Hogs, Dogs, Camels and Asses

Hogs, Dogs, Camels and Asses

Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.18-19
Los Angeles, June 13, 1972

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Pradyumna:Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.:)

taravah kim na jivanti
bhastrah kim na svasanty uta
na khadanti na mehanti
kim grame pasavo 'pare
 [SB 2.3.18]

(When Lilavati chants, Srila Prabhupada says, "That's nice. Go on. Anyone else?")

(After word meanings, Srila Prabhupada says, "Not ‘beastly.' ‘Animals.' Pasavah means animal and beastly living being also. Then.")

Pradyumna: "Do the trees not live? Do the bellows of the blacksmith not breathe? All around us, do the beasts not eat and discharge semen? The materialistic man of the modern age will argue that life or part of it is never meant for discussion of theosophical or theological arguments. Life is meant for the maximum duration of existence for eating, drinking, sexual intercourse, making merry and enjoying life. The modern man wants to live forever by the advancement of material science, and there are many foolish theories for prolonging life to the maximum duration. But the Srimad-Bhagavatam affirms that life is not meant for so-called economic development or advancement of materialistic science for the hedonistic philosophy of eating, mating, drinking and merry-making. Life is solely meant for tapasya, for purifying existence, so that one may enter into eternal life just after the end of the human form of life. The materialists want to prolong life as much as possible because they have no information of the next life.

Therefore they want to get the maximum comforts of life only in this present life, thinking conclusively that there is no life after death. This ignorance about the eternity of the living being and the change of covering in the material world has played havoc in the structure of the modern human society. Consequently there are many problems multiplied by various plans of modernized man. The plans for solving the problems of society have only aggravated the troubles. Even if it is possible to prolong life more than 100 years, advancement of human civilization does not necessarily follow. The Bhagavatam says that certain trees live for hundreds and thousands of years. At Vrndavana there is a tamarind tree. The place is known as Imlitala, which is said to be existing since the time of Lord Krsna. In the Calcutta Botanical Garden there is a banyan tree said to be older than 50 years, and there are many such trees all over the world. Svami Sankaracarya lived only 32 years, and Lord Caitanya lived 48 years.

One may doubt that trees have life because they do not breathe, but modern scientists like Bose have already proved that there is life in plants, so breathing is no sign of actual life. The Bhagavatam says that the bellows of the blacksmith breathe very soundly, but that does not mean that the bellows has life. The materialist will argue that life in the tree and life in the man cannot be compared because the tree cannot enjoy life by eating palatable dishes or by enjoying sexual intercourse. In reply to this, the Bhagavatam asks whether other animals like the dogs and hogs living in the same village with human beings do not eat and enjoy sexual life. The specific utterance of Srimad-Bhagavatam in this connection regarding other animals means that persons who are simply engaged in the matter of planning a better type of animal life consisting of eating, breathing, and mating are also animals in the shape of human beings. A society of such polished animals cannot benefit suffering humanity, for an animal can easily harm another animal but rarely do good."

Prabhupada: So this is the situation. We have discussed in the previous verse that we are decreasing the span of life. The scientists will say, "No, we are making arrangement so that by science we shall make man immortal." Vikatate(?). When a man becomes mad, he speaks so many nonsense. Like a child. A child also speaks so many nonsense things, and the parents enjoy it. Similarly, the so-called scientist, when he says that "By scientific method, we shall stop death," so there is no evidence in the history of the human society that a man has not died. That cannot be. Hiranyakasipu, he was also atheist and materialistic. He also tried to become immortal. And he made a plan, negative plan, to cheat Lord Brahma that "I shall not die in this way, in this way, in that way, in this way, in that way." But still he was killed. Mrtyuh sarva-haras caham. Krsna says that "I am death, and at the time of death I take away everything." Sarva-haras ca. So we cannot cheat God or His law.

That is not possible. We may be very intelligent to cheat here the police or the government or the laws, but it is not possible to cheat the supreme laws. That is not possible. Therefore, in order to avoid the superintendence of the Supreme Lord ... because there is superintendence ... as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, you have read, mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10]. "Under My superintendence the law of nature is working." So we are under the laws of nature. The nature is very vigilant, strong agent of Krsna. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. So we cannot avoid. Even if we deny, "There is no God, there is no systematic government or stringent laws," just to avoid our responsibility, but that will not save us. Now, the argument is in the previous verse. It is said that we are decreasing our duration of life. The scientists will say, "No, we shall stop it." Taking this argument, Bhagavata says, "Suppose you stop death ..." It cannot be.

Suppose you increase the duration span of life to a very extensive way. In reply to that, it is said that "What is the use of living for so many years?" If the life is not properly utilized ... Now, the living for many, many years, so the trees are also living, standing in one place, living for many years. In San Francisco we saw. They say that one tree, red tree, very tall, very stout and strong, and they said that this tree is standing there for seven hundreds of years. So what is the benefit? So we can argue that "You cannot compare with tree and us. Because we have got so many facilities." What facilities? That facility ... The tree's life ... That is life, admitting, but it cannot breathe. So immediately the answer is bhastrah kim na svasanty uta. Bhastrah, bellow ... You have seen big, big bellows in blacksmith shop. That is also made of skin. Just like our body is made of skin, that bellow is also made of skin, and it has got a big nose and breathing is coming, "bas, ghans, ghans, bas."

So these are the tangible examples. So if you want to increase your life there are many living entities, they are living many, many years more than you. So what excel, what is excellence in your part? And if you say that "I am breathing. The tree cannot breathe." Oh, there is the bhastrah, the bellows. It can breathe better than you. Then he says, "No, they have no enjoyment of eating and mating." Then the Bhagavata replies, kim na khadanti na mehanti kim grame pasavo 'pare. Wherever we live, there are many other lower animals, just like dogs, cats, hogs, asses, animals, camels. Of course, in city we do not find these, but in villages these are domestic animals. Dogs, asses, hogs, camel, monkey, and so many others. Therefore he says, grame, "In your vicinity, in your neighborhood, there are many animals. They have got the facility of eating and sexual intercourse." So how do we excel them? The modern civilization is such a foolish civilization that they think they are advanced.

In which way you are advanced? The animals, the trees, they are far advanced than you in this matter. So far bodily necessities are concerned, you cannot compete with them. You are flying. So we can fly by airplane. Oh, the vulture can fly more than you. It is a vulture, and it flies many miles above, and it has got very sharp eyesight. The vulture is so up. The business is where there is a dead body. That's all. He is trying to find out, "Where is a dead body?" You see? It goes high, but the business is to find out a dead body. That's all. Similarly, our, this advancement of science, increasing the duration of life, increasing the sex power especially in these days ... As soon as there is lack of sex power, there is divorce suit. Yes. But you have seen the dogs and cats. How much sex power they have got! So begetting children, the hog can beget children, at least three dozen a year. What we can do? In three years it is hardly we can produce one child. And the hog will produce in three years at least thirty-six children.

So you cannot compete. Simply by competing with these things, animal life, that is not excellence of your life. Real excellence is that these animals, they cannot become Krsna conscious. That is the difference only. You can excel with all these lower animals, trees, birds, beasts and others, so many, only by awakening your Krsna consciousness. That is the only business. And if you lack in that matter Krsna consciousness, then the other animals, lower animals, they are far, far advanced. They are far, far advanced. So as human being, we should consider all these points. The Bhagavata is pointing out each and every step of our life and helping us how to become Krsna conscious. When Narada Muni advised Vyasadeva that "You have written so many books, but actually they are not very much beneficial to the human society. You write such a book that they will come to Krsna consciousness." So this Srimad-Bhagavatam is especially written to bring these rascals and animals to come to Krsna consciousness.

The so-called advanced civilization going to hell, they do not know. Adanta-gobhir visatam tamisram punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. Chewing the chewed. So many advertisement, only for drinking and sex. We go, when we go to the beach, two sides, the advertisement full of drinking and sex. That's all. So animal civilization. Don't be proud of this rascal civilization. There is no meaning of this civilization. And big professor, he says, "Swamiji, there is no life after death." Just see. And he is a professor. He's teacher. This is the position. Fools, rascals, they are leaders, professors, and scientists and philosophers, and pushing us towards hell. That's all. Because they do not know what is the value of life. They do not know that there is life after death. Otherwise, why there are so many varieties of life? They concoct their own conclusion. They do not refer to the authorities, what is the actual position. They make, they manufacture their own way of life.

It is very dangerous civilization. Because ... Dangerous in this sense, that this life, human form of life, is especially meant for God realization, but in that subject matter they are blind. There is no educational system, there is no university, nothing of the sort. Simply animalistic way of life, "How we can increase our eating capacity, our sexual capacity," and this ... This is going on. So Bhagavata is pointing out, "My dear sir, by these things you cannot be very much proud." Then? One more verse, yes.
Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.:)

sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih
samstutah purusah pasuh
na yat-karna-pathopeto
jatu nama gadagrajah

Prabhupada: That's all. So sva. Sva means dog, and vid, vid-varaha. There are two kinds of hogs. One is that we see generally in towns and villages. That is varaha. Varaha means hogs. And they eat stool, vid-varaha. Another, jungle varaha. They have got a big, what is called?

Devotees: Tusk.

Prabhupada: Tusk, yes. That is more dangerous. They live in the jungle. And vid-varaha means they live in the forest, finding out "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" Sva-vid-varaha ustra. Ustra means camel, and khara means ass. So here it is a very terse remark, that "Anyone who has never heard the glories of Gadagraja, the Supreme Personality of Godhead -- in other words, one who is not Krsna conscious, does not know anything about Krsna, or God -- they are no better than these animals, especially: dog, hog, ass, camel." Why these four kinds of animals have been selected to compare? That is explained. Sva means dog. A dog, however powerful it may be, very strong, stout, but it, unless it has got a master, its life is very precarious. Dog. Just see our education at the present moment. Very advanced education. Many Indian students come here also to take advanced education. But actually, we consider this education creating dogs. Why? Now, because however technologist you may be, if you don't get a suitable service, all your education is finished.

Therefore, after education you'll have to write application, "My dear sir, I am such and such qualified dog. (laughter) If you'll kindly give me some service." And the tail is like this. (laughter) You see? Just imagine. If by education he becomes independent ... Just like Vedic culture. The brahmanas, the ksatriya, the vaisyas, they are independent. The sudras are compared with the dogs because they cannot live without a master. Brahmana, he will not accept anyone's service. That is real brahmana. A ksatriya will never accept anyone's service. Why the battle of Kuruksetra was there? The Kurus, they took away the whole kingdom of the Pandavas. But they were ksatriyas. How they will live? Therefore the fight was necessity. The ksatriyas must be, must have some land to collect taxes. That is the ksatriya's source of income. The brahmana's source of income, pathana pathana yajana yajana ... They must be learned scholar, they must teach others, they must be devotee and teach others how to become devotee.

They must take contribution and must spend for Krsna. This is brahmana. No service. Formerly, no brahmana ... Sanatana Gosvami, Rupa Gosvami, they were born in high-class brahmana family, Sarasvata brahmana, but because they accepted the service of Nawab Hussein Shah, immediately they were rejected from brahmana society. It is by the grace of Caitanya Mahaprabhu that they again became gosvami. Otherwise, they were rejected. No brahmana could take service and especially service of a low-class man. That is ... In Bhagavata you will see especially that if a brahmana is in difficulty, he may accept the profession of a ksatriya or utmost of a vaisya, but never take the profession of a sudra. What is the profession of sudra? Sudra ... Paricaryatmakam karyam sudra-karma svabhava-jam. One who is hankering after service, he is sudra. He has no capacity to live independently. The brahmana, real brahmana, he will starve, he will die out of starvation.

He will never accept anyone's service. That is brahmana. Uncha-vrtti. If he has no income, he will go on the field ... And when the grains are taken away, some grains fall down. They will pick up all those grains and live on that. Still, they will not go to anyone that "I am hungry. Give me something." No. Uncha-vrtti. So our education ... And why we were so independent? Because the education was very high, Vedic education. Satisfied with Brahman realization. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. Not very long ago, say about 300 years ago, there was a brahmana, a very rigid brahmana, in Krsna-nagara, near our Mayapura. And brahmana's business, he was teaching. So the king of that place, means a big zamindar, Raja Krsna-candra ... By his name, that place is Krsna-nagara. So he heard about the brahmana, very learned brahmana, but very poor. So he one day came to him and asked him, "Brahmana, can I help you any way?" So he said, "No, I don't require any help from you."

"No, I see you are so poverty-stricken. You have no sufficient means." "No, I am not poverty-stricken. My students, they get some alms of rice. So my wife boils the rice, and here is a tamarind tree. So I take some leaves and boil it, and that's sufficient. Why I am poverty-stricken?" He's satisfied, whatever is coming automatically, that's all. He doesn't require any higher standard of life, any botheration. He is satisfied, little rice and tamarind juice. That's all. So in each and every home, formerly, this independence was very much valued. So at the modern education this independence is being killed. People are becoming unemployed, machine. Machine ... High technologist means he must find out a job where technological machines are there. Otherwise he will starve, and he will have to go round, factory to factory: "Will you give me some service?" "No vacancy." Yes. So we shall discuss further next, tomorrow. (end)

 

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Hear chant and be fearless

Hear chant and be fearless

Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.1.5
Paris, June 13, 1974

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Nitai: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "O descendant of Bharata, one who desires to be free from all desires must hear, glorify and also remember the Personality of Godhead, who is the Supersoul, the controller and the savior from all miseries."

Prabhupada:

tasmad bharata sarvatma
bhagavan isvaro harih
srotavyah kirtitavyas ca
smartavyas cecchatabhayam
 [SB 2.1.5]

So who does not want abhayam? Abhayam means fearlessness. Everyone wants. Because by material nature, we have got four positions. One position is always fearful, "What will happen next?" Even the big man, President Nixon, he is also fearful, "What will happen next?" Because so many charges are being brought against him, although he is on the very exalted position, President of USA, but he has, he is also always fearful. This is the nature, material nature. Can anyone say that he is not fearful? Is it possible? Then what to speak of us. As we require to eat something... This is material existence, eating. Then after eating, rest, sleeping. Then after rest, sex indulgence. Similarly, fearfulness.

So here it is recommended, icchatam akuto 'bhayam: "One who desires to this fearfulness and they do not make any arrangement how to get out of this fearfulness, they are not human beings." Human being is always takes precaution how to save oneself. Although it is natural, everyone is fearful, but at the same time, it is the effort of the human being to see that he may be saved from the cause of fearfulness. Therefore it is said, icchata abhayam. Abhayam means no fear. If anyone wants no more to be fearful, then for him the prescribed duty is here that tasmat, "Therefore," bharata, "O descendant of Maharaja Bharata..." Pariksit Maharaja belonged to the dynasty of King Bharata. King Bharata, from whose name the Bharatavarsa, the word Bharatavarsa has come. This planet is called Bharatavarsa. This planet, earthly planet, is called Bharatavarsa because it was ruled over by the King Bharata. Gradually, the original Vedic culture lost, Aryan, Aryan family... You French people, you are also Aryan family, but the culture is lost now. So this Krsna consciousness movement is actually reviving the original Aryan culture. Bharata. We are all inhabitants of Bharatavarsa, but as we lost our culture, it became divided. Now it is divided into so many countries: "This is India," "This is France," "This is Germany," "This is this," "This is this." But formerly, the whole planet was known as Bharatavarsa. One culture, Vedic culture, one flag. Now they have increased hundreds and thousands of flags. So actually, if you want United Nations, unity, then you must take this culture, Krsna consciousness, again to become Bharata. That will save the situation.

This one culture means politically, one flag; religiously, one God, Krsna; and to understand Krsna, one scripture, Bhagavad-gita; and one work, one work: simply to satisfy Krsna. So this is oneness. And if you want at least to become free from all fearful condition, then you should always memorize or remember: Whom? Sarvatma. Sarvatma means one who is the living force of everyone. He is called sarvatma. There is living force. I have got living force, you have got living force, everyone. But wherefrom the living force is coming? From Krsna. Bijo 'ham sarva-bhutanam [Bg 7.10]. Sarvatma. Krsna is the origin of the living force. He is the supreme living force. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. This is all stated in the Bhagavad-gita: "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel." Just like a man having many sons, he can claim that "They are all my sons," similarly, Krsna can claim that "All living entities, they are My sons." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita:

sarva-yonisu kaunteya
murtayah sambhavanti yah
tasam brahma mahad yonir
aham bija-pradah pita
 [Bg. 14.4]

Aham, Krsna says, that "I am the seed-giving father of all living entities." "Of all" means sarva-yonisu, in different forms, in different species of life.
This outward dress is different. Somebody has become ant and somebody has become elephant or bigger than that, whole fish. Another fish there is timingila. That perhaps we have not seen. Whale fish, some of them have seen. It is just like as big as a big house. And still, whale fish, just like you swallow up some small nut, they are called timingila. So there are so many varieties of life. We do not know. But we know from the sastras. In the sastra we can know. Therefore we should consult Vedic literature to have full knowledge. Jalaja nava-laksani: "In the water there are 900,000 species of life." Now, who can deny it? If you deny, then I shall tell you that "Go and count." (laughs) But we can get the full knowledge from the sastra. This is called Vedic knowledge. Everything is complete.

tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet
samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham
 [MU 1.2.12]

So you learn from the Vedic literature. Every information is there. And all the Vedic literature is summarized in this Srimad-Bhagavatam. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitam phalam idam [SB 1.1.3]. Nigama. Nigama, the Vedic literature... Vedic literature, it is compared with desire tree. Every word used in the Vedic literature is peculiar to the ordinary man. But desire tree, they have no experience. But there is a tree which is called desire tree, kalpa-taru. What is the business of the desire tree? Now, desire tree means whatever you desire, you get from that tree. There is tree. That desire tree is there in Krsna's loka. Cintamani-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vrksa [Bs. 5.29]. There is also, in the spiritual world, there are trees, but each tree is a desire tree. And we have no experience what is desire tree. You can get anything from that tree. That is called desire. So these Vedas is considered as the desire tree, means any kind of knowledge you want, it is complete there perfectly, any kind, either spiritual or material, any department of knowledge. And that is called desire tree. All kinds of knowledge, you can achieve from the Vedic language. There is Dhanur-veda, Ayur-veda, Jyotir-veda and all kinds. Veda means knowledge. So for military art, if you want to consult Vedic literature, you will get complete information, perfect. Similarly, Jyotir-veda. Jyoti means the luminaries in the sky, the stars. You can get. We are trying to go to the moon planet and wasting our time and energy, but if you consult Vedas, you get full information of the moon planet, sun planet or any other planet. There are millions and millions of trillions of planets. You can get all, Brahmaloka, up to the topmost planet. Jyotir-veda. That is called Jyotir-veda. And the Dhanur-veda. Ayur-veda. Ayuh means duration of life. And nobody wants to be diseased. So that means medical science. That is also fully there.

So this is the prescription given by Srimad-Bhagavatam, "If you want to become without any fear..." Because the material life means we are all full of fearfulness. And therefore Krsna, the supreme father of everyone, of all living entities, in all forms, sarvatma, He says in the Bhagavad-gita that "I am the seed-giving father of all these living entities." Just like father impregnates the mother by giving the seed, similarly, this material world, material nature, is our... This body is also material. Similarly, this huge material cosmic manifestation is supposed to be the mother, and the father is God, or Krsna, who impregnates this seed of the living entities, and therefore, when there is creation, they come out as children of this material world. Just like a woman is pregnant and the child comes out, similarly, this material world is impregnated by the seed-giving father. So that is a different article from this matter. Otherwise, why a woman does not become pregnant automatically? Why? Can anyone answer? Why the seed-giving father is necessary? Let women produce children automatically. No, that is not possible. Therefore, for producing all these living entities in different forms of life, the seed-giving father is required, and that is God, Krsna. Is there any bad logic? There is confirmation in the sastra. Krsna says, aham bija-pradah pita: [Bg. 14.4] "I am the seed-giving father." And is it possible to produce life without the father? Is it possible? Then why these rascal scientists say that "Now we shall produce life"? How you can do it? It is not possible. This is rascaldom. Because we are living entities, therefore even in the Christian world the Supreme Lord God is accepted as the supreme father. "O father, give us our daily bread." It is very good, accepting the Supreme Lord, the supreme father. Everyone must accept. That is human life. That is human knowledge. That is common sense knowledge, that "If I am produced by my father, so, so many living entities, wherefrom they have come? They have come from the supreme father." Sarvatma. He is called sarvatma. Srotavyah kirtitavyas ca.

So if you want freedom from this fearfulness or this material existence... Material existence means struggle for existence. This is material. Everyone has struggle: "I want to stay. I want to..." In your country there has been so much fight, the French Revolution and so many fighting, fighting between the Protestant and the Catholic. And your Napoleon Bonaparte, he also fought. So fighting, this is called struggle for existence. Everyone wants to exist, and he has to fight. At least, we have to fight with the winter season. If there is no fighting, so at least there must be fighting with the winter season or summer season. Without fighting, you cannot stay. Without fighting, you cannot stay. That is called struggle for existence and survival of the fittest. You must be fit. This is called material world. And spiritual world means there is no fight; simply friendship, that's all. This is spiritual world. Vaikuntha. Vaikuntha. Kuntha means "anxiety," and vaikuntha means "without anxiety."

So we have been put into this place of anxiety on account of our rebellious condition against God. That is the cause of all material existence. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. We should know this, that "Why we are put into this condition of struggle for existence, always fearfulness anxiety? Why we are put into this condition? We don't want it." This is human life. When this inquiry will come to a human being, then he is human being. Why? So long this "Why?" question does not come, he is animal. The animal does not question that "Why I am put into the slaughterhouse? Why I have brought, I have been brought here to be slaughtered?" Animal. Similarly, if a human being does not understand that "I have been put into this material world for being slaughtered by the laws of material nature. Never mind I am Napoleon or an ordinary man, I will be slaughtered..." Therefore it is called martya-loka, "the universe of being slaughtered." Nobody wants. Just like the animal does not want to be slaughtered, but he is, by force, it is slaughtered. Similarly, nobody wants death, but we are forced. Even such a big man like Napoleon, he wanted to complete that arch, but he was slaughtered before his desire was fulfilled. This is material nature. You must be slaughtered before his desire was fulfilled. This is material nature. You must be slaughtered as soon as required.

Therefore it is said here that icchata abhayam: "Anyone, if he wants fearlessness, saved from being slaughtered, then he must do this." What is that? Sarvatma bhagavan isvarah: "The Supreme Lord who is the origin of all living entities, sarvatma, and He is Bhagavan." Bhagavan means all-powerful, all-opulences. He can do anything and everything. That is Bhagavan. Not that imitation rascals who claim that "I am God," but he cannot do anything -- not that kind of Bhagavan. Bhagavan means all-powerful. Whatever He likes, He can do. Sad-aisvarya-purna, full of six opulences. That is called Bhagavan.

aisvaryasya samagrasya
viryasya yasasah sriyah
jnana-vairagyayos caiva
sannam bhaga itingana
 (Visnu Purana 6.5.47)

Bhagavan definition. Everything has definition. Nothing to be accepted blindly. Aisvaryasya, richness. So Bhagavan means who has got the complete riches. He is called Bhagavan. Now, I have got some money, you have got some money, he has got some money, but nobody can claim that "I have got all the money." No, that is not possible. So one who possesses all the money, that is Bhagavan. Similarly, money, strength, beauty, intelligence, knowledge and vairagya, when you find out such a person... You can find out some very big rich man in this material world, but you cannot say that he is the supreme richest man. That is not possible. You will find another man richer than him. You will find another rich. In this way, if you are very scholar, researching, you research. When you come to a person where you see that nobody is richer than him, that is Bhagavan. That is God. That is God.

So if you have got the energy to search out such person, that is Bhagavan. It is not difficult. The definition is there. Here there is competition. Not only Bhagavan, but isvara. Isvara means controller. Everyone is isvara. I also am controlling this institution. Or somebody is controlling his office, his factory, his kingdom. Just like President Nixon, he is controlling the United States. So all of us, more or less, we are isvara, controller. Everyone. Just like this mother, she is controlling the small child. So she is also isvara, means she is controlling. So anyone who has controlling power... So God has given everyone a little controlling power. In that sense every one of us, isvara. But here it is said, bhagavan isvarah: "the supreme controller." Supreme controller means we are controllers, but we are controlled by somebody else. But the Bhagavan Isvara means He is no more controlled by anyone. That is Krsna. That is described. Isvarah paramah krsnah: "The supreme controller is Krsna." Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1].

So isvara and hari. Hari means if you surrender to such isvara... You are being controlled. Foolishly, we are thinking, "I am free." How you can be free? The biggest personality in this country, Napoleon Bonaparte, he was not free. And how you can be free? This is misconception. Nobody can be free. Everyone is controlled. But we are rebelled, "No, I don't want to. I don't want to be controlled." But you will be controlled. Just like in a state, if you don't want to be controlled by the state laws, the state will force you into the prison house to be controlled. This is our position. You cannot be free. Therefore freedom is not good for us. Just like the small child. If the child is given freedom, he will simply create havoc. So it is not to be given freedom, must be controlled. Similarly, all living entities, being child of God, we must voluntarily put ourself to be controlled by God. That is perfection of life. Don't try to be falsely free. That is not possible. Just like the mother. She will never give freedom to the child, because that is not good for him. It should not be. Anyone who is weak, he must not be given freedom. That is good for him. Similarly, we are weak. God is great. God is all-powerful. We are very teeny. We have no power. Therefore our normal life is voluntarily accept the controlling power of God. That is human life. And God comes and He pleads, He requests that "My dear boy, why you are struggling here? You will never be happy." Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You have manufactured so many plans to be happy, but you will never be happy. Therefore your only business is that you come under My control and you will be happy." Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah: "I will give you all happiness." This is the sum and substance of Bhagavad-gita. And anyone who agrees to be controlled, then success of life begins from that point, when he agrees. Unfortunately, at the present moment the whole world population has been taught in such a way that they do not want to be controlled. Therefore there is always chaotic condition.

So here is the solution, that if you want to be saved from this chaotic condition of life, if you want to be free from all anxieties, then your business is srotavyah: "You hear about the supreme controller, Krsna." And for hearing about the supreme controller we have got eighty books like that. Not one, two, three, four-eighty books. So if you are actual intelligent, if you are actually scientist, if you are actually philosopher, read these books. That is called srotavyah. Hear about the supreme controller. Not that simply God is there. Just try to understand how God is there. That you will find in this literature. There is no other literature throughout the whole world. You will find here. Srotavyah kirtitavyas ca. Not only hearing like dull. As soon as hear, if you are... Then you spread this knowledge. Kirtitavyah: "My dear sir, there is God. God is like this. I have heard from the authority." That is called kirtitavyas ca, preaching. First of all hearing. Without hearing, how you will preach? So this is called sravanam kirtanam [SB 7.5.23], another name. Srotavyah kirtitavyas ca. And smartavyah. As soon as you become expert hearer and expert, I mean, chanter, then you will remember always, smartavyah, as is here. And as soon as you will always remember Krsna, then there is no more fear, finished. That is life.
Thank you very much. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.1.5 -- Paris, June 13, 1974

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

"Serious Ones Will Come To Krsna Consciousness"

74/06/13 Paris, Bhagavad-gita 7.1-3



Devotee: (leads chanting, etc.) "Now hear, O son of Prtha, Arjuna, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from doubt."

Prabhupada: (translated throughout)

sri-bhagavan uvaca
mayy asakta-manah partha
yogam yunjan mad-asrayah
asamsayam samagram mam
yatha jnasyasi tac chrnu
[Bg. 7.1]

We are speaking from Bhagavad-gita. I think most of you know this book, Bhagavad-gita. The Bhagavad-gita is sometimes translated in foreign languages: "The Song of God." In other words, God Himself speaking. So far we are concerned, we cannot understand God by mental speculation. Even in this material world, we cannot understand what is there in the planetary systems. So our knowledge is very, very limited. Besides that, we have got four deficiencies.

The one deficiency is that we commit mistake. Anyone, any big man of this material world, he commits mistake. Besides that, he is illusioned. Illusioned means to accept something what is not fact. Just like... (coughs) (aside:) Water. We accept this body as self. This is called illusion. According to Vedic understanding, anyone who thinks of this body as the self, he's animal. Just like a dog, he thinks that he is the body, similarly, if a man thinks that he is this body, he is American or Indian or Frenchman or German or Hindu or Muslim, with this bodily concept of life, so, according to Vedic understanding, this conception is animal conception. So this is called illusion.

Then next item is cheating. Cheating means with imperfect knowledge one takes the place of a teacher. And the last deficiency is that our senses are imperfect. It is not independent. Still, we are very much proud of our senses. For example, atheist class of men, they say that "Can you show me God?" He does not think whether he has got any power to see. So far our eyes are concerned, we can see so long when the conditions are fulfilled. Just like we are speaking. As soon as the light will be off, we cannot see one another. So what is the value of these eyes? You simply see under certain conditions. You simply smell under certain conditions. You can hear under certain condition. So therefore your materialistic life is conditional life.

So with imperfect senses, we cannot understand what is God. The only sense is very, I mean to, usable, just is this ear. Just like man is sleeping, and some enemy has come to attack him or to kill him. So still he's nicely sleeping. But if some friend cries, "Mr. such and such, wake up, wake up! Here is enemy. He'll kill you, kill you!" He can rise up. So when all other senses are useless, the ear can work. Therefore, to understand God, we have to use this ear. And we have to receive the sound vibration and it will act.

So as you are all ladies and gentleman interested in the yoga system, so the first-class yoga system is bhakti-yoga. In this Bhagavad-gita, just now I am trying to explain the first verse of the Seventh Chapter. The Seventh Chapter begins after concluding the Sixth Chapter. In the Sixth Chapter, the yoga system has been explained. It is said that one has to select a very sacred, secluded place. He has to sit down there in a posture just like a perpendicular, a straight line, the neck and the body. And then he has to think of Krsna or Visnu. The thinking should be so careful that one cannot divert his attention to any other subject matter. In the Patanjala yoga system, it is said yoga indriya-samyama: yoga means to control all the senses. Because unless the senses are controlled, the mind will be flickering, go this way, that way, that way. So mind is the leader of all other senses. If you control the mind, concentrate on the feature of the Supreme Lord, that is the yoga system. The, in the... Therefore, describing the yoga system, Krsna prescribes so many methods, but after hearing the system of practicing yoga, Arjuna replied that "Krsna, this system is so difficult I cannot practice it."

So point is that Arjuna was not ordinary person. He was specifically friend of Krsna. So he said that "This practice of yoga, hatha-yoga, is not possible by me." So Krsna therefore concluded the yoga system that "Don't be discertain. There is another yoga system, bhakti-yoga system. You can adopt it." The bhakti-yoga is summarized in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita:

yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gatenantar-atmana
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah
[Bg. 6.47]

You find out this last verse of the Sixth Chapter. So this is the topmost system of yoga, bhakti-yoga, always thinking of Krsna. So that system, bhakti-yoga system, is being described in the Seventh Chapter as

sri-bhagavan uvaca
mayy asakta-manah partha
yogam yunjan mad-asrayah
asamsayam samagram mam
yatha jnasyasi tac chrnu
[Bg. 7.1]

"My dear Arjuna, the..." Mayy asakta-manah. "Just try to divert your attachment to Me." Attachment, we have got attachment. Everyone has got attachment to something. So this yoga system, bhakti-yoga system, means simply divert the attachment to Krsna. That's all. When the mind is fully diverted for increasing attachment of Krsna, that is called bhakti-yoga.

So yogam yunjan mad-asrayah. This yoga system should be practiced, the mad-asraya... Mad-asraya means "under My direct supervision." This yoga system means it is not impersonal -- personal. And therefore the word is used, bhagavan uvaca: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead said." Bhagavan, the Absolute Truth, He's a person. Sometimes we think... There are many, they think the Absolute Truth is impersonal. But the Absolute Truth is person. Impersonal realization of the Absolute Truth is partial. It is not complete realization. Therefore it is mentioned here, asamsayam, "without any doubt" and samagram, "in full." After all, yoga system means an endeavor to understand the Absolute Truth. Yoga means linking, connecting.

So when you connect with the Absolute Truth, that is called yoga. Yoga... Another meaning is plus, adding something else. Just like two plus two. This is also called yoga. Similarly, God is one; I am also one. When we join together, that is called yoga. There are many methods of yoga practice, but the direct method is bhakti-yoga. I am a person, and God is also a person. When we intermingle together, or we join together, that is called bhakti-yoga. Bhakti means the process of connecting with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As soon as we use the word bhakti, means the process of devotion, there must be bhakta and Bhagavan. The Bhagavan is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and bhakta is Arjuna. So Bhagavan is personally teaching Arjuna the process how he can understand Him fully and without any doubt. Therefore it is mentioned here, bhagavan uvaca. Bhagavan uvaca means "the Supreme Personality of Godhead said."

So the Absolute Truth is realized in three angle of vision. It is said in the Vedic literature,

vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvam yaj jnanam advayam
brahmeti paramatmeti
bhagavan iti sabdyate
[SB 1.2.11]

The Absolute Truth is the ultimate truth, tattva. Tattva means Absolute Truth. So those who are aware of the Absolute Truth, they say that Absolute Truth is one, but He's realized in three angle of vision, namely, Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan. Those who are trying to speculate and understand the Absolute Truth, they can realize up to impersonal Brahman. So generally, speculators means big, big philosophers. They can understand that impersonal Brahman. These impersonalists are generally known as jnanis. Jnanis means the wise men or persons who are very much aware of everything. So they can understand the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth. But there are other class who are called yogis. The yogis can understand the Paramatma feature of the Absolute Truth. Paramatma means the Supersoul who is situated within everyone's heart. And the personal feature of the Lord is realized by the bhaktas, or the devotees.

So the jnanis and the yogis, they cannot understand perfectly what is God. God is transcendental, sat-cit-ananda, combination of eternity, knowledge and blissfulness. So if we realize the Absolute Truth partially, simply the eternity knowledge, that is called brahma-jnana. And when one is further advanced and he realizes the Absolute Truth as the localized aspect, Paramatma, or Lord Visnu within anyone's heart, by the yogic practice, that is called paramatma-jnana, or knowledge of the Absolute Truth. Actually, the objective is one, but different degrees of understanding. One example can be given in this connection. Just like the sun globe and the sun-god and the sunshine. The sunshine is also light, and there is temperature, and the sun globe is also light, and there is temperature, and within the sun globe, there is the personality known as sun-god, that is also light and temperature. But all this light and temperature, there are degrees. The sunshine degree of temperature and light is less than the sun globe, and the sun globe temperature and light is less than the sun-god. So when you reach the sun-god, then you understand the complete temperature and light. That completeness is realized by this word, bhagavan. Therefore the words are used here, asamsayam samagram: "You can understand Me in full, asamsayam, and without any doubt." So if you are interested to understand the Absolute Truth, God, then you must take to bhakti-yoga. And if we want to understand the Absolute Truth with some doubt, and not in complete, then we may take jnana-yoga, dhyana-yoga.

So our, this Krsna consciousness movement is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth in complete, without any doubt, and without any incompleteness. This is also confirmed in the Eighteenth Chapter, that if you want to know God in completeness and without any doubt, then you have to take to bhakti-yoga process. It is said,

bhaktya mam abhijanati
yavan yas casmi tattvatah
tato mam tattvato jnatva
visate tad-anantaram
[Bg. 18.55]

The meaning is that "One can understand Me only by this bhakti-yoga process. And when one is fully aware of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he becomes fit to enter into the Kingdom of God." So the purpose of yoga practice is to promote or to leave this material atmosphere and enter into the spiritual atmosphere. All the yogis, the jnana-yogi, they remain in the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth. The dhyana-yogi is practicing the localized aspect, but the bhakti-yogi, he is promoted directly in the planet which is called Goloka Vrndavana, and there he associates with the Supreme Personality of Godhead and enjoys life blissfully, eternally.

So there are different planetary systems within this material world. Just like we are situated, it is called Bhurloka. Above this, there is Bhuvarloka. Above that, there is Svarloka, there is Janaloka, there is Maharloka, Satyaloka. In this way, there are seven steps of planetary systems up, and similarly, seven planetary systems down. So by jnana-yoga, by bhakti-yoga, dhyana-yoga, means mystic yoga system, we can be promoted to the higher system, but if you practice the bhakti-yoga, then you go to the transcendental world directly and associate with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The dhyana-yogi and jnana-yogi can also go to the Brahmaloka or brahmajyoti, but there is chance of falling down again to this material world. But generally, jnana-yogi remains a speculator within this material world, and dhyana-yogi, they, as soon as they get some material miracle power, they become implicated with this power, no more going to the spiritual world. But bhakti-yogi, being perfectly the yogi, the topmost yogi, he can enter the kingdom of God, or the planet where God is there. God is everywhere, but He has got a special planet, which is called Goloka Vrndavana. You can enter there and mix with the Supreme Lord just like we are here, mixing one another. I can see you, you can see me, similarly, you can go directly, see God and live with Him, dance with Him, play with Him, eat with Him. That is the perfection of life.

This perfection of yoga can be achieved by practicing bhakti-yoga as it is recommended here: mayy asakta-manah partha yogam yunjan mad-asrayah, under the guidance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or His representative, bona fide. If you practice this yoga, then you can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead in complete, without any doubt. And if you practice this yoga in this life, and try to understand Krsna, what He is, then, after giving up this body -- you have to give up this body, today or tomorrow -- then you go directly to Krsna. It is therefore explained in the Fourth Chapter, janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya. "My dear Arjuna, anyone, if he simply tries to understand why I come in this material world, what is My mission, what do I do, if he simply one understands, then he immediately becomes fit for being transferred to the spiritual world." So our Krsna consciousness movement is to educate people how to understand Krsna, and then make his life perfect.

Thank you very much. Any question?

Translator: (translating questions from guests) So he's saying that many people are wondering why we are making so much propaganda for our Krsna consciousness movement. Because usually India doesn't make propaganda for philosophy.

Prabhupada: He does not know what is India. In India, he'll see, village to village, they're chanting Hare Krsna. In every village, in every town, there is a place which is called hari-sabha. Or every neighborhood, there is... Now, after the British rule, they have forgotten this culture, but they, originally, every village, every town, there is a club or society where this Hare Krsna chanting is going on. And, besides that, five hundred years ago, when Caitanya Mahaprabhu was there, He, all over India He traveled and preached this sankirtana movement. Not only that, He has ordered to His followers, to His devotees... Not only devotees, He has ordered to every Indian to preach the sankirtana movement all over the world. So He has said in these words, that

bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara
janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara
[Cc. Adi 9.41]

Means "Anyone who has taken birth in India as human being, he must make his life perfect and preach this cult all over the world." And He has also said,

prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama
sarvatra pracara haibe mora nama

Means that "As many villages and towns are there on the surface of the globe, everywhere this Hare Krsna mantra will be preached." So this Hare Krsna movement, or Krsna consciousness, has just begun. You will see in future, in every village, every town, they'll chant and dance. So it is the Caitanya Mahaprabhu's prediction that is being fulfilled. Nobody can check it. Already we have got about hundred branches all over the world, and all kinds of people taking part to this movement. [break]

Translator: So his question is that how can Catholic people, without rejecting their own religion, take to Krsna consciousness?

Prabhupada: Well, it is not rejecting; it is reforming. The Catholic religion also teaches love of God, or love of Christ. So if I say the truth, it will not be very palatable, but this movement is reformation. But another thing is Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, or whatever you may be, everyone accepts there is God. So we are teaching not to formally accept there is God, but know what is God and love Him. So those who are interested for higher knowledge of God, they'll take it. The point is simply officially to accept God, There is God, know. You know what is God, what is His..., what He is doing, what He is acting, what is His name, what is His address. Everything you know and try to love Him. That we are teaching. So those who are actually serious to know about God, they'll come to this movement. And those who simply know God officially: "There is God. That's all," that is different thing. That is also good. But if you want to know more, then you have to take this Krsna consciousness. We are therefore presenting these books, eighty books, four hundred pages each, and just to explain what is God. So it is a great science. Any intelligent man will appreciate. And we are getting good response. Especially in America, big, big university, college, professors, they are now purchasing. We have proposed to publish Srimad-Bhagavatam in sixty volumes, but we have published only fourteen. But still, the big, big professors, they are giving us order, forward order, for all the sixty volumes. As soon as scholarly people, they read these books, they'll welcome this movement all over the world. Is that all right, or any more? Any more questions?

Translator: She would like to know if our religion can bring something more than the other religions.

Prabhupada: There is one religion. One who knows God, he is religious. One who does not know God, that religion has no meaning. Religion means to understand the order of God. That is religion. But if you do not know what is God, and how you can hear His order? So religion without understanding God philosophically and logically is sentiment. And philosophy without understanding of God is mental speculation. So when philosophy and religious sentiments combine, that is called religion. Otherwise, it is not religion.

Bhagavan: Have kirtana?

Prabhupada: Yes. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 7.1-3 -- Paris, June 13, 1974

"The Divine Descent Of Our Duty"

68/06/13 Montreal, Bhagavad-gita 4.7


(Kirtana followed by Prema-dhvani prayers)

Prabhupada:

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham
[Bg. 4.7]

In last night we have discussed that how the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He descends, what is the reason of His descending on this material platform. That we have partially discussed last night, that although He is the supreme authority of all energies, although He is unborn, although He is the Lord of all planets or all creation, material creation and spiritual creation, He comes.

ajo 'pi sann avyayatma
bhutanam isvaro 'pi san
prakrtim svam adhisthaya
sambhavamy atma-mayaya
[Bg. 4.6]

He comes not being forced by the laws of material nature, but He comes out of His own energy. This point we have discussed last night.

Now the next point is why does He come? That is explained in the next verse, that yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. As soon as there is discrepancy in the matter of discharging occupational duty. I purposely translate the word dharma as occupational duty. Everyone has got occupational duty. Srimad-Bhagavatam also confirms it, atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah, svanusthitasya dharmasya. The same word, dharma. Svanusthitasya, prescribed duty. Svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhih, the perfection. How you are perfected by discharging your occupational duty, how it is tested. That test is svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhih. Your occupational duty will be perfect when? Samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. When you satisfy the Supreme Lord by your occupational duties. That is dharma.

Now let us consider what is our occupational duty. I purposely do not translate this word dharma as religion. Religion is imperfect conception of the word dharma. In the dictionary we find religion means a particular type of faith. But dharma does not mean that. Dharma means natural occupation. That is called dharma. I have several times explained this word dharma in this class. Just like heat of the fire. Without heat, a fire has no meaning. Wherever there is fire, there is heat and light. Therefore heat and light is the dharma or religion of fire. That means fire cannot change its dharma. As this dharma, as we generally understand by the word faith, that we can change. Today I am Hindu. I can become tomorrow a Christian. You are Christian today. You can become, I mean to say, Hindu or Muslim tomorrow. So this faith can be changed, but this dharma, as I explain, that natural sequence, natural occupation or natural intimately connection...

Just like the fire, heat and light. This cannot be changed. Either the fire is in America or the fire is in India or a fire is in Russia, the heat and light is there. That is actually the dharma.

Now here Krsna says that yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg. 4.7]. As soon as there is discrepancy in the discharge of that natural, I mean to say, sequence of the living entity... Abhyutthanam adharmasya. Abhyutthanam means uprising of unnatural activities or unnatural occupation, which is not for him. Abhyutthanam adharmasya tada, at that time, atmanam, self, srjamy aham. Srjamy aham means "I descend or appear." Now, this sequence of dharma is explained in the last paragraph, I mean to say, not last, in the last chapter, sixty-seventh verse of the Eighteenth Chapter. The Lord says that sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. "You just give up all kinds of occupational duty or religiosity." We have created all kinds of religious formula. So Krsna says that "You give up all kinds of religious formula." But what is to be done? Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "You just surrender unto Me."

That means that surrendering unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the real religion of the living entity. Not that I like a particular type of faith, that is my religion. Religion means when one is trained how to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is called religion. And the Srimad-Bhagavatam also gives enunciation of the word dharma, that sa vai pumsam paro dharmah. That is the best system of religion, sa vai pumsam paro dharmah. Yato bhaktir adhoksaje. By which one is trained to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is best.

Now you can select your own religion. Either you be a Hindu or Muslim or Mohammedan or Buddhist, whatever you like, Srimad-Bhagavata does not stop you, but it gives you hint what is the purpose of religion. The purpose of religion is to develop your love of Godhead. That is real religion. So here Krsna says that yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. As soon as there is decadence of people's love of Godhead... That means when people become forgetful, almost forgetful. Because at least some people remember that there is God. But generally, in this age, they are forgetful. That is dharmasya glanih. And by forgetting God the people cannot be happy. That is also another cause. People are thinking that "God is dead. We have no obligation to God. There is no God." This sort of thinking will never make the people happy. And actually, it is happening. They have become atheistic. The modern civilization is Godless, but people are not happy. Therefore God or His representative comes when people forget his relationship with God.

So real religion is to understand what is our relationship with God. And then the relationship is, as it is found in the Bhagavad-gita and confirmed by great acaryas like Lord Caitanya.

Lord Caitanya immediately enunciates the constitutional position of the living entity. Sanatana Gosvami inquired from Him that, "Who am I? Why I am always in miserable condition, three kinds of miserable condition?" So in answer to this question, "Who am I?" or "Who are all these living entities?" Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu immediately answered that jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. The real identity of the living entity is that he is eternally servant of God. We should not understand this word servant in the meaning of materialistic servant. To become servant of God is a great position. That is not ordinary position. Just like people try to get some government servitorship. Government service. That is also servant, to become servant. Why? Or people try to get some service in some established firm, well-reputed business firm. Why? That service is comfortable, there is great profit in such kind of service. So if people are satisfied by getting a government service or service in some good establishment, then just think over if you become servant of God then what is your position? Because God is the government of all government. So to become servant of God... We are servant of God constitutionally. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109].

But at the present moment, I am thinking that I am master, I'm not servant. This is called maya. Actually I am servant, but I am thinking master. Everyone is trying to lord it over the material nature according to his capacity. Controller, master, he's trying to be, but actually his position is servant. So when he forgets his servitorship, that is called dharmasya glanir, discrepancy of his natural position. Dharmasya.

Now another point of dharma is, as Baladeva Vidyabhusana is describing here, is dharmasya vedoktasya glanir vinasa. Now this is ordinary sense of religion. Just like everyone has got some scripture. The Hindus, they have got Vedic scripture. The Muslims, they have got Koran. The Christians, they have got Bible, Old Testament, New Testament. Similarly, there are many other religious sects, they have got their own scripture. So Baladeva Vidyabhusana says that vedoktasya dharmasya. Dharma means the rules and regulations as they are prescribed in the scriptures.

Just like state laws. State laws, there are some rules and regulation in the lawbook, in the statute book of the particular state. Similarly, dharma, another meaning of dharma is, it is the law of God. Maybe differently described in different countries according to different climatic condition or situation. But in every religious scripture the obedience to God is instructed. That is a fact. No scripture says that there is no God and you are independent. Either it is Bible or Koran or Vedas or even Buddhist literature, Buddhist scripture.

Generally, according to Buddha philosophy, there is no soul, no God. But they have to obey Lord Buddha. So there is also God because Lord Buddha is accepted by the Vedic literature. Just in the Srimad-Bhagavatam there is a great list of incarnations, and Buddha, Lord Buddha, is accepted as one of the incarnations who would appear. It is in future tense. Kikatesu bhavisyati. Buddho namna anjana-sutah kikatesu bhavisyati. Now bhavisyati means "He will appear in future." Because Srimad-Bhagavatam was compiled by Vyasadeva five thousand years ago, and Lord Buddha appeared about two-thousand-six-hundred years ago. Therefore before the appearance of Lord Buddha the Srimad-Bhagavatam was written. This is called sastra. Because there is accurate date and accurate calculation. Everything is there. Buddho namna anjana-sutah kikatesu bhavisyati. The mother's name also given there, anjana-suta. And kikatesu means Gayapradesh. In India there is a province called Bihar. In that province there is a district Gaya. In that district Lord Buddha appeared. Lord appeared in Bihar province. He was ksatriya, He was Hindu, and He propagated this religion of nonviolence, Buddhism.

His specific propaganda was to stop animal killing. So animal killing is recommended in the Vedic literature. Therefore people wanted to give him Vedic evidences that "In the Vedic literature animal sacrifice is recommended under certain condition. So how do you preach? You are Hindu and you are followers of Vedas. Why you are preaching nonviolence?" Therefore he had to give up Hindu religion. He said that "I do not care for your Vedas. It is my propaganda to stop animal killing. So if you follow me, then you must stop animal killing." Ahimsa paramo dharmah. So later on, of course, Lord Buddha was patronized by a great emperor, Asoka, and therefore practically all Indian population turned to be Buddhist, with few exceptions.

Then Sankaracarya came and he preached this almost Buddhism. The Buddha, Lord Buddha preached that there is no God, there is no soul. This body is combination of matter and if we dissolve this material combination then there is no more perception of misery or happiness. That is nirvana. That is his philosophy. But later on, Lord, I mean to say, Acarya Sankara, he appeared and he preached that brahma satyam jagan mithya. This bodily combination is temporary, or mithya. He said flatly that it is false. False means... Of course, Vaisnava philosophy, they say temporary. Temporary or false you can take on the same category. But Sankaracarya said that brahma satyam. That spirit soul, Brahman, that is reality, and this external feature of the Brahman, or the body, that is false.

So anyway, here the point is that in any religion there is a conception of worshiping God or symbol of God. Even in Jain philosophy they also worship Mahavira. In Buddha philosophy they worship Lord Buddha. In India there is Jainism. That is almost like Buddhism. They have got also exactly the same process of worship. Temples they have got. Big, nice, costly temples they have got. And they come to see, visit the temple, offer their worshipful offerings, flowers, fruits, everything. Same thing.

Similarly, in the temple of Guru-dvaras, Sikhs... [break] ...like the Hindus. And they also offer flower, fruits, and sweetmeat, but they read their Granthasahib. As we are reading Bhagavad-gita they read Granthasahib enunciated by Guru Nanak. So this temple worship or accepting some authority, either you accept Krsna or you accept Lord Jesus Christ or jehovah or Lord Buddha or Guru Nanak, that is a different, I mean to say, kinds of faith, but this acceptance of authority is there in everywhere. Now who is the highest authority, that we have to see by understanding Vedic literature, by our arguments, by our sense, by our understanding. But this acceptance of authority is there.

So dharmasya glanih means when we defy authority. That is called discrepancy in the discharge of religiosity or occupational duty. Even in your office, even in the government, if you do not accept authority there is chaos, there is revolution. So this sort of mentality is very dangerous. When one does not accept any authority, that is his chaotic condition. So Lord Krsna says that dharmasya... yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg. 4.7].

So dharmasya glanir bhavati means one sense, that I have explained, occupational duty. Now we have got, our present position is in three status. What is that? In the gross status of our understanding, we take this gross body as my self. At that time my dharma or occupational duty is different. When I accept mind as myself, then my occupational duty becomes different. But when I understand that I am spirit soul, then my occupational duty is different.

Here Krsna, because He is Supreme Soul, Supreme Personality of Godhead, He means that dharma, or occupational duty on the spiritual platform. He does not mean dharma or occupational duty on the gross bodily platform or subtle mental platform. He means dharma, the occupational duty on the spiritual platform. And that is confirmed by Lord Caitanya. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That real constitutional position of the living entity, especially of the human being, is to accept servitorship of Krsna. So in other word, when there is discrepancy in the matter of Krsna consciousness, at that time Krsna comes. Krsna descends. Krsna descends.

Krsna descends means sometimes He personally descends, sometimes He descends by His incarnation, sometimes He descends as a sound vibration, sometimes He descends as devotee. There are many different categories of His descendance. And at the present moment this Krsna has descended in His holy name. You should understand that. Krsna kali-kale nama-rupe krsna-avatara. This is the statement of Lord Caitanya, that in this age of Kali, Krsna has descended in the sound vibration form. Sound is also one of the form. Just like omkara is the form of Krsna. Aksaranam omkaro 'smi. Similarly, Krsna, now, at the present moment, has descended in the form of His holy name. His name and He, there is no difference. So why? Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg. 4.7]. People are now forgetting his relationship with God. Now this incarnation of Krsna in the form of His holy name, this chanting of Krsna will deliver all people of the world from this forgetfulness.

This is contributed by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He says that kali-kale nama-rupe krsna-avatara, iha haite sarva-siddhi haibe tomara. If you chant or if you associate with the chanting of holy name of Krsna, then you will get the highest perfectional stage of life, and we should accept that Krsna has descended at the present moment in the form of His holy name. Thank you very much. Any question?

Janardana: (break?) ...like Satya-yuga for example. Was the chanting of the name of Krsna effective as it is in this age or is there another method prescribed as being more effective?

Prabhupada: According to Srimad-Bhagavatam there are different processes in different ages. But each process is as good as in any age. It is not that the chanting of Hare Krsna is in this age very effective and it was not effective in the Satya-yuga. It is not like that. The real process is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,

krte yad dhyayato visnum
tretayam yajato makhaih
dvapare paricaryayam
kalau tad dhari-kirtanat

Kalau tad dhari-kirtanat. It is not that people were not chanting in the Satya-yuga, in Satya-yuga this holy name of Krsna. It is not that. But in this age the process adopted in the Satya-yuga, dhyayatah, meditation, that is not possible. In the Satya-yuga, krte yad... Because people were living at that time one-hundred-thousands of years. And it is said that Mahamuni Valmiki, he meditated for sixty-thousands of years.

So unless you have got sufficient life, the meaning is that meditation process is difficult and you must have sufficient time to practice it and then come to the standard point of meditation. But in this age such kind of perfection in meditation is not possible. Therefore in this age especially recommended that you sit down together and chant Hare Krsna. It is very easy. Anyone and everyone can take part in it. There is no necessity of education, of pre-qualification. And because in this age people are very slow, very unfortunate, badly associated, so many [dis]qualification they have got at the present moment.

Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has introduced according to sastra, according to the indication of the sastras, just like in the Srimad-Bhagavatam and in other Puranas, and other Vedic scriptures this is recommended. In Kali-santarana Upanisad, in Brahmanda Purana, in Vayu Purana, this chanting of Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare is recommended. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu simply introduced it as a great propaganda. That is. Otherwise, this is recommended in every age. There are many devotees, they were chanting. But the process of meditation is not possible. Therefore simply on the basis of this process one can attain the highest perfectional stage.

Janardana: I understand that the revelation given by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the fullest revelation of spiritual knowledge. Is the fullest revelation of spiritual knowledge.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.

Janardana: How come that if in this age of Kali people in general are less intelligent, in this particular age they've received the fullest revelation of knowledge? Why not in the Satya-yuga?

Prabhupada: The fullest revelation of knowledge in Satya-yuga there was automatically. People were so advanced. Just like gradually we are declining our memory, duration of age, so many facilities we have declined. So in Satya-yuga people were by nature fortunate to have many facilities. So for this age, when we are in very fallen condition, this facility is offered so that we can take the same advantage as people in the Satya-yuga had by other processes. [break] They are not attending.

Pradyumna: I just want to clarify the meaning of dharma. Dharma always means, it always says the meaning, "That which cannot be changed."

Prabhupada: That is real dharma. Just like the spirit soul is eternal, similarly, the spirit soul's natural occupation is also eternal. That cannot be changed. But when the spirit soul identifies himself with this body and the mind, that is changed. Just like at the present moment you have got American body. So your dharma or your occupational duty is different from another body. And the next life, if you change this body, you become say other animal or human being, then your occupational duty changes. But if you stick up to the spiritual platform, then that service mood to the Supreme Personality of Godhead will never change, either in this body or next body. [break]

Pradyumna: ...the Bhagavad-gita if they weren't in the disciplic succession... Dharma isn't mentioned at all. Because "dharma" is used twice there. Once when Krsna comes because of discrepancy of dharma and then in the end, "Give up dharma." And they'd never understand that.

Prabhupada: Well, dharma, of course, as enunciated by Lord Caitanya, the dharma is that your perfec... [break] ...but those who have got money, they'll purchase it.

manusyanam sahasresu
kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam
kascin mam vetti tattvatah
[Bg. 7.3]

Lord Krsna said that out of many, many thousands of people, one becomes interested in perfection of life. And out of many, many thousands of persons who have attained perfection, they can understand Krsna. So Krsna understanding is also very difficult. Krsna is personally explaining Himself, His devotees are presenting Krsna consciousness movement, and right manner. But people are unfortunate. It will take some... But it is our duty to canvass. That is our business. Either they may accept or not accept, it is our duty. Just like in the university sometimes some particular class is maintained even at a loss. So there is no question of loss and gain. It is our duty to serve Krsna; therefore we shall go on trying, trying for it, to distribute Krsna consciousness.

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: What is that?

Devotee: Well, I don't fully understand in this... Something about Subhadra. Is the relation to...?

Prabhupada: Subhadra? Subhadra is the sister of Krsna, and she is incarnation of Durga.

Devotee: Subhadra is the external, external energy? Is Subhadra in the spiritual world? Is Subhadra in the spiritual world?

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.

Devotee: She's in the spiritual world?

Prabhupada: No. In one sense, she is also in spiritual world because she is energy of Krsna. So Krsna's energy is also eternal. So wherever Krsna is there, His energy is there. But her activities are in the material world.

Just like a king is there, and he has got all kinds of officers with him, but some officer is engaged in the government house. Other officers, they are engaged outside the government house. The officers who have got engagement outside the government house they may be sitting with Krsna, may be sitting with the governor or the king, but he has no business within the government house. In the government house there is a particular secretary, particular man in charge.

Similarly, in the spiritual world, the energy which is working, that is called yogamaya. And in the material world, the energy which is working, that is called mahamaya. So Subhadra is... Visnu-saktih para prokta [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. Actually, Krsna's energy is spiritual. That is not material.

Just try to understand that there is department of welfare and there is department of police. It does not mean that welfare department is very favorite to the government and police department is not favorite. Do you think it is like that? For the government, both the departments are equal. Just try to understand. So the material energy is working in a different way, that does not mean that material energy is not liked by Krsna. It has got the same importance as the spiritual energy. But the material energy is engaged in a thankless task for punishing the conditioned soul. Just like the police department. So for Krsna, there is no difference between material energy and spiritual energy. For Krsna it is all the same because He has got one energy. Just like electricity. Somewhere it is working for cooling purpose and somewhere it is working for heating purpose. But the generation of electric from the electric powerhouse, the energy is the same, electric. Similarly, Krsna's energy is always spiritual. There is no difference His energy and He. But it is acting in a different way. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Vividhaiva sruyate. Parasya saktih, the Supreme Lord, He has got energy. The energy is one. And similarly, He is, in some of the Puranas it is described that Durga is also Radharani. In the Brahma-samhita you'll find it. Have you read it? Yes. So so far energy is concerned, it is always spiritual, but it is acting in a different way, in a different field of activities. It is clear? Not clear you say?
Devotee: I think it's as much clear as it can be.

Prabhupada: What is the difficulty of understanding? The energy is one. Krsna's energy is one. Visnu-saktih para prokta [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. So in relationship to Krsna there is no distinction of energy, but for our understanding we can take that it is working sometimes in inferior qualitative form. Just like in this material world, and sometimes it is working in superior qualitative form in the spiritual world.

The same thing, that electric energy sometimes working for cooling, sometimes working for heating. But to the engineer of electric energy, who is generating, for him there is no such distinction. But those who are using it, they are thinking it is hot, it is cool, but the energy is the same. Try to understand in this way. Krsna's energy, He cannot, I mean to say, distribute any inferior energy because He's not inferior. He's always superior, spiritual. Therefore His energy is always spiritual. But it is working for different purposes.

The material energy... I shall give you another example. Just like in the street light there is red light and green light and yellow light. The yellow light is, I mean to say, seen sometimes. But either the red light or the green light is always. But it is working under the same electric energy. Sometimes it appearing green, sometimes appearing yellow, sometimes appearing red. But on the background the same energy. Now, by the red light you have to stop, by green light you can start. Your activity becomes different by different light because light is acting by the same energy.

In the Bhagavad-gita it is also said that mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10]. In the Brahma-samhita also it is said, chayeva yasya bhuvanani vibharti durga. She is also acting under Krsna's direction. So how she can be inferior?

Just like the criminals, they are thinking that "This police department is inferior or very botheration, bothering." It is in relation with me. But police department is not inferior department of the government. It has to act like that.

Similarly, material energy has to act to bewilder the living entities. That is under the direction of Krsna. We living entities under the material energy, we wanted to lord it over the material nature. So Krsna has given us facility: "All right. You try to." Because you cannot lord it over. This is false. But I have got the tendency to lord it over the material nature. So He's giving me the chance, but actually I cannot. Jada-bidya jato mayara vaibhava.

Now in the modern trend of civilization we are trying to control over the material nature, but actually we are being defeated. We try to control one law and we are being defeated by another law. Therefore great scientists like Professor Einstein, they thought defeated. That is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Parabhavas tavad abodha-jatah. So long we are in ignorance how these laws of nature working under the Supreme direction, so our study of all these material nature's law is defeat. This is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam.

And when we understand, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10], so that is the real understanding, to understand the lawmaker. Not to be struck with wonder with the activities of the law. The Vaisnavas, they are concerned with the background lawmaker. And if you know the lawmaker, then automatically you know the laws, how they are acting. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijnate sarvam idam vijnatam bhavati, the Vedic literatures says. So when we understand Krsna in perfection we can understand how His energy and different energies are working it will be revealed to us. And because all energies are working under the direction of Krsna, because it is in touch with Krsna, therefore nothing is inferior or material. Everything is spiritual. And higher platform therefore one can understand, sarvam khalv idam brahma. Whatever is acting...

In the Visnu Purana also, the same thing is confirmed, parasya brahmanah saktis tathedam akhilam jagat. Whatever we are experiencing, that is simply action and reaction of the different energy of the Supreme Lord. Parasya brahmanah saktis tathedam akhilam jagat. So when we understand Krsna perfectly, then this distinction of superior, inferior, will disappear.

Just like some fruit you have purchased. You have purchased from the market, and some you are eating. So it is called inferior energy. The same fruit you offer to Krsna and eat, this is called superior energy. Now, how the same fruit becomes immediately from inferior condition to superior? Because it is offered to Krsna. Do you follow? Because it is offered to Krsna, ordinary rice, one say it is bhata. But we say prasadam. A man may question how it has become prasadam? It is bhata, rice. No. Because it is offered to Krsna, therefore it has changed its quality from inferior to superior.

So anything engaged in the service of Krsna, it is superior. In the higher sense, everything is serving Krsna. So those who are highly elevated to understand... But that is not to be imitated. For them, there is no higher or lower or superior or inferior. Everything he sees in Krsna connection. That is very higher stage of life. That is not to be imitated. Actually, when one is perfectly spiritually enlightened, for him there is no such distinction inferior or superior. Everything in connection with Krsna is superior. [break]

Pradyumna: ...chanting Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: Therefore Krsna consciousness is the main principle. Who is acting. The person who is acting, if he is in Krsna consciousness then whatever he is acting that is spiritual. Yes?

Pradyumna: In the first and the second chapter, also, about dharma in the second chapter. It says ahaituki and another... So that devotional service has to be causeless in order to be the perfect conductor?

Prabhupada: Yes. All right. Let us have kirtana. Yes, you want to ask? Yes.

Devotee: Man has forgotten and is serving maya, he's actually serving Krsna anyway then why is he miserable?

Prabhupada: That is maya. When you serve maya then you get miseries. Just like a man who is serving in the prisonhouse, he is also serving the government, but he is in misery. That is called maya. He's also serving. That is explained by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. When he's serving favorably, he is happy. When he is serving unfavorably or being forced, that is not bhakti, that is maya. He has to serve. That is his constitutional position. Either outside or inside, but he cannot but serve Krsna. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa. He's eternally servant. Either he understands or not understands, he is servant. But when he's serving consciousness, conscientiously, then he's deriving the real profit. And that is Krsna consciousness. Now chant. (kirtana) (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.7 -- Montreal, June 13, 1968