me too.
Prabhupada: The diets are not good or you are not good?
Yadubara: Oh. [break] ...for one year to alter the diet in so many ways and it never worked. It was useless. [break]
Devotee (2): I think that's for maintaining the right depth to the lake. I think they have a pump house down here, and they maintain the depth of the lake by these things.
Prabhupada: Water is supplied or...?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Devotee (1): Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (1): In Denver here we have many businesses going on for you. And we are out engaging karmis in helping us retrieve laksmi. We are going to them for laksmi in so many ways. How is it that this engages them, or does it engage them in Krsna's service? Do they make any benefit?
Prabhupada: What they are doing by doing business? They are grhasthas doing business?
Brahmananda: They are outsiders, karmis, they manufacture jewelry and some shirts, for which they get a salary.
Devotee (1): Yes, but the devotees are maintaining the business. And I myself go out and talk to rascals all day long, demons, mlecchas. Am I engaging them in Krsna's service by taking laksmi?
Prabhupada: What you are doing with the money?
Devotee (1): I'm giving it to the temple president so that we can buy a farm for you.
Prabhupada: No, if you are engaging the money for Krsna, then it is all right.
Brahmananda: He's asking about is there any benefit to the karmis that he deals with because he engages in business activity with them? Do the karmis get benefit?
Prabhupada: Yes. To some extent they are helping Krsna consciousness movement.
Yadubara: They also have this program in Pittsburg, the same thing. They come to the temple and manufacture jewelry.
Prabhupada: Svakarmana tam abhyarcya. It is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita. You can see there. Everyone can work, but the result of the work should go to Krsna. [break]
Devotee (1): ...laksmi from them so we can engage them more in Krsna's service.
Prabhupada: Provided you engage them for Krsna's service. Otherwise the laksmi will kill you. Just like Sita, Sita is Laksmi. When Sita was taken by Ravana, the result was the whole family was killed because they did not use Sita for Rama's service. [break] ...householders can be engaged, not anyone else.
Tamala Krsna: So my question is: Supposing half of those men that are in our movement are householders. Would it not be more beneficial that everyone engages in preaching work, or is that impractical?
Prabhupada: Preaching is for the sannyasis, for the brahmacari. And householder, because they are brahmanas, they can be engaged in Deity worship and also earning money.
Tamala Krsna: Business.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: So it's not more practical to earn money by preaching?
Prabhupada: If preaching, by preaching we can get money, why should we go to the karmis?
Tamala Krsna: Because you wrote me in a letter that so far as you are concerned, you think that your books are enough to maintain the society.
Prabhupada: I think so. But if they think that by doing some other business, they will get more money, then what can I say? This is very good business. Yes. We are preaching, at the same time getting money.
Devotee (2): We have found in our experience that some kinds of men do better in doing business. They feel more satisfied in collecting money in that way for Krsna.
Prabhupada: That's all right. But that money should be used for Krsna.
Devotee (2): Yes. Different kinds of men have to be engaged in different ways. Otherwise they become dissatisfied.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore Krsna says, svakarmana. Anyone, he likes to do something, that is his karma. But by that karma, he can serve Krsna. Svakarmana tam abhyarcya samsiddhim labhate navah. Samsiddhi means perfection. [break]
Devotee (1): ...in our preaching work we will be able to maintain our temples, and with our business activities, we will be able to expand and buy all these farms, do so many things.
Prabhupada: Yes. If it is favorable, do it, business.(?) Therefore we have made program: 50% must come to Krsna, at least. Jaya. Hare Krsna. [break] (In car:)
Tamala Krsna: ...because that many people are involved.
Prabhupada: Dieting, the best thing is to take prasadam.
Tamala Krsna: Definitely. It's clear cut. My only feeling about...
Prabhupada: And if our... Pushed on our men... The thing is they supply more spices, and especially that mustard. This is not good. This is prohibited.
Tamala Krsna: It should be mild, prasadam.
Prabhupada: Practically no spices. Simply little cumin. And this turmeric. Turmeric you get from India, whole turmeric. This powdered turmeric is very, very bad.
Tamala Krsna: Unhealthy.
Harikesa: They put sawdust in it.
Prabhupada: That's all.
Tamala Krsna: It's very unhealthy.
Prabhupada: It is very cheating. Any powdered spice is not good.
Harikesa: Asafoetida also.
Prabhupada: Everything. As soon as it is powder, they will mix with all rubbish things. And it is very easy to cheat you. You are susceptible for being cheated. So they take advantage and cheat you. So best thing is to import spices from India whole and either get it powdered or during time of cooking you make them paste. That is first class.
Tamala Krsna: Crushing.
Prabhupada: You just put the spices water, soaked in water for some time, and then in mortar and pestle you...
Dhananjaya: Smash it.
Prabhupada: That is very nice. And immediately you fresh prepare and put into the vegetable. It will be tasteful, and it will be beneficial. All spices are beneficial.
Tamala Krsna: And much cheaper.
Prabhupada: Cheaper, of course, there is no question to you what is cheaper. For you everything is "damn cheap."
Harikesa: The Radha-Damodara party has very good prasadam program. This halava they make every morning -- everyone is fully satisfied.
Prabhupada: They are sane men.
Tamala Krsna: Every morning we have...
Prabhupada: So why do they not follow your principle?
Tamala Krsna: Ah, it's very... And the devotees love it. Every day, Prabhupada, we...
Prabhupada: No, every temple give them example, invite them in your prasadam.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. That's what I'm going to do today.
Harikesa: I noticed the devotees would wait for prasadam with great...
Prabhupada: Yes, that is nice. It requires good leader, that's all. [break] ...Krsna we must prepare very first-class foodstuff, and where is the complaint if it is first class?
Tamala Krsna: It's all a concoction. Certain devotees have concocted. They have taken advice from other masters, food masters, what to eat, what not to eat, all concoction. It's clearly written in Bhagavad-gita, those foods which are sattvic-juicy, fatty. Everything is mentioned there.
Prabhupada: Yes. Guide them. [break] ...here the main business is slaughterhouse.
Brahmananda: In this state.
Tamala Krsna: Cow country, it's called. They call it that. On the highway you see that, "Cow country."
Prabhupada: Chicago is also this...
Tamala Krsna: Oh, very bad. That is very bad.
Brahmananda: There's one area of the town that there's a bad odor.
Prabhupada: Here also they say. Just like in Bombay, the Bandra(?).
Harikesa: Ah, terrible.
Tamala Krsna: What's Visnujana doing? [break] ...Deity, I've never seen it. He gets up early in the morning, wakes Him up, cooks for Him, then we offer arati, then bathing and dressing the Deity, sings for Him all day. He's so devoted to Radha-Damodara.
Prabhupada: Svarupa-siddhi, arcana-siddhi. By simply worshiping Deity one can become perfect. Arcana-siddhi.
Tamala Krsna: That's a great advantage of our bus. Now we just traveled for two days in a row from San Francisco, but we did not miss one arati, we had six aratis, full prasadam. We took bath on the bus in our shower room. We had regular classes, kirtana all day. It was undisturbed.
Prabhupada: So why not one week with them? I am prepared. (end)
Prabhupada: Narada Muni was accused by Prajapati Daksa that "You are traveling in the dress of a sadhu, but you are the most sinful man. You have turned my sons in the renounced order of life to become beggar, without any advancement, without any enjoyment." So that accusation is always there, beginning from Narada Muni down to us. Some parents came to demonstrate?
Brahmananda: In Los Angeles, yes. I understand they've demonstrated before, someone was saying? They had placards, and they were marching.
Bhavananda: In Laguna Beach they also.
Prabhupada: Therefore Dr. Judah has said...
Brahmananda: He has dedicated his book, "To the parents and to the devotees."
Prabhupada: He has tried to pacify the parents.
Brahmananda: Yes. Another parent is coming to see you today.
Prabhupada: Oh, to accuse me? (laughter)
Brahmananda: No, her son said she is very favorable. She's the mother of Pariksit.
Prabhupada: Your mother was very angry upon us. (laughter) You know that? When she came to see me, I told, "Mrs. Bruce, can you give me some money?" (laughing) (Imitating angry woman's voice:) "I have given you two sons!" (laughter) She was very angry. "Still you want money?" (laughter) "And that's all right."
Tamala Krsna: You asked them to bow down to her?
Prabhupada: No, I asked him to bow down to your mother.
Brahmananda: Yes, at initiation.
Prabhupada: After initiation.
Tamala Krsna: Did she like...
Prabhupada: I gave her proper respect. Mother, after all, she is. She is fortunate mother. She has produced such nice sons. And I offered her respect, yes. Any of your mother and father, they are all very fortunate. And you are doing... giving the best service to your family. Our Nitai's mother came. She looked very nice lady, yes. I think you are the first child.
Nitai: Yes.
Prabhupada: Therefore she looks young, not very old. Within forty?
Nitai: Over forty, I think. Within fifty.
Prabhupada: Oh. But she looks younger. And your grandmother?
Nitai: She is eighty.
Prabhupada: Oh. [break] ...Daksa accused Narada that "My sons were not out of the three kinds of debts." One debt is debtor to the saintly sages. Just like we are reading Srimad-Bhagavatam, we are indebted to Vyasadeva. He has given such literature, and we are taking advantage of it. As such, especially the brahmanas, they have got indebtedness to big sages and saintly person. They receive knowledge from them. And they are indebtor to the demigods. Therefore they have to perform yajnas. And they are indebtor to their father because the father has brought them to this world. So in this way, especially a brahmana is indebted to demigods, the past sages, and the father. So the indebtedness to the sages is performed by becoming brahmacari, and to the demigods by offering sacrifices, and to the father by begetting children, to continue the progeny. So Narada Muni was accused that "You keep them indebted to these principles, so how they can be liberated? Simply by dressing like you, (laughs) a mendicant?" Accusing. But perhaps he did not know. There is another version in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,
devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam pitrnam
nayam rni na ca kinkaro rajan
sarvatmana yah saranam saranyam
gato mukunda parihrtya...
[SB 11.5.41]
Anyone who has fully surrendered to Krsna, he is no more debtor to anyone. And Krsna says that "You surrender to Me, and I shall keep you protected from all kinds of..." Because if you don't repay your debts, then you become sinful. But Krsna says, "I shall protect for all kinds of sin." So if anyone has surrendered to Krsna, he is no more debtor to anyone. He is immune from all obligation. His only obligation is to Krsna. [break] ...has eaten up this?
Brahmananda: This tree? [break]
Tamala Krsna: Sometimes when we're reading Bhagavatam about the prajapatis... They are such exalted persons.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. They are no ordinary person.
Tamala Krsna: Yet sometimes they behave in such a way that is...
Prabhupada: That is... After all, they are living entity, conditioned. They are also conditioned. They are not liberated.
Tamala Krsna: They're not pure devotees.
Prabhupada: No. They want enjoyment, material.
Tamala Krsna: Still, they're entrusted with very big posts.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: But Lord Brahma, he's a prajapati.
Prabhupada: He is the chief prajapati.
Satsvarupa: Isn't he a pure devotee?
Prabhupada: No.
Satsvarupa: And yet he composed the Brahma-samhita.
Prabhupada: Yes, he is devotee, not to the topmost extent.
Tamala Krsna: Sometimes we hear that Lord Brahma incarnated as Thakura Haridasa.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: Sometimes devotees say, "Then how come he's the head of our sampradaya if he's not a pure devotee?"
Prabhupada: It doesn't require. He is a devotee. That's all right. There are grades of devotee, but on the whole, a devotee is very exalted person. Just like gopis. Nobody can be compared with the gopis. There are so many grades of devotees, but they are ultimate. And amongst the gopis, Radharani. So there is no comparison, no more... Even Krsna is defeated there. Krsna became Caitanya Mahaprabhu to understand the devotion of Radharani. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. [break] (About something by the path:) ...queen. Elizabeth? No. Queen or king?
Tamala Krsna: Is there a plaque there?
Brahmananda: It's a symbol for something.
Harikesa: They usually make justice to be like that. [break]
Satsvarupa: Allegorical.
Prabhupada: Allegorical?
Satsvarupa: It's not a historial person. One lady represents learning, another... They represent different things.
Tamala Krsna: All, women. [break]
Prabhupada: ...imperson.
Brahmananda: Cupid is there, and it is marked "love."
Prabhupada: Oh. [break] (To Harikesa, who has been coughing throughout:) ...not taking any medicine?
Harikesa: No.
Prabhupada: This continuing is not good.
Harikesa: I stopped eating anything but fruit, and that's what I did. [break]
Prabhupada: ...examined your chest?
Harikesa: No.
Prabhupada: Oh, you should examine your chest. Some congestion in the lungs. [break]
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, around our society now there are many devotees who are following different kinds of diets. They read some book and they get some idea. They follow...
Prabhupada: This is not good.
Tamala Krsna: And one of the things I see about the unique feature of all the diets that they have in common is that the devotees more or less stop taking the prasadam which is offered to the Deity.
Prabhupada: This is not good. [break]
Tamala Krsna: It seems to me that one of the important aspects of bhakti-yoga is to depend upon Krsna for one's maintenance.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: So whatever is offered to the Deity, one should accept.
Prabhupada: The prasadam is not suitable?
Tamala Krsna: Well it is standard prasadam. Capatis, rice, dahl, subji, fruits.
Prabhupada: So why they do not like?
Tamala Krsna: Well, they are reading these books...
Prabhupada: And becoming influenced.
Tamala Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is nonsense. This should be stopped.
Sudama: A lot of devotees, they take these fasting for twenty days, thirty days, fasting.
Prabhupada: That means they are manufacturing their own way of life. That's not good.
Tamala Krsna: One of our best devotees, Srila Prabhupada, he recently left our association. And one of the... I know the biggest reason is that he was fasting completely from almost all foods for thirty days.
Prabhupada: But fasting is good. If one can fast, that is good. That is tapasya.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. But see, they read these books in addition.
Prabhupada: Fasting is not bad. If one can fast, that is very good.
Tamala Krsna: Total fast, you mean?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yadubara: I remember in Los Angeles...
Prabhupada: That is great austerity.
Yadubara: Srila Prabhupada, you said that we should not fast more than one day.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I wanted to point out to you that the results...
Prabhupada: No, artificial... Just like Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, he was fasting, but he was not weak. That fasting. And he who will fast artificially and become weak, "I cannot work," that is not required. That is called markata-vairagya. If you fast and at the same time you do not become weak, then that is recommended. And after fasting you cannot do a flat, fall flat, then what is the use of fasting? Raghunatha dasa Gosvami was fasting, but he was taking thrice bathing and offering obeisances hundred times. His regular activities was not stopped. And he was taking every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all.
Tamala Krsna: So we cannot imitate his position.
Prabhupada: That is not possible. We have to work.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. One of the important things about taking prasadam is that all the devotees sit together. It is actually a very spiritual activity. Just like in Caitanya-caritamrta, the feasts...
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. That is recommended, that we are following. But now it is not following?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I have to say frankly, I have seen now that in many... I don't want to get into mentioning any names, but some devotees are preaching this.
Prabhupada: Preaching? Who is that nonsense, preaching.
Tamala Krsna: Well, Revatinandana Maharaja.
Prabhupada: He is a rascal.
Tamala Krsna: He is preaching like this.
Prabhupada: He is a rascal. He is becoming rascal, day by day. Stop him doing these things.
Tamala Krsna: And he's influencing other people. The whole temple in Laguna Beach, they were doing this.
Prabhupada: Then, what can I do? You are all GBCs.
Tamala Krsna: Now that we know, we'll take action.
Prabhupada: Yes. Revatinandana is becoming less and less spiritually. He had good potency, but he is losing that.
Devotee (1): You said that if we fast and we can't do our work and we become weak, than this is not so good.
Prabhupada: This is not good, "not so" not, absolutely bad.
Devotee (1): So, our devotional service comes first?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (1): So if there is, let us say there is grain and rice being offered to the Deities, and one finds that if he eats this, his service is impaired. Like so many times I've seen, practically myself if I overeat grains in the summertime, I drive around doing my service and I'm falling asleep.
Prabhupada: Then which foodstuff suits you?
Devotee (1): Fruits are more... they keep me more active.
Prabhupada: So you take fruit. Fruit is also offered to the Deity. There are varieties of prasadam. So whichever suits, you can take. Anything artificial is bad.
Yadubara: Srila Prabhupada, in Los Angeles they are charging money for the prasadam, and we find that it's cheaper to buy our own prasadam and offer it ourself.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Yadubara: They are charging money in Los Angeles for the prasadam each meal, so we find it is cheaper to...
Prabhupada: Prepare your own?
Yadubara: Yes.
Prabhupada: So you do that.
Harikesa: Yes. They will not let a householder take unless they pay money first.
Yadubara: 75c for noon prasadam and 50c for breakfast.
Prabhupada: So if you can prepare cheaper, you can do that.
Yadubara: All right. [break]
Brahmananda: It's a type of cannon. [break]
Yadubara: You mentioned before that it is better that we not do so much cooking. If everyone is separately cooking, then that is such a time-consuming thing for everyone.
Prabhupada: But you said that "If we cook, it is cheaper." Then? If it is cheaper, convenient, then you cook. I said that "You save time. Don't cook."
Tamala Krsna: The cheapest thing is to cook one thing for... cook for everyone. That is the cheapest and quickest.
Bhavananda: During Mayapur festival, Srila Prabhupada, nicest thing was when we all sat down together and took prasadam.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhavananda: Five hundred devotees, it was nice, spiritual activity. And everyone took what was given.
Prabhupada: So what is the difficulty? I do not find. [break]
Bhavananda: ...the tongue, I think, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: Capati, rice is innocent food. What is the difficulty?
Bhavananda: It's nice.
Prabhupada: Over and above, there is fruit.
Harikesa: A lot of devotees are quoting you that... they say that there is no need to eat grains, that you said grains were for the animals.
Prabhupada: I am...
Tamala Krsna: But Prabhupada is eating grains. (laughter)
Harikesa: I tell them that.
Prabhupada: Rascal, they say, "Prabhupada says." And you believe that. [break]
Bhavananda: ...I think the people are spoiled. If they go to India, they see that here they're turning down rice; there the people are dying for lack of rice.
Prabhupada: Where?
Bhavananda: In India. And here they're saying, "Oh, I don't want this and don't want that. I don't want this grain, that grain." But in India people are dying for want of food. Here they're so spoiled. [break]
Prabhupada: ...Krsna's position. If He does not supply grains, then He is accused. And He supplies grains, then He is accused. (laughter)
Bhavananda: Everyone is accused. [break]
Satsvarupa: ...those scientists came to you, Srila Prabhupada, and even said milk was no good.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yadubara: That is what they say in these books on health, these health books. They say that cow milk is no good.
Prabhupada: Accha?
Harikesa: But meat is all right.
Yadubara: No, some of them, most of them don't say that. It's very contaminating to read those and to follow.
Prabhupada: Therefore follow taking prasadam. Let whatever may happen.
Tamala Krsna: That's the best thing. Let us die eating prasadam.
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughter) That is devotee.
Sudama: Because in the beginning, Srila Prabhupada, you encouraged us, all of us, to take much prasadam, to our full satisfaction.
Prabhupada: Yes. I say still.
Sudama: You said that that is one of our greatest weapons against maya, is Krsna-prasada. [break]
Yadubara: I'm a good example that these diets are not very good. (laughter) I can testify.
Brahmananda: Me too.
Prabhupada: The diets are not good or you are not good?
Yadubara: Oh. [break] ...for one year to alter the diet in so many ways and it never worked. It was useless. [break]
Devotee (2): I think that's for maintaining the right depth to the lake. I think they have a pump house down here, and they maintain the depth of the lake by these things.
Prabhupada: Water is supplied or...?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Devotee (1): Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (1): In Denver here we have many businesses going on for you. And we are out engaging karmis in helping us retrieve laksmi. We are going to them for laksmi in so many ways. How is it that this engages them, or does it engage them in Krsna's service? Do they make any benefit?
Prabhupada: What they are doing by doing business? They are grhasthas doing business?
Brahmananda: They are outsiders, karmis, they manufacture jewelry and some shirts, for which they get a salary.
Devotee (1): Yes, but the devotees are maintaining the business. And I myself go out and talk to rascals all day long, demons, mlecchas. Am I engaging them in Krsna's service by taking laksmi?
Prabhupada: What you are doing with the money?
Devotee (1): I'm giving it to the temple president so that we can buy a farm for you.
Prabhupada: No, if you are engaging the money for Krsna, then it is all right.
Brahmananda: He's asking about is there any benefit to the karmis that he deals with because he engages in business activity with them? Do the karmis get benefit?
Prabhupada: Yes. To some extent they are helping Krsna consciousness movement.
Yadubara: They also have this program in Pittsburg, the same thing. They come to the temple and manufacture jewelry.
Prabhupada: Svakarmana tam abhyarcya. It is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita. You can see there. Everyone can work, but the result of the work should go to Krsna. [break]
Devotee (1): ...laksmi from them so we can engage them more in Krsna's service.
Prabhupada: Provided you engage them for Krsna's service. Otherwise the laksmi will kill you. Just like Sita, Sita is Laksmi. When Sita was taken by Ravana, the result was the whole family was killed because they did not use Sita for Rama's service. [break] ...householders can be engaged, not anyone else.
Tamala Krsna: So my question is: Supposing half of those men that are in our movement are householders. Would it not be more beneficial that everyone engages in preaching work, or is that impractical?
Prabhupada: Preaching is for the sannyasis, for the brahmacari. And householder, because they are brahmanas, they can be engaged in Deity worship and also earning money.
Tamala Krsna: Business.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: So it's not more practical to earn money by preaching?
Prabhupada: If preaching, by preaching we can get money, why should we go to the karmis?
Tamala Krsna: Because you wrote me in a letter that so far as you are concerned, you think that your books are enough to maintain the society.
Prabhupada: I think so. But if they think that by doing some other business, they will get more money, then what can I say? This is very good business. Yes. We are preaching, at the same time getting money.
Devotee (2): We have found in our experience that some kinds of men do better in doing business. They feel more satisfied in collecting money in that way for Krsna.
Prabhupada: That's all right. But that money should be used for Krsna.
Devotee (2): Yes. Different kinds of men have to be engaged in different ways. Otherwise they become dissatisfied.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore Krsna says, svakarmana. Anyone, he likes to do something, that is his karma. But by that karma, he can serve Krsna. Svakarmana tam abhyarcya samsiddhim labhate navah. Samsiddhi means perfection. [break]
Devotee (1): ...in our preaching work we will be able to maintain our temples, and with our business activities, we will be able to expand and buy all these farms, do so many things.
Prabhupada: Yes. If it is favorable, do it, business.(?) Therefore we have made program: 50% must come to Krsna, at least. Jaya. Hare Krsna. [break] (In car:)
Tamala Krsna: ...because that many people are involved.
Prabhupada: Dieting, the best thing is to take prasadam.
Tamala Krsna: Definitely. It's clear cut. My only feeling about...
Prabhupada: And if our... Pushed on our men... The thing is they supply more spices, and especially that mustard. This is not good. This is prohibited.
Tamala Krsna: It should be mild, prasadam.
Prabhupada: Practically no spices. Simply little cumin. And this turmeric. Turmeric you get from India, whole turmeric. This powdered turmeric is very, very bad.
Tamala Krsna: Unhealthy.
Harikesa: They put sawdust in it.
Prabhupada: That's all.
Tamala Krsna: It's very unhealthy.
Prabhupada: It is very cheating. Any powdered spice is not good.
Harikesa: Asafoetida also.
Prabhupada: Everything. As soon as it is powder, they will mix with all rubbish things. And it is very easy to cheat you. You are susceptible for being cheated. So they take advantage and cheat you. So best thing is to import spices from India whole and either get it powdered or during time of cooking you make them paste. That is first class.
Tamala Krsna: Crushing.
Prabhupada: You just put the spices water, soaked in water for some time, and then in mortar and pestle you...
Dhananjaya: Smash it.
Prabhupada: That is very nice. And immediately you fresh prepare and put into the vegetable. It will be tasteful, and it will be beneficial. All spices are beneficial.
Tamala Krsna: And much cheaper.
Prabhupada: Cheaper, of course, there is no question to you what is cheaper. For you everything is "damn cheap."
Harikesa: The Radha-Damodara party has very good prasadam program. This halava they make every morning -- everyone is fully satisfied.
Prabhupada: They are sane men.
Tamala Krsna: Every morning we have...
Prabhupada: So why do they not follow your principle?
Tamala Krsna: Ah, it's very... And the devotees love it. Every day, Prabhupada, we...
Prabhupada: No, every temple give them example, invite them in your prasadam.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. That's what I'm going to do today.
Harikesa: I noticed the devotees would wait for prasadam with great...
Prabhupada: Yes, that is nice. It requires good leader, that's all. [break] ...Krsna we must prepare very first-class foodstuff, and where is the complaint if it is first class?
Tamala Krsna: It's all a concoction. Certain devotees have concocted. They have taken advice from other masters, food masters, what to eat, what not to eat, all concoction. It's clearly written in Bhagavad-gita, those foods which are sattvic-juicy, fatty. Everything is mentioned there.
Prabhupada: Yes. Guide them. [break] ...here the main business is slaughterhouse.
Brahmananda: In this state.
Tamala Krsna: Cow country, it's called. They call it that. On the highway you see that, "Cow country."
Prabhupada: Chicago is also this...
Tamala Krsna: Oh, very bad. That is very bad.
Brahmananda: There's one area of the town that there's a bad odor.
Prabhupada: Here also they say. Just like in Bombay, the Bandra(?).
Harikesa: Ah, terrible.
Tamala Krsna: What's Visnujana doing? [break] ...Deity, I've never seen it. He gets up early in the morning, wakes Him up, cooks for Him, then we offer arati, then bathing and dressing the Deity, sings for Him all day. He's so devoted to Radha-Damodara.
Prabhupada: Svarupa-siddhi, arcana-siddhi. By simply worshiping Deity one can become perfect. Arcana-siddhi.
Tamala Krsna: That's a great advantage of our bus. Now we just traveled for two days in a row from San Francisco, but we did not miss one arati, we had six aratis, full prasadam. We took bath on the bus in our shower room. We had regular classes, kirtana all day. It was undisturbed.
Prabhupada: So why not one week with them? I am prepared. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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