"Disturbed Mind Is Due To Ignorance"

66/03/11 New York, Bhagavad-gita 2.13


Prabhupada: This is thirteenth sloka. You can open it. The Sanskrit word is

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

Student: This is thirteenth?

Prabhupada: Thirteen, yes.

Student: "Just as boyhood, youth and old age are attributed to the soul through this body, he, the soul, obtains another body. The wise man does not get deluded about this."

Prabhupada: Yes. Now, the wise man, the word, Sanskrit word, is dhira. Dhira means that one who is undisturbed in mind. And our disturbance of the mind is due to our ignorance. Suppose I want to go somewhere. Now I am in the station. Actually, it so happened when I came to New York first from India. I was to be dispatched to Butler by the bus station, but I was a new man. I did not know the rules and regulation. Of course, somebody was guiding me. Still, I was very much in disturbed condition, how to get on the bus, how to get the ticket, how... All these. So disturbance of mind is due to our ignorance. (someone enters) Yes. Come in. Yes. So disturbance of mind is due to our ignorance. So here, a very nice word. (aside:) You can come here. All right. Here a very nice word is used: dhira. Dhira. Dhira means undisturbed. Undisturbed. So this we should, we should carefully note, that our mind in the material condition is always disturbed, always disturbed. And this is due to our unfavorable condition.

Because we are actually spirit in identity and we have been put into material conditions. We can very well experience. And we have, I got experience, and here is Captain Pandia. He has also experienced. He may be more than experienced than me. When we passed through the sea on the ship, although we are on the sea, quite safe, still, when there is some storm, when there is some disturbance on the ocean, we also become very much disturbed, because that situation is foreign to us. We are not so much disturbed in the land as we are disturbed in the ocean because we know that our position in the ocean is not our natural condition. So we should know that disturbance is due to our unnatural condition. Otherwise, there is no question of disturbance.

So whole disturbance of mind... It is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,

tat sadhu manye 'sura-varya dehinam
sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat
hitvatma-patam grham andha-kupam
vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta
[SB 7.5.5]

The... This is a verse in connection with talks between Maharaja Prahlada and his father, Hiranyakasipu. His father was gross materialist, Hiranyakasipu. Hiranya means gold, and kasipu means soft bed. So materialists, they are concerned with gold and soft bed for enjoyment. You see? So his name was Hiranyakasipu. And the Prahlada, his son... Prahlada means prakrsta-rupena ahlada. Ahlada means pleasure. He's always full of pleasure. He has nothing to do with material... Because material pleasure cannot give us pleasure. It is our mistake. But because we have no information of the spiritual pleasure and because we are conditioned by this material body, therefore we seek pleasure through matter. Now we have to raise ourself from this position. Then we can get unlimited pleasure. We want pleasure, but we do not want such pleasure which ends. We want nonending pleasure. That is our heart's desire. But in material pleasure we cannot have that bliss. Even if you take a very good foodstuff, just delicious, still, after taking some portion of it, you will feel yourself satiated. Then that very foodstuff, you'll say, "No, no, I don't want any more." Because that ends. So that is not real pleasure. Real pleasure is defined: ananta. Ananta means that which has no end. So that pleasure you can have only when you are spiritually realized soul. That is possible. That is possible. We are reading all these scriptures, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, and there are so many Vedic literatures that if anyone wants to have spiritual life, there is complete facility. There is complete facility.

Now, this Prahlada... Prahlada was a boy, a child, not boy. He was only five years old. So his father called him, "My dear son, what you have learned from your teacher best? Please explain." So he is explaining this, that

tat sadhu manye 'sura-varya dehinam
sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat
hitvatma-patam grham andha-kupam
vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta
[SB 7.5.5]

"My dear father..." And his father was materialist. Therefore materialists are called in Sanskrit language, asura. Asura. There are two kinds of human being all the time: asura and deva. Deva. Deva means human beings who are connected with the Supreme Lord. Their life is for realization of the Supreme Truth. They are called deva. Just like in higher planets, there are also living beings. They are called devatas, demigods, because their magnitude of pleasure is far, far greater than ours. But because they do everything in relation with the Supreme Lord, therefore they are called devatas, devata. Devata means demigods. And asura. Asura means just the opposite. They simply enjoy life for the matter of sense pleasure. That's all. So those who are interested in sense pleasure, they are called asuras, and those who are interested, unending spiritual pleasure, they are called devatas. Devata and asura does not mean that asuras are very ugly and devatas are very beautiful. Even the ugly man can become a devata, or even a beautiful man may become asura. That is due to his mentality. Because, after all, the soul is pure. When he is in unnatural condition of life, wants to enjoy simply the material senses, he becomes asura. So asura can be turned into devata. There is no hindrance.

So Prahlada Maharaja... Just see. The father was asura, and the son was devata. So asura's son can be devata. And a devata's son can be asura. Just like in India. In India nowadays there is a great movement for removing the caste system because the higher caste, brahmanas, they are claiming, due to their birthright, higher position, and the others, they are in inconvenience: "Now, nowadays the brahmanas are doing the same thing, what we are doing, a sudra. Why he should claim?" So there is quarrel. You see? So devata and asura, the division is that, of course, the... Of course, according to our sastra, the brahmana family means devata family. But because nowadays they are descendants, they have deviated, deviated from the brahminical culture, they are not to be considered as devatas. That is also mentioned in the sastras. They are called brahma-bandhus. According to sastra, they are called brahma-bandhus. Brahma-bandhus means son of a brahmana but not the brahmana. Just like a son of high court justice. He can claim that "I am the son of a high court justice." That's all... But because he's the son of a high court justice, he cannot claim that "I am also the justice of the high court." So that consideration is there.

So asura, devata, there is no such formula that "In this line only the asuras will come, and in this line only the devatas will come." The asura can be converted into devata, and the devatas also can be converted into asuras, according to their action. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find that "This whole division of caste, that is created by Me." Maya srstam: "I have created." But how it is? Now, according to guna and karma, according to quality and according to his work. He never says, "According to birth." So just see. Now, here, Hiranyakasipu... Hiranyakasipu is asura, but his son is devata, Prahlada. Now, according to birthright, he should be also asura, but no. He is devata, Prahlada Maharaja. Prahlada Maharaja is counted one of the great pers..., twelve great personalities who can distribute transcendental knowledge. They are called mahajana. Mahajana.

Now, this Prahlada Maharaja, because he's mahajana, his statement should be accepted. So he's saying to his father, asura-varya: "My dear father, you are the greatest of the asuras." Asura-varya. Varya means greatest. So even if he is father, he addresses his father, asura-varya, asura. "Because your aim is simply sense pleasure." You see? So tat sadhu manye asura-varya dehinam. The father asked the son, "What you have learned, the best thing?" So he's also saying sincerely before his father the best thing that "My dear father, for the dehinam..." Here also the same thing, dehinam. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Dehinah. Dehinah means the spiritual spark who has accepted this material body. This material body is foreign. That will be explained. Just like your coat and shirt is foreign to your self. Similarly, this material body is foreign. So dehinam... Dehinam means one who has accepted this material body. So we are accepted, mean... "Accepted" means we have done something by which we have been forced to accept, forced to accept. Just like if we are put into the prison house, the prison house has got separate dress. So when you are put into the prison house, you have to keep aside your own household dress, and you have to take that particular dress. If you say, "No, no. I cannot accept this dress. I am a gentleman. I have got costly dress. I shall put on that," no, you must, forced. Similarly, we, we living entities, we are forced to accept different kind of dress. There are 8,400,000 kinds of dresses like this body. And your body, my body, you see? Now we are here, several ladies and gentlemen, but you'll find that nobody's body will be similar to the other's body. God's arrangement is so nice that everyone has got his particular body according to his work. It is so nice arrangement. You see. You'll find millions of persons, and everyone you'll find different from the other. You won't find two similar persons. You see? So dehinam. Because there are different kinds of mentality, not that all our mentality is one and the same. No, no. We are... And the law of nature is so finer that, according to the different kinds of mentality, they have got different kinds of bodies. So dehino 'smin.

So Prahlada Maharaja says that, tat sadhu manye 'sura-varya dehinam. Dehinam means "of those who have accepted this material body, for them." And what is their condition? Now, dehinam sada samudvigna-dhiyam. Dehinam, one who has accepted this material body, his conditional life is always full of anxiety. Not that, that we are always in want. Even in your duty. Just like our Captain saheb is here. I have seen in the ship he has got very serious duty in the ocean. He's always consulting the chart and the latitude, longitude, which side the ship is going. That is anxiety because so many lives, so many property, is under his control. Any, a slight mistake, would play havoc. We do not know. I was asking the Captain saheb, "Where you are going?" But I do not know. I see simply vast of water. But he has got responsibility. He knows the thing. So any responsible officer... Any responsible... Your President Johnson, he's also full of anxiety. I am also full of anxiety. You are also full of anxiety. Even a, a small bird, you'll find... You give a small bird some grains. You'll see like this: "Is there enemy? Somebody's coming. Somebody's killing me." So full of anxieties. This is the condition. This is the condition. So you cannot, you cannot be free from the anxiety, dehinah.

Prahlada Maharaja says, sada samudvigna-dhiyam. And why this anxiety? Now, asad-grahat. Asad-grahat: "Because he has accepted this temporary body." He is eternal. A living spirit is eternal, but he has been forced to accept this temporary body. This is my position. One should be conscious of his precarious position, that "I am eternal, but I am encaged in a temporary body which will not exist. However I may try to make it youthful by so many arrangement, but no..." The science cannot give you permanent life. That is not possible. You may be, may be proud of your scientific advancement of knowledge, but Bhagavad-gita says that four things... Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. "My dear sir, however you may make advancement in scientific knowledge, you cannot stop birth, you cannot stop death, you cannot stop old age, neither you can stop diseases." You see? So, so long we have got this body, so we must have anxieties. That is the law of nature. Now, here, here it is said that... Now let us finish that. Prahlada Maharaja said, sada samudvigna-dhiyam: "My dear father, for persons who have accepted this temporary material body and is full of anxiety always, for them, my idea is that they should give up this materialistic life and surrender unto Hari." Hari means Bhagavan, the Supreme Lord. That is the way of getting out of... And actually, this is so. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find in the last instruction to Arjuna is: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "This is the most confidential knowledge I am giving you because you are My friend and because I love you very much. Therefore this is My last word."

So we can get free from all anxieties as soon as we are surrendered to Hari. That is the whole system of spiritual knowledge. Aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatha kim. If you accept from the very beginning this principle, that "I must surrender unto the Supreme Lord," then there is no other necessity of prosecuting your spiritual knowledge. That is the final solution of life. Aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatha kim. Tapasya means penances, accepting penances for spiritual realization. Now, one who has accepted the worship of the Supreme Lord, he has no more anything to do for spiritual realization. He has realized. And naradhito yadi haris tapasa tatha kim. And undergoing so much severe penances, if one does not understand what is God, then whole thing is spoiled. Tapasa tatha kim. Whole penances is spoiled because he could not reach to the ultimate goal. So aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatha kim, naradhito yadi haris tapasa tatha kim. Antar-bahir yadi haris tapasa tatha kim. One who has achieved that knowledge, that he can see within himself and outside always the Supreme Lord, he has no more necessity of any penance. And after undergoing all sorts of penances, if I cannot realize that God is within me and God is without everywhere, then all my penances are spoiled. You see? These are very nice.

So here, here it is said that dhira, dhira.

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

Dehinah. Dehinah means "one who has accepted this material body." Asmin. Asmin means "in this world" or "in this life." Yatha, "as." Dehe. Dehe means "within this body." Because dehinah means "one who has accepted this body," and dehe, "within this body." So I am sitting within this body. Now, I am not this body. Just like you are within this shirt and coat, similarly, I am also within this body, this gross body and the subtle body. This gross body is made of this earth, water, and fire, air, and ether, this gross body, this our whole material body. Now, in this Earth, in this planet, earth is prominent. Anywhere, the body, material body, is made of these five elements: earth, water, fire, air and ether. These are the five ingredients. Just like this building. This whole building is made of earth, water and fire. You have taken some earth, and then you have made bricks and burnt into the fire, and after mixing the earth with water, you make a shape of brick, and then you put into the fire, and then when it is strong enough, then you set it just like a big building. So it is nothing but a display of earth, water and fire, simply. That's all. Similarly, our body is also made in that way: earth, water, fire, air and ether. Air... Air is passing, the breathing. You know. The air is always there. This, this outer skin is earth, and there is heat in the stomach. Without heat, you cannot digest anything. You see? As soon as the heat is diminished, your digesting power becomes bad. So many things. This is arrangement. Now, in this planet we have got this body which is where earth is very prominent. Similarly, in other planets, other planets, somewhere water is very prominent, somewhere fire is very prominent. In the sun planet, the bodies there... There are also living entities, but their body is so made that it is fiery. They can exist in the fire. They can exist in the fire. Similarly, Varunaloka, in the Venus, all these planets, they have got different types of body. Just like here you can experience that in the water the aquatics, they have got a different type of body. For years and years together there are aquatic animals, they are within the water. They are very comfortable. But the moment you'll drag it to the land, it dies. Similarly, you are very comfortable on the land, but the moment you are put into the water, you die. Because your body, bodily construction is different, his body, the bodily construction different, the bird's bodily... The bird, heavy bird, it can fly, but it is God's made flying instrument. But your man-made instrument, it crashes, crashes. You see? Because artificial.

So this is the arrangement. Every living being has got a particular type of body. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. And what is the nature of that body? Now, here the matter is being explained that how we change our body, how... But, but, but, because that is a difficult problem for us because we are engrossed with the idea of identifying this body with the soul. Now, the first A-B-C-D of spiritual knowledge is to understand that "I am not this body." Unless one is firmly convinced that "I am not this body," he cannot progress in the spiritual line. So the first lesson in the Bhagavad-gita is taken in that way. So here it is, that dehino 'smin. Now, dehi, the soul, soul. Dehi means soul. One who has accepted this body, material body, he's called dehi. So asmin, he is there. He is there, but his body is changing. You see? The body is changing.

Now, our body was formed in the womb of my mother. That is also described in the Srimad-Bhagavata, the physiology, physiology of this body. It is said there that according to our karma we are put through the semina of the father, injected into the womb of the mother. And the father's secretion and the mother's secretion, that is emulsified and takes the form of a pea, and that pea gradually develops. In three months, there are holes, nine holes: the eyes, ears, nose, and the..., just like we have got nine holes. And in seven months the whole body is complete. Then the child gets consciousness. And in ten months it is just ready to come out. So by air, the same air, forces the child to come out of the mother's connection. Because so long a child remains within the womb of the mother, she, she takes through the mother, so there is intestinal connection between the child and the mother. So after the child comes out, the intestinal connection is cut away and he becomes a separate identity. That is the law.

Now, the, our point is, as from the mother's womb, from the very beginning of our birth, as the body develops, develops, similarly, after coming out of the body, it also develops. But the spirit spark is there, the same. The body takes development. So... Now, that development -- from this small child, he becomes a bigger child, then he becomes a boy, then becomes a youth, then gradually a old man like me, and then gradually, when this body is no longer useful, then it is, it has to be given up and another body has to be taken -- this is the process of transmigration of soul. I think there is no difficulty to understand this simple process. Now, the soul is there, and the body's transforming every moment, every moment, imperceptibly. Just like if you have seen some, some your friend's child small, and after five years, you go to that friend's house and see the child: "Oh, you have grown so big? You have grown so big." But the father, mother cannot see. Because they are seeing daily, they do not see that "How my child is growing, daily," but a man who comes all of a sudden after five years, he says, "Oh, the child is grown up." So imperceptibly we are changing our body every moment. Every moment. That is also medical science, that we are changing our blood corpuscles every moment. You see? Similarly, what is the difficulty to understand that, that the soul transmigrates from one body to another? It is very nicely explained here. "As the owner of the body is there within the body, but the body is changing, one after another, one after another..." Dehino 'smin yatha dehe, kaumaram yauvanam [Bg. 2.13]. Here two examples are given: kaumaram... Kaumaram means the age up to fifteen years, the age up to fifteen years, that is called kaumara. And after fif..., from sixteen years, so upwards, say, up to forty years, one is youth. And then, after forty years, one becomes old. This is process of this body, but it will be later on explained the spirit soul within this body, that is not changing. The body is changing.

So dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra [Bg. 2.13]. Dhira means the man who is out of ignorance. (aside:) You are... You sit down. That's all right. Dhiras tatra na muhyati. Dhira means -- we began first explanation -- dhira means one who is, one who is out of ignorance. That means. So one who knows, one who knows the process of the body, changing every moment, then why he should lament when this body is left and another body is taken? Suppose if I throw away this covering of my body and take another covering, then what is there, lamentation? What is the cause of lamentation there? And one should be, rather, glad that the old garment is thrown away and one new garment is taken up. So this, this question... Because Arjuna was disturbed that "How can I fight with my grandfather? That is all right. That is my duty to fight, but how can I fight with my grandfather, Bhismadeva, with my teacher, Dronacarya? It is not possible." So he is playing the part of a fool, but he was not a fool, but just to teach us. Unless he becomes a fool like us, why this Bhagavad-gita will come?

The Bhagavad-gita... Just like it is play. Krsna is constant companion of Arjuna. So Arjuna cannot be put into that ignorance. It is for our benefit that by the will of the Lord Krsna, Arjuna is put into that sort of ignorance. So he is asking Krsna all these questions just like a foolish man, and Krsna is giving instruction so that it is being recorded in the history of Mahabharata for future generations. So here Arjuna, he was declining to fight, declining to fight, that "How can I fight with my grandfather?" You see? "He is respectable. He has brought me up since my father's death. And here is my teacher, Dronacarya. He has taught me this military art. Whatever I am warrior, my expertness is due to him. And do you think, Krsna, I shall kill them? No, I can fight with them. I can kill them, but it is not my duty." So Arjuna, and, says like that. But Krsna says, "No. You must be dutiful. Never mind who is that, your grandfather or your teacher. No. When there is fight... You are a ksatriya. A ksatriya should not be..., has no other consideration in the fight. He must fight."

So here is the thing, you see, that Krsna does not say that "You become a nonviolent." No. Never says that. When there is question of fighting for right cause, you must fight. There is no question of becoming nonviolent. You see? Now, now, he is saying that "Don't be aggrieved. Even your grandfather, Bhismadeva, even your Dronacarya..., it will be good for them because they are now old enough, and as soon as they are dead, they get a new body. So you should not be discouraged." Then one is that "Do you mean to say that therefore a man should be killed?" No. We cannot kill without reason. No. That will be a great sin. But this is a fight. This is a fight for a cause. They are not killers. It is said that a ksatriya who lays down his life in the battlefield, he at once rises up to the higher planets. You see? Because for right cause, if one lays down his life... Just like so many people, they lay, lay down their life for the cause of the country. Do you mean to say they are sinful or they are going to hell? No, no, no. Those who are laying down for the good cause their life, their next life is very brilliant. But if you commit suicide without any reason and written or without any cause, then you'll be sinful. You'll be sinful. These are... Of course, we get knowledge from this... So,

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

So dhira, one who has got complete knowledge of the constitution of this body, and the constitution of the spirit soul, they are not aggrieved when a soul transmigrates from one body to another. That is the sum and substance of the whole, this verse.

Now, here some philosophical question may be raised. There are two classes of philosophers, that after liberation, after getting out of this body, the soul amalgamates with the Supreme Soul. That question we have already discussed. Still, there is no harm in discussing it again because any, I mean to say, substantial knowledge, if it is discussed one after another, twice, thrice, it is better. Now, Krsna points out that every soul is individual soul, every soul. And that is our experience, that every one of us, we have got some individual consciousness, not that my consciousness is just equal to your consciousness. I do not know what is going in your soul. We are all individual souls. But according to Mayavadi philosophers, they say, "Just like the sky, the ether" -- ether is everywhere, within your body and within mine, within everyone's -- that "the ether has taken a form due to this particular body, but when the body is vanquished, the ether, I mean to say, amalgamates with the greater ether." This is called ghatakasa-potakasa. Ghatakasa-potakasa means this akasa is here.

Now, akasa means ether. Ether is here. Now, that ether... Now, my this body... Now, this body, there is also ether. "Now, as soon as this body's destroyed, it is burned or it is, another way, destroyed, then this ether within my body becomes amalgamated with the greater ether." So this sort of assertion is not accepted in the Bhagavad-gita because the first reason is that ether is a material thing. Ether is a material thing. And the soul is spirit. We'll have, in later slokas, that soul cannot be cut. Soul cannot be cut into pieces. And the spirit cannot be... acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam. We'll get those slokas. Soul never can be cut into pieces. You see? Just like here is a paper. I can, I can tore this paper into pieces, but it is not possible for the soul. Then it, then it loses its eternity or its stability. You see? So we cannot compare ether with soul because they are two different subject matters. You see? Analogy... Now, those who, those who are present here, those who have knowledge of logic, analogy... Analogy is possible when the two things are... When there are greatest number of similarities of two things, then there can be analogy. Otherwise there is no question of ana..., analogy. Just like if I say, "Oh, this lady's face is just like moon," now there must be some similarity in this face and the moon. As the moon is bright and a very beautiful looker, therefore this face must be very beautiful and very bright. But if the face is ugly, how can I compare with this moon? So whenever we make some analogy, there must be points, greater number of points of similarity. Now, here ether is a material thing, and soul is spiritual thing, so there is no similarity at all. At all. And besides that...

So soul, the individual soul, is different from the very beginning, nitya. Nityah sasvato 'yam. In later verses we will come to understand. The Lord says that "These individual souls, they are My part and parcels." Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah: [Bg. 15.7] "Jiva-bhutah, or these living entities, they are My parts and parcels." How it is that? I can give you a very good example. Just like the sun, sun and the sun rays. What is the sun ray? Sun ray, if you analyze physically, you'll find small molecules of raising (raysing ?) atoms, shining atoms. This is material. You see? The sun ray is nothing but combination of, I mean to say, shining atoms. It is not a homogeneous thing. Anything you take. Anything you take. You are artist. You take a point, any color, and you photograph. If you analyze with a microscope or magnifying glass, you'll find so many spots. Is it not? You are also artist. So in God's nature, there is no, nothing homogeneous. There is nothing homogeneous. All molecules, atoms, particles, even in the matter.

So similarly, we, we living entities, we are also spiritual atoms. We are spiritual atoms. And our magnitude also has assessed in the sastras. That magnitude is stated in the Puranas that kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. Kesagra, your hair. I have no long hair. You have got. Now, you can see the point of the hair, kesa-agra. Agra means the point of the hair. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. Now, the point of the hair, you divide into hundred. That is imaginable. That is not imaginable by you, how the point of the hair can be divided into hundred. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. Now, you take one part of that division and again divide into hundred. This is beyond your experience, beyond your power. The, by arithmetic calculation the mathematicians say that "The point has no length and breadth." Oh, this is, this is, this is a disappointment. Because he cannot measure the length and breadth of the point, therefore he says like that. But point has length and breadth. Anor aniyan mahato mahiyan. Therefore a certain class of philosophers, they are astonished simply by seeing the great magnitude of the Lord, but there is smaller, smallest, anor aniyan. These are much smaller than the atom, but that is beyond our experience. Therefore we say, nirakara. Nirakara means we cannot calculate the akara, the actual form. Nirakara does not mean that it has no form. It has form. Just see. That they say, that the point has no length and breadth. Similarly, the soul has everything, length and... Within that point it has got his head, leg, everything, consciousness, everything there. And because it is beyond the calculation of our human knowledge, therefore they are disappointed: "Nirakara, nirakara, nirakara." Not nirakara. It has akara. But we are so, our senses are so blunt that we cannot calculate.

Now, now, this, in these days of scientific advancement you take a dead man. You sit down. Now, we shall see how the soul transmigrates from this body to another. You cannot see. You cannot see. Our eyes are not qualified to see it. Therefore the all the senses, they should be spiritualized. If we want to see the spirit whole... The Lord is spirit whole. We cannot see even the spirit part. Our, our... We are very much proud of our senses, but our senses are so imperfect that... Now I see with my eyes, but I cannot see my eyelid. You see? The eyelid is always attached with my eye, but I cannot see. So our power of using the senses, that is very limited. So we should not depend only on the senses. Pratyaksa. It is called pratyaksa-anumana. There are three kinds of evidences, pratyaksa, anumana, and aitihya. Pratyaksa means that you can directly perceive. That is called pratyaksa. And anumana. Anumana means you can conjecture, make an..., "It may be like this. It may be like this. Perhaps it is like this." This is called anumana. And the other evidence is aitihya. Aitihya means to take evidences from the authority. So according... Out of these three evidences, this aitihya evidence, just like we are taking instruction of Bhagavad-gita, sound, sound vibrated by the greatest personality, Sri Krsna, that sort of pramana is acceptable. That is the best. This is the best way of acquiring knowledge. Because so far direct evidence is concerned, it is impossible. Because our senses are so imperfect, we cannot have anything. We can, we can have some direct experience of certain things, but not for all, especially for these spiritual things which is beyond our experience.

So pratyaksa means direct evidence you cannot have. And anumana means speculation, simply, "It may be like this. It may be like that." Oh, that is also imperfect because our thinking is also limited, because our senses are limited. So our thinking power, mind, is one of the senses. Out of the ten, mind is considered to be the eleventh sense. There are five karmendriya and five sensory organs and working organs, ten, and the mind is the chief. So mind is also considered as one of the senses, the chief senses. You see? So because it is sense, it is imperfect. So by mental speculation we cannot have a into right conclusion, by mental speculation. Those are simply speculating on mind, they can make some progress to a certain extent, but they cannot reach the ultimate goal. It is not possible by mental speculation; neither it is possible by direct evidence. The only, only possible evidence is authority, authority. Just like yesterday also I gave you that example. Just like if a child asks his mother that "Who is my father?" now the mother says, "Here is your father." Now, if the child says, "I don't believe it," so he has no other source of knowledge. Except the mother's version, that "Here is your father," he has no other alternative to know who is father. It is such a thing that neither he can imagine, speculate, "Oh, he may be my father, he may be my father, he may be my father." Lots of father he can gather. That is not possible. And neither it is possible for direct perception. The only possibility is the mother's evidence. Similarly, as the mother is authority for the child, similarly, the sruti, the Vedas, they are called mother, mother of knowledge.

So for such spiritual knowledge we have to accept the authority. Now, here, the Bhagavad-gita is authority. It is accepted. Don't think that it is a scripture of the Hindus. No. It is for all human beings. There is reason. There is science. There is philosophy. It is not dogmatic. So it is to be understood simply. And not only that, actually it is accepted by all countries. Not only in your country, but in other countries also, Bhagavad-gita is accepted as one of the greatest book of authority. So this is the process. You should know it that the spirit soul, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita,

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

As the soul is within the body and the body is changing every moment, similarly, the last stage of change is called death. Death is nothing but the final change of this present body. That's all. And our death condition is for seven months only. As soon as I leave this body, at once I am injected into other's mother's body according to my karma. I may be injected to a queen's womb; I may be injected to a dog's mother. You see? That is due to my karma. You see? The father is present there. The dog father is present there. The king's father is present there. The devata father is present there. There is no scarcity of father, but it will depend on my karma, which kind of father I shall take shelter. So these things are, have to be accepted from the authoritative scriptures like Srimad Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavata. And then it will be possible for us to understand the things as they are. There is no question of sectarianism. There is no question of this "ism" or that "ism." It is a question of pure knowledge.

Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.13 -- New York, March 11, 1966