"The Skin Disease"

73/08/20 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.14



Pradyumna: Translation: "O son of Kunti, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed [Bg. 2.14]."

Prabhupada: This is very important verse. In the previous verse it has been described, dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Actually we living entities, we are within the body. The bodily pains and pleasure are not the pains and pleasure of the soul within. It is simply abhinivesa. It is called abhinivesa, absorption or misidentify. The example I have given many times. Just like you are sitting in a nice motorcar; another man is sitting on a rickshaw. I have seen in India. So the rickshaw has come in front of the nice motorcar, and the driver is asking that man who is drawing the rickshaw, "You rickshaw!" Means he is thinking, he is sitting in a nice motorcar, so he has become a motor, and the man who is drawing the rickshaw, he has become rickshaw. This is the position. Actually the man who is drawing the rickshaw, he is also human being. And the man who is sitting in a nice Rolls Royce car, he is also human being. But the rascal, because he is sitting on a Rolls Royce car, he is thinking, "I am a Rolls Royce, and he is rickshaw." This is material conception of life, that according to the body, we are becoming designated, not as the soul. Just try to understand this very good example. Because that poor fellow is drawing rickshaw, he has been taken as rickshaw. And because I am sitting in a Rolls Royce car, I am thinking, "I am Rolls Royce."

So this bodily conception of life, when we get out of it, that is real knowledge, pandita. Panditah sama-darsinah.

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
[Bg. 5.18]

Pandita means those who are learned. Learned means brahmana, not sudra. Sudras, they are not learned. Mlecchas, yavanas, sudras, kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira, so many. Learned means brahmana. Learned means that one who knows that Brahman. Brahman, the spirit soul, is part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman. So one who has come to that knowledge, that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul; aham brahmasmi," that is knowledge. Knowledge begins from there. If one does not reach to that point, aham brahmasmi, then he is animal. The animal thinking like that, "I am rickshaw," "I am motorcar," "I am cat," "I am dog," "I am this," "I am that." That is animal thinking. But a person... Learned thinking is that "I am not this body; I am part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman, aham brahmasmi." And when you are farther advanced from Brahman knowledge... The knowledge begins from there. When you make further advancement, then you can understand that "I am eternal servant of Krsna." This is perfect knowledge. First of all knowledge begins that "I am not this body."

sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam
tat-paratvena nirmalam
hrsikena hrsikesa-
sevanam bhaktir ucyate
[Cc. Madhya 19.170]

So long we have got this bodily concept of life -- "I am Rolls Royce car," "I am rickshaw," "I am American," "I am Englishman," "I am this," "I am that" -- so long we are in ignorance. The same example: The man is not rickshaw, I am not motorcar, but I am thinking like that. I am asking that poor fellow, rickshaw wala, scornfully, because I am sitting in a very nice car. This is going on. But when you become learned, then panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. Sama-darsinah means one who is learned, he knows that "Although he is pulling rickshaw, poor man, he is also a human being, and I am, although sitting in a very nice, costly Rolls Royce, I am also human being. As human being, we are the same."

So dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. All of us, the living entity, soul, is within this body. Not this body I am. So one who has realized this thing, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, and living by nature's arrangement, I have been allowed to live in such and such body," then he is learned. That is the beginning. So Krsna, from the previous verse, that is actual spiritual education. In the world, these rascals are going on, spiritualists. They do not know the very first thing of spiritual knowledge, that "I am not this body." They are doing so many sinful acts on account of this body; still, they are going as religious, or spiritualist. Nobody is spiritualist unless one understands his spiritual identification, neither one is religious. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita the last word is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66], because you rascal, fools, you have created so many religious system simply on the differences of body. That is not religion. Real religion is that "I am the Supreme Soul, Parambrahma, Krsna. And you are My part and parcel. So we have intimate relation, like father and son. So it is the son's duty to obey the father. That is perfection of life." That's all. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. You have created so many religious system on the bodily concept of life, bodily concept of life so strong that even big, big learned so-called religionists, they say that the animal has no soul. The bodily concept of... Because a human body is very much advanced, has got the power to kill animals, therefore they are speaking this nonsense that the animal has no soul. Why the animal has no soul? What is the symptom of possessing soul? I am spirit soul; I am within this body. Everyone can understand. Understand or no understand, if I am a human being, if I have got my soul, why this poor animal has no soul? What, where is the difference, that you say that the animal has no soul? Where is the difference? Let us analyze. Soul... The, I mean to say, existence of the soul within the body, how we can understand? That is very easy. Because yena sarvam idam... Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gita. Yena sarvam idam tatam: The soul is existing, spreading its influence all over the body, just like the sun is existing, spreading the sunshine all over the universe. Similarly, God is existing, spreading His consciousness all over the universe, all over the creation.

Therefore He knows everything. Similarly, I am also part and parcel of God. I am also soul, like the sun. My shining, my consciousness, is spread all over the body. Yena sarvam idam tatam. Avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam. These things, slokas, will come. "That thing which is spreading all over the body, that is avinasi; that is eternal." Antavanta ime dehah: "But this body is antavat; it is perishable. But within the body, the soul, which is spreading its consciousness all over the body, that is eternal." We shall come to that verse later on. Avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam tatam.

Therefore the proof of the soul existing is that the consciousness is spread all over my body. As soon as I pinch any part of my body, I feel pain. Therefore I understand a soul is there. Just like a man who is going to die. So doctor is examining. He sees the pulse. He sees the heart -- "Yes, it is beating." That is the sign that still the man is living. Similarly, the soul is there. The proof is that I can feel pains and pleasure on my body. That is explained in this verse. Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya [Bg. 2.14]. Actually the body in touch with the consciousness feeling pains and pleasure. Otherwise body, what is this body? It is a lump of matter. It is a lump of matter, earth, water, fire, air, material combination of matter. Just like you make one doll, combination of matter, earth, water, fire... Or no fire. Yes, still there is fire. Because you dry it in the sunshine, therefore there is fire. Earth, water, fire, and there is air, there is sky -- but there is no soul. That is the difference. You can prepare a doll with earth, water, air, fire, all these things, material elements. But you cannot give the soul. That is not possible. That is possible only by Krsna. Aham garbham dadamy aham.(?) Just like man and woman. Actually the woman is giving the ingredients of developing body of the child. But when it is possible? When the man gives the seed. Otherwise a woman could produce a child without the aid of a man. No, that is not possible. When the seed, with the seed the soul comes. And when the soul is situated in the womb of the woman, the woman can assist by supplying the ingredients to develop the body. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. So by nature's process, when one gives up this material body, the subtle body is there, mind, intelligence and ego. The subtle body carries the soul and it is just...

Now, this soul, where it will go? Then the whole calculation is taken, what is his asset and liabilities of the life, daiva-netrena, by superior judgment. Just like a man in an office, in a business concern, when increment is given or promotion is given, the whole assets and liabilities are taken, anywhere. Anywhere, a man is promoted or degraded when all the liabilities and assets are taken and judged, "Yes, this man has done nice, so give him promotion." And if he has not done nice, "Degrade him." Or "Don't give him promotion." Similarly, we are getting different types of body according to our karma. Karmana... Otherwise why all living entities are not of the same merit, same feature of the body, same position, same edu...? Why there are difference? This is common sense. Varieties of body, varieties of position, is due... Just like the same example: The poor man has got only rickshaw, and the rich man has got a Rolls Royce car because he has paid more. Similarly, if your work is nice, then you are promoted, promoted to higher standard of life, just like in the heaven -- abrahma-bhuvanal lokah -- or in the Brahma-loka. But your, if your work is sinful and abominable, then you are degraded to cats and dogs. Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah [Bg. 14.18]. Those who are advanced in the... Because here everything is quality, everything. You go to purchase anything in the market; you will see the quality -- first quality, second quality, third quality. Similarly, all living entities, all souls, they have got qualitative body. Qualitative body. So the first quality body you can get in the higher planetary system. The second quality of body means you have to remain in the middle planetary system. And the third quality body, you go down. Or... "Go down" means you become animals, trees, insects, birds, beasts, like that. This is going on.

So matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14]. So that, according to the body, you get pains and pleasure of this material world. A very rich man, living very comfortably, a little painful thing is intolerable by him, because he has got a such body, so delicate body. Just like a child. Because he has got delicate the body, little pinching makes him crying, uncomfortable. So it is all due to body. But the soul is different from the body. So Krsna is trying to convince Arjuna that "Why you are hesitating to fight? Do your duty. Your so-called grandfather or so-called guru, as you say, your teacher, they are not this body. So in this fight, if your grandfather or teacher is killed, why you are lamenting? They are eternal." That is also explained, that "They were existing in the past, they are existing at present, and they will continue to exist. Simply the body will change. So why you are lamenting? Rather, it is a great facility that your grandfather has got now old body, he is not very comfortable, but he will get next life a very new body. So it is good for him if you kill him." Of course, that is not the point. (laughter) You cannot kill without any reason. That is not point. But here, "It is fight. It is duty. They have come to kill you." And the ksatriyas, their determination is, when they go to fight, either to own victory or die, not returning back, sir, no. If a ksatriya is hurt on the back side, he is degraded. He must be hurt on the chest, front side. That is ksatriya. That means he has fought nicely. There is injury on the chest, not in the back side. Back side injury means he was fleeing. So ksatriya's determination is, either you own the battle or die in the battle. That will be explained. "If you own the battle, then enjoy. You have got the kingdom. But if you die in the battle, you go to the heaven. Because you have fought for the right cause, you will go to the heaven." So killing, killing is very bad, but killing for the sake of right cause of fighting, or killing in the sacrifice, they are not sinful. Sometimes in the Vedas killing is recommended, just like in the fight or in the sacrifice, but that is not sinful. Sometimes a brahmana is sacrificing, offering, performing great sacrifice, and the animal is put into the fire just to give him renovated, new life, not for killing, just to test how Vedic mantras are being properly pronounced. That will be test. When sacrifice is done, the fire is there, and old animal is put into the sacrifice, and he comes out with a new body. That means the Vedic mantras are being pronounced very properly, and it is being carried out. This is the experiment, not for killing. Although in the Vedas there are recommendation that pasu-vadha system... Just like in the modern age also, when some experiment is made, it is made on the life of the animal. But they are killed. But when there is recommendation of putting an animal in the fire, that is not for killing; that is to see that this animal has got a new body.

So on the whole one has to understand that this, we are not this body, "I am not this body." And if we feel bodily pains and pleasure, that is bodily pains and pleasure; that is not the pleasure and pains of the soul. The soul pains and pleasure is being put into different body. And out of ignorance, because he is identifying, out of ignorance, that "I am this body," therefore soul is in pains and pleasure. Otherwise the soul has no pains and pleasure. Asango 'yam purusah. In the Vedas it is said that "The soul has nothing to do with this body." Asanga. Asanga means "without any touch." But out of ignorance he is thinking... The same example: out of ignorance, the rascal is thinking that he has become Rolls Royce, and if the Rolls Royce is broken by some accident, he becomes overwhelmed: "Oh, I am lost." Where you are lost? Your car is lost. This is going on. The car is lost. Therefore, when one becomes brahma-bhuta [SB 4.30.20], actually realized -- self-realization, that is called -- na socati na kanksati: [Bg. 18.54] there is no more lamenting, no more hankering. "Because I am not this body, why I shall hanker after this bodily comfort? Whatever Krsna has given, that's all right." But they are absorbed in the bodily concept. Therefore they are simply seeking bodily and sensuous enjoyment. That's all.

This is material world, all fools and rascals. All materialists are fools and rascals, mudha. They are called mudha. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. Because they are fools and rascals, they are committing sinful life, becoming entangled in the transmigration of the soul in different types of bodies, and perpetually suffering. Because as soon as you get this body, you'll suffer, either white body or black body or yellow body. It doesn't matter. Either man's body or animal's body, as soon as you get this body, you must suffer. This is the punishment of nature. You must suffer. A king cannot say that "Because I have this queen's body, king's body, there is no suffering." This is nonsense. You have to suffer. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [Bg. 13.9]. At least these sufferings must be there: the sufferings of birth, sufferings of death, sufferings of disease and sufferings of old age. There must be. Either you become king or you become a dog or you become a cat, it doesn't matter, even if you become Brahma. Abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. This is the philosophy.

Therefore the problem is how to get out of this bodily entanglement. I am spirit soul. Somehow or other, I have fallen in this entanglement of bodily transformation. There, Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, anadi karama-phale, pori' bhavarnava-jale, toribare na dekhi upay: "Somehow or other I have fallen in this ocean of birth and death. I do not know how to get out of it." Just like if you are thrown into the ocean, however expert swimmer you may be, that is not your comfortable life. You have to swim all along, otherwise immediately drown. Similarly, as soon as you get yourself in this material world, you have to struggle for existence. You have to. If you want to stop this struggle for existence, then you must get out of this material existence. That is the problem of life. Anadi karama-phale, pori' bhavarnava-jale, toribare na dekhi upay. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu teaches us, ayi nanda-tanuja patitam kinkaram mam visame bhavambudhau: "My dear Lord, Nanda-tanuja, son of Nanda Maharaja, Krsna, I am Your eternal servant. Somehow or other, I am now fallen in this material ocean." Ayi nanda-tanuja patitam kinkaram mam visame bhavambudhau. Visame: "Very ferocious danger, ocean of this material existence, I am fallen. Although I am Your servant, some way or other, I have forgot. I have fallen down." Then ayi nanda-tanuja patitam kinkaram mam visame bhava, krpaya: "Now I am seeking Your mercy." Krpaya tava pada-pankaja-sthita-dhuli-sadrsam vicintaya: "Now take me again. Pick me, and make me the one particle of dust of Your lotus feet." This should be our prayer, no other prayer. No other prayer. Caitanya Mahaprabhu does not teach any other. Na dhanam na janam na sundarim kavitam va jagad-isa kamaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Siksastaka 4]. People generally pray for material benefits: "O God, give us our daily bread. Give me nice position. Give me nice wife, nice following or this or victory," so on, so on, so on, simply for material enjoyment. My Guru Maharaja used to say that if we pray to God for all these nonsense things, it is just like a man goes to a king and the king says, "Whatever you want you can ask from me," and if the man says, "Kindly give me a pinch of ashes." It is like that. If we ask from God for some material benefit, it means that I am asking from a king a pinch of ashes. When king says that "You ask whatever you want," he can say, "So give me half the kingdom." That should be the prayer. And why a pinch of ash? Similarly, it is our foolishness. When we ask for bread, "O God, give us our daily bread," that means I am asking. The bread is already there. Why for you? For everyone, for all living entities, the bread is already there given by God. Eko yo bahunam vidadhati kaman. The elephant is not going to the church for praying, "Give me food." He is supplied in the jungle food. A tiger is supplied food. Even ant is supplied food within the hole. Who is going to supply food there? How they are eating? How they are living? How they are begetting children? The same thing is there. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithuna -- everything is there in the ant, in the elephant. Who is supplying their necessities? So this is not the problem, these rascals. They are simply perplexed with this problem, how to eat, how to sleep, how to defend. This is already fixed up according to your karma. You simply try -- save your time -- how to advance in Krsna consciousness. That is your own business. Otherwise you are spoiled. And so far these things are concerned, that how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, and how to defend, this is already arranged. You cannot make betterment in this way. That is already fixed up. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. According to your lot, according to your karma, you have been fixed up that "You shall eat like this, you shall sleep like this, you'll have sex life like this, and you will be able to defend like this, not more than that." That is not possible. That is called destiny. So by destiny this is already fixed up. Don't spoil your life for these things.

But people are anxious for these things. This is called ignorance. Therefore the sastra says, tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovidah. You are transmigrating from so many bodies, this body to that body. Now you have got the chance, human body. Now you can read Bhagavad-gita. Now you can learn from Krsna what is the problem of life. Utilize for that purpose. Don't be perplexed with this problem of this body. Therefore Krsna says, matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14]. You should know... Just like the summer season comes. You should know, "It has come; it will go away. The winter season has come. It has come; it will go away." So just to try to protect yourself as far as possible, but you are not affected by such summer season or winter season. You should not be affected. Just like in India the temperature is sometimes 120, during... [break] ...season. Does it mean people will stop all their work? Or in your country, in the Western country, the winter is so strong that sometimes below zero, 30 degree. Does it mean that all of his work, everything, will be stopped? No, you have to do your duty. Similarly, although Arjuna is advised, "Although you are killing -- little pains that you have to kill your own men -- so that is coming and going. You have to do your duty because it is real fight. This fight is under My guidance. You must fight. That is your duty. Don't be bothered of this matra-sparsah." Matra means the skin, touch. But people are after the skin disease. Just like sex life. What is the sex life? This is also another skin disease, itching of the skin, and you satisfy by rubbing it. That's all. Therefore in the sastra it is advised, visaheta dhirah. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Grhamedhi. These rascals who are very much attached to so-called family life, grhamedhi... Grhastha is different. Grhastha means he knows everything. But he is not so advanced, but he wants to live with wife and children, but for Krsna consciousness. That is grhastha. And those who are not Krsna conscious, simply living like animals and has got children and wife, they are animals; they are grhamedhi. The grhastha means he is making the best use of a bad bargain. And the grhamedhi means he is animal. Therefore this is spoken about the grhamedhi. Mostly people now, they are showing that "I am very beautiful man," showing family, but he is-called grhamedhi. So what is the happiness of the grhamedhi? Yan maithunadi, that sex pleasure, that's all. Otherwise they have no other happiness, working day and night like ass. The only hope is, at night they will enjoy sex. That's all. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi. What is that sex? That itching.

Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14]. That itching sensation. Therefore sastra says that "Tolerate that itching. Don't be implicated with this repetition of birth and death." First thing, brahmacari -- "Tolerate this itching. You'll avoid so much displeasure, so much unhappiness of life. Be careful." That is brahmacari life. Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya It is simply itching, satisfying the itching sensation, little happiness. What is that happiness? Just like there is itching in your body. If you itch it, you feel some pleasure. It is like that. So visaheta dhirah. Dhira, one who is sober, one is advanced, he will little tolerate that itching sensation and be happy because this is not my necessity. This is only of the skin. This is my skin disease. Now I am not the skin. I am soul. My duty is how to serve Krsna.

Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.14 -- London, August 20, 1973

"Our Real Business"

74/06/21 Germany, Bhagavad-gita 2.14


Prabhupada: ...anityas tams titiksasva bharata [Bg. 2.14]. In the previous verse, it has been described that dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara: [Bg. 2.13] "We are transmigrating from one body to another. Exactly like we are passing from a child body to a boy's body, a boy's body to youth body, similarly, we are passing through this body also and accepting another body." Now, the question of distress and happiness. Distress and happiness -- according to the body. A very rich man is situated little comfortably. The common distress and unhappiness, er, happiness, that is common. What is that common? Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. To take birth either as a dog or as a king, the distress is the same. There is no difference because the dog has to keep itself within the womb of the mother in an airtight condition for so many months, and the man, either he is king or anything, he has also undergo that tribulation. There is no excuse. Because you are taking birth in a king's family, it does not mean that to remain compact within the mother's womb the distress is less, and because he is taking birth in a dog's mother's womb, therefore his is great. No. That is the same. Similarly, at the time of death, the distress... At the time of death there is great distress. It is so strong that one has to leave this body. Just like when the distress becomes very strong, one commits suicide. He cannot tolerate: "Finish this body."

So nobody wants to leave this body, but the distress is so strong that one is forced to leave this body. That is called death. In the Bhagavad-gita you will find that mrtyuh sarva-haras ca aham. Krsna says that "I am death." And what is the meaning of death? Death means "I take everything from him. Finished. I take his body, I take his association, I take his country, I take his society, I take his bank balance, and everything finished." Sarva-harah. Sarva means everything. Everyone is trying to accumulated big bank balance and big house, big family, big motorcar... But with the death, everything is finished. So that is great distress. Sometimes one cries. You will find at the time of death, in coma, his eye drops are coming out. He is thinking, "I made so many things so nicely to live comfortably, and now I am losing everything." Great distress. I know one friend in Allahabad. He was very rich man. So he was only fifty-four years old. So he was requesting, crying, doctor, "Doctor, can you give me at least four years to live? I had a plan. I wanted to finish it." What the doctor can do? "That is not possible, sir. You must get out." But these foolish people, they do not know. But we have to tolerate. We have to tolerate. That is advised here, that "Because you have got this material body, you have to tolerate, to live within the womb of the mother." Then come out. Then I cannot speak. Suppose I am a little baby, and some worm is biting me. I cannot say "Mother" -- because at time I cannot speak -- "something is biting on my back." I am crying, and mother is thinking that "The child is hungry. Give him milk." (laughter) Just see how much this... I want something, and I am given something else. That is a fact. Why the child is crying? He is feeling uncomfortable. Then, in this way, I grow. Then I do not want to go to school. I am forced to go to school. Yes. At least, I was like that. (laughter) I never wanted to go to school. And my father was very kind. "So all right. Why you are not going to school?" I would say, "I will go tomorrow." "All right." But my mother was very careful. Perhaps if my mother would not have been little strict, I would not have gotten any education. My father was very lenient. So she used to force me. One man would take me to school. Actually, children do not want to go to school. They want to play. Against the will of the children, he has to go to school. Then there is examination, not only going to school.

So you study the life. From the beginning of this body within the womb of the mother, it is simply troublesome. Against my will so many distresses are there, so many distresses there. Then as you grow, the distress grow, grow. Distress is not diminished. Then janma, then old age, then disease. So long you have got this body... The so-called scientists, they are manufacturing very effective medicine, discovery, new discovery. Just..., what is called? Streptomycin? So many things. But they cannot stop disease. That is not possible, sir. You can manufacture so many high-class medicines to cure disease. That will not cure. Temporary relief. But no scientist has discovered any medicine that "You take this medicine and no more disease." That is not possible. "You take this medicine, no more death." That is not possible. Therefore those who are intelligent, they know it very well that this place is duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. That is described in the Bhagavad-gita. It is a place for distress. So long you remain here... But we are so fools, we cannot realize. We accept, "This life is very pleasant. Let me enjoy it." It is not pleasant at all, seasonal changes, always. This distress or that distress, this disease or that disease. This uncomfortable, this anxiety. There are three kinds of distresses: adhyatmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. Adhyatmika means distresses pertaining to this body and the mind. And adhidaivika means distresses offered by material nature. Nature. All of a sudden there is earthquake. All of a sudden there is famine, there is scarcity of food, there is over rain, no rain, extreme heat, extreme winter, extreme cold. We have to go under these distresses, threefold. At least one, two, must be there. Still, we do not realize that "This place is full of distress because I have got this material body."

Therefore a sane man's duty is how to stop the process of accepting this material body. This is intelligence. He should realize that "I am always in distresses, and I am not this body, but I am put into this body. Therefore right conclusion is that I am not this body. If, somehow or other, I can live without this body, then my distresses are over. This is common sense. That is possible. Therefore Krsna comes. Therefore God comes, to give you the information that "You are not this body. You are the soul, spirit soul. And because you are within this body, you are suffering so many distresses." Therefore Krsna advises that "These distresses are due to this body." Try to understand. Why you are feeling pains and pleasure? It is due to the body.

Therefore Buddha philosophy is also same thing, that you finish this body, nirvana, nirvana. Nirvana means... Their philosophy is that your feeling of pains and pleasure, it is due to this body. They also accept. Now what is this body? This body is combination of matter. Combination of earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind, intelligence, ego -- eight material elements, five gross and three subtle. This body is made of that. So the Buddha philosophy is that you dismantle this body, nirvana. Just like this house is made of stone, brick and wood and so many. So you break it, and there is no more stone and no more brick. This is distributed to the earth. Throw it on the earth. Then there is no house. Similarly, if you become zero, no body, then you are free from pains and pleasure. This is their philosophy, nirvana philosophy, sunyavadi: "Make it zero." But that is not possible. That is not possible. You cannot... Because you are spirit soul... That will be explained. You are eternal. You cannot be zero. That will be explained, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20], that we are giving up this body, but immediately I have to accept another body, immediately. Then where is your question of dismantling? By nature's way you will get another body. Because you want to enjoy, you have come here in this material world. There is no question of asking. Everyone knows that "I am in this material world. I must enjoy to the fullest extent." One who is unaware of the fact that "I am going to take another life," he is thinking, "This is a combination of this matter -- earth, water, air, fire. So when it will be broken, then everything will be finished. So so long I have got this opportunity, let me enjoy to the fullest extent." This is called material mentality, atheist, atheist, who does not know that we are eternal soul, we are changing body only. The atheists think that after finishing...

Here in the Western country, big, big professor, they are also under the same impression, that when the body is finished, everything is finished. No. That is not. Therefore that is the beginning of instruction. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. You are changing different bodies. By finishing the body, you are not finished. You are not finished. We can understand with little thinking that in this body I am..., even in this life. At night I get another body. I dream. I dream there is tiger. I go to the forest, and there is a tiger, and it is coming to kill me. Then I am crying, and actually I am crying. Or, in other way, I have gone to some beloved, man and woman. We are embracing, but the bodily action is going on. Otherwise why I am crying? And why there is discharge of semina? So people do not know that I am leaving this gross body, but I am entering into subtle body. Subtle body is there, not question of inside. We are packed up. Just like this body is packed up with shirt and coat, so the coat is the gross body, and the shirt is the subtle body. So when this gross body is resting, the subtle body is working. The subtle body is there. The foolish men, they cannot understand that "I am compact in some body, either subtle body or gross body." One who is too sinful, very much sinful, he does not get the gross body. He remains in the subtle body, and that is called ghost. You have heard. Some of you might have seen. There is ghost. Ghost means he doesn't get. He is so sinful that he is condemned to remain in the subtle body. He does not get the gross body. Therefore, according to Vedic system, there is sraddha ceremony. If the father or relative has not gotten the gross body, by that ceremony he is allowed to accept a gross body. That is the Vedic system.

So anyway, we can understand that "I am sometimes in this gross body, and I am sometimes in the subtle body. So I am there, either in the gross body or in the subtle body. So I am eternal. But when I work with the subtle body, I forget this gross body. And when I work with this gross body, I forget this subtle body. So either I accept the gross body or subtle body, I am eternal. I am eternal. Now the problem is how to avoid this gross body and subtle body. That is problem. That means when you remain in your original body, means spiritual body, and do not come to this gross or subtle body, that is your eternal life. That is... We have to achieve. This human life is a gift by the nature or by God. Now you realize that you are changing your different condition, distress and happiness, being forced to accept some kind of gross and subtle body. That is the cause of your pains and pleasure. And if you get out of this gross and subtle body, remain in your original, spiritual body, then you are free from these pains and pleasure. That is called mukti. Mukti. There is a Sanskrit word. Mukti means liberation, no more gross body, no more subtle body. But you remain in your own original spiritual body. This is called mukti. Mukti means... It is described in the Bhagavatam, muktir hitva anyatha rupam sva-rupena vyavasthitih. That is called mukti. Anyatha rupam. Anyatha rupam means in otherwise, staying or living in otherwise. Otherwise means that I am spirit soul. I have got spiritual body. But some way or other, circumstantially, on account of my desire, I get sometimes human body and sometimes dog's body, sometimes cat's body, sometimes tree's body, sometimes demigod's body. There are different, 8,400,000 different forms of body. So I am changing according to my desire. And according to my infection, karanam guna-sangah asya, and according to my... These are the subtle things. That is the real knowledge of human being, not to invent something for temporary happiness. That is foolishness. That is foolishness, wasting time. If we invent something for the comforts of this present body and I shall live very comfortably, but "You will not be allowed, sir, to live comfortably." First of all you know it. Suppose a man is constructing very nice house, very strong house. It will never fall down in any circumstances. But that's all right, but what you have done for yourself that you will never die so that you will enjoy this? "No. Let it be. Let me have a very strong-built house." So house remains. You go there. Strong-built nation. Just like Napoleon constructed strong-built arches, but where he has gone, nobody knows. So therefore Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, sings, jada-bidya jato mayara vaibhava tomara bhajane badha. The more we advance in so-called material happiness or material advancement, the more we forget our real identity. This is the result.

So we should understand that we have got a separate business, real business. That is called self-realization, that "I am not this body." This is self-realization. That is being instructed by Krsna in the beginning, that "You are not this body." The first understanding, first knowledge, is to understand that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul. I have got a different business." It is not that this temporary actions or activities like as a dog, or as a human being, or as a tiger or as a tree or as a fish, there are activities. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam ca. The same principle of bodily necessities. Eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. But in the human form of life, I have got a separate business, self-realization, to get out of this bodily entanglement. And that is called knowledge. Without this knowledge, anything we are advancing in knowledge, that is foolishness, that's all. Srama eva hi kevalam. Srama eva hi kevalam. Srama eva hi kevalam means simply working uselessly and wasting time. You cannot check the nature's law. Suppose in this life you are very big leader, prime minister, and everything. That's all right, but according to your mentality, you are creating next life. So in this life you remain a prime minister, and in next life you become a dog. Then where is the benefit? There is not... Therefore these atheist fools, they want to deny next life. That is very horrible for them. That is very horrible to them. If they accept next life... They know their life is very sinful. Then what life they are going to get by the laws of nature? When they think of it, they shudder. "Better deny it. Better deny it." Just like a rabbit. Enemy is in his front, and he is going to die, but the thinks, "Let me close my eyes. I am out of danger." This is atheistic view, that they are trying to forget that there is... Therefore they deny, "There is no life." Why not? Krsna says that "You had a childhood body. You had a baby... Now you have... Where is that body? You have left that. You are in different body. Similarly, this body you'll change. You will get another body." And who says? Krsna says. The most superior authority, he says. I may not understand, but when He says... This is the process of our knowledge. We accept knowledge from the perfect person. I may be fool, but the knowledge received from the perfect person is perfect. This is our process. We don't try to speculate. That may or may not be successful, but if you accept knowledge from the perfect authority, that knowledge is perfect. Just like we are speculating, "Who is my father?" You can speculate who is your father, but that speculation will not help you. You will never understand who is your father. But you go to your mother, the supreme authority. She'll immediately, "Here is your father." That's all. And you cannot know father in any other way. There is no other way. This is practical. You cannot know your father without the authoritative statement of your mother. Similarly, things which are beyond your perception, avan manasa-gocara, you cannot think of, you cannot speak of. Sometimes they say, "God cannot be spoken. God cannot be thought of." That is all right. But if God Himself comes before you and says, "Here I am," then where is the difficulty? Where is the difficulty? I am imperfect. I cannot know. That's all right. But if God Himself comes before me...

So this Krsna consciousness movement is to know everything perfectly from the supreme authority, Krsna. This is the process. Tad vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. In order to understand subject matter which is beyond our perception, you have to approach such authority who can inform you. Exactly in the same way: to understand who is my father is beyond my perception, beyond my speculation, but if I accept the authoritative statement of my mother, this is perfect knowledge. So there are three kinds of processes to understand or to advance in knowledge. One is direct perception, pratyaksa. And the other is authority, and the other is sruti. Sruti means by hearing from the Supreme. So our process is sruti. Sruti means we hear from the highest authority. That is our process, and that is very easy. Highest authority, if He is not in default... Ordinary persons, they are in default. They have got imperfection. The first imperfection is: the ordinary man, they commit mistake. Any great man of the world, you have seen, they commit mistake. And they are illusioned. They accept something as reality which is not reality. Just like we accept this body as reality. This is called illusion. But it is not reality. "I am soul." That is reality. So this is called illusion. And then, with this illusory knowledge, imperfect knowledge, we become teacher. That is another cheating. If you have not... They say, all these scientists and philosophers, "Perhaps," "It may be." So where is your knowledge? "It may be" and "perhaps." Why you are taking the post of a teacher? "In future we shall understand." And what is this future? Would you accept a post-dated check? "In future I shall discover, and therefore I am scientist." What is this scientist? And, above all, our imperfectness of senses. Just like we are seeing one another because there is light. If there is no light, then what is the power of my seeing? But these rascals they do not understand that they are always defective, and still, they are writing books of knowledge. What is your knowledge? We must take knowledge from the perfect person.

Therefore we are taking knowledge from Krsna, the Supreme Person, the perfect person. And He is advising that if you want to stop your pains and pleasure, then you must make some arrangement not to accept this material body. That He is advising, Krsna, how to avoid this material body. That has been explained. This is Second Chapter. In the Fourth Chapter Krsna has said that janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. You simply try to understand the activities of Krsna. These activities of Krsna is there in the history, in the Mahabharata. Mahabharata means greater India or greater Bharata, Mahabharata, the history. In that history this Bhagavad-gita is also there. So He is speaking about Himself. You try to understand Krsna. This is our Krsna consciousness movement. Simply try to understand Krsna, His activities. He is not impersonal. Janma karma me divyam. Karma means activities. He has activities. Why He is taking part in this world, activities? Why He comes?

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham
[Bg. 4.7]

He has got some purpose; He has got some mission. So try to understand Krsna and His mission and His activities. They are described in a historical form. So where is the difficulty? We read so many things, history or the activities of some leader, some politician. The same thing, same energy, you apply for understanding Krsna. Where is the difficulty? Krsna, therefore, He manifests Himself with so many activities because you can understand Krsna's activities. And if you can understand Krsna's ac... (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.14 -- Germany, June 21, 1974

"Hear From The Authority -- Krsna"

72/09/08 Pittsburgh, Bhagavad-gita 2.13



Prabhupada: So what is the program?

Visnujana: If you like...

Prabhupada: Where is Pradyumna? Yes. Read dehino 'smin yatha dehe from Bhagavad-gita [Bg. 2.13]. Hare Krsna.

Pradyumna: I should do om namo bhagavate vasudevaya?

Prabhupada: Hm.

Pradyumna: (leads chanting)

Prabhupada: That's all. Give me my spectacles.

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

This is the problem at the present moment. People are not educated about the vital force of this body. Here in the Bhagavad-gita, it is explained, dehi. Dehi means the proprietor of this body. Both we all, not only we human being, but also lower than human being, all living entities... There are 8,400,000 forms of living entities. They are called dehi. Dehi means the proprietor of the body. The dog, the cat, the human being, the president, or higher or lower, there are different species of life. Everyone is the proprietor of the body. That we can experience. You know everything about the pains and pleasures of your body. I know what are the pains and pleasures of the body. So this body has been given to us by material nature as our field of activities. With different bodies, we are acting differently. Not that your activities and my activities are the same. The dog's activities and the man's activities are different because the dog has got a different type of body and I have got a different type of body. Every one of us. So dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. The dehi, the living entity or the vital force, is within this body.

So the body is changing. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. Kaumaram means boyhood. Yauvanam means youthhood, and jara means old age, aged body. So I can remember, I am an old man, I can remember, I had a boy's body, I had a young man's body. Now I have got this aged body. So although the boyhood body, the youthhood body are no longer existing, but I am existing. That's a fact. Everyone can understand. He has got past, present, and future. You are all young boys and girls present here. So you had your past body as boyhood, childhood. Similarly, you have got your future body. That is awaiting. I have got it, you are awaiting. So past, future, past, present, and future, relatively we can understand in any condition of life. Therefore the conclusion is that when this aged body as I have got now... I am seventy-seven years old. So when this body will be finished, I'll get another body. As I have got consecutively from boyhood to childhood, childhood, I have, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, aged body, so why not next body? This is simple truth, that the living entity, or the soul, is transmigrating from one body to another. This is the basic principle of spiritual understanding. The vital force of the body is the spirit soul. It is not a mechanical arrangement of matter. The modern so-called scientists, they think that the body is combination of matter and, at a certain stage, these combination of matter develop living symptoms. But that is not a fact. If it is a fact, then the scientists can manufacture with chemicals a living body. But a scientist even up to date is unable to manufacture even a body like an ant, and what to speak of other, bigger animals.

So we have to take this knowledge from authority. Here is Krsna speaking. He's authority. We accept Krsna: the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His knowledge is perfect. He knows past, present, and future. Therefore, He is teaching Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, the spirit soul within this body is eternal." That's a fact. Just like I can understand, I was in the past, I am in present, so I must be in the future. These are three phases of time, past, present, and future. In another place, we read in this Bhagavad-gita, na jayate na mriyate va kadacit. The living entity is never born; neither it dies. Na jayate means he never takes birth. Na jayate na mriyate, it never dies. Nityam sasvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. It is eternal, sasvata, existing forever. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. By annihilation of this body, the soul does not die.

Because... This is also confirmed in the Upanisads, Vedas: nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam eko bahunam vidadhati kaman. The God is also eternal, and we are also eternal. We are part and parcels of God. Just like gold and fragments of gold; both of them are gold. Although I am fragment, a particle of gold or the spirit, still, I am spirit. So we get this information that both God and we, living entities, we are eternal. Nityo nityanam, nitya means eternal.

So two words are there. One is singular number, nitya, eternal, and the other is plural number, nityanam. So we are plural number. Plural number eternals. We do not know what is the numerical strength of the living entities. They are described as asankhya. Asankhya means without any counting capacity. Millions and trillions. Then what is the difference between this singular number and the plural number? The plural number is dependent on the singular number. Eko bahunam vidadhati kaman. The singular number eternal is giving all the necessities of life to the plural number, we living entities. That's a fact, we can examine by our intelligence. Out of 8,400,000 different forms of life, we civilized human beings are very few. But others, their number is very great. Just like in the water. Jalaja nava-laksani. There are 900,000 species of life within the water. Sthavara laksa-vimsati; and 2,000,000 different forms of life in the vegetable kingdom, plants and trees. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati, krmayo rudra-sankhyayah. And the insects, they are 110,000 different species of form. Krmayo rudra-sankhyayah paksinam dasa-laksanam. And birds, they are 1,000,000 species of forms. Then beasts, pasavas trimsa-laksani, 3,000,000 types of animals, four-legged. And catur-laksani manusah, and the human being the forms are 400,000. Out of them, most of them are uncivilized.

So we civilized human beings -- never mind American or Indian or German or Englishman, it doesn't matter -- we are very few. So we have got economic problems. We are trying for developing our economic condition. What is that economic condition? Eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. We are busy always, but the animals are also busy for eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, but they have no problem. We have got problems. So just try to understand, if the major portion of the living entities have no problem... Their necessities of life are being supplied by the supreme eternal, God. Just like an elephant. There are millions of elephants in African jungle. They eat at a time fifty kilos. But they're getting their food. Similarly, a small ant, it requires a grain of sugar. So he's also getting his food. So the supreme eternal has arranged food, or the economic problems are solved by nature. They do not do any business, they do not go to school or colleges to learn technology, to earn livelihood, but they are being supplied. They are healthy. There is no disease.

So our advancement of civilization means we have created problems. That's all. This is our advancement of civilization, and we do not know what is the formation of the soul, how it is transmigrating from one body to another, what is the next life, whether we are getting next life a human being or better than human being, or lower than human being. And if it so, how we are getting that form of life next? Because we are eternal, we are changing this body. Neither we do know there are two kinds of bodies: the gross body and the subtle body. This gross body is made of earth, water, fire, air, ether; and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and ego. Within the subtle body, the soul is there. Now, when this gross body becomes useless or unworkable, then the subtle body carries me to another gross body. This is called transmigration of the soul. But we do not see the subtle body. Every one of us, we know that we, we have got mind, but we cannot see the mind. Neither we can see intelligence, neither I can see what is my ego. But they are existing. So it is not necessary that everything you have to see with your blunt eyes. The eyes, they are not perfect. Just like the other side of this hall is dark, I cannot see you. Although I have got the eyes. So even though we have got eyes, it is very imperfect. It cannot see in all circumstances. Under certain circumstances, we can see. Therefore we should not believe simply by seeing. But one thing, although I cannot see you, you can hear me, or I can understand that you are hearing. The ears are stronger than the eyes. So things which is beyond our experience, we can hear about. Even though we cannot see, it does not mean there is no existence of things. The same example: even though I cannot see what is mind, what is intelligence, what is ego, but I can hear about it. Therefore perfect knowledge is acquired by hearing. So we accept knowledge, perfect knowledge, by hearing. Another example: suppose a man is sleeping. At that time, if somebody is coming to kill him, he's sleeping, he does not know. But if some of his friend warns him, "My dear Mr. Such-and-such, somebody is coming to kill you. Wake up!" he can hear, and he can wake up and take precaution. Therefore, when our other senses cannot work, our ear is very strong. Therefore it is recommended that you try to hear from the authoritative person. That is also... Educational system is also like that. Why do you come to university, school, and college? To hear from an experienced professor. He knows, and you acquire the knowledge by hearing.

So the process of hearing is very important. So our this Krsna consciousness movement is to propagate that "You hear from the authority, Krsna." Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is accepted in the present age and in the past age. In the past age, great sages like Narada, Vyasa, Asita, Devala, very, very great stalwart scholars and sages, they accepted. In the Middle Age, say 1,500 years ago, all the acaryas like Sankaracarya, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Nimbarka... Practically, Indian Vedic civilization, it is still existing on the authority of these acaryas. And it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gita: acaryopasanam. If you want to learn factually things, then you should approach acarya. Acaryavan puruso veda, "One who has accepted acarya, he knows things as they are." Acaryavan puruso veda. So we are receiving knowledge through the acaryas. Krsna spoke to Arjuna, Arjuna spoke to Vyasadeva. Arjuna actually did not speak to Vyasadeva, but Vyasadeva heard it, Krsna speaking, and he noted down in his book Mahabharata. This Bhagavad-gita is found in Mahabharata. So we accept the authorities of Vyasa. And from Vyasa, Madhvacarya; from Madhvacarya, so many disciplic succession, up to Madhavendra Puri. Then Madhavendra Puri to Isvara Puri; from Isvara Puri to Lord Caitanyadeva; from Lord Caitanyadeva to six Gosvamis; from six Gosvamis to Krsnadasa Kaviraja; from him, Srinivasa Acarya; from him, Visvanatha Cakravarti; from him, Jagannatha dasa Babaji; then Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji; Bhaktivinoda Thakura; my spiritual master. The same thing, we are preaching. That is Krsna consciousness movement. It is nothing new. It is coming down from the original speaker, Krsna, by disciplic succession. So we are reading this Bhagavad-gita. Not that I have manufactured some book and I am preaching. No. I am preaching Bhagavad-gita. The same Bhagavad-gita as it was first spoken forty millions of years ago to the sun-god and again it was repeated five thousand years ago to Arjuna. The same thing is coming down by disciplic succession, and the same thing is presented before you. There is no change.

So the authority says,

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

So we request simply people that you accept this authoritative knowledge and try to assimilate it by your intelligence. It is not that you stop your argument and intelligence, simply blindly accept something. No. We are human beings, we have got intelligence. We are not animals that we shall be forced to accept something. No. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34]. In this Bhagavad-gita you'll find. You try to understand, tad viddhi. Viddhi means try to understand. Pranipata. Pranipatena means surrendering, not by challenge. A student should be very submissive to the spiritual master. Otherwise, he will be, I mean to say, bewildered. Submissive reception. Our process is...

tasmad gurum prapadyeta
jijnasuh sreya uttamam
sabde pare ca nisnatam
brahmany upasamasrayam
[SB 11.3.21]

This is the injunction, Vedic. If you want to know things which is beyond your conception, beyond your sense perception, then you must approach a bona fide spiritual master. What is the symptom of bona fide spiritual master? Everyone wants to become spiritual master. So that is also stated. Sabde pare ca nisnatam. One who has taken complete bath in the ocean of the Vedic literature, sabde pare ca nisnatam. Just like if you take bath, you become refreshed. If you take nice bath, you feel refreshed. Sabde pare ca nisnatam. Without refreshness, one cannot understand this sublime subject matter. And the guru, or the spiritual master, should be refreshed by taking bath in the ocean of Vedic knowledge. And what is the result? Sabde pare ca nisnatam brahmany upasamasrayam. By, after such cleanliness, he has taken shelter of the Supreme Absolute Truth, without any material desires. He has no more any material desires; he's simply interested in Krsna, or the Absolute Truth. These are the symptoms of guru, or spiritual master.

So in order to understand... Just like Krsna is teaching Arjuna. Before this, Krsna surrendered himself. Sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Although they were friends, Krsna and Arjuna were friends... First of all, they were talking like friends, and Arjuna was arguing with Krsna. This argument has no value because if I am imperfect, what is the meaning of my argument? Whatever I shall argue, that is also imperfect. So what is the use of wasting time by imperfect argument? This is not process. The process is that we must approach to a perfect person and take his instruction as it is. Then our knowledge is perfect. Without any argument. We accept Vedic knowledge like that. For example, just like stool of an animal. It is stated in the Vedic literature that it is impure. If you touch stool... According to Vedic system, even after passing my own stool, evacuating, I have to take bath. And what to speak of others' stool. That is the system. So stool is impure. One, after touching stool, he must take bath. This is Vedic injunction. But in another place it is said that the stool of the cow is pure, and if cow dung is applied in some impure place, it will be pure. Now, by your argument, you can say that "The stool of an animal is impure. Why it is said in one place pure and in another place impure? This is contradiction." But this is not contradiction. You practically make experiment. You take cow dung and apply anywhere, you'll find it is pure. Immediately purified. So this is Vedic injunction. They are perfect knowledge. We... Instead of wasting time arguing and putting forward false prestige, if you simply accept the perfect knowledge, as they are stated in the Vedic literature, then we get perfect knowledge and our life is success. Instead of making experiment on the body to find out where is the soul... The soul is there, but it is so small that it is not possible to see by your these blunt eyes. Any microscope or any machine, because it is stated it is one ten-thousandth part of the top of the tip of the hair. So there is no machine. You cannot see. But it is there. Otherwise, how we can find distinction between the dead body and the living body?

So here, the perfect knowledge is spoken by Krsna:

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

Dehinah, of the living soul, the body is changing. Similarly, after death, after so-called death... Because there is no death. After stoppage of the function of this gross body, the soul is transferred to another gross body. This statement we get from Bhagavad-gita. And if we accept this statement, "This is fact," then our spiritual life immediately begins. Without this understanding, there is no question of spiritual understanding. Everything vague, simply mental speculation, "maybe," "perhaps." These theories are being forwarded by so-called scientists and philosophers. But we don't accept such things as "perhaps," "maybe." No. We accept what is fact. It is not a question of belief; it is a question of fact. So this is the fact.

Now, how the soul is transmigrating? Suppose after this life, I get better life, that's nice. But if I get lower life, then what is the condition? Suppose next life I get the life of a cat or dog or cow. Suppose you get again birth in America. But if you change your body, then whole circumstances change. As human being, you are given all protection by the state, but as soon as you become another body, either tree or animals, the treatment is different. Animal is going to the slaughterhouse; trees are being cut out. There is no protest. So this is the condition of material life. Sometimes we are getting better condition of life, sometimes we are getting lower condition of life. There is no guarantee. That will depend on my work. That is practical. In this life also, if you become educated, then your future is very nice. If you are not educated, then your future is not so bright. Similarly, this human form of life, we can make a solution of this repeated birth and death. And that is the only business of human form of life, how to get out of these material conditions of life: birth, death, old age, and disease. We can make solution. And that solution is Krsna consciousness. As soon as we become Krsna conscious... Krsna conscious means Krsna, the Supreme, He, Lord, God. We are part and parcel of Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness. Simply to understand that... Just like you understand your father, and your brothers and yourself. You are all sons of the father. So it is not difficult to understand. As father maintains the whole family, similarly, Krsna, the Supreme Lord, or God, He has many innumerable sons, living entities, and He is maintaining the whole body, whole family. What is the difficulty? Then next duty is to become developed consciousness. Just like a good son, when he feels that "Father has done so much for me. I must repay it, or at least I must accept obligation what my father has done for me," this much feeling is called Krsna consciousness. So to become Krsna conscious, we require to understand three things only:

bhoktaram yajna-tapasam
sarva-loka-mahesvaram
suhrdam sarva-bhutanam
jnatva mam santim rcchati
[Bg. 5.29]

Every one of us is trying to be happy, satisfied. That is the struggle for existence. But if we understand these three principles, that God is the supreme father, God is the supreme proprietor, God is the supreme friend, these three things, if you understand, then you become peaceful immediately. Immediately. You are seeking friends to get help, so many. But if we simply accept God, Krsna, as my friend, supreme friend, your friendship problem is solved. Similarly, if we accept God as the supreme proprietor, then our other problem is solved. Because we are falsely claiming proprietorship of things which belong to God. By falsely claiming that "This land, this land of America, belongs to the Americans; the land of Africa belongs to the Africans." No. Every land belongs to God. We are different sons of God in different dresses. We have got right to enjoy the property of father, God, without infringing others' right. Just like in family, we live, so many brothers. So whatever father, mother gives us to eat we eat. We don't encroach upon others' plate. That is not civilized family. Similarly, if we become God conscious, Krsna conscious, then the whole problems of the world -- sociology, religion, economic development, politics -- everything will be solved. That's a fact.

Therefore we are trying to spread this Krsna consciousness movement for total benefit of the human society. We request the intelligent persons, especially the student community, to join this movement, to try to understand scientifically what is this movement. We have got many books, at least two dozen books, big, big, voluminous. So you can read them, you can try to understand this movement, and join with us.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna.

Visnujana: Srila Prabhupada, there's a seat for you here, you can watch. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- Pittsburgh, September 8, 1972

"Disturbed Mind Is Due To Ignorance"

66/03/11 New York, Bhagavad-gita 2.13


Prabhupada: This is thirteenth sloka. You can open it. The Sanskrit word is

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

Student: This is thirteenth?

Prabhupada: Thirteen, yes.

Student: "Just as boyhood, youth and old age are attributed to the soul through this body, he, the soul, obtains another body. The wise man does not get deluded about this."

Prabhupada: Yes. Now, the wise man, the word, Sanskrit word, is dhira. Dhira means that one who is undisturbed in mind. And our disturbance of the mind is due to our ignorance. Suppose I want to go somewhere. Now I am in the station. Actually, it so happened when I came to New York first from India. I was to be dispatched to Butler by the bus station, but I was a new man. I did not know the rules and regulation. Of course, somebody was guiding me. Still, I was very much in disturbed condition, how to get on the bus, how to get the ticket, how... All these. So disturbance of mind is due to our ignorance. (someone enters) Yes. Come in. Yes. So disturbance of mind is due to our ignorance. So here, a very nice word. (aside:) You can come here. All right. Here a very nice word is used: dhira. Dhira. Dhira means undisturbed. Undisturbed. So this we should, we should carefully note, that our mind in the material condition is always disturbed, always disturbed. And this is due to our unfavorable condition.

Because we are actually spirit in identity and we have been put into material conditions. We can very well experience. And we have, I got experience, and here is Captain Pandia. He has also experienced. He may be more than experienced than me. When we passed through the sea on the ship, although we are on the sea, quite safe, still, when there is some storm, when there is some disturbance on the ocean, we also become very much disturbed, because that situation is foreign to us. We are not so much disturbed in the land as we are disturbed in the ocean because we know that our position in the ocean is not our natural condition. So we should know that disturbance is due to our unnatural condition. Otherwise, there is no question of disturbance.

So whole disturbance of mind... It is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,

tat sadhu manye 'sura-varya dehinam
sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat
hitvatma-patam grham andha-kupam
vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta
[SB 7.5.5]

The... This is a verse in connection with talks between Maharaja Prahlada and his father, Hiranyakasipu. His father was gross materialist, Hiranyakasipu. Hiranya means gold, and kasipu means soft bed. So materialists, they are concerned with gold and soft bed for enjoyment. You see? So his name was Hiranyakasipu. And the Prahlada, his son... Prahlada means prakrsta-rupena ahlada. Ahlada means pleasure. He's always full of pleasure. He has nothing to do with material... Because material pleasure cannot give us pleasure. It is our mistake. But because we have no information of the spiritual pleasure and because we are conditioned by this material body, therefore we seek pleasure through matter. Now we have to raise ourself from this position. Then we can get unlimited pleasure. We want pleasure, but we do not want such pleasure which ends. We want nonending pleasure. That is our heart's desire. But in material pleasure we cannot have that bliss. Even if you take a very good foodstuff, just delicious, still, after taking some portion of it, you will feel yourself satiated. Then that very foodstuff, you'll say, "No, no, I don't want any more." Because that ends. So that is not real pleasure. Real pleasure is defined: ananta. Ananta means that which has no end. So that pleasure you can have only when you are spiritually realized soul. That is possible. That is possible. We are reading all these scriptures, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, and there are so many Vedic literatures that if anyone wants to have spiritual life, there is complete facility. There is complete facility.

Now, this Prahlada... Prahlada was a boy, a child, not boy. He was only five years old. So his father called him, "My dear son, what you have learned from your teacher best? Please explain." So he is explaining this, that

tat sadhu manye 'sura-varya dehinam
sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat
hitvatma-patam grham andha-kupam
vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta
[SB 7.5.5]

"My dear father..." And his father was materialist. Therefore materialists are called in Sanskrit language, asura. Asura. There are two kinds of human being all the time: asura and deva. Deva. Deva means human beings who are connected with the Supreme Lord. Their life is for realization of the Supreme Truth. They are called deva. Just like in higher planets, there are also living beings. They are called devatas, demigods, because their magnitude of pleasure is far, far greater than ours. But because they do everything in relation with the Supreme Lord, therefore they are called devatas, devata. Devata means demigods. And asura. Asura means just the opposite. They simply enjoy life for the matter of sense pleasure. That's all. So those who are interested in sense pleasure, they are called asuras, and those who are interested, unending spiritual pleasure, they are called devatas. Devata and asura does not mean that asuras are very ugly and devatas are very beautiful. Even the ugly man can become a devata, or even a beautiful man may become asura. That is due to his mentality. Because, after all, the soul is pure. When he is in unnatural condition of life, wants to enjoy simply the material senses, he becomes asura. So asura can be turned into devata. There is no hindrance.

So Prahlada Maharaja... Just see. The father was asura, and the son was devata. So asura's son can be devata. And a devata's son can be asura. Just like in India. In India nowadays there is a great movement for removing the caste system because the higher caste, brahmanas, they are claiming, due to their birthright, higher position, and the others, they are in inconvenience: "Now, nowadays the brahmanas are doing the same thing, what we are doing, a sudra. Why he should claim?" So there is quarrel. You see? So devata and asura, the division is that, of course, the... Of course, according to our sastra, the brahmana family means devata family. But because nowadays they are descendants, they have deviated, deviated from the brahminical culture, they are not to be considered as devatas. That is also mentioned in the sastras. They are called brahma-bandhus. According to sastra, they are called brahma-bandhus. Brahma-bandhus means son of a brahmana but not the brahmana. Just like a son of high court justice. He can claim that "I am the son of a high court justice." That's all... But because he's the son of a high court justice, he cannot claim that "I am also the justice of the high court." So that consideration is there.

So asura, devata, there is no such formula that "In this line only the asuras will come, and in this line only the devatas will come." The asura can be converted into devata, and the devatas also can be converted into asuras, according to their action. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find that "This whole division of caste, that is created by Me." Maya srstam: "I have created." But how it is? Now, according to guna and karma, according to quality and according to his work. He never says, "According to birth." So just see. Now, here, Hiranyakasipu... Hiranyakasipu is asura, but his son is devata, Prahlada. Now, according to birthright, he should be also asura, but no. He is devata, Prahlada Maharaja. Prahlada Maharaja is counted one of the great pers..., twelve great personalities who can distribute transcendental knowledge. They are called mahajana. Mahajana.

Now, this Prahlada Maharaja, because he's mahajana, his statement should be accepted. So he's saying to his father, asura-varya: "My dear father, you are the greatest of the asuras." Asura-varya. Varya means greatest. So even if he is father, he addresses his father, asura-varya, asura. "Because your aim is simply sense pleasure." You see? So tat sadhu manye asura-varya dehinam. The father asked the son, "What you have learned, the best thing?" So he's also saying sincerely before his father the best thing that "My dear father, for the dehinam..." Here also the same thing, dehinam. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Dehinah. Dehinah means the spiritual spark who has accepted this material body. This material body is foreign. That will be explained. Just like your coat and shirt is foreign to your self. Similarly, this material body is foreign. So dehinam... Dehinam means one who has accepted this material body. So we are accepted, mean... "Accepted" means we have done something by which we have been forced to accept, forced to accept. Just like if we are put into the prison house, the prison house has got separate dress. So when you are put into the prison house, you have to keep aside your own household dress, and you have to take that particular dress. If you say, "No, no. I cannot accept this dress. I am a gentleman. I have got costly dress. I shall put on that," no, you must, forced. Similarly, we, we living entities, we are forced to accept different kind of dress. There are 8,400,000 kinds of dresses like this body. And your body, my body, you see? Now we are here, several ladies and gentlemen, but you'll find that nobody's body will be similar to the other's body. God's arrangement is so nice that everyone has got his particular body according to his work. It is so nice arrangement. You see. You'll find millions of persons, and everyone you'll find different from the other. You won't find two similar persons. You see? So dehinam. Because there are different kinds of mentality, not that all our mentality is one and the same. No, no. We are... And the law of nature is so finer that, according to the different kinds of mentality, they have got different kinds of bodies. So dehino 'smin.

So Prahlada Maharaja says that, tat sadhu manye 'sura-varya dehinam. Dehinam means "of those who have accepted this material body, for them." And what is their condition? Now, dehinam sada samudvigna-dhiyam. Dehinam, one who has accepted this material body, his conditional life is always full of anxiety. Not that, that we are always in want. Even in your duty. Just like our Captain saheb is here. I have seen in the ship he has got very serious duty in the ocean. He's always consulting the chart and the latitude, longitude, which side the ship is going. That is anxiety because so many lives, so many property, is under his control. Any, a slight mistake, would play havoc. We do not know. I was asking the Captain saheb, "Where you are going?" But I do not know. I see simply vast of water. But he has got responsibility. He knows the thing. So any responsible officer... Any responsible... Your President Johnson, he's also full of anxiety. I am also full of anxiety. You are also full of anxiety. Even a, a small bird, you'll find... You give a small bird some grains. You'll see like this: "Is there enemy? Somebody's coming. Somebody's killing me." So full of anxieties. This is the condition. This is the condition. So you cannot, you cannot be free from the anxiety, dehinah.

Prahlada Maharaja says, sada samudvigna-dhiyam. And why this anxiety? Now, asad-grahat. Asad-grahat: "Because he has accepted this temporary body." He is eternal. A living spirit is eternal, but he has been forced to accept this temporary body. This is my position. One should be conscious of his precarious position, that "I am eternal, but I am encaged in a temporary body which will not exist. However I may try to make it youthful by so many arrangement, but no..." The science cannot give you permanent life. That is not possible. You may be, may be proud of your scientific advancement of knowledge, but Bhagavad-gita says that four things... Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. "My dear sir, however you may make advancement in scientific knowledge, you cannot stop birth, you cannot stop death, you cannot stop old age, neither you can stop diseases." You see? So, so long we have got this body, so we must have anxieties. That is the law of nature. Now, here, here it is said that... Now let us finish that. Prahlada Maharaja said, sada samudvigna-dhiyam: "My dear father, for persons who have accepted this temporary material body and is full of anxiety always, for them, my idea is that they should give up this materialistic life and surrender unto Hari." Hari means Bhagavan, the Supreme Lord. That is the way of getting out of... And actually, this is so. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find in the last instruction to Arjuna is: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "This is the most confidential knowledge I am giving you because you are My friend and because I love you very much. Therefore this is My last word."

So we can get free from all anxieties as soon as we are surrendered to Hari. That is the whole system of spiritual knowledge. Aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatha kim. If you accept from the very beginning this principle, that "I must surrender unto the Supreme Lord," then there is no other necessity of prosecuting your spiritual knowledge. That is the final solution of life. Aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatha kim. Tapasya means penances, accepting penances for spiritual realization. Now, one who has accepted the worship of the Supreme Lord, he has no more anything to do for spiritual realization. He has realized. And naradhito yadi haris tapasa tatha kim. And undergoing so much severe penances, if one does not understand what is God, then whole thing is spoiled. Tapasa tatha kim. Whole penances is spoiled because he could not reach to the ultimate goal. So aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatha kim, naradhito yadi haris tapasa tatha kim. Antar-bahir yadi haris tapasa tatha kim. One who has achieved that knowledge, that he can see within himself and outside always the Supreme Lord, he has no more necessity of any penance. And after undergoing all sorts of penances, if I cannot realize that God is within me and God is without everywhere, then all my penances are spoiled. You see? These are very nice.

So here, here it is said that dhira, dhira.

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

Dehinah. Dehinah means "one who has accepted this material body." Asmin. Asmin means "in this world" or "in this life." Yatha, "as." Dehe. Dehe means "within this body." Because dehinah means "one who has accepted this body," and dehe, "within this body." So I am sitting within this body. Now, I am not this body. Just like you are within this shirt and coat, similarly, I am also within this body, this gross body and the subtle body. This gross body is made of this earth, water, and fire, air, and ether, this gross body, this our whole material body. Now, in this Earth, in this planet, earth is prominent. Anywhere, the body, material body, is made of these five elements: earth, water, fire, air and ether. These are the five ingredients. Just like this building. This whole building is made of earth, water and fire. You have taken some earth, and then you have made bricks and burnt into the fire, and after mixing the earth with water, you make a shape of brick, and then you put into the fire, and then when it is strong enough, then you set it just like a big building. So it is nothing but a display of earth, water and fire, simply. That's all. Similarly, our body is also made in that way: earth, water, fire, air and ether. Air... Air is passing, the breathing. You know. The air is always there. This, this outer skin is earth, and there is heat in the stomach. Without heat, you cannot digest anything. You see? As soon as the heat is diminished, your digesting power becomes bad. So many things. This is arrangement. Now, in this planet we have got this body which is where earth is very prominent. Similarly, in other planets, other planets, somewhere water is very prominent, somewhere fire is very prominent. In the sun planet, the bodies there... There are also living entities, but their body is so made that it is fiery. They can exist in the fire. They can exist in the fire. Similarly, Varunaloka, in the Venus, all these planets, they have got different types of body. Just like here you can experience that in the water the aquatics, they have got a different type of body. For years and years together there are aquatic animals, they are within the water. They are very comfortable. But the moment you'll drag it to the land, it dies. Similarly, you are very comfortable on the land, but the moment you are put into the water, you die. Because your body, bodily construction is different, his body, the bodily construction different, the bird's bodily... The bird, heavy bird, it can fly, but it is God's made flying instrument. But your man-made instrument, it crashes, crashes. You see? Because artificial.

So this is the arrangement. Every living being has got a particular type of body. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. And what is the nature of that body? Now, here the matter is being explained that how we change our body, how... But, but, but, because that is a difficult problem for us because we are engrossed with the idea of identifying this body with the soul. Now, the first A-B-C-D of spiritual knowledge is to understand that "I am not this body." Unless one is firmly convinced that "I am not this body," he cannot progress in the spiritual line. So the first lesson in the Bhagavad-gita is taken in that way. So here it is, that dehino 'smin. Now, dehi, the soul, soul. Dehi means soul. One who has accepted this body, material body, he's called dehi. So asmin, he is there. He is there, but his body is changing. You see? The body is changing.

Now, our body was formed in the womb of my mother. That is also described in the Srimad-Bhagavata, the physiology, physiology of this body. It is said there that according to our karma we are put through the semina of the father, injected into the womb of the mother. And the father's secretion and the mother's secretion, that is emulsified and takes the form of a pea, and that pea gradually develops. In three months, there are holes, nine holes: the eyes, ears, nose, and the..., just like we have got nine holes. And in seven months the whole body is complete. Then the child gets consciousness. And in ten months it is just ready to come out. So by air, the same air, forces the child to come out of the mother's connection. Because so long a child remains within the womb of the mother, she, she takes through the mother, so there is intestinal connection between the child and the mother. So after the child comes out, the intestinal connection is cut away and he becomes a separate identity. That is the law.

Now, the, our point is, as from the mother's womb, from the very beginning of our birth, as the body develops, develops, similarly, after coming out of the body, it also develops. But the spirit spark is there, the same. The body takes development. So... Now, that development -- from this small child, he becomes a bigger child, then he becomes a boy, then becomes a youth, then gradually a old man like me, and then gradually, when this body is no longer useful, then it is, it has to be given up and another body has to be taken -- this is the process of transmigration of soul. I think there is no difficulty to understand this simple process. Now, the soul is there, and the body's transforming every moment, every moment, imperceptibly. Just like if you have seen some, some your friend's child small, and after five years, you go to that friend's house and see the child: "Oh, you have grown so big? You have grown so big." But the father, mother cannot see. Because they are seeing daily, they do not see that "How my child is growing, daily," but a man who comes all of a sudden after five years, he says, "Oh, the child is grown up." So imperceptibly we are changing our body every moment. Every moment. That is also medical science, that we are changing our blood corpuscles every moment. You see? Similarly, what is the difficulty to understand that, that the soul transmigrates from one body to another? It is very nicely explained here. "As the owner of the body is there within the body, but the body is changing, one after another, one after another..." Dehino 'smin yatha dehe, kaumaram yauvanam [Bg. 2.13]. Here two examples are given: kaumaram... Kaumaram means the age up to fifteen years, the age up to fifteen years, that is called kaumara. And after fif..., from sixteen years, so upwards, say, up to forty years, one is youth. And then, after forty years, one becomes old. This is process of this body, but it will be later on explained the spirit soul within this body, that is not changing. The body is changing.

So dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra [Bg. 2.13]. Dhira means the man who is out of ignorance. (aside:) You are... You sit down. That's all right. Dhiras tatra na muhyati. Dhira means -- we began first explanation -- dhira means one who is, one who is out of ignorance. That means. So one who knows, one who knows the process of the body, changing every moment, then why he should lament when this body is left and another body is taken? Suppose if I throw away this covering of my body and take another covering, then what is there, lamentation? What is the cause of lamentation there? And one should be, rather, glad that the old garment is thrown away and one new garment is taken up. So this, this question... Because Arjuna was disturbed that "How can I fight with my grandfather? That is all right. That is my duty to fight, but how can I fight with my grandfather, Bhismadeva, with my teacher, Dronacarya? It is not possible." So he is playing the part of a fool, but he was not a fool, but just to teach us. Unless he becomes a fool like us, why this Bhagavad-gita will come?

The Bhagavad-gita... Just like it is play. Krsna is constant companion of Arjuna. So Arjuna cannot be put into that ignorance. It is for our benefit that by the will of the Lord Krsna, Arjuna is put into that sort of ignorance. So he is asking Krsna all these questions just like a foolish man, and Krsna is giving instruction so that it is being recorded in the history of Mahabharata for future generations. So here Arjuna, he was declining to fight, declining to fight, that "How can I fight with my grandfather?" You see? "He is respectable. He has brought me up since my father's death. And here is my teacher, Dronacarya. He has taught me this military art. Whatever I am warrior, my expertness is due to him. And do you think, Krsna, I shall kill them? No, I can fight with them. I can kill them, but it is not my duty." So Arjuna, and, says like that. But Krsna says, "No. You must be dutiful. Never mind who is that, your grandfather or your teacher. No. When there is fight... You are a ksatriya. A ksatriya should not be..., has no other consideration in the fight. He must fight."

So here is the thing, you see, that Krsna does not say that "You become a nonviolent." No. Never says that. When there is question of fighting for right cause, you must fight. There is no question of becoming nonviolent. You see? Now, now, he is saying that "Don't be aggrieved. Even your grandfather, Bhismadeva, even your Dronacarya..., it will be good for them because they are now old enough, and as soon as they are dead, they get a new body. So you should not be discouraged." Then one is that "Do you mean to say that therefore a man should be killed?" No. We cannot kill without reason. No. That will be a great sin. But this is a fight. This is a fight for a cause. They are not killers. It is said that a ksatriya who lays down his life in the battlefield, he at once rises up to the higher planets. You see? Because for right cause, if one lays down his life... Just like so many people, they lay, lay down their life for the cause of the country. Do you mean to say they are sinful or they are going to hell? No, no, no. Those who are laying down for the good cause their life, their next life is very brilliant. But if you commit suicide without any reason and written or without any cause, then you'll be sinful. You'll be sinful. These are... Of course, we get knowledge from this... So,

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

So dhira, one who has got complete knowledge of the constitution of this body, and the constitution of the spirit soul, they are not aggrieved when a soul transmigrates from one body to another. That is the sum and substance of the whole, this verse.

Now, here some philosophical question may be raised. There are two classes of philosophers, that after liberation, after getting out of this body, the soul amalgamates with the Supreme Soul. That question we have already discussed. Still, there is no harm in discussing it again because any, I mean to say, substantial knowledge, if it is discussed one after another, twice, thrice, it is better. Now, Krsna points out that every soul is individual soul, every soul. And that is our experience, that every one of us, we have got some individual consciousness, not that my consciousness is just equal to your consciousness. I do not know what is going in your soul. We are all individual souls. But according to Mayavadi philosophers, they say, "Just like the sky, the ether" -- ether is everywhere, within your body and within mine, within everyone's -- that "the ether has taken a form due to this particular body, but when the body is vanquished, the ether, I mean to say, amalgamates with the greater ether." This is called ghatakasa-potakasa. Ghatakasa-potakasa means this akasa is here.

Now, akasa means ether. Ether is here. Now, that ether... Now, my this body... Now, this body, there is also ether. "Now, as soon as this body's destroyed, it is burned or it is, another way, destroyed, then this ether within my body becomes amalgamated with the greater ether." So this sort of assertion is not accepted in the Bhagavad-gita because the first reason is that ether is a material thing. Ether is a material thing. And the soul is spirit. We'll have, in later slokas, that soul cannot be cut. Soul cannot be cut into pieces. And the spirit cannot be... acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam. We'll get those slokas. Soul never can be cut into pieces. You see? Just like here is a paper. I can, I can tore this paper into pieces, but it is not possible for the soul. Then it, then it loses its eternity or its stability. You see? So we cannot compare ether with soul because they are two different subject matters. You see? Analogy... Now, those who, those who are present here, those who have knowledge of logic, analogy... Analogy is possible when the two things are... When there are greatest number of similarities of two things, then there can be analogy. Otherwise there is no question of ana..., analogy. Just like if I say, "Oh, this lady's face is just like moon," now there must be some similarity in this face and the moon. As the moon is bright and a very beautiful looker, therefore this face must be very beautiful and very bright. But if the face is ugly, how can I compare with this moon? So whenever we make some analogy, there must be points, greater number of points of similarity. Now, here ether is a material thing, and soul is spiritual thing, so there is no similarity at all. At all. And besides that...

So soul, the individual soul, is different from the very beginning, nitya. Nityah sasvato 'yam. In later verses we will come to understand. The Lord says that "These individual souls, they are My part and parcels." Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah: [Bg. 15.7] "Jiva-bhutah, or these living entities, they are My parts and parcels." How it is that? I can give you a very good example. Just like the sun, sun and the sun rays. What is the sun ray? Sun ray, if you analyze physically, you'll find small molecules of raising (raysing ?) atoms, shining atoms. This is material. You see? The sun ray is nothing but combination of, I mean to say, shining atoms. It is not a homogeneous thing. Anything you take. Anything you take. You are artist. You take a point, any color, and you photograph. If you analyze with a microscope or magnifying glass, you'll find so many spots. Is it not? You are also artist. So in God's nature, there is no, nothing homogeneous. There is nothing homogeneous. All molecules, atoms, particles, even in the matter.

So similarly, we, we living entities, we are also spiritual atoms. We are spiritual atoms. And our magnitude also has assessed in the sastras. That magnitude is stated in the Puranas that kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. Kesagra, your hair. I have no long hair. You have got. Now, you can see the point of the hair, kesa-agra. Agra means the point of the hair. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. Now, the point of the hair, you divide into hundred. That is imaginable. That is not imaginable by you, how the point of the hair can be divided into hundred. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. Now, you take one part of that division and again divide into hundred. This is beyond your experience, beyond your power. The, by arithmetic calculation the mathematicians say that "The point has no length and breadth." Oh, this is, this is, this is a disappointment. Because he cannot measure the length and breadth of the point, therefore he says like that. But point has length and breadth. Anor aniyan mahato mahiyan. Therefore a certain class of philosophers, they are astonished simply by seeing the great magnitude of the Lord, but there is smaller, smallest, anor aniyan. These are much smaller than the atom, but that is beyond our experience. Therefore we say, nirakara. Nirakara means we cannot calculate the akara, the actual form. Nirakara does not mean that it has no form. It has form. Just see. That they say, that the point has no length and breadth. Similarly, the soul has everything, length and... Within that point it has got his head, leg, everything, consciousness, everything there. And because it is beyond the calculation of our human knowledge, therefore they are disappointed: "Nirakara, nirakara, nirakara." Not nirakara. It has akara. But we are so, our senses are so blunt that we cannot calculate.

Now, now, this, in these days of scientific advancement you take a dead man. You sit down. Now, we shall see how the soul transmigrates from this body to another. You cannot see. You cannot see. Our eyes are not qualified to see it. Therefore the all the senses, they should be spiritualized. If we want to see the spirit whole... The Lord is spirit whole. We cannot see even the spirit part. Our, our... We are very much proud of our senses, but our senses are so imperfect that... Now I see with my eyes, but I cannot see my eyelid. You see? The eyelid is always attached with my eye, but I cannot see. So our power of using the senses, that is very limited. So we should not depend only on the senses. Pratyaksa. It is called pratyaksa-anumana. There are three kinds of evidences, pratyaksa, anumana, and aitihya. Pratyaksa means that you can directly perceive. That is called pratyaksa. And anumana. Anumana means you can conjecture, make an..., "It may be like this. It may be like this. Perhaps it is like this." This is called anumana. And the other evidence is aitihya. Aitihya means to take evidences from the authority. So according... Out of these three evidences, this aitihya evidence, just like we are taking instruction of Bhagavad-gita, sound, sound vibrated by the greatest personality, Sri Krsna, that sort of pramana is acceptable. That is the best. This is the best way of acquiring knowledge. Because so far direct evidence is concerned, it is impossible. Because our senses are so imperfect, we cannot have anything. We can, we can have some direct experience of certain things, but not for all, especially for these spiritual things which is beyond our experience.

So pratyaksa means direct evidence you cannot have. And anumana means speculation, simply, "It may be like this. It may be like that." Oh, that is also imperfect because our thinking is also limited, because our senses are limited. So our thinking power, mind, is one of the senses. Out of the ten, mind is considered to be the eleventh sense. There are five karmendriya and five sensory organs and working organs, ten, and the mind is the chief. So mind is also considered as one of the senses, the chief senses. You see? So because it is sense, it is imperfect. So by mental speculation we cannot have a into right conclusion, by mental speculation. Those are simply speculating on mind, they can make some progress to a certain extent, but they cannot reach the ultimate goal. It is not possible by mental speculation; neither it is possible by direct evidence. The only, only possible evidence is authority, authority. Just like yesterday also I gave you that example. Just like if a child asks his mother that "Who is my father?" now the mother says, "Here is your father." Now, if the child says, "I don't believe it," so he has no other source of knowledge. Except the mother's version, that "Here is your father," he has no other alternative to know who is father. It is such a thing that neither he can imagine, speculate, "Oh, he may be my father, he may be my father, he may be my father." Lots of father he can gather. That is not possible. And neither it is possible for direct perception. The only possibility is the mother's evidence. Similarly, as the mother is authority for the child, similarly, the sruti, the Vedas, they are called mother, mother of knowledge.

So for such spiritual knowledge we have to accept the authority. Now, here, the Bhagavad-gita is authority. It is accepted. Don't think that it is a scripture of the Hindus. No. It is for all human beings. There is reason. There is science. There is philosophy. It is not dogmatic. So it is to be understood simply. And not only that, actually it is accepted by all countries. Not only in your country, but in other countries also, Bhagavad-gita is accepted as one of the greatest book of authority. So this is the process. You should know it that the spirit soul, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita,

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

As the soul is within the body and the body is changing every moment, similarly, the last stage of change is called death. Death is nothing but the final change of this present body. That's all. And our death condition is for seven months only. As soon as I leave this body, at once I am injected into other's mother's body according to my karma. I may be injected to a queen's womb; I may be injected to a dog's mother. You see? That is due to my karma. You see? The father is present there. The dog father is present there. The king's father is present there. The devata father is present there. There is no scarcity of father, but it will depend on my karma, which kind of father I shall take shelter. So these things are, have to be accepted from the authoritative scriptures like Srimad Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavata. And then it will be possible for us to understand the things as they are. There is no question of sectarianism. There is no question of this "ism" or that "ism." It is a question of pure knowledge.

Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- New York, March 11, 1966

"I Am Not This Cage"

"I Am Not This Cage"

73/08/19 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.13


Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.):

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

Translation: "As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupada: This simple thing, they cannot understand. Therefore it is mentioned here, dhiras tatra na muhyati. Dhira means sober, cool-headed man. And just the opposite is adhira. Adhira means third-class, fourth-class man. Or rascals, adhira. Dhira means sober. Just like... The exact translation is "gentleman," dhira. Those who are not gentlemen, uncultured, uneducated, rascal, they cannot understand. Otherwise where is the difficulty?

How plainly, how easily explained that kaumaram yauvanam jara. There are three stages, kaumaram. Up to fifteenth year, it is called kaumara. And then from sixteenth year, it begins youthful life up to fortieth year. Then after forty, one becomes jara, old man. Primarily old man and later on. Say, forty to fifty, primarily old man, and after fifty, he is old man. Therefore it is advised pancas ordhvam vanam vrajet. Pancas means fifty. Urdhvam, fifty-one. And rest of the days, maybe one hundred years, but that is not possible nowadays. Maybe seventy, eighty, utmost. Somebody lives ninety, ninety-five. Hundred years, although the limit, nowadays nobody lives. So those who are dhira, gentlemen, sober-headed, cool-headed, they can understand that "I have changed my body. When I was a boy, up to fifteenth year, I remember how I was playing, how I was jumping. Then I became young man. How I was enjoying my life with friends and families. Now I am old man." "I am" means my body. Dehinah. Dehi and dehinah. Dehi means the proprietor of the body, owner of the body, and deha means the body.

In the previous verse Krsna said that "All of us -- you, me, and all these soldiers and kings who are present here -- we existed in the past, we are existing now, and we shall continue to exist in the future." This was the statement. But rascals would say that "How I was existing? I was born only in such and such year. Before that, I was not existing. At the present time I am existing. That's all right. But as soon as I will die, I will not exist. So how Krsna says that I was... Both... All of us, we were existing, we are still existing, and we shall continue to exist?" Is that contradictory? No, that is not contradictory. It is fact. We were existing, maybe in different body. And we shall continue to exist in different body. Dehantara-praptih. This is to be understood. Not that my existence...

The example is given, dehantara. Just like I was boy. Then I became young man. So the body changed. And now I have become old man. The body changed. But I am existing, dehi, the proprietor of the body. So where is the difficulty to understand? Dehinah. Dehinah means "of the proprietor." The body is changing. I can understand that my body has changed. So next life the body may change. "May" not. It will change. But I may not remember. That is another thing. Just like in my last life, what was my body, I do not remember. So forgetfulness is our nature. Because I forget something, that does not mean that things did not take place. No. In my childhood I did so many things. I do not remember. But my father (and) mother, who have seen my childhood, they remember. So forgetting does not mean that things did not take place. Similarly, death means I have forgotten what was I was in the past life. That is called death. Otherwise I, as spirit soul, I have no death. Suppose I change my dress. In my boyhood I was in a different dress. In my youthhood I was in a different dress. In my old age, or as a sannyasi. I am in a different dress. So dress may change. That does not mean the owner of the dress is dead or gone. No.

This simple thing, transmigration of the soul, is explained. And individual. All of us individual. There is no question of mixing together. Everyone of us, individual. God is individual, we are also individual. That we have explained yesterday. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). Only difference is that God does not change His body; I change My body. That is also in this material world. When I shall go to the spiritual world, there is no more change of body. Eternal. As Krsna has got His eternal body, sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1], form, eternal blissful of knowledge, similarly, when we go back to home, back to Godhead, we get also similar body, sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah. Isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1]. That is the difference. When Krsna comes, He does not change His body. In this material world, Krsna does not change. Therefore His name is Acyuta. He never changes. He never falls down, because He is the controller of maya. And we are controlled by maya. That is the difference. Material energy.... We are controlled by the material energy. But Krsna is the controller of the material energy. Not only material energy, spiritual energy, all energies. Everything that we see, everything manifested, whatever we see, that is Krsna's energy.

Just like heat and light is the energy of the sun, similarly, Krsna's energies... There are many energies, but they have been divided principally into three: external energy, internal energy and marginal energy. So we are living entities. We are marginal energy. Marginal means we may remain under the external energy, or we may remain under the spiritual energy, as we like. The independence is there. Yathecchasi tatha kuru: "Whatever you like, you can do." Krsna gives this independence to Arjuna. After describing Bhagavad-gita, He said, yathecchasi tatha kuru. He does not force. That is not good. Forceful thing will not stand. Just like we advise, "Rise early in the morning." This is advised. Not that I have to force everyone. That will... Force, I may force one day, two days, but if one does not practice it, then simply force is useless. So similarly, Krsna does not force anyone to leave this material world. We all conditioned souls, material world, we are under the influence of the material energy. Krsna comes here to deliver us from these clutches of material energy, that "You are suffering so much..."

Because we are part and parcel of Krsna, or Krsna's son, directly. If the son is in difficulty, the father suffers also. Although father directly has no suffering... Suppose a son has become mad, or nowadays hippy. The father is very sorry that "My son is not living like a gentleman. He is living like a," what is called, "wretch." So father is not happy. Similarly, we conditioned souls in this material world, we are suffering so much, living like wretches and rascals. So Krsna is not happy. Therefore He comes personally to teach us, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati, tadatmanam srjamy aham [Bg. 4.7].

So when Krsna comes, He comes in His original form. But unfortunately, we understand Krsna as one of us. He is one of us because He is father, we are sons. One of us. But He is the chief. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). He is more powerful, the most powerful, supreme powerful. We have got little power. That is the difference between Krsna... We cannot be equal. Nobody can be equal with Krsna, or God, or greater than Him. Everyone, under Krsna. Ekale isvara krsna ara saba bhrtya [Cc. Adi 5.142]. Therefore everyone is servant of Krsna. Krsna is the only master. Bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram: [Bg. 5.29] "I am the enjoyer only. I am the proprietor." Krsna says. That is the fact. So we are changing our body, but Krsna does not change. One should understand this. The proof is that Krsna says, vedaham samatitani. He remembers past, present and future.

Just like Krsna says Arjuna, in the Fourth Chapter you will find, Krsna says that "This philosophy of Bhagavad-gita, I spoke to the sun-god, some forty millions of years ago." How He remembers? Because He does not change His body. This is simple fact. We do not remember because we are changing body every moment. That is medical science. We are changing the corpuscles of blood. Every second, the body is changing, imperceptibly. Imperceptibly, body is changing. Therefore the father and mother cannot understand how the body is changing imperceptibly. But third person, if he comes all of a sudden and sees the child has grown very big, he says, "Oh, you have grown so big?" But the father-mother does not see that he has grown so big. Because he is always seeing, and the change is taking place very imperceptibly, every moment.

Just like cinema spool. The picture is changing, but it is changing in such a way, we are seeing that one man is dancing only. But he is dancing means he is changing his body. He is changing his picture. Similarly our body is also changing. But I am not changing, you are not changing. My body is changing. That is to be understood.

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir...
[Bg. 2.13]

So we are all individual souls and we are eternal. But because we are changing body, therefore the birth, death, old age, disease, these are calculation. So our Krsna consciousness movement means that to get out of this changing position, come to the permanent. Because we are eternal. That should be the question, that everyone wants to live eternally, nobody wants to die. Everyone. If I come before you with a revolver, "I shall kill you," you shall immediately cry, because you do not want to die. This is not very good business to die and take birth again. It is very troublesome. That I know imperceptibly, that "If I die, I will have to take place again in the wombs of the mother, and maybe nowadays mother (is) killing the child within the womb. Then again another mother." This process is going on. So that trouble, being killed, to live within the womb of the mother, these things are very troublesome. We have got in the sub-consciousness all this trouble. Therefore we do not want to die. Because we have to again accept another body. And the process of accepting the body is very long and very troublesome. We know all these things. Therefore we do not want.

So therefore the question is that I am eternal and why I have been put into this temporary life? This is intelligent question. This is the problem. But these rascals, they have set aside this real problem. They are thinking how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex, how to defend. Even if you eat nicely, if you sleep nicely, but ultimately you'll have to die. The problem is there. But they are careless about this real problem. They are very much alert in the temporary problem. So temporary problem, actually there is no problem. The birds, beasts they also eat, sleep, they have sexual intercourse and they defend. If they know all these things without becoming a human being, without having sufficient education or so-called civilization, how to live, how to sleep, how to defend. If they can live, so what is your problem? These things are not problems. The rascal says, "Overpopulation, this..." These are not at all problems. The real problem is that "I do not want to die. Why death comes, takes place?" This is real problem. But the rascals do not know it. They think these are problems, temporary things. He will live for fifty years and maybe.... That will be explained in the next verse, matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14].

Just like we are, temporarily, we are placed with so many problems Suppose there is severe cold. So it is also a problem. We have to search out nice coat or fireplace and... These are problems. If they are not available, then we are in distress. These are problems also. But these problems are temporary. Severe cold, winter, has come and it will go. That is not permanent problem. Permanent problem has been due to my ignorance, I am taking birth, I am accepting death, I am accepting disease, I am accepting old age. This is real problem. These are real problems. Therefore Krsna has said, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam: [Bg. 13.9] "Actually those who are in knowledge, they should see all these four problems, birth, death, old age and disease."

So tatha dehantara-praptih. Krsna says, "We existed. We existed in a different body. Now we are existing in a different body, and in the future also, we shall all exist in a different body." Tatha dehantara-praptih. In this way we are transmigrating from one body to another, but we are existing. This is the sum and substance of this verse.

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

So dhiras tatra na muhyati. It is very simple thing. Suppose a young man, a boy, changes his body, bodily symptoms. Just like a boy has no mustaches or beard, but all of a sudden the hairs grow. Does he cry, "Oh, why I am growing hair? Why I am growing?" Because that is the necessary change of body. Why he should be perplexed, "Why my body is changing?" Similarly, my body is changing, this body to another body, I am dying. Why shall I be perplexed? The intelligence is that "What kind of body I am going to get?" That is intelligence. Otherwise why one should be perplexed? Dehantara-praptih.

If you prepare yourself... Just like in childhood, boyhood, if you prepare yourself, nicely educated, then you get nice job, nice situation, you will be happy. Preparation for the next life. Similarly, if you prepare yourself in this life for going back to home, back to Godhead, then where is perplexity? There is no perplexity. "I am going to Krsna I am going back to home, back to Godhead. Now I will have not to change material body. I will have my spiritual body. I shall now play with Krsna, dance with Krsna, eat with Krsna." This is Krsna consciousness movement. This is Krsna consciousness. Prepare yourself for the next life. Don't be... The man, dying man cries because maybe he is dreaming next life, horrible life. Because according to karma... Those who are very, very sinful, they cry, because they see horrible scenes at the time of death, and he is going to accept some type of body... But those who are pious, those who are devotees, they are dying without any anxiety. They are dying. The death may take place...

The example is given that... Foolish people may say that "You devotees, you are dying, and the sinful men, or non-devotees, they are also dying. So where is the difference?" No, there is difference. There is difference. This has been described by the example: just like a cat catches its cub and catches the mouse. So formerly we see that the cat has caught the mouse in the mouth and the cub also in the mouth, but there are difference of catching. The cub is feeling pleasure, "My mother is carrying me." And the mouse is feeling death knell, "Oh, now I am going to die." This is the difference. So although a devotee is dying and non-devotee is dying, there is difference of feeling at the time of death. Like the mouse and the cub. And don't consider that both of them are dying in the same process. The process may be same, but the situation is different.

Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. The formula is there. Krsna says, janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah. Simply if you try to understand what is Krsna, divyam. They are all divine, transcendental. Krsna's activities, Krsna's appearance, Krsna's worship, Krsna's temple, Krsna's glories -- everything transcendental. So if one understands these things or tries to understand, even he does not understand, tries to understand, then he becomes liberated from this process of birth and death. Krsna says. So become very serious to understand Krsna and remain in Krsna consciousness. Then this problem, birth, death, old age and disease will be solved, automatically, very easily. There will be no problem.

That is the function of the human life, to understand that "I am eternal." Krsna says that "In the past we existed, in the present we are existing, and in the future we shall continue to exist." Then why I have got this type of body by which I am actually, not actually, superficially I am not existing. So this is the problem. A dhira means a sober man will think of this problem, that "I want to live. Why death takes place? I want to live very healthy life. Why disease comes? I don't want to become old man. Why old age comes?" Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [Bg. 13.9]. These are the problems. So solve this problem simply by taking to Krsna consciousness, simply by understanding Krsna. And for understand Krsna, the Bhagavad-gita is there, so nicely explained.

So make your life successful, that "I am not this body." Simply by understand... "I am not this body. I am embodied within this body, encaged. But I am not this cage." Just like a bird is within the cage. The cage is not the bird. But foolish persons, they are taking care of the cage, not of the bird. The bird, out of starvation, is suffering. So we are suffering spiritual starvation. Therefore nobody is happy in this material world. Spiritual starvation. Therefore we see in an opulent country like America, enough food, enough residence, enough material enjoyment, still they are becoming hippies, all over the world. They are not satisfied, because it is spiritual starvation. Materially we may be very opulent, but if you starve spiritually, you cannot be happy. This is the process.

So spiritual rejuvenation required. Aham brahmasmi: "I am not this body. I am Brahman, spiritual soul." Then you will be happy. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54], samah sarvesu... Then there will be equality, fraternity, brotherhood. Otherwise it is all bogus, simply high-sounding words. There cannot be all these things. Come to the spiritual platform, brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na... [Bg. 18.54], samah sarvesu bhutesu. Then you can see equally. Otherwise you will see that "I have become human being. I have got my hands and legs, and the poor cow has no hands and legs. Kill him and eat." No. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. Asamata. Unequality. Why? What right you have got to kill another animal? Because you have no vision of equality, for want of Krsna consciousness. Therefore so-called education, culture, fraternity, in this material world, all these are bogus, humbug. Simply Krsna consciousness is the right subject matter to be studied by sane, sober, dhira. Then the society will be happy; otherwise not. Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- London, August 19, 1973