Bombay, November 2, 1975
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Prabhupada: That is the first
education, first instruction in the Bhagavad-gita, beginning of
Bhagavad-gita-dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha
dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. Unless one understands that "There is change of
body and I am spirit soul within this body," he remains a cat and dog, and
that's all. Dehatma-buddhih. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sa eva
go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. So we are keeping this civilization -- animals. How
there can be peace? You cannot make several dogs, bring them together as nation,
and they will live peacefully. It is not possible that "You all dogs come here
and feel nationally and be peaceful." Will the dogs will be able to do that?
Because you are dog, it is not possible.Dr. Patel: (Hindi) They fight among
themselves for nothing.
Prabhupada: Yes. So they are keeping them cats and dogs by education, culture, and they want to be happy. How it is possible? First of all let them come to the standard of human being. Then there is question of peace and happiness. They are kept as cats and dogs, and how there can be peace? You cannot make any peace in the dog society. That is not possible. Hare Krsna. So that consciousness can come only when one is spiritually educated. If he is simply engaged for satisfying the senses, material, then he remains a cat and dog. You cannot expect any peace.
Dr. Patel: I think the greatest damage done to this civilization of Aryans of India was by MacCauley, who introduced the British system of education.
Prabhupada: But why you accepted that? (laughter) Why you accepted? Then why don't you accept? You should have refused.
Dr. Patel: Well, we were not there to refuse. We came afterwards. Our forefathers gave us...
Prabhupada: No, you can... Just like they are reforming. Their forefathers were drunkards, woman-hunters, (laughter) and they are reformed, the great-grandchildren. And we old men, we cannot do that.
Dr. Patel: I talk of MacCauley...
Prabhupada: MacCauley may mislead you. Why you should believe?
Dr. Patel: He misled our forefathers.
Prabhupada: No, why you should be misled?
Dr. Patel: Now we are going to lead them. Are you not leading them?
Prabhupada: Yes. Your forefathers might have been misled, but why you will commit the same mistake again?
Dr. Patel: Now we have improved upon the mistake and we are leading them, and we will lead them.
Prabhupada: No, that is not the fact. These boys, European, American boys, they were misled from the very beginning of their life, but how they are improving in spiritual consciousness? The thing is we are not prepared to take up our own culture. That is...
Dr. Patel: That's right, sir. God must have some, something to fulfill.
Prabhupada: Take for example our big leader, Mahatma Gandhi. He was supposed to be very good scholar in Bhagavad-gita. Did he ever preach that "You are not this body?"
Dr. Patel: I come from the ashram. Yes, he did.
Prabhupada: Then where is the question of nationalism?
Dr. Patel: He never says... When he went to England...
Prabhupada: Then why he asked the Europeans to go out? "Quit India."
Dr. Patel: Because they were exploiting poor people. There was a question of uniformity of people. There was no question of...
Prabhupada: No, there cannot be uniformity. On the bodily concept of life there cannot be any uniformity. That is a... When uniformity comes? Samah sarvesu bhutesu. When? Brahma-bhutah. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. Then uniformity. You have no knowledge of Brahman. You are living like cats and dogs. How there can be uniformity? That is not possible. [break] Practically you see uniformity. Somebody is coming from Europe; somebody, American; somebody, African; somebody, Canada; somebody, Hindu; somebody, Muslim; somebody, Christian. How they are becoming uniform? Because on the Brahman platform. And if you remain in this bodily concept of life, there is no question of uniformity. Para... [break] ...nirmatsaranam. This uniformity means "I am envious of you; you are envious of me." This is our position. Bhagavata says that this... Bhagavata culture is meant for paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. So if you remain in the material platform, there is no question of nirmatsara. Para utkarsa asahanam. This is called matsarata. The whole basic principle... Unless you come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of uniformity, peace, prosperity, nothing. Therefore our movement is "Change consciousness. Come to the spiritual platform, Krsna conscious. Then everything will be all right." Otherwise not possible. What is that, mam aprapyaiva mudha janmani janmani [Bg. 16.20]?
Dr. Patel: Aprapyaiva mam eva.
Prabhupada: One who is not Krsna conscious, birth after birth he will be pushed into the atheist family, that's all. Mudha janmani janmani asuresu [Bg. 16.20]. What is that verse?
Dr. Patel: Mam aprapya adhamam...
Prabhupada: Adhamamam gatim. So their result is they'll go down and down. That's all.
Dr. Patel: Then how he comes up?
Prabhupada: By Krsna consciousness.
Dr. Patel: Tri-gunasya.
Prabhupada: That is
mam cavyabhicarini
bhakti-yogena yah sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]
If you engage him in devotional service, immediately he is transferred to the spiritual platform. That is wanted.
Dr. Patel: Kamah krodhas tada lobhas tasmad evam... Tri-vidham narakasya-dvaram.
Prabhupada: Ah! Yes. Yes. On the material platform, he... The human life is meant for spiritual culture. Athato brahma jijnasa. But they have rejected. They are simply busy. Athato deha-jijnasa. That's all. Dehatma-buddhi.
Dr. Patel: I have got little point on this, that after all, the spirituality within you, namely atma, cannot remain independently without this body, so you have got to look after the body.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. That is not the fact. If you are actually spiritually advanced, you don't care for it. Deha smrti nahi yar samsara bandhana kahan tanra. It is just like Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. He had no spiritual... er, material con... He was eating every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all. How he was living in Vrndavana? So when one is perfectly on the spiritual platform, there is no bodily necessities. That is the sign. Therefore our civilization is to decrease the bodily necessities, not to increase. Control. Control, from the brahmacari, control, control, control. Ultimately completely control. That is perfectional stage. Tyagena. What is that verse?
Dr. Patel: Isavasyam idam sarvam yat kincid jagatyam... [Iso mantra 1].
Prabhupada: No, tapasa brahmacaryena tyagena yamena va [SB 6.1.13]. This is wanted. Tapasa. Beginning. Tapasya means that controlling the senses. That is tapasya. And the tapasya begins...
Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) ...brahma.
Prabhupada: Yes. Tapasya means... Beginning is brahmacarya. Tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. So where is brahmacarya?
Dr. Patel: Brahman prati acarati asa brahmacari.(?) All the senses. Not only the upasthas, but all the ten senses, including your mind and the discriminating buddhi, all are directed toward serving feet of God, and then he does not... That is real brahmacari.
Prabhupada: That, yes. Devotee means brahmacari. Pure devotee means brahmacari. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. He has no other desire. That is brahmacari. [break] This building is meant for playing cards. Somebody knows?
Giriraja: Club. I don't think this one is. No, behind it.
Gopala Krsna: This looks like a residential apartment building.
Giriraja: Indira's daughter stays here. Indira? It belongs to her niece's family. So sometimes her niece was staying here, and she used to come to the temple every day. There's another which is a club.
Prabhupada: ...tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma idya-dhih, yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij janesu abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. South Africa... (Hindi) ...successful.
Dr. Patel: South Africa, majority of them are rooting Holland. Not many other.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, there are all kinds of Europeans.
Dr. Patel: No, but majority of them are Hollanders. That is why this, they were against the Britishers.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. So in South Africa we had very successful programs.
Dr. Patel: You are going to have a temple there?
Prabhupada: Yes, we have already there.
Dr. Patel: Did you go to East Africa also?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Nairobi.
Dr. Patel: Nkrumah(?) wants money from anybody who goes and sees him as if he's a god.
Prabhupada: But where we have got money?
Dr. Patel: That is what I say. And he has all his money in Switzerland, Swiss banks. This is how they ruling these poor people.
Gopala Krsna: ...one of the richest men in the world.
Devotee (2): Who?
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih sarva... [Bg. 3.27]. You are fully under the control of the material nature. You must submit.
Dr. Patel: Yam yam va... tyajanti deham. That is how, I mean, Bharat got mrga because he was continuously in his mind was there.
Prabhupada: No, there is no such education, that there are dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13] and there are 8,400,000 different forms of deha. Which one he is going to get? Nobody is serious about it. He thinks, "Things will go on like this. I am very free to do anything." That is going on. Mudha. Mudha, rascal. Duskrtino mudha. They will never hear the instruction of Bhagavad-gita. They will do whatever he likes and interpret in a different way. (Hindi) Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. He could take the instruction of Bhagavad-gita and make his life perfect, but because he is mudha and full of sinful activities he will not do that.
Dr. Patel: mayayapahrta-jnanam asurim bhavam asritah.
Prabhupada: Ah! Although he is very proud of his material knowledge, it has no value. Because he is dependent on the laws of material nature, what his knowledge will help him? Suppose a very big man of this material world, he commits some sin. Does it mean that because he has got big qualification he will be saved from the laws? No. He must suffer. So mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot avoid even these material laws, so how you can avoid the nature's law? Mama maya duratyaya. Very, very difficult, but still, they are thinking, "Oh, we are independent. We can do anything." Therefore mudhas.
Dr. Patel: Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam...
Prabhupada: Taranti te. Yes. So this is the position. Therefore our propaganda is that "You take Krsna and be Krsna conscious and then you'll be happy." This is our propaganda. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We have to simply repeat what Krsna has said. That's all. (aside:) Oh, Hare Krsna. (Hindi) This time I have requested all Nairobi important friends that "Now you take sannyasa and become guru. Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked everyone to become guru. amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You have come to Africa. Now become their guru and deliver them." "Now, how shall I do it?" Yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Simply speak. Don't become very big upstart. Simply speak what Krsna has done. That's all. You become guru." (Hindi) "Oh, Krsna has said this. The meaning of this is this," as Krsna left the meaning to be declared or understood by some fools and rascals. This is going on.
Dr. Patel: Sir, what is this
yatha pravrttir bhutanam
yena sarvam idam tatam
sva-karmana tam abhyarcya
siddhim vindati manavah
[Bg. 18.46]
Prabhupada: That is Krsna consciousness.
Dr. Patel: Sva-karmana?
Prabhupada: Yes. You are doctor. You can serve Krsna.
Dr. Patel: Sve sve karmany abhiratah. According to your, I mean, sva-dharma.
Prabhupada: This is perfection of life, that...
atah pumbhir dvija-srestha
varnasrama-vibhagasah
svanusthitasya dharmasya
samsiddhir hari-tosanam
[SB 1.2.13]
You may do whatever occupational duty you are... But you have to satisfy Krsna. Then your everything is perfect. And if you satisfy your senses, then you are going to hell. This is the position. Therefore it is... Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. Even that karma is abominable, sa-dosam api na tyajet [Bg. 18.48]. "You go on with your work. Even there is some fault, it doesn't matter, but you satisfy Krsna. Then it is perfect." Just like Arjuna did. The fighting is not good business, but he satisfied Krsna. Therefore by fighting, he became a great devotee-sva-karmana. He did not leave his position as a ksatriya, as a grhastha, but he... Karisye vacanam tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Yes. In spite of my not being inclined to fight, because You are asking, I'll do it." This is Krsna consciousness. (Hindi) [break] You remain in your place, but you have your ears to hear Krsna. Then you'll be perfect. What is the difficulty? You remain as a doctor. You remain as a pleader. You remain whatever you like. It doesn't matter. But engage your aural reception to the words of Krsna. Then you become perfect. What is the difficulty? Simply sit down and hear what Krsna says, Bhagavad-gita. That's all. And if you say that "I simply hear," and if you do not act, no, you'll act because as you go on hearing, your heart will be purified. Then you will be inclined to hear..., er, act.
Indian man (3): I was going to ask this question, but... (laughing)
Prabhupada: Yes. srnvatam sva-katha krsnah punya sravana... Because by hearing Krsna, you'll be purified. Punya-sravana. Simply by hearing, you'll be pious. And as soon as you become pious, then you can understand Krsna. Yesam tv anta-gatam papam jananam punya... [Bg. 7.28]. But nobody will come here. They'll go to the restaurant, club, the playing cards. Nobody will come. We are opening so many centers that the rascals may come and hear and become pious. That will also not do. Caitanya Mahaprabhu regretted that. Etadrsi tava krpa bhagavan mamapi durdaivam idrsam ihajani nanu... "You have done so much favor to us, but I am so unfortunate that I have no desire to hear You." (Hindi) So much unfortunate. [break] That I have already explained, that akusam adhikaro. (laughter) Yes. Caitanya... One of the disciples of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Prabodhananda Sarasvati, he has taught us,
dante nidhaya trnakam padayor nipatya
kaku-satam krtva caham bravimi
he sadhavah sakalam eva nihaya durad
caitanya-candra-carane kurutanuragam
This is our process. What is that? Now, the Indian system of becoming humble is to take a straw in the mouth. (Hindi) Dante nidhaya trnakam: "So I am taken a grass in my mouth," and padayor nipatya: "I am falling down your lotus feet," and krtva ca kaku-satam: "And flattering you hundred times. I am submitting you." So any man will agree, "All right, say." So as soon as you give me the chance, then I say. What I say? He sadhavah: "You are a very great personality, sadhu." "Then? What do you want?" Now, sakalam eva: "Whatever nonsense you have learned, please forget." (laughter) "Whatever nonsense rascaldom you have learned, please forget." "Then what shall I do?" Kuru caitanya-candra-carane anuragam. This is our preaching. First of all we shall...
Dr. Patel: Don't forget architecture. I tell him, don't forget architecture, the important just now. (laughing) Forget other thing.
Prabhupada: Hm. This is the process. First of all flatter him. When he agrees, "Please tell me..."
Dr. Patel: How he became this.
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughter) Ask submissively, that "Forget all rascaldom, whatever you have learned, because you do not know what is knowledge. You have simply learned all rascaldom. So please forget it." This is our preaching.
Dr. Patel: Tell me that knowledge by which I know everything, according to that..., that boy? In Upanisad?
Prabhupada: So that is, Krsna is speaking. You know everything. By hearing Krsna, you know everything. But we'll not do that. We shall stick to that rascaldom, what you have learned. Krsna says mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam... [Bg. 18.66]. (Hindi) [break]
Dr. Patel: ...man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65].
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu was eulogized by Rupa Gosvami, namo maha-vadanyaya krsna-prema-pradaya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. (aside:) Hare Krsna. "You are, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, You are the most munificent because You are giving krsna-prema, which is very, very difficult." (aside:) Jaya. [break] ...not because he... In the beginning I said they will not. (laughter) (Hindi) [break] ...rise early. (Hindi) [break]
Dr. Patel: You go to bed at two-thirty.
Prabhupada: No.
Indian (4): No. Two-thirty. Gets up two o'clock.
Dr. Patel: I go to bed at nine o'clock.
Brahmananda: One.
Dr. Patel: I go to bed at nine o'clock, so I get up at three o'clock. So let us do like that. Both of us go to bed at nine o'clock, take a bath... (laughs)
Prabhupada: No, I go at ten o'clock and get up by two. (Hindi) [break]
Dr. Patel: ...vacanam tava.
Prabhupada: Yes. Na ca tasmad manusyesu kascid me priya-krttamah. (Hindi) If we want to be recognized by Krsna, this is the simple process: go and flatter persons, "Please hear some words from Bhagavata," that's all. And actually we are doing that. We are not learned, very scholarly.
Dr. Patel: Sir, I read your commentary on Bhagavad-gita and Ramanujacarya's. They are absolutely parallel.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I think you have taken out of it... (laughter)
Prabhupada: How can I...
Dr. Patel: I am just joking.
Prabhupada: No, no. Our process is to take from the acaryas. We are not manufacturing. We are not so fools and rascals that we have to manufacture. We have to take the remnants of foodstuff given by the acarya and explain in the modern way so that people may... That is our business.
Dr. Patel: Completely parallel.
Prabhupada: Yes. Why should I... If it is parallel, then it is my success.
Brahmananda: Yes. It's very complimentary.
Dr. Patel: His Sanskrit is very wonderful. Acarya...
Prabhupada: If it is parallel, that is my success. And if it is not parallel, then it is useless. But they want to give something of his own foolish ideas. That has become nowadays, scholars. If you give some foolish idea -- "Oh, he is a great philosopher." That's it. And our process is evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo [Bg. 4.2]. We have to receive from the a... acaryopasanam. That is the way. And this Subodhini-tika, Ballabhacarya, as soon as he says, "I have done something better than Sridhara Svami," immediately Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected him: "Oh, you have done better than Sridhara Svami?"
Dr. Patel: Sridhara Svami has made it more or less...
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, you cannot reject. You cannot say that "I have done better than Sridhara Svami." If you simply following the footprints of Sridhara Svami, that is vaisakti(?), not that "I have done better than him."
Dr. Patel: All Vaisnava Acaryas are more or less parallel. There's a little difference here and there. It is not much...
Prabhupada: No, there is no difference. Everything. It is, rather, more...
Dr. Patel: In philosophy there is no difference, sir. But in...
Prabhupada: In presentation, clarify. Yes. That is our business. Just like what I am doing. I am following the Acaryas, but I am presenting, writing in such a way the modern man can understand. This is our point.
Dr. Patel: Modern man. Modernizing? (laughs)
Prabhupada: Yes. You know him, this boy? He's a great-grandson of Henry Ford. He has contributed to our society not less than two crores of rupees.
Dr. Patel: He has got money.
Prabhupada: Yes. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: And Chapkhanna(?) cannot be very not good. Not very good. Your printing is wonderful. From where... Where is that place? From Japan?
Prabhupada: America and Japan. We want wonderful books.
Dr. Patel: Very good.
Indian (5): I saw that printing by (indistinct). Nobody has printed such books. And also the language
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) language (Hindi), Sanskrit into English?
Prabhupada: (Hindi) mayaya... They are very much puffed up of being educated. But Krsna says mayayapahrta-jnana.
Dr. Patel: Vedas also depict about maya. That is why naistraigunyo bhavarjuna. No? Am I right?
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: They are the old sticks?
Prabhupada: Take it away and leave here.
Dr. Patel: No, I don't want it. (laughter) This has come from South Africa?
Prabhupada: No, no. It was presented by Visalini in Vrndavana. One American girl student, she has given it. [break]
Dr. Patel: Man-mana bhava. Perpetually. It is just like an insect climbing a wall. Immediately it comes down on the ground. It takes about twenty-four hours.
Prabhupada: No, no. If you practice... Just like these boys. They are chanting "Hare Krsna," so their mind is fixed up in Krsna. Man-mana. And they can do it without any being afraid by public criticism because they are mad-bhakta. They have become bhakta. Others, they will afraid: "I am such and such person. If I chant then what the others will speak?" (laughter) But a devotee is not afraid of anyone.
Indian (6): No, sir, but body is the temple of God. Vaisnavas pray that...
Prabhupada: That everyone... Dog is also worshiping the body.
Indian (6): (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: We are just now worshiping body, sir. We are worshiping body, and we don't want to worship soul now. That is what he says.
Indian (6): Body is nothing. The soul is there. That is understood.
Prabhupada: So if you reject soul and simply worship...
Indian (6): No, soul is there.
Dr. Patel: He wants to say (Hindi) is the point. (Hindi) [break]
Prabhupada: (Hindi) So if you take spiritually advanced, the bodily care is already taken.
Dr. Patel: That is what I have learned. That you were saying before but then I got a postscript from one other devotee.
Prabhupada: No, no. One thing, example, that dead body. Now, when the spirit is gone, now can you take care of the dead body?
Dr. Patel: It rots.
Prabhupada: So long the spirit is there, it is all right. And as soon as the spirit is gone, it is simply lump of matter.
6: No, if you misuse it...
Prabhupada: No, no. First... This is practical. You see the importance of the body is so long, as long as there is the spirit. So if you take spiritual care, the bodily care is automatically done. Just like we are. Are we not taking bodily care? But our main business is spiritual care.
Dr. Patel: But people are starving for twenty-four, I mean forty-eight days. You cannot starve for two days because you have got weakness of the mind. Mind and soul should be one and the body... [break]
Prabhupada: ...transcend the bodily and mental platform. Then you come to the spiritual platform.
indriyani parany ahur
indriyebhyah param manah
manasas tu para buddhir
buddhes tu yah paratas tu sah
[Bg. 3.42]
You have to come to that platform.
Dr. Patel: Evam buddhva param buddhva...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Saheb, Thakur Saheb, what he says is right. No, but because we are, we are apratijnana so we don't understand it quickly. [break]
Prabhupada: ...Kali-yuga, always chant Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama..., and everything will be clear. Last night Brahmananda said... [break] ...that "We are sticking to you because we know we have got something from you." Otherwise they are all rich man's sons. They are aristocratic family and industry. Why? I am not bribing them. Now this Mr. Ford has come to me. I have not bribed. He is not to be bribed. [break]
Dr. Patel: Up to three o'clock we are taking rest.
Prabhupada: No.
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupada: Up to four.
Dr. Patel: If I come at four-thirty, you are there.
Prabhupada: No. At that time, I shall not be able to... You can come at five. Because after waking up I prepare. Then at five I begin. Let us meet. And Krsna says, tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. So one has to become dhira. If one remains adhira, then he'll never be able to understand the distinction between body and soul.
Dr. Patel: Dhira means buddhi.
Prabhupada: Dhira means sober. Sober, yes. Just like high-court judge. He judges everything very... [break] ...then he gives his judgment.
Indian man (7): Attention.
Prabhupada: Full attention. And attention means with good intelligence, (dog barking) not foolishly. (Hindi) That "You are not body. Why you are fighting?" Will they hear? (Hindi) That "My dear dog, you are not this body. Why you are fighting?" He will never understand. Similarly, if a man does not understand, he is no better than the dog.
Dr. Patel: suni caiva sva-pakesu panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18].
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore we like everyone. We do not reject anyone. Dog cannot understand the philosophy. Therefore we call him and give some prasadam. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: So if we take also prasadam, don't... (laughing)
Prabhupada: Therefore prasada distribution is one of our program.
Dr. Patel: For?
Prabhupada: For everyone.
Dr. Patel: (laughs) Sama-darsinah.
Prabhupada: Yes. We are not neglectful. "Because he is dog, therefore he should be neglected." No. He should be given.
Indian (8): After all, he is God's creation.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is sama-darsinah. Sama-darsinah means that every living being is part and parcel of God. So he is suffering for want of God consciousness, so let us teach something as far as possible. This is our mission. [break] ...dhiras tatra na muhyati. Therefore the human being's first business is how to become dhira.
Dr. Patel: Dhira does not exactly mean "sober," but something more than sober.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is only one part of it.
Dr. Patel: So many Sanskrit words cannot have translation into English.
Prabhupada: Dhira means one who is not disturbed by this bodily concept of life. He is dhira because he knows that "I am not this body," even there is some trouble in respect of body. So Krsna advised that titiksasva bharata.
Dr. Patel: Titiksasva.
Prabhupada: "Even there is some disturbance, tolerate it. Don't be disturbed."
Dr. Patel: Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya, sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14].
Prabhupada: Yes. So long the body is there, in connection with the skin disease, we shall be suffering in so many ways. Just like there was accident. So it does not mean that because there was accident that...
Dr. Patel: But somehow or other, you have very much improved after accident, your health.
Prabhupada: No, I was eating nicely in Africa. The climate is nice.
Indian (6): Was it?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Dr. Patel: South Africa is just like, just like, as cold as Europe.
Prabhupada: Not very cold, but it is cold. Durban. Durban.
Dr. Patel: Durban, there is a huge population of Indians, and all Gujaratis.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Somehow or other, Bengalis and Gujaratis are akin. Why they have one living in West and other in East? What must be the cause of oneness even in thought and action, in every way.
Prabhupada: Oneness means Krsna. (Hindi) (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: In temperament also. (laughs)
Prabhupada: That is also external. Real unity is on Krsna consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedanta begins, athato brahma jijnasa: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharah. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.
Dr. Patel: They have been very badly segregated. They can't have any business, I hear.
Prabhupada: They are put into difficulty.
Dr. Patel: They are following Hitler's method of superiority of... They don't understand that Indians are as superior as they are, rather more, ethically.
Prabhupada: Everyone thinks that he is superior than everyone.
Dr. Patel: No, no. The Aryan race is...
Prabhupada: That is the disease, material disease. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has... Trnad api sunicena: "You just become..." (end)
Prabhupada: Yes. So they are keeping them cats and dogs by education, culture, and they want to be happy. How it is possible? First of all let them come to the standard of human being. Then there is question of peace and happiness. They are kept as cats and dogs, and how there can be peace? You cannot make any peace in the dog society. That is not possible. Hare Krsna. So that consciousness can come only when one is spiritually educated. If he is simply engaged for satisfying the senses, material, then he remains a cat and dog. You cannot expect any peace.
Dr. Patel: I think the greatest damage done to this civilization of Aryans of India was by MacCauley, who introduced the British system of education.
Prabhupada: But why you accepted that? (laughter) Why you accepted? Then why don't you accept? You should have refused.
Dr. Patel: Well, we were not there to refuse. We came afterwards. Our forefathers gave us...
Prabhupada: No, you can... Just like they are reforming. Their forefathers were drunkards, woman-hunters, (laughter) and they are reformed, the great-grandchildren. And we old men, we cannot do that.
Dr. Patel: I talk of MacCauley...
Prabhupada: MacCauley may mislead you. Why you should believe?
Dr. Patel: He misled our forefathers.
Prabhupada: No, why you should be misled?
Dr. Patel: Now we are going to lead them. Are you not leading them?
Prabhupada: Yes. Your forefathers might have been misled, but why you will commit the same mistake again?
Dr. Patel: Now we have improved upon the mistake and we are leading them, and we will lead them.
Prabhupada: No, that is not the fact. These boys, European, American boys, they were misled from the very beginning of their life, but how they are improving in spiritual consciousness? The thing is we are not prepared to take up our own culture. That is...
Dr. Patel: That's right, sir. God must have some, something to fulfill.
Prabhupada: Take for example our big leader, Mahatma Gandhi. He was supposed to be very good scholar in Bhagavad-gita. Did he ever preach that "You are not this body?"
Dr. Patel: I come from the ashram. Yes, he did.
Prabhupada: Then where is the question of nationalism?
Dr. Patel: He never says... When he went to England...
Prabhupada: Then why he asked the Europeans to go out? "Quit India."
Dr. Patel: Because they were exploiting poor people. There was a question of uniformity of people. There was no question of...
Prabhupada: No, there cannot be uniformity. On the bodily concept of life there cannot be any uniformity. That is a... When uniformity comes? Samah sarvesu bhutesu. When? Brahma-bhutah. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. Then uniformity. You have no knowledge of Brahman. You are living like cats and dogs. How there can be uniformity? That is not possible. [break] Practically you see uniformity. Somebody is coming from Europe; somebody, American; somebody, African; somebody, Canada; somebody, Hindu; somebody, Muslim; somebody, Christian. How they are becoming uniform? Because on the Brahman platform. And if you remain in this bodily concept of life, there is no question of uniformity. Para... [break] ...nirmatsaranam. This uniformity means "I am envious of you; you are envious of me." This is our position. Bhagavata says that this... Bhagavata culture is meant for paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. So if you remain in the material platform, there is no question of nirmatsara. Para utkarsa asahanam. This is called matsarata. The whole basic principle... Unless you come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of uniformity, peace, prosperity, nothing. Therefore our movement is "Change consciousness. Come to the spiritual platform, Krsna conscious. Then everything will be all right." Otherwise not possible. What is that, mam aprapyaiva mudha janmani janmani [Bg. 16.20]?
Dr. Patel: Aprapyaiva mam eva.
Prabhupada: One who is not Krsna conscious, birth after birth he will be pushed into the atheist family, that's all. Mudha janmani janmani asuresu [Bg. 16.20]. What is that verse?
Dr. Patel: Mam aprapya adhamam...
Prabhupada: Adhamamam gatim. So their result is they'll go down and down. That's all.
Dr. Patel: Then how he comes up?
Prabhupada: By Krsna consciousness.
Dr. Patel: Tri-gunasya.
Prabhupada: That is
mam cavyabhicarini
bhakti-yogena yah sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]
If you engage him in devotional service, immediately he is transferred to the spiritual platform. That is wanted.
Dr. Patel: Kamah krodhas tada lobhas tasmad evam... Tri-vidham narakasya-dvaram.
Prabhupada: Ah! Yes. Yes. On the material platform, he... The human life is meant for spiritual culture. Athato brahma jijnasa. But they have rejected. They are simply busy. Athato deha-jijnasa. That's all. Dehatma-buddhi.
Dr. Patel: I have got little point on this, that after all, the spirituality within you, namely atma, cannot remain independently without this body, so you have got to look after the body.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. That is not the fact. If you are actually spiritually advanced, you don't care for it. Deha smrti nahi yar samsara bandhana kahan tanra. It is just like Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. He had no spiritual... er, material con... He was eating every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all. How he was living in Vrndavana? So when one is perfectly on the spiritual platform, there is no bodily necessities. That is the sign. Therefore our civilization is to decrease the bodily necessities, not to increase. Control. Control, from the brahmacari, control, control, control. Ultimately completely control. That is perfectional stage. Tyagena. What is that verse?
Dr. Patel: Isavasyam idam sarvam yat kincid jagatyam... [Iso mantra 1].
Prabhupada: No, tapasa brahmacaryena tyagena yamena va [SB 6.1.13]. This is wanted. Tapasa. Beginning. Tapasya means that controlling the senses. That is tapasya. And the tapasya begins...
Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) ...brahma.
Prabhupada: Yes. Tapasya means... Beginning is brahmacarya. Tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. So where is brahmacarya?
Dr. Patel: Brahman prati acarati asa brahmacari.(?) All the senses. Not only the upasthas, but all the ten senses, including your mind and the discriminating buddhi, all are directed toward serving feet of God, and then he does not... That is real brahmacari.
Prabhupada: That, yes. Devotee means brahmacari. Pure devotee means brahmacari. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. He has no other desire. That is brahmacari. [break] This building is meant for playing cards. Somebody knows?
Giriraja: Club. I don't think this one is. No, behind it.
Gopala Krsna: This looks like a residential apartment building.
Giriraja: Indira's daughter stays here. Indira? It belongs to her niece's family. So sometimes her niece was staying here, and she used to come to the temple every day. There's another which is a club.
Prabhupada: ...tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma idya-dhih, yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij janesu abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. South Africa... (Hindi) ...successful.
Dr. Patel: South Africa, majority of them are rooting Holland. Not many other.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, there are all kinds of Europeans.
Dr. Patel: No, but majority of them are Hollanders. That is why this, they were against the Britishers.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. So in South Africa we had very successful programs.
Dr. Patel: You are going to have a temple there?
Prabhupada: Yes, we have already there.
Dr. Patel: Did you go to East Africa also?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Nairobi.
Dr. Patel: Nkrumah(?) wants money from anybody who goes and sees him as if he's a god.
Prabhupada: But where we have got money?
Dr. Patel: That is what I say. And he has all his money in Switzerland, Swiss banks. This is how they ruling these poor people.
Gopala Krsna: ...one of the richest men in the world.
Devotee (2): Who?
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih sarva... [Bg. 3.27]. You are fully under the control of the material nature. You must submit.
Dr. Patel: Yam yam va... tyajanti deham. That is how, I mean, Bharat got mrga because he was continuously in his mind was there.
Prabhupada: No, there is no such education, that there are dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13] and there are 8,400,000 different forms of deha. Which one he is going to get? Nobody is serious about it. He thinks, "Things will go on like this. I am very free to do anything." That is going on. Mudha. Mudha, rascal. Duskrtino mudha. They will never hear the instruction of Bhagavad-gita. They will do whatever he likes and interpret in a different way. (Hindi) Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. He could take the instruction of Bhagavad-gita and make his life perfect, but because he is mudha and full of sinful activities he will not do that.
Dr. Patel: mayayapahrta-jnanam asurim bhavam asritah.
Prabhupada: Ah! Although he is very proud of his material knowledge, it has no value. Because he is dependent on the laws of material nature, what his knowledge will help him? Suppose a very big man of this material world, he commits some sin. Does it mean that because he has got big qualification he will be saved from the laws? No. He must suffer. So mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot avoid even these material laws, so how you can avoid the nature's law? Mama maya duratyaya. Very, very difficult, but still, they are thinking, "Oh, we are independent. We can do anything." Therefore mudhas.
Dr. Patel: Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam...
Prabhupada: Taranti te. Yes. So this is the position. Therefore our propaganda is that "You take Krsna and be Krsna conscious and then you'll be happy." This is our propaganda. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We have to simply repeat what Krsna has said. That's all. (aside:) Oh, Hare Krsna. (Hindi) This time I have requested all Nairobi important friends that "Now you take sannyasa and become guru. Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked everyone to become guru. amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You have come to Africa. Now become their guru and deliver them." "Now, how shall I do it?" Yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Simply speak. Don't become very big upstart. Simply speak what Krsna has done. That's all. You become guru." (Hindi) "Oh, Krsna has said this. The meaning of this is this," as Krsna left the meaning to be declared or understood by some fools and rascals. This is going on.
Dr. Patel: Sir, what is this
yatha pravrttir bhutanam
yena sarvam idam tatam
sva-karmana tam abhyarcya
siddhim vindati manavah
[Bg. 18.46]
Prabhupada: That is Krsna consciousness.
Dr. Patel: Sva-karmana?
Prabhupada: Yes. You are doctor. You can serve Krsna.
Dr. Patel: Sve sve karmany abhiratah. According to your, I mean, sva-dharma.
Prabhupada: This is perfection of life, that...
atah pumbhir dvija-srestha
varnasrama-vibhagasah
svanusthitasya dharmasya
samsiddhir hari-tosanam
[SB 1.2.13]
You may do whatever occupational duty you are... But you have to satisfy Krsna. Then your everything is perfect. And if you satisfy your senses, then you are going to hell. This is the position. Therefore it is... Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. Even that karma is abominable, sa-dosam api na tyajet [Bg. 18.48]. "You go on with your work. Even there is some fault, it doesn't matter, but you satisfy Krsna. Then it is perfect." Just like Arjuna did. The fighting is not good business, but he satisfied Krsna. Therefore by fighting, he became a great devotee-sva-karmana. He did not leave his position as a ksatriya, as a grhastha, but he... Karisye vacanam tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Yes. In spite of my not being inclined to fight, because You are asking, I'll do it." This is Krsna consciousness. (Hindi) [break] You remain in your place, but you have your ears to hear Krsna. Then you'll be perfect. What is the difficulty? You remain as a doctor. You remain as a pleader. You remain whatever you like. It doesn't matter. But engage your aural reception to the words of Krsna. Then you become perfect. What is the difficulty? Simply sit down and hear what Krsna says, Bhagavad-gita. That's all. And if you say that "I simply hear," and if you do not act, no, you'll act because as you go on hearing, your heart will be purified. Then you will be inclined to hear..., er, act.
Indian man (3): I was going to ask this question, but... (laughing)
Prabhupada: Yes. srnvatam sva-katha krsnah punya sravana... Because by hearing Krsna, you'll be purified. Punya-sravana. Simply by hearing, you'll be pious. And as soon as you become pious, then you can understand Krsna. Yesam tv anta-gatam papam jananam punya... [Bg. 7.28]. But nobody will come here. They'll go to the restaurant, club, the playing cards. Nobody will come. We are opening so many centers that the rascals may come and hear and become pious. That will also not do. Caitanya Mahaprabhu regretted that. Etadrsi tava krpa bhagavan mamapi durdaivam idrsam ihajani nanu... "You have done so much favor to us, but I am so unfortunate that I have no desire to hear You." (Hindi) So much unfortunate. [break] That I have already explained, that akusam adhikaro. (laughter) Yes. Caitanya... One of the disciples of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Prabodhananda Sarasvati, he has taught us,
dante nidhaya trnakam padayor nipatya
kaku-satam krtva caham bravimi
he sadhavah sakalam eva nihaya durad
caitanya-candra-carane kurutanuragam
This is our process. What is that? Now, the Indian system of becoming humble is to take a straw in the mouth. (Hindi) Dante nidhaya trnakam: "So I am taken a grass in my mouth," and padayor nipatya: "I am falling down your lotus feet," and krtva ca kaku-satam: "And flattering you hundred times. I am submitting you." So any man will agree, "All right, say." So as soon as you give me the chance, then I say. What I say? He sadhavah: "You are a very great personality, sadhu." "Then? What do you want?" Now, sakalam eva: "Whatever nonsense you have learned, please forget." (laughter) "Whatever nonsense rascaldom you have learned, please forget." "Then what shall I do?" Kuru caitanya-candra-carane anuragam. This is our preaching. First of all we shall...
Dr. Patel: Don't forget architecture. I tell him, don't forget architecture, the important just now. (laughing) Forget other thing.
Prabhupada: Hm. This is the process. First of all flatter him. When he agrees, "Please tell me..."
Dr. Patel: How he became this.
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughter) Ask submissively, that "Forget all rascaldom, whatever you have learned, because you do not know what is knowledge. You have simply learned all rascaldom. So please forget it." This is our preaching.
Dr. Patel: Tell me that knowledge by which I know everything, according to that..., that boy? In Upanisad?
Prabhupada: So that is, Krsna is speaking. You know everything. By hearing Krsna, you know everything. But we'll not do that. We shall stick to that rascaldom, what you have learned. Krsna says mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam... [Bg. 18.66]. (Hindi) [break]
Dr. Patel: ...man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65].
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu was eulogized by Rupa Gosvami, namo maha-vadanyaya krsna-prema-pradaya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. (aside:) Hare Krsna. "You are, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, You are the most munificent because You are giving krsna-prema, which is very, very difficult." (aside:) Jaya. [break] ...not because he... In the beginning I said they will not. (laughter) (Hindi) [break] ...rise early. (Hindi) [break]
Dr. Patel: You go to bed at two-thirty.
Prabhupada: No.
Indian (4): No. Two-thirty. Gets up two o'clock.
Dr. Patel: I go to bed at nine o'clock.
Brahmananda: One.
Dr. Patel: I go to bed at nine o'clock, so I get up at three o'clock. So let us do like that. Both of us go to bed at nine o'clock, take a bath... (laughs)
Prabhupada: No, I go at ten o'clock and get up by two. (Hindi) [break]
Dr. Patel: ...vacanam tava.
Prabhupada: Yes. Na ca tasmad manusyesu kascid me priya-krttamah. (Hindi) If we want to be recognized by Krsna, this is the simple process: go and flatter persons, "Please hear some words from Bhagavata," that's all. And actually we are doing that. We are not learned, very scholarly.
Dr. Patel: Sir, I read your commentary on Bhagavad-gita and Ramanujacarya's. They are absolutely parallel.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I think you have taken out of it... (laughter)
Prabhupada: How can I...
Dr. Patel: I am just joking.
Prabhupada: No, no. Our process is to take from the acaryas. We are not manufacturing. We are not so fools and rascals that we have to manufacture. We have to take the remnants of foodstuff given by the acarya and explain in the modern way so that people may... That is our business.
Dr. Patel: Completely parallel.
Prabhupada: Yes. Why should I... If it is parallel, then it is my success.
Brahmananda: Yes. It's very complimentary.
Dr. Patel: His Sanskrit is very wonderful. Acarya...
Prabhupada: If it is parallel, that is my success. And if it is not parallel, then it is useless. But they want to give something of his own foolish ideas. That has become nowadays, scholars. If you give some foolish idea -- "Oh, he is a great philosopher." That's it. And our process is evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo [Bg. 4.2]. We have to receive from the a... acaryopasanam. That is the way. And this Subodhini-tika, Ballabhacarya, as soon as he says, "I have done something better than Sridhara Svami," immediately Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected him: "Oh, you have done better than Sridhara Svami?"
Dr. Patel: Sridhara Svami has made it more or less...
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, you cannot reject. You cannot say that "I have done better than Sridhara Svami." If you simply following the footprints of Sridhara Svami, that is vaisakti(?), not that "I have done better than him."
Dr. Patel: All Vaisnava Acaryas are more or less parallel. There's a little difference here and there. It is not much...
Prabhupada: No, there is no difference. Everything. It is, rather, more...
Dr. Patel: In philosophy there is no difference, sir. But in...
Prabhupada: In presentation, clarify. Yes. That is our business. Just like what I am doing. I am following the Acaryas, but I am presenting, writing in such a way the modern man can understand. This is our point.
Dr. Patel: Modern man. Modernizing? (laughs)
Prabhupada: Yes. You know him, this boy? He's a great-grandson of Henry Ford. He has contributed to our society not less than two crores of rupees.
Dr. Patel: He has got money.
Prabhupada: Yes. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: And Chapkhanna(?) cannot be very not good. Not very good. Your printing is wonderful. From where... Where is that place? From Japan?
Prabhupada: America and Japan. We want wonderful books.
Dr. Patel: Very good.
Indian (5): I saw that printing by (indistinct). Nobody has printed such books. And also the language
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) language (Hindi), Sanskrit into English?
Prabhupada: (Hindi) mayaya... They are very much puffed up of being educated. But Krsna says mayayapahrta-jnana.
Dr. Patel: Vedas also depict about maya. That is why naistraigunyo bhavarjuna. No? Am I right?
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: They are the old sticks?
Prabhupada: Take it away and leave here.
Dr. Patel: No, I don't want it. (laughter) This has come from South Africa?
Prabhupada: No, no. It was presented by Visalini in Vrndavana. One American girl student, she has given it. [break]
Dr. Patel: Man-mana bhava. Perpetually. It is just like an insect climbing a wall. Immediately it comes down on the ground. It takes about twenty-four hours.
Prabhupada: No, no. If you practice... Just like these boys. They are chanting "Hare Krsna," so their mind is fixed up in Krsna. Man-mana. And they can do it without any being afraid by public criticism because they are mad-bhakta. They have become bhakta. Others, they will afraid: "I am such and such person. If I chant then what the others will speak?" (laughter) But a devotee is not afraid of anyone.
Indian (6): No, sir, but body is the temple of God. Vaisnavas pray that...
Prabhupada: That everyone... Dog is also worshiping the body.
Indian (6): (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: We are just now worshiping body, sir. We are worshiping body, and we don't want to worship soul now. That is what he says.
Indian (6): Body is nothing. The soul is there. That is understood.
Prabhupada: So if you reject soul and simply worship...
Indian (6): No, soul is there.
Dr. Patel: He wants to say (Hindi) is the point. (Hindi) [break]
Prabhupada: (Hindi) So if you take spiritually advanced, the bodily care is already taken.
Dr. Patel: That is what I have learned. That you were saying before but then I got a postscript from one other devotee.
Prabhupada: No, no. One thing, example, that dead body. Now, when the spirit is gone, now can you take care of the dead body?
Dr. Patel: It rots.
Prabhupada: So long the spirit is there, it is all right. And as soon as the spirit is gone, it is simply lump of matter.
6: No, if you misuse it...
Prabhupada: No, no. First... This is practical. You see the importance of the body is so long, as long as there is the spirit. So if you take spiritual care, the bodily care is automatically done. Just like we are. Are we not taking bodily care? But our main business is spiritual care.
Dr. Patel: But people are starving for twenty-four, I mean forty-eight days. You cannot starve for two days because you have got weakness of the mind. Mind and soul should be one and the body... [break]
Prabhupada: ...transcend the bodily and mental platform. Then you come to the spiritual platform.
indriyani parany ahur
indriyebhyah param manah
manasas tu para buddhir
buddhes tu yah paratas tu sah
[Bg. 3.42]
You have to come to that platform.
Dr. Patel: Evam buddhva param buddhva...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Saheb, Thakur Saheb, what he says is right. No, but because we are, we are apratijnana so we don't understand it quickly. [break]
Prabhupada: ...Kali-yuga, always chant Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama..., and everything will be clear. Last night Brahmananda said... [break] ...that "We are sticking to you because we know we have got something from you." Otherwise they are all rich man's sons. They are aristocratic family and industry. Why? I am not bribing them. Now this Mr. Ford has come to me. I have not bribed. He is not to be bribed. [break]
Dr. Patel: Up to three o'clock we are taking rest.
Prabhupada: No.
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupada: Up to four.
Dr. Patel: If I come at four-thirty, you are there.
Prabhupada: No. At that time, I shall not be able to... You can come at five. Because after waking up I prepare. Then at five I begin. Let us meet. And Krsna says, tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. So one has to become dhira. If one remains adhira, then he'll never be able to understand the distinction between body and soul.
Dr. Patel: Dhira means buddhi.
Prabhupada: Dhira means sober. Sober, yes. Just like high-court judge. He judges everything very... [break] ...then he gives his judgment.
Indian man (7): Attention.
Prabhupada: Full attention. And attention means with good intelligence, (dog barking) not foolishly. (Hindi) That "You are not body. Why you are fighting?" Will they hear? (Hindi) That "My dear dog, you are not this body. Why you are fighting?" He will never understand. Similarly, if a man does not understand, he is no better than the dog.
Dr. Patel: suni caiva sva-pakesu panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18].
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore we like everyone. We do not reject anyone. Dog cannot understand the philosophy. Therefore we call him and give some prasadam. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: So if we take also prasadam, don't... (laughing)
Prabhupada: Therefore prasada distribution is one of our program.
Dr. Patel: For?
Prabhupada: For everyone.
Dr. Patel: (laughs) Sama-darsinah.
Prabhupada: Yes. We are not neglectful. "Because he is dog, therefore he should be neglected." No. He should be given.
Indian (8): After all, he is God's creation.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is sama-darsinah. Sama-darsinah means that every living being is part and parcel of God. So he is suffering for want of God consciousness, so let us teach something as far as possible. This is our mission. [break] ...dhiras tatra na muhyati. Therefore the human being's first business is how to become dhira.
Dr. Patel: Dhira does not exactly mean "sober," but something more than sober.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is only one part of it.
Dr. Patel: So many Sanskrit words cannot have translation into English.
Prabhupada: Dhira means one who is not disturbed by this bodily concept of life. He is dhira because he knows that "I am not this body," even there is some trouble in respect of body. So Krsna advised that titiksasva bharata.
Dr. Patel: Titiksasva.
Prabhupada: "Even there is some disturbance, tolerate it. Don't be disturbed."
Dr. Patel: Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya, sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14].
Prabhupada: Yes. So long the body is there, in connection with the skin disease, we shall be suffering in so many ways. Just like there was accident. So it does not mean that because there was accident that...
Dr. Patel: But somehow or other, you have very much improved after accident, your health.
Prabhupada: No, I was eating nicely in Africa. The climate is nice.
Indian (6): Was it?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Dr. Patel: South Africa is just like, just like, as cold as Europe.
Prabhupada: Not very cold, but it is cold. Durban. Durban.
Dr. Patel: Durban, there is a huge population of Indians, and all Gujaratis.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Somehow or other, Bengalis and Gujaratis are akin. Why they have one living in West and other in East? What must be the cause of oneness even in thought and action, in every way.
Prabhupada: Oneness means Krsna. (Hindi) (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: In temperament also. (laughs)
Prabhupada: That is also external. Real unity is on Krsna consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedanta begins, athato brahma jijnasa: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharah. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.
Dr. Patel: They have been very badly segregated. They can't have any business, I hear.
Prabhupada: They are put into difficulty.
Dr. Patel: They are following Hitler's method of superiority of... They don't understand that Indians are as superior as they are, rather more, ethically.
Prabhupada: Everyone thinks that he is superior than everyone.
Dr. Patel: No, no. The Aryan race is...
Prabhupada: That is the disease, material disease. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has... Trnad api sunicena: "You just become..." (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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