Disciple--Discipline

Mayapura, March 7, 1976

download  Players

Take a test

---

Hrdayananda: ...puffed up with knowledge.Prabhupada: What is their knowledge, nonsense? He has know...? Have they knowledge?
Bhagavan: They're trying to prove that sense gratification is bona fide.
Guru-krpa: ...and the explanation of...
Prabhupada: And where is sense gratification? As soon as nature kicks you out, where is your sense gratification?
Hrdayananda: It's a relative thing. Actually, compared to the ordinary man, he's much more intelligent.
Prabhupada: What is intelligence?
Hrdayananda: He's thinking that "I know so many things, and these other people, they don't know these things. Therefore I'm better than them."
Prabhupada: So the birds and beasts, they know better than you many things. There are many birds and beasts.
Guru-krpa: "They can't... They can't explain it."
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guru-krpa: "They can't explain it."
Prabhupada: You also cannot explain. What is explaining? All nonsense.
Guru-krpa: "Well, I can explain."
Prabhupada: "Perhaps." "Might be." "It was like this and that..." What is that explanation?
Guru-krpa: Well, the common man doesn't challenge that.
Prabhupada: Mean common men are fool. But why we should accept?
Bhagavan: If they could really explain it, so many things would not be going wrong.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhagavan: If they could actually explain it, so many things would not be going wrong. The thing is, their explanation causes more problems.
Satsvarupa: But they say that..., When we say that everything is done by Krsna, they say that's also "perhaps, maybe." They don't see...
Prabhupada: No, we have got evidence. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. We have got evidence.
Satsvarupa: As we don't accept theirs, they don't accept ours.
Prabhupada: You don't accept... You don't... Why shall I accept you? You don't accept me, I don't accept you. Why you become authority?
Guru-krpa: Then they say "Finished. Get out."
Prabhupada: Yes. No, my question is that "Why they become atheists, a little knowledge, so-called scientists?"
Madhudvisa: They have to become atheists.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Madhudvisa: They have to become atheist. If they don't become atheists, then they can't play their games anymore. The idea of their research finishes as soon as you admit that there is God. But if you say, "There's no God," then they can research. It was explained that...
Prabhupada: They can continue to befool you, that, and take money. And as soon as you don't give them money, there is no research. Then they starve.
Pusta Krsna: We've seen, though, from examples in the Vedic literatures like Visvakarma and Ayur Vedic medicine, that it's possible to engage in architecture, medicine, such activities, without being atheistic. So it must not simply be that they're scientists, but that they're actually...
Bhagavan: Demons.
Pusta Krsna: Demons.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Asuram bhavam asritah [Bg. 7.15].
Yasodanandana: The actual motive is to fill the belly.
Prabhupada: Moghasa mogha-karmanah.
Bhagavan: Actually they're envious, because they say that "There is no Supreme Person controlling," but then, on the other hand, they want to become the supreme person controlling.
Prabhupada: They cannot.
Bhagavan: So it's just a matter of envy.
Pusta Krsna: Who was that demon? He got some benediction from Lord Siva. [break] Anyone he touched, his head would fall off, but he wanted to use it against Lord Siva. [break]
Prabhupada: When one is jealous of God, then gradually jealous of everyone.
Pusta Krsna: Jealousy.
Prabhupada: Jealousy, yes.
Siddha-svarupananda: So then, if I'm jealous of others, it's really just a reflection of my jealousy of Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Siddha-svarupananda: And if I am angry at others, it's because I'm angry at Krsna also.
Prabhupada: Everything begins from Krsna. Mattah sarvam pravartate.

Prabhupada: Discipline... Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must... That should be uniform. Otherwise, sisya... Sisya, the word sisya, it comes from the root, verb, sas-dhatu. Sas. Sas means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. Sastra. Sastra means weapon, and sastra, scripture, and sisya... These things have come from the one root sas-dhatu. So sas-dhatu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that "Obedience is the first law of discipline," or something. They say, "Obedience is the first law of discipline"? So I am right? "Obedience is..."? That is the...

Tamala Krsna: Yes, that's more or less what it is.

Prabhupada: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. "Obedience is the first law of discipline." So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. Disciple means one who follows the discipline. So...

Siddha-svarupa: So there is no disagreement with that. I have no disagreement.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is the point. That is...

Siddha-svarupa: But I consider that discipline and the person being disciplined must be voluntary. He must voluntarily put himself under someone's discipline.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is... Accepting spiritual master means voluntarily accepting somebody to rule him. There is no question... I have no power to rule over you unless you voluntarily surrender.

Siddha-svarupa: Yes.

Prabhupada: I am Indian. Why, you Americans, you should obey me? You have done it voluntarily. Yes. So, (chuckles) in India they appreciate me only on this point, that I am Indian; how I am controlling so many Americans? That is their appreciation. (laughter) So this acceptance of guru means voluntarily surrender. Yes. Sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. The instruction is there in the... They were friends, Krsna and Arjuna. From material point of view, they are equal. He is also belonging to the royal family, he is also belonging to the royal family, and they are cousin brothers, equal footing, friend. But still, Arjuna said, "Now there is no solution. I become Your disciple." Sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam: "I surrender." And this is sisya, surrender. And then lessons on Bhagavad-gita began. So we have to surrender voluntarily; otherwise discipline cannot be implemented. That is wanted. Sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam.

Guru-krpa: Srila Prabhupada, it mentions in The Nectar of Devotion that in the viddhi-marga there are many things we don't want to do but we must do in order to make advancement.

Prabhupada: No, that is also modern government, democracy. I do not want to do something, but the Parliament pass the laws. We have to do, even I do not like. That is discipline. Just like C. R. Das. C. R. Das was one of the prominent member of Indian Congress. So he was earning in those days, fifty years ago, fifty thousand rupees per month. It is twenty times now increased. Fifty years before he was...

Tamala Krsna: Nowadays ten lakhs per month.

Prabhupada: At least five lakhs he was earning. So the Congress resolution was that "noncooperation," so "Boycott British court. We are not going on." So resolution that everyone should give up practice of law in the British court. Resolution. So C. R. Das did not like that idea. He said that "I am earning fifty thousand. I can give the whole amount for Congress propaganda. Why you are asking me to give up this practice?" So the resolution was, "No, we should noncooperate. We don't want money. We should noncooperate." So when... He fought in the meeting that "This should be withdrawn." So it was not withdrawn. Then he resigned. Then he resigned. He became practically poverty-stricken, because he was earning fifty thousand rupees per month, and he had no practice, and he was not keeping any money in the bank. When he resigned, then some of his friend, Muhammad Ali... He was also one of the prominent members. He asked, "Mr. Das, what is your bank balance?" So he replied, "I do not know what is my bank balance, but I know I am debtor to the bank by two lakhs." The bank was giving him credit, so this was his position. So my point is that when the... He fought his best that "This resolution should be withdrawn, boycott of British court," but it was not done. But although he was very strong protester, still he had to do it. This is modern democracy. If the majority votes is in favor of something, even if I do not like it, I'll have to accept it. That is, of course, the so-called democracy. That..., we do not accept that. Our obedience is to the spiritual master. So in this way we should... If there is any misunderstanding, this should be adjusted and we should work wholeheartedly, because our responsibility is very great. We are trying to contribute something to the whole world. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- March 7, 1976, Mayapur

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

One Should Give To Temple

Mayapura, March 12, 1976

download  Players

Take a test

---

Pancadravida:...are also engaged in serving Krsna. They give flower, and they're offering: "Take this flower. Offer to Krsna." This is service, dedicating. This is explained by Krsna to Balarama while going through the Vrndavana forest, that "Just see how the trees are welcoming You, how the birds..." You have got that picture?Hrdayananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: Krsna is seeing that, how everyone is ready to serve. Similarly, Krsna-bhakta also sees how everyone is eager to serve Krsna. [ ...engage them rightly, that is leadership. Yes. Otherwise andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. As a blind leader is leading other blind men, this whole world is going on like that. They do not know how to properly lead the people. Misleaders. [break] ...grains, cows, all they should be very properly taken care of and the products offered to Krsna. Everyone should be engaged as Krsna's servant. That is Vrndavana. In Vrndavana everyone is engaged how to please Krsna. That is Vrndavana. [break] ...business to study Vedanta. In Vrndavana life we see they were not interested to know what is Brahman. They were interested how to please Krsna, how to see Krsna smiling. That is Vrndavana. Huh? Is it not? From Vrndavana picture you see they are simply busy to see how Krsna is smiling. They didn't care for studying. What they will study? They were all village girls born in the ordinary class, and they did not know. [break] That is the... Aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatah kim: [Narada-pancaratra] "If Krsna is served, then where is the necessity of tapasya?" No more tapasya. Tapasya is meant for the third-grade men to come to the stage of serving Krsna. And one who is, with heart and soul is serving Krsna, he has finished all tapasya. Tepus tapas te juhuvuh sasnur arya [SB 3.33.7]. They have already finished all this tapasya. Therefore they have come to this stage. Krta-punya-punjah [SB 10.12.11]. What is called? Piling.
Revatinandana: Heaps of pious activities.
Prabhupada: Ah, heaps of, yes. [break] ...Mahaprabhu, He immediately gives how to love and serve Krsna, because this Kali-yuga, they will not be able to follow the regulative principles and become elevated. So He is therefore maha-vadanyaya. He is giving a process-immediately, if followed, he becomes a lover of Krsna and His service, immediately. Namo maha-vadanyaya krsna-prema-pradaya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. [break]
Revatinandana: ...circumambulating you, Prabhupada, paying respects.
Prabhupada: Of course, their vision, maha-bhagavata... Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna. (laughs) That is very beautiful.
Revatinandana: You mean the music?
Prabhupada: No, no. That black.
Revatinandana: Yes, it's very nice. He has blue eyes and big black body.
Devotee: Blue eyes?
Revatinandana: Yes. It's amazing. If you look closely you will see...
Pancadravida: The gopis, they didn't like very much being instructed by Uddhava?
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. That was dry for them. They asked Uddhava, "Bring Krsna. We don't want you any more..." [break] What is his name? That...? Tapomaya. Tapa... He never sees whether it is watered. He is in charge of agricultural department? Where is Jayapataka? He never sees. One man should be in charge to see things are being done.
Pusta Krsna: Each... What was that, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Each flat.
Pusta Krsna: Each floor?
Prabhupada: Yes, each floor. Yes. But Tapomaya, he does not see even that the water is... He is in charge of agriculture?
Jayapataka: Yes.
Prabhupada: Similarly, it can be understood how he is seeing, he is managing. He does not see.
Jayapataka: Right now we only have about four or five men here that are managing everything. He is also purchasing all the things for the festival. The GBC's have been requested to give some men...
Prabhupada: That means he has no time. Then why he says that "I am in charge." He is not in charge.
Jayapataka: He is trying to... [break]
Prabhupada: After all, they are boys. They are not grown up. [break] ...your Calcutta program?
Jayapataka: They're going tomorrow morning. [break]
Bhavananda: ...matha, and then we went to Madhava Maharaja's matha. So Acyutananda gave a very strong lecture at Madhava Maharaja's matha that in order to make devotees who are chanting the holy name, it takes more than any material calculation or business sense, that you have be infused with the potency of the Supreme Lord. All of the sannyasis and brahmacaris were standing out on the balcony and hearing Acyutananda glorify Your Divine Grace. All the devotees went in.
Prabhupada: [break] ...small card. So one card is put into the shoes, and one card is in his hand. That's all. Number. Suppose twenty shoes duplicate, so one twenty card is put into the shoe and one number twenty in his hand. So a man can see that it is his shoe.
Yasodanandana: Instead of requesting ten paisa, they may be requested to offer something to the Deity.
Prabhupada: Why? Nothing. Let them come and see. That's all.
Yasodanandana: [break] Our Deity is not beggar.
Prabhupada: No. He is bestower. He gives everything. If anyone voluntary gives, that's all right. You should not ask. [break] ...instead of doing this. (Bengali) He said like that. "By showing the Deity to earn livelihood is condemned. Better become a sweeper, municipal sweeper, and sweep the road and earn money." He said like that. That is better, honorable. He is working and getting money, instead of making a good show of Deity and earn money. This is not required. If you want to earn money, go, work according to your capacity and earn money. Don't cheat people. That is Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati.
Pancadravida: There was a big fight or difference of opinion, wasn't there?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Pancadravida: There was trouble in Nabadwip, wasn't there, when he advised the pilgrims not to pay money to go into the temples?
Prabhupada: Yes. He was fight against it. All, Nabadwip, Vrndavana. Vrndavana is not so... But still, they have got rate. One thing, it is a question of heart, that a man should come and visit the temple -- he must give something. Why he is to be asked? Voluntarily he should give that.
Yasodanandana: Yes. We were reading in Nectar of Devotion this morning. Your Divine Grace is writing that it is customary in India that whenever one visits the Deity or a saintly person to offer something, even one grain of rice.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the system.
Lokanatha: But encouraging is not recommended?
Prabhupada: Huh? What is that encouraging?
Yasodanandana: Requesting should not be done.
Prabhupada: No.
Lokanatha: It is voluntary.
Prabhupada: Encouraging means your behavior should be so nice that he voluntarily gives. That is encouraging, not that begging and "Put something here. My belly is empty." (laughter) ...that is nice, that "Here is an institution. You kindly become a member. Help us." That is another thing. But why should you earn by showing the Deity? You work so nicely they will become voluntarily member, contributing. That is nice. But not that "Now we have got Deity. He's starving. Please give me something." No. That is not good prac...
Pancadravida: You showed the example when you came to New York. You were cooking capatis and everything.
Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise who would cook at that time? [break] ...apartment. So I was cooking, and he liked. He thought that "Without any payment, I have got a cook."
Revatinandana: Dharmadhyaksa dasa used to be one of his disciples before he joined your, he became your disciple. And he said that he was talking to Dr. Misra, and Dr. Misra still talks about your cooking. He said, "Oh, Swamiji, he saved my life." He said, "He taught me how to eat properly." He still talks about you.
Prabhupada: [break] ...improved his health. He says still?
Revatinandana: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Revatinandana: Dharma was telling me.
Prabhupada: [break] ...to rise early in the morning and do whatever is needed. Then, at nine, half-past nine, I will go his apartment and begin cooking. Then, after finishing, I'll take my bathing, and then we shall eat together. And then, after eating, I will go to the Fifth Avenue for loitering.
Pusta Krsna: Fifth Avenue.
Prabhupada: Yes. So I was cooking once only, that's all.
Yasodanandana: Your loitering was very fruitful even.
Prabhupada: I was studying Americans, how they are walking, how they are shopping, like that.
Satsvarupa: One time you said you were happier then, maintaining yourself, than having thousands of disciples.
Prabhupada: Yes. There was no chance of finding fault. (laughter) Now I have to find fault.
Madhudvisa: [break] ...New York now named Jaya Nimai Nitai. When you were first in New York, he was a musician. He used to write music, and he used to get inspired by looking down from his apartment down to the street. And every day he said he used to see this little Indian man walking by, and it was you, Srila Prabhupada. And he couldn't figure out what was going on, this man walking by on the street every day.
Prabhupada: Yes, I was having morning walk regularly, alone.
Madhudvisa: He said you used to walk very fast. [break] (Indian band playing)
Madhudvisa: Entrance? [break]
Radhavallabha: ...ISKCON temples, ISKCON activities, ISKCON temples, ISKCON Deities... [break]
Prabhupada: ...people will know there is exhibition? There is no signboard. Who will know that here is...?
Radhavallabha: We'll have to put up signs today showing the entrance. There will also be a BBT and the scholars' quotes.
Prabhupada: Where is this?
Ramesvara: That is near Atlanta.
Prabhupada: All right. [break] ...He taught them to steal then: "Mother is not giving. You steal." That picture is going on. [break] Juhu is so small?
Radhavallabha: Yes, we should have made it bigger.
Ramesvara: The size of the cart is restricted.
Pancadravida: What year is that?
Ramesvara: Recently.
Revatinandana: It was this past year or the year before last when we had it. Two years ago it was full.
Prabhupada: They want to stop it. That is their... [break] A new temple?
Jayatirtha: Old temple, Srila Prabhupada. [break] Who was talking about casting?
Pusta Krsna: That was in Australia, Adelaide. Cittahari.
Prabhupada: This is very nice. This murti should be standard.
Pusta Krsna: Geneva.
Prabhupada: Yes... No, anywhere.
Pusta Krsna: Oh, and drop it(?) like this.
Prabhupada: They are casting. [break] ...this title.
Revatinandana: Srila Prabhupada, would it be good to have these titles in Bengali as well as English, the titles on the pictures?
Guru-krpa: They'll understand. Always one or two guys will explain to the crowd.
Prabhupada: Yes, they will understand. [break]
Radhavallabha: Some of the Bengalis saw this picture yesterday, and they were very surprised.
Prabhupada: There were some Bengalis?
Radhavallabha: Just a few were coming through while we were putting the display up. They were very much astonished that we have such a big building.
Prabhupada: [break] ...light arrangement?
Ramesvara: We're going to put lights up today, fluorescent lights.
Pusta Krsna: There's a wire run through the middle of the...
Ramesvara: This is about one half the display, right?
Radhavallabha: One half.
Ramesvara: The other half is...
Prabhupada: We can make all these pictures into album that can be sold.
Radhavallabha: What is it?
Ramesvara: Prabhupada said we can make a photo album of all these pictures. [break]
Prabhupada: ...ISKCON temples all over the world.
Ramesvara: You told us to make one book also.
Prabhupada: Yes. Little description and...
Pancadravida: That would be very good for preaching.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Ramesvara: With our equipment, we can make these photos in any size.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. So do it. [break] ...Auckland?
Radhavallabha: Madhudvisa?
Pusta Krsna: Is the same house in Auckland and, New Zealand?
Radhavallabha: Gribblehurst Road.
Prabhupada: Where I went?
Ramesvara: Yes, I can see it. Gribblehurst Road. Same house. This is the old temple in Houston. They're buying a new one.
Prabhupada: Oh. Boston, oh, it is very nice.
Ramesvara: This is one of the best neighborhoods in all of Boston.
Prabhupada: They are framework or brick?
Satsvarupa: It's called brownstone.
Prabhupada: Oh, brown... Stone it is. That is nice. [break] ...new temple? No.
Radhavallabha: That's Ottawa, Canada.
Prabhupada: Canada.
Ramesvara: That is the capital city of Canada.
Prabhupada: Yes. Johannesburg. That is wonderful. [break] Stockholm, yes.
Radhavallabha: People will wonder when they see all these pictures. You are in half of them.
Pusta Krsna: Actually, he's in all of them.
Prabhupada: Virginia. Here I did not go.
Ramesvara: It's near Washington, D.C.
Prabhupada: Baltimore.
Pusta Krsna: The new Miami temple, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Oh, very nice.
Satsvarupa: There are ten acres. That's just a tiny bit.
Ramesvara: They have nice mango trees?
Satsvarupa: Oh, yes, they have many, many, a whole orchard with irrigation pipes.
Radhavallabha: This sign on the door of the Tokyo temple says, "Hare Krsna Temple."
Prabhupada: So make arrangement that people may come. They should be given direction. Otherwise how they will know there is such thing?
Harisauri: Mexico.
Radhavallabha: This is only half of the temple pictures. The other half will go up today.
Ramesvara: And all the professor quotes will be up by tomorrow morning.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Ramesvara: They'll fill the entire wall on the other side.
Prabhupada: Do to your best capacity and Krsna will help.
Pusta Krsna: There should be some border over here so that people don't accidentally fall into the box. Really. We have all kinds of kids coming around. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Maya Will Give Another Body

Vrndavana, April 8, 1976

download  Players

Take a test

---

Pancadravida: ...went to America, what was your idea of what would be your program when you got there?Prabhupada: This idea: I shall speak to don't eat meat, and they'll immediately kick me out. (laughter) That was my program. And I was going to say that "Don't eat meat. No illicit sex," and immediately they will kick me out. "All right." I never thought that you would accept it. That is the idea of my poetry. That is sung, no? You have got that?
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: And I was asking Krsna, "I do not know why You have brought me here. As soon as I will say these things, they will kick me out. What is Your program, I do not know." (chuckles)
Aksayananda: Everybody knows in their heart that actually these things are wrong.
Lokanatha: You are so expert. For one year you did not mention those rules and regulations, I heard.
Prabhupada: No, I simply said, "Come and join and chant."
Lokanatha: And when they developed higher taste, then you said, "Now no more meat-eating." [break]
Prabhupada: ...simply man looks after the animals, that he's strong and happy, they'll get food grains, the cooperation, and both of them happy. But they're not looking to that. They are trying to sell the grains and get more money, and purchase wine and enjoy. And when the animal will be unable to work, sell him to the slaughterhouse and get money. And for these sinful activities, they are suffering.
Hari-sauri: Their idea is just to exploit.
Prabhupada: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmana daiva netrena jantur dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. maya-yantrarudhani. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of maya. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese... [Bg. 18.61]. Krsna is there, orders maya, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasadam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically. The same way, as you infect some disease, immediately the disease is there. You haven't got to manufacture diseases. Because you have infected yourself with the disease germ, "Take this disease." Therefore it is warned, anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11], "Don't desire anything except Krsna's service." Then you are immune. Otherwise you have to take birth. The Mayavadi philosophers, they take the Absolute Truth void, so they have no good desires, again they come to material desires.
Lokanatha: They want to be desireless.
Prabhupada: That is not possible.
Madhudvisa: If the Mayavadis don't believe in the difference between the soul and the Supersoul, then how can they... What is their explanation of reincarnation?
Prabhupada: They say that this is not incarnation, it is maya. Just like the sky is covered in a pot, and as soon as the pot breaks, the sky mixes with the big sky. That's all. That is their theory.
Madhudvisa: So therefore they say God is covered.
Prabhupada: Not God. You are covered.
Pancadravida: But you are God, they say.
Prabhupada: So you are God, but you are covered by this body. So as soon as the body is finished, you mix with. Just like you take one pot and you take water. The water is there, but if you break this pot, the water comes and mixes with.
Pancadravida: Then what is their reason for not becoming the biggest rascal? Why not become the biggest rascal? The pot's going to break anyway. What difference does it make? Why not become a big rascal and enjoy?
Madhudvisa: Because the Mayavadis, they also perform some austerity and tapasya.
Prabhupada: Just to break the pot. That is their (indistinct)
Madhudvisa: But what is the breaking of the pot?
Lokanatha: The pot doesn't refer to the body but the illusion. They want to get rid of not the body but the illusion.
Prabhupada: No, illusion in this sense, that I am covered by the pot, it will break or I shall break, and when it is broken then there is no more pot. I become one with the sky.
Madhudvisa: So why should you endeavor for it? It's going to happen anyway.
Prabhupada: To break it as soon as possible. (laughter)
Pancadravida: That doesn't make any sense. "Crackpot philosophy."
Madhudvisa: If there's no individuality, I can't understand how can there be any desire for...
Prabhupada: No, there is individuality, but these people do not understand it, because... In the Bhagavad-gita, acchedyam. It is not that part is taken. The accedya. Because spirit cannot be cut into pieces, and while it is in piece, either you take it in part or something else, that is eternal. It is not that by the maya we have become piece. Yes. That is not maya. It is piece. All right, sanatana, mamaivamso jiva-bhutah sanatanah [Bg. 15.7], eternally that piece.
Lokanatha: They did not take that to mean the constitutional position of the living entity.
Prabhupada: Yes, they do not know. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are individual, but artificially they are thinking, "I shall become one."
Pusta Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, the karmis may argue that to become desireless is against the natural order. Because we see that right from the beginning of our life we're desiring so many things.
Prabhupada: Desireless. When he will desire less, you convince. They're always desiring.
Pusta Krsna: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: Then where is desireless?
Pusta Krsna: But we're saying anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady anavrtam [Brs. 1.1.11].
Prabhupada: Anya, anya means anyatha. You are servant, you should always desire how to serve Krsna. That is your natural. And if you don't want to serve, that is anyatha. Anyabhilasa. That is anyabhilasa. Anya means other, abhilasa means desire. So everyone has got desire, but that desire should be natural, according to position. But if you desire something else, nonsense, then you suffer. That... Caitanya Mahaprabhu said jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. You are eternal servant of Krsna, so you desire only how to serve Him. Why you are desiring otherwise? They will suffer. We are desiring, "I shall become God," "I shall become one with God," "I shall become this, I shall become..." So many hundreds and thousands. So that you have to stop. Because you are servant, you should desire how to serve Krsna. That is your natural... Eh? Just like in your country the women, they are thinking of equal rights. Eh? And how you can equal rights? You have to become pregnant. So you become pregnant and take care of the child; that is your duty. In India still, you'll find they are happy. And now they are, "No, we shall be equal with the men." And how you'll stop your pregnancy? And that they do not think. So they're thinking that "We shall not be pregnant, and if we become pregnant we shall kill, and we shall have equal rights with the men." This is going on.
Madhudvisa: They say they may become pregnant and have children, but the men should take care of the children, equally.
Prabhupada: Why? Why you should take? You are meant for taking... The child does not go to the father for being taken care. It goes to the mother. Even animals. There are so many chicken, hens, they go after the mother.
Hari-sauri: They get milk from the mother, not from the father.
Prabhupada: Yes. How to stop it?
Lokanatha: How could father feed even the child?
Prabhupada: Just see, in all there are so many husbandless girls, and the children have not gone with the husbands, to the man. They are after the mother. How you'll have equal rights? They cannot. At this your heart will cry, "Oh, I have left my children, I am unhappy." That is... Just like our Hari-sauri's grandmother's advice to his mother to kill him. He said. And she refused. This is natural inclination. How... Artificially they are thinking like that, violating nature's law. Therefore they must suffer. As soon as you break ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. These rascals, on account of being misled by misconception of life, ahankara, false ahankara, kartaham, I can do everything. Any little pinch of nature's law, if you break, you'll suffer. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot escape. But still they're thinking, "We're independent." That is ahankara-vimudhatma, by false prestige, by false identification. He is (indistinct) and he's thinking so many nonsense. Ahankara-vimudhatma. Everything will be explained in Bhagavad-gita. So try to explain. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's order, yare dekha, tare kaha, 'krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128].' Bas, finished, "You become a guru." The trouble(?) is there. You haven't got to manufacture your ideas. Just like I'm quoting from Krsna's preaching.
Lokanatha: They take objection when we preach. They say, "Have you seen God or Krsna?" We haven't seen God, how could we speak about God? Sometimes they take objection.
Prabhupada: Very good. You have not seen your grandfather, why do you take his will? To inherit the money. You have not seen your grandfather. You rascal, you are very much anxious to take his money, according to his will. What is the answer? You have not seen your grandfather, so why you take his will? Eh? What is his answer? Rascal while taking money: "I will take my grandfather's will." Just see. You have to learn how to capture the rascals. [break]
Jayadvaita: ...living here for nine years but he doesn't know who God is.
Prabhupada: This is direction?
Jayadvaita: Yes.
Passer-by: Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya, jaya. This is the difference: he is living here nine years, he does not. And here, cultivator, he knows how to offer obeisances. Where he is living?
Jayadvaita: I'm not sure exactly. I met him on Gopinath Bazaar. He's living with some gentleman. He said that he came to Vrndavana nine years ago and he met this gentleman and took up studying with him. And he's reading all Vedic books, Atharva Veda, Yajur Veda, like that, but he doesn't know...
Prabhupada: What is God.
Madhudvisa: Has he seen our books?
Prabhupada: How he is wasting his time.
Jayadvaita: Yes.
Lokanatha: Vedesu durlabham.
Prabhupada: Adurlabham atma-bhaktau. If he would have approached a devotee, he'd have known this long ago. That man must be Mayavadi, with whom he is associating.
Pancadravida: They cannot give anything.
Prabhupada: Mayavadi-bhasya sunile haya sarva-nasa [Cc. Madhya 6.169], finished -- his spiritual progress is finished if he associates with a Mayavadi.
Madhudvisa: It says in the Caitanya-caritamrta, even if we look upon the face of a pasandi, we should jump in the river with all our clothes on to become immediately purified, what to speak of giving any aural reception to them. But then again we see that Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu listened, you know, attentively for so many hours to Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya and also Prakasananda Sarasvati. How is it can we understand...?
Prabhupada: Just to see how the animal is jumping. (to passers-by:) Hare Krsna. Jaya, jaya. (chuckles) Just like a fish is given freedom, even if he's caught up by the trap. It is like that.
Madhudvisa: So Lord Caitanya had him on the line all the time.
Prabhupada: Lord Caitanya was waiting, "Let the rascal go on speaking. How long he can speak?" (laughs)
Hari-sauri: He just waited till he dried up.
Prabhupada: Jaya. He's foolish. He knows that he has got some limited stock; it will be finished very soon, so "Let him finish, then I shall capture." That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's policy.
Madhudvisa: But should we take that example or...?
Prabhupada: Yes. Why not?
Madhudvisa: We can also listen to the Mayavadis and then defeat them like that?
Prabhupada: If you are so qualified like Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Madhudvisa: (laughs) Otherwise we should...
Prabhupada: Otherwise you will be captured.
Madhudvisa: Otherwise we shouldn't listen.
Prabhupada: No.
Jayadvaita: In America that's called giving someone enough rope to hang himself.
Prabhupada: Mm.
Pancadravida: In South India, when we were down there, we had to do that. We listened to them first and then took their money.
Madhudvisa: But we also should defeat them.
Pancadravida: Taking their money is defeating them.
Lokanatha: Srila Prabhupada, what is the position of vrajavasis, those who are living in Vrndavana now? What happens to them next life?
Prabhupada: Yes. Simply by living, if they do not commit any sinful, they'll go back to home. Simply by living. Without committing any sinful activities. Always remember Krsna, this is Krsna's land, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto. That will deliver them.
Madhudvisa: They don't need a spiritual master?
Prabhupada: Yes. Spiritual master is always needed. Chadiya vaisnava-seva nistara payeche keba. Without abiding by the orders of spiritual master and serving him, nobody can be. Otherwise rascal. He has accepted one rascal spiritual master, and he cannot understand what is God, nine years, because he did not accept spiritual master.
Hari-sauri: So all these local vrajavasis, they all accept...
Prabhupada: No, vrajavasis, they are... Generally, naturally, they are Krsna conscious. Otherwise how is this illiterate farmer, he is offering? This is natural.
Pancadravida: But he has no spiritual master.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pancadravida: He has a spiritual master?
Prabhupada: No, no, he has a spiritual master, yes. And even without spiritual master they have already elevated to Krsna consciousness.
Pancadravida: So they will go back home?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, because spiritual master is within, caitya-guru.
Lokanatha: You said one time Krsna is there.
Prabhupada: Mm. Krsna-guru-krpa. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

Very Expert In Misinterpreting

Mayapura, April 2, 1975

download  Players

Take a test

---

Pancadravida: ...take the chemicals and combine them together in a test tube so that a soul can enter into that and...Prabhupada: God is not your father's servant, that He will arrange to bring the soul. You are God's servant.
Pancadravida: So you're... Cannot be done, then?
Prabhupada: No. If you bring, you can bring soul by some arrangement, then we shall think that you are better than God. But you are rascal. You are thinking like that. You cannot do that. God will not agree to send a soul to your arrangement. You should always remember that you are servant of God. God is not your servant. That is knowledge. [Break]
Gurudasa: Jaya.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pancadravida: I just wanted to ask that question.
Prabhupada: Thank you. Don't try to make God your servant. That is foolishness. You must always agree that "I am servant of God."
Pancadravida: Because in the class that... I asked that question because we're saying, well, there's no question of creating life. We're agreeing that the soul already exists. But can the scientists... If a scientist claims he'll create the conditions in which a soul will enter, do we accept that premise, and I thought, "No, because that's giving them much too much ground," that if we say that, then by their definition, they can say, "I am creating life. I don't want to argue over the existence or not of the soul, but I'll arrange all the chemicals for you."
Prabhupada: Where is that chemist? Where is that chemical combination that, I mean to say, grows a soul, generate a soul? Even if you have got the chemicals, you cannot do it.
Pancadravida: Whether it's true or not, somebody was claiming to me that the scientists are creating primitive forms of life like enzymes and things like this because enzymes show... Enzymes are produced by life. They show certain living tendencies. The scientists claim they are able to create enzymes.
Prabhupada: So what is the credit? The enzymes are being naturally created, and the soul is there. So what is his credit? The arrangement is already there automatically, the secretion between the man and the woman, and they mix together, emulsified, and the situation is created, and the soul comes there. The soul is injected through the semina of the man. It is already arranged. So what is your credit?
Pancadravida: Well, they say the credit is that "We are doing these things in the laboratory without the presence of the soul. They are not being produced by any living organism."
Prabhupada: :Eh?
Pancadravida: "They are not being produced by any living organism."
Prabhupada: No, no. That is your, your foolishness. Living organism is there. Just like we find something... The same argument, vrscika-tandula-nyaya: "Vrscika, the scorpion, is coming out of the heaps of rice." That... It does not mean the rice is produced the scorpion. That is foolishness. Rice, the heaps of rice, it does not create any scorpion. We have to get down here?
Tamal-krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: Four sources of life: anda-ja, udbhi-ja, jarayu-ja and sveda-ja. Sveda-ja. The sveda-ja means just like these bugs. Wherefrom the bugs in the bed come? Is there any laboratory arrangement?
Pancadravida: No.
Prabhupada: So why these rascals do not understand? The bugs come from the perspiration. So in the perspiration, there is all chemicals, and the bug is coming. Now, where is their chemical? Who has put here chemical? This grass is coming. How it is coming? It is so...
Pancadravida: The chemicals are coming from the perspiration.
Prabhupada: No, no. That is another.
Pusta-krsna: Seed.
Prabhupada: There, that the, this grass is coming out of the earth. Wherefrom it is coming? Who has put the chemicals? And the eggs of the birds, they are produced in the womb of the birds, and from there the life is coming, the bird is coming. Where is the chemical?
Pancadravida: Well, that's just a complex chemical reaction. We can't explain it yet...
Prabhupada: But "Can't explain" -- that means you are fool. You remain fool. Don't try to expose yourself, nonsense. You are a rascal number one; you remain rascal number one. When the neck is caught up, he says, "Yes, it is complex. We shall see in the future." Why "future?" What about now?
Pancadravida: Well, a hundred years ago we couldn't make this movie camera either. But now they are producing easily.
Prabhupada: That's all right. But you cannot do this business. This is an art. Hundred years ago, people could not produce electricity by mixing two wire.
Pancadravida: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is an art. It is artist's... What is called? Craftmanship. Hundred years, could not produce motor car. But that does not mean you have become God, you rascal.
Pancadravida: :Well, isn't God just a craftsman also? He's just an...
Prabhupada: Yes, He is everything. He's everything -- but not a fool like you. That's all.
Madhudvisa: Srila Prabhupada, is there a jiva, is there a spirit soul in every sperm cell, or does that...? Does the spirit soul only come to a particular sperm cell, or is there one in every sperm cell, and the condition isn't right, so then it dies before, I mean, it leaves before it actually forms a body?
Prabhupada: Yes. The sperm, generally in every sperm there is spirit soul. But sometimes we put checks. The contraceptive method means putting check. Just like you pollute the milk. Then it loses his strength. So similarly, there are other circumstances which checks the sperm to inject soul. [Break] ...exposing themselves that they are rascal number one. That's all.
Pusta Krsna: It's a little slippery, Prabhupada. We'll go around here.
Sruta-kirti: It's all right here.
Prabhupada: I'll do. Mudhas. They are mudhas, means rascals, and they're exposing more and more that yes, they are mudhas. And another set of rascals, what is called, recognizing that "Yes, take this degree." Avyapare suvyaparam yo narah kartum icchati sa mudhah hanyate 'khilotpad iva vanarah.(?) Vanara means monkey. Monkey... One monkey... there was a woodcutter. What is called, woodcutter?
Paramahamsa: Carpenter.
Devotee: Lumberjack.
Prabhupada: Eh? Lumber...?
Sruta-kirti: Lumberjack.
Pancadravida: Cuts trees?
Prabhupada: No, no. Formerly, with saw, they used to make planks from big, big... What is that?
Madhudvisa: Sawmill?
Sruta-kirti: Carpenter.
Prabhupada: Not... Sawmill is now. Formerly they were doing it-hand.
Pancadravida: Carpenter.
Prabhupada: Not carpenter. All right, the man who used to bifurcate the big, big planks, and after finishing the business, he would put one, what is called, plug so that it may not again come...
Pusta Krsna: Join.
Prabhupada: Jam. Yes. So one monkey came. They monkey came. He, he began to, as his business, (makes sound "kut, kut, kut," and the plug was taken away and his half part of the body -- "Jam." And the... (Makes sound, monkey crying) "tahn, tahn, tahn, tahn." Who is coming to help him? He died. So this is not his business. He's a monkey. And he wanted to do that business. Similarly, these things are directly in the hands of God, and these monkeys are coming to get out the plug. So they'll die simply, that's all, like the monkey. They'll never be able to successfully produce soul and these things.
Madhudvisa: So couldn't the scientists say that it's God's will that when, when there is a...
Prabhupada: Now, now according to their theory, there was no human being. And from uncivilized man, they are becoming... They have taken to science, say, for last two hundred years. Before that, how things were going on without these rascals?
Madhudvisa: They say, "uncivilized."
Prabhupada: Eh? Uncivilized. And they are..., he was producing the soul, man? They're uncivilized? This, such nice... That is another exposal of their rascaldom.
Madhudvisa: They say modern man is living much more comfortably than he did two hundred years ago.
Prabhupada: Yes.
madhu: This is our advancement.
Prabhupada: What is that comfortable? What is the comfort? Give me the example of comfort?
Trivikrama: Air conditioning.
Brahmananda: Music
Madhudvisa: Cameras.
Pancadravida: Tape recorders.
Prabhupada: (Chuckles) These are comfortable?
Madhudvisa: Automobiles. Aeroplanes.
Pancadravida: Well, they enable comfort. A person can lie down in his comfortable bed in his nice apartment and listen to music out of the wall.
Prabhupada: But what about his death, how he uncomfortably dying?
Pancadravida: Well, we can't change that.
Prabhupada: Then what you can change?
Visnujana: But they can give you drugs to make death so that you don't feel it.
Madhudvisa: Yeah, you can die in your sleep.
Prabhupada: That is, means another death. You check death by death. That's all. These are all rascals. You are not yet convinced that these, they are rascals. That is your defect.
Pancadravida: I went to see my grandfather when he was dying. They said, "We have a nice arrangement. He's going to die in two weeks. Don't tell him. He'll die peacefully in his sleep." That was their arrangement.
Prabhupada: Coma.
Pusta Krsna: Many of the scientists actually believe in God, and they think that by experimentation, they'll come to understand God more and more.
Prabhupada: That is another thing. That we admire, that you are trying to understand God. But there is no God, and they are becoming God -- that is nonsense.
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Ramesvara: Some people say that Darwin was paid by the British...
Prabhupada: Yes, I said.
Ramesvara: ...to make propaganda.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: Against religion.
Prabhupada: Not against religion. Against Indian culture.
Ramesvara: Against Indian cultu...
Prabhupada: Yes. Britishers made so many attempts that "Indians were uncivilized, and we have come here to make them civilized."
Ramesvara: So for colonialism.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just to... Because there are other powers, so they are envious that "Why these rascals, they occupy India?" So, so just to support this occupation, I mean to say, yes, occupation, and..., they made so many propaganda. Even during Gandhi's movement, they engaged one American woman to write a book "Mother India." "Mother India." "Mother India." So the... In... That "Mother India" is simply full of stories where there are so defects. Suppose a priest in the temple is attached with some woman, like that, so many stories like... So one Punjabi, what is his name? Gobha, (?) Gobha. He counteracted that book -- "Uncle Sam." (laughter) So these things are going on.
Madhudvisa: Is that where that name came from, "Uncle Sam"?
Prabhupada: Uncle Sam is the American word?
Trivikrama: Yes, yes.
Pancadravida: No.
Prabhupada: And he described the American life in so, mean, badly.
Pancadravida: Is there any...
Prabhupada: And Gandhi said, "This Mother India is the drain inspector's report."
Tamal-krsna: The drain inspectors?
Prabhupada: Yes. Sewage inspector report. These things will go on. So long people will remain in darkness about Krsna consciousness, these things, rubbish things, will go on. I'll find out fault in you; you'll find out fault in me. That's all. Because the basic principle of material civilization is envy. I do not like you; you do not like me. That's all. Envy. Everywhere, individually, nationally, socially, familywise -- everyone is envious. That is the material disease. And therefore in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said that dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. Those who are interested in superfluous religious system, cheating system of religion... Just like the Christians, they say that "Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities."
Trivikrama: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is cheating system. Once Christ advised that you, you should not act sinfully, and then he takes contract for all your sinful life. How cheating it is, directly cheating.
Pancadravida: Who was cheating?
Prabhupada: These so-called Christians. They say that "We are very weak. We can not restrain ourself from sinful activities, so we believe in Christ, and he has taken contract for suffering. That's all."
Trivikrama: "So let us go on sinning."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pancadravida: Kill him again.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is their philosophy. And as they pass laws in the Parliament, similarly, these churches approve: "Yes, homosex is all right." Then it is all right. This cheating system is going on. Similar cheating system is the Hindus also. You'll find in Calcutta, in College Street, so many butcher house. And they have kept one goddess Kali that "We are eating Mother Kali's prasada." That's it. This is going on.
Brahmananda: Kali eats meat.
Prabhupada: Kali does not eat meat, but it is the sastra's injunction that those who are unable to give up meat-eating, they may sacrifice one goat, not cow, one small animal before the goddess Kali, on amavasya (new moon) day, night, not day, and they can eat it.
Pancadravida: If it's offered, though, who accepts it? Whose prasadam is it? Who takes it?
Prabhupada: The prasadam is not... That meat is not taken by Kali, but it is taken by the witches and others, associates of Kali.
Brahmananda: In Srimad-Bhagavatam, you write that goddess Kali takes the prasadam of her husband, Lord Siva.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: So therefore she is vegetarian.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: You were talking about enviousness, Srila Prabhupada. And we see that this even sometimes pervades in our own society.
Prabhupada: Because you have, you are not yet perfect. That means. You are not yet perfect. You are trying to be perfect. Now be perfect.
Madhudvisa: Is there a way, is there a specific way to counteract this bad quality of enviousness?
Prabhupada: And yes, just chant Hare Krsna. Cleanse your mind. All dirty things will go. Because you neglect to chant regularly, therefore the dirty things remain.
Pancadravida: One devotee was talking with a Mayavadi sannyasi, famous sannyasi. So he said that "Your desire to attain mukti, that is a material desire."
Prabhupada: No, we don't want mukti.
Pancadravida: Yes. So...
Prabhupada: Mukti flatters me: "Please accept me." We don't want mukti.
Pancadravida: So the devotee went on, "To want to become one with the Lord, that is material desire." So the Mayavadi, he answered, he said, "No, to want to remain separate from the Lord and enjoy rasa, or exchange, with Him, that is also material desire. Because you want to stay two, God and you, so you can be separate just so you can enjoy an exchange. That is also a desire."
Prabhupada: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Krsna. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ananda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhih [Bs. 5.37]. That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition." So the Mayavadi's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities. But they have no idea that similar activities are there in spiritual life, but that is not material. That is their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore we are... You are not understanding Caitanya-caritamrta, the radha-krsna-pranaya-vikrtiv hladini-saktir asmat. That I am explaining for the last few days. That is not at all this material. So unless there is loving affair in the spiritual world, how here it is as perverted reflection? It is the reflection of the reality. The reality is there. That they cannot understand. That is also hinted in the Bhagavad-gita, that "There is another feature, or another nature," paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyah [Bg. 8.20], "which is sanatana, is eternal." Here the rasas, on account of being material, they are flickering. But there, real rasa is permanent. Here the loving affairs between two parties finish as soon as the bodies finish. But there, there is no question of finishing. Increasing. Anandambudhi-vardhanam, increasing. Harer nama... [Break]...in reality, "what I am," that can be understood through devotional service, not by karma, jnana, yoga. But... Give this example, I mean to say, authoritative statement of Krsna, that bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55].
Pancadravida: I didn't speak with him. Another devotee did.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pancadravida: Another devotee spoke with this person.
Prabhupada: So what is your answer, that you cannot understand Krsna, as Krsna says, without bhakti.
Pancadravida: Well, we're.... They might answer that that's all right for understanding Krsna, but the highest state is to merge with God, and then there's no more living entity, no more God. Everything becomes one.
Prabhupada: That means you have become more than Krsna. One who states like that, he has become more than Krsna.
Visnujana: Yes, they believe that.
Pancadravida: Not more than Krsna. Same as Krsna.
Prabhupada: Oh, he's not... He does not know what is Krsna. Krsna says that "My dear Arjuna, you, Me, and all these soldiers, they existed before, and they're existing now, and they will exist in the future." So where is merging? Merging is suiciding. It is a spiritual suicide. Disgusted with these material affairs... Just like sometimes a man, being disgusted with this material world, he commits suicide, so this merging is also a kind of suicide.
Pancadravida: But Brahman always exists.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pancadravida: Brahman always exists. We're not, we're not saying that Brahman stops existing. So these, the living entities...
Prabhupada: Yes, again they will come.
Pancadravida: They're all Brahman. So they will continue to exist. Brahman doesn't stop existing.
Prabhupada: Everything exists. For the time being, he may merge; then again he'll come to enjoy this material body. Aruhya krcchena param padam tatah patanty adhah. Patanty adhah. Even they become merged into the existence of Brahman, again they come back because there is no asraya. Just like these air, airplanes or the jets. They have invented very good machine, eighteen thousand miles per hour, going very high, but there is no place. They come down again. That is a fact. What is the use of going so high, eighteen thousand miles per hour, and travel and then again come back. Why do you take unnecessary trouble if you cannot stay there? You migrated from Europe and other countries to America. You got shelter. You stayed there. That colonization was successful. But if you are going to colonize in the moon and there is no place to stay, then why you are spending so much money unnecessarily? What is this foolishness? And they have stopped now. So in this way they are trying to merge into the Brahman effulgence, but where to stay? They can stay in the Brahman effulgence as minute particle of soul, but the soul wants ananda, then again -- "It was better to live in the material world." They come back again. That is statement of the sastra. Aruhya krcchena param padam tatah patanty adhah. They may go very high, same way as the jets are going, but there is no shelter. Shelter is the lotus feet of Krsna. So without shelter, they cannot remain there, and because by nature he wants ananda... Suppose if you remain in the sky for many, many years, would you feel very comfortable? Then you have to come back again. What is the use of being falsely proud -- "Now we have invented the machine. We can go eighteen thousand miles per hour and up in the sky"? That's all right, but what is the benefit out of it? Without ananda, without society, friendship and love, you cannot be happy in the vacant sky. Then you'll have to seek again -- "Give me some shelter. It is all false."
Madhudvisa: Srila Prabhupada, a question arose the other day in class if there was a difference between Brahman-realized yogi and a Mayavadi.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Madhudvisa: Someone like the Kumaras... Were the Kumaras, before they became attracted to Visnu, were they Mayavadis?
Prabhupada: Not Mayavadis.
Trivikrama: Impersonalists.
Prabhupada: Impersonalists.
Madhudvisa: What is the difference between an impersonalist and a Mayavadi?
Prabhupada: Very little difference, but still, there is difference.
Trivikrama: Mayavadis are offenders.
Prabhupada: Mayavadis means they are speaking that "Everything is maya; Krsna is also maya." And impersonalist means they are thinking that "To merge into the Brahman effulgence is better than to keep our personal identity."
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, this Professor Dimmock was going to arrange a Vaisnava conference at which we were going to attend. You yourself was going to be invited with many professors, but I received a report from one of the professors that when they tried to contact other professors, none of them wanted to come because they said, more or less, that we are like fanatics and we wouldn't actually discuss things in a philosophic way, that we would just use the conference to proselytize. So in this way, they're rejecting us from...
Prabhupada: What is the harm? Let them reject.
Satsvarupa: We don't need them.
Prabhupada: Our business will go on, and there will be many professor Dimmocks who will support us. And they are doing that.
Satsvarupa: We're not going to compromise to...
Prabhupada: No.
Satsvarupa: ...please them.
Pancadravida: This Professor Dimmock, he still supported us?
Satsvarupa: Yes, he... [Break]
Prabhupada: The Bhagavad-gita is read all over the world. So we can better talk on the principles of Bhagavad-gita. Our philosophy is we present Bhagavad-gita as it is, without malinterpretation. So we want to defy everyone who is malinterpreting Bhagavad-gita. So we have to follow the authorities. And Bhagavad-gita is accepted as authority. Otherwise, why they're reading so widely all over the world Bhagavad-gita? Why not come on this term? Why you catch up so many literature? If, on this basis, there is a conference, that will be profitable, that "If you accept Bhagavad-gita as authority or one of the authorities, so you cannot misinterpret the statement in the Bhagavad-gita." But the Westerners, they are very expert in misinterpreting even their own Bible. We say that if you interpret any sastra, either Bible or Bhagavad-gita, then it is no more sastra. It is your play toy. By so-called your rascal vote, without any reason and rhythm and rhyme, you can do everything.
Pusta Krsna: They sometimes say that because Bhagavad-gita was originally in the Sanskrit language...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: ...and that because now it's been translated into the English language, there is necessary interpretation.
Prabhupada: No. Therefore we are giving the original verse, word to word meaning.
Pancadravida: Some, some man argued that...
Prabhupada: Where is the interpretation necessary?
Satsvarupa: They say we interpret even in the word to word.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Satsvarupa: They claim that we interpret even in word to word.
Prabhupada: But how do you do? Just like dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg. 1.1]. Interpret in different way this word, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre? It cannot be interpreted. And how do you dare to say that "We can interpret word to word." In the beginning, you cannot do it.
Pancadravida: They clam, then, unless you speak Sanskrit, you have to interpret Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: No, that means if you are a nonsense, you better remain silent. Don't interpret. It is better not to talk than to talk nonsense. What is the meaning of that interpretation. If you do not know Sanskrit, stop speaking. Why do you make imagination?
Pancadravida: Well, their claim is you have to read the Gita in Sanskrit in order for it to be read as it is.
Prabhupada: Now, now, in the very beginning it is said, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg. 1.1]. Now interpret. What is your interpretation, dharma-ksetre? What is your interpretation, kuru-ksetre? Come on, in the beginning. They cannot interpret anything.
Santosa: In that verse, aparyaptam bhimabhiraksitam...
Prabhupada: Eh? Eh?
Santosa: That verse, aparyaptam bhimabhiraksitam.
Prabhupada: Yes?
Santosa: They make so many interpretations of that word, aparyaptam.
Prabhupada: How they can...? Aparya... It is... The other party says that "Bhima is not so expert fighter." He was speaking to Bhismadeva that "You are so nice, expert commander. Bhima is not so expert commander. Therefore even they have got some soldiers, they'll not be properly guided." This is the real meaning. How you can interpret? What is their interpretation?
Pusta Krsna: They are simply making excuses.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta Krsna: But in the end they'll have to surrender to Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

You Can Chant Even In Moscow

Hyderabad, April 7, 1975

download  Players

Take a test

---

Prabhupada: Any culture, actually if it is culture, it is meant for the whole human society. Why do you say, "our," "your." We never say, "The Krsna consciousness is meant for Indians," or "for the Europeans." It is meant for everyone. That is our proposition. You have made this "our," "your," and bring another controversy. That is not the fact. Krsna consciousness is meant both for the Indians and the Westerners. That is the fact. When Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13], "You have to change your body," Krsna never meant that it is meant for the Indians. It is meant for everyone. Tatha dehantara-praptih. Dehantara-praptih is not meant that Indians only change and they become vanished, European. Dehantara-praptih is everyone. So try to understand this philosophy.Jayadvaita: The karmis will say that materialistic culture is also meant for the whole world.
Prabhupada: Yes. That we admit. The materialistic culture, how to eat nicely, that is meant for everyone. Everyone wants to eat nicely, not that only Europeans want, not the Indians. That is material. To sleep nicely in a good apartment, that is wanted by both the Easterners and Westerners. So there is no discrimination. Sex life, that is meant for everyone. So as material life is also meant for everyone, similarly, spiritual life is also meant for everyone.
Jayadvaita: So there are only two cultures.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayadvaita: The deva culture and asura culture.
Prabhupada: Yes. So the human form of life, one should take advantage of the spiritual culture because in other forms of life it is not possible. This is the main thing. You become Indian or American, it doesn't matter. You are human being. Take to this culture and you will be happy. This is our mission. We want to make everyone happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu: "Everyone be happy" -- with Krsna. That is our mission.
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, you said that the children in the West, in the materialistic culture, they become hippies. They'll say that at least they've had the choice, at least they were given...
Prabhupada: Again, again you are bringing the same question, Eastern-Western.
Ramesvara: Materialistic.
Prabhupada: Materialistic means that is the ultimate end of materialistic life. Because they want new pleasure, new pleasure, new pleasure, so sometimes this, sometimes that... Sometimes they think the civilized way is better; sometimes the uncivilized way is better. That's all, this way and that way. That is called punah punas ca... And then you'll take again to civilized way of... I think some of the hippies are taking now. Yes. Because the same example, stool, this side or that side, it is stool. So these materialistic persons, they are trying to change from this side to that side, but it is stool. That is the... That they do not know. They are accepting stool as something very sublime, and therefore they are trying to change the position, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Hitva anyatha rupam. This is anyatha rupam, means a living being. Being spiritual, his business is spiritual, but he has accepted material as the platform of his happiness. That is his fault. So material thing, either this side or that side, it is material. Bhoga-tyaga. So therefore he is not happy. And we are trying to give him spiritual platform for happiness. That is real happiness. But he is so much attached to the material happiness that he cannot believe that there can be any happiness beyond this range. That is his ignorance, mudha. Therefore we call them mudha, rascals. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, "When you become spiritually realized, then prasannatma, happiness." Otherwise it is not possible. Material thing, you take this side or that side -- there is no question of happiness. When you become brahma-bhutah, spiritually realized, then there is happiness, prasannatma, immediately. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu [Bg. 18.54]. That is the...
Satsvarupa: But should this be forced on people if they don't want it?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Satsvarupa: If a large section of the people don't want spiritual life, that's their...
Prabhupada: No, you cannot force. That is not possible, because he has got independence. You cannot force. You can simply give him knowledge. Therefore to distribute knowledge is the best welfare activities, not this material so-called happiness, daridra-narayana-seva and this... They have got that. That will not make them happy. If you give them knowledge, then they will be really benefited. Otherwise not.
Brahmananda: How do we give knowledge to the common masses of people?
Prabhupada: Yes, by sankirtana. By hearing, hearing, hearing -- this is a medicinal process -- the heart will be cleansed and they will take up the knowledge. Now the heart is unclean, so he cannot take up. So this is the medicine. Kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha. Harer nama harer... [Cc. Adi 17.21]. Chant Hare Krsna mantra wherever possible, and whoever will hear, he will gradually become cleansed. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And then bhava-maha-davagni... Then his material pangs will be over. This is the only medicine. Therefore chant Hare Krsna. Some way or other, let them have the chance of hearing, and then it will act as medicine. Even he does not will, you chant, you let him hear by force, and he will be cured.
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, sometimes you say only a very small percentage can take to Krsna consciousness.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: But yesterday morning in your lecture you were saying it can expand to ten thousand, million, or ten million.
Prabhupada: Yes, if you take the proper way it can be increased.
Satsvarupa: Is that just up to our preaching?
Prabhupada: Yes. That will depend on your purified preaching activities. If you again become materially victimized, then you cannot do it. If you remain on the spiritual platform, if you try, then it will increase. Anandambudhi-vardhanam. It will increase. As soon as there is any contemplation of sense gratification, then the spirit will be lost. Then instead of Christianity, it will be "Churchianity," officially going to the church, doing nothing, and gradually nobody will go.
Rupanuga: Like the Christians.
Prabhupada: Yes. Everywhere. Christians... Now who are coming here, in so many temples? Nobody is coming. They have made it a business, "Oh, the Caitanya Mahaprabhu's birthday, you come here." And somebody will come, collect some money, and then there is no business -- go away.
Jayadvaita: That requires our personal austerity.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Jayadvaita: That requires our personally being austere.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. And what is austerity? It is very simple thing. Vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitah, janayaty asu. If you continue devotional service to Lord Vasudeva, Krsna, then automatically the effect of these austerities will become, janayaty asu, very soon. Vairagyam. Austerities means detachment to the material world. That is the result of austerity. So sastra says janayaty asu vairagyam. Simply by executing devotional service to Vasudeva, that vairagya, detachment, very soon arises. Come. Chant Hare Krsna. That is very good engagement.
Pusta-krsna: It says in the Bhagavad-gita that persons who at least attempt to become Krsna conscious, they again, at least they get human form of life.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta-krsna: So what is the position of tyagis, persons who are simply trying to renounce material life? Do they... Are they considered on the devotional path, or do they have to fall down into lower species of life?
Prabhupada: No.
Pusta-krsna: Is that considered attempting to become Krsna conscious, simply to give up, say, material sense enjoyment?
Prabhupada: No, these tyagis, Mayavadis, by their process they may attempt param padam, means Brahman effulgence. But Brahman effulgence being simply, what is called, eternity. But a living entity does not want simply eternal life, but he wants ananda. Now, suppose if you are given, if God says that "You live here in this field eternally," would you like that?
Pusta-krsna: No.
Prabhupada: Why?
Jayadvaita: It's boring.
Prabhupada: If you alone live in this field eternally, that is not bliss. That is punishment. You see? So that is nature. We want ananda, blissfulness. Therefore those who are... Aruhya krcchrena param padam [SB 10.2.32]. After severe austerities they rise up to the Brahman effulgence, but on account of his original nature of ananda, he cannot remain there. He again falls down. "Oh, it was better, family life. What is this nonsense? Eternally sit up in this field? What is this? Let me go to the town and work there." You see? That is your nature. Therefore these impersonalists who want to merge, they can merge, but there they cannot remain. They will again come. These so-called sannyasis, they give up everything -- brahma satyam jagan mithya -- Vivekananda or this Karpatri. Again they come to these material activities. Somebody takes social work, somebody takes political work. But if it is mithya, if it is false, why...? [break] But they have... [break] Again come, open hospital, do political work. They cannot stick up. That is not possible.
Pusta-krsna: So they are not saved from the greatest danger of falling down...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta-krsna: ...into the lower species of life.
Prabhupada: Yes. They will fall down. Sastra says. They will fall down. The same example: if I ask you that "You sit down in this vacant land and you live eternally," you will leave this place: "No, no, I don't want this eternity. Let me go to Calcutta." (laughter) [break] ...perpetually. So that is wanted. The spiritual kingdom is Brahman effulgence, and there are Vaikuntha planets. So if you take shelter of the Vaikuntha planet, then you can stay. And if you take simply the impersonal Brahman, sky, you cannot stay there. Aruhya krcchrena patanty adhah. So without varieties, simply impersonal conception of Brahman will not make you happy.
Pusta-krsna: The descriptions of Goloka Vrndavana, that even the dust is personal... So we have experience of personal form. Even Krsna's form is personal. How is the dust of Vrndavana personal? How is it individual living entity?
Prabhupada: If you want something from this dust, you cannot get it. That is material. But in Vrndavana, even from the dust if you want any, he will deliver immediately.
Jayapataka: Would you like to see the land that we have got here, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayapataka: Just take one moment. [break]
Ramesvara: ...for enjoying, but if He's our friend...
Prabhupada: For enjoying and getting slaps also, both thing. You see? When the children enjoys, sometimes the father slaps also. Why?
Pusta-krsna: Disobedience. They do something that is harmful to themselves or to others.
Prabhupada: So you can enjoy life, material life, as the father directs. So that is devotional service. Then you will enjoy. Otherwise you will get slapped.
Trivikrama: So-called enjoyment.
Prabhupada: Yes. If you manufacture your program of enjoyment, then you will be slapped. And if you enjoy according to the direction of the father, then you'll enjoy. This is the... Krsna says, "Enjoy life. All right. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji. Live peacefully. Always think of Me. Worship Me." That we have prescribed. Come here and think of Krsna. And so that is enjoyment. So they don't want. They want liquor. They want illicit sex. They want meat. So therefore they must be slapped. Actually all this whole universe is made for your enjoyment, but enjoy it according to His direction. Then you will enjoy. That is the difference between demigod and demon. The demon wants to enjoy, manufacturing his own way of life. And the demigod, they enjoy better than the demons because under the direction of God.
Jagadisa: Why does Krsna provide the living entities with these sinful pleasures?
Prabhupada: Simple pleasures?
Jagadisa: Sinful pleasures, such as becoming intoxicated...
Prabhupada: Krsna does not provide. You create your sinful. Krsna never says that "You eat meat," but you open slaughterhouse, so you suffer.
Brahmananda: But there is a pleasure, a certain pleasure derived from these sinful activities.
Prabhupada: What is that pleasure? (laughter)
Brahmananda: Well, some people like to... They get pleasure from intoxication, they get pleasure from...
Prabhupada: Yes. And therefore they suffer aftereffect. That is ignorance, that immediately you get some sense pleasure, but the result is very bad. And that is sinful.
Ramesvara: You wrote in the Fourth Canto that if we have too much sense pleasure when we are young, then we have corresponding disease when we are older.
Prabhupada: Yes. Here material life means as soon as you violate the rules and regulation, you suffer. Therefore varnasrama-dharma is the beginning of perfection in material life. It is the beginning. Catur-varnyam maya srstam [Bg. 4.13]. God has created this. If you adopt this institution of varnasrama-dharma, then your perfection of life begins. [break]
Jayapataka: Everyone is sending their sons and daughters to the university and colleges, and they are getting degree, but they are not getting any jobs.
Prabhupada: Krsna never says that, that "You send your children to the universities and make them fools and rascals." So one who is depending on job, he's a sudra. That is not education. Education is not meant for the sudra but for the dvijas, twice-born, the brahmana, ksatriya, and vaisya. Sudras are never for education. So their education, so-called education, means creating so many sudras. Unless he gets a job his education is useless. Therefore he's a sudra. And brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya -- they will create their own means of livelihood. That is brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya. Therefore they are unhappy. They don't get job, neither they are able to work independently.
Nalini-kanta: Punishment is not the best means of reformation. Sometimes if someone is sent to jail by the government, he'll simply be thinking, "Oh, when I can get out and depose these rascals?" So if someone is punished by God, he might become more angry towards God.
Prabhupada: But that does not mean God will stop punishing. Just like these animals. The stick is there. He may be angry, but stick is required. Otherwise you cannot work with him. "Hut!" You see? The stick is there in his hand. Otherwise he cannot get work. Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Nalini-kanta: So eventually they will have to surrender.
Prabhupada: Without surrendering there is no other alternative, willingly or unwillingly. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

High-tech--High-sci Rascals

Mayapura, April 3, 1975
download  Players

Take a test

---

Pusta Krsna: They think that we are limiting God by saying that He's a person, or that He has form.Prabhupada: That is their foolishness. That is their foolishness. They are thinking God a person like me, like himself. That is foolishness. They cannot conceive that a person can become so powerful than myself. That is the defect. A person has acintya-sakti, acintya-sakti, inconceivable power. Now, just like you are person. You cut your hair. It is growing. Do you know how it is growing?
Hamsaduta: No.
Prabhupada: Then? Even it is beyond your conception, what to speak of others. But it is growing. It is... If there is any scar or if the nail is broken some way or other, it will come out. But... You cannot manufacture it by conceiving. But it is coming out. That means within you there is an inconceivable power. So if you have got, an ordinary human being, so much inconceivable power, how much God has got inconceivable power. That is God.
Hamsaduta: In Los Angeles, you called it mystic power, that every living creature has some mystic power.
Prabhupada: Yes. Every living creature.
Trivikrama: You gave the example of a lemon tree.
Prabhupada: Yes. The mystic power producing tons of citric acid.
Trivikrama: Citric acid.
Prabhupada: Yes, lemon juice. Acintya-sakti, inconceivable power. The cow, eating grass, producing milk -- this is inconceivable power. Can you produce milk from the grass? But how the cow is producing? Hmm? Answer this. You eat grass and produce milk. Give your wife grass and let her produce milk. [break] Your question is answered? Eh?
Satsvarupa: Well, it's answered, but they would say that our saying that... You said... I said, "Where did God come from?" You say that is the definition of God.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: But then they can say...
Prabhupada: Everything comes from God, but He's self-sufficient. That is God. That is the searching out God, that you search... You... Wherefrom you came? From your father. Then your father comes from his father, from his father. Go on, go on. When you reach one person -- he does not come from any father; he is self-sufficient -- then He's God. That is the definition of... If God also comes like you, from a father, then how He is God? He's like you. That is the difference.
Satsvarupa: But they say that's not logically proved.
Prabhupada: That is logical... Means you have no brain to understand. That's all. That is the distinction between God and ourself. We are caused, but He is cause of all causes. That is God. Otherwise, how you'll distinguish between you and God? You are caused, but He is not caused. He's causeless. If He becomes caused, then He becomes like you. Then how He becomes God? That is the distinction between God and ourself. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, in the beginning it is said, svarat.
Satsvarupa: Independent.
Prabhupada: Yes. Janmady asya yatah: [SB 1.1.1] "This Absolute Truth is that from which, who is the origin of everything, but He's svarat." This is the first line of Bhagavata. Janmady asya yatah anvayat itaratas ca arthesu abhijnah svarat [SB 1.1.1].
Satsvarupa: They don't like it because God doesn't come under their jurisdiction, then.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Satsvarupa: They want... They want God to be under their jurisdiction. So...
Prabhupada: That is their foolishness. You shall be under the jurisdiction of God. God is not under your jurisdiction. Then how He is God?
Ramesvara: They can't understand how it is that matter... They accept that matter always existed. They can't understand our point...
Prabhupada: Matter existed...?
Ramesvara: Always. That in the beg..., that eternally there is gas in the atmosphere, in the universe.
Prabhupada: Wherefrom the gas came?
Ramesvara: Well, they say... They believe that it always existed.
Prabhupada: Always existing.
Ramesvara: Yes, that's their idea.
Satsvarupa: Just like we say God is svarat, they say that the matter is svarat.
Prabhupada: Yes, in... Not svarat. We never find a gas is svarat, matter is svarat. They... Just this body. Has this body come out itself? Because the soul is there, the body has developed. Therefore the cause of this body is the soul. The body is not independent. And the soul goes away. Then body's no more independent. It cannot move. It becomes just like dust. "Dust thou art; dust thou be-est." [break] ...like this body is moving now, but it is not independent. It is dependent on the soul. The soul goes away; it does not move. So how it is independent? And everyone knows that because the soul takes shelter within the womb of the mother, the body develops. If the child comes out dead, it does not develop. Therefore matter is dependent on the soul, living being.
Ramesvara: Their argument is that matter is always in motion, that it is always moving.
Prabhupada: Where is moving? This is moving?
Ramesvara: Well they say the atoms, the molecules, are always in motion.
Prabhupada: No, no. First of all prove that this is moving. Then all, say all this nonsense. First of all, why it is not moving? This, this piece of earth, why it is not moving?
Visnujana: They say it's moving very slowly. You can't see it moving.
Prabhupada: Eh? Eh?
Visnujana: It's moving so slow, you can't see it.
Prabhupada: Then you become blind. Then you can see.
Devotee: But they'll say the whole world is moving, the whole cosmic manifestation is moving.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is another thing. But then how that is moving, we have to settle. But matter, as itself, does not move.
Ramesvara: 'Cause they say that within the, within the earth...
Prabhupada: That is within. You have got very good sight within. But I am a layman. I want to see that it is moving. (laughter) You have got some imaginary eyes. You can see.
Madhudvisa: They say that's advancement.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Madhudvisa: Advancement of science.
Prabhupada: Yes, to become blind is advancement, certainly. When this is... Who will say it is moving unless he's a fool? Nonsense. (laughter) Moving, that's all right. Everyone... The whole world is moving. That is another thing. But as it is, why, where it is moving?
Ramesvara: They're talking about the atomic structure, that the atoms are moving.
Prabhupada: And therefore it is moving.
Ramesvara: Within, the atoms, there is movement.
Prabhupada: Then here, today, this morning, you'll see it is lying there. Tomorrow you'll come. You'll see it is lying there. Where it is moving? What does it mean by moving?
Ramesvara: Well, they say that when atoms...
Prabhupada: They say! You say what it is. Don't say "They say." You use your intelligence. If the foolish man says something, shall I have to accept it? You use your own intelligence. "They say." If they are authority, then we have got authority. If you do not accept my authority, why shall I accept your authority? Come to argument. "They say." Why we will accept "They say"? They... Why? Are they authority?
Ramesvara: No.
Prabhupada: Then? What is the use of "They say"? You say. When you'll say "They say," I'll say "They say," (laughter) my authorities. My authorities. If you defy my authority, why shall I accept your authority? Then come to plain logic.
Madhudvisa: Well, you look at the earth, and you see it. It is stationary.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Madhudvisa: Just like we look at the building over there. From a distance, it is stationary. But if we go inside, we can see there is so much movement.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: So similarly, you may walk by this earth every day and see it is stationary, but if you analyze it underneath a microscope, you will see that there is so much movement going on within.
Prabhupada: But that is due to air. That is due to air. Just like we can see so many atoms are moving in the hole from the wall, but that is due to air. So this is also moving. The whole thing is moving by air.
Visnujana: But not of itself.
Prabhupada: Not automatically.
Visnujana: Not of itself.
Prabhupada: Not automatically. You cannot say automatically. No, air is moving. Just like the, in the air, the cloud is moving. The cloud is not moving. The air, moving, and the cloud moving.
Trivikrama: Anyway, the basic proposition is that they, they don't have, they don't want to accept God, so they don't have to be accountable for their activities.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Trivikrama: So that they don't have to be accountable for their activities.
Prabhupada: Certainly. And they are being accountable. If they become so dull-headed, then God's power will make him a tree: "Stand here. Stand up here for three thousand years. That's all. You are so dull-headed that you have no sense, so become a tree so that even if you are cut, you cannot protest. You have no sense, senses." That is the punishment. "If you don't eat prasadam, then eat stool." This is the arrangement. So they are being punished. But they are so dull-headed, they cannot understand.
Pusta Krsna: With their science, they've been able to build so many buildings and roads and bridges and so many things which they consider wonderful.
Prabhupada: And what you'll do with the buildings? You'll be kicked out. Your building will remain there. Your spoiling labor will remain there, but you will be kicked out. You cannot live there. Who is managing these affairs? "So you have constructed a building? All right, I kick you out. Get out!" Then what is the purpose of building? If you know that "I am constructing this high building, and tomorrow somebody will kick me out," then what is the use? Have you made it insured that you'll not be kicked out?
Visnujana: No.
Prabhupada: Then it is useless waste of time.
Madhudvisa: You can enjoy it while you are here, though.
Prabhupada: That's all right. That is called foolishness, that "I am going to be kicked out tomorrow, and let me enjoy tonight." That's all. That is foolishness.
Madhudvisa: This is their only recourse 'cause they don't believe in anything after this life.
Prabhupada: Yes. They... That... "Don't believe" means, don't take knowledge means, foolishness. Yes. Just like you are walking. You don't believe that you are going to the temple, but simply walking. Is that very intelligent? We are going. We are going to some place. We know that. That is intelligent. And if I ask you, "Why you are walking?" "That I do not know." Is that very intelligent man?
Satsvarupa: Like animal.
Prabhupada: Animal, that's all. Animal also knows that "I'll have to go there." Without any aim, without any purpose, if they are working, they are fool number one, mudhah.
Pusta Krsna: Sometimes the argument is put forward that in places where's there is not sufficient food and shelter and things like this, these problems should be solved first before the problem of spiritual life.
Prabhupada: Yes. Why don't you solve? There are so many land. Come here and grow food. Grow fruit. That is... That is the desire of Krsna. Annad bhavanti bhutani [Bg. 3.14]. Produce food and eat in sufficiently, be strong, and chant Hare Krsna. That is our philosophy. Why you are producing bolts and nuts, tire and tubes? Eat. Rascal. They do not know that first of all you must eat. No, everyone is engaged in industry. Why? Krsna does not say that "Take to industry." Krsna says, "Produce foodstuff." Annad bhavanti bhutani. If you produce foodstuff, then both your animals, yourself, will be happy, becoming strong. Why do they manufacture other things? All these people are engaged in manufacturing, and nobody is manu..., er, growing food. Therefore the price of food grain is rising. Suppose I am growing food, and you are not growing, so you have to purchase from me. I'll ask, "You have to pay this price." And you have to pay. And if you grow your own food, there is no such question. The simple economic problem, solution, this rascal cannot take. If you grow your own food, I grow my own, then who is going to purchase? The price will be reduced automatically. If you have no customer, then you have to reduce your price. But they do not understand even the simple thing that "God has given us enough land to produce food grain, and we must eat." They do not understand this. And still, they are scientist, philosopher, politician. Just see. That is the difficulty. All rascals, fools, they are leading the whole human society.
Ramesvara: They're too busy making money to grow their own food.
Prabhupada: "So then pay more money. Come on. You have earned money and give me. I shall give you food. And whatever I shall ask, you have to pay." This simple thing, more demand-price is more. Then why do you gripe, "Oh, everything is price growing, price growing." Why it will not? If I have got food, and you have to purchase, and I have got so many customers, I must increase. That is economic theory: more demand -- the price is increased. And then you say, "There are so many problems. We have to solve first." But you have created this problem, rascal. And you shall must suffer. You have infected some disease. Now you must suffer. It is like say, karanam guna-sango 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. The reason is that you have infected some quality of the modes of nature and you must suffer for that. How you can deny it? If you have infected some disease like cholera, smallpox, and when you are suffering, how you can blaim? You have infected. You must suffer. Nature's law is so strict that as soon as you infect a particular type of quality of nature -- there are so many -- you must suffer for that, or so-called enjoy. There are two things, suffer and enjoy. So you must have to undergo the process. This is... Nature's process is so nice. As soon as you do something, there is reaction and you are bound up. Yajnarthe karma anyatra loko 'yam karma bandhanah [Bg. 3.9]. Bandhanah means bound up. Immediately you become bound up. And still, you are thinking, "Independent." The nature's law is so strict.
Pusta Krsna: But the argument is that "The cities are there, and now what can we do?"
Prabhupada: Hm ?
Pusta Krsna: The cities are already there. There are millions of people in the cities...
Prabhupada: Therefore we are offering this place. Come here. Why do you not come here and live with us? Then this is... The Krsna consciousness movement is... This is the movement, that you come here, live with us, and produce your food, produce your milk, be happy, healthy, and chant Hare Krsna. This is our movement. Therefore we are creating New Vrindaban and farm, and we are trying to purchase... This is our movement, that we give you sufficient food, shelter, health, philosophy, religion, character, everything, purity. Come here. Why don't you come? They come here on the weekdays, and then fly away, go away. You see? We are giving such nice room, but they will not live here. They will go to the hubble-bubble of the city. They like to come here. Therefore they spend so much money for gas and come here. But because they are not accustomed, they go back again. Return ticket. From hell to heaven, and again hell (laughter) Return ticket-coming back to hell again, not going back to God.
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, you said there was a man who read your Easy Journey, and he was very enthusiastic that he could go to other planets.
Prabhupada: But you must come back. He said, "Oh, I am not coming back again?" "No." "No, no, then I don't want." Yes, that is the psychology. The Russians, when some aeronaut was flying high in the sky, he was seeing: "Where is my Moscow?" Yes, it was published. That is maya. The... Another incidence happenned that when the jet was in danger, he was thinking of "How to come back home?" This is maya. Cannot go. Even though you like to go, still, it will attract you again, back to hell. Otherwise, how people are living in -- what is called? That place where is ice?
Hamsaduta: Alaska.
Brahmananda: Greenland.
Jagadisa: North Pole?
Prabhupada: What is the name of those people?
Devotees: Eskimos.
Prabhupada: Eskimos. Is that very good living? Just see. They won't come here. This is maya. This is maya. Avaranatmika-sakti. They, he's living in hell but maya is covering: "No, it is not hell; it is heaven." This is maya. Similarly all of us, we are living in this universe, material universe. We are thinking "This is all good. What is the use of God and going back to home, back to Godhead?" They do not take it very seriously. Although we give all information that "You'll haven't, you haven't got to work there. You'll get everything. Your life is eternal and blissful, and full of knowledge," they are not interested. Plugged.
Pusta Krsna: Plugged.
Prabhupada: Yes. Plugged ear, er, ears, yes. "You go on speaking, but I have plugged my ear." (laughter)
Trivikrama: "Chant, chant, chant."
Prabhupada: Yes. "Can't, can't, can't." That's it. (laughter) This is going on. The best intelligence is that "We are hearing so much about the spiritual world; there is so much happiness. Why not try one life? Like cats and dogs, I have tried so many lives. Why not sacrifice one life? Where is the loss there?" But no, they are so many, fallen, they'll not accept.
Satsvarupa: One man wrote a book about our movement, Hare Krsna, and he said one tragedy of this movement is that if a young boy or girl takes to this movement and later decides to try the material world again, he will have ruined his chances for a career, (laughter) and it'll be too late for him.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Trivikrama: That's a fact.
Pusta Krsna: Nehabhikrama-naso 'sti... [Bg. 2.40].
Prabhupada: Therefore Krsna says, manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many millions of people, one may become interested about what is the perfection of life." They do not want. "And out of such millions of persons," yatatam api siddhanam [Bg. 7.3], "who was trying for perfection of life, out of many millions of them, one can understand Me, Krsna." maya is so strong. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita. Krsna consciousness is not for ordinary person. Most fortunate, bhagyavan jiva... Guru-krsna krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. All these living entities, wandering throughout the universe... Ei rupe brahmanda bhramite. If one gets the chance of guru and Krsna, then he can understand. And if still one argues, then he's again misfortunate. Therefore Krsna demands, "You rascal, don't argue! Surrender!" Sarva-dharman parityaja mam... That is the way. He commands.
Devotee: Actually, you were asking if there were any examples of explosions happenning without material cause, and I was just wondering if you could explain how volcanoes explode.
Prabhupada: Hm? That is God's desire, nature's way. Nature is behind this, and behind nature...
Devotee: Through the demigods?
Prabhupada: No. Nature, the material nature, and... Just like in... Sometimes at night you have got, what is called, pollution, night pollution?
Trivikrama: Yes.
Prabhupada: So why it is happenning? Why it is happenning? Why this eruption comes? Can you explain?
Devotee: I don't know what night pollution is.
Trivikrama: Passing semina in sleep.
Devotee: Oh.
Prabhupada: Why it does happen? What is your explanation? Nobody can explain?
Ramesvara: Desire in the heart, subtle desire.
Pusta Krsna: It is nature, just...
Prabhupada: No, no, nature... The body is made of material nature, and the eruption is coming. Why it is coming? Does it come in the dead body?
Devotee: No.
Prabhupada: Then? What is the cause?
Paramahamsa: The soul, living entity.
Prabhupada: Because the soul is there. Similarly, the Supersoul is there, and He's arranging everything. The volcano's eruption does not take automatically. When it is desired by Krsna, then it takes place. Mayadhyaksena [Bg. 9.10]. Why don't you read Bhagavad-gita. "Under My superintendence." When He knows that "Now this eruption is required," immediately there is... Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. He has got so many potencies. One potency works. That's all. Because the living soul is there, therefore the seminal discharge takes place. Similarly, because the supreme living is there, therefore all these things are happenning. Where is the difficulty to understand? Krsna says, vistabhyaham idam krtsnam ekamsena sthito jagat: [Bg. 10.42] "The whole worldly affair is going on because I am there." Vistabhya: "I have entered into it." Don't you read in the Bhagavad-gita? Then? And we are reading that portion, how Karanavasayi Visnu enters in the each universe. He's... Then He expands Himself as Ksirodakasayi Visnu. We are explaining that. Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita, vistabhya. Vistabhya means entering.
Brahmananda: You have written that Maha-Visnu has some attraction to the material world?
Prabhupada: No, He has no attraction. You have got attraction. Therefore He creates. Maha-Visnu knows, or Krsna knows that "These rascals will have attraction for this material... All right, let Me arrange." He has no attraction. Why He'll have attraction?
Brahmananda: So one of the devotees said they read that in one of the books.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Satsvarupa: There is one purport that says that Krsna is different than Visnu because He's not, He has nothing to do with the material world.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: But Maha-Visnu, He has some attraction, or...?
Prabhupada: No attraction. He is duty... He is, what is called, duty-bound, assigned by Krsna, or He's not ordered. Krsna expands in Maha-Visnu and takes charge of this affair.
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Ramesvara: Before I was asking about the scientific theory that the atoms are always moving, and you said that the earth is not moving now.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Ramesvara: You said that the... You pointed to a chunk and said that it is not moving. But they're...
Prabhupada: But if you..., then you are also moving. Everything is moving because you are on the earth. When the train moves, everything moves. But how it moves, train? That you have to search out. Train is not automatically moving. Some power, engine, is moving it. That is blind vision, that "Train is moving." How the train is moving? You have to see. That is childish. Train is not moving. The engine is moving the train. And how the engine is moving? The coal, fire, is moving. Then wherefrom the coal come? In this way, you have to search out. You'll find, ultimately, the supreme cause is Krsna. Nothing is moving without Krsna's indication. That is the explanation,
Mayadhyaksena: [Bg. 9.10] "Under My superintendence..." When Krsna desires, this big, big chunk will move in the air. Recently, Madhudvisa Maharaja said, the buses were flying in the sky.
Brahmananda: Buses?
Prabhupada: Yes. In Darwin.
Devotees: Oh, in that, that cyclone, cyclone...
Prabhupada: Yes. And whole city smashed.
Ramesvara: They don't know how to search beyond the microscopic level, microscope level. They think that the atoms have their own energy. They don't know the process of searching...
Prabhupada: The energy is: Krsna is there. Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. The asura's business is to avoid Krsna. That is their business. And our business is to establish everywhere Krsna. That is the difference between them and ourself.
Ramesvara: There is one theory that even the atoms have intelligence because the way they combine together to form larger molecules...
Prabhupada: That means that is Krsna's intelligence. They do not see Krsna. Try to understand the whole philosophy because you have to preach and you have to confront so many atheist rascals.
Pusta Krsna: These scientists need gurus.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Pusta Krsna: The scientists need guru.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: They never even think of these things.
Prabhupada: When they are captured and cornered, they say, "Yes, we are trying. In future we shall do that." Post-dated check. "You take this check. In future it will be paid." Who will accept that check?
Ramesvara: To that, they always say that in the past, man laughed at some scientific theories, and later they were proven...
Prabhupada: It is not scientific. It is all rascaldom. What you are giving, that is not science, that is rascaldom. Why shall I accept it is scientific? Because you have no full knowledge. What you are giving, it is simply rascaldom. Jaya. (Bengali)
Indian: (Bengali)
Nalini-kanta: So we say that one should live very simply, produce his own food, and chant.
Prabhupada: Yes. Then avoid all problems.
Nalini-kanta: So if we are given charge of the society, we should dismantle all this industry, all these cities...?
Prabhupada: No. We're not going to. But we can manage how to do it. First of all give me. I'll say how to manage. (laughter) We'll not create any problem. We do not wish to destroy anything.
Nalini-kanta: Just like we have big printing press and incense factory.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Nalini-kanta: But it is all managed nicely.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...mediately manage. "Stop all these worker illicit sex, intoxication, and chant Hare Krsna." The whole atmosphere will change. The production will be increased. There will be no dissatisfaction among the worker and the capitalists. Immediately everything will be solved. Now the competition is going on that the capitalist is exacting as much money from their labor, and he is spending it for wine and women, and the worker is seeing that "Our money, he's spending. Why not ourself? So let us form a communist party. Let us fight." This is going on. But they do not know how to spend money, sudras. When a sudra gets money, he'll spend for wine and women. That's all. He does not know that it should be spent for Krsna consciousness.
Nalini-kanta: So intoxication, illicit sex, we will make that illegal.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is illegal, but because they are rogues and rascals, they are doing all these illegal things. And because it is democracy, when the majority are acting illegally, it becomes legal. This is democracy. They cannot avoid it. They want to do the same thing by voting "There is no God." So there is no God. Bas. Finish. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.