Showing posts with label May 30. Show all posts
Showing posts with label May 30. Show all posts

Thursday, January 1, 2015

See The Spirit Soul


30 May 74 , Geneva

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Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami PrabhupadaSrila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
 


Guru-gauranga: (translating from French) In the name of the Canton of Geneva and the city, we wish to extend our heartfelt welcome to you. This republic is an independent state, part of Switzerland, and it has a reputation for being a great center of dialogue between all men of science, philosophy and religion. Geneva is the seat of the World Council of Churches, and there is a Protestant pastor who is there as representative of the Canton of Geneva. Unique among the cities of the world, Geneva has had the privilege to greet many great religious heads such as Pope Paul VI, head of the Russian Orthodox Church, and many others. As civil authorities, we are very much encouraged by religious or spiritual groups because they contribute to wake up the consciousness of the people, provided, of course, that they respect all the laws. For thousands of years, man has tried to find perfection through religious means, and for us what is so much important is that this be done with tolerance, that whatever the books, whether they be the books of India or the Torah or the Koran, that they contribute to a general welfare of all men and not that they fight each other. There is the need currently for men to understand each other better and hear each other better. The modern world neither has the time nor the interest to tolerate divisions between men, especially on the spiritual platform. As a result, everyone must try to improve the fate of the individual man through these means. Should we not, then, try to find some common language with which to solve these problems, all the while respecting the dignity of the common man? And we hope finally that this trip in Europe will give Your Divine Grace new perspectives in the search for the truth.

Prabhupada: I can speak in English?

Guru-gauranga: (he asks in French) The president says that you may speak directly in English, no translation needed.

Prabhupada: So Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen, the kind words that you have spoken to receive me, I thank you very much for the same.(?) Our preaching principle is bhagavata-dharma, and we do not say "This is Christian religion" or "Hindu religion" or "Muhammadan religion." We speak the science of God. So in the Srimad-Bhagavatam there is a verse which says,

sa vai pumsam paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhoksaje
ahaituky apratihata
yenatma samprasidati
 [SB 1.2.6]

"That is first-class religious system which teaches the follower how to love God." It doesn't matter what is the type of religion, religious process. Phalena pariciyate. The thing is proved by the result, how one has learned to love God. Sa vai pumsam paro dharmah. There are two kinds of religious engagements: one is called inferior and the other is called superior. The superior religious system is that which teaches the followers how to love God. Now, what kind of love? That is also expressed there: ahaituki, without any motive, and apratihata. Apratihata means that religious system cannot be checked by any kind of material impediments. If we come to that platform, then atma-atma means the mind, the soul, also the body, intelligence -- everything becomes fully satisfied.

So our this principle of teaching is based on Bhagavad-gita. (aside:) Give him the book. Perhaps you have heard the name of Bhagavad-gita, and some of you might have read it, Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita was spoken in the Battlefield of Kuruksetra to groups of cousin-brothers. They were fighting to occupy the kingdom, and in that place Lord Krsna, who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, happened to be present as the chariot driver of one group, Arjuna. So Arjuna was trying to avoid the fighting because the other side, there were relatives, brothers. At that time he was lamenting his bodily relationship: "The other side is my brother, my grandfather, my nephews, my son-in-laws." So that was the platform of speaking Bhagavad-gita. So first of all, Krsna explained that "We are not this body." The first instruction was given,

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
 [Bg. 2.13]

The first instruction of spiritual life is to understand that "I am not this body." The example is given, very simple thing, that I am present, although I remember that I had a small body lying down on the lap of my mother. I remember, when I was six months old, I was lying down on the lap of my elder sister, and she was knitting. I still remember that. So everyone, we remember that we had a small body, and then another small body, then another small body. Those bodies are gone. I have got a different body now, but I remember that I had all these body. Therefore the conclusion should be for the sober man that "Although we have changed so many bodies, I, the person, the soul, am existing." Therefore Bhagavad-gita says, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. Similarly, when I shall give up this body, I shall accept another body. This is the beginning of understanding, that "I am not this body. I am living in this body just like I am not this coat, but I am living within the coat." There is very vivid example in the Bhagavad-gita. If we read, we can understand that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." When this realization is there, that "I am spirit soul," aham brahmasmi... The exact word used in the Vedic literature, aham brahmasmi. That stage has to be attained in human form of life. In the animal forms of life, this understanding, that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," in the animal stage of life it is not possible to understand. But in the human form of life it is possible because human being is advanced in consciousness and knowledge, and if he is educated, he can understand. And if he actually understands, then his position becomes brahma-bhutah, self-realized, prasannatma. Immediately he becomes jubilant. There is no more any cause of moroseness. That is the symptom. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. Then there is no more hankering or lamentation. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. At that stage, brahma-bhutah stage, we can see everyone, spirit soul. I don't see an American or a Swiss gentleman or a French gentleman or a cat or dog or tree, but I see the spirit soul. That, in that spiritual state, brahma-bhutah stage, samah sarvesu bhutesu, one can see that within this body there is the spirit soul, and he wants to work for benefit of the spirit soul, not for the temporary body.

So our Krsna consciousness movement is just on the principles of this Bhagavad-gita, to understand his real identity, spiritual identity. Panditah sama-darsinah.

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
 [Bg. 5.18]

One who is actually pandita... Pandita means learned, and in spiritually learned (life), he sees that a very learned scholar, brahmana, and a dog, an elephant, a cow, or a low-born man, creature -- all on the same platform of spiritual life. So unless we come to that point, this so-called fighting and sectarianism will go on. So we want to teach people... Not only sectarian people in India or the so-called Hindus or Muslims or Christians. Everyone. Because everyone is spirit soul, and as soon as he understands that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," then he becomes completely happy. Yenatma samprasidati. So people will not be happy, will not be satisfied, unless and until he comes to that spiritual understanding. So our humble method is on this principle, that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." And the spirit soul is eternal; therefore he has got to come to the platform of eternal happiness, eternal life and full knowledge. That is the perfection of life. And any type of religion -- it doesn't matter what it is -- which teaches this philosophy of life, that is first-class religious system. That is our conclusion.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna.

Guru-gauranga: (has conversation with someone in French) The president would like to talk to you for a few minutes.

Prabhupada: Yes. Give me little water. (more French conversation) I was formally received by the French Cardinal.

Guru-gauranga: Danielou.

Prabhupada: Daniel. (French)

Guru-gauranga: He says that the discussion you had with the Cardinal was very interesting.

Prabhupada: Yes. Unless you come to that position of understanding, that "I am not this body," real spiritual knowledge does not begin. (French conversation)

Guru-gauranga: Understanding the philosophy, Monsieur de President does not understand why we find it necessary to dress differently, though.

Prabhupada: The different dress means as you have paid for it. Just like we can go to a tailor, he will supply you dress according to the payment you can make. Similarly, according to our karma, according to our work, we are given a type of body by the material nature. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. According... Because actually I do not possess this material body, but because I am in this material world, I am given a type of body by the material nature according to my work. (French conversation)

Guru-gauranga: Speaking about clothes, Monsieur le President says that he has been to India, and he understands that one dresses like this in India. But why would the disciples dress in America or in Europe in this way? Is it necessary?

Prabhupada: No. It is not necessary. Dress you can have as you like. It doesn't matter, because dress is a dead thing. Real thing is that we want a living being who can understand. That is real the position.

Guru-gauranga: Monsieur le President would like to know, if this movement gets bigger and bigger, won't it create problems in terms of working, the economy? Won't the economy suffer if our movement gets bigger and bigger?

Prabhupada: No. Economy will not suffer, but economy will be simplified because we have made some artificial economy. Actually, in the Bhagavad-gita we find the economic problem is solved by producing food grains. It is stated there, annad bhavanti bhutani: [Bg. 3.14] "By eating food grains, both the animals and the men, they become stout and strong." That's a fact. According to Bhagavad-gita, economic problem can be solved anywhere. If you get, if you have some land, you produce your food grain and give it to the animals, especially to the cows, and she will give you in return milk. So if you get milk, fruits, vegetable and food grains, the whole economic problem is solved. We have already started this example in New Virginia. A group of men, we have got about five hundred acres of land, and we keep cows, and they work to produce some vegetable and food grain. So they don't go outside for solving economic problems. At the present moment -- now I am coming from India -- in Bombay there is strike, railway strike. People are in so miserable condition to go to their work fifty miles, forty miles, hundred miles, for earning their bread. This kind of economic situation has increased the problems of life. Rather, if we accept this economic problem solution, then anywhere, any part of the world, you live. You don't require to go outside, hundred miles, two hundred miles, five hundred miles. No. You produce your food there, keep animals, then everything is solved. Actually, the problem is, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. One should take up these problems very seriously: birth, death, old age and disease. So... Actually, as spirit soul, we have no birth, no death. You will find in the Bhagavad, na jayate na mriyate va kadacit: "The living entity does not take birth." Na jayate na mriyate va: "Neither he dies." Na hanyate hanyamane sarire: [Bg. 2.20] "After the destruction of the body, the living entity does not annihilate. He..." Just like we have got already the example: my body, childhood body, is annihilated; still, I am existing. Similarly, I will exist. Now, the problem is how I shall exist? I shall exist eternally in full knowledge and in blissfulness. That is the idea. But so long we accept this material body, it is just the opposite. It is miserable, without any knowledge and without eternity. Philosophy should be to save our time from complicated economic problems. We should make our life simple and save time for spiritual cultivation so that we can be relieved from repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.

Guru-gauranga: (translating for president) Thank you very much. (end)

Friday, January 18, 2013

Krishna, Kindly Marry Us

Krishna, Kindly Marry Us
Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.31
Honolulu, May 30, 1976

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Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
 
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Pradyumna: "The order carriers of Yamaraja were snatching the soul from the core of the heart of Ajamila, the husband of the prostitute. But with resounding voices the messengers of Lord Visnu, the Visnudutas, forbade them to do so."

Prabhupada:

vikarsato 'ntar hrdayad
dasi-patim ajamilam
yama-presyan visnuduta
varayam asur ojasa
 [SB 6.1.31]

So the Yamadutas were dragging Ajamila -- not this body, but the soul. Body will stay there, but the soul (indistinct). Now wherefrom? Vikarsato antar hrdayad. From the core of the heart. Now, from the sastra you can understand where the soul is. Soul is not in the brain, not in the here, there. No. Therefore when the soul is taken away, going away from the heart, we say "heart failure." Heart failure means the soul has gone. The soul lives in the heart. This is proof from the sastra. Not only the soul, but the Supersoul also is there. Supersoul is God, Krsna, and the individual soul, they're living together. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese [Bg. 18.61]. Isvara, the Supreme Lord, He's also there, very minute form, anor aniyan mahato mahiyan. The dimension of the soul is also mentioned in the sastra: one ten thousandth part of the tip of a hair.

kesagra-sata-bhagasya
satadha kalpitasya ca
jivah bhago sa vijneyah
sa canantyaya kalpate
 [Cc. Madhya 19.140]

Very minute. So just see that minute portion of God is so powerful. Ha? Just like potassium cyanide. Minute quantity, if you take one grain, immediately you'll die. Immediately you die. Similarly, if some ordinary material thing is so powerful, just imagine the spirit soul, how much powerful he is. And they have no machines to find out. How they will find out? One ten-thousandth part of the hair, we cannot see -- the tip of the hair is so small -- and divided into ten-thousandth part. That one part is dimension of the soul. Everything is there in the sastra, Upanisads. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca jivah bhago sa vijneyah [Cc. Madhya 19.140], and... It is very powerful. We can take the example that very minute quantity of potash cyanide. There is no taste. In chemical analysis there is a taste. So up to date, nobody has tasted potash cyanide, because as soon as chemist will taste, immediately, he'll not be able to say what is this. (laughing)

So you have to understand from the sastra, sastra-caksusa. The Vedas say that you have to see through the sastra, through the authoritative sastra. With these blunt eyes what can you see? You're so much anxious. Everyone says, "Can you show me God?" What you can see? What is the power of your eyes? You cannot see even your eyelid. The eyelid is attached to the eye. Can you see? So how you can see God? You're so imperfect. Just like if there is some particle within the eyelid, we become embarrassed. But the eye is attached. Why not see and take it away? This is practical. So what is the power of your eyes? You cannot see the nearest and you cannot see distant place. You cannot see in darkness. So many conditions. So you're always under the conditions, and you declare "Independent." How foolishness it is. Your senses are all imperfect. No senses are perfect. You can use the senses under certain condition only. I'm claiming "This is my hand," and as soon as there is some nervous disability it is paralyzed, finished.

So actually we are claiming that "This is mine," but you have no right to claim it. You're dependent. Suppose if you live in a rented apartment, you cannot claim that this is your apartment. It belongs to the landlord. You're allowed to stay here under certain conditions. You're not proprietor. Similarly, this body is Krsna's. What is this body? Bhumir apo analo vayuh kham mano buddhir.... [Bg. 7.4]. It is constituted of these things: earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and ego. And Krsna says, bhinna me prakrti astadha: "These are Mine, My things." You cannot create water. You cannot create earth. You cannot create fire. You cannot create ether. Nothing. So this body is pancabhuta, five elements. So you have not created. Krsna has created. So how it is your body? It is Krsna's body. He has given you the concession that you can live. "You can live peacefully. You can enjoy the products which are given to you. I have given you food grains. I have given you fruits, flowers. Or, even if you want to eat meat, that also I have given you." You cannot produce an animal. So everything you are eating, given by God. Your body is given by God. Your mind is given by God. And you, you also the soul, you're also part and parcel of God. So what is your independent existence? There is no independent existence. This is knowledge. Not only that. Because you have forgotten that everything belongs to Krsna, He is also sitting within you. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna... [Bg. 18.61]. Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivis... Again He says hrdi, "in the heart." Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivista, mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. Everything is there. The Lord and the living entity, both are within his heart.

So those who are yogis, they want to find out that "God is sitting with me. Let me see by meditation." That is yogi's business. Dhyanavasthita tad gatena manasa pasyanti yam yogina. This is yoga system. Dhyanavasthita tad gatena manasa pasyanti. Not that manufacturing something nonsense, just so that you'll be stout and strong to enjoy sex, or your power of business brain will expand. This is not yoga. These all bluff. Real yoga system is to find out within the heart where is God. My business is that I've forgotten God. The karmis, they..., karmis, real karmis, they do not forget. The upstarts, the rascals, they forget. Karmis also... Just like they go to church or to go to temple, they ask some favor from God. Arto artharthi jnani jijnasuh. Catur-vidha bhajante mam. In the Bhagavad-gita everything explained: four kinds of men begins God consciousness. And what kind of man he is? Sukrtina, one who has background of pious life, not the rogues and rascals. Little pious activities one has done. Ajnata-sukrti. So far everyone has got some charitable disposition of mind, in that disposition of mind, if by chance he gives to some Vaisnava some money, that becomes a credit. That is called ajnata-sukrti. He does not know that "I am getting some..." Of course people, they pay to saintly person, brahmana, that datavyam iti yad dhanam: "Here charity should be given." So that charity goes into his credit. Catur-vidha bhajante mam sukrtino 'rjuna -- those who have got background of pious life. So even one goes to the church, "God, give us our daily bread," he's not ordinary person. He's pious man. He has gone to God to ask. He has not gone to anyone. No. "My Lord, I'm very poor man. I have no money. Kindly give me some money." That also accepted. Of course, he should not be foolish, that "God is giving me everything without asking, so why should I bother God, asking?" That is advanced devotion. Therefore pure devotee, they do not ask anything from God. They simply want to give service. "Why should I ask? God knows my necessities." He says, yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg. 9.22]. My duty is, this body belongs to God, I belong to God, my mind belongs to God, everything belongs to God. And I simply have to offer, "My dear Lord, I have brought this little flower, this fruit, kindly accept it." Nothing belongs to you. The fruit is God's. The flower is God's. You are God's. Simply you have to change your consciousness. This is Krsna consciousness. Everything is given by God. You have not manufactured the fruit or flower or your body or... Nothing. This is Krsna consciousness, when you understand that "Everything belongs to God. Why it should be utilized for other purpose?" It should be utilized for God.

There is another example. Just like somebody drops his money bag, unconsciously drops. So somebody picks up and he thinks, "Oh, here is so much money. Put it in my pocket." (laughter) He's a thief. He's a thief. That is karmi. Karmi is trying to simply take from God's property and putting in his own pocket. That is karmi. "Bring me more. Bring me more. Bring me more." And the jnani, he sees that one purse is there, somebody has left, so "Why shall I touch it? Let it remain there." He doesn't touch anyone's property. Jnani: "Why shall I be criminal? Let it remain." He's jnani. But a bhakta, he finds a purse, so what his duty? He does not put into the back pocket, neither he throws away, let it be there. He finds out, "Who is the proprietor? Who is the proprietor?" So he can ask somebody if anyone has lost anything. So somebody says, "Yes, yes. I have lost my purse." So you can examine whether it belongs to him: "I will now examine it." "Sir, here is the purse." "Yes, it is mine." So these three men, who is best? Ha? The man who takes the purse and puts in his pocket, he, or the man who neglects, brahma satyam jagan mithya, "Why shall I touch? It is mithya. This is false." Eh? He is good? Or whoever puts in the pocket, he is good? Or one who finds out and gives to the proprietor? Who is good?

Devotee: The honest man.

Prabhupada: The last one, devotee. Therefore devotee's business is to know that everything belongs to Krsna; it must be used for Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness. He's neither tyagi or bhogi. Bhogi means takes the thing and utilizes for his own sense gratification. That is called bhogi, sense gratification: "Oh, I have got this bag. Very nice. It will help me in going to the restaurant for (indistinct)." That is bhogi. And tyagi means "Oh, this is all material. Why shall I touch? Aham brahmasmi. I'm Brahman. I am nothing."(laughter) He's better than the rascal who takes the money and uses his own purpose, karmi. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, (Bengali). The jnani, he does not touch anyone's property. That is very good. Then the karmi, because karmi takes other's property and utilizes it for his own purpose. But bhakta is neither karmi nor jnani.

So there are two kinds of religious systems. The karmis... Karma-kanda and jnana-kanda. The Vedas, there are three kandas; therefore Vedas' name is trayi. Trayi means there are three different phases of activities -- karma-kanda, jnana-kanda and upasana-kanda. That is the teaching of the Vedic literature. So when Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja... [Bg. 18.66]. Because there are two kinds of men in this world. One is karmi, and one is jnani. Karmis are trying to use all the money of the world and utilize it for sense gratification. They are karmis, sarva-kamo... They're described in the sastra-sarva-kamo. Akamah sarvo-kama, moksa-kama udara-dhih. So when Krsna says that sarva-dharman patityajya, sarva means "all." So generally, in the material world two things are going on. The karmis are busy try to earn money for their sense gratification, and the jnanis, they've given up the world as mithya. Brahma satyam jagan mithya. "Brahman is truth, and this is all mithya." So Krsna said, "You give up all this business." Mam ekam saranam vraja: "You do everything for Me. That's all. Don't utilize the assets of the world for your sense gratification, neither you give it up as mithya. Why mithya? I've created." Why it should be mithya? Mithya means false. Whatever God has created, that is not false, everything. So our Krsna consciousness view is that everything created by God is not mithya. It is fact. Everything is fact. We don't say unnecessarily, "This is mithya. This is false." Why it is false? God is truth. If He has created anything, that is also truth. Why it should be false? That is Vaisnava view. Truth does not come out of untruth. Truth comes from truth. Something comes from something; something does not come from nothing. This is voidism.

So we should not be impersonalists. We should not be voidists. Nirvisesa sunyavadi. Sunyavadi means voidist, and nirvisesa means impersonalist. The whole world is going on like that. So we should be careful about this voidists and impersonalists. We should take direct instruction from Krsna, and He advises, yat karosi, yat juhosi, yat asnasi, yat tapasyasi kurusva tat mad-arpanam: "You can do whatever you like, but the result should be given to Me." karmany evadhikaras te ma phalesu kada... "Then you become Krsna conscious." Of course, Krsna does not advise that "You become a thief, and all the money stolen, you bring to Me." He does not say that. That is not. But even if you are a thief, still you can offer. Don't use it for your sense gratification. Yat karosi. "Whatever you've got. If you cannot earn honestly, dishonestly, you give it to Me."

So this is Krsna consciousness, and from this verse we can understand that the atma, the soul, is within the heart. Why they are searching the soul? So the... If you want to find out where is soul, and if you dissect the heart, then soul is gone. (laughter) That is another danger. (laughs) Better understand from the authority. That is knowledge. Sastra-caksusa. Sastra... From authoritative statement of sastra you'll see. Don't see by your blunt eyes, rascal, this consciousness. Then you'll never find the actual fact. Sastra-caksusa, authority. Just like here. Sastra says, "Here is the soul." The Yamaraja is snatching, dragging the soul, not his leg or hand. There's no business. As soon as the soul is gone, the leg and hand and everything becomes a lump of matter. That's all. What is the use of it? So vikarsato 'ntar hrdayad, antar-hrdayad, core of heart. Antar means within the heart. Antar-hrdayad dasi-patim. Nowadays, sometimes one becomes a prostitute. That is very usual now. But in India still, nobody will marry a prostitute. Nobody. Still. In the Western country, never mind he's a prostitute, she's a prostitute, if she marries -- Ph.D. certificate, that's all. So this is old custom. Once one girl becomes prostitute, she'll never be touched. Krsna married sixteen thousand wives. Krsna can do anything. That is another thing. So these sixteen thousand girls were kidnapped by that Bhaumasura. So without finding any way how to escaped from this asura's hand, they appealed to Krsna that "You save us. This is our position." So Krsna is bhakta-vatsala. He came and released them and killed the Bhaumasura and asked them, "Now you can go to your father's house." So they began to cry. Why? "Now our fathers will not accept us because we have been kidnapped." Just see. "We have been kidnapped. I have no right to go to the father. And we're not married also." "Then, what you want?" "You kindly marry us." "All right. Come on." (laughter) This is Krsna. Yes. "You have no shelter. You're taking My shelter? Come on. I shall give you all palaces. Come on." This is Krsna. Take shelter of Krsna. Never mind what is your position. Krsna will accept you and give you all comfort. Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami [Bg. 18.66]. He will not kick out, even you are a prostitute. "I will give you protection." So why shall..., we should not take shelter of Krsna? This is very natural conclusion.

Thank you very much. (end)
 
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.31 -- Honolulu, May 30, 1976
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Wednesday, July 11, 2012

A Devotee Is Kind

A Devotee Is Kind
Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.13
Los Angeles, May 30, 1972

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Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
 
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Pradyumna: (leads chanting)

saunaka uvaca
ity abhivyahrtam raja
nisamya bharatarsabhah
kim anyat prstavan bhuyo
vaiyasakim rsim kavim

Prabhupada: (interrupts the chanting of the verse to correct) It should be pronounced like "it yabhi vyahrtam raja." It yabhi vyahrtam raja. It yabhi vyahrtam raja nisamya bharatarsabhah. Like that. Go on. (chanting continues) That's all. Now, word meaning. (synonyms are read)

Pradyumna: Translation: "Saunaka said: The son of Vyasadeva, Srila Sukadeva Gosvami, was a highly learned sage and was able to describe things in a poetic manner. What did Maharaja Pariksit again inquire from him after hearing all that he said?"

Prabhupada: So Vaisnava, Sukadeva Gosvami, is learned and poet. So these are the qualifications of Vaisnava. As you know, there are twenty-six qualifications mentioned in the Caitanya-caritamrta, and one of the qualifications is kavi, poet. Every Vaisnava in our disciplic succession, all the Vaisnavas... In the later ages, within 200 years... During Caitanya Mahaprabhu's time, there were Vrndavana dasa Thakura, Vaisnava, Locana dasa Thakura, Kavi-karnapura. They were all big poets. Later on, Vidyapati, Candidasa. No, Candidasa before Lord Caitanya. Jayadeva. He also, before Lord Caitanya. All big, big kavis. The Jayadeva kavi's, this pralaya-payodhi-jale dhrtavan asi vedam **. So a Vaisnava devotee of the Lord is expected to have all good qualities. The more you become advanced in Krsna consciousness, all the good qualities that were covered by the cloud of maya will come out. Good qualities are already there. Just like Krsna has got sixty-four good qualities in full, and we are minute particles of Krsna; therefore we have got also those good qualities in minute particles. But these good qualities are now covered. Just like fire is covered by the ashes. So it does not act. Although there is fire, but when it is covered with ashes, it does not act. So we are fire. Krsna is fire; we are also fire, in quality. There is a very... There is a big fire, blazing fire, and the sparks. The sparks are also fire. Therefore we sometimes desire to imitate Krsna. Because we have got these qualities in minute quantity, so we think that "I am God, I have become." But we do not know the quantitative difference. That we forget. We can say we are God, but teeny God, not the Supreme. Spark. Fire, blazing fire, and the spark. Now, this quality, fire, this also becomes almost unseen when we are in this material world. Just like if the fire sparks fall down out of the blazing fire, it becomes extinguished. So in order to ignite again our fiery quality, we must go back to the original fire. Then the fiery quality, the brilliant fiery quality, will again be exhibited.

This is Krsna consciousness movement. So when we are in the process of going back to home, back to Godhead, out of so many qualities, twenty-six qualities becomes very... At least, they become manifest. And out of the twenty-six qualities, one quality is to become a poet. Poet is. Nobody can become poet unless he is poet. So kavi. And rsi. Rsi, muni, rsi, those who are philosophers, learned scholars, they are called muni, rsi. So? Read the purport.

Pradyumna: "A pure devotee of the Lord automatically develops all godly qualities, and some of the prominent features of those qualities are as follows: He is kind, peaceful, truthful, equable, faultless, magnanimous, mild, clean, nonpossessive, a well-wisher to all, satisfied, surrendered to Krsna, without hankering, simple, fixed, self-controlled, a balanced eater, sane, mannerly, prideless, grave, sympathetic, friendly, poetic, expert, and silent. Out of these twenty-six prominent features..."

Prabhupada: So with the advancement of our spiritual consciousness, Krsna consciousness, we should verify "Whether these qualifications are becoming manifest in my person." Just like when you eat, you understand that you are getting strength, or your appetite is being satisfied. Nobody can... Nobody requires to ask certificate. You can understand, yourself. Bhaktih paresanubhavo viraktir anyatra syat [SB 11.2.42]. If we are advancing in Krsna consciousness, then our detachment for material things will, attachment for material things will decrease. This is one side. Viraktir anyatra syat. Just like our students, they have become averse to so many things. You are all young boys and girls. So many young boys and girls are going to restaurant, to cinema, and so many other things, but you have become detached; you have no more attraction. So one side... Progress of bhakti means one side we shall be detached and another side we shall increase our attachment. So these are the qualifications.

The first qualification is kind. Just like these sannyasis. Our Rupanuga Gosvami. He has got a nice child, wife, nice wife. But, being kind to the humanity, he has accepted sannyasa. This is kindness. No homely comfort. This is kindness. Lokanam hita-karinau. Tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tuccha-vat bhutva dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina-kanthasritau. Rupa Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami, they were ministers. Ministers. Not ordinary men. And therefore their association was most aristocratic. Mandala-pati-srenim. Mandala-pati means big, big man, who have got many followers, leaders of the society. So, he gave up that association, tuccha-vat, "Eh, what is this nonsense?" Gave up, Rupa Gosvami. Tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tuccha-vat. Tuccha means very insignificant, "What is this?" Then what did they do? What he became? Bhutva dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina-kanthasritau. You have seen Rupa Gosvami's picture. Only a little cloth. Kantha. Kantha means handmade quilt. All rejected cloth, they are put together and sewn; it is called kantha. They utilize even rejected cloth. That is called kantha.

So this Rupa Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami, accepted this mendicant life although they were ministers, very rich men. Not only Rupa Gosvami, all the Gosvamis. Raghunatha dasa Gosvami was the only son of his father and uncle, and in those days the income was twelve lakhs, twelve hundred thousands of rupees. Almost king. So for being compassionate with these poor fellows, who have forgotten Krsna and working simply unnecessarily so hard to get some bread... That's all. Mudha. So by becoming kind upon them, they took this mendicant order. Therefore kindness. And peaceful. Vaisnava is never turbulent. But the demons, they create disturbance. Vaisnava is peaceful. Peaceful, truthful. Truthful. A Vaisnava knows the ultimate truth, Krsna. Therefore he's truthful. And equable. He has no distinction "Oh, here is a man, here is an animal. The animal has no soul, the man has soul."

They have no such conclusion. Every living entity has soul. As Krsna says, sarva-yonisu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]. So he's kind not only to the human society. These philanthropists, altruists, nationalists, "this-ists, that-ists." This... They are partial. First of all, they may be kind... They are not kind. They are all selfish. But even though they are kind, they are kind to their own men. Not even outsiders. Not to the outsiders. In your country, they'll throw away grains. But there are so many hungry people; why they should not give? Produce more, if you have got land. You have got men. And they are not producing, they are (not?) engaging. The men are becoming hippies and they're lying idle, without any production. God has given so much land. Produce. Distribute prasadam. This is kindness.

But because they are not Krsna conscious, they cannot be kind. Faultless. You cannot find any fault of the devotee. Faultless. Magnanimous. Thinking of all living entities. There is no distinction, "Oh, I am American, I shall think for the Americans." "I am Indian, I shall think for..." No. Magnanimous. And the most magnanimous is Lord Caitanya. Namo maha-vadanyaya krsna-prema-pradaya te [Madhya 19.53]. Magnanimous. Giving krsna-prema, which is very rare. Krsna says, manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. It is very difficult to understand what is Krsna, and Lord Caitanya is distributing Krsna like anything. Therefore maha-vadanyaya, magnanimous. Mild. Mild and meek. Clean. Always cleanliness. Because you have surpassed the stage of brahminical life. Therefore, must be very clean. By taking bath, by washing cloth, keeping the kitchen very clean, everything clean. Temple... Tan-mandira-marjanadau. Sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana-srngara-tan-mandira- marjanadau **. The temple should be bright always, clean. Then nonpossessive. Materialistic persons, they are trying to possess more, more, more. A Vaisnava, simply what is absolutely necessary, must have.

Just like we don't keep any furniture in our hou... What is the use of furniture? We can lie down on the floor. So many things, materialistic persons they possess. But we try to simplify matters, plain living. Well-wisher to all. Well-wisher. Just like we are advising our all students that "Save your country. They are becoming hippies. It is not... Future is very gloom. Try to save them." So Vaisnava will always think like that, how people will be happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. Vaisnava desire is not exploitation. Vaisnava desire is that "How others will be happy, how they will understand Krsna, how they will get happiness in this life and next life." This is Vaisnava. Satisfied, in any condition. Not that "I must have all these things; then I'll be satisfied. Otherwise, I'm going from the temple." (laughter.) No, this is not Vaisnava qualification. You must live with the devotees, even if you are not satisfied. Any condition, you should be satisfied. Because as soon as you leave the company, you become again rogues, again demons.

At least you'll be saved if you keep with the company of the devotees. Satam prasangan mama virya-samvidah. If you give up the company, then you again become rogues and demons. Therefore you must be satisfied, in whatever condition. "Whatever Krsna has given, that's all right." Satisfied. Surrendered to Krsna. And that satisfaction can be achieved only when one is fully surrendered to Krsna. If I have surrendered to Krsna, Krsna has taken my charge, Krsna says, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami, then why shall I bother myself? If I am thinking, "I am suffering," it is also Krsna's grace. We should take like that. Even in my consideration, I am in a position which is apparently suffering, we must accept as Krsna's grace: "All right, I have surrendered to Krsna. If Krsna is giving me suffering, that's all right." That is surrender. "Oh, I have surrendered to Krsna, and now Krsna is giving me suffering? Oh, leave Krsna consciousness." That is not surrender.

Surrender means in any condition you'll remain surrendered. That is
surrender. Not that I put my own condition, and if you satisfy me, then I shall... That is business. That is not surrender. Surrender means in any condition, fully surrendered to Krsna. Without hankering. What is hankering? Why shall I be hankering? I know, Krsna will give me all protection. So then why shall I hanker? Without hankering. Simple. No duplicity. Simple. The worldly men, they are duplicatous (?), speaking something, cheater. That is the, one of the qualification of the materialistic man. He must be cheater. There are four defects: commit mistakes, to be illusioned, to become cheater, and imperfect senses. This is called material life, conditioned life. He must commit mistakes. However a great philosopher... We are talking about the philosophers. So many contradictory things they say. Because he's an ordinary man. How he can say the right thing? It is not possible. The right thing can be said only by liberated person.

Therefore we take advice from the liberated person. Just like we are understanding all this from Vyasadeva, from Sukadeva Gosvami. They are liberated. We are not reading some Mr. John R. Mead's (?) book. No. Liberated soul. So that should be our source of knowledge. Mannerly, prideless, grave. Grave means don't talk nonsense. Don't talk nonsense. Don't waste time. If you have got time, chant Hare Krsna, but don't talk nonsense. Grave, that is called gravity. Grave, sympathetic. We should be very much sympathetic. If some of our fellow men fall sick, we must take care of him, give help him. Because, after all, we have got this body. Sometimes we may fall sick. So one, we should be sympathetic. And friendly. Everyone friend. As Krsna is friend of everyone, suhrdam sarva-bhutanam, so if we are Krsna's representative, how I can be enemy of anyone else? I must be friendly. Friendly. Poet. And expert. And silent. Silent worker, not advertising. Silent. These are the qualifications of Vaisnava. So we must try to follow; not imitate, but follow. Follow, that is nice. Then?

Pradyumna: "Out of these twenty-six prominent features of a devotee, as described by Krsnadasa Kaviraja in his Caitanya-caritamrta, the qualification of being poetic is especially mentioned herein in relation to Sukadeva Gosvami. The presentation of Srimad-Bhagavatam by his recitation is the highest poetic contribution. He was a self-realized learned sage. In other words, he was a poet amongst the sages. "

Prabhupada: So? Next verse?

Pradyumna: (leads chanting)

etac chusrusatam vidvan
suta no 'rhasi bhasitum
katha hari-kathodarkah
satam syuh sadasi dhruvam

Prabhupada: That's all. Have kirtana. ( devotees offer obeisances) Begin... (end)
 
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.13-14 -- Los Angeles, May 30, 1972
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Sunday, January 30, 2011

"How To Become An Ideal Person"

66/05/30 New York, Bhagavad-gita 3.21-25

Prabhupada: All glories to the assembled devotees. All glories to the assembled devotees.

Yaj-jihvagre nama tubhyam. Aho bata sva-paco 'to gariyan yaj-jihvagre nama tubhyam: "A person, whatever he may be, even he is very low born, but if he utters the holy name of God by his tongue, he becomes the glorious person." Sva-pacah atah. Sva-paca. Sva means dog, and pacah... Pacah means one who eats dogs. In India the dog-eaters are considered to be the lowest class of men, dog-eaters. So sva-pacah. sva-pacah means the dog-eaters. So even the dog-eaters, even if he is a dog-eater, it doesn't matter. If he can chant the holy name of Lord, then he becomes glorious. Aho bata sva-paco 'to gariyan yaj-jihvagre nama tubhyam. So this Hare Krsna chanting is glorious, and anyone who chants this, he becomes glorious.

So Lord Krsna says that

yad yad acarati sresthas
tat tad evetaro janah
sa yat pramanam kurute
lokas tad anuvartate
[Bg. 3.21]

Yad yad: "Whatever is practiced by the principal or the superiors..." In every society, in every country, there are certain class of men who are considered the leaders or the superior men. So Lord Krsna says that whatever is practiced by the top list men, that is followed by the ordinary class of men. Sa yat pramanam kurute. And the top list man, whatever he adopts or whatever scripture or whatever instruction he admits, lokas tad anuvartate. Ordinary class of men, they generally follow. The whole idea is that Krsna wants Arjuna to become an ideal person, ideal person, so that ordinary men can follow. And generally the practice is also the same. Any leader, if the leader of the people, they are ideal, he is ideal... A leader of the man, if he is ideal, the followers also become ideal. And if the leader of the society or country is not an ideal man, then the followers or the countrymen or the members of the society, they are also of the same type.

Now, Krsna says,

na me parthasti kartavyam
trisu lokesu kincana
nanavaptam avaptavyam
varta eva ca karmani
[Bg. 3.22]

"Now see, Arjuna. I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I have nothing to do in this world for gaining something." Everyone does some-thing with the purpose of some gain. Without gain nobody works -- either spiritual gain or material gain. Somebody works for material gain, and somebody works for spiritual gain. There must be some gain. But Lord Krsna, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Supreme Personality of Godhead means He is full with opulence, all opulence. Now, what are the things we, generally, people aspire after? People, generally they want wealth. They want riches. They want to be very highly rich man, accumulate wealth, millions and millions of rupees. Then somebody wants to become very strong man. Somebody wants to become very beautiful man. Somebody wants to become very learned man. Somebody wants to be very famous man, so on. There are six opulences. I have discussed in this hall many times.

Aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasah sriyah (Visnu Purana 6.5.47). There are six kinds of opulences -- means wealth, strength, beauty, knowledge, and renunciation. Renunciation is also considered as opulence. Somebody has got immense money, immense wealth, but at once he renounces everything and becomes a mendicant, for some cause, of course. There are many instances in political field. Somebody, for political emancipation, he gives up everything, all homely comforts, and everything renounces and becomes a very famous man in the political field. Similarly, there are men in the spiritual field also. They renounces everything for achievement of spiritual perfection. So renunciation is also one of the opulences. So wealth, strength, beauty, knowledge, renunciation -- so these things are opulences. Now, Lord Krsna, He says that "I have nothing to gain, all these opulences." But because the definition of God is one who has got in full all these opulences, He is God. The definition of God is like that in the Vedic literature. Everything has got a definition. So the definition of God is that aisvaryasya samagrasya. One who possesses full wealth, full wealth, and full strength, full fame, full beauty, full knowledge and full renunciation -- He is God.

So Lord Sri Krsna proved. When Lord Sri Krsna was present amongst ourselves, from the history we can see that... If we have to believe the history, then He was in full in everything. He was full in everything. So far as a householder also, when Lord Krsna displayed His capacity as a householder... You will be surprised. Perhaps most of you know that He married 16,108 wives. Sixteen thousand... So somebody may be surprised that "How a person can marry 16,108 wives?" Yes. A ordinary person like us or a little more strong person, that is not possible. But when the word omnipotency is applied... God is called omnipotency, so for Him nothing is impossible. So if we have to believe the history, then Lord Sri Krsna married 16,108 wives, and He built 16,108 palaces also, well-decorated, fully equipped, all-marble palaces. And there was no need of light. The palaces were so nicely decorated with jewels that the light focused by the jewels, that will illuminate the house. And another thing -- He was present in every house simultaneously. Sixteen thousand wives and sixteen thousand houses -- He was present in sixteen thousand expansions by Himself. So that is called opulence. These are the opulences. So Lord Krsna was full.

Now, when Lord Krsna was present on the battlefield of Kuruksetra, He was very old man. He was very old man, although you see His picture just like a young man of twenty years old. But you have seen. Some of you must have seen the picture of Krsna of battlefield. Arjuna is sitting on the chariot, and Krsna is the chariot driver. Arjuna and Krsna was of the same age, but Arjuna looks older; Krsna looks younger. And Krsna at that time had great-grandchildren. His grandchildren and His grandchildren's children were present at that time, and the whole family extended to about ten millions.

So this may be astonishing, but for God is nothing astonishing. If it is a fact that everyone is the son of God... Sarva-yonisu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayo yah [Bg. 14.4]. You will find in the Bhagavad-gita that "In every species of life, in whatever form you may see them, I am the father of all of them." Now, if He is the father of all living beings, just calculate how many living beings there are throughout the whole universe or in the creation. In comparison to that, if He displayed that He had only ten millions of sons and grandsons and grandchildren, that was nothing more. So these are things. Krsna was equipped in that way.

So He says that "Partha, My dear Arjuna, I have nothing to give. Don't think that I am here in the battlefield to assist you just for some remuneration or for some gain because I can have anything and everything at My will only." Na me parthasti kartavyam: "Therefore I have no fixed duty." In the Upanisad you will find the definition of Brahman. Na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate: "The Supreme Brahman has nothing to do." That is the distinction. We have got everything to do. Suppose we want spiritual perfection. So we have to do something. We have to perform something. We have to act practically. We have to go, accept penance, we have to accept... Just like we are trying to chant

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

So the idea is that "I may be elevated to the perfect position." So anything, if we desire, we have to do something. But the definition of Brahman and God is that He has nothing to do. The Veda, Upanisad, say. Na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate: "He has nothing to do." Still, He is God.

Not that one becomes God by doing something. Nowadays it has been practiced to say that "I have meditated so many years, I have undergone so much penance. Then I have become now God." Oh, God is not manufactured in that way. God cannot be manufactured. Now, Krsna, when He was in the lap of His mother, He was God at that time also, not that He had to grow up and undergo some penance and austerity and vows and go to the jungle or Himalaya or accept some very great spiritual master and so on, so on; then He became God, as it has been now the practice, that anyone who... He's a little advanced in spiritual life, and if he can display some wonders, oh, he at once becomes God. So God is not so cheap thing. Simply by playing some wonders...

Just like the other day I narrated the story of Durvasa Muni. Durvasa Muni was a great yogi. The yogis can display many wonders, many wonders. In my childhood I had got one tutor. So he was telling about his spiritual master. He was a yogi. That... He said that when he visited his spiritual master who was a yogi, his spiritual master asked him, "What do you want to eat?" And because my teacher knew that his spiritual master was a great yogi, he wanted to have a taste of pomegranate of Kabul. In India pomegranate of Kabul, Afghanistan, that is very famous. So his spiritual master said, "Yes, you will find it in this room. You can see it." So he saw that just it has been taken from the tree of pomegranate, and the juice was falling down. You see? So these wonders can be played by a yogi. You see? There are many yogis still living; they can manufacture gold. They can manufacture gold. The process is that they can eat, I mean to say, what is called? Para. What is the English of para, that liquid metal, white?
Rayarama: Mercury?

Prabhupada: Mercury. Yes. (chuckles) Yes. Mercury. They eat mercury. They eat mercury, and after, the next morning, they pass urine, and in that urine they put some copper coins, just like you have got, cents. And when it is heated, the copper coins becomes gold. And it is a chemical, theoretical truth that the mercury, molecules of mercury, the molecules of gold are almost similar. Only one molecule is different. So mercury can be turned into gold. That is a chemical fact. And we have got information from Vedic scripture that formerly gun metal, gun metal mixed with mercury, could be transformed into gold. So these are some of the chemical process, physical process, which is being done by scientific advancement of knowledge. There are many yogis who can do by yogic power. Just like by physical process...

Now people are trying to travel in the space, but the yogis can travel in the space very swiftly, more swifter than any sputnik. Just like the other day I narrated, the Durvasa Muni traveled all over the space in the universe and outside the universe, and he came back within one year. So therefore Krsna's another name is Yogesvara. Yogesvara. There are many yogis and many yogic principle, but Krsna is the master of all yoga. So if ordinary yogis, they can display some wonders, so why not Krsna? He is the Yogesvara; He is the lord of all yogis. So by performance of this yoga-prakriya(?), or the yogic mystic powers, one cannot become God. God is different from all of them. So Krsna was that God. So His manifestations, His work...

Now, here He says which I was going to explain from Vedic scripture. So Krsna says, na me parthasti kartavyam: "I have nothing to do." He has nothing to do; still, He is so powerful? Yes. That is confirmed in the Vedic scripture, that Brahman, the nature of Brahman, is described like this, na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate: "The nature of Brahman is that He has nothing to do." He has nothing to do. That is the difference between God and ourself. We have to do everything to achieve a certain aim, but God has nothing to do. Na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate na tat-samas cabhyadhikas ca drsyate: "And nobody is found who is equal to Him and or greater than Him." Nobody is found. These are the definition in the Vedic literature, that "God has nothing to do. Nobody is equal to Him, and nobody is greater than Him."

That means everyone is below Him. Everyone is below Him. Nobody can be equal with God. Even such great demigods like Siva and Brahma... They are considered to be the highest demigods. Still, in the scriptures it is said that nobody should place all these demigods, even Siva and Brahma, on equal footing with Visnu, Visnu the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or Krsna. So Krsna has nothing to do. God, who is actually God, He has nothing to do. He has nothing to do. He is God from the very beginning. And He is all-powerful with all opulences. That is the God. So Krsna says, "I have nothing to do," trisu lokesu kincana, "not only in this earth, but in the three worlds, anywhere, anywhere I can go, anywhere I can work, anywhere I can see. But still, I have nothing to do."

Na anavaptam avaptavyam: "It is not that I am deficient in My possession." We work because we find deficient ourself. In any power, in any, either spiritual power or material power, we have to work because we are deficient. So Krsna is not deficient so that He has to fill up the deficiency. No. Na anavaptam. So still, varta eva ca karmani. Now, He says that "Arjuna, you see that still, I have engaged Myself in the worldly duties." Why? Just to become the ideal man. Although He was not man, He was God, because He was playing the part of a man, therefore He was...

Why He was taking part in the battlefield? He had nothing to gain out of it personally, but why He was taking part in the battlefield? Just for the right cause. So He wanted to establish that for right cause there must be fighting. You cannot abolish violence from the world. This is the instruction of Krsna in Bhagavad-gita. If required, violence will be taken. And Krsna induced Arjuna to be violent. Arjuna wanted to be nonviolent, but He wanted that "You should. You must fight. This fight is arranged by Me." So these examples.

These are the examples. Nothing is bad... Nothing is good if it is not purposeful. That is the whole purpose of teaching Bhagavad-gita. Nothing is good; nothing is bad. Everything is good, everything is bad, in this material world, but we have to see. Just like the common phrase goes, "The end justifies the means. The end justifies the means." So that is Krsna teaching here that He has nothing to gain. He is full in Himself. But just to set examples in the world He was taking part in the fighting because He wanted to establish it that fighting for good cause should not be avoided. That was His mission.

Then further He says,

yadi hy aham na varteyam
jatu karmany atandritah
mama vartmanuvartante
manusyah partha sarvasah
[Bg. 3.23]

Manusyah. Now just see. Here it is said. Manusyah means all men. All men. So Krsna is not for a particular society or particular religious community or particular country or particular time. No. Krsna is the leader of all men for all the time in all the countries in all the worlds and all the universes. So He is not a sectarian Personality of Godhead. We should know. Manusyah. Manusyah, it is plural number: "All men." All men. So He said, "If I do not set example by My practical work, then because I am the leader of all men, all living entities, they will be wrongly directed." Wrongly directed.

Now, actually we see also. At least in India we have got this experience. Now, this Bhagavad-gita... The Bhagavad-gita, we always... We must always remember that it is being taught in the actual battlefield. Now, a great personality like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove from Bhagavad-gita nonviolence. He was... He was in favor of the doctrine of nonviolence. Now, you have seen Mahatma Gandhi's picture that he is always standing with Bhagavad-gita like this. So Bhagavad-gita was his life and soul practically. And in the morning he was having Bhagavad-gita class; in the evening he was having Bhagavad-gita class. So that was his life and soul. But unfortunately he interpreted Bhagavad-gita in his own way. Although he took Bhagavad-gita as his life and soul, so, but he interpreted it in his own way. That is not the way of understanding Bhagavad-gita. Therefore such a great man and such a good man... He was not only a great man; he was very good man in the worldly estimation. His character, his behavior, his dealing -- everything was good. He was ideal personality. But just see. He was killed by violence. He could not stop violence.

Rupanuga: He was killed by violence?

Prabhupada: Yes. He was killed by violence. And his idea... He wanted to make Hindu-Muslim unity in India. The British government fabricated the Hindu-Muslim riots, and lastly, at last also, their purpose was fulfilled by partition of India, Pakistan and India. Now, Mahatma Gandhi worked throughout his whole life just to make a unification of the Hindus and Muslims. Unfortunately, at last, he had to see that the Hindus and Muslims of India were divided into Pakistan and India. And his nonviolence also failed.

So, because if we do not follow the right person, mahajana -- mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186] -- then however I may be great in the estimation of the innocent public, that is wrong path. That is wrong path. Therefore the right thing is to follow the succession. Now, we have to follow the principle which Krsna sets. Krsna is not advocating, I mean to say, nonviolence. You cannot eradicate violence from this world. That is not possible because Krsna Himself is on the battlefield and He is trying to induce Arjuna. Arjuna is declining and He is inducing, "No, you must fight." Yad yad acarati sresthah. So we have to follow the footprints of great personalities. Dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam. Mahajana. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam you will find that it has been advised that religious principles should be followed by taking the life examples of great personalities. Religious principles...

It has been described in the Bhagavata that tarko 'pratisthah. If you want to establish religious truth, you cannot establish it by your logic and argument. It is not possible because I may be a very perfect religious man, but I may not be a very good arguer; another strong man who can argue very strongly, who knows logic very nicely, he can defeat me. He can make my all conclusion null and void. So therefore, simply by argument or logical conclusion one cannot reach to the truth, to the religious truth. It is not possible. Tarko 'pratisthah srutayo vibhinnah. Srutayah means revealed scriptures. Revealed scriptures. Just like in the world there are many revealed scriptures. There are Vedas, Puranas, the Bible, the Koran, and there are so many religious scriptures also. And if you go on reading them, although the aim is one, still, you will find some discrepancy from one to another. Srutayo vibhinnah. Vibhinnah means they are diverse. They are diverse. Srutayo vibhinna nasav rsir yasya matam na bhinnam. And so far philosophers are concerned, one philosopher tries to defeat another philosopher. That is the philosophical way. So nasav rsir yasya matam na bhinnam, dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam. Therefore this truth of religion is very confidential. Nihitam guhayam. Guhayam means it is very confidential.

Now, how to know it? Now, mahajano yena gatah sa panthah: [Cc. Madhya 17.186] "You just try to find out great men, great men of religious life, and you just try to follow." Now, you may have in your own ideal some great men. No. They are also checked. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam twelve different personalities have been described that "These persons are great men." So we have to follow their principle and, or their, in the principle in their disciplic succession. Then we can fulfill. The same thing is here also described. Yad yad acarati sresthas lokas tad anuvartate. And Sri Krsna Himself... Undoubtedly Sri Krsna is the greatest personality in those days and still now also. Still, in all, not only in India, in all parts of the world, Sri Krsna is accepted as the greatest leader of philosophical presentation of this Bhagavad-gita. Every nation, every country reads it very minutely. So undoubtedly He is a great leader. Now, if we follow Krsna, not only we are chanting

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

But we have to follow the principles laid down in the Bhagavad-gita. That will make our life successful. Practically we have to apply this, have to apply the principle. Otherwise the whole attempt will be failure.

That is explained in the next verse.

utsideyur ime loka
na kuryam karma ced aham
sankarasya ca karta syam
upahanyam imah prajah
[Bg. 3.24]

"If I do not place idea before the living entities, praja..." Praja means those who have taken birth, they are called praja. Ja means birth. Janma, janma. And praja, prakrsta-rupena ja. Anyone, praja... Just like in a state it is called praja, or citizens, who have taken the birth in that particular place. So similarly, Lord Krsna says that "If I do not set example in My life, then there will be unwanted population." Unwanted population. And actually that has become now in the present world. By not following the principles of God consciousness or Krsna consciousness we have got now unwanted population. Unwanted population. Here it is plainly written, sankarasya ca karta syam. Sankarasya ca means cross-breeding, sankarasya.

According to Vedic rites, the breeding of child is very nicely enunciated. That is called garbhadhana-samskara. Garbhadhana-samskara. Before begetting a child, one has to perform some ceremonies just to make his mind completely pure and sanctified. Both the husband and wife become sanctified, and then they take part in sex life, and that child becomes, comes out a very nice child. So from the very beginning of the birth there are systems how to beget good population. So these things are there.

Now, Krsna says that "If I do not place the ideal life, then the population will be sankara." Sankara means unwanted, creating disturbances always. There will be no peace in the world. And actually we are feeling that there is no peace in the world. Why? Because the population has become unwanted. And by increasing such population the natural sequence will be... There must be. There will be some disease, there will be some famine or there will be some war when the population will be vanquished. That is the law of nature. That is accepted in economics also, Malthusian theory. Perhaps most of you know that whenever there is unwanted population these three things will naturally, by nature's course will appear -- famine, pestilence, and war -- and the population will be finished. So there was some unwanted population at that time also for which Krsna arranged the war, battlefield of war. Battlefield of war. So we have to follow. If we want very good population, very good generation, then we have to follow the principles of Bhagavad-gita.

The principles of Bhagavad-gita is ultimately described, as we will find in the last state,

sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucah
[Bg. 18.66]

That is the real religion. Now, in the Fourth Chapter you will find that Lord says that "I come down in this, as incarnation." Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata: [Bg. 4.7] "I come down whenever there is some flaw in the religious principles." Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata, abhyutthanam adharmasya. The flaw in the religious principle means advancement of irreligiosity. Abhyu tthanam adharmasya. Paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8].

Paritranaya sadhunam. Sadhu. Sadhu means who are actually following the religious principles. They are called sadhu. Sadhu means good men. There is description of sadhu also,

titiksavah karunikah
suhrdah sarva-dehinam
ajata-satravah santah
sadhavah sadhu-bhusanah
[SB 3.25.21]

Sadhu, one who is called sadhu... Sadhu means titiksavah. Titiksavah means very tolerant, very tolerant, very much tolerant. Titiksavah karunikah. At the same time very kind-hearted. We find these two characters in the life of Lord Jesus. He was very much tolerant, at the same time kind to the people in general. You see? So titiksavah karunikah suhrdah sarva-dehinam. And he is friend. A sadhu is friend of all living entities. He is not only friend of the human kind. He is friend of the animals. He is friend of the trees. He is friend of the ants, worms, reptiles, serpents -- everyone. Titiksavah karunikah suhrdah sarva-dehinam. And ajata-satru. And because he is friend of everyone, he has no enemy. But unfortunately the world is so infidel, even to such a sadhu there is enemy. Just like Lord Jesus Christ had some enemies, and Mahatma Gandhi had also some enemies who killed him. So the world is such treacherous. Even a sadhu, he has some enemies. You see? But sadhu, from his side, he has no enemy. He is friend of everyone. Titiksavah karunikah suhrdah sarva-dehinam. And ajata-satravah santah, always peaceful. These are the qualities of sadhu, saintly persons.

So Lord comes down. Paritranaya sadhunam [Bg. 4.8]. His special purpose of coming down as incarnation is to save the sadhus because sadhus are always persecuted by the demons, the demonic class, the atheist class. They are always prepared to persecute the sadhus. The Lord comes -- paritranaya sadhunam -- just to protect the sadhus or the saintly persons, and vinasaya ca duskrtam, and to vanquish the miscreants. That is the mission. When Lord Krsna comes or any incarnation of Lord comes actually, not so-called advertised incarnation... I mean to say that you will find. All the incarnation in the Vedic literature, they are named there, not that anyone can manufacture himself as incarnation. Every incarnation is mentioned in the Vedic scripture, when and how, what kind of work he will do, and what place, which place, and everything in detail is there so that there is chart of the incarnation. Nobody can become an incarnation beyond that chart. There is chart. Just like there will be an incarnation of Kalki, I have several times spoken before you, which will take place about four millions of years later on. Still, His name is mentioned in the Bhagavata, and the place is also mentioned. His father's name is also mentioned. This is called incarnation.

So Lord comes as incarnation for these two purposes: to protect the saintly persons and to annihilate the atheistic demons, and to establish the real purpose of religion. Now, the point was that is the real purpose of religion? That real purpose of religion, now, Krsna said that "I descend for establishing the purpose of religion." Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati, dharma-samsthapanarthaya [Bg. 4.7]. Paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. Duskrtam.

These two things, and the third thing is dharma-samsthapanarthaya, and for the purpose of establishing the principle of religion. Now, in the last word He says that sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66], that "You give up all kinds of religion that you have manufactured. You simply surrender unto Me." So religious principle means to surrender unto God and nothing more. But that's all. That is the real principle of religion. Religion without God consciousness, that is no religion, at least according to Bhagavad-gita. Without God consciousness, without establishing my relationship with the Supreme Lord, there cannot be any religious principle. You may go on advertising some new kind of religious principle, and every day and every moment they are being manufactured in all over the world, and there are so many groups of religious principle, but here, according to Bhagavad-gita, real religious principle means to establish your lost relationship with the Supreme Lord.

We are eternally related with the Supreme Lord, just like the father and the son is eternally related. That relation cannot be cut off. A father may become, a son may become rebellious to his father, but he cannot say that "he is not my father." Is it possible? No, that is not possible. How can it be possible? I may disagree with my father in so many points of view, but if somebody asks you, "Who is your father?" oh, I will have to say the same enemy, who I have taken as my enemy. Similarly, as the father and the son, the relationship cannot be cut off, similarly, our relationship with the Supreme Lord cannot be cut off. It is not possible. If we want to cut off our relationship with the Supreme Lord, or God, by artificial means, then the result will be that we shall be more and more unhappy.

Therefore the principle business of the human civilization is to establish, reestablish the lost relationship. The world is suffering by this lost relationship, godless civilization. That should not be tolerated. People should be taught, they should revive their God consciousness, or Krsna consciousness, by all means and then they will be happy. That is the whole principle. Lord Krsna says that

utsideyur ime loka
na kuryam karma ced aham
sankarasya ca karta syam
upahanyam imah prajah
[Bg. 3.24]

"If I do not set examples in this way, then the whole population of the world will be contaminated, and there will be unwanted population and there will be..." The whole world will appear just like hell. It is not it will be inhabitable for good men.
So therefore, He says, saktah karmany avidvamso yatha kurvanti bharata.

saktah karmany avidvamso
yatha kurvanti bharata
kuryad vidvams tathasaktas
cikirsur loka-sangraham
[Bg. 3.25]

Cikirsur loka-sangraham. Now, somebody is fighting for some personal gain. Now, at the present moment sometimes fighting takes place for some personal ambition. To fulfill some personal ambition. But that was not... That should not be the case. To fulfill one's personal ambition, any risky thing should not be taken. No. Krsna says, "Just like foolish people, they work being too much attached for their sense gratification, similarly, those who are learned, those who are advanced in spiritual knowledge, they also may work similarly, but not for the purpose of sense gratification."

How it is possible? Just like a merchant, a mercantile man, he is doing some business and working very hard day and night to accumulate some money, similarly, a devotee of the Lord also can earn money in the same spirit, working day and night. Superficially it will appear just like this man and that man. There is no difference. They are working the same day and night for earning some money. But the devotee or the man who is established in relationship with God, his expenditure will be different. His expenditure will be not for sense gratification. For advancement of God consciousness. That is the ideal man. There is no harm. If you work, very, very much attached to your business or anyone, that doesn't matter.

The same thing just we have explained before, that the results should be given to God. Just like Rupa Gosvami. Rupa Gosvami... The other day I cited the example. When they retired, they brought home two boats ful of gold coins, millions of rupees. But before retirement they spent 50 percent of the accumulation of wealth for God's cost. And 25 percent he distributed to the relatives. They also expect some money. And 25 percent they kept in the bank for personal needs in some extraordinary times. So here Krsna also said that saktah karmany avidvamsah. Just like fool, those who are after sense gratification, as they are working with full attachment, that "I must have this money. I must accumulate this bank balance and so on, so on," so similarly, yatha kurvanti bharata, as they devote, similarly, vidvams... Vidvan means learned also may work in that way, but he would spend the money in such a way that is example. That is example. That example -- "Oh, such a big man, such a rich man. He distributed his money..." Just like Rupa Gosvami. He distributed his money like this. Oh.

Therefore those who are devotees, those who are following the principles of devotion, they see the ideal. Well, our former acarya or former devotee, I mean to say, guru or spiritual master, he had so much money, and he distributed in this way. The distribution, money, was accepted like that. So people would follow that. So Krsna advises Arjuna that "You also become an ideal man, that you become a fighter for the cause of God. Then you become the ideal man. Your principle will be followed by others."

And that is what I want and therefore I am instructing you. Thank you very much. Now, if you have got any questions, you can put. [break] ...one is checked from doing his rightful duty. That is real violence. In some years ago at Jhansi I was, not in the sannyasa days. I went there, and, by invitation of some friends, and they wanted to give me some lectures. That was Gandhi's birthday, and they asked me to speak on some nonviolence. So I spoke that violence means to check a person from the discharge of his duties. That is violence. That was my viewpoint.

Devotee: To interfere with another's course.

Prabhupada: Yes. Now, every man has got his prime duty of life. If that duty is checked, that is violence. So I wanted to place, and that is a fact from Vedic literature, that human life is meant for realization of God consciousness or reestablishing his relationship, lost relationship, with God. This is the claim of every human being. Human being... I have several times explained to you. The human being is distinct from animal life in this way, that animal, they do not know what is the aim of life. The human life is meant for realizing, self-realization. If any civilization, that is checking people's progress in the matter of self-realization, that is the most virulent type of violence because people are being checked from the natural advancement of life. This human life is the point when one has to end all the miseries of material existence. That is the aim of human life. If people are not educated to that light, if people are misled in other ways, that is the greatest violence committed to the population. And according to the scripture, they are called atma-han. Atma-han means the greatest violence committed to the population. And according to the scripture, they are called atma-han. Atma-han means suicidal, suiciding.

There is a nice verse that just like this material world is accepted as a great ocean. Now, to cross over a great Atlantic Ocean from New York to, I mean to say, Portugal... Just like Columbus came. Now we have got great big ships, but he had to face many dangers. Just it is very difficult to cross over the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean, but if you have got a very good vehicle, ship or anything else, you can very nicely cross over, similarly, the example is given that this material life is a great ocean, and this human body is a good boat. This human body is a good boat for crossing this ocean. And the spiritual master is a good captain. You see? And the instruction of Lord Krsna, or a similar instruction, Vedic instruction, are favorable wind. Just like if you want to cross the Atlantic Ocean from New York, if the wind is blowing westward, then your journey becomes very favorable. So the favorable wind is blowing by this instruction of the Vedas, and there are many stalwart acaryas who are just like the captain, and this human body is just like a good ship.

Now, the living soul who is seated in such a favorable condition, if he does not cross over the material ocean, then he is making suicide. He is making suicide. Sa eva atma-han. So we have to take advantage. We have to take advantage of this favorable condition to end this miserable material existence. And if anyone does not take the advantage, then he is committing suicide. That is the version of Bhagavata. Or... Either he is personally committing suicide or any civilization which is checking this process, that is also violent, the most virulent type of violence, because people are misled. So this is the idea of the scriptures, that human life should be utilized only for spiritual self-realization. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 3.21-25 -- New York, May 30, 1966

Wednesday, August 18, 2010

"See The Spirit Soul"

"See The Spirit Soul"

30 May 74 , Geneva

Guru-gauranga: (translating from French) In the name of the Canton of Geneva and the city, we wish to extend our heartfelt welcome to you. This republic is an independent state, part of Switzerland, and it has a reputation for being a great center of dialogue between all men of science, philosophy and religion. Geneva is the seat of the World Council of Churches, and there is a Protestant pastor who is there as representative of the Canton of Geneva. Unique among the cities of the world, Geneva has had the privilege to greet many great religious heads such as Pope Paul VI, head of the Russian Orthodox Church, and many others. As civil authorities, we are very much encouraged by religious or spiritual groups because they contribute to wake up the consciousness of the people, provided, of course, that they respect all the laws. For thousands of years, man has tried to find perfection through religious means, and for us what is so much important is that this be done with tolerance, that whatever the books, whether they be the books of India or the Torah or the Koran, that they contribute to a general welfare of all men and not that they fight each other. There is the need currently for men to understand each other better and hear each other better. The modern world neither has the time nor the interest to tolerate divisions between men, especially on the spiritual platform. As a result, everyone must try to improve the fate of the individual man through these means. Should we not, then, try to find some common language with which to solve these problems, all the while respecting the dignity of the common man? And we hope finally that this trip in Europe will give Your Divine Grace new perspectives in the search for the truth.

Prabhupada: I can speak in English?

Guru-gauranga: (he asks in French) The president says that you may speak directly in English, no translation needed.

Prabhupada: So Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen, the kind words that you have spoken to receive me, I thank you very much for the same.(?) Our preaching principle is bhagavata-dharma, and we do not say "This is Christian religion" or "Hindu religion" or "Muhammadan religion." We speak the science of God. So in the Srimad-Bhagavatam there is a verse which says,

sa vai pumsam paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhoksaje
ahaituky apratihata
yenatma samprasidati
[SB 1.2.6]

"That is first-class religious system which teaches the follower how to love God." It doesn't matter what is the type of religion, religious process. Phalena pariciyate. The thing is proved by the result, how one has learned to love God. Sa vai pumsam paro dharmah. There are two kinds of religious engagements: one is called inferior and the other is called superior. The superior religious system is that which teaches the followers how to love God. Now, what kind of love? That is also expressed there: ahaituki, without any motive, and apratihata. Apratihata means that religious system cannot be checked by any kind of material impediments. If we come to that platform, then atma-atma means the mind, the soul, also the body, intelligence -- everything becomes fully satisfied.

So our this principle of teaching is based on Bhagavad-gita. (aside:) Give him the book. Perhaps you have heard the name of Bhagavad-gita, and some of you might have read it, Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita was spoken in the Battlefield of Kuruksetra to groups of cousin-brothers. They were fighting to occupy the kingdom, and in that place Lord Krsna, who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, happened to be present as the chariot driver of one group, Arjuna. So Arjuna was trying to avoid the fighting because the other side, there were relatives, brothers. At that time he was lamenting his bodily relationship: "The other side is my brother, my grandfather, my nephews, my son-in-laws." So that was the platform of speaking Bhagavad-gita. So first of all, Krsna explained that "We are not this body." The first instruction was given,

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

The first instruction of spiritual life is to understand that "I am not this body." The example is given, very simple thing, that I am present, although I remember that I had a small body lying down on the lap of my mother. I remember, when I was six months old, I was lying down on the lap of my elder sister, and she was knitting. I still remember that. So everyone, we remember that we had a small body, and then another small body, then another small body. Those bodies are gone. I have got a different body now, but I remember that I had all these body. Therefore the conclusion should be for the sober man that "Although we have changed so many bodies, I, the person, the soul, am existing." Therefore Bhagavad-gita says, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. Similarly, when I shall give up this body, I shall accept another body. This is the beginning of understanding, that "I am not this body. I am living in this body just like I am not this coat, but I am living within the coat." There is very vivid example in the Bhagavad-gita. If we read, we can understand that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." When this realization is there, that "I am spirit soul," aham brahmasmi... The exact word used in the Vedic literature, aham brahmasmi. That stage has to be attained in human form of life. In the animal forms of life, this understanding, that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," in the animal stage of life it is not possible to understand. But in the human form of life it is possible because human being is advanced in consciousness and knowledge, and if he is educated, he can understand. And if he actually understands, then his position becomes brahma-bhutah, self-realized, prasannatma. Immediately he becomes jubilant. There is no more any cause of moroseness. That is the symptom. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. Then there is no more hankering or lamentation. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. At that stage, brahma-bhutah stage, we can see everyone, spirit soul. I don't see an American or a Swiss gentleman or a French gentleman or a cat or dog or tree, but I see the spirit soul. That, in that spiritual state, brahma-bhutah stage, samah sarvesu bhutesu, one can see that within this body there is the spirit soul, and he wants to work for benefit of the spirit soul, not for the temporary body.

So our Krsna consciousness movement is just on the principles of this Bhagavad-gita, to understand his real identity, spiritual identity. Panditah sama-darsinah.

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
[Bg. 5.18]

One who is actually pandita... Pandita means learned, and in spiritually learned (life), he sees that a very learned scholar, brahmana, and a dog, an elephant, a cow, or a low-born man, creature -- all on the same platform of spiritual life. So unless we come to that point, this so-called fighting and sectarianism will go on. So we want to teach people... Not only sectarian people in India or the so-called Hindus or Muslims or Christians. Everyone. Because everyone is spirit soul, and as soon as he understands that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," then he becomes completely happy. Yenatma samprasidati. So people will not be happy, will not be satisfied, unless and until he comes to that spiritual understanding. So our humble method is on this principle, that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." And the spirit soul is eternal; therefore he has got to come to the platform of eternal happiness, eternal life and full knowledge. That is the perfection of life. And any type of religion -- it doesn't matter what it is -- which teaches this philosophy of life, that is first-class religious system. That is our conclusion.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna.

Guru-gauranga: (has conversation with someone in French) The president would like to talk to you for a few minutes.

Prabhupada: Yes. Give me little water. (more French conversation) I was formally received by the French Cardinal.

Guru-gauranga: Danielou.

Prabhupada: Daniel. (French)

Guru-gauranga: He says that the discussion you had with the Cardinal was very interesting.

Prabhupada: Yes. Unless you come to that position of understanding, that "I am not this body," real spiritual knowledge does not begin. (French conversation)

Guru-gauranga: Understanding the philosophy, Monsieur de President does not understand why we find it necessary to dress differently, though.

Prabhupada: The different dress means as you have paid for it. Just like we can go to a tailor, he will supply you dress according to the payment you can make. Similarly, according to our karma, according to our work, we are given a type of body by the material nature. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. According... Because actually I do not possess this material body, but because I am in this material world, I am given a type of body by the material nature according to my work. (French conversation)

Guru-gauranga: Speaking about clothes, Monsieur le President says that he has been to India, and he understands that one dresses like this in India. But why would the disciples dress in America or in Europe in this way? Is it necessary?

Prabhupada: No. It is not necessary. Dress you can have as you like. It doesn't matter, because dress is a dead thing. Real thing is that we want a living being who can understand. That is real the position.

Guru-gauranga: Monsieur le President would like to know, if this movement gets bigger and bigger, won't it create problems in terms of working, the economy? Won't the economy suffer if our movement gets bigger and bigger?

Prabhupada: No. Economy will not suffer, but economy will be simplified because we have made some artificial economy. Actually, in the Bhagavad-gita we find the economic problem is solved by producing food grains. It is stated there, annad bhavanti bhutani: [Bg. 3.14] "By eating food grains, both the animals and the men, they become stout and strong." That's a fact. According to Bhagavad-gita, economic problem can be solved anywhere. If you get, if you have some land, you produce your food grain and give it to the animals, especially to the cows, and she will give you in return milk. So if you get milk, fruits, vegetable and food grains, the whole economic problem is solved. We have already started this example in New Virginia. A group of men, we have got about five hundred acres of land, and we keep cows, and they work to produce some vegetable and food grain. So they don't go outside for solving economic problems. At the present moment -- now I am coming from India -- in Bombay there is strike, railway strike. People are in so miserable condition to go to their work fifty miles, forty miles, hundred miles, for earning their bread. This kind of economic situation has increased the problems of life. Rather, if we accept this economic problem solution, then anywhere, any part of the world, you live. You don't require to go outside, hundred miles, two hundred miles, five hundred miles. No. You produce your food there, keep animals, then everything is solved. Actually, the problem is, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. One should take up these problems very seriously: birth, death, old age and disease. So... Actually, as spirit soul, we have no birth, no death. You will find in the Bhagavad, na jayate na mriyate va kadacit: "The living entity does not take birth." Na jayate na mriyate va: "Neither he dies." Na hanyate hanyamane sarire: [Bg. 2.20] "After the destruction of the body, the living entity does not annihilate. He..." Just like we have got already the example: my body, childhood body, is annihilated; still, I am existing. Similarly, I will exist. Now, the problem is how I shall exist? I shall exist eternally in full knowledge and in blissfulness. That is the idea. But so long we accept this material body, it is just the opposite. It is miserable, without any knowledge and without eternity. Philosophy should be to save our time from complicated economic problems. We should make our life simple and save time for spiritual cultivation so that we can be relieved from repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.

Guru-gauranga: (translating for president) Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srila Prabhupada Welcomed by Governor at Hotel De Ville -- Geneva, May 30, 1974