Perfect Disciple's Imperfection

Hyderabad, April 7, 1975

download  Players

Take a test

---

Jayadvaita: Just like sometimes we'll hear our men. They'll be chanting... Like yesterday I heard that someone was chanting, "Nitai-Gaura, Nitai-Gaura, Nitai-Nitai-Gaura." Like that, I'll hear different mantras. Someone is chanting: "Radhe, Radhe, Radhe, Radhe," like that, at kirtana.Prabhupada: Well, that is not done by the acaryas. But there is no harm chanting "Radhe." But sometimes it is degraded to make something new, invention. Therefore better to stick to "Hare Krsna" and to "Sri-Krsna Caitanya Prabhupada-Nityananda." Otherwise... Just like the sahajiyas, they have invented: "Nitai-Gaura Radhe Syama, Hare Krsna Hare Rama." These things will come gradually. But they are not approved. They are called chara kirtana (?), means "concocted kirtana." But there is no harm chanting "Radhe, Nitai-Gaura." So better stick to this Panca-tattva, and maha-mantra. Just like "Nitai Gaura Radhe Syama, Hare Krsna Hare Rama." There is "Nitai-Gaura, Radhe Syama," but it is not approved. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the mahajana. In Caitanya-caritamrta you'll find "Sri-Krsna-Caitanya Prabhu-Nityananda, Sri-Advaita Gadadhara...," never "Nitai Gaura, Radhe Syama." So why should we do that?
Jayapataka: The concocter of the "Nitai Gaura Radhe Syama," previously he was a follower of Bhaktisiddhanta, but then he was rejected, and then he started his own camp.
Prabhupada: No, yes, he was meeting Bhaktivinoda Thakura. So... What is called? Carana dasa Babaji.
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, sometimes during arati, many bona fide bhajanas are sung, but not much Hare Krsna. Is that not a good tendency, that maybe just two or three minutes of Hare Krsna mantra and many other bhajanas?
Prabhupada: No. We should stick to Hare Krsna. Sri-Krsna-Caitanya Prabhu-Nityananda, jiva jago jiva jago..., these are authorized. But Hare Krsna is the maha-mantra. What is sung by mahajana, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Narottama dasa Thakura, that can be sung. [break]
Jayapataka: ...you say is back to Godhead. But when one is situated in pure, transcendental love of Krsna, then that's, then wherever he may be, that's back to Godhead. Isn't it?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayapataka: So then we should desire not to go back to Vaikuntha but to go back to..., to be situated in our pure service to Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. Pure devotee does not aspire anything, simply to be engaged in loving service of the Lord, wherever it may be. It doesn't matter. [break]
Jayadvaita: ...they know everything and they're perfect in everything. But sometimes, from our material viewpoint, we see some discrepancies. Just like we think that...
Prabhupada: Because material viewpoint. The viewpoint is wrong; therefore you find discrepancies.
Jayadvaita: So we should think that we have the defect.
Prabhupada: Yes. Acarya is explained, bhakti-samsanah: "One who's preaching the cult of devotional service, he's acarya." Then why should you find any discrepancy?
Jayadvaita: Because we see... For instance, sometimes the acarya may seem to forget something or not to know something, so from our point of view, if someone has forgotten, that is...
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Then...
Jayadvaita: ...an imperfection.
Prabhupada: That is not the... Then you do not understand. Acarya is not God, omniscient. He is servant of God. His business is to preach bhakti cult. That is acarya.
Jayadvaita: And that is the perfection.
Prabhupada: That is the perfection. Hare Krsna.
Jayadvaita: So we have a misunderstanding about what perfection is?
Prabhupada: Yes. Perfection is here, how he is preaching bhakti cult. That's all.
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, there's also a question of reciprocation. You have so many disciples, thousands, and one devotee was asking me yesterday, "How does... I want to please Srila Prabhupada. How does he know my progress and my service because I'm..., when I'm so far away from him and if I don't write him?"
Prabhupada: So his representatives are there, the president, the GBC. They will see.
Madhavananda: The representatives.
Jayadvaita: The representative may be there, but what is my personal relationship?
Prabhupada: Hm? To obey your spiritual master. Whatever he has said, you follow strictly. Follow the regulative principles. Chant sixteen rounds. That's all.
Devotee (1): Prabhupada, when Srila Vyasadeva was lamenting after compiling so many Vedic literatures before compiling Srimad Bhagavatam, he said to his spiritual master, Narada Muni, that "You please enter within me and find out my deficiency. You are as good as the all-pervading Supersoul."
Prabhupada: That is always the position of spiritual master, to find out the deficiency in the character of his disciple.
Devotee (1): He said that "You are as good as the all-pervading Supersoul."
Prabhupada: Yes. He... He pointed out the deficiency, that "You have not described so elaborately about the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You have touched only the social, religious, political point of views." That was his deficiency. So a disciple is always in deficiency before his spiritual master. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, guru more murkha dekhi karila sasana [Cc. Adi 7.71]. "My spiritual master saw Me a fool number one. Therefore he has chastised Me." So disciple should be always ready to be chastised. He should not think that he has become perfect. That is perfection. So long he thinks that he is not perfect-he's to be chastised -- then he's perfect. And as soon as he thinks that he has become perfect, he's nonsense immediately, nonsense number one. [Break] ...always to be chastised by the spiritual master for perfection. And if he thinks that now he has become perfect, then he's a foolish. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, guru more murkha dekhi. "My spiritual master saw Me a fool number one." Was He fool number one? He's God Himself. But that is the position. He should remain always a fool number one, ready to be chastised. Then he's perfect. In the moral instruction, Canakya Pandita gives this instruction, that lalane bahavo dosas tadane bahavo gunah: "If you chastise your son or disciple, he'll improve, and if you say, 'Oh, you are all right,' then he'll degrade." Tasmat putram ca sisyam ca tadayet na tu lalayet: "Therefore you always chastise your son and disciple. Never flat..." What is called?
Jayadvaita: Flatter.
Prabhupada: No.
Satsvarupa: Prabhupada, in one purport in the Bhagavad-gita, you write that a disciple of a bona fide spiritual master is supposed to know everything.
Prabhupada: Yes, if he follows the spiritual master.
Satsvarupa: But how could he know...? What does that mean, "everything"?
Prabhupada: Everything means whatever his guru knows, he should know, that much. Not like God, everything. Within his limit, that's all. If he tries to understand whatever his guru has said, that much is "everything." Otherwise, "everything" does not mean that we know everything, like God, like Krsna. That is not possible. If he regularly chants and follow the regulative principles, follows the orders of guru, then he knows everything. That's all. Not very much... Knows everything, then what is the use of reading books when he knows everything? [break] ...everything -- except Krsna. Aham... Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto [Bg. 15.15]. He knows past, present, future, everything. You cannot expect anyone to know like Krsna, everything.
Jayadvaita: Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita that one who knows Him knows everything.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because if he knows that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he knows everything. That's all. Not that he should know as Krsna. If he... Yasmin vijnate sarvam eva vijnatam... If he accepts Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, then he knows everything. That is finish.
Jayadvaita: That knowledge itself is...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayadvaita: That knowledge itself is complete.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: There may be material things he doesn't know, but they're useless.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Satsvarupa: If there's some material information that such a person doesn't know, that's not really knowledge anyway.
Prabhupada: I did not follow.
Satsvarupa: If he doesn't know how many people live in...
Jayadvaita: Just like Gaura-kisora could not write. So it appeared that he did not, there was something that he did not know, although he knew Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. He knows everything. Otherwise how Bhaktisiddhanta accepted him as guru? He knows Krsna. That's all.
Nalini-kanta: Whatever the spiritual master says, that is also perfect?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because he says nothing concocted. Whatever he says, he says from sastra, and guru.
Devotee (2): Srila Prabhupada, is there any instance when you were chastised by your spiritual master?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Devotee (2): Is there any instance when you were chastised by your spiritual master?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
Devotee (2): Can you tell us?
Prabhupada: I remember the moment was very valuable. Yes.
Devotee (2): Can you tell us the story?
Prabhupada: Yes. I think I have said that.
Satsvarupa: When you were speaking to one man...
Prabhupada: Yes. He became very angry and chastised me.
Jagajivana: Srila Prabhupada, was this during a lecture by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jagajivana: Was this during a lecture?
Prabhupada: Yes. I was not... One of my old brother, he, he wanted to speak something. So I leaned my... I immediately became... (laughter) So he chastised him more than me.
Devotee (2): When Lord Caitanya chastised someone more than Advaita Acarya, Advaita felt that He had been neglected 'cause he had not received a greater chastisement.
Prabhupada: He wanted to be chastised, so Caitanya fulfilled His desire. (end)
Morning Walk -- April 9, 1975, Mayapur
750409mw.may
Morning Walk
 --
April 9, 1975, Mayapur
Prabhupada: ...think that I am going to die very soon. You know that Romaharsana?
Satsvarupa: Romaharsana?
Prabhupada: Eh? Romaharsana?
Satsvarupa: Who Balarama killed?
Prabhupada: No, another. Lomarsa, Lomarsa Muni. He would die when all the hairs on the body will fall down. And each hair will fall down after the death of one Brahma. So he was chanting on the sea, and Narada Muni was passing: "Why don't you make a cottage?" "How long I shall live? What is the use of cottage?" He's also thinking: "I'll die."
Satsvarupa: There's also the story of that Maharaja Khatvanga, who found out that he only had a minute to live. What did he do, that he...? You say that he surrendered at once.
Prabhupada: He surrendered to Krsna. That's all. Hmmm. Go this...
Devotee: Prabhupada, if we, if we increase our devotional activities, then we automatically become satisfied, and then detached from material life.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.

You Can Chant Even In Moscow

Hyderabad, April 7, 1975

download  Players

Take a test

---

Prabhupada: Any culture, actually if it is culture, it is meant for the whole human society. Why do you say, "our," "your." We never say, "The Krsna consciousness is meant for Indians," or "for the Europeans." It is meant for everyone. That is our proposition. You have made this "our," "your," and bring another controversy. That is not the fact. Krsna consciousness is meant both for the Indians and the Westerners. That is the fact. When Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13], "You have to change your body," Krsna never meant that it is meant for the Indians. It is meant for everyone. Tatha dehantara-praptih. Dehantara-praptih is not meant that Indians only change and they become vanished, European. Dehantara-praptih is everyone. So try to understand this philosophy.Jayadvaita: The karmis will say that materialistic culture is also meant for the whole world.
Prabhupada: Yes. That we admit. The materialistic culture, how to eat nicely, that is meant for everyone. Everyone wants to eat nicely, not that only Europeans want, not the Indians. That is material. To sleep nicely in a good apartment, that is wanted by both the Easterners and Westerners. So there is no discrimination. Sex life, that is meant for everyone. So as material life is also meant for everyone, similarly, spiritual life is also meant for everyone.
Jayadvaita: So there are only two cultures.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayadvaita: The deva culture and asura culture.
Prabhupada: Yes. So the human form of life, one should take advantage of the spiritual culture because in other forms of life it is not possible. This is the main thing. You become Indian or American, it doesn't matter. You are human being. Take to this culture and you will be happy. This is our mission. We want to make everyone happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu: "Everyone be happy" -- with Krsna. That is our mission.
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, you said that the children in the West, in the materialistic culture, they become hippies. They'll say that at least they've had the choice, at least they were given...
Prabhupada: Again, again you are bringing the same question, Eastern-Western.
Ramesvara: Materialistic.
Prabhupada: Materialistic means that is the ultimate end of materialistic life. Because they want new pleasure, new pleasure, new pleasure, so sometimes this, sometimes that... Sometimes they think the civilized way is better; sometimes the uncivilized way is better. That's all, this way and that way. That is called punah punas ca... And then you'll take again to civilized way of... I think some of the hippies are taking now. Yes. Because the same example, stool, this side or that side, it is stool. So these materialistic persons, they are trying to change from this side to that side, but it is stool. That is the... That they do not know. They are accepting stool as something very sublime, and therefore they are trying to change the position, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Hitva anyatha rupam. This is anyatha rupam, means a living being. Being spiritual, his business is spiritual, but he has accepted material as the platform of his happiness. That is his fault. So material thing, either this side or that side, it is material. Bhoga-tyaga. So therefore he is not happy. And we are trying to give him spiritual platform for happiness. That is real happiness. But he is so much attached to the material happiness that he cannot believe that there can be any happiness beyond this range. That is his ignorance, mudha. Therefore we call them mudha, rascals. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, "When you become spiritually realized, then prasannatma, happiness." Otherwise it is not possible. Material thing, you take this side or that side -- there is no question of happiness. When you become brahma-bhutah, spiritually realized, then there is happiness, prasannatma, immediately. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu [Bg. 18.54]. That is the...
Satsvarupa: But should this be forced on people if they don't want it?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Satsvarupa: If a large section of the people don't want spiritual life, that's their...
Prabhupada: No, you cannot force. That is not possible, because he has got independence. You cannot force. You can simply give him knowledge. Therefore to distribute knowledge is the best welfare activities, not this material so-called happiness, daridra-narayana-seva and this... They have got that. That will not make them happy. If you give them knowledge, then they will be really benefited. Otherwise not.
Brahmananda: How do we give knowledge to the common masses of people?
Prabhupada: Yes, by sankirtana. By hearing, hearing, hearing -- this is a medicinal process -- the heart will be cleansed and they will take up the knowledge. Now the heart is unclean, so he cannot take up. So this is the medicine. Kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha. Harer nama harer... [Cc. Adi 17.21]. Chant Hare Krsna mantra wherever possible, and whoever will hear, he will gradually become cleansed. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And then bhava-maha-davagni... Then his material pangs will be over. This is the only medicine. Therefore chant Hare Krsna. Some way or other, let them have the chance of hearing, and then it will act as medicine. Even he does not will, you chant, you let him hear by force, and he will be cured.
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, sometimes you say only a very small percentage can take to Krsna consciousness.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: But yesterday morning in your lecture you were saying it can expand to ten thousand, million, or ten million.
Prabhupada: Yes, if you take the proper way it can be increased.
Satsvarupa: Is that just up to our preaching?
Prabhupada: Yes. That will depend on your purified preaching activities. If you again become materially victimized, then you cannot do it. If you remain on the spiritual platform, if you try, then it will increase. Anandambudhi-vardhanam. It will increase. As soon as there is any contemplation of sense gratification, then the spirit will be lost. Then instead of Christianity, it will be "Churchianity," officially going to the church, doing nothing, and gradually nobody will go.
Rupanuga: Like the Christians.
Prabhupada: Yes. Everywhere. Christians... Now who are coming here, in so many temples? Nobody is coming. They have made it a business, "Oh, the Caitanya Mahaprabhu's birthday, you come here." And somebody will come, collect some money, and then there is no business -- go away.
Jayadvaita: That requires our personal austerity.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Jayadvaita: That requires our personally being austere.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. And what is austerity? It is very simple thing. Vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitah, janayaty asu. If you continue devotional service to Lord Vasudeva, Krsna, then automatically the effect of these austerities will become, janayaty asu, very soon. Vairagyam. Austerities means detachment to the material world. That is the result of austerity. So sastra says janayaty asu vairagyam. Simply by executing devotional service to Vasudeva, that vairagya, detachment, very soon arises. Come. Chant Hare Krsna. That is very good engagement.
Pusta-krsna: It says in the Bhagavad-gita that persons who at least attempt to become Krsna conscious, they again, at least they get human form of life.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta-krsna: So what is the position of tyagis, persons who are simply trying to renounce material life? Do they... Are they considered on the devotional path, or do they have to fall down into lower species of life?
Prabhupada: No.
Pusta-krsna: Is that considered attempting to become Krsna conscious, simply to give up, say, material sense enjoyment?
Prabhupada: No, these tyagis, Mayavadis, by their process they may attempt param padam, means Brahman effulgence. But Brahman effulgence being simply, what is called, eternity. But a living entity does not want simply eternal life, but he wants ananda. Now, suppose if you are given, if God says that "You live here in this field eternally," would you like that?
Pusta-krsna: No.
Prabhupada: Why?
Jayadvaita: It's boring.
Prabhupada: If you alone live in this field eternally, that is not bliss. That is punishment. You see? So that is nature. We want ananda, blissfulness. Therefore those who are... Aruhya krcchrena param padam [SB 10.2.32]. After severe austerities they rise up to the Brahman effulgence, but on account of his original nature of ananda, he cannot remain there. He again falls down. "Oh, it was better, family life. What is this nonsense? Eternally sit up in this field? What is this? Let me go to the town and work there." You see? That is your nature. Therefore these impersonalists who want to merge, they can merge, but there they cannot remain. They will again come. These so-called sannyasis, they give up everything -- brahma satyam jagan mithya -- Vivekananda or this Karpatri. Again they come to these material activities. Somebody takes social work, somebody takes political work. But if it is mithya, if it is false, why...? [break] But they have... [break] Again come, open hospital, do political work. They cannot stick up. That is not possible.
Pusta-krsna: So they are not saved from the greatest danger of falling down...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta-krsna: ...into the lower species of life.
Prabhupada: Yes. They will fall down. Sastra says. They will fall down. The same example: if I ask you that "You sit down in this vacant land and you live eternally," you will leave this place: "No, no, I don't want this eternity. Let me go to Calcutta." (laughter) [break] ...perpetually. So that is wanted. The spiritual kingdom is Brahman effulgence, and there are Vaikuntha planets. So if you take shelter of the Vaikuntha planet, then you can stay. And if you take simply the impersonal Brahman, sky, you cannot stay there. Aruhya krcchrena patanty adhah. So without varieties, simply impersonal conception of Brahman will not make you happy.
Pusta-krsna: The descriptions of Goloka Vrndavana, that even the dust is personal... So we have experience of personal form. Even Krsna's form is personal. How is the dust of Vrndavana personal? How is it individual living entity?
Prabhupada: If you want something from this dust, you cannot get it. That is material. But in Vrndavana, even from the dust if you want any, he will deliver immediately.
Jayapataka: Would you like to see the land that we have got here, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayapataka: Just take one moment. [break]
Ramesvara: ...for enjoying, but if He's our friend...
Prabhupada: For enjoying and getting slaps also, both thing. You see? When the children enjoys, sometimes the father slaps also. Why?
Pusta-krsna: Disobedience. They do something that is harmful to themselves or to others.
Prabhupada: So you can enjoy life, material life, as the father directs. So that is devotional service. Then you will enjoy. Otherwise you will get slapped.
Trivikrama: So-called enjoyment.
Prabhupada: Yes. If you manufacture your program of enjoyment, then you will be slapped. And if you enjoy according to the direction of the father, then you'll enjoy. This is the... Krsna says, "Enjoy life. All right. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji. Live peacefully. Always think of Me. Worship Me." That we have prescribed. Come here and think of Krsna. And so that is enjoyment. So they don't want. They want liquor. They want illicit sex. They want meat. So therefore they must be slapped. Actually all this whole universe is made for your enjoyment, but enjoy it according to His direction. Then you will enjoy. That is the difference between demigod and demon. The demon wants to enjoy, manufacturing his own way of life. And the demigod, they enjoy better than the demons because under the direction of God.
Jagadisa: Why does Krsna provide the living entities with these sinful pleasures?
Prabhupada: Simple pleasures?
Jagadisa: Sinful pleasures, such as becoming intoxicated...
Prabhupada: Krsna does not provide. You create your sinful. Krsna never says that "You eat meat," but you open slaughterhouse, so you suffer.
Brahmananda: But there is a pleasure, a certain pleasure derived from these sinful activities.
Prabhupada: What is that pleasure? (laughter)
Brahmananda: Well, some people like to... They get pleasure from intoxication, they get pleasure from...
Prabhupada: Yes. And therefore they suffer aftereffect. That is ignorance, that immediately you get some sense pleasure, but the result is very bad. And that is sinful.
Ramesvara: You wrote in the Fourth Canto that if we have too much sense pleasure when we are young, then we have corresponding disease when we are older.
Prabhupada: Yes. Here material life means as soon as you violate the rules and regulation, you suffer. Therefore varnasrama-dharma is the beginning of perfection in material life. It is the beginning. Catur-varnyam maya srstam [Bg. 4.13]. God has created this. If you adopt this institution of varnasrama-dharma, then your perfection of life begins. [break]
Jayapataka: Everyone is sending their sons and daughters to the university and colleges, and they are getting degree, but they are not getting any jobs.
Prabhupada: Krsna never says that, that "You send your children to the universities and make them fools and rascals." So one who is depending on job, he's a sudra. That is not education. Education is not meant for the sudra but for the dvijas, twice-born, the brahmana, ksatriya, and vaisya. Sudras are never for education. So their education, so-called education, means creating so many sudras. Unless he gets a job his education is useless. Therefore he's a sudra. And brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya -- they will create their own means of livelihood. That is brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya. Therefore they are unhappy. They don't get job, neither they are able to work independently.
Nalini-kanta: Punishment is not the best means of reformation. Sometimes if someone is sent to jail by the government, he'll simply be thinking, "Oh, when I can get out and depose these rascals?" So if someone is punished by God, he might become more angry towards God.
Prabhupada: But that does not mean God will stop punishing. Just like these animals. The stick is there. He may be angry, but stick is required. Otherwise you cannot work with him. "Hut!" You see? The stick is there in his hand. Otherwise he cannot get work. Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Nalini-kanta: So eventually they will have to surrender.
Prabhupada: Without surrendering there is no other alternative, willingly or unwillingly. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur

HOME

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International.