"Vedic And Parampara System"

72/11/30 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 2.26



Prabhupada:

atha cainam nitya-jatam
nityam va manyase mrtam
tathapi tvam maha-baho
nainam socitum arhasi
[Bg. 2.26]

So this is the opinion of the modern scientists or the Buddha philosophy, that soul, there is nothing like soul separately, but by combination of matter, at a certain stage, the living symptoms are manifest. And as it is combination of several chemicals, so it is also finished as soon as the body is finished. There is no, nothing as soul. That is their opinion. So for argument's sake, Krsna says, "If you think like that, that the body is all in all..., by certain condition, the material elements combine, and again it is finished..." So Arjuna was declining to fight. So the, for argument's sake, Krsna says that "If you think like that, the body's everything, so it will be destroyed automatically. So why you are so much afraid?" Suppose I have combined some chemicals and it is destroyed... Say, bottles of chemicals, some way or other, it is destroyed. So who laments for that? You can purchase another bottle. That is simply for argument's sake. Actually, that is not the position. Now, if you think that the combination of chemicals can produce living force, then why don't you do it in the laboratory? The chemicals are there. You can combine and just produce a small ant, moving. Then it is... Science means observation and experiment. So if you simply observe, and cannot make any experiment, practical, so then that is not science. That is only theory. That is not possible. No scientist has ever made any living entity by combination of chemicals in the laboratory. Nobody can do that. (pause)

jatasya hi dhruvo mrtyur
dhruvam janma mrtasya ca
tasmad apariharye 'rthe
na tvam socitum arhasi

Jatasya hi dhruvo mrtyuh. "It is a fact that by the cycle of birth and death, one who dies, he has to accept again another body. So why you are deviating from your duty?"

The warfare of the ksatriyas and the warfare at the present moment of the whimsical politicians, it is, they are different. Formerly it was not democracy. Only the ksatriyas would fight. Especially the king, the royal order, they should come forward. Not that the politicians are sitting very comfortably at home, and poor people, they are given to fight in front of the enemy. No. That was not the system. The king must come forward. The other side, the king also come. And the opposite side, they also, he also should come forward and fight. It was duty. And as soon as the king is killed by the other party, then the other party becomes victorious. There was no more fighting. It is not the so-called king and president is sitting very comfortably and the poor soldiers, they are fighting unlimitedly, and the war is going on for many years. Just like last war we saw at least eight years it continued. Eight years, six years, no. The Battle of Kuruksetra, it was finished within eighteen days. There is no use of prolonging the war unnecessarily. If the chief man is killed, then war is finished. Therefore Krsna is advising Arjuna that "Suppose your grandfather on the other side dies, so where is the cause of lamentation? He's old man. He will get another, new body. So you should be rather happy that your old grandfather is going to have a new body." Jatasya hi dhruvo mrtyuh. "And everyone will die. You die today or tomorrow, or, say, fifty years after. You have to die. It is as sure as death. So why should you deviate from your duty? You are a ksatriya. Your duty is to fight. Why you are afraid of being dead, or killing others? This is your duty."

avyaktadini bhutani
vyakta-madhyani bharata
avyakta-nidhanany eva
tatra ka paridevana

So the body was not existing before. And it will not exist after death. So in the via media, if the manifestation of body is there, so why it should be the object of lamentation? In this way, Krsna is trying to convince Arjuna that he should act as ksatriya and perform his duty. A ksatriya is profited, either dead or alive. That will be explained. Because in a, in a fighting, I mean to say, real religious fighting, on principle, it is, a ksatriya is not responsible for killing. Just like in sacrificial ceremony, if the animal is killed, the brahmana is not responsible for killing an animal. So because it is duty, it is ordained by the sastras, therefore they are not ordinary killing. Avyakta-nidhanany eva tatra ka pari... "It was nonmanifested before, and it will become nonmanifested again. So why should you lament for the via media?"

ascaryavat pasyati kascit enam
ascaryavad vadati tathaiva canyah
ascaryavac cainam anyah srnoti
srutvapy enam veda na caiva kascit

There are many theories and philosophical speculation all over the world about understanding the soul. Therefore Krsna is concluding that "Somebody's explaining wonderfully, somebody is hearing wonderfully, but even after hearing and speaking, it remains a mystery, and less intelligent person cannot understand it." That is the fact. There are so many theories. Therefore we have to accept the reality from the authority. By theorizing, by speculating, we cannot come into any decision. I may be very good logician. You may be greater logician. So you can defeat my logic. I can defeat your logic. So what is the conclusion? This kind of talking, it is called ku-tarka, unnecessarily talking, because you'll not come to my decision, I'll not come to your decision. So everyone is mysterious.

So in this way we cannot understand which is beyond the perception of our knowledge. Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet. Things which are beyond our perception, you, we should not simply try to understand by logic and argument. It is useless waste of time, because nobody can decide theory. The modern so-called scientists, they also write like that: "Perhaps," "It may be," like that. "It may be millions of years. It was like this." "It may be." What is the value of saying "It may be." Say definitely. That they cannot do. All the scientists" theory like "Perhaps," "Maybe." "Perchance, if it comes to be true..." So such kind of argument has no value. Therefore our sastra says: acintyah khalu ye bhavah. Beyond your perception, beyond your sense perception, don't try to understand it by argument and logic. Then how to know it? Know it from the person who knows it. That is knowledge. Just like we are trying to get knowledge about the soul, not by experiment, but we are trying to understand from the words of Krsna. Krsna is the authority. So He says, in the beginning: dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. We can... Krsna says, and we can think over it and ponder over it. Then we come to conclusion. And the other process, Vedic process, is:

yasya deve para bhaktir
yatha deve tatha gurau
tasyaite kathita hy arthah
prakasante mahatmanah
[SU 6.23]

Our process is descending process. We are not trying to understand by the ascending process. Inductive or deductive. We accept the statements of the Vedas. Therefore we haven't got to make much effort to understand a thing. Veda-vacana, sruti, sruti-pramana. There are three kinds of evidences: direct perception, and evidence from the Vedas, and evidence from history. Aitihya. Pratyaksa, aitihya, sruti. Three kinds of evidences. So pratyaksa and aitihya is neglected. According to our Vedic system, sruti-pramana, if it is statement, the statement is there in the sruti, in the Vedas, then we accept. We have got a society in India. They call veda-pramana. "We cannot accept without it is not mentioned in the Vedas." That's a, that's nice. But there is another class who are described in the Bhagavad-gita by Krsna Himself: veda-vada-ratah. They are simply unnecessarily fight on the basis of so-called Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge must be understood from the guru. That is injunction. They defy that. They... The Vedic injunction is... Kathopanisad. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You... To understand the Vedas, you must approach a guru. Otherwise, you cannot understand. Just like it is forbidden that without becoming a brahmana, nobody should read Vedas. Because he cannot understand. Unless one is qualified brahmana, unless one has approached another qualified brahmana who knows, there is no question of understanding Vedas. Just like Max Muller translated Veda. What does he know about Veda? Such kinds of translation, understanding, is useless. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Abhigacchet means "He must!" There is not that "I may go or I may not." No, you must. If you really serious. In our vaisnava-parampara also... vaisnava-parampara is actually Vedic parampara. That adau gurvasrayam... Adau gurvasrayam: "To enter into the spiritual life, first thing is first of all to accept a guru." That is... All big, big stalwarts... Even Vyasadeva. Vyasadeva, the wonderful literature. This reading. We are reading Bhagavad-gita. It is Vyasadeva's literature. He heard from Krsna and wrote it. And not only this. The Mahabharata, the Puranas, the Vedanta-sutra, and the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Wonderful literatures. There is no possibility of producing such literature by any scholar of these days. It is not possible. But he accepted guru, Narada, Narada Muni. When, after compiling all the Vedas, and Puranas, even Vedanta-sutra, Vyasadeva was not satisfied himself, he was seeming very morose, at that time, his spiritual master, Narada, came, and he asked that "Why you are morose? You have done so much nice literary work. So why you are not very happy?" So Vyasadeva replied, "Yes, my lord, I am actually not happy, but I cannot understand why I'm not happy. So you know everything. Kindly describe why I'm not happy." So at that time, Narada replied him that "All the literatures you have so far made, they are with reference to the body and the mind. You have nothing described very nicely about the Supreme Soul. So now you try to describe something about the Supreme Lord, about the Supreme Soul. That will make you happy." Therefore he described the Srimad-Bhagavatam. This is the history of Srimad-Bhagavatam. And his last contribution was mature contribution was Vedanta-sutra. So from the Vedanta-sutra, he began writing Srimad-Bhagavata: janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. This is the beginning of Vedanta-sutra. Athato brahma jijnasa. He said, in a different language, jivasya tattva-jijnasa.

So a human life should be engaged inquiring about the Absolute Truth, and he should inquire from a person who, who has heard about the Absolute Truth from a realized person. There is a.... Therefore it is called sruti, parampara, disciplic succession. One... Just like Vyasadeva is hearing from Narada. Narada is authorized. He has heard from Brahma. Brahma has heard from Krsna. So this is the parampara system, disciplic succession. So there are four parampara systems. They are known as, at the present moment, Ramanuja-sampradaya, Brahma-sampra..., Brahma-samprada..., yes, Madhva-sampradaya, Brahma-sampradaya, Madhva-sampradaya, the same, and Rudra-sampradaya and Sri-samp..., Sri, Rama, Kumara-sampradaya. These is four sampradayas. So we should hear from the sampradaya-acarya by disciplic succession. As Krsna recommends in this Bhagavad-gita: evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2].

imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam
vivasvan manave praha
manur iksvakave 'bravit
[Bg. 4.1]

Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. So that is the system. We should receive knowledge by the bona fide, parampara system. Otherwise it may be bogus. Because without parampara system, we cannot understand actual fact. And we have to become in the disciplic succession. We must accept a guru. Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. If you are actually eager, anxious to understand the spiritual science, then you must approach a guru. Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam. Uttama means transcendental subject matter. You cannot learn it. Just like if you purchase one pharmacology book from the bookseller's shop, and if you read, at home, do you mean that you become a medical practitioner, pharmacist? No. You must go to the university, you must go to the college. You must hear the experienced professor and learn it and practically experiment it. Then you can learn. Not that by purchasing a book you become a medical practitioner or lawyer. That is not possible. Therefore the direction is that tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "Must." Here also we see, Krsna in the beginning was talking with Arjuna just like friends. But when Arjuna understood it that "We are talking like friends. So we cannot come into conclusion." The friend, they talk, they argue, they put logic. In that way, we cannot understand. Na tams tarkena yojayet. Then? Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet. So therefore Arjuna surrendered himself: sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Karpanya-dosopahata-svabhavah. "I, I can understand that I am a ksatriya. It is my duty to fight. But in front of my grandfather and relatives, I am declining to fight. Therefore I am affected with karpanya-dosa. I am deviating from my duty. So why I am deviating from this duty? Therefore I am surrendering myself unto You."

So in a position of perplexity, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is the process, Vedic process. Otherwise, it is not possible. And our Sanatana Gosvami, our predecessor, Caitanya Mahaprabhu's direct disciple, he gives his direction that avaisnava-mukhodgirna-puta-hari-kathamrtam, sravanam na kartavyam. He says. He says, "Do not hear from a person who is not a Vaisnava." He must, one must become a Vaisnava. Otherwise his so-called ideas and interpretation has no value. Has no value. Just like in your country, South India, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he has done so many works. But to tell you frankly, it is useless labor. Because he has said in one of his writings that Bhagavad-gita is mental speculation. He is surpassing all the acaryas who came, who appeared in South India. Ramanujacarya appeared in South India, Madhvacarya appeared in South India. Nimbarka appeared in South India. Visnusvami appeared in South India. Sankaracarya appeared in South India. South India is so blessed. And he also appeared in South India. He's decrying all the acaryas. Just see the position. He says, "Bhagavad-gita is a mental speculation." And he has interpreted in a different way. Krsna says that man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. And if you have seen Dr. Radhakrishnan's translation of Bhagavad-gita, he says, "It is not to Krsna." Krsna says directly that man-mana bhava mad-bhaktah. He says, "Not to Krsna." You'll see. So this defect will be there, unless one is sadacara-sampanna-vaisnava, self-realized. Therefore Sanatana Gosvami says, avaisnava-mukhodgirna-puta-hari-kathamrtam. Our first guru is Krsna. To understand Bhagavad-gita... Arjuna is understanding that Bhagavad-gita from Krsna directly. So after understanding Bhagavad-gita, Arjuna accepts Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan, purusam sasvatam adyam [Bg. 10.12]. These are the words. And Arjuna also accepted "It is very, very difficult to understand Your personality."

Now people may say that Arjuna was Krsna's friend. To satisfy his friend, he has accepted Him as param brahma. But that is not the fact. Arjuna gives evidences that "Not only I, but the great authorities like Vyasa, Narada, Asita, Devala, they have also accepted You as the Supreme Personality of Godhead." In the recent ages... This is five thousand years ago. Even one thousand, five hundred... Sankaracarya, who is impersonalist, he has also accepted Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sa bhagavan svayam krsna. He has written in his commentary on the Bhagavad-gita: narayanah avyakta, avyaktat, para avyaktat. Narayanah para avyaktat. "Narayana is not a creation of this material world. He's transcendental." He has accepted. And what to speak of the Vaisnava acaryas, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, all. They have written so many nice commentaries on the Bhagavad-gita, Brahma-sutra, establishing that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsna is speaking as person. And He is warning the rascals: avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam [Bg. 9.11]. "Because I am speaking as a human being, the rascals, they deride." Param bhavam ajanantah. They do not know what is My influence, what is My power."

So this Personality of Godhead... It is a fact. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The last word is Bhagavan. From Bhagavan, the expansion is Paramatma, localized aspect. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese arjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. That is expansion. Ekamsena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. That is one of the plenary portions. Vistabhya aham. He enters within this universe, and therefore the universe becomes manifest. Just like I am soul, dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13], I enter into this body. You enter into your body. Therefore the body expands. Similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead enters as Garbhodakasayi Visnu within each and every universe. Then it becomes manifest. So there is no question of impersonal. The original source is person. Krsna says,

aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
budha bhava-samanvitah
[Bg. 10.8]

Budha, not the abudha. Abudha means less intelligent. Those who are intelligent, budha bhava-samanvitah, with a bhava, with an ecstatic position, can understand that Krsna is the original person. Aham sarvasya prabhavah [Bg. 10.8]. Sarvasya means including Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara, all the devatas. Aham adir hi devanam [Bg. 10.2]. He is the original source of all the devas. The original devas within this... Brahma is the first deva in the first creation. (aside:) What is that? So aham adir hi devanam. The Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara. So He's the origin of Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara. From Krsna, for material creation, there are three Purusas. First of all, three purusas. Not directly from Krsna. From Krsna, Baladeva. From Baladeva, catur-vyuha: Sankarsana, Vasudeva, Sankarsana, Pradyumna, Aniruddha. Then from Sankarsana, Sankarsana, Narayana. Then second catur-vyuha. From the second catur-vyuha, Sankarsana, the purusa-avataras. Three purusa-avataras, three Visnus: Karanodakasayi, Garbhodakasayi, and Ksirodakasayi Visnu. So the, in the Vedic literature all these informations are there. And as Krsna says, personally, also... Arjuna accepted that "I accept, on the authority of Vyasadeva, Narada, Devala, Asita, You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and You also speaking directly. Then where is my doubt?"

So we should follow... This is called parampara system. As Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gita, if we understand in that way, then we are perfect. I may be imperfect, but because I understand Bhagavad-gita as it was understood by Arjuna, I am perfect. Because the knowledge I am distributing, that is not imperfect. Just like a post peon. A post peon is delivering you one thousand dollars. So he may be poor man, but the one thousand dollars, he is delivering, that is a fact. That is not bogus thing. Because he has not manufactured something. He has received that money order from the post office. He's asked to deliver it to such and such person. His honesty is to deliver the money order as it is to the bona fide person. That is his perfection. He doesn't require... Because he's delivering one thousand dollars, he doesn't require to become a very rich man. He may be a poor man. Similarly, a guru, a guru is perfect when he delivers the words of the superior authority as it is. Then he's perfect. He may be imperfect in your estimation. But that is his perfection, that he is not misleading people by becoming a so-called rascal scholar and interpreting in a different way and misleading the whole population. That is perfection. People say so much about me, that I have done some wonderful thing. But I say that I am not a magician. I'm not a magician. My only credit is that I am presenting Krsna as He is. That's all. I am not diluting Krsna. That is not my business. And therefore, because it is pure, pure ghee, therefore everyone accepts. And if you place dalda, mixing with ghee some rascal thing, then nobody will accept. Therefore, so many swamis went before me in the Western countries, and they presented adulterated, and there was not a single person became a krsna-bhakta. Now, by thousands they are becoming. Why? Because it is presented pure thing. Pure thing will be accepted everywhere. I give this example. In a, in Delhi, there is... I have seen. One, there is confectioner's shop. He rigidly prepares in pure ghee all the sweetmeats. So you'll find always hundreds of customers there. And there are by the side of that... Dalda manufacture. It is not... People are still prepared to pay sufficiently if you give pure thing. So our this Krsna consciousness movement is presenting Bhagavad-gita as it is. We have not manufactured anything. While I started this movement in America, some friend suggested that "You are writing ‘International Society for Krishna Consciousness.' Why not make it ‘God consciousness.' It will be accepted by everyone." God is Krsna. There must, there must be clearly stated: "Krishna consciousness." I don't mind if nobody accepts it, but there must be ‘Krsna.'

So actually it is very happy that Western countries, they are accepting Krsna. Why not? Krsna is for everyone. Krsna is Go... Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He says, aham bija-pradah pita, sarva-yonisu kaunteya: [Bg. 14.4] "In all forms of life, the living entities, they are My part and parcel. They are my sons. I am the father, original." Bija-pradah pita. So why Krsna will not be accepted? And actually that is happening. They are coming from different groups, but because very one of us is Krsna's son, Krsna's part and parcel, therefore simply it requires a little attentive hearing about Krsna. Sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adhah [Brs. 1.2.234]. In the Caitanya-caritamrta it is said, sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Krsna is there, in everyone's heart. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam [Bg. 18.61]. But we do not know. But Krsna and Krsna consciousness can be awakened simply by hearing from the realized person. Satam prasangan mama virya-samvido bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah kathah [SB 3.25.25]. Satam prasangat. From the lips of devotees, when it is heard, then it becomes hrt-karna-rasayana. It becomes very pleasing to the ear and to the heart. Taj-josanat, if one cultivates in that way, asu apavarga-vartmani sraddha bhaktir ratir anukramisyati. These are the formulas.

So the process should be to receive the knowledge by disciplic succession, not sporadically hearing sometimes this scholar, hearing sometimes this scholar. "I interpret in my scholarship." No. This thing will not. Our process is, as directed by Sanatana Gosvami, avaisnava-mukhodgirna-puta-hari-kathamrtam. Hari-katha is amrta. Amrta. But still, it should not be received when it is uttered by some avaisnava. There is another direction: avaisnavo gurur na sa syat. Sat-karma-nipuno vipro mantra-tantra-visaradah. A person, a brahmana, sat-karma-nipunah. Brahmana's business is become to become scholar and to make others scholar. Pathana pathana yajana yajana. He must be a worshiper and he must teach others how to worship. Pathana pathana yajana yajana dana pratigraha. Brahmana should receive charity and he makes immediately distribute the charity. So these, these are the occupational duty of brahmana. Pathana pathana. Sat-karma, sat-karma-nipunah. A brahmana, he is very expert in his business, sat-karma. Sat-karma-nipuno mantra-tantra-visaradah. And he has read the Vedic literatures and tantras very nicely. Visarada. Still, if he's not a Vaisnava, then avaisnava gurur na sa syat. By that only qualification, that he's not a Vaisnava, he cannot become guru, whereas, on the other hand, sad-vaisnavah sva-pacah guru. If a person, sva-pacah... Sva-pacah means coming of the family of dog-eaters, candala, if he has become a Vaisnava, sadacara-sampanna-vaisnava, sa guruh syat. You can accept him as guru. There are so many instances. Sriman Ramanujacarya's guru was not from a brahmana family, but still, he accepted guru.

So in the Vaisnava literature... Just like Haridasa Thakura. Haridasa Thakura, we give "Jaya, Thakura Haridasa Thakura ki jaya." We say. This Haridasa Thakura was born in a Mohammedan family. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu made him namacarya, Srila Haridasa Thakura. He was chanting Hare Krsna mantra daily three hundred thousands of times. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu selected him, namacarya. Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself came to broadcast the glory of Hare Krsna maha-mantra. So instead of becoming Himself the acarya, He designated Haridasa Thakura as acarya. And similarly, Sri Sanatana Gosvami, Srila Rupa Gosvami, they also became Mohammedans. They were born in Hindu, sarasvata-brahmana family, but due to their association as minister of the then Muslim government, they were rejected from the brahmana society. Formerly, the brahmana society was very strict. Anyone becoming serving, serving, servant, he is immediately excluded: "Oh, you cannot become a brahmana. You are serving." In the Srimad-Bhagavatam also, by the, spoken by Narada, he says a brahmana, if he's in difficulty, he should not accept the business of a dog, service. He should not accept service. He may go to the profession of a ksatriya, or even up to vaisya. Not of a sudra. These are the injunctions. So they were strictly being followed. These Sanatana Gosvami, they were very learned scholars, in Sanskrit, in Arabic language, Persian language, but because they accepted the ministership of Nawab Hussain Shah, immediately they were rejected. And they changed their name. Almost they became Muslim. Sakara Mallika, Dabhir Kasa. Their name was that. These are Mohammedan names. So they were living like that. But when Caitanya Mahaprabhu blessed them, they became the first-class gosvamis: Rupa Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mercy. And He therefore said, prthivite ache yata nagaradi-grama. He asked to spread this Krsna consciousness movement all over the world, in every village, in every town. Does he mean that let them become sudras? Let them remain sudras, and they become Krsna conscious? No. He did not mean like that. That means everywhere there should be Vaisnava. And a Vaisnava means above brahmana. That is the Krsna consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. [break]

(answering question:) Because you are here. It is for you. For us. You means you, me. Because we wanted to enjoy, we became, we wanted to lord it over the material nature, therefore God has given you the facility that "You enjoy." But just to make you convinced that we cannot enjoy, we become enjoyed... This conviction, when you come to this conviction, that we cannot enjoy, we become enjoyed, at that time, we seek after God. That is natural. Athato brahma jijnasa. So God has created this material world because we wanted it. That is the philosophy... [break] ...your opinion, why God has created? Eh?

Indian: No, I am not... (too faint)

Prabhupada: But the... No, the trouble must be there because God has created this world for your enjoyment and for my enjoyment, there therefore must be struggle. Because I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me. So why there shall not be trouble? Because everyone, if everyone... Just like in office, if everyone wants to become the proprietor, will not there be confusion and chaos? Do you think the office will go on nicely? Similarly, here, God has given you chance to become master because you wanted, but everyone wants to be master. There is chaos. How there can be harmony when everyone wants to become God? Do you think it is all right? There must be chaos. Here is the position. Everyone in the material world, first of all, they want to become big man, big businessman, big, big this, big that, minister, president, and when everything is failure, then he wants to become God. That is the last snare of maya. So this is going on. How you can expect peace and prosperity here? That is not possible. Duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. It is stated by Krsna Himself that this is a place only for misery, but under the influence of maya, we are accepting all miserable conditions of life as happiness. This is called maya.

Indian: Who is a real brahmana?

Prabhupada: Who is qualified. Satya sama dama titiksa arjava astikyam jnanam vijnanam. When one has acquired all these qualities, then he becomes brahmana.

Indian: Caitanya Mahaprabhu (Hindi)...

Prabhupada: [break]...come to Krsna consciousness. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate. Mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. Unless we come to that platform of bhakti-yoga and become re-related, not related, again revive our Krsna consciousness, we, there cannot be equality. That is not possible. There must be distinction, some higher class, some middle class, some lower class. Even in European countries, there are, in America there are, so are in India. So it is not very astonishing. Because the whole world is being conducted, the whole material nature is being conducted by the three gunas, and anyone associating with a particular type of guna, he must suffer or enjoy according to that gunas. Jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. Tamasa, they, those who are in the tamasika-guna, they go adhah. Madhye tisthanti rajasah. And via media, those who are in touch with the rajo-guna. And urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah: [Bg. 14.18] those who are in the goodness, they go up, in the upper platform of the society or in the universe. But Krsna says, abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Either you go even to the Brahmaloka, one day you have come to the hellish loka. This is the way. So some, cakravat parivartante sukhani ca duhkhani ca. Just like the wheel turns round, sometimes up, sometimes down, so this is the position of this material world. There is no question of lamenting. You cannot say, "These people are suffering and that people are enjoying." The man who is enjoying, he'll also suffer next moment. This is going on, suffering and enjoying. Unless we come to Krsna consciousness, there is no way of coming out of this duality of this world. This is duality. Everything you'll find in dual. Unless there is happiness, you cannot understand what is distress. And unless there is distress, you cannot understand happiness. You cannot understand light unless there is darkness. So this is the world of darkness and light, so-called light. You have to transcend. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. So we have to make arrangement. That facility is there to every human being, how he can get out of this world of duality and come to the transcendental platform which is called avyabhicarini-bhakti-yoga.

mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]

That is required. [break]

Indian: ...to know how to awaken kundalini, and how to have permanent state of awakened kundalini.

Prabhupada: Chant Hare Krsna. (laughter) That's all. [break] Thank you.

Indian: ... Carvaka not to believe God at all.

Prabhupada: Eh? What is that?

Indian: Carvaka, Carvaka...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian: And what was... And second thing, the god among the dasavataras, Buddha accepted, supposed to be one avatara. Buddha never told any idol worship, or any Rama and Krsna worshiping. And particularly one avatara, another avatara and this avadhuta. Or holy place. And will never accept in such a way, how to believe and what to believe and what is the temples.

Prabhupada: So you reject everything. (laugher) That's all right. That is the way. That is very nice process. You reject everything. Because you are doubt in everything, so you reject everything. That's all right.

Indian: Even Lord Buddha... [break] ...these are the contradictory.

Prabhupada: Hm. Therefore our philosophy is acintya-bhedabheda-tattva. Acintya, inconceivable. Just like you are trying to conceive that whole world is God, and still, God is not there. That is spoken by God Himself, Krsna: mat-sthani sarva-bhutani naham tesu avasthitah [Bg. 9.4]. Maya tatam idam, avyakta-murtina. So this impersonal feature, brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti [SB 1.2.11], the impersonal feature is Brahman. Sarvam khalv idam brahma. That means sarvedam akhilam jagat, parasya brahmanah saktih sarvedam akhilam jagat. Just like the sunshine. You are in the sunshine. That is a practical faith. The sunshine is not different from the sun. The sun is ninety-three millions of miles away, but still, because you are in the sunshine, you are in sun. Can you deny it? That is the thing. You are in the sunshine. The sunshine is not different from the sun. But still, it is not the sun. This is the philosophy, inconceivably, simultaneously one and different. The sunshine is not different from the sun, but still, it is different. Similarly, the whole manifested, the cosmic manifestation is God, but still He is..., it is not God. This is, therefore it is called inconceivable, acintya. With our teeny brain, we cannot accommodate how it is one and different. Therefore it is called acintya. Acintya-bhedabheda: different and separate, simultaneously. Everything. Idam hi visvo bhagavan ivetarah. The whole world is Bhagavan, but it appears different from Bhagavan. So how? To a maha-bhagavata, who understands actually what is Bhagavan, he does not see any difference. Because he, everywhere he sees his worshipable Deity, Krsna. He does not see anything. I am seeing a tree, but a devotee is seeing tree: "Oh, it is the energy of Krsna." Immediately he remembers Krsna and worships Him. So this is higher stage of realization of God, how the inconceivable things, simultaneously one and different, can be perceived. Therefore, there are three stages of devotional life, kanisthadhikari, madhyamadhikari, and uttamadhikari. So to become uttamadhikari, it is not so easy, but we are generally in the kanisthadhikari. But we shall try to come to the madhyamadhikari. Then our life will be successful.

Indian: That is correct, Swami. As you have told, he said we have no suffering. He suffered for others. We should not condemn them. We should pray to the Lord that we may take...

Prabhupada: No. No devotee condemns anything. But when he does not... Just like when..., father always gives, always merciful to his son, but if the son is very obstinate, he gives him a slap. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.26 -- Hyderabad, November 30, 1972

"Relieving Our Bodily Burden"

73/08/28 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.25


Devotee:

avyakto 'yam acintyo 'yam
avikaryo 'yam ucyate
tasmad evam viditvainam
nanusocitum arhasi
[Bg. 2.25]

"It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable, immutable, and unchangeable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body."

Prabhupada: They are going? So why don't...? No prasada?

avyakto 'yam acintyo 'yam
avikaryo 'yam ucyate
tasmad evam viditvainam
nanusocitum arhasi
[Bg. 2.25]

So Krsna began this teaching to Arjuna first of all, asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg. 2.11]. "You are talking like learned scholar, but you are lamenting on the body, which is not at all important." Nanusocanti. Here also the same thing. Tasmad evam viditvainam, this body, na anusocitum arhasi. Do not be very much serious about this body. The soul is the subject matter to be considered. But the modern civilization, they are concerned with this body. Just the opposite. Krsna says: Because the soul is immortal, therefore tasmad evam viditva, understanding of this principle, enam, this body, na anusocitum arhasi. The real factor is the soul. We have to take care of the soul, not of the body. So far body is concerned, there are pains and pleasure like climatic changes. Agamapayinah anityah, such bodily pains and pleasures come and go; they are not permanent. Tams titiksasva bharata. So you have to learn how to tolerate these bodily pains and pleasures, but you have to take care of the soul. But the modern civilization, they have no knowledge of the soul, what to speak of taking care of it, and, like animals, they are in the bodily concept of life, taking much care of the body, but they have no information of the soul, and what to speak of taking care of it.

This is the lamentable condition of modern civilization. Animal civilization. The animals simply take care of the body, has no information of the soul. So this civilization is animal civilization, mudha. Mudha means animal, asses. Now if we say to the people in general they'll be angry upon us, but actually this is the position. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. I've several times explained this verse. Yasya atma-buddhih. Atma means self; buddhi, has taken this body as self. Yasyatma-buddhih. But what is this body? The body is nothing but a bag of tri-dhatu, kapha, pitta, vayu, and its by-products. By mucus, bile and air, by interaction of these three things... Just like this material world, this house. What is this house? Tejo-vari-mrdam vinimayah. Anything in this material world, what is that? Tejo-vari-mrdam vinimayah. An exchange of fire, water, and earth. Tejo-vari-mrdam vinimayah. Exchange. You take earth, you take water, mix them, and put it into the fire, it becomes brick, then powder it, it becomes cement, then again combine them, it becomes a big skyscraper building. So as this material world, anything you take, it is simply a combination of these three ingredients, plus air and sky for drying. Air is required for drying. So combination of the five elements. Similarly, this body is also combination of five elements. There is no difference. But because in the big skyscraper building there is no soul, it stands in one place, but the body has got the soul, therefore it moves. That is the difference. The soul is the important thing. But they do not know. Just like we have manufactured the airplane and there is no soul, but another soul means the pilot. He takes care of it. He drives. Therefore, it is moving. So without soul, there cannot be any movement. Either the thing must have soul or some other soul will take care of it. Then it will move. Therefore, the important is the soul, not this material body.

So anyone who's accepting this material body as very important... Just like the other day, some rascals came. They were very much eager for feeding this body. Those who are starving, starvation... Starvation of the bodily concept of life. But there is spiritual starvation. That we are not taking care. Material starvation may be there, but actually that is not a problem because there is sufficient arrangement for maintaining this material body. Real starvation is of the soul. The soul is not getting spiritual food. Here, in this meeting, this is meant for giving to the starving spirit soul. And as soon as you get some spiritual food, then we become happy. That is the situation. Yayatma suprasidati. Unless you get spiritual food there cannot be satisfaction of the real soul. The same example, within the cage there is the bird. If you simply wash the cage very nicely and cover it and paint it and the bird within the cage is crying, starving... What is this civilization? Similarly, we spirit soul, we have been encaged within this body, so our natural aspiration is to get freedom from this encagement. As much as the bird is struggling to get freedom from the cage. Similarly, we are also, we are not happy being encaged. Yesterday we learned from Bhagavad-gita soul's position is sarva-gatah. Soul can go anywhere. That is, it has got the freedom. Those who are spiritually advanced by yogic mystic power, they can also move anywhere he likes. Anima, laghima siddhi. There are still yogis in India who early in the morning takes bath in four dhamas: Hardwar, Jagannatha Puri, Ramesvaram, and Dvaraka. There are still yogis. Within one hour, they'll take bath in four places. Sarva-gatah, the speed. They'll sit down in one place and by yogic process within few minutes will get up and dip in here, in this water. Suppose in London you dip, take your dip in the Thames River, and when you get up you see in Calcutta Ganges. There is yogic process like that. Sarva-gatah. So the spirit soul has got so much freedom, sarva-gatah, anywhere he likes he can go. But this impediment is this body which is checking our freedom. So if you get rid of this material body and be situated in spiritual body... Just like Narada Muni, he can move anywhere, he's moving, his business is moving. Sometimes he's going to Vaikunthaloka or sometimes coming to this material loka. He has got spiritual body, he's free to move anywhere, spaceman. They are trying to travel in the space by machine. There is no necessity of machine. Yantrarudhani mayaya [Bg. 18.61]. The machine is made of maya. But you have got your own power. That is very speedy. So it is being checked. Therefore one should be very much careful how to get the soul out of this encagement of this material body. That should be our first concern. But those who are simply concerned with this body, they are no better than the animals, cows and asses. Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13].

yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke
sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih
yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij
janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah
[SB 10.84.13]

Go-kharah. Go-kharah means asses and cows.

So this civilization, modern civilization, having no information of the soul, it is simply a pack of animals only, that's all. Therefore they do not care what is the resultant action of their activities, they do not care for pious, piety and vicious activities. They take everything... That is asuric civilization. Pravrttim ca nivrttim ca na vidur asura-janah. Asura-jana means these rascals or asuras, atheists, fools, rascals, they do not know pravrtti and nivrtti. Pravrtti means in which subject matter we should take interest, that is called pravrtti. And nivrtti means in which subject matter we shall not take interest, or we shall try to give it up. The asura-jana, they do not know. Just like we have got pravrtti inclination, loke vyavaya amisa mada-seva nityasya jantuh. Every living entity has got materially... There are two natures, spiritual and material. Materially, the inclination of sex enjoyment and eating meat -- amisa, amisa means eating meat, flesh and fish, like that. That is called amisa.

Nonvegetarian means niramisa. So amisa and mada and vyavaya. Vyavaya means sex. Loke vyavaya amisa mada-seva. Sex indulgence and eating meat, flesh, eggs, and drinking wine. Mada. Mada means liquor. Nityasya jantuh. Jantu. When one is in the material world he is called jantu. Jantu means animal. Although he's living entity, he's not called jiva soul. He's called jantu. Jantur dehopapattaye. Jantu. This material body is developing for the jantu, animal. Anyone who is devoid of spiritual knowledge, he's called jantu, or animal. This is the shastric injunction. Jantur dehopapattaye. Who gets this material body? Jantu, animal. So, so long we shall get on, continually get or change this material body, we remain jantu, animal. Klesada asa dehah. A jantu, animal, can tolerate, or he's forced to tolerate. Just like a bullock yoked in the cart and whipping. He has to tolerate. He cannot get out of it. Similarly, when they are taken to slaughterhouse to be killed, he has to tolerate it. There is no way. This is called jantu.

So those who have surrendered to the material nature, he has to suffer. He has to suffer. There is no way out. You have accepted this body. You must suffer. Klesada asa dehah. This material body means suffering. So they do not know this. They are making so many arrangements and plans how to become happy, how to become peaceful without any miserable condition, but the rascals, they do not know that so long you have got this material body -- either a king's body or an ant's body -- you must have to suffer. They do not know. Therefore Krsna says here that you take care of the soul. Tasmad evam. Tasmad evam viditva. Just try to understand the soul is important. You haven't got to lament for this body. This is already settled up. So much suffering, so much comforts, you'll get. Although the body, material body... Because the material body is also created according to the three qualities. Karanam guna-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu [Bg. 13.22]. When the inquiry is that why one has got the king's body and why he has got, one has got the pig's body. There are so many other bodies, 8,400,000 different types of bodies. So why the difference is there? That difference is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Karanam. Karanam means cause. Why these varieties are..., karanam guna-sango 'sya. Asya, jivasya. He is associating with different kinds of qualities, and therefore he's getting a different type of body. Karanam guna-sango 'sya.

Therefore our business should be not to associate with the material qualities. Even up to goodness. Material quality, goodness means the brahminical quality. Sattva sama damas titiksa. So devotional service is transcendental to these good qualities also. In this material world, if somehow or other, he has got the birth in a brahmana family or he's executing his duties exactly a strict brahmana, still he's conditioned under the laws of this material nature, still. And what to speak of others, those who are in the modes of passion and ignorance. Their position is most abominable. Jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah: Those who are in the modes of ignorance, jaghanya, very abominable condition. So at the present moment... That is sudra. Kalau sudra-sambhavah. In this age of Kali, everyone is in the modes of ignorance. Sudra. They do not know because they have no... One who know that "I am spirit soul; I am not this body," he is brahmana. And one who does not know, he is sudra, krpana. Etad vidita praye sa brahmana. Everyone dies, that's all right, but one who dies after knowing the spiritual truth... Just like here, the students who are trying to understand what is spiritual life, and, somehow or other, if he understands that he's spirit soul, at least, then he becomes brahmana. He becomes brahmana. Etad vidita. And one who does not understand, he is krpana. Krpana means miser. Brahmana means liberal. These are the shastric injunctions.

So first of all, we have to become brahmana. Then Vaisnava. Brahmana simply knows that "I am spirit soul," aham brahmasmi. Brahma janati iti brahmana. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. By such knowledge one becomes prasannatma. Means relieved. As you feel relief... When there is burden on your head, and the burden is taken away you feel relieved, similarly, this ignorance that "I am this body" is a great burden, a burden upon us. So when you get out of this burden, then you feel relieved. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. Means when actually one understands that "I am not this body; I am soul," then he has to work so hard for maintaining this body, so he gets relief that "Why I am working so hard for this lump of material things? Let me execute my real necessity of life, spiritual life." That is great relief. That is great relief. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. The relief means there is hankering, no more lamentation. These are the brahma-bhutah.

So our actual business is to become brahma-bhutah. So who can become? That is explained already. Krsna has already explained that, what is that verse? Yam hi na vyathayanty ete. Vyathayanti, does not give pain. Material, material burden, that is always troublesome. Even this body. This is also another burden. We have to carry it. So when one is not disturbed by this bodily pain and pleasure... There is no pleasure, simply pain. Here, pleasure means a little absence of pain. Just like you have got a boil here. What is called? Boil? Phora? So it is always painful. And by some medical application, when the pain is little relieved, you think that "Now it is happiness." But the boil is there. How you can be happy? So here, actually there is no happiness, but we think we have discovered so many counteraction. Just like there is disease. We have discovered medicine. We have discovered medical college. Manufacturing, big, big physician, M.D., a pharmacist(?) But that does not you'll live. No, you'll have to die, sir. So the boil is there. A little application of temporary medicine, it may... Therefore there is no happiness at all in this material world. Therefore Krsna said that, "Why you are feeling happy? You have to die, after all, which is not your business. You are eternal, but still you have to accept death." Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. This is your real problem.

But these rascals they do not know. They think death is natural -- after death everything is finished. Now so long I am not dying, let me enjoy. Rnam krtva ghrtam pibet. Enjoyment means... According to our Indian system, their enjoyment is not meat-eating as in the Western countries. Their enjoyment is eating ghee more, become chubby, fatty. That is their enjoyment. So Carvaka Muni recommended, "Now eat ghee and enjoy life." Kacuri, samosa, all made of ghee preparation. Then "I have no money, sir. Where shall I get ghee?" Rnam krtva. "Beg, borrow, steal, get ghee." Somehow or other, black market, white market, any way. Bring money and ghee, that's all. Rnam krtva ghrtam pibet. "Eat as much possible ghee." Rnam krtva ghrtam pibet yavad jivet sukham. Jivet. Sukham jivet. "So long you live, live merrily, very nicely." That is the theory of all the European philosophers. Live merrily. But the philosopher at the end becomes paralyzed. His merriness is finished. Who is that philosopher has become paralyzed? So they make all these theories. Not only European philosophers, another philosopher in India, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he is now brain paralyzed.

So they do not understand that there is a controller. We may theorize and so many ways of our happy life. But you cannot be happy, sir, so long you have got this material body. That's a fact. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. Therefore intelligent persons, they should be... Krsna is making everyone intelligent: "You rascal, you are under the bodily concept of life. Your civilization has no value. It is rascal civilization." Here is the point,

yam hi na vyathayanty ete
purusam purusarsabha
sama-duhkha-sukham dhiram
so 'mrtatvaya kalpate

Your problem is how to be reestablished again as eternal. Because we are eternal. Some way or other, we have fallen in this material world. Therefore, we have to accept birth and death. So our problem is how to again be eternal. That is amrtatva. But these rascals, they do not know that there is possibility of becoming eternal. Simply by trying to understand Krsna, one can become immortal. Janma karma ca me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. Simply try to understand Krsna, what is Krsna. Then tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Simply by understanding Krsna, even you don't serve Krsna. If you serve, then you are already liberated. If you simply philosophically try to understand the position of Krsna. But no, the mudhas, the rascals, they'll say: "We accept Krsna as a great man. We don't accept Krsna as God." The Arya-samajis say. All right if you accept a great man, great personality, why don't you accept his teaching, huh? Then what kind of accepting a great personality? If you actually accept Krsna as a great personality, at least you must follow the instruction of Krsna. And know.(?) That also they'll not do. And still they are Arya-samaj. Arya means advancing party. They are degrading party. Real advancing party is Krsna conscious persons, the devotees of Krsna. They're Aryan. Just like Arjuna, when he was trying to neglect the instruction of Krsna, "Sir, I'll not fight," He said, anarya-justam. Anyone who disobeys the instruction of Krsna, he's anaryan. And one who obeys the instruction of Krsna, he's Aryan. That is the distinction. Therefore, the so-called Arya-samaj, they disobey the instruction of Krsna, and still they claim to be Aryan. Actually they are anaryan. Anarya-justam. These things are in the Bhagavad-gita.

So nanusocitum arhasi. Krsna here has said, "You are eternal. Your business is how to achieve that eternal position, and, so far the body is concerned, antavanta ime dehah, this is destructible. So you should not be very much serious about this body." This is the distinction between the Vedic civilization, Aryan civilization. Vedic civilization means Aryan. And anaryan civilization. Anaryan civilization means bodily concept of life, and Aryan civilization means spiritual concept of life, how to make spiritually advancement. That is real civilization. Those who are compact in the thought of bodily comforts of life, they are all anaryas, and that is now deprecated, nanusocitum arhasi: "Don't lament on these immaterial things."

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.25 -- London, August 28, 1973

"Transfer Your Love To Krsna"

72/11/29 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 2.25


Prabhupada:

avyakto 'yam acintyo 'yam
avikaryo 'yam ucyate
tasmad evam viditvainam
nanusocitum arhasi
[Bg. 2.25]

So in so many different ways, Krsna is convincing how the spirit soul is immortal. In different ways. Avyakto 'yam. It is not manifest to the blunt material eyes. We cannot see, Because as we have explained several times, the magnitude of the soul is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, very small. I think, smaller than the atom. That spirit soul is everywhere. Sarva-ga. Sarva-gata. Everywhere. Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. And wherever the spirit soul is there within this material world, he has got a body and there is heart, and within that heart, Krsna is also there. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese arjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. Both of them, living there. Therefore anor aniyan mahato mahiyan. Krsna can become greater than the greatest and the smaller than the smallest. This is God.

When Krsna was playing as a child, He ate earth and the playmates complained to mother Yasoda: "Mother, your son Krsna is eating earth." Mother Yasoda called for explanation: "Krsna, why You are eating earth? I have given You sandesa." Krsna said, "No, mother, I have not eaten." "No, Your friends are complaining." "No, they have become My enemies this morning. We had some quarrel. Therefore they have combined together to make Me chastised by you." So in this way... Then mother Yasoda wanted to solve this problem: "All right, show Your mouth, open Your mouth. I want to see." And when Krsna opened the mouth, the mother saw innumerable universes are within the mouth. This is Krsna. Anor aniyan mahato mahiyan. Krsna enters within the universe, but at the same time, millions of universes are within His mouth. This is the explanation of "the greater than the greatest and the smaller than the smallest." Of course, mother Yasoda, although she saw, she could not believe it because mother Yasoda never thought of that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She always thought that "He is my teeny child." That's all. "I have to take care of Him." This is called paternal feelings. Vatsalya-rasa.

Krsna is served by the devotees in so many rasas, transcendental mellow, or humor. Somebody is serving as servant. Somebody is serving as friend. Somebody is serving as father and mother. Somebody is serving as conjugal lover. These are five primary mellows in which a devotee is connected with Krsna. And there are other, seven rasas also. They are not primary; secondary. Somebody is serving Krsna as enemy. Just like the asuras. They also serve Krsna -- as enemy. Somebody is serving, giving pleasure to Krsna, by fighting with Him. So there are so many, twelve rasas. Akhila-rasamrta-sindhu. All the rasas that we have got experience within this world, they are coming from Krsna. Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. The Vedanta-sutra says, "Everything, whatever we see within our experience, we cannot experience anything if it is not in Krsna." That is Krsna. He was stealing, which we consider not very good business. That stealing is also in Krsna. He's, He's famous as Makhana-cora, the stealer of butter. So this is Krsna. So everything is there. Whatever our dealings in this material world we find, that is only perverted reflection of our dealing with Krsna in the spiritual world. But those who are unaware of the spiritual world, impersonalists, they have no information that Krsna is always busy. Jaya radha-madhava kunja-bihari. He's always busy. He's person. But He is simply dear to the gopijana. Gopijana-vallabha. He wants to please the gopijanas. The gopis, the cowherd boys and the gopis, constant companion of Krsna.

So this is sanatana. Krsna is sanatana, and His dealing with His devotees, that is also sanatana. And these are possible not here, but in the sanatana-dhama. We cannot have sanatana dealings with Krsna within this material world. Therefore Krsna comes to canvass the conditioned souls that "For eternal happiness, for eternal dealings, you come to Me in My eternal place." Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama [Bg. 15.6]. Why not in this material world? No. The material world, the nature is it is not permanent. It is temporary. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. Janmady asya [SB 1.1.1]. Janmadi. Everything here in this material world has a date of birth, and anything which has a date of birth must be a date of death also. That is the nature of this material world. So here we can practice what is sanatana-dharma, but actually sanatana-dharma is executed in the spiritual world. So just like one is trained up to become apprentice in some business and when he's trained up, then he's given the post. So we get this information from the gosvamis, sanatana-gosvamis, that those who are devotees, those who are perfected in the training of devotional service, they are first of all given birth in the universe where Krsna is present. Krsna is always present. Just like the sun is present always in the sky, but we can see the sun in some opportune moment. But sun is always there. When the sun is set, it is set in my vision, but sun is there. When it is night, I cannot see the sun, but the sun is there. Similarly, Krsna is always there. We have to make our eyes to see Him. That's all. And that, how that eyes are made?

premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti
yam syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.38]

Only the devotees who have loving affection for Krsna, who has developed loving propensity... The loving propensity's there already. But we have transferred, the loving propensity to Krsna, we have transferred the loving propensity to the maya.

So whole Krsna consciousness process is again transferring the loving propensity from maya to Krsna. This is the simple method. We have got love for Krsna, but being illusioned, being falsely positioned, we are trying to love something which is not Krsna. maya, Krsna's maya, illusion. Mama maya. Krsna says, "Maya is also Mine." Just like the cloud. What is this cloud? This is also made by the sun. Everyone, you know. The cloud means the sun evaporates water from the ocean, and it becomes cloud, and the business of the cloud is to cover our eyes to see the sun. Actually, the cloud has no existence, separate existence, and as soon as the sun is bright, the cloud disappears. This is bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. It comes into existence and again it disappears. This is maya. But the sky remains there; the sun remains there. Similarly, maya, illusion, is sometimes is generated. This is the creation of the material world, mahat-tattva-maya. So this is not permanent. It comes and goes. Similarly, maya is simply covering our eyes. Just the... Just like this cloud, it is not possible for the cloud to cover the sun. Sun is ninety-three millions, or at least, fourteen, fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. So how a cloud, spreading over, say, a few miles, ten miles, it can cover the sun? No. The cloud cannot cover the sun, but the cloud can cover my eyesight. This is the position. Similarly maya cannot touch Krsna. The Mayavadi philosophy is that maya also covers Krsna. When Krsna comes here, He comes covered by this maya. No. This is not. Maya cannot touch. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam... When Vyasadeva realized Krsna, before writing Srimad-Bhagavatam...

bhakti-yogena manasi
samyak pranihite 'male
apasyat purusam purnam
mayam ca tad-apasrayam
[SB 1.7.4]

So Vyasadeva, by his meditation, saw the Supreme Person and maya also. Maya is on the backside. Maya cannot come in the front side. So Krsna is never covered by maya. It is our eyes which covered by maya. So we, the fragments of Krsna, mamaivamsah, we are covered by maya, not Krsna. The theory that Krsna becomes covered, that is nonsense. How Krsna can be covered? Krsna cannot be covered. He is the controller of the maya. And we are controlled by the maya. That is the difference. Krsna, mayadhisa, and we are mayadhina. Adhina. We can become free. Exactly the same example that when our eyes are covered by the cloud, we cannot see the sun, although the sun is there. So if some way or other... We have got very good experience nowadays by flying in the airship. As soon as the airship goes above the cloud, you have got immense sunlight. Immense sunlight. And practically, the jet planes, they go seven miles above the surface and there is no cloud. The cloud is down. Similarly, you can go also above maya. You can transcend maya and see Krsna always. That is possible. How? Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. You simply surrender to Krsna and Krsna will arrange that you are no more under maya. Simple process. You just become, as Krsna demands, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is sanatana-dharma. Because we are, after all, servant of Krsna, but artificially we are trying to become master of this material..., of this world. We are therefore sent here. Just like those who are revolutionary, do not care for the state laws, they are sometimes killed or sometimes put into the prison house. That means those who are not voluntarily surrendering to Krsna, they are put into the prison house. They are forced to surrender. Forced to surrender. They'll be forced. Just like you cannot become... You are not free, either outside the prison house or inside the prison house. But when you think that you have become free...

Vimukta-maninah. Vimukta-maninah, falsely thinking that "I have now become liberated." Avisuddha-buddhayah [SB 10.2.32]. But the intelligence is not very clear. This is last snare of maya. When one thinks that "I am God. I have become God," that is the last snare of maya. That is also maya. How you can become God? What capacity you have got? God has created so many things. What you have created? God has shown so many things. What you have done? But still, falsely they are thinking, "I am God." This is maya, last snare of maya. Because the real disease as we have already explained, is to lord it over the material nature. Everyone is trying: "I am the lord of all I survey. I want to become lord of this universe. I want to become minister. I want to become president. I want to become business magnitude." And everything fails. Then he wants to become God. That is also maya. That is not possible.

So this is going on. So real our relationship with God, Krsna, is to serve Him. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Anadi bahirmukha jiva krsna bhuli gela, ataeva krsna veda purana kaila [Cc. Madhya 20.117]. We have forgotten real position, sanatana-dharma. We have forgotten. Sanatana-dharma means a living entity is meant for serving the whole. Living entity's a part, part of the whole. So the living entity's business is to serve the whole. Just like this finger. This finger is the part of my body. Its business is to carry out my order, to serve the whole. I want the finger to come here. Immediately... Similarly, our business is to serve Krsna, but when we want to become lord, independent of Krsna, that is called maya. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare, nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare. This is a statement in the Prema-vivarta. As soon as we desire to imitate Krsna, that is maya. Maya is nothing. We create that situation of maya. What is that? "I want to become Krsna. I want to become God. I want to become the Lord." This is maya. This is not possible. So Krsna is sanatana. We are also sanatana. But when we forget to serve Krsna, that is our asanatana. And when we are engaged again in the service of Krsna, that is sanatana-dharma. So sanatana-dharma means eternally serving Krsna. Another example, dharma... What is dharma? Dhr-dhatu. Characteristic. You cannot change it. You cannot change it. Just like sugar. Sugar characteristic means sweetness. And chili characteristic means pungent. So everything has got characteristic. Everything. That is called dharma. If sugar has become pungent and chili has become sweet... You purchase chili. If it is not very pungent, you throw it... "Oh, it is not good." Because the dharma of the chili is lacking there. Similarly, if you take sugar and if you find it salty, then you... "Oh, what is this?" So everything has got some characteristic. So we are living entities. We have got our characteristics. That is sanatana. I am sanatana, eternal, and my characteristic is to serve God. If I don't serve God, then the characteristic will remain there. Then I'll have to serve maya, in the illusion that I have become master. Actually, he's serving, but... Just like one man has got motorcar. So motorcar, to maintain a motorcar, to purchase a motorcar, it requires lots of money. So to get that money, he has to work very hard. And when he gets that money, he purchases a car, and then he has to maintain it by oiling, by supplying so many things. But he's thinking that "Now I have got a motorcar. Very nice." What is that? You are serving your motorcar. That's all

So this is the position. One is actually serving, not master. But he's thinking that he's master. This is maya. So when we give up this false prestigious position that I am master, then you are liberated. Hitva anyatha rupam. Mukti, the definition of mukti is hitva anyatha rupam svarupena avasthitih. Anyatha rupam. Now we are struggling hard within this material world, under the influence of maya, changing different types of body. Sometimes I am going to the heavenly planets. Sometimes I am going to the hellish planets. Sometimes I am rich man. Sometimes I am poor man. Sometimes brahmana, sometimes sudra. Sometimes tiger, sometimes tree. In this way, sarva-gata. Everywhere within this universe, the living entities are struggling for existence. Manah sasthani indriyani prakrti-sthani karsati. Mamaivamso jiva-bhuta. Krsna says, "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel, but foolishly, being carried by the mental concoction, prakrti-sthani, within this material world, karsati, struggling to become master." This is the disease. Prakrti-sthani karsati.

prakrteh kriyamanani
gunaih karmani sarvasah
ahankara-vimudhatma
kartaham iti manyate
[Bg. 3.27]

These rascals, they are pulled by the ear by prakrti. Prakrteh kriyamanani. "You do this" -- I have to do this. One who has associated with the tamo-guna of prakrti, prakrti has given a body just like hog, and the prakrti is obliging, "You come here. Eat the stool." And he's eating. "Oh, so nice." This is maya. Stool is very nice thing? But prakrti has given this hog a certain type of body and he is relishing: "Oh, stool is so nice." This is going on. Similarly, human form of body also. They're eating so many nonsense things in the restaurant, in the hotel, and they're relishing: "Oh, it is so nice." This is maya. This is going on. So our business is to serve, but because we have taken this attitude, that "I don't like to serve Krsna" or, "I am Krsna," then we are under the clutches of maya. Immediately. And under the illusion of maya... Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani... Karanam guna-sangah asya sad-asad-janma-yonisu. Because we are associating with the different modes of material nature, therefore we have to take birth, sad-asad-janma-yonisu. One is becoming hog, one is becoming dog, one is becoming human being, one is becoming demigod, one is becoming tree, one is becoming plant. So many... Eight million, four hundred thousands of species and form of life. Krsna says, sarva-yonisu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]. Krsna says, "All these forms, whatever they may be, I am the bija-pradah pita. I am the father." So if Krsna is the original father of every living entity, how one has become brahmana, one has become sudra, one has become tree, one has become tiger, one has become hog, one has become Indra, one has become Brahma? How is that?

Now, karanam guna-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu [Bg. 13.22]. So we are getting our birth in different types of body. The reason is I am associating with different types of the modes of nature. My mind is carrying me. It is not death. It is foolish to say that "This man is now dead. Everything is finished." That is rascaldom. Not finished. It is going on. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. The foolish rascals, they say, "Now this man is dead, finished." Big, big professors, they are saying, "Swamiji, after death everything is finished." And he's professor. Just see. Rascal fools they are becoming leaders, professors, politicians, How the people will be happy? They are put into the ignorance of life. Always put. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninah [SB 7.5.31]. They have been enamored by the external feature of Krsna's energy. This is also Krsna's energies, this material world. But we are attracted by this material energy. We should be attracted by the spiritual energy. That is perfection of life. Both energies are Krsna's. Apara, para. This is explained in Bhagavad-gita. So we are now attracted by the apara energy. Bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh [. 7.4], these material elements. We want. Because we are attracted by the material energy, therefore, when we construct a very nice stone house, oh, we think, "Now, yes, my life is successful. I have got a very nice house, made of stone." Are you stone? No. Still, my attraction is for the stone. Therefore Krsna gives me facility. "All right, you take the stone and try to... But you'll never be happy. Happy you'll be when you surrender to Me." Just like a child is given by the father all facilities to play, but at the same time, the father says, "My dear child, don't play like this. It is not good." But because the child persists, father sometimes says, "All right, you play like that. Similarly, Krsna does not want that we should come in this material world and be attracted by the earth, water, air, fire, and become great scientist and make combination of these five elements. Tejo-vari-mrdam vinimaya. What is this world? This world is a mixture of fire, earth, water, air. That's all. What is this? Tejo-vari-mrdam vinimayah tri-sargo 'mrsa. It is a false thing. Actually it is a combination of these five elements. And we are accepting... This body's also like that. Body's also combination of five elements. And we are attracted to this. "Oh, I have got so, such a, such a nice, beautiful body, strong body, American body," "Indian body," "Brahmana body," "This body," "That body." All maya. You'll never be happy by this bodily concept of life. Because you are...

Therefore Krsna indirectly saying that: acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam. The body is burned into ashes. Then how we are body? The body, when the man is dead, the body is put into the fire. So it is dahya, it becomes burned. Then how we are body? One man is claiming, "Oh, I am born brahmana. I have got this body from my birth." So that's all right. Then when your son will burn this body, then he'll be liable to brahma-hatya-papa. So this is going on, bodily concept... Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. This body, made of three, I mean to say, biles, mucus, and air... So the, a bag of bones and flesh and blood, if one is thinking that "I am this, I am this body," then he is go-khara, cow or ass. So anyone who is on the bodily concept of life, he is animal, go-khara. Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. So how you can receive knowledge from a person who is animal? You cannot get any knowledge from the cows or the asses. So anyone who is under the bodily concept of life, he's no better than animal. So actually, if we say frankly, everyone is in the bodily concept of life. Therefore the modern civilization is animal civilization. It is not human civilization. Human civilization will begin when one will understand that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." Aham brahmasmi. That is the beginning of human civilization. And so long one is under the bodily concept of life, it is the civilization of cats and dogs. That's all.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. [break]

Indian: (Hindi) [break]

Prabhupada: (answering question:) Then gradually we can understand. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If you associate with devotees, hear them, then gradually everything will be cleared, and you'll understand your position. Then you understand: "Oh, I am not this body." Aham brahmasmi. That is the beginning of knowledge. Otherwise, so long you are under the bodily concept of life, you are in the animal platform. That is the difference. [break] But bhakti's such a nice thing that krsnakarsini. Bhakti attract Krsna. Krsna attracts everything, but bhakti attracts Krsna. Therefore we have to adopt the bhakti means. Bhaktya mam abhijanati, yavan yas casmi tattvatah. (Hindi)

bhaktya mam abhijanati
yavan yas casmi tattvatah
tato mam tattvato jnatva
visate tad-anantaram
[Bg. 18.55]

If you want to know Krsna in truth, then you have to take this devotional line. Then gradually Krsna will be attracted by your devotion, and then you will know Krsna and you'll be allowed to enter into Krsna's place. Otherwise, sarva-gatah, sthanur acalo 'yam. Although we are eternal, we have to wander within so many forms of life within this brahmanda and waste our time. That's all.

Indian: (Hindi) [break]

Prabhupada: Yes. (Hindi) Tilaka mantra hai, bhagavan kahe, Vamanadeva, Kesava, Govinda. So a devotee is protected from all sides by Krsna. So you remain safe. Krsna says, kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati [Bg. 9.31]. So bhakta hai (Hindi) So you are protected. That's it.

Indian: Yes, but even we put that tilaka on Lord also.

Prabhupada: Hmmm?

Indian: The same is there, of Lord, on the face of Lord, on...

Prabhupada: It is a temple of the Lord. Visnu-mandira. You cannot put Krsna or Visnu just like statues. We have got a fashion now, imitated from the Western. We make the statue of a big man the place of passing stool by the crows. We do not make like that. We give temple. When we worship somebody, we give him temple. Not for passing stool by the crows.

Indian: Why Brahman temples are not existing, and is there any Sanskrit reason or is...?

Prabhupada: What is that?

Indian: Brahman temple is not existing.

Prabhupada: Brahman is impersonal. Brahman is everywhere. Sarvam khalv idam brahma. Then Paramatma. Then Bhagavan.
Bhagavan is the last word of Absolute Truth. So Brahman is impersonal. Just like the sky is impersonal. [break]

Indian: Maharaja, it is indicated in Ramayana that God is coming to this world as kali-avatara. It is correct? What is the indication of His coming?

Prabhupada: His indication He's coming is that people are becoming degraded, forgetting God. That is their degradation. So at the end of this Kali-yuga they will be so much degraded that it will be impossible for them to understand God. At the present moment, although it is Kali-yuga, there are some persons who are trying to understand God. At least, there is attempt. But, at the end of Kali-yuga, say, about 400,000's of years, then people... Because they're becoming animals, more and more. The more we become animals, we cannot understand God. So our modern civilization is to make the people animal. That is advancement of civilization. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam ca samanyam etat pasubhih naranam. The modern civilization is how we can eat very nicely, how we can sleep nicely, how we can have sexual intercourse nicely, how we can defend nicely. Only these four principles are being taught. They have no idea what is soul, what is God, what is the relationship with the soul. So this is, this type of civilization is increasing. So just imagine how much it will be increased after four hundred thousands of years. The Kali-yuga has begun only five thousand years. Within this five thousand years, we have so much degraded, illusioned by the maya as advancement of civilization. This is maya. So the more days go, we shall be more illusioned. So there will be no capacity to understand about God. At that time, God will come to destroy all this population by cutting their throat. That is kalki-avatara. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.25 -- Hyderabad, November 29, 1972

"You Are A Sample Of Krsna"

73/08/27 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.23-24



Prabhupada:

nainam chindanti sastrani
nainam dahati pavakah
na cainam kledayanty apo
na sosayati marutah
[Bg. 2.23]

"The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind."

So here is another puzzle for the rascal scientists -- because they are contemplating that except within this earth, in other planets, there is no life. Because the atmosphere is different, they cannot live there. Now, take for example the sun planet, fiery planet. So naturally, we shall imagine that no living entity can live there: it is fiery planet. But Krsna says that nainam dahati pavakah. The fire does not burn it. This is quite reasonable because the living entities are there, we can experience. Roughly we see that we are on the land and the aquatics, fishes, they are in the water. I cannot live within the water, neither the fish cannot live on the land, but from my experience, if we think that there is no living entities in water, is it not rascaldom? Similarly, these rascals are thinking from his own point of view. Because he cannot live within the fire or within the water, he's thinking there is no life within the fire. This is rascaldom. To refute these rascals, Krsna says, nainam dahati pavakah. Even within the fire there are living entities. Therefore Krsna says imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. "I spoke first of all this Bhagavad-gita system to the sun-god."

Now rascals will think that "How there is a god or there is a person in the sun planet?" They'll think like that. Everything from his own angle of vision. This is modern science. "I cannot think of such thing. Therefore, there cannot be any such thing." Just like everything should be within my experience. This is going on. They never admit that "What is your experience?" You are imperfect, your senses are imperfect, how you can be perfectly experienced? It is not possible. Acintya. There are so many inconceivable powers acting on behalf of Krsna. What are you? You may cheat some people that you have become God. That is another thing. But the inconceivable potency of Krsna, they are working differently. Srila Jiva Gosvami says that unless we accept this principle that Krsna or God has got inconceivable power, acintya-sakti, we cannot understand. If we put Krsna within the jurisdiction of my limited understanding, that is not understanding of Krsna. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. That inconceivable power is also within us. We do not know. So many things are happening. The example, as I gave many times, that the one nail was taken off. Still, it grew exactly to the size of the nail. In my personal body, in the nails. So the doctors cannot make exactly fitting nail, but it is growing exactly to the size. Even it is inconceivable to me how it is growing. Even my hair grows inconceivable, I do not know. I cut every week, and it still grows. There are so many little inconceivable power within me. I am part and parcel of God. Just imagine how much inconceivable power is there in Krsna. It is common sense.

We understand from the sastras that Krsna, as Garbhodakasayi Visnu, He created water within this universe and lie down, Garbhodakasayi Visnu. Now we cannot conceive that how a person can produce water from the body like the sea and ocean. But if you think over little soberly, that sometimes we perspire, we get perspiration. That is water. In India, we have got special experience during summer season. Sometimes a small pot can be filled up with the water produced from my body like this, put. Of course, one must be healthy man. Then he'll perspire and water will come out from the body. So I am limited. I am only a small particle of Krsna's body, part and parcel. If I have got this power of producing water, maybe one grain or two grain or one ounce; Krsna has got unlimited power, why not a sea? Where is the difficulty to understand? He can produce unlimited quantity of water which may be known as ocean and sea. Yato va imani bhutani jayante. Therefore, Vedas say that "From whom all these five elements have come into being?" And Krsna says,

bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh
kham mano buddhir eva ca
ahankara itiyam me
bhinna prakrtir astadha
[Bg. 7.4]

"That is my energy." So everything is Krsna's energy. He can produce. Try to verify from the example. Because you are little sample of Krsna. You can study what you are doing, what you are feeling, what you are acting. The same thing in unlimited quantity, Krsna has got the power. That's all.

So here it is said, Arjuna might be thinking that "Krsna says this body is different from the soul. The soul is within. So now suppose when I place my sword on the body of my grandfather or my kinsmen, the body will cut, and, in the meantime, the soul is within the body. It may be cut because the soul is there. By accidentally, he may be cut." Therefore Krsna says very distinctly; nainam chindanti sastrani, that "Soul cannot be cut. Any weapon. It cannot be pierced by your arrows, it cannot be cut into pieces by your sword, or if you use firearms it will not burn." Nainam dahati pavakah. This is the position of soul. Immutable, indestructible. Another... This is the negative description of the soul. Nainam chindanti sastrani. Is there anything in this material world which cannot be cut into pieces? Have you got any experience? Take wood, stone, iron, or anything. It can be cut into pieces. Therefore, the..., when Krsna says nainam chindanti sastrani, that means it is nothing like anything material elements. It is different. It is different. Any material elements. There are earth, water, fire, air, and ether. You can prepare weapons from earth. Water, you cannot do now. But there can be a weapon from the water also. That was used in the Battle of Kuruksetra. Here, the atomic bomb is thrown, brahmastra. From the other side the watery astra is thrown so that the energy of the atomic bomb is immediately finished. So what the scientists know now? Although they have manufactured atomic bomb, but they are unable to manufacture another weapon counteraction of atomic bomb. That is not possible. But there is. Atomic bomb is fiery, and if you manufacture another bomb which is watery, then you can counteract. Because fight means I charge you with some kind of weapon. You have to protect yourself by the counteraction. That was going on. So nainam chindanti sastrani nainam dahati pavakah.

So it is quite natural to understand that if there is living entity within the earth, within the water, even in the air... That we experience. In the air there are so many living entities. In the water, unvisible, not seen by the naked eyes. By microscope, we can see so many germs are there in the water, in the air. So why not in the fire? Fire is also one of the material elements. Therefore, the sun planet, although it is fiery planet, there is inhabitation of different type of human being who may be called as demigods. But there are similar buildings, similar persons, cities, motorcars, everything. Everything is there. Otherwise, how Krsna could go there and says that imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1], unless it is exactly a planet like this where living entities, houses, roads, cars and everything is there? As Krsna advented Himself within this planet, He came here, Krsna can go anywhere. Krsna, when He was present, He was going anywhere. Sometimes within the waters, sometimes within the walls of the universe, sometimes in the spiritual world. He went to the spiritual world, taking Arjuna with Him. Arjuna also went with Him. And He saw the Karanodakasayi Visnu in the spiritual world. These things are there, described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. He could go anywhere. They were going to the heavenly planets. That is Krsna. Not Guruji. (laughs) That one slap, and he's blind. Not like that. Krsna could go, Krsna can do... All, this is called omnipotent, all-powerful. So unless we think of Krsna possessing unconceivable powers, we cannot understand Krsna.

Nainam chindanti sastrani nainam dahati pavakah. Another study from this verse is that the Mayavada philosophy, they say that spirit is one. The Supreme Spirit, impersonal. When the spirit is embodied, it becomes individual. This is their philosophy. Otherwise, they give the example... Just like there is water on the sea. It is also sustained on the earth. A big mass of water. And on that water, you can put one boat or ship full of water. And on that boat, you put another, a cup of water, and in the cup of water, you put another pot, a small cup or small utensil or even the skin of a grain, that will also contain. So their philosophy is that the water is one, but according to the pot or container, it becomes small and big. This is their philosophy. And when the container is broken, then the whole water becomes one. This is their philosophy. Now this nonsense philosophy is refuted in this verse. How? Now because spirit, either you take whole spirit or part spirit, nainam chindanti sastrani. You cannot divide it by cutting into pieces. That is not possible. So their philosophy is that the water has been put into different pots, therefore we see this small water, this smaller or bigger, this division. But they are all individual always. It is not that it has been divided. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah jiva-loke sanatanah [Bg. 15.7]. Sanatana. Sanatana means eternally they are divided. It is not that it has been divided by some means. Just like we keep water in big pot or small pot. That is not possible. They are big or small eternally. Visnu-tattva, jiva-tattva. The jiva-tattva, they are small fragments. They are eternal. Visnu-tattva. Visnu-tattva means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Visnu-tattva is unlimitedly great eternally, sanatana. And the jiva-tattva, they are infinitesimally smaller eternally. Not that it has been cut into small and big. No.

So this Mayavadi theory cannot stand here if we accept the Bhagavad-gita's statement. Nainam chindanti sastrani. It is not divided by some means. No. It is already divided. It is already divided. Neither the small piece of soul or the big piece of soul you can divide.

nainam chindanti sastrani
nainam dahati pavakah
na cainam kledayanty apo
na sosayati marutah

Air... There are earth, water, fire, air. So none of these material things can act on the soul. It is not that because air dries up everything, anything... Big, big ocean is dried up by evaporation. Big, big river, big, big lakes are evaporated, but soul cannot be evaporated. Nainam sosayati marutah. This is the distinction. The air can evaporate a big ocean. Gradually, it is being done. As the days will go on, the sea water will be evaporated, and at the end there will be no water. These are the statements. Towards destruction, there will be no water. Just like now it is already begun. There is scarcity of water, no rainfall. So we see that the lakes and rivers and other water reservoirs, they are becoming dried up. Syamasundara, you were telling that river? What is that lake?

Syamasundara: Reservoir.

Prabhupada: Drying up. So there must be dry up and there must be supply. Nature's way. That is the way. But in the, with the advancement of Kali-yuga, there will be scarcity of supply, but the water will dry up gradually. The result will be there will be no water. As there will be no water, everything, all living entities, vegetation, living being, everything will finish, will die. For hundreds of years there will be no water, and then when everything is finished, dried up, burned into ashes due to and the sunshine, the glare of the sunshine will be twelve times increased and there will be no water. How one can live? So everything on this planet will be finished. And then, being warmer, warmer, there will be fire. In the fire, all planets of the universe will be burned into ashes. Then there will be rainfall. Another. For hundred years. So the whole universe will be filled up with water. Then it will be evaporated, and the whole universe, cosmic manifestation finished. This is called annihilation. So in Bhagavad-gita there is a statement that when everything is annihilated, the spiritual world is not annihilated. Na vinasyasi. So as the spiritual world does not annihilate, similarly the soul, the spirit, by any such disturbances, the soul is never annihilated. Avyayam indestructible, immutable. So Krsna is explaining in different ways the nature of the soul. We have to take it seriously, then we get perfect knowledge.

So, next verse you can...

acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam
akledyo 'sosya eva ca
nityah sarva-gatah sthanur
acalo 'yam sanatanah
[Bg. 2.24]

"This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same."

So this is another way, negative way. In the previous verse Krsna says: nainam chindanti sastrani. And now, negatively or passively, it is said that acchedyo 'yam. In every way, Krsna is suggesting the immortality of the soul. There are five elements: earth, water, fire, air. So none of these elements can act on the soul. You can prepare sword, cutting sword from earth, from metal, but it does not mean that you can cut anything material with your sword. But you cannot cut the spirit soul with your sword or with your other material weapons. Neither... Acchedyo 'yam adahyah. Neither you can burn with fire, neither you can moisten it with water, neither you can dry. In every respect Krsna explains how soul is immutable. Another significance is nityah sarva-gatah. Sarva-gatah means all-pervading, everywhere the soul is there. Even within the stone, even within the sands, there are. So how these people can say there is no existence of living entity in the moon planet? Sarva-gatah. We have seen sometimes that from the stone, I have marked it. There is one juma mastika(?) in Agra. On the top of the stone dome a plant has come out, on the top. Now who has gone to place that seed that a banyan tree, banyan plant has come out and it has cracked the stone? So nobody has gone there, but this means the soul is everywhere. As soon as it gets the opportunity, it accepts a material body immediately. As soon as there is opportunity. That is explained in the Seventh Chapter very nicely. [break]

...planetary system, say moon planet or other planet. They also again come down on this earthly planet. Ksine... [break] ... Just like you get visa for going to a foreign country. As soon as the visa period is over, the visa department immediately reminds you: "Sir, your visa is finished. Now you must go. You must go out." So the whole, the punya-loka, the higher planetary system, svarga-loka, you can go there by your pious activities, by performing big, big yajnas, punya, pious activities, go there. But ksine punye martya-lokam visanti [Bg. 9.21]. When your punya, it is also limited thing, when it is finished, you have to come back. It is said that when they come back on this planet they come through the water, showers, and they fall down on this earth. Again they begin their life as grass and something like that, evolution. Ksine punye martya-lokam visanti [Bg. 9.21]. Therefore this elevation to the higher planetary system, Krsna condemns them. Abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. "My dear Arjuna, even if you go to the higher planetary system, Brahmaloka, to live for many millions of years, still when your asset of pious activity will be finished, you'll have to come back here." But He again said, mad-dhama gatva punar janma na vidyate, that "If you try to come back to My place, then you'll not come back."

So the karmis, karma-kandiya, they are trying to be elevated to the heavenly planet, higher planetary system. That is not very good idea. You can go to the higher planetary system by your pious activities. First of all the modern age, the people are so much impious, sinful, that is not also possible. They may go down. Jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. They are covered with ignorance. The ignorance is wine, women, and meat-eating. So they are going down. There is no possibility of going higher planetary system, not possible. Who will go to the higher planetary system? Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah [Bg. 14.18]. Urdhvam means higher. Only those who are pious, they can be elevated. So even if you are pious, still you have to come back again. This is the process. So sarva-gatah. Sarva-gatah means a soul is free to go anywhere, anywhere. Full freedom, as he wants. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gita:

yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutani yanti bhutejya
yanti mad-yajino 'pi mam
[Bg. 9.25]

As you like. It is up to you. Make your selection where you want to be. You have, somehow or other, you have come here. That's all right. But Krsna gives you chance to be elevated to any planetary system you like. Ultimately, if you want to go back to home, back to Godhead, that is also given, everything. Mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam. So if you want to go to the moon planet, there is no need of the sputnik. There is a process so that after this body you become elevated to the moon planet. Why should you make research for, and futile research, going to the moon? You just prepare yourself. There are different processes. If you want to go to the moon planet, you can go. If you want to go to the heavenly planet, you can go. Similarly, if you want to go to the planet where Krsna is, you can go. So sane man, intelligent man, should consider that "If I have to prepare myself for going, for being elevated to the higher planetary system, but we have to come back again, ksine punye martya-loka, why not endeavor for going back to Krsnaloka?" That is intelligence.

Thank you very much. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.23-24 -- London, August 27, 1973

"The Indestructible Soul"

72/11/27 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 2.23



Prabhupada:

nainam chindanti sastrani
nainam dahati pavakah
na cainam kledayanty apo
na sosayati marutah
[Bg. 2.23]

So definition by negation. Directly we cannot appreciate what is that spiritual fragment, particle, which is within this body. Because the length and breadth of that spirit soul is impossible to be measured by our material instruments, although the scientists say that we can measure it. Anyway, even it is possible, first of all, you have to see where the soul is situated. Then you can attempt to measure it. First of all, you cannot see even. Because it is very, very small, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Now, because we cannot see, by our experimental knowledge we cannot appreciate; therefore Krsna is describing the existence of the self soul in a negative way: "It is not this." Sometimes when we cannot understand, the explanation is given: "It is not this." If I cannot express what it is, then we can express in a negative way that "It is not this." So what is that "not this"? The "not this" is that "It is not material." The spirit soul is not material. But we have got experience of material things. Then how to understand that it is the negative? That is explained in the next verse, that nainam chindanti sastrani. You cannot cut, the spirit soul by any weapon, knife, sword, or thistle. (pistol?) It is not possible. Nainam chindanti sastrani. The Mayavada philosophy says that "I am Brahman. Due to my illusion, I feel I am separated. Otherwise I am one." But Krsna says that mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. So does it mean that the, from the whole spirit, this fragment has been separated by cutting into piece? No. Nainam chindanti sastrani. It cannot be cut into pieces. Then? Then the answer is that the spirit soul fragment is eternal. Not that by maya it has become separated. No. How it can be? Because it cannot be cut into pieces.

If I say... Just like they put the arguments: ghatakasa-potakasa, that "The sky within the pot and the sky outside the pot, on account of the wall of the pot, the sky within the pot is separated." But how it can be separated? It cannot be cut into pieces. For argument's sake... Actually, we are very, very small particle, molecular parts of the spirit. So... And they are eternally part. Not that circumstantially it has become part, and again it can join. It can join, but not that in a homogeneous way, mixed-up way. No. Even it is joined, it, the soul keeps his separate existence. Just like a green bird, when he enters into the tree, it appears that the bird is now merged into the tree, but it is not that. The bird keeps its identity within the tree. That is the conclusion. Although both the tree and the bird being green, it appears that the bird is now merged into the tree, this merging does not mean that, that the bird and the tree has become one. No. It appears like that. Because both of them are the same color, it appears that the bird has..., there is no more existence of the bird. But that is not a fact. The bird is... Similarly, we are individual spirit soul. The quality being one, say, greenness, when one merges into the Brahman effulgence, the living entity does not lose his identity. And because he does not lose the identity, and because the living entity, by nature, is joyful, he cannot stay in the impersonal Brahman effulgence for many days. Because he has to seek out joyfulness. That joyfulness means varieties.

So in the Brahman effulgence it is, simply being cin-matra, simply spirit, there is no varieties of spirit. It is simply spirit. Just like the sky. The sky is also matter. But in the sky, there is no variety. If you want varieties, even in this material world, then you have to take shelter of a planet, either you come to the earthly planet or go to the moon planet or sun planet. Similarly, the Brahman effulgence is the glowing rays from the body of Krsna. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. Just like the sunshine is glowing effulgence from the sun globe, and within the sun globe, there is the sun-god, similarly, there is, in the spiritual world, there is Brahman effulgence, impersonal, and within the Brahman effulgence, there are spiritual planets. They are called Vaikunthalokas. And the topmost of the Vaikunthalokas is Krsnaloka. So from Krsna's body, the Brahman effulgence is coming out. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. Everything is existing in that Brahman effulgence. Sarvam khalv idam brahma. In the Bhagavad-gita also it is said, mat-sthani sarva-bhutani naham tesu avasthitah [Bg. 9.4]. Everything existing on His effulgence, Brahman effulgence...

Just like the whole material world, innumerable planets, they are existing on the sunshine. The sunshine is impersonal effulgence of the sun globe, and there are millions of planets resting on the sunshine. Everything is happening on, on account of the sunshine. Similarly the Brahman effulgence coming out, the rays coming out from the body of Krsna, and everything is resting on that Brahman effulgence. Actually, different types of energies. Just like from the sunshine there are different types of colors, energies. That is creating this material world. Just like we can experience practically. When there is no sunshine in Western countries, when there is snow, all the leaves of the tree immediately falls down. It is called fall, the season. It remains only wood, piece of wood only. Again, when there is spring season, the sunshine is available, all at a time, they become green. So as the sunshine is working in this material world, similarly the ultimate bodily rays of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the origin of all creation. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. On account of the Brahman effulgence, millions and millions of brahmandas, or universes, are coming out.

yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya
jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah
visnur mahan sa iha yasya kala-viseso
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.48]

So here, this beginning of spiritual understanding, that spirit, the Supreme Spirit, cannot be cut into pieces. Nainam chindanti sastrani nainam dahati pavakah. Now try to understand. We are thinking, the modern scientists, they are thinking that there cannot be any life in the sun globe. No. There is life. We get information from Vedic literature that there is life. There are also human beings like us. But they're made of fire. That's all. Because we have got teeny experience that "How in the fire a living entity can live?" To answer this problem, Krsna says that nainam dahati pavakah. (aside:) Why you are sitting there? You come here. Nainam dahati pavakah. The spirit soul cannot be burned. If it would have been burned, then according to our Hindu system, we burn the body, then the soul is burned. Actually, the atheists think like that, that when the body's burned, everything is finished. Big, big professor, they think like that. But here, Krsna says, nainam dahati pavakah: "It is not burned." Otherwise, how it exists? Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Everything is very clearly stated. The soul does not burn; neither it can be cut into pieces. Then: na cainam kledayanty apah. Neither it is moistened. It cannot be wet in touch with water. Now in the material world we find that anything, however hard it is... Just like stone or iron, it can be cut into pieces. There is separated machine or instrument. It can be cut... Anything can be cut into pieces. And anything can be melted also. It requires a different type of temperature only, but everything can be burned and melted. Then anything can be moistened, can be wet. But here it is said, na cainam kledayanty apo na sosayati marutah: neither it can be evaporated. That is eternity. That means any material condition cannot affect the soul. Asango 'yam purusah.

In the Vedas it is said this living entity is always without any touch with this material world. It is simply a covering. It is not in touch. Just like my body, the present, this body, although it is covered by the shirt and the coat, it is not attached. It is not mixed up. The body keeps always separate. Similarly, the soul always keeps separate from this material covering. It is simply on account of various plans and desires that he's making for lording over this material nature. Everyone can see. The, every living being is trying to lord it over the material nature. That is his disease. He wants to lord it. He's servant, but artificially, he wants to become Lord. That is the disease. Everyone... Ultimately, when he fails to lord it over the material world, he says, "Oh, this material world is false. Now I shall become one with the Supreme." Brahma satyam jagan mithya. But because the spirit soul is part and parcel of Krsna, so by nature, he is joyful. He is seeking after joy. Every one of us, we are working so hard to find out some pleasure of life.

So that pleasure of life cannot be had in the spiritual effulgence. Therefore in the Srimad-Bhagavatam we get this information that aruhya krcchrena param padam [SB 10.2.32]. Krcchrena, after undergoing severe austerity and penance, one may merge into the Brahman effulgence... Sayujya-mukti. It is called sayujya-mukti. Sayujya, to merge. So aruhya krcchrena param padam. Even one goes up to that point, to merge into the Brahman existence after severe austerity and penances, still, they fall down. Patanty adhah. Adhah means again comes into this material world. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32]. Why they fall down? Anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah. They'll never agree God is person. They'll never agree. Their teeny brain cannot accommodate that God, the Supreme, can be a person. Because he has experience of the person of himself, or others. If God is a person like me and you, then how He can create universe, innumerable universes?

Therefore to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it requires enough pious activities. In Bhagavad-gita it is said, bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. After speculating in the impersonal philosophical way, when one is mature, bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan, when he's actually wise,... So long he cannot understand that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person, sac-cid-ananda-vigraha... [Bs. 5.1]. brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate. Bhagavan. That... vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam yaj jnanam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. This is statement in the Srimad-Bhagavata: "Those who know the Absolute Truth, they know that Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan, they are one. It is different phases of understanding only." Just like if you see one hill from a distant place, you will find impersonal, hazy, something cloudy. If you go still forward, then you can see it is something greenish. And if you go actually within the hill, you'll see there are so many animals, trees, men. Similarly, those who are trying to understand the Absolute from distance place or far away, they are realizing, by speculation, impersonal Brahman. Those who are still forward, yogis, they can see localized aspect. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah [SB 12.13.1]. They can see, dhyana avasthita, localized within himself. This is Paramatma feature. And those who are devotees, they see Krsna, the Supreme Personality of God, eye to eye, one person to another. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13).

So actually, the ultimate, the last word of the Absolute Truth is person. But, but unfortunately, those who are mudhas, or less intelligent, avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam [Bg. 9.11], "Oh, Krsna? He may be God, but He has become a person, taking the help of maya." This is Mayavada philosophy. They are studying maya; they put God also within maya. This is Mayavada philosophy. But God is not maya. God is never covered by maya. Krsna says that mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te: [Bg. 7.14] "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, he becomes free from the clutches of maya." How Krsna can be within maya? That is not very good philosophy. Simply by surrendering unto Krsna, you become free from maya. How the person, the Supreme Person, Krsna, can be within maya? Therefore Krsna said, avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam, param bhavam ajanantah [Bg. 9.11]. They do not know how much potential the Lord is, how much powerful He is. They are comparing the power of the Supreme Lord with his own power. A frog philosophy. The Dr. Frog. Frog is considering, "Atlantic Ocean may be a little bigger than the well." Because he is living always. Kupa-manduka-nyaya It is, Sanskrit it is called kupa-manduka-nyaya. Kupa means well, and manduka means the frog. The frog is perpetually within the well, and if somebody informs him that there is another big span of water, Atlantic Ocean, he simply calculates that "It may be a little more than this well, little more than this well." But he cannot understand how great He is. So God is great. We cannot understand how great He is! That is our folly. We are simply calculating: "He may be one inch greater than me. Or one foot greater than me." That is mental speculation. Therefore Krsna says, manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many millions of men, one may try to make his life successful, understanding the Absolute Truth." And yatatam api siddhanam kascin mam vetti tattvatah [Bg. 7.3].

So we cannot understand God by our mental speculation. Neither we can understand what is the measurement of the soul. That is not possible. Therefore we have to take information from the highest authority, Krsna, what is the nature of God, what is the nature of Absolute Truth, what is the nature of the soul. We have to hear. We have to hear. Therefore the Vedic literature is called sruti. You cannot make experiment. That is not possible. But unfortunately, there is a section of people who think that they can make experiment, they can know the Absolute by mental speculation. The Brahma-samhita says:

panthas tu koti-sata-vatsara-sampragamyo
vayor athapi manaso muni-pungavanam
so 'py asti yat prapada-simny avicintya-tattve
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.34]

Panthas tu koti-sata-vatsara-sampragamyah. For many millions of years, if you make your progress in the sky to find out God, where is God... Panthas tu koti-sata-vatsara-sampragamyo vayor athapi. Not this ordinary plane, but on the plane of air, the velocity of air. Or mind. The velocity of mind is very quick. Immediately, you are sitting here, your mind can go many millions of miles away if you have got idea. So either on the plane of mind or by the plane of air, and traveling for many millions of years, you cannot find out. Panthas tu koti-sata-vatsara-sampragamyo vayor athapi manaso muni-punga... [Bs. 5.34]. Muni-pungavanam. Not only ordinary persons, but great saintly persons, sages, they also cannot.

So another place it is said in the Brahma-samhita: vedesu durlabham adurlabham atma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. Vedesu. If you simply study Vedas, although the ultimate goal of studying Veda is to know Krsna, but if you want to study Vedas by your own speculative process, then He'll always remain rare. Vedesu durlabham adurlabham atma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. But if you approach a devotee of the Lord, he can deliver. He can deliver. Mahiyasam pada-rajo-'bhisekam niskincananam na vrnita yavat, naisam matis tavad urukramanghrim. Prahlada Maharaja says that "You cannot have Krsna consciousness..." Naisam matis tavad urukramanghrim. Krsna consciousness is not so easy. You cannot have it unless you surrender yourself. Niskincananam, mahiyasam pada-rajo-'bhisekam niskincananam na vrnita yavat. So long you do not take the dust of the lotus feet of a devotee, niskincananam, who has nothing to do with this material world -- he's simply concerned with the service of the Lord -- unless you are in touch with such a person, it is not possible to attain Krsna consciousness. These are the statements of the sastra.

So Krsna is the Supreme Absolute Truth. And He is person. But we cannot understand Him unless we go through a krsna-bhakta. Therefore to understand Krsna, Krsna has come down as a bhakta, Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri-krsna-caitanya prabhu nityananda sri-advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda. So we have to understand Krsna through Lord Caitanya. Because Krsna Himself has come... krsnaya krsna-caitanya-namne. Rupa Gosvami, when he met first Caitanya Mahaprabhu... Not first, for the second time. First time he met when he, while he was minister in the government of Nawab Hussein Shah. And then, after meeting, Caitanya Mahaprabhu wanted them to fulfill His mission. So they decided to resign from the government service and join Caitanya Mahaprabhu to spread this Krsna consciousness movement. Therefore when Rupa Gosvami met Caitanya Mahaprabhu at Allahabad, Prayaga, the first verse he composed in this connection, he said, namo maha-vadanyaya krsna-prema-pradaya te: [Cc. Madhya 19.53] "My Lord, You are the most munificent incarnation." Why? "Because You are distributing krsna-prema. People cannot understand what is Krsna, and what to speak of krsna-prema. But that krsna-prema, You are distributing like anything." Namo maha-vadan... "Therefore You are the most munificent, charitable person." Namo maha-vadanyaya. Vadanya means one who is very charitable, gives in charity as much as you like. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu, because people misunderstood Krsna... Krsna asked in the Bhagavad-gita that "You surrender unto Me." What can He do? He's God. He's Krsna. He's ask you, orders you: "You surrender. I take charge of you." Aham tvam sarva-pape... But still, people misunderstood: "Oh, why shall I surrender to Krsna? He's also a man like me. Maybe a little important. But why shall I surrender unto Him?" Because here the material disease is not to surrender. Everyone is puffed-up: "I am something." This is material disease. Therefore to become cured from this material disease, you have to surrender.

tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah
[Bg. 4.34]

So unless you are prepared to surrender... That is a great difficult job for the materialistic person. Nobody wants to surrender. He wants to compete. Individually, person to person, family to family, nation to nation, everyone is trying to become the master. Where is the question of surrendering? There is no question of surrendering. So this is the disease. Therefore Krsna demands that to cure this rascaldom, or most chronic disease, you surrender. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "Then? If I surrender, then whole thing will be failure? My business, my plans, my, so many things...?" No. "I take charge of you. I take charge of you." Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah. "Don't be worried." So much assurance is there. Still, we are not prepared to surrender, This is our material disease. Therefore Krsna came again as a devotee just to show how to surrender to Krsna. Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam sangopangastra-parsadam [SB 11.5.32].

So this Krsna consciousness movement is very scientific and authorized. It is not a bogus thing, something manufactured by concoction of the mind. It is authorized, based on the Vedic instruction, as Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So we teach only this philosophy, that you... Krsna, here is Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You are searching after God. You cannot understand what is God. Here is God, Krsna. His name, His activities, everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita. You accept and surrender unto Him. And as Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So we are speaking the same thing. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. We don't misinterpret. We don't spoil the whole Bhagavad-gita. We don't do this mischief. Sometimes people, they say, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful." But what wonderful? I am not a magician. My only credit is I have not spoiled the Bhagavad-gita. I have presented as it is. Therefore it is successful.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.23 -- Hyderabad, November 27, 1972