Prabhupada: ...has done a great
mistake. I never expected... (noise) ...all of a sudden... [break] You see the
so-called swamis and yogis. They could not do anything, because they are
outsider. They are not within the jurisdiction of Krsna. One must remain within
the jurisdiction of Krsna. Then his spiritual life is assured. Otherwise,
paramour(?). [break] Similarly, everything, everyone belongs to Krsna's family,
but we have to see what he's doing for Krsna. Just like everyone is citizen of
the state. Why a man is given high position and big title? Why? Because he's
recognized.Sudama: Right.
Prabhupada: So one must give service. Simply to feel, "I belong to Krsna's family," and doing nothing for Krsna, that is not...
Sudama: That's no good.
Prabhupada: That's no good. That is not good. That means he'll... Very soon he'll again forget Krsna. He'll again forget Krsna.
Sudama: Actually, the other element is so powerful. These people here, because, even though they are part of Krsna's family, but because they have forgotten, then we become influenced by their forgetfulness.
Prabhupada: Yes. Forgetfulness means maya.
Sudama: Yes.
Prabhupada: Maya is nothing. It is a forgetfulness. That's all. It has no existence. Forgetfulness, it does not stand. But so long it is there, it is very troublesome.
Sudama: I've been asked a question by some devotees sometimes that they don't feel happy. So even if they are unhappy, mentally, should, they still should continue in Krsna consciousness. I tell them, even if one is unhappy...
Prabhupada: But you should show example. If you show example different way, how they will follow you?
Sudama: Yeah.
Prabhupada: Example is better than precept. Why you are living outside?
Sudama: Well, I...
Prabhupada: [break] ...last time I was so much deteriorated in health, I had to leave this place. That does not mean I'll leave the Society. I went to India and recuperated. Or came to London. That's all right. So health may be sometimes... But that does not mean we shall give up the Society. If my health is unsuitable here, I go... I have a hundred centers. And you'll not go out of this universe for your health recouping. You have to remain within the universe. Then why do you go out of the Society? [break] ...Sri Narottama dasa Thakura. We have to live with devotees. Why I left my family? Because they were not devotees. Therefore I come... Otherwise, in old age, I would have been comfortable. No. We should not live with the nondevotees, may be family men or anyone. Just like Maharaja Vibhisana. Because his brother was not devotee, he left him, left him. He came to Ramacandra. Vibhisana. You know that?
Sudama: Yes.
Hrdayananda: So Prabhupada, it says that a sannyasi should live alone. That means only with devotees.
Prabhupada: Who...! Where it is said sannyasi should live alone?
Hrdayananda: I mean, sometimes in your books.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hrdayananda: Sometimes in your books. So that means with devotees.
Prabhupada: In general, sannyasi may live alone. But sannyasi's duty is to preach.
Sudama: That I don't ever want to stop.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Sudama: I don't ever want to stop preaching.
Prabhupada: Yes. Well, preaching, you cannot manufacture preaching. You must do preaching according to the principles ordered by your spiritual master. You cannot manufacture your own way of preaching. That is required. There must be some leader. Under the leadership. Yasya prasadad bhagavat... Why it is said? Everywhere, in the office, there is some immediate boss. So you have to please him. That is service. Suppose in office, in a department there is office superintendent. And if you do in your own way, "Yes, I'm doing my business," and the office superintendent is not pleased, do you think that kind of service is nice? No. Similarly, we have got, everywhere we have got immediate boss. So we must work. That is systematic. If everyone manufactures, invents his own way of life, then there must be chaos.
Sudama: Yeah, that's true.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now we are world organization. There is spiritual side, and there is material side also. That is not material side. That is also spiritual side, means systematic management. Otherwise how it will be done? Just like Gaurasundara sold the house, and there is no trace of the money. What is this? He did not ask him, anyone. He sold the house, and where is the money, there is no trace. [break] Ah, Hare Krsna. What is that badge? Tennis?
Devotee: It's not a badge. It's the only sweater I...
Prabhupada: Oh, that's nice. Yesterday I received one letter from Rupanuga Maharaja. He's preaching very nice. Yes.
Hrdayananda: Rupanuga?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: There have been several people here in Los Angeles...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: ...that have wanted to meet you. A councilman, a councilman here in Los Angeles would like to meet you, a city councilman.
Prabhupada: Yes. Oh, yes. He's welcome.
Umapati: So, and, and um, also a Professor Scharfe at the UCLA, he's...
Prabhupada: Professor?
Umapati: Professor Scharfe. He's a Sanskrit scholar of the Vedic, Vedic...
Svarupa Damodara: Scharfer?
Umapati: Scharfe. Scharfe.
Svarupa Damodara: It's not Scharfer?
Devotee: Scharfe, spelled S-c-h-a-r-f-e.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, I met him.
Umapati: Yes. He would like very much to meet with you.
Prabhupada: All right. Make appointment. What, what is his purpose to meet me?
Umapati: Well, Professor Scharfe is interested in your writings, and I don't know the councilman's motives. He just sent word to me that he would like to meet with you.
Prabhupada: We welcome any respectable gentleman. We have to go this way?
Karandhara: Uh, yeah, Prabhupada, we can go this way, through here. [break]
Hrdayananda: The scientists will never give up.
Prabhupada: They are trying.
Hrdayananda: They are like Jarasandha. They come back every day on your walk.
Svarupa Damodara: Srila Prabhupada, we have any specific reference for acintya in the Vedic reference?
Prabhupada: Acintya, acintya, yes, acintya. Acintya potency, even you have got acintya potency. That I have already explained. Because we are part and parcel of Krsna, therefore there is pinch of acintya, inconceivable potency, in us also. Harer nama harer nama harer nama... [Cc. Adi 17.21].
Svarupa Damodara: Do we have any specific reference?
Prabhupada: Yes. Jiva Gosvami. Jiva Gosvami has stated that unless we accept acintya, inconceivable energy, there is no conception of God. There is no conception of God. If you bring God to your conception, he's not God.
Umapati: Acintya, acintya-bheda is a unique contribution of Vaisnavas to the concept of God.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Actually, that is the fact. We cannot explain what is God. We have to accept what is God from God.
Yasomatinandana: Avaroha.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Avaroha process?
Prabhupada: Yes, not ava... Yes, avaroha process. Yes, thank you. Here Krsna says, mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. We have to accept that. Mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7]. So "There is no more superior authority than Me." Harer nama harer nama... [Cc. Adi 17.21].
Yasomatinandana: (loud waves drowns out voice)
Prabhupada: Ah, na me viduh sura-ganah... [Bg 10.2].
Yasomatinandana: What to speak of these teeny scientists, even the great sages can't know Him.
Prabhupada: Yes. Aham adir hi devanam...
Yasomatinandana: Maharsinam ca sarvasah.
Prabhupada: Ah.
Yasomatinandana: Even Lord Brahma, when he saw the innumerable Visnu forms of the child Krsna, then he himself said that "As far as I know, as far as I am concerned, I don't know anything about You."
Prabhupada: No, he... Yes. That is the Brahma's position, what to speak of others. Yasyantam na viduh surasura-gana devaya tasmai namah. Yam brahma varunendra-rudra-marutah stunvanti divyaih stavaih. Brahma, Varuna, all demigods. Yam brahma varunendra-rudra. Rudra even, Siva, Lord Siva. Stunvanti divyaih stavair vedaih sanga-pada-kramopanisadair gayanti yam sama-gah, dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah [SB 12.13.1]. That Bharati cited this verse. Yes.
Hrdayananda: The five gods?
Prabhupada: No, no, this verse.
Yasomatinandana: Is that by Sankaracarya, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: No, no. It is Vedic.
Svarupa Damodara: Where is it from, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: Where is it from?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: It is the Bhagavatam?
Prabhupada: Yes, Bhagavatam is there. Yam brahma varunendra-rudra-marutah stunvanti divyaih stavair vedaih sanga-pada-kramopanisadair gayanti yam sama-gah.
Svarupa Damodara: I remember Srila Prabhupada used this "acintya" to differentiate between the life and the non-living.
Prabhupada: Acintya means living.
Svarupa Damodara: No, acintya-sakti. Life, life has acintya...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Svarupa Damodara: Whereas non-life doesn't have.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: Matter, just like a molecule doesn't have this acintya. But they may...
Prabhupada: No, it has, but it is covered too much. Consciousness is covered. Potency, potent. It is potent.
Svarupa Damodara: Molecule has consciousness?
Prabhupada: Yes, everything has consciousness, but it is covered. The degree is of covering.
Umapati: I was reading the writings of Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Jaiva Dharma.
Prabhupada: Ah.
Umapati: And he is explaining the word "sraddha," and he defines it in there as the tendency of the mind towards devotion without regard to jnana or karma.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Sraddha.
Umapati: Sraddha. And I have heard it variously interpreted as meaning "faith" or "belief," which really falls short of that interpretation.
Prabhupada: What is that interpretation?
Umapati: Could you elaborate on the definition of sraddha?
Prabhupada: Sraddha is explained in Caitanya-caritamrta. Sraddha means firm conviction. That is sraddha. Just like Krsna says that "I am the Supermost." So if you have firm conviction in Krsna's words, that is sraddha.
Umapati: Yes.
Prabhupada: If you have doubts, then that is not sraddha.
Umapati: So therefore one can understand only if one is in sraddha.
Prabhupada: No, that sraddha has to be increased.
Umapati: How it is increased?
Prabhupada: The beginning of sraddha means firm conviction.
Umapati: How is it sraddha does not exist in one person, and it does exist...
Prabhupada: No, sraddha is there. It has to be awakened.
Umapati: Sraddha is in every person then.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore I say it is covered. It is covered. That covering has to be taken away. That is called bhajana (indistinct). That is called culture.
Umapati: Upasana.
Prabhupada: Upasana, bhajana, sadhana, culture, whatever you say. He has to awaken that sraddha, more and more.
Yasomatinandana: Prabhupada, is every jiva given a chance in the beginning to go in the spiritual world? Then he falls down, or...?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Or sometimes the jiva may choose directly...
Prabhupada: The jiva is atomic. It is smaller than the atoms. One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satamsah sadrsatmakah [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. So every living entity, atom.
Yasomatinandana: Is he first allowed...?
Prabhupada: Less than the atom. Smaller than the atom.
Yasomatinandana: Is he allowed to associate with Krsna in the beginning?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: As jiva, as jiva is...
Prabhupada: He's always with Krsna. Simply he has forgotten. Have you not been with Krsna? We are standing on this sand. The sand is Krsna, Krsna's energy. We are standing by the water. This is Krsna's energy. Bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh [Bg. 7.4]. Don't you read that? So is it different from Krsna?
Yasomatinandana: No, but it is...
Prabhupada: My body is also Krsna's energy. I am also Krsna's energy. I am always with Krsna. Simply I have forgotten it.
Yasomatinandana: But this is Krsna's inferior energy, right?
Prabhupada: That may be. That is a comparative study, inferior or superior. But it is energy.
Yasomatinandana: Yes.
Prabhupada: As energy, it is not different from Krsna, as energy.
Yasomatinandana: Vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19].
Prabhupada: Yes. As energy, how can you differentiate from Krsna?
Umapati: You give the... It could be described as like the growth of a plant as compared to the energy of the sun.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: The growth of a plant as compared to the energy of the sun.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: The growth of the plant is the inferior energy, and the... (loud waves)
Prabhupada: Yes, there are so many things. That is comparative study. But... (loud waves) Energy is not different from the energetic. Sunshine is not different from the sun. Idam hi visvam bhagavan ivetarah. Everything is Bhagavan, but it appears like different.
Yasomatinandana: Is that what it means by sarvam khalv idam brahma?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yasomatinandana: Everything is spiritual, but when it is... due to our ignorance, we think it is material.
Prabhupada: Yes, but don't associate with... (indistinct) ...must realize.
Yasomatinandana: So Mayavadis artificially think that?
Prabhupada: Yes. They have no realization.
Yasomatinandana: Somebody even asked me about what is material and what is spiritual, Prabhupada. I said that whatever is in connection with God is spiritual and whatever is not in connection with God is material. Is that right?
Prabhupada: That's nice, that's nice.
Karandhara: The consciousness makes a difference.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Karandhara: Your consciousness makes the difference.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Karandhara: Because everything is in connection with God except for our own consciousness when we're in maya.
Prabhupada: Just like we are taking prasadam. How it is spiritual?
Yasomatinandana: It is offered to Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: By our knowledge, that it is...
Prabhupada: By knowledge... Because it is offered to Krsna. The Krsna consciousness is there. So anything which is accepted in Krsna consciousness, that is spiritual thing.
Umapati: In perfect knowledge, would the first step be faith that it is offered to Krsna? One may, may make an offering without being...
Prabhupada: Well, he must learn under superior direction. Otherwise, how he can offer?
Umapati: Well, he may make an attempt. There is a natural impulse to serve, a natural impulse to offer in man, and he may not be aware that he is seeking Krsna in his conditioned state. Then, if...
Prabhupada: Then whom he's offering? If he doesn't know Krsna...
Umapati: That is his ignorance. If he is seeking.
Prabhupada: Then, if he's in ignorance, what is the value of his offering?
Umapati: I did not hear the last point.
Hrdayananda: If he's in ignorance, what is the value of the offering?
Umapati: That is true.
Hrdayananda: He needs a spiritual master.
Umapati: Yes.
Prabhupada: You cannot do anything in ignorance.
Umapati: But then the spiritual master gives him knowledge...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: ...and then from that knowledge he becomes aware that...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: ...Krsna is in the offering.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hrdayananda: Jaya.
Yasomatinandana: Spiritual master gives knowledge, and then a disciple is eternally indebted to spiritual master.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yasomatinandana: It is not that, like Mayavadis, they serve the spiritual master in the beginning and then they...
Prabhupada: Then they...
Yasomatinandana: ...themselves become...
Prabhupada: ...throw him away, "Go away. I have now learned." Guru-mara-vidya, to, the knowledge of how to kill guru. Guru-mara-vidya. Their, the philosophy is that you cannot rise up. You take a ladder. But as soon as you rise, throw away the ladder. No more. No more needed. That is Mayavada philosophy. Our philosophy is dhyayan stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam.
Yasomatinandana: Three...
Prabhupada: Eternally.
Yasomatinandana: Somebody told me, Prabhupada, about Vallabhacarya, that he sometimes, he once went to Lord Caitanya and said that he wrote a better commentary than a previous acarya, and Lord...
Prabhupada: Yes. Sridhara Svami.
Yasomatinandana: Lord Caitanya chastised him?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Karandhara: An unchaste wife who abandons a swami.
Prabhupada: He referred to Sridhara Svami. So swami means husband. So He sarcastically remarked, "Anyone who does not accept swami, she is prostitute."
Yasomatinandana: Is Vallabhacarya, Prabhupada, in accordance with our philosophy?
Prabhupada: Yes, he's Vaisnava, acarya. But that very deviation, that "I have done something better than Sridhara," that is not our parampara system. Then he was thinking himself better than Sridhara. That is not allowed. We should always remain servant of the servant [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Never we shall think that "I am better than my Guru Maharaja." That is fall down. Hare Krsna Hare... Our Juhu Beach is very nice.
Yasomatinandana: Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: All clean, and you can walk very nicely. In Bombay.
Yasomatinandana: And lot of people can see you. And they bow down to you?
Prabhupada: If they do not, what can I do?
Yasomatinandana: Well, no, if they do, then they will go to Vaikuntha. (laughter)
Prabhupada: That is our sastric injunction, that as soon as you see a sannyasi, you must bow down. Otherwise, you should fast one day. It doesn't matter, I or you. This is the injunction of the sastra, that sannyasi is supposed to be the guru of the society. So one must bow down.
Yasomatinandana: Prabhupada, in our movement there are so many sannyasis. If we see the sannyasi, same, so many times in one day, we should bow down every time we see him?
Prabhupada: If you can, of course.
Srutakirti: It wouldn't hurt.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...this time He used to take His sankirtana party for strolling all over the city.
udilo aruna puraba-bhage
dwija-mani gora amani jage
Hare Krsna Hare Krsna...
Hrdayananda: Prabhupada, we are helpless without you.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hrdayananda: We are helpless without you.
Prabhupada: Hm. Yes. Today sky is clear.
Umapati: With this energy crisis now, it'll be even clearer.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: With this energy crisis it'll be even more clear. [break] ...these people, these politicians, this power that we have in our government would be..., come to an end.
Prabhupada: It has already come to an end. There is no government anywhere, simply chaos.
Yasomatinandana: Prabhupada, do you think that the ISKCON will, this Krsna consciousness will become a major religion in any country?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Krsna consciousness will become a major religion in any country?
Prabhupada: So far the statement goes, manusyanam sahasresu [Bg. 7.3], one can understand. But even one person understands, it is beneficial for many. Yes.
Yasomatinandana: Just like you understood your Guru Maharaja's message, and the whole world is benefited.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hrdayananda: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada.
Yasomatinandana: Not everybody can be that potent. [break]
Prabhupada: ...just like the sunshine is open to everyone, but if you do not take advantage of it, that is your fault. Sunshine is not meant for, specifically for any person. It is open to everyone. But if you purposefully close your door, and do not see the sunshine, that is your fault.
Yasomatinandana: Yes, Prabhupada, but there's only one earthly planet, and you have conquered it already.
Umapati: Is not a true Vaisnava also a sannyasi? Would you explain the difference between them?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: Is not a, one who is truly a Vaisnava, is he not also a sannyasi by his...?
Prabhupada: Sannyasi, sannyasi is in the material platform, and Vaisnava is in the spiritual platform.
Umapati: So then the Vaisnava is superior to a sannyasi?
Prabhupada: Yes. He's not sannyasi. He's above sannyasi.
Umapati: Oh. But a Vaisnava would always offer his respects to a sannyasi. Is that not true?
Prabhupada: Yes, Krsna was offering respect to His elderly persons. That is etiquette.
Karandhara: Step aside a little bit so that Prabhupada can... If you stay to the side a little bit, you box Prabhupada in.
Umapati: There's some austerity, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Yes. What is that?
Umapati: They're sleeping on the beach.
Prabhupada: So what is the benefit of their sleeping? (laughter)
Umapati: They save their rent money.
Prabhupada: Eh? That is his misfortune. That is a young man's fashion in your country.
Umapati: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is not austerity. That is licentiousness.
Umapati: Yes. It comes from a time when we admire swashbuckling and being free, so-called, in the material sense.
Prabhupada: That is reaction. The rich man is trying to become a poor man. "Let me see what is the advantage of the poor man." That's right. Your country does not require to lie down like that. You have got enough arrangement. But it is a fashion. That's all. So fashion is not austerity. That is sense gratification. It appears like austerity, but it is sense gratification. Real austerity is not to make any sense gratification, simply to serve Krsna. That is real austerity.
Umapati: So if Krsna required us to sleep on the beach, then...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: ...that would not be... if Krsna required us to sleep on the beach, that would not be sense gratification.
Prabhupada: No. And why Krsna will require like that? Do you mean to say Krsna is a madman?
Umapati: No.
Yasomatinandana: Yes, I was thinking that too. Why would Krsna require any of his devotees to sleep on the beach?
Prabhupada: He wants to see His devotees are comfortably situated. Why He'll unnecessarily ask that "Go to the beach and lie down?"
Umapati: You say that Krsna stands there smiling very sweetly, playing the flute.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: So why should he require us to go through austerities like...?
Prabhupada: Yes. Acarya means he must show by example. Apani acari bhakti sikhaimu sabare. Hare Krsna...
Umapati: Is there such a thing as a sincere atheist...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: ...who benefits by austerity?
Prabhupada: Atheist? Atheist? How he's sincere?
Umapati: That's what I... That's what I'm asking.
Prabhupada: Honest thief? It is contradictory. If I say, "Here is an honest thief," is that a good designation, honest thief?
Umapati: Well, in that case, that's so. You're right. It's absurd. Yes.
Prabhupada: So...
Yasomatinandana: A sincere atheist...
Umapati: But there are those who appear... At least, they think, they feel they are sincere when they go through austerities, but they won't accept Krsna consciousness as, at this point in their, in their existence.
Prabhupada: No, some atheists say that "We are Godless because nobody has convinced us about the existence of God." That is honesty. That is honesty. But there are rascals, however you may convince him, he'll not take it. That is rascaldom.
Yasomatinandana: Believe in God.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hrdayananda: So the honest ones become devotees?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hrdayananda: We were all...
Prabhupada: If he's honest, then he must take.
Yasomatinandana: We were all atheists, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: We were all atheists.
Prabhupada: Yes. If you, if, if, if an atheist is honest, then when he's convinced, he must accept Krsna. That is honesty. If after convincing him, he does not take, that is dishonesty.
Umapati: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is dishonesty.
Umapati: But there's a quality in this age that one does not accept defeat philosophically, philosophical defeat. If one is presented with philosophically sound arguments, it is a tendency today to refuse to accept the superiority of Krsna consciousness philosophy over any other philosophy.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: It's very popular to put all philosophies in the same... "Well, that's philosophy," they say. They say that "Everybody has his opinion. That's your opinion," they say.
Prabhupada: No.
Umapati: So no one will accept any kind of superior philosophy. It's very difficult to discuss these things among them.
Prabhupada: No, then everyone, if becomes superior, then where is the question of philosophy? If everyone is superior himself, then there is no question of philosophy. Is there any necessity? You are superior, I am superior; then where is the question of discussing philosophy?
Umapati: That is trying to be God. He's trying... Then we are always God.
Prabhupada: Then philosophy becomes null and void. As soon as everyone becomes his own authority, then philosophy becomes null and void. There is no necessity of philosophy.
Umapati: That is the difficulty of our age.
Prabhupada: That means they are rascals. Mudhah. If you do not accept philosophy, you do not accept authority, that means all rascals.
Hrdayananda: You said, "alpa-medhasah..."
Prabhupada: Outlaws, they are called outlaws. Just the outlaws, they do not accept any authority, government authority, or authority of the law, they're called outlaws. Rejected.
Umapati: Yeah, well, this is a nation of outlaws.
Prabhupada: So they are rejected. If anyone, everyone becomes his own authority, then it is chaos.
Umapati: Well, that is the fashion today.
Prabhupada: Yes. Fashion means...
Umapati: It's called "Do your own thing."
Prabhupada: No, who are you to say me, "Do your own thing"? Then you become master. You are directing me. Why should you direct me, "Do your own thing"? You stop. Don't talk. If your philosophy accepted that everyone is authority, you cannot say, "Do your own work." Why should you say? Then you become authority. You should not speak at all.
Karandhara: That is also a philosophy.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Karandhara: That is also a philosophy.
Prabhupada: What is that philosophy?
Karandhara: That "Do your own thing" is also a philosophy.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is a philosophy. Why you are dictating? You'd better stop. Don't talk. That's all. You have no facility for talking. Have you?
Umapati: No, I haven't.
Prabhupada: Then? You keep yourself satisfied with your own philosophy. I keep myself satisfied with my philosophy. There is no need of talking.
Hrdayananda: Jaya.
Prabhupada: And that is good. If a foolish man does not talk, it is good for him and good for others. Because he'll talk foolish. Better not to talk. That is good. That... Infectious diseased man... what is called? Quarantine.
Karandhara: Quarantine.
Prabhupada: He's put separately so that he may not poison others. He may not poison others. So that is the position of the self-sufficient authority.
Yasomatinandana: In Gujarati we call it: bhanji moti laksmim.(?) When the palm is closed it is worth lakh rupees, but when it is open, it doesn't mean anything. A foolish person, when he talks, he reveals everything.
Prabhupada: Yes. Foolish person means busy rascal. There are four kinds of division: lazy intelligent and busy intelligent and lazy rascal and busy rascal. The first-class man is lazy intelligent, and second class, busy intelligent, and third class, lazy rascal, and fourth class, busy rascal. A rascal, if he's busy, then what he will do? He'll simply do harm. That's all.
Karandhara: Create havoc.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Karandhara: Create havoc.
Prabhupada: Havoc, create havoc. Just as they are doing now. All rascals, they are very busy.
Yasomatinandana: Creating atom bombs.
Prabhupada: Ah, therefore the whole world is in confusion. All rascals, they are busy. What is the use of such business? Like monkey. Monkey's very busy, always, but doing harm. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, ugra-karmanah ksayaya jagato 'hitah. These rascals, they are busy just to destroy the whole world and do the mischief. That's all. Actually, they are doing so. That we also... In English language, sometimes it is said, "A sharp razor in the hands of a child." The child... That is this imitation. They want to imitate their father. So if he imitates the razor sharp, then he will create havoc. So these rascals, they have got now all power, and therefore creating havoc. They do not know how to use it. According to Vedic principle, the sudras, they should not be given more money, the worker class. Now the worker class is given more money. So what they'll do? They'll produce drunkards. That's all. In America, it is evident. They do not know how to use money. So therefore we see, fifty-two percent drunkards in your country. Eh? What is the percentage?
Devotee: I'm not sure, Srila Prabhupada.
Karandhara: It's probably close to that.
Prabhupada: Eh? At least fifty-percent. Eh?
Karandhara: Drunkards, debauchers.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Karandhara: Criminals.
Prabhupada: Harer nama harer nama... [Cc. Adi 17.21]. What is the time?
Hrdayananda: Quarter to seven.
Prabhupada: Oh. So we can...?
Karandhara: We can walk around a little bit.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Umapati: So how... Is it a waste of time then to present Krsna consciousness philosophy to someone who believes in doing your own thing? Do you think that that is a...?
Prabhupada: No. It is, it is... We should push Krsna consciousness as disinfecting agent. They're all infected, the whole world. So by chanting you disinfect.
Umapati: Just by our presence chanting then?
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore chanting is so important. Philosophy later on. First of all, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing the heart.
Devotees: Jaya.
Prabhupada: Cleansing the heart. So by hearing this chanting their heart will be cleansed gradually. Then they will understand the real position.
Umapati: Oh. Jaya.
Hrdayananda: Oh, Krsna.
Prabhupada: So we have to do this chanting, not sit down in a solitary place, chanting himself. No, not like that. You are to vibrate the sound for the benefit of others.
Umapati: That is the mystical process of this movement.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. So that their heart may be cleansed and they can understand. And if I sit down in a solitary place, for my benefit, that may be his benefit, but it is not very high class engagement. He must sacrifice for others. Pararthe prag utsri, utsri(?). That is the Canakya Pandita's moral instruction, that "Everyone should sacrifice for the Supreme." Caitanya Mahaprabhu is God Himself. He comes down to preach, to become sannyasi, and to take so much trouble all over India and everywhere, and giving instruction and sending men, "Go, go, go, go." What? Why you...? He's perfect. Why He's coming? He doesn't require. No. For the benefit of others, we must follow the footsteps of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. (aside:) That's all right. Why water is here?
Karandhara: I don't know, Prabhupada. It's a low spot.
Prabhupada: A Vaisnava's first qualification that he's unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Vaisnava cannot be unhappy. That Prahlada Maharaja says, that "I have no problem. I am unhappy seeing these people who are simply engaged in false activities and they do not care for Krsna consciousness. Therefore I am unhappy." This is Vaisnava's qualification. Not that "I am saved. That's all right." That is materialism. "Let others go to hell. I am saved." That is materialism. A Vaisnava should think always, "Oh, so many people are suffering. What I am doing for them?" That is Vaisnava. Para-duhkha-duhkhi.
Svarupa Damodara: That is also said by scientists. They also say that "People are suffering. So we are trying to make them happy."
Prabhupada: That's all right, but if you do not know, how you'll make them happy? You'll create havoc.
Yasomatinandana: Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [Bg. 13.9].
Prabhupada: Yes, you do not know how to make them happy. First of all learn how to make them happy. You cannot manufacture your program to make them happy. That everyone is doing. But the more they are acting, the world becoming in chaotic condition. You know what is the standard of happiness, how to make them happy; then you can work. If a medical man, he has never seen a medical college and if he wants to treat patient, what is this?
Hrdayananda: A criminal.
Prabhupada: Yes. Quack. He must know how to make them happy. That is first business.
Yasomatinandana: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Karandhara: Thank you, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Jaya.
Hrdayananda: Jaya. All glories to Prabhupada. (Prabhupada gets in the car)
Prabhupada: [break] ...basic disease. He has made himself voluntarily under the clutches of maya. And maya's business is to give trouble. That's all. Otherwise, he's free, but he has voluntarily accepted the custody of maya. Yaya sammohito jivah. Sammohitah means bewildered. Jiva, the living entities. Atmanam tri-gunatmakam. Everyone is identifying, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this body," "I am that body." This is identification with maya. Atmanam tri-gunatmakam. Tat-krtam cabhipadyate. And as soon as he becomes under the clutches of maya, he'll act according to the dictation of maya. Tat-krtam cabhipadyate. [break] ...to see their Los Angeles Zoo? Why they're advertising?
Sudama: The Los Angeles what, Prabhupada?
Hrdayananda: Zoo.
Prabhupada: Zoo.
Sudama: Oh yeah?
Karandhara: It's not a very good zoo.
Sudama: No, it's not.
Karandhara: Just a small little one.
Hrdayananda: The big zoo is in San Diego.
Prabhupada: Eh? No, zoo in the Africa.
Sudama: Oh yeah?
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughter) No, actually they go. There is a national zoo. Thousands of... Practically Africa's main income is from the tourists.
Srutakirti: Tourism.
Prabhupada: Yes. People go to see. You'll, you'll drive your car. You'll find lions, elephants, or...
Srutakirti: Recently one of Brahmananda's men had an accident by hitting some animal on the road. Large animal, I think it was.
Prabhupada: Oh, what accident?
Srutakirti: One of the vans. One of the devotees ran into an animal on the road.
Prabhupada: Accha?
Srutakirti: I'm not sure what it was.
Prabhupada: No, the national garden means there is arrangement. The animals are free, roaming. But you can go with your car and...
Hrdayananda: Oh yes.
Prabhupada: And they cannot attack within the car.
Sudama: No.
Prabhupada: But if you come out, they'll attack. The lions are there, elephants are there. [break]
Sudama: Not very cold?
Prabhupada: Not very cold.
Sudama: No, no. Compared to Hawaii, it is very cold.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Sudama: Compared to Hawaii, it is very cold.
Prabhupada: Oh. Hawaii is very pleasant.
Sudama: Yes, now it is eighty-five degrees every day.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Sudama: It's wintertime now.
Prabhupada: And summer?
Sudama: Summer's very hot. Hundred and five.
Prabhupada: But there is rainfall.
Sudama: Yes.
Prabhupada: Summer.
Sudama: Yes. There's quite a bit now. Sometimes in the winter it rains. So that one devotee brought up the point of the philosophy of "Do your own thing," and that's what the devotees were instructed in Hawaii to do. When they closed the temple, Gaurasundara just said, "Now everyone go and do your own thing for Prabhupada."
Prabhupada: If he does Prabhupada's work, then where is the own thing?
Sudama: Yeah, right. There's...
Prabhupada: "Do your own thing on behalf of Prabhupada." So if he wants Prabhupada, he must abide by the order of Prabhupada.
Sudama: Yeah. My thing is your thing. Actually, I have nothing of my own.
Prabhupada: No, they have been misguided. But temple closing was very irresponsible... [break] ...house many years.
Sudama: Many years. (end)
Prabhupada: So one must give service. Simply to feel, "I belong to Krsna's family," and doing nothing for Krsna, that is not...
Sudama: That's no good.
Prabhupada: That's no good. That is not good. That means he'll... Very soon he'll again forget Krsna. He'll again forget Krsna.
Sudama: Actually, the other element is so powerful. These people here, because, even though they are part of Krsna's family, but because they have forgotten, then we become influenced by their forgetfulness.
Prabhupada: Yes. Forgetfulness means maya.
Sudama: Yes.
Prabhupada: Maya is nothing. It is a forgetfulness. That's all. It has no existence. Forgetfulness, it does not stand. But so long it is there, it is very troublesome.
Sudama: I've been asked a question by some devotees sometimes that they don't feel happy. So even if they are unhappy, mentally, should, they still should continue in Krsna consciousness. I tell them, even if one is unhappy...
Prabhupada: But you should show example. If you show example different way, how they will follow you?
Sudama: Yeah.
Prabhupada: Example is better than precept. Why you are living outside?
Sudama: Well, I...
Prabhupada: [break] ...last time I was so much deteriorated in health, I had to leave this place. That does not mean I'll leave the Society. I went to India and recuperated. Or came to London. That's all right. So health may be sometimes... But that does not mean we shall give up the Society. If my health is unsuitable here, I go... I have a hundred centers. And you'll not go out of this universe for your health recouping. You have to remain within the universe. Then why do you go out of the Society? [break] ...Sri Narottama dasa Thakura. We have to live with devotees. Why I left my family? Because they were not devotees. Therefore I come... Otherwise, in old age, I would have been comfortable. No. We should not live with the nondevotees, may be family men or anyone. Just like Maharaja Vibhisana. Because his brother was not devotee, he left him, left him. He came to Ramacandra. Vibhisana. You know that?
Sudama: Yes.
Hrdayananda: So Prabhupada, it says that a sannyasi should live alone. That means only with devotees.
Prabhupada: Who...! Where it is said sannyasi should live alone?
Hrdayananda: I mean, sometimes in your books.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hrdayananda: Sometimes in your books. So that means with devotees.
Prabhupada: In general, sannyasi may live alone. But sannyasi's duty is to preach.
Sudama: That I don't ever want to stop.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Sudama: I don't ever want to stop preaching.
Prabhupada: Yes. Well, preaching, you cannot manufacture preaching. You must do preaching according to the principles ordered by your spiritual master. You cannot manufacture your own way of preaching. That is required. There must be some leader. Under the leadership. Yasya prasadad bhagavat... Why it is said? Everywhere, in the office, there is some immediate boss. So you have to please him. That is service. Suppose in office, in a department there is office superintendent. And if you do in your own way, "Yes, I'm doing my business," and the office superintendent is not pleased, do you think that kind of service is nice? No. Similarly, we have got, everywhere we have got immediate boss. So we must work. That is systematic. If everyone manufactures, invents his own way of life, then there must be chaos.
Sudama: Yeah, that's true.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now we are world organization. There is spiritual side, and there is material side also. That is not material side. That is also spiritual side, means systematic management. Otherwise how it will be done? Just like Gaurasundara sold the house, and there is no trace of the money. What is this? He did not ask him, anyone. He sold the house, and where is the money, there is no trace. [break] Ah, Hare Krsna. What is that badge? Tennis?
Devotee: It's not a badge. It's the only sweater I...
Prabhupada: Oh, that's nice. Yesterday I received one letter from Rupanuga Maharaja. He's preaching very nice. Yes.
Hrdayananda: Rupanuga?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: There have been several people here in Los Angeles...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: ...that have wanted to meet you. A councilman, a councilman here in Los Angeles would like to meet you, a city councilman.
Prabhupada: Yes. Oh, yes. He's welcome.
Umapati: So, and, and um, also a Professor Scharfe at the UCLA, he's...
Prabhupada: Professor?
Umapati: Professor Scharfe. He's a Sanskrit scholar of the Vedic, Vedic...
Svarupa Damodara: Scharfer?
Umapati: Scharfe. Scharfe.
Svarupa Damodara: It's not Scharfer?
Devotee: Scharfe, spelled S-c-h-a-r-f-e.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, I met him.
Umapati: Yes. He would like very much to meet with you.
Prabhupada: All right. Make appointment. What, what is his purpose to meet me?
Umapati: Well, Professor Scharfe is interested in your writings, and I don't know the councilman's motives. He just sent word to me that he would like to meet with you.
Prabhupada: We welcome any respectable gentleman. We have to go this way?
Karandhara: Uh, yeah, Prabhupada, we can go this way, through here. [break]
Hrdayananda: The scientists will never give up.
Prabhupada: They are trying.
Hrdayananda: They are like Jarasandha. They come back every day on your walk.
Svarupa Damodara: Srila Prabhupada, we have any specific reference for acintya in the Vedic reference?
Prabhupada: Acintya, acintya, yes, acintya. Acintya potency, even you have got acintya potency. That I have already explained. Because we are part and parcel of Krsna, therefore there is pinch of acintya, inconceivable potency, in us also. Harer nama harer nama harer nama... [Cc. Adi 17.21].
Svarupa Damodara: Do we have any specific reference?
Prabhupada: Yes. Jiva Gosvami. Jiva Gosvami has stated that unless we accept acintya, inconceivable energy, there is no conception of God. There is no conception of God. If you bring God to your conception, he's not God.
Umapati: Acintya, acintya-bheda is a unique contribution of Vaisnavas to the concept of God.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Actually, that is the fact. We cannot explain what is God. We have to accept what is God from God.
Yasomatinandana: Avaroha.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Avaroha process?
Prabhupada: Yes, not ava... Yes, avaroha process. Yes, thank you. Here Krsna says, mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. We have to accept that. Mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7]. So "There is no more superior authority than Me." Harer nama harer nama... [Cc. Adi 17.21].
Yasomatinandana: (loud waves drowns out voice)
Prabhupada: Ah, na me viduh sura-ganah... [Bg 10.2].
Yasomatinandana: What to speak of these teeny scientists, even the great sages can't know Him.
Prabhupada: Yes. Aham adir hi devanam...
Yasomatinandana: Maharsinam ca sarvasah.
Prabhupada: Ah.
Yasomatinandana: Even Lord Brahma, when he saw the innumerable Visnu forms of the child Krsna, then he himself said that "As far as I know, as far as I am concerned, I don't know anything about You."
Prabhupada: No, he... Yes. That is the Brahma's position, what to speak of others. Yasyantam na viduh surasura-gana devaya tasmai namah. Yam brahma varunendra-rudra-marutah stunvanti divyaih stavaih. Brahma, Varuna, all demigods. Yam brahma varunendra-rudra. Rudra even, Siva, Lord Siva. Stunvanti divyaih stavair vedaih sanga-pada-kramopanisadair gayanti yam sama-gah, dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah [SB 12.13.1]. That Bharati cited this verse. Yes.
Hrdayananda: The five gods?
Prabhupada: No, no, this verse.
Yasomatinandana: Is that by Sankaracarya, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: No, no. It is Vedic.
Svarupa Damodara: Where is it from, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: Where is it from?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: It is the Bhagavatam?
Prabhupada: Yes, Bhagavatam is there. Yam brahma varunendra-rudra-marutah stunvanti divyaih stavair vedaih sanga-pada-kramopanisadair gayanti yam sama-gah.
Svarupa Damodara: I remember Srila Prabhupada used this "acintya" to differentiate between the life and the non-living.
Prabhupada: Acintya means living.
Svarupa Damodara: No, acintya-sakti. Life, life has acintya...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Svarupa Damodara: Whereas non-life doesn't have.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: Matter, just like a molecule doesn't have this acintya. But they may...
Prabhupada: No, it has, but it is covered too much. Consciousness is covered. Potency, potent. It is potent.
Svarupa Damodara: Molecule has consciousness?
Prabhupada: Yes, everything has consciousness, but it is covered. The degree is of covering.
Umapati: I was reading the writings of Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Jaiva Dharma.
Prabhupada: Ah.
Umapati: And he is explaining the word "sraddha," and he defines it in there as the tendency of the mind towards devotion without regard to jnana or karma.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Sraddha.
Umapati: Sraddha. And I have heard it variously interpreted as meaning "faith" or "belief," which really falls short of that interpretation.
Prabhupada: What is that interpretation?
Umapati: Could you elaborate on the definition of sraddha?
Prabhupada: Sraddha is explained in Caitanya-caritamrta. Sraddha means firm conviction. That is sraddha. Just like Krsna says that "I am the Supermost." So if you have firm conviction in Krsna's words, that is sraddha.
Umapati: Yes.
Prabhupada: If you have doubts, then that is not sraddha.
Umapati: So therefore one can understand only if one is in sraddha.
Prabhupada: No, that sraddha has to be increased.
Umapati: How it is increased?
Prabhupada: The beginning of sraddha means firm conviction.
Umapati: How is it sraddha does not exist in one person, and it does exist...
Prabhupada: No, sraddha is there. It has to be awakened.
Umapati: Sraddha is in every person then.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore I say it is covered. It is covered. That covering has to be taken away. That is called bhajana (indistinct). That is called culture.
Umapati: Upasana.
Prabhupada: Upasana, bhajana, sadhana, culture, whatever you say. He has to awaken that sraddha, more and more.
Yasomatinandana: Prabhupada, is every jiva given a chance in the beginning to go in the spiritual world? Then he falls down, or...?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Or sometimes the jiva may choose directly...
Prabhupada: The jiva is atomic. It is smaller than the atoms. One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satamsah sadrsatmakah [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. So every living entity, atom.
Yasomatinandana: Is he first allowed...?
Prabhupada: Less than the atom. Smaller than the atom.
Yasomatinandana: Is he allowed to associate with Krsna in the beginning?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: As jiva, as jiva is...
Prabhupada: He's always with Krsna. Simply he has forgotten. Have you not been with Krsna? We are standing on this sand. The sand is Krsna, Krsna's energy. We are standing by the water. This is Krsna's energy. Bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh [Bg. 7.4]. Don't you read that? So is it different from Krsna?
Yasomatinandana: No, but it is...
Prabhupada: My body is also Krsna's energy. I am also Krsna's energy. I am always with Krsna. Simply I have forgotten it.
Yasomatinandana: But this is Krsna's inferior energy, right?
Prabhupada: That may be. That is a comparative study, inferior or superior. But it is energy.
Yasomatinandana: Yes.
Prabhupada: As energy, it is not different from Krsna, as energy.
Yasomatinandana: Vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19].
Prabhupada: Yes. As energy, how can you differentiate from Krsna?
Umapati: You give the... It could be described as like the growth of a plant as compared to the energy of the sun.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: The growth of a plant as compared to the energy of the sun.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: The growth of the plant is the inferior energy, and the... (loud waves)
Prabhupada: Yes, there are so many things. That is comparative study. But... (loud waves) Energy is not different from the energetic. Sunshine is not different from the sun. Idam hi visvam bhagavan ivetarah. Everything is Bhagavan, but it appears like different.
Yasomatinandana: Is that what it means by sarvam khalv idam brahma?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yasomatinandana: Everything is spiritual, but when it is... due to our ignorance, we think it is material.
Prabhupada: Yes, but don't associate with... (indistinct) ...must realize.
Yasomatinandana: So Mayavadis artificially think that?
Prabhupada: Yes. They have no realization.
Yasomatinandana: Somebody even asked me about what is material and what is spiritual, Prabhupada. I said that whatever is in connection with God is spiritual and whatever is not in connection with God is material. Is that right?
Prabhupada: That's nice, that's nice.
Karandhara: The consciousness makes a difference.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Karandhara: Your consciousness makes the difference.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Karandhara: Because everything is in connection with God except for our own consciousness when we're in maya.
Prabhupada: Just like we are taking prasadam. How it is spiritual?
Yasomatinandana: It is offered to Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: By our knowledge, that it is...
Prabhupada: By knowledge... Because it is offered to Krsna. The Krsna consciousness is there. So anything which is accepted in Krsna consciousness, that is spiritual thing.
Umapati: In perfect knowledge, would the first step be faith that it is offered to Krsna? One may, may make an offering without being...
Prabhupada: Well, he must learn under superior direction. Otherwise, how he can offer?
Umapati: Well, he may make an attempt. There is a natural impulse to serve, a natural impulse to offer in man, and he may not be aware that he is seeking Krsna in his conditioned state. Then, if...
Prabhupada: Then whom he's offering? If he doesn't know Krsna...
Umapati: That is his ignorance. If he is seeking.
Prabhupada: Then, if he's in ignorance, what is the value of his offering?
Umapati: I did not hear the last point.
Hrdayananda: If he's in ignorance, what is the value of the offering?
Umapati: That is true.
Hrdayananda: He needs a spiritual master.
Umapati: Yes.
Prabhupada: You cannot do anything in ignorance.
Umapati: But then the spiritual master gives him knowledge...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: ...and then from that knowledge he becomes aware that...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: ...Krsna is in the offering.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hrdayananda: Jaya.
Yasomatinandana: Spiritual master gives knowledge, and then a disciple is eternally indebted to spiritual master.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yasomatinandana: It is not that, like Mayavadis, they serve the spiritual master in the beginning and then they...
Prabhupada: Then they...
Yasomatinandana: ...themselves become...
Prabhupada: ...throw him away, "Go away. I have now learned." Guru-mara-vidya, to, the knowledge of how to kill guru. Guru-mara-vidya. Their, the philosophy is that you cannot rise up. You take a ladder. But as soon as you rise, throw away the ladder. No more. No more needed. That is Mayavada philosophy. Our philosophy is dhyayan stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam.
Yasomatinandana: Three...
Prabhupada: Eternally.
Yasomatinandana: Somebody told me, Prabhupada, about Vallabhacarya, that he sometimes, he once went to Lord Caitanya and said that he wrote a better commentary than a previous acarya, and Lord...
Prabhupada: Yes. Sridhara Svami.
Yasomatinandana: Lord Caitanya chastised him?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Karandhara: An unchaste wife who abandons a swami.
Prabhupada: He referred to Sridhara Svami. So swami means husband. So He sarcastically remarked, "Anyone who does not accept swami, she is prostitute."
Yasomatinandana: Is Vallabhacarya, Prabhupada, in accordance with our philosophy?
Prabhupada: Yes, he's Vaisnava, acarya. But that very deviation, that "I have done something better than Sridhara," that is not our parampara system. Then he was thinking himself better than Sridhara. That is not allowed. We should always remain servant of the servant [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Never we shall think that "I am better than my Guru Maharaja." That is fall down. Hare Krsna Hare... Our Juhu Beach is very nice.
Yasomatinandana: Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: All clean, and you can walk very nicely. In Bombay.
Yasomatinandana: And lot of people can see you. And they bow down to you?
Prabhupada: If they do not, what can I do?
Yasomatinandana: Well, no, if they do, then they will go to Vaikuntha. (laughter)
Prabhupada: That is our sastric injunction, that as soon as you see a sannyasi, you must bow down. Otherwise, you should fast one day. It doesn't matter, I or you. This is the injunction of the sastra, that sannyasi is supposed to be the guru of the society. So one must bow down.
Yasomatinandana: Prabhupada, in our movement there are so many sannyasis. If we see the sannyasi, same, so many times in one day, we should bow down every time we see him?
Prabhupada: If you can, of course.
Srutakirti: It wouldn't hurt.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...this time He used to take His sankirtana party for strolling all over the city.
udilo aruna puraba-bhage
dwija-mani gora amani jage
Hare Krsna Hare Krsna...
Hrdayananda: Prabhupada, we are helpless without you.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hrdayananda: We are helpless without you.
Prabhupada: Hm. Yes. Today sky is clear.
Umapati: With this energy crisis now, it'll be even clearer.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: With this energy crisis it'll be even more clear. [break] ...these people, these politicians, this power that we have in our government would be..., come to an end.
Prabhupada: It has already come to an end. There is no government anywhere, simply chaos.
Yasomatinandana: Prabhupada, do you think that the ISKCON will, this Krsna consciousness will become a major religion in any country?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Krsna consciousness will become a major religion in any country?
Prabhupada: So far the statement goes, manusyanam sahasresu [Bg. 7.3], one can understand. But even one person understands, it is beneficial for many. Yes.
Yasomatinandana: Just like you understood your Guru Maharaja's message, and the whole world is benefited.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hrdayananda: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada.
Yasomatinandana: Not everybody can be that potent. [break]
Prabhupada: ...just like the sunshine is open to everyone, but if you do not take advantage of it, that is your fault. Sunshine is not meant for, specifically for any person. It is open to everyone. But if you purposefully close your door, and do not see the sunshine, that is your fault.
Yasomatinandana: Yes, Prabhupada, but there's only one earthly planet, and you have conquered it already.
Umapati: Is not a true Vaisnava also a sannyasi? Would you explain the difference between them?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: Is not a, one who is truly a Vaisnava, is he not also a sannyasi by his...?
Prabhupada: Sannyasi, sannyasi is in the material platform, and Vaisnava is in the spiritual platform.
Umapati: So then the Vaisnava is superior to a sannyasi?
Prabhupada: Yes. He's not sannyasi. He's above sannyasi.
Umapati: Oh. But a Vaisnava would always offer his respects to a sannyasi. Is that not true?
Prabhupada: Yes, Krsna was offering respect to His elderly persons. That is etiquette.
Karandhara: Step aside a little bit so that Prabhupada can... If you stay to the side a little bit, you box Prabhupada in.
Umapati: There's some austerity, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Yes. What is that?
Umapati: They're sleeping on the beach.
Prabhupada: So what is the benefit of their sleeping? (laughter)
Umapati: They save their rent money.
Prabhupada: Eh? That is his misfortune. That is a young man's fashion in your country.
Umapati: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is not austerity. That is licentiousness.
Umapati: Yes. It comes from a time when we admire swashbuckling and being free, so-called, in the material sense.
Prabhupada: That is reaction. The rich man is trying to become a poor man. "Let me see what is the advantage of the poor man." That's right. Your country does not require to lie down like that. You have got enough arrangement. But it is a fashion. That's all. So fashion is not austerity. That is sense gratification. It appears like austerity, but it is sense gratification. Real austerity is not to make any sense gratification, simply to serve Krsna. That is real austerity.
Umapati: So if Krsna required us to sleep on the beach, then...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: ...that would not be... if Krsna required us to sleep on the beach, that would not be sense gratification.
Prabhupada: No. And why Krsna will require like that? Do you mean to say Krsna is a madman?
Umapati: No.
Yasomatinandana: Yes, I was thinking that too. Why would Krsna require any of his devotees to sleep on the beach?
Prabhupada: He wants to see His devotees are comfortably situated. Why He'll unnecessarily ask that "Go to the beach and lie down?"
Umapati: You say that Krsna stands there smiling very sweetly, playing the flute.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: So why should he require us to go through austerities like...?
Prabhupada: Yes. Acarya means he must show by example. Apani acari bhakti sikhaimu sabare. Hare Krsna...
Umapati: Is there such a thing as a sincere atheist...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: ...who benefits by austerity?
Prabhupada: Atheist? Atheist? How he's sincere?
Umapati: That's what I... That's what I'm asking.
Prabhupada: Honest thief? It is contradictory. If I say, "Here is an honest thief," is that a good designation, honest thief?
Umapati: Well, in that case, that's so. You're right. It's absurd. Yes.
Prabhupada: So...
Yasomatinandana: A sincere atheist...
Umapati: But there are those who appear... At least, they think, they feel they are sincere when they go through austerities, but they won't accept Krsna consciousness as, at this point in their, in their existence.
Prabhupada: No, some atheists say that "We are Godless because nobody has convinced us about the existence of God." That is honesty. That is honesty. But there are rascals, however you may convince him, he'll not take it. That is rascaldom.
Yasomatinandana: Believe in God.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hrdayananda: So the honest ones become devotees?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hrdayananda: We were all...
Prabhupada: If he's honest, then he must take.
Yasomatinandana: We were all atheists, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: We were all atheists.
Prabhupada: Yes. If you, if, if, if an atheist is honest, then when he's convinced, he must accept Krsna. That is honesty. If after convincing him, he does not take, that is dishonesty.
Umapati: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is dishonesty.
Umapati: But there's a quality in this age that one does not accept defeat philosophically, philosophical defeat. If one is presented with philosophically sound arguments, it is a tendency today to refuse to accept the superiority of Krsna consciousness philosophy over any other philosophy.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Umapati: It's very popular to put all philosophies in the same... "Well, that's philosophy," they say. They say that "Everybody has his opinion. That's your opinion," they say.
Prabhupada: No.
Umapati: So no one will accept any kind of superior philosophy. It's very difficult to discuss these things among them.
Prabhupada: No, then everyone, if becomes superior, then where is the question of philosophy? If everyone is superior himself, then there is no question of philosophy. Is there any necessity? You are superior, I am superior; then where is the question of discussing philosophy?
Umapati: That is trying to be God. He's trying... Then we are always God.
Prabhupada: Then philosophy becomes null and void. As soon as everyone becomes his own authority, then philosophy becomes null and void. There is no necessity of philosophy.
Umapati: That is the difficulty of our age.
Prabhupada: That means they are rascals. Mudhah. If you do not accept philosophy, you do not accept authority, that means all rascals.
Hrdayananda: You said, "alpa-medhasah..."
Prabhupada: Outlaws, they are called outlaws. Just the outlaws, they do not accept any authority, government authority, or authority of the law, they're called outlaws. Rejected.
Umapati: Yeah, well, this is a nation of outlaws.
Prabhupada: So they are rejected. If anyone, everyone becomes his own authority, then it is chaos.
Umapati: Well, that is the fashion today.
Prabhupada: Yes. Fashion means...
Umapati: It's called "Do your own thing."
Prabhupada: No, who are you to say me, "Do your own thing"? Then you become master. You are directing me. Why should you direct me, "Do your own thing"? You stop. Don't talk. If your philosophy accepted that everyone is authority, you cannot say, "Do your own work." Why should you say? Then you become authority. You should not speak at all.
Karandhara: That is also a philosophy.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Karandhara: That is also a philosophy.
Prabhupada: What is that philosophy?
Karandhara: That "Do your own thing" is also a philosophy.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is a philosophy. Why you are dictating? You'd better stop. Don't talk. That's all. You have no facility for talking. Have you?
Umapati: No, I haven't.
Prabhupada: Then? You keep yourself satisfied with your own philosophy. I keep myself satisfied with my philosophy. There is no need of talking.
Hrdayananda: Jaya.
Prabhupada: And that is good. If a foolish man does not talk, it is good for him and good for others. Because he'll talk foolish. Better not to talk. That is good. That... Infectious diseased man... what is called? Quarantine.
Karandhara: Quarantine.
Prabhupada: He's put separately so that he may not poison others. He may not poison others. So that is the position of the self-sufficient authority.
Yasomatinandana: In Gujarati we call it: bhanji moti laksmim.(?) When the palm is closed it is worth lakh rupees, but when it is open, it doesn't mean anything. A foolish person, when he talks, he reveals everything.
Prabhupada: Yes. Foolish person means busy rascal. There are four kinds of division: lazy intelligent and busy intelligent and lazy rascal and busy rascal. The first-class man is lazy intelligent, and second class, busy intelligent, and third class, lazy rascal, and fourth class, busy rascal. A rascal, if he's busy, then what he will do? He'll simply do harm. That's all.
Karandhara: Create havoc.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Karandhara: Create havoc.
Prabhupada: Havoc, create havoc. Just as they are doing now. All rascals, they are very busy.
Yasomatinandana: Creating atom bombs.
Prabhupada: Ah, therefore the whole world is in confusion. All rascals, they are busy. What is the use of such business? Like monkey. Monkey's very busy, always, but doing harm. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, ugra-karmanah ksayaya jagato 'hitah. These rascals, they are busy just to destroy the whole world and do the mischief. That's all. Actually, they are doing so. That we also... In English language, sometimes it is said, "A sharp razor in the hands of a child." The child... That is this imitation. They want to imitate their father. So if he imitates the razor sharp, then he will create havoc. So these rascals, they have got now all power, and therefore creating havoc. They do not know how to use it. According to Vedic principle, the sudras, they should not be given more money, the worker class. Now the worker class is given more money. So what they'll do? They'll produce drunkards. That's all. In America, it is evident. They do not know how to use money. So therefore we see, fifty-two percent drunkards in your country. Eh? What is the percentage?
Devotee: I'm not sure, Srila Prabhupada.
Karandhara: It's probably close to that.
Prabhupada: Eh? At least fifty-percent. Eh?
Karandhara: Drunkards, debauchers.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Karandhara: Criminals.
Prabhupada: Harer nama harer nama... [Cc. Adi 17.21]. What is the time?
Hrdayananda: Quarter to seven.
Prabhupada: Oh. So we can...?
Karandhara: We can walk around a little bit.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Umapati: So how... Is it a waste of time then to present Krsna consciousness philosophy to someone who believes in doing your own thing? Do you think that that is a...?
Prabhupada: No. It is, it is... We should push Krsna consciousness as disinfecting agent. They're all infected, the whole world. So by chanting you disinfect.
Umapati: Just by our presence chanting then?
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore chanting is so important. Philosophy later on. First of all, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing the heart.
Devotees: Jaya.
Prabhupada: Cleansing the heart. So by hearing this chanting their heart will be cleansed gradually. Then they will understand the real position.
Umapati: Oh. Jaya.
Hrdayananda: Oh, Krsna.
Prabhupada: So we have to do this chanting, not sit down in a solitary place, chanting himself. No, not like that. You are to vibrate the sound for the benefit of others.
Umapati: That is the mystical process of this movement.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. So that their heart may be cleansed and they can understand. And if I sit down in a solitary place, for my benefit, that may be his benefit, but it is not very high class engagement. He must sacrifice for others. Pararthe prag utsri, utsri(?). That is the Canakya Pandita's moral instruction, that "Everyone should sacrifice for the Supreme." Caitanya Mahaprabhu is God Himself. He comes down to preach, to become sannyasi, and to take so much trouble all over India and everywhere, and giving instruction and sending men, "Go, go, go, go." What? Why you...? He's perfect. Why He's coming? He doesn't require. No. For the benefit of others, we must follow the footsteps of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. (aside:) That's all right. Why water is here?
Karandhara: I don't know, Prabhupada. It's a low spot.
Prabhupada: A Vaisnava's first qualification that he's unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Vaisnava cannot be unhappy. That Prahlada Maharaja says, that "I have no problem. I am unhappy seeing these people who are simply engaged in false activities and they do not care for Krsna consciousness. Therefore I am unhappy." This is Vaisnava's qualification. Not that "I am saved. That's all right." That is materialism. "Let others go to hell. I am saved." That is materialism. A Vaisnava should think always, "Oh, so many people are suffering. What I am doing for them?" That is Vaisnava. Para-duhkha-duhkhi.
Svarupa Damodara: That is also said by scientists. They also say that "People are suffering. So we are trying to make them happy."
Prabhupada: That's all right, but if you do not know, how you'll make them happy? You'll create havoc.
Yasomatinandana: Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [Bg. 13.9].
Prabhupada: Yes, you do not know how to make them happy. First of all learn how to make them happy. You cannot manufacture your program to make them happy. That everyone is doing. But the more they are acting, the world becoming in chaotic condition. You know what is the standard of happiness, how to make them happy; then you can work. If a medical man, he has never seen a medical college and if he wants to treat patient, what is this?
Hrdayananda: A criminal.
Prabhupada: Yes. Quack. He must know how to make them happy. That is first business.
Yasomatinandana: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Karandhara: Thank you, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Jaya.
Hrdayananda: Jaya. All glories to Prabhupada. (Prabhupada gets in the car)
Prabhupada: [break] ...basic disease. He has made himself voluntarily under the clutches of maya. And maya's business is to give trouble. That's all. Otherwise, he's free, but he has voluntarily accepted the custody of maya. Yaya sammohito jivah. Sammohitah means bewildered. Jiva, the living entities. Atmanam tri-gunatmakam. Everyone is identifying, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this body," "I am that body." This is identification with maya. Atmanam tri-gunatmakam. Tat-krtam cabhipadyate. And as soon as he becomes under the clutches of maya, he'll act according to the dictation of maya. Tat-krtam cabhipadyate. [break] ...to see their Los Angeles Zoo? Why they're advertising?
Sudama: The Los Angeles what, Prabhupada?
Hrdayananda: Zoo.
Prabhupada: Zoo.
Sudama: Oh yeah?
Karandhara: It's not a very good zoo.
Sudama: No, it's not.
Karandhara: Just a small little one.
Hrdayananda: The big zoo is in San Diego.
Prabhupada: Eh? No, zoo in the Africa.
Sudama: Oh yeah?
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughter) No, actually they go. There is a national zoo. Thousands of... Practically Africa's main income is from the tourists.
Srutakirti: Tourism.
Prabhupada: Yes. People go to see. You'll, you'll drive your car. You'll find lions, elephants, or...
Srutakirti: Recently one of Brahmananda's men had an accident by hitting some animal on the road. Large animal, I think it was.
Prabhupada: Oh, what accident?
Srutakirti: One of the vans. One of the devotees ran into an animal on the road.
Prabhupada: Accha?
Srutakirti: I'm not sure what it was.
Prabhupada: No, the national garden means there is arrangement. The animals are free, roaming. But you can go with your car and...
Hrdayananda: Oh yes.
Prabhupada: And they cannot attack within the car.
Sudama: No.
Prabhupada: But if you come out, they'll attack. The lions are there, elephants are there. [break]
Sudama: Not very cold?
Prabhupada: Not very cold.
Sudama: No, no. Compared to Hawaii, it is very cold.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Sudama: Compared to Hawaii, it is very cold.
Prabhupada: Oh. Hawaii is very pleasant.
Sudama: Yes, now it is eighty-five degrees every day.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Sudama: It's wintertime now.
Prabhupada: And summer?
Sudama: Summer's very hot. Hundred and five.
Prabhupada: But there is rainfall.
Sudama: Yes.
Prabhupada: Summer.
Sudama: Yes. There's quite a bit now. Sometimes in the winter it rains. So that one devotee brought up the point of the philosophy of "Do your own thing," and that's what the devotees were instructed in Hawaii to do. When they closed the temple, Gaurasundara just said, "Now everyone go and do your own thing for Prabhupada."
Prabhupada: If he does Prabhupada's work, then where is the own thing?
Sudama: Yeah, right. There's...
Prabhupada: "Do your own thing on behalf of Prabhupada." So if he wants Prabhupada, he must abide by the order of Prabhupada.
Sudama: Yeah. My thing is your thing. Actually, I have nothing of my own.
Prabhupada: No, they have been misguided. But temple closing was very irresponsible... [break] ...house many years.
Sudama: Many years. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase =>
Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.
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