Melbourne, May 19, 1975
download Players
Madhudvisa: They take great trouble
to bring trees from all over the different parts of the world to put in the
botanical gardens.Prabhupada: Very nice gardens. Hardly there is such nice
botanical gardens in the world. I have seen many botanical... Very nice. [
This swan is black and the crow is black, but crow's place is different, their
place is different, although they are birds. The crows will enjoy a filthy place
where all refuses are thrown. I don't think in your country there is many crows.
In India, you've seen, all nasty place, that is visited by the crows. It is
stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, na yad vacas citra-padam harer yaso jagat-pavitram
pragrnita karhicit, tad vayasam tirtham [SB 1.5.10]. The literature which does
not describe Krsna, that is the place for the crows. There is sex literature,
they're enjoyed by the crows, and this Bhagavatam is enjoyed by the swans. That
is the difference. Crow's literature and swan's literature, paramahamsa. Paramo
nirmatsaranam satam vastavam vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. Everyone in this
material world, they're envious. Their business is to become envious. I am
envious of you, you are envious of me. This is material world. And the
paramahamsas, Vaisnava, they're kind, they're merciful. "Ah, this fallen soul is
suffering for want of Krsna. Let us preach." That is the difference. The envious
and the nonenvious. That is paramahamsa. Titiksavah karunikah [SB 3.25.21]. They
are not only not envious, but they're merciful. They'll suffer so many troubles
for their preaching work, still they'll do that. Titiksava. A preacher has to
suffer so many inconvenience. You had to suffer in here?
Madhudvisa: Where?
Prabhupada: In Australia.
Madhudvisa: Yes, we had some suffering.
Prabhupada: Everywhere. Now you have seen that letter? We have been permitted by the federal government to sell our books in the airport.
Madhudvisa: Yes, that is a major breakthrough.
Prabhupada: The judge might have seen our literature, "It is such a nice literature they are selling, they must be given permission." [break] No husband, no children, one dog. (laughter) Just see. Children-contraceptive. And dog-welcome.
Woman: Good morning.
Prabhupada: Good morning.
Devotee: Hare Krsna. (laughter)
Prabhupada: For children-kill them. This is Kali-yuga. They are killing their own children and patting a dog. Just see how much fallen they are, and they're passing as civilized. Fourth class. Complaining of overpopulation, and the dog gives birth at a time half a dozen -- there is no overpopulation, welcome; we shall maintain them. Huh? They're giving twice in a year, or once in a, even once in a year, that is no overpopulation. A man gives one or two birth, it is overpopulation. Formerly they are begetting hundred children. At that time there was no complaint of overpopulation. At that time, the description in the history is kamam vavarsa parjanyah [SB 1.10.4]. On account of good rains, the earth used to produce immense necessities of life. Just like this portion is maintained with sufficient water, there is green everywhere. So if there is sufficient rain, everywhere you can do. Where is the question of overpopulation? [break] ...population you work for growing food. No. Some of them are becoming hippies, no work. And some of them are working for manufacturing tire tube, tools, that's all. Where is food? Still there is food, but they'll not work for this, for growing food.
Madhudvisa: They have run one survey...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Madhudvisa: ...and they have found out that the people of Australia spend so much money on feeding their pets that two hundred thousand people per year could be fed with the money that is used to feed the pets.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Devotee: What is the population of Australia?
Madhudvisa: Two hundred thousand people a year.
Prabhupada: If they spend money for the poor country, they'll not do that. Sinful man is given this form of tea(?), a tree. So, but nature is so nice that even the sinful living entities can beautify. How properly utilized. But they have no fruits and flowers.
Madhudvisa: No. Kali-yuga trees. [break]
Prabhupada: ...are available here? No.
Devotee: Popper? Yes.
Prabhupada: Indian store here? No.
Devotee: Indian import store?
Madhudvisa: Yes. Indian import store they have. We have papadams.
Prabhupada: Take the dal, urad dal, and make it powder like flour, and knead it with oil. And give masala and then make like capati. And when it is dry it is papad. It is not difficult. Add little soda-bicarb.
Madhudvisa: Make it stiff.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: Hm.
Prabhupada: Powder dal, then I can show you how to do it.
Madhudvisa: Powder dal. We can put the dal in a grinder...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Madhudvisa: ...and grind it up.
Prabhupada: Now it is not (indistinct). The widows, because widows, there is no widow marriage. So widows, they earn their livelihood by making papad and guri. They prepare at home guri, papad, and sell and make their livelihood.
Madhudvisa: : You have said that you have nullified the law of gravity, but how can we explain that everything is falling down?
Prabhupada: Yes, the green leaves not falling down -- the dry leaves falling down, under certain condition. So it is not the law of gravitation. Why the green leaves does not fall down? Only the rejected things are falling. The rejected, you also throw away, so nature is throwing away. Where is the question of gravity?
Madhudvisa: When they go up in the space ship there is such a force holding the rocket ship down, they must have...
Prabhupada: That is everything. Everything, everything will fall down on the ground, but the controlling power is the air. If the air is adjusted, then it will not fall down.
Madhudvisa: That's why when they go into outer space they become weightless, they can float without any airplane.
Prabhupada: That, what they're doing (indistinct). But we see that if you can make adjustment in the air, just like we see the heavy cloud bearing many million tons of water, they do not fall down, they float. Where is the law of gravity?
Amogha: (laughs) Hare Krsna. You also give that example of those big birds.
Prabhupada: Yes. Big, big birds, they carry elephant.
Madhudvisa: We have not seen such a bird. (devotees laugh)
Prabhupada: What you have seen? You have seen your father and mother, that's all. What you have seen? You are still in the womb of your mother. What you you have seen? You can simply falsely speculate, that's all. What you have seen? Are you seeing the stars now? Why you are not seeing? The stars are there, why you are not seeing?
Madhudvisa: My eyes are not good enough.
Prabhupada: Therefore if you have got imperfect eyes, what you can see? First of all you admit that you have got imperfect eyes. Then what you can see with your imperfect eyes? If you are a blind man, what is the use of telling, "I do not see." You are blind man, what you can see? First of all you admit that you are blind man, then talk of seeing. Therefore Vedic literature... Sastra-caksus. You should see through sastra, not your these blind eyes. Sastra says there is Krsna, He is doing like that. Cintamani-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vrk... You should see like that. What you see with your eyes? Why you are so proud of your eyes? Blind eyes. That is submission. Do you see who is your father? Why do you accept by the recommendation of the mother that "Here is your father." Do you see who is your father? Then what is the use of telling, "I want to see"? What you can see? You have to take the authority of the mother. Mother says, "Here is your father," that's all. You cannot say, "I have not seen that he is my father." Can you say? So there is no value of this statement, "I do not see" or "We cannot see."
Madhudvisa: In other books, Srila Prabhupada, it says things and then in time you can see them, you can substantiate them. But some of the descriptions in the Bhagavatam are so fantastic that people, I mean, its very difficult for people to even...
Prabhupada: Therefore you have to believe only. You have to accept what Bhagavata says. That is your business. Not to try to make an experiment. That is not possible. It is already experimented, and the mature knowledge is stated there. You have to accept, that's all. Sruti-pramana. Sruti means Vedas. Evidence... Vedic literature there are three kinds of evidences. The most powerful evidence is sruti. If it is stated in the Vedas, that is first-class evidence. Therefore whatever we say, immediately quote some Vedic version, that is the way of understanding. Krsna says, Vyasadeva says, Parasara says, that's all. We don't require much proof. This is the first-class proof, when you find the statement corroborated by the Vedas. And sruti, smrti. Smrti means literature written according to the Vedic version. Sruti-smrti-puranadi [Brs. 1.2.101]. Puranadi is itihasa, history. And another pramana is anumana. And anumana means "by right person." Thinking that it may be like this, anumana. That is called anumana.
Madhudvisa: Would that be like the songs written by Bhaktivinoda and things like that?
Prabhupada: Huh? Yes.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, you said that the songs written by the great acaryas are expansions of the holy name. Could you explain that?
Prabhupada: What is that?
Madhudvisa: The songs written by the great acaryas are said to be expansions of the holy name.
Prabhupada: Yes, glorify. Trees live for thousands of years, five thousand, six thousand. Fig tree and banyan tree, they do not die.
Madhudvisa: They must be especially sinful. They get five thousand years as a tree.
Prabhupada: No, they are most pious. Because you want to live more by science, so they are also living more years. What is the use of such living, like tree? Therefore Bhagavata says taravo kim na jivanti. You are trying to live more years by scientific advancement, but do the trees not live for many, many years? What you will gain by that? Suppose you live for three thousand years, what you will gain if you remain ignorant? Better live for a few years and understand that this material world is worse, I have to go to the spiritual world and meet Krsna. That knowledge will help you. You live for ten years, but get this knowledge, Krsna consciousness. That is perfect life. And what is the use of living like this tree for many thousands of years without any knowledge? [break] ...cars, they have come to botanical garden? No.
Madhudvisa: No, they go, they park their cars here and they walk into town.
Prabhupada: Ah. Why?
Madhudvisa: They don't like to pay money for parking space. They park out here and walk into their different office buildings. [break]
Prabhupada: It is said (Bengali). A villager, very poor man, he says, "I am very poor man. I live on eating the grasshoppers."
Madhudvisa: Grasshoppers.
Prabhupada: Yes. "I have no money. But when I go to pass stool, I ride on a horse." They cannot pay parking fare, but still they keep a carriage. (laughs) (Bengali). Because the villagers go to the field for passing stool, so this gariba man, this poor man, goes on a horse. Leaves can be also utilized as fire, but they do not know that. In India they collect, poor man, and use as fuel, they cook food. All this dry twigs and this, that can be used as fuel, at the same time the ground will be cleansed.
Madhudvisa: In India there is no problem with litter. There is no litter problem. No problem about paper and things thrown around because everything that is thrown in the street is immediately taken up by some form of beggar or some form of animal.
Prabhupada: Municipal sweeper also. [break] Similarly we can go to the place where there is simply pleasing atmosphere. Simply we have to become purified. That is required. But they don't want to be purified, they want to become more entangled in sinful life, illicit sex, meat-eating. That they do not know that "I am entangling myself. Instead of being purified, I am becoming more and more entangled." This is ignorance. [break] ...criticize us, shaven-headed. They don't criticize long hairs, but shaven-headed. Just see. If you don't criticize the long hairs, why should criticize the shaven-headed? But they criticize us. So regularly they are going out?
Madhudvisa: Sankirtana?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Madhudvisa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: That's nice. That is wanted. Live here very nicely and go back to home, back to Godhead. Why should you die like cats and dogs? Die like a human being and be freed from all these material anxieties. But their determination is that they must live in this hellish condition. They do not believe in the next life. If they believe in the next life, then it becomes horrible. They want to avoid this question. "No, no there is no life. Enjoy to the best capacity now." Enjoy. We do not say that don't enjoy, but enjoy so that you may not be implicated. There is no harm having big house, comfortable life, but keep Krsna, chant Hare Krsna. What is the wrong there? Hm? Madhudvisa Maharaja, if they chant Hare Krsna in these big, big skyscraper buildings, what is their loss?
Madhudvisa: Hm.
Prabhupada: Huh? There is no loss, still they will not do it. We don't say that don't live in the... We are living in nice building; you also live in nice building. But see, do, see what we are doing there. Everyone can do it. Everyone can... That is Vedic culture, and everywhere Visnu, Narayana-sila is worshiped. At least the higher castes, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya -- not the sudras. Don't eat meat, don't have intoxication, no illicit sex, have Krsna's picture, chant Hare Krsna, make nice preparation, where is the difficulty? Take this civilization.
Devotee: Many karmis think, Srila Prabhupada, that you are born and then you die and that is the finish.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Devotee: Many karmis think that you are born and then you die and then finish.
Prabhupada: No. That is not the fact. You are born a child, then you get a youthful body, where you are finished? Does it mean that when the childish body is finished, the soul is also finished? Why he remembers, "Oh I was a child like this." This is simple argument. Where you are finished?
Madhudvisa: You can see the progression. When you are born you are small...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: ...when you die, you are big.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: So that is progression. So how can they say that progression will stop?
Prabhupada: Yes. That is another foolishness to say like that, that with the body everything is finished. Where it is finished? [break] ...supposed to be educated, advanced in civilization, and this simple truth they cannot understand. Mudha. Where is finishing? Why you are trying to live for many years? Why don't you welcome death? (devotees begin kirtana) Hare Krsna. (end)
Madhudvisa: Where?
Prabhupada: In Australia.
Madhudvisa: Yes, we had some suffering.
Prabhupada: Everywhere. Now you have seen that letter? We have been permitted by the federal government to sell our books in the airport.
Madhudvisa: Yes, that is a major breakthrough.
Prabhupada: The judge might have seen our literature, "It is such a nice literature they are selling, they must be given permission." [break] No husband, no children, one dog. (laughter) Just see. Children-contraceptive. And dog-welcome.
Woman: Good morning.
Prabhupada: Good morning.
Devotee: Hare Krsna. (laughter)
Prabhupada: For children-kill them. This is Kali-yuga. They are killing their own children and patting a dog. Just see how much fallen they are, and they're passing as civilized. Fourth class. Complaining of overpopulation, and the dog gives birth at a time half a dozen -- there is no overpopulation, welcome; we shall maintain them. Huh? They're giving twice in a year, or once in a, even once in a year, that is no overpopulation. A man gives one or two birth, it is overpopulation. Formerly they are begetting hundred children. At that time there was no complaint of overpopulation. At that time, the description in the history is kamam vavarsa parjanyah [SB 1.10.4]. On account of good rains, the earth used to produce immense necessities of life. Just like this portion is maintained with sufficient water, there is green everywhere. So if there is sufficient rain, everywhere you can do. Where is the question of overpopulation? [break] ...population you work for growing food. No. Some of them are becoming hippies, no work. And some of them are working for manufacturing tire tube, tools, that's all. Where is food? Still there is food, but they'll not work for this, for growing food.
Madhudvisa: They have run one survey...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Madhudvisa: ...and they have found out that the people of Australia spend so much money on feeding their pets that two hundred thousand people per year could be fed with the money that is used to feed the pets.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Devotee: What is the population of Australia?
Madhudvisa: Two hundred thousand people a year.
Prabhupada: If they spend money for the poor country, they'll not do that. Sinful man is given this form of tea(?), a tree. So, but nature is so nice that even the sinful living entities can beautify. How properly utilized. But they have no fruits and flowers.
Madhudvisa: No. Kali-yuga trees. [break]
Prabhupada: ...are available here? No.
Devotee: Popper? Yes.
Prabhupada: Indian store here? No.
Devotee: Indian import store?
Madhudvisa: Yes. Indian import store they have. We have papadams.
Prabhupada: Take the dal, urad dal, and make it powder like flour, and knead it with oil. And give masala and then make like capati. And when it is dry it is papad. It is not difficult. Add little soda-bicarb.
Madhudvisa: Make it stiff.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: Hm.
Prabhupada: Powder dal, then I can show you how to do it.
Madhudvisa: Powder dal. We can put the dal in a grinder...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Madhudvisa: ...and grind it up.
Prabhupada: Now it is not (indistinct). The widows, because widows, there is no widow marriage. So widows, they earn their livelihood by making papad and guri. They prepare at home guri, papad, and sell and make their livelihood.
Madhudvisa: : You have said that you have nullified the law of gravity, but how can we explain that everything is falling down?
Prabhupada: Yes, the green leaves not falling down -- the dry leaves falling down, under certain condition. So it is not the law of gravitation. Why the green leaves does not fall down? Only the rejected things are falling. The rejected, you also throw away, so nature is throwing away. Where is the question of gravity?
Madhudvisa: When they go up in the space ship there is such a force holding the rocket ship down, they must have...
Prabhupada: That is everything. Everything, everything will fall down on the ground, but the controlling power is the air. If the air is adjusted, then it will not fall down.
Madhudvisa: That's why when they go into outer space they become weightless, they can float without any airplane.
Prabhupada: That, what they're doing (indistinct). But we see that if you can make adjustment in the air, just like we see the heavy cloud bearing many million tons of water, they do not fall down, they float. Where is the law of gravity?
Amogha: (laughs) Hare Krsna. You also give that example of those big birds.
Prabhupada: Yes. Big, big birds, they carry elephant.
Madhudvisa: We have not seen such a bird. (devotees laugh)
Prabhupada: What you have seen? You have seen your father and mother, that's all. What you have seen? You are still in the womb of your mother. What you you have seen? You can simply falsely speculate, that's all. What you have seen? Are you seeing the stars now? Why you are not seeing? The stars are there, why you are not seeing?
Madhudvisa: My eyes are not good enough.
Prabhupada: Therefore if you have got imperfect eyes, what you can see? First of all you admit that you have got imperfect eyes. Then what you can see with your imperfect eyes? If you are a blind man, what is the use of telling, "I do not see." You are blind man, what you can see? First of all you admit that you are blind man, then talk of seeing. Therefore Vedic literature... Sastra-caksus. You should see through sastra, not your these blind eyes. Sastra says there is Krsna, He is doing like that. Cintamani-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vrk... You should see like that. What you see with your eyes? Why you are so proud of your eyes? Blind eyes. That is submission. Do you see who is your father? Why do you accept by the recommendation of the mother that "Here is your father." Do you see who is your father? Then what is the use of telling, "I want to see"? What you can see? You have to take the authority of the mother. Mother says, "Here is your father," that's all. You cannot say, "I have not seen that he is my father." Can you say? So there is no value of this statement, "I do not see" or "We cannot see."
Madhudvisa: In other books, Srila Prabhupada, it says things and then in time you can see them, you can substantiate them. But some of the descriptions in the Bhagavatam are so fantastic that people, I mean, its very difficult for people to even...
Prabhupada: Therefore you have to believe only. You have to accept what Bhagavata says. That is your business. Not to try to make an experiment. That is not possible. It is already experimented, and the mature knowledge is stated there. You have to accept, that's all. Sruti-pramana. Sruti means Vedas. Evidence... Vedic literature there are three kinds of evidences. The most powerful evidence is sruti. If it is stated in the Vedas, that is first-class evidence. Therefore whatever we say, immediately quote some Vedic version, that is the way of understanding. Krsna says, Vyasadeva says, Parasara says, that's all. We don't require much proof. This is the first-class proof, when you find the statement corroborated by the Vedas. And sruti, smrti. Smrti means literature written according to the Vedic version. Sruti-smrti-puranadi [Brs. 1.2.101]. Puranadi is itihasa, history. And another pramana is anumana. And anumana means "by right person." Thinking that it may be like this, anumana. That is called anumana.
Madhudvisa: Would that be like the songs written by Bhaktivinoda and things like that?
Prabhupada: Huh? Yes.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, you said that the songs written by the great acaryas are expansions of the holy name. Could you explain that?
Prabhupada: What is that?
Madhudvisa: The songs written by the great acaryas are said to be expansions of the holy name.
Prabhupada: Yes, glorify. Trees live for thousands of years, five thousand, six thousand. Fig tree and banyan tree, they do not die.
Madhudvisa: They must be especially sinful. They get five thousand years as a tree.
Prabhupada: No, they are most pious. Because you want to live more by science, so they are also living more years. What is the use of such living, like tree? Therefore Bhagavata says taravo kim na jivanti. You are trying to live more years by scientific advancement, but do the trees not live for many, many years? What you will gain by that? Suppose you live for three thousand years, what you will gain if you remain ignorant? Better live for a few years and understand that this material world is worse, I have to go to the spiritual world and meet Krsna. That knowledge will help you. You live for ten years, but get this knowledge, Krsna consciousness. That is perfect life. And what is the use of living like this tree for many thousands of years without any knowledge? [break] ...cars, they have come to botanical garden? No.
Madhudvisa: No, they go, they park their cars here and they walk into town.
Prabhupada: Ah. Why?
Madhudvisa: They don't like to pay money for parking space. They park out here and walk into their different office buildings. [break]
Prabhupada: It is said (Bengali). A villager, very poor man, he says, "I am very poor man. I live on eating the grasshoppers."
Madhudvisa: Grasshoppers.
Prabhupada: Yes. "I have no money. But when I go to pass stool, I ride on a horse." They cannot pay parking fare, but still they keep a carriage. (laughs) (Bengali). Because the villagers go to the field for passing stool, so this gariba man, this poor man, goes on a horse. Leaves can be also utilized as fire, but they do not know that. In India they collect, poor man, and use as fuel, they cook food. All this dry twigs and this, that can be used as fuel, at the same time the ground will be cleansed.
Madhudvisa: In India there is no problem with litter. There is no litter problem. No problem about paper and things thrown around because everything that is thrown in the street is immediately taken up by some form of beggar or some form of animal.
Prabhupada: Municipal sweeper also. [break] Similarly we can go to the place where there is simply pleasing atmosphere. Simply we have to become purified. That is required. But they don't want to be purified, they want to become more entangled in sinful life, illicit sex, meat-eating. That they do not know that "I am entangling myself. Instead of being purified, I am becoming more and more entangled." This is ignorance. [break] ...criticize us, shaven-headed. They don't criticize long hairs, but shaven-headed. Just see. If you don't criticize the long hairs, why should criticize the shaven-headed? But they criticize us. So regularly they are going out?
Madhudvisa: Sankirtana?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Madhudvisa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: That's nice. That is wanted. Live here very nicely and go back to home, back to Godhead. Why should you die like cats and dogs? Die like a human being and be freed from all these material anxieties. But their determination is that they must live in this hellish condition. They do not believe in the next life. If they believe in the next life, then it becomes horrible. They want to avoid this question. "No, no there is no life. Enjoy to the best capacity now." Enjoy. We do not say that don't enjoy, but enjoy so that you may not be implicated. There is no harm having big house, comfortable life, but keep Krsna, chant Hare Krsna. What is the wrong there? Hm? Madhudvisa Maharaja, if they chant Hare Krsna in these big, big skyscraper buildings, what is their loss?
Madhudvisa: Hm.
Prabhupada: Huh? There is no loss, still they will not do it. We don't say that don't live in the... We are living in nice building; you also live in nice building. But see, do, see what we are doing there. Everyone can do it. Everyone can... That is Vedic culture, and everywhere Visnu, Narayana-sila is worshiped. At least the higher castes, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya -- not the sudras. Don't eat meat, don't have intoxication, no illicit sex, have Krsna's picture, chant Hare Krsna, make nice preparation, where is the difficulty? Take this civilization.
Devotee: Many karmis think, Srila Prabhupada, that you are born and then you die and that is the finish.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Devotee: Many karmis think that you are born and then you die and then finish.
Prabhupada: No. That is not the fact. You are born a child, then you get a youthful body, where you are finished? Does it mean that when the childish body is finished, the soul is also finished? Why he remembers, "Oh I was a child like this." This is simple argument. Where you are finished?
Madhudvisa: You can see the progression. When you are born you are small...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: ...when you die, you are big.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: So that is progression. So how can they say that progression will stop?
Prabhupada: Yes. That is another foolishness to say like that, that with the body everything is finished. Where it is finished? [break] ...supposed to be educated, advanced in civilization, and this simple truth they cannot understand. Mudha. Where is finishing? Why you are trying to live for many years? Why don't you welcome death? (devotees begin kirtana) Hare Krsna. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
No comments:
Post a Comment