You Are Talking Like A Learned Man

73/08/17 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.11

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Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.):

sri bhagavan uvaca
asocan anvasocas tvam
prajna-vadams ca bhasase
gatasun agatasums ca
nanusocanti panditah
 [Bg. 2.11]

The Blessed Lord said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead."

Prabhupada: So, what is that thing which is living and dead? The body. The body is living and dead. So Krsna indirectly or directly chastised Arjuna that: "The behavior that you are showing, it is not like a learned man." Nanusocanti panditah. That means indirectly He said that, "You do not know things are there. Not learned. You are fool." In spite of Arjuna speaking so many things in support of his being nonviolent and not to kill his kinsmen, Krsna chastised him that "You are not learned. You are fool." So this is the position. Those who are under the bodily concept of life, they can speak so many learned things, but after all they are fool.

yasyatma-buddhi-kunape tri-dhatuke
sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih
yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij
janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah
 [SB 10.84.13]

In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, those who are under the bodily concept of life, they are described as follows: Yasya atma-buddhih. Atma means self. Atma-buddhih, in this body, what is this body? Kunape tri-dhatuke. It is a bag of three elements, kapha, pitta, vayu. Mucus, bile and air. So, or ordinarily you can understand, this is a combination, this material body is combination of flesh, bone, blood, mucus, stool, urine, and so many other things. That, we are not self, but the foolish persons, they are taking this lump of matter, bones and flesh, accepting that "I am this body." No learned man will take like that. The whole world is misled under this conception. They are accepting this lump of matter, blood and flesh and bones -- "I am this is I am." This is animal mentality. Animal thinks like that, not learned man. Learned man, one who knows, he will say aham brahmasmi, "I am spirit soul. I am servant of God." This is learned speaking. "I am not this body."

So Krsna is chastising Arjuna because he has accepted, he's becoming His disciple, so the spiritual master has the right to chastise the disciple for right direction like the teacher, like the father. Similarly, although Krsna and Arjuna are friends, but Arjuna has accepted Him as spiritual master. There should not be any compromising words as it is done between friend and friend. The right things must be said that "You are wrong. Don't talk nonsense. Talking like very learned man but you do not know anything." "Why I do not know?" "Because this body, while living, agatasun..." Asun means the living force. While the living force is there, and when the living force is gone, two conditions... This body is moving very nicely because the living force is there. And as soon as the living force is gone out, this nice body will no longer move. It will decompose. "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." "Again become..." It is called panca-bhuta. Mix with the earth. Earth, water, fire, air, sky -- these five gross elements are the ingredients of this body. So as soon as the soul is out of this body, this body again... Conservation of the energy. The earthly energy goes to the earth, the waterly energy goes to the water. It is a combination of earth. water, air, fire. So they become decomposed. And become distributed to different elements. And that is the scientific law, it is called conservation of energy. The energy is never lost. It comes back again to the original stock.

 

So Krsna says this body, either in living force or without living force... Without living force it is called dead. With living force it is called living. In both the condition, a learned man..., learned man means one who knows brahma-bhutah. One who knows Brahman, one who has realized Brahman. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as one is on the stage of brahma-bhutah stage, he can understand that "I am not this body. I am separate from this body." This knowledge was very common knowledge. At least we can see five thousand years ago. The ksatriyas were fighting severely one another, but still they are not in bodily concept of life. So Arjuna being ksatriya, is so much embarrassed with the bodily concept of life; therefore Krsna chastised him, that "You are not a very learned man. You are talking just like a learned man, but you are not learned man." So this conclusion is to be taken by us. That anyone within this world, if he has got bodily concept of life, he's not a learned man. He's a fool. So this world at the present moment at least, it is a fool's paradise. Nobody is learned. Because everyone is working under the bodily concept of life. This is chastise. This is the first chastisement. Just like before giving lesson, if the student is writing or reading wrongly, then the teacher immediately says, "You fool, it is not like this. It should be like this."

So the first step Krsna took in educating Arjuna... The Bhagavad-gita is now being actually being spoken, bhagavan uvaca. The first basic principle is explained to Arjuna that "You do not know anything. Don't talk just like a learned man." Actually, that is our own... Every one of us in the same position. Just like yesterday, two boys came. No philosophy, talking like nonsense, starvation, as if he has taken, what is called? Contract for stopping starvation. He's starving, everyone is starving, this law, the nature will go on. Somebody, because there are three qualities of the nature -- sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. So the natural laws will go on under the three laws. Therefore always we shall find three classes or three status of living condition. That will be explained in Bhagavad-gita. Even, everywhere there are different species of life. Everywhere these three qualities are working. Just like there are some good trees. Good trees means which are producing nice fruits and flowers. They are good trees. And there are trees, no fruit, no flower, very long standing. No use. No useful purpose. I've seen in Los Angeles, big, big palm trees, very long, but there is no fruit. In India there are palm trees like that, they bear fruit, very nice fruit, tal. Very sweet fruit. So any tree which does not give us nice fruit or nice flower, that is sinful. Amongst the trees also there are pious trees, there are sinful trees, amongst the animals also there are pious animals, sinful animals. Just like dog and the cow. Cow is pious animal and the dog is sinful animal. So natures, amongst the birds, this crow is sinful bird. And the ducks, white swan, they are pious bird. The peacocks. So similarly in the human society also, there are pious men and sinful men. Those who are pious they have got different position. Janmaisvarya-sruta-sri.... [SB 1.8.26] Pious man means born in very good family, rich family. Janma, aisvarya, aisvarya means riches, opulence. Janma, first-class aristocratic family, brahmana family. Janmaisvarya-sruta, educated, highly educated; sri, beautiful. These are the signs of pious life. And similarly just the opposite, ugly, no education, born in poor family or low grade family, poor. These are the things.

So either you take human life or animal life or birds' life, beasts' life, trees' life, anywhere you go, these three laws are working. Goodness, passion and ignorance. Therefore, always there must be three classes. Middle class, high class and lower class. There must be. So you cannot make one classless. That is not possible. So long the bodily concept of life is there, there must be these three classes. High class, middle class and lower class. So those who are condemned, they must suffer. Everyone is condemned in this material world. But first-class condemned, second-class condemned, third-class condemned. So you'll find this first class, second class, third, you cannot stop it. Just like in Bombay sometimes I showed to my disciples, say in 1935. 1935 means about fifty years ago. Fifty years ago when I was in Bombay, that time I was doing some business. So a class of men, they were living on footpath. Their home (is) on the footpath. They have got a box or a bag and lying on the footpath and eating on the footpath, their, everything on the footpath. Now the same class of men are still there. Now economically, fifty years ago, the value of money was greater. At that time, fifty years ago we were purchasing, say ghee, at most one rupee per kilo. So now you cannot get first class ghee unless you pay twenty-five rupees per kilo. So the value of money has decreased. So that means, in other words people are getting more money. Formerly, one servant was engaged, ten rupees or twelve rupees per month. Now you cannot get a servant unless you pay one hundred rupees. So in that comparison, everyone is getting more money, but still the condition is the same. Condition is the same. This will go on. Even if you get more money, the other circumstances will force you to remain in the same condition as you were fifty years ago. Because you are destined. This is called destiny. You cannot change your destiny. That is not possible.

Therefore Bhagavata says that do not try to change your destiny. Everyone is trying to change the destiny. I am poor man, I must be very rich man. But you cannot change your destiny. Tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido na labhate yad bhramatam upary adhah [SB 1.5.18]. In this world we are, every one of us are bound up by the laws of karma, destiny. We have got our destiny. So much happiness, so much distress we must have. Because this is a mixture of happiness and distress. Here you cannot have unadulterated happiness. That is not possible in this... Unadulterated happiness, real happiness can be achieved in the spiritual world. Not in the material world. So certain amount of happiness and certain amount of distress we have to enjoy and suffer. You cannot change it. This is the law of nature in this material world.

Therefore Bhagavata says, tasyaiva hetoh prayeteta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah. People are wandering within this material world, living entity, in different forms of life under different conditions of life. But they are not getting the information of Krsna. That is their misfortune. So one who is fortunate during this period of continuous wandering in different species of life on different planets, he contacts another devotee. Guru-Krsna. Or one who is actually anxious to unite with the Supreme Lord, how one gets this consciousness -- by associating with devotees. Just like we are holding this class. Even those who are not devotee, outsider, if they come they can also understand, then he becomes, one becomes very seriously anxious how to understand God, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. Then Krsna immediately helps. This is the process. Krsna is there within your heart. As soon as you become little serious, immediately, Krsna is ready. Krsna is ready, He is sitting with you as a friend. Simply looking for the opportunity when you'll come back to Him. That is Krsna. He's always sitting with you. But we are not willing to go back to home, back to Godhead. We want to become God in this material world. This is our position. Instead of going back to home, back to Godhead, live with God, we want to become God here. That is our position. Therefore, we are suffering. Here, you can... Nowhere you cannot be God. God is one. Nobody can be equal or above Him. Everyone must be subordinate to God. Therefore those who are not learned -- foolish people -- they are trying to be happy in this material world by adjustment and becoming himself God. This is atheism and this is demoniac tendency. But those who are advanced in knowledge, they know that "We are eternally servant of God; we cannot become God. Better to remain servant of God; that is our happiness."

So those who are in the bodily concept of life, they cannot advance in this real knowledge, that we are eternally servant of God. Our constitutional position is like that. If we do not serve God, we do not agree... We are servant of God, but if we deny that "No, I am not servant," so that means I become servant of maya. Servant I'll have to remain. That is my constitutional position. So one must first of all understand what is his identity. So this is the beginning of a lesson given by Krsna, that "You are lamenting for this body. This is not your identity. This is not your identity. You are wrongly thinking." Just like if your coat is some way or other destroyed, that does not mean that you are destroyed. If your car by accident is broken, that does not mean that you are finished. Sometimes we get accident, that is another thing. But I am not the car. I am not this body, I am not this coat. This is real knowledge. Although sometimes we become little sorry, but the identity is different. So Krsna says that "You are talking like learned man, but you do not know your identity. You are not this body."

This is the summary information. Asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg. 2.11]. So anyone who is not in perfect knowledge, he should not take the position of talking like a learned man. That is cheating and that is foolishness. First of all you know things as they are. Then talk. Otherwise, it is said that it is better not to talk than to talk foolish. It is better to stop talking. Therefore, sometimes in spiritual advancement there is a process, maunam. Maunam means not to talk. Those who are too much foolish, the spiritual master orders him, "Don't talk. Please remain silent." That's all. Because if you talk, you'll talk simply nonsense. Why should you spoil your energy by such nonsense talking? Better stop. The meditation is also like that also. Instead of talking or doing nonsense, if one is remaining silent for some time, it is little good for him. But this meditation and maunam, silence, is not meant for the devotees. They are meant for the lesser intelligent class of men. Devotees' business is always to talk about Krsna. Why they should stop talking? Maunam? No. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that one has to chant and talk of Krsna twenty-four hours. Where is the question of maunam, silence? There is no question of silence. Silence is for those who are nonsense. "Be silent, don't talk." For them. At least they practice silence means at least they stop talking nonsense. But those who are actually advanced, for them there is no such restriction. Vacamsi vaikuntha-gunanuvarnane. We should use our talking power for describing the glories of the Lord. Vaikuntha-gunanuvarnane. That is kirtana. That is chanting. Abhavad naiyasaki-kirtane. Just like for seven days when Pariksit Maharaja was going to die... He had only seven days left. So twenty-four hours without any eating or without any drinking a drop of water, he went on hearing from Sukadeva Gosvami. And similarly, Sukadeva Gosvami also went on speaking, speaking Srimad-Bhagavatam. Sri-visnu-sravane pariksit. They got, both of them got salvation back to home, back to Godhead. How? One was hearing, and one was chanting. These two processes. Pariksit Maharaja was hearing and Sukadeva Gosvami was chanting. And what was the subject matter? Krsna. That's all.

So Krsna subject matter is so nice that simply you do not do anything. Simply hear, that's all. You have got God-given ear. You can hear. Sit down. Stane sthitah srutigatam tanuvan manobhih. Srutigatam, sruti means this ear. Srota-pantah. This is called srota-pantah. Getting knowledge by hearing. Satam prasangan mama virya-samvido bhavanty hrtkarna-rasayana-kathah, satam prasangat [SB 3.25.25]. When there is actually sat-sanga. Sat-sanga means this talking of Krsna, hearing about Krsna. When there is, there is no business. Not like a rented reciter or a paid reciter who is earning money by reciting. No, no. Not to hear from him. Actually, he's self-realized, who is working for the Lord, from satam. Satam means devotees. Satam prasanga. Therefore is called satsanga. Satsanga means the association of the devotees. Sat means devotee. Sat means God. Om tat sat. Or everything is asat. Asat means temporary. This material world is temporary. And sat means spiritual. So sat-sanga means spiritual association. Sat-sangan mukta-duh-sangah. The more you associate with sat, with devotees, then you become, more you become liberated. Sat-sangan mukta-duh-sangah. Duh-sanga. We are in the material world, we are simply in association, bad association, duh-sanga. So if we want to get rid of this bad association, we must associate with the devotees. Sat-sangat mukta duhsanga. And satam prasangat mama virya-samvido, if we hear in really devotee's association, then the... [break]

So Arjuna has got the best opportunity. He's hearing from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has got the... He's so fortunate. He's talking with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, face to face, directly. So our business should be we should follow the footsteps of Arjuna. How to follow the footsteps of Arjuna? As Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gita, you try to understand in that way. Arjuna accepted Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan [Bg. 10.12]. "Krsna, You are the Supreme Person, Param Brahman, pavitra, the most pure." So if we, similarly, if we, even if we do not understand Bhagavad-gita, if we follow that: "Arjuna has understood like this, that Krsna is the Supreme Brahman, Supreme Personality of Godhead," then you understand everything. This is called parampara. You don't require to, I mean, to tax your brain, what is Krsna. Because now we have got poor intelligence. We cannot do that. But you simply accept what Arjuna says. Then you are perfect. Even I make a, I may become a fool number one, but if I accept... Mahajano yena gatah sa pantha. Mahajana. Those who are authorities, if you follow the authorities, then you understand. Dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam. It is very difficult to understand what is religion, what is the process of religion. People are very much puzzled. But if we follow the great personalities... They are also mentioned in the sastras. Svayambhu, Sambhu, Manu, Kumara, Kapila, Manu. So if we follow their footsteps... Just like Arjuna. That, that is, really we understand. "If Arjuna has understood like this, so let me understand like that." That's all. Simple thing. Then we understand Bhagavad-gita. But, if we want to speak very learned scholarly, but do not understand what is Krsna, this is simply waste of time. As the so-called scholars and philosophers are doing. They do not understand Krsna, but talking all nonsense, and such things are very much appreciated by others. That is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: sva-vid-varaha-ustra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh. These rascals, so-called scholars, so-called incarnation, are accepted by similar class of animals. Sva-vid-varaha. And actually Vedic understanding is to follow the footsteps of the predecessor acaryas who understand things. Then our life will be successful. We'll understand.

Thank you very much. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.11 -- London, August 17, 1973

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Vaisnava Philosophy

Vaisnava Philosophy

Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.395
Hyderabad, August 17, 1976

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Prabhupada: Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya, om namo bhagavate vasudevaya, om namo bhagavate vasudevaya. This is from Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, Chapter Twenty.

kona brahmande kona lilara haya avasthana
tate lila 'nitya' kahe agama-purana

Agama-purana means Vedic literature. Agama, "which is coming from higher plane," not manufactured here. Agama-purana. And Purana means the old history of the world, Purana. Purana, some of the modern scholars, they take everything as mythology, imagination. That is not fact. They're real history. Purana. Purana means very old. Nityah sasvato yam purano [Bg. 2.20]. In Hindi it is called Purana. Purana means old. The Puranas means the old history, not only of this world, but of the whole universe. Purana is also Vedic evidence. Purana is not ordinary thing. Therefore here it is said, agama-purana. Vedic literatures. Srila Madhvacarya has accepted the Vedic literatures -- four Vedas, Vedanta-sutra, Upanisads, Puranas, Ramayana, Mahabharata. They're all Vedic literature. So here it is said, kono brahmande. (aside:) Come here. This room is very nice. Yes. Although it is not very big, but very comfortable. Daksina, daksina-raja.

So,

kona brahmande kona lilara haya avasthana
tate lila 'nitya' kahe agama-purana

Nitya-lila. Nitya-lila means everlasting pastimes. Our lila, material, that is not nitya-lila. Whatever I'm acting by this body, it is not nitya; it is temporary. I am the son of such and such family, I am such and such important person, my name is such and such, my position is such and such -- these are not nitya. This is temporary. As soon as the body is finished, everything is finished. Then another lila: I am such and such dog, I am such and such this and that. With the change of body, our lila is finished. Therefore ours is not nitya-lila. But Krsna's, Bhagavan's activities, they are nitya-lila. That is the difference. Nitya means eternal. Krsna's Vrndavana lila is going on. It is nitya-lila. Just like what is the time now? Quarter to eight. This quarter to eight is a crude example of the sun. It is going on. It is not that quarter to eight here, but when it will be eight, in some other place it is quarter to eight. Somewhere the sun is rising and setting within this regulation. Now suppose in Hyderabad it is quarter to eight and say it is in the eastern side.

Mahamsa: Central India.

Prabhupada: Central India. So the sun will pass. It will be eight. But the sun will go somewhere where it is quarter to eight. Is it not? Somewhere the sun will pass and it is quarter to eight. That quarter to eight is also permanent. Somewhere there will be, must be quarter to eight. This is crude example. This example is given by Caitanya Mahaprabhu to explain what is the meaning of nitya-lila.

So this is material example. And material, everything is temporary. Still we find some similarity of nitya-lila. And what to speak of spiritual. Spiritual, it is clearly said, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. So kono brahmande kona lilara haya avasthana. Just like we are opening the temple. This is also nitya-lila. In some brahmanda there is this opening ceremony of temple. When tomorrow we shall open, day after tomorrow it is opened. But day after tomorrow in some brahmanda it is being opened. This is nitya-lila. Some other brahmanda, again it is finished; in another brahmanda it is being opened. In another brahmanda it is being opened. There is no end. This is called nitya-lila. In some brahmanda Krsna is born, Janmastami. It is finished here. In other brahmanda, again Janmastami. Every moment. This is pastimes of Krsna. Kona brahmande kona lilara haya avasthana. There must be some... The same example: quarter to eight is somewhere. Similarly, Krsna's lila, it is eternal. Somewhere it is going on. And you have no experience of one brahmanda, what to speak of innumerable brahmandas.

Caitanya Mahaprabhu was requested by one of His devotees that "Sir, You have so kindly come. Please liberate all the living entities of this brahmanda, and You take them with You to Vaikuntha. And if You think that they're so sinful they cannot be taken away, then please give all their sinful actions to me. I shall suffer. You take them." This is (not) Vaisnava's philosophy, that "You suffer. I'll go to Vaikuntha." That is not Vaisnava philosophy. Vaisnava philosophy is that "I take your all sinful activities. Let me suffer here. You go to Vaikuntha." This is Vaisnava. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied, "Suppose I take all the living entities to Vaikuntha. Do you think that the maya's business will be stopped? No. This brahmanda is one of the mustard seeds in the bag of mustard seeds." In the bag of mustard seeds, can anybody count how many mustard seeds are there? So here it is called kona brahmanda. This is one of the brahmanda, universe. And there are so many universes that is just like this one seed of mustard. One grain of mustard seed, and there is a bag of mustard seeds. That is kona brahmande. So in each brahmanda Krsna's lila is going on. Now you count. This is Krsna. They become very cheaply God, Krsna, but they do not know what is Krsna. Therefore they take it so cheaply, that "Anyone can become God. Anyone can become Krsna." Mudha. Mayaya-apahrta-jnanah. These rascals they say like that. But they do not know what is Krsna.

manusyanam sahasresu
kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam
kascid vetti mam...
 [Bg. 7.3]

They do not know what is Krsna. Yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah [Bs. 5.48]. And they're coming out... Just like within our breathing there are so many things, particles, or germs are coming, similarly, with the breathing period of Maha-Visnu, so many universes are coming. This is Bhagavan. By breathing period innumerable universes are created. Not that they create something jugglery and become Bhagavan. Our conception of Bhagavan from the sastra is different.

So Krsna's creation of this brahmanda and His pastimes, they are going on, nitya-lila. Kona kona bhagavan ei dekhi bare paya. The lila is going on constantly, but one who is fortunate enough, he can see how lila is... Kona brahmande kona lila haya avasthana, tate lila 'nitya' kahe agama-purana. It is not that Krsna dasa Kaviraja Goswami is manufacturing some idea. No. He says, kahe agama-purana. "I do not manufacture anything." That is not acarya. Acarya does not manufacture anything concocted. He quotes from the Vedic literature. Agama-purana. That is the qualification. So,

goloka, gokula-dhama-'vibhu' krsna-sama
krsnecchaya brahmanda-gane tahara sankrama
 [Cc. Madhya 20.396]

So Krsna-lila is going on in the spiritual world, but by Krsna's desire that spiritual world also comes down in this material world. Just like a big man, he lives in his palace, but if he likes he can go anywhere, and he has the same facility of his palace by arrangement. Similarly, when Krsna comes within this material world, He has all the paraphernalia of his Goloka Vrndavana lila. As such this Vrndavana is as good as the original Vrndavana. Aradhyo bhagavan vrajesa, tanaya tad-dhamam vrndavanam. This Vrndavana is not ordinary place; it is the same Goloka Vrndavana. By Krsna's omnipotency the same Vrndavana is duplicated. It is possible. That is called nitya-lila. Wherever He likes, He can bring in Vrndavana and He can have His pastimes. So this temple, do not think that it is Hyderabad place. No. It is Goloka Vrndavana. You should be very careful. Aradhyo bhagavan vrajesa, tanaya tad-dhamam vrndavanam. As Krsna is worshipable, similarly His place is also worshipable. Not that His place is different from Him. No. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says, sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana-srngara-tan-mandira-marjanadau **. As the worship of the Deity is important, similarly, sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana-srngara-tan-mandira-marj anadau **. To keep the temple very cleansed, very attractive, that is also Deity worship. Those who are here working, they should keep this temple as clean as possible. Then Krsna will be satisfied. Krsna's body -- this temple. Do not think it otherwise. Temple should be worshiped in that way. Therefore I ask you not to come with shoes. Even the temple is not opened, it is still Krsna's temple. It is not different from Krsna. Sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana-srngara **. You should always remember that. The temple management very nicely means to render service to Krsna.

So we are going to open this temple. Those who are in charge, they must take care of the temple. Cleanliness. Tan-mandira-marjanadau. The more we have got men, engage them. And do not think that temple cleaning and Deity worshiping are different. Do not be envious, that "This person has been given the in charge of decorating the Deity, and I have (been) given to wash the temple where there are not Deity." No. It is the same thing. There is no difference. It is spiritual. In spiritual... Just like either you worship Krsna's lotus feet or you offer a garland to Krsna on His head, it is the same thing. It is no such thing as "This is head, this is tail." No. This is absolute conception of... So Bhagavan, His lila, His form, His pastimes, His place, they're all Bhagavan. Even higher, those who are highly elevated devotees, they do not see even this material world different from Bhagavan. Idam hi visvam bhagavan ivetara. That is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Narada Muni says. The whole universe is Bhagavan, although it appears different from Him. Bhagavan ivetara. So actually everything is Bhagavan, but it is not this Mayavada philosophy, that because everything is Bhagavan, there is no Bhagavan. No. Everything is Bhagavan, and still Bhagavan is there. Krsna says, maya tatam idam sarvam [Bg. 9.4]. Maya, a person is there. Otherwise, there is no use of the word maya. Maya tatam idam sarvam. Vaisnava philosophy is that this material world is expansion of the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And the Mayavada philosophy is that because God has become everything, there is no more God. Nirvisesa. That is called nirvisesa -- without understanding the beauty.

In this way, try to understand Krsna and His paraphernalia, His form, His name, His quality, everything. There are so many things to understand about Krsna. That is called Krsna consciousness. The materialistic persons, they will think that "These people are wasting time. They are doing nothing." But the agnostic, the material person, he does not know anything. Because here is the study of Krsna. And Krsna is so unlimited, what one life one can understand? It requires many lives. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyante [Bg. 7.19]. It is not so easy thing that we have understood immediately Krsna. Bahunam janmanam ante, after many, many births if one is fortunate, he can understand Krsna. So don't lose a single moment. Try to understand Krsna, agama-purana, from sastra. Don't manufacture. Here it is said, tate lila 'nitya' kahe agama-purana, from sastra. Sruti-smrti-puranadi pancaratriki vidhim vina [Brs. 1.2.101], you have to understand Krsna from the sastra. Sruti means veda, smrti means the history, the corollaries, just like Bhagavad-gita, Ramayana, Mahabharata. Sruti-smrti-puranadi, without reference to the Vedic literature, the knowledge of Krsna is simply disturbance. So you should always refer to the sastras. The sastras are there by Krsna's grace. It is now available in the English language. Be always engaged in studying, in rendering service, understanding the philosophy, then life will be successful. Thank you very much. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 20.395 -- Hyderabad, August 17, 1976

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Krishna Is Begging Your Love

Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.11
Montreal, August 17, 1968

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Prabhupada: (singing)

cintamani-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vrksa-
laksavrtesu surabhir abhipalayantam
laksmi-sahasra-sata-sambhrama-sevyamanam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
 [Bs. 5.29]

(devotees chant responsively:) Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami.

venum kvanantam aravinda-dalayataksam
barhavatamsam asitambuda-sundarangam
kandarpa-koti-kamaniya visesa-sobham
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
 [Bs. 5.30]

(devotees chant responsively:) Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami.

alola-candraka-lasad vana-malya-vamsi-
ratnangadam pranaya-keli-kala-vilasam
syamam tribhanga-lalitam niyata-prakasam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

 [Bs. 5.31]

angani yasya sakalendriya-vrttimanti
pasyanti panti kalayanti ciram jaganti
ananda-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
 [Bs. 5.32]

(devotees chant responsively:) Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami.

naivatmanah prabhur ayam nija-labha-purno
manam janad avidusah karuno vrnite
yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhita manam
tac catmane prati-mukhasya yatha mukha-srih
 [SB 7.9.11]

Now in the previous verse it has been explained that neither any material opulence, nor a qualified brahmana with twelve high qualifications can satisfy the Lord simply by such acquisition. One can satisfy the Lord simply by love and devotional service. Why? Doesn't He not... Then why so much opulence is created in erecting nice temple or churches and so much money is expended? Does it not satisfy the Lord? Why they are spending so much money? The modern economist says that this is unproductive investment. Because if you construct a very big temple... Just like in India we have got many temples, especially in South India, each of them is just like a fort, very big fort. There is a temple in Ranganatham, it is a few miles temple. There are seven gates. Very big temple. Many other temples. Similarly, in your country also there are many nice churches. I have traveled all over America, and I have seen very big churches. Here also, in Montreal, there are many big churches. So why they are spending so much money, although the modern economist will say it is nonproductive investment?

So this church building or temple building or mosque building is coming down from time immemorial. People are investing their money, hard-earned money. Why? Uselessly? Nonproductive? No. They do not know. They do not know how much productive that is. Therefore in this godless civilization they have stopped building nice, decorated... In Vrndavana there is a temple of Govindaji that was seven-storied. Four stories was broken by Aurangzeb on political grounds. Still, three stories are still remaining. If somebody goes there he'll see how wonderful workmanship is there in that temple. So does it mean that those kings or rich men, they were all fools? Simply at the present moment we are very intelligent? No. They are not fools. That is explained in the Prahlada Maharaja's prayers. Naivatmanah prabhur ayam nija-labha-purno. You cannot satisfy the Supreme Lord by constructing a nice temple, but still He is satisfied. Still, He is satisfied. He is nija-labha-purno. He is fully satisfied in Himself because He has no want. We are in want. Suppose I am renting one small apartment. If somebody says, "Swamiji, come on. I shall construct a very nice palatial temple. You come here." Oh, I shall be very much obliged. But does Krsna, or God, is like that? He can construct so many nice planets, not only one, two, but millions and billions, with so many nice oceans and hills and mountains and forests, and full of living entities. And why He is hankering after a temple constructed by me? No. That is not the fact.

The fact is that these fools, these rascals who are thinking that this world is for their enjoyment, this money belongs to him... It is stated here, avidusah. Avidusah means rascal, without any education. Without any education. They have got all these university degrees and without education? Yes. Why? Because they have no spiritual education. So avidusah. So manam janam avidusah karuno vrnite. When Krsna says or God says that "Give Me this...," Just like He is begging from Bali Maharaja, Vamanadeva, "My dear King, will you give Me a little land?" So his spiritual master, he was a demon. He forbade Bali Maharaja not to promise, because He is Visnu. "He'll take everything from you." That's a nice story. Some of you know how Bali Maharaja became a great devotee of the Lord. Now here it is stated that manam janad avidusah karuno vrnite. Whatever He wants from any person, provided he is a devotee... The Lord does not accept anything from nondevotee. That is clearly stated in Bhagavad-gita. Patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati [Bg. 9.26].

Here it is stated, nija-labha-purno. He is so opulent that He has no hankering. Complete. Sad-aisvarya purnah. He is complete with full six opulences. He is the richest, He is the wisest, He is the most famous, He is the most strong, influential, and renounced order. Everything is complete there. Then why He is asking that patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati? He is so rich, so opulent, still He is begging that "Little flower, a little water, a little fruit, if offered to Me with devotion and love, I accept and eat it." So the real fact is that we have lost our devotion, faith, in God. So He is begging therefore that love and faith. Not your money. Because He is already opulent. What you can give Him? And what belongs to you? Nothing belongs to you. You come from the womb of your mother openhanded, and when you die you go openhanded. So what does it belong to you? Nothing belongs to you. That's a fact. Simply by illusion, you come here for some days and you think, "This is mine." That's all. This is called maya. Actually, nothing belongs to you. Everything belongs to God, or Krsna. But you claim that it belongs to you. That is your maya. Therefore here it is said, manam janad avidusah karuno vrnite. Out of His causeless mercy He begs sometimes, "Give Me this." Just like sometimes father asks his child, "My dear boy, will you kindly give me a little cake from your portion?" And if the child is very fond of her (him), immediately gives. And sometimes he refuses, "No, I shall not give it." Similarly, Krsna is full. Why He's begging? He's begging your love. That's all. Whenever Krsna wants some service from you or begs something from you, it does not mean that He is in need of it. He is not in need of it. But He is in need of your love because you have forgotten how to love God, how to love Krsna. That he is practiced(?).

There is a story that some sannyasi went to a householder, because a sannyasi goes to householder for begging. They are begging also like that. They are not beggars, but they introduce as beggar so that the householder may receive and take some advantage of his knowledge. He is not beggar. So one beggar went to a householder, and the housewife said, "Oh, this beggar has come from door to door. Give him some ashes." So the sannyasi replied, "All right. Give me some ashes. Just begin your charity." Just begin your charity. So similarly, Krsna, when He wants, "Give Me a little flower, a little fruit, a little water," it does not mean that He is begging. He is just inducing me to the practice of offering everything which belongs to Krsna.

isavasyam idam sarvam
yad kincid jagatyam jagat
tena tyaktena bhunjitha
ma grdhah kasya svid dhanam
 [Iso mantra 1]

The Isopanisad instructs us that everything that is within your vision, it belongs to Isa, the Supreme Lord. Whatever you see, whatever you have got, that does not belong to you; it belongs to God. Tena tyaktena bhunjitha. This is the first verse in Isopanisad. Tena tyaktena bhunjitha. You can simply enjoy whatever is given to you as prasadam. Ma grdhah kasya svid dhanam. Don't touch any other's property. This is the instruction of Isopanisad.

So we have forgotten this. So in order to instruct us the principle that everything belongs to God, this is the beginning, that we should try to offer whatever we have got. Krsna is ready to accept from you a little bit of water, little bit of flower, a little bit of leaf, or fruit. Practically it has no value, but when you begin to give to Krsna, then gradually a time will come when you'll be prepared to give everything to Krsna like the gopis. This is the process. Sarvatmana. Sarvatmana. Sarvatmana means with everything. That is our natural life. When we are in consciousness that "Nothing belongs to me. Everything belongs to God, and everything is meant for God's enjoyment, not for my sense enjoyment," that is called Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness means to be situated in the actual fact. Whenever we claim something that "This is mine," it is called moha, illusion. Aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Janasya moho ayam. This conception of "mine" and "I" is the platform of illusion. Janasya moho 'yam. This world, whole world, is moving under this illusion that "I am this body, and everything..." "I am the monarch of all I survey." This is the philosophy. "Whatever I can acquire, that is mine." This is wrong. This is called illusion.

Therefore we should try to give to Krsna, not to ask. Because He has given us everything without asking. Without asking. We go to temple or churches to ask for our daily bread, but the birds and beasts, they have no churches, no temples, they do not ask. But how do they get their bread? Therefore according to Srimad-Bhagavatam, there is no actually bread problem. The only problem is that we have forgotten our relationship with God. Whatever... Tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido [SB 1.5.18]. Therefore the instruction of Bhagavata is, "Just try to revive your lost relationship with God, or Krsna." That relationship is never extinguished, but sometimes it is covered. Just like a crazy boy forgets his father and mother and home, goes away. But the relationship between the son and the parents cannot be lost. As soon as the son comes back, the parents receives him very nicely. Similarly, we are all sons of the Supreme Lord. We have forgotten our father, we have forgotten our relationship, and we are loitering in this material world as helpless, and if we revive our consciousness, our Krsna consciousness, that "My home is in the spiritual world. I am a foreigner in this material world..." Just like a foreigner is traveling from one place to another, similarly, I am also changing my body from one body to another, one planet to another. But there is no permanent settlement anywhere in this material world. This is our condition.

So Krsna consciousness means to be rightly situated in the original consciousness that we are all sons of God, Krsna. We have got eternal relationship with Him and He is the richest, the most opulent. As a rich man's son has no scarcity, no want, everything is supplied amply... Just like the Americans, they are... American or many other Western countries, the young men, they belong to a rich nation, so practically they have no want. But still why they are becoming hopeless and confused? Because this material want is not all. There is spiritual want. Unless that spiritual want is fulfilled, unless that spiritual relationship is reestablished, nobody can be happy. So in order to make us happy, Krsna says that "Begin with little flower, little water, or little fruit, and try to offer Me."

manam janad avidusah karuno vrnite
yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhita manam
tac catmane prati-mukhasya yatha mukha-srih

Just like if you decorate your face very nicely, how your face has become beautiful you cannot see. You cannot see. But as soon as you bring one mirror before your face, you'll see that in the mirror the reflection of your face is very nicely decorated. The same example is given here. We are reflection. We are reflection of God. Just like in the Bible it is said, "Man is made after God." God is not made after man. That is a mistake. The modern atheist class of men, they suggest that we manufacture a form of God according to our own form. Just like Krsna and Radha, the picture is there. They allege that we have made a Krsna form, maybe very beautiful, according to my form. But actually it is not. The Biblical truth is that man is made after God. Because we are sons of God, therefore God has got two hands, you have got also two hands. Just like your father has got two hands and you have got two hands, so you are made according to the body of your father, not that your father's body is made after your body. This is rationalism. Similarly, God's body is not made according to your body, but your body is made according to God's body. But this body is material; therefore we have to change. When we come to the spiritual platform, we get as good a body as that of Krsna, which is eternal, full of bliss and full of knowledge. This is called Krsna consciousness.

Now here it is said, yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhita manam. Whatever you are offering to Krsna... Practically, we see that we are offering so many nice foodstuffs to Krsna, but Krsna, apparently it appears that Krsna has not eaten. The prasadam is distributed among the devotees. Similarly, whatever is offered to the Supreme Lord, He is not in need of it, but He accepts it. He spiritualizes it, and it is meant for you. You are gainer. Whenever there is some special function to offer some nice foodstuffs to the Lord, you can take the prasadam, so actual gainer you are. But you are gainer in both ways. You taste very nice foodstuffs, at the same time you regain your spiritual consciousness. So yad yaj bhagavat..., yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhita manam. Whatever honor, respect, or presentation is given to the Lord, it is enjoyed by Him. It is enjoyed by Him. So how it is so? Just the same example: just like you decorate your face, but you cannot see directly how your face is beautiful. But when you put your mirror before the face, on the reflection you see very nice decoration. Similarly, if you decorate the Supreme Lord Krsna... That is the system of temple worship. Very nicely decorated temple, very nicely decorated Deity, all nice foodstuff offered to the Deity -- you will feel enjoyment. The more you do that, you'll feel enjoyment. It is not nonproductive. It is very spiritually productive process. Yad yaj jano vidadhita. Ayam prabhur isvara. Isvara, prabhu means isvara. Naivatmanah prabhur ayam nija-labha-purno. Prabhu means isvara. Prabhu means master, controller. If a person is controller, master of a big establishment, so what the laborer can offer him? He is already the proprietor. So here it is said, isvara avidusah akalpad janad manam pujam atmano 'rthe na vrnite. So do not foolishly think that the prescription given in the sastras that whatever you have got, offered to Krsna or offered to God, it is not that God is in want; it is your interest. The more you give to God, the more you become benefited. It is your interest. But the foolish persons, they do not know it. Therefore God, like Bali Maharaja, He goes, like Vamanadeva, He goes to beg from Bali Maharaja. And His representative, devotees of God, sannyasis, they also go to beg: "My dear sir, give us some contribution for our temple." It is not that he's beggar. It is for the person's benefit. He's spoiling his life in sense enjoyment, and this representative goes to him and takes some money from that hell-going activity and offers it to the Deity so he'll be saved. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Willingly or unwillingly, if you offer something to God, that will be a permanent credit. A permanent credit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Even little done, it can act so nicely that sometimes it can save you from the greatest danger.

Just like Ajamila. The story of Ajamila is that he was a son of a brahmana, and he was very nice boy. He was married, and he was acting just like a brahmana boy. One day he went to collect some flowers and some wood from the forest for his father's worship. His father was worshiping Deity, and he was helping. On the path he saw that one sudra and his wife, without any shame, they were embracing and kissing. This young boy became attracted. Therefore this system, that loving exchange or affairs should not be exhibited on the street. This is not very civilized form. In India it is not at all allowed. It is calculated indecent. There is punishment by law. But here the practice is different. But why it is so strict according to Vedic scripture? Here is the example. A young man was passing, and another young man and girl was embracing. Naturally he became excited. And of course this kind of embracing and kissing on the public street is done not by any high class. So he was a sudra. So this Ajamila was standing there, and the sudrani or the sudra woman also called, and he became more excited, and he embraced and kissed her, and gradually became attracted to her. And he left his wife and home and father and mother, then became drunkard and everything for that prostitute. At the last moment, when he was old enough, when he could not earn, he could not cheat to bring money, the man Ajamila was thrown in the street by that woman. Because she was not his legalized wife, she was prostitute. So did not like him. But this man had a youngest son whose name was Narayana. So when he was in precarious condition, he was just asking his youngest son Narayana, "My dear boy, please come here." And by reciting this word "Narayana," he remembered the same Narayana whom he worshiped in his early age. Just see. Because under the direction of his father, as a brahmana boy he was being trained up to become a devotee of Narayana, but unfortunately, he was misled by a prostitute, but still, he was saved at the last moment. And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat.

So anybody who is chanting Hare Krsna, even for a moment, it will never go in vain. It will act. It will act, and it will act so nicely that sometimes he'll be saved from the greatest danger. That experience some of our students have already expressed. One girl is present here, she also experienced this. She was attacked by some black Negroes, and she began to chant Hare Krsna, and she was saved. So these things are actual fact. There are many instances. So svalpam apy asya trayate mahato. So anything, a little flower, a little fruit, a little water, you offer to Krsna, or if you chant for a little while Hare Krsna, or if you make association with devotees for a moment, this will never go in vain. So the purpose of opening so many centers of Krsna consciousness is to give chance to these forgotten men, Krsna consciousness. It is not a business. It is a charitable institution. It is hospital to cure the material disease. So unfortunately, people are not taking very much advantage, but those who are fortunate, ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kono bhagyavan jiva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Bhagyavan. So only the fortunate persons. As it is also expressed in the Bhagavad-gita, yesam anta-gatam papam. One who is completely free from all sinful reaction, such person can take to Krsna consciousness. But the door is open for everyone. Everyone can come here and chant Hare Krsna. It is not difficult job. We distribute prasadam. So take advantage and be benefited in Krsna consciousness.

Thank you. Hare Krsna.

Nanda-kisora: When a living entity becomes pure soul...

Prabhupada: Oh, where is your neck...?

Nanda-kisora: Oh, I...

Prabhupada: [break] What is the harm? All right? Then?

Nanda-kisora: When a living entity becomes pure, purified, he is called sac-cid-ananda, he has perfect knowledge. And Krsna is also sac-cid-ananda. Is that knowledge the same?

Prabhupada: No. A living entity is subjected to be deluded by maya. But Krsna is not deluded by maya. That is the difference between Krsna and living entity.

Nanda-kisora: But the knowledge that a pure devotee has, that's not the... Even though it's perfect knowledge...

Prabhupada: No. It cannot be as perfect as Krsna's. That is not possible. Because you are part and parcel of Krsna. Just like a drop of ocean water and the vast mass of water, quantitatively they are different. Qualitatively they are one. Similarly, Krsna has knowledge and you have knowledge, but the quantity of Krsna's knowledge and your knowledge is different. He is full of all knowledge. You are almost full of all knowledge, but not exactly like Krsna. And especially in your conditional life you are covered. All your knowledge is covered. Even that fragmental knowledge is also covered. Therefore you are in illusion. Because we are fragmental, therefore we are subjected to be covered by the illusory spell. Just like the sky and the sun. Sometimes there is covering by cloud. The cloud covers a few miles or the cloud covers the eyes of living entities like us, but the cloud does not cover the sun or the whole sky. That is not possible. But a fragmental portion of the sky is covered by cloud, and because we are very teeny, if the cloud is spread only for ten miles we think, "Now the sun is covered." The sun is never covered. Similarly, the illusory energy cannot cover Krsna, but it can cover you. And we are in this covering condition. Therefore we have forgotten our relationship with Krsna. Now we have to uncover by Krsna's grace, or we'll have to go to the sunlight. It is not that the sun is covered by clouds. Where there is no cloud, if you go there, you'll get full advantage of the sunlight. Similarly, we have to search out place where there is no cloudy understanding. There must be clear understanding. Then you'll find yourself satisfied in the light.

Hamsaduta: Swamiji, in one of Professor Sanyal's books he says that the mind is an organ of the soul. Is that correct? I always thought the mind was part of the material, the subtle body, the subtle material body.

Prabhupada: No. Organ of the self. It is covered by the material energy. Originally, you have got everything. You have got mind, ego, and everything. Just like when I think, aham brahmasmi, "I am servant of Krsna," that is also ego, "I am." But that is pure. But as soon as I think "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this body," that is impure. This is impure egoism, and that is pure egoism. So ego is there. Similarly, mind is also there, intelligence is also there, but when it is covered by this material contamination it is called maya, and when it is out of material contamination, aham brahmasmi, "I am servant of Krsna. I shall act for Krsna, I shall live for Krsna, I shall eat for Krsna, I shall prepare foodstuff for Krsna, I shall sing for Krsna -- everything Krsna," that is liberated stage.

Hamsaduta: So that mind is part of the soul. It's just, it's polluted.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is a symptom of... Mind is the active principle. Without mind, how can you act? The mind is there. But at the present moment, becoming covered by the material energy, everything is contaminated. Mind is contaminated, the intelligence is contaminated, the ego is contaminated, I, or self, I am contaminated. Everything is contaminated. When you have got fever, there is pain all over the body. There is temperature all over the body. And when the fever is off, there is no temperature. Similarly, it is the difference of consciousness only. As soon as we take material consciousness, it is to be understood in feverish condition. And as soon as you take to Krsna consciousness, we are out of feverish condition. You want to ask? Yes, you can ask.

Nanda-kisora: Swamiji, what is... The material elements are described, the mind, intelligence, and false ego. What's the, what is that mind, you know, that material mind? In other words, there's a spiritual mind and a material mind?

Prabhupada: What is the difference of your material life and spiritual life?

Nanda-kisora: One is for Krsna, and one is for...

Prabhupada: That is the difference between material mind and spiritual mind. Because you are thinking that you are this body, this is material conception. Therefore everything is material -- mind, intelligence, and identification, everything material. Similarly, if you think, that thinking means mind, that you are Krsna's, then everything is spiritual. That we have to practice. That is Krsna consciousness. We have to keep ourselves always in Krsna consciousness. Iha yasya harer dasye. And what is Krsna consciousness? Krsna consciousness means to... Iha. Iha means desire. Desire is a function of mind. So iha means desire. So what is that desire? Iha yasya harer dasye. Anyone whose desire is to engage himself in the service of Krsna. So whole Krsna consciousness activity is purification of the mind, of the intelligence, of the ego, everything, purifying process. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. The impurification is that upadhi, designation. I'm thinking "I am American," "I am Indian." This is designation. Actually, spirit soul is neither American nor Indian nor Hindu nor Muslim. So one has to get out of this entanglement, material entanglement. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. And how one can become purified? Tat-paratvena, when he identifies himself, aham brahmasmi, "I am servant of Krsna. I am Brahman, I am pure self. I'm not matter. I'm not this body." This is the stage of purification. And when one is purified, then hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate. Hrsika means senses. So mind is also one of the senses. There are eleven senses. Five senses gathering knowledge and five senses working, and mind is the center. So mind is also accepted as sense. So hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When your purified senses are applied in the service of the master of the senses, Hrsikesa, that is called bhakti. This is the definition of bhakti. So mind required there. You are thinking that "I shall decorate Krsna in such a way." That is a function of mind. And as soon as you think that "I shall decorate my such and such person in this way," that is maya. So mind is there. Sometimes it is acting for maya, and when it is acting for Krsna then it is purified. So in the Krsna consciousness nothing has to be eradicated. Everything has to be purified. This is the Krsna consciousness process. Yes?

Malati: When they go back to Godhead, some people can remember their past lives.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Malati: In the mind.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Malati: I thought the mind was left behind.

Prabhupada: No. Actually mind carries you to the next body. So mind goes with you. The material mind, material ego, material intelligence become nil when you are completely liberated. But at that time your spiritual mind acts. It is not very difficult to understand. Somebody is acting under the impression... Just like one of our students, he was acting under the impression that he is Frenchman and doing something subversive, and now he is thinking that "I am Krsna's." (chuckles) He has stopped all those nonsense. [break] When he was thinking that he's a Frenchman, that mind was there. And now he's thinking that "I am Krsna's," the mind is there. So where is the chance of losing the mind? You want to question anything? [break] This boy?

Hamsaduta: She. It's a girl.

Prabhupada: It is a girl? Oh. That's all right. (chuckles) So any other questions? Otherwise chant Krsna. Yes?

Malati: I don't understand how materialistic people, if they have material minds, they can remember their past lives.

Prabhupada: Material mind has to be treated by spiritual medicine, then the material mind will be spiritual. Just the same example, that a man has got some bowel disturbance by drinking excessive milk, and the physician gives him another milk preparation, curd, and he is cured. Similarly, the Krsna consciousness movement is just to treat the mind by Krsna engagement. Then he becomes freed from material contamination. And actually it is happening. Those who are taking to this treatment, they are experiencing how it is happening. The door is closed? Why? Open. (kirtana) (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.11 -- Montreal, August 17, 1968

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

"You Are Talking Like A Learned Man"

"You Are Talking Like A Learned Man"

73/08/17 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.11


Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.):

sri bhagavan uvaca
asocan anvasocas tvam
prajna-vadams ca bhasase
gatasun agatasums ca
nanusocanti panditah
[Bg. 2.11]

The Blessed Lord said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead."

Prabhupada: So, what is that thing which is living and dead? The body. The body is living and dead. So Krsna indirectly or directly chastised Arjuna that: "The behavior that you are showing, it is not like a learned man." Nanusocanti panditah. That means indirectly He said that, "You do not know things are there. Not learned. You are fool." In spite of Arjuna speaking so many things in support of his being nonviolent and not to kill his kinsmen, Krsna chastised him that "You are not learned. You are fool." So this is the position. Those who are under the bodily concept of life, they can speak so many learned things, but after all they are fool.

yasyatma-buddhi-kunape tri-dhatuke
sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih
yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij
janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah
[SB 10.84.13]

In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, those who are under the bodily concept of life, they are described as follows: Yasya atma-buddhih. Atma means self. Atma-buddhih, in this body, what is this body? Kunape tri-dhatuke. It is a bag of three elements, kapha, pitta, vayu. Mucus, bile and air. So, or ordinarily you can understand, this is a combination, this material body is combination of flesh, bone, blood, mucus, stool, urine, and so many other things. That, we are not self, but the foolish persons, they are taking this lump of matter, bones and flesh, accepting that "I am this body." No learned man will take like that. The whole world is misled under this conception. They are accepting this lump of matter, blood and flesh and bones -- "I am this is I am." This is animal mentality. Animal thinks like that, not learned man. Learned man, one who knows, he will say aham brahmasmi, "I am spirit soul. I am servant of God." This is learned speaking. "I am not this body."

So Krsna is chastising Arjuna because he has accepted, he's becoming His disciple, so the spiritual master has the right to chastise the disciple for right direction like the teacher, like the father. Similarly, although Krsna and Arjuna are friends, but Arjuna has accepted Him as spiritual master. There should not be any compromising words as it is done between friend and friend. The right things must be said that "You are wrong. Don't talk nonsense. Talking like very learned man but you do not know anything." "Why I do not know?" "Because this body, while living, agatasun..." Asun means the living force. While the living force is there, and when the living force is gone, two conditions... This body is moving very nicely because the living force is there. And as soon as the living force is gone out, this nice body will no longer move. It will decompose. "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." "Again become..." It is called panca-bhuta. Mix with the earth. Earth, water, fire, air, sky -- these five gross elements are the ingredients of this body. So as soon as the soul is out of this body, this body again... Conservation of the energy. The earthly energy goes to the earth, the waterly energy goes to the water. It is a combination of earth. water, air, fire. So they become decomposed. And become distributed to different elements. And that is the scientific law, it is called conservation of energy. The energy is never lost. It comes back again to the original stock.

So Krsna says this body, either in living force or without living force... Without living force it is called dead. With living force it is called living. In both the condition, a learned man..., learned man means one who knows brahma-bhutah. One who knows Brahman, one who has realized Brahman. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as one is on the stage of brahma-bhutah stage, he can understand that "I am not this body. I am separate from this body." This knowledge was very common knowledge. At least we can see five thousand years ago. The ksatriyas were fighting severely one another, but still they are not in bodily concept of life. So Arjuna being ksatriya, is so much embarrassed with the bodily concept of life; therefore Krsna chastised him, that "You are not a very learned man. You are talking just like a learned man, but you are not learned man." So this conclusion is to be taken by us. That anyone within this world, if he has got bodily concept of life, he's not a learned man. He's a fool. So this world at the present moment at least, it is a fool's paradise. Nobody is learned. Because everyone is working under the bodily concept of life. This is chastise. This is the first chastisement. Just like before giving lesson, if the student is writing or reading wrongly, then the teacher immediately says, "You fool, it is not like this. It should be like this."

So the first step Krsna took in educating Arjuna... The Bhagavad-gita is now being actually being spoken, bhagavan uvaca. The first basic principle is explained to Arjuna that "You do not know anything. Don't talk just like a learned man." Actually, that is our own... Every one of us in the same position. Just like yesterday, two boys came. No philosophy, talking like nonsense, starvation, as if he has taken, what is called? Contract for stopping starvation. He's starving, everyone is starving, this law, the nature will go on. Somebody, because there are three qualities of the nature -- sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. So the natural laws will go on under the three laws. Therefore always we shall find three classes or three status of living condition. That will be explained in Bhagavad-gita. Even, everywhere there are different species of life. Everywhere these three qualities are working. Just like there are some good trees. Good trees means which are producing nice fruits and flowers. They are good trees. And there are trees, no fruit, no flower, very long standing. No use. No useful purpose. I've seen in Los Angeles, big, big palm trees, very long, but there is no fruit. In India there are palm trees like that, they bear fruit, very nice fruit, tal. Very sweet fruit. So any tree which does not give us nice fruit or nice flower, that is sinful. Amongst the trees also there are pious trees, there are sinful trees, amongst the animals also there are pious animals, sinful animals. Just like dog and the cow. Cow is pious animal and the dog is sinful animal. So natures, amongst the birds, this crow is sinful bird. And the ducks, white swan, they are pious bird. The peacocks. So similarly in the human society also, there are pious men and sinful men. Those who are pious they have got different position. Janmaisvarya-sruta-sri.... [SB 1.8.26] Pious man means born in very good family, rich family. Janma, aisvarya, aisvarya means riches, opulence. Janma, first-class aristocratic family, brahmana family. Janmaisvarya-sruta, educated, highly educated; sri, beautiful. These are the signs of pious life. And similarly just the opposite, ugly, no education, born in poor family or low grade family, poor. These are the things.

So either you take human life or animal life or birds' life, beasts' life, trees' life, anywhere you go, these three laws are working. Goodness, passion and ignorance. Therefore, always there must be three classes. Middle class, high class and lower class. There must be. So you cannot make one classless. That is not possible. So long the bodily concept of life is there, there must be these three classes. High class, middle class and lower class. So those who are condemned, they must suffer. Everyone is condemned in this material world. But first-class condemned, second-class condemned, third-class condemned. So you'll find this first class, second class, third, you cannot stop it. Just like in Bombay sometimes I showed to my disciples, say in 1935. 1935 means about fifty years ago. Fifty years ago when I was in Bombay, that time I was doing some business. So a class of men, they were living on footpath. Their home (is) on the footpath. They have got a box or a bag and lying on the footpath and eating on the footpath, their, everything on the footpath. Now the same class of men are still there. Now economically, fifty years ago, the value of money was greater. At that time, fifty years ago we were purchasing, say ghee, at most one rupee per kilo. So now you cannot get first class ghee unless you pay twenty-five rupees per kilo. So the value of money has decreased. So that means, in other words people are getting more money. Formerly, one servant was engaged, ten rupees or twelve rupees per month. Now you cannot get a servant unless you pay one hundred rupees. So in that comparison, everyone is getting more money, but still the condition is the same. Condition is the same. This will go on. Even if you get more money, the other circumstances will force you to remain in the same condition as you were fifty years ago. Because you are destined. This is called destiny. You cannot change your destiny. That is not possible.

Therefore Bhagavata says that do not try to change your destiny. Everyone is trying to change the destiny. I am poor man, I must be very rich man. But you cannot change your destiny. Tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido na labhate yad bhramatam upary adhah [SB 1.5.18]. In this world we are, every one of us are bound up by the laws of karma, destiny. We have got our destiny. So much happiness, so much distress we must have. Because this is a mixture of happiness and distress. Here you cannot have unadulterated happiness. That is not possible in this... Unadulterated happiness, real happiness can be achieved in the spiritual world. Not in the material world. So certain amount of happiness and certain amount of distress we have to enjoy and suffer. You cannot change it. This is the law of nature in this material world.

Therefore Bhagavata says, tasyaiva hetoh prayeteta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah. People are wandering within this material world, living entity, in different forms of life under different conditions of life. But they are not getting the information of Krsna. That is their misfortune. So one who is fortunate during this period of continuous wandering in different species of life on different planets, he contacts another devotee. Guru-Krsna. Or one who is actually anxious to unite with the Supreme Lord, how one gets this consciousness -- by associating with devotees. Just like we are holding this class. Even those who are not devotee, outsider, if they come they can also understand, then he becomes, one becomes very seriously anxious how to understand God, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. Then Krsna immediately helps. This is the process. Krsna is there within your heart. As soon as you become little serious, immediately, Krsna is ready. Krsna is ready, He is sitting with you as a friend. Simply looking for the opportunity when you'll come back to Him. That is Krsna. He's always sitting with you. But we are not willing to go back to home, back to Godhead. We want to become God in this material world. This is our position. Instead of going back to home, back to Godhead, live with God, we want to become God here. That is our position. Therefore, we are suffering. Here, you can... Nowhere you cannot be God. God is one. Nobody can be equal or above Him. Everyone must be subordinate to God. Therefore those who are not learned -- foolish people -- they are trying to be happy in this material world by adjustment and becoming himself God. This is atheism and this is demoniac tendency. But those who are advanced in knowledge, they know that "We are eternally servant of God; we cannot become God. Better to remain servant of God; that is our happiness."

So those who are in the bodily concept of life, they cannot advance in this real knowledge, that we are eternally servant of God. Our constitutional position is like that. If we do not serve God, we do not agree... We are servant of God, but if we deny that "No, I am not servant," so that means I become servant of maya. Servant I'll have to remain. That is my constitutional position. So one must first of all understand what is his identity. So this is the beginning of a lesson given by Krsna, that "You are lamenting for this body. This is not your identity. This is not your identity. You are wrongly thinking." Just like if your coat is some way or other destroyed, that does not mean that you are destroyed. If your car by accident is broken, that does not mean that you are finished. Sometimes we get accident, that is another thing. But I am not the car. I am not this body, I am not this coat. This is real knowledge. Although sometimes we become little sorry, but the identity is different. So Krsna says that "You are talking like learned man, but you do not know your identity. You are not this body."

This is the summary information. Asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg. 2.11]. So anyone who is not in perfect knowledge, he should not take the position of talking like a learned man. That is cheating and that is foolishness. First of all you know things as they are. Then talk. Otherwise, it is said that it is better not to talk than to talk foolish. It is better to stop talking. Therefore, sometimes in spiritual advancement there is a process, maunam. Maunam means not to talk. Those who are too much foolish, the spiritual master orders him, "Don't talk. Please remain silent." That's all. Because if you talk, you'll talk simply nonsense. Why should you spoil your energy by such nonsense talking? Better stop. The meditation is also like that also. Instead of talking or doing nonsense, if one is remaining silent for some time, it is little good for him. But this meditation and maunam, silence, is not meant for the devotees. They are meant for the lesser intelligent class of men. Devotees' business is always to talk about Krsna. Why they should stop talking? Maunam? No. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that one has to chant and talk of Krsna twenty-four hours. Where is the question of maunam, silence? There is no question of silence. Silence is for those who are nonsense. "Be silent, don't talk." For them. At least they practice silence means at least they stop talking nonsense. But those who are actually advanced, for them there is no such restriction. Vacamsi vaikuntha-gunanuvarnane. We should use our talking power for describing the glories of the Lord. Vaikuntha-gunanuvarnane. That is kirtana. That is chanting. Abhavad naiyasaki-kirtane. Just like for seven days when Pariksit Maharaja was going to die... He had only seven days left. So twenty-four hours without any eating or without any drinking a drop of water, he went on hearing from Sukadeva Gosvami. And similarly, Sukadeva Gosvami also went on speaking, speaking Srimad-Bhagavatam. Sri-visnu-sravane pariksit. They got, both of them got salvation back to home, back to Godhead. How? One was hearing, and one was chanting. These two processes. Pariksit Maharaja was hearing and Sukadeva Gosvami was chanting. And what was the subject matter? Krsna. That's all.

So Krsna subject matter is so nice that simply you do not do anything. Simply hear, that's all. You have got God-given ear. You can hear. Sit down. Stane sthitah srutigatam tanuvan manobhih. Srutigatam, sruti means this ear. Srota-pantah. This is called srota-pantah. Getting knowledge by hearing. Satam prasangan mama virya-samvido bhavanty hrtkarna-rasayana-kathah, satam prasangat [SB 3.25.25]. When there is actually sat-sanga. Sat-sanga means this talking of Krsna, hearing about Krsna. When there is, there is no business. Not like a rented reciter or a paid reciter who is earning money by reciting. No, no. Not to hear from him. Actually, he's self-realized, who is working for the Lord, from satam. Satam means devotees. Satam prasanga. Therefore is called satsanga. Satsanga means the association of the devotees. Sat means devotee. Sat means God. Om tat sat. Or everything is asat. Asat means temporary. This material world is temporary. And sat means spiritual. So sat-sanga means spiritual association. Sat-sangan mukta-duh-sangah. The more you associate with sat, with devotees, then you become, more you become liberated. Sat-sangan mukta-duh-sangah. Duh-sanga. We are in the material world, we are simply in association, bad association, duh-sanga. So if we want to get rid of this bad association, we must associate with the devotees. Sat-sangat mukta duhsanga. And satam prasangat mama virya-samvido, if we hear in really devotee's association, then the... [break]

So Arjuna has got the best opportunity. He's hearing from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has got the... He's so fortunate. He's talking with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, face to face, directly. So our business should be we should follow the footsteps of Arjuna. How to follow the footsteps of Arjuna? As Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gita, you try to understand in that way. Arjuna accepted Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan [Bg. 10.12]. "Krsna, You are the Supreme Person, Param Brahman, pavitra, the most pure." So if we, similarly, if we, even if we do not understand Bhagavad-gita, if we follow that: "Arjuna has understood like this, that Krsna is the Supreme Brahman, Supreme Personality of Godhead," then you understand everything. This is called parampara. You don't require to, I mean, to tax your brain, what is Krsna. Because now we have got poor intelligence. We cannot do that. But you simply accept what Arjuna says. Then you are perfect. Even I make a, I may become a fool number one, but if I accept... Mahajano yena gatah sa pantha. Mahajana. Those who are authorities, if you follow the authorities, then you understand. Dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam. It is very difficult to understand what is religion, what is the process of religion. People are very much puzzled. But if we follow the great personalities... They are also mentioned in the sastras. Svayambhu, Sambhu, Manu, Kumara, Kapila, Manu. So if we follow their footsteps... Just like Arjuna. That, that is, really we understand. "If Arjuna has understood like this, so let me understand like that." That's all. Simple thing. Then we understand Bhagavad-gita. But, if we want to speak very learned scholarly, but do not understand what is Krsna, this is simply waste of time. As the so-called scholars and philosophers are doing. They do not understand Krsna, but talking all nonsense, and such things are very much appreciated by others. That is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: sva-vid-varaha-ustra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh. These rascals, so-called scholars, so-called incarnation, are accepted by similar class of animals. Sva-vid-varaha. And actually Vedic understanding is to follow the footsteps of the predecessor acaryas who understand things. Then our life will be successful. We'll understand.

Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.11 -- London, August 17, 1973