Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.25
Hawaii, January 17, 1974
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Pradyumna: (leads chanting,
etc.)
bhavan hi veda tat sarvam
yan mam dharmanuprcchasi
caturbhir vartase yena
padair loka-sukhavahaih
Translation: "The earthly deity in the form of a cow thus replied to the personality of religious principles in the form of a bull: O Dharma, whatever you have inquired from me shall be known to you. I shall try to reply to all those questions. Once you too were maintained by your four legs and increased happiness all over the universe by the mercy of the Lord."
Prabhupada: Bhavan hi veda tat sarvam yan mam dharmanuprcchasi. So, Dharmaraja, or Yamaraja, he is one of the twelve authorized persons for maintaining properly the human civilization. The principle is dharma. Dharma means not a religious sentiment. Dharma means occupational duty. Everyone has got some occupational duty. So dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. That occupational duty is assigned by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Tena tyaktena bhunjithah. Actually, the dharma principle, as we learn from Bhagavad-gita... Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Don't create, manufacture, your principle of religion, concocted. That is the difficulty. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. We have several times explained this, that dharma means -- dharma, as it is translated in English, "religion" -- religion means to obey the laws of God. That is religion, not a sentimental system of religious system we manufacture. That kind of dharma will not help us. Therefore, in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, in the beginning it is said, dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra: [SB 1.1.2] "Cheating type of religious system is kicked out." That is Bhagavata-dharma. No cheating. In the name of cheating and dharma, religious principle, that will not help the human civilization.
The real dharma... The real dharma is stated by God Himself. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. You haven't got to learn from anywhere else but from God Himself. So that is explained very nicely in the Bhagavad-gita, sarva-dharman parityajya mam... [Bg. 18.66]. To surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is religion. Not only surrender, but to act as He desires, or you become a lover of God. This is first-class religion. We have several times explained. Sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [SB 1.2.6]. That type of religion is first-class which teaches you how to become a lover of God. If you become lover, then your life is successful. Then you'll do everything for God. Otherwise, you'll simply question, "Why shall I do that? Why shall I do that? Why shall I...?" That means there is no love. That is training. Just like a novice is being trained up, and he has no love, so he'll question that "Why shall I do it? Why shall I do it? Why shall I do? What benefit I shall get?" So many questions will be there. But when there is love, there is no question. So therefore in the Bhagavad-gita, after teaching so many things, yoga, jnana, karma and so many other things, at last, Krsna says, sarva-guhyatamam: "Now I am speaking to you the most confidential instruction." What is that? Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja... [Bg. 18.66]. This is the most confidential.
So generally, a human being accepts four principles, namely dharma, artha, kama, moksa. Dharma means religious principle; artha means economic principle, how to develop economic principle; dharma, kama, how to satisfy our senses; and moksa, and ultimately, salvation. But this is material principles. We have to surpass this material principle, then come to the spiritual platform. That is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam... Sarva-dharman [Bg. 18.66]. This is also dharma. So just like people are engaged formally. Their temple, church, is sometimes, simply formality. Real, their real business is how to satisfy their senses. "If for satisfying my senses I'll have to pose myself as a religious person, so let me do that." That is their religion. But that is not religion. Real religion is no sense satisfaction, simply to satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is real religion. Therefore (s)he says, bhavan hi veda tat sarvam.
So as somebody, anything, they require four legs... Just like this platform, it has got four legs. Animal stands on four legs. Anything, it requires four pillars. So to remain steadily on the platform of dharma, these four legs required: dharma, artha, kama... If I simply remain engaged in religious principles and nobody is engaged where to get food... Because food also is required. So therefore not only religious principle, there must be economic development attempt also. But not one-man show. We should divide our society in such a way that somebody, some group of men is engaged in studying the dharma principle and spreading it. Just like we have taken the principle, generally, to spread what is meant by real dharma. That is the business of the brahmana. And similarly, some group of men should be ksatriya for ruling over. Unless there is discipline, ruling, everything will be chaos. The government must be there. The principle of directors must be there. So dharma, artha, kama. And we must live peacefully. Our senses should not disturb us. Because we have got senses, they want satisfaction. So we must give food them also, senses. Dharma, artha, kama, and moksa. But ultimate goal is how to get out of this material existence. This is four principles: dharma, artha, kama, moksa. And moksa, by the impersonalists, their moksa and real moksa... Real moksa... Moksa means liberation. Liberation means to get out of this material existence.
People do not understand what is moksa, what is economic development, what is religious principle. There is no education. So unless there is sufficient education on these principles -- dharma, artha, kama, moksa -- you cannot have peaceful life in human society. That is not... That is animal society. Dharmena hinah pasubhih samanah. If there is no principles of life, that is animal society. Unfortunately, at the present moment, the education is simply for sense gratification. That is animalistic education. Therefore, in spite of advancement of so many things, people are not happy. People are not happy. So here it is said, caturbhir vartase yena padair loka-sukhavahaih. Sukhavahaih. Sukha means happiness. If you want to increase happiness... Everyone wants to become happy. That is the highest principle. Atyantika-duhkha-nivrtti. The whole struggle is going on to minimize our miseries and to increase our happiness. That is our attempt. Everyone is working for that. Atyantika-duhkha, nivrtti. Duhkha means unhappiness, and atyantika means ultimate. So people do not understand that what is that ultimate happiness. Ultimate happiness is there. No, there is no duhkha, there is no unhappiness. That is ultimate happiness. If you study whatever happiness we are trying to establish, there is unhappiness also. It is not unmixed. It is mixed. The economic development... Just like modern age, if you, if any man wants to become rich man, he has to first of all accept unhappiness, to work very hard, day and night. Then he can get some money. Then, engaging that money for increasing further money, increasing further money... Then one day he may be millionaire. So that millionaire, to become, that is also not undisturbed happiness. "How to keep the money?" "How to invest it?"
So here, in the material world, as we are engaged, unalloyed happiness is not possible. But if you actually want unalloyed happiness, then you have to be advanced in spiritual consciousness, unalloyed. Atyantika-duhkha-nivrtti. Atyantika means ultimate, and duhkha means unhappiness. Atyantika-duhkha-nivrtti. Nivrtti means finish. So people do not see what is that atyantika-duhkha-nivrtti, what is that ultimate disappearance of unhappiness. That they do not know. So many things they do not know. Therefore it requires education. Education means knowledge, to get knowledge. And the Vedic direction is that if you want really knowledge, then tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "One has to go to the guru, or the spiritual master." Gurum eva abhigacchet. One must go. There is no alternative. Nobody can say that "Without going to the guru we can become happy." That is not possible, according to Vedic principle. Even Caitanya Mahaprabhu, although He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He accepted guru. Krsna, the Supreme Personality, He accepted guru. So that is our Vedic principle. The beginning of Bhagavad-gita it is said, evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Imam rajarsi. Rajarsi means great saintly kings. They also accepted a predecessor guru.
imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam
vivasvan manave praha
manur iksvakave 'bravit
[Bg. 4.1]
Everything is there.
So if we actually want to be happy, then we should not live like animals, without any restriction, without any... Even in your state, just to keep proper management of the state, there are so many laws. Even you... As soon as you go on the street, you see there is state law immediately, "Keep to the right." Discipline must be there. That is dharma, discipline, to abide by the state laws. There must be some discipline. Similarly, to make yourself advanced in spiritual life, you must have to observe the discipline. Without discipline, it is not possible. Adau gurvasrayam. Therefore Rupa Gosvami says in his Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu that discipline means, one who observes discipline, he is called disciple. Everyone knows it. Disciple means one who observes discipline. If one does not observe discipline, then he is not a disciple. And one who is not a disciple, his life is chaotic. He cannot be happy. Therefore Vedas say that "You must accept a bona fide guru and become disciplined under his instruction." Then you'll know the higher system of knowledge, the necessity of life, and thus you become happy.
So here it is said that caturbhir yena padair loka-sukhavahaih. Without discipline, without proper understanding of the four principles of life, dharma, artha, kama, moksa, nobody can become happy. Therefore, it is said there that "You know..."
bhavan hi veda tat sarvam
yan mam dharmanuprcchasi
caturbhir vartase yena
padair loka-sukhavahaih
Then next? [break]
Devotees: (chanting synonyms to texts 26–30)
Prabhupada: These things are all mentioned, how the human society can be peaceful and progressive. These are the qualifications. Not like animallike jumping all day and night. Here in Hawaii we see that children, children and elderly persons also, the whole day and night, simply jumping in the sea. Someone is swimming, somebody is doing something else, somebody is swimming. How they're wasting time. But they have taken, "This is civilization. This is civilization." Human life is so important. So many things are to be learned, neither in the school, college, educational institution, society, nothing of the sort. Just like a dog is also jumping, a man is also jumping. This is going on. But that is not civilization. Real civilization means these things are to be acquired in real life, personal life, then that is civilization. Now, these are mentioned one after another. Read.
Pradyumna: (chants synonyms)
Prabhupada: Now, truthfulness is a, nowadays, is a matter of dream only. There is no truthfulness. Everyone is... Beginning from the president and down to the ordinary man in the street, nobody is truthful. Now the president in your country is being questioned so many ways because he has proved himself not truthful. So this is a forgotten story, truthfulness. That is brahminical qualification. All these qualifications are mentioned. It is not possible to acquire all the qualities by one man. That is not possible. Just like we divide some... If there is something to be done, we divide the task, "Mr. You, you do this. And you, you do this. You do this." Similarly, all these qualities must be divided amongst the whole population. Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gita we have got the direction from the Supreme Lord, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. One man cannot be... Suppose a businessman. A businessman, he cannot become strictly truthful. That is not possible. A politician, he cannot become actually truthful. Then the whole business will be spoiled. Everyone... Suppose you go to a store. The storekeeper says, "Oh, you are my dear friend. I will not take any profit from you. I will give you at cost price. You take." So you believe, But actually, how it is possible to give at cost price? How he'll maintain the business establishment? I know that he's speaking untruth, still, I accept, "Oh, he is very truthful." So there are so many things.
So first thing is truth. Therefore... Then truthfulness has to be rejected? No. Another class, the brahmana class, he must be truthful. The idea must be there. Just like in the university, educational department, there is law department. It is not that the whole population of the state becomes lawyers. No. A section of the people may be lawyers. Another section may be other, engineer, medical man. So all these qualifications must remain there. Just like educational system: "Here is law class. Here is botany class. Here is chemist class." Whatever you are prepared to accept, you can accept. But these qualities must be there. The... Not that because it is impossible to become truthful, therefore truthfulness should be rejected altogether. No. One section must be there. That is the qualification of a brahmana, satyam samo damas titiksa arjavam. But these qualities must be there in the society, some way or other. And they should cooperate. That is the perfection of society. Go on.
Pradyumna: (chants synonyms)
Prabhupada: Daya. One must be merciful. Daya means... When a man is suffering a fellow man, another fellow man must feel for it. That is called daya. There are two things: daya and seva. Seva means to give service to the superior, and daya means to give service to the inferior. Both of them are service. Daya, I mean to say... A man is suffering. He is in helpless condition. Just like in hospital, those who are patients, who are diseased, they go to the hospital There is also seva. The nurse is serving. The doctor is serving. But that is not seva. That is called daya. He is not obliged, but out of his compassion, he's giving service to the patient. That is called daya. And seva means superior. Just like spiritual master. Sevaya. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34]. Because the Vedic injunction is that "You must go to a spiritual master." Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Abhigacchet means "must." There is no alternative. If you're actually interested in transcendental knowledge, tad-vijnanam... Tad-vijnanam means transcendental knowledge. Athato brahma jijnasa. And the human life is meant for tad-vijnanam, to understand.
So tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet. So there, how to learn from guru, that is also stated. Tad viddhi: try to learn from him... Tad viddhi pranipatena. First of all surrender yourself. You cannot go to any person for learning anything where there is no sense of surrender. I accept a guru, but in my mind I remain independent, "Oh, why shall I abide by the orders of guru?" That means there is no surrender. There is no surrender. It is false. It is just to satisfy some motive, but that will not help. If you have got any duplicity in your mind, then you'll never be successful in any field of activities. So the process is... Tad viddhi pranipatena [Bg. 4.34]. Must be surrendered. Pranipata means prakrsta-rupena nipata. And therefore, unless you find somebody where you can fully surrender, don't accept guru. That is cheating. Unless you are fully confident that "I am surrendering to this person. He is... Actually he is superior to me. He can give proper knowledge..."
So therefore the process is before accepting a guru, one must hear him at least for one year. And when he's convinced that "Here is actually a guru who can teach me," then you accept him, guru. Don't accept whimsically. This system now should stop that somebody's coming for three days -- "Prabhupada, initiate him." Why? First of all see whether he's fit for becoming a disciple; then recommend. Otherwise, don't recommend. Because the chief recommendation is creating havoc. One is not fit for becoming a student, disciple, and he's accepting discipleship, and after three days he's going away. This should not be allowed. Therefore, in the Bhakti-rasamrta..., er, Hari-bhakti-vilasa by Sanatana Gosvami it is directed that the spiritual master and the disciple must meet together at least for one year so that the disciple may also understand that "Here is a person whom I can accept as my guru," and the guru also can see that "Here is a person who is fit for becoming my disciple." Then the business is nice. Because the business is tad viddhi pranipatena [Bg. 4.34], one must be prepared to surrender. So unless that character is there, surrendering, how he can become a disciple? It is not possible.
So these are very difficult things, but because it is the age of Kali, kalena baliyasa, as we studied yesterday, that kalena va te balinam baliyasa: time is very hard time. Therefore Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said that it is very difficult time, kalau. It is not Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's version; it is the Vedic version. Kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva. Simply chant Hare Krsna mantra. This will clarify your heart. Then you can understand who is guru, where to surrender, where to take lesson. In this way we can make... Haphazardly, if we accept, then there will be failure.
So satyam saucam daya. To accept guru, there is also service. And to give service to an inferior person who is suffering, that is also service. The one service is called daya, and the other service is called seva. So if you want to realize God, then the other service, seva, not daya. You cannot show your mercy to God. God is full. There is no need of your showing mercy. That seva. Two kinds of service. One is called daya, and another is called seva. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah. If you want to know what is God, then the other service, seva. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau. And that service begins from the tongue. Now, generally, when we think of service, we think of our hand and legs, that "By..., I can render service with my hands, with my legs." No. The science of understanding God -- the service begins with the tongue. Just see. Atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih [BRS. 1.2.234]. You cannot understand what is God, what is Krsna, His name, His activities, namadi... Namadi means name, form, qualities, activities, pastimes, entourage, so many things, adi. Therefore... Just like we are chanting Hare Krsna, but we cannot understand what is the meaning of Hare Krsna. We cannot understand. Namadi. Na bhaved grahyam indriyaih. Indriyaih means the senses. There are so many people are hearing this sound vibration, but why they're not becoming Krsna conscious? Because there is no seva, there is no service. Therefore it is said, atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih [BRS. 1.2.234]. But how it will be perceived by the indriyas? Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau. By service. And wherefrom the service begins? It begins jihvadau, beginning with the tongue, beginning with the tongue. This is the service.
So it is a great science, how by tongue... Actually, our, this Krsna consciousness movement is to teach people how to engage the tongue in the service of the Lord. This is Krsna consciousness. We are requesting everyone, "Chant Hare Krsna." That is beginning with tongue. "And take prasadam and go home." That's all. Philosophy later on. Philosophy later on. Because, unless one has got clear brain, unless has actually the senses, purified, one cannot take the lesson of the Krsna consciousness movement. Just like this is philosophy. One cannot understand the lessons which are given in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita... Therefore in the beginning we do not ask anybody, outsider, that "Read Bhagavad-gita or..." No. "Please come, chant with us Hare Krsna." That is required. Chant Hare Krsna and you will feel. You'll feel. Because this method will cleanse your heart. The more you chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra, the more you become fit to understand the philosophy of Krsna consciousness. That is the process. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau.
So anyone who will stop chanting, he will be a victim of maya. Always remember it. Therefore we insist, "Please do not forget to chant at least sixteen rounds." That is minimum. The maximum is 300,000. (laughter) As Haridasa Thakura used to do, three hundred..., not impractical. But you, we cannot do that. Even we cannot complete sixteen rounds. We are so unfortunate. But that does not mean because we are unfortunate, we shall give it up. Try, try, try your best. Then life will become perfect.
So satyam saucam daya ksantis tyagah santosa arjavam. These are the qualities. Now, these qualities, we have to explain one after another, it will take time. So three qualities: satyam, to become truthful... They say, "This truthful is a qualification of ass." Some big politician some years ago, he visited India. You know. He is Mr. Lloyd George, British politician. So he was asked by somebody that "Why you are not truthful?" So he answered that "Truthfulness is the qualification of an ass." He replied like this. Truthfulness, especially in politics, he said, that "In politics, truthfulness is the qualification of an ass." So here the first thing is recommended, satyam, truthfulness. Satyam param dhimahi. And the biggest politician says, "This is the qualification of an ass." Just see how much opportunity we have got to make spiritual progress. The first beginning is satyam, and our leaders says, "This is the qualification of an ass." So just see our position.
Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) Questions? We are dealing with satyam, the qualification of an ass. This is difficulty. Anyway...
Pradyumna: There's a question here.
Prabhupada: Yes?
Bali-mardana: Prabhupada, you were speaking of the quality daya, mercifulness, and you were saying that actually we could not apply this to the Supreme Lord. But I'm thinking perhaps that the cowherd boys, sometimes were they merciful to Krsna by not being too rough with Him?
Prabhupada: They were equal with Krsna, therefore they could show mercy. You are not equal with...
Bali-mardana: Yes.
Prabhupada: Cowherds boy, they were equally on the same level. Although not same level, but they were given the opportunity to speak, to stand, to talk, to eat on the same level with Krsna. Now our position is different. Any other questions?
Devotee (1): Prabhupada? I was wondering about... You were saying before, I heard, that before you start to learn, you must realize that you're not this body and you're spirit soul. Is realization different from knowing that you're spirit soul?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Bali-mardana: He said what is realization of the spirit soul?
Prabhupada: The spirit soul?
Bali-mardana: How does one realize, how does one know that...
Devotee (1): That, that you are...
Satsvarupa: Between theoretically knowing that you are not this body and realizing.
Prabhupada: Ah. Realizing means you can... It is very simple thing, that a living man and a dead man. So you can realize. There was soul so he was living. Now the soul is not there, he's dead. Is there any difficulty? What is the difficulty? Why this man is dead? They may explain, these rascals, in so many ways, but actual, any simple man can understand that there was something, either you call it soul or something else, that is now missing. That soul has now gone. So one minute before, the body was so important, and now, after one minute, the passing of the soul, it is useless. Throw it away. Is it very difficult to understand? That is realization. If you don't realize... Just like a man, sleeping, but he is not sleeping. He's awakened. But a man is calling, "Mr. such-and-such, wake up, wake up." But he's as if sleeping. So people who do not want to realize, there is no realization. Otherwise, it is very simple, very simple. One minute, one can understand, there was something. And then you come to the guru, and guru teaches sastra. From sastra, immediately you can confirm. If you are puzzled that what is that thing that is missing so that this living body is now dead body... This is the general impression. Now, just to get it confirmed, you come to guru. Guru will say, "Yes, it is a fact. The soul was there, and now it has gone." So how guru says? Not guru is manufacturing. Guru says on the strength of sastra. Therefore sadhu-guru-sastra, three things must be there. Guru must be speaking on the strength of Vedic knowledge, not manufacturing. He's a rascal. Guru cannot become by manufacturing nonsense ideas. He's not guru. He's a rascal. Whatever guru will speak must be evidenced by the sastra. That is guru. So you go to guru. So guru will say that "Yes, you're right. The soul was there." How it is right? "No, in sastra." "What is that sastra?" "In Bhagavad-gita it is said, dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara: [Bg. 2.13] asmin dehe, this body, there is the proprietor of this body." That is soul. I love this body because I live in this body. I do not love your body or another's body, but I love my body. Why? Because I live in this body. This is proprietorship. I take care of my apartment because I live in that apartment. I'm not going to take care of your apartment. (laughter) These are common sense. And sastra confirms it, asmin dehe, dehi. Dehi means the proprietor. So in this way you can understand what is the soul. This is realization of the existence of soul. Is it very difficult?
Devotee (1): No.
Prabhupada: Everything is given. Is that clear to everyone?
Devotees: Jaya. Yes.
Prabhupada: That's all? Any other questions? Hm. Thank you. Go on. Chant. (end)
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