"Curing The Material Disease"

69/01/09 Lod Angeles, Bhagavad-gita 4.19-25


Prabhupada: Page? Hm? Who will read? You'll read? Yes. Which page?

Devotee: One-hundred-twenty-three.

Devotee: "Transcendental Knowledge." Text number nineteen. "One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every act is devoid of desire for sense gratification. He is said by sages to be a worker whose fruitive action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge."

Prabhupada: "One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every act is devoid of desire for sense gratification." The opposite is ignorance. Those who are in knowledge of sense gratification they are devoid of knowledge. Yes. "He is said by sages to be a worker whose fruitive action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge." "He is said by sages to be a worker whose fruitive action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge." This is very common thing. Everyone has to act but if he acts in full knowledge then that is perfection of activity.

Just like in our ordinary life if we do business or whatever we do if we are in full knowledge of the state laws and act accordingly, that is perfection of our activities. Go on.

Devotee: Twenty: "Abandoning all attachment to the results of his activities, ever satisfied and independent, he performs no fruitive action, although engaged in all kinds of undertakings."

Prabhupada: Yes. "Abandoning all attachment to the results of the activities." Everyone is aspiring some result of his activity. So the plain example is suppose you are working in an office. So you are not concerned with the result. You have to simply do your duty. The result, the ultimate profit or loss of that establishment is concern for the proprietors or directors. But your duty is that the post which you are occupying, you must do your work very nicely. That's your duty. Without being attached to the result. The result will be enjoyed by the proprietors of that establishment. Go on.

Devotee: Twenty-one: "Such a man of understanding acts with mind and intelligent perfectly controlled, gives up all sense of proprietorship over his possessions and acts only for the bare necessities of life. Thus working, he is not affected by sinful reaction."

Prabhupada: Yes. Suppose a man is a manager, a cashier in the bank. He is receiving millions of dollars daily but he does not claim the proprietorship. He is simply handling millions of dollars but he knows that "I am not the proprietor."

Similarly, in our this material activities we may have the chance of handling millions of dollars practically nobody comes here with millions of dollars, neither one goes with millions of dollars. Everyone comes here empty-hand. The child comes empty-hand and the dead body goes empty-hand. So between the birth and death this small duration of life we are supposed to possess so many things. That is our false possession. Actually you don't possess.

Just like so long I am cashier in the bank I am supposed to deal with millions of dollars but that is not my money. In this consciousness, this is Krsna consciousness. To understand everything belongs to Krsna. If one acts in that way that everything... Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. The Isopanisad says everything belongs to God but God has given me chance to handle these things. Therefore my knowledge and intelligence will be there if I utilize for serving God. That is my intelligence. As soon as I utilize them for my sense gratification then I am entrapped. The same example can be given. If the bank cashier thinks, "Oh, so many millions of dollars at my disposal. Let me something and put in my pocket," then he is entrapped. Otherwise you enjoy. You get good salary.

You get good comforts and do your work nicely for Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness. Everything should be considered as Krsna's. Not a farthing mine. That is Krsna conscious. Yes.

Devotee: "He who is satisfied with gain which comes of its own accord, who is free from duality and does not envy, who is steady both in success and failure, who is never entangled although performing actions."

Prabhupada: Yes. Now if I think that I am poor man. Oh, the bank proprietor and directors they have got so much money. The theory of the communist theory. They have tried to attack others that they have snatched our money. Actually one should be satisfied. Just like a bank clerk or a bank cashier should be satisfied with his post and the wages he gets. He should be satisfied. If God pleases he will be elevated to higher position. That is God's grace. But we should not be disturbed. We should be santas... And thus disturbance can be checked only if we are in Krsna consciousness.

You'll be surprised in 1942 there was an artificial famine in India by politicians and practically they were starving. And one American gentleman, very responsible man, he was present. He said that "In our country if such starvation would have happened there would have been revolution." But the Vedic culture is so nice that nobody even stole a pin from others pocket. They starved. Because the culture is they are satisfied. "Well, God has put me in this condition. Why shall I encroach upon other's property?" That is Vedic culture. Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. Everything belongs to God. Whatever He has allotted to me, that is my possession. I can... tena tyaktena bhunjitha: "Whatever is allotted to you, be satisfied." Ma grdhah kasya svid dhanam: "You do not encroach upon other's property."

If anyone is satisfied in this way in Krsna consciousness where is the question of stealing? There is no question of stealing. There is no need of law for the thieves. People will become so honest. He will be satisfied.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is all pervading. Either you take socially, politically, religiously, scientifically, philosophically -- any way you take. Just like sandalwood. Sandalwood you rub it on the stone in any way the pulp will be flavored. It is not that if you rub the wood on the stone in this way then the pulp will come flavored. No.

Krsna consciousness is so nice, if you apply it in any field of activities you will see it is perfect. Either you apply in industry or in politics or in sociology or in philosophy or in science. Therefore Bhagavata says that whatever capacity you may have, either you are a scientist or a lawyer or an engineer or a rich man, a capitalist, whatever you may be. Your duty is to utilize your talent for Krsna consciousness. That's all. That is perfection. Yes.

Devotee: Purport: "A Krsna conscious person does not make much endeavor even to maintain his body. He is satisfied with gains which are obtained of their own accord. He neither begs nor borrows but he labors honestly as far as in his own power and is satisfied with whatever is obtained by his own honest labor. A Krsna conscious person is therefore independent in his livelihood. He does not allow anyone's service to hamper his own service to Krsna. However for the service of the Lord He can participate in any kind of action without being disturbed by the duality of the material world. The duality of the material is felt in terms of heat and cold or misery and happiness. A Krsna conscious person is above this duality because he does not hesitate to act in any way for the satisfaction of Krsna. As he does not care for duality therefore he is steady both in success and in failure. These signs are visible when one is full in transcendental knowledge."

Twenty-three: "The work of a man who is unattached to the modes of material nature and who is fully situated in transcendental knowledge merges entirely into transcendence."

Prabhupada: Yes. "The work of a man who is unattached to the modes of material nature." The modes of material nature are three: goodness, passion, and ignorance. Somebody is working in the material world in the quality of goodness. In Vedic culture these divisions are very distinct. Just like brahmanas, sannyasis. They are supposed to be working in goodness because they are simply working for Krsna consciousness or Krsna consciousness, brahmanas business.

The ksatriyas, they are working in the modes of passion. They want to possess land, they want to be king, they want to be leader of the citizens, and they see to the protection of the citizens. This is called in the mode of passion.

And the third degree is the mercantile community. They are engaged in trades, commerce.

In this way the fourth grade of man is the laborer class. They have no capacity either to become brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya. They have to take shelter of somebody and must be satisfied with the wages he takes from that.

In this age the Vedic literature says kalau sudra-sambhavah. In this age practically everyone is a sudra, laborer class because everyone is dependent. The brahmana, ksatriya and vaisya, they are not dependent but laborer class, they are dependent. So because this human civilization at the present moment is so made that everyone is dependent. Nobody is self-sufficient. One has to work somewhere for his livelihood.

So in this age practically everyone is dependent or laborer class. Now here it is said that "the work of a man who is unattached to the modes of material nature." Now this division, brahmana, ksatriya vaisya, or the intelligent class, the administrative class, mercantile class and the laborer class. You say in any way. These are material activities. But when you engage yourself in Krsna consciousness, either you are a brahmana, ksatriya or vaisya or sudra, then you are transcendental immediately.

Just like in this body there are different parts and section. The head. Head is one section. The arm, another section. The abdomen, another section. The legs, another section. So the leg is considered to be laborer class carrying me. The hand is working, protecting me. The brain is giving me intelligence. In this way every part is working for the whole body.

Similarly either you become intelligent class of men or you become administrator or you become mercantile class or laborer, if you engage yourself in Krsna consciousness then your position is transcendental. You are no more in the material nature. This is the process of transcendental position. Go on.

Devotee: "To him Brahman, the Supreme is the offering, Brahman is the oblation and the sacrificial fire and by Brahman the sacrifice is performed. By performing action in this way one ultimate attains the supreme."

Purport: "A person who is fully absorbed in Krsna consciousness is sure to attain the spiritual kingdom through his full contribution to spiritual activities for the consummation is absolute and the things offered are also of the same spiritual nature. How activities in Krsna consciousness can lead one ultimately to the spiritual goal is described here. There are various activities in Krsna consciousness. All of them will be described in the following verses. But for the present just the principle of Krsna consciousness is described. The conditioned soul entangled in material contamination is sure to act in the material atmosphere and yet he has to get out of such an environment. The process by which the conditioned soul can get out of the material atmosphere is Krsna consciousness. For example, a person who is suffering from a disorder of the bowels..."

Prabhupada: "A patient. A patient. A patient who is suffering."

Devotee: Oh. "For example, a patient who is suffering from a disorder of the bowels due to overindulgence in milk products is cured by another milk product, curd. Similarly, the materially absorbed conditioned soul can be cured by Krsna consciousness as is prescribed here in the Bhagavad-gita."

Prabhupada: Yes. It is a very good example. Sometimes... In India of course, out of our greediness we take too much milk products -- khir and sweet rice and burfi, pranal[?], so many. So if you take too much milk then there is possibility of dysentery, disorder of the bowel. Ghee. Therefore when you go the physician he will give you some medicine and he will ask you to take this medicine with yogurt. Now what is this yogurt? This yogurt is also milk preparation. Now you can doubt how is that? My disorder of bowel is due to taking too much milk preparation. How it will be cured by yogurt? So this is the way. The yogurt is a, although milk preparation, it's action is different.

Similarly, you will find that these boys and girls acting in Krsna consciousness, what they are doing? They have rented a nice house which is called temple. They are cooking there, eating there, dancing and singing. The outsider they will say, "What is this Krsna consciousness? They are living in the nice house and they are eating very nicely, dancing, singing. What is the difference? We also do that. We go to the club and eat very nicely and dance also. What is the difference?" There is the difference. What is that difference? The one milk preparation causes disorder, another milk preparation cures. This is practical. Another milk preparation cures you.

If you go on dancing in the club and eating in the club gradually you become diseased materially. And the same dancing and same eating here you become spiritually advanced. So nothing has to be stopped. Simply it has to be changed by the direction of an expert physician. That's all. The expert physician gives you yogurt mixed with some medicine. Actually medicine is just to bluff the patient. Actually the yogurt will act.

So similarly we have to do everything but because it is mixed up with that medicine of Krsna consciousness it will cure your material disease. That is the process. Because it is mixed up with some medicine which is called Krsna consciousness therefore your dancing, your eating, your loving affairs -- all, whatever you want there is but it is well-treated. It will not entangle you. It will give more and more enlightenment of spiritual understanding. This is Krsna consciousness. Yes.

Devotee: This process is generally known as yajna or activities simply meant for the satisfaction of Visnu or Krsna. Therefore the more the activities of the material world are performed in Krsna consciousness or for Visnu only, the more the atmosphere becomes spiritualized by complete absorption. Brahman means spiritual. The Lord is spiritual and the rays of His transcendental body are called brahmajyoti, His spiritual effulgence. Everything that exists is situated in that brahmajyoti. And when the jyoti is covered by the illusion of maya or sense gratification it is called material."

Prabhupada: Now, this is the difference between material and spiritual. Try to understand. Just like in the sunshine there is cloud. That cloudy atmosphere is not very good. But when there is bright sunshine you say, congratulate your friend, "Oh, today is very nice day." The sunshine is always there. The cloud also is an interaction of the sunshine. The cloud is nothing but due to excessive heat it absorbs water from the sea or anywhere else and it becomes gas and it stands in the sunshine. But it does not cover all the sunshine.

Similarly Krsna consciousness is the original consciousness. As soon as it is clouded by material consciousness. What is that material consciousness? That "It is mine. It is for my sense gratification. That is material consciousness." And if you keep yourself always intact that everything is for Krsna, then there is no cloud. The cloud is material. Actually there is no material existence. Just like cloud appears in the sky. It remains temporary for a few day or few hours and again disappears. We do not know where that cloud has gone.

Similarly, material consciousness is the covering of the spirit soul. So as soon as this covering is taken away the bright sunshine is there, the cloud. As soon as the cloud is gone the bright sunshine is there. Then everything is sunshine, light. Similarly, as soon as this consciousness, material consciousness that everything belongs for my satisfaction, sense gratification, that is material. And if you are in Krsna consciousness that is spiritual. The things does not change. Simply the consciousness changes. Just like the sunshine does not change. Simply the cloud changes. It appears and disappears. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. So if you keep yourself always in bright sunshine. Just like if you go above the cloud as you have experience by plane journey that you go above the cloud and there you will find simply sunshine, no more cloud, no more cloud. So just keep yourself in Krsna consciousness and this cloud of material existence will disappear or you will be above, even you can see them, that will not affect you. This is the process. Go on.

Devotee: "This material feature can be removed at once by Krsna consciousness. Wherein the offering for the cause of Krsna consciousness the consuming agent of such an offering or contribution, the process of consumption, the contributor, and the result of such activities are all combined together Brahman or the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth covered by maya is called matter. Matter dovetailed for the cause of the Absolute Truth regains its spiritual quality. Krsna consciousness is a process of converting the illusory consciousness into Brahman or the Supreme. When the mind is fully absorbed in such Krsna consciousness it is said to be in samadhi or trance. Anything done in such transcendental consciousness is called yajna or sacrifice for the absolute and in that condition of spiritual consciousness the contributor, the contribution, the consumption, the performer or leader of the performance, and the results or ultimate gain, everything becomes one in the Absolute, the Supreme Brahman. That is the explanation of Krsna consciousness."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee: Twenty-five.

Prabhupada: Go on.

Devotee: "Some yogis perfectly worship the demigods by offering different sacrifices to them and some of them offer sacrifices in the fire of the Supreme Brahman."

Purport: "As described above, a person engaged in discharging duties in Krsna consciousness is also called a perfect yogi or a first-class mystic. But there are others also who perform similar sacrifices in the worship of demigods, and still others who sacrifice to the Supreme Brahman, or the impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord. So there are different kinds of sacrifices in terms of different categories. Such different categories of sacrifice by different types of performers only superficially demark varieties of sacrifice. Factual sacrifice means to satisfy the Supreme Lord, Visnu and is also known as yajna."

Prabhupada: Just like a small example. Now you are paying some tax in the waterworks department. So this waterworks department or the director of the waterworks department may be considered as a demigod. But the money you sacrifice for payment in the waterworks department, that goes to the government. The waterworks department or the man in charge, director of the waterworks department does not consume that.

Similarly in the Vedic rituals there are many sacrificial ritualistic ceremony, demigods, but in that sacrifice there is Visnu also. Therefore Visnu is called Yajnesvara, the master of the sacrifice. The demigods cannot accept the result of the sacrifice. Visnu is there. Of course, we have no experience of these performances. That is a Vedic ritual performance. Actually the demigods, they cannot accept anything from you. But the sacrificer, he approaches a demigod for quick result for material benefit and these things will be explained in the Eighth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gita.

So this is the process. Ultimately it goes to the Absolute Truth. So those who are intelligent, they directly makes connection with the Absolute Person or the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna. Then everything is automatically done. Go on.

Devotee: "All the different varieties of sacrifice can be placed within two primary divisions: sacrifice of worldly possessions and sacrifice in pursuit of transcendental knowledge. Those who are in Krsna consciousness sacrifice all material possessions for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, while others, who want some temporary material happiness sacrifice their material possessions to satisfy demigods such as Indra, the sun, etc. And others who are impersonalists sacrifice in the sense of merging into the existence of impersonal Brahman. The demigods are powerful living entities appointed by the Supreme Lord for the maintenance and supervision of all material functions like heating, watering, and lighting of the universe. Those who are interested in such supplies of material benefits worship the demigods by various sacrifices according to the Vedic rituals. They are called bahv-isvara-vadi, or believers in many gods."

Prabhupada: Bahv-isvara-vadi. Bahv-isvara-vadi means believing in many gods. Actually God is one but His servants who are known as demigods. So less intelligent class of men they accept demigods as God. Just like a less intelligent class of men takes a police constable, he raises his hand like this and the car is stopped even it belong to a great rich man. So his child may think that "This constable is very great man. You see. He is very important man." But the father knows he is nothing. Similarly, those who are interested in demigods they are like children. "Oh, this constable is very important." You see. "Because by his hand my father had to stop my car." You see.

So the antavat tu phalam tesam [Bg. 7.23]. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita you'll find there is a statement, kamais tais tair hrta-jnana yajanti anya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. "Those who go to worship the demigods they have lost their intelligence on account of too much lusty propensity."

Just like sometimes a person goes to bribe the policeman, constable, because he is illegal. But if you become, I mean to say, true to your state laws you haven't got to bribe the constable or this officer, that officer. You see.

So you be true Krsna conscious. Then there will be no disturbance from these demigods. But less intelligent class of men in order to save themself from the disturbance of the demigods -- there are many varieties of demigods -- they go to this, to that, to this, to that. But an intelligent man... That is also stated. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate: [Bg. 7.19] "One who is perfectly intelligent, after many many births of culturing knowledge he comes to Me and surrenders." Yes. Vasudevah sarvam iti: [Bg. 7.19] "O Krsna, you are everything." That is the highest intelligence. So Caitanya-caritamrta says krsna ye bhaje sei vara catura: "Anyone who is engaged in Krsna consciousness is very intelligent man." Very intelligent man. Krsna ye bhaje sei vara catura. Catura means intelligent. Go on.

Devotee: "Whereas others who stick to the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth and regard the forms of the demigods as temporary sacrifice their individual selves in the supreme fire and thus end their individual existences by merging into the existence of the Supreme. Such impersonalists relinquish their time in philosophical speculation for understanding the transcendental nature of the Supreme. In other words, the fruitive workers sacrifice their material possessions for material enjoyments whereas the impersonalist sacrifices his material designations with a view to merging into the existence of the Supreme. For the impersonalist the fire, altar, and the sacrifice is the Supreme Brahman and the offering is the self being consumed by the fire of Brahman. The Krsna conscious person, however, sacrifices everything for the satisfaction of Krsna and as such all his material possessions as well as his own self, everything, are sacrificed for Krsna as with Arjuna. Thus he is the first-class yogi for he does not lose his individual existence."

Prabhupada: That's it. Question? Yes?

Devotee: (indistinct) eternally individual, so how do the impersonalists [?] attaining their goal merge into the impersonal brahmajyoti?

Prabhupada: That is their sign of less intelligence. Therefore we call the impersonalist as less intelligent. Just like the same example, the child is thinking that the constable is very important man. Similarly, the impersonalists are less intelligent in this sense, that what is this brahmajyoti? The brahmajyoti is combination of atomic spiritual sparks. Just like sunshine is combination of molecular shining particles. This is scientific. Anything you take, either take sunshine or fire or water, you'll find atomic, even earth, they are all atomic, small, very small parts. Similarly, the brahmajyoti is combination of the atomic spiritual sparks who are individual living entities.

So they may merge into that existence of brahmajyoti but because every individual living entity has got individual desires, therefore they cannot exist very long in that individual condition, I mean to say, impersonal condition. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah [SB 10.2.32]. Any person who is thinking that by merging, or one who has already merged into the brahmajyoti, he has become liberated. Bhagavata says that is not intelligence, what to speak of liberation. He says ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah. Vimukta-maninah means he is simply falsely thinking that he is liberated. Maninah. Just like you think yourself, just like so many rascals, he is thinking, "I am God," you see. "I am God."

So this is only thinking. Actually they do not know what is God. Otherwise they would not have dared to say that "I am God." They do not know the meaning of God. You see. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are thinking, "I am merged into the..." Just like the rabbit. The rabbit when he is faced with some enemy he closes his eyes. He thinks, "Now I am safe." (laughter) The rascal animal thinks that he is safe now. "I cannot see the enemy."

Just like a child. When there is something fearful the child, it is nature, closes the eyes. I have practical experience. When I was young man I went to the zoo with my little son and as soon as there was a tiger cage, oh, the child closed the eyes. Yes. He could not bear the vicious sight. This is natural.

Similarly, these impersonalists they are closing their eyes. That's all. Just like voidists, they are also doing that. "Now I have become free by smoking or by ganja eating, drinking, or smoking." You see? These things are simply false imagination. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are not intelligent. Bhagavata says ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah. They are self-complacent that "I have become free, liberated," this and that. But actually their intelligence is very contaminated.

Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah. They are simply thinking like that. Maninah. Maninah means actually he is not, but he's thinking. You can think that "I am the proprietor of all the banks of this Los Angeles city." You can think. Who checks you? But are you actually the proprietor of all the banks of this Los Angeles city? Anyone can think intoxication like anything. He has got the liberty. But that is not the fact.

So ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah [SB 10.2.32]. Their intelligence is contaminated because they have no information of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So long one does not reach to that point, vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], "Oh, Krsna is everything." It can take some time but unless you reach to that point your all intelligence is imperfect. Your knowledge is imperfect. That you must know. Therefore one who takes Krsna, he is most intelligent. Tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah, aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah [SB 10.2.32].

Just like these foolish men, they are going very high on sputniks and other machine but they cannot find out the shelter and come back. You see. But they are thinking, "Oh, we are so much advanced in science. We go so high." You go high, what is your result? You come back again. They will be puffed up. "Yes, it will be perfect in so many years, in this way and that way." They will never accept defeat. But actually you see they go and come back, that's all.

Similarly these foolish persons who are thinking that "I shall merge into the brahmajyoti," they are less intelligent because they cannot exist there. He has got inclination, desires. There is no facility for fulfilling your desires unless you go to Krsna. Therefore in order to fulfill the desires he'll come again to this material world. Because he wants activities, pleasure. Ananda-mayo 'bhyasat. The spirit soul and the Supreme Lord is by nature joyful. Whenever there is question of joyfulness there must be varieties. So there is no variety. So without variety he cannot remain therefore very long. He has to come. But because he has no information of the spiritual varieties he is bound to come back to this material variety. That's all. So therefore their intelligence is less. They are not very high class men. Yes. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.19-25 -- Los Angeles, January 9, 1969