"Ultimate Understanding"

68/09/11 San Francisco, Bhagavad-gita 7.2



Prabhupada:

jnanam te 'ham sa-vijnanam
idam vaksyamy asesatah
yaj jnatva neha bhuyo 'nyaj
jnatavyam avasisyate

We have been discussing this verse, what is knowledge. Knowledge means how this universe is working, what is the working force, what is the energy. Just like scientists, they are searching out different energies. Just like this earth is floating on weightlessness. Such a huge mass of material body with so many mountains, so many seas, oceans, skyscraper houses, cities, towns, countries, it is floating just like a swab, cotton swab, in the air. So if one understands how it is floating, that is knowledge.

So Krsna consciousness means to have all kinds of knowledge. Not that we Krsna conscious people are being carried away by some sentiment. No. We have got philosophy, science, theology, ethics, morality, everything -- everything that is required to be known in human form of life. So Krsna says that "I'll speak to you all about knowledge." So this is Krsna consciousness. A Krsna consciousness, a Krsna conscious person should not be fool. If he is required to explain how these universal planets are floating, how this human body is rotating, how many species of life, how they are being evolved... These are all scientific knowledge. Physics, botanics, chemistry, astronomy, everything. Therefore Krsna says, yaj jnatva, if you understand this knowledge, Krsna consciousness, then you'll have nothing to know. That means you'll have complete knowledge. We are hankering after knowledge, but if we are in knowledge of Krsna consciousness, if we know Krsna, then all knowledge is included.

So tac-chakti visaya vivikta-svarupa visayakam jnanam. You'll have full knowledge about the constitutional position of yourself, this material world, the spiritual world, God, our interrelationship, time, space, everything. There are many things to be known. But the principal thing is that the God, the living entities, time, work, and this material energy. These five things are to be known. You cannot deny that "There is no God." God is controller, supreme controller. You cannot say that you are not controlled. There is controller. Just like in the state, you cannot say there is no controller. There is controller. In every street, in every house, there is control, government control. Suppose this store, here is also government control. You have to build store like this, you cannot live. If it is residential house, "The fire arrangement should be like this." There is control. Even you walk in the street, you drive your car, there is control: "Keep to the right." You cannot cross where there is written "Stop." You have to stop.

So in every way, you are under control. So there is a controller. And the supreme controller is Krsna. There is one controller over another controller. If you go on searching out who is the ultimate controller, then you'll find Krsna. Sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1]. The Brahma-samhita affirms, isvarah paramah, the supreme controller is Krsna. Isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1]. Isvarah means controller. So we have to get knowledge of this controller, how He is controlling. (child making noises) (aside:) It is disturbing. So jnanam vijnanam te sahitam. Not only to know the controller, but to know how He is controlling, how many energies the controller has got and how He is one controlling -- that is vijnanam. So jnanam vijnanam te nate tubhyam prapannaya asesatah.

Now this knowledge can be understood by a person who has made relationship with Krsna and is a surrendered soul. Without being surrendered, it is very difficult to understand the controller and the energies, how He is controlling everything. Tubhyam prapannaya asesatah samagrena upadeksyami. This is the condition. You will find in the later chapters that Krsna says, naham prakasah sarvasya [Bg. 7.25]. Just like if you enter into any educational institution, if you don't surrender yourself to the rules and regulation of the institution, how you can get advantage of the knowledge imparted by the institution? Everywhere, wherever you want to receive something, you have to be controlled or you have to be surrendered to the rules and regulation. Just like in our class we are imparting some lessons from the Bhagavad-gita, and if you do not follow the rules and regulations of this class, it is not possible to receive the knowledge. Similarly, the full knowledge of the controller and the process of controlling can be understood when one is surrendered like Arjuna to Krsna. Unless one is surrendered soul, it is not possible. You always remember that Krsna, Arjuna surrendered himself to Krsna. Sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam. So therefore Krsna is also speaking to him.

Actually, these discussions of scripture is not to be acted unless there is relationship between the speaker and the audience. So audience means the disciples. Disciple means who accepts the discipline. Sisya. Sisya. The exact Sanskrit word is sisya. A sisya means... There is a verb, Sanskrit verb, which is called sas. Sas means controlling. From sas, the "sastra" comes. Sastra means controlling books. And from sas, sastra. Sastra means weapons. When argument fails, reason fails... Just like the state controls. First of all they give you the laws. If you break the laws, if you don't follow the regulation books, means sastra, then next step is sastra. Sastra means weapons. If you don't follow the regulation of the government, keep to the right, then there is police batons -- sastra. You have to be controlled. If you are gentleman, then you be controlled under the instruction of the sastras. And if you are defying, then there is trident of Durgadevi. You have seen Durgadevi, the picture, trident, threefold miseries. You cannot, I mean to say, violate any rules and regulations; as of the state, similarly of the supreme state Krsna. It is not possible. Just take for example there are some health rules. If we eat more, then you will be controlled by some disease. You'll have indigestion and the doctor will advise you not to eat three days. So there is control -- by nature. Nature means God's law. Automatically working. Foolish people do not see God's law, but there is God's law. The sun is rising just exactly in the time, the moon is rising exactly in the time. The first year, first January, has come exactly in time.

So there is control. But foolish people, they do not see it. Everything is controlled. So to know God and how things are working and how it is being controlled, these things are to be known. We should not go simply by sentiment. Religious sentiment is good for persons who follow blindly. But at the present moment, people are advanced in so-called education. So Bhagavad-gita gives you full information so that you can accept God with your reason, with your argument, with your knowledge. It is not blind following. Krsna consciousness is not a sentiment. It is backed by knowledge and practical knowledge. Vijnanam. Jnanam vijnana sahitam. So without vijnana sahitam... And the process is to understand this knowledge is to be a surrendered soul. Therefore we disciple... Disciple means one who accepts the discipline. Without accepting discipline, we cannot make any progress. It is not possible. Any field of knowledge, any field of activities, if you want to be aware, scientifically and factually, then you should accept the controlling principle. Samagrena vaks ya svarupam sarvokaram yatra dhiyam tad ubhaya-visayakam jnanam vyaktum.

Now here, in this chapter, this is explicitly explained, that who is the supreme worshipable object. We are worshiping. According to our capacity, we are worshiping somebody. At least we are worshiping our boss. Suppose I work in an office or in a factory, I have to worship the boss, I have to abide by his orders. So everyone is worshiping. Now who is the supreme worshipable object, Krsna, how He is supreme worshipable object, that is explained in this chapter. Ya svarupam sarva karam ca yac ca dhiyam tad ubhaya-visayakam jnanam vyaktum atra bhakti-pratijnanam. Therefore if we understand that here is the supreme controller, here is the supreme worshipable object, then the problems of our life is solved at once. We are searching after. Just the other day I told you one story that one Muhammadan devotee, he wanted to serve the greatest. He was serving the Nawab, then he went to the emperor, Barsa(?), then from emperor to Haridasa, a saintly person, and from Haridasa he was promoted to worship Krsna in Vrndavana.

So we should be inquisitive, intelligent enough. We are serving. Everyone, we are serving, at least we are serving our senses. Everyone, practically, they are not serving any boss or any master, they are serving their senses. Suppose if I am serving somebody as my boss, actually I am not serving his money..., serving his person. I am serving his money. If he says, "Tomorrow you have to work free. You are getting twenty dollars a day now. Tomorrow I have no money. You will have to work free." "Ah, no, no, sir. I'm not coming because I am not serving you; I am serving your money." So actually we are serving money. Any why you are serving money? Because with the money we can satisfy our senses. Without money, we cannot satisfy our, these informidable senses. If I want to drink, if I want to enjoy such and such things, then I require money. Therefore ultimately I am serving my senses.

Therefore Krsna is called Govinda. We ultimately want our sense satisfaction, and go means senses. Here is the person, Supreme Personality of Godhead. If you serve Krsna, then your senses become satisfied. Therefore His name is Govinda. Actually, we want to serve our senses, but the real senses, the transcendental senses, is Krsna, Govinda. Therefore bhakti, devotional service, means purifying the senses. To be employed in the service of the supreme pure. The Lord is supreme pure. In the Bhagavad-gita, in the Tenth Chapter you'll find that Krsna is described by Arjuna pavitram paramam bhavan: "You are the supreme pure." So if we want to serve the senses of the supreme pure, then we have to become pure also. Because without... Being pure means spiritual. Spiritual life means pure life, and material life means contaminated life. Just like we have got this body, material body. This is impure body. Therefore we suffer from disease, we suffer from old age, we suffer from birth, we suffer from death. And in our actual, pure form, spiritual form, there is no such suffering. There is no birth, there is no death, there is no disease and there is no old age. In the Bhagavad-gita you have read it, nityah sasvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Nitya. Although I am the oldest, because I am changing my body... I am, as soul, pure. I have no birth, I have no death, but I am simply changing body. Therefore I am the oldest. So although I am the oldest, I have got my new spirit. I am always fresh. This is my position.

So the Krsna consciousness, or devotional service, means purifying the senses. That's all. We haven't got to eradicate, get out of the sensual activities. No. We have simply to purify the senses. How you can get out of the senses? Because you are living entity, the senses are there. But the thing is that at the present moment, because we are materially contaminated, our senses are not getting full enjoyment. This is most scientific. So devotional service means purifying the senses. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nirmalam means purification. How you can purify your senses? That is defined in Narada-bhakti-sutra. It is said that sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam. Purification of the sense means you have to be free from all kinds of designation. Our life is full of designation. Just like I am thinking "I am Indian," I am thinking "I am sannyasi," you are thinking you are American, you are thinking "man," you are thinking "woman," you are thinking "white," you are thinking "black." So many designations. These are all designations. So purifying the senses means to purify the designation. And Krsna consciousness means that "I am neither Indian nor European nor American nor this nor that. I am eternally related with Krsna. I am the part and parcel of Krsna." When we are fully convinced that "I am part and parcel of Krsna," that is Krsna consciousness and that is purification of your senses.

So as part and parcel of Krsna, you have to serve Krsna. That is your pleasure. Now we are trying to satisfy our senses, our material senses. When you become..., realize yourself that you are part and parcel of Krsna, then you'll satisfy the senses of Krsna, Govinda. And by satisfying His senses, your senses will be satisfied. Just like crude example -- this is not spiritual -- just like husband is understood as the enjoyer and the wife is considered as the enjoyed. But if the wife satisfies the senses of the husband, his (her) senses also satisfied. Similarly, just like you have got some itching on the body, and the part of your body, the fingers, itches on that body, the satisfaction also felt by the fingers also. Not that the particular part only is feeling the sensation of satisfaction, but the whole body is feeling this satisfaction sense. Similarly, Krsna being the full, when you satisfy Krsna, sense of Krsna, Govinda, then the satisfaction of the whole universe takes place. This is the science. Tasmin tuste jagat tusta. The another example is just like if you satisfy the stomach in your body, then the whole body is satisfied. The stomach will issue such energy by digestion of the foodstuff that it will transform into blood, it will come into the heart, and from the heart it will be diffused all over the body, and all over the body the depression, the exhaustion which has undergone, that will be satisfied.

So this is the process of Krsna consciousness. This is the science of Krsna consciousness, and Krsna is explaining personally. So yaj jnatva, if we understand the science of Krsna consciousness, then there will be nothing unknown. Everything will be known. It is such a nice thing. Yaj jnatva neha bhuyo 'nyaj jnatavyam avasisyate. Bhuyo means no more to understand anything. Everything is completely known. Then the question may be why people do not understand Krsna. That is, of course, a relevant question, and that is being answered by Krsna in the next verse.

manusyanam sahasresu
kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam
kascin mam vetti tattvatah
[Bg. 7.3]

Manusyanam sahasresu. There are different kinds of men. Just like we know everyone on this planet only, apart from other planets, there are hundreds and thousands varieties of men. Even here we are sitting, so many ladies and gentlemen, there are different varieties. And if you go outside, there are different varieties. If you go to another country -- India, Japan, China -- you'll find different. Therefore it is said, manusyanam sahasresu [Bg. 7.3], out of many, many different varieties of men, kascid yatati siddhaye, only a few persons decide to understand the philosophy of life.

Because man is rational animal. Man is rational. Man is animal, but rational animal. The special gift to man is that he can decide what is good, what is bad. He has got an extra knowledge than the animals. So at the present moment the education system is so bad that it is practically animal education. Animal education means when at the present moment the education system is so bad that it is practically animal education. Animal education means when we are too much interested with eating, sleeping, mating and defending, that is animal education. Eating, sleeping, mating and defending, oh, you'll find in animals. There is no distinction. They have got their own defending measures, they have got their own sleeping measures, they have got their own mating measures. You are mating with your wife in a secluded place, in a nice room, in a decorated room, but a dog is mating on the street, but the result is the same. So to improve the method of mating is not advancement of civilization. That is animal civilization polished, that's all. The animal also, the dog can also defend from other dogs. And if you think that you have discovered atomic energy to defend yourself, that is not advancement of human civilization. The defending measure, that's all. Similarly, you go on analyzing.

The analysis of man is perfect when he is searching after his constitutional position. "What I am? What I am? Am I this body? Why I have come to this world?" This inquisitiveness required. That is the special prerogative of human being. Therefore as soon as one begins to inquire "What I am?" and if he goes on searching after this, then he will come to God. Because he is part and parcel of God. He is sample of God. Therefore manusyanam sahasresu [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many, many thousands varieties of men, one, or say a few persons, may be interested to know God. Not only know... Not to know God, just to know himself. And if he actually wants to know himself, then gradually he will come to God.

So,

manusyanam sahasresu
kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam
kascin vetti mam tattvatah
[Bg. 7.3]

Here it is said that manusyas tesam sastra 'dhikara yajnanam sahasra-madhye. Now, what I am, what is God, what is this material world, how it is working, these things are business of an educated man. A foolish man cannot take. Therefore sastra adhikara. Sastra means one has got some knowledge in the sastras, in the books of knowledge. As soon as we find out one who has got books of knowledge, knowledge in books, or sastra, the quantity will be at once reduced. In this quarter if you find out how many noneducated people are there, oh, you'll find many. And as soon as you want to find out how many M.A.'s are there, at once the number will be reduced. Similarly, there are many men, but if you want to search out some man who is trying to make perfection of his life, at once the number will be reduced. And out of them Just like so many transcendentalists, swamis, yogis there are. If you count amongst them who wants to understand God, who has got the knowledge of God, at once the number will be reduced. Again.

Therefore Krsna says that out of many, many thousands of people, somebody is interested for making perfection of his life. And out of many, many thousands of men who are actually trying to make perfection of their life, you'll find somebody -- or you may not find out -- who knows God or Krsna. But Krsna is so kind that He comes Himself to be known by everyone. And He's so kind also that before His departure from this material world, He leaves behind Him this Bhagavad-gita so that you can know from His personal talks what is God. So if you read Bhagavad-gita rightly, as it is spoken by Krsna, not foolishly interpreting nonsensically, but as it is, as it is... Call the spade a spade. Krsna says that "I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Don't interpret this version with your foolish interpretation, but accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And by His acts, by His sastric knowledge, wisdom... Everyone accepted previously, all the acaryas.

So we have to follow the footprints of the acaryas. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah. We cannot understand higher things unless we follow the footprint of great personalities. Just like even in the scientific world, the law of gravitation. You do not know anything about law of gravitation, but Sir Isaac Newton, he said that there is law of gravitation. You accept it. That's all. That means you follow a great personality. Similarly, Krsna should be accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead not by whims. But He has been accepted like by personalities like Lord Caitanya, Ramanujacarya, Sankaracarya, great personalities who are guiding the destiny of spiritual world. Therefore you have to accept in that way.

So we shall discuss next... Quarter past eight?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: If there is any question, you can put.

Guest: Swami? You say that Krsna consciousness is a system of purifying the senses. Does that mean that the senses become unlimited? Do the senses become unlimited when they're finally purified?

Prabhupada: There is no question of unlimited, but at least it becomes purified. First of all purify. Then the limit of senses will be also extended. Just like if your eye is defective. So you cannot see; you require the help of glass. But if the disease of your eye is cured, oh, you can see without glass. But that does not mean that you can see for hundred miles. But at least you can see perfectly. You don't require the help of glass. Similarly, so long your senses are impure, you are completely in ignorance, you do not know what you are, what is this world, what is God -- simply in darkness. Just like dull stone. Ignorance means dull stone. So if your senses are purified, at least you can know who is God, what you are, what is this world, what is your relationship. These things will be revealed. Not that you can become the supreme controller. No. That is not possible. Purifying the senses means at least you can know your self, you know the controller, know the controlling system. These things will be revealed.

Guest: I have a question. If one wanted to redistribute Krsna's property by taking from the rich and giving to the poor, in doing so all you'd have to do is make maybe one or two false statements. Is this...

Prabhupada: Why you are anxious to take rich man's property?

Guest: Pardon?

Prabhupada: Why you are anxious to take rich man's property? (laughter)

Guest: It belongs to the state. It's unemployment insurance.

Prabhupada: Unemployment insurance company has ordered you to take the state...?

Guest: I could get this, you see, if I would make a few false statements that I was looking for work when I have not been looking for work.

Prabhupada: Well, one who is making false statement, he'll suffer for that.

Guest: Even if...

Prabhupada: Yes?

Guest: Even if it's for a good cause?

Prabhupada: You should not be anxious to anything which is not ordered by Krsna. That is your Krsna consciousness. You don't manufacture your activities. Then you'll be entangled. Yes?

Devotee: Swami, would you initiate me?

Prabhupada: Will you follow the rules? Thank you. I shall do. Yes?

Devotee: Swami, spiritual energy is situated in the heart as localized Paramatma. Is this also Krsna's personal feature?

Prabhupada: Yes. Paramatma is also personal. Everything is personal. Paramatma is described as four-handed Narayana with sankha, cakra, gada, padma, with, I mean to say, ornaments. That is the feature of Paramatma. You have seen the Visnu-murti. That is Paramatma. This voidness is an imagination, voidness. Actually God or Paramatma or Krsna, They are all sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah, transcendental forms. They are not material forms. Transcendental forms. Isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1]. Vigraha means form. If we, part and parcel of Krsna, we have got individuality, forms, how we can say that the Supreme has no form, no individuality? He has got complete individuality. And that is confirmed in the Vedas: nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. He is the supreme living entity of all living entities. Just like we are living entities, but He is the Supreme. That's all. He is also living entity. Nityo nitya cetanas cetananam. The difference is eko bahunam vidadhati kaman. That one single There are plural number and singular number. That singular number one is providing the necessities of other singular number, plural number living entities. That is the difference. He is the maintainer, He is the predominator, He is the controller, and we are controlled, we are predominated, and we are maintained. That is the difference between me and God. Otherwise He is a living being just like us. He is more powerful. The most powerful, the most beautiful, the most famous, the most strong, and we are all subordinate. Therefore His name is asamordhva. Asamordhva means nobody is equal or greater than Him. Everyone is subordinate to Him. And in the Bhagavad-gita it is said that aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "I am the origin of everything." Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. These things are there in Vedic literature. Yes?

Gargamuni: Swami, it says in the Gita that when Krsna comes, He comes to achieve a certain mission and then He leaves.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Gargamuni: It says in the Gita when Krsna... He comes to achieve a certain mission and then He leaves. In the Bhagavatam it says that at the disappearance of Lord Krsna everything fell down, everyone was dejected, and Arjuna was crying, in such... Well, if He comes to achieve a certain mission and then when He leaves it all falls down again...

Prabhupada: Not immediately. Just like here the nature is working in that way. You build a very nice house. Gradually, the nature's course is it will become old and you'll fall down. This is the way of nature here. You cannot keep anything fresh always. So, so long Krsna or God is present, or His representative is present, the affairs of the world go very nicely. But as soon as they disappear again the same system begins, dwindling. Begins... By the power... Just like so long the sun is there, there is no darkness, but as soon as the sun is away from your sight, at once the darkness comes. Because the whole atmosphere is darkness. It is by artificial means or by arrangement of God we are keeping it light. This room, if at once the electric fails, oh, it will be dark, because its nature is darkness. Its nature is darkness. Therefore Vedas say, "Don't keep yourself in this darkness. Just get out of this. Come to the light." Tamasi ma jyotir gama. Just come to the light. That is spiritual kingdom. So Krsna comes to give you information of that spiritual kingdom, that "Life is like this." Just like Krsna displayed at Vrndavana. Everyone is happy, enjoying. So He displays the spiritual life to attract you. So our business should be to be attracted by Him and prepare ourself to go back to Godhead, go back to home. Not that because Krsna came here, He has left some instruction, we shall stick here. You must give up this idea. Krsna gives you opportunity how you can live peacefully here. But that does not mean that you make your permanent settlement here. Then you are doomed. You take the advantage of Krsna's instruction and prepare yourself so that tyaktva deham punar janma naiti: [Bg. 4.9] after leaving this body, no more coming here. Bas. You go. You are transferred to Krsnaloka. We should prepare in that way. That is the solution of problem. Otherwise, if you want to live in this material world, this nature is like that. Bhutva bhutva praliyate. It is manifested at a certain period, again it is destroyed. And there is destroying, I mean to say, process. So Krsna comes, He sets right everything. But the nature of this world is like that. It becomes again deteriorated. Deteriorated. So? Let us have sankirtana. Govinda jaya jaya gopala jaya jaya. Let that girl come here. Come on, come on. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 7.2 -- San Francisco, September 11, 1968